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pgwalsh
Feb 12, 2003, 01:03 PM
Safari Update 2-12-2003 is available

Version v6C 2.4MB

Improve the compatibility with popular web sites based on Safari user feedback, further improves the performance of loading web pages and Flash content, adds support for SML, increases standards conformance and delivers improved application stability. The update also enables access to web sites that offer self-signed security certificates..

backspinner
Feb 12, 2003, 02:27 PM
it solves the 72dpi / 96dpi related problem!!!

gandalf55
Feb 12, 2003, 02:44 PM
flash is much faster now... a 15fps improvement. surfing seems much faster. way to go apple!!!!

Backtothemac
Feb 12, 2003, 02:45 PM
I see no difference on my iBook here at work. None at all.

davy the bunny
Feb 12, 2003, 02:48 PM
Can't Wait till I get home to try it out. Sparkleytone and Gus beat this one though, heh.

bennyek
Feb 12, 2003, 02:48 PM
I'm suprised they have'nt added support for online banking with wells fargo bank. It's the biggest bank in california. it is the only reason I still use IE
Geezzz

pEZ
Feb 12, 2003, 02:55 PM
Sorry guys, Chimera still loads my favorite sites faster. Still not too happy with it.

And the Wells Fargo Bank thing is pretty bizarre, if you ask me.

3777
Feb 12, 2003, 03:01 PM
They fixed the hotmail java issue, and it's the fastest browser I have. I am very happy with it:o Plus my e-trade works great in Safari:D

nero007
Feb 12, 2003, 03:06 PM
Browser Warning

For online access to secure sessions within wellsfargo.com, you must use an approved operating system and browser.

Wells Fargo does not support the Internet device, operating system, or browser version you are using. To continue accessing your accounts online or other secured areas within wellsfargo.com, please use a supported operating system and browser.

The minimum operating systems that meet our current technical requirements include:

? A PC with Windows 98 or higher operating system and an approved browser,

OR

? A Macintosh computer with 7.5.3 or higher operating system and an approved browser

For more information, please review our list of supported operating systems and browsers. Once you have upgraded your operating system or browser, return to wellsfargo.com to access your account(s).

Free Browser Upgrades Available.
To update your browser now, click one of the links below: Netscape Navigator / Microsoft Internet Explorer

We apologize for the inconvenience this may cause you. If you have any questions, please call us anytime at 1-800-956-4442. We value our relationship with you and look forward to continue serving your online needs in a highly secure environment.

It appears that the Wells Fargo problem has to do with Wells Fargo's code and not Safari.

Kid Red
Feb 12, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by bennyek
I'm suprised they have'nt added support for online banking with wells fargo bank. It's the biggest bank in california. it is the only reason I still use IE
Geezzz

Hve you tried changing your user string to announce the browser as IE?

britboy
Feb 12, 2003, 03:17 PM
Definite improvement, although it still has some issues. Hotmail works better than with .51, but it's still a little quirky.

No tabbed browsing yet. Hopefully it won't take too long before that option is oncorporated.

spacepower
Feb 12, 2003, 03:25 PM
Has anyone figured out how to turn off web address autocomplete. This is one of the most annoying features. At least everyone else except apple offeres this option in there browsers. I would have thought that it would be easier to write safari without autocomplete rather than include it. Apple please give me the option to turns this off.

pgwalsh
Feb 12, 2003, 03:25 PM
I've noticed some improvements with displaying certain web pages the showed up fine in IE and NN. Nice!

robMaurizi
Feb 12, 2003, 03:32 PM
<edit> d'oh.. quoted the wrong post.. Meant to quote the one about the auto-complete URL feature.. really annoying... </edit>



I wholeheartedly agree.. This is easily the worst feature of Safari...

On another note, it seems to handle Java a little bit better, but I still can't properly play Monopoly at www.playsite.com.

I also still have trouble with sites with expired security certificates.

-Rob

iPegboy
Feb 12, 2003, 03:38 PM
Hotmail works, that's good. But I am having a new problem, with the dock. I drag a copy of the new safari over to the dock to add it and it appears. Then when I click on the icon there, a new icon appears at the end of the dock, doubling the space and making everything else smaller.

Anyone else with this problem? Am I just doing something stupid-like?

jayscheuerle
Feb 12, 2003, 03:43 PM
Let me know when tabs show up...

CHIMERA ROCKS!!!

FelixDerKater
Feb 12, 2003, 03:53 PM
Flash is much faster.

My https:// webmail site still says it can't connect. When trying to log in to my bank's online section, Safari now locks up instead of just stopping at "Accessing Account info".

JGowan
Feb 12, 2003, 04:00 PM
I don't know if it's fixed yet (I haven't been home to download the update)... but did anyone notice that with Apple's OWN site, if you had a large monitor and opened the browser window, the buttons at the top would not be centered with the text and graphics in the main part of the window, but would get more and more off the further the window was opened up?

Wow... you'd think their own site would be the one that looked the absolute best with their own browser.

I love Apple, but this surprised me.

iJim

woodsey
Feb 12, 2003, 04:30 PM
Just reporting that apple.com now appears centered within the browser window.

trilogic
Feb 12, 2003, 04:33 PM
I'm doing some test about flash playback speed. This is what I get on my TiBook667

old safari V50: 10 fps
new safari V60: 25 fps
chimera : 22.88 fps
ie 5.22: 22.70 to 23.1 (not absolutly steady)
ns 7.0: 23.8 fps

okay the new safari is the fastest browser when it comes to flash playback.

interessting: if you move a browserwindow with a playing flashmovie, the movie doesn't stop in chimera and safari.

atomwork
Feb 12, 2003, 04:35 PM
great. i was waiting for this. finally i can use it for heavy flash content sites. Now we can call it the fastes browser.

go apple!

trilogic
Feb 12, 2003, 04:41 PM
I'll do the same tests on the pc at work tomorrow. I'm not exactly shure but I thought on the pc I could reach 30fps.

Timothy
Feb 12, 2003, 04:46 PM
OK...I'm now switching to Safari. I had several important sites that previously would not load in Safari. This update has solved that, so I am making the switch and dumping IE.

I trust that Safari will only improve from here. The absolute key, whatever else is added/removed from a browser, is a universal ability to load and view pages. Absent this, none of the other features matter.

Good update.

britboy
Feb 12, 2003, 04:49 PM
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?

eric_n_dfw
Feb 12, 2003, 04:49 PM
I like the URL auto-complete. :D

ibookin'
Feb 12, 2003, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?

I am. Unfortunately. :(

sparkleytone
Feb 12, 2003, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?

yeah its been that way since v56. i have reported it once already. hopefully itll be fixed soon.

Maclicious
Feb 12, 2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by trilogic
I'm doing some test about flash playback speed. This is what I get on my TiBook667



All I know is that I can go to homestarrunner.com now and watch the flash interaction without aging a year. Yay!

(if you like odd humor, go to http://www.homestarrunner.com/main7.html)

Edit: screwed up the original url somehow.

php
Feb 12, 2003, 04:57 PM
Still some problems viewing this site:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2045

3777
Feb 12, 2003, 04:57 PM
Using it now actually. I still like Safari a lot but this is nice as well... two great browsers now.

Skandranon
Feb 12, 2003, 05:04 PM
I accidentally copied over my older version of Safari and wanted to know if anyone still had the original app or installer archived before they've upgraded to the newest beta.

If you do, PLEASE PM or email me...

skandranon at mac.com

Thanks!

slaboda
Feb 12, 2003, 05:42 PM
I use North Shore Community Bank. It still doesn't work, but Safari doesn't crash as badly as it used to. It works fine in Chimera.

Choppaface
Feb 12, 2003, 05:46 PM
did they get rid of the 'deletes your user folder on print' bug yet? he he :D

e-coli
Feb 12, 2003, 05:54 PM
MUCH faster.

w00t!!

springscansing
Feb 12, 2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?

Yes.. I have. What the heck is that about?

sageenos
Feb 12, 2003, 06:32 PM
Am I the only one who thinks there's a major problem with Autocomplete in the address bar? I visited www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ once with Safari, and from then on whenever I type www.apple.com and press enter..autocomplete fills the url in to be www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/. This is a really bad design issue...I mean...at the very least the autocomplete could fill in up to the top level of the domain and then fill in the sub directories if the user starts adding to the path. I like Safari overall, but the autocomplete feature is so annoying for regular use I'm just gonna stick with Chimera until someone fixes it. Okay, I'm done ranting...

...well...if you press delete after it fills in the url it goes ahead and deletes the autocompleted stuff...I suppose that's okay....I'm gonna stick with Safari now :D

robMaurizi
Feb 12, 2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by sageenos
Am I the only one who thinks there's a major problem with Autocomplete in the address bar? I visited www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/ once with Safari, and from then on whenever I type www.apple.com and press enter..autocomplete fills the url in to be www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/. This is a really bad design issue...I mean...at the very least the autocomplete could fill in up to the top level of the domain and then fill in the sub directories if the user starts adding to the path. I like Safari overall, but the autocomplete feature is so annoying for regular use I'm just gonna stick with Chimera until someone fixes it. Okay, I'm done ranting...

yes.. I posted about this earlier, but you make a good point about what it should do.. I don't mind if it auto-completes the URL, but if I delete the auto-completed portion of the URL, then it should stay that way....

Perhaps a bug report is in order :-)

-Rob

beatle888
Feb 12, 2003, 06:39 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?



it only happens to me when i have the font
size cranked up under view>make text bigger.

and it's been like that with ANY browser i've
used so i didn't even think to report it as a
bug to apple.

sageenos
Feb 12, 2003, 06:39 PM
I've already sent two bug reports (one a while back and one today)...I'm just picky I guess..oh well.

Styvas
Feb 12, 2003, 06:54 PM
My complaint with Safari is that it still crashes whenever I try to load a web banking page. Oddly enough, it works fine on my wife's iBook and on my parents' iMac. Obviously this is some kind of a conflict with something on my machine, but darned if I can figure out what it is!

Otherwise, I am of the opinion that Safari is an excellent browser. As soon as I can do web banking, I'll switch to it permanently.

gandalf55
Feb 12, 2003, 06:57 PM
xml send and load is still busted in flash. and flash communication server stuff seems quite flaky as well. but the speed is very nice. remember this is still a beta.

mnkeybsness
Feb 12, 2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?

yah...what's the deal?

weev
Feb 12, 2003, 07:13 PM
Still can't move chess pieces in Yahoo! Games..... but generally seems a little faster.

beatle888
Feb 12, 2003, 07:22 PM
supo-fasto leaven speed trails all over the web.

i only visited on flash site.....it always seems
slow but atleast its just as good as any other
mac browser when it comes to flash. atleast
now that apple has some control on optimizing
flash playback on their own platform we might
be seeing the light breaking through that dark
cloud. i guess the pc guys have always had
better flash playback. i bet apple will close that
gap with safari.

jettredmont
Feb 12, 2003, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by iPegboy
Hotmail works, that's good. But I am having a new problem, with the dock. I drag a copy of the new safari over to the dock to add it and it appears. Then when I click on the icon there, a new icon appears at the end of the dock, doubling the space and making everything else smaller.

Anyone else with this problem? Am I just doing something stupid-like?

Yeah, that happened to me the first time i updated Safari. It was 100% reproducable: take the old version (shortcut in the dock), rename it. Rename the new version to the same name as the old version. Put the new version in the dock. Click on the icon in the dock ... another icon pops up at the end of the Dock and the icon you clicked remains not-open.

Check the version on the app that the Dock is actually opening up ... I bet it's the old version, not the new one. Has to do with the Dock mixing file system handles (which stay constant as a file is moved around) and file path names (which ... well, don't). It's a bug in Jaguar.

Three ways to fix this: (1) trash (and empty) the old version (Dock can't open it if you've completely trashed it!); (2) restart Finder (Dock doesn't remember file system handles across a restart); (3) avoid the problem by changing the Safari app name to "Safari - 0.60" or somesuch, trash the old Dock icon, and re-drag your renamed app to the Dock.

zer0army
Feb 12, 2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by iPegboy
Hotmail works, that's good. But I am having a new problem, with the dock. I drag a copy of the new safari over to the dock to add it and it appears. Then when I click on the icon there, a new icon appears at the end of the dock, doubling the space and making everything else smaller.

Anyone else with this problem? Am I just doing something stupid-like?

I had that problem with v58 i think it was so i stoped using it and went back to v51......I have yet to try out the latest version though....Ill let you know when I do

yosoyjay
Feb 12, 2003, 07:30 PM
It still doesn't display the BBC world news site correctly, so I am sad.

I hope the next version fixes this problem and adds tabbed browsing.

Goblin2099
Feb 12, 2003, 07:32 PM
I remember hearing about Safari not being able to handle large bandwidth back in the original bouts of Chimera VS Safari speed debates, but I just now ran a quick test with the new Safari and a fairly recent Chimera build, and Chimera wins in pure bandwidth by about 150Kbps. This doesn't take rendering into account, of course, but Safari's still doing something that's preventing it from efficiently downloading files.

beatle888
Feb 12, 2003, 07:47 PM
you know what

i think your right

and still....safari seems faster to me when
viewing pages. i guess chimera's rendering
engine is its bottleneck. can you imaging
safaries rendering engine with chimeras
fast bandwidth capabilities.

DakotaGuy
Feb 12, 2003, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?

Yeah I just noticed they don't line up. I reopened the message boards in IE and everything looks fine and lines up right. I am not sure what Safari is doing to it...

You know I hate to say this...yes Explorer is slower, but why does it just work on everything all the time...whereas every other browser I have used, is hit or miss, or can do this and can't do that?

Maybe with time Safari will get there, I sure hope they do. They need to shoot for speed and also they should use IE as a benchmark for compatibility with all websites.

Hmm
Feb 12, 2003, 08:03 PM
At least it now opens the first new window correctly. It used to open it off to the side and I'd always have to move it back manually.

nickgold
Feb 12, 2003, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Hmm
At least it now opens the first new window correctly. It used to open it off to the side and I'd always have to move it back manually.

AMEN!

GeeYouEye
Feb 12, 2003, 08:11 PM
Still haven't fixed the cookie problems. Also appears to be a couple of layout issues.

DakotaGuy
Feb 12, 2003, 08:18 PM
Maybe this has been brought up by someone else and maybe I just have a setting wrong on Safari, but when I control-click and "save an image as" on my desktop or in a folder, why doesn't Safari show the picture in the icon like IE does? All I get with jpeg's, etc. is the "Preview" icon, not the actual icon sized image. I would like to see this fixed, unless it is just a setting I have wrong.

achmafooma
Feb 12, 2003, 08:51 PM
I was very happy that my Wachovia account (a former First Union account) was accessible online with Safari.

Sadly the newest release breaks it :-( it hangs forever when I try to log in and requires a force-quit.

VERY disappointing. But I have to say that while there are these few issues - my bank account and the un-lined-up lines in MacRumors - it still works on 99% of the sites I've been to.

I'm still impressed, and I'm sure most of this stuff will be worked out before 1.0 rolls around. This is just a beta after all, and a much better beta than many betas I've used before.

I got used to online banking in Safari :-(

nodmonkey
Feb 12, 2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Maybe this has been brought up by someone else and maybe I just have a setting wrong on Safari, but when I control-click and "save an image as" on my desktop or in a folder, why doesn't Safari show the picture in the icon like IE does? All I get with jpeg's, etc. is the "Preview" icon, not the actual icon sized image. I would like to see this fixed, unless it is just a setting I have wrong.

i am happy to be rid of that feature! IE automatically creates custom icons to downloaded pictures (in the 'data fork' i believe) which adds a lot to the image file size unnecessarily. if you want to see image previews as the icons, then make sure the folders (or desktop) you are downloading the image file to has its view options (in finder, apple-j or 'view'>'show view options') set so the "Show Icon Preview" box is ticked. only, this won't add icons to files when in 'list' view.

hope that helps.

nodmonkey.

tychay
Feb 12, 2003, 08:58 PM
That is an icon preview that IE tacks on. I happen to like them but the do add quite a bit to the file size (possibly an issue if you plan on uploading them to your web hosting provider?).

In any case there are many programs that will generate them from almost any graphic. Try iView MultiMedia, for instance. I'm sure there are a bunch of drag-and-drop freebies that do the same thing.

What I recommend though is that you have keep a folder with "Show icon preview" turned on (See View > Show View Options in Finder). This will render the thumbnail only when something is dropped in there and don't take up any extra space. That's good because you can also use the same window to choose the size of your preview.

Since most people keep their graphical assets in one place, it makes a pretty good poor-man's organizer.

The other trick is to use iPhoto for that.

As for Wells Fargo. Since they're my bank I tried it out. What you need to do is turn on the debugging menu (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20030110063041629) and the change your browser identity to something like IE for Windows. Don't blame Safari, blame the people who programmed Wells Fargo's website.

The main reason why websites look good on IE is because that is what developers are targetting when they design. IE6 for Windows is so horrible at standards compliance (xHTML DOM, CSS1/2 whathaveyou) that this is now the bottleneck for developers to use the latest standards (it used to be Netscape 4.x). And why should: with 90% of the browser market, the browser wars are dead and no longer a "disruptive technology" in the view of the powers that be at Redmond. Off it goes into obscurity like other hot products of the time like PowerPoint, Stacker, and all the rest.

IE5 for the Mac does render pretty well, however, but it should not be the "benchmark" for Safari: First, Safari reports itself as Mozilla (like-Gecko) so rendering and behaving like IE would run against all those cruddy javascript and server side browser detection scripts out there (The Wells Fargo example above is a case in point). Second, IE5 Mac has its known problems and quirks and is far from perfect. Why duplicate them? Third, Mac users already have IE5 for the Mac. Who needs another IE?

Looking to the future, we shouldn't encourage web developers to "render well in IE" because there will be a lot of things other than IE for Windows using the web: speaking browsers for the blind, your cell phone (WAP, iMode), Your PDA (AvantGo, etc), your telephone via VoiceXML (TellMe and BeVocal), scrapers (Sherlock and Watson), web services (SOAP, XMLRPC, WDDX), and how about just being able to plain print out that web page article without having to download some funkily formatted "printable" web page?

clonenode
Feb 12, 2003, 09:42 PM
Apple's website no longer has the little "Welcome Safari User" icon.

Noiseboy
Feb 12, 2003, 09:55 PM
I noticed that the Apple site says Safari updates are available via Software Update. I have run SU twice today but didn't get this new build. Did most of you pick it up from SU or did you download directly from the Apple site? I'd hate to think my SU wasn't working.
Otherwise, this version seems quicker to me and I'm sure the less than straight line phenomenon will be sorted quickly.

Go Apple:)

edesignuk
Feb 12, 2003, 10:03 PM
Well, it seems ok....but it's still missing TABS! IMO this is a must have, if they do not include them in the final release then I for one (as well as many others I would think) will be sticking with Chimera, sorry Apple.

kylos
Feb 12, 2003, 11:31 PM
I'm glad it now will accept self-signed certificates. (My dumb university's it dept. still hasn't gotten a valid certificate for their secure site)

And something is definitely messed up with the way it's displaying macrumors.

I'm hoping when 1.0 comes out, it will have a more fully developed GUI and much better prefs (4 tabs? Give me a break)

kylos
Feb 12, 2003, 11:34 PM
I got it off SU (I hate download forms, otherwise I'd get it from the website, 'cuz I like to keep a copy of my .dmg's)

Catfish_Man
Feb 12, 2003, 11:55 PM
Check out the CSSEdge site (linked to from Hyatt's weblog). Safari v60 pretty much aces it, which puts it on a par with Gecko.

pgwalsh
Feb 13, 2003, 01:08 AM
I certainly get the forums flaw.

Is anyone using the OS X theme for the forums? I like it, but I there's no link back to the home/index page.

mjtomlin
Feb 13, 2003, 01:15 AM
I was having the same problem with Wells Fargo Online Banking; not being able to log in. However, if you activate the Debug menu you can tell Safari to appear to be a different browser.

Open the Terminal app and on the command line enter the following command,

defaults write com.apple.Safari IncludeDebugMenu -boolean yes

then hit return. Close the Terminal app and reload Safari. There should now be a Debug menu on the menu bar. Pull it down to the 'User Agent' submenu and select one of the other browsers. Then try accessing the website again.

jayscheuerle
Feb 13, 2003, 08:09 AM
Safari's a speedy work in progress, but it isn't close enough to a full feature set to get me to use it. Chimera's close enough in speed and has tabs, etc...

The real kicker is still needing to have I.E. around for tough sites. It really is the compatibility standard against which all other browsers must be judged. I only dig it out in emergencies though...

I feel a little (very little) bad about not using Safari on a regular basis and giving feedback, but its lack of tabs makes it worthless for me and there are plenty of other more obsessed and Apple loyal users out there dishing out feedback with a tenacity that I could never muster.

Usability in the fall I'm hoping...

Wyvernspirit
Feb 13, 2003, 09:29 AM
I am using Mozilla at work and I get the same effect. exactly. I don't usually fidlle with font sizes, and I haven't on this browser, but I do have the system font set to a higher size. So maybe that is the cause.:confused:

Gringo
Feb 13, 2003, 09:55 AM
I have tested it and not a thing could make me like it more then Chimera or even IE for that matter... Need tab browsing and have really big issues trying to print... can't print the ful doc, only prints the pag you can see.

Still to many issues to be used as the main browser... Chimera rules until now....

G.-

RndmAxess
Feb 13, 2003, 10:54 AM
deleted

RndmAxess
Feb 13, 2003, 11:22 AM
deleted

neonart
Feb 13, 2003, 09:21 PM
Originally posted by britboy
Is anyone else finding that the lines on macrumors no longer seem to line up?
Your right! waz up with that!
I did notice the Flash improvements!
This site showed a huge difference:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~pyang/flash/miniputt.swf

cleo
Feb 14, 2003, 05:31 PM
v60 seems to have broken css positioning - my journal (dalqe.com) no longer displays correctly. boo. :(

crazzyeddie
Feb 14, 2003, 09:00 PM
You guys must type slow... if you hit the enter or return key before the computer can fill in the auto-complete... theres no problem. I do the same in all the other browsers I use, it takes the computer at least 1/2 second to load it.

jettredmont
Feb 17, 2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by crazzyeddie
You guys must type slow... if you hit the enter or return key before the computer can fill in the auto-complete... theres no problem. I do the same in all the other browsers I use, it takes the computer at least 1/2 second to load it.

That's a design element. Yes, there is generally by design a delay before the computer populates the auto-complete, not because it takes that long for the browser to "think" about it (I hope not!), but because a pause by the user indicates indecision, and until there is such a pause the program should and usually does assume the user knows what they're doing.

But, on the other hand, some days I do type slow. When I hand-type a URL (which really isn't very often at all ... 90% of my unlinked URLs come from cut/paste operations, not typing), I routinely hit forward-delete then return.