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MacRumors
May 16, 2006, 08:27 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In addition to the MacBook introduction today, Apple has quietly bumped the specs of its MacBook Pro (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/) line, leaving pricepoints unchanged.

The lineup currently stands as:
15.4" 2.0Ghz Core Duo, $1,999
15.4" 2.16Ghz Core Duo, $2,499
17" 2.16Ghz Core Duo, $2,799

Customers are also now able to custom-build their MacBook Pro with a glossy screen at no additional charge.

shabbasuraj
May 16, 2006, 08:29 AM
End-Users/Apple are finally realizing the advantages of Intel...

MacRumorUser
May 16, 2006, 08:31 AM
As I said they would.

badlydrawnboy
May 16, 2006, 08:32 AM
haven't heard of this

~Shard~
May 16, 2006, 08:32 AM
It's nice to see that Apple is stepping up the pace with respect to its updates now that they are an Intel shop. Hopefully we will continue to see frequent speed bumps, etc. like this. To compete with the likes of Dell, etc., Apple pretty much has to - updates every 6 months simply doesn't cut it anymore. :cool:

finchna
May 16, 2006, 08:32 AM
but still no FW800 or DL DVD burner support on the 15"

berkleeboy210
May 16, 2006, 08:33 AM
My MBP is obselete already :( I'm really intrigued by those Black MacBooks this thing might go on eBay soon once i read some reviews!

surroundfan
May 16, 2006, 08:33 AM
As was pointed out in this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=201191) (beat you Macrumors :p), there have also been price cuts on the 17" model in some jurisdictions. For example, in Oz, the price has dropped from $4599 to $4399...

aristobrat
May 16, 2006, 08:34 AM
but still no FW800 or DL DVD burner support on the 15"
Is there a drive that does this that fits in the 15" case yet? I thought the only reason the 17" got this was because the trackpad didn't sit over the drive (so there was more room for a bigger drive)?

pincho
May 16, 2006, 08:34 AM
:( bought the 1.83ghz version 3 weeks ago, now im wanting 2.0ghz and the shiny screen

Aaon
May 16, 2006, 08:37 AM
Well, as a 1.83 owner, I admit to some disappointment, but hey, life's tough in the aluminum siding business.

I'm happy to see that updates in the intel era won't be limited to 6 month or longer major releases, but will in fact be updated to keep up with the bleeding edge of technology. Good job Apple!

I am also pretty intrigued by the glossy screen that Apple is offering. I love the colors on that style of screen in general, but always feel like they suffer from quite a lot of glare. I'm nto sure which I would have picked had there been a choice when I bought!

:( bought the 1.83ghz version 3 weeks ago, now im wanting 2.0ghz and the shiny screen

I'm feelin' for you, I'm in the same boat exactly!

pincho
May 16, 2006, 08:39 AM
do u think some of my defects that i have not sent in for repair yet can be traded for a new glossy one :p :D

guzhogi
May 16, 2006, 08:40 AM
:( bought the 1.83ghz version 3 weeks ago, now im wanting 2.0ghz and the shiny screen

You might be able to use Apple's trade-in program or up-to-date or whatever it's called to get the new 2 GHz one

61132
May 16, 2006, 08:40 AM
so glossy or not glossy? Im getting my mbp replaced,lol. Maybe they added that cool right click thing also?

amac4me
May 16, 2006, 08:42 AM
I have to commend Apple for another round bumps with no charge. I do however feel for those who have already purchased MacBook Pros.

Mitch1984
May 16, 2006, 08:42 AM
haven't heard of this
Check this out.
http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,118951,00.asp

pincho
May 16, 2006, 08:44 AM
guzhogi, whats this trade in u talk about?

ibble9012, how? :P are u in the two week period, or just out of it and complaining a lot :P

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 08:45 AM
Is it just me that noticed that the 2.0ghz MacBook has nearly the same specs speed wize as the 2.16 MBP. Granted it is nice that the consumer laptop is that nicley priced but is is absurd that the MBP came out costing as much as it did. What are the benefits of the MBP at this point other than the screen and the hard drive. The 15'' MBP is pretty much obselete right now and I could not see anyone paying the money for that computer.

thefunkymunky
May 16, 2006, 08:45 AM
UK prices have gone up by £100 on each model.:rolleyes: :confused:

Aaon
May 16, 2006, 08:46 AM
You might be able to use Apple's trade-in program or up-to-date or whatever it's called to get the new 2 GHz one

I can't say I've ever heard of this.... What is it?

longofest
May 16, 2006, 08:46 AM
Is it just me that noticed that the 2.0ghz MacBook has nearly the same specs speed wize as the 2.16 MBP. Granted it is nice that the consumer laptop is that nicley priced but is is absurd that the MBP came out costing as much as it did. What are the benefits of the MBP at this point other than the screen and the hard drive. The 15'' MBP is pretty much obselete right now and I could not see anyone paying the money for that computer.

two words: dedicated video

61132
May 16, 2006, 08:48 AM
Ok, My replacement MBP order was changed, but what actually got changed? lol, maybe a model without whine, with right click? what does "no Optional SW" mean in the top order?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/dibble9012/untitled.jpg

iGav
May 16, 2006, 08:48 AM
glossy screen = designers nightmare...:p

pincho
May 16, 2006, 08:49 AM
two words: dedicated video
dedicated video + bigger screen + backlit keyboard (although minor, it come out handy, using it right now)

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 08:50 AM
Ok I now see a huge difference that graphics card on the MacBook is an Intel... Ehhhh... More $ to get the Nvidia.

thefunkymunky
May 16, 2006, 08:50 AM
Reading this. I think I prefer the standard (not glossy) screen.:cool:

mino
May 16, 2006, 08:50 AM
The Black model costs a lot more than the white one with same specifications!
You can upgrade the white to 80Gb with 50$...

Will_reed
May 16, 2006, 08:51 AM
I had a suspision it would have intel graphics and I was right, But still I might just pick up a black macbook for myself one day.

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 08:51 AM
I want my g-card so still looking forward to my 17'' in a week:D

pincho
May 16, 2006, 08:51 AM
Ok I now see a huge difference that graphics card on the MacBook is an Intel... Ehhhh... More $ to get the Nvidia.
Ati :p

Yvan256
May 16, 2006, 08:52 AM
but still no FW800 or DL DVD burner support on the 15"

A simple faster processor upgrade doesn't equal to a redesign of the computer.

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 08:53 AM
The Black model costs a lot more than the white one with same specifications!
You can upgrade the white to 80Gb with 50$...


The black one is simply just pimp

iMeowbot
May 16, 2006, 08:57 AM
glossy screen = designers nightmare...:p
Not a problem. Just remember to wear a jacket whenever you take your computer out, and you can drape it across your head and the screen while you work!

mrwilly123
May 16, 2006, 08:57 AM
Ok, My replacement MBP order was changed, but what actually got changed? lol, maybe a model without whine, with right click? what does "no Optional SW" mean in the top order?

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h217/dibble9012/untitled.jpg

SW=software. You didn't order any extra software.

excalibur313
May 16, 2006, 08:58 AM
So I know they have the deal where if you have just bought a computer they will price match it within 10 days. What about the 1.83? Am I just out of luck because they technically don't carry it anymore?

61132
May 16, 2006, 08:59 AM
I really think, or at least would like to think, that there was a revision for the mbp's motherboard or whatnot, why would apple replace my order with the SAME EXACT thing today, unless there are some other changes that arent advertised

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 09:02 AM
Isn't this what people dreaded an Intel Graphics Chip on the MacBook. People who think they are going to play games on this are very wrong. This is truly no MBP so whoever thinks their MBP is obselete is wrong. Maybe your processor is but you all have a very good graphics card as supposed to the crap they are putting in the MB. Be happy that you have the best laptop on the market all of you with the MBP, mine still isnt here.


WHERE IS MY 17'' MBP. June 1st cant come soon enough....
PS. Does anyone know if apple typically delivers their products faster then the estimated delivery time.

Diatribe
May 16, 2006, 09:03 AM
As I said in the MacBook thread. Have you guys ever seen those screens? THEY SUCK. You can't use them if there is light, sun or anything else similar, which means you can't use them outside, which defeats the purpose of having a notebook in the first place.
At least it is an option for the MBP, because if not I might have bough my last Apple portable... :eek: (scary thought, but yes I hate those screens THAT much)

Oh and try to use a white shirt with those... looks great, but I suppose yu'll never need a mirror anymore.

icecavern
May 16, 2006, 09:10 AM
Not happy that I've only had my MBP17 for 5 days and already the price has been dropped by £100... :mad:

tip
May 16, 2006, 09:14 AM
Argh. My 15" 2.0 is now $500 cheaper. At least it's still current. :D


Come to think of it, since the Minis are upgradeable (albeit warranty-voiding DIY), it would be nice if Apple standardized on the current cases (Mini, MB, MBP, etc.) for a few years and offered *real* upgrades (not like the partial ones many years ago).

Mr. DG
May 16, 2006, 09:15 AM
the uk price of the 15" is now back to the same as the 1.67 G4, £30 less than it was yesterday.

DimFlicker
May 16, 2006, 09:15 AM
YAYAYAYAYAYA I was in class and almost had a heart attack! I just ordered my MACBOOK!!!!

doug.hall
May 16, 2006, 09:16 AM
Not happy that I've only had my MBP17 for 5 days and already the price has been dropped by £100... :mad:
Why? You were happy to pay the price at the time. Prices will always go down and I think it is a good thing that apple pass the cost reductions onto their customers. I suspect the cost reduction is due to the reduction in costs of the core duo chips from intel which reduced mid May.

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 09:17 AM
Dont we all wish Apple still had power pc chips so that they could only update the processor once every 5 years :p

Quixcube
May 16, 2006, 09:17 AM
OK, it is finally time to replace my Pismo.

The Apple logo looks so good against a black background, I don't know why they waited so long to bring it back.

infernohellion
May 16, 2006, 09:23 AM
I am still a little bit confused about the glossy screens. From what I read from the Apple Store, it seems like glossy screen has a bigger advantages than normal screens.

How does it help anyway and is there any big cons that I would hate glossy screens? I have seen a lot of them in my school and they all look so inflective!!!

DimFlicker
May 16, 2006, 09:23 AM
As I said in the MacBook thread. Have you guys ever seen those screens? THEY SUCK. You can't use them if there is light, sun or anything else similar, which means you can't use them outside, which defeats the purpose of having a notebook in the first place.
At least it is an option for the MBP, because if not I might have bough my last Apple portable... :eek: (scary thought, but yes I hate those screens THAT much)

Oh and try to use a white shirt with those... looks great, but I suppose yu'll never need a mirror anymore.

Thats not entirely true. Its florescent light that is the worst. I sell them a lot at Staples and ask customers for feedback on the screens. Most of them tell me its at its worst in the store and then when outside or in a dimlit room its actually better.

61132
May 16, 2006, 09:24 AM
cant wait till I get my mbp, hopefully no whine :)

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 09:29 AM
They need to think of something that doesnt act like Faraday's Cage for the case of the MBP

icecavern
May 16, 2006, 09:34 AM
Why? You were happy to pay the price at the time. Prices will always go down and I think it is a good thing that apple pass the cost reductions onto their customers. I suspect the cost reduction is due to the reduction in costs of the core duo chips from intel which reduced mid May.

Well I waited well over a week for it to be delivered from shipping, it has a dead pixel, it whines when fully charged and now it's £100 cheaper...

I know prices of technology always fall but dropping the price only 5 days after the first batch were delivered in the UK isn't very good customer relations.

Diatribe
May 16, 2006, 09:36 AM
Thats not entirely true. Its florescent light that is the worst. I sell them a lot at Staples and ask customers for feedback on the screens. Most of them tell me its at its worst in the store and then when outside or in a dimlit room its actually better.

Yeah, you're right, but that doesn't make them usable outside either, just not as bad as inside with the wrong light.
Either way those screens should be optional as they are a pain in the butt with light shining on them, especially when you wear bright clothes.

David Crellen
May 16, 2006, 09:38 AM
What on earth is a "Glossy Screen" and is it better than the regular kind of screen?

Diatribe
May 16, 2006, 09:41 AM
What on earth is a "Glossy Screen" and is it better than the regular kind of screen?

A glossy screen, makes colors more vivid, has better contrast, etc. but only if you're in a dark room. If there's any light shining onto the display you'll get a reflection like a mirror.

Now please anyone tell me again you want one. Only Apple can market a bug as a feature...:rolleyes:

ClimbingTheLog
May 16, 2006, 09:42 AM
Apple is on crack. I've worked with Sony and Dells with those glossy screens and they're abysmal. Sitting next to a window makes the screens unusable.

I was going to buy a MacBook today. With the poor wireless reception on the Pro and the glossy screens on the MacBook it looks like maybe I'll be after one of the new Asus laptops instead. Hopefully I can get Mac OS X to run on it.

Apple - sell me a BTO MacBook without the glossy screen. Please, take my money.

Diatribe
May 16, 2006, 09:44 AM
Apple is on crack. I've worked with Sony and Dells with those glossy screens and they're abysmal. Sitting next to a window makes the screens unusable.

I was going to buy a MacBook today. With the poor wireless reception on the Pro and the glossy screens on the MacBook it looks like maybe I'll be after one of the new Asus laptops instead. Hopefully I can get Mac OS X to run on it.

Apple - sell me a BTO MacBook without the glossy screen. Please, take my money.

At least some people with common sense around here. ;)

Mehari
May 16, 2006, 09:44 AM
So happy to have waited until today... if you had asked me some 3 weeks ago I would have said that the new 13" MacBook (Pro) would be on my desk as soon as it gets released but since it was unavailable I was hesitating between the expensive-for-its-features 15" and the way-too-big-for-me giant 17".... Now there is the big news, long awaited... and after a careful review of the "store" pages, I will buy a....... 15"....

The 13" is great yet expected, it lacks some whistles and bells that I would have love to see if it was a "pro" version (backlit keyboard amongst others).. but no, this cool gadget is positionned towards the youngies... so I'll go for the 15" because the price is now right and they fixed the stupid but frustrating speed difference between the two "high-end" models...

The order will go tommorow !

KREX725
May 16, 2006, 09:44 AM
Why? You were happy to pay the price at the time. Prices will always go down and I think it is a good thing that apple pass the cost reductions onto their customers. I suspect the cost reduction is due to the reduction in costs of the core duo chips from intel which reduced mid May.

Being in the Intel camp now, the more frequent speed bumps will also mean the Apple top of the line machines will only hold those titles for a short time, as opposed to what we've grown used to with PPC, where a 1.8 can stay in the lineup for years.

surroundfan
May 16, 2006, 09:45 AM
...

Now please anyone tell me again you want one. Only Apple can market a bug as a feature...:rolleyes:

Probably the marketing folk saying 'we need a super bright screen for in-store displays - the anti-glare screens can't compete against HPs and Toshibas with their shiny screens...' :rolleyes:

Porco
May 16, 2006, 09:46 AM
Well I waited well over a week for it to be delivered from shipping, it has a dead pixel, it whines when fully charged and now it's £100 cheaper...

I know prices of technology always fall but dropping the price only 5 days after the first batch were delivered in the UK isn't very good customer relations.

If you ring and complain enough, they should refund you the difference. For you to not even have it a week and the price drop by that much, they'd be silly not to. As a last resort you could probably send it back for a full refund and then re-order. I've always found the UK Apple Store to be very reasonable if you explain the situation.

macnews
May 16, 2006, 09:47 AM
I think the biggest change to intel aspect that old time mac users need to get used are more frequent updates. I remember when I used a PC checking out new machines every month. It is just how the industry worked. Heck, my first PC was outdated in three months.

Frankly, I prefer the more frequent updates so long as I know they continue. I find it better than the "we will be at X ghz in a year" promise.

icecavern
May 16, 2006, 09:48 AM
If you ring and complain enough, they should refund you the difference. For you to not even have it a week and the price drop by that much, they'd be silly not to. As a last resort you could probably send it back for a full refund and then re-order. I've always found the UK Apple Store to be very reasonable if you explain the situation.

Well I could send it back and get a new one which would save me £40 after the £60 shipping fee I'd be charged. But then I'd have to wait for another one.

That's assuming they don't accept that this noise I have is a fault. I need to contact them about that first.

mozmac
May 16, 2006, 09:48 AM
2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button.....

Apple...when are you going to put a second mouse button on your laptops? You're shipping Mighty Mouse with computers, why not put something like that on the trackpad? If you are going to promote that you can run Windows natively, you can keep your stubborn, head-up-your-anus philosophy and not include a second mouse button.

One of our main clients was ready to switch everything over to MacBook Pros last month. They bought one to test it out and one of their biggest compaints was the lack of a second mouse button. They've decided to hold of and stick with ThinkPads. I don't know when they will give Apple another try now.

icecavern
May 16, 2006, 09:50 AM
Being in the Intel camp now, the more frequent speed bumps will also mean the Apple top of the line machines will only hold those titles for a short time, as opposed to what we've grown used to with PPC, where a 1.8 can stay in the lineup for years.


I hope they don't bump the specs and lower prices every other week...:eek:

icecavern
May 16, 2006, 09:51 AM
2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button.....

Apple...when are you going to put a second mouse button on your laptops? You're shipping Mighty Mouse with computers, why not put something like that on the trackpad? If you are going to promote that you can run Windows natively, you can keep your stubborn, head-up-your-anus philosophy and not include a second mouse button.

One of our main clients was ready to switch everything over to MacBook Pros last month. They bought one to test it out and one of their biggest compaints was the lack of a second mouse button. They've decided to hold of and stick with ThinkPads. I don't know when they will give Apple another try now.

The track pad does a right click... Put 2 fingers on the pad and click and it does a right click. It's quite cool actually.

Mitch1984
May 16, 2006, 09:53 AM
Just because Apple are speed bumping every 3 months doesn't mean that you machine won't still last 3 to 3.5 years from when it came out.

heisetax
May 16, 2006, 09:53 AM
dedicated video + bigger screen + backlit keyboard (although minor, it come out handy, using it right now)


Besides these important differences there is one thing that will allow you to make up for some of the things that Apple left out of the MacBook Pro or are just plain left out of all portables & that is the ExpressCard/34 expansion slot. Add to this a PCExpress expansion buss & then you can have several added features like a third & 4th displays or eSATA bus.

Bill the TaxMan

crees!
May 16, 2006, 09:53 AM
My MBP is obselete already :( I'm really intrigued by those Black MacBooks this thing might go on eBay soon once i read some reviews!

That's ashame it doesn't work anymore. How bout you return it? Black is better.

CubaTBird
May 16, 2006, 09:54 AM
i had just ordered a macbook pro 2 days ago.. cmon' apple.... will my order reflect the new model now? the 2.16 version? bah...

corywoolf
May 16, 2006, 09:56 AM
My MBP is obselete already :( I'm really intrigued by those Black MacBooks this thing might go on eBay soon once i read some reviews!
I wouldn't say obsolete, what can it not do today that it could have done yesterday? The 1.83 Ghz MBP is still a very nice machine (I own one), and I am actually glad I bought it when I did. It sucks for people more now because there is less of a barrier between the MBP and MB. If I didn't buy my MBP when I did, I would be waiting until the Merom comes out. At least we 1.83s aren't 1.66ers, then I might be mad. Just glad Apple bumped up the specs before the release of the Rev. A's.

mozmac
May 16, 2006, 09:57 AM
The track pad does a right click... Put 2 fingers on the pad and click and it does a right click. It's quite cool actually.

I know Apple has come up with "creative" ways of right-clicking. However, when you have a 55 year old millionaire who has finally learned how to use PowerPoint and Outlook, switching to a new computer is scary enough, without having to be told, "Okay, to right-click, you hold both fingers down and then click." Why does Apple insist on spending precious R&D money coming up with new ways of right clicking? How about putting a right mouse button and there and then everyone knows how to do it and you can go on to invent something else cool?

Thanks for pointing out the double-finger right-click, but, it's not acceptible for Apple to think that it's a replacement for a right mouse button.

dekator
May 16, 2006, 09:58 AM
UK prices have gone up by £100 on each model.:rolleyes: :confused:

Euro prices in Germany have gone down: €150/170/50. Too bad you Brits don't have the strong Euro :p

crees!
May 16, 2006, 09:59 AM
As I said in the MacBook thread. Have you guys ever seen those screens? THEY SUCK. You can't use them if there is light, sun or anything else similar, which means you can't use them outside, which defeats the purpose of having a notebook in the first place.
At least it is an option for the MBP, because if not I might have bough my last Apple portable... :eek: (scary thought, but yes I hate those screens THAT much)

Oh and try to use a white shirt with those... looks great, but I suppose yu'll never need a mirror anymore.

I have a hard enough time seeing my PBG4 screen while outside.

Diatribe
May 16, 2006, 10:02 AM
I have a hard enough time seeing my PBG4 screen while outside.

Trust me it is only gonna get worse and not only outside but inside with any light on too.
I wouldn't bitch as much if this were an option. There might be people out there who only use their laptop in a dark room but I know none of those.

BlizzardBomb
May 16, 2006, 10:04 AM
UK prices have gone up by £100 on each model.:rolleyes: :confused:

I'm pretty sure the starting price used to be £1,429.

BlackLilyNinja
May 16, 2006, 10:05 AM
my 2.0 was more expensive yes. I bet Kevin Rose is kicking himself though. The Black one is nice. I would have bought that had it been available 2 months ago. Oh well... at least the only thing really upgraded was the processor. The HDD and video remains the same. And when the warranty runs out i will just get a new processor and install it myself. Hooray for intel (yes i fix macs so it would not be hard for me).

nagromme
May 16, 2006, 10:16 AM
I really like the glossy screen if there's nothing glaring behind you to reflect. Not sure which I'd choose, but the option is nice to have.

Here's hoping for a 13.3" MacBook Pro!

Or better yet, 10" MacBook Thin with a real GPU :) (Let me dream.)

jaydub
May 16, 2006, 10:17 AM
The timing on this couldn't be better -- I'm planning to get my MBP in the next couple weeks!

Non-shiny screen, of course.

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 10:23 AM
The original MBP's werent glossy screen right...?

eVolcre
May 16, 2006, 10:26 AM
My replacement 17" hadn't gone into production yet so I was able to change the screen to the glossy version. It works better for my needs ...

eV

longofest
May 16, 2006, 10:26 AM
Ok I now see a huge difference that graphics card on the MacBook is an Intel... Ehhhh... More $ to get the Nvidia.

You mean ATI... MacBook Pro's use ATI X1600

BugSitter
May 16, 2006, 10:28 AM
FYI, refurbished macbook pros have dropped $100 in price, now starting at $1599. Reason to go pro?

~Shard~
May 16, 2006, 10:29 AM
The original MBP's werent glossy screen right...?

That is correct.

Whether or not the glossy screen is "bad" is one thing, however I think the whole thing here is that Apple should have made it an option for the MacBook just as they have done for the MacBook Pro. Would that have been that hard to do?

dashiel
May 16, 2006, 10:36 AM
I know Apple has come up with "creative" ways of right-clicking. However, when you have a 55 year old millionaire who has finally learned how to use PowerPoint and Outlook, switching to a new computer is scary enough, without having to be told, "Okay, to right-click, you hold both fingers down and then click." Why does Apple insist on spending precious R&D money coming up with new ways of right clicking? How about putting a right mouse button and there and then everyone knows how to do it and you can go on to invent something else cool?

Thanks for pointing out the double-finger right-click, but, it's not acceptible for Apple to think that it's a replacement for a right mouse button.

it's not a replacement - apple has never had right click buttons on any of their devices. their implementation of dual mode input is really quite brilliant. learned behavior such as your 55 year-old millionaire doesn't mean it's better or it should be done. yes, it's a pain having to unlearn a poor, but comfortable convention, but such is the price of progress.

1) right-click is a secondary user interaction used far less than primary click.
2) it's an advanced level feature. a large majority of people don't use the right-click menu (watch a usability study and you'll see).

Spectrum
May 16, 2006, 10:39 AM
I really like the glossy screen if there's nothing glaring behind you to reflect. Not sure which I'd choose, but the option is nice to have.

Here's hoping for a 13.3" MacBook Pro!

Well - let's hope it still has the option of a non-glossy screen.

As Diatribe has been emphasising - glossy screens SUCK. What exactly do you like about it Nagromme?

My lab mate has a Dell with a glossy screeen, and most of the time it's impossible to view things on her screen when she shows me them - the background reflection of myself+the room is too distracting.

In comparison, my Powerbook screen looks less bright - but still ends up being far more USABLE.

And for those using a laptop in a dark room? Well, IMO, this is NOT good for your health. LCD's have too much contrast, causing eye strain. It is best to have the display at a similar brightness level to the environment around it - only possible if you don't have a glossy/reflective coating.

bbrosemer
May 16, 2006, 11:03 AM
You mean ATI... MacBook Pro's use ATI X1600

Sorry I mispoke entirely my fault. :( O yes and also please someone tell me if there MBP's have been arriving faster than the estimated delievery becasue i neeeeeeed mine before June 1st....

aristobrat
May 16, 2006, 11:05 AM
FYI, refurbished macbook pros have dropped $100 in price, now starting at $1599. Reason to go pro?
I wouldn't consider a 15" Pro until the heat and whine issues have been dealt with.

aristobrat
May 16, 2006, 11:06 AM
2) it's an advanced level feature. a large majority of people don't use the right-click menu (watch a usability study and you'll see).
That's always been my thought too.

Apple doesn't stuff a gazillion commands on the right-click menus.

Garissimo
May 16, 2006, 11:08 AM
The track pad does a right click... Put 2 fingers on the pad and click and it does a right click. It's quite cool actually.

Is this something new for the Macbook Pros?

I have the last generation G4 Powerbook (12") with OSX 10.4.6. Two finger scroll works, but not right click as you described.

Is there some setup operation that needs to be performed to get this to work?

HiroProtagonist
May 16, 2006, 11:11 AM
There is a PC here at work with a "glossy" screen, I can never see anything but myself, very useless :confused:

Wonder why you can't get the black in the low end model??

Spectrum
May 16, 2006, 11:13 AM
There is a PC here at work with a "glossy" screen, I can never see anything but myself, very useless :confused:
That's just because it's a PC ;)

ACW
May 16, 2006, 11:13 AM
Any saying the UK prices have gone you need to look again the MBP prices went DOWN and the spec went UP.

Also dont think Apple will swap your "old" MBP for new ones even when sent for repair. They dont do it with iPods they wont with Pro laptops.

netmonkey
May 16, 2006, 11:18 AM
2) it's an advanced level feature. a large majority of people don't use the right-click menu (watch a usability study and you'll see).

Oh man, though once they figure out how to use it it's just painful to watch. It's overused, really. People should just learn how to use the keyboard instead. It's faster, too.

bowzer
May 16, 2006, 11:28 AM
I wonder what kind of material the case is... ibook plastic again?

Edit > shoulda double checked before replying about the glossy :)

nylon
May 16, 2006, 11:31 AM
Uhh... what are you talking about. The default order option is a matte screen. You have the choice of glossy or normal.

I think on the regular Macbook (iBook replacement) there is no option. You get the glossy screen by default. Only on the MBP is there an option.

mkrishnan
May 16, 2006, 11:39 AM
Ok, My replacement MBP order was changed, but what actually got changed? lol, maybe a model without whine, with right click? what does "no Optional SW" mean in the top order?

I think it would've been a 2GHz model before, wouldn't it? Whereas now it will come with a 2.16GHz Core Duo? :)

Garissimo
May 16, 2006, 11:40 AM
You get the glossy screen by default. Only on the MBP is there an option.

Correct.

I think people should at least look at the glossy screen in real life before condemning it, too.

I find it hard to beleive Apple would make this screen standard on a high volume model without doing some real world useability testing (outdoors/bright light).

aristobrat
May 16, 2006, 11:41 AM
Is this something new for the Macbook Pros?

I have the last generation G4 Powerbook (12") with OSX 10.4.6. Two finger scroll works, but not right click as you described.

Is there some setup operation that needs to be performed to get this to work?
AFAIK, only the 17" MBP has this feature now. Never found it on my 15", although it'll undoubtably be added in some update in the near future. :)

devwild
May 16, 2006, 11:42 AM
Oh man, though once they figure out how to use it it's just painful to watch. It's overused, really. People should just learn how to use the keyboard instead. It's faster, too.
I would agree, at least partly, but keyboard accessibility is very poor and inconsistent on the mac, even with the extra options turned on. Whether using the mouse or keyboard on a powerbook/macbook, it's cluncky. The lack of real keys for page up/down doesn't help either.

I've used OSX since it came out and I have to say, the best accessory I have is my logitech mouse - left, right, middle, scroll, forward, back, and three expose functions, all without feeling cluncky or unstylish - if anything, OSX is able to take more advantage of multiple mouse buttons than windows. I never can find anything useful to map those other three buttons to on windows, but with expose it makes navigation wonderfully efficient.

Also, in firefox and safari I use middle click more than any other button, right click next most, and left click the least. Plus I am an active terminal/X user and middle click is paste. The apple laptops don't provide a clean solution for that. If there were just two buttons (and it's not like there isn't plenty of room), it would solve both problems, just like every laptop I have ever owned. Like the mighty mouse, it will happen, but jobs is one stubborn dude.

Spectrum
May 16, 2006, 11:43 AM
I think people should at least look at the glossy screen in real life before condemning it, too.

true...

I find it hard to beleive Apple would make this screen standard on a high volume model without doing some real world useability testing (outdoors/bright light).
but this is what almost every other PC laptop maker has done. GLOSSY sells units, whether they are ultimately useable or not, is another matter.

KREX725
May 16, 2006, 11:45 AM
I hope they don't bump the specs and lower prices every other week...:eek:

I guess we'll have to wait and see. This is new territory for Apple and us. I imagine it will be a hard line to balance: making customers feel like their investment is still current vs. pleasing those who demand higher performance NOW.

Just because Apple are speed bumping every 3 months doesn't mean that you machine won't still last 3 to 3.5 years from when it came out.

I think this may be one of the best statements made in this thread. I think we sometimes get so caught up in the next big thing that we forget how long we can actually use our Macs and get really good performance out of them.

I was just thinking the other day about how many years I hung on to an old Performa model from 1995 (which had received a top five worst Mac ever nod last week). If it weren't for me wanting to play games like COD at the best speeds possible, I'd probably still have my G4 MDD from 3-4 years ago.

MacBookDJ
May 16, 2006, 12:00 PM
OK, it is finally time to replace my Pismo.

Same here. :cool: My Pismo is 6 years old and still runs like a champ... I hope the MacBook comes close to the same longevity.

As for the MacBook Pro, it took every ounce of willpower I have not to order one. The only thing that saved me is the fact that most of my DJ and music apps aren't universal yet. Couldn't justify the cost without them being available.

cwoloszynski
May 16, 2006, 12:00 PM
dedicated video + bigger screen + backlit keyboard (although minor, it come out handy, using it right now)

Don't forget the 7200 RPM drive vs. the 5400 RPM drive.


The PRO is just that....

entropy1980
May 16, 2006, 12:03 PM
Don't forget the 7200 RPM drive vs. the 5400 RPM drive.


The PRO is just that....
And don't forget the Express Card slot, FW800, and extra USB port. :)

assscat
May 16, 2006, 12:04 PM
Not happy that I've only had my MBP17 for 5 days and already the price has been dropped by £100... :mad:

Ditto – I ordered mine the day after they were announced. Because of problems with the first 17" MBP Apple sent me and I am sending back, with the replacement not arriving yet, means that I am £100 worse off withou having had a day's computing with my MBP! Bad Apple!

law guy
May 16, 2006, 12:13 PM
Reading this. I think I prefer the standard (not glossy) screen.:cool:

Yes - the glossy does seem to be an interesting concept (deeper blacks for movies and games they say), but given that anti-glare screens exist for a reason (glare) I'd go that route for more versitility when (one day years in the future) I update my 15" G4 anti-glare PB.

milo
May 16, 2006, 12:15 PM
but still no FW800 or DL DVD burner support on the 15"

That's because a 9mm DL drive doesn't exist yet.

People who think they are going to play games on this are very wrong.

You mean people who think they are going to play high end 3d games. Casual games will run fine.

Ditto – I ordered mine the day after they were announced. Because of problems with the first 17" MBP Apple sent me and I am sending back, with the replacement not arriving yet, means that I am £100 worse off withou having had a day's computing with my MBP! Bad Apple!

They do have price protection, it's something like 10 or 14 days. You should contact them and ask about it, especially if you had a DOA machine.

DimFlicker
May 16, 2006, 12:16 PM
Guys, I'm telling you the glossy screens are not that bad and the pros are better than the cons. If your sitting in front of it, and its a laptop for its likely you will be the glare isn't that bad. And it does WONDERS for photos, games, and movies.. WONDERS.

qtip919
May 16, 2006, 12:24 PM
And don't forget the Express Card slot, FW800, and extra USB port. :)

Digital audio out as well...

the backlight keyboard is one of my favorite features period...

belovedmonster
May 16, 2006, 12:27 PM
It's nice to see that Apple is stepping up the pace with respect to its updates now that they are an Intel shop. Hopefully we will continue to see frequent speed bumps, etc. like this. To compete with the likes of Dell, etc., Apple pretty much has to - updates every 6 months simply doesn't cut it anymore. :cool:

I think this update today is more to do with Apple needing to keep their Pro machines better than the consumer machines. I expect we will see the Macbook Pros updating fairly often until there is some clear space between them and the lower Macbooks. I certainly wouldnt expect the new Macbooks to update anytime soon...not at the rate the Pros do anyway....

dpaanlka
May 16, 2006, 12:30 PM
I am so pissed off right now. I was really counting on this thing to be my future computer that was powerful and I could afford.

GLOSSY SCREEN?????

I will never buy this product.

mkrishnan
May 16, 2006, 12:31 PM
Nevermind...:o

No, I think you were right... it says optical digital + analog for both in and out, doesn't it? In fact, I can re-use this picture. :D (EDIT: Line in, but not Line out -- it's still headphone out only, apparently...)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/mkrishnan/webcache/Macbook-mic.jpg

It seems that this combo mini-jack is another standard that Apple is trying to push, as a lot of Apple devices have had this, since it started appearing on the Airport Express (I think that was the first application?). Nice. :)

iSee
May 16, 2006, 12:33 PM
I know Apple has come up with "creative" ways of right-clicking. However, when you have a 55 year old millionaire who has finally learned how to use PowerPoint and Outlook, switching to a new computer is scary enough, without having to be told, "Okay, to right-click, you hold both fingers down and then click." Why does Apple insist on spending precious R&D money coming up with new ways of right clicking? How about putting a right mouse button and there and then everyone knows how to do it and you can go on to invent something else cool?

Thanks for pointing out the double-finger right-click, but, it's not acceptible for Apple to think that it's a replacement for a right mouse button.

Your 55 year old millionaire was going to have to get used to a lot more than a different way of right-clicking. (You can also hold down the control key as you click). It's just as well he stick with his old computers. Don't upgrade him to Vista, though :D

macbookAPRIL1
May 16, 2006, 12:41 PM
So here I am, along with many others, in the situation where I have bought my 1.83 MBP and am getting a bit of a buzz kill with price drops and the new lineup etc. My question is what can I do about this ??? Is there a way to upgrade my MBP to a 2.0 or 2.16 ??? I don't want to post a complaint but I feel like Apple owes some of their customers who paid huge premiums for their MBP. Anyone else in this boat???

dpaanlka
May 16, 2006, 12:44 PM
I know Apple has come up with "creative" ways of right-clicking. However, when you have a 55 year old millionaire who has finally learned how to use PowerPoint and Outlook, switching to a new computer is scary enough, without having to be told, "Okay, to right-click, you hold both fingers down and then click." Why does Apple insist on spending precious R&D money coming up with new ways of right clicking? How about putting a right mouse button and there and then everyone knows how to do it and you can go on to invent something else cool?

Thanks for pointing out the double-finger right-click, but, it's not acceptible for Apple to think that it's a replacement for a right mouse button.

I think Apple has done more than their share of implementing a right click into Mac OS. Remember, back in the day, there wasnt even anything to right click on.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe some people who have been using Macs for years don't want a right click button? I'm talking about as far back as the System 6 and 7 days. On my Mighty Mouse, right clicking is disabled, and I am glad to see that it is disabled by default. Although getting Windows converts is a priority, long time Mac users are still more important. It has always been an Apple tradition to not have a right click button. So stop complaining about how much you wish Macs were like PCs (so you would be as comfortable as possible) and take four minutes out of your life practicing how to right click with two fingers on the trackpad, or by holding down control, and learn to appreciate elegance (and 23 year tradition) of having only one mouse button.

dbassett
May 16, 2006, 12:48 PM
I have to commend Apple for another round bumps with no charge. I do however feel for those who have already purchased MacBook Pros.

Why? The only bump I see is the glossy screen which probably has more chance for glare. At least for the 17" anyway.

neutrino23
May 16, 2006, 12:54 PM
Not a problem. Just remember to wear a jacket whenever you take your computer out, and you can drape it across your head and the screen while you work!

I spent quite a bit of time with the 17" MBP at the Apple store yesterday and didn't notice any glare or reflections.

milo
May 16, 2006, 12:54 PM
Digital audio out as well...

Nope. The MB has digital audio in and out.

I spent quite a bit of time with the 17" MBP at the Apple store yesterday and didn't notice any glare or reflections.

That's because you were looking at the matte screen. The glossy screen was just released today.

rt_brained
May 16, 2006, 12:56 PM
Any live MB photos available? I assume the black is glossy, like previous white models and iPods however, the MB's on Apple's website appear more satin. Clearly, this would be 1) due to soft box or tent lighting or, 2) the "photos" and QTVTR were 3D-rendered, rather than actual photos.

Comments?

A satin exterior might look cool, but would be out of place with the existing roadmap.

SiliconAddict
May 16, 2006, 12:57 PM
My MBP is obselete already :( I'm really intrigued by those Black MacBooks this thing might go on eBay soon once i read some reviews!

I really wish people would stop treating the word obsolete like its some Mac swear. :rolleyes: The only reason people care about if their wares are obsolete this soon after launch is if they have some sort of inferiority complex where they need to be special by having the latest thing on the block. The MBP does what it did yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that. It’s no slower today then it was yesterday. When they come out with the Core 2 Duo it will still be as fast as the day you purchased it. Nothing changed other then bragging rights and I don't know about you guys but I don't buy a computer, car, or anything else for bragging rights.

Sorry berkleeboy I wasn’t focusing on you specifically. Just the general sentiment in general that goes around when something newer comes out.

retroz311
May 16, 2006, 12:59 PM
So here I am, along with many others, in the situation where I have bought my 1.83 MBP and am getting a bit of a buzz kill with price drops and the new lineup etc. My question is what can I do about this ??? Is there a way to upgrade my MBP to a 2.0 or 2.16 ??? I don't want to post a complaint but I feel like Apple owes some of their customers who paid huge premiums for their MBP. Anyone else in this boat???

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Well Apple did the unthinkable - - they dropped their prices on their current line of production. This is a trend that MAC users MUST get used to, and it's a good thing - this is why PC users wait as they know there will be price drops with new processors, expect more price drops when Intel comes out with newer chips in June! :o

There was no way they could keep the MBP at the same price, it was un-feasable and stay competitive!

With hackers using a generic Intel motherboard with intergrated GMA950 (intel) and running final cut (seeing how it has Quartz Extreme) for a few hundered dollars, expect APPLE to reduce prices even more down the road which will turn into savings for users plus expand the user base.

The macbook will eventially become the MBP with FW800, backlit keyboard, etc at a low price point and the MBP will become the dual/quad core laptops and newer CPU's from Intel and perhaps AMD.

People are building mac systems from scratch and getting them to work, so apple is responding - if they gain some market share, only a matter of time (when they reach 20~30 % someday, which will come true when .exe files can run inside of OSX), then the OS will be released to the massses.

:-)

neutrino23
May 16, 2006, 01:04 PM
2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button.....

Apple...when are you going to put a second mouse button on your laptops? You're shipping Mighty Mouse with computers, why not put something like that on the trackpad? If you are going to promote that you can run Windows natively, you can keep your stubborn, head-up-your-anus philosophy and not include a second mouse button.

One of our main clients was ready to switch everything over to MacBook Pros last month. They bought one to test it out and one of their biggest compaints was the lack of a second mouse button. They've decided to hold of and stick with ThinkPads. I don't know when they will give Apple another try now.

I use a windows laptop occaisionally and I have to say that one of the things I hate most about it is that damned second button. I often find myself repeatedly clicking on something with no result then I look down and see that my thumb happens to be slightly off center and clicking on the right clicker instead of the left clicker. I much prefer the single button approach that Apple takes.

retroz311
May 16, 2006, 01:08 PM
Notice on this screen?

http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

errr, page, ...

can you expand your viewing or is this just mirroring?

If split screen then isn't this a much better upgrade than a mini seeing how it's portable - - also, what are the difference vs. the mini? I see they are still using intel graphics so....what else differenciates the two? mini vs macbook?

dpaanlka
May 16, 2006, 01:10 PM
Notice on this screen?

http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html

LOL its funny that Apple put that split "demonstration" of how the glossy compares to matte... because thats how a glossy LCD looks in real life, all kinds of glare and shadows and crazy reflections!

mkrishnan
May 16, 2006, 01:11 PM
can you expand your viewing or is this just mirroring?

Expand (span). The external screen can have resolution up to 1920x1200, while the internal shows a separate 1280x800 image.

It's on the specs page. Don't need a hack anymore. Also, Apple officially supports clamshell mode (having the MacBook closed and still on), which was not supported on the iBooks.

fowler.
May 16, 2006, 01:12 PM
I'm sure it's been posted already, but if you've purchased a MacBook Pro or whatever in the past 10 days, you're entitled to a refund of the difference.

I purchased mine 13 days ago and have a refund waiting for me on my credit card.

dbassett
May 16, 2006, 01:17 PM
Just so you same obsoletous don't come complaining in August about your MBP now, Intel is releasing the merom chip late july early august for MBP.

I don't understand, if you read macrumors and have followed Apple for the past 2-3 years, you should have known about this I've been waiting since March for this.

Here is a rule of thumb: Never buy 1st Generation anything!
I learned this back in 1994 when the 7100/66 ppc came out. Within a month they came out with the 7100/88, 8100 and 9500

Anyway apple will be making silent small modifications to MBP for the next month or so without announcing it. MBPa, MBPb, MBPc...
If you don't like your decision, go get a gateway! then you'll have something to complain about.

retroz311
May 16, 2006, 01:18 PM
Expand (span). The external screen can have resolution up to 1920x1200, while the internal shows a separate 1280x800 image.

It's on the specs page. Don't need a hack anymore. Also, Apple officially supports clamshell mode (having the MacBook closed and still on), which was not supported on the iBooks.


Cool, but how would you use the keyboard? USB attached to macbook?

Wondering if it's strong enough for final cut??? Or does this need ATI cards?


If not, then why pay the extra $1000 for the GPU? :rolleyes:

BWhaler
May 16, 2006, 01:30 PM
The 15'' MBP is pretty much obselete right now and I could not see anyone paying the money for that computer.

Oh, for the love of God:

1. It has a 15" Screen

2. It has dedicated graphics with 256MB of dedicated memory. This makes an enormous difference

3. It has dual link and can drive bigger displays in more modes.

4. Express/34 slot

5. Higher resolution

6. Backlit keyboard

etc, etc, etc

Obsolete? Yeah, you know what you're talking about.

astral
May 16, 2006, 01:31 PM
I'm sure it's been posted already, but if you've purchased a MacBook Pro or whatever in the past 10 days, you're entitled to a refund of the difference.

I purchased mine 13 days ago and have a refund waiting for me on my credit card.

Does this also apply to Refurbs? And is it date shipped or date received?

(I'm perfectly sassified with my MBP and the price I paid for it, but free 100 dollars? of course!)

Garissimo
May 16, 2006, 01:34 PM
One other question: Does the speed bump on the 15" model constitute a new revision or is it still considered a "Rev. A"?

erikamsterdam
May 16, 2006, 01:38 PM
Just got a new MBP 15"
No whine, and the heat is not that bad either. Only above the keys it gets warm really.
And yes, just 1.83 Ghz. But I don't think your really notice that 170 Mhz unless you render your ass off.

milatchi
May 16, 2006, 01:42 PM
Not that significant a change, but still noteworthy.

AvSRoCkCO1067
May 16, 2006, 01:42 PM
I spent quite a bit of time with the 17" MBP at the Apple store yesterday and didn't notice any glare or reflections.

I was there today. The glare was there. And it was terrible. I couldn't read a thing - next to the non-glare 15" MacBook Pro, it was a joke.

Nonetheless - if you're not outside or near a window, the glossy screens are undeniably better. Some people like them for airplanes as well, as the person sitting next to you can't see what you're doing (on the other hand, if you want the person next to you to see what you're doing...opt for the matte screen)

jaydub
May 16, 2006, 01:43 PM
I'm curious whether these MBP's with the speed bump will be old stock. For example, if I bought a 2.16 today, would it be an old machine?

If it is newly manufactured, Apple may have addressed the thermal paste issue.

rxse7en
May 16, 2006, 01:44 PM
Just popping in to say, I want my 17" MBP Core 2 Duo in BLACK, please.

BTW:
http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2006May/bch20060516036269.htm

B

AvSRoCkCO1067
May 16, 2006, 01:44 PM
Oh, for the love of God:

1. It has a 15" Screen

2. It has dedicated graphics with 256MB of dedicated memory. This makes an enormous difference

3. It has dual link and can drive bigger displays in more modes.

4. Express/34 slot

5. Higher resolution

6. Backlit keyboard

etc, etc, etc

Obsolete? Yeah, you know what you're talking about.

Plus, it's just built better. I loved my iBook G4 - taking it with me everywhere was easy, as it was light and the plastic was durable. But the aluminum of the MacBook Pro is vastly superior - they keyboard is a delight to use, and every time I return to my iBook it just feels cheap.

rt_brained
May 16, 2006, 01:44 PM
So here I am, along with many others, in the situation where I have bought my 1.83 MBP and am getting a bit of a buzz kill with price drops and the new lineup etc. My question is what can I do about this ??? Is there a way to upgrade my MBP to a 2.0 or 2.16 ??? I don't want to post a complaint but I feel like Apple owes some of their customers who paid huge premiums for their MBP. Anyone else in this boat???
Christ, perhaps you'd feel better if Apple just sat on the technology for a year or so before upgrading just to keep people like you happy. And if you place an order 2 or 3 months before Apple plans to launch upgraded machines, perhaps the salespeople should warn you not to buy yet.

Is this what you would do if you owned a business? Call all of your customers from the last couple months and encourage them to return their computers so you could replace them with a faster one and eat the cost of the used model they returned? Is that exactly how you'd run your business? Into the ground?

Even though you'd never even notice a performance difference between 1.86 and 2.0 GHz, you feel slighted because you "lost money". Welcome to the world of technology. This Intel platform change is new to all of us. And with a whole slew of Apple models in line for the change over the coming months, one should expect to see mild speed bumps and model tweaks along the way.

Caveat Emptor.

morespce54
May 16, 2006, 01:46 PM
Wonder why you can't get the black in the low end model??

because black is sooooo much faster... ;) :D :D

mkrishnan
May 16, 2006, 01:46 PM
Cool, but how would you use the keyboard? USB attached to macbook?

Wondering if it's strong enough for final cut??? Or does this need ATI cards?

With respect to the keyboard... in the screen spanning mode (use both screens), the computer is of course open, and you can use the internal keyboard. In the clamshell (use only external screen) mode, you must use either an external keyboard and mouse (USB or Bluetooth).

Heh...somehow I think that graphics intensive stuff like that will not be pretty on this. But who knows? Aperture apparently is not unusable on the GMA950 Mac Minis. And this should be somewhat faster than them.

retroz311
May 16, 2006, 01:52 PM
With respect to the keyboard... in the screen spanning mode (use both screens), the computer is of course open, and you can use the internal keyboard. In the clamshell (use only external screen) mode, you must use either an external keyboard and mouse (USB or Bluetooth).

Heh...somehow I think that graphics intensive stuff like that will not be pretty on this. But who knows? Aperture apparently is not unusable on the GMA950 Mac Minis. And this should be somewhat faster than them.

Just realized something, if GMA is BAD for 3d, then Motion, Titles, and Swift 3D is out - -I suppose you have to pay the $1000 for a $30 GPU, aluminum and larger LCD. :)

rt_brained
May 16, 2006, 01:58 PM
LOL its funny that Apple put that split "demonstration" of how the glossy compares to matte... because thats how a glossy LCD looks in real life, all kinds of glare and shadows and crazy reflections!
Funny, I thought it was a representation of the glossy for that reason.

JGowan
May 16, 2006, 01:59 PM
I have to commend Apple for another round bumps with no charge. I do however feel for those who have already purchased MacBook Pros.And you just KNOW that Apple knew that they would offer more on the Pro line the moment the low tier came out. Of course, you gotta hold back on stuff to keep people buying when you can add it in.

61132
May 16, 2006, 02:00 PM
Just talked to apple, supposedly the 15 inchers have right click support now too!

bordenkecher
May 16, 2006, 02:06 PM
haven't heard of this

all the HP's have them, it looks really nice, although i think youre prone ot more glare, but it makes your comp. look that much better, i kinda wish i had one on my MBP, i wonder if i can get them to install one on mine?

ChrisA
May 16, 2006, 02:11 PM
dedicated video + ...)

They both have a dedicated video processor. The difference is if the video RAM is shared or not. If it's shared then both the video processor AND the CPU have to go over the same buss to access RAM. Video processor need to access RAM a lot and repetivily so there is some contention for the bus. Off setting this is the Core Dual's very large L2 cache which should keep the CPU(s) from needing to get to RAM.

System RAM also is slower than typical video RAM and there is less of it. So I'd expect the Macboks to preform video related takes like 3D games slower then a MBP but other takese
like video trans coding and applying a Photoshop filter would be the same

bordenkecher
May 16, 2006, 02:13 PM
Just talked to apple, supposedly the 15 inchers have right click support now too!
what?


also, is it still possible to upgrade the MBP yourself from 2.ghz to 2.14, i though i read somewhere that you could by replacing the chip or something

fowler.
May 16, 2006, 02:20 PM
Does this also apply to Refurbs? And is it date shipped or date received?

(I'm perfectly sassified with my MBP and the price I paid for it, but free 100 dollars? of course!)

it does, as mine is a refurb.

tip
May 16, 2006, 02:21 PM
also, is it still possible to upgrade the MBP yourself from 2.ghz to 2.14, i though i read somewhere that you could by replacing the chip or something

This was on the Minis, since they're socketed (and could theoretically be upgraded to Merom). The MBP's are soldered, hence you cannot. I wonder about the MB's, though ....

Anyway, this is why I wish Apple offered upgrades, since it's just a simple chip switch, even to Merom.

slffl
May 16, 2006, 02:24 PM
2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button.....

Apple...when are you going to put a second mouse button on your laptops? You're shipping Mighty Mouse with computers, why not put something like that on the trackpad? If you are going to promote that you can run Windows natively, you can keep your stubborn, head-up-your-anus philosophy and not include a second mouse button.

One of our main clients was ready to switch everything over to MacBook Pros last month. They bought one to test it out and one of their biggest compaints was the lack of a second mouse button. They've decided to hold of and stick with ThinkPads. I don't know when they will give Apple another try now.

I would advise them to stick with PC laptops. If they are using windows only then they dont need a macbook. And I don't want a 2nd mouse button on my laptop!

How about we just put 6 mouse buttons on these?

originalknappst
May 16, 2006, 02:26 PM
One other question: Does the speed bump on the 15" model constitute a new revision or is it still considered a "Rev. A"?

I'd like to know this too. .. is this Rev. B?

THX1139
May 16, 2006, 02:36 PM
I have to commend Apple for another round bumps with no charge. I do however feel for those who have already purchased MacBook Pros.

Not me. Those who chose to be early adopters knew the risks for being impatient. You can't buy the first round of computers, and then complain later that the latest machines are faster/better. There are always going to be faster/better machines AND disappointed people who can't wait.

With Apple's new product line, you can expect faster updates; so people better get used to it. Imagine what the complete product line is going to look like a year from now, when we are in 3rd or even 4th revision! All currently selling machines are going to seem like "old technology". I suppose that's Apple's plan to increase revenues. People are going to buy more often; and that means ebay is going to need a special section for all of the used Apple computers that's going to be flooding the market. I just finished reading a post from a guy who's thinking about selling his 3 week old MBP to buy one of the new MacBooks!

QPlot
May 16, 2006, 02:41 PM
I know Apple has come up with "creative" ways of right-clicking. However, when you have a 55 year old millionaire who has finally learned how to use PowerPoint and Outlook, switching to a new computer is scary enough, without having to be told, "Okay, to right-click, you hold both fingers down and then click." Why does Apple insist on spending precious R&D money coming up with new ways of right clicking? How about putting a right mouse button and there and then everyone knows how to do it and you can go on to invent something else cool?

Thanks for pointing out the double-finger right-click, but, it's not acceptible for Apple to think that it's a replacement for a right mouse button.

true, very true, but I am getting used to it after couple of month, weird; But I still insist they shouldn't come up with this at the first place. What a waste anyway. Instead, they should lower the price just because they're forcing us to use it. Same thing as tv ads, comcast should pay me to watch ads everyday, such a crime and time wasted. LOL

tehdee
May 16, 2006, 02:42 PM
got my MBP (1.8) yesterday. paid 2099 CDN with the education discount. today i phoned in, told them i felt a bit slighted at the price drop being announced today, and they refunded me TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS CANADIAN. pretty decent trade-off, as .17 mhz isn't exactly going to make me lose sleep.

edit: just hung up the phone (first post while on hold)... $230 CDN is what they are refunding my credit card. and i asked if there were any other REVISIONS made, and the apple store rep informed me that it was STRICTLY a speed bump and a price drop, no other revisions (ie; mobo, etc...) [phewf]

DTphonehome
May 16, 2006, 02:55 PM
I'd like to know this too. .. is this Rev. B?

Since nothing has changed besides the speed and the (optional) screen, I would say no. Usually new "revisions" have a faster bus, faster RAM, new ports, etc. Those things point to motherboard revisions. This isn't anything like that. Unless, of course, Apple has been doing silent revisions all along to address the 15" MBP problems. In that case, who knows what revision we are up to.

mkrishnan
May 16, 2006, 02:59 PM
Just realized something, if GMA is BAD for 3d, then Motion, Titles, and Swift 3D is out - -I suppose you have to pay the $1000 for a $30 GPU, aluminum and larger LCD. :)

Yeah... I think if that's your usage profile, the MBP 17" would be a really good investment.

Eniregnat
May 16, 2006, 03:12 PM
A glossy screen can be so distracting. It seems crisper, but why would I increase glare.

tiramisu
May 16, 2006, 03:15 PM
Just so you same obsoletous don't come complaining in August about your MBP now, Intel is releasing the merom chip late july early august for MBP.


guys, what do you all think? will apple use merom july/august directly or will we have wait some weeks/months longer cause of e.g. mainboard modification? :rolleyes:

Demon Hunter
May 16, 2006, 03:18 PM
A glossy screen can be so distracting. It seems crisper, but why would I increase glare.

Yeah, what's so good about glossy? It makes the colors look super bright and vivid in the dark, yes?

Kingsly
May 16, 2006, 03:20 PM
hmmm... sent it in to get the logic board looked at (heat and whine issues) hopefully they'll just drop in a new one w/ the 2.0! :D

Is that even within the realm of possibility?

spaced
May 16, 2006, 03:26 PM
hmmm... sent it in to get the logic board looked at (heat and whine issues) hopefully they'll just drop in a new one w/ the 2.0! :D

Is that even within the realm of possibility?

Yes, it is, if they are out of stock on the matching replacement part. It's happened to me before.

iMeowbot
May 16, 2006, 03:30 PM
I'd like to know this too. .. is this Rev. B?
A lot of that "rev" stuff is just something that people make up anyway. The ordering part numbers are still the same, so they're not treating these as separate products.

There have already been revisions to the boards inside, so take "rev" to mean whatever you like.

Demon Hunter
May 16, 2006, 03:37 PM
A lot of that "rev" stuff is just something that people make up anyway. The ordering part numbers are still the same, so they're not treating these as separate products.

There have already been revisions to the boards inside, so take "rev" to mean whatever you like.

That's true. There are many models which don't quite fit the "Rev" definition (just see EveryMac (http://www.everymac.com)), but it does constitute a change in the list.

solaris
May 16, 2006, 03:42 PM
but still no FW800 or DL DVD burner support on the 15"Ditto!
Hopefully Apple add this to the next revision.

gunm
May 16, 2006, 03:45 PM
yay for the new macbook! Too bad getting a black one means paying a premium. I was wrong in my predictions for specs--those who said the thing would be a Mac Mini with a screen were closer to the truth.

Kingsly
May 16, 2006, 03:49 PM
Yes, it is, if they are out of stock on the matching replacement part. It's happened to me before.
"please god, please god, please steve!"

ender78
May 16, 2006, 03:56 PM
I have to commend Apple for another round bumps with no charge. I do however feel for those who have already purchased MacBook Pros.


I have spent over three months playing with my machine. The extra .16 GHz is not a huge difference. I go on vacation in 7 days, could not be doing that without my MBP as I want to take tons of pictures. Those of us that did not wait had tons of fun with our machines. Minor speed and price changes, nothing warranting crying.

Demon Hunter
May 16, 2006, 03:58 PM
yay for the new macbook! Too bad getting a black one means paying a premium. I was wrong in my predictions for specs--those who said the thing would be a Mac Mini with a screen were closer to the truth.

Not really, all the laptops are much faster, except for GMA 950.

I actually like the black "premium"... it's a tribute to the 12" PB users.

ender78, you are right, this is such a trivial update it's hardly worth mentioning.

Kingsly
May 16, 2006, 04:08 PM
"please god, please god, please steve!"
... that either the Applecare guy is really nice, or DHL drops my MBP, killing it and forcing an upgrade. :rolleyes:

corywoolf
May 16, 2006, 04:12 PM
my 2.0 was more expensive yes. I bet Kevin Rose is kicking himself though. The Black one is nice. I would have bought that had it been available 2 months ago. Oh well... at least the only thing really upgraded was the processor. The HDD and video remains the same. And when the warranty runs out i will just get a new processor and install it myself. Hooray for intel (yes i fix macs so it would not be hard for me).

MBP Processors can't be upgraded because they are soldered. :cool:

heisetax
May 16, 2006, 04:16 PM
I think Apple has done more than their share of implementing a right click into Mac OS. Remember, back in the day, there wasnt even anything to right click on.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe some people who have been using Macs for years don't want a right click button? I'm talking about as far back as the System 6 and 7 days. On my Mighty Mouse, right clicking is disabled, and I am glad to see that it is disabled by default. Although getting Windows converts is a priority, long time Mac users are still more important. It has always been an Apple tradition to not have a right click button. So stop complaining about how much you wish Macs were like PCs (so you would be as comfortable as possible) and take four minutes out of your life practicing how to right click with two fingers on the trackpad, or by holding down control, and learn to appreciate elegance (and 23 year tradition) of having only one mouse button.


I've used a muti-button Kesington trackball for years. My current one is a 4-button Expert Mouse with a scroll ring. The 4 general things that I have set up is: click, click and hold, right click, & menu of running programs for fast switching. I've had a Mac since one of the first Mac 128's, just a little before System 6 or 7 as you say.

The whole point to me is that each of us can & should be able to make up our own mind & use whatever it is to help us use our Mac in a way that makes better use to us. To you that menas KeepItSimpleStupid. For others it means use the keyboard only, others some combination with many of those others using a multi-button mouse or track-ball.

Because I use a 4-button track ball does that make me right & you wrong. Or does your using a 1-button Mac mouse right & me wrong. To me the answer to both is the same. Neither is wrong because we are Mac User's & we think different. That also means that we are more apt to think different than each other than Windows Users are. They must right click to do many thngs. We have a choice. We can do it whichever way we like. I change the way I operate my Mac depending on the time of day, program I'm running, how I feel at the time, or just to see if I can do it a different way.

Just because we use a computer doesn't mean everything has to be the same. Even for ourselves. Try it you may like it. At least you'll be learning to do thingsdiferently & maybe you'll find one that yu like better than what you do now. Maybe even one or two may involve some action that you thought was a no-good useless action.

Bill the TaxMan

celebrian23
May 16, 2006, 04:46 PM
I'm incredibly pumped. 2.0ghz? YES my friends YES! :p :p :p
Man, I cannot wait until the 30th of this month when I can pick up my mbp! This has made my day go from bad to excellent :p :p.! :p Though I'm disappoiinted that gloss is even an optionn. Ugh. This is why I hate pc laptops :eek: The backlight thing is really important to me, so now I don't have to sit and have regrets about mbp or mb! :p :p

matticus008
May 16, 2006, 04:52 PM
Ditto!
Hopefully Apple add this to the next revision.
Firewire, sure. But dual layer burning isn't under Apple's control. They (optical drive manufacturers) did not, and as far as I know still do not, offer a dual layer drive in the necessary dimensions for the MBP.

Mitch1984
May 16, 2006, 04:54 PM
Does anyone think the 17 Inch MBP will get the upcoming 2.33ghz Core Duo chip that is out sooon before they all go Merom?

Eniregnat
May 16, 2006, 04:55 PM
2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button...2nd mouse button.....

Apple...when are you going to put a second mouse button on your laptops? You're shipping Mighty Mouse with computers, why not put something like that on the trackpad? If you are going to promote that you can run Windows natively, you can keep your stubborn, head-up-your-anus philosophy and not include a second mouse button.

One of our main clients was ready to switch everything over to MacBook Pros last month. They bought one to test it out and one of their biggest compaints was the lack of a second mouse button. They've decided to hold of and stick with ThinkPads. I don't know when they will give Apple another try now.

I am torn on this one. All of the pro-apps and generally most people use the context (left mouse button). For me the 2 fingers on the mouse pad for context click works well.

The paradigm is something Apple instills in its designers. One mouse button is supposed to force them (remind them) not to think like everyone else. As a person who has to work with PCs at work and PCs and Macs at school and at home, I don't notice the lack of a second button. I just kind of switch automatically. What tends to bother me is the difference between the use of the control and Apple key. From time to time I don't hit Apple +C and accidentally hit ctrl+C, or v.v.s.)

This all said, Shake and FCP go much quicker with a 2+ button mouse. But when I bought the FCP suite, I also purchased a M$ mouse, so Apple looses and M$ wins. Though, for almost all other applications I use the track pad with gestures enabled.

crimsoncircles
May 16, 2006, 04:59 PM
The only people who can call their mac laptop obsolete now, are the ibook and powerbook users. Those trying to get faster mbp and $ refunds, goodluck to you, but it's just a fact of life computers upgrade often.

I'm happy with my Powerbook 12''. The guy at the store said I would be happy with it, it would last and have no problems, which is exactly the reason why I made the switch and went for my first Mac.

I feel sorry for those who just couldn't hold their credit cards or wallets still and decided to get the first Rev of MBP, or indeed MB. I was thinking of waiting until now, but was no way I was getting rev a after what i've heard about them, plus Powerbook has been proven that it will last ages without problems so why toy with fact

bimboles
May 16, 2006, 05:01 PM
Well I just took my 6th MBP back today on the 14th day when I heard about the upgrades. The main reason for this was I assumed that the newer MBP's would not have the issues also I wanted to get a refund as the top model was now £80 cheaper.

Well what a fun time I had. They agreed that my machine should be replaced because it had the whine and the mooing problem. They allowed me to upgrade to the 2.16 from 2.00 and they refunded the price difference. They also allowed me to upgrade to the 7200 HDD at no extra cost and the assured me that the new machine was from the very latest batch (although I'm not sure I believe this). Because I have already been stung with dead pixels, scratched cases and flickering screens, I choose to unbox in the store before taking it home, when I did this i opened it up and took a good look only to find that the left shift key came off in my hand. The guy behind the counter was as bemused as me. He called his manager over and explained what had happened and that I would now be on my 8th laptop, he suggested that if i wanted to try another machine I should be eligable for a 10% discount. I have taken the discount and walked away with a £1780 laptop for £1400 (including educational discount). Unfortunately I think this machine still has the whining issue but I am very happy with the upgrade and the cash injection.

Even though I am extremely annoyed with the terrible build quality, I cannot fault the London Regent Street Stores staff. They have always been very helpful.

Mitch1984
May 16, 2006, 05:03 PM
guys, what do you all think? will apple use merom july/august directly or will we have wait some weeks/months longer cause of e.g. mainboard modification? :rolleyes:

I think they will because Apple released Core Duo Mac's a day after the Core Duo was released (I think).
My guess is that Intel give Apple about a dozen chips before they even come out to help Apple design their new machines.

sainteven
May 16, 2006, 05:11 PM
I'm going to be graduating (from highschool) in a little over a week. Aside from that event, my 18th birthday is also this Friday. For the past few months, I've been shopping around for laptops as my graduation/birthday gift. I've always wanted a Mac, so apple.com has been my primary realm of shopping.

I'm a musician, writer, photographer, and lover of all sorts of media. I've been patiently waiting for the MacBook to be released, and alas, here it is. Despite my initial excitement about it's release, I was a bit concerned with the "glossy" screen (as I've noticed a bunch of other people have as well).

I read something earlier today saying that Apple wasn't overly concerned with the glare problem because 1) Most design professionals would be purchasing the MBP and 2) Something about the MacBook giving off more light (or something) and so it wouldn't be as bad.

I didn't fully understand it. My question is this: Should I still plan on going with the MacBook? I don't want to buy something that will be a pain in the butt to use, but Macs have beat out the competition in my mind in terms of creative media.

Any advice would be warmly appreciated.

crimsoncircles
May 16, 2006, 05:32 PM
1 whatever you do, don't get first rev of anything
2 if you're concerned about glare, i would just suggest waiting (edit: until you've heard from other uses of MB and their responses)
3 if you went a powerbook in my opinion, it would take care of your needs with what you are doing, and you could probably pick up a bargain from an apple store soon enough (maybe not, i don't know, but i got mine cheaper when the 15'' and 17'' PBs upgraded)

macEfan
May 16, 2006, 05:39 PM
good, speed bumps rock.. I bet apple introcuded it quitely so people who bought eariler macbook pro's wont get mad at them...

riversky
May 16, 2006, 05:49 PM
Remember even before the MacBook Pro was released they upgraded the processor options to include the 2.16ghz.

Now that Apple is in the Intel camp the upgrade cycles on components (perhaps not enclosures) are going to get FAR shorter. We Apple users must face the fact that our machines won't be the models that will stick around for 9 months. They will be gone every quarter.

The MacBook Pro's will get all new processors in late summer when the 64bit enable Duos come out that are faster and use less power.

The MacBooks will probably get a bumps as well.

This is good news for Apple but means that our machines will be much less powerful than Apple's latest far, far faster.

zync
May 16, 2006, 06:15 PM
That's ashame it doesn't work anymore. How bout you return it? Black is better.

I'm sorry but I'm tired of people saying that items are only obsolete when broken. From the internal dictionary of OS X:

ob-so-lete
adjective
1. no longer produced or used; out of date
verb
cause (a product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing it with something new

So yes, it could still be obsolete even if it's working! It is no longer produced because it has been replaced by a new product. It is obsolete. Think before you speak.

aristobrat
May 16, 2006, 06:31 PM
If the only thing you can find to support your position is the freaking dictionary, you might want to think twice before asking people to think before they speak. :rolleyes: :D

astral
May 16, 2006, 06:43 PM
I'm sure it's been posted already, but if you've purchased a MacBook Pro or whatever in the past 10 days, you're entitled to a refund of the difference.

I purchased mine 13 days ago and have a refund waiting for me on my credit card.

Drat. shipped May 4. Oh well, no free money for me...:(

MacIllustrator
May 16, 2006, 06:43 PM
I'm going to be graduating (from highschool) in a little over a week. Aside from that event, my 18th birthday is also this Friday. For the past few months, I've been shopping around for laptops as my graduation/birthday gift. I've always wanted a Mac, so apple.com has been my primary realm of shopping.

I'm a musician, writer, photographer, and lover of all sorts of media. I've been patiently waiting for the MacBook to be released, and alas, here it is. Despite my initial excitement about it's release, I was a bit concerned with the "glossy" screen (as I've noticed a bunch of other people have as well).

I read something earlier today saying that Apple wasn't overly concerned with the glare problem because 1) Most design professionals would be purchasing the MBP and 2) Something about the MacBook giving off more light (or something) and so it wouldn't be as bad.

I didn't fully understand it. My question is this: Should I still plan on going with the MacBook? I don't want to buy something that will be a pain in the butt to use, but Macs have beat out the competition in my mind in terms of creative media

My advice is go to an Apple store and check out the difference for yourself. It doesn't matter what anyone else says, see if the glare is going to be a problem for you and if the pros outweigh the cons.

matticus008
May 16, 2006, 06:46 PM
So yes, it could still be obsolete even if it's working! It is no longer produced because it has been replaced by a new product. It is obsolete. Think before you speak.
It's more nuanced than that. A 2005 car has been replaced by a 2006, but the 2005 is not obsolete, merely superseded. Obsolete implies that a given item is outdated and no longer sufficient to complete the tasks for which it is designed. Things that are simply old, but perfectly adequate and operational, are not obsolete. A 486 or early Pentium computer is obsolete even if functional...a six month old PowerBook G4 is not obsolete.

MacIllustrator
May 16, 2006, 06:53 PM
Remember even before the MacBook Pro was released they upgraded the processor options to include the 2.16ghz.

Now that Apple is in the Intel camp the upgrade cycles on components (perhaps not enclosures) are going to get FAR shorter. We Apple users must face the fact that our machines won't be the models that will stick around for 9 months. They will be gone every quarter.

The MacBook Pro's will get all new processors in late summer when the 64bit enable Duos come out that are faster and use less power.

The MacBooks will probably get a bumps as well.

This is good news for Apple but means that our machines will be much less powerful than Apple's latest far, far faster.

Welcome to the real world. My first Mac was a screaming 35MHz. (yes you read that right) Every time I bought a new computer it wasn't long before something better came along. At first it is frustrating when you buy something and it seems like the very next day something better comes along. (I had that literally happen) but in the end it is great for Apple and for you too. You can buy a far superior computer today than you could back then, and for less money. How is that bad?

Mitch1984
May 16, 2006, 07:11 PM
Not me. Those who chose to be early adopters knew the risks for being impatient. You can't buy the first round of computers, and then complain later that the latest machines are faster/better. There are always going to be faster/better machines AND disappointed people who can't wait.

With Apple's new product line, you can expect faster updates; so people better get used to it. Imagine what the complete product line is going to look like a year from now, when we are in 3rd or even 4th revision! All currently selling machines are going to seem like "old technology". I suppose that's Apple's plan to increase revenues. People are going to buy more often; and that means ebay is going to need a special section for all of the used Apple computers that's going to be flooding the market. I just finished reading a post from a guy who's thinking about selling his 3 week old MBP to buy one of the new MacBooks!

Exactly being patient ain't gonna stop the fact that there will still be new machines out regulary.
I got my iMac Core Duo even though I knew that Core 2 Duo was out in the Summer.
I just figured, "there's always eBay if I want to upgrade"

Di9it8
May 16, 2006, 07:32 PM
UK prices have gone up by £100 on each model.:rolleyes: :confused:
On the MBP side in the UK prices have gone down £100 for each model

http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukstore.woa/5044040/wo/b76A11B2Bgp72JKZ1lG2aFHc8NV/0.PSLID?mco=26BBDC17&nclm=MacBookPro

:D

zync
May 16, 2006, 08:13 PM
If the only thing you can find to support your position is the freaking dictionary, you might want to think twice before asking people to think before they speak. :rolleyes: :D

I'm sorry what other source on the english language do you suggest I point them to?

zync
May 16, 2006, 08:25 PM
It's more nuanced than that. A 2005 car has been replaced by a 2006, but the 2005 is not obsolete, merely superseded. Obsolete implies that a given item is outdated and no longer sufficient to complete the tasks for which it is designed. Things that are simply old, but perfectly adequate and operational, are not obsolete. A 486 or early Pentium computer is obsolete even if functional...a six month old PowerBook G4 is not obsolete.

Something that can no longer complete the tasks it was designed for is called broken. Would you say that my old 1968 Mustang, that still drove perfectly was not obsoleted by my 2005 Mustang? If an item is no longer current, it is obsolete. His MBP is not current, it is obsolete.

A 486 is still sufficient to complete its tasks. Most people owning 486's primarily owned them for word processing, and possibly keeping their financial information. They still do that quite well. According to your own statement 486's are not obsolete, yet you say they are. Why? A smaller time frame between items does not mean that obsolescence is not possible. Outdating can occur in a day.

I brought out the dictionary definition of the word. Saying that the word is more "nuanced" than the dictionary definition implies that you are talking about its connotation. I don't care what you think the word means to you. I care about what the word means.

gwangung
May 16, 2006, 08:31 PM
Something that can no longer complete the tasks it was designed for is called broken. Would you say that my old 1968 Mustang, that still drove perfectly was not obsoleted by my 2005 Mustang? If an item is no longer current, it is obsolete.

I brought out the dictionary definition of the word. Saying that the word is more "nuanced" than the dictionary definition implies that you are talking about its connotation. I don't care what you think the word means to you. I care about what the word means.

If so, the word you used does not, in any way, apply to the situation. It's useful. It can be used on all programs that the new McBook Pro can use. On many, many tasks, it is just as fast as the new, and the ones where it is slower, the difference is often negligible.

Don't devalue the language.

zync
May 16, 2006, 08:37 PM
If so, the word you used does not, in any way, apply to the situation. It's useful. It can be used on all programs that the new McBook Pro can use. On many, many tasks, it is just as fast as the new, and the ones where it is slower, the difference is often negligible.

Don't devalue the language.

I don't see how I can possibly devalue the language by upholding its integrity.

Again, just because something is useful does not make it obsolete. We use old iMacs (pre UFO) to power our printers for screenprinting, and they are definitely obsolete even when compared to my three year old 1.25GHz PowerBook. They still however do their job well. I already provided the definition, something replaced by something else makes the original something obsolete. The transitive verbal form of the word specifically states that the thing being replaced is even a product or idea.

Obsolete basically means that something is older—but such an easy definition would certainly be devaluing the language, wouldn't it? I have never heard such a ridiculous argument.

And for the record, I was not the person who originally used the word obsolete to describe a MBP, as I do not have one. You people will knock everyone. I was originally trying to defend a person using an english word in the proper manner to describe his 1.83GHz MBP which is no longer produced and thus, as he stated, obsolete.

Kermy
May 16, 2006, 08:51 PM
Ok just got back from the Apple store. IF you bought your MBP 1.83 Ghz within the LAST 14 days, you can go there and get a $100 REFUND.

AidenShaw
May 16, 2006, 08:53 PM
guys, what do you all think? will apple use merom july/august directly or will we have wait some weeks/months longer cause of e.g. mainboard modification? :rolleyes:
Apple will announce Merom laptops the same day that Dell/HP/Lenovo/Asus/... announce them.

They can't be seen as falling behind the other Intel shops.

The real question is - does Apple switch everything (MB/MBP/iMac/mini) to Merom on day one?

If they do, Apple can claim an "all 64-bit lineup".... Crank up the hype machines!

Y3Z
May 16, 2006, 08:57 PM
isn't glossy screen = more chances of getting dead pixels:confused:

correct me if i'm wrong.

mkrishnan
May 16, 2006, 09:01 PM
isn't glossy screen = more chances of getting dead pixels:confused:

correct me if i'm wrong.

Okay, erm, I'm correcting you. Why would you think that? The gloss treatment (X-Brite, Apple's screens, whatever) is just a cover treatment on the outside. AFAIK, it has nothing to do with the LCD deposition process. And therefore no impact on the number of dead pixels.

AidenShaw
May 16, 2006, 09:15 PM
I think they will because Apple released Core Duo Mac's a day after the Core Duo was released (I think).
My guess is that Intel give Apple about a dozen chips before they even come out to help Apple design their new machines.
Apple released the Core Duos the following week - very understandable, because

Apple was a PowerPC vendor, it had *no* Intel products in its normal sales channel
The Steve didn't want to share the Yonah announcement stage with Mr. Dell


"About a dozen" chips? LOL. It is so *easy* to get Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest systems right now it is laughable. Intel "samples" hundreds of thousands of early production chips. I can't tell you how many Woodcrest and Conroe systems I have right now without violating my NDA agreement. (Since it could be "0", I don't think that I'm violating anything.)

tjf323
May 16, 2006, 09:17 PM
A little disappointed by the speed increase considering my Dual 2.0ghz is only two weeks old (Great Machine!). But yeah I understand that Apple needs to do this. However in another 12 months when they really start to boost speeds I might feel a little worse. Would be nice to see apple offer processor upgradable machines. Progressive organisations who want to meet their environmental responsibilties should be producing upgradable products if they are going to become obsolete so quickly. I'd much rather pay $800 AUD in 12 months for a processor upgrade than $4000 for a new computer. But hey maybe it isn't possible?

macpastor
May 16, 2006, 09:21 PM
Drat. shipped May 4. Oh well, no free money for me...:(


it is 14 days, so you are safe... go get your refund.

floatingspirit
May 16, 2006, 09:37 PM
I think on the regular Macbook (iBook replacement) there is no option. You get the glossy screen by default. Only on the MBP is there an option.

Dude, are you sure that's a fact?

jaydub
May 16, 2006, 09:41 PM
Dude, are you sure that's a fact?I just tried building a MacBook on Apple's site, and there's no option like there is when you build a MacBook Pro. I think that's evidence enough.

floatingspirit
May 16, 2006, 09:47 PM
I just tried building a MacBook on Apple's site, and there's no option like there is when you build a MacBook Pro. I think that's evidence enough.

Annnnnd I guess this proves it too:

Bright, widescreen experience
At 1280 by 800, the 13.3-inch glossy widescreen display delivers 30% more viewing area than the iBook or 12-inch PowerBook — perfect for movies and more...

Based on the above posts that trashed the glossy screen, I'm now less enthusiatic about getting a Macbook, as cool as it is... They were never glossy before?

lordmac
May 16, 2006, 09:48 PM
Yea i was at the apple store today and to my surprise they actually had macbooks already. Seems like its usually a week or so after the announcement that new machines arrive at the apple stores. They had both a black one and a white one on display for people to look at. That black case is pretty hot in real life though i liked the white one a lot too. I also have to say they looked much better in real life then in the pictures on the apple site imho. They were nice and snappy though i didn't want to hog it so i didn't try anything very intensive. The cases them selves felt pretty light though not super light but at the same time felt rigid and strong. The keybord design stood out to me the most as different, there is a visible gab between all the keys giving it a unique look, and a good feel. On the black version the letters on the keys are white giving a real "contrastey" look. Besides from the integrated graphics and the forced glossy screen apple did well with this machine.

Just my thoughts on the matter. :)

caralck
May 16, 2006, 10:40 PM
I'm very excited about the speed bump/price drop since it drops the cost of the computer i'm obsessively dreaming about...I've had a 667 PB for the past 4 years so I may have seizures when I use this newer computer due to the speed(JK :p )

anyway, while it would bum me out to miss out on a speed bump if it occured the day after I bought (which is why I check this place out), my main concern is the 4x superdrive. I read elsewhere that you can't even get DVDs to burn with this slower drive since they almost all only work with the 8x drive. Or at least the ones for the slower drive are hard to come by. Is this true? I don't make movies (yet) but for data backup I would like to make sure I can easily get the media. I don't want to be sitting here 4 years from now unable to even use the drive for data backup because the media is unobtainable. That being said, anybody know of rumors for a 8x DL drive that will be released? I'm clearly a novice when it comes to the DVD media stuff since my computer is archaic. Although if it weren't for the fact that the screen on my PB is busted and I can no longer easily open and close it without further damaging it. The screen itself functions beautifully so it's sad that mobility is nearly impossible as this beauty continues to function so well.

And yes, unless I am forced to upgrade for some reason such as no longer being able to get suitable software for the MBP as it stands in 4 years, I probably won't be able to afford a new computer for awhile once I get it. Gotta get a new car, I'll have to start paying off my $175,000+ loan for my education, mortgage, and god knows what else.

That is unless I find myself a sugar daddy :p

zync
May 16, 2006, 10:51 PM
I'm very excited about the speed bump/price drop since it drops the cost of the computer i'm obsessively dreaming about...I've had a 667 PB for the past 4 years so I may have seizures when I use this newer computer due to the speed(JK :p )

anyway, while it would bum me out to miss out on a speed bump if it occured the day after I bought (which is why I check this place out), my main concern is the 4x superdrive. I read elsewhere that you can't even get DVDs to burn with this slower drive since they almost all only work with the 8x drive. Or at least the ones for the slower drive are hard to come by. Is this true? I don't make movies (yet) but for data backup I would like to make sure I can easily get the media. I don't want to be sitting here 4 years from now unable to even use the drive for data backup because the media is unobtainable. That being said, anybody know of rumors for a 8x DL drive that will be released? I'm clearly a novice when it comes to the DVD media stuff since my computer is archaic. Although if it weren't for the fact that the screen on my PB is busted and I can no longer easily open and close it without further damaging it. The screen itself functions beautifully so it's sad that mobility is nearly impossible as this beauty continues to function so well.

And yes, unless I am forced to upgrade for some reason such as no longer being able to get suitable software for the MBP as it stands in 4 years, I probably won't be able to afford a new computer for awhile once I get it. Gotta get a new car, I'll have to start paying off my $175,000+ loan for my education, mortgage, and god knows what else.

That is unless I find myself a sugar daddy :p

I'm able to find media quite easily for my 2x Super Drive. The ratings for DVDs are not labeled specifically for one speed, they're rated at the fastest speed they can handle. IE, on an 8x disc you can write at 8x, 4x, 2x, or 1x (they don't make other speeds as far as I know in between there).

absurdio
May 16, 2006, 11:03 PM
Uh...did the 17" MBPs get boosted at all?
Looks like the same price and the exact same stats. Still 2.16 Ghz, still 100 or 120Gb HD. Still 2Gb max ram...
The only difference I can see is that now you have the option to get a glossy (read: glare-riddled) screen on your MBP. No, thanks.
Am I missing something? Was there some other performance bump that I've overlooked?

igentz
May 16, 2006, 11:15 PM
has anyone played any games on the new macbook? whats the intergrated video experence like? id like one but i have not the money for a MBP only a MB and thats a mabey. . .

Electro Funk
May 16, 2006, 11:16 PM
Uh...did the 17" MBPs get boosted at all?
Looks like the same price and the exact same stats. Still 2.16 Ghz, still 100 or 120Gb HD. Still 2Gb max ram...
The only difference I can see is that now you have the option to get a glossy (read: glare-riddled) screen on your MBP. No, thanks.
Am I missing something? Was there some other performance bump that I've overlooked?

no, just the 15's...

bretm
May 16, 2006, 11:25 PM
Is it just me that noticed that the 2.0ghz MacBook has nearly the same specs speed wize as the 2.16 MBP. Granted it is nice that the consumer laptop is that nicley priced but is is absurd that the MBP came out costing as much as it did. What are the benefits of the MBP at this point other than the screen and the hard drive. The 15'' MBP is pretty much obselete right now and I could not see anyone paying the money for that computer.

Expansion, RAM, HD, Graphics processing, Screen, Backlit keyboard, Aluminum.

You bought a top end machine. The same could have been said before when comparing the iBook with the PB 12". I never understood why the PB 12" sold for so much more.

bretm
May 16, 2006, 11:30 PM
I'm very excited about the speed bump/price drop since it drops the cost of the computer i'm obsessively dreaming about...I've had a 667 PB for the past 4 years so I may have seizures when I use this newer computer due to the speed(JK :p )

anyway, while it would bum me out to miss out on a speed bump if it occured the day after I bought (which is why I check this place out), my main concern is the 4x superdrive. I read elsewhere that you can't even get DVDs to burn with this slower drive since they almost all only work with the 8x drive. Or at least the ones for the slower drive are hard to come by. Is this true? I don't make movies (yet) but for data backup I would like to make sure I can easily get the media. I don't want to be sitting here 4 years from now unable to even use the drive for data backup because the media is unobtainable. That being said, anybody know of rumors for a 8x DL drive that will be released? I'm clearly a novice when it comes to the DVD media stuff since my computer is archaic. Although if it weren't for the fact that the screen on my PB is busted and I can no longer easily open and close it without further damaging it. The screen itself functions beautifully so it's sad that mobility is nearly impossible as this beauty continues to function so well.

And yes, unless I am forced to upgrade for some reason such as no longer being able to get suitable software for the MBP as it stands in 4 years, I probably won't be able to afford a new computer for awhile once I get it. Gotta get a new car, I'll have to start paying off my $175,000+ loan for my education, mortgage, and god knows what else.

That is unless I find myself a sugar daddy :p

You have things very backward. If you have a 1x burning drive you can use any disk. If you have an 8x burning drive you can use any disk. It will only burn at 8x if you use an 8x disc. Etc.

ReanimationLP
May 17, 2006, 12:18 AM
my 2.0 was more expensive yes. I bet Kevin Rose is kicking himself though. The Black one is nice. I would have bought that had it been available 2 months ago. Oh well... at least the only thing really upgraded was the processor. The HDD and video remains the same. And when the warranty runs out i will just get a new processor and install it myself. Hooray for intel (yes i fix macs so it would not be hard for me).

Its technially impossible unless your very good at soldering, due to the Core Duo is actually hard soldered onto the logic board.

absurdio
May 17, 2006, 12:20 AM
Expansion, RAM, HD, Graphics processing, Screen, Backlit keyboard, Aluminum.

You bought a top end machine. The same could have been said before when comparing the iBook with the PB 12". I never understood why the PB 12" sold for so much more.

I'm not totally sure I understand the differences, either.

As far as expansion go, the 15" MBP and the 13" MB seem similar; both have 2 USB 2.0 ports and one FW400. The difference is that the MBP has the ExpressCard/34 slot and DVI out, whereas the MB has just a mini-DVI
So what's the difference between mini-DVI and...um...regular DVI?

The Ram and HD of the maxed-out MB are exactly the same as those of the maxed-out MBPs (15" or 17"): 2GB ram, 120GB HD.

The best processor on the MBPs (2.16 GHz) is better than the best in the MBs (2.0 GHz).

True, the MBP keyboard is backlit, but i admit i'm sortof intrigued by the style of the new MB keyboard. Each key looks more isolated. Overall, i think the keyboard looks less...cheap than the PB/MBP keyboards.

What I know least about is the graphics support bit. Someone help me out here. Do the MacBooks and MBPs have the same graphics card? If not, what's the functional difference between them. And what ARE integrated graphics?

Demon Hunter
May 17, 2006, 12:25 AM
Something that can no longer complete the tasks it was designed for is called broken. Would you say that my old 1968 Mustang, that still drove perfectly was not obsoleted by my 2005 Mustang? If an item is no longer current, it is obsolete. His MBP is not current, it is obsolete.

A 486 is still sufficient to complete its tasks. Most people owning 486's primarily owned them for word processing, and possibly keeping their financial information. They still do that quite well. According to your own statement 486's are not obsolete, yet you say they are. Why? A smaller time frame between items does not mean that obsolescence is not possible. Outdating can occur in a day.

I brought out the dictionary definition of the word. Saying that the word is more "nuanced" than the dictionary definition implies that you are talking about its connotation. I don't care what you think the word means to you. I care about what the word means.

This calls for some David Firth (http://www.fat-pie.com/latestmodel.htm). :D

Teddy's
May 17, 2006, 12:26 AM
Drat. shipped May 4. Oh well, no free money for me...:(

Is not 14 days?
I got my MBP 17" "refund-price-adjustment" at the Apple Store Eaton Centre today. I got Apple Care with it.
I have good experiences when I buy at the Apple Retail Store. No complains.

matticus008
May 17, 2006, 02:22 AM
Something that can no longer complete the tasks it was designed for is called broken. Would you say that my old 1968 Mustang, that still drove perfectly was not obsoleted by my 2005 Mustang? If an item is no longer current, it is obsolete. His MBP is not current, it is obsolete.
It's not broken if it still works--my original Macintosh isn't broken, but it can't play DVDs or get on the Internet. That's obsolete. A 1968 Mustang could be obsolete, but there are those who would argue otherwise. A 2004 or 2005 Mustang is most certainly not--is your Mustang obsolete? After all, it is no longer in production.

A 486 is still sufficient to complete its tasks. Most people owning 486's primarily owned them for word processing, and possibly keeping their financial information. They still do that quite well. According to your own statement 486's are not obsolete, yet you say they are.
What? A 486 cannot function as a viable PC in 2006. You can't do video editing, Internet access is questionable, available video cards are tremendously inadequate, and they cannot run the current versions of word processing or financial applications even to fit your example. How can you say a 1968 Mustang is obsolete (when it still runs on the same fuel and you can still drive and maintain it) and a 486 is not?
Outdating can occur in a day.
And it regularly does. Outdated != obsolete.

I brought out the dictionary definition of the word. Saying that the word is more "nuanced" than the dictionary definition implies that you are talking about its connotation. I don't care what you think the word means to you. I care about what the word means.
Then you are far from a student of the English language. You should know that a basic dictionary is not a complete answer for a word any more than a thesaurus can be trusted. Brief definitions of words do not properly convey appropriate usage or the linguistic connotation of a word. Crimson and cardinal are both defined as shades of dark red, but that's not the whole story, is it? If you really cared about what the word means enough to dig your heels in about this, you should know at least that much.

terkans
May 17, 2006, 02:43 AM
For those of us who aren't able to check out the glossy screens in person, here is an article with some illustrative pictures of the glossy screen in action:
http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/5/16/4004

absurdio
May 17, 2006, 03:17 AM
I'm waiting for Merom and the requisite $3k or so to get a 17" MBP. If, between now and then, the matte screen ceases to be an option on the MBPs, I am going to fling myself in front of a train (excessive?).
I am dreadfully afraid the whole portable line is going to go in the direction of glossy screens. I hope against hope that this is not the case. Fortunately, I have legions of graphic designers, creative professionals, and so on that're on my side here. Gloss = glare = unusable. Here's hoping Apple leaves the pro model alone and keeps the matte finish (at least as an option).

androvboy
May 17, 2006, 04:08 AM
Glad I read this thread. My MBP 17" is shipping and should be here in the next 2 days.

This will be my first ever laptop, at present I have a PC at the office and one at home, and it gets frustrating because I cannot really work from home properly.

My plan was to use the laptop as a glorified portable hard drive, and just plug in spare screens, keyboard, mouse etc when in the office or home.

However once the 17" was released for same money as full-spec 15" I ordered that as I am hoping I might be able to use the screen on the Griffin Icurve stand, and this will save me purchasing or using extra monitors. I have a 17" Dell screen at the moment, so happy with 17".

Then I saw the new Macbook. I can get same processor and hard drive spec for €2000 rather than €3,000 but....

I want a good graphics card for Photoshop etc, so hoping the MBP was the better choice, plus I could NEVER work with a glossy screen (yuk).

I don't need the portability as such - I want performance, and hoping the 17" was still the right choice if I can actually use that screen all day, every day.

eXan
May 17, 2006, 05:41 AM
Ok I now see a huge difference that graphics card on the MacBook is an Intel... Ehhhh... More $ to get the Nvidia.

nVidia is not a good idea in a Mac. ATi is , IMO, better

absurdio
May 17, 2006, 05:58 AM
nVidia is not a good idea in a Mac. ATi is , IMO, better

Someone clarify this whole graphics card issue for me. Why is nVidia not a good idea? What is the difference between a dedicated graphics card and a...not...dedicated...card? I guess, mainly, i'm wondering what the significant difference between the MBP's graphics setup and the MB's is. Thanks.

nukiduz
May 17, 2006, 06:50 AM
hey why there's so many negative votes at this thread? isn't it good that apple improved their mbps ?

zync
May 17, 2006, 07:30 AM
This calls for some David Firth (http://www.fat-pie.com/latestmodel.htm). :D

Haha, nice :) That cartoon is a little "nuanced" though :D

bbrosemer
May 17, 2006, 07:55 AM
Someone clarify this whole graphics card issue for me. Why is nVidia not a good idea? What is the difference between a dedicated graphics card and a...not...dedicated...card? I guess, mainly, i'm wondering what the significant difference between the MBP's graphics setup and the MB's is. Thanks.

The difference the Intel Graphics card takes RAM from your computer!!! It "borrows RAM actually but still the point of the matter is that a dedicated GPU is so much more powerful than any intergrated gpu. Secondly the intel GPU's come with a whole 64 meg on chip, where as the ATI's come with 256. The intel chip is just going to suck up system RAM where as the ATI will run bitchingly fast and carry out nearly everyone's GPU needs on a laptop. If you are looking to play high end games on this computer the MBP is the way to go the MB, will be good for low end games. Ex. Chips Challenege will run very well on the MB. Where as Half Life 2 will be 2 FPS. If you plan on getting the MB make sure you load that with RAM.

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 07:59 AM
Someone clarify this whole graphics card issue for me. Why is nVidia not a good idea? What is the difference between a dedicated graphics card and a...not...dedicated...card? I guess, mainly, i'm wondering what the significant difference between the MBP's graphics setup and the MB's is. Thanks.

The difference between a dedicated graphics card and an integrated graphics card is that integrated graphics share the RAM with with rest of the system, actually taking over however much RAM is alotted to it, while a dedicated card has its own memory, so when it says the X1600 has 256MB vRAM, thats its own dedicated RAM, but teh Intel GMA 950 has 64MB SHARED RAM, which is basically steals from system ram to do its job.

someone please correct me if I'm wrong

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 08:01 AM
hey why there's so many negative votes at this thread? isn't it good that apple improved their mbps ?


apple will never please everyone. If it wasnt the glossy screens it would have been something else, that Im sure of.

zync
May 17, 2006, 08:07 AM
First I must say that you are quite contradictory. "It's not broken if it still works." That's a brilliant statement by the way.

It's not broken if it still works--my original Macintosh isn't broken, but it can't play DVDs or get on the Internet. That's obsolete. A 1968 Mustang could be obsolete, but there are those who would argue otherwise. A 2004 or 2005 Mustang is most certainly not--is your Mustang obsolete? After all, it is no longer in production.

What? A 486 cannot function as a viable PC in 2006. You can't do video editing, Internet access is questionable, available video cards are tremendously inadequate, and they cannot run the current versions of word processing or financial applications even to fit your example. How can you say a 1968 Mustang is obsolete (when it still runs on the same fuel and you can still drive and maintain it) and a 486 is not?

Your original macintosh was not DESIGNED to play DVD's or get on the internet. It still performs the functions it was designed for! 486's are not designed to run the latest versions of word processing or financial applications; they do however run early versions—which were available at the time of their design—quite well. I never said 486's were not obsolete. What I did say is that according to your argument they are because you originally said:

It's more nuanced than that. A 2005 car has been replaced by a 2006, but the 2005 is not obsolete, merely superseded. Obsolete implies that a given item is outdated and no longer sufficient to complete the tasks for which it is designed. Things that are simply old, but perfectly adequate and operational, are not obsolete. A 486 or early Pentium computer is obsolete even if functional...a six month old PowerBook G4 is not obsolete

Emphasis, which obviously leads to your next statement, is mine.

And it regularly does. Outdated != obsolete.

You agreed that outdating regularly occurs in a day and yet a six month old PowerBook G4 is not obsolete? Even though it is six months old, has been replaced by MBPs with immensely different processors, and is no longer produced? Maybe you're trying to say that MBPs are not the descendants of PowerBooks?

Your own definition of obsolete uses outdated as one half of what defines obsolescence. As a student of English, I understand that the term obsolete does not have to imply that the item in question is really old and unused, but instead outdated by something newer.

Then you are far from a student of the English language. You should know that a basic dictionary is not a complete answer for a word any more than a thesaurus can be trusted. Brief definitions of words do not properly convey appropriate usage or the linguistic connotation of a word. Crimson and cardinal are both defined as shades of dark red, but that's not the whole story, is it? If you really cared about what the word means enough to dig your heels in about this, you should know at least that much.

I understand the "nuances" between connotation and denotation. However if a guy uses a word with the correct denotation to prove his point—as the original poster did—we have no right to jump all over him. According to the English language, of which I most certainly am a student of, his MBP was obsolete. You guys just want to jump on him for complaining and so you tell him "it's not obsolete, it still functions." Obsolete, as far as connotation even goes, does not imply something that does not function. Obsolete, implies, in all its various uses, that it is an object that still functions and is no longer produced, ie. it works and its old/outdated, just as you said before. If you'd pay attention you'd realize that I just used your own definition.

Also, as a studio art major, crimson and cardinal are FAR from being the same shade, and the dictionary agrees, defining cardinal as the red of the bird and crimson as a deep red inclining toward the violet end of the spectrum.

And actually my Mustang is not obsolete. The car branded as the 2006 Mustang is not physically different from my own. All of the packages that the "current" Mustang has can be made to make my Mustang. It is still in production and has remained unchanged (as far as my specific model goes). If, in 2007, they change my Mustang to include a bigger engine—or a smaller and weaker one for that matter—my Mustang will become outdated, however I should hope that it still functions :D

Maybe I don't understand English? After all you appear to be speaking it and yet you don't make any sense :D

zync
May 17, 2006, 08:16 AM
Someone clarify this whole graphics card issue for me. Why is nVidia not a good idea? What is the difference between a dedicated graphics card and a...not...dedicated...card? I guess, mainly, i'm wondering what the significant difference between the MBP's graphics setup and the MB's is. Thanks.

This has already been explained, but the MBP has a separate graphics card while the MB does not. Generally what the MB has is called, more properly, integrated graphics.

Basically integrated graphics chipsets do not have their own RAM, and thus feed off of the system's main RAM. The processor also vies for this RAM, especially when the hard drive is used, and so integrated graphics are much slower than an independent card (or chipset in the case of Apple's laptops) that has it's own RAM.

Also, though I'm not entirely sure, integrated graphics processors also have to use the system's processor to get at main RAM, instead of an independent gpu—graphics processing unit—accessing its own RAM.

milo
May 17, 2006, 08:30 AM
The 15's (including the 1.8) are NOT obsolete! Not by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't agree with that definition of obsolete. Webster defines it as "no longer useful" which I think is more accurate. By that definition, a machine is only obsolete if it can't do the latest jobs. Just because something isn't the latest model doesn't make it obsolete. It just isn't the latest and greatest.

arsonata
May 17, 2006, 09:05 AM
That magnetic latch on the new Macbook is all kinds of vogue. What are the chances that it will be added to the MBP when they switch to Merom?

bbrosemer
May 17, 2006, 09:47 AM
The difference between a dedicated graphics card and an integrated graphics card is that integrated graphics share the RAM with with rest of the system, actually taking over however much RAM is alotted to it, while a dedicated card has its own memory, so when it says the X1600 has 256MB vRAM, thats its own dedicated RAM, but teh Intel GMA 950 has 64MB SHARED RAM, which is basically steals from system ram to do its job.

someone please correct me if I'm wrong
You are right for the most part.. that is that the Intel has 64MB of its own but then steals the rest from the computer RAM which is much slower then having its own dedicated RAM.

bbrosemer
May 17, 2006, 09:52 AM
This discussion of being Obselete is pointless. I think it is very fair to call some computers obselete... EX. If it cant connect to the internet then it is pretty obselete... If it can't play a CD then it is obselete... If it does not have a USB it is obselete.. The MBP will not be obselete until USB, Firewire, DVD's, CD's, and DVI are all obselete once all perpherials can no longer be used or a new OS can not be installed with the most fore front technology then the computer is obselete.

Diatribe
May 17, 2006, 10:02 AM
That magnetic latch on the new Macbook is all kinds of vogue. What are the chances that it will be added to the MBP when they switch to Merom?

Pretty good I'd think.

absurdio
May 17, 2006, 11:38 AM
That magnetic latch on the new Macbook is all kinds of vogue. What are the chances that it will be added to the MBP when they switch to Merom?

I'm less optimistic than Diatribe. Of course, I'm also no 68030, so my suspicions may be of comparatively little value.

I was wondering the same thing, though. It IS pretty damn chic to not have all those ugly latches everywhere...
I'd be quite happy to see them pull it off.
I have my doubts, though. There were rumors of a new magnetic closure system well before the 17" MBPs came out...perhaps even before the 15" MBPs. If there were no technical troubles implementing that, why not include it on the Pros?

Some speculation:
1) It might be easier to get the magnetic closure system to work with/through the plastic case than with the aluminum.
2) Since the MB has no latch, it has no release button. instead, it seems to just have a little notch in the lower case to let you lift the lid. It seems like that sort of notch would be harder to build into an aluminum case than a plastic one (or at least harder to do it elegantly). If they do wind up using the magnetic "latch" on the next MBPs, i think they're gonna have to think of a different release than just the MB's little notch.

absurdio
May 17, 2006, 11:47 AM
Another thought:
How likely is it that Apple will even do a significant revision/overhaul of the MBP when Merom comes out? I'm waiting for Merom half in the hopes that they DO make some revisions (like the magnetic latch) to the whole design of the MBP. But Apple has been doing a pretty good job of updating the line quietly. The Core Duo has been updated at least twice now without any revisions to the case/body/design of the MBPs...it seems at least possible to me that when Merom rolls around, the MBPs will stay the same design-wise and just contain a new processor.

Thoughts? Opinions?

I hope I'm wrong here. I'd rather like to see a REAL rev. B. Maybe they can get that top bezel a little thinner. Maybe they can get a DL superdrive in the 15" MBP. Or maybe a goddamn FW800.

absurdio
May 17, 2006, 11:48 AM
P.S. - thanks everyone who responded regarding graphics cards/units/processors. Much appreciated. Since Half Life 2 is about the only thing I want out of Windows, I guess I'm gonna have to keep coveting the MBPs instead of the MBs. Thanks, again.

Kingsly
May 17, 2006, 12:03 PM
Just talked to apple, supposedly the 15 inchers have right click support now too!
:eek:

Like a hardware solution? Please let it be software based! PLEASE!!!

hscottm
May 17, 2006, 12:09 PM
btw, for those of you have been tracking, the low end MBP now beats the price of a similarly configured Dell Precision - even with the $150 standing dell rebate. $1999 vs $2085.

Of course battery life is different to be fair.

I havent fully checked the other 2 standard configs..

caralck
May 17, 2006, 12:39 PM
thanks. I did mention that I have no clue about the dvd burning world. So, just for my education, who should really care about DL drives? I'm guessing that since the most I plan to do with a dvd burner is to back up data and burn the little movies of my niece and other fun short home movies, a DL drive wouldn't be essential. Man, I need to go read up on this stuff.

So I can buy the 8x media and it will work fine in the 15"MBP?

And since I fear that MBPs will only have shiny screens once the rumored august major updates will occur, I think I'll buy now. I'm off to the apple store to salivate over the computer I want.:o

Digidesign
May 17, 2006, 12:59 PM
Any ideas whether the Macbook Pro will come in black eventually?

sethypoo
May 17, 2006, 01:14 PM
At least some people with common sense around here. ;)

You know, some people might actually want to buy a glossy screen; for some, it may be very much worth it. Stop trolling and scaring people off!:mad: :rolleyes:

sethypoo
May 17, 2006, 01:15 PM
Any ideas whether the Macbook Pro will come in black eventually?

Geesh, I hope so! A black anodized aluminium case would be so very, very cool.

andafly
May 17, 2006, 01:48 PM
Not happy that I've only had my MBP17 for 5 days and already the price has been dropped by £100... :mad:

I'm confused...I didn't see the price drop of the 17"mbp in the U.S. site. Can anybody tell me if the 17" one's price really droped already??? :confused:

Thanks!!!

matticus008
May 17, 2006, 02:07 PM
Your original macintosh was not DESIGNED to play DVD's or get on the internet. It still performs the functions it was designed for! 486's are not designed to run the latest versions of word processing or financial applications; they do however run early versions—which were available at the time of their design—quite well. I never said 486's were not obsolete.
You're being entirely too selective about tasks. By your argument, a car isn't obsolete if it was originally designed with a top speed of 35mph. As a car, it's not even in the ballpark with modern capabilities, making it obsolete. A Mac Classic, as a personal computer is inadequate and therefore obsolete. You're missing the huge gulf in capability between a 160MHz slower MacBook and a 20 year old computer--the difference which makes one obsolete and not the other.


You agreed that outdating regularly occurs in a day and yet a six month old PowerBook G4 is not obsolete? Even though it is six months old, has been replaced by MBPs with immensely different processors, and is no longer produced?
Yes, because outdating != (does not equal) obsolete. A V6 and a V8 are immensely different, but if they added a V8 option to a car this year, that doesn't mean that the V6 they used last year is obsolete. Something can be obsolete even if it is still produced, and something can be no longer produced and not be obsolete. Your car is no longer produced (despite the huge physical similarity between the 2005 and 2006, there are differences in the configuration options and part suppliers). The fact that it is carried over largely unchanged doesn't negate the fact that it is not identical. The slower MacBook Pro had only one change made, and a minor one at that. The original MBP has been superseded, but is far from obsolete.

As a student of English, I understand that the term obsolete does not have to imply that the item in question is really old and unused, but instead outdated by something newer.
If it's simply outdated, then it's outdated, not obsolete. Despite what the dictionary says, your understanding does not reflect accepted usage.

According to the English language, of which I most certainly am a student of, his MBP was obsolete.
Not at all. His MBP can do EVERYTHING that a new one can. The difference is as minor as changing the wattage on the speakers. A product can't be obsolete solely because it has been replaced. That's not the weight that the term "obsolete" carries.

Obsolete, implies, in all its various uses, that it is an object that still functions and is no longer produced, ie. it works and its old/outdated, just as you said before. If you'd pay attention you'd realize that I just used your own definition.
No, you're not. You're using half of the definition, which is not the same thing.

Also, as a studio art major, crimson and cardinal are FAR from being the same shade, and the dictionary agrees, defining cardinal as the red of the bird and crimson as a deep red inclining toward the violet end of the spectrum.
I never said they were the same; the dictionary doesn't really make a working distinction unless you know the implications of the other words. The definition for cardinal uses the word scarlet. Scarlet and cardinal aren't the same, either. But if I stuck to what the dictionary said, I could use them interchangeably.

If, in 2007, they change my Mustang to include a bigger engine—or a smaller and weaker one for that matter—my Mustang will become outdated, however I should hope that it still functions :D
By your definition, your Mustang would be obsolete, and obviously you know that it wouldn't be true.

matticus008
May 17, 2006, 02:21 PM
You are right for the most part.. that is that the Intel has 64MB of its own but then steals the rest from the computer RAM which is much slower then having its own dedicated RAM.
No, it doesn't. It has no memory of its own. It steals the 64, too.

As for the working definition of integrated graphics here, it's not entirely accurate. The definition used, "built into the logic board," actually best describes an embedded graphics system. Integrated graphics are built into system components on the logic board and are inseparable from the computer (motherboards which use them cannot offer "optional" upgrades to better GPUs).

ATi and others make embedded systems, which they supply as chips to motherboard manufacturers to be built in to compatible motherboards. Embedded graphics systems take up more space than integrated systems but offer better performance because they often have their own memory, and it's possible to offer a selection of BTO options with these.

Discrete systems are seen as cards in desktops, but in notebook computers they can be either cards or right on the motherboard. A discrete system is a complete package with its own memory, its own internal bus, and a complete set of video functions that communicates with the rest of the system on the peripheral bus (AGP or PCIe). This offers the best performance, but also takes up the most space and generates a tremendous amount of heat (often equal to or greater than the CPU).

The MBP has a discrete graphics processor (which is built directly into the logic board). The MacBook has integrated graphics built directly into the logic chipset and no capacity for upgrades or optional GPUs.

CaptainScarlet
May 17, 2006, 02:39 PM
Wonder if my 17" will get this update, since I just ordered it on the 8th...from PCConnection...and they said two weeks...

I hope so!

absurdio
May 17, 2006, 03:50 PM
And since I fear that MBPs will only have shiny screens once the rumored august major updates will occur, I think I'll buy now. I'm off to the apple store to salivate over the computer I want.:o

Lord, I hope not.

heisetax
May 17, 2006, 03:51 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In addition to the MacBook introduction today, Apple has quietly bumped the specs of its MacBook Pro (http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/) line, leaving pricepoints unchanged.

The lineup currently stands as:
15.4" 2.0Ghz Core Duo, $1,999
15.4" 2.16Ghz Core Duo, $2,499
17" 2.16Ghz Core Duo, $2,799

Customers are also now able to custom-build their MacBook Pro with a glossy screen at no additional charge.



I always thought that a speed bump meant that there would be at least one new higher speed. To me this is just a price drop. The 2.0 & 2.16 GHz processors were options before as well as now. There was no new higher speed model made available. So to me this is just a price drop, even if it is a $500 amount.

The actual speed bump was made before the Intel MacBook SemiPro was shipped. At that time they dropped the 1.6 GHz model & added a 2.16 GHz model. Like that time the low end 1.8 GHz model was dropped, but no new speed/model was added to the top like before.

Price decrease yes, speed bump no.

Bill the TaxMan

matticus008
May 17, 2006, 04:06 PM
Price decrease yes, speed bump no.

It's a speed bump because at the stock prices you're getting a faster CPU than before...so each model has been "bumped" to the next faster CPU. There's no price decrease, only that former options were made standard. The stock models are faster for the same price, so it can't really be called a price change.

Apple Shmapple
May 17, 2006, 04:23 PM
I have to commend Apple for another round bumps with no charge. I do however feel for those who have already purchased MacBook Pros.

Huh? All computer companies have to do this. If they didn't, a personal computer would cost $150,000 by now.