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platypus63
Feb 28, 2006, 11:37 PM
Hey folks,

This week I will be buying my first SLR, it's between a Canon Digital Rebel and a Nikon D50. I'm leaning more towards the Nikon, because I like it's body better, and there is some other Nikon gear laying over my house from other family members. Do you guys know if the Nikon will be upgraded anytime soon? And most importantly, do you guys suggest I get extended warranty from the store I buy it from? I was thinking of Newegg, since they have a kit for $630.

Thanks!
-platypus



bousozoku
Mar 1, 2006, 12:04 AM
Buy the Nikon kit but you could also look at Adorama.com, JandR.com, and Amazon.com as well.

Orlando Furioso
Mar 1, 2006, 12:04 AM
Hello platypus63, welcome to MacRumors!

This topic, and variants, have been hit extensively. Search the forums for "nikon" and canon" should get you a good idea of what people's recommendations are.

Here are some links to get you started:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=177205&highlight=nikon+canon

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=163864&highlight=nikon+canon

Personally, I don't like how Nikons feel in my hands. Because I did not own any Nikon lenses, it was easier for me to go with Canon (20D, which I LOVE).

Since you might have access to Nikon lenses it might make sense for you to go that route. As of December 2005 (? maybe November) Nikon updated their dSLR line with the addition of the D200 (an awesome camera and value).

dornoforpyros
Mar 1, 2006, 12:18 AM
I haven't pulled the trigger just yet but I'm 95% sure I'm buying a Canon Rebel this weekend.

Orlando Furioso
Mar 1, 2006, 12:28 AM
dornoforpyros, do it! do it! do it! :D

bousozoku
Mar 1, 2006, 12:45 AM
I haven't pulled the trigger just yet but I'm 95% sure I'm buying an Canon Rebel this weekend.

I wouldn't, unless I was desparate. Do yourself a favour and don't buy the kit but buy the body and another lens, e.g. the 50mm f1.8.

dornoforpyros
Mar 1, 2006, 12:48 AM
I wouldn't, unless I was desparate. Do yourself a favour and don't buy the kit but buy the body and another lens, e.g. the 50mm f1.8.

yes I've heard the lens isn't the greatest stuff out there, but my roommates got a nice collection of canon lenses so I'll just try some of his in the mean time :p

platypus63
Mar 1, 2006, 01:03 AM
Hello platypus63, welcome to MacRumors!

This topic, and variants, have been hit extensively. Search the forums for "nikon" and canon" should get you a good idea of what people's recommendations are.

Here are some links to get you started:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=177205&highlight=nikon+canon

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=163864&highlight=nikon+canon

Personally, I don't like how Nikons feel in my hands. Because I did not own any Nikon lenses, it was easier for me to go with Canon (20D, which I LOVE).

Since you might have access to Nikon lenses it might make sense for you to go that route. As of December 2005 (? maybe November) Nikon updated their dSLR line with the addition of the D200 (an awesome camera and value).

I've visited those threads oh so many times! Along with spending hours at dpreview.com. I've tried my brothers D70, and my roommates Canon Rebel, and I think im pretty much set for the D50 (and "borrow" for extended periods of time my brothers lenses). My main concern is purchasing extended warranty. Do you guys think its necessary for this stuff? I'm just a bit worried as to how a warranty through an online store would work.

Oh and by the way, what i really want is the Rebel XT, but its a bit more expensive for me, and I wont have access to extra's with it. Oh pretty pretty XT, someday it shall be mine

bousozoku
Mar 1, 2006, 01:40 AM
yes I've heard the lens isn't the greatest stuff out there, but my roommates got a nice collection of canon lenses so I'll just try some of his in the mean time :p

It's a cruel joke but a lot of people want quantity instead of quality.

Orlando Furioso
Mar 1, 2006, 01:59 AM
bousozoku, are you talking about the kit lens or canon lenses in general?

dornoforpyros
Mar 1, 2006, 02:24 AM
bousozoku, are you talking about the kit lens or canon lenses in general?

I think he's talking about the kit lens, or atleast thats what I've derived from having read this review (http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/cameraDetail.php?cam=698) is that the camera itself is fine, but the kit lens is not great.

bousozoku
Mar 1, 2006, 02:25 AM
bousozoku, are you talking about the kit lens or canon lenses in general?

The kit lens in particular, though I'm always surprised to see refurbished L-series glass.

Abstract
Mar 1, 2006, 02:57 AM
Oh and by the way, what i really want is the Rebel XT, but its a bit more expensive for me, and I wont have access to extra's with it. Oh pretty pretty XT, someday it shall be mine

But like you said, Nikon feels better in your hands. In order to use it, you pretty much need to have it in your hand at some point in time. It's not like with other things, like laptops, where you never have to take it off your desk if you don't want to. You NEED to hold it and switch settings and such.


I wouldn't, unless I was desparate.

I wouldn't buy a 350D/Rebel XT either unless I had to get a Canon. Even then, I'd get the 20D because it was miserable to use my friend's 350D for an hour, although I'm sure it takes great photos. The 20D is simply higher quality, and since the 30D was announced last week, I would probably either go for a D50 or a 20D that has been reduced in price.

bousozoku
Mar 1, 2006, 03:14 AM
But like you said, Nikon feels better in your hands. In order to use it, you pretty much need to have it in your hand at some point in time. It's not like with other things, like laptops, where you never have to take it off your desk if you don't want to. You NEED to hold it and switch settings and such.

I wouldn't buy a 350D/Rebel XT either unless I had to get a Canon. Even then, I'd get the 20D because it was miserable to use my friend's 350D for an hour, although I'm sure it takes great photos. The 20D is simply higher quality, and since the 30D was announced last week, I would probably either go for a D50 or a 20D that has been reduced in price.

Indeed. It's not even the plastic because I've worked with such an Olympus camera but it had a natural feel to it.

The 20D or 30D would be the minimal Canon SLR I would choose--and that only if Olympus and Nikon and Pentax went out of business. Canon have very good technology, they just make it difficult to use smoothly.

ChrisA
Mar 1, 2006, 11:31 AM
Hey folks,

This week I will be buying my first SLR, it's between a Canon Digital Rebel and a Nikon D50. I'm leaning more towards the Nikon, because I like it's body better, and there is some other Nikon gear laying over my house from other family members. Do you guys know if the Nikon will be upgraded anytime soon? And most importantly, do you guys suggest I get extended warranty from the store I buy it from? I was thinking of Newegg, since they have a kit for $630.

Thanks!
-platypus

IF you buy the D50 look don't buy the "kit" lens. The better lens is the lens that normally sells with the D70. The 18-70mm is much better. it has:

1) Non rotating filter ring
2) "silent wave" focus motor
3) instant manual focus over ride
4) A "real: focus ring on the lens
5) much more robust build quality
6) It is "faster"

It costs more too but if you were concidering the 350D the N50 with 18-70 is still within your bufget.

Look at Canoga Camera they've packaged the D50 and 18-70 as a kit with discount.
Also B&H has the 18-70 at a good price. The 18-70 is also easy to find used because D70 owners may want to upgrade from thier "kit lens"

Bottom line is the pay much attention to the lens you buy and not just look at camera bodies. It's the _lens_ and makes the image the body simply records it.

nubero
Mar 1, 2006, 01:51 PM
Hey folks,

This week I will be buying my first SLR, it's between a Canon Digital Rebel and a Nikon D50. I'm leaning more towards the Nikon, because I like it's body better, and there is some other Nikon gear laying over my house from other family members. Do you guys know if the Nikon will be upgraded anytime soon? And most importantly, do you guys suggest I get extended warranty from the store I buy it from? I was thinking of Newegg, since they have a kit for $630.

Thanks!
-platypus

The included lenses are from Olympus, it is bundled by them not a dealer.

I've just found a Nikon D50 with the 28-80mm F/3.3-5.6 G Lens for $599 from Ritz camera.


I did not read all the posts here so I might say something which has allready been said.
Here though is my advice:

- Get a Nikon. The thing you must look out for when buying a SLR or DSLR is the lens mount on the camera. Nikons have the so called F-Mount which exists since the 1950ies... on a modern camera body like the D200 you can use all the lenses that were made since ca 1977. Of course you will want to start with new lenses but it kinda shows the thought that has gone into the lens mount design (of course the design has been extended to allow for data transfer and such but mechanicaly it's the same as in the old days).

- True that a DSLR will always be better than a compact but that doesn't mean that you should buy the camera with the cheapest lens. Beginner or not but consider getting the 18-70mm f3.5-4.5. It is the best value for performance and still affordable. Don' get a 3.5-5.6 lens as these are really bad no matter what.

- The D50 is nice but consider the D70s. It allows you to grow much further into photography without having to buy a new camera body in 6 months. Furthermore the D50 is the only Nikon DSLR which doesn't use Compact Flash. So if you ever upgrade your camera body you will have to buy new memory cards which really is a drag. All others use CF Cards so there is no problem.

- I really don't want to start the flame wars here but do yourself a favur and don't get a canon. Go to a shop and hold the D50 or D70s and then the EOS 350 or 20D / 30D.
It's like Microsoft and Apple. One company put's love and thought into their product and the other just marketing dollars.

- Besides that: the chip inside the DSLRs is normally smaller than the size of film in an analog camera. that means that (on a Nikon DSLR) your 50mm lens becomes a 75mm one because the crop factor is 1.5. 20mm becomes 30mm and so forth.
Now: In the last 13 cameras that Nikon produced the sensor always has a crop factor of 1.5. Nikon calls this size "DX". go to a site like dpreview.com go get more info on that.
Canon on the other hand produces cameras that have sensors with different crop factors like 1.3, 1.6 and 1:1...
That is going to be a problem if you one day invest in some of the more expensive lenses and develop a strategy and then you buy a new body and all the factors of your lenses have changes. Suddenly all your lenses might slip more towards telephoto range or the other way towards wide angle...

That's all that I can say...
Again: I don't want to start a flame war here but I just feel that you get a better value with Nikon products. Them using a different card format on the D50 is a shame though.

Hope the info helps

platypus63
Mar 1, 2006, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the advice nubero, ChrisA and all of you. I've decided to go to an actual store, and not an online one, and get a D50 body and if i can afford to, the D70's kit 18-70 lens. Instead of spending the money on a higher model, I will spend what I have for the d50 body, better lens, and the couple of necessary accessories that will end up costing considerable amount as well (warranty, case & memory in particular).

Hopefully by next week I can post first of my pictures :)

Thanks

patrick0brien
Mar 1, 2006, 05:26 PM
-platypus63

In the Nikon lense discussion - I'd go for the 28-200 1:3.5-5.6 G lens. Most versatile - and tiny for the range.

-hh
Mar 2, 2006, 05:19 AM
That's all that I can say...
Again: I don't want to start a flame war here but I just feel that you get a better value with Nikon products. Them using a different card format on the D50 is a shame though.

I also don't want to start the classical Nikon-Canon (NC) debate, but do want to explore it from a different angle.

Ignoring *all* the technical nits in the NC hardware, and merely looking at industry trends, what is the prognostication for Nikon's willingness to "stick with it"?

I already own one discontinued Nikon ... they've abandoned their entire Underwater division ... so my gut is that their announcement the discontinuation of much of their 35mm line could possibly also mean a major scaling-back of "35mm" lens technology investments for the future.

At the same time, the reality could also be that Canon is (or aleady has!) doing the same thing, but simply hasn't made a public announcement to that effect...

The only real certainty is that the industry is undergoing a lot of change due to the rapid adoption of digital P&S's superceding conventional 35mm film. With such a basic change, there must be marketplace casualties...and as always, the hard part is figuring out who's going to be the survivors.

Do we think that there's enough information today to gage who's really going to prosper out of all of this?

I do realize that conventional wisdom is that its "safe" to go with Nikon and/or Canon because they'll "probably" be one of the survivors, but there's a difference between surviving and actually prospering. As much as I'd like to not say it, it is quite possible that the golden age of 35mm lens development has drawn to a close.


-hh

patrick0brien
Mar 2, 2006, 11:10 AM
...As much as I'd like to not say it, it is quite possible that the golden age of 35mm lens development has drawn to a close...

--hh

According to everything I've seen, just the 35mm camera bodies are drawing to a close. Lense development is actually accelerating - you see all those tiny VR lenses Nikon just released? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Clix Pix
Mar 2, 2006, 11:30 AM
With the recent mergers and disappearances of well-known and beloved camera manufacturers, it's not a bad thing to be wary and careful when choosing a camera and lenses from a given manufacturer. Will this company still be around in ten years? Still selling the lenses you will need or able to repair/replace the lenses you're using? I think for this reason I would avoid purchasing digital SLRs from certain manufacturers because of the possibility that they or their cameras and lenses won't be around in a few more years due to the changes in the photographic industry.

I think that the 35mm lens will still be used and useful, especially if Nikon follows Canon's lead and eventually develops a full-frame DSLR. In the meantime, yes, even as they've discontinued the majority of their 35mm cameras, they're coming out with more and more VR lenses meant specifically for their line of digital SLRs..... lenses which could not successfully be used on a regular film camera body. The new lenses for the most part are lighter weight, something which is welcome, and of course the VR can help significantly in a heavier lens.

While they're bringing out new models of their digital P&S cameras on a frequent basis, I think that for Nikon and Canon, especially, they see their big money still coming from the sale of DSLRs and the lenses to go with those DSLRs.... hence the arrival and promotion of cameras such as the Digital Rebel and the D70, which subsequently have drawn many more consumers away from the P&S into the DSLR market. With the advent of Nikon's D50 and Canon's newer verson of its Digital Rebel this trend is definitely continuing. And with all of those DSLRs they will want to push lenses: lots and lots of lenses. In many cases people will use existing lenses or buy 35mm lenses to use on their new DSLR, but in other cases the new D50 user would be just as happy to buy the camera body and one or two nice lenses and let it go at that. The new 18-200mm VR is geared towards that consumer as well as towards the photographer who has many lenses but who wants a nice walkaround lens in the kit bag too. Many new DSLR users are not going to be ready or willing to take on the challenge of a six or seven-pound 300mm or 400mm prime lens or a massive zoom which needs to be tripod-mounted for use, hence the newer, smaller, lighter weight lenses with VR....

Me, I'm waiting for a 100-500mm VR that weighs only one pound! LOL!

Just had a thought: in addition to cameras and lenses, there has been a tremendous impact on the part of the industry which sells darkroom equipment. We've already seen the disappearance of some long-popular and loved photographic papers.... I'm sure that sales of darkroom equipment and supplies (enlargers, chemicals, dryers, trays, etc.) have fizzled significantly, although of course we can hope that these items won't go away totally.

patrick0brien
Mar 2, 2006, 11:52 AM
Me, I'm waiting for a 100-500mm VR that weighs only one pound! LOL!
-Clix Pix

Holy crap! Umm yeah. Me too. the scary thing is with that range - it just might be possible we'll see something like that.

... 'course it'll be a $3,000 lens...

... and the availability will suck for a long time...

Clix Pix
Mar 2, 2006, 11:58 AM
Holy crap! Umm yeah. Me too. the scary thing is with that range - it just might be possible we'll see something like that.

... 'course it'll be a $3,000 lens...

... and the availability will suck for a long time...

You bet! Pre-orders at every camera store around this country and the world would be phenomenal! Hey, those big bad boys which weigh six or seven pounds are pretty pricey, too, so you know that our "dream lens" would be $$$$$$$$$ !! Oh, yeah, and I forgot to specify that it would be an f/1.4 lens. LOL! Nah, I'd be happy with an f/2.8 with those other specs....

-hh
Mar 2, 2006, 01:26 PM
With the recent mergers and disappearances of well-known and beloved camera manufacturers, it's not a bad thing to be wary and careful when choosing a camera and lenses from a given manufacturer...

I think that the 35mm lens will still be used and useful, especially if Nikon follows Canon's lead and eventually develops a full-frame DSLR. In the meantime, yes, even as they've discontinued the majority of their 35mm cameras, they're coming out with more and more VR lenses meant specifically for their line of digital SLRs...

Since I'm on the Canon EF/EF-S mount, I'm not familar with Nikon's land camera mounts: is the VR similar to the EF-S in that its only for APS frame dSLRs?

Reason for the question is because if the answer is "yes", then I might be inclined to suspect that that's a signal that suggests that Nikon isn't planning on going to a 35mm sensor "ever".

Many new DSLR users are not going to be ready or willing to take on the challenge of a six or seven-pound 300mm or 400mm prime lens or a massive zoom which needs to be tripod-mounted for use, hence the newer, smaller, lighter weight lenses with VR....

Weight is one factor, but cost is probably the bigger one; particularly for good quality glass.

Me, I'm waiting for a 100-500mm VR that weighs only one pound! LOL!

If you include the crop factor, my EF 75-300mm IS (superceded by Canon to a 70-300) is roughly a 120-480mm IS equivalent, and it only weighs around 1.4lbs.

Close enough?


-hh

Clix Pix
Mar 2, 2006, 01:39 PM
Since I'm on the Canon EF/EF-S mount, I'm not familar with Nikon's land camera mounts: is the VR similar to the EF-S in that its only for APS frame dSLRs?

No. It's available on full-frame 35mm lenses such as the 80-400 VR, the 70-200 VR and others. Thank goodness!

Weight is one factor, but cost is probably the bigger one; particularly for good quality glass.

This is very true, that cost will be a more daunting factor for many consumers, and those who are primarily hobbyists may not want to make the investment in good glass. In some instances, the consumer may not really understand the differences between certain lenses and only be looking at tele length or zoom range instead of the glass. Many consumers are happy with say, the fairly inexpensive 70-300 lens, not realizing that the glass on it in no way compares to the much more costly 70-200mm VR with an F/2.8 aperture. Some may realize the difference but not be able to afford one lens over the other, or they might not care.

An important factor in choosing lenses is the camera body, too, as the D200 and the D2x are far more "unforgiving" of poor lens quality than the D70, for instance. It behooves the D200 buyer to be using pro quality lenses on that camera body, whereas it's not quite as critical an issue with a D70.

If you include the crop factor, my EF 75-300mm IS (superceded by Canon to a 70-300) is roughly a 120-480mm IS equivalent, and it only weighs around 1.4lbs.

Close enough?

Nice, but I want something that is 100-500 without considering the crop factor, and no, I don't want the "Bigma," which is massive. I want a nice light, fast lens with enormous reach.....

patrick0brien
Mar 2, 2006, 01:58 PM
In some instances, the consumer may not really understand the differences between certain lenses and only be looking at tele length or zoom range instead of the glass. Many consumers are happy with say, the fairly inexpensive 70-300 lens, not realizing that the glass on it in no way compares to the much more costly 70-200mm VR with an F/2.8 aperture.
-Clix Pix

Let's also remember that the big boys have physically larger lensglass as well - which minimizes aberrations. I have the 70-300 (G), and I happened to get lucky that the glass is damn good on this one and I've observed little softness at the 300mm extreme and haven't seen any chromatic aberration (which leads me to think that I'm nuts)

Oh, yeah, and I forgot to specify that it would be an f/1.4 lens...

... speaking of nuts...

;) :D

madmonk
Mar 3, 2006, 12:36 AM
Since I'm on the Canon EF/EF-S mount, I'm not familar with Nikon's land camera mounts: is the VR similar to the EF-S in that its only for APS frame dSLRs?


VR is not a type of mount. It stands for Vibration Reduction (same as IS for Canon I assume)

-hh
Mar 3, 2006, 09:12 AM
VR is not a type of mount. It stands for Vibration Reduction (same as IS for Canon I assume)

Ah, that's right... VR = IS. Thanks.

I was trying to remember the Nikon nomenclature equivalents of Canon's EF (35mm) and EF-S (digital) lens mounts.


It would appear that what I was looking for might be D and DX? It seems to be a topic of confusion...or as per B&H, a topic of frustration (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=nikonComu.jsp&A=getpage&Q=Product_Resources/nomenclature.jsp)!

Egads, there's even an IX (APS film), as well as all of the "ai" lexicon. Makes me kind of feel lucky that I didn't pick Nikon when I was making a clean start with my land camera system around ten years ago.


-hh

(VR?)
No. It's available on full-frame 35mm lenses such as the 80-400 VR, the 70-200 VR and others. Thank goodness!

Understood...I was getting VR (Canon IS) nomenclature crossed with lens mount.

(Weight vs Cost)
This is very true, that cost will be a more daunting factor for many consumers, and those who are primarily hobbyists may not want to make the investment in good glass.

Or more importantly, the hobbyist's spouse may be the veto!

I'm still having trouble convincing my wife that I could really use a Canon EF 400mm DO IS...she keeps on saying something about her preferences are to have the kitchen rennovated (which very well might be cheaper).

In some instances, the consumer may not really understand the differences between certain lenses and only be looking at tele length or zoom range instead of the glass. Many consumers are happy with say, the fairly inexpensive 70-300 lens, not realizing that the glass on it in no way compares to the much more costly 70-200mm VR with an F/2.8 aperture.

Agreed. I suspect its lot like the 'megapixel race', which was also reminiscient of the 'megahertz myth' ... its all too common to oversimplify and fixate on just one variable at the expense of all others: lenses by focal length, PC's by MHz/GHz CPU speed, automobiles by Horsepower, digital cameras by Megapixels, etc.

(7x-300mm before cropping factor?)

Nice, but I want something that is 100-500 without considering the crop factor, and no, I don't want the "Bigma," which is massive. I want a nice light, fast lens with enormous reach.....

*poof*

Done. You will find it sitting on the back seat of your flying car. :)

Okay, a bit more seriously, I think that the laws of physics are yanking that "have our cake" desire in opposite directions: to get mass down, we have to get the primary element's diameter down...and to do that without going to a horribly slow lens means that the sensor element has to do a quantum shrink in its size. Since we're already down into "photon counts" with current sensor tech for S/N ratio's, there's not that much room for us to work with...and even if we could get it all this far, the manufacturing tolerances on the optics would kill us, even before we start to consider how much their shape would be altered in troutine use by currently insignificant factors such as dust motes and cleaning solutions.



-hh

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 3, 2006, 09:33 AM
-platypus63

In the Nikon lense discussion - I'd go for the 28-200 1:3.5-5.6 G lens. Most versatile - and tiny for the range.


I'll second that. I have the D50 with the 18-200VR, and it was a great kit for my recent travels.

Though a lot is said by some about kit lenses. Yes, they are not top notch, but after selling many kits with them - I have never had a customer return it because of disappointment.

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 3, 2006, 09:36 AM
-Clix Pix

Holy crap! Umm yeah. Me too. the scary thing is with that range - it just might be possible we'll see something like that.

... 'course it'll be a $3,000 lens...

... and the availability will suck for a long time...

LOL, great post.

Actually I think that we'll see a "budget" 200-400VR 4.5-5.6. It would be a great companion to the 18-200VR.

Clix Pix
Mar 3, 2006, 12:33 PM
Ah, that's right... VR = IS. Thanks.

I was trying to remember the Nikon nomenclature equivalents of Canon's EF (35mm) and EF-S (digital) lens mounts.

Since I'm not all that familiar with Canon's nomenclature, it totally slipped right by me that you weren't talking about the DX lenses vs traditional Nikkor FF 35mm lenses.... Nikon's "VR" stands for "Vibratiion Reduction," indeed. Guess they didn't want to use the term "Image Stablization" if that were already in use by Canon. :)

Well, that's OK: for the longest time I got confused when people on a photography site I sometimes participate in talked about "TV" on their Canon cameras. Huh? Why not just use the standard terminology like everyone else: aperture, shutter speed, etc...?! "TV" is Canon-speak for "shutter speed," isn't it? I've forgotten what it is for aperture.

Agreed. I suspect its lot like the 'megapixel race', which was also reminiscient of the 'megahertz myth' ... its all too common to oversimplify and fixate on just one variable at the expense of all others: lenses by focal length, PC's by MHz/GHz CPU speed, automobiles by Horsepower, digital cameras by Megapixels, etc.

Yep, you see that all too often these days. The consumer stands in the CompUSA or Microcenter or Best Buy camera display section and says, "but this one has more megapixels!" without taking anything else into consideration....oh, except price, of course. They want the most megapixels for their buck.

*poof*

Done. You will find it sitting on the back seat of your flying car. :)

*Jumps up from iMac, rushes to window to see if the flying car is parked in the driveway! :D

Okay, a bit more seriously, I think that the laws of physics are yanking that "have our cake" desire in opposite directions: to get mass down, we have to get the primary element's diameter down...and to do that without going to a horribly slow lens means that the sensor element has to do a quantum shrink in its size. Since we're already down into "photon counts" with current sensor tech for S/N ratio's, there's not that much room for us to work with...and even if we could get it all this far, the manufacturing tolerances on the optics would kill us, even before we start to consider how much their shape would be altered in troutine use by currently insignificant factors such as dust motes and cleaning solutions.

...And if the sensor shrinks i size any further you're gonna have a noisy camera at any ISO!

Clix Pix
Mar 3, 2006, 12:37 PM
Actually I think that we'll see a "budget" 200-400VR 4.5-5.6. It would be a great companion to the 18-200VR.


Oh, boy, wouldn't it?! I am sure that a lot of people would line up to buy that one! Let me know when you're taking pre-orders....

-hh
Mar 3, 2006, 02:42 PM
*Jumps up from iMac, rushes to window to see if the flying car is parked in the driveway! :D


http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4347/flyingcar1fq.jpg

http://www.nicheblogs.net/flying-car/auto_flying.jpg


:D

-hh

Clix Pix
Mar 3, 2006, 05:44 PM
ROTFL!!!! I'll be back after I finish wiping off my monitor.....

ChrisA
Mar 3, 2006, 08:05 PM
LOL, great post.
Actually I think that we'll see a "budget" 200-400VR 4.5-5.6. It would be a great companion to the 18-200VR.

You can have one now. Just buy a 2x teleconverter and add it to your 18-200 and then you will have a 36-400 f/6-8 Maybe not as fast as you'd like but you did say "budget".

Actualy a 400mm lens is very hard to use VR or not. Thermal air currents and haze between you and the subject means that in the real world you can't photograph subjects that are very far away and even for moderate distances and small subjects (birds) you need a tripod and ball head that costs almost as much at the lens. Anyhting over 200mm is getting into some specialized gear

ChrisA
Mar 3, 2006, 08:34 PM
as the D200 and the D2x are far more "unforgiving" of poor lens quality than the D70, for instance. It behooves the D200 buyer to be using pro quality lenses on that camera body, whereas it's not quite as critical an issue with a D70.

In terms of DPI, the D200 has only 29% more resolution then the D50/D70. What matters is pixels per inch, not the total number. So 10MP is only a slight (29%) increase over 6MP.

The D50 has 3000 pixels over 24mm wide sensor. that is 250 pixels per mm. Even a "pro" lens has a hard time imaging 100 lines per mm. For 100lpmm t you need good glass, a ridgid tripod and a high contrast subject. and guess what? 250ppm is just enough to sample a 100lpmm image. It looks like the engineers at nikon choose 6MP because it is the absolute minium needed to take advantage of a good lens. Better sampling will give better contrast in fine details but I doubt more details

In many case we are defraction limited. before we reach the limits of the 6MP sensor

I think actually 10MP is the most you'd want on a DX sized sensor and then you'd have to go full frame and 16MP. in 20 years when the DSLR becomes mature I'd expect to see full frame 16 to 20MP camera become the "standard" and not move after that.


Nice, but I want something that is 100-500 without considering the crop factor, and no, I don't want the "Bigma," which is massive. I want a nice light, fast lens with enormous reach.....

Pick your max f-stop. Lets say you want it to be f/4.0. Then by definition the front element needs to be _at least_ 500/4.0 diameter that's 125mm or about 5 inches. No way to change that either.

patrick0brien
Mar 4, 2006, 12:41 AM
You can have one now. Just buy a 2x teleconverter and add it to your 18-200 and then you will have a 36-400 f/6-8 Maybe not as fast as you'd like but you did say "budget".

Actualy a 400mm lens is very hard to use VR or not. Thermal air currents and haze between you and the subject means that in the real world you can't photograph subjects that are very far away and even for moderate distances and small subjects (birds) you need a tripod and ball head that costs almost as much at the lens. Anyhting over 200mm is getting into some specialized gear
-ChrisA

True, but IIRC the teleconverters remove AF.

Chip NoVaMac
Mar 4, 2006, 12:52 AM
-ChrisA

True, but IIRC the teleconverters remove AF.

Not to mention the VR function.

We have not received word from Nikon at my shop about the compatibility of the 18-200VR with the Nikon TC convertors. My guess is that they will not lead to good results.

Clix Pix
Mar 4, 2006, 12:55 AM
I don't really like messing with teleconverters anyway and I don't see that it would be all that good of an idea to put one on my 18-200 lens. I would prefer to leave well enough alone with that lens.

platypus63
Mar 6, 2006, 11:39 AM
Thanks guys for the suggestions on my post. I just bought the D70 off my brother for a low family friendly price:). He was looking into a higher end model himself, but i made him hasten up his plans. Now I've gotta go and take some pictures.

Oh by the way, with the money i've saved getting this instead of a new D50, I can afford to purchase photoshop ($290 through my university!). Would you guys recommend that for a beginner photographer for either editing or manipulating? Or are the necessities covered enough in iphoto?

Thanks,
platypus

patrick0brien
Mar 6, 2006, 11:44 AM
-platypus63

I hate you...

... In the nicest way. Congrats.

Now it's LENS TIME!!! Bwahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!

bousozoku
Mar 6, 2006, 11:54 AM
Thanks guys for the suggestions on my post. I just bought the D70 off my brother for a low family friendly price:). He was looking into a higher end model himself, but i made him hasten up his plans. Now I've gotta go and take some pictures.

Oh by the way, with the money i've saved getting this instead of a new D50, I can afford to purchase photoshop ($290 through my university!). Would you guys recommend that for a beginner photographer for either editing or manipulating? Or are the necessities covered enough in iphoto?

Thanks,
platypus

Photoshop Elements is enough for almost anyone who isn't doing professional print work.

Good luck with the new camera.

Clix Pix
Mar 6, 2006, 12:11 PM
Although that's a killer price (lucky students!) for Photoshop, the reality is that Photoshop Elements is more than sufficient for what you'll be doing. Buy that -- I think v.4 for Mac is now available -- and then put the extra funds towards a really good lens.