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View Full Version : My Mp3 ignorance rests on apple's shoulders




student_trap
Apr 3, 2006, 06:34 AM
Just a thought:

I was chatting to a friend yesterday, and ipods/mp3 players came up. My friend had a Creative Zen Micro (her first Mp3 player) and I have (numerous) ipods (my first mp3 player was an ipod). Now i was quite impressed by her zen micro, it was small, had 6gigs of storage and a cool blue light. The touch sensitive controlls worked well (not as well as my ipods though!) and all seemed good...it even had a built in radio!

Then she excused the messyness of the player, at which I was baffled: how can it be messy? She continued to tell me that she had not put the albums etc in any particular order etc, something she obviously has to do manually.

Another little thing that my ipod (specifically itunes) does that i take for granted.

just makes me realise...gosh those guys at apple are good;)



Sharewaredemon
Apr 3, 2006, 07:49 AM
Just a thought:

I was chatting to a friend yesterday, and ipods/mp3 players came up. My friend had a Creative Zen Micro (her first Mp3 player) and I have (numerous) ipods (my first mp3 player was an ipod). Now i was quite impressed by her zen micro, it was small, had 6gigs of storage and a cool blue light. The touch sensitive controlls worked well (not as well as my ipods though!) and all seemed good...it even had a built radio!

Then she excused the messyness of the player, at which I was baffled: how can it be messy? She continued to tell me that she had not put the albums etc in any particular order etc, something she obviously has to do manually.

Another little thing that my ipod (specifically itunes) does that i take for granted.

just makes me realise...gosh those guys at apple are good;)

The iTunes integration in terms of that is by far the most underrated, and possibly best thing about the iPod.

It's. So. Easy.

NATO
Apr 3, 2006, 07:36 PM
I couldn't agree more. I had a Creative Zen Touch before I found the world of the Mac and the iPod. Until then it was such a hassle to keep my music organised and updated (although back then I didn't know there was a better way). I've never had my music better organised than I do right now through iTunes.

mkrishnan
Apr 3, 2006, 07:41 PM
Is that for real? How does organization work on Creative players? :( The only on computer player I used extensively in the Windows world was the one from Real, but it really was pretty similar to iTunes.

bousozoku
Apr 3, 2006, 08:01 PM
Is that for real? How does organization work on Creative players? :( The only on computer player I used extensively in the Windows world was the one from Real, but it really was pretty similar to iTunes.

It's for real. The one thing I've heard repeatedly as a complaint is the fact that you can't just drag and drop your music into an iPod. Apparently, some people just don't like convenience because they're not in control. (I suspect they're not in control anyway but that's another story.)

It's a constant joy to see how well iTunes and iPod work.

nattyz
Apr 3, 2006, 09:57 PM
bleh i dont like itunes, its like facist software. why cant we just drag and drop our files onto the player, preserving our native, and often unique, filesturcture. that would allow us to organize our music the way we want it, instead of the way the nazis @ apple want it.

i like the ipod, just dont like the way you have to put music onto it. its a nightmare if you dont have id3 tags that arent uniformly organized.

Stampyhead
Apr 3, 2006, 10:59 PM
bleh i dont like itunes, its like facist software. why cant we just drag and drop our files onto the player, preserving our native, and often unique, filesturcture. that would allow us to organize our music the way we want it, instead of the way the nazis @ apple want it.

i like the ipod, just dont like the way you have to put music onto it. its a nightmare if you dont have id3 tags that arent uniformly organized.
The way iTunes does it is the way I want it, so it's not a problem for me.

mkrishnan
Apr 3, 2006, 11:12 PM
The way iTunes does it is the way I want it, so it's not a problem for me.

There's a difference between fascism and greasing the economic wheel. Every country exerts pressure in the form of regulative control on their free markets and on the freedom of the people. Wise countries do it in such a way as to spur innovation, achievement, art, and beauty. Foolish countries do it as a power trip. In the case of software, every approach involves the placement of limitations.

But look at iPods and iPod users. There are a lot more of us, and a lot more music on our players than anyone else's. So Apple's system encourages people to listen to music, by making it manageable. The data seems to suggest they did an excellent job of this....

bousozoku
Apr 3, 2006, 11:46 PM
bleh i dont like itunes, its like facist software. why cant we just drag and drop our files onto the player, preserving our native, and often unique, filesturcture. that would allow us to organize our music the way we want it, instead of the way the nazis @ apple want it.

i like the ipod, just dont like the way you have to put music onto it. its a nightmare if you dont have id3 tags that arent uniformly organized.

You don't organise your music properly, so iTunes is fascist software?

maxterpiece
Apr 4, 2006, 12:15 AM
bleh i dont like itunes, its like facist software. why cant we just drag and drop our files onto the player, preserving our native, and often unique, filesturcture. that would allow us to organize our music the way we want it, instead of the way the nazis @ apple want it.

i like the ipod, just dont like the way you have to put music onto it. its a nightmare if you dont have id3 tags that arent uniformly organized.
You don't have to let iTunes organize your music. Go to prefs -> advanced, then uncheck "keep itunes music folder organized", and "copy files to itunes music folder when adding to library". From then on you can drag and drop music into the itunes window (or double click it), and it will stay organized however you have it organized.

nattyz
Apr 4, 2006, 08:54 PM
my music is organized perfectly-- for me, in folders (artist/album/artist - track # - song name.mp3), they way i like it. i have alot of songs w/out id3 tags (or incomplete id3s), so when i put them in the ipod they become a jumbled mess. ipod's menus use artist, album, and song from id3 tags. i had to edit sooo many id3s to make my pod useable, such a pain in the ass. i know im not alone on this.

grapes911
Apr 4, 2006, 08:59 PM
my music is organized perfectly-- for me, in folders (artist/album/artist - track # - song name.mp3), they way i like it. i have alot of songs w/out id3 tags (or incomplete id3s), so when i put them in the ipod they become a jumbled mess. ipod's menus use artist, album, and song from id3 tags. i had to edit sooo many id3s to make my pod useable, such a pain in the ass. i know im not alone on this.

Then you should check out a program called TriTag. I used it to change my file names based on the ID3 tags, but you can go the other way too. So as long as you really do organize your song files as you say you do, then this program will be great.

Note: I haven't used this program in a while now so I don't know if it was updated, if it still works well, etc. Since I started using purchasing songs from iTunes, there really isn't a need to use it.

nattyz
Apr 5, 2006, 09:12 PM
too late, i have already done all the tag editing...like i said, it's a major pain in the ass. and thats beside the point, apple shouldnt force ppl into adding/organizing music on the pod the way they do. they are just as bad as micro$uck.

Togglehead
Apr 5, 2006, 09:23 PM
Then you should check out a program called TriTag. I used it to change my file names based on the ID3 tags, but you can go the other way too. So as long as you really do organize your song files as you say you do, then this program will be great.

Note: I haven't used this program in a while now so I don't know if it was updated, if it still works well, etc. Since I started using purchasing songs from iTunes, there really isn't a need to use it.
they make one for PC too...Tagscanner.....super powerful and free

s'how i update my tags for my Rio Karma...=]

Counterfit
Apr 5, 2006, 10:57 PM
too late, i have already done all the tag editing...like i said, it's a major pain in the ass. and thats beside the point, apple shouldnt force ppl into adding/organizing music on the pod the way they do. they are just as bad as micro$uck.
People shouldn't be so damned resistant to metadata. It's there to make your life easier.

Temujin
Apr 6, 2006, 02:48 AM
The one thing I've heard repeatedly as a complaint is the fact that you can't just drag and drop your music into an iPod.

I think you can. My father could drag and drop images onto his 60GB G5. He didn't try music though. He did it on his PC. Don't know if that makes a difference.

I've also heard of software enabling users to use the iPod as an external drive. Should do the trick.

bousozoku
Apr 6, 2006, 03:17 AM
I think you can. My father could drag and drop images onto his 60GB G5. He didn't try music though. He did it on his PC. Don't know if that makes a difference.

I've also heard of software enabling users to use the iPod as an external drive. Should do the trick.

I keep my photos backed up on my iPod when I'm out shooting somewhere. That's no problem but getting to the music, which is hidden and needs the database updated so that the iPod knows which music is there, is another matter.

Temujin
Apr 6, 2006, 03:30 AM
I keep my photos backed up on my iPod when I'm out shooting somewhere. That's no problem but getting to the music, which is hidden and needs the database updated so that the iPod knows which music is there, is another matter.

Not cool IMO. Giving me second thoughts about getting the 30GB.

What about using the iPod as an external drive. Do I have to use crack software to get that to work? Or does it work as any other external drive?

bousozoku
Apr 6, 2006, 03:54 AM
Not cool IMO. Giving me second thoughts about getting the 30GB.

What about using the iPod as an external drive. Do I have to use crack software to get that to work? Or does it work as any other external drive?

It works just fine as an external drive, but I guess I wasn't specific enough about how I use it. You merely use iTunes preferences to allow such use. You must remember to eject the drive, as you would any other Mac OS X drive.

As far as drag and drop music, why would you when iTunes brilliantly manages the music for you?

Applespider
Apr 6, 2006, 04:06 AM
Hmm, I get that iTunes organises based on the id3 tags but even then it does do Artist>Album so it's hardly fascist or hard to understand. And doesn't it make it easier in any system if your songs have tags?

Must confess to becoming more of an id tag facist myself though since I like having all my songs properly labelled with album art etc. Makes the whole experience much more pleasant.

What was I surprised at on the iPod recently? I don't visit the 'extras' often and ended up clicking on the date/time the other day and was amazed to find it was correct with DST applied. Thinking about it logically, it shouldn't have surprised me but I know that I've never actually had to go into it and set it it so it did.

Cinematographer
Apr 6, 2006, 04:07 AM
What about using the iPod as an external drive. Do I have to use crack software to get that to work? Or does it work as any other external drive?

You don't need any additional software. The iPod can be used as any other external hard drive. You can even boot from it, although I wouldn't suggest to do that on a regular basis. Be careful with that.

Temujin
Apr 6, 2006, 05:49 AM
It works just fine as an external drive, but I guess I wasn't specific enough about how I use it. You merely use iTunes preferences to allow such use. You must remember to eject the drive, as you would any other Mac OS X drive.

As far as drag and drop music, why would you when iTunes brilliantly manages the music for you?

External drive: Cool, then im back in

iTunes: It's just to much of a bother. The sync thing and all. I don't let iTunes manage my music, only alphabetically. When I wan't to listen to a particular song I just do a search. I've thrown all my songs into Library. No categories. I just need a music player, not a music organizer.

Doing the drag and drop would be much faster. People without iTunes could still share their music with me.

Applespider
Apr 6, 2006, 06:17 AM
iTunes: It's just to much of a bother. The sync thing and all.

I really don't get the 'bother' bit here. You plug in your iPod, iTunes automatically sees it and updates it. With FW on the average synch, it takes well under a minute and I don't have to think about whether I've added some songs by certain artists, nor do I have to recall if I made changes to album art/ratings etc. It takes care of all of it. It would take longer to find 5 folders in Finder and drag them over.

I don't let iTunes manage my music, only alphabetically. When I wan't to listen to a particular song I just do a search. I've thrown all my songs into Library. No categories. I just need a music player, not a music organizer.

Doing the drag and drop would be much faster. People without iTunes could still share their music with me.

Likewise - but I search in iTunes (which is quicker than a system wide Spotlight search) If I do want to listen to a particular genre, it's easier to do so. If I feel like listening to songs that I haven't heard for a few months, then I can do that. It just feels so much simplter.

And I can still share my music with non-iTunes users. If they connect to my PB, they just have to go to my Music>iTunes Library folders and they can see each artist and play their music (aside from the iTMS things) - but again, it would be quicker if they had iTunes...

Quite honestly, iTunes and my iPod have changed the way I listen to music. I listen to far more of it (both timewise) and more artists (and buy much more music) than I did for abotu 10 years beforehand.

bousozoku
Apr 6, 2006, 06:29 AM
External drive: Cool, then im back in

iTunes: It's just to much of a bother. The sync thing and all. I don't let iTunes manage my music, only alphabetically. When I wan't to listen to a particular song I just do a search. I've thrown all my songs into Library. No categories. I just need a music player, not a music organizer.

Doing the drag and drop would be much faster. People without iTunes could still share their music with me.

It's the opposite of a bother to synchronise music and, since you want to use it as an external drive, you've already mounted it. Of course, I come to this point having ripped my CD collection for which the ID3 tag information was available with a few exceptions. There is no real bother.

Temujin
Apr 6, 2006, 06:37 AM
As to sync, I have a huge mp3 collection. And not all songs are worth while listening to, so I don't need a mirrored library on my iPod.

I'll be using the iPod primarily for music, but I do need it working as an external drive as well. Alot of media/data files will be dragged to and from school.

Quite honestly, iTunes and my iPod have changed the way I listen to music. I listen to far more of it (both timewise) and more artists (and buy much more music) than I did for abotu 10 years beforehand.

Could happen to me too. Not owning one might make the brilliancy of the iTunes + iPod combo nonapparent. Well see how I feel when I do get one.

Furthermore im very used to the drag and drop method with years of use, through Windows and using my PDA as a mp3 player. I adjusted to OSX why not iTunes then. Well just have to see :)

Temujin
Apr 6, 2006, 06:41 AM
It's the opposite of a bother to synchronise music and, since you want to use it as an external drive, you've already mounted it. Of course, I come to this point having ripped my CD collection for which the ID3 tag information was available with a few exceptions. There is no real bother.

The ID3 exceptions in my collection are staggering :eek:

Applespider
Apr 6, 2006, 07:31 AM
As to sync, I have a huge mp3 collection. And not all songs are worth while listening to, so I don't need a mirrored library on my iPod.


There's the beauty - the synching can mirror your entire Library, can ignore songs that you've unchecked, can only mirror certain playlists or can be entirely manual where you drag and drop from within iTunes. I don't have every song on my iPod ;)

Temujin
Apr 6, 2006, 08:20 AM
There's the beauty - the synching can mirror your entire Library, can ignore songs that you've unchecked, can only mirror certain playlists or can be entirely manual where you drag and drop from within iTunes. I don't have every song on my iPod ;)

Well the sync options sounds great and all but kind of proves my point.
I'm looking for simplicity. I don't want to check/uncheck various tracks to get the sync to work as intented.

Tell you what, when I get my iPod I'll go iTunes all the way. If it turns out that it isn't as simple as promised by you, I'll give you hell :p

Deal? ;)

decksnap
Apr 8, 2006, 09:37 PM
Temujin- it really is as easy as possible. It gives you any and all options you want. You want to drag and drop it all manually? OK. YOu want to sync your entire library? OK. What I think you'd like it 'Sync selected playlists only', where you just add/delete what you want from defined playlists and only these playlists get synced. The power of iTunes is parallel to the knowledge of the user- they've covered all the bases.

taylorpc
Apr 11, 2006, 10:06 PM
The thing that gave me the most pause about purchasing an ipod was the fact that I had NO idea how to organize it all. Then a friend of mine got one, and he just plugged it into his computer and itunes did all the work. I was amazed... everything on his ipod perfectly in order. I bought one shortly thereafter and have been basking in the wonder of this heavenly little device. :cool:

quigleybc
Apr 13, 2006, 04:20 PM
bleh i dont like itunes, its like facist software. why cant we just drag and drop our files onto the player, preserving our native, and often unique, filesturcture. that would allow us to organize our music the way we want it, instead of the way the nazis @ apple want it.

i like the ipod, just dont like the way you have to put music onto it. its a nightmare if you dont have id3 tags that arent uniformly organized.



Most ridiculous thing I've read on MR in a long time............:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


When I import stuff, I create a new playlist, drag the music into that playlist, highlight all the tracks, press cmd+I and name all the tracks with the proper artist, album, genre ect...then I use Clutter to find the album art on Amazon, press cmd+shift+K and it adds the artwork to all the tracks at once...done...takes maybe three minutes.

Is that ID3 Tags? what is an ID3 tag?

decksnap
Apr 13, 2006, 04:32 PM
Most ridiculous thing I've read on MR in a long time............:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


Seconded.

That's what happens when people pretend they know what they're talking about.

By the way, natty, the way you say you organize is the same way iTunes does if you let it, but it does it automatically, so changing an artist name changes the folder name, etc. I don't know how you tag things, but tagging in iTunes could not be faster or easier.

hulugu
Apr 13, 2006, 04:48 PM
Not cool IMO. Giving me second thoughts about getting the 30GB.

What about using the iPod as an external drive. Do I have to use crack software to get that to work? Or does it work as any other external drive?

It's just the music that is hidden, but there are more ways to copy music from the iPod than there are ways to skin a cat. People mountains out of molehills on this one.

hulugu
Apr 13, 2006, 04:51 PM
Is that ID3 Tags? what is an ID3 tag?

It's the tag that lets your iPod know what all the information about that particular song, so artist, track number, etc. These can be added via CDDB or by typing it all in, but once it's there, the ID3 tag stays with the Mp3 (or AAC). This is how the iPod knows about the song as well, and displays album covers, etc.
It's just neat little metadata, but some people have these byzantine ways of doing it on their own; some I suspect don't really know how to use iTunes and really wouldn't have a problem.

Electro Funk
Apr 13, 2006, 05:58 PM
too late, i have already done all the tag editing...like i said, it's a major pain in the ass. and thats beside the point, apple shouldnt force ppl into adding/organizing music on the pod the way they do. they are just as bad as micro$uck.

i take it you failed to read Maxtorpeice's post a few above yours?

Electro Funk
Apr 13, 2006, 05:59 PM
Most ridiculous thing I've read on MR in a long time............:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


When I import stuff, I create a new playlist, drag the music into that playlist, highlight all the tracks, press cmd+I and name all the tracks with the proper artist, album, genre ect...then I use Clutter to find the album art on Amazon, press cmd+shift+K and it adds the artwork to all the tracks at once...done...takes maybe three minutes.

Is that ID3 Tags? what is an ID3 tag?

Agreed... iTunes could not make this any easier for us! ;)

Counterfit
Apr 16, 2006, 08:19 PM
It's the tag that lets your iPod know what all the information about that particular song, so artist, track number, etc. These can be added via CDDB or by typing it all in, but once it's there, the ID3 tag stays with the Mp3 (or AAC). This is how the iPod knows about the song as well, and displays album covers, etc.
More specifically: http://www.id3.org/