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View Full Version : Once upon a time in Apple land. A MacBook Pro tragedy. (you can laugh at/with me)




kntgsp
Apr 14, 2006, 07:55 PM
I consider this a Crime Drama, as what Apple is doing is, to me, criminal.

Here is the story of my MacBook Pro (RIP) and why I almost c***punched an apple rep.

Once upon a time, a college student who had saved up a bunch of money for a shiny new laptop, decides to plunk down $3000 USD on a brand new MacBook Pro from his College Bookstore Apple Store. The college student is sold by the employees showing off the MacBook Pro, and so he decides to go all out and get the loaded version.

He goes home, the whole way eyeing his new MacBook Pro in the seat next to him. He gently unpacks the MacBook Pro, making sure not to tear any wrapping or scratch his shiny, new $3000 USD investment. He boots up his laptop and is greeted to the wonderfully pleasant guide to set up his new computer. He even takes a few snapshots with his fun new built-in iSight.

He makes sure to update all the software and install the latest firmware and updates to make sure his sound investment is up to snuff with the latest the tech world and internet has to offer. He smiles proudly at his shiny, new $3000 USD investment.

But alas, the elation was not for long, when not one, but two aberrations appeared in his shiny, new $3000 USD investment. He began to hear a faint whining noise from the sides of the shiny, new $3000 USD investment that randomly changed in volume and frequency. And whenever he played an audio file on his laptop through his headphones, an audible click was heard before each file was played. Assuring himself that his shiny, new $3000 USD investment could not be at fault, he switched headphones. But alas, the same noise was heard.

He then checked the forums on MacRumors.com, only to be greeted to "MBP whining", "whines on new mobo's", "why why why the whine?", etc. etc.

Convinced that Apple, being the customer oriented and honest company that it is, already had a fix for the problem, he checked the software updater and website for updates. Sadly there were no updates. However he found relief in a slew of programs that claimed to eliminate the whining. Not content with the idea of having to run a program to ELIMINATE A NOISE on a shiny, new $3000 USD investment, he tried to ignore it.

The college student was then swarmed with postings about windows on the mac, and boot camp, and millions of other fascinating stories. So, in an attempt to see what all the fuss was about, he installed Boot Camp and booted up a copy of XP Pro. "Meh," he thought, interesting, but useless. Then he noticed, or failed to notice, something. The whining. It was completely absent. He waited and waited, and ran different programs, but the whining refused to rear its ugly head. "My GOD" he said, "Running windows on my shiny, new $3000 USD investment eliminates the whine. Maybe I could just run windows permanently"

He then realized that doing so would involve selling his soul, and so he immediately deleted the partition, to avoid becoming posessed by evil demon spirits that are a shade of blue and constantly recite "A fatal exception has occured, a fatal exception has occured."

Cleansed of his sins, he decided to take the shiny, new $3000 USD investment back to the store to demand a refund for a defective product, as it was clearly defective out of the box.

Told by the desk worker that only the manager can handle those issues, he was told to come back the next day when the manager would be working. So he waited......and waited........and waited. The next morning could not come fast enough. He felt odd as the excitement that poured through his veins was in many ways similar to the excitement he felt when he purchased the laptop......which made him sad........for apple.

The next morning, the college student spoke with the manager and explained the problem and dropped the laptop off to have it looked at by the tech shop onsite as required by the store policy. Apparently the Apple Store is an Apple reseller, and not a store, therefore the return policies do not apply, something which the salespeople neglected to mention. The college student deems this acceptable, as it was partially his own fault for confusing store with reseller......and goes home for a day. The next day he is greeted to a phone call by a techie who claims he cannot duplicate the whining. He also was unaware there was a problem with the audio.

Frustrated, the college student drags his headphones with him to the Apple Store and demonstrates the audio clicking to the techie. "I don't hear anything" says the techie. Convinced he isn't crazy, he decides to ignore the minor problem and focus on the major one. The laptop is unusually silent as the whine fails to manifest itself in all its evil glory in front of the techie.

He goes back to the front desk and begins speaking with the manager, explaining the problem once again and how the techie didn't hear the noises, only to be interrupted with "oh yea, his hearing is terrible".......................

Frustration moves to Anger.......for employing someone with terrible hearing to check for AUDIO PROBLEMS. No, not Banjo Albums, AUDIO PROBLEMS. Are you hard of hearing?

Frustrated with the lack of direction in regards to a resolution, he asks what is to be done. The manager replies that he has to go through apple to get a DOA certificate or to exchange a faulty product, and says that he could let me open a few more and test them to see if they have the problem. The student tells the manager that his suggestion is asinine and would only lead to them having to mark down a half dozen laptops.

The manager says that he agrees, since there is a likelihood of the problem being evident in another laptop as well, since they were all ordered at the same time, and that they would then have to mark them all down. Basically regurgitating what the student had just told him.

The student says he would like his money back then for a faulty product. The manager begins speaking with apple and while the student waits......30 minutes to be exact, the manager speaks with an applecare rep.

When he returns, he explains that they will not DOA the product because it is considered an "easy fix". The student asks what this 'easy fix' entails. The manager explains that the student would mail the product to Apple and they would examine it, repair it, and mail it back to him. The student replies that "our definitions of easy must be quite different. Boxing up a 2 day old laptop, mailing it across the country to be fixed, then having it mailed back to me, is not what I consider within the realm of 'easy fix'. 'Easy fix' would be replacing some bad RAM, or reinstalling the OS."

The manager looks appropriately puzzled and defeated. He hustles off to the manager room once again to speak with Apple. Returning another 30 minutes later with promises of being able to exchange the product for a different model, say a powerbook, he begins explaining the process. Having already filled his daily requirement of Red Tape for the day, the student indulges him regardless. He is instructed to speak with Apple tech support to get a case number, which they would use to return the product, and as a result give the student his money back.

So the student obliges and calls tech support. The conversation is as follows:

them - "Hello, welcome to Apple Tech Support, what seems to be the problem"

College Student - "My shiny, new $3000 USD investment doesn't work as intended"

Apple- "Could you be more specific?"

C.S- "My shiny, new $3000 USD loaded MacBook Pro doesn't work as intended"

Apple- "what exactly is the problem?"

C.S. - "It whines at me. The computer makes a high pitched whining noise. Constantly. And everytime an audio file is iniated, including the volume buttons, an audible click is heard before each file is played."

Apple - "Hmmm I don't believe we've heard of this problem befo--"

C.S. - "COUGHCBULLSHCOUGH"

Apple - "I'm sorry, what was that sir, I couldn't hear you?"

C.S. - "sorry, had something in my throat."

Apple - "Well we haven't heard of this problem before, but we can set you up with AppleCare support and have you mail it in to have us take a look at it."

C.S. - "it's one day old. I would like to return it. I'm not going to mail a shiny new $3000USD investment across the country when it's 1 day old and clearly DOA."

Apple - "Well we don't consider that to be DOA"

C.S. - "DOA stands for Dead On Arrival, correct?"

Apple - "Yes it does"

C.S. - "I consider the motherboard making a whining noise and and audible click being played before each sound file, despite numerous reinstallations of the OS to be Dead-On-Arrival. Not working as intended. Broken out of the box. Kaput. I require a case ID so that I can return the product to the apple store i purchased it from at my college bookstore."

Apple - "the college bookstores are not apple stores, merely authorized resellers. You will have to go through them."

C.S. - "but they told me to go through you"

Apple - "right, but you need to go through them. Is there anything else I can help you with."

C.S. - "Yes, the whining has slowly driven me insane."

Apple - "yes, well I'm sure the store will be able to help fix the whining"

C.S. - "Broken laptop and no good audio make Karl go something something"
(obscure simpsons reference)

Apple - "excuse me?"

CLICK.

Having had enough of the run around, the tired college student decided to march to the bookstore and back again. Uphill. Both ways. In a blizzard. In April.

Having gotten there, the manager asked for the case number. Not having one, the story began again.........as if by some nightmare.

Realizing that it wasn't their fault, but Apples, the college student retained his composure and asked what could be done since he was being given the run around, and quite frankly, his legs were tired of running. Uphill. Both ways. In a blizzard. In April.



kntgsp
Apr 14, 2006, 07:56 PM
The manager informed him that they would call their AppleCare rep. Which they did. And the college student waited, and waited, and waited. 45 minutes later, the manager emerged from his festering cheeto cave to ask if the college student would be interested in getting a different model instead of a refund, and the college student said yes, "I wouldn't mind a 12" Powerbook plus the difference, since at least I know it works."

The manager returned to said cheeto cave, reappearing an hour later, as the store was actually locking its doors. They claimed they had spoken to no less than the head of AppleCare, the holy grail of defect laden Apple products himself, in an attempt to rectify the situation. The college student asked if now, he could finally have his money back.

The manager of the whole bookstore, an older gentleman, then spoke with the student and said he would gladly refund his product, but he would take the 300 or 400 dollar hit on having to mark it down since Apple wouldn't take it back. Refusing to allow Apple to shove off what was and is clearly their problem on a small campus bookstore and an old man with book budgets to worry about, he asked the younger, cheeto cave dwelling manager what could be done so that the owner would not be penalized by apple.

The manager informed him that he would need to speak with their AppleCare rep to resolve the problem. Picking up the pieces of his head that landed all over the room after that statement made his head asplode, the college student, now hungry, tired, and angry, made his way home.

With every last ounce of patience and a B.S. meter that was about to asplode as well, he called the AppleCare rep. Greeted with the exact same run around, the college student's sense of restraint finally left him.

Apple - "This is an easy fix, and we can guarantee it will come back working"

C.S. - "you're missing the point. I don't want to mail it in to get something fixed that should be working in the first place when I open the box. It's not even a week old. I want my money back"

Apple - "Der Der Der Derpy Der Der Derp. Der Derp dee Derpy Derpy Der."

C.S. - "Yes I understand you acknowledge the problem, how nice for you, I will promptly have a statue cast in your honor. I would still like my money back."

Apple - "We would exchange it with one in the store but there's a good chance that they might have the same problem"

C.S. - "Right. See, I know that. That's why I didn't ask for an exchange, since they all came in together."

Apple - "Right, we could exchange it for a different one in the store but there's still a shot that you'd get one with the same problem"

*College Student is 99 percent sure that he has lost his mind at this point*

C.S. - "If I saw a gumball machine filled half with turds and half with gumballs, I wouldn't throw away a quarter at a chance of getting a big fat turd. Sure the gumball looks appealing, but I'm not going to gamble a quarter and have to handle a turd"

Apple - *silence*

C.S. - "And I'm sure as hell not going to gamble with that situation when you're dealing with laptops and shiny, new $3000 USD TURDS."

Apple - "Ok I see that you're frustrated, and I'm going to speak with someone about getting your product DOA'd so that we can get you your money back without penalizing the bookstore"

What followed was honestly the longest the college student had ever been on a phone without speaking with someone. It was a Hold of Colossal proportions. So colossal in fact, that a time out would have been in order. About 45 minutes later, the rep returned:

Apple - "Hello?"

C.S. - "Yes."

Apple - "Wow, I'm surprised you're still there."

C.S. - "As am I. Now can I please get my money back"

Apple - "Well I went through alot of people and spoke with alot of people, and told alot of people the situation, and listened to alot of people tell me what they thought, and then spoke with one person."

C.S. - "I'm sorry, I only speak English. Can i please get my money back?"

Apple - "We managed to get a case number setup and they are most likely going to DOA it for you, and you just take this case number in on Monday morning to the bookstore and they should be able to work it out and get your money back"

C.S. - "So just like that, I hand them this number and the laptop and I get my money back?"

Apple - "Well you'll need to set aside some time for them to speak with the Case rep to........(at this point the college student has slipped further into insanity). Did you get all that?

C.S. - "No"

Apple, - "I'm sorry, would you like me to repeat that."

C.S. - "No"

Apple - "Can I do anything else for you then?"

C.S. - "Yes"

Apple - "And what is that, sir?"

C.S. - "Give me my hard earned $3000 USD back."

Apple - "Right, well I explained you'll have to do that on Monday."

C.S. - "Okay"

Apple - "Ok, so you understand the next process of this case?"

C.S. - "No" (simply apathetic by now, if you haven't realized)

Apple - "Ok would you like me to explain it again?"

C.S. - "No"

Apple - "Ok will that be all then?"

C.S. - "Sure"

C-L-I-C-K.



WILL THE COLLEGE STUDENT GET HIS HARD EARNED $3000 USD BACK?

WILL HE EVER FIND A WORKING LAPTOP THAT DOESN'T GET HOT ENOUGH TO FRY AN EGG AND MAKE LOTS OF WEIRD NOISES?

WILL HE MANAGE TO RESTRAIN HIMSELF LONG ENOUGH NOT TO C***PUNCH AN APPLE EMPLOYEE?

TUNE IN NEXT WEEK FOR THE SECOND HALF OF THIS THRILLING CRIME DRAMA

*I apologize in advance if a nice man named Eddie reads this, as he was the only sane, kind person I spoke with at apple the entire time. I left his convo out, because it obviously isn't comedic. I lumped together alot of the Apple reps, too many to count, into the conversations, and don't want Eddie to think that he wasn't helpful. He was, in fact, the most helpful Apple employee I have ever dealt with.*

livingfortoday
Apr 14, 2006, 08:13 PM
Wow. And I thought I had it bad when I was trying to return my screwed up iMac. I guess I was lucky I didn't have to deal wth a reseller. sheesh. I feel your pain, man.

Placeholder
Apr 14, 2006, 08:30 PM
I did it! I read the whole story in one sitting!

I can empathise with you though (and so can hundreds [of thousands] of other people) - applecare does a tremendous job of giving people the runaround. When I called them the morning after I opened my MBP, I only stayed on the line for 2 minutes. I got the "Well this is a first. We've never heard of such a problem..." and hung up. (Sadly, I paid good money for applecare too). But it's a stellar machine if you use a widget fix - chances are a firmware fix from apple will rear it's head in a while anyways.

But $3000 IS A LOT OF MONEY!

ericssonboi
Apr 14, 2006, 09:04 PM
Man... that is a long post...
And i must admit... dropping $3000 on computer; it should be a problem free computer.

d_and_n5000
Apr 14, 2006, 09:11 PM
Jeez. This is a fine example on why Apple needs to have a bar none 2 week return policy. "If you are unsatisfied for any reason whatsoever, even if your only complaint is that Mac OS X is difficult to adjust to, Apple will take it back. Bar none." This would be a good thing, I tell ya!

Placeholder
Apr 14, 2006, 09:29 PM
Jeez. This is a fine example on why Apple needs to have a bar none 2 week return policy. "If you are unsatisfied for any reason whatsoever, even if your only complaint is that Mac OS X is difficult to adjust to, Apple will take it back. Bar none." This would be a good thing, I tell ya!

Maybe, but maybe not. I would have returned my MPB the day after due to the whine - if it was an easy process. But now that a fix is so easy, I love it to death.
And think about it, if 90% of the buyers returned their MBP's - the price would probably jump to $4000 for the machine (just to cover their butts on returns).

Kuru Kuru
Apr 14, 2006, 09:33 PM
I still don't know how that rep wasn't aware the problem existed. (in other words, like hell he wasn't, lol)

*awaits Episode II in suspense*

May all go well. If not... road trip to Cupertino? :P

(This post makes me love the text-derived ads. This time it suggests noise canceling earphones, "instant privacy" trees, and white noise machines...)

Chaszmyr
Apr 14, 2006, 09:45 PM
I still don't know how that rep wasn't aware the problem existed. (in other words, like hell he wasn't, lol)

*awaits Episode II in suspense*

May all go well. If not... road trip to Cupertino? :P

(This post makes me love the text-derived ads. This time it suggests noise canceling earphones, "instant privacy" trees, and white noise machines...)

Hey, you're not vniow, you cant use colors! :p

bursty
Apr 14, 2006, 09:46 PM
wow, can you say drama queen? :rolleyes:

livingfortoday
Apr 14, 2006, 09:52 PM
wow, can you say drama queen? :rolleyes:

I would have agreed with you a few months back, but having gone through what I did just to get Apple to concede my Intel iMac had any problems and that I wasn't just crazy I have to sympathize with the OP. Seriously, Apple can treat its customers like complete crap at times, or incredibly awesomely at others - luck of the draw, I guess. I know my experience with Apple support made me unlikely to ever buy Rev A products from them, though I love the systems and the OS enough that I'll be a customer for a while still. For switchers and other new customers, though, I doubt they'd be willing to put up with the incredible level of BS they can shovel at you.

bursty
Apr 14, 2006, 09:55 PM
I would have agreed with you a few months back, but having gone through what I did just to get Apple to concede my Intel iMac had any problems and that I wasn't just crazy I have to sympathize with the OP. Seriously, Apple can treat its customers like complete crap at times, or incredibly awesomely at others - luck of the draw, I guess. I know my experience with Apple support made me unlikely to ever buy Rev A products from them, though I love the systems and the OS enough that I'll be a customer for a while still. For switchers and other new customers, though, I doubt they'd be willing to put up with the incredible level of BS they can shovel at you.
Bad support happens to everyone at some point. I've had great luck with Apples support, but it hasnt been perfect. That said, this was by far the most dramatic "look at me and my problems" thread I've ever read on MR. :p

mjstew33
Apr 14, 2006, 10:21 PM
So what are you going to end up doing?

To get it all over with, even though it is a week old, just send it back and it'll all be over before you know it, and you'll be happily on your MacBook Pro loving every minute of it, without a whine or click between a song. :)

treblah
Apr 14, 2006, 10:29 PM
Wow, I can't believe I finished that.

So let us see what we have: One OS does not have the whine, one OS does.

Same hardware, different software.

Maybe you could have waited a little while to see if Apple fixes the issue with the next point release?

Nah, you were probably right in acting like a total ass to Apple.

Also, when spending a large ammount of money on a product, it is usually a good idea to actually research any problems that other buyers may be experiencing.

*I apologize in advance if a nice man named Eddie reads this, as he was the only sane, kind person I spoke with at apple the entire time. I left his convo out, because it obviously isn't comedic.

Define comedic for me. :rolleyes:

Lopez.T.H.
Apr 14, 2006, 10:51 PM
Man... that is a long post...
And i must admit... dropping $3000 on computer; it should be a problem free computer.

I agree with that. That really sucks. I hope that doesnt happen to me when I buy one...

thegreatluke
Apr 14, 2006, 11:08 PM
Didn't you know?
All Apple Stores and Certified Resellers have a 100% guaranteed Noise Jammer (C) noise jamming machine installed on premises.
This Noise Jammer (C) noise jamming machine will make the Apple Genius not be able to hear any noise-related problem.
That thing must've saved them millions of dollars worth of MBP's.

Seriously though, that sucks. I understand what you're talking about though.
You WILL get a refund if you call and complain enough. It works with every company.
Just remember to always stay friendly (big one), never curse and always be patient.
If you call in, the people there are generally more welcome to replacements than the Geniuses are.

Best of luck on your MBP! Get an iMac with your $3000 when you get it! :P


Oh, and about the whine not being there running Windows, the nice people at Microsoft issued a patch that killed the whine... several weeks ago.

sk1985
Apr 14, 2006, 11:09 PM
You should have purchased your MBP from apple. When my first iBook was DOA (the casing was loose and uneven) and I got a new one in like 10 seconds. I thought they would give me the run around because it was such a minor problem. Sure enough they DOAed it and gave me a new iBook.

I personally wouldn't buy from a reseller unless it was a major company (think bestbuy, ect...) that had a good return policy. I almost bought a 12 inch powerbook over my 12 inch iBook off the internet for a hundred some odd dollars more (after tax and shipping). Thank god I didn't most said if a product was defective or DOA you had to take it up with apple and if I wanted to return the unit I'd have to take a 15 percent hit...Pretty lame I say.

eVolcre
Apr 14, 2006, 11:16 PM
Didn't you know?
All Apple Stores and Certified Resellers have a 100% guaranteed Noise Jammer (C) noise jamming machine installed on premises.
This Noise Jammer (C) noise jamming machine will make the Apple Genius not be able to hear any noise-related problem.
That thing must've saved them millions of dollars worth of MBP's.

Seriously though, that sucks. I understand what you're talking about though.
You WILL get a refund if you call and complain enough. It works with every company.
Just remember to always stay friendly (big one), never curse and always be patient.
If you call in, the people there are generally more welcome to replacements than the Geniuses are.

Best of luck on your MBP! Get an iMac with your $3000 when you get it! :P


Oh, and about the whine not being there running Windows, the nice people at Microsoft issued a patch that killed the whine... several weeks ago.


Well, we have a patch too. The magic noise killer program really worls great. No noise at all

generik
Apr 14, 2006, 11:17 PM
wow, can you say drama queen? :rolleyes:

Exactly, all that effort wasted.

And the number of billable man hours you've wasted, not just for yourself, but also the manager at the AppleCentre and also the Apple rep over the phone. Just pick up the damned thing with both hands, raise it over a table edge, and slam down on it. There. Now call Apple and declare it DOA.

It is only a cheap dent on a cheap aluminium casing. Beats paying 3 hours worth of salaries for nothing :mad:

Counterfit
Apr 14, 2006, 11:30 PM
wow, can you say drama queen? :rolleyes:
The best way to get really good help is NOT to act like a complete ass/whiny bitch (not saying the OP was a whiny bitch). "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" is a load of ****. The squeaky wheel gets kicked, punched, then cut off with an oxygen-acetylene torch. Sympathy gets you more than making noise.

Of course, by the time you're done going through what you need to do to get your money back, you could have sent the Mac in, and gotten in back in perfect working order. Apple is (usually) very quick with the pro-level laptops.

vgoklani
Apr 15, 2006, 12:48 AM
hey,

I have the same problem as you....I am currently on my third macbook - my first one had a defective dvd drive, my second also made whining noises - but worse, it was running at 200 degrees (!!) I couldn't even type on the keyboard....my third one has a creaking screen hinge....i will probably just call my credit card company and claim the lemon law. I hope steve rots in hell.

blackpeter
Apr 15, 2006, 01:28 AM
Nah, you were probably right in acting like a total ass to Apple.

Also, when spending a large ammount of money on a product, it is usually a good idea to actually research any problems that other buyers may be experiencing.

Yeah, it's his fault for assuming that Apple's products work right out of the box. I mean, what does he expect? If he wanted quality and customer service, he should've gotten a Dell. What a moron!

edit: Sorry, that post was made in anger. I love Apple products, obviously. But I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to expect a full refund if a product requires a repair right out of the box. ANY product.

The last PC I owned (waaaaaay back in the 1990's) was a Dell. It was such a miserable experience (mostly because of Windows 98) that I was on the phone constantly with tech support. After 60 days, which was a full 30 days after my return period had expired, Dell took the entire $2500 computer back for a FULL REFUND.

So while I still loathe Windows, I'm the first person to recommend Dell to anyone who's looking for a PC. They took responsibility and understood the true meaning of customer service.

generik
Apr 15, 2006, 02:00 AM
Yeah, it's his fault for assuming that Apple's products work right out of the box. I mean, what does he expect? If he wanted quality and customer service, he should've gotten a Dell. What a moron!

edit: Sorry, that post was made in anger. I love Apple products, obviously. But I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to expect a full refund if a product requires a repair right out of the box. ANY product.

The last PC I owned (waaaaaay back in the 1990's) was a Dell. It was such a miserable experience (mostly because of Windows 98) that I was on the phone constantly with tech support. After 60 days, which was a full 30 days after my return period had expired, Dell took the entire $2500 computer back for a FULL REFUND.

So while I still loathe Windows, I'm the first person to recommend Dell to anyone who's looking for a PC. They took responsibility and understood the true meaning of customer service.

And I have to add that Dell's equivalence of AppleCare under Dell Small Business is waaaaaaaaay superior than anything Apple users can even dream of.

You can literally stand upright squarely on your 2 feet, release your Dell from 5 feet, and send it back for service, and it will be on the house. Try doing that with your MBP and see your service plan (costing as much as 1/4 of the laptop mind you) get voided and consumed as free gravy.

comictimes
Apr 15, 2006, 02:05 AM
So while I still loathe Windows, I'm the first person to recommend Dell to anyone who's looking for a PC. They took responsibility and understood the true meaning of customer service.

I'm not even gonna get started on my issues with apple support, but as to the Dell thing, I have to agree. One of my friends had a really old (nearly four years) Dell laptop that broke, but it was still under warranty. Since Dell wasn't making that type of laptop anymore they instead provided him with a new one that had the same value as what he payed for his laptop originally. There was something more to it than that, but in the end he got a really nice computer for free... I was impressed.

cait-sith
Apr 15, 2006, 02:30 AM
first revision products tend to have bugs.

3000$USD? did you pay 300+$ to get the 160MHz speedbump? i sure hope not.

is it just me or is 'mac book' a stupid name?

dylans
Apr 15, 2006, 03:08 AM
Mines in the shop. It had the whine too, but I did the software thing to solve it. However, that's a lame ass fix, and Apple should acknowledge this problem and label these DOA.

I'm pissed.

treblah
Apr 15, 2006, 10:00 AM
Yeah, it's his fault for assuming that Apple's products work right out of the box. I mean, what does he expect? If he wanted quality and customer service, he should've gotten a Dell. What a moron!

edit: Sorry, that post was made in anger. I love Apple products, obviously. But I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to expect a full refund if a product requires a repair right out of the box. ANY product.


First of all it is his fault for not doing any research on a big ticket item. It is not like whine threads popped up on the internet two seconds after he bought the thing.

Please remind me what didn't work out of the box. Be specific, what did not work? Screen, HD, RAM, CPU, AirPort, BlueTooth, OS X, any of the included software? :rolleyes:

livingfortoday
Apr 15, 2006, 11:02 AM
The last PC I owned (waaaaaay back in the 1990's) was a Dell. It was such a miserable experience (mostly because of Windows 98) that I was on the phone constantly with tech support. After 60 days, which was a full 30 days after my return period had expired, Dell took the entire $2500 computer back for a FULL REFUND.

Well, in fairness to Apple, they did give me a full refund as well, even though I had the iMac way past the return period and it was a custom order. Oh, and I didn't even have the wireless keyboard and mouse anymore that came with it. So they were overly generous in the end, it just took a heckuva time to get them even to admit there was a problem.

pooky
Apr 15, 2006, 11:14 AM
Ummm, why didn't you just mail it in and let them fix it? I understand the frustration behind getting a new laptop that has a problem, but it happens. NO product has a 0% failure rate. And your laptop was not DOA, it had a little bit of a whine. Apple was trying to work with you, and you acted like a dick to them. No wonder you got the runaround. Sorry, no sympathy here.

Timepass
Apr 15, 2006, 11:33 AM
Ummm, why didn't you just mail it in and let them fix it? I understand the frustration behind getting a new laptop that has a problem, but it happens. NO product has a 0% failure rate. And your laptop was not DOA, it had a little bit of a whine. Apple was trying to work with you, and you acted like a dick to them. No wonder you got the runaround. Sorry, no sympathy here.

Because it was a 1-2 day old laptop. On the C.S. side no laptop should have a problem like that on day one. Apple support is a joke compared to I know dell and gateway (or at least when I delt with gateway a while go.) With dell the tower had a problem called them up and they where helpful. Friends dells laptop have a few problems they called them up and the next day (which was a saturday) Dell sent out a repair guy to the dorms to replace the mobo and fix things wrong with it free of charge.

Gateway my parent computer gateway always been helpful on that. Even though we have added parts our selves during the warrenty they still replaced mobo and harddrive when they failed at the same time (I think the mobo failure killed the hard drive). Gateway was helpful in replacing the mobo in my laptop when it failed a year after the warrenty had gone out. Yeah I had to pay for it but it still was close to cost and very reasonable ($145 for the mobo being replaced by them) and that one was this summer

I would love to see apple do that for one of there laptop. The mobo has a failure at around 4 years and they being willing to fix it under $150. Apple support is pretty poor compared to the others.

danny_w
Apr 15, 2006, 11:46 AM
I really have not had a problem that I had to have Apple fix, and I have been using them since last January of 2005. I did feel bad when I bought my first Mac (a mini) and it had the washed-out gray screen display on my vga monitor; I ended up getting another monitor, but Apple really should have fixed this very well known mini problem (as far as I know they never admitted the problem and never fixed it). These stories really do concern me about Apple, and make me really wonder what I will do if I ever really need service. People bash Dell all day long, but the one thing they have going for them is service, and a no questions asked return policy. They are very good at customer service, and very willing to make things right or to take it back, whatever makes the customer happy. Sounds like Apple is a far cry from that level of customer service!

Counterfit
Apr 15, 2006, 11:48 AM
Please remind me what didn't work out of the box. Be specific, what did not work? Screen, HD, RAM, CPU, AirPort, BlueTooth, OS X, any of the included software? :rolleyes:
That is a good point. The whining is from hardware, but it obviously influenced by the software (hence it no being there when running Windows or certain apps). The audio click thing, however, is what I'm more interested in. It would probably be fixed by replacing the logic board, which (depending on if Apple has changed anything) might also take care of the whining. Well, the whining from the computer anyway.

jefhatfield
Apr 15, 2006, 12:15 PM
I would have agreed with you a few months back, but having gone through what I did just to get Apple to concede my Intel iMac had any problems and that I wasn't just crazy I have to sympathize with the OP. Seriously, Apple can treat its customers like complete crap at times, or incredibly awesomely at others - luck of the draw, I guess. I know my experience with Apple support made me unlikely to ever buy Rev A products from them, though I love the systems and the OS enough that I'll be a customer for a while still. For switchers and other new customers, though, I doubt they'd be willing to put up with the incredible level of BS they can shovel at you.

os x is the only thing that has kept me with apple...their hardware has often been lame of late and no different than dell except for better industrial design

who cares how beautiful a machine is if it is faulty? but mostly buying any rev 1 computer, apple inc included, does pose risks...i am sure their next rev of the macbook pro will solve these issues, but applecare will probably remain hit and miss for the forseeable future

if sony or toshiba ran os x, i would go with them in a heartbeat, but since they run windows, they won't get my business :)

jefhatfield
Apr 15, 2006, 12:20 PM
Ummm, why didn't you just mail it in and let them fix it? I understand the frustration behind getting a new laptop that has a problem, but it happens. NO product has a 0% failure rate. And your laptop was not DOA, it had a little bit of a whine. Apple was trying to work with you, and you acted like a dick to them. No wonder you got the runaround. Sorry, no sympathy here.

you are right and wrong

yes, no product has a 0% percent failure rate

but you simply didn't read the first and second posts...shame on you...please re-read them...apple gave the runaround from the beginning

he he...i will admit that those first two posts were very long, and perhaps the longest i have seen here, except for my early posts on macrumors in 2001 ;)

mjstew33
Apr 15, 2006, 12:30 PM
I hope steve rots in hell.
A little harsh there.

Steve doesn't control what MacBook pro you get.

Apple wouldn't be Apple without Steve.

:rolleyes:

blackpeter
Apr 15, 2006, 12:42 PM
First of all it is his fault for not doing any research on a big ticket item. It is not like whine threads popped up on the internet two seconds after he bought the thing.

Please remind me what didn't work out of the box. Be specific, what did not work? Screen, HD, RAM, CPU, AirPort, BlueTooth, OS X, any of the included software? :rolleyes:

Don't be asinine just for arguments sake. You're telling me that it's normal or acceptable for a computer to make high pitched noises and clicking sounds?

And, yeah. Next time a PC friend of mine asks if he should buy a Mac, I'll tell him, "Sure... only, make sure to research which model you want thoroughly. Because some Macs don't work properly out of the box. Sometimes they make weird noises or the wireless cards don't work. I mean, the Mac is great and all, but you need to do your research or else you might buy a $3000 computer that's defective. Know what I mean??"

To which my friend will reply, "Dude... I'm just going to get another Dell."

Great way to get more switchers on Macs.:rolleyes:

jefhatfield
Apr 15, 2006, 01:16 PM
Don't be asinine just for arguments sake. You're telling me that it's normal or acceptable for a computer to make high pitched noises and clicking sounds?

And, yeah. Next time a PC friend of mine asks if he should buy a Mac, I'll tell him, "Sure... only, make sure to research which model you want thoroughly. Because some Macs don't work properly out of the box. Sometimes they make weird noises or the wireless cards don't work. I mean, the Mac is great and all, but you need to do your research or else you might buy a $3000 computer that's defective. Know what I mean??"

To which my friend will reply, "Dude... I'm just going to get another Dell."

Great way to get more switchers on Macs.:rolleyes:

this is why i hope apple gets their revision 2 versions out in the market without any major problems...they have been good in the past about fixing known issues in rev 1 hardware and software

some people cried foul when apple decided to go intel...and unless apple fixes the now well known issues with intel macs, those anti-intel mac users who have or worship powerpc macs will have a lot of ammo for their arguments

if someone were to ask me now about a current ibook vs. a macbook pro, i would still steer the person to the ibook

same goes with someone asking about a power mac G5 vs. a 20" inch intel imac (which i own) where i would still tell new switchers to stay with the powerpc macs...at least for now until late in this year...after that, intel macs will probably be free of major issues and if all goes well, they will kick the butt of core duo pc desktops and laptops

the switch to intel was a huge project, so major problems with first revision models is a given

and there are people out there who have the same issues with intel macs and only consider them, and bad apple support, as minor annoyances

overall, apple inc has gone downhill on hardware and technical support (at least from the days when i supported the platform as a mac and pc tech from 2000) and the cheap and reliable pc market has probably been a major contributor to this

a great computer company would combine the great design of apple's os x, the rugged hardware of toshiba, the industrial and innovative style of sony, the deep pockets of microsoft, and the quick and reliable support of dell...but alas, no company has all that

Demon Hunter
Apr 15, 2006, 01:28 PM
Wow, that was dramatic.

I went through much worse with my 15-inch PowerBook. Here's a hint, posting lengthy diatribes is far less effective than actually listening to AppleCare, waiting until Monday and getting your "$3000 USD" back.

kntgsp
Apr 15, 2006, 01:30 PM
Don't be asinine just for arguments sake. You're telling me that it's normal or acceptable for a computer to make high pitched noises and clicking sounds?

And, yeah. Next time a PC friend of mine asks if he should buy a Mac, I'll tell him, "Sure... only, make sure to research which model you want thoroughly. Because some Macs don't work properly out of the box. Sometimes they make weird noises or the wireless cards don't work. I mean, the Mac is great and all, but you need to do your research or else you might buy a $3000 computer that's defective. Know what I mean??"

To which my friend will reply, "Dude... I'm just going to get another Dell."

Great way to get more switchers on Macs.:rolleyes:


That's exactly my point. The only press I had seen on the MacBook Pro was on the Apple website and a video CNET review. Everyone was giving it glowing recommendations. Of course the first thing that comes to mind isn't "man I better check the forums for all the problems this thing has". It's not like I sit in my apartment all day on the computer reading forums and RSS feeds to hear the latest gossip on Apple products. I'm a casual user. iTunes, Web, Chat, and some Photoshop for my digicam projects. And yes, with AppleCare, the total is $3000.

To those of you that tell me to mail it in and get it fixed, just listen to yourselves. That's asinine.

Wow hey, I just bought my brand new laptop with my hard earned money. Oh, look at that, it has problems out of the box. I''ll take it in to get looked at. What's that you say mr. superguru appleman? I have to mail it across the country and get it fixed because it's broken on the FIRST DAY I OWN THE ********** THING? Yea, I don't think so, I want a refund. I'll be sticking with a G4 product, because at least I know they don't have problems.

And don't give me this Rev A bull***t. I've owned two Rev A products, the iMac G5, and the first rev of the 12" PBG4. A constant whining noise that I can hear even with headphones on, and constant clicking noises with audio despite firmware/software/os updates/reinstalls, clearly means it's not the headphones. I never had any problems with Rev A products.

Why would I now suddenly be inclined to scour the internet looking for negative feedback on this thing?

I never raised my voice with any of their "guru's" or "tech support", and I use those terms loosely. I just simply chose to ignore bull***t. It was just a constant: "my laptop is making noises and clicks constantly". "No it's not." "Yes, yes it is". "No it's not, we don't hear it."

It's like dealing with 3 year olds.

I know the internet/forum percentages are over represented, but if you have 10 or 20 percent (realistically) of your product with clear cut defects, YOU SHOULDN'T ship the goddamn product. It just doesn't make sense. Fix the problem, which mostly being the whine involves either fixing your software/firmware or whatever, before you ship the product. (I think i also just had a bad logic board with the audio)

It DOES NOT make any sense whatsoever to justify spending that much money on something, and then having to wait until a fix arrives. It is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED. I'll be taking my money to the Apple Store downtown and getting a G4ibook or pb, since at least they don't have this kind of crap. And yea, I had a logic board go out on my PB once, but it was after I had it for 4 months, and it was under the AppleCare warranty, so of course I had no problems mailing it in to get fixed.

If i get something like that out of the box, you sure as hell bet I'm going to return it.

kntgsp
Apr 15, 2006, 01:38 PM
Wow, that was dramatic.

I went through much worse with my 15-inch PowerBook. Here's a hint, posting lengthy diatribes is far less effective than actually listening to AppleCare, waiting until Monday and getting your "$3000 USD" back.

Uhh why would I expect posting a story to have any impact whatsoever on my situation? I was just posting it to amuse people with a story about annoying runarounds with support morons. If you don't find it amusing, I could care less. That's proooobably why i said 'you can laugh with/at me' in the headline. It's just meant to let people who have the same situation with the noise garbage laugh at a situation. That's all.

Believe it or not, people can write/tell stories without having to make a political statement/world altering point. I was never the creaky wheel and never barked at them. I just said I refuse to leave until I get my money back. That is not unreasonable in the least. I gave you $3000, you gave me a defective product. Return my money. End of story.

The true drama queens are the ones who try to start some debate with this. It's just a funny story people, jesus. That's all. If you prefer to bury your head in the sand so you don't hear the problems with your macbookpro, or are lucky enough not to have any, then move along.

dylans
Apr 15, 2006, 01:51 PM
It's just meant to let people who have the same situation with the noise garbage laugh at a situation. That's all.

I'm actually in the same boat, and thought your story was very well written, and frickin hilarious. I'm extremely pissed off at my situation as well, but you have to find humour in the darkness ;)

Felldownthewell
Apr 15, 2006, 02:07 PM
Very funny story. People are reading into this way to much, and defending Apple when they are the ones in the wrong. I agree, if a product that is that expensive is defective straight out of the box, this the purchaser should have the option of a full refund, a repair, or an entirely new product. It is the responsibility of the company, if their product is broken because of their error, to make it all better for the person shelling out $3000 for a computer!

Good luck, and I can't wait to hear the next instalment!

iHeartTheApple
Apr 15, 2006, 03:36 PM
Don't be asinine just for arguments sake. You're telling me that it's normal or acceptable for a computer to make high pitched noises and clicking sounds?

And, yeah. Next time a PC friend of mine asks if he should buy a Mac, I'll tell him, "Sure... only, make sure to research which model you want thoroughly. Because some Macs don't work properly out of the box. Sometimes they make weird noises or the wireless cards don't work. I mean, the Mac is great and all, but you need to do your research or else you might buy a $3000 computer that's defective. Know what I mean??"

To which my friend will reply, "Dude... I'm just going to get another Dell."

Great way to get more switchers on Macs.:rolleyes:

Agreed 1000%...'nough said.

To the OP, I completely understand how you feel. I don't care how much of an apple fanboy I am, I do not tolerate terrible customer service. Period. Luckily I have not encountered a similar problem with them yet. I hope everything works out for you. Good luck.

cheekyspanky
Apr 15, 2006, 03:42 PM
Good luck with your MBP hopefully you get a refund soon, I'm sending mine in for repair as soon as the box arrives to fix similar problems which have occured pretty much from day one.

Someone said being an ass to the support teams isn't effective - being nice doesn't work that well either as they will walk over you if you let them.

The only plus side to the whining/squealing noise is in my case, is the fact it's already put several people I know off buying an Apple computer. The longer it takes to sort out the problem the more people hear it, ask what the noise is and listen to my complaints.

Demon Hunter
Apr 15, 2006, 04:00 PM
Uhh why would I expect posting a story to have any impact whatsoever on my situation? I was just posting it to amuse people with a story about annoying runarounds with support morons. If you don't find it amusing, I could care less. That's proooobably why i said 'you can laugh with/at me' in the headline. It's just meant to let people who have the same situation with the noise garbage laugh at a situation. That's all.

Believe it or not, people can write/tell stories without having to make a political statement/world altering point. I was never the creaky wheel and never barked at them. I just said I refuse to leave until I get my money back. That is not unreasonable in the least. I gave you $3000, you gave me a defective product. Return my money. End of story.

The true drama queens are the ones who try to start some debate with this. It's just a funny story people, jesus. That's all. If you prefer to bury your head in the sand so you don't hear the problems with your macbookpro, or are lucky enough not to have any, then move along.

I came off rather harsh, sorry about that. I think you have every right to demand a refund, there's just no excuse for that kind of service. Give 'em hell.

There's a lot of disgruntled buyers who post about how horrible Apple is, and why they will never buy a Mac again, etc. My bad.

I actually bought a 12-inch PowerBook G4 because I don't want to deal with all this crap.

Tell us what happens.

asencif
Apr 15, 2006, 05:46 PM
Yes normally I would say Rev A is not the big deal everyone makes it out to be and recommend buying, however in this case is different. The issues with the MBP are ridiculous IMHO. I have tested that machine in different stores now and while it's design and speed are a marvel and can woo anyone even me at those moments, the reality then set in and clearly there were unacceptable issues. For me the heat was just an unbearable problem that I would not be comfortable with at all. Many have chosen to ignore those problems and then later on decide to send it in or even live with it. I read this quote many times "I love my MBP, it's an amazing fast portable laptop and those are just minor problems I can live with".

Well to me I don't really understand that as they are not minor. Whining noise is annoying and should not be there on a Core Duo chip that has been advertised as low power low consumption, along with the heat. To me this product clearly was not ready and rushed out the door. I know the laptops were in desperate need of an overhaul, but hey another 4-6 months would most likely lessened these issues. That's what we were told anyway. Intel arrives in Mid 06, but we got it early. There is also the factor of Merom just being around the corner. Well that means this current chip will have lifetime of only a year the most. To me that sounds like a stop gap chip and means a possible guinea pig product. The airport issues are also problems in the other Intel lines, however if I really needed an Intel system now I would go for a mac mini or 17 in iMac to hold me over till Merom and Conroe which is really what Intel is going to be using for a longer period of time.

Edit: By the way, get your $$ back on Monday, always purchase from Apple and get a PPC or cheap Intel to hold you over.

skubish
Apr 15, 2006, 06:12 PM
I can't believe I read all of that.
I am sorry but you should have returned it when the store manager agreed to take the "$300-400" hit. There is no way that was going to happen. The store would have eaten that. He basically guilt-tripped you into dealing with Apple.

Same on you for not understanding the return policy before buying.

Same on the store for not having a better return policy.

mkrishnan
Apr 15, 2006, 06:29 PM
I almost c***punched an apple rep.

*learns new word*

*prefers ignorance*

:(

I think there are some good points enmeshed in the flagrant drama, FWIW. :)

iGary
Apr 15, 2006, 06:32 PM
While I think you were an ass if you really talked to the folks like that, I can understand your frusration.

weg
Apr 15, 2006, 06:36 PM
You should have purchased your MBP from apple. When my first iBook was DOA (the casing was loose and uneven) and I got a new one in like 10 seconds.
Lucky you. When I ordered my first Powerbook at Apple, it took them one month to deliver me a DOA notebook. It took them another 16 days to ship the replacement. And no, this wasn't a "just released" powerbook, and it was not BTO.
I got my second Powerbook in a store, they even allowed me to unpack it and check if it has dead pixels (the replacement for my first PB actually had one, but you have to have at least 5 before Apple sends you a new one).

As for the story of the whining notebook: Don't be a whiner. I think the store manager was quite nice to you, he even offered you to check a dozen MBPs and take the one that you like ;-)

kntgsp
Apr 15, 2006, 06:39 PM
I came off rather harsh, sorry about that. I think you have every right to demand a refund, there's just no excuse for that kind of service. Give 'em hell.

There's a lot of disgruntled buyers who post about how horrible Apple is, and why they will never buy a Mac again, etc. My bad.

I actually bought a 12-inch PowerBook G4 because I don't want to deal with all this crap.

Tell us what happens.


Yea sorry, I came off harsh as well in the response, no harm meant. I'm doing that as well actually. I'm just going to go downtown to the Apple Store downtown as soon as I get my refund and get a 12" G4 PB. PPC will still be supported for at least 3-4 years, which the longest I could see myself owning something before upgrading anyway.

Good point.

kntgsp
Apr 15, 2006, 06:43 PM
While I think you were an ass if you really talked to the folks like that, I can understand your frusration.


Hahaha, no of course not. I'm honestly the most patient customer most people ever know. I've waited tables since I was a sophomore in highschool to help pay for college, BELIEVE ME when i say I understand the service industry.

Most of the telephone conversations are embellished, but I'm not promoting a book on Oprah here...har har.

It's mostly just my interpretation of how I felt and how the situation really played out. The time duration however is not exaggerated at all. I literally sat in a chair for an hour while they spoke on the phone with 'somebody' in their office. I just ended up chatting up some nice guys that work there between classes for the free textbooks. They all seemed to know perfectly well what the whining problems were. :cool:

Whistleway
Apr 15, 2006, 06:46 PM
Yea sorry, I came off harsh as well in the response, no harm meant. I'm doing that as well actually. I'm just going to go downtown to the Apple Store downtown as soon as I get my refund and get a 12" G4 PB. PPC will still be supported for at least 3-4 years, which the longest I could see myself owning something before upgrading anyway.

Good point.

Just an observation. After they put you through all this, you still would get an apple computer. Probably I would too. And that is precisely the reason why apple could care less about their support.

Damn, we need some competition, please !!

kntgsp
Apr 15, 2006, 06:51 PM
Lucky you. When I ordered my first Powerbook at Apple, it took them one month to deliver me a DOA notebook. It took them another 16 days to ship the replacement. And no, this wasn't a "just released" powerbook, and it was not BTO.
I got my second Powerbook in a store, they even allowed me to unpack it and check if it has dead pixels (the replacement for my first PB actually had one, but you have to have at least 5 before Apple sends you a new one).

As for the story of the whining notebook: Don't be a whiner. I think the store manager was quite nice to you, he even offered you to check a dozen MBPs and take the one that you like ;-)


Haha right, but I just realized that would only make the situation worse for both of us. I'd have to go through each macbook to check for the problems, and he'd have to mark down a half dozen laptops. It's not fair to either, and I'm not going to be an ******* and screw over the old bookstore guy like that.

I honestly tried so hard to ignore it, and even run Quiet Macbook Pro and Magic Noise Killer. The thought of running an app in the backround was just irking me because the battery life seemed to dwindle faster, and I usually use it quite a bit away from the power plug. It just seemed like I'd get into the 'red' alot quicker.

I hope you guys realize this is just a story. Alot of it is embellished just to make you guys laugh. The bookstore owner and apple shop guys were quite honestly (not to toot my own horn) pleasantly surprised with how calm and polite I was with them. Trust me, I KNOW angry customers, my dad is the worst, which is why I try so hard to be understanding, especially having worked in god knows how many restaurants.

I just said plainly and calmly, that I would please like my money back for a clearly defective product, as I don't wish to gamble with that much of my money to see if I can get a working product. I told them after finding out all the hype and hooplah surrounding the MPB that I'd rather own a G4 and have it be obsolete in 3 years and have to buy a new laptop then, than send my MBP in 1 to 3 times to get this noise and sound (my bigger gripe honestly) fixed.

I've seen a few posts in here by people saying they've sent in their macbook pros more than once, because it comes back with the same whining, and those are the guys I really feel bad for. I'm just trying make light of the situation with some office space-ish humor. I feel sorry for all the flamers that came in here (not you) trying to throw a huge stink haha.

kntgsp
Apr 15, 2006, 06:55 PM
Just an observation. After they put you through all this, you still would get an apple computer. Probably I would too. And that is precisely the reason why apple could care less about their support.

Damn, we need some competition, please !!


Right. I still believe Apple is a spectacular company in terms of their product and software. I think the story (which is partly embellished, mind you) came off as a huge rant against Apple. Not in the slightest. I just think their refusal to admit to producing an unproportionately large amount of lemons is rediculous. I still prefer to own Apple products, and they in no way lost me as a customer, I just realized that this time, buying into the hype really let me get burned.

I saw somebody's sig the other day that said something like "I trust blindly, but when I'm crossed I'll unleash a hell fury like you've never seen". I'm not quite that extreme, but yea, I trust Apple to produce what they sell you in ads and what they say. I'll just be a little more reserved in trusting them from now on, that's all. Not like I'm swearing off Apple in the slightest. I'll still buy Apple whenever I can, I'll just never buy a rev A product until it's been out for a while and I can read up on problems. I never thought to do that seeing as I never had any problems with rev A products before.

macgeek2005
Apr 15, 2006, 07:04 PM
When's Episode II coming out?

Alone2Gether
Apr 15, 2006, 08:25 PM
First revision...bad.
Loving the last revision Powerbook and yes, I think MacBook Pro sounds...eh.

Can't wait to dual boot on a 2nd/3rd revision Intel Mac (PowerMac) :D

macgeek2005
Apr 15, 2006, 08:39 PM
When's Episode II coming out?

?

mjstew33
Apr 15, 2006, 08:59 PM
?
He means when's the next thing gonna happen?

Are you going to get your "$3000 USD" back or what? ;)

notjustjay
Apr 15, 2006, 09:08 PM
Are you going to get your "$3000 USD" back or what? ;)

I do believe the correct term is "shiny, new $3000 USD investment". :D

nichos
Apr 15, 2006, 09:10 PM
You should have purchased your MBP from apple.

I disagree- why does apple give out their logo with the title below it "authorized dealer" when you get the same service as buying an apple from ebay?

nichos
Apr 15, 2006, 09:10 PM
Jeez. This is a fine example on why Apple needs to have a bar none 2 week return policy.

Exactly - all these MBP horror stories confirm my belief in NOT buying a Rev A apple anything! They just can't do Rev A's right.

danny_w
Apr 15, 2006, 09:36 PM
Jeez. This is a fine example on why Apple needs to have a bar none 2 week return policy. "If you are unsatisfied for any reason whatsoever, even if your only complaint is that Mac OS X is difficult to adjust to, Apple will take it back. Bar none." This would be a good thing, I tell ya!
And this is exactly why I refuse to buy anything from the Apple store. At least Fry's and Best Buy have a no questions asked return policy. If I buy my Mac from them I can take it back without a restocking fee.

jefhatfield
Apr 15, 2006, 09:43 PM
And this is exactly why I refuse to buy anything from the Apple store. At least Fry's and Best Buy have a no questions asked return policy. If I buy my Mac from them I can take it back without a restocking fee.

fry's does have any apple store, or authorized apple dealer beat on that one

a friend of mine, rachel, bought a G3 powerbook from fry's in san jose, california and it was missing the "esc" key and they promised to replace it...when she came back in a few weeks to get the key, the G4 powerbook had replaced the G3 powerbook and fry's simply gave rachel the G4 powerbook! not bad

you can say all you want about fry's being too impersonal and not well organized and too large, but they do stand by anything they sell

danny_w
Apr 15, 2006, 09:55 PM
fry's does have any apple store, or authorized apple dealer beat on that one

a friend of mine, rachel, bought a G3 powerbook from fry's in san jose, california and it was missing the "esc" key and they promised to replace it...when she came back in a few weeks to get the key, the G4 powerbook had replaced the G3 powerbook and fry's simply gave rachel the G4 powerbook! not bad

you can say all you want about fry's being too impersonal and not well organized and too large, but they do stand by anything they sell
Yes, and I wish that Apple would to the same degree. I think they could learn a thing or three.

macgeek2005
Apr 15, 2006, 10:30 PM
I desperatly need a new mac soon. Do you think it's safe to buy a Rev B Macbook pro?

asencif
Apr 15, 2006, 11:14 PM
I desperatly need a new mac soon. Do you think it's safe to buy a Rev B Macbook pro?

Nothing is ever a guarantee, but Apple generally is good at fixing issue completely with the next revision. I think a lot of the Intel MBP excitement was a lot of hype to live up to. For me the real deal is coming with merom on a MBP and also Apple and Intel will be on their second round of working together. I would wait. I actually think this whole transition was rushed and when it comes to this industry that's never a good thing, although a lot of people bought this system, so I guess it did work out for Apple. I kind of like that they are taking their time with the Intel version of the iBook and hopefully getting it done right.

macaddicted
Apr 15, 2006, 11:24 PM
I was laughing with you, I promise.

Having been on the other side of your conversation (because of my previous employers incompetence) I think you showed a great deal of restraint. My standard response was: Yeah, they goofed up, and they'll fix it when they get around to it. Don't hold your breath.

Which explains why he's my previous employer.

xPismo
Apr 15, 2006, 11:38 PM
...by far the most dramatic "look at me and my problems" thread I've ever read on MR. :p

Totally. Not only did it annoy me, but I felt little empathy for his problems... then I read:

hope you guys realize this is just a story. Alot of it is embellished

...and I decided to give up on this thread. I know Apple has problems with rev a and customer service... but this is just a silly thing to post without noting in big bold letters that you're taking liberties with the events. Joe switcher could really get the wrong idea about apple as well as its faithful.

Aaah. Probably just my attatude at the moment. Nevermind. I'm out of this one.

illegalprelude
Apr 16, 2006, 12:33 AM
Im going to have to agree with the original poster. Apples service is horrible and I have AppleCare. It took them over 3 months to acknowledge that my LogicBoard or Processor was bad in my PowerMac. same boat, I paid over $3k for my unit plus owning 3 year coverge. They couldnt find the problem and they wanted me to do it. I dragged my unit twice into Apple Store, 30 miles away and it sat there for a day, then a week, they didnt find anything. Then they told me to call Apple for them to send somebody.

I called Apple but they told me to take it to apple store. Upon there, they told me, I had to call Apple. Again, dragging a lovely 50lb PowerMac through the mall is exciting, let alone the drive.

Only once I saved over 30 Crash Console logs to prove to them, something was wrong and I wasnt BS'ing them, I took the unit it. 3 days later, they call me and say they couldnt produce the problem over and over but they acknowledge there was a problem and im getting a new Logicboard and Processor.

Did I mention that the unit had crahsed on them before too and it was logged but they denied it?

iBS23
Apr 16, 2006, 12:38 AM
...and I decided to give up on this thread. I know Apple has problems with rev a and customer service... but this is just a silly thing to post without noting in big bold letters that you're taking liberties with the events. Joe switcher could really get the wrong idea about apple as well as its faithful.


Best post in the thread. As for "C.S." let me see if I understand . . . you decide that the MBP is THE computer for you (without checking the net to see if there are any problems with your proposed $3000 investment) and you buy it (without the education discount it would seem).

Then you discover that you've got a whine and your FIRST thought is:

Cleansed of his sins, he decided to take the shiny, new $3000 USD investment back to the store to demand a refund for a defective product, as it was clearly defective out of the box."

Then after the manager suggests that you can exchange it (even though the store would "take a hit") and even offers you the opportunity to open others to see if the problem exists (never mind the fact that most places would simply give you one and then deal with a second return if that also had a problem) you continue to demand a refund because you might get another "defective" unit even though there are plenty of MBP users out there with no reports of whines (AND even though you claim to have owned and had good luck with REV A products before -- the same REV A products that TONS of other people had problems with).

Apple wants you to send it in and get it repaired (and even guarantees that it will be fixed -- something I've never been able to get them to do) and you still demand a refund. Then, they finally give you what you wanted and you write a post blasting them on the internet -- even though you got what you wanted.

Let's call this story what it really is: Buyer's Remorse. You freaked out about dropping $3000 and you looked for the first opportunity to bail. Why else would you refuse the option to replace or repair?

The fact is, Apple is a business. They don't make money offering to return $3000 to everyone. Just as Ford did with the Pinto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto), Apple has to make an analysis of how much repairing a product will cost vs. other options. Take the G3 iBooks -- one of their bean counters said that four logic board repairs was the cut off in the cost-benefit analysis between attempting repairs and simply replacing immediately (a hassle that I had to deal with). So, do they make it a hassle for you to get a refund? You bet your life -- as they should.

As far as I can tell, you were treated fairly by the local bookstore owner and Apple -- get over it. "But Dell will replace your computer if you sneeze on it the wrong way -- Apple should too." Fine, then go buy a Dell. The bottom line is that Dell can afford to replace the units much sooner than Apple for two reasons: Sales volume and Unit cost. Dell makes their money by selling a lot of cheaply made computers due to economies of scale. Plus, have you read the Dell support pages lately? First, their support isn't as good as it used to be. Second, there sure are a lot of problems being reported. Enjoy your Dell -- I know I'll enjoy my Mac.

cait-sith
Apr 16, 2006, 12:52 AM
Geez you're all so damn harsh on this guy. Who hasn't been pissed off by bad customer support? It's ***FRUSTRATING***! I'm with you 100% with your issue man, it's rough and so annoying when all you wanna do is play with that shiny new toy and it doesn't work.

Apple has been pretty good to me, they upgraded my eMac years ago when it got a week-long delay. Dell customer support is pretty good too -- but Dell's don't run OSX. So no Dell for me.

blackpeter
Apr 16, 2006, 01:53 AM
The fact is, Apple is a business. They don't make money offering to return $3000 to everyone. Just as Ford did with the Pinto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto), Apple has to make an analysis of how much repairing a product will cost vs. other options.

Did you just compare the MacBook Pro to the Ford Pinto? That's how you defend Apple?

That is truly bleak.

Roba
Apr 16, 2006, 03:36 AM
You bought something brand new and it was malfunctioning within one day of purchase. Under the law you are entitled to your money back no quibble. Anybody who tells you differently is not to be taken seriously.

YS2003
Apr 16, 2006, 06:15 AM
If I were in his shoes, I would have demanded the money back (this is my principle, followed by I don't take bulls from anyone especially when I am the customer). If a $500 laptop is developing whining and clicking noises, I understand the concept of "you get what you pay for." But, for a $3000 notebook, it better works from the get-go without any compromise. I don't want anyone to repair the brand new/one day old notebook as I know it won't be the same after the repair (scratched casing, warped casing, and etc).

I know Apple is positioned in the unique area of the tech market as it controls both OS and hardware. So, sometimes you can be a captive customer because you cannot get another Mac from other manufacturers.

When I bought my 12" PB and 12" iBook (I bought 15" AL and Ti PBs at Apple Store by love at first sight; after that I get more savvy with tech buying), I went though lots of forums to get the user reviews to make sure those models are not known for some proclivity to develop some annoying or fatale problems. They were clear and I went ahead buying them (to this day, no problem). When I wanted to buy 23" ACD, I have been reading many posts on pinkish tint and I was afraid of buying it. So, I bought it at CompUSA because of their 15 day exchange policy in case my unit develops pink tint; but, it did not. So, it worked out well for me.

I don't want to count on the good will of the company as my sole plan for these product defect issues. I want to have some plan B and C by checking on likelihood of myself getting into those problems and by checking resellers/stores' policy on DOA (Dead on Arrival or Defective on Arrival).

illegalprelude
Apr 16, 2006, 03:00 PM
anybody who dares bash the original poster needs to stop drinking the Apple Kool-aid and not name their blowup doll they sleep with Steve Jobs.

The point is, his computer failed him on the 1st day. He dosent want a 1 day old computer to be repaird already. He deserves a brand new one or completly his money. He shouldnt have to take the fall because apple messed up.

Again, problem with some Apple users is, the minute you point a fault at Apple, they go up in arms "omg, were so better, we dont crash, go buy winblows" yada yada.

Stop being so insecure and see the problem. There is a reason the original poster is here. He likes Apple. there is a reason he dumped $3k down on a MBP or he could have easily gotten a $900 PC.

Kuru Kuru
Apr 16, 2006, 04:16 PM
I have never bought a revision A anything, but that's just because I'm paranoid. I don't think that because a product is a first revision it is an excuse for it to have major bugs like that.
I've been behind a phone everywhere I've worked, and the only difference between one place's customer service and the next is how relaxed they are about keeping their employees after any number of times the issue wasn't "resolved" with the caller. Honestly, there are very few places where you can consistently avoid having a bad rep take your call. And it sucks. And we all rant about it in some way or another.
He really was pretty patient, actually (the fact that he waited so long in between every answer can attest to that). Embellished or not, this whole situation is so ridiculous and frustrating that for the sake of anyone's sanity who's had to deal with it, you better be able to laugh. :rolleyes:
I won't knock on the intel thing yet, though I agree with everyone who was talking about the impression this stuff has on switchers and the general public (even the mac faithful). They -are- quite good about fixing things up in the second revision.
Enjoy your 12" powerbook! They are still very worthy little machines... and it's not like they got slower when the new processors came out :P

Whistleway
Apr 16, 2006, 05:15 PM
He means when's the next thing gonna happen?

Are you going to get your "$3000 USD" back or what? ;)
Did you ever got the money back?

Bern
Apr 16, 2006, 05:39 PM
All the more reason never to buy a first release (insert beta) computer. It's a lot of money to pay just to be a public tester.

kntgsp
Apr 16, 2006, 07:05 PM
Did you ever got the money back?


You'll have to wait till tomorrow for me to post PART 2!! Dun duh duhhhhhh (cue ominous music)

But in all seriousness, I like hearing the responses. Particularly the one about 'buyer's remorse'. Haha, I'm sorry but that made me laugh.

I've owned half a dozen Apple computers before it. Trust me, it has nothing to do with buyer's remorse. I've also bought craptastic laptops as secondary windoze machines. I bought an HP at Best Buy once for, I believe it was $600, and it felt cheap, made random noises, and the like. But hey, it's a $600 brand new laptop, I'm not expecting the Mona Lisa of technology here.

When I spend 3 grand on a brand new top of the line product from a company that has never, ever given me a doa product, let alone one with minor problems (including rev a models), I expect my money back. If it was a month from now, obviously NO, I wouldn't demand my money back, THAT would be crazy.

But if it does this day 1, right out of the box, YES, I would like to return it for my money. It has nothing to do with whether the product didn't live up to my expectations in the sense of 'buyer's remorse'. I has to do with the fact that once I saw this problem and started to ask about it, I was greeted to the wonderful news that a significant percentage of them were having problems. That made it clear that mine wasn't a simple anomaly, it was a widespread problem. So NO, I don't want to exchange it. NO, I most certainly won't mail it in to get fixed. It's brand new. 1 day old. A newborn, if you will. I would like my money back to spend on a product that I know works. It's just clear as day that Apple rushed the product. I have nothing against Apple, I just don't like gambling with my hard earned money (besides poker ;) ).

I would have liked to get ahead of the transition so that I wouldn't have to buy another computer in the middle of med school again, when the PPC becomes obsolete. I'll just buy a discounted 12" PB, and trade up to the new revisions of the MacBooks/Pros next year. No biggie, nothing against Apple. I just prefer to get something that I know works out of the box when I spend that much money.

sam10685
Apr 16, 2006, 09:00 PM
long story. does someone have too much time on their hands?

macgeek2005
Apr 17, 2006, 01:03 AM
I await episode II in suspense................

lamina
Apr 17, 2006, 01:22 AM
long story. does someone have too much time on their hands?


Does you reading it and the comments on it signify that you have too much time on your hands?

I like hearing about peoples customer service experiences, since I am relatively new to Apple. I have learned a lot from kntgsp's post, and await the second installment.

illegalprelude
Apr 17, 2006, 02:24 AM
long story. does someone have too much time on their hands?

or Maybe somebody works hard for their $3000 and was expecting their product to work, only to get hasseled around.

fps
Apr 17, 2006, 05:30 AM
With regards to not buying a Rev. A I frankly believe it's non-sense. I waited a long time before buying a Rev. E Powerbook 15" last November thinking it would be free of quircks and I ended up with the dreaded "screen lines" pbm... (I returned it). So I think it's down to QA being poor these days.

macgeek2005
Apr 17, 2006, 03:14 PM
Well? It's monday! What happend? Did you get your money back?

milo
Apr 17, 2006, 03:31 PM
Is there a short version? People have better things to do with their time, learn to be concise.

eVolcre
Apr 17, 2006, 03:37 PM
Is there a short version? People have better things to do with their time, learn to be concise.


Who asked you to read and reply? :confused:

MovieCutter
Apr 17, 2006, 03:40 PM
All the more reason never to buy a first release (insert beta) computer. It's a lot of money to pay just to be a public tester.

My MacBook Pro 2.16, 100GB 7200RPM, 2GB RAM is PERFECT, and I only paid $2300. So there goes that theory.

kntgsp
Apr 17, 2006, 04:33 PM
My MacBook Pro 2.16, 100GB 7200RPM, 2GB RAM is PERFECT, and I only paid $2300. So there goes that theory.


Damn, where'd you get that price? I get the educational discount and still paid 2800 with tax before applecare. Jebus.


Anywho, due to people not wanting to read another 23498 page post for PART II, here's what happened today:

I go in with my case number, and hand the laptop and piece of paper to the manager. I chill out in the store and mess around with stuff for about an hour (I'm used to the wait now, not a big deal. I just check out new stuff), and he comes back and says everything is set for the return.

Funny thing is, the manager asks "so how did you to convince him to let you return it" as if it's some herculean task haha. But in all seriousness, they were really cool about it. The kids that work there don't have a choice when they have to deal with the runaround garbage Apple tells them.

All said and done, I got my hard earned $3000 USD back, and learned an extremely valuable lesson: Never trust Apple blindly again without scouring the internet furiously for reported defects.

That said, I'll probably be heading downtown tomorrow when the return shows up in my account, and buying a 12" PB G4 to hold me over until Rev B products for Intel begin showing up.

Nothing against the bookstore or Apple, but man, ''liscensed Apple retailers'' seem to needlessly complicate things. If it's Apple liscensed, they should have the same return policy regarding the products. But that's another discussion entirely.

SO......anybody have a 12" G4 PB they want to sell? haha

macaddicted
Apr 17, 2006, 05:08 PM
I'm glad everything worked out, but talk about anti-climax. :D But you deserve having something go easy after your previous experience.

fowler.
Apr 17, 2006, 05:23 PM
i stopped when you said, "investment".

milo
Apr 17, 2006, 05:34 PM
Who asked you to read and reply? :confused:

Who asked *you* to?

I just asked a simple question: is there a short version?

At least I kept my post to the point.

munckee
Apr 17, 2006, 05:50 PM
i stopped when you said, "investment".

:rolleyes: Why do people insist on posting statements like this? You know exactly what he means. The fact is that he spent a lot of money.

fowler.
Apr 17, 2006, 06:56 PM
he said it so many times, so eloquently, i would imagine he'd have an idea of what it meant.

macEfan
Apr 17, 2006, 06:56 PM
eek, what a long post... I read most of it... Sorry for your trouble, and I hope apple fixes it ASAP!

Agathon
Apr 17, 2006, 07:18 PM
Wow, that was dramatic.

I went through much worse with my 15-inch PowerBook. Here's a hint, posting lengthy diatribes is far less effective than actually listening to AppleCare, waiting until Monday and getting your "$3000 USD" back.

Yep, I agree. The OP should go buy a Dell.

Sure it would be nice if the store could just give you your money back, but unless you live in a country with proper consumer laws (i.e. not the US) that ain't going to happen.

And it's not like I had no problems with my Intel Mac. I got it replaced first day after it died, no questions asked.

kntgsp
Apr 17, 2006, 07:35 PM
he said it so many times, so eloquently, i would imagine he'd have an idea of what it meant.

Methinks you might have missed some underlying sarcasm. Then again, sarcasm doesn't carry as well into text as when you speak it.

zelmo
Apr 17, 2006, 08:00 PM
Forget all the bashers, OP. Glad you are staying loyal to the superior OS through all of this. Apple is, after all, only in it for the money, just like everyone else. and your story was entertaining. I, for one, never took it literally.;)
The G4, while obviously not even close to the end of the tech spectrum where the edge is being cut, will serve you well for several years, especially if your computer needs are as simple as your earlier posts suggest. Good luck with your impending purchase.

greenguy4
Apr 17, 2006, 08:28 PM
What an accomplishment...
You returning your laptop and so many people actually reading that entire post. I for one feel a sense of accomplishment for both of us!

Daedalus256
Apr 17, 2006, 09:07 PM
Oh snap,

After reading this thread I totally cannot wait to see what has happened today. kntgsp, you remind me of a lot of people on a different, exclusive forum (that requires $10 to join!)

At any rate, good luck with your endeavors and keep us updated!

EndSession
Apr 17, 2006, 10:15 PM
Oh snap,

After reading this thread I totally cannot wait to see what has happened today. kntgsp, you remind me of a lot of people on a different, exclusive forum (that requires $10 to join!)

At any rate, good luck with your endeavors and keep us updated!

Really? I didn't think a lot of people on SA sounded like dicks and treated sales reps like crap. And I registered just to tell the OP that.

Daedalus256
Apr 17, 2006, 11:09 PM
Really? I didn't think a lot of people on SA sounded like dicks and treated sales reps like crap. And I registered just to tell the OP that.

I think he used a lot of sarcasm and hilarity, seriously lighten up.

edit: Also, yeah a lot of people on SA do act like that, if you've ever visited SH/SC, some people there seem to be a bit full of themselves...

CellarDoor
Apr 18, 2006, 01:24 AM
What an accomplishment...
You returning your laptop and so many people actually reading that entire post. I for one feel a sense of accomplishment for both of us!

boy its like we're finally... meshing.

ortuno2k
Apr 18, 2006, 01:36 AM
I couldn't read it.
Got tooooo looong.

Kuru Kuru
Apr 18, 2006, 11:16 AM
It wouldn't have been as funny if it'd been "concise." :P Besides, if he was straight to the point, a bunch of us would be asking questions and pressing for details anyway. I laugh at people who waste five minutes registering so they can bash one person...
If I had to wait an hour anywhere on a regular basis, I could get used to an Apple store really fast. Actually, maybe a furniture store full of recliners. Or a glorious combination of both. Either way you look at it, that's a heck of a wait. But worth it for the return of $3000 USD.

whooleytoo
Apr 18, 2006, 11:43 AM
I couldn't read it.
Got tooooo looong.

As much as I have sympathy for the guy (or anyone who ever has to deal with customer support), I stopped reading when he started insisting a whine makes the computer DOA.

whooleytoo
Apr 18, 2006, 11:47 AM
*learns new word*

*prefers ignorance*


Me too! I tried all of my c-words in there, and my imagination started running riot. I don't think I want to know! ;)

Kuru Kuru
Apr 19, 2006, 04:31 PM
The other word for rooster. :) *ahem*