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View Full Version : Apple Music Revenue To Grow To US $15 Billion By 2010, Microsoft/MTV Urge Beta


MacRumors
May 15, 2006, 03:27 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

According to an analysis by independent research and consulting firm Generator (report summarized by Macsimum (http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/index/report_apple_music_revenues_to_reach_15_billion_by_2010)), Apple's music business could reach US $15 billion by 2010. Such an increase in revenue would represent a doubling of the size of Apple's income based only on their music revenue (iTMS/iPod).

"Most people now understand that Apple's music business is the main source of growth but what's not widely appreciated is just how big the music business could become in the future. It's a big worry for some people in the industry," says Andrew Sheehy, vice president of research at Generator.

Apple has continued to maintain its dominance in both digital music player sales and online music stores despite various competitive efforts by other industry players. Most recently, Microsoft and MTV have announced a public beta beginning this Wednesday (http://playlistmag.com/news/2006/05/15/urge/index.php) of their co-sponsored Urge music store which will be integrated into Windows Media Player 11.

drewyboy
May 15, 2006, 03:30 PM
Microcrap + MTV = suck/lame

Need i say more?

mattalici
May 15, 2006, 03:32 PM
Microcrap + MTV = suck/lame

Need i say more?

Exactly. This one was over before it begun.

NO COMPATABILITY WITH iPOD?! Good luck.

mcarnes
May 15, 2006, 03:33 PM
I have an URGE to take a crap. What a stupid name.

rockthecasbah
May 15, 2006, 03:33 PM
wow those are some pretty bold predictions for the iTunes Music Store!!! As great as I think that the iTMS is however, I have to take this with a grain of salt. There is always the chance that something better can come out and gain popularity, possibly something cheaper... But right now considering the iPod/iTunes dominance, this is certainly a plausible feat :)

hag
May 15, 2006, 03:34 PM
say 'thank you' to MS/MTV for giving Apple a reason to usher in a new era of iPod

Multimedia
May 15, 2006, 03:36 PM
Don't See Any Successful Challenges Working. iPod and iTunes are now household names and in use by almost everyone on both platforms. Apple will continue to rule and grow in this space. Go Go Halo Effect! :p

I URGE (weak) Microsoft and MTV to SURRENDER and stop wasting their time trying to defeat the winner after the fact. It's like BETA trying to stage a comeback after DVDs came on the scene.

Apple Shmapple
May 15, 2006, 03:39 PM
I don't understand all the hate for the Microsoft/MTV venture. Granted it sounds pretty lame but lets at least see how it plays out before we play "Taps".

Competition is a great thing. Maybe it could even change that buck everyone is paying per song into 75 cents or less. Ya never know.

mozmac
May 15, 2006, 03:39 PM
Apple can keep it's dominance. Sucks that MTV is on board with Microsoft because MTV can pretty much brainwash the entire age group of 13-25 if it so desires. However, Apple's got such an amazing head start that it can fight to keep it's lead.

maxp1
May 15, 2006, 03:39 PM
$15B represents a doubling of income but not a doubling of profit. Not even close. The profit margins on the music store are so slim that I doubt it'll make that much difference to the bottom line.

Butters
May 15, 2006, 03:40 PM
Can't wait to see URGE FLOP.

Multimedia
May 15, 2006, 03:43 PM
$15B represents a doubling of income but not a doubling of profit. Not even close. The profit margins on the music store are so slim that I doubt it'll make that much difference to the bottom line.Yes it will because of the Halo Effect. Especially when Boot Camp becomes common knowledge and is included with Leopard next year. :D

4God
May 15, 2006, 03:49 PM
Exactly. This one was over before it begun.

NO COMPATABILITY WITH iPOD?! Good luck.

Perfectly written. A joke for these guys to think that they can even compete. :rolleyes:

Wow, a failure to produce an OS on time (or that even works), failure to compete with online music downloads, failure to completely satisfy consumer demands, failure...failure...failure...

ChrisA
May 15, 2006, 03:50 PM
I think the iPod and iTunes will continue to "own" the market untill something just as good but half the price comes along. But this is not going to happen. Microsoft will not be able to sell songs at $0.50 each nor could anyone put 4GB of flash in a plays and sell it for $50.

4God
May 15, 2006, 03:51 PM
Can't wait to see URGE FLOP.

LOL Yeah, I URGE them to give up. :p

MacKenzie999
May 15, 2006, 03:51 PM
I say bring on as many music outlets as you can!

Competition is good for consumers. I recently discovered emusic.com and while my plan was to simply take the 50 free downloads and run, the service was cool enough that I'll actually remain a member for a month because I like what they're doing and want to support it (a little bit anyway).

Multimedia
May 15, 2006, 04:00 PM
LOL Yeah, I URGE them to give up. :p

:D Relisted.Selling my Quad w/ 6.5 GB of RAM and 30" display on eBay to upgrade to an Intel iMac.That would be a DOWN-grade from Quad to Intel iMac 4God. Perhaps you don't use all 4 processors simultaneously. But for those of us who do, the iMac is way weaker. Quad Intels are coming out probably July. Why waste your time with a Yonah iMac? That's a joke listing right? :p

miketcool
May 15, 2006, 04:01 PM
"Come on guys! Get the URGE. Get the URGE to be cool. Get the URGE to be IN. Get the URGE to rent your music. We've got that URGE to be on top, hip, cool, a contender. Afterall, its just an URGE."

dr_lha
May 15, 2006, 04:02 PM
I think the iPod and iTunes will continue to "own" the market untill something just as good but half the price comes along. But this is not going to happen. Microsoft will not be able to sell songs at $0.50 each nor could anyone put 4GB of flash in a plays and sell it for $50.
If Microsoft get dirty, this is exactly what they could do. They're not against throwing away money to win a market. Look at their Xbox division, hasn't done anything but lose money since they started it, yet they're currently pushing it hard.

If things get desperate enough, expect to start seeing stuff like "free compatible player when you sign up for a year with URGE" and the like.

LethalWolfe
May 15, 2006, 04:05 PM
Perfectly written. A joke for these guys to think that they can even compete. :rolleyes:

Wow, a failure to produce an OS on time (or that even works), failure to compete with online music downloads, failure to completely satisfy consumer demands, failure...failure...failure...

Yet for all those failures MS is still a massive, dominating entity. People said the Xbox was going to tank and that there was no way MS could compete w/Sony and Nintendo. Hmm.

Between MS massively deep pockets, and MTV's branding/influence w/a pivitol age group Urge has the best chance of any to compete w/Apple. Obviouslly the biggest hurdle is having a player that can compete w/the iPod.

Being smug and complacent is how companies stop being market leaders so I hope Apple never adopts the attitude of some of it's followers and assumes that other companies will never catch up.


Lethal

andiwm2003
May 15, 2006, 04:05 PM
so far i only own a few itunes songs. i also can download my audible books for a different format again. so i'm not locked in the ipod/itunes technology. if there is something cheap and nice out there i have no reason to stay with apple. therefore other companies still have a chance to be successful. not microsoft or real.;) but maybe some other company that actually knows what they're doing.

so bring on the competition. it only can be good for all of us.

corywoolf
May 15, 2006, 04:09 PM
Yes it will because of the Halo Effect. Especially when Boot Camp becomes common knowledge and is included with Leopard next year. :D

Boot Camp is probably not going to be around when Leopard comes out. It would make more sense for Apple to just build Windows Apps compatibility right into the OS. The user wont have to dual boot, it will all be on the same partition. I am thinking of Boot Camp as just the Beta and feeler for if it's worth building in native Windows compatibility into the next OS. I wouldn't be surprised if future Macs came with Windows standard. MacBook, Mac Mini, iMac come with Home Edition; MacBook Pro and Mac Pro (Power Mac) will come with Professional. Think Rosetta running Windows apps at native speeds. Of course the UI differences will be a challenge.

MrCrowbar
May 15, 2006, 04:11 PM
"Come on guys! Get the URGE. Get the URGE to be cool. Get the URGE to be IN. Get the URGE to rent your music. We've got that URGE to be on top, hip, cool, a contender. Afterall, its just an URGE."

Yea, I can imagine adds on MTV like "Do you feel the URGE too?"
What mozmac said is true. A product doesn't have to bee good to sell. I's all marketing. I'm sure there are spme players better than the iPod out there but we don't know of them. Young people fall for marketing and product placement. I mean, look into one of those teenager magazines, they're actually 99% advertizing for lifestyle stuff. MTV has great power on teenagers because MTV is "cool". If MTV says: "URGE rocks, iTunes s*cks", so be it. :mad:

craigsharp@spym
May 15, 2006, 04:16 PM
$15B represents a doubling of income but not a doubling of profit. Not even close. The profit margins on the music store are so slim that I doubt it'll make that much difference to the bottom line.

I'm not sure what Apples profits are, but lets say that apple makes 3 cents for every song, not including videos, but the margin will be $450,000,000 USD. I dont know where you come from, but that's not pocket change to me. now, if apple sold one quarter of the 15B$ in videos, making a mere 10 cents then the figure would be almost double my first total. Think about it, if apple pulls this off, say bye bye to microslop and winblows, Move OVER, there's a new Mayor in town.

longofest
May 15, 2006, 04:34 PM
Just to clarify some things: The prediction are music related revenue, which includes the iPod. So we are not just talking about the iTunes Music Store, but the iPod revenue as well.

As for my feelings about "Urge"... it could be the most serious competitor to iTunes, even though it lacks iPod support. Why do I say this? Because it will be bundled with every new Windows PC that ships with Vista (i.e. it is part of Windows Media Player 11). From the initial looks of it, they have done an okay job mimicking iTunes, so for people looking for a viable alternative to iTunes, Urge may be it. That's my $.02 anyways. iTunes still kicks arse.

macidiot
May 15, 2006, 04:42 PM
So what. Revenue is nice, but profit is better.

IBM's pc business had huge revenue. How'd that work out for them. :P

Apple makes more gross profit on the sale of one laptop than it does from selling 20,000 songs. More like 60k songs if your talking about net.

That article and study is silly and misleading.

longofest
May 15, 2006, 04:45 PM
So what. Revenue is nice, but profit is better.

IBM's pc business had huge revenue. How'd that work out for them. :P

Apple makes more gross profit on the sale of one laptop than it does from selling 20,000 songs. More like 60k songs if your talking about net.

That article and study is silly and misleading.

Not really. You just have to know what kind of figures you are looking at. You are also incorrectly assuming that they are talking about Apple's music business just being restricted to iTunes... remember the iPod is a huge profit maker.

craigsharp@spym
May 15, 2006, 04:53 PM
Just curious, how much does apple make off of songs, i had read somewhere a long time ago apple make about half the cost of each song, is this true? i cant see apple making that much, but if it is, then i could definately see apple doubling the companies "profits".

weitzner
May 15, 2006, 05:05 PM
i feel like microsoft and mtv are both fans of the subscription model, and that's just not working for anyone. the only reason apple was able to maintain the $.99/song is because of their market share. i doubt the record companies will allow urge to do this, or even that MS and MTV care to do it. we all know MS is a fan of tiered pricing for the same thing :D i think urge will flop because it's not going to make it easy to sync MP3 players and even if it could, it wouldn't be able to sync an iPod because it will use windows drm. urge isn't going anywhere

iJawn108
May 15, 2006, 05:06 PM
:rolleyes: Too bad the UI for WMP sucks donkey bullocks.

blueimac'00
May 15, 2006, 05:23 PM
nothing sucks as much as MTV. I hope that they invest a lot in this and then I hope they lose all their money. That would be awesome.
:rolleyes:

boncellis
May 15, 2006, 05:32 PM
I wonder how much pull MTV even has anymore. My experience is that it's usually limited to the mindless types--I guess they have money too, though.

Does Apple advertise on MTV? No matter how ubiquitous ads for the new service become, they just don't have the cachet of the iPod. As long as Apple doesn't skimp on its development, the iTMS will come along for the ride.

Brother Michael
May 15, 2006, 05:37 PM
"...because when I think music...oh yeah I think MTV!"

-Louis Black

macidiot
May 15, 2006, 05:57 PM
Just curious, how much does apple make off of songs, i had read somewhere a long time ago apple make about half the cost of each song, is this true? i cant see apple making that much, but if it is, then i could definately see apple doubling the companies "profits".

I believe that the music labels take about 50-65 cents, leaving 35-50 for Apple, which is probably where you get your numbers. But, most estimates are that Apple only makes about a penny per song, at most. However, at some point economies of scale have to kick in. Even so, for the itms to be materially significant for Apple, sales would have to be in the billions. Billions of songs/year that is.

macidiot
May 15, 2006, 06:09 PM
Not really. You just have to know what kind of figures you are looking at. You are also incorrectly assuming that they are talking about Apple's music business just being restricted to iTunes... remember the iPod is a huge profit maker.

Well, having read the article, yes, I knew that it included the iPod business. However, the title implied the music store. And, to the layman, it suggests profits. Personally, I consider the iPod under the "peripheral/other hardware" category. Or does the study include the iPod socks as part of the "music business?" Because I wouldn't really consider iPod socks as music. They would be knitwear. ;)

And it is implied that it is the itms that will be the driver. When, like you said, its the iPod that is the profit maker.

In other words, the article is misleading. What it should say is something like "Apple's total iPod business expected to grow to 15 billion by 2010."

MacMosher
May 15, 2006, 06:14 PM
How like MS, always trying to catch up.

Seasought
May 15, 2006, 06:16 PM
JFrom the initial looks of it, they have done an okay job mimicking iTunes, so for people looking for a viable alternative to iTunes, Urge may be it. That's my $.02 anyways. iTunes still kicks arse.

That's a good point. A friend of mine isn't fond of iTunes at all and has already been looking for alternatives. To be honest, I think the only reason that "Urge" might have an advantage is with by it being bundled with the OS as you stated (much like iTunes is). It's more convenient.

Now, if it acts anything like the Windows Media Player of old then people will drop it and get iTunes in a heartbeat. If M$ is smart (ok, let me re-word that...savvy...no wait...perceptive...damn it...competent...no, that's not possible either...) they'll improve on iTunes' existing design with their own "Urge" clone. :D

bommai
May 15, 2006, 06:21 PM
That's a good point. A friend of mine isn't fond of iTunes at all and has already been looking for alternatives. To be honest, I think the only reason that "Urge" might have an advantage is with by it being bundled with the OS as you stated (much like iTunes is). It's more convenient.

Now, if it acts anything like the Windows Media Player of old then people will drop it and get iTunes in a heartbeat. If M$ is smart (ok, let me re-word that...savvy...no wait...perceptive...damn it...competent...no, that's not possible either...) they'll improve on iTunes' existing design with their own "Urge" clone. :D

I think we just have to look at the following article and use it hands on before passing judgment.

http://news.com.com/2300-1025_3-6072445.html?tag=ne.gall.latest

I think looking at the screenshots, it looks pretty good. However, I won't be able to tell how well it works until I see it working. However, as a home mac user, this is irrelavant for me. But the millions of PC iTunes users might give this a try. However, the iPod is the deal breaker for MS/Urge.

Multimedia
May 15, 2006, 06:30 PM
Boot Camp is probably not going to be around when Leopard comes out. It would make more sense for Apple to just build Windows Apps compatibility right into the OS. The user wont have to dual boot, it will all be on the same partition. I am thinking of Boot Camp as just the Beta and feeler for if it's worth building in native Windows compatibility into the next OS. I wouldn't be surprised if future Macs came with Windows standard. MacBook, Mac Mini, iMac come with Home Edition; MacBook Pro and Mac Pro (Power Mac) will come with Professional. Think Rosetta running Windows apps at native speeds. Of course the UI differences will be a challenge.Apple has said officially two things related to your very misguided opinion.

1. Boot Camp will be a part of Leopard.
2. Apple will not sell nor support Windows operating systems.

Stridder44
May 15, 2006, 07:24 PM
So what does this Windows Media Player 11 look like? I've heard there's a leak of WMP 11 (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31723) and that some things have changed for the better (not that I think it can really compete with iTunes).

shrimpdesign
May 15, 2006, 07:51 PM
:rolleyes: Too bad the UI for WMP sucks donkey bullocks.
I agree to that.

They replaced the menu with a bunch of bars, which isn't so bad, but then they don't do the same thing. (i.e. most of them bring up menus, but a few just don't) So the user is left guessing that the buttons do. Not good.

It's too wordy. iTunes makes use of decriptive buttons; you know what they do without words, Microsoft just spells it out. Users would rather know what something does rather than read it, and then know what it does.

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5231_wmp_0015.jpg

Apple makes good use of white space. WMP kills it's dog, blows up it's house, steals it's car and slices it up into small pieces and stomps on it.

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5231_wmp_0001.jpg

Everything is called "My music" "My playlists" OKAY I get it. It's mine. Why do they need to label that? Unless WMP loads other people's music instead of my own, they shouldn't have to label it like that. Microsoft assumes you're an idiot.

The sidebar isn't distinguished from the main content very well. Again, makes it look like too much white space.

ArizonaKid
May 15, 2006, 08:41 PM
So what does this Windows Media Player 11 look like? I've heard there's a leak of WMP 11 (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31723) and that some things have changed for the better (not that I think it can really compete with iTunes).

I am using Media Player 11 on Windows XP Pro right now. I posted some pictures to Flickr so you can see what it looks like.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29263545@N00/?saved=1

AvSRoCkCO1067
May 15, 2006, 08:46 PM
I am using Media Player 11 on Windows XP Pro right now. I posted some pictures to Flickr so you can see what it looks like.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29263545@N00/?saved=1

Much appreciated. How's it feel - is it fast and responsive, do you like the user interface and the color scheme, do you prefer it over iTunes (what features do you prefer in iTunes/WMP 11?)

ArizonaKid
May 15, 2006, 09:09 PM
Much appreciated. How's it feel - is it fast and responsive, do you like the user interface and the color scheme, do you prefer it over iTunes (what features do you prefer in iTunes/WMP 11?)

I would not say that I prefer it over iTunes, but I don't prefer iTunes over Media player. There just different.

I would still say iTunes has an edge in organizing music files...but I am still hoping iTunes will include a "folder monitoring" feature for the PC someday:mad: .

I move my music files around a lot, and without those .ds storage files (as on the Mac), moving files on the PC breaks the link in iTunes.

On Video Files: iTunes is still very awkward when playing video files. WMP handles videos, and organizes them, much better. Apple choose to make iTunes more than a music player with their new video features, but they have yet to update iTunes to have a decent media playback and organization. It will come.

The speed of WMP is very fast, outside of URGE. iTunes has always operated a little slugish on Windows, but its getting better.

On URGE, it is a ways from complete. Navigation is much more confusing, and getting in and out of URGE is rather slow. It is really not fair for me to make that judgement, since the service is not officialy running. But if the speed is the same when it debuts it will not be good.

On the whole, WMP 11 is a good alternative. Note that I say alternative. That should be a little concerning for Apple, since before WMP 10 wasn't even in the same ballpark. The big problem with WMP is that it doesn't have a iPod counterpart, and if Apple continues to advance the way it does than it should hold onto its lead.

But of course Apple can make the same mistake as Microsoft. Getting so big-rich-and fat that they become lazy, less efficient, and less innovative. Then some other ""Apple"" steps in to innovate and create a whole other game.

66217
May 15, 2006, 09:58 PM
I downloaded WMP 11, and yes, I must accept is a HUGE improvement from WMP 10, but IMO iTunes is still a much more user friendly music player. I found adding music to WMP11 is much more confusing that with iTunes. Microsoft tend to make things sofisticated.

iTunes also has a much better color combination. It has less bottons and a more direct user interface.

WMP11 has the nice feature of being able to search for the album information. Something that iTunes lacks. Importing Artwork with iTunes has always been such a tedius work. (At least on PC's).

And iTunes has the iPod and what I think is the best online music store. Lets see how WMP 11 works when it is no longer on beta version.

It would be cool if Apple turns up with an update that adds cool futures to iTunes, leaving MS again in the back. Because it seems the "war" of the music player and stores has started.:D

jbernie
May 15, 2006, 10:53 PM
Microcrap + MTV = suck/lame

Need i say more?

Unfortunately the history of the computer world is littered with companies who had similar thoughts to yours, most of those companies do not exist or have been bought out by another company and never been the same since.

A few companies continue to do well, basically, if your competitors include Microsoft you should continue to innovate and improve your product as much as you can else you risk joining all other failures.

Not saying that Apple will fail, but people who laugh at MS and whatever product it releases risk failure.

Sony thinks that releasing its base PS3 at $100 more than the high end XBOX360 will provide serious competition, alot of people will go wow what graphics as they walk by with their xbox 360 and a few games on the way to the check out.

Back on track, the screen shots of MS Media Player 11 look very promising, alot better than all the other releases. One thing that has held the competition back is the interface, iTunes works very well, But the monthly payment for unlimited songs is also very appealing. The market looks very interesting and is still very much alive.

YoGramMamma
May 15, 2006, 11:59 PM
I think Apple can do a few thigns to keep the lead in the game.

1. New iPod. We all know this is inevitable, but the sooner they get this out, the better. Also they could use this to take some initial focus off of URGE when its officially launched. You know, newsflash "Today Apple just released another iPod which does this and this. In other news microsoft/mtv launched urge.

2. Add some nice new improvements to iTunes itself. This is also coming, and I think once alot of the *Intel switch*, *Leopard coming soon* dust settles, we'll see some good innovation in this area.

3. THey could attempt a similar joint venture with MTV, but focus on computers and other stuff. I know the iPod is where its at 'coolfactor wise', and this would be stooping low, but if they can get the TRL cast and other shows to wave around Macbooks and iMacs, and tout the video chatting, cool look, and iLife abilities, they could take the steam away from the URGE train by other means.

They wouldnt even have to mention anythign directly about the computers, just provide them for use in the shows. SO little suzy watches TRL, real world, date my mom/dad/son whatever... and sees Carson's unworthy successors, amongst an array of 15-minutes-of-fame-ers using shiny new computers, apple computers.. she sees it working, no technical issues, no compatibility issues... She wants one. She asks mommy, and of course she gets it. She also needs an mp3 player and some music to put on it. Shes heard about this URGE thing and looks into it. She contemplates the droves of possible mp3 players, and the monthly fee mom will have to pay. All her friends, however, have iPods, pink ones, blue ones, nanos, etc. She figures, well its an Apple iPod, and an Apple Macbook, so i know it will work. She ditches the idea of URGE and any other mp3 player. Apple Wins, and they didnt even do any "counter-marketing" directly on the iPod/iTUnes level.

my $.02

Lollypop
May 16, 2006, 12:25 AM
MS/MTV will need to bring out a version for the mac, if they dont they will never be able to completely eradicate itunes or even compete fully, Apple has the mac as its stronghold, so what if the windows people go for urge because its nicely integrated into WMP11? The only thing it achieves is giving apple time to add a few cool new features to itunes and the ipod (borrow the one or 2 from urge), make some flashy new adds and refocus their campaign, they keep their "home" market safe and then re-attemt competing with something that wont support everyones ipod.

The world is all about interoperability, look at XML and HTML and RSS, all supported by every platform becauase (in the most cases) its remained standard and open, both MS/MTV and apple needs to learn this, Apple just seems a bit ahead of the game (itunes on windows and mac).

zap2
May 16, 2006, 03:04 PM
MTV is selling show on iTMS thats not really the best plan:rolleyes:

stunna
May 19, 2006, 09:28 AM
I agree to that.

They replaced the menu with a bunch of bars, which isn't so bad, but then they don't do the same thing. (i.e. most of them bring up menus, but a few just don't) So the user is left guessing that the buttons do. Not good.

It's too wordy. iTunes makes use of decriptive buttons; you know what they do without words, Microsoft just spells it out. Users would rather know what something does rather than read it, and then know what it does.

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5231_wmp_0015.jpg

Apple makes good use of white space. WMP kills it's dog, blows up it's house, steals it's car and slices it up into small pieces and stomps on it.

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/vista_5231_wmp_0001.jpg

Everything is called "My music" "My playlists" OKAY I get it. It's mine. Why do they need to label that? Unless WMP loads other people's music instead of my own, they shouldn't have to label it like that. Microsoft assumes you're an idiot.

The sidebar isn't distinguished from the main content very well. Again, makes it look like too much white space.

windows media player does load up other peoples music and their videos

octoberdeath
May 19, 2006, 05:10 PM
i have never been a fan of windows media player. it has always been clunky and never works right. my old pc and my parents pc have always had problems running movies in media player and have always run slow. we try to run windows media player for our organizations dvd playback and it barely gets the job done... the audio is always a few seconds ahead of the video as well. all in all media player sucks... and i can't stand it; yet some people like it.

ncook06
May 25, 2006, 08:08 AM
Don't think of this as a battle that's already won.

A while back, Gates was speaking with some high school students and was asked if MS would release anything to compete with iPod. This may be released next to those "iPod Killers" Gates referred to then. As long as there is a player released, we are going to see serious competition.

EDIT: Apple would still have one thing going for them if this is the case. Most of the people who have bought music in iTunes are not going to want to throw it all away by switching.

ncook06
May 25, 2006, 08:19 AM
MS/MTV will need to bring out a version for the mac, if they dont they will never be able to completely eradicate itunes or even compete fully, Apple has the mac as its stronghold, so what if the windows people go for urge because its nicely integrated into WMP11? The only thing it achieves is giving apple time to add a few cool new features to itunes and the ipod (borrow the one or 2 from urge), make some flashy new adds and refocus their campaign, they keep their "home" market safe and then re-attemt competing with something that wont support everyones ipod.

Apple's customers are loyal enough that it should not make a difference. But if even 50% of the MS base switches to Urge, Apple will be in trouble.

octoberdeath
May 25, 2006, 08:58 AM
Apple's customers are loyal enough that it should not make a difference. But if even 50% of the MS base switches to Urge, Apple will be in trouble.


well not everyone on windows uses iTunes anyway... and if you mean 50% of iTunes users switch i don't think it would be that big of a deal. apple would finally be sharing the market with someone else for a change instead of dominating it. either way i'm not worried... i just want more content and a video iPod with movie content.

billyboy
May 25, 2006, 09:38 AM
Just to clarify some things: The prediction are music related revenue, which includes the iPod. So we are not just talking about the iTunes Music Store, but the iPod revenue as well.



I dont have fˇgures, but arent itunes music store tracks on iPods a piddly percentage of all music stored on iPods?

Of course 15bn songs floating around will attract iPod sales. To what degree though depends on whether didgital downloads eat significantly into cd sales.

Most of the thinking here seems focussed on the poor saps like MTV trying to hit Apple´s business plan into touch, but what people dont talk about much is how the conventional dinosaurs in the music industry may yet mutate into business folk and respond to somehow bridge the gap between $1 for the only good track on a crap CD and the hard copy $17 CD bought for the one good track on it.

mwpeters8182
May 25, 2006, 10:18 AM
I signed up for the 14 day free trial of Urge (you don't need a credit card or anything, so what the heck?). Let me preface the review by saying that I do actually like the subscription model, and am currently a subscriber to Rhapsody.

It's really not too bad. I like the integration with WMP11. Searching the store is nice, as it starts searching as you type, much like searching through your library on iTunes. I think the songs are 128Kbps (though I haven't downloaded any, so I don't know if that's just the streaming bitrate) - Rhapsody is 192.

Overall, I still like Rhapsody better, I think the interface is a little more refined, but it might just be a case of getting used to Urge. I'll check in again when my 14 days are over.

Rantipole
May 25, 2006, 02:44 PM
What does MTV have to do with music? :confused:



;)

shrimpdesign
May 26, 2006, 12:31 AM
windows media player does load up other peoples music and their videos
Oh. That's not so cool. Talk about invasion of privacy.