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MacRumors
Apr 21, 2006, 10:44 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/21takeback.html) that they had expanded their recycling program by now offering free computer take-back and recycling with any purchase of a new Mac starting in June.

U.S. customers purchasing through Apple's online store or retail store will receive free shipping and environmentally friendly disposal of their old computer.

"Apple is committed to supporting our customers and protecting the environment throughout the entire product life cycle, from purchase through to retirement," said Philip Schiller, Apple's senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. "Now we are making it even easier for Apple’s customers to safely and affordably recycle their used computers and iPods."

Apple had previously announced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/06/20050603152950.shtml) an iPod recycling program in 2005.

Mac Fly (film)
Apr 21, 2006, 10:47 AM
Apple. As green as a Granny Smith:D

hcuar
Apr 21, 2006, 10:51 AM
This is a great program... It's getting harder to dispose of old computer equipment. Our local garbage won't take a computer or monitor. You have to pay a recycling fee and take the computer to the dump.

mattthemutt
Apr 21, 2006, 10:51 AM
Nice to see a Fortune 500 company taking some environmental initiative. I was just reading "The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power" which talks about corporations and environmental concerns. Quite interesting.

NYmacAttack
Apr 21, 2006, 10:53 AM
Good idea for them to finally do this.

Leoff
Apr 21, 2006, 10:53 AM
And, of course, there's negative ratings. Who would rate this negative?

Probably someone who wants Apple to pay them for their computer.

UberMac
Apr 21, 2006, 10:54 AM
You want rid of your old computer...send it my way!

gkhaldi
Apr 21, 2006, 10:55 AM
Nice to see initiative. My next Macbook Pro will be green :D

gkhaldi
Apr 21, 2006, 10:55 AM
You want rid of your old computer...send it my way!

Even an non-Mac? ;)

MacTruck
Apr 21, 2006, 10:56 AM
And, of course, there's negative ratings. Who would rate this negative?

Probably someone who wants Apple to pay them for their computer.


Who would throw away a computer? And yep, this program would be nice if they bought them off of you. Maybe you people should call some schools in your area. I bet they would love to come pick them up from you. There is also the united way, toys for totts, salvation army... all of which will come to your house and pick them up. Think people.

mlrproducts
Apr 21, 2006, 10:57 AM
I assume this means we'll see Apple_Authorized_Outlet become the newest eBay member?

If you want FREE recycling now, I'll pay shipping to me for most of your computer related items!

puckhead193
Apr 21, 2006, 11:00 AM
i wouldn't mind like 5% off the purchase of a new computer or something, just some very small incentive.....
do u think the apple genius can fix my old LC, it doesn't work.... just sitting their..

hob
Apr 21, 2006, 11:01 AM
Great. Where's Apple UK's recycling program?? :mad:

Ashapalan
Apr 21, 2006, 11:01 AM
Yet another reason to like apple.

I am curious as to whether this is 'America - Only' though? Have i missed a paragraph answering this?

slidingjon
Apr 21, 2006, 11:03 AM
So now Apple's refurb section just got bigger? All profit, baby.

jimN
Apr 21, 2006, 11:03 AM
And, of course, there's negative ratings. Who would rate this negative?

Probably someone who wants Apple to pay them for their computer.

A new macs for old policy would be better ;)

You could vote neegative for the lack of an international policy. Us poor forgotten brits:(

sishaw
Apr 21, 2006, 11:03 AM
Who would throw away a computer? And yep, this program would be nice if they bought them off of you. Maybe you people should call some schools in your area. I bet they would love to come pick them up from you. There is also the united way, toys for totts, salvation army... all of which will come to your house and pick them up. Think people.

Depends on how old the computer is. Even schools and nonprofits often have minimum requrements for computers they'll take. I have checked this out in reference to my 450mhz Dell; while I'll save the hard drive, I've yet to find anyone who would take it, even for free. When I eventually upgrade to an iMac for my desk, this recycling program would be excellent for me.

blueimac'00
Apr 21, 2006, 11:07 AM
all you get is free shipping on your purchase? You might as well just give your old comp away.

velocityg4
Apr 21, 2006, 11:07 AM
I could only see using this if the computer was no longer functional, but I just toss that stuff in the recycling can. Let the recycling center sort it out I say, since I get charged to recycle anyway.

However if it is still functional I will sell it if worth over $300. If it is worth less I will offer it to a friend with an older machine, assuming they don't want the computer I will bring it to the Salvation Army.

Remember when giving to the salvation army or any charity include all cords and only 100% functional equipment, they don't have computer cabling and techs lying around you know. If you have any extra VGA, USB or power cords bring them with you they need them since most people do not include them.

Damek
Apr 21, 2006, 11:13 AM
I assume this means we'll see Apple_Authorized_Outlet become the newest eBay member?

If you want FREE recycling now, I'll pay shipping to me for most of your computer related items!

I was thinking along the same lines - I think eBay is probably a more attractive "recycling" program, and more environmental, too, because it lets someone else get some extended use out of an existing thing, rather than them having to go get a new thing and thus consume some more resources.

However, this is still a positive move by Apple, and I hope people who would not be using eBay to "recycle" their old hardware, or who would be unable to sell the hardware due to damage or age, will take advantage of the program to make sure their Apple products get disposed of properly.

jruc4871
Apr 21, 2006, 11:20 AM
all you get is free shipping on your purchase? You might as well just give your old comp away.

actually, i believe the 'free shipping' is for sending the old computer to Apple. You already get free shipping for your new Mac from the Apple on-line store.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 11:22 AM
This is literally a recycling program. They're offering to provide a free option for the environmental disposal of old computers, for people who would otherwise throw them away. It's not a profit source for customers--this is something that costs Apple money and Apple's refurb store isn't going to swell with the old and broken computers that come back to them.

This isn't a buyback or a trade-up program--no monetary incentives are called for. If the computer still works and isn't cripplingly outdated, by all means give it away to a worthwhile cause or sell it. If it's landfill-bound, then this is the perfect green solution.

nostaws
Apr 21, 2006, 11:22 AM
Apple making money? I don't think they will be able to give away my LC II. Still runs - But no CD rom drive: Just Floppies. I love them Apples, but the LC II was perhaps my worst purchasing decision - ever.

eme jota ce
Apr 21, 2006, 11:26 AM
Assuming that they receive mostly 4 to 10 year old computers, what are the components that they can salvage or reuse or extract value? What are the components that are costly to properly dispose?

dornoforpyros
Apr 21, 2006, 11:28 AM
hmm..in alberta they already charge a recycling levy on new computers/tvs/monitors and they have specific places to take old equipment.

Although maybe this is just a US thing.

AlBDamned
Apr 21, 2006, 11:28 AM
Guy's I'm pretty sure this isn't Apple being green - In Europe from June 1st, Apple and indeed all electrical manufacturers who sell goods in Europe must provide this recycling service. Not sure about the US but I think it's along similar lines...

Damek
Apr 21, 2006, 11:30 AM
I could only see using this if the computer was no longer functional, but I just toss that stuff in the recycling can. Let the recycling center sort it out I say, since I get charged to recycle anyway.

You get charged to recycle the materials for which your community has agreed to have a recycling service - if those materials include electronic devices, that's great, but if they don't, it would be irresponsible to burden the community recycling system with waste for which they are not responsible.

All citizens are still responsible for everything they purchase and use, and for disposing of them properly. If your community has a service that helps members dispose of certain materials, that doesn't mean they've accepted everyone's responsibility for all waste, only for the contractually, legally specified waste.

Just sayin'. I mean, if you paid for your own personal garbage removal service, you'd have a contract with them about what sort of waste they'd accept, and they'd get plenty pissed if you kept giving them waste they didn't agree to take. It's the same thing here except the city has the contract on your behalf as a citizen.

Personally I wish city services had a way to track garbage from its origin so they could return all the unacceptible materials to the freeloaders front lawns and doorsteps. Or just sort it at the origin and leave the contractually forbidden items there in the first place. Too bad that would all raise the cost, significantly.

EDIT: actually, more than that I wish recycling services would just be all-encompassing and that cities would stop arsing around with "we take this plastic, but not that plastic" type crap. NYC is like that - you can recycle some bottles, but not all ... it makes things more confusing and causes more troubles for them, I should think.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 11:33 AM
Guy's I'm pretty sure this isn't Apple being green - In Europe from June 1st, Apple and indeed all electrical manufacturers who sell goods in Europe must provide this recycling service. Not sure about the US but I think it's along similar lines...
The EU program isn't quite the same, and there's no such law (yet) for the US. The WEEE doesn't require free disposal--there's a fee added to the purchase price of new electronics to cover the recycling program, much like the Canadian example above.

So assuming this program applies to Europe as well as the US, they're exceeding the obligations of the WEEE Directive.

EDIT: Also, as a point of interest, Apple would only be required to take old computers at their retail locations. Collection relies on municipal locations and retailers, not manufacturers, though it is financed by the manufacturers.

Object-X
Apr 21, 2006, 11:34 AM
Apple Recycle Program = Ebay!

MrCrowbar
Apr 21, 2006, 11:36 AM
Hmm I'd rather give it away on eBay. The buyer takes shippings cost and I even get some cash, even if it's not functional. :D
A buddy brought his work mashine a few months ago. He said "I'm sure you'd like to have my iMac". I though it wsa the Lamp (G4), but it was the original (G3) iMac. I gave it away. Turned out it was one of the first iMacs (one of the first 100 to ever be shipped) and the guy sold it on eBay for quite a fortune. Guess how pissed I was. :eek:

Oh well, Good move for Apple. They should make hardware of recyclable material just like the boxes they come in :D . Serously, I wonder what they do with your ol' 'puter then. Offer them to schools? Recycle them for real? How do you recycle obsolete computer parts for a new computer anyway :confused:


I never rate in the forum by the way.

nagromme
Apr 21, 2006, 11:40 AM
I'm glad Apple has moved forward like this. (And if certain protesters helped make it happen--good for them!)

As for donating old computers to schools--realize that they may be refused because a really old computer (or a jumble of different computers even if newer) can be more trouble and support cost than it's worth. But re-use is certainly better than recycling, so try to find that machine a home :)

An older machine can make a perfect one-trick machine (email, card games) for a relative who isn't into computers. That's what I do :) I set it up so it's really easy and only does a few things--but reliably.


Recycle them for real? How do you recycle obsolete computer parts for a new computer anyway :confused:
They reclaim toxic materials as well as recyclable materials. I believe it begins with some kind of scary big shredder, and then metallic components are separated from others, etc.

You can find electronics recycling like that locally--if you're lucky.

MrJohnson
Apr 21, 2006, 11:41 AM
Dell had been doing this for a while.


But props to Apple for finally doing it.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 11:42 AM
Serously, I wonder what they do with your ol' 'puter then. Offer them to schools? Recycle them for real? How do you recycle obsolete computer parts for a new computer anyway :confused:
The computers are scrapped for base materials, like normal recycling, and then used in the manufacturing of brand new components. The box likely goes directly to the smelters and recyclers; I doubt that Apple would examine each computer as it comes in to assess its condition.

Max on Macs
Apr 21, 2006, 11:44 AM
Who would throw away a computer? And yep, this program would be nice if they bought them off of you. Maybe you people should call some schools in your area. I bet they would love to come pick them up from you. There is also the united way, toys for totts, salvation army... all of which will come to your house and pick them up. Think people.
I tried to leave my iMac G4s to a school, but they had the G5s before I did!

riciad
Apr 21, 2006, 11:49 AM
But some of us can't bear to part with our old faithful companion.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=194188

Maybe if I held a funeral for it I could reconcile myself to disposing of it.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 11:52 AM
But some of us can't bear to part with our old faithful companion.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=194188

Maybe if I held a funeral for it I could reconcile myself to disposing of it.
You could use the convenient box as a funeral barge and watch it sail off into the sunset as part of your funeral. Of course, instead of setting it on fire, you're just sending it to an industrial shredder...for recycling...which is kind of Soylent Greenish...

MrCrowbar
Apr 21, 2006, 11:52 AM
The computers are scrapped for base materials, like normal recycling, and then used in the manufacturing of brand new components. The box likely goes directly to the smelters and recyclers; I doubt that Apple would examine each computer as it comes in to assess its condition.

<sob> But... they really would kill a still funktional computer? They wouldn't do that, would they? Would be like sending my own child to an already lost war. <sob> I just can't let that happen. I happen to have an emotional relation to all my computers since I use them for years.
:p :p :p :p :p

I had an IBM wafer as mousepad once. Stole it on a tech conferenct from some guy :p . One day it fell down and got very... fragmented. Believe me, these things are worse than glass, you get glistering pieces and dust everywhere. I still find some bits of it sometimes. :o

sonnys
Apr 21, 2006, 11:57 AM
How on earth is "giving" your computer back to Apple a good thing????

Does anyone on this forum actually use their brains?

GIVE YOUR OLD COMPUTER TO A SCHOOL OR OTHER CHARITY for goodness sake, take a tax deduction, and do some good rather than giving it back to the same company who is already making a hefty profit on everything it sells you.

I wonder about you people sometimes.

MrCrowbar
Apr 21, 2006, 12:02 PM
That was my point actually. Since I give it away for free.
But people here are right. Sometimes it's hard to find someone to take an old Computer, especially if you can't run OSX on it ;)

So only call Apple if you tried hard enough to give it to someone that would use it.

twoodcc
Apr 21, 2006, 12:05 PM
How on earth is "giving" your computer back to Apple a good thing????

Does anyone on this forum actually use their brains?

GIVE YOUR OLD COMPUTER TO A SCHOOL OR OTHER CHARITY for goodness sake, take a tax deduction, and do some good rather than giving it back to the same company who is already making a hefty profit on everything it sells you.

I wonder about you people sometimes.

i agree. unless the computer is old and broken, i'd never just give it away to someone i didn't know

MacTruck
Apr 21, 2006, 12:07 PM
I tried to leave my iMac G4s to a school, but they had the G5s before I did!



Donating computers to Beverly Hills High School will return that result. :)

I refuse to believe that there are no schools out there that will take a working computer. They are still bitching about getting books.

macpastor
Apr 21, 2006, 12:26 PM
Living in the Minneapolis area we have more people with money than sense. The trade-in program for the iPod has resulted in almost new iPods being traded in to get 10% off a new one. I have a friend who manages the store and he can't believe what people will trade in. The results for people who have an inside connection? An iPod for $50-$100 that is almost new and ready to use.

I wonder how many year old computers we will get from this???

Flowbee
Apr 21, 2006, 12:28 PM
Who would throw away a computer? And yep, this program would be nice if they bought them off of you. Maybe you people should call some schools in your area. I bet they would love to come pick them up from you. There is also the united way, toys for totts, salvation army... all of which will come to your house and pick them up. Think people.

Have you ever tried this? Good luck calling a local school or charity and asking if they'll make a trip to your house to pick up an old computer or crt monitor that you couldn't sell or give away otherwise.

revjay
Apr 21, 2006, 12:29 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple announced (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/21takeback.html) that they had expanded their recycling program by now offering free computer take-back and recycling with any purchase of a new Mac starting in June...


I don't know about the rest of you...but I have always purchased a new computer before my current one is completely toast. The way it usually works is...my old computer gets relegated to "lesser" tasks in the household (kids games...rec room jukebox etc...) because it is still fully functional.

When it does actually die...since I have not just purchased a new computer, I am guessing that I would not qualify for the recycling program.

I think that Apple ought to find a way to receive any mac for recycling...even if they could be collected at apple stores or resellers once a quarter. It might lead to a huge amount of G3 imac's being turned in for recycling. Is their better press than ensuring 100,000 tons of hazardous waste is being disposed of properly?

Granny Smith move over!

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 12:34 PM
How on earth is "giving" your computer back to Apple a good thing????

Does anyone on this forum actually use their brains?
Do you? THIS IS FOR COMPUTERS THAT PEOPLE WOULD OTHERWISE THROW AWAY. It is meant to keep computers out of landfills, it's not a quest for Apple to deprive you of donating or selling your used computers.

Apple is paying for the shipment and recycling of old computers to manufacture brand new parts. That's it! It's good for the environment and free to you!

When it does actually die...since I have not just purchased a new computer, I am guessing that I would not qualify for the recycling program.
No, but if you keep computers until they no longer work, then the next time you buy a new one, you can pass off the old one. It requires you to hang onto it a little longer, but it's a small (free) price to pay for keeping totally recyclable goods from a landfill where they'll never break down.

Leoff
Apr 21, 2006, 12:34 PM
How on earth is "giving" your computer back to Apple a good thing????

Does anyone on this forum actually use their brains?

GIVE YOUR OLD COMPUTER TO A SCHOOL OR OTHER CHARITY for goodness sake, take a tax deduction, and do some good rather than giving it back to the same company who is already making a hefty profit on everything it sells you.

I wonder about you people sometimes.


Wonder away, but apparently you haven't been introduced to the real world.

Currently at my college, we're sitting on dozens of various old Macs that 1) have been offered and refused to numerous schools within the area, 2) have been up for sale at rediculously old prices, and 3) have been part of free give-aways. Nobody wants them.

MrCrowbar
Apr 21, 2006, 12:34 PM
[...]It might lead to a huge amount of G3 imac's being turned in for recycling. Is their better press than ensuring 100,000 tons of hazardous waste is being disposed of properly?

Granny Smith move over!

True. I hope you know about the iMac's radiation issues with the CRT...

Kingsly
Apr 21, 2006, 12:38 PM
Good job, Apple.

Multimedia
Apr 21, 2006, 12:46 PM
ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZY?????

How on earth is "giving" your computer back to Apple a good thing????

Does anyone on this forum actually use their brains?

GIVE YOUR OLD COMPUTER TO A SCHOOL OR OTHER CHARITY for goodness sake, take a tax deduction, and do some good rather than giving it back to the same company who is already making a hefty profit on everything it sells you.

I wonder about you people sometimes.I think Apple should be running a program for the poor to refurbish, upgrade with 512MB ram and the latest system each model will work with then distibute them to the poor who can't afford computeres at any price - NOT destroying them to the recycling plants. :mad: :eek: :(

Recycling should mean passing on to the poor NOT passing on to a destructor. :mad:

Chris Bangle
Apr 21, 2006, 12:48 PM
Apple really are a lovely bunch of people.
I have 2 points to make.
1) I reckon they will build the new campus out of all these macs or they will use all these macs in the campus, they may use them as static displays or they may hang them from a tree or make art out of them.
2) I keep my old macs and pods, not only do they look good but the provide a lot of entertainment when bored, i also keep my packaging. Packagings the best bit.

Multimedia
Apr 21, 2006, 12:52 PM
And, of course, there's negative ratings. Who would rate this negative?

Probably someone who wants Apple to pay them for their computer.I rate it SUPER-NEGATIVE BIG TIME BUDDY. This is just another way to keep the poor from ever having access to computers. This makes me very mad. Can't you see that?? :mad: :eek: :eek: :confused:

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 12:54 PM
Apple should be running a program for the poor to refurbish, upgrade with 512MB ram and the latest system each model will work with then distibute them to the poor who can't afford computeres at any price - NOT destroying them to the recycling plants. :mad: :eek: :(

Recycling should mean passing on to the poor NOT passing on to a destructor. :mad:
No, that's reusing. Recycling is stripping down and using the old goods to make new ones. There are plenty of places that will take computers for donation locally...a central operation is highly inefficient for donations. Why send things to a central warehouse and then send them back into the community? For recycling, it makes sense, because the processing is done centrally and the raw goods are passed on to factories.

joepunk
Apr 21, 2006, 12:55 PM
Just out of curiosity, would Apple take an old Performa 550?

rjgjonker
Apr 21, 2006, 01:03 PM
What's so special about a recycling programme? Isn't every company required by law to take back devices they sold? I'm pretty sure they are in Europe.

I agree its rather wasteful to recycle anything that's still usable. I have never brought a working computer to the recycling centre and I can't imagine doing so.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 01:04 PM
Just out of curiosity, would Apple take an old Performa 550?
Of course. That's a perfect computer for this program...effectively useless except for providing raw materials for new components.

mattster16
Apr 21, 2006, 01:15 PM
You get charged to recycle the materials for which your community has agreed to have a recycling service - if those materials include electronic devices, that's great, but if they don't, it would be irresponsible to burden the community recycling system with waste for which they are not responsible.

All citizens are still responsible for everything they purchase and use, and for disposing of them properly. If your community has a service that helps members dispose of certain materials, that doesn't mean they've accepted everyone's responsibility for all waste, only for the contractually, legally specified waste.

Just sayin'. I mean, if you paid for your own personal garbage removal service, you'd have a contract with them about what sort of waste they'd accept, and they'd get plenty pissed if you kept giving them waste they didn't agree to take. It's the same thing here except the city has the contract on your behalf as a citizen.

Personally I wish city services had a way to track garbage from its origin so they could return all the unacceptible materials to the freeloaders front lawns and doorsteps. Or just sort it at the origin and leave the contractually forbidden items there in the first place. Too bad that would all raise the cost, significantly.

EDIT: actually, more than that I wish recycling services would just be all-encompassing and that cities would stop arsing around with "we take this plastic, but not that plastic" type crap. NYC is like that - you can recycle some bottles, but not all ... it makes things more confusing and causes more troubles for them, I should think.

Interesting as we were just learning about this topic in my environmental engineering class. Every modern recycling facility is designed with the idea that tons and tons of non-recyclable material will be sorted. They have a sorter for everything you can think of. When electronics show up they have means to deal with them. In fact 80% of the electronic devices that end up in sorting facilities are brand new. (Mostly retailers dumping off merchandise that can't be sold or merchandise that got slightly damaged.)

When you see bans on what can and can't be recycled it's usually not because the facility can't handle it. It's because there is no demand for the end product. (Ex. Most plastic is ground up and sent to China.) If there is no demand it because unprofitable to process it, hence the 'bans'.

Now who's the bad guy? The person 'freeloading' and putting 'contractually forbidden' items on the curb or the recycling center that tells you to throw certain things in the trash just because they can't make enough money recycling them?

I think what Apple is doing is a great step in the right direction for a US corporation.

jaxstate
Apr 21, 2006, 01:27 PM
Man, I'd never just throw out my old compter. If it happend to just die, i'd rather let it sit and rot in the storage room, rather than send it back to Apple.:rolleyes:

MacFan782040
Apr 21, 2006, 01:28 PM
Should have happened a long time ago, with Jobs being democratic and Al Gore on the board of directors. :rolleyes:

Eniregnat
Apr 21, 2006, 01:28 PM
This is a boon for those of us that live in communities that charge fines for not recycling, charge fees for recycling, and where the re-used Mac market is saturated. Getting an old Mac for free isn't hard, getting one that I would want for free is nearly impossible.

I would even pay for the opportunity to have my Mac recycled when it's end-of-lifed. If I can't give it to somebody or sell it, then I would rather it be recycled by Apple, or one of their sub-contractors.

Quite frankly, I think that we should pre-pay a recycling charge for all electronics- just like we do for disposable containers. It would lower the cost of recycling, improve the number of people that recycle (heck your getting a refund), and it would encourage companies to create "greener" electronics. I have no problem with a sliding levy on machines that are not as easily recycleable.

When you purchase a battery from APC (http://apc.com/index.cfm?isoCountryCode=us) part of the cost includes return mailing and ground shipping for the old battery. So I could go to Radio Shack and get a battery for cheap, but I would end up paying more to recycle the battery in my community (between $1 and $5 dollars per pound). The twin UPSs at my work weigh 150lbs each! Better the buy a new battery every couple of years and have APC deal with the recycling. This is one of the reasons APC rocks.

Go Apple.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 01:29 PM
Now who's the bad guy? The person 'freeloading' and putting 'contractually forbidden' items on the curb or the recycling center that tells you to throw certain things in the trash just because they can't make enough money recycling them?
While true, there are two important things to consider that you're leaving out. One is that yes, modern recycling facilities can indeed handle electronics and lots of other materials that come in, BUT most recycling facilities are NOT "modern." They are only gradually being updated and improved to handle these products.

The other part is that, for better or worse, the decision on what will be recycled is already set. If you put something out that your waste management company tells you to throw in the trash, that means they won't recycle it and it'll still end up in the landfill. The only reason recycled materials wouldn't be profitable is if no one was interested in buying them. If no one buys them, then you just wasted money and time processing them for the landfill.

Mechcozmo
Apr 21, 2006, 01:38 PM
GIVE YOUR OLD COMPUTER TO A SCHOOL OR OTHER CHARITY for goodness sake, take a tax deduction, and do some good rather than giving it back to the same company who is already making a hefty profit on everything it sells you.

I wonder about you people sometimes.

I used to try and give computers to schools. I prepped the computers, etc. However the computers in some schools wouldn't last five minutes. Utterly destroyed. Granted, these were PCs, but I don't think Macs would do much better. The charity I did work for attempted to get computers into the kid's houses... but that didn't work so well since not very many people wanted to go into some of the homes where the kids lived. Very sad.

Not all of the schools were like that however. Some computers lasted a while. But don't just say, "Toss all the old computers into the schools that need it!" since the computers may just end up destroyed and of no use to anyone. Or a potential danger if a CRT is pushed onto the ground.

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 01:40 PM
They can have my Macs when they pry it from my cold dead hand. Period.

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 01:44 PM
Recycling should mean passing on to the poor NOT passing on to a destructor. :mad:
Hear, hear... I couldn't agree more. THAT would be the only reason for me to let my Macs move out of my house. Complete lunacy to destroy computers that aren't broken.

Maxx Power
Apr 21, 2006, 01:46 PM
I'm guessing people vote negatively on this because they know the dark side of eco-PR campaigns. When Dell, IBM, etc big tier makers were caught using prison labour to dump so called "recycled" components into third world villages and let the dying 6 year olds sort it out and burn all the copper out of the plastics to sell them for a living, Dell et all were sued, it was in the news a few years back. But reputable companies still do it at a penalty because it costs way less. When you get "free" recycling, be very careful, since recycling costs a lot of money and labour, companies often off-shore it, and along with it, the poison and low-wage, no safety standards. There are dozens after dozens of pictures of recycle "shops" in China, India, etc, where the people wear rags and burn a bunch of bromine-fire-retardant-added-plastics with various brands on it. There are complete villages abandoned because of the ground water contamination with mercury, lead (CRT tubes, PCB's) and brominated ogranics.

Be very skeptical about "free" recycling. It isn't cheap.

here is some quotes from reputable news sites (Seattle Times):

"Q&A: Important facts about computer recycling

By Tim Johnson

Knight Ridder Newspapers

Some questions and answers about recycling computers:

Q: Why should I be concerned about what happens to my old computer once I erase my personal information?

A: Computers and other electronics contain numerous hazardous materials or metals in the circuitry, monitors and plastic casings.

Monitors: Between 4 and 8 pounds of lead, which can be toxic if ingested. When buried in a landfill, it can leach into groundwater.

Electronics systems and circuit boards: Small amounts of tin, copper, gold, palladium and antimony. Trace amounts of beryllium, mercury and cadmium, all heavy metals and harmful — sometimes carcinogenic — if ingested.

Plastic housings: Presence of flame retardants, such as polybrominated diphenyl ethers, or PBDEs, a toxic substance that builds up over time in human bodies.

Q: What is the federal government doing about exports of e-waste?

A: Nothing. The United States is the only major nation that hasn't ratified the 1994 Basel Convention, which bans exports of hazardous e-waste.

Moreover, the Environmental Protection Agency has no certification process for electronic-waste recyclers. Any company can claim it "recycles" e-waste, when all it might do is export it.
"

nxent
Apr 21, 2006, 01:48 PM
you know, i got excited until i realized i wouldn't be getting any discounts on my new mac purchases... like they have with the ipod. unlike pc's, macs hold their value very well, meaning you can still get a fair amount of money for a 5 year mac (think, 500 Mhz Ti Pbook, or Dual 867 Mhz G4). so this recycle program is only useful for those with... ANCIENT....machines... like my 117 Mhz powerbook 1400c, or my 8 Mhz Macintosh Classic... one of them i was going to turn into a fax machine anyway-

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 01:54 PM
Complete lunacy to destroy computers that aren't broken.
That's just it! That's what this program is for! Computers that are not functional or are so old that they're worth more for their raw materials (basically anything older than a G3/300). If customers choose to send working G5 towers to the recycling plant, then yes, that's silly, but still far superior to tossing it in a dumpster.

ELR
Apr 21, 2006, 02:03 PM
This whole issue of Apple being "green" has finally driven me crazy enought to register for MacRumors and post a thread.

I think that it is absolutely insane that an iMac monitor can not be used as a monitor alone. Computers get outdated super quick and to have to throw away a monitor every time the computer is outdated is crazy and flat out irresponsible of Apple.

The best way to avoid waste is to not generate it in the first place. Apple is generating tons of usuable waste by not allowing the monitor to be used as a monitor.

I like a lot of things about Apple but this issue absolutely pi$$es me off.

ImAlwaysRight
Apr 21, 2006, 02:06 PM
Ring, ring.

"Hello, Apple Computer Recycling..."

"Ah, yes. I just purchased a new Intel MacBook Pro and have this Powerbook G4 I want to get rid of."

"Certainly, Ma'am. We'll send you a postage paid box, all you need to do is carefully pack the computer in the box, and be sure to include any power adapters or other accessories you have for it..."

"You mean, like this 100GB portable firewire hard drive?"

"Yes, Ma'am. Just put all of that in the box and we will be glad to dispose of it for you."

"How sweet of you."

"Glad we can help, Ma'am."

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 02:15 PM
That's just it! That's what this program is for! Computers that are not functional or are so old that they're worth more for their raw materials (basically anything older than a G3/300). If customers choose to send working G5 towers to the recycling plant, then yes, that's silly, but still far superior to tossing it in a dumpster.
I am not so sure. What about all those people that NEVER have experienced a computer. Not necessarily people living in industrialized nations. Donating the computer to them is a much better alternative than the sub-$100 computer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501546.html).
What is non-functional computer to you is a marvel of technology to others...

chepistolas
Apr 21, 2006, 02:17 PM
Do you? THIS IS FOR COMPUTERS THAT PEOPLE WOULD OTHERWISE THROW AWAY. It is meant to keep computers out of landfills, it's not a quest for Apple to deprive you of donating or selling your used computers.

Apple is paying for the shipment and recycling of old computers to manufacture brand new parts. That's it! It's good for the environment and free to you!

No, but if you keep computers until they no longer work, then the next time you buy a new one, you can pass off the old one. It requires you to hang onto it a little longer, but it's a small (free) price to pay for keeping totally recyclable goods from a landfill where they'll never break down.


Thank YOU!

People this program is to get rid of YOUR NON-WORKING/BROKEN computers that are collecting dust, NOT COMPUTERS THAT ARE STILL WORKING. only stupid people would send back a working computer back to apple.

One should care about the enviroment and take the initiative to help clean the enviroment. Normaly it costs YOU money to dispose of a BROKEN computer, but apple is helping YOU OUT by doing this service for free. They are already helping you out! so there is no need for them to give you a discount for a BROKEN computer that normaly you would have to pay to throw a way! WHY CAN'T PEOPLE READ CAREFULLY?!

And no this is not curtailing the chances of poor people's access to computers. AGAIN, these are BROKEN COMPUTERS THAT WOULD GO TO THE LANDFILL.

I sometimes wonder why people can't grasp the easiest things.

Eniregnat
Apr 21, 2006, 02:17 PM
I'm guessing people vote negatively on this because they know the dark side of eco-PR campaigns. ...
Be very skeptical about "free" recycling. It isn't cheap.
...

You are quite right with this. This is where the cult of Mac has brainwashed me, I expect Apple to do the right thing and not ship off the computers to other countries. I may be naive, but since the city I live in and Silicon Valley do have disassembly plants (the SV ones do all the work front to back), I expect that Apple may use them. Until proven otherwise, I will put the benefit of the doubt in Apple's favor.

Though I like the way you think. I am still in favor of a prepaid recycling levy. In any case, nothing is free. We pay for it when we buy our computer.

lazyboy922
Apr 21, 2006, 02:18 PM
And, of course, there's negative ratings. Who would rate this negative?

Probably someone who wants Apple to pay them for their computer.



Yes, I want the $2,000 I shelled out for my Performa 550!!!! :-)

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 02:23 PM
I am not so sure. What about all those people that NEVER have experienced a computer. Not necessarily people living in industrialized nations. Donating the computer to them is a much better alternative than the sub-$100 computer (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501546.html).
What is non-functional computer to you is a marvel of technology to others...
A non-functional computer is a paperweight. As for functional computers, there's a point at which they are not useful for anyone, even people who have never had a computer at all--what would they do with a computer that couldn't run a modern web browser or connect to printers, let alone use an operating system that was contemporaneous with the rest of the world? Furthermore, in non-industrialized nations, where would they get power or Internet access, or even ink for printers? In this country, our own underprivileged are best served with computer access in community centers and libraries, where they don't have to worry about troubleshooting, power bills, internet access fees, and where there are people to help them use a computer. If you want to help people so poor that they've never encountered a computer, handing them an old computer isn't the way to do it.

The sub-$100 computer project is a new computer for the developing world, and a great idea. But that link you give supports shredding and smelting these old clunkers and using those raw materials in new computers that actually might be of some use to someone.

mattster16
Apr 21, 2006, 02:27 PM
This whole issue of Apple being "green" has finally driven me crazy enought to register for MacRumors and post a thread.

I think that it is absolutely insane that an iMac monitor can not be used as a monitor alone. Computers get outdated super quick and to have to throw away a monitor every time the computer is outdated is crazy and flat out irresponsible of Apple.

The best way to avoid waste is to not generate it in the first place. Apple is generating tons of usuable waste by not allowing the monitor to be used as a monitor.

I like a lot of things about Apple but this issue absolutely pi$$es me off.

Couldn't agree more, although the iMac might not be quite as wasteful as you make it out to be. Most people (especially in the PC world) get a new monitor when they get a new computer since they come packaged.

I love the iMac, but noone can argue that it is not somewhat unnecessarily wasteful. The hierarchy of waste management:

1. source reduction
2. recycling / reuse
3. incineration (hopefully w/ energy production)
4. landfill

Apple is skipping to number 2 and currently most likely 3 or 4 (plastics are regularly incinerated, plastics = carbon structure = pure energy) on this for no reason other than asthetics. At least Apple is helping to promote recycling.

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 02:29 PM
AGAIN, these are BROKEN COMPUTERS THAT WOULD GO TO THE LANDFILL.
Seriously, how many computers actually breaks beyond repair? 99% of all computers just get too old to run the latest and greatest on. Moreover, a broken computer can also be viewed as a pile of computer components where most of the component works. My point is that these computers would do MUCH more good in the hands of peopel deprived of ANY computer experience. They can learn from these machines and these computers would be able to propel computer illiterate people in a much more cost effective way than the sub-$100 project.

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 02:45 PM
A non-functional computer is a paperweight. As for functional computers, there's a point at which they are not useful for anyone, even people who have never had a computer at all--what would they do with a computer that couldn't run a modern web browser or connect to printers, let alone use an operating system that was contemporaneous with the rest of the world? Furthermore, in non-industrialized nations, where would they get power or Internet access, or even ink for printers? In this country, our own underprivileged are best served with computer access in community centers and libraries, where they don't have to worry about troubleshooting, power bills, internet access fees, and where there are people to help them use a computer. If you want to help people so poor that they've never encountered a computer, handing them an old computer isn't the way to do it.
I don't think internet access and printing is the biggest problem. It is about getting people that perhaps only have read one book in their life to experience computers. Remember that less than a decade ago these computers where top-of-the-line in our society. If I remember it correctly, the total computing power that sent the man to the moon was equivalent to a intel 286. You do NOT need massive computing power or a flashy GPU's to learn about computers. In the short run, it is about making people computer literate. In the long run, it is about making them able to get what we have. They dont need a modern computer right away for that. Besides, there are more to computers than using them. We all know that you can learn a great deal by dismantling a computer. I doubt the sub-$100 computer is designed that way.
Moreover, the sub-$100 computer as it is proposed today is very far to what we would call a computer. Isn't it better if they get to experience a real computer? I am quite sure they will get a much better understanding of how a modern computer is built and how it works, by getting to know a couple of year old computer rather than a benevolent MIT experiment gone wild.
The sub-$100 computer project is a new computer for the developing world, and a great idea. But that link you give supports shredding and smelting these old clunkers and using those raw materials in new computers that actually might be of some use to someone. I provided the link to illustrate what the sub $100 computer project was all about. I applaude their effort, but I don't agree that this is the best way to go about it. But that is my opinion.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 02:46 PM
Moreover, a broken computer can also be viewed as a pile of computer components where most of the component works. My point is that these computers would do MUCH more good in the hands of peopel deprived of ANY computer experience.
Diagnosing broken components, searching for replacements in the piles of hardware, reassembling, wiping hard drives, and installing software is tremendously time- and labor-intensive. Furthermore, one of the most common failures is some part of the mainboard, many of which are proprietary in some significant way (throughout the entire industry), meaning that replacements could only be pulled from the same specific model. Then you run into the licensing problem, which could easily add substantial cost to the effort. It's a waste of time and resources to piece together obsolete computers when a brand new budget PC costs barely more.

Why should people with no computer experience be handed someone else's trash? Why can't they learn what everyone else is currently using and take part in the world as it exists today? With Dell specials occasionally diving to $299, it's hard to argue for the expense of rehabilitating junk. Instead, programs to supply low-cost computers through community programs (Apple does this, as does Microsoft) should be the norm.

Added:
It is about getting these people computer literate. it is about making them able to get what we have. They dont need a modern computer right away for that. Besides, there is more to computers than just the use of them.
Getting them computer literate in "what we have" absolutely means giving them access to "a modern computer." There's nothing more than the "use of them" when you can't even get as far as using them. For people who have "read one book" in their entire lives, what is a computer with no internet access and no power supposed to teach them? That we make fancy metal boxes that could do something for them if they had a more developed civil infrastructure? It's demeaning to think that they'd be grateful for our trash just because it's more than what they have.

sam10685
Apr 21, 2006, 02:54 PM
good idea...

yac_moda
Apr 21, 2006, 03:00 PM
COULD THIS BE BECAUSE APPLE IS ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE THE iPods ARE GOING ALL FLASH !!!

Or maybe small flash laptop.

Either way flash is so much faster then hard-dives they could EASILY recycle the flash in older devices and use in a laptop -- there is LOTs of extra room inside laptops these days.

And I suppose ANY flash even 20 pieces to make up a hard-drive would still be smaller then most laptop hard-drives :eek: :eek: :eek:


I TOLD APPLE TO DO THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO :cool:

Well, actually I told them to used OLD outdated flash to replace hard-drives in the laptops, where there is plenty of extra room. And to make a Massive order of flash for iPods at super low prices, this way production can be ramped up easily as needed, and when they end up with left overs in their flash warehouse use the OLD flash for laptops.

There's GOLD in them thar old hardwares !!!

mister880
Apr 21, 2006, 03:07 PM
No service or bundle is free it's all built into the price of a new computer from the CD-ROM drive to the towel the tech used to blow his nose while working on a the assembly of your computer.

This is an expensive add on for Apple and no doubt it will be passed off to the consumer. I say rubish!

Kevin:mad:

Eniregnat
Apr 21, 2006, 03:08 PM
COULD THIS BE BECAUSE APPLE IS ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE THE iPods ARE GOING ALL FLASH !!!

Or maybe small flash laptop.

Either way flash is so much faster then hard-dives they could EASILY recycle the flash in older devices and use in a laptop -- there is LOTs of extra room inside laptops these days.

And I suppose ANY flash even 20 pieces to make up a hard-drive would still be smaller then most laptop hard-drives :eek: :eek: :eek:


I TOLD APPLE TO DO THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO :cool:

Cartman, what the hell are you talking about? (http://www.psci.net/marley/rainbow.wav)
Why would converting to flash memory drives cause Apple to offer recycling?

nicksoper
Apr 21, 2006, 03:10 PM
Personally, I wouldn't want to give away my 3 year old 17 inch powerbook, when I buy a new macbook. It works great and will work as a dvd player for years to come, but I think recycling is a great step and a great way for apple to lead by example.

I'm not sure how anyone could vote negatively for apple doing this, even if it just in the states. One pile of plastic and silicon that is not put in a landfill site is positive all round isn't it? And this can only lead to more of the samething from other caring suppliers. Positive all round I say.

yac_moda
Apr 21, 2006, 03:11 PM
Cartman, what the hell are you talking about?
Why would converting to flash memory drives cause Apple to offer recycling?

Oh, rainbows!

I can't HELP YOU !!!


I made that chilly you are eating from your relatives :eek: :eek: :eek:

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 03:13 PM
Diagnosing broken components, searching for replacements in the piles of hardware, reassembling, wiping hard drives, and installing software is tremendously time- and labor-intensive.
I agree, but all that could be done at location with help from skilled computer techies. In that way you would not just learn the how to operate a computer but also how to build it and how to fix it.
Furthermore, one of the most common failures is some part of the mainboard, many of which are proprietary in some significant way (throughout the entire industry), meaning that replacements could only be pulled from the same specific model. Then you run into the licensing problem, which could easily add substantial cost to the effort.
First of all, I believe that more or less all retired computers are still functioning. Secondly, you can still learn a lot from computer "trash" even if you are not able to build functioning computer from it.

It's a waste of time and resources to piece together obsolete computers when a brand new budget PC costs barely more.

Why should people with no computer experience be handed someone else's trash? Why can't they learn what everyone else is currently using and take part in the world as it exists today? With Dell specials occasionally diving to $299, it's hard to argue for the expense of rehabilitating junk.
$299 times x =money, vs. $0 times x = free. Moreover one solution doesn't exclude the other. There is nothing preventing us from doing both. My point is that I think there is a larger value in an old computer as a computer than as a chunk of metal.

Instead, programs to supply low-cost computers through community programs (Apple does this, as does Microsoft) should be the norm.
I couldn't agree more. But as I said one solution doesn't exclude the other. But now we are not talking about the sub-$100 computer.
I think we agree in that we should help less fortunate, we just might differ in how we should go about it.

portent
Apr 21, 2006, 03:20 PM
World Computer Exchange (http://www.worldcomputerexchange.org/) is only interested in "working Pentium II and above" systems.

Computers For Charities (http://www.computersforcharities.co.uk/) (UK) is only interested in Pentium III and non-beige Macs.

The National Cristina Foundation (https://www.cristina.org) won't take anything less than a Pentium II, but they'll take any Power Mac or Apple laptop.

Share The Technology (http://www.sharetechnology.org/) also requires a Pentium II, or any Power Mac

That's just a random sample, of the ones I could find quickly. If you've got a Quadra or a Pentium I, you're out of luck. And just try getting anyone to take a broken computer. (Except for organizations that use them to train students in PC repair.)

chepistolas
Apr 21, 2006, 03:24 PM
Seriously, how many computers actually breaks beyond repair? 99% of all computers just get too old to run the latest and greatest on. Moreover, a broken computer can also be viewed as a pile of computer components where most of the component works. My point is that these computers would do MUCH more good in the hands of peopel deprived of ANY computer experience. They can learn from these machines and these computers would be able to propel computer illiterate people in a much more cost effective way than the sub-$100 project.

Frankeinstein computers = creating a computer from tons of little pieces of broken computers.

Even if you do create an organization for the poor to create frankenstein computers you will need the same amout of support and money that recycling plants need or possibly even more resources. And even if you do get that much support you will only help the computer Illiterate learn how to type in TextEdit or code in basic. In order to actually help out the poor become more litterate with computers, then spend that time and the support from others to raise money and buy $299 dells. For the poor to actually benefit and recieve a way out of their situation they need to learn the skills society uses. Using Frankeinstein computers only limits poor people to the technology of 10-12 years ago. What are they going to do then? Somehow they now have to find a way to buy a new computer to learn the technology of today. I believe that helping out the poor and under priviliedged people is another issue. Lets recycle old computers and possibly lower the costs of new ones. And if we want to help out the poor then lets help them have access to the computers and tools of today. This only helps society go foward instead of creating a gap.

Where is the correct spelling button?

yac_moda
Apr 21, 2006, 03:28 PM
No service or bundle is free it's all built into the price of a new computer from the CD-ROM drive to the towel the tech used to blow his nose while working on a the assembly of your computer.

This is an expensive add on for Apple and no doubt it will be passed off to the consumer. I say rubish!

Kevin:mad:

The greatest value in taking old MACchines back, in a conventional world, is to have your techs look at them and see how well the parts are holding up, and how often reported tech issues show up.

Customers OFTEN DO NOT COMPLAIN when they have a problem they just buy from someone else, or they live with it and get a new machine.

I AN UNCONVENTIONAL WORLD Apple would gain great value from using the old Flash from the old machines and they would build Macs from carbon nano-tubes OR HOLY bioconsumable HOTDOGs BATMAN !, what if they are going to MAKE EVERYTHING FROM TRANSPARENT ALUMINUM :eek: :eek: :eek:

These materials are SOOO strong they could just polish the case up and use them again -- maybe they are implementing my TOTALLY MODULAR AND LOCKABLE HARDENED CASE LAPTOP DESIGN I begged them to do years ago -- they modularize the iMac about half a year after my suggestions.

joeconvert
Apr 21, 2006, 03:30 PM
i wouldn't mind like 5% off the purchase of a new computer or something, just some very small incentive.....
do u think the apple genius can fix my old LC, it doesn't work.... just sitting their..

Wow.

Just doing something decently for the world around you isn't enough.


Not like Apple is trying to make money on this, there are substanial cost with proper disposal and recycling of old machines.

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 03:32 PM
Getting them computer literate in "what we have" absolutely means giving them access to "a modern computer."
The sub-$100 computer is not will not be a modern computer as we know it.
There's nothing more than the "use of them" when you can't even get as far as using them. For people who have "read one book" in their entire lives, what is a computer with no internet access and no power supposed to teach them?
Most retired computers are still working. You don't need internet access to use a computer. I used computers pre-internet, so I know you can do it. :)
I did spend some time couple of years ago backpacking through remote areas in Africa and South-America. My impression was that most villages had electricity.
That we make fancy metal boxes that could do something for them if they had a more developed civil infrastructure? It's demeaning to think that they'd be grateful for our trash just because it's more than what they have.
I think you misunderstood me. I think there is a higher value in the computers we discard, than just the metal value minus the trashing cost. The western world have spent decades on talking how we should help less fortunate people. Grand idea has been proposed. Unfortunately, not much has happened. Take a tour through Mombasa and you will get an idea. Electricity but not one computer. Not even a broken "fancy metal box". I can bet you more or less all I own that if you travel over there in ten years time it will look more or less the same. They don't **** if the computer is old. Trust me on that.

p0intblank
Apr 21, 2006, 03:40 PM
This is cool of Apple. :)

But why are some people giving this story a Negative? :(

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 03:41 PM
Frankeinstein computers = creating a computer from tons of little pieces of broken computers.

Even if you do create an organization for the poor to create frankenstein computers you will need the same amout of support and money that recycling plants need or possibly even more resources. And even if you do get that much support you will only help the computer Illiterate learn how to type in TextEdit or code in basic. In order to actually help out the poor become more litterate with computers, then spend that time and the support from others to raise money and buy $299 dells. For the poor to actually benefit and recieve a way out of their situation they need to learn the skills society uses. Using Frankeinstein computers only limits poor people to the technology of 10-12 years ago. What are they going to do then? Somehow they now have to find a way to buy a new computer to learn the technology of today. I believe that helping out the poor and under priviliedged people is another issue. Lets recycle old computers and possibly lower the costs of new ones. And if we want to help out the poor then lets help them have access to the computers and tools of today. This only helps society go foward instead of creating a gap.

Where is the correct spelling button?

Hmmm, I think we are talking about different under priviliedged people. Your idea might work in some areas in US. You have no idea how fast knowledge travels when the learning is done on the locals own terms. Fancy projects where you hand out new, in their mind tremendously expensive, equipment often ends up as a new learjet/swiss condo for the local chief. The idea of helping under priviliedged people in poor countries isn't new. Unfortunately, most efforts seem to end up with the poor being just as poor and illiterate as they were before.

sishaw
Apr 21, 2006, 03:52 PM
COULD THIS BE BECAUSE APPLE IS ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE THE iPods ARE GOING ALL FLASH !!!

Or maybe small flash laptop.

Either way flash is so much faster then hard-dives they could EASILY recycle the flash in older devices and use in a laptop -- there is LOTs of extra room inside laptops these days.

And I suppose ANY flash even 20 pieces to make up a hard-drive would still be smaller then most laptop hard-drives :eek: :eek: :eek:


I TOLD APPLE TO DO THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO :cool:

Well, actually I told them to used OLD outdated flash to replace hard-drives in the laptops, where there is plenty of extra room. And to make a Massive order of flash for iPods at super low prices, this way production can be ramped up easily as needed, and when they end up with left overs in their flash warehouse use the OLD flash for laptops.

There's GOLD in them thar old hardwares !!!

...or was it through the radio transmitter the Government implanted in your teeth?

iowamensan
Apr 21, 2006, 03:58 PM
This is a good thing, but may be hard to do on a large scale. I am a technology coordinator for a K-12 school, and we are still trying to get rid of all of our non-beige Macs and dead iMacs. It costs us $12 per CRT to dispose of them. We have an entire closet full of monitors from IIe's and such that we haven't gotten rid of because of cost. This summer I am looking at buying about 80 or so Macs and this would be a good chance to unload all of our junk.
I dread the idea though of having to box them all up and arrange for pickup.
Those who are suggesting to give everything old to schools, I'm sorry but we don't want your junk either. Now, if it is something from the last 3-4 years or so, sure. But from a school employee standpoint, an "old" computer is 7 or 8 years old. We have to get the most life out of them as we can.
If anyone is wondering why I am getting 80 macs in one summer, it is because I want to load up on eMacs before I fear they will be discontinued. I really hope Apple doesn't kill it off, as there are really no other viable school lab choices. but that is a different story.

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 04:11 PM
[quote]you can still learn a lot from computer "trash" even if you are not able to build functioning computer from it.
No, you can't. It's just a piece of useless crap to someone who's never hard a computer. The only value in playing around in a non-functioning computer is how to use a screwdriver, and I'd wager that almost anyone in the world could handle that without learning on the broken computer.

$299 times x =money, vs. $0 times x = free. Moreover one solution doesn't exclude the other. There is nothing preventing us from doing both. My point is that I think there is a larger value in an old computer as a computer than as a chunk of metal.
It's not $0 times x. You have to pay for storage, transportation, labor, software licensing, and so on. You're also giving up the $x per unit that comes from the recycled bits.


I couldn't agree more. But as I said one solution doesn't exclude the other.
Sure it excludes the other. A broken computer can't both be rebuilt and recycled. Working, relatively recent computers should be donated to community centers and local programs, absolutely. But the computers destined for this program shouldn't be saved from the dead--there's just no point in sorting the working or the repairable ones from the piles of computers that will come in, because almost no one would throw away a perfectly good computer.

I think we agree that access to technology should be improved. But I think that this program is not where one should look for secondhand computers and that criticism for this program is unfounded. Too many people seem to think that Apple wants their working G4 PowerBooks when they buy an Intel MacBook--that's not it at all. Why get rid of one computer just because you bought a new one? Most people would just then have two computers. This program is for people with computers they were planning on setting out with the rest of the trash, which Apple is now intercepting so that they can be recycled into brand new computers and saved from the landfill.

But naturally, there are going to be dozens more comments about "they want my computer 4 free r they crazy LOLZ!!1" before this thread is done. Gotta love the Internet, eh?

added:
The sub-$100 computer is not will not be a modern computer as we know it.
I'm not talking about the sub-$100 computers. If you want to teach people in developing countries to be computer literate, it's only fair to give them modern computers. The super-cheap laptop is designed for a different purpose than computer literacy.

Most retired computers are still working. You don't need internet access to use a computer. I used computers pre-internet, so I know you can do it. :)
I did spend some time couple of years ago backpacking through remote areas in Africa and South-America. My impression was that most villages had electricity.
What people need most in the developing world is a connection to the rest of the world. They don't lead our same kind of lifestyle. What did you do with your computer before the Internet? Word processing is a little pointless without printers or the Internet. Games? They're not going to marvel at being able to play Solitaire without a deck of cards.

And most villages do have electricity, but it's not plentiful, reliable, or cheap. One thing you probably noticed was that they generally tried to avoid electric lights--none of the six lamps per room style that is typical over here. Adding a computer adds a tremendous burden to very limited power grids, and try as I might, I can't think of a practical use for a computer without the Internet.

They don't **** if the computer is old. Trust me on that.
That's not the issue. If you hand them a 486 with no Internet and no printer, it is a thoroughly useless power hog. Having a computer isn't going to change anything if they don't have a use for it.

Whiteapple
Apr 21, 2006, 04:12 PM
Yet another reason to like apple.

I am curious as to whether this is 'America - Only' though? Have i missed a paragraph answering this?

zis is becoze zi americans dou not pollut, laike wi ze french people dou...:)

milatchi
Apr 21, 2006, 04:21 PM
Old Macs are not like old Phonebooks. You just don't collect them and recycle them every couple of years.
An old Mac is like a fine wine It gets better with age.

misterman8
Apr 21, 2006, 04:33 PM
Marie Antoinette would be proud of all of us tonight...

Does anyone really think that what is keeping the underprivileged down is a dearth of good computing? Last time I passed by a man sleeping on the sidewalk his sign didn't read, "will work for a 486 or Apple ][". Maybe the real solution lies in some sort of reformed social welfare or education system, or maybe something smaller like a few of us who are having an easier time spending a saturday afternoon teaching computing at a local shelter instead of thinking of all the reasons why apple's latest move to improve environmental quality is really a way to keep the disadvantaged down...

And I know its been almost 8 months since I lived in the States, but last time I checked it still is a free country, right? I mean if its not I am staying over here. Apple doesn't say you have to turn in your old computer when you buy a new one. They're just saying, "Hey, if your going to trash that old computer we'll take it and make sure its handled properly." I think its great that they are offering this service. I don't know how many people will actually use it, but its nice that its there if you want it.

MacTruck
Apr 21, 2006, 04:50 PM
When Dell, IBM, etc big tier makers were caught using prison labour to dump so called "recycled" components into third world villages and let the dying 6 year olds sort it out and burn all the copper out of the plastics to sell them for a living
"

Gives convicts and kids something to do. Cool. :D

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 04:59 PM
No, you can't. It's just a piece of useless crap to someone who's never hard a computer. The only value in playing around in a non-functioning computer is how to use a screwdriver, and I'd wager that almost anyone in the world could handle that without learning on the broken computer.
Well, I don't see how we can get any further here. I guess we just have to agree to disagree (even if that is theoretically impossible)

It's not $0 times x. You have to pay for storage, transportation, labor, software licensing, and so on. You're also giving up the $x per unit that comes from the recycled bits.
Hmmm, I tried to avoid a too lengthly cost analyze of the problem. First of all, it cost to recycle. The value you get from a computer that is totaly recycled is less than it cost. Here too you have a cost for transportation, labor, recycling facilities, and so on. The cost of recycling is higher than your profit. If not, do you really think we would have had landfills??? It woul be like burning up money.

Sure it excludes the other. A broken computer can't both be rebuilt and recycled.
:confused: What I meant was, you can both provide used computers as well as new to the people that needs it.

[snip] ...because almost no one would throw away a perfectly good computer.
Have you ever visited dump in a industrialized country? I can see you would be surprised...
I think we agree that access to technology should be improved. But I think that this program is not where one should look for secondhand computers and that criticism for this program is unfounded.
We agree and I am all for recycling, if we are talking about non-reusable trash. However, I sense that your definition of trash differs from mine.
Most people have no idea that the total environmental cost for recycling in many cases is higher if you recycle instead of burning it in industrial furnaces . There is a reason why universities have a enviromental engineers program. ;)
Too many people seem to think that Apple wants their working G4 PowerBooks when they buy an Intel MacBook
Many recycling programs have ended up in a situation where people are trading in functional gadget (not necessarily computers) providing they buy a new gadget as a result of a too high discount. The rationale behind these programs has not been a concern about the environament, but rather an attempt to spicture the company in question as an enviromentally friendly producer. The end result being additional enviromental cost.

Bottomline: Saving the planet isn't as easy as one might think it is.

Psychic Shopper
Apr 21, 2006, 05:06 PM
It'sa sobering thought to realise that one day your expensive mac will be a piece of trash

Photorun
Apr 21, 2006, 05:10 PM
I rate it SUPER-NEGATIVE BIG TIME BUDDY. This is just another way to keep the poor from ever having access to computers. This makes me very mad. Can't you see that?? :mad: :eek: :eek: :confused:

Give me a break buddy. First up, if you're poor, get a job and/or there are computers at libraries to use for FREE so use one of those to get a job. Secondly not all poor people WANT to use computers and/or even if you have a computer you still need electricity, you need to pay for that, and the internet, etc. etc.

Additionally many old computers aren't even worth their price. Computers DO die. I have in my basement a completely DOA iMac (original variety), Wallstreet Powerbook with a fried motherboard, and an iBook that my nephew cracked the screen closing something inside of it. I always have a bunch of old peecee in the basement as well that may run Win95 maybe possibly if at all, I've given away parts off them.

You're overreacting thinking "everyone has perfectly GOOD computers and yeah buddy, we're holding them out from the poor" or Apple is only taking perfectly fine computers to destroy. Horse manure! I have some perfectly not WORK computers I can send back to Apple that I can't just take to a dump. Did you think of that?

I donated a bunch of old Macs to a local minority-owned coffee shop so they could have a little internet cafe (in exchange for free coffee when I go in there but they threw that in) so yes, old computers are good for some things but not ALL are good, many aren't good for anything.

Apple sticking it to the poor, wow buddy, you take the cake for over-the-top antics on this one, you're not even being disingenuous... you're being incoherent.

Photorun
Apr 21, 2006, 05:14 PM
blah blah blah non-logic poor reasoned blah

Give me your address, I'll get a U-Haul and round up as many non-working computers and come dump them on your lawn or in your livingroom. Then you can go about making them all working in your spare time so you can "help" the people you seem so adamant could use broken junk. Heck, poor people would be mad at you for giving them that junk.

MacTruck
Apr 21, 2006, 05:30 PM
Give me your address, I'll get a U-Haul and round up as many non-working computers and come dump them on your lawn or in your livingroom. Then you can go about making them all working in your spare time so you can "help" the people you seem so adamant could use broken junk. Heck, poor people would be mad at you for giving them that junk.


I grew up with a used black and white TV. No vcr, no cable. We were poor. If somebody gave me a computer that turned on I would have **** myself. I love how people with money think everyone has money too.

Eniregnat
Apr 21, 2006, 05:35 PM
Rather than respond to any one person's post I'll state this:
One person's garbage can be come another persons/non-profits costly pile of junk.

I work for an NPO that uses a lot of computers. I also volunteer my time, to help those that can't afford computers or support. Honestly, I don't spend much time helping, but I know it makes a diffrence.

Computers are really only good if licensed current licensed software is supplied. Even with volume licensing, and "gifts in kind" os and software support it's pricey and time consuming. Aged computers often fustrate people who end up using dissimular computers, applications and OS. This is often frustrating.

People often attempt to drop off their aged computer (with mechanical problems) and think that they are doing the NPO a favor. It takes time, money, and equipment to ready a computer for use. Mac's are easy, Apple is not too finicky about licensing, but WinTell computers can be a bear to set up. The older the machine, often the more difficult it is. Many places will take donated computer for parts. In the end, think of why it junk to you? It's much like when people donate worn out clothing to non-profit thrift stores. That oil stained hole ridden T-shirt is just going into their trash. At some point most tech products, even if re purposed for decades end up as waste.

If you are going to donate your computer please clean it up, install the OS and software, and transfer the software licences and keys if you can.

Actually, if anybody is really interested in getting computers into the hands for those that can't afford them, look in your local community for a NPO or group that helps refurbish computers for those of need and PROVIDE TRAINING and SUPPORT.

Volunteer Match (http://www.volunteermatch.org/) is a great place to start. Stop wanking about the problem and do something NOW!

Whistleway
Apr 21, 2006, 05:54 PM
Great. Where's Apple UK's recycling program?? :mad:

Oh, please. It's a freaking american company. What did u expect?

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 06:08 PM
Give me your address, I'll get a U-Haul and round up as many non-working computers and come dump them on your lawn or in your livingroom. Then you can go about making them all working in your spare time so you can "help" the people you seem so adamant could use broken junk. Heck, poor people would be mad at you for giving them that junk.
Dude, you should seriously consider getting some perspective. Did you even bother reading what I wrote???
People, like yourself, have been shooting of hot air for years about how people in under-privilege countries will be offended by small efforts. The most successful (and cheapest) anti-poverty program so far has been the micro-credit program, providing small loans ($25-$500) to poor people so they can help themselves out of poverty. I am quite sure you would have consider that too as an insult to poor people. An estimated 500 million poor people has been helped by this program so far.
You apparently don't have a clue under what circumstances poor people live under. Make yourself a big favor and try to get yourself informed on the subject.

Dr.Gargoyle
Apr 21, 2006, 06:40 PM
Rather than respond to any one person's post I'll state this:
One person's garbage can be come another persons/non-profits costly pile of junk.

I work for an NPO that uses a lot of computers. I also volunteer my time, to help those that can't afford computers or support. Honestly, I don't spend much time helping, but I know it makes a diffrence.

Computers are really only good if licensed current licensed software is supplied. Even with volume licensing, and "gifts in kind" os and software support it's pricey and time consuming. Aged computers often fustrate people who end up using dissimular computers, applications and OS. This is often frustrating.

People often attempt to drop off their aged computer (with mechanical problems) and think that they are doing the NPO a favor. It takes time, money, and equipment to ready a computer for use. Mac's are easy, Apple is not too finicky about licensing, but WinTell computers can be a bear to set up. The older the machine, often the more difficult it is. Many places will take donated computer for parts. In the end, think of why it junk to you? It's much like when people donate worn out clothing to non-profit thrift stores. That oil stained hole ridden T-shirt is just going into their trash. At some point most tech products, even if re purposed for decades end up as waste.

If you are going to donate your computer please clean it up, install the OS and software, and transfer the software licences and keys if you can.

Actually, if anybody is really interested in getting computers into the hands for those that can't afford them, look in your local community for a NPO or group that helps refurbish computers for those of need and PROVIDE TRAINING and SUPPORT.

Volunteer Match (http://www.volunteermatch.org/) is a great place to start. Stop wanking about the problem and do something NOW!
Oil stained hole ridden T-shirts doesn't end up in the trash, but are actually gratefully accepted in many poor countries. I think the apparent confusion in this thread stems from just how poor the underprivilege people are. I do realize that it is a problem when people donate things local charities in western societies that can't be used helping people, but rather inflicts a cost to the charity. However, that is (unfortunately) an unique western society problem. Poor people in underprivilege countries like Africa gratefully accept what we call "junk". If you ever get to see the absolute total state of destitution first hand, you realize they are in a desperate need of more or less everything... and they need it NOW. Not tomorrow, but now.

lostngone
Apr 21, 2006, 07:37 PM
How on earth is "giving" your computer back to Apple a good thing????

Does anyone on this forum actually use their brains?

GIVE YOUR OLD COMPUTER TO A SCHOOL OR OTHER CHARITY for goodness sake, take a tax deduction, and do some good rather than giving it back to the same company who is already making a hefty profit on everything it sells you.

I wonder about you people sometimes.


The schools in my area don't want computers unless they are less then a year old. As far as Charity she isn't talking to me anymore. :)

yac_moda
Apr 21, 2006, 08:45 PM
Did something just happen to the Apple's servers :confused:

I could not get on for a while ...

... now they are running as fast as normal :eek:

yac_moda
Apr 21, 2006, 08:48 PM
We IS gonna run Windows XP apps NATIVELY :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/04/21/os.x.to.run.windows.apps/

"OS X to run Windows XP apps natively?

Apple may be planning to implement the Windows API (Application Programming Interfaces) directly in Mac OS X 10.5, which would allow Mac users to run Windows XP applications natively in Mac OS X without rebooting and without the need for virtualization software. Robert Cringely, in his latest column, also reiterated that Apple may migrate Mac OS X to a faster kernel, abandoning the older Mach microkernel presently in use. Apple and Microsoft in 1997 agreed to a five-year patent cross-licensing agreement, which ended in August of 2002 -- 10 months after Windows XP began shipping. The columnist believes Apple may be planning to utilize Microsoft's own Windows API, coupled with a faster kernel under the hood to offer users the ability to run Windows XP applications natively from their Mac OS X desktop, with the optional ability to dual-boot into Windows Vista once it ships in 2007." :eek:


I told you before that they could do this, especially if they used the Transitive software to get Windows apps to make Mac OS X calls for interface widgets, then they would LOOK MACish :eek: :D

finalcoolman
Apr 21, 2006, 09:04 PM
We IS gonna run Windows XP apps NATIVELY :eek: :eek: :eek:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/06/04/21/os.x.to.run.windows.apps/

"OS X to run Windows XP apps natively?

Apple may be planning to implement the Windows API (Application Programming Interfaces) directly in Mac OS X 10.5, which would allow Mac users to run Windows XP applications natively in Mac OS X without rebooting and without the need for virtualization software. Robert Cringely, in his latest column, also reiterated that Apple may migrate Mac OS X to a faster kernel, abandoning the older Mach microkernel presently in use. Apple and Microsoft in 1997 agreed to a five-year patent cross-licensing agreement, which ended in August of 2002 -- 10 months after Windows XP began shipping. The columnist believes Apple may be planning to utilize Microsoft's own Windows API, coupled with a faster kernel under the hood to offer users the ability to run Windows XP applications natively from their Mac OS X desktop, with the optional ability to dual-boot into Windows Vista once it ships in 2007." :eek:


I told you before that they could do this, especially if they used the Transitive software to get Windows apps to make Mac OS X calls for interface widgets, then they would LOOK MACish :eek: :D

While cool, what the hell does this have to do with Apple's recycling program?

aarongobo
Apr 21, 2006, 09:14 PM
Well...

I wonder how many people have a computer that wouldn't be worth at least 100 dollars that are buying a brand NEW mac... I don't think that many computers will be sent there way with this program.

sam10685
Apr 21, 2006, 09:35 PM
COULD THIS BE BECAUSE APPLE IS ABOUT TO ANNOUNCE THE iPods ARE GOING ALL FLASH !!!

Or maybe small flash laptop.

Either way flash is so much faster then hard-dives they could EASILY recycle the flash in older devices and use in a laptop -- there is LOTs of extra room inside laptops these days.

And I suppose ANY flash even 20 pieces to make up a hard-drive would still be smaller then most laptop hard-drives :eek: :eek: :eek:


I TOLD APPLE TO DO THIS ABOUT A YEAR AGO :cool:

Well, actually I told them to used OLD outdated flash to replace hard-drives in the laptops, where there is plenty of extra room. And to make a Massive order of flash for iPods at super low prices, this way production can be ramped up easily as needed, and when they end up with left overs in their flash warehouse use the OLD flash for laptops.

There's GOLD in them thar old hardwares !!!

that'd be cool but still pretty spendy these days.

sam10685
Apr 21, 2006, 09:37 PM
Well...

I wonder how many people have a computer that wouldn't be worth at least 100 dollars that are buying a brand NEW mac... I don't think that many computers will be sent there way with this program.

agreed... my g4 powerbook is still probably worth a few hundred...

Bosunsfate
Apr 21, 2006, 09:47 PM
While it is good that Apple is offering this service, what really matters is how Apple recycles what it gets.

If all they do is pack these into a container and ship it off to China, then there is nothing green about this program.

Where do most computers go to die (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/04/10/ewaste/index_np.html)?

This is a real problem that no one has really found a solution.

So, while this might help out your local landfill.....

matticus008
Apr 21, 2006, 11:05 PM
Hmmm, I tried to avoid a too lengthly cost analyze of the problem. First of all, it cost to recycle. The value you get from a computer that is totaly recycled is less than it cost. Here too you have a cost for transportation, labor, recycling facilities, and so on.
You're missing the difference. With recycling, there aren't any giant warehouses full of computers waiting to be inspected and rebuilt. There's no added money to spend, and there's no time consuming labor, and a MUCH smaller human workforce. A machine dumps the computers into a giant shredder--the only significant cost is shipping to and from the shredder, which already exists. It's nowhere near the same as building a warehouse and spending 7 hours putting together a working computer from a pile of crap computers. It costs MORE to rebuild than it costs to recycle it. Of course the value is less than the cost--BOTH options are a financial loss. The recycling one is less so.

We agree and I am all for recycling, if we are talking about non-reusable trash. However, I sense that your definition of trash differs from mine.
Most people have no idea that the total environmental cost for recycling in many cases is higher if you recycle instead of burning it in industrial furnaces . There is a reason why universities have a enviromental engineers program. ;)
Your definition of "reusable" is bogus, that's the whole problem here. It's not any cheaper to sort and rehabilitate thousands of discarded computers than it is just to recycle them, and it's less effective in helping people than using newer machines. You should also know that computers contain dangerous substances and can't just be chucked in a giant furnace. The health consequences are important. Further, you generally don't attempt to incinerate metals. The per-unit cost of rehabilitating a broken computer ends up being roughly the same as an extremely cheap brand new computer, or the resale value of a working computer that's say, two years old. You'd be giving out old, slow computers for the same cost to you as newer, faster ones while ignoring better sources for secondhand machines that people might actually be able to use.


Bottomline: Saving the planet isn't as easy as one might think it is.
No one said it was easy. But helping people isn't as easy as handing them an old 486 or a broken G3/233. You've yet to come up with any particular use for old computers in the developing world without printers or the Internet.

pacman7331
Apr 22, 2006, 12:24 AM
Why is it that it is only available for those who buy computers after JUNE? I just bought a computer, Why not recycle ALL computers?

So is it only for the models released after June? Or simply for any computer you buy from apple after June? If so...


Why?


duh... what diffrence does it make. eh?

Planet is still in Jepordy... Recycling policies really should not be a novelty by now... should be a very mundane everyday practice!!!

If apple is going to start recycling computers like Dell has been forced into doing, let it be a recycling program of ALL computers! Please lets try not to be so goddamn superficial about the issue, It's beyond apple or dell or intel or moterola or IBM or microsoft. It's beyond the borders of this country, it's the fate of our planet here, peace and livlihood...

One day we have to stop with the egocentric values... and look at the bigger picture.

pacman7331
Apr 22, 2006, 12:28 AM
That said...

Poor people will still have plenty of access to outdated and disregarded electronics...

After all who do you think is disassembling those recycled computers? Certianly not white male dominators.

Arcady
Apr 22, 2006, 01:38 AM
People throw away Macs?

If you don't want your old Mac, mail it to me. I'll pay shipping. (Send me a PM!)

matticus008
Apr 22, 2006, 02:28 AM
Why is it that it is only available for those who buy computers after JUNE? I just bought a computer, Why not recycle ALL computers?
Because like any program, it takes time to get all the pieces in place. They won't be equipped to send out the boxes and handle the returns until June. You can recycle ANY computer once the program starts. On June 1st when the program starts, any time you buy a Mac, they'll give you a box and prepaid airbills to get rid of your junk computer (if you want to). This one-ups Dell, who pays only for the airbill (not the packaging).

If apple is going to start recycling computers like Dell has been forced into doing, let it be a recycling program of ALL computers!
It is! The program just isn't starting until June.

BlizzardBomb
Apr 22, 2006, 03:36 AM
Oh, please. It's a freaking american company. What did u expect?

Yet, some people complain about when the BBC doesn't show specific programs in other countries? Right...

eXan
Apr 22, 2006, 03:52 AM
Why would anyone recycle their old computer? Why not just sell it? :confused:

Of course, if it's not working, but any other reason? :rolleyes:

matticus008
Apr 22, 2006, 04:26 AM
If you CAN sell it and you WANT to sell it, by all means go for it. This is for people who just want to get rid of an old computer without any effort. It's not a replacement for resale or donation and it's not depriving anyone of access to anything--without this program, these computers simply continue going to the landfill.

Really, people, it's not that difficult a concept to grasp. This is an environmentally sound replacement for the trash can, nothing more. It doesn't change your ability to sell your used hardware and it doesn't reduce donations to good causes.

Ashapalan
Apr 22, 2006, 04:34 AM
Oh, please. It's a freaking american company. What did u expect?

yeh, because apple IS only concerned about america.

Confidemus
Apr 22, 2006, 04:35 AM
A new macs for old policy would be better ;)

You could vote neegative for the lack of an international policy. Us poor forgotten brits:(

In the EU we already have guidelines for taking back old hardware for free! In addition in Germany we have different rules from state to state for disposing old hardware locally. Here where I live we have four times a year the chance to dispose our old stuff (from computer hardware over old washing mashines up to the old wardrobe) just at our front door and the local waste management takes the stuff and - of course - sells the stuff to recycling plants.

So, please don't vote negative in the US not knowing what is going on somewhere else. As far as I know the whole theme is far better developed in the EU than in the US. So with this initiative Apple is just reaching European niveau.

Best, Fernando

ckinyc
Apr 22, 2006, 05:05 AM
Let me introduce this forum to thr concept of Freecycle. I think they started this from the west coast. People sign up for their local Yahoo Freecycle group to post listings on things that they wish to have or things that they want to get rid of. They find each other and arrange for pick up etc. Everything MUST be free for all. Check out the NYC group here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freecyclenewyorkcity/

Leoff
Apr 22, 2006, 05:59 AM
After a day of playing catch-up in here, I am surprised at the ignorance of some people concerning Apple's efforts.

There are a large number of posts from people complaining about Apple not repairing old computers, giving them to the poor, etc. I am seriously wondering what these people are thinking.

The type of person who gives their old computer to this program is not going to mail their original iMac, which works perfectly, to Apple when they upgrade their computer. Apple isn't expecting anyone to do that, either. Those types of computers of course are going to be sold on eBay, given to friends, family, Charity, schools, whatever. People aren't dense.

Apple is looking for OLD computers, the ones that nobody uses anymore, the ones that are so old that even schools and charities won't accept. The computers that are broken and that could be repaired, but it would cost more than the computer's worth to do so.

So what is the purpose of this program? Is it to help introduce the poor to the Mac computing experience? Is it to rake in millions from stupid people who just gave them a free computer? No, it's to RECYCLE, as the program's name says. It is an attempt to make sure that crap isn't being placed in a landfill.

This may be a shock to some of you, but people do throw out computers. Businesses throw out computers. Charities throw out computers. Even if in fine working order, they do eventually outgrow their usefulness and, like anything else that is replaced, it is disposed of somehow.

An example is here at my work. I work for a community college. We recently cleaned out a very old Mac lab, getting rid of a number of Macintosh IIgs's, ci's, and si's. The school first went through the neihboring counties, seeing if any charitable organizations or other schools wanted them. Nobody did. The search then went state-wide. Again, no takers. The computers were too old.

Finally they were offered for sale to the public in lots of 5 and 10 computers by type, and also sold individually, all at auction. Guess what? Big crowd, no takers. After no one would take them, the possibility of disposing of them in a "green" way was researched, but ultimately was too costly. They were tossed. Well over 80 computers just went in the garbage.

This kind of thing happens nation-wide every day. The poor and underpriviliged have access to cheap if not free computers and usually get them. If they don't, they probably didn't want them in the first place, probably because their too outdated, even for them.

And to everyone who is complaining that Apple isn't doing their part to help others, take a look around you. I bet you've got an old thingamabob just sitting there, unused, gathering dust. A TV? A lawn mower? A computer? Why isn't that at some poor person's house right now being used?

zarusoba
Apr 22, 2006, 07:29 AM
Please read this article:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Technology/story?id=1479506

Is America Exporting a Huge Environmental Problem?

Old Computers Often End Up in Toxic Heaps in Developing Countries

"Eighty percent of all the scrap electronics in the United States end up offshore and usually in Third World countries," said Bob Glavin of Chicago, who runs one of the biggest recycling plants in the country.


Peak Oil is upon us, Global Warming could cause billions to starve, and still our Macs gently weep.

ancasta4
Apr 22, 2006, 07:52 AM
The following comes from the articles that were posted about the new recycling policy from Apple "Equipment received by the program in the US is recycled domestically and no hazardous material is shipped overseas"....." Earlier this week, Apple was named a “Forward Green Leader,” one of the top ten environmentally progressive companies recognized by the Sierra Club and its investment advisor, Forward Management..." So with that said, they do not ship overseas and they haven't done that for quite some time...

Also if you think about this, for them to be keeping all of this in the U.S. this creates more job security to people who may need it. It doesn't support those overseas that need jobs but it supports those in the U.S. who do.

Also Apple has not really posted whether or not they would give any discount to those who choose to RECYCLE their equipment towards a new cpu purchase. I have reason to believe that they will do this... They haven't posted all of the details about the program, who said that they would'nt? Just like the iPods this would be an incentive to do the recycling besides having a cleaner earth. ...I can imagine it will not be that exciting for those who have to end up organizing all of this at the stores and shipping it back but this most defiantly will be a good thing.

iDM
Apr 22, 2006, 07:57 AM
This is literally a recycling program. They're offering to provide a free option for the environmental disposal of old computers, for people who would otherwise throw them away. It's not a profit source for customers--this is something that costs Apple money and Apple's refurb store isn't going to swell with the old and broken computers that come back to them.

This isn't a buyback or a trade-up program--no monetary incentives are called for. If the computer still works and isn't cripplingly outdated, by all means give it away to a worthwhile cause or sell it. If it's landfill-bound, then this is the perfect green solution.


PRECISELY.

ro2nie
Apr 22, 2006, 08:48 AM
This recycling program is very good.
At least these guys (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3041199506387232268&q=imac&pl=true) are not gonna have an excuse to smash their old computer equipment

bretm
Apr 22, 2006, 08:50 AM
Ok, on a lighter note, China has been shipping their "stuff" over here for some time now, and most of it ends up in landfills. :)

The article mentions that in Europe (and I think Canada) companies are required by law to recycle their stuff. Well nothing's for free. While not a bad idea, I wish the industry would self regulate and make it's decisions without the government getting involved. More government means more taxes, and the of course the companies are going to pass the extra cost to the consumer as well. Isn't it Canada and Europe etc that are always complaining that the cost of Apple products is far higher over there?

Kudos to Apple for stepping up. But if this program costs them tons of money, don't expect them (and the shareholders) to eat it. If anything the price of products will have to increase somewhere. In fact, I'd really expect to pay Apple to dispose of the computers. I can't believe people think Apple should buy them back.

Please read this article:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Technology/story?id=1479506

Is America Exporting a Huge Environmental Problem?

Old Computers Often End Up in Toxic Heaps in Developing Countries

"Eighty percent of all the scrap electronics in the United States end up offshore and usually in Third World countries," said Bob Glavin of Chicago, who runs one of the biggest recycling plants in the country.


Peak Oil is upon us, Global Warming could cause billions to starve, and still our Macs gently weep.

dbhays
Apr 22, 2006, 09:22 AM
Who would throw away a computer? And yep, this program would be nice if they bought them off of you. Maybe you people should call some schools in your area. I bet they would love to come pick them up from you. There is also the united way, toys for totts, salvation army... all of which will come to your house and pick them up. Think people.

As an IT person at an elementary school, I have to say that giving old computers is not a good idea. Our hallways are filled with donated monitors and CPUs, that cost as alot of money to dispose of. Some people donate to schools, so they don't have to pay disposal fees. Goodwilled administrators often take donations, then hand them over to the IT department. I just recieved 150 HP boxes with no CD drives, no disk drives, and no ethernet ports. These computers are just old boxes with no operating system. Then I recieved 58 Gateway boxes from the government, but the problem is they had to remove the hard drives. This does not help us in the least. We also are an Apple environment (most of our software does not run on WINDOZ)

I am not about saying schools don't want older computers, but an Apple II or an LC III do not really support us these days, either. We need somewhat modern machines with multimedia abilities, and the ability to connect to the internet.

Since Apple introduced OS X, things have gotten even worse. As we replace or purchase new systems, machines running only OS 7.0 - 9.0 become more and more obsolete as we migrate to OS X optimized software. Atleast at our school, we use a lot of server based programs that are now only supporting OS X, so even older imacs (that can't be upgraded) are being relegated to the hallways and backrooms.

As for internet connectivity, we are 100% wireless. We have NO ethernet ports anywhere in the school (major headache). Even our older imacs are not being used much, as the cost for older airport cards is out of our reach (I know there is a USB solution, but the kids steal them).

I am also worried about the intel transition, as we will need universal binaries of our software for many years (<10 years), or we will end up with mounds of unused pre intel Apple boxes.

All I am saying is please check with the local Tech departments, before dumping your good will with the front office, to see if it is really something that will benefit the technology plan of the school.

AidenShaw
Apr 22, 2006, 10:51 AM
Apple's "friends" up the street had green news this week too....

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/14401809.htm

Turning on to solar energy

CAMPUS BOASTS BAY AREA'S LARGEST SYSTEM

Microsoft flipped the switch Friday on what it says is the largest solar-panel system in Silicon Valley.

The software giant's five-building campus in Mountain View is now bedecked with 31,000 square feet of solar panels, generating enough electricity to power about 300 homes. The panels adorn the roofs of the campus' five buildings.

amateurmacfreak
Apr 22, 2006, 11:26 AM
I think it's great that Apple's doing this, but....
it still makes me mad that it's only with the purchase of a new Mac. :mad:

Eh, whatever, generally if a computer isn't ancient you can get a school or the Salvation Army to take it...

macEfan
Apr 22, 2006, 11:44 AM
thats good, that they will pay for the shipping, but I never just reclycle my older computers... I put them to good use by donating or parting them out..

Stella
Apr 22, 2006, 12:11 PM
Oh, please. It's a freaking american company. What did u expect?


And one that should behave like a *global* company..

MrCrowbar
Apr 22, 2006, 12:55 PM
I may not be old enough maybe but I never had problems with old computers. I buy a new one when I feel like I need it and the old one is enslaved doing lower tasks like mail-server, file-server VOIP-server, router, etc...

I've never really had to really dispose of a computer. But if I have to someday, I'm glad Apple will take it back for free.

nsb3000
Apr 22, 2006, 03:20 PM
Who would throw away a computer? And yep, this program would be nice if they bought them off of you. Maybe you people should call some schools in your area. I bet they would love to come pick them up from you. There is also the united way, toys for totts, salvation army... all of which will come to your house and pick them up. Think people.

It depends how old they are. My parents have a Macintosh LC, this thing is like a decade old, I don't think any school or nonprofit group is going to want it. I wonder if Apple would take it?

MrCrowbar
Apr 22, 2006, 04:01 PM
It depends how old they are. My parents have a Macintosh LC, this thing is like a decade old, I don't think any school or nonprofit group is going to want it. I wonder if Apple would take it?

Try eBay. People pay a fortune for such things :eek:

Damek
Apr 22, 2006, 05:09 PM
I may not be old enough maybe but I never had problems with old computers. I buy a new one when I feel like I need it and the old one is enslaved doing lower tasks like mail-server, file-server VOIP-server, router, etc...

I've never really had to really dispose of a computer. But if I have to someday, I'm glad Apple will take it back for free.

Sounds nice in theory, but hard in practice if you have limited space - like, say, if you live in an apartment in a city. And if administration of mounting numbers of systems becomes more of a burden than a joy...

MrCrowbar
Apr 22, 2006, 05:24 PM
Sounds nice in theory, but hard in practice if you have limited space - like, say, if you live in an apartment in a city. And if administration of mounting numbers of systems becomes more of a burden than a joy...

True... But hey, I need 2 computers on my desk anyway. :p

If you want to get rid of your old computers, update faster. :D Like when the new revision comes out :p

pacman7331
Apr 22, 2006, 06:51 PM
Because like any program, it takes time to get all the pieces in place. They won't be equipped to send out the boxes and handle the returns until June. You can recycle ANY computer once the program starts. On June 1st when the program starts, any time you buy a Mac, they'll give you a box and prepaid airbills to get rid of your junk computer (if you want to). This one-ups Dell, who pays only for the airbill (not the packaging).


It is! The program just isn't starting until June.

OOOOHhhh wow! How Exciting!!! This is a utopian ideal indeed! I'm simply amazed. I don't entirely believe it... yet... but if it is true... I will be very impressed with apple's sensitivity to environemtal issues, and openness to the concept of change and social reform.

Leoff
Apr 22, 2006, 07:49 PM
OOOOHhhh wow! How Exciting!!! This is a utopian ideal indeed! I'm simply amazed. I don't entirely believe it... yet... but if it is true... I will be very impressed with apple's sensitivity to environemtal issues, and openness to the concept of change and social reform.

Sarcasm noted and promptly ignored.

AidenShaw
Apr 22, 2006, 07:53 PM
I buy a new one when I feel like I need it and the old one is enslaved doing lower tasks like mail-server, file-server VOIP-server, router, etc...

Sounds nice in theory, but hard in practice if you have limited space - like, say, if you live in an apartment in a city.
That's why I buy a more powerful system, and have the file server, DNS/DHCP server, and other stuff running as virtual machines in the main system.

There's no concern with conflicts between the servers (and some are Linux, some are Windows).

When I get a new computer, I shutdown all the servers, copy the virtual disks to the new computer, and restart. No reconfiguring, no hassle.


And if administration of mounting numbers of systems becomes more of a burden than a joy...
So true, and something that virtual machines tends to complicate (since making *more* servers is so easy and cheap).

Mechcozmo
Apr 22, 2006, 11:25 PM
Yes, I want the $2,000 I shelled out for my Performa 550!!!! :-)

And I want the $10,000 for this Mac IIfx someone gave me.
:)

sushi
Apr 22, 2006, 11:52 PM
Who would throw away a computer? And yep, this program would be nice if they bought them off of you. Maybe you people should call some schools in your area. I bet they would love to come pick them up from you. There is also the united way, toys for totts, salvation army... all of which will come to your house and pick them up. Think people.
Some computers are too old to donate. Organizations do not want them as they are too hard to support.

For example, some organizations may not want computers that can only run Mac OS 9 or Windows 98SE.

Remember, someone has to keep them up and running. For many organizations, this can become a burden eventhough it may seem like a good thing for them to accept all computers.

gerardrj
Apr 23, 2006, 12:25 AM
Stupid environmentalists.

What next? Will Sony be forced to start taking back my old DVD player? Will Good Humor be forced to take back my used popsicle sticks?

Recycling computers is a financial and energy waste. It costs money and fuel to transport the stuff to a handling depot and a LOT of work hours to dismantle, identify and separate the usable materials.

As for the toxic waste in the dumps argument? The dumps are lined and essentially leak proof.

Metal in the form of cans and solid objects (aluminum or steel in particular) are cost effective to recycle, but computers are best repurposed/reused or simply tossed.

matticus008
Apr 23, 2006, 05:20 AM
Stupid environmentalists.

What next? Will Sony be forced to start taking back my old DVD player? Will Good Humor be forced to take back my used popsicle sticks?
In much of the world, yes, you CAN recycle your DVD player (in fact, if you tossed it in the box with your computer, you could probably get rid of it in one fell swoop). Popsicle sticks are not particularly hazardous to the environment, being made of plant fiber.

Recycling computers is a financial and energy waste. It costs money and fuel to transport the stuff to a handling depot and a LOT of work hours to dismantle, identify and separate the usable materials.
Recycling isn't generally done by hand. In fact, the only place it is common to see it done by hand is in those illegal Asian junkyards. Most waste is shredded into manageable pieces and then processed (with precipitate-forming chemicals, smelting at progressive temperatures to separate metals, or a variety of other processes). Yes, it costs money, but the bigger the scale, the cheaper the per-unit cost to recycle.

The reused materials are also readily available to go into new products, which reduces demand for environmentally-damaging strip mining and prolongs the viability of the technology industry. After all, many of the components in electronics are made from relatively rare materials, and growing technology demands will result in scarce resources if none of it is recycled. Beyond that, landfill capacity is a serious problem in many areas, so anything that can be saved from landfills should be.

(L)
Apr 23, 2006, 06:16 AM
Umm, ok. Yeah, I guess eventually my PB will break beyond repair. Might I not use it as deco though? Or keep it for the heck of it? Lol, I'll have to see when I get to that point. After all, a laptop doesn't make a good Maquarium.

:o

(L)
Apr 23, 2006, 06:17 AM
Stupid environmentalists.

What next? Will Sony be forced to start taking back my old DVD player? Will Good Humor be forced to take back my used popsicle sticks?

Recycling computers is a financial and energy waste. It costs money and fuel to transport the stuff to a handling depot and a LOT of work hours to dismantle, identify and separate the usable materials.

As for the toxic waste in the dumps argument? The dumps are lined and essentially leak proof.

Metal in the form of cans and solid objects (aluminum or steel in particular) are cost effective to recycle, but computers are best repurposed/reused or simply tossed.

Can't wait till they develop nuclear fusion. That'd be fun.

hscottm
Apr 23, 2006, 07:23 AM
just some thoughts - although with so many postings here I assume it will get lost in the clutter..

I have been studying computer waste issues for 15 years. I am a chairperson of the IEEE conference on Electronics and the Environment, etc. This is an area I am an expert in - glad to give credentials if interested. Actually the conference is in SF in a few weeks if anyone is interested http://www.iseesummit.org/.

Frankly, its about time Apple did something.

As pointed out above, Dell started it a few years ago. IBM did it at least 5 years ago. Many retailers (Staples, Best Buy, etc.) also have programs like this. So really the big question should be "what took them so long?". Dont get me wrong - I am a huge apple supporter, and every computer I have bought in the last 20 years has been an Apple. I think more than anything Apple has been concerned about making their own program versus being perceived as caving to external threats and action (e.g. there was a group complaining about ipod waste last year due to their upgrade/repair difficulties).

Another relevant point - yes its true that in Europe the companies are required to set up a program like this (and it doesnt just apply to computers!). However many/most companies are subject to this, and few of them have announced anything in the US.

Finally, on the subject of utility of old computers. Noone said you have to trade in your newest computer. You should be looking to recycle the really old computers (e.g. I recycled a Mac IIx 6 months ago). Noone knows how many "obsolete" PCs are out there in closets, attics, and corporate storerooms - but its clearly orders of magnitude more than are sold per year, or recycled per year. This is a big problem, and I wish companies like Apple did more to promote this message. Think about it - these arent antiques - every month you let an old one sit around is a month you cant get a tax deduction, make someone else happy, or put it into productive use. You're condemning it to be recycled.

So act early, and act often.

Stella
Apr 23, 2006, 11:04 AM
I am very sorry you feel this way. Earth does not have an infinite amount of resources. If we can re-use existing materials again - how is that bad?

Recycling programmes also creates jobs, so there is an economical benefit too.

Do you like rubbish being thrown in large land sites, or, toxic fumes being pumped into the atmosphere. Do you think either has any benefit on life? ( The answer is no ). Computers get thrown into the regular garbage and end up in regular landfills, where there are no protections. So, all those toxins can end up in your water supply, and in the food chain etc.

If you don't already, I suggest you start recycling some of your waste... because if everyone did, this planet would be a lot better for it.

Stupid environmentalists.

What next? Will Sony be forced to start taking back my old DVD player? Will Good Humor be forced to take back my used popsicle sticks?

Recycling computers is a financial and energy waste. It costs money and fuel to transport the stuff to a handling depot and a LOT of work hours to dismantle, identify and separate the usable materials.

As for the toxic waste in the dumps argument? The dumps are lined and essentially leak proof.

Metal in the form of cans and solid objects (aluminum or steel in particular) are cost effective to recycle, but computers are best repurposed/reused or simply tossed.

floatingspirit
Apr 23, 2006, 12:34 PM
Who would throw away a computer? :(

My mother! You'd be suprised how many people just can't be bothered! Fortunately I was able to Freecycle it. http://www.freecycle.org/

drastik
Apr 23, 2006, 12:55 PM
repurpose is the best use. I've got a super slow pismo powerbook that just sits on my network as a code repository in my CVS set up. It works fine for that, and it doesn't create any waste.

j-a-x
Apr 23, 2006, 02:30 PM
Maybe this will stop the misinformed anti-apple environmental protesters. I am an environmentalist myself, but I think it's stupid to protest against Apple when they are actually better than the average company in this respect.

Psychic Shopper
Apr 23, 2006, 06:33 PM
[QUOTE=MacTruck]I grew up with a used black and white TV. No vcr, no cable. We were poor.
I grew up with a black and white TV, and no cable, but I was not poor. I grew up in the 60's where that was the norm.. The true measure of wealth should be the amount of consumer electronics you own , because as we can see by this article, they turn into junk, worthless junk.

generik
Apr 23, 2006, 06:58 PM
If you don't already, I suggest you start recycling some of your waste... because if everyone did, this planet would be a lot better for it.

Sadly it costs money to recycle things, and Apple, like all Corporations, are only interested in one thing. The quarterly figures. To hell with the planet, it can blow up in the next 50 years for all Apple cares, but the next quarter's margins are of paramount importance!

artifex
Apr 23, 2006, 09:01 PM
Sadly it costs money to recycle things, and Apple, like all Corporations, are only interested in one thing. The quarterly figures. To hell with the planet, it can blow up in the next 50 years for all Apple cares, but the next quarter's margins are of paramount importance!

So, since you're so environmentally-minded, you don't mind paying reclamation/recycle/salvage fees for disposing of your old equipment now, do you?

Oh, wait, it's only behavior to be expected, if it's someone else's expense... :)

Have you asked Toyota to take back old cars? Toshiba, old TVs? Trojan, old prophylactics? :)

matticus008
Apr 23, 2006, 11:22 PM
So, since you're so environmentally-minded, you don't mind paying reclamation/recycle/salvage fees for disposing of your old equipment now, do you?

Oh, wait, it's only behavior to be expected, if it's someone else's expense... :)

Have you asked Toyota to take back old cars? Toshiba, old TVs? Trojan, old prophylactics? :)

Whether the companies pay and it cuts into shareholder profits, or governments pay and it takes tax money, or individuals pay a small recycling fee directly, it's cheaper to do it now than to wait until there's no other option. Old cars last a lot longer than computers, and when they get to the end of the line, they're scrapped, too. Toshiba already pays for recycling of old TVs, but they don't take them back directly because they don't sell directly to consumers.

MyLeftNut
Apr 24, 2006, 12:06 AM
Ultimately, the only way to avoid environmental catastrophy is to take the holistic mantle as espoused by William McDonough & Michael Braungart in Cradle to Cradle: If it cannot be produced to be completely biodegradeable then the product must never leave the recycling phase of its use.

The current throw away mentality and recycling policies will get us nowhere. Its irrelevant how many plastic bags you save or recycle as eventually those plastic bags recycled into park benches become worn or not needed and, guess what... they go to landfill. Unless those bags can fully degrade safely or they can continually - ad infinitum - be reused, there is no point to this argument.

Check out:
http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm

While I look at the efforts of some companies with skepticism I can appreciate what Apple and others are trying to do to minimise harm at least in respect to this ill-informed comment by gerardrj:


Stupid environmentalists.

What next? Will Sony be forced to start taking back my old DVD player? Will Good Humor be forced to take back my used popsicle sticks?

Recycling computers is a financial and energy waste. It costs money and fuel to transport the stuff to a handling depot and a LOT of work hours to dismantle, identify and separate the usable materials.

As for the toxic waste in the dumps argument? The dumps are lined and essentially leak proof.

Metal in the form of cans and solid objects (aluminum or steel in particular) are cost effective to recycle, but computers are best repurposed/reused or simply tossed.

Yes. The onus should be on manufacturers to find better ways to create things. Why does the consumer have to bear the burden for environmental degradation?

Also even though the dumps are lined, they are far from leak proof. The chemicals and leachate that comes from the various components and other garbage easily burn and puncture the lining. Read Elizabeth Royte's "Garbage Land." for an excellent revealing look into what really happens in the so called recycling/waste industry. At the least, I applaud Apple for helping to reduce the impact of landfill, mind you, nearly every industry needs to be involved in these sorts of programs otherwise it really is a token gesture. Ultimately, it is still only delaying the inevitable, but if it buys us more time then that is a good thing to have.

We really need all parties to think more deeply about what they are doing, how things are made and what happens in the full lifecycle of a product. Easy? No. Necessary? Absolutely. We can have our lifestyle products and be good to the planet as well - we need thinking outside of the box and a little common sense, which is unfortunately, not so common.

None of this is easy, but taking ideological sides like many people do based on emotional judgement is only going to confuse matters when we really can't afford it.

PS. On this issue, just ignore my sig.:p

Stella
Apr 24, 2006, 02:10 AM
Sadly it costs money to recycle things, and Apple, like all Corporations, are only interested in one thing. The quarterly figures. To hell with the planet, it can blow up in the next 50 years for all Apple cares, but the next quarter's margins are of paramount importance!

I talking about *you* ( the individual ) - you can do a lot to recycle - paper, food containers, plastics etc. ( referring to your "Stupid environmentalists" quote ).

So what if it costs the tax payer money ( as some schemes are run by local government )? I'd rather pay a small contribution to help... than to suffer the consequences.

So what if it costs the company money to recycle its products - its also publicity.. just by having recycling schemes can actually benefit the company by more customers ( the customer sees the company in a good light - and would rather by from this one than others ).

You aren't thinking of the whole picture.

5300cs
Apr 24, 2006, 07:59 AM
... Frankly, its about time Apple did something. ...

Amen to that - Apple's had a horrible track record so far.

Read this: http://www.ban.org/ban_news/2006/060410_where_computers_go.html

and this: http://www.ban.org/Library/Editorials/060306_real_cost.html

and this article, in which Jobs responded to complaints by calling them bulls*** : http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1040_22-5680152.html
- and -
http://www.computertakeback.com/bad_apple/

Maxx Power
Apr 24, 2006, 10:38 AM
Whether the companies pay and it cuts into shareholder profits, or governments pay and it takes tax money, or individuals pay a small recycling fee directly, it's cheaper to do it now than to wait until there's no other option.

It's too late...

there is a lot more waste in terms of overall weight than the entire human population today, that's what happens when our leaders, elected or not, are not eagle sighted individuals.

schatten
Apr 24, 2006, 02:41 PM
Gee, I wonder if they would take back my MacPlus that I turned into an aquarium. I'd empty the water out first, of course...

portent
Apr 24, 2006, 03:28 PM
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2006/apr/21takeback.html

Equipment received by the program in the US is recycled domestically and no hazardous material is shipped overseas.