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rdowns
Apr 5, 2006, 07:41 AM
Apple(R) today introduced Boot Camp, public beta software that enables Intel-based Macs to run Windows XP. Available as a download beginning today, Boot Camp allows users with a Microsoft Windows XP installation disc to install Windows XP on an Intel-based Mac(R), and once installation is complete, users can restart their computer to run either Mac OS(R) X or Windows XP. Boot Camp will be a feature in "Leopard," Apple's next major release of Mac OS X, that will be previewed at Apple's Worldwide Developer Conference in August.

"Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple's superior hardware now that we use Intel processors," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "We think Boot Camp makes the Mac even more appealing to Windows users considering making the switch."

Boot Camp simplifies Windows installation on an Intel-based Mac by providing a simple graphical step-by-step assistant application to dynamically create a second partition on the hard drive for Windows, to burn a CD with all the necessary Windows drivers, and to install Windows from a Windows XP installation CD. After installation is complete, users can choose to run either Mac OS X or Windows when they restart their computer.

Pricing & Availability

The public beta of Boot Camp is available immediately as a download at www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp, and is preview software licensed for use on a trial basis for a limited time. The final version of Boot Camp will be available as a feature in the upcoming Mac OS X version 10.5 "Leopard." Apple does not provide support for installing or running Boot Camp and does not sell or support Microsoft Windows software. Apple welcomes user feedback on Boot Camp at bootcamp@apple.com.

System Requirements

Boot Camp requires an Intel-based Mac with a USB keyboard and mouse, or a built-in keyboard and TrackPad; Mac OS X version 10.4.6 or later; the latest firmware update; at least 10GB of free space on the startup disk; a blank recordable CD or DVD; and single-disc version of Windows XP Home Edition or Professional with Service Pack 2 or later.

Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh. Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.

iGary
Apr 5, 2006, 07:44 AM
Michael Dell is pooping his pants.

Right now.

eva01
Apr 5, 2006, 07:44 AM
hahahah all those people searching forever for a way to install windows and all those countless hours gone to waste by Apple doing it themselves

DeSnousa
Apr 5, 2006, 07:48 AM
..... and so it begins. I don't think its a bad idea, I guess only time will tell if it is good :confused:

Applespider
Apr 5, 2006, 07:48 AM
It's quite a change of tune from 'We won't stop anyone putting Windows on their Intel Macs' to 'We'll help people do it'

Interesting since it makes it more possible for non-geeks and may help the switcher market decide it's worthwhile. I notice that it still requires the XP disc so they're not actually selling Windows - which would I suspect be taken negatively by the press.

iGary
Apr 5, 2006, 07:49 AM
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit™.

alywa
Apr 5, 2006, 07:49 AM
Is this for real? Has anyone tried it yet?

I think the "pooping his pants" comment about Michael Dell is just about right.

I want an intel mac now just to try it!

-alywa

Chaszmyr
Apr 5, 2006, 07:50 AM
Is this for real? Has anyone tried it yet?

I think the "pooping his pants" comment about Michael Dell is just about right.

I want an intel mac now just to try it!

-alywa

No one has had time to try it, but it's real alright.

mad jew
Apr 5, 2006, 07:51 AM
I wonder what effect this'll have on the virtualisation companies. I'd personally prefer to have Windows inset into OSX rather than a dual booting situation, but that's just me.

eva01
Apr 5, 2006, 07:51 AM
I just think this is great that no more bootloader is needed....poor poor onmac.net All that hard work gone to waste

Chaszmyr
Apr 5, 2006, 07:53 AM
I just think this is great that no more bootloader is needed....poor poor onmac.net All that hard work gone to waste

So much for their video driver contest, eh? :p

Think Apple will get the $1500? haha

jer2eydevil88
Apr 5, 2006, 07:53 AM
Has anyone used it for gaming yet?

BlizzardBomb
Apr 5, 2006, 07:54 AM
It says it has graphics drivers included! Games anyone? :eek:

jer2eydevil88
Apr 5, 2006, 07:54 AM
has anyone tried it yet? how are the graphics drivers?

gauchogolfer
Apr 5, 2006, 07:56 AM
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit™.

Darn, post #7, iGary. When I saw the thread title, I bet on post #5 in my office pool. :D :D

I do think it's a bit funny that people spent so much time trying to get it to work. Will those dudes have to give back the $13,000 now?

I like the snide comments on the Apple site, by the way.


Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries.



Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes.

DeSnousa
Apr 5, 2006, 07:57 AM
So much for their video driver contest, eh? :p

Think Apple will get the $1500? haha

I can see one of the Apple developers claiming :rolleyes:

I agree with mad jew I love Macs and that's all i want to use, but having Window's at a click for the small amount of things I require of it would be great.

Just thinking, solitaire anyone ;)

Edit: the people who spent time getting Window's on Mac, was not a waste of time, rather Apple learnt something of the demand. Either way, Apple is virtually throwing bucks at Microsoft.

Edit 2: What would this mean for software? I can see Microsoft saying if you want Word, install Windows on your Mac :rolleyes:

mad jew
Apr 5, 2006, 07:58 AM
I can't find any mention of a fan/temperature driver. I'm sure Apple would have thought of it though.

BlizzardBomb
Apr 5, 2006, 07:58 AM
Just thinking, solitaire anyone ;)

I was thinking more Rome: Total War and Half-Life 2 anyone ;)

Chaszmyr
Apr 5, 2006, 07:59 AM
I can't find any mention of a fan/temperature driver. I'm sure Apple would have thought of it though.

No driver necessary, it's in the firmware.

mad jew
Apr 5, 2006, 08:01 AM
Yeah, good point, but aren't the current Intel Macs having issues with overheating because of the lack of fan support?

gauchogolfer
Apr 5, 2006, 08:02 AM
Hey, I could finally use Origin and MathCad.

(at least until OriginLabs gets off its ass and makes an OS X native version :))

Chaszmyr
Apr 5, 2006, 08:02 AM
Yeah, good point, but aren't the current Intel Macs having issues with overheating because of the lack of fan support?

I've heard a couple of reports about people booting Windows and having heat issues with OnMac.net's solution, but it was verified that they do have fan control nonetheless.

MacSA
Apr 5, 2006, 08:02 AM
Service Pack 2 only........ :( What can you do if your PC came with XP SP1 on a CD? Nothing I guess?

mad jew
Apr 5, 2006, 08:04 AM
I've heard a couple of reports about people booting Windows and having heat issues with OnMac.net's solution, but it was verified that they do have fan control nonetheless.


Yeah. I'd assume Apple would have thought of something fundamental like this anyway. I've really gotta get one of those Intel iBooks now.


Service Pack 2 only........ :( What can you do if your PC came with XP SP1 on a CD? Nothing I guess?


Well, it'd be illegal to use the copy bundled with your PC. Aside from that, Apple implies anything other than a regular retail version of Windows won't work anyway. :)

iMeowbot
Apr 5, 2006, 08:06 AM
I know that there was one report of a dead Macbook, but that machine also had RAM recovered from a Mac that had been stabbed to death. MBPs seem to be overheating all by themselves, even without Windows, so I tend to chalk that problem up to the hardware.

There are some gotchas, at least in the beta. Not all hardware (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303572) is supported.
Even after installling the Macintosh Drivers CD, the Apple Remote Control (IR), Apple Wireless (Bluetooth) keyboard or mouse, Apple USB Modem, MacBook Pro's sudden motion sensor, MacBook Pro's ambient light sensor, and built-in iSight camera will not function correctly when running Windows.

DeSnousa
Apr 5, 2006, 08:08 AM
At least Apple is holding some of their own dignity. From the web page:

EFI and BIOS
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries.

jer2eydevil88
Apr 5, 2006, 08:09 AM
Service Pack 2 only........ :( What can you do if your PC came with XP SP1 on a CD? Nothing I guess?

Assuming you have that copy of XP that came with your PC and you want to update it to Service Pack 2.
http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsXP/winxp-sp2-bootcd.html

It is illegal to use it on both computers at the same time and if it is an OEM copy it may even be illegal to use on any other computer. So go ahead and update your CD but at no time did anyone say it was okay to use it for this project... lol

thequicksilver
Apr 5, 2006, 08:09 AM
I'm speechless.

This is the best thing Apple could have done. Legitimise Windows running on the Mac, make it run properly with real drivers, and give users who want a Mac but can't let go of Windows no more excuses not to go for the Mac.

Brilliant.

MacSA
Apr 5, 2006, 08:10 AM
Assuming you have that copy of XP that came with your PC and you want to update it to Service Pack 2.
http://www.helpwithwindows.com/WindowsXP/winxp-sp2-bootcd.html

It is illegal to use it on both computers at the same time and if it is an OEM copy it may even be illegal to use on any other computer. So go ahead and update your CD but at no time did anyone say it was okay to use it for this project... lol

I only have Windows ME anyway lol.........

gauchogolfer
Apr 5, 2006, 08:10 AM
It looks like XP SP2 could be installed on an external drive, then accessed via Option key at startup. This might be a nice way to give it a try without risking valuable data.



Also, a nitpick with the thread title " Apple supports Windows"

From the article, as given by rdowns:


"Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple's superior hardware now that we use Intel processors," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing.

iMeowbot
Apr 5, 2006, 08:12 AM
Doesn't it seem like a hassel to have to reboot just to use your Windows app's? I would much rather run Windows (in a window) in OS X like I currently do with Virtual PC. I thought I read once, that now that we've gone Intel, we should be able to run Virtual PC at close to native speeds :confused:
The main issue with virtualization is the lack of video acceleration that just about all such packages seem to have in common. That's a problem for gamers and users of high-end "serious" graphics software alike.

rosalindavenue
Apr 5, 2006, 08:13 AM
After all, it has been out for twenty minutes now-- anyone?

DeSnousa
Apr 5, 2006, 08:15 AM
I would expect it to run natively, so comparable to another similar PC.

MacQuest
Apr 5, 2006, 08:17 AM
I didn't have time to read through the comments yet to see if this has been posted yet but, [b]CHECK OUT APPLE'S STOCK [AAPL][b] as this news is getting out.

It's gone up over $3 already and they keep showing the ticker symbol LITERALLY every 10 seconds or so and it just keeps climbing!!! :D

aristobrat
Apr 5, 2006, 08:18 AM
I thought gaming was a no-no using the "non-Apple" way of putting Windows on your Mac because (except for the mini), they couldn't get the video drivers to work.

I'm assuming that Apple fixed that in their release. hope hope hope hope hope

MacsRgr8
Apr 5, 2006, 08:19 AM
Wow.... didn't expect this!!! :eek:

Going to try it on my Mac mini Core Duo tonight!!

:cool:

njmac
Apr 5, 2006, 08:20 AM
hahahah all those people searching forever for a way to install windows and all those countless hours gone to waste by Apple doing it themselves

hahaha! :D and even the money that was put up! I bet the guy who won the money was glad he did it in time.

smokeyboi
Apr 5, 2006, 08:22 AM
Oh man...this is awesome! So I can play Tomb Raider Legend on my MacBook Pro? I was gonna go out and buy the Xbox 360 just to play that game...now I guess I don't have to anymore! :eek: yay

someone please try playing a game after you install windowsxp?

ifjake
Apr 5, 2006, 08:22 AM
let's get this on the front page.

BlizzardBomb
Apr 5, 2006, 08:24 AM
let's get this on the front page.

The news only just got out! Give them time :p

nesbitt_a
Apr 5, 2006, 08:25 AM
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries.

Lol, I love the humour on Apple.com!

mkrishnan
Apr 5, 2006, 08:28 AM
Life is good. :)

thejadedmonkey
Apr 5, 2006, 08:28 AM
Happy 30th Apple!

tektonnic
Apr 5, 2006, 08:28 AM
hahaha! :D and even the money that was put up! I bet the guy who won the money was glad he did it in time.

Don't you think Apple did this (amoung other reasons) to allow a legitimate way before the illegal flood gates opened and mac users started 'DIY' Windows?

Im shocked, I feel sick, I'm gonna have a lie down.

Cabbit
Apr 5, 2006, 08:29 AM
well the driver cd has the ati driver so game sould work just fine. but no isight or remote contol support

iMeowbot
Apr 5, 2006, 08:32 AM
Don't you think Apple did this (amoung other reasons) to allow a legitimate way before the illegal flood gates opened and mac users started 'DIY' Windows?
How so? Boot Camp won't be able to tell a pirated copy of XP from a real one.

njmac
Apr 5, 2006, 08:32 AM
You have to reboot into windows. I don't think Apple wants fast user-type switching for windows - that would be too easy!

ifjake
Apr 5, 2006, 08:33 AM
actually you might want to change the title of this thread.

Be sure to get this right, or you could erase your Mac files accidentally. Remember, Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows.

MacSA
Apr 5, 2006, 08:33 AM
10.5 Leopard is going be amazing.

njmac
Apr 5, 2006, 08:34 AM
actually you might want to change the title of this thread.

When this thread hits the front page it will be given a proper title. Just give 'em a little time.

Chaszmyr
Apr 5, 2006, 08:35 AM
10.5 Leopard is going be amazing.

So I'm sure everyone noticed that Boot Camp is a beta of a feature in Leopard, but right now it doesn't really seem OS dependent. I think this is just the first step of a virtual Windows environment, personally.

GoCubsGo
Apr 5, 2006, 08:37 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but how is this good? Isn't the whole reason why we're supposed to "hate" windows is because it's a crap OS anyway open to so many viruses and such...how will this affect the mac computing environment??

aristobrat
Apr 5, 2006, 08:38 AM
well the driver cd has the ati driver so game sould work just fine. but no isight or remote contol support
This I can live with.

I've been sitting on the edge about getting a MacBook Pro. If there aren't any problems reported after a few days, this release from Apple will have pushed me over to the "gotta get it now!" side. :)

BlizzardBomb
Apr 5, 2006, 08:39 AM
No Media Center support though. Hopefully this means Leopard's Front Row will have all the features of Media Center and more. :)

jer2eydevil88
Apr 5, 2006, 08:41 AM
No Media Center support though. Hopefully this means Leopard's Front Row will have all the features of Media Center and more. :)

It is likely that the hack of putting both MCE2005 disc's on one DVD to install will still work with this, it just won't be the solution of choice for most who participate in the beta.

MacRumors
Apr 5, 2006, 08:41 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple posted (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) a new product called "Boot Camp" Beta which will come standard with Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard). The new software allows users to dual-boot Mac OS X and Windows XP.

More and more people are buying and loving Macs. To make this choice simply irresistible, Apple will include technology in the next major release of Mac OS X, Leopard, that lets you install and run the Windows XP operating system on your Mac. Called Boot Camp (for now), you can download a public beta today.


Windows XP is not included, so users will have to purchase it seperately. Current users need the latest version of Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) and the latest firmware updates.

iflipper
Apr 5, 2006, 08:42 AM
Civ IV. That's all I care about!

Mindfield
Apr 5, 2006, 08:43 AM
Hell just froze over :eek:

zapp
Apr 5, 2006, 08:43 AM
Saw it a minute ago, some links are still dead, will be installing later this evening. I am running the onmac hack right now, interesting to see the difference.

kaeptn
Apr 5, 2006, 08:43 AM
Hi!
I just found this on the apple website.
This is awesome! Great!
Thank you Apple. And now bring out the new Macbooks. Otherwise I can't use Boot Camp! :)

Bye,
Fritz

kwajo.com
Apr 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
wow hell froze over

good move but I won't use it. I'll still to either no windows or virtualization. I don't want Windows to run un-isolated on the same system or hard drive as my Mac or any main system for that matter. Keep windows contained and I'm fine with it

beige matchbox
Apr 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
:eek:

all i need now is a nice intel powermac and i'm set :D Can sell a good few machines then :cool:

ebunton
Apr 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
wow

just waiting for the halflife 2 benchmarks now

miloblithe
Apr 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
I wonder how much more difficult it will be to get both OSX and Windows running at the same time. It'd be a lot more convenient that way. This is still good for games though, unless there are a lot of problems on that front.

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
Wow. Steve Jobs is a genius !!! Fricking too good !!

Damn, I now I gotta buy the intel mac when leopard comes around..

DPazdanISU
Apr 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
Here's a tidbit from Marketwatch:

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B8CF707F6%2D88A6%2D44B5%2D930B%2D7E09B6DA22A5%7D&siteid=mktw&dist=

:eek:

Heart Break Kid
Apr 5, 2006, 08:44 AM
well bloody hell

guess i gotta fork over $3000 for a nice shiny maxed out MBP

lifeboy001
Apr 5, 2006, 08:45 AM
That's it, I'm officially buying the first intel iBook that comes off the line (soon i hope!)

This opens up the other half of the world to mac users. Finally something useful.

Roy Hobbs
Apr 5, 2006, 08:45 AM
It looks like XP SP2 could be installed on an external drive, then accessed via Option key at startup. This might be a nice way to give it a try without risking valuable data.



Also, a nitpick with the thread title " Apple supports Windows"

From the article, as given by rdowns:


According to the BootCamp Install PDF, the XP partition muct be on the Startup drive

Josh396
Apr 5, 2006, 08:45 AM
Wow I never thought I would see this happen. However I think it could be good news. It can only increase Apple's market share so from a business stand point it's genius. I'll be interested to see how the graphics card drivers are.

BlizzardBomb
Apr 5, 2006, 08:45 AM
I wonder how much more difficult it will be to get both OSX and Windows running at the same time. It'd be a lot more convenient that way. This is still good for games though, unless there are a lot of problems on that front.

Well the hopefully the graphics drivers are good and we can run some demanding games on the iMac and MacBook Pro.

mark88
Apr 5, 2006, 08:46 AM
Saw it a minute ago, some links are still dead, will be installing later this evening. I am running the onmac hack right now, interesting to see the difference.

Isn't the major difference that you don't have to reinstall OS X? as you do for the onmac method.

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 08:46 AM
It's a beta, I know. But just to let it out:


Even after installling the Macintosh Drivers CD, the Apple Remote Control (IR), Apple Wireless (Bluetooth) keyboard or mouse, Apple USB Modem, MacBook Pro's sudden motion sensor, MacBook Pro's ambient light sensor, and built-in iSight camera will not function correctly when running Windows.

williamsonrg
Apr 5, 2006, 08:46 AM
Now I can finally convince my parents to buy a Mac. Personally, I have never found the need to run Windows, but that's just me.

This will lead to more users of OS X, I think, not fewer. People who have been reluctant will be convinced to switch, and once they see how much better OS X is...

JZ Wire
Apr 5, 2006, 08:46 AM
Holy CRAP!! I really never thought id see this....at least not now. :eek:
:cool:

jer2eydevil88
Apr 5, 2006, 08:46 AM
After all, it has been out for twenty minutes now-- anyone?

20 minutes out and you can try it on a Macbook which if I believe the marketing hype its really 4 times faster than my PB is so this install should only take 50 nanoseconds! If it takes any longer I want 50 pages of benchmarks done!

sunfast
Apr 5, 2006, 08:47 AM
Are there any bad points to Apple embracing XP like this? Tell me this isn't the start of Dvorak prediction coming true.:confused:

Oryan
Apr 5, 2006, 08:47 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but how is this good? Isn't the whole reason why we're supposed to "hate" windows is because it's a crap OS anyway open to so many viruses and such...how will this affect the mac computing environment??

Because there has been a demonstrated demand by consumers to have both Mac OS X and Windows installed on their Intel Mac. Many people would love to have a Mac, but are required to use Windows for work or already have a large investment in Windows only software. This is great news for those people. If you have no desire to install Windows on your Mac, then don't and you won't have to worry about any ill effects of Windows.

mark88
Apr 5, 2006, 08:47 AM
People who use laptops for work and need both operating systems are going to be buying new Intel Mac laptops pretty soon I think.

aristobrat
Apr 5, 2006, 08:47 AM
Keeping windows on a virtual disk would be my first preference, but until there's a good virtualization solution, this is way more convenient for me than having to use my god-awful PIII Windows laptop that I've been keeping around just for the Windows things I have to do.

jdechko
Apr 5, 2006, 08:48 AM
Is there any word on whether or not this is the same code used for the competition? If it is, I think this is good for that... I mean, there was one file that was messed up after an update that the user had to bless. So if apple has released this code, that would mean that there wouldn't be any glitches after a 10.4/5.x update.

Also, is there any word or indication that Apple had this solution available from the start, and decided to see what we came up with before releasing it, or is this something that has just come up since the onmac competition has ended?

MacGuy88
Apr 5, 2006, 08:48 AM
SWEET!!!

And I'm guessing that means Leopard will come out sooner than we expect too.

Stridder44
Apr 5, 2006, 08:48 AM
http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/01/nik/Victory.jpg

WOOHOO!!!

iVelocity
Apr 5, 2006, 08:48 AM
:eek: That is pant-wettingly exciting!

I'll only need one MacBook Pro to have both OSes to support my clients.
All hail Apple!

steve_hill4
Apr 5, 2006, 08:48 AM
Oh yeah, I'm trying this out on a works machine tomorrow, (don't want Windows on this one for the time being).

petej
Apr 5, 2006, 08:49 AM
Sadly the profanity filter prevents me from expressing my true shock at this news. Big thumbs up to apple for this. Work forces me to use XP. Now I can take both XP and Mac on one machine not 2 and have them running at decent speeds. Would prefer to see XP safe and sound in a virtual shell but I'm sure something better is on its way for Leopard. Can't wait til WWDC for the preview.

iMeowbot
Apr 5, 2006, 08:49 AM
Pardon my ignorance, but how is this good? Isn't the whole reason why we're supposed to "hate" windows is because it's a crap OS anyway open to so many viruses and such...how will this affect the mac computing environment??
It's a "bad" thing for those with strong OS religion, I suppose, but it's all good for Apple. Customers on the fence no longer need to fear that they won't find equivalents for their favorite programs, they now have a security blanket. Those who decide that OS X is not for them no longer need to return their Macs.

Apple will need to work hard to make sure that there is a good supply of enticing OS X-only software, but they have always needed to do that anyway.

nostrum
Apr 5, 2006, 08:49 AM
Its worth buying a MBP for. (but I'll still wait for the 12inch or 13 inch widescreen to come out first.)

stefman
Apr 5, 2006, 08:49 AM
This is great, but how different is it from those guys that had managed to boot a MacIntel with XP a few weeks ago?

Is it just a difference from "supported" and "unsupported"?

Thanks for enlightening me:D

sushi
Apr 5, 2006, 08:49 AM
Hell just froze over :eek:
Damn, where is my jacket! :eek:

Good news. Should definitely help increase the market share a bit. :D

kwajo.com
Apr 5, 2006, 08:50 AM
I really hope this doesn't limit developers from making mac versions of their programs, that is my ultimate fear

azzurri000
Apr 5, 2006, 08:50 AM
I was afraid I might have to buy a windows machine for the new program I'm applying to at college, but no more! Thank god. Now I, too, will be able to enjoy the mac's beautiful aesthetics.

sonictonic
Apr 5, 2006, 08:50 AM
Unfrickingbelievable! Please forgive my ignorance... (I am only a month old switcher!) but:

Do you have to have an Intel based Mac to do this? :confused:

I have a G4 iBook I bought in late February, running 10.4.5... will Boot Camp work on it?


EDIT: Answered myself, looked it up on Apple's Boot Camp Site. :-P Looks like I will be puttin my very loved iBook on eBay for the new iBook (someday when it comes out hehe)

840quadra
Apr 5, 2006, 08:50 AM
This is a great addition, and for me a strong lure to move to intel when the Powermac (or whatever it will be called) series gets to REV-B of it's intel run.

I am currently happy with my PPC systems and do not feel that they are slow, however having a stronger user base using Apple hardware (because it can do more) will be a nice thing.

I am also hoping that the virtualization and or Emulation (a touchy subject) will be soon to arrive to the intel systems too. Dual boot is highly interesting, however I don't want to have to "reboot" to run XP or FreeBSD, I want to simply load a Virtual session, and have both or all systems running at the same time.

840

w_parietti22
Apr 5, 2006, 08:51 AM
:eek:

I never thought Apple would do it themselves.

So wait, this solution works with PPC macs too?

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 08:51 AM
Unfrickingbelievable! Please forgive my ignorance... (I am only a month old switcher!) but:

Do you have to have an Intel based Mac to do this? :confused:

I have a G4 iBook I bought in late February, running 10.4.5... will Boot Camp work on it?

Only on Intel Macs.. Good way for them to make more sales.

bluefire75
Apr 5, 2006, 08:51 AM
Something to keep in mind though if you plan on installing this:

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B8CF707F6%2D88A6%2D44B5%2D930B%2D7E09B6DA22A5%7D&siteid=mktw&dist=

"The company (Apple) said the software is a preview version licensed for use on a trial basis for a limited time. Apple also said it won't provide support for installing or running Boot Camp and noted it doesn't sell or support Windows software."

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 08:51 AM
Do you have to have an Intel based Mac to do this? :confused:


Yes.

jer2eydevil88
Apr 5, 2006, 08:52 AM
hrrmmm how is this solution for dual booting between OS X and Linux?

vlaleb
Apr 5, 2006, 08:52 AM
The only safe way to run Windows is in the virtual machine. I'll wait for VirtualPC or use Qemu.
On the second thought, there is no safe way to run Windows. ;)

Vlad

tumbler
Apr 5, 2006, 08:52 AM
This is the most exciting news I have heard in a while! I will absolutely be buying a new intel Mac once the full lineup is out.

nataku
Apr 5, 2006, 08:52 AM
Are there any bad points to Apple embracing XP like this? Tell me this isn't the start of Dvorak prediction coming true.:confused:

Technically... yes. This could be what Dvorak was talking about. It does scare me a little bit but hopefully Apple just wants to attract would-be Mac users to increase their market share. However, if Apple does end up like Dvorak predicted... I swear I will get angry.

zakatov
Apr 5, 2006, 08:52 AM
holy **** the stock is going up! 6.6% and rising

steve_hill4
Apr 5, 2006, 08:52 AM
SWEET!!!

And I'm guessing that means Leopard will come out sooner than we expect too.
I hoping that come Christmas I will be using Leopard. Oh well, I hope it will support Vista when it's released too. That would be the only thing that would tempt me to install it on this machine.

BrewsterMccloud
Apr 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
Gee, I guess I can finally think about replacing my PowerMac 6100 DOS Compatible running Mac OS8.1 + Windows 3.1. (Yes, Apple really did used to sell machines that dual-booted MacOS and Windows.)

oingoboingo
Apr 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
Again, I think this will mark the beginning of a very tough period for Mac specialist game publishers. Now there is an Apple-blessed method of conveniently dual booting into the world's premier gaming console, Windows XP. Why would anyone apart from a few diehard greybeards wait for a native OS X port of a game to be produced, when they can run (now with full graphics and sound driver support) the Windows XP version today.

Platform
Apr 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
Included Amenities
For your convenience, Boot Camp burns a CD with all the Mac-specific drivers for Windows:
Graphics
Networking
Audio
AirPort wireless
Bluetooth
The Eject key (on Apple keyboards)
Brightness control for built-in displays
This CD also installs a Startup Disk control panel for Windows. To find it, look for Startup Disk in the Performance and Maintenance section of the Windows XP Control Panel. See the Installation & Setup Guide for more details

Apple.com

Drivers and everything....:eek:

This is great...but I have a G5 :o

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
I am also hoping that the virtualization and or Emulation (a touchy subject) will be soon to arrive to the intel systems too.

That will never happen, atleast I think. Can't say never to anything apple does.

But from business point, it would instantly kill the whole mac platform for software. The decent middle ground is, reboot to run windows app. so that if that software is available natively for mac, you would buy it rather than just emulate it from your windows copy.

Sam*
Apr 5, 2006, 08:53 AM
Would you be able to use a two button mouse? like a pc mouse when running windows?

Cause i bloody hate apple one button mice

dmcgann
Apr 5, 2006, 08:54 AM
Anyone know if itll run at native speeds??

bluefire75
Apr 5, 2006, 08:54 AM
I'm more interested in this statement:

"The company (Apple) said the software is a preview version licensed for use on a trial basis for a limited time."

840quadra
Apr 5, 2006, 08:54 AM
Would you be able to use a two button mouse? like a pc mouse when running windows?

Cause i bloody hate apple one button mice

When was the last time you have been to the Apple store, or been to their Website? Look up Mighty Mouse, and YES your Mighty mouse works 100% with Windows, XP, 98, and 2000. I use mine on my dell sometimes, as I like the form MUCH better then my Microsoft Intelimouse ;) .


holy **** the stock is going up! 6.6% and rising

Holy off topic Batman !

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
This is amazing news. AAPL is up 5% already. This is it...everyone said that the hack from a couple weeks ago was too heavy for your average novice to use...this will make it painless. No OS X reinstall (it partitions on the fly), no firmware hacks...everyone who said "I'd get a MBP if only it ran Windows!" will now be lining up.

Up next: Virtualization!

EDIT: Poor Steve...missed the $13k bounty by only two weeks ; )

adamfilip
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
HOLY *****

i just cant believe it!

is it april 1st again?

sushi
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
So wait, this solution works with PPC macs too?
No, per the Apple page you need an Intel-based Mac.

Here is an extract:

What you’ll need
- Mac OS X Tiger v10.4.6 (check Software Update)
- The latest Firmware update (check Support Downloads)
- 10GB free hard disk space
- An Intel-based Mac
- A blank recordable CD
- A printer for the instructions (You’ll want to print them before installing Windows, really.)
- A bona fide installation disc for Microsoft Windows XP, Service Pack 2, Home or Professional (No multi-disc, upgrade or Media Center versions.)

iBrow
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
Thank you Apple. :)

I'll be switching to a Intel Mac when Leopard comes out, And ill finally dump the Windows box in the bin. :D

iMeowbot
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
Anyone know if itll run at native speeds??
Yes, absolutely. This is honest to goodness native Windows with proper device drivers and everything.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
Again, I think this will mark the beginning of a very tough period for Mac specialist game publishers. Now there is an Apple-blessed method of conveniently dual booting into the world's premier gaming console, Windows XP. Why would anyone apart from a few diehard greybeards wait for a native OS X port of a game to be produced, when they can run (now with full graphics and sound driver support) the Windows XP version today.

Because not everyone has a copy of Windows XP SP2. This Boot Camp is aimed at professionals and enthusiests.

adamfilip
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
Anyone know if itll run at native speeds??

yes geeze .. its booting regular windows..

kwajo.com
Apr 5, 2006, 08:55 AM
I'm not pleased, mainly because I'm concerned about viruses and the negative implications it might have for software development for the mac OS. I mean I can see a few lazy developers saying "why bother making a Mac version, they can run windows now anyway." I doubt I'll use Boot Camp, I'd rather have a more solid way of isolating Windows from my system, like the Virtual PC drivefiles or whatever they are called

al3000
Apr 5, 2006, 08:56 AM
Sell-out! :D

It was bound to happen sooner or later...

For me there are no real benefits, but I should imagine people who rely on XP for work etc will be pleased.

Stridder44
Apr 5, 2006, 08:56 AM
Included Amenities
For your convenience, Boot Camp burns a CD with all the Mac-specific drivers for Windows:
Graphics
Networking
Audio
AirPort wireless
Bluetooth
The Eject key (on Apple keyboards)
Brightness control for built-in displays

From the Apple Boot Camp page. So does this mean Graphics acceleration/drivers too!?

zakatov
Apr 5, 2006, 08:56 AM
Holy off topic Batman !
how the hell is it off topic? ^^that is off topic

on topic: let the virus-laden macs era commence!

syklee26
Apr 5, 2006, 08:56 AM
as good of a release as this is for US mac users, this is a major development as far as Asian market is concerned. The biggest problem with using mac in Asian country has been that, because Asian developers (especially web developers) relied heavily on windows-based programs, a lot of the websites didn't work on mac.

with this release, a lot of Asians will be interested in mac now that it can use mac to get on to windows. This was especially the case in Korea, where people just couldn't use mac due to heavy reliance on IE based web designing.

what I wanna know is how PC games would run on macs now. if it runs well, then I might consider selling imac and get intel powermac.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Apr 5, 2006, 08:56 AM
I am also hoping that the virtualization and or Emulation (a touchy subject) will be soon to arrive to the intel systems too.

I wouldn't totally count that out. Here's why. Apple needed to do this ASAP. With all these "hack the mac" contests to boot Windows, Apple needed to step up and say "this is the best way to do it. It'll work for sure". So, i see it as a stop gap. Virtualization might also be included in Leopard but not being released until WWDC. If Apple can "sandbox" Windows while running it virtually, that would rock!

bluefire75
Apr 5, 2006, 08:57 AM
While I praise Apple for doing this, I'm not going to install Windows. They made it very clear, you install Windows you adopt all of Window's issues, which defeats the purpose and reason of my switch. Besides, my intel mac does everything above and beyond what I need it to do.

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 08:57 AM
Holy off topic Batman !

That's totally topical...the stock price is jumping because of this news.

Chewy
Apr 5, 2006, 08:57 AM
I'd love it if someone could host the Windows drivers for the keyboard :D

Ace25
Apr 5, 2006, 08:57 AM
This is my favorite part of the Apple Boot Camp page:

"EFI and BIOS
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries."

This is scary part of the Apple Boot Camp page (why does nobody seem to care about this??):

"Word to the Wise
Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes."

Stridder44
Apr 5, 2006, 08:58 AM
EFI and BIOS
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries.

Also straight from the Apple page! LOL!

BenRoethig
Apr 5, 2006, 08:58 AM
This is great, but how different is it from those guys that had managed to boot a MacIntel with XP a few weeks ago?

Is it just a difference from "supported" and "unsupported"?

Thanks for enlightening me:D

Apple's the one working on it. Nobody knows the Mac or their own hardware better than them. For Gamers, business people, or those who need that one windows program, this is huge.

BTW, any bets on when the irrational "I don't windows junk running on Macs" posts will begin?

nostrum
Apr 5, 2006, 08:58 AM
It does raise an interesting issue though. If people start using this technology on their Macs, and it becomes quite widespread, why bother writing software for Macs? Could it lead to the death of the Mac software industry and ultimately of OS X?

zakatov
Apr 5, 2006, 08:59 AM
From the Apple Boot Camp page. So does this mean Graphics acceleration/drivers too!?

yes, but we're still not sure how well optimized they are. In the PC world it is a continuos process with many driver revisions. So either apple lets us use native drivers or risk seeing crappy frame rates in games due to their unoptimized drivers.

tcmcam
Apr 5, 2006, 09:00 AM
the GOOD:

1. It stops all of these "hacked" solutions to dual boot Windows on a Mac. Apple provides a simple (but not very sexy) solution that has good official driver support for Windows.

2. Part of my business runs a demo program that we sell that runs on Windows only. Now my "demo machine" can be my Mac Laptop too! Only one machine to lug around. This is cool.

3. My hunch is you could make a 3rd partition, format it as FAT and use it as a "data sharing" space that both the MacOS and WinXP could see.

the WEAK:
1. It's not a virtual machine. There are some caveats (don't pick the wrong drive or Windows will reformat your Mac!!

2. No real "data sharing" because it's not running in a window (no shared devices, clipboard).

3. It's still Windows, so now I have to worry about Virus Patches, SpyWare, and all that other junk. Just the thought of that junk on my MBP hard drive gives me the willies.....

Wouldn't it be nice if Leopard had Virtualization. But I don't think Apple ever wants to deal with the support issues there....

mark88
Apr 5, 2006, 09:00 AM
While I praise Apple for doing this, I'm not going to install Windows. They made it very clear, you install Windows you adopt all of Window's issues, which defeats the purpose and reason of my switch. Besides, my intel mac does everything above and beyond what I need it to do.

No one says you have to connect to the internet while using windows if that's what you're worried about.

aristobrat
Apr 5, 2006, 09:00 AM
It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.

Apple's always been up-front about the fact that its computers can run Windows. Before, it was thru Virtual PC. Now it's dual booting.

Honestly, I think more people will be comfortable with Virtual PC than dual booting, so if Virtual PC didn't stop software makers from writing for Mac, dual booting shouldn't cause them too much grief. (Hopefully!) :)

Platform
Apr 5, 2006, 09:00 AM
Apple on Windows XP and Vista

Boot camp web-page:

EFI and BIOS
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries.

They just had to do that didn't they :D

Jon the Heretic
Apr 5, 2006, 09:00 AM
This is great, but how different is it from those guys that had managed to boot a MacIntel with XP a few weeks ago?

Is it just a difference from "supported" and "unsupported"?


I know modern Mac users don't value usability as much as us old timers (the MacOS X Finder is still anemic after all of this time, and you guys didn't even blink when Apple dropped Classic and the ability to run over 20,000 older Mac apps...whatever...), but this solution from Apple will be MUCH more usable: Easier to Install, easier to use once installed, and drivers!! The internet hack we have all seen suffered from no accelerated video drivers, making the Windows Boot a bit of a pyrrhic victory (if I can't run a full speed Windows game, I'd rather boot XP inside of MacOS X).

This is just a beta, and now that it is supported, it will be better, more reliable over time. With Leopard, you might not even need to do anything special; it will just be an option.

Having Apple-supported XP drivers may be good news for the virtualization crowd as well. I imagine these drivers will make running XP apps inside of MacOS X better as well, as soon as someone figures out to how to best leverage them for that purpose.

Malcster
Apr 5, 2006, 09:00 AM
Whoa, didnt expect this! downloading to go on my MBP tonight =)

So they raised 13k for nothing for the xponmac contest? ;)

mnkeybsness
Apr 5, 2006, 09:00 AM
From the Boot Camp page...
Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes.

Please listen to the warning so we don't have to deal with people saying that their Mac got a virus because of Windows and now it is broken.

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 09:01 AM
Imagine them announcing this news on April 1st !!

30 year anniversary and april fools.. a huge PR move missed out:(

1macker1
Apr 5, 2006, 09:01 AM
This is a win for both MS and Apple, but i'm sure Dell is pretty peeved.

iBrow
Apr 5, 2006, 09:01 AM
From the Apple Boot Camp page. So does this mean Graphics acceleration/drivers too!?

Yep :D

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303572

What is included on the Macintosh Driver CD?

The Macintosh Drivers CD includes drivers to support these within Windows XP:

* Intel Chip Set Software (6.2.1)
* ATI Graphics (8.24.0.0)
* Intel Integrated Graphics (6.14.10.4512)
* Marvel Yukon Ethernet (8.49.2.3)
* SigmaTel Audio (1.0.4889.0 nd375 cp1)
* SigmaTel Audio proto_A2 (1.0.4889.0 nd375 cp1)
* Atheros 802.11 wireless (AirPort) (4.2.2.4)
* Broadcom Wireless (4.10.40.0)
* Apple Bluetooth module (1.0.0.1)
* Apple Keyboard Eject Key (1.0.0.1)
* Apple Keyboard Brightness (for computers with built-in displays) (1.0.0.1)
* Startup Disk Control Panel for Windows XP (1.0.0.1)

Stella
Apr 5, 2006, 09:02 AM
Very unexpected... Excellent stuff.

I'm glad that Apple are even providing drivers - so your mac doesn't overheat etc.

Oh, I wish I had an MacBook Pro...

jer2eydevil88
Apr 5, 2006, 09:02 AM
Some quickies for people playing with this already:

What are the games like?
What is the solution for only having one mouse button? Macbook Pro owners did Apple supply a second button driver to let you use the ctrl button like you do in OS X?

Linux? Is it possible to use Linux with this bootloader?

BenRoethig
Apr 5, 2006, 09:02 AM
No, per the Apple page you need an Intel-based Mac.

Here is an extract:

What you’ll need
- Mac OS X Tiger v10.4.6 (check Software Update)
- The latest Firmware update (check Support Downloads)
- 10GB free hard disk space
- An Intel-based Mac
- A blank recordable CD
- A printer for the instructions (You’ll want to print them before installing Windows, really.)
- A bona fide installation disc for Microsoft Windows XP, Service Pack 2, Home or Professional (No multi-disc, upgrade or Media Center versions.)

Too bad MCE isn't supported. That's on of the areas that Windows has over the Mac and only because Front Row doesn't have a PVR program...yet.

micvog
Apr 5, 2006, 09:03 AM
I am also hoping that the virtualization and or Emulation (a touchy subject) will be soon to arrive to the intel systems too.

I agree. Look at this paragraph:

More and more people are buying and loving Macs. To make this choice simply irresistible, Apple will include technology in the next major release of Mac OS X, Leopard, that lets you install and run the Windows XP operating system on your Mac. Called Boot Camp (for now), you can download a public beta today.

Why wouldn't Apple say "dual-boot" instead of "install and run" with Leopard, and why would it be called Boot Camp "for now"? I think this is because Leopard will allow for virtualization, and Boot Camp is merely to test Windows on Mac hardware (drivers, etc.).

Ace25
Apr 5, 2006, 09:03 AM
It does raise an interesting issue though. If people start using this technology on their Macs, and it becomes quite widespread, why bother writing software for Macs? Could it lead to the death of the Mac software industry and ultimately of OS X?


I don't see this happening. It is a VERY bold move by Apple. They are saying we'll run these two OS's head-to-head and see which one comes out on top. This will create so many switchers that will learn to love OS X, that developers may stop writing code for Windows (eventually)...

lopresmb
Apr 5, 2006, 09:03 AM
this really is the craziest thing that Apple had done in a while. Wow, pretty cool stuff.

MattG
Apr 5, 2006, 09:04 AM
Haha...

From Apple's list of "What You'll Need":

A printer for the instructions (You’ll want to print them before installing Windows, really.)

iSee
Apr 5, 2006, 09:04 AM
...
EDIT: Poor Steve...missed the $13k bounty by only two weeks ; )

Hah! I was thinking the same thing... It's funny, but the hackers were even faster than Apple. In fact, they probably forced Apple to release this sooner than originally planned.

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 09:04 AM
My hunch is you could make a 3rd partition, format it as FAT and use it as a "data sharing" space that both the MacOS and WinXP could see.

Does this mean that we can't see or access the files that are on the os x partition when running on windows??

nicola
Apr 5, 2006, 09:04 AM
Wow, is all I can say... In a Good way...

sunfast
Apr 5, 2006, 09:04 AM
It does raise an interesting issue though. If people start using this technology on their Macs, and it becomes quite widespread, why bother writing software for Macs? Could it lead to the death of the Mac software industry and ultimately of OS X?

Which really scares me. I hope Apple know what they are doing here.

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 09:04 AM
Bring on the BENCHMARKS!! And for the love of God: game performance!!

WeeManDan
Apr 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
Wish I had known this a week ago so my Mum could have gone Mac rather than the Dull :(

Also thinking out loud, would a Mac running Windows be at risk from the same viruses at a hardware and BIOS level? Would it simply be a case of not being able to load the Windows partition?

Dan

Village
Apr 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
This is simply too cool, not for being some great engineering feat, but because Apple is offering and supporting this feature themselves! I wish my iMac G5 were Intel, then I'd ditch my desktop PC right now. Maybe next year I'll replace my Thinkpad with a MacBook Pro. Visual Studio on a Mac would be awesome!

emotion
Apr 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
I agree. Look at this paragraph:

More and more people are buying and loving Macs. To make this choice simply irresistible, Apple will include technology in the next major release of Mac OS X, Leopard, that lets you install and run the Windows XP operating system on your Mac. Called Boot Camp (for now), you can download a public beta today.

Why wouldn't Apple say "dual-boot" instead of "install and run" with Leopard, and why would it be called Boot Camp "for now"? I think this is because Leopard will allow for virtualization, and Boot Camp is merely to test Windows on Mac hardware (drivers, etc.).

I think you're spot on with that observation.

JRM PowerPod
Apr 5, 2006, 09:06 AM
Reports coming in................

Apple market share reaches...... 8%

9%

10%

Michael Dell buys new underpants

Thinking Different is about to become the norm

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 09:06 AM
Hah! I was thinking the same thing... It's funny, but the hackers were even faster than Apple. In fact, they probably forced Apple to release this sooner than originally planned.

Probably true. They'd rather do it right themselves than have to deal with a bunch of novices destroying their macs.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Apr 5, 2006, 09:06 AM
Does this mean that we can't see or access the files that are on the os x partition when running on windows??
That is correct. Windows can't read HFS+.

Platform
Apr 5, 2006, 09:06 AM
Hah! I was thinking the same thing... It's funny, but the hackers were even faster than Apple. In fact, they probably forced Apple to release this sooner than originally planned.

Nah...this here is easier...this is done Mac style....:cool:

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 09:07 AM
Wish I had known this a week ago so my Mum could have gone Mac rather than the Dull :(

Also thinking out loud, would a Mac running Windows be at risk from the same viruses at a hardware and BIOS level? Would it simply be a case of not being able to load the Windows partition?


Dell will let you return it. And I hope that the virus issue will be confined to the win partition!

Bocheememon
Apr 5, 2006, 09:07 AM
Look what Apple wrote on EFI and Bios:

EFI and BIOS
Macs use an ultra-modern industry standard technology called EFI to handle booting. Sadly, Windows XP, and even the upcoming Vista, are stuck in the 1980s with old-fashioned BIOS. But with Boot Camp, the Mac can operate smoothly in both centuries.

Kinda funny they add support to and also slap fun at Microsofts platform.

mflat5
Apr 5, 2006, 09:07 AM
This is amazing and shocking news.

However, I'm a bit concerned regarding the status of OSX.

Perhaps human nature and the overarching Windows use would cause those to use XP and "ignore" Mac OS on the machine?

Yes, this could be a very good thing for Apple -- grab mindshare and sales. But what if... only if... those users utilize the Apple machine to use XP primarily, thus "diluting" the use of OSX? If that occurs and Apple continues with its mainstream strategies... would the OSX eventually suffer?! Would the OSX stop with its continual updates and innovation?!

Double edged sword / OS / scenario...

It's nice to have a choice, but I pray that many users (new and old) discover and continue to use OSX as their primary.

(this argument could be debated, and could be negated with Vista around the corner!)

amphi
Apr 5, 2006, 09:07 AM
os/2

remember that and what killed it?

Why on earth is anyone going to bother porting an app to OSX :confused: .

Perhaps Dvorak can see into Steve's brain.

miketcool
Apr 5, 2006, 09:07 AM
YES!!:D

Time to renew that ADC!

and, my windoze box just crumpled up like a can when I told it the news!

bluefire75
Apr 5, 2006, 09:08 AM
No one says you have to connect to the internet while using windows if that's what you're worried about.


The decisions that led to my switch to Apple has nothing to do with the internet. My confidence in Apple's machines is that I never have to worry about the "blue screen of death" that plagues Windows. I think this news is great for those who absolutely need or simply want Windows on the beautiful Mac machines. At the same time it raises alot of concerns about the stability of two different OSs running natively on one machine. No thanks, not for me.

ncoffey
Apr 5, 2006, 09:08 AM
Installing now. So far I'm at the partitioning stage, and I've already burned the CD with the drivers.

1macker1
Apr 5, 2006, 09:08 AM
I think MS will kill put a stop to this. Apple just killed VPC sales completly.

Phat Elvis
Apr 5, 2006, 09:08 AM
This is great news for Apple but I still think that it gets filed under "be careful what you wish for." The last thing that I want is to have my smooth running Mac OS get screwed up by Windows. Hopefully a partition will keep them separate.

I'm assuming that they only comment on XP (and ignore Vista) because they cannot test it on Vista. Maybe in 2008 when Vista comes out they'll run it...

josephg53
Apr 5, 2006, 09:08 AM
Does this mean the End of the Clone Wars?

iMeowbot
Apr 5, 2006, 09:09 AM
That is correct. Windows can't read HFS+.
Sure it can. There are MacDrive (http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive6/) and Macopener (http://www.dataviz.com/products/macopener/).

Stridder44
Apr 5, 2006, 09:09 AM
What the crap my original post is gone...!??!

mark88
Apr 5, 2006, 09:09 AM
the GOOD:


3. It's still Windows, so now I have to worry about Virus Patches, SpyWare, and all that other junk. Just the thought of that junk on my MBP hard drive gives me the willies......

It's not as bad as everyone makes out. Don't use IE, don't double click emails, don't use p2p, use a firewall and a virus checker and you'll be fine :-)

FWIW I never run windows update

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 09:09 AM
And I hope that the virus issue will be confined to the win partition!

Please., I run both windows and mac and I havn't seen a virus in several years. If you just don't download software from unreliable sources and not open every damn attachement from someone you don't know, you would be alright. STOP cribbing about viruses. It is just not true.

How hard it is to not run .exe that you don't trust?

1macker1
Apr 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
If I log off my post cannot be seen. WTH.
What the crap my original post is gone...!??!

Village
Apr 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
Originally Posted by nostrum
It does raise an interesting issue though. If people start using this technology on their Macs, and it becomes quite widespread, why bother writing software for Macs? Could it lead to the death of the Mac software industry and ultimately of OS X?
Which really scares me. I hope Apple know what they are doing here.

I can see the concern, but isn't the Mac hardware only half of its assets? OS X is still a compelling alternative, and if I simply wanted Windows XP, I'd settle on cheaper hardware than a PowerMac or MacBook Pro.

Roy Hobbs
Apr 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
[QUOTE=tcmcam]the GOOD:

1. It stops all of these "hacked" solutions to dual boot Windows on a Mac. Apple provides a simple (but not very sexy) solution that has good official driver support for Windows.


the WEAK:
1. It's not a virtual machine. There are some caveats (don't pick the wrong drive or Windows will reformat your Mac!!


[QUOTE]

Not sexy?? How can you have a sexy dual boot option??

Not a virtual machine is weak?? That is the biggest stregth of BootCamp, if you are dumb enough to chooses the wrong partition in the XP setup you should be messing with Boof Camp.

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
Installing now. So far I'm at the partitioning stage, and I've already burned the CD with the drivers.

Please keep us updated. And run some benchmarks and games :)

nubero
Apr 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
Technically... yes. This could be what Dvorak was talking about. It does scare me a little bit but hopefully Apple just wants to attract would-be Mac users to increase their market share. However, if Apple does end up like Dvorak predicted... I swear I will get angry.

i don't read dvorak anymore but could he have said something ike this?: if i was a windows developer and i would have played with the idea of making a mac version of my app, now i wouldn't do it anymore.

so how good is that?

and adobe? their cs2 (and all the adobe apps since maybe psd 3 and illustrator 5) are not realy optimized for mac anymore)

now i know that there is no such thing as optimized for windows since it's such rubish. but where would a software developer get the motivation from to develop its apps for os x if its not using all the new technology? quartz, coreimage, coreaudio, corevideo and the other APIs come to mind...

we know that this stuff is great. but be honest: there is not one mayor app, which uses this stuff (except apperture and motion from apple which are btw both unusable for professionals)

tcmcam
Apr 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
One ugly thought, if a Windows Virus rewrites the master partition table on the hard drive, it could toast the OSX partition as well.

Yuck, Yikes, I still hate Windows!

:eek:

BGil
Apr 5, 2006, 09:11 AM
Technically... yes. This could be what Dvorak was talking about. It does scare me a little bit but hopefully Apple just wants to attract would-be Mac users to increase their market share. However, if Apple does end up like Dvorak predicted... I swear I will get angry.

WOW!!!
All that stuff Dvorak said makes a lot more sense now. Maybe Apple is going to move to the NT kernel. I hesrd that they considered moving to NT before they decided upon NeXT as the base for their new OS.

Maybe that's why Avie left?:eek:

From what I've heard, even many Linu-zealots (read: Slashdot, OSNews) view the NT kernel as a pretty good kernel to build upon.

itsbetteronamac
Apr 5, 2006, 09:11 AM
Best news I have heard in a long time. I think it is nice to see a company embrace it customers, more than it's own beliefs. Looks like apple won't try to have windows run natively within Mac OS X. Probably feel it's too unstable, and would make OS X crash :rolleyes: Wow, this makes me think about getting a new Macbook Pro, or iMac as a home computer. I'll wait until vista though. It would be a great computer I realized for my parents and other people who want to use a mac, but because of work, have to have a PC too. Now, they don't need to have both!

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 09:11 AM
It's not as bad as everyone makes out. Don't use IE, don't double click emails, don't use p2p, use a firewall and a virus checker and you'll be fine :-)

FWIW I never run windows update

Now we just need Apple to officially make that statement so people don't screw up their macs.

Chaszmyr
Apr 5, 2006, 09:11 AM
Something just occurred to me. Maybe in Leopard, Apple will have an option to do like Fast User Switching into a Windows environment.

MacHarne
Apr 5, 2006, 09:12 AM
I wonder how Adobe will handle this.

::segue ripples::
"Well, everyone can run Windows now; let's just put that Universal Binary project on hold..."
::fade to black and original setting::

That makes me shudder. I don't have the money to get a new computer for a while; I've been working with older hardware for a long time (except for my summer 2005 12" PB purchase). An Intel Mac would be nice, but it is not in my budget at the moment.

mark88
Apr 5, 2006, 09:13 AM
The decisions that led to my switch to Apple has nothing to do with the internet. My confidence in Apple's machines is that I never have to worry about the "blue screen of death" that plagues Windows.

Have you even used XP? I have numerours machines all running XP Pro and not once in 4-5 years have I *ever* had a blue screen of anything. It's a stereotype carried over from the 95 and 98 days. ME improved alot upon error messages and such, XP went another step further.

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 09:13 AM
What does this say about the virtualization rumors for Leopard? If they offer this as a standard feature, does that mean that virtualization is out of the question for 10.5?

Little Endian
Apr 5, 2006, 09:13 AM
This is Great!! now people can run the Windows versions of Adobe products and other equivalent Apps that are not UB yet and see how much faster they are on Windows. I also forgot Games why wait for a possible port to OSX when you can just boot into Windows and play it now with better performance than would be possible with a native OSX port. In fact why should anyone Develop for OSX anymore. OSX for iLife, Windows for everything else.:rolleyes:

Sense the Sarcasm? Really this is great news and I welcome it. However this just means that Apple and it's third party developers had better be "burning the midnight oil" to get OSX and Apps running at speeds equivalent or better than using similar apps on Windows. I'm just worried that with Apple making it this easy to run Windows it might eventually lead to Developers getting Cheap and not porting to OSX in the first place.

Worse yet is that Apple and developers are Under more pressure than ever to improve OSX performance on intel. In the past we could blame poor performance on Motorola/IBM, poor ports, and optimizations of applications for our hardware platform. Now with being able to run both Windows and OSX on the same exact hardware it is now easier than ever to compare performance of both operating systems without any hardware differences. Bad thing is that when OSX fails to perform in a certain area or Application performance is slower on OSX it now places the blame on the very essence of the Macintosh which is the OS itself.

Will all developers see the need to make their applications as optimized for OSX as their Windows Counterparts? How long will it take?

Platform
Apr 5, 2006, 09:13 AM
Something just occurred to me. Maybe in Leopard, Apple will have an option to do like Fast User Switching into a Windows environment.

Virtualization technology ;)

iMeowbot
Apr 5, 2006, 09:13 AM
os/2

remember that and what killed it?
Why, yes! Microsoft threatened companies (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2005-07-01-msft-ibm_x.htm) who dared bundle it with pricing penalties. Microsoft had to fork over close to a billion dollars to IBM over that one.

I know that people like to think that is was the compatibility thing, but that was a distant second.

oingoboingo
Apr 5, 2006, 09:14 AM
Because not everyone has a copy of Windows XP SP2. This Boot Camp is aimed at professionals and enthusiests.

Windows XP SP2 is about as ubiquitous as oxygen, and with Apple sounding like they are going to add a Boot Camp-like feature to OS X 10.5 (either as dual booting or virtualization), it's not going to be just the enthusiasts who discover that their Intel Mac can run Windows games.

ImAlwaysRight
Apr 5, 2006, 09:14 AM
Wow. This is an amazing move on Apple's part.

I've got Virtual PC 7 w/XP Pro, which, WON'T RUN on an Intel Mac. I plan to get rid of my Mac Mini for a 13" Macbook as soon as they come out. (got the shortest path to my Apple Store planned already).

So... can I somehow install XP Pro with Boot Camp and use the XP serial number that came with VPC 7? I won't be using the VPC anymore.

iSee
Apr 5, 2006, 09:14 AM
Whoa, didnt expect this! downloading to go on my MBP tonight =)

So they raised 13k for nothing for the xponmac contest? ;)

I don't know if it was for nothing. I don't think the timing of this release is coincidental--a few weeks after xponmac. xom almost certainly influenced the timing of Apple's release of Boot Camp. It may have forced Apple to release it at all. Boot Camp may have been a backroom, only-in-case-of-emergency-but-hopefully-never kind of project (like OSX on Intel once was), but with xponmac, Pandora's box had been opened, so Apple may have decided to get on top of it rather than let the hackers dominate this branch of Apple's future.

At the very least, xponman demonstrated the intense interest people have in running XP on Macs.

Anyway, this is a GREAT thing for me (sorry, but I *have* to run some Windows software).
I'd been holding off on a new MacBook, 'til maybe the next CPU or VirtualPC for Intel Macs, but I just can't wait anymore...:)

840quadra
Apr 5, 2006, 09:15 AM
That will never happen, atleast I think. Can't say never to anything apple does.

But from business point, it would instantly kill the whole mac platform for software. The decent middle ground is, reboot to run windows app. so that if that software is available natively for mac, you would buy it rather than just emulate it from your windows copy.


I understand what you are saying, and somewhat agree with that. Apple would like to keep users happy and loyal to their products, however they also understand that not every old, current, or new software platform will be written to utilize their hardware, or OS.

They have to find a way to compromise with this, keep sales strong, and existing users in love with their products. If they fail to complete those tasks, they will watch users flock to Microsoft systems, and other hardware.

Jarbo
Apr 5, 2006, 09:16 AM
It Suddenly Seems less appealing.

phatpat88
Apr 5, 2006, 09:16 AM
hell as finally frozen over


and the secrecy at apple has certainy gotten better :)

bluefire75
Apr 5, 2006, 09:17 AM
Have you even used XP? I have numerours machines all running XP Pro and not once in 4-5 years have I *ever* had a blue screen of anything. It's a stereotype carried over from the 95 and 98 days. ME improved alot upon error messages and such, XP went another step further.


Yup, use it at work and I also use a mac at work as well. The difference, to me, is night and day. Again, just my personal preference.;)

Stridder44
Apr 5, 2006, 09:17 AM
During installation, the Windows XP installer asks me to format the Windows partition using NTFS or FAT. Which should I use?

If the partition is 32 GB or smaller, you can use either FAT or NTFS. If it's larger than 32 GB, then you can only format it using NTFS. Mac OS X can read and write FAT volumes, but only read NTFS volumes. Refer to the Windows XP documentation if you are not sure which best suits your needs.

So currently Mac OS can read and write to FAT but can only read to NTFS...anyone think this could change with 10.5 perhaps? (apparently FAT can only support up to 32GB while NTFS can support just about anything above that...although I hear NTFS is a better choice). Thoughts?

insanity381
Apr 5, 2006, 09:18 AM
OMG this is gonna be so cool!

my family switched nearly a year ago, and macs are pretty cool :p . knew you'd love me saying that. seriously, i've gotta get winxp for my next school, eton, and so i wasn't gonna be able to get a mac. but now... woohay! :D this rules!

winonmac.com (or whatever the address is) suckers!!!! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

now, I just hope they a) manage to keep covering things up so well like this that we get a macbook, tablet mac, powermac, video-bluetooth ipod all tomorrow and b) they hurry up leopard like hell!

wtmcgee
Apr 5, 2006, 09:18 AM
makes you wonder what they have in store for 10.5 - a virtual PC type app inside os x perhaps?

MacsRgr8
Apr 5, 2006, 09:19 AM
Me gonna have fun tonight! :cool:

iwitch
Apr 5, 2006, 09:20 AM
I am a new mac owner, just bought a G4 mac mini on eBay last month...I am new to the mac world but I have been lurking and reading these boards for years and this is my face right this moment :eek:

SmashHuevo
Apr 5, 2006, 09:21 AM
hahahah all those people searching forever for a way to install windows and all those countless hours gone to waste by Apple doing it themselves

My bet is that all that onmac work didn't go to waste. I bet Apple didn't want to do it, for legal reasons (e.g. accusations of reverse-engineering Windows, to figure out how EFI should emulate BIOS?) and decided to wait until someone else had figured it out.

And then bought the solution.

magi.sys
Apr 5, 2006, 09:21 AM
10.5 will have virtualization support with Intel VT.
Imagine fast user switching, but with OSes ;)
And it won't be virtualization, but native switching ;)


Ok, back to the topic.
Apple, what about Linux and Solaris!!!!

Molson
Apr 5, 2006, 09:21 AM
Some hardware features don’t work:

The following hardware features are not supported in Windows XP:
• iSight cameras
• the Apple Remote
• the Apple USB Modem
• the keyboard backlighting on MacBook Pro computers

adamfilip
Apr 5, 2006, 09:23 AM
So currently Mac OS can read and write to FAT but can only read to NTFS...anyone think this could change with 10.5 perhaps? (apparently FAT can only support up to 32GB while NTFS can support just about anything above that...although I hear NTFS is a better choice). Thoughts?

if you read the instructions apple posted you would know the answer

sunfast
Apr 5, 2006, 09:23 AM
the secrecy at apple has certainy gotten better :)

A very good point. We didn't even get a whisper of this one.

avensis087
Apr 5, 2006, 09:23 AM
WOOOOW...time for us to sit back and watch as Apple's market share creeps upward...waaaaay up! :)

mr

aristobrat
Apr 5, 2006, 09:23 AM
Some hardware features don’t work:

The following hardware features are not supported in Windows XP:
• iSight cameras
• the Apple Remote
• the Apple USB Modem
• the keyboard backlighting on MacBook Pro computers
Wonder how long til Apple releases Windows drivers for these?

If they're offically going to support Windows in 10.5, I'm sure they'll have everything working.

DTphonehome
Apr 5, 2006, 09:24 AM
Some hardware features don’t work:

The following hardware features are not supported in Windows XP:
• iSight cameras
• the Apple Remote
• the Apple USB Modem
• the keyboard backlighting on MacBook Pro computers

This is only the first release. They may continue to update the beta with new features as it develops, or maybe hold off on the FULL driver package until Leopard.

Wonder how long til Apple releases Windows drivers for these?

If they're offically going to support Windows in 10.5, I'm sure they'll have everything working.

Damn you, Aristobrat! Beat me by mere seconds!

iEric
Apr 5, 2006, 09:24 AM
that's awesome!

this just makes me want to wait until the day the powerbooks include the new OS.

JCT
Apr 5, 2006, 09:25 AM
It does raise an interesting issue though. If people start using this technology on their Macs, and it becomes quite widespread, why bother writing software for Macs? Could it lead to the death of the Mac software industry and ultimately of OS X?

No, highly doubtful --- totally abandon the user base? Mac users are not used to running out and having to buy a new machine for an OS upgrade. One of the great things about Apple. :)

They are definitely taking a "risk" -- but they are showing that they have confidence in the OS X "experience". I see this as training wheels for switchers. Buy one machine, get to experiment with OS X and all it has to offer, iLife, etc. And then, when you need to, boot over to Win XP. They're betting that over time folks will find fewer reasons to boot over to XP. It's the classic Win -> OS X switcher's experience without having to have two machines.

It certainly worked for me when I bought my iBook 3 years ago "just to play around" --- I'm typing this on the Dual 2.5 G5 I have in my office and My new MBP is on my desk as I prepare it for a business trip.

It works.

JT

freeny
Apr 5, 2006, 09:25 AM
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit™.
Whoever owns the trademark to that saying please let me know so I can buy the rights and ban its use!

DavidLeblond
Apr 5, 2006, 09:26 AM
Dear Apple,

I currently cannot afford an Intel iMac. Please stop doing things like this to further tempt me. I do not need to go into credit card debt. EBay's rules currently state I cannot sell a kidney there. Either get them to change their rules, or please take all the temptation out of your current line of computers (you seem to be doing so well doing so with all the problems with the Macbook Pro... bravo.)

Thank you,

Dave Leblond

commonpeople
Apr 5, 2006, 09:27 AM
Whoever owns the trademark to that saying please let me know so I can buy the rights and ban its use!

I think it's from the movie 'Dodgeball'.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Apr 5, 2006, 09:27 AM
Dear Apple,

I currently cannot afford an Intel iMac. Please stop doing things like this to further tempt me. I do not need to go into credit card debt. EBay's rules currently state I cannot sell a kidney there. Either get them to change their rules, or please take all the temptation out of your current line of computers (you seem to be doing so well doing so with all the problems with the Macbook Pro... bravo.)

Thank you,

Dave Leblond
LMAO!! THat is an all time classic in my book! lol

:D

stefman
Apr 5, 2006, 09:27 AM
os/2

remember that and what killed it?

Why on earth is anyone going to bother porting an app to OSX :confused: .

Perhaps Dvorak can see into Steve's brain.

It doesn't automatically mean that because you can run Windows on you Mac that you don't want to use OS X anymore. Basically, there will always be Mac OS X users...maybe now even more :D

MacPhreak
Apr 5, 2006, 09:28 AM
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit™.

Made me laugh!

And...wow, this came out of left field!

Sdashiki
Apr 5, 2006, 09:28 AM
The only safe way to run Windows is in the virtual machine. I'll wait for VirtualPC or use Qemu.
On the second thought, there is no safe way to run Windows. ;)


What he said.

Id rather have a windowed Windows running (not emulated) so i can kill it if it snaps at me like a starving child.:rolleyes:






I think that this will be neat to watch among "the masses"

When a regular shmoe can dual boot Windows as easily as any Mac software thingy (give it time) then people will finally see with their own eyes that running Windows is crap compared to OSX running on the same machine.

Kirbdog
Apr 5, 2006, 09:29 AM
When Apple anounced that OSX 10.5 would be called leapard I thought some cheesy line about using Intel processors would be marketed.
Now the leopard name makes absolute sense, Apple had this planned from the word go.

adamfilip
Apr 5, 2006, 09:29 AM
I dont get why people are saying that since it can boot windows.. developers will stop making native mac apps

its great that you can now boot into windows and use apps that are missing from osx.

I believe this will make alot of people switch as its safer.
but i also believe they will see how much better osx runs. and how much safer it is from virus and adware. that they will eventually forget about windows

sort of like classic OS9 mode.. atfirst i used classic then .. i just got rid of it. since osx did everything i needed (except quicken basic for Canadians)

I believe the opposite will happen.

if alot more people switch developers will see that people like osx and will make more software for it.. people will see osx is better and slowly drop windows.

runninmac
Apr 5, 2006, 09:29 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/61/Nowai.jpg/200px-Nowai.jpg
No Wai!!!

Wow, all apple competitors should be pooing in their pants. Now I REALLY want a sub 15 inch MacBook or MacBook Pro.

benjags
Apr 5, 2006, 09:29 AM
It does raise an interesting issue though. If people start using this technology on their Macs, and it becomes quite widespread, why bother writing software for Macs? Could it lead to the death of the Mac software industry and ultimately of OS X?

the apple counterattack might be this (from macosrumors.com)

Apple's emphasis in the 10.5 era will be on resurrecting 'Yellow Box for Windows,' a set of Cocoa (and potentially also Carbon) API's for Windows that would allow Universal Binary applications to run on Windows with a mere 150MB software package installation. And best of all, there is no extra work to be done on the developer's part to get fully native, rock-solid stable performance from their Xcode-developed Universal applications on Windows

danr_97070
Apr 5, 2006, 09:29 AM
I only have Windows ME anyway lol.........

Poor bastard...

cwedl
Apr 5, 2006, 09:30 AM
OMG I can't wait to get my 20" iMac now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

whooleytoo
Apr 5, 2006, 09:30 AM
Is this the first mention that Leopard will be previewed at WWDC? I hadn't read this before (thought it was always likely).

Also, is the Boot Camp a time-limited beta?

MacMyDay
Apr 5, 2006, 09:30 AM
Before they released this, I was wondering if it would mean software companies wouldn't bother as much with Apple products. I can't see how it can do the Mac gaming world much favours.

Jesus
Apr 5, 2006, 09:31 AM
Downloading now...

I am amazed by this, and I find it to be a very smart move.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Whistleway
Apr 5, 2006, 09:31 AM
http://www.google.com/finance?q=AAPL

Wow. 6% up. I think stock marketers are underestimating the potential.

amac4me
Apr 5, 2006, 09:33 AM
"Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple's superior hardware now that we use Intel processors," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "We think Boot Camp makes the Mac even more appealing to Windows users considering making the switch."


I've said numerous times on these forums that people are more willing to purchase Macs and Apple marketshare has been increasing the past few years. I've also said numerous times that I expect Apple's marketshare to increase dramatically over the next few years.

Today's news is validation of my views.

Can anyone say INCREASED MARKETSHARE :D

RichP
Apr 5, 2006, 09:33 AM
Is this the first mention that Leopard will be previewed at WWDC? I hadn't read this before (thought it was always likely).

Also, is the Boot Camp a time-limited beta?

It was mentioned last year, and it is limited time beta, meaning it will probably expire a few weeks, months after the release of Leopard. (which will include it)

I just cleared out my onmac WinXp solution, should have Bootcamp running soon.

Little Endian
Apr 5, 2006, 09:33 AM
http://www.google.com/finance?q=AAPL

Wow. 6% up. I think stock marketers are underestimating the potential.

I'm back in black on my Apple Position, hopefully the gains hold though.

WeeManDan
Apr 5, 2006, 09:34 AM
Yeah, on the issue of switchers I reckon JT has got it spot on. I got a G4 Mini to play with and then my IBM laptop brok (nothing to do with Windows but a dud bit of Crucial memory) anyway that is besides the point but I think after an hour or two people will be wondering why they bought that copy of xp.

But I really do hope we don't get lazy developers as well, that is far to depressing a thought

Dan

50548
Apr 5, 2006, 09:34 AM
Before they released this, I was wondering if it would mean software companies wouldn't bother as much with Apple products. I can't see how it can do the Mac gaming world much favours.

In other words, it's THE END of native software development for Mac OS, as I said before on another thread...

I know I am gonna get flak for this, but I am sure the Apple platform is through now...at least as we know it.

Those that have developed something will stay for a while...and those that haven't will NEVER port anything to the Mac.

Now if you excuse me, I will return to my Apple II, thanks very much... :eek:

dwd3885
Apr 5, 2006, 09:34 AM
it's amazing mac users hate windows, yet find this an awesome move by apple.

are you guys going to RUN windows now? Seems to me Macs have the superior OS, not the superior Hardware.

840quadra
Apr 5, 2006, 09:36 AM
I see this as training wheels for switchers.

That is a great point.

For those of us in the IT field, we now may have a way for our companies to buy us Macintosh Portable computers for work, as we can boot into Windows during work hours, and into MacOS during our personal time.

Virtualization is still the best fit for this type of duty, but having the hardware support Windows straight out of the box would is a great bargaining tool. I would love to get a MacBook Pro as opposed to a Dell or HP for work!

it's amazing mac users hate windows, yet find this an awesome move by apple.

are you guys going to RUN windows now? Seems to me Macs have the superior OS, not the superior Hardware.

Not all Macintosh users are as closed minded as you seem to think. Please explain how the Macintosh hardware is inferior to say, Dell, HP, IBM, WinBook, whenever you get a chance.

AtHomeBoy_2000
Apr 5, 2006, 09:38 AM
are you guys going to RUN windows now? Seems to me Macs have the superior OS, not the superior Hardware.

I can only speek from personal experience here. BUT, I work for a church and am desperatly trying to get us converted over to Mac, but before i can even start, there is a major sticking point.... our church directory is stored in a program that ONLY runs on WIndows. So, to convert to Mac makes this software usless to the emplyees. So, if I could dual-boot and just have a staff member boot into Windows when they need to access this program, I have won the battle. i would "win" the battle even better if I could boot windows in OS X. I have a feelign I'll have to wait until 10.5 for that.

Jesus
Apr 5, 2006, 09:38 AM
This is the best birthday present I could want from Apple, 5 days late, but still incredible.:eek:

ebunton
Apr 5, 2006, 09:38 AM
/waits for the first virus to infect Windows XP on a Mac, and spread into OSX

Stridder44
Apr 5, 2006, 09:38 AM
It doesn't automatically mean that because you can run Windows on you Mac that you don't want to use OS X anymore. Basically, there will always be Mac OS X users...maybe now even more :D


Exactly! And this whole thing makes me think of the iPod and how everyone freaked out when they ported iTunes to Windows. People will buy a Mac, install Windows (which we assume they're already used to...and by used to I mean know how to use and hate). Then one day they'll open OS X up and realize how awesome it is. Just the like the iPod's awesomeness was foreign to them, OS X will do the same.

ted124b
Apr 5, 2006, 09:39 AM
I checked on my stocks, I love how I know apple has released something new when their stock goes up almost 4 percent in 3 hours.

-wish i had a intel

MrCrowbar
Apr 5, 2006, 09:39 AM
Thx apple. It would have hurt to carry 2 laptops around. I think you will see some of my windows mashines on eBay soon.

Can't wait for the small MBP and Leopard.

PS: I think it would have looked kinda bad if Apple showed this on April 1. "Apple just got 30. To celebrate this, run windows on your Mac..."

jblodgett
Apr 5, 2006, 09:40 AM
Alright alright.. enough jubilation over this gift from iGod.

Where are the results???
Who has installed it and opened up a few PC only games????

Little Endian
Apr 5, 2006, 09:40 AM
I dont get why people are saying that since it can boot windows.. developers will stop making native mac apps

its great that you can now boot into windows and use apps that are missing from osx.

I believe this will make alot of people switch as its safer.
but i also believe they will see how much better osx runs. and how much safer it is from virus and adware. that they will eventually forget about windows

sort of like classic OS9 mode.. atfirst i used classic then .. i just got rid of it. since osx did everything i needed (except quicken basic for Canadians)

I believe the opposite will happen.

if alot more people switch developers will see that people like osx and will make more software for it.. people will see osx is better and slowly drop windows.

It costs money to develop for OSX and 95% of the world still runs Windows. Also even though OSX has a core that was designed to run X86 Apple has spent the past 7 years making it run as well as possible on PowerPC. Apple for the past decade has been encouraging it's developers to optimize for the PowerPC. Considering Windows and all apps for Windows only had to worry about optimizing for X86 the performance of Windows and it's native Apps will generally be better than OSX and native apps on X86. Do you now we where the problem is?

I have faith and hope that OSX will thrive just as you do but the opposite is also still a possibility.

asterizk
Apr 5, 2006, 09:40 AM
"Apple has no desire or plan to sell or support Windows, but many customers have expressed their interest to run Windows on Apple's superior hardware now that we use Intel processors," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "We think Boot Camp makes the Mac even more appealing to Windows users considering making the switch."

All I gotta say, is HOLY COW. I wonder if this was part of their 30th anniversary announcements, but they couldn't announce it on April 1st because of the... believability aspects of it all :)

Kirbdog
Apr 5, 2006, 09:41 AM
it's amazing mac users hate windows, yet find this an awesome move by apple.

are you guys going to RUN windows now? Seems to me Macs have the superior OS, not the superior Hardware.
I would absolutly never run windows on my personal Powerbook!!
But my dull beige box on my desk at work is going to be replaced with a Mac as soon as OSX 10.5 comes out.
I think this is where the big news is Corporate sales..

unregbaron
Apr 5, 2006, 09:42 AM
You can't be running Windows XP within a window while you have OSX as the primary os ?

You have to reboot and run the machine as though it was a PC?

milo
Apr 5, 2006, 09:42 AM
wow hell froze over

good move but I won't use it. I'll still to either no windows or virtualization. I don't want Windows to run un-isolated on the same system or hard drive as my Mac or any main system for that matter. Keep windows contained and I'm fine with it

It IS isolated. It's on a separate partition. Anyone know if the XP boot can see the OSX partition? Can it see firewire drives of either flavor?

This is great, but how different is it from those guys that had managed to boot a MacIntel with XP a few weeks ago?

Ton of differences. You don't have to reformat your drive. Install is MUCH easier. And drivers are supported for most of the hardware, you may be able to run games on all intel macs with this version.

Again, I think this will mark the beginning of a very tough period for Mac specialist game publishers. Now there is an Apple-blessed method of conveniently dual booting into the world's premier gaming console, Windows XP.

I don't agree with that, I think mac games will do just fine, they just need to be competitive with pricing and release dates. Don't forget, you need to go through the trouble of doing this and most importantly BUY XP to run PC games. Aside from that, it's a joke to call XP the premier gaming "console". PC games have been on the decline for years, the future is dedicated consoles.

Would you be able to use a two button mouse? like a pc mouse when running windows?

Um...multibutton mice are supported in OSX already. Have been for years. So that's a yes.

Holy off topic Batman !

Holy clueless, batman! It's completely on topic, this announcement is the entire reason for the Apple stock boost.