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MacRumors
May 17, 2006, 06:56 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As people have had time to absorb the information about the new Apple MacBook (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/05/20060516090301.shtml) released yesterday, there are some photo gallerys as well as some observations about the newest Apple laptop.

Todd Benjamin, Apple's director of portables worldwide product marketing provided some comments (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?home&NewsID=14661) on the new laptop. He explains "The performance improvement in these systems over the preceeding [G4] systems is dramatic".

He describes the new "glossy" screens:

"We say glossy because when you look at the screens you'll see a glossy appearance. It means colours are much richer, they look great"

However, not everyone seems happy with the glossy screens as there have been some complaints (http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/5/16/4004).

Macworld provides (http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/firstlooks/macbookfirst/index.php) a "first look" at the new MacBook. Of interest, they provide a size comparison photo (http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/images/content/macbook-12compare.jpg) comparing the 12" PowerBook to the new 13.3" MacBook.

The MacBook internals have been designed to give users relatively easy access to the MacBook's memory slots as well as a user replaceable hard drive (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1750).

Flipping a MacBook upside down and removing its rectangular lithium-polymer battery reveals two RAM slots, placed side-by-side on one wall of the battery cavity.
....
Below the two RAM slots (at the base of the battery cavity) is where you'll find the MacBook's hard disk drive. Without disassembling the notebook, users will be able to quickly removing some protective aluminum shielding and lift the drive out of the computer.


Multiple photo galleries have already appeared featuring the new laptop: 1 (http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/macbookphotos/), 2 (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1748), 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pealco/147622880/in/set-72057594136649292/), 4 (http://domojo.com/macbook/), 5 (http://looprumors.com/macbookphotos.php). Meanwhile, Kodawarisan has already posted disassembly photos (http://www.kodawarisan.com/k2006/archives/2006/05/macbook_aaaa_1.html) of the new MacBook.

prechrchet
May 17, 2006, 06:59 AM
I see that the MB uses integrated video instead of a dedicated video card. Any idea how much of a performance lag I should expect to see when I get mine this summer?

sunfast
May 17, 2006, 07:02 AM
I think it's a fine machine - excellent value for money. Can't wait to get one of my own.

Zeke
May 17, 2006, 07:02 AM
User replaceable hard drive? Awesome...this is really really nice! I agree with the integrated video decision. It lets Apple make a cheap laptop designed for casual computer users who don't need the extra power. I'm liking this thing and will be ordering one for the wife shortly.

ipacmm
May 17, 2006, 07:02 AM
Wow, the black MacBook doesn't even look like a Mac anymore...to me it does look like an IBM. The user replaceable hard drive sounds like a great idea to make your laptop last even longer now.

bwintx
May 17, 2006, 07:04 AM
Multiple photo galleries have already appeared featuring the new laptop: 1 (http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/macbookphotos/), 2 (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1748), 3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pealco/147622880/in/set-72057594136649292/), 4 (http://domojo.com/macbook/), 5 (http://looprumors.com/macbookphotos.php). Meanwhile, Kodawarisan has already posted disassembly photos (http://www.kodawarisan.com/k2006/archives/2006/05/macbook_aaaa_1.html) of the new MacBook.

1 and 2 are essentially the same. Why list both?

Fearless Leader
May 17, 2006, 07:08 AM
"Meanwhile, Kodawarisan has already posted disassembly photos of the new MacBook."
I just dont get it whay would you take apart such a pretty thing...

Dangit i had my heart set on the 17 and then paiting it jet black, but these new mac are so pretty. I think they have the "Come Buy Me" shade of black...:rolleyes:

BornAgainMac
May 17, 2006, 07:08 AM
Access to the memory slots by flipping the notebook rather than opening the keyboard is a better. Also I like that you can upgrade the hard drive very easily compared to the MBP. I would get the most stripped down MB and upgrade it myself. Plus you can have a almost dedicated drive for Windows and a separate for OSX. Or if you have to send your book for repairs, you can swap out the drive with another so they don't format your drive or have access to your data. Too bad games will suffer on this model.

I like the glossy screen too. I never had a problem with the mirror effect that people complain about. I guess my lighting was just right. I like that we have a choice with the pro laptops now.

jonharris200
May 17, 2006, 07:21 AM
The MacBooks are so full of features... will they cannibalise MacBook Pro sales? :confused:

thequicksilver
May 17, 2006, 07:25 AM
I've read some places saying that replacing the HD even on this user-friendly Macbook invalidates your warranty. Can anyone here confirm either way?

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 07:28 AM
The MacBooks are so full of features... will they cannibalise MacBook Pro sales? :confused:

I really dont see this becoming too much of an issue, while the MB is full-featured, there are just somethings on the MBP that alot of people want/need and are willing to pay more to get (ie dedicated graphics, expresscard34, FW800, etc.)

andiwm2003
May 17, 2006, 07:29 AM
i don't game and i was contemplating a mac mini core duo as "media center". but the macbooks are a great value so i might go for a macbook instead. that can serve as media center and also helps me with the intel transition. i don't really want or need a rev.A powermac now. i plan on a powermac next year. meanwhile the macbook could give me a nice speed boost over my G4 powerbook.

all in all a great notebook that will make most users happy. only gamers are left behind (again).

Crager724
May 17, 2006, 07:30 AM
In the dock, what application is to the right of Quicktime? Is that Front Row?

dnedved
May 17, 2006, 07:32 AM
The comparison with the 12" makes it even more obvious that they need to come out with a subnote. With USB ports who really needs a built-in optical drive? Especially if you consider the fact that a high-quality notebook has a lifespan of at least 3 years and we have competing high-density optical standards coming out right now.

Buschmaster
May 17, 2006, 07:34 AM
I like my screen a lot.:confused:

.Andy
May 17, 2006, 07:35 AM
I think they look absolutely beautiful. I can't wait to try out that new keyboard either. Apple always seem to excel in the laptop keyboard department.

And much love to the 12" powerbook. Looks like it'll reign as the smallest and lightest Apple laptop for a while yet......RIP :(.

Roy Hobbs
May 17, 2006, 07:36 AM
In the dock, what application is to the right of Quicktime? Is that Front Row?


Photobooth

Shamus
May 17, 2006, 07:38 AM
I always thought that the glossy screens were better...? Why are people now saying that they arent better?

Also, that keyboard looks awesome :). Infact, the whole thing is designed very well. The plastic looks semi-scratch resistent - a nice addition.

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 07:41 AM
[QUOTE=Shamus]I always thought that the glossy screens were better...? Why are people now saying that they arent better?[QUOTE]

Its a matter of preference, some people like the fact that it gives you more vivid color, others hate it b/c it has a tendency to glare and act like a mirror. Atleast the MBP lets you choose

.Andy
May 17, 2006, 07:42 AM
I always thought that the glossy screens were better...? Why are people now saying that they arent better?.
I think it's more concerns with the reflective nature of the screens. Some consider them unacceptable when in a moderate-high light situation.

edit: beaten by speedy-pants ^^^^

ifjake
May 17, 2006, 07:43 AM
to me the keyboard doesn't look as nice, but someone will have to actually try it out and compare.

and as for the glossy screen, i can definitely attest to how the matte versions dufuse sunlight like crazy and make it unusable, while with glossy screens i can imagine that all you'd have to do is reposition yourself so that the glare doesn't go to you eyes and you'd be set. it's took me a little bit to get used to the idea, but after thinking through it a bit the glossyness of the screen isn't such a bad thing.

JFreak
May 17, 2006, 07:44 AM
I've read some places saying that replacing the HD even on this user-friendly Macbook invalidates your warranty. Can anyone here confirm either way?

No. If it's a user serviceable part, then the end user may do whatever one wishes about such part. Even before, one was allowed to let certified personnel have the drive replaced, so there's nothing magical about the factory installed hard drive. It's a common spare part, nothing more.

geese
May 17, 2006, 07:46 AM
http://www.cosam.org/images/spectrum_plus_closeup.jpg

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/macbookphotos/image/macbook-7.jpg

Shamus
May 17, 2006, 07:46 AM
to me the keyboard doesn't look as nice, but someone will have to actually try it out and compare.

I tend to agree with you somewhat, but it looks as if it would function better (ie. not as much stuff getting caught underneath). I think it looks kinda weird only because it is 'different'.

Depending on the feedback and popularity of this keyboard design...I wonder if the Macbook Pro's will adopt this new design in near-future revisions?

dmcgann
May 17, 2006, 07:49 AM
wheres the best place to get ram for this????

ifjake
May 17, 2006, 07:55 AM
looking at the pictures now you can see that they keys are flat and don't have that nice contoured surface. they're probably more plastic-y as well. i'm kinda itching to go to an Applestore now to try it.

iSee
May 17, 2006, 07:56 AM
The comparison with the 12" makes it even more obvious that they need to come out with a subnote. With USB ports who really needs a built-in optical drive? Especially if you consider the fact that a high-quality notebook has a lifespan of at least 3 years and we have competing high-density optical standards coming out right now.

Yeah, it really does seem like these 13.3" MacBooks open up a hole in Apple's notebook lineup at the tiny end. And with the consolidation of the both the 12" iBook and 12" Powerbook into the MacBook.

Think about it: If the 12" iBook design team has been working on the MacBook for the past X months, what has the 12" powerbook design team been working on?!? :D

(Although, I don't like the idea of a notebook without some kind of optical drive. I'd end up having the stick some damn external one in my bag all the time anyway...)

emotion
May 17, 2006, 08:04 AM
Think about it: If the 12" iBook design team has been working on the MacBook for the past X months, what has the 12" powerbook design team been working on?!? :D


The killer new ultraportable MBP with a 10.4" WS display of course.

:)

beige matchbox
May 17, 2006, 08:05 AM
Need to get my fingers on that keyboard, looks pants for typing in the photos :rolleyes:

And the screen will make it totally useless in most situations (yes i do have a lappy with a glossy screen).


Apart from that, it looks excellent. And if it wasn't for the graphics i'd trade my powerbook in for one just like that, and don't tell me to get a macbook pro, I'm too tight for that :cool:

Hattig
May 17, 2006, 08:10 AM
Well, there's certainly no space on that motherboard to put a discrete graphics chip. It is incredibly compact. I'm surprised there was space for a Firewire chip!

Also the CPU looks like it will be directly underneath the middle-top-left of the keyboard (around the F3/F4 keys?). Nice in the winter, keeps your fingers warm.

Again we see how a massive optical drive takes up all the space in a laptop. Without it you could easily create a 10.6" widescreen subnotebook, but I don't see Apple wanting to move to an external drive, even if in the main it would mean a smaller lighter system.

Battery is now inset into the bottom of the laptop - I hate how my iBook's battery is visible from the front and side. Still it lasted 10 months before it was replaced, sadly it was replaced by something several times more powerful, except in graphics.

j-a-x
May 17, 2006, 08:10 AM
The black one looks cool, but in a way it looks like the old black G3 laptops, or black PC laptops. I bet it would look better in person though.
I'd like to see a benchmark comparing it to my G4 1.5 Ghz 12".

iSee
May 17, 2006, 08:10 AM
http://www.cosam.org/images/spectrum_plus_closeup.jpg

Wow, what is that thing? That looks awesome! :) The computer and keyboard are built in together, C-64 style? I haven't seen one of these before. Maybe I'm skewed because I like retro-looking computers, but I think the design of this thing really holds up. :) Anyway, as you point out, Apple clearly used it for inspiration for the design of the MacBooks. (Whew, just managed to bring my post back on topic. :D )

weitzner
May 17, 2006, 08:11 AM
the keyboard just looks different...i want to type on it. the black one reminds me of the powerbook g3.

dnedved
May 17, 2006, 08:12 AM
(Although, I don't like the idea of a notebook without some kind of optical drive. I'd end up having the stick some damn external one in my bag all the time anyway...)

Then you might not be in the market for a subnote. I've had 4 over the years and have always loved them. The first 3 were pre-USB and I still found them perfectly usable as my main machine. I found the fact that I took it absolutely everywhere with me to outweigh the lack of features / performance. Between 802.11, bluetooth, firewire taget mode, cheap USB memory sticks, and $50 external USB hard-drive cases I can't see why I'd ever want an optical drive on the road these days, but that's just me and I definitely AM in the market for a subnote. Bring on the 8" tablet!!! I'll gladly trade in my 17" PB for a mini and a subnote.

milo
May 17, 2006, 08:17 AM
I see that the MB uses integrated video instead of a dedicated video card. Any idea how much of a performance lag I should expect to see when I get mine this summer?

3d gaming performance will be weak. Just about anything else, you'll see no lag at all. These machines will do HD video playback without breaking a sweat.

Just make sure you get a gig (or more) of ram. That goes for ANY intel mac.

neoelectronaut
May 17, 2006, 08:18 AM
So where can I buy a Notebook-Sized 120GB SATA HD to plop into this thing when I buy it?

jonharris200
May 17, 2006, 08:19 AM
So, no witty, retro, ironic beige MacBook then. ;)

ejl10
May 17, 2006, 08:20 AM
I've read some places saying that replacing the HD even on this user-friendly Macbook invalidates your warranty. Can anyone here confirm either way?

I doubt it. The same rumors were flying about the iMac G5s when they came out, but they turned out to be false. An Apple CSR told me that they'd still warrant the machine for any problems not HD related, and for any problems if I put the original disk back in (for my iMac, not MacBook).

dan-o-mac
May 17, 2006, 08:21 AM
Apple please add an option for matte screen in the BTO options. As much as I want to buy it, I think I wait and see what rev. b has to offer. Now its time for me to search craiglist and get a good discount on the 12" powerbook I've always wanted.

red_wedge
May 17, 2006, 08:21 AM
Wow, what is that thing? That looks awesome! :) The computer and keyboard are built in together, C-64 style? I haven't seen one of these before. Maybe I'm skewed because I like retro-looking computers, but I think the design of this thing really holds up. :) Anyway, as you point out, Apple clearly used it for inspiration for the design of the MacBooks. (Whew, just managed to bring my post back on topic. :D )

That, my friend, is a Sinclair ZX Spectrum. They were big in the UK in the 80s, designed by Sir Clive Sinclair. they gave Commodore a run for their money. In fact they were never quite as good graphically, but they had a huge user base. Take a look at these also...

sinclair QL: http://homepages.tesco.net/dilwyn.jones/
original spectrum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZX_Spectrum
ZX81: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_ZX81

They were, in my opinion, design classics!

prechrchet
May 17, 2006, 08:22 AM
3d gaming performance will be weak. Just about anything else, you'll see no lag at all. These machines will do HD video playback without breaking a sweat.

Just make sure you get a gig (or more) of ram. That goes for ANY intel mac.

Thanks.

Mal
May 17, 2006, 08:22 AM
As the proud owner of a new MacBook (base model), I can say with authority that the screen is amazing, and the keyboard is very nice as well. I'll probably end up upgrading the hard drive at some point, once a 100GB or 120GB drops in price and I'm able to afford it.

I did want to know, what exactly is the advantage of paired vs unpaired RAM in these MacBooks? I can obviously upgrade the RAM cheaper with just one 1GB stick, but if the advantage is enough, I may wait and get two sticks.

jW

neonart
May 17, 2006, 08:24 AM
I see that the MB uses integrated video instead of a dedicated video card. Any idea how much of a performance lag I should expect to see when I get mine this summer?

Comapred to you iBook I don't think you'll have to worry about lag. It'll probably run just as fast (if not more) than you G5 iMac.

Gaming/motion graphics are probably where performance will lag on the MacBook.

miketcool
May 17, 2006, 08:25 AM
However, not everyone seems happy with the glossy screens as there has been some complaints (http://arstechnica.com/staff/fatbits.ars/2006/5/16/4004).

Maybe I'm crazy for saying this, but has anyone stopped to think that glossy screens offer the most options for the user? That article was outrageously hateful toward glossy screens and people who use them. Was the writer's parents killed when a truck packed with glossy LCDs rammed their car?

Two words: Screen Protector

And yes, they are amazingly cheap. And yes, I recommend them. And yes, they are most often anti-glare.

Its the best of both worlds, another user friendly choice. You know, easily upgradeable RAM, easily upgradeable storage, easily upgradeable display.

Before anyone shoots back at me; there probably isn't an antiglare film available for the 13in MacBook now, but give it a few weeks. Yeesh.

ejl10
May 17, 2006, 08:27 AM
wheres the best place to get ram for this????

You can play it safe with the memory selector at www.crucial.com, or if you're even a little bit familiar with memory you can get some at www.newegg.com. If you go to Newegg, be sure to check the specs and reviews before you buy.

If you can swing it, get a matched pair 2GB now and never look back. You can sell the original 512MB on Ebay. OS X flies with 2GB. One note, though - matched pairs offer a slight advantage, but I've never seen a system where it was really that significant.

godbout
May 17, 2006, 08:27 AM
3d gaming performance will be weak. Just about anything else, you'll see no lag at all. These machines will do HD video playback without breaking a sweat.

Just make sure you get a gig (or more) of ram. That goes for ANY intel mac.


I thought that, correct me if I am wrong, the excellent performance of HD playback in the macbook pros was primarily due to H.264 decoding that is built into the hardware of the X1600? Will the MB be able to do 1080p? how does the mini perform... I assume the macbook will be exactly the same....

balamw
May 17, 2006, 08:27 AM
Wow, what is that thing? That looks awesome! :) The computer and keyboard are built in together, C-64 style?
1984 vintage ZX Spectrum+ (http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/zxspectrum/specplus.htm)close cousin of the Timex Sinclair 1000 (http://oldcomputers.net/ts1000.html) which was sold in the US.

EDIT beat by red wedge.

B

freeny
May 17, 2006, 08:29 AM
ATTENTION MANUFACTURERS!!!

Grab ahold of this great oppertunity.
People are NOT happy with the "GLOSSY" screens on the new Macbooks.
Start designing and producing attachable "MATTE" films sized for the new screens.

CHEEEEAP!!! $$$$$

Youll make a million!!;)

50548
May 17, 2006, 08:29 AM
1984 vintage ZX Spectrum+ (http://www.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/zxspectrum/specplus.htm)close cousin of the Timex Sinclair 1000 (http://oldcomputers.net/ts1000.html) which was sold in the US.

EDIT beat by red wedge.

B

Yep, and in Brazil it was sold as the TK90X, produced by a company called Microdigital... :)

Mikey Mike
May 17, 2006, 08:29 AM
Wow, what is that thing? That looks awesome! :) The computer and keyboard are built in together, C-64 style? I haven't seen one of these before. Maybe I'm skewed because I like retro-looking computers, but I think the design of this thing really holds up. :) Anyway, as you point out, Apple clearly used it for inspiration for the design of the MacBooks. (Whew, just managed to bring my post back on topic. :D )


My God I feel so old all of a sudden! :eek:

That's a ZX Spectrum by Sinclair. Mr Sinclair the UK Inventor, it was like a competitor to the C-64... I really enjoyed his Sinclair QL with dual Mini Tape Drives and built in Spreadsheet, Word etc... Easy BASIC programming...

But, back to the future... LOVE these new MacBooks, sorry strayed off topic... What a nasty person to post photos and remind me I'm nearly 40!!! :)

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 08:30 AM
http://www.cosam.org/images/spectrum_plus_closeup.jpg

http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/macbookphotos/image/macbook-7.jpg



am I the only one who looks at these pictures and doesnt really think that they are THAT similar?

phatspider
May 17, 2006, 08:30 AM
User replaceable hard drive? Awesome...this is really really nice! I agree with the integrated video decision. It lets Apple make a cheap laptop designed for casual computer users who don't need the extra power. I'm liking this thing and will be ordering one for the wife shortly.


Great - wonder if this user replaceable drive will fid its way to the MBp ever?

.Andy
May 17, 2006, 08:34 AM
Great - wonder if this user replaceable drive will fid its way to the MBp ever?
A true MBP owner would delight at the thought of using his torx screwdriver set.

840quadra
May 17, 2006, 08:36 AM
Meanwhile, Kodawarisan has already posted disassembly photos of the new MacBook.

Congratulations to Kodawarisan, you get a Gold star!

My coworker read that and said (while laughing), "Hey, I am going to buy a new Ferrari, wanna help me take it apart, take pictures, and post it on the web? We will be Webstars!" Granted I understand that the intent may be to help people out on the web, but my guts say they just wanted to "do it first" and become some sort of Pseudo "web" celebrity because of it :rolleyes: .

Chundles
May 17, 2006, 08:37 AM
I thought that, correct me if I am wrong, the excellent performance of HD playback in the macbook pros was primarily due to H.264 decoding that is built into the hardware of the X1600? Will the MB be able to do 1080p? how does the mini perform... I assume the macbook will be exactly the same....

Nah, the GMA950 can do H.264 playback too. The Core Duo Mac mini handles 1080p perfectly according to Macworld, the Core Solo cannot. I would then assume that the even faster MacBook should handle 1080p with aplomb.

godbout
May 17, 2006, 08:38 AM
I just read some reviews of the mini core duo and it looks like these macbooks should not have much of a problem with H.264 so that is good news... I was a little worried becuase my PB can't do HD (I thought that much of it was due to the video card, guess not)


*** Edit ***

Haha beat me to it... thanks!

.Andy
May 17, 2006, 08:39 AM
Congratulations to Kodawarisan, you get a Gold star!

My coworker read that and said (while laughing), "Hey, I am going to buy a new Ferrari, wanna help me take it apart, take pictures, and post it on the web? We will be Webstars!" Granted I understand that the intent may be to help people out on the web, but my guts say they just wanted to "do it first" and become some sort of Pseudo "web" celebrity because of it :rolleyes: .
Don't forget that they'd also rake in heaps in advertising. Would probably pay for their sparkly new machine a few times over. Edit - they've 5 million page hits already.....

Mikey Mike
May 17, 2006, 08:47 AM
A true MBP owner would delight at the thought of using his torx screwdriver set.

:eek: I've just gone thru 3 PBG4 HDD "out of warranty" replacements on failed Toshib@ HDD's 2x15"PB & 1x12"PB

You're a funny guy! :)

miketcool
May 17, 2006, 08:47 AM
A true MBP owner would delight at the thought of using his torx screwdriver set.

Afterall, how many of us were smitten and giddy with the notion of applying are own thermal grease! What fun!

emotion
May 17, 2006, 08:50 AM
:eek: I've just gone thru 3 PBG4 HDD "out of warranty" replacements on failed Toshib@ HDD's 2x15"PB & 1x12"PB

You're a funny guy! :)

I had a Toshiba drive fail in my 12" powerbook too. Luckily I had applecare.

joepunk
May 17, 2006, 08:53 AM
I think they look spiffy. I especially dig the user replaceable hard drive. I have no major say in about the glossy screens as the only experience I have with them is in Best Buy/Circuit City stores. I would still go for the non-glossy screens in the MBP's for Graphic Design work.

Mikey Mike
May 17, 2006, 08:55 AM
I had a Toshiba drive fail in my 12" powerbook too. Luckily I had applecare.

All 3 of mine were from the same company, purchased around the same time, am planning a "what's up" to Apple & Tosh...

:rolleyes: Anyway, these new Mac Books are nice! Stay on topic now...

galton1.3
May 17, 2006, 08:56 AM
Again we see how a massive optical drive takes up all the space in a laptop. Without it you could easily create a 10.6" widescreen subnotebook, but I don't see Apple wanting to move to an external drive, even if in the main it would mean a smaller lighter system.


Sure, but plenty of manufacturers make smaller, lighter notebooks than the MacBook while still including an optical drive. I don't want to get into the game of trying to make a close match in terms of specs, etc., but it's true.

I've been waiting for the MacBook to come out, but now I'm not sure if I'm willing to deal with the size and weight. I've carried my girlfriend's iBook for her one too many times. And this thing is heavier.

There is real demand for a subnote. Shoot, even a (more) thin-and-light. Thin-and-light is classified as 4-6 lbs., right? Apple doesn't want to make anything under 5 lbs.?

mac_airport
May 17, 2006, 08:57 AM
I just got a macbook yesterday and have been waiting for one to come out for nearly 2 months. I waited until after school and went to the palo alto store. There were three macbooks on displays and earlier there were only 2 in the back. The black was sold out but they had white in stock and I ordered the bottom of the line because I knew I could use my brothers DVD player. The screen doesn't bother me because it looks like I'm seeing everything in HD all of the time. The keyboard I like quite a bit because my fingers aren't scrunched together. The keys are narrower and not as tall and slightly spread out. Overall I've noticed only 2 very minor flaws. When you are typing the arrow disappears, I'm not sure whether that's supposed to happen or not. Also one other thing I notice was the scroll does not scroll very fast when clicking on the arrow. I am the daughter of mac_airport.

balamw
May 17, 2006, 08:58 AM
am I the only one who looks at these pictures and doesnt really think that they are THAT similar?
No, you're not alone. For one thing despite it's looks, I'm pretty sure it's not actually a chiclet keyboard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiclet_keyboard).

B

gloss
May 17, 2006, 09:01 AM
Briefly: Screen is gorgeous, keyboard is much better than my old G3 iBook. Installed 2GB of RAM (3 minute operation, max), OSX flies. Will be installing Windows later in the week.

First time using Tiger. Widgets are sexy.

peharri
May 17, 2006, 09:04 AM
They look very nice.

I'm wondering if Ives, who's British, was channeling a little Sir Clive Sinclair with the keyboard. I don't mean that in a bad way, the Sinclair QL keyboard had its problems but it was wonderful to actually type on, one of the best keyboards I've ever used.

EDIT: I'm not the only one (sorry, hit Reply after leaving this thread idle for a bit. That said, the Spectrum version of the QL keyboard was frickin' awful. They looked similar but felt totally different.)

840quadra
May 17, 2006, 09:08 AM
Overall I've noticed only 2 very minor flaws. When you are typing the arrow disappears, I'm not sure whether that's supposed to happen or not.

Yes, this has been a feature of MacOS for quite some time. It is intended to get the cursor out of the way when you are trying to work on a document. When you move the mouse, it is supposed to re-appear.

Congrats on the new Macbook and enjoy your new toy!

interlard
May 17, 2006, 09:10 AM
That arstechnica article sure was written by a patronizing twat.

The key word there is "glossy,"... the scant few Mac users who immediately know what it means... Consider some synonyms... Gleaming. Shiny. Reflective. Now you're getting it.

Gee, thanks for explaining it. Now what does arrogant a**hole mean?

Mikey Mike
May 17, 2006, 09:10 AM
They look very nice.

I'm wondering if Ives, who's British, was channeling a little Sir Clive Sinclair with the keyboard. I don't mean that in a bad way, the Sinclair QL keyboard had its problems but it was wonderful to actually type on, one of the best keyboards I've ever used.

EDIT: I'm not the only one (sorry, hit Reply after leaving this thread idle for a bit. That said, the Spectrum version of the QL keyboard was frickin' awful. They looked similar but felt totally different.)

Wasn't it rubbery, or am I thinking of something else?:confused:

Don't panic
May 17, 2006, 09:12 AM
am I the only one who looks at these pictures and doesnt really think that they are THAT similar?

'course they are similar. they both have keys...

Multimedia
May 17, 2006, 09:13 AM
I see that the MB uses integrated video instead of a dedicated video card. Any idea how much of a performance lag I should expect to see when I get mine this summer?Will MacBook Reject Installing & Running Final Cut Studio Because Of Integrated Graphics? I'm trying to find someone who has both who can confirm or refute this. :eek:

ccrandall77
May 17, 2006, 09:13 AM
I picked up the low-end MacBook last night for my fiancee to replace her aged iBook G4-800. I'm on the waiting list for the high-end model (yes, I am going to pay $155 for black against my better judgement... but I need to know which one is mine so I don't confuse it with my fiancee's).

So far, I've been a tad disappointed with speed. I've had a few too many spinning beach balls, esp with Safari. But that might be because I haven't put in additional RAM yet.

I love the glossy screen... no issues with reflection as I sit here under flourescent lighting.

Runs hot! My PB G4-1.33 is much, much, much cooler.

I wish it was a little smaller and lighter... and I wish the 2 Incase bags we bought for our 12" laptops fit it.

A little disappointed Flip4Mac won't work... guess I'll have to run WinXP on it too. But that was the main reason for the upgrade for me since I need XP for work.

All and all, so far I like the MacBook. Kinda wish I could just stick with the one laptop, but we need to replace both now. I was hoping to get a higher-end model after the next tax return comes in so I could get a latter revision with a Mermon processor that hopefully will run a bit cooler. But despite some of the problems it's a real slick machine.

Multimedia
May 17, 2006, 09:17 AM
wheres the best place to get ram for this????
I like Omni Optival via Ramseeker (http://Ramseeker.com). You use the top popup to search for MacBook Pro ram then click on the PRICE $71.99 to get the link to Omni to buy at that price for each 1GB stick.

ChinamanBob
May 17, 2006, 09:19 AM
My question is...

Do you think the glossy screen is just an overlay like they do on some bigscreen TV's? If so I wonder if it could be removed and get back to the matt finish underneath...? I need some more disassembly photos!! ;)

alec
May 17, 2006, 09:22 AM
Very nice, that means I can purchase a stripped down MacBook, and just PriceWatch / Ramseek some new parts. I'm surprised this release didn't warrant a bigger event, this seems to be one of Apple's better products to date.

Evangelion
May 17, 2006, 09:26 AM
I see that the MB uses integrated video instead of a dedicated video card. Any idea how much of a performance lag I should expect to see when I get mine this summer?

What are you going to compare it to? If you compare it to 12" PowerBook, the MacBook should be faster. Yes, including the graphics.

It seems to me that lots of you guys think that the integrated vid-card means that things will be "slow". Well, this laptop I'm typing this on has Intel 915, a lot slower than the vid-card found on the macBook. And things are not "laggy". Of course, I don't really play with this laptop, but the MacBook should be enough for casual gaming.

jaxstate
May 17, 2006, 09:27 AM
What is casual gaming? I ask because I see this term used so much.
What are you going to compare it to? If you compare it to 12" PowerBook, the MacBook should be faster. Yes, including the graphics.

It seems to me that lots of you guys think that the integrated vid-card means that things will be "slow". Well, this laptop I'm typing this on has Intel 915, a lot slower than the vid-card found on the macBook. And things are not "laggy". Of course, I don't really play with this laptop, but the MacBook should be enough for casual gaming.

joeboy_45101
May 17, 2006, 09:30 AM
I have only one question about the MacBook; where are the speakers?

The previous iBook had the speakers placed on the top of the interior casing above the keyboard.

QPlot
May 17, 2006, 09:31 AM
why all black ? I need to see white ones, though they looks ugly to me too. :eek:

I know powerbook supposed to be cheaper than pro, but I don't like them looking too cheap. Damn, put some fake material man.

myke323
May 17, 2006, 09:31 AM
besides gaming, will the on-board video memory of 64mb also affect things like video and editing and photoshop work as compared to the 128 and 256 graphics cards in the macbookpro? i don't care about gaming, but do care about the vidoe editing and photoshop work... thanks!

Evangelion
May 17, 2006, 09:32 AM
What is casual gaming? I ask because I see this term used so much.

Casual gaming means (IMO) that you play a game or two occasionally. If you are a "casual gamer", you don't buy computers for the sake of plaing games on them. you buy them for other tasks, and maybe sometimes play a game or two.

That said, the Intel-GPU on the MacBook is "fast enough" for gaming. Maybe not for high-settings and the like, but it's perfectly doable.

filterban
May 17, 2006, 09:34 AM
besides gaming, will the on-board video memory of 64mb also affect things like video and editing and photoshop work as compared to the 128 and 256 graphics cards in the macbookpro? i don't care about gaming, but do care about the vidoe editing and photoshop work... thanks!

Well, there have been references to Aperture and Motion either not working or working with limited performance, but others have said that Aperture works great. I'm still looking for a confirmation on it.

As far as Photoshop goes, you should not be able to notice a difference between a GMA950 and any other graphics card. Same with video editing (although the 5400 rpm drive could slow you down some there.)

Evangelion
May 17, 2006, 09:35 AM
besides gaming, will the on-board video memory of 64mb also affect things like video and editing and photoshop work as compared to the 128 and 256 graphics cards in the macbookpro? i don't care about gaming, but do care about the vidoe editing and photoshop work... thanks!

IIRC, the 950 on the MacBook can use more RAM that 64MB. 64MB is the minimium. And since it's faster than the GF5200Go found on the 12" PB, I think that it's "fast enough" for Photoshop.

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 09:51 AM
why all black ? I need to see white ones, though they looks ugly to me too. :eek:

I know powerbook supposed to be cheaper than pro, but I don't like them looking too cheap. Damn, put some fake material man.

Well....I'm certainly confused.

Frozone
May 17, 2006, 09:59 AM
I have only one question about the MacBook; where are the speakers?

The previous iBook had the speakers placed on the top of the interior casing above the keyboard.

In the other long thread someone posted photos of the speakers. They're on the back of the notebook.

michael666
May 17, 2006, 10:01 AM
Wow, the black MacBook doesn't even look like a Mac anymore...to me it does look like an IBM. The user replaceable hard drive sounds like a great idea to make your laptop last even longer now.

Have you ever seen an IBM? They are square and matt-finished (the enclosure).

Kramy
May 17, 2006, 10:05 AM
(yes, I am going to pay $155 for black against my better judgement... but I need to know which one is mine so I don't confuse it with my fiancee's).

You could put a sticker on it Ronnie Johnny :p

galton1.3
May 17, 2006, 10:06 AM
Have you ever seen an IBM? They are square and matt-finished (the enclosure).

The (black) MacBook is rectangular and matte-finished.

myke323
May 17, 2006, 10:09 AM
Casual gaming means (IMO) that you play a game or two occasionally. If you are a "casual gamer", you don't buy computers for the sake of plaing games on them. you buy them for other tasks, and maybe sometimes play a game or two.

That said, the Intel-GPU on the MacBook is "fast enough" for gaming. Maybe not for high-settings and the like, but it's perfectly doable.

IIRC, the 950 on the MacBook can use more RAM that 64MB. 64MB is the minimium. And since it's faster than the GF5200Go found on the 12" PB, I think that it's "fast enough" for Photoshop.

hmmm... if that's the case, then the macbookpro is basically $1000 more for a 15" vs. 13" monitor... could just use that extra $1000 and get a 20" flat panel... don't know though, for things like web design/development and video editing i think the 13" might drive me nuts...

SiliconAddict
May 17, 2006, 10:10 AM
A true MBP owner would delight at the thought of using his torx screwdriver set.


Psst....The MBP uses philips. :)

modernpixel
May 17, 2006, 10:12 AM
User replaceable harddrive? Why doesn't my MacBook Pro have this feature???

Why doesn't my MacBook Pro have that SO MUCH BETTER closing mechanism??? Instead of the impossible-to-push-without-fingernails latch button.

I'm interested to see this "glossy screen" in person - it doesn't sound like something that would be a positive feature. I wonder if it makes it impossible to use anywhere near a direct light source or outside?

The black book looks surprisingly blah. I think going with a matte black was a bad idea - it looks really cheap and much like every other generic notebook. I think making a black one in general isn't a bad idea - but it should have had a more interesting surface texture to set it apart. The fact that they are charging more for it is laughably Applesque.

The keyboard looks interesting, I'd like to try it out. I see Apple still hasn't made the capslock key smaller, it's such a ridiculous size - I always hit it when I go for the A key.

For those that have seen it --- where does the MacBook vent from? I have visions of melting plastic.

Joe

Multimedia
May 17, 2006, 10:16 AM
I have only one question about the MacBook; where are the speakers?They are on the REAR ENDS about one inch wide set of 6 vertical grill openings and when the screen is open they BOUNCE off the screen right at you. :p

"The speakers have been moved to the back edge where the hinge is located. The sound bounces off the screen toward the user with the screen open. With the screen closed and the MB running, the speakers are exposed so you can hear the sounds better. Nice design!" (http://home.earthlink.net/~macbook/id2.html)

Can anyone tell me if Final Cut Studio will run on the MacBook? I can't find any reference to anyone doing this so far.

And here is a set of super small file size - web optimized - pics that show what I mean.

dornoforpyros
May 17, 2006, 10:17 AM
Well I guess the question of "will people pay $150 more for a black Macbook" has been answered seeing as I haven't seen any pics of white ones yet

zelet
May 17, 2006, 10:21 AM
Nah, the GMA950 can do H.264 playback too. The Core Duo Mac mini handles 1080p perfectly according to Macworld, the Core Solo cannot. I would then assume that the even faster MacBook should handle 1080p with aplomb.


That is completely wrong. I have a core duo with 2GB of ram and 1080 is a little choppy. The GMA950 isn't a bad chip... but it falls far from "good." If you do get anything with the 950 don't expect to play somewhat recent (as of Doom 3) 3d games or 1080 h.264 video at acceptable quality.

emotion
May 17, 2006, 10:23 AM
User replaceable harddrive? Why doesn't my MacBook Pro have this feature???

Why doesn't my MacBook Pro have that SO MUCH BETTER closing mechanism??? Instead of the impossible-to-push-without-fingernails latch button.

I'm interested to see this "glossy screen" in person - it doesn't sound like something that would be a positive feature. I wonder if it makes it impossible to use anywhere near a direct light source or outside?

The black book looks surprisingly blah. I think going with a matte black was a bad idea - it looks really cheap and much like every other generic notebook. I think making a black one in general isn't a bad idea - but it should have had a more interesting surface texture to set it apart. The fact that they are charging more for it is laughably Applesque.

The keyboard looks interesting, I'd like to try it out. I see Apple still hasn't made the capslock key smaller, it's such a ridiculous size - I always hit it when I go for the A key.

For those that have seen it --- where does the MacBook vent from? I have visions of melting plastic.

Joe

I think the MBP was only ever an interim model. The real replacement for the Powerbook will come when merom/core 2 based pro laptops are released.

We're 3 or 4 months away from that.

Stridder44
May 17, 2006, 10:28 AM
Im really happy about these MacBooks. Maybe I'll pick one up when this broke college student has some money...

netmonkey
May 17, 2006, 10:37 AM
I've seen some comparison shots of the macbook vs the pb 12", but what I'd really like to see is a comparison between it and the ibook and the mbp 15" in all dimensions (width, height, depth) just to get a feel of the overall size. Too bad that there isn't an Apple store near here, and the resellers take weeks to get anything. :(

Stridder44
May 17, 2006, 10:38 AM
Overall I've noticed only 2 very minor flaws. When you are typing the arrow disappears, I'm not sure whether that's supposed to happen or not.



Bob sagat!! I never noticed that!

live4ever
May 17, 2006, 10:39 AM
am I the only one who looks at these pictures and doesnt really think that they are THAT similar?

It looks more like a Z88 to me.

http://www.silicium.org/images/catalog/calc/z88.jpg

MacBookDJ
May 17, 2006, 10:46 AM
That is completely wrong. I have a core duo with 2GB of ram and 1080 is a little choppy.

Hmmm... my Core duo mini with 1GB of RAM plays back 1080 just fine (not choppy). I haven't tested a MacBook yet, but I would expect it to be equal or better.

alexf
May 17, 2006, 10:48 AM
Boy, that black MacBook really is ugly! (Maybe my opinion will change when I see it in real life, but I doubt it)

Why in the world would a Mac-lover be willing to pay a premium to get a laptop that looks far more like a generic PC than anything Apple has made since 1998?

If it were shiny black, like an iPod nano, it may be more acceptable but that matte black finish sure looks cheapo la Dell... :eek:

Just my 2...

gloss
May 17, 2006, 10:49 AM
I've seen some comparison shots of the macbook vs the pb 12", but what I'd really like to see is a comparison between it and the ibook and the mbp 15" in all dimensions (width, height, depth) just to get a feel of the overall size. Too bad that there isn't an Apple store near here, and the resellers take weeks to get anything. :(

In my opinion, it's not tiny, but it is thinner than I was expecting. It's pretty hefty for its size, though. It weighs more than you'd think it would by looking at it. Obviously a pretty dense design.

More compact than the previous iBook, if that's any help. As tall as a 12-inch but nearly as wide as a 14-inch. Thinner than either.

gloss
May 17, 2006, 10:49 AM
Boy, that black MacBook really is ugly! (Maybe my opinion will change when I see it in real life, but I doubt it)

Why in the world would a Mac-lover be willing to pay a premium to get a laptop that looks far more like a generic PC than anything Apple has made since 1998?

If it were shiny black, like an iPod nano, it may be more acceptable but that matte black finish sure looks cheapo la Dell... :eek:

Just my 2...

Looks better in person.

sunfast
May 17, 2006, 10:50 AM
Boy, that black MacBook really is ugly! (Maybe my opinion will change when I see it in real life, but I doubt it)

Why in the world would a Mac-lover be willing to pay a premium to get a laptop that looks far more like a generic PC than anything Apple has made since 1998?

If it were shiny black, like an iPod nano, it may be more acceptable but that matte black finish sure looks cheapo la Dell... :eek:

Just my 2...

I have the same initial reaction as you - after all the 3 year old rubbish work Dell laptop next to me is Matt Black.

But I'm going to reserve judgement until I see it for real.

ChrisA
May 17, 2006, 10:51 AM
I see that the MB uses integrated video instead of a dedicated video card. ?

They never put video cards in notebooks, Graphics is always integrated to the logic board. The real difference is that the Macbook uses shared system RAM and not a dedicated video RAM. Small point but you can't talk about how a design feature might impact performance unless you understand the design at some level of detail. The bottle neck in graphic processing will likely be RAM bandwidth and will impact applacations that use large texture maps basically 3d games

ImAlwaysRight
May 17, 2006, 10:51 AM
http://home.earthlink.net/~macbook/

At the above link you will find the photos I have posted of my MacBook showing:

- hard drive install
- speakers
- sleep light
- battery lights/rubber foot
- System Profiler report

Nothing too exciting, and I tried not to repeat what Apple stock photos already show. The ease of the hard drive install is a big plus in this MacBook.

Time for me to transfer my apps and stop reading these forums! Send me a PM if you have questions, as there is no way I can keep up with these threads to answer questions (be sure to check the above site as it may answer your questions!)

alexf
May 17, 2006, 11:00 AM
Looks better in person.

I certainly hope so, but I have looked at essentially every picture I could find so far online and they all look very unattractive.

Of course, this is a personal opinion - and I know some people are really into the black computer thing for some reason (looks much more "masculine" than white), but I still cannot get over the idea that a black matte computer seems to go against all of Apple's aesthetic principles. Plus, don't Mac users often like to let the world (or at least the people in the caf) know that they have an Apple? If it weren't for the illuminated Apple logo on the back, from a distance this computer would "blend in" and look like every other boring business-oriented laptop out there.

The Mac that it most resembles is the Powerbook G3, but even that computer had interesting distinguishing curves that set it apart from other PCs, instead of the monotonous square shape of the MacBook. But - in any case - that computer design is now 8 years old!

iEric
May 17, 2006, 11:01 AM
i thought i would like the black cause i was pushing for one for so long, but it's kinda ugly because it makes it so cheap.

the keyboard buttons look so ghetto. it's like the buttons on my remote control. and why do they have space between them?

the glossy screen should be an option. i hate glossy - i had that on the sony vaio 13" laptop too and it had a glossy screen and I HATED IT!

iHateGates
May 17, 2006, 11:05 AM
I was hoping for a small laptop with the glowing keys. That's such a great feature. Frontrow is not imprortant to me. 15" is too big for me. I don't like all these reports that they're running hot just like the MBP. I just ditched a my gateway laptop, I have a G5 iMac, and I'd like one of my computers to have up to date chip technology in case they stop supporting it in 3-5 years. I'll have to drive an hour and a half to check them out in person. If they don't grab me, I may just take a leftover 12" i or Pbook from one of you junkies that needs the latest greatest thing. My girlfriend has a 13.5 widescreen compaq laptop that is absolutely beautiful. Overall, I'm kind of underwhelmed, that may change when I see it.

50548
May 17, 2006, 11:06 AM
http://home.earthlink.net/~macbook/

At the above link you will find the photos I have posted of my MacBook showing:

- hard drive install
- speakers
- sleep light
- battery lights/rubber foot
- System Profiler report

Nothing too exciting, and I tried not to repeat what Apple stock photos already show. The ease of the hard drive install is a big plus in this MacBook.

Time for me to transfer my apps and stop reading these forums! Send me a PM if you have questions, as there is no way I can keep up with these threads to answer questions (be sure to check the above site as it may answer your questions!)

Thanks for sharing them, it's pretty interesting...I may just say one thing...the white MacBook looks WONDERFUL!

Now where do I get the money to replace my iBook G3? :rolleyes:

michael666
May 17, 2006, 11:07 AM
The (black) MacBook is rectangular and matte-finished.

I have to apologize. My first opinion was that they were glossy like the black iPods, which is apparently not true.

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 11:17 AM
Boy, that black MacBook really is ugly! (Maybe my opinion will change when I see it in real life, but I doubt it)

Why in the world would a Mac-lover be willing to pay a premium to get a laptop that looks far more like a generic PC than anything Apple has made since 1998?

If it were shiny black, like an iPod nano, it may be more acceptable but that matte black finish sure looks cheapo la Dell... :eek:

Just my 2...


I have a feeling that if the black MB were more like the nano, it would scratch much to easily even when used normally, much like the nano itself...



I could be wrong though.

QPlot
May 17, 2006, 11:18 AM
Boy, that black MacBook really is ugly! (Maybe my opinion will change when I see it in real life, but I doubt it)

Why in the world would a Mac-lover be willing to pay a premium to get a laptop that looks far more like a generic PC than anything Apple has made since 1998?

If it were shiny black, like an iPod nano, it may be more acceptable but that matte black finish sure looks cheapo la Dell... :eek:

Just my 2...

this is the first thought I had when I say the picture. Man, now I have to decide which one to choose, white, black or cheaper one, lOL

balamw
May 17, 2006, 11:23 AM
Can anyone tell me if Final Cut Studio will run on the MacBook? I can't find any reference to anyone doing this so far.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2419475&highlight=final+cut#post2419475

B

Multimedia
May 17, 2006, 11:23 AM
http://home.earthlink.net/~macbook/

At the above link you will find the photos I have posted of my MacBook showing:

- hard drive install
- speakers
- sleep light
- battery lights/rubber foot
- System Profiler report

Nothing too exciting, and I tried not to repeat what Apple stock photos already show. The ease of the hard drive install is a big plus in this MacBook.

Time for me to transfer my apps and stop reading these forums! Send me a PM if you have questions, as there is no way I can keep up with these threads to answer questions (be sure to check the above site as it may answer your questions!)Great Job ImAlwaysRight! I Put Your Speaker Pics On Page 4 Post #95. I cropped and web optimized them for my post on Speakers. Hope you don't mind. :)

peharri
May 17, 2006, 11:24 AM
Wasn't it rubbery, or am I thinking of something else?:confused:

Yeah, more or less. The Spectrum+ keys were harder to press and had less feedback. The QL keys, by comparison, were very light and had a definite (if inaudable) click-type feedback.

I could type really fast on the QL, it was much nicer than people expected. Still had some Sinclair idiosyncracies though, such as the lack of a "delete"/"backspace" key. (You had to use CTRL + Left arrow instead. Wierd.)

Multimedia
May 17, 2006, 11:33 AM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2419475&highlight=final+cut#post2419475

BExtreeme Thanks B. :) It's on Page 61 Post #1515 of the MacBooks Released Thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2419475&highlight=final+cut#post2419475).

flir67
May 17, 2006, 11:36 AM
Psst....The MBP uses philips. :)


LOL..... that was funny

Shaun.P
May 17, 2006, 11:36 AM
What are the capacities of the batteries? On the 14" iBook it is 4400mAh.

legacyb4
May 17, 2006, 11:38 AM
Agreed. However, I do wish that they had made the black model the "top model" without the price premium for only the color. For example, you could BTO the white model to match the spec, but you could only buy the Black MB fully loaded; in other words, the color denotes the high end spec but you aren't necessarily penalized for the color itself.

"Meanwhile, Kodawarisan has already posted disassembly photos of the new MacBook."
I just dont get it whay would you take apart such a pretty thing...

Dangit i had my heart set on the 17 and then paiting it jet black, but these new mac are so pretty. I think they have the "Come Buy Me" shade of black...:rolleyes:

sainteven
May 17, 2006, 11:39 AM
After reading all of the good and bad reviews on the "glossy" MacBook screen, I think I'm just going to bite the bullet and go with it. I'm no professional graphic designer, nor am I a graphic designer of any level. And I feel pretty confident that my uses for the computer will cope well with the computer's shiny screen.

I plan on spending 5% of my computer time outdoors (if even that much), and I think I'll manage the glare indoors. Hopefully.

Let's all pray that I'm not making an awful decision.

CrackedButter
May 17, 2006, 11:40 AM
Personally I think the new iBooks suck. Normally I hold judgement on such things and let all the other more "professional" whiners do it for me. Not that I am whining of course, I'm simply saying I don't like them. I'm not saying Apple can burn in hell or anything either. This revision just doesn't cater to me this time.

The screen looks interesting, in both resolution and this new gloss finish and I like the new upgradability to the MB's.

The one thing that does tickle me is the weight, I was hoping for something lighter and I expect it in a new revision of a popular model. Then again I expected the original Alubooks' to be lighter after the TiBooks. I want a less heavier laptop basically. A newer 12" MacBook Pro to be precise if it were possible with all the trimmings. But I don't want a laptop with seperate optical drive and such nonsense. Its gotta be done the Apple way, all in one.

The good news for me is, I was going to keep this Ibook G4 anyway regardless of what happens (nobody believes me, my friends and all, they think I will sell it but thats because they all bloody want it!!!). This is light enough for the moment and I will wait until Apple does a laptop that fits with my idea of being "better". I'm in the market for a new mac (even a desktop mac) for my uni course this year but can hold out for another 16 months if need be. Who knows what then when the newer processors start rolling off the production line.

Aldus
May 17, 2006, 11:41 AM
What are the chances that this rev.A MacBook will take 2GB or 4GB memory modules when they're available in the future? I realize that Apple says max 2GB - but this limit may be based solely on current module availability (as was indeed the case with my revB bondi iMac back in the day).

Can the "bus" (sorry, but I'm definitely a non-techie) - or whatever determines memory limits - accomodate more than 2 Gigs?

Ordered a white one yesterday :)

Shaun.P
May 17, 2006, 11:45 AM
I don't think so. The processor word size (which is 32 bits) determines how much memory you can install. i.e. the Dual PowerMac is a 64-bit processor and can support 8GB (4GB for each 64bit Processor) the Quad can hold 16gb.

So I think the answer is no.

And the CoreDuo is not the same as a Dual Processor. Although the CoreDuo is two processors, they are working on the same chip, or something like that. I'm not 100% certain but it goes something like that.

kerpow
May 17, 2006, 11:45 AM
Odd that Boot Camp hasn't been prepared for the MB's release. Probably just a matter of time.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/publicbeta.html

bommai
May 17, 2006, 11:46 AM
hmmm... if that's the case, then the macbookpro is basically $1000 more for a 15" vs. 13" monitor... could just use that extra $1000 and get a 20" flat panel... don't know though, for things like web design/development and video editing i think the 13" might drive me nuts...

You can get a 24" Dell LCD for $650 with coupons now a days! You can get the 20" Dell LCD for under $400.

ImAlwaysRight
May 17, 2006, 11:48 AM
What are the capacities of the batteries? On the 14" iBook it is 4400mAh.
The battery says 55 Wh, which I assume would be 5500mAh. I remember my system profiler reported my battery as just under 5200 mAh.

The one thing that does tickle me is the weight, I was hoping for something lighter
You seriously are complaining about a few ounces? :confused: Especially when you look at this comparison:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/images/content/macbook-12compare.jpg

alexf
May 17, 2006, 11:52 AM
I have a feeling that if the black MB were more like the nano, it would scratch much to easily even when used normally, much like the nano itself...

I could be wrong though.

Yes, this was what I was thinking too... I have a feeling that Steve wanted to make the black glossy, but feared the backlash that happened with the nano, as glossy black would show scratches incredibly easily.

In any case, I still think they should have bitten the bullet and made them glossy, as they would be much more attractive and "Apple-like" - and would sell better. Again, to me the black MacBook looks like about the most boring, ugly, and PC-like laptop Apple has released in 8+ years.

QPlot
May 17, 2006, 11:59 AM
I was hoping for a small laptop with the glowing keys. That's such a great feature. Frontrow is not imprortant to me. 15" is too big for me. I don't like all these reports that they're running hot just like the MBP. I just ditched a my gateway laptop, I have a G5 iMac, and I'd like one of my computers to have up to date chip technology in case they stop supporting it in 3-5 years. I'll have to drive an hour and a half to check them out in person. If they don't grab me, I may just take a leftover 12" i or Pbook from one of you junkies that needs the latest greatest thing. My girlfriend has a 13.5 widescreen compaq laptop that is absolutely beautiful. Overall, I'm kind of underwhelmed, that may change when I see it.

glowing key with black case might be a good combination, but only black seems dirty cheap as h(D)ell.

Core Trio
May 17, 2006, 12:02 PM
Yes, this was what I was thinking too... I have a feeling that Steve wanted to make the black glossy, but feared the backlash that happened with the nano, as glossy black would show scratches incredibly easily.

In any case, I still think they should have bitten the bullet and made them glossy, as they would be much more attractive and "Apple-like" - and would sell better. Again, to me the black MacBook looks like about the most boring, ugly, and PC-like laptop Apple has released in 8+ years.


Then again that could have created a new product much like the ipod did. MacBook socks! That would surely deter a class action suit

Garissimo
May 17, 2006, 12:03 PM
The battery says 55 Wh, which I assume would be 5500mAh. I remember my system profiler reported my battery as just under 5200 mAh.


You seriously are complaining about a few ounces? :confused: Especially when you look at this comparison:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/images/content/macbook-12compare.jpg

While I like Apple's trend towards slimmer laptops, I agree with the poster who complained about the weight gain. My Powerbook G4 (12") is ~4.7lbs versus a claimed 5.2lbs for the new Macbook. It doesn't seem like much, but it's a step in the wrong direction.

With more efficient displays and CPUs, you'd expect weight loss to be one of the benefits.

alexf
May 17, 2006, 12:03 PM
Personally I think the new iBooks suck. Normally I hold judgement on such things and let all the other more "professional" whiners do it for me. Not that I am whining of course, I'm simply saying I don't like them. I'm not saying Apple can burn in hell or anything either. This revision just doesn't cater to me this time.

The screen looks interesting, in both resolution and this new gloss finish and I like the new upgradability to the MB's.

The one thing that does tickle me is the weight, I was hoping for something lighter and I expect it in a new revision of a popular model. Then again I expected the original Alubooks' to be lighter after the TiBooks. I want a less heavier laptop basically. A newer 12" MacBook Pro to be precise if it were possible with all the trimmings. But I don't want a laptop with seperate optical drive and such nonsense. Its gotta be done the Apple way, all in one.

The good news for me is, I was going to keep this Ibook G4 anyway regardless of what happens (nobody believes me, my friends and all, they think I will sell it but thats because they all bloody want it!!!). This is light enough for the moment and I will wait until Apple does a laptop that fits with my idea of being "better". I'm in the market for a new mac (even a desktop mac) for my uni course this year but can hold out for another 16 months if need be. Who knows what then when the newer processors start rolling off the production line.

I agree, although I would not go quite so far as to say that they downright "suck."

However, those of us that were expecting something revolutionary in terms of size and weight have been sorely disappointed. Why, for instance, must they have a thick border around the screen - which adds more width and height - instead of a thin one like the MacBook Pros?

Yes, yes, I know some may answer that it is because this is a "consumer" notebook and it would have been more expensive to fit everything into a smaller enclosure, but nonetheless, this is what many were expecting, especially as laptops are supposed to get smaller with each release, and not stay the same size (it has been 5 years since the release of the previous 12" iBook design, and these are about the same size and weight proportional to the screen size).

The rumors were all about a "radical form factor redesign," but the appearance, size, and weight of these new iBooks - er, MacBooks, that is - is nothing radical nor revolutionary.

In short: they could have been worse, but nonetheless this highly anticipated release leaves me disappointed.

dongmin
May 17, 2006, 12:03 PM
My observations (from the photos):

1. The battery is HUGE! It looks to be almost twice the size of the old iBook battery, and yet only 2.5 hours of DVD playback (my iBook used to get about 2 hours). The Core Duo and the brighter, bigger monitor is sucking down a lot of juice.

2. I'm amazed at how compact the motherboard is. If you take out the optical drive, use a smaller battery, and a 1.8" HDD, you'd get a super compact ultraportable.

3. I'm a little disappointed by the overall dimensions of the MacBooks. Thinner is nice, but it looks to be quite a bit winder than the old. I'm starting to agree about the need for an ultraportable.

LSS
May 17, 2006, 12:04 PM
Does MacBook have the two-fingers-on-the-trackpad for right-click option as the 17" MBP has?

Clix Pix
May 17, 2006, 12:11 PM
If it were shiny black, like an iPod nano....

That's what I was thinking, too -- I'd love to have seen a shiny black MacBook -- I'm disappointed!

Hey, maybe they'll come out with a subnotebook, say a two-pound 10-incher in shiny black or shiny white to match the iPods! I'd snap one of those up in a heartbeat.

galton1.3
May 17, 2006, 12:11 PM
Does MacBook have the two-fingers-on-the-trackpad for right-click option as the 17" MBP has?

The answer is yes.

swindmill
May 17, 2006, 12:14 PM
Does MacBook have the two-fingers-on-the-trackpad for right-click option as the 17" MBP has?

That sounds like an excellent option. If it's possible to implement third party software for the older 'books, I'd love to see it done.

myke323
May 17, 2006, 12:14 PM
You can get a 24" Dell LCD for $650 with coupons now a days! You can get the 20" Dell LCD for under $400.ya i knew they weren't 1,000 but just used that figure coz that was the saving bewtween the 2 models... so i should ad that you would have quite a bit leftover to buy more toys...

also, are the dell LCDs as nice as the apple ones? i have an apple one at work and its amazing...

ChrashM
May 17, 2006, 12:17 PM
Just returned from the Apple Store to look at the new MacBooks and was not impressed by the glossy displays. The reflection drove me nuts after about one minute. The black MacBook looks the coolest but is not worth an extra $200. Time will tell if Apple reconsiders their strategy on both of these decisions.

alexf
May 17, 2006, 12:19 PM
Hey, maybe they'll come out with a subnotebook, say a two-pound 10-incher in shiny black or shiny white to match the iPods! I'd snap one of those up in a heartbeat.

Yes, I would buy one in an instant also (financial situation permitting)! However, I doubt it will happen. :(

The size and weight of the new MacBooks is really disappointing.

gloss
May 17, 2006, 12:26 PM
Just returned from the Apple Store to look at the new MacBooks and was not impressed by the glossy displays. The reflection drove me nuts after about one minute. The black MacBook looks the coolest but is not worth an extra $200. Time will tell if Apple reconsiders their strategy on both of these decisions.

In my use so far the glossy display isn't bad at all. Assuming you're looking at the screen straight on and there's not an inordinate amount of bright lighting, it's rather nice.

I suppose opinions will vary depending on people's native environments.

swindmill
May 17, 2006, 12:27 PM
Can anyone comment on the build quality of the macbook compared to the ibook and the powerbook. One of my biggest gripes about the ibook was the poor build quality.

dialectician
May 17, 2006, 12:27 PM
As the proud owner of a new MacBook (base model), I can say with authority that the screen is amazing, and the keyboard is very nice as well. I'll probably end up upgrading the hard drive at some point, once a 100GB or 120GB drops in price and I'm able to afford it.

I did want to know, what exactly is the advantage of paired vs unpaired RAM in these MacBooks? I can obviously upgrade the RAM cheaper with just one 1GB stick, but if the advantage is enough, I may wait and get two sticks.

jW

How does the screen perform in high light situation, like when the sun is shining through the window?

doccutter
May 17, 2006, 12:28 PM
Can anyone tell from Kodiwarisan's pictures if they're finally putting the paste on correctly?

bigbossbmb
May 17, 2006, 12:33 PM
That sounds like an excellent option. If it's possible to implement third party software for the older 'books, I'd love to see it done.

yes, i have it on my 12" pb...
http://www-users.kawo2.rwth-aachen.de/~razzfazz/iscroll2/

this driver gives scrolling and the two finger click option

gloss
May 17, 2006, 12:34 PM
Can anyone comment on the build quality of the macbook compared to the ibook and the powerbook. One of my biggest gripes about the ibook was the poor build quality.

They're being built by Asus, who has a reputation for making bullet-proof machines. Mine seems very sturdy. I'm becoming very fond of the keyboard, as unorthodox as it looks.

galton1.3
May 17, 2006, 12:34 PM
Engadget has a hands-on with the MacBook posted:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/17/hands-on-with-the-apple-macbook/

Of note:
They describe the display as being "less glossy than a Sony."
Some good pics too.

tf843364
May 17, 2006, 12:36 PM
Nah, the GMA950 can do H.264 playback too. The Core Duo Mac mini handles 1080p perfectly according to Macworld, the Core Solo cannot. I would then assume that the even faster MacBook should handle 1080p with aplomb.
Thank you, finally someone who knows something.
You are all integratedist. Integrated Graphics are just that, a graphics chipset on the motherboard intead of stuck on a slot.
Technically there is nothing stopping them from being just as good as a 7900gt. However, no chipset is that good. They are made to be cheap and "Good enough"
That said, the GMA950 is a GOOD chipset!!! I'd say its comparable to a Nvidia 6600, except that its only got 64 megabytes of memory (shared)
The core* signature is like centrino, meaning that it has requirements.
One of them is the RAM, which is DDR2-667. Its FAST. Way faster than what does come on a 6600 card.
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/
before you knock it, research.

ImAlwaysRight
May 17, 2006, 12:43 PM
I found this pict of a black MacBook. Look at the greasy-looking track pad. Don't know if that is typical of the black model, or that user was just eating french fries or something.

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/7597/blackkeyboard7rf.jpg


While I like Apple's trend towards slimmer laptops, I agree with the poster who complained about the weight gain. My Powerbook G4 (12") is ~4.7lbs versus a claimed 5.2lbs for the new Macbook. It doesn't seem like much, but it's a step in the wrong direction.

With more efficient displays and CPUs, you'd expect weight loss to be one of the benefits.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why the 17" MBP weighs more than any of these laptops. And no Radeon X1800 in the MacBook? And why not price this obviously consumer laptop at $899? Apple could have done that. Think of all the sales they are missing out on ... :confused: :rolleyes:

tf843364
May 17, 2006, 12:47 PM
That is completely wrong. I have a core duo with 2GB of ram and 1080 is a little choppy. The GMA950 isn't a bad chip... but it falls far from "good." If you do get anything with the 950 don't expect to play somewhat recent (as of Doom 3) 3d games or 1080 h.264 video at acceptable quality.
The 950 is a 64 megabyte chip, minimum.
This means that by default it takes 64 megabytes of your memory and steals it for its own use. When you have only stock 512 that is a good ratio.
When you have 2 gigs, that chages things. you can set the card to use just 128, up to 224 megabytes of memory. That should leave you plenty, over 1.5 gigs.
OSX may automatically do this, in which case im an idiot. I'd check that though.

iChill
May 17, 2006, 12:57 PM
tomarow i am going to pick up my WHITE macbook. i have nothing against the black however, but the remote and cables are white.

i am hoping for WHEN they release the black iMac or whatever they shall call it, that there will be black cables. as well as a black headfones for the ipod i think they would be sweet.

CrackedButter
May 17, 2006, 12:57 PM
The battery says 55 Wh, which I assume would be 5500mAh. I remember my system profiler reported my battery as just under 5200 mAh.


You seriously are complaining about a few ounces? :confused: Especially when you look at this comparison:

http://www.macworld.com/2006/05/images/content/macbook-12compare.jpg

I'm not complaining, I said it tickled me. I don't care for the comparision either, it is what it is, a heavier machine. I'm not a weakling either, I carry around a lot of heavy stuff everyday, even when I'm not at work.

I have my preferences.

Jawbreaker
May 17, 2006, 12:58 PM
I just played with the MacBooks at Westfarms for about an hour. I already have a white 1.83ghz on order, so this wasn't about dealbreaking so much, but I was very wary of the glossy screen and keyboard so I wanted to see them in person.

Photos seem to overstate the gloss of the screen, in my opinion. The first thing you notice is not the gloss, but rather that the screen is significantly brighter and more clear than the iBook G4 (I have previously owned 2) or the PowerBook G4. I was surprised by its quality and while there is some glare, it's worth noting that the Apple Store practically has a glowing ceiling, unlike most homes, so if that's what your workspace is like, you may take concern, but otherwise it should be fine. I am curious how it performs outdoors, but let's be honest, the iBook's matte screen was pretty much illegible outdoors too on account of being so dreadfully dark.

The keyboard takes some getting used to but all in all I liked it. The keys' action is more responsive than the iBook and there is none of the squishiness that made me always worry my typing would break the iBook. If I watched my hands I became confused by the spaces between the keys, but if I was typing normally, ie. not staring at the keyboard, it worked fine. My memory of my 12" PowerBook G4 makes me think this new keyboard is not quite its equal, but I was just fiddling with a friend's 15" G4 and the MacBook's keyboard is certainly superior to that one - the G4 keys have nice action but feel flimsy.

The magnetic latch is awesome, and reminds me of one of my favorite features of my tangerine clamshell. Build quality in general seems much better than the iBook G4, which was, in my view, a real drop from the original Dual USB iBook G3 - whose first incarnation was one of the finest machines I've ever used, all logic board problems aside.

The weight of the MacBook is quite good given its size, and so it's the size that is slightly disappointing, as it is much more on the scale of the 14" iBook than the 12". However, I have no qualms about the dimensions that have grown, and am more excited by how slim it is - the other things that occupy my bag are books, usually, so the thinner the laptop is, the more space for other things; whereas depth and width are not occupying space I could have ever used for other storage anyway.

Sadly the display models have no games installed so I couldn't try out the GMA950. As soon as my order arrives I will give it a thorough test in World of Warcraft, with comparison to my 1.83ghz iMac and my old 1.33ghz iBook G4. The Radeon 9550 is nothing to write home about in WoW so I am curious how the MacBook will compare.

Incidentally, after seeing them in person, the black MacBook is really sharp. The cosmetic problem with the white ones is that the keys match the outside of the laptop and not the slightly grey interior material. On the black models, the keys are the same color as everything else. I have to say the design on the white MacBook is somewhat distracting. But I wouldn't plunk that kind of money just for the color, sorry.

Balli
May 17, 2006, 12:58 PM
Does this mean that Apple Stores can now upgrade your hard drive (like they do with RAM) when you buy one there?

CrackedButter
May 17, 2006, 01:06 PM
I agree, although I would not go quite so far as to say that they downright "suck."

However, those of us that were expecting something revolutionary in terms of size and weight have been sorely disappointed. Why, for instance, must they have a thick border around the screen - which adds more width and height - instead of a thin one like the MacBook Pros?

Yes, yes, I know some may answer that it is because this is a "consumer" notebook and it would have been more expensive to fit everything into a smaller enclosure, but nonetheless, this is what many were expecting, especially as laptops are supposed to get smaller with each release, and not stay the same size (it has been 5 years since the release of the previous 12" iBook design, and these are about the same size and weight proportional to the screen size).

The rumors were all about a "radical form factor redesign," but the appearance, size, and weight of these new iBooks - er, MacBooks, that is - is nothing radical nor revolutionary.

In short: they could have been worse, but nonetheless this highly anticipated release leaves me disappointed.

Maybe I was being harsh there, but with my one issue, these new laptops don't interest me, I'd like to see some level of progression with these products other than in terms of processing power or screen aesthetics.

One machine I really loved a few years back when it was introduced was the Sharp Murmansa (I think that was the correct spelling.) It was 1cm thick (thats with the lid down!!) and the designers cleverly hid the internal battery, had a great 12 or 14 inch screen. The downside to it was besides the HD, all the other drives were external and an optional extra, I don't like external components unless I buy them, for example, I have 2 external firewire drives plugged into my laptop.

The battery incidentally run through the spine of the laptop, the bit where the screen hinge is attached to the main board part of the laptop. It was small and round plus the AC plug plugged into it right where the hinge would be.

Now, if Apple can be bothered to consistently downsize the iPod with each release then they should be able to take some weight out of their laptop products. They'd happily take 1mm of thickness from an iPod but not respond accordingly to their other portables.

They even downsized the iMac as well and nobody complained about the weight issue to begin with anyway.

bis01005
May 17, 2006, 01:14 PM
I see that the MACBOOK contains the following video specs:

GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

I went to Intel and looked the board over and it seems the board can handle more RAM.

"Dynamic Video Memory Technology (DVMT) 3.0 supports up to 224MB of video memory; system memory is allocated where it is needed dynamically."

Is it possible to add the 224MB to the MACBOOK somehow?

Windowlicker
May 17, 2006, 01:18 PM
The MacBooks are so full of features... will they cannibalise MacBook Pro sales? :confused:

I feel the distinction between the models is now made the right way. You can have screen spanning and sound in etc in the consumer laptop as well, but it all comes down to the graphics chip. You don't do any 3d stuff with it, neither many other graphic intensive tasks.

A big minus goes to the glossy screen ;P

thenulls
May 17, 2006, 01:20 PM
My only concern in regards to buying one of these right away is the new wireless "N" standard coming up quickly. Anyone know if the Airport cards in these are replaceable?

Garissimo
May 17, 2006, 01:22 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why the 17" MBP weighs more than any of these laptops. :confused: :rolleyes: Look at the photo comparing your 12.1" vs. the 13.3" MacBook again if you have having trouble understanding the slight weight gain.

I don't have "trouble understanding" the weight gain, captain obvious, I'm pointing out that the trend is in wrong direction.

I'd like to see next generation laptops weigh the same or less than the outgoing models and run cooler.

While the new Macbook vs. old Powerbook G4 12" is not an Apples to Apples comparison, a lot of people wanting to upgrade from the Powerbook G4 12" are going to compare the two because it's the smallest form factor Apple has right now.

bosrs1
May 17, 2006, 01:22 PM
I think it's more concerns with the reflective nature of the screens. Some consider them unacceptable when in a moderate-high light situation.

edit: beaten by speedy-pants ^^^^
I personally consider them unacceptable period. One of the draws of Macs was that they had kept the matte finish. Glossy screens produce wicked bad glare in even low light environments like an office.

Also the integrated graphics are a big concern for me.

matticus008
May 17, 2006, 01:37 PM
With more efficient displays and CPUs, you'd expect weight loss to be one of the benefits.
Why? It's not like either of those components contribute significantly to the weight of the machine. The heavy part is the battery, followed by the case (it seems to still have a sturdy magnesium frame in it). The only way to save weight is to have a lighter battery or an all-plastic case. The new computers require more power, hence a heavier battery.

bommai
May 17, 2006, 01:38 PM
ya i knew they weren't 1,000 but just used that figure coz that was the saving bewtween the 2 models... so i should ad that you would have quite a bit leftover to buy more toys...

also, are the dell LCDs as nice as the apple ones? i have an apple one at work and its amazing...

I was skeptical in the beginning. I bought a 20" Dell Widescreen LCD in April of 2005 and it has worked great. Not a single dead pixel and it rotates too. It has a 4 port USB hub built in and it has height adjustment as well as tilt. I cannot complain. It also has both VGA and DVI inputs as well as composite video input. The 24" has LCD/VGA and composite as well as component video input for high def sources that don't have DVI (such as older satellite receivers, etc). Also, the 24" has memory card slots and USB hub. My friend bought a 24" for $650 and loves it. I was told that the Dell and Apple LCDs are pretty close in quality.

milo
May 17, 2006, 01:43 PM
So far, I've been a tad disappointed with speed. I've had a few too many spinning beach balls, esp with Safari. But that might be because I haven't put in additional RAM yet.

It's definitely the ram, I'd recommend anyone getting one of these get at least a gig.

That is completely wrong. I have a core duo with 2GB of ram and 1080 is a little choppy. The GMA950 isn't a bad chip... but it falls far from "good." If you do get anything with the 950 don't expect to play somewhat recent (as of Doom 3) 3d games or 1080 h.264 video at acceptable quality.

That's not what I've seen, or have read reported elsewhere. My duo has no problem playing 1080. Maybe something else is funky on your machine, or there's something funky with a particular movie (using a codec that isn't optimized yet or something)?

In my experience, 1080 has been more than acceptable, for the most part it has been flawless.

I don't think so. The processor word size (which is 32 bits) determines how much memory you can install. i.e. the Dual PowerMac is a 64-bit processor and can support 8GB (4GB for each 64bit Processor) the Quad can hold 16gb.

That's completely wrong. A 32 bit processor can access up to 4 gigs of ram, a 64 can go far beyond that (terrabytes I believe). The number of processors (or cores) makes no difference at all. On most of these machines, the limit is the number of slots (the quad and dual G5's all access 16 gigs, a single G5 could access that and more if they built one with enough slots). And supposedly, the 4 gig limit can be overcome even with a 32 bit processor.

The 950 is a 64 megabyte chip, minimum.
This means that by default it takes 64 megabytes of your memory and steals it for its own use. When you have only stock 512 that is a good ratio.
When you have 2 gigs, that chages things. you can set the card to use just 128, up to 224 megabytes of memory. That should leave you plenty, over 1.5 gigs.
OSX may automatically do this, in which case im an idiot. I'd check that though.

I don't know if anyone knows yet how it's implemented on the MB, but on the mini, the video chip never uses more than 80 gig. Apple put a limit on it that can't be adjusted by the user.

50548
May 17, 2006, 01:51 PM
I personally consider them unacceptable period. One of the draws of Macs was that they had kept the matte finish. Glossy screens produce wicked bad glare in even low light environments like an office.

Also the integrated graphics are a big concern for me.

It's just amazing to see this kind of reaction now...

I remember, WHENEVER we were comparing Apple notes with notes such as the ones from Sony, that A LOT of people bragged about the "XBrite" or "TruBrite" glossy displays, saying that they were MUCH better than Apple's... now that Apple does it, the other "half" raises its head and starts screaming...what gives?

thogs_cave
May 17, 2006, 01:52 PM
That's completely wrong. A 32 bit processor can access up to 4 gigs of ram, a 64 can go far beyond that (terrabytes I believe). The number of processors (or cores) makes no difference at all. On most of these machines, the limit is the number of slots (the quad and dual G5's all access 16 gigs, a single G5 could access that and more if they built one with enough slots). And supposedly, the 4 gig limit can be overcome even with a 32 bit processor.

Yep, it's all about the design, the number of address lines, and the like. I was going to do a full write up when I saw the original (misinformed) post, but why reinvent the wheel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

quigleybc
May 17, 2006, 01:55 PM
Afterall, how many of us were smitten and giddy with the notion of applying are own thermal grease! What fun!



Can you order the Macbook with "lite" thermal grease? Or thermal grease "on the side".......?:p

FrenchFry
May 17, 2006, 02:00 PM
Bought my first ever Apple (as long as the Apple II doesn't count when I was in 3rd grade) last night for the wife. After spending about an hour messing around with it setting up etc, I was very impressed. My first impression of externals of the MacBook were:
1. That it's SOLID. It's 5 lbs which unless your smaller than my 5ft 1in wife shouldn't be a problem.

2. I was amazed at how thin it was... I had previously owned an Alienware Sentia (supposedly the thinest laptop at the time '02).

3. I was exstatic about the magnetic power connector (my laptop died b/c the connector that you plug the power cord into came off the MB inside the case and shatter into a bunch of pieces)

4. The magnetic latch is pretty cool. Not anything really earth shattering but cool none the less.

5. The screen is awesome much better on the eyes out in the sun then a regular laptop screen. Yes this is the same one that so many people are complaining about not liking but haven't seen yet...

6. The keyboard. great design as far as not being able to get crud under the keys. I thought it was going to be a pain but the spacing feels exactly like a desktop keyboard... and the travel distance and firmness of the buttons are much better.

7. Integrated Graphics, again it's for the wife and she doesn't play 3d games so no worries. However I've played some 3d games on my laptop with the 855 chipset and it worked bearably. Bump up the RAM to 2GB if you're really concerned.

8. RAM, the 512 is fine for now for my wife.... I'm getting two sticks of 1GB simply b/c for the price to performance why not? You can get this type of Ram for about $80/stick. Well worth it especially if you want the graphics to have more memory available to use.

In Summary, it's a great machine. Well worth the price, not sure I'd pay the extra for the two upper models but that depends on need.

I spent 30mins today trying to figure out what antivirus software to get for a mac... does that show how long I've been in the windows environ :)

FrenchFry
May 17, 2006, 02:03 PM
It's just amazing to see this kind of reaction now...

I remember, WHENEVER we were comparing Apple notes with notes such as the ones from Sony, that A LOT of people bragged about the "XBrite" or "TruBrite" glossy displays, saying that they were MUCH better than Apple's... now that Apple does it, the other "half" raises its head and starts screaming...what gives?


Hands down the "glossy" screen is better than any regular matte screen. I have more trouble reading text on my Dell 19" LCD than I do on my wifes new MacBook, in the same location at the same time. Glare isn't the problem its the LCD being "washed out" from the sun light.

Garissimo
May 17, 2006, 02:04 PM
Why? It's not like either of those components contribute significantly to the weight of the machine. The heavy part is the battery,

They don't contribute to the weight but they contribute to your power draw. If they're more efficient, and I'd hope the Intel Dual Cores would require less power than the G4s at some point in their evolution, you can use a smaller/lighter battery. Or use the same battery and get more life.

followed by the case (it seems to still have a sturdy magnesium frame in it). The only way to save weight is to have a lighter battery or an all-plastic case. The new computers require more power, hence a heavier battery.

That's my basic issue. I'd like to see the new computers require less power.

andrewface
May 17, 2006, 02:11 PM
Personally I think the new iBooks suck. Normally I hold judgement on such things and let all the other more "professional" whiners do it for me. Not that I am whining of course, I'm simply saying I don't like them. I'm not saying Apple can burn in hell or anything either. This revision just doesn't cater to me this time.

The screen looks interesting, in both resolution and this new gloss finish and I like the new upgradability to the MB's.

The one thing that does tickle me is the weight, I was hoping for something lighter and I expect it in a new revision of a popular model. Then again I expected the original Alubooks' to be lighter after the TiBooks. I want a less heavier laptop basically. A newer 12" MacBook Pro to be precise if it were possible with all the trimmings. But I don't want a laptop with seperate optical drive and such nonsense. Its gotta be done the Apple way, all in one.

The good news for me is, I was going to keep this Ibook G4 anyway regardless of what happens (nobody believes me, my friends and all, they think I will sell it but thats because they all bloody want it!!!). This is light enough for the moment and I will wait until Apple does a laptop that fits with my idea of being "better". I'm in the market for a new mac (even a desktop mac) for my uni course this year but can hold out for another 16 months if need be. Who knows what then when the newer processors start rolling off the production line.
seems like most people dont care about power...people just want light weight strange

bosrs1
May 17, 2006, 02:13 PM
It's just amazing to see this kind of reaction now...

I remember, WHENEVER we were comparing Apple notes with notes such as the ones from Sony, that A LOT of people bragged about the "XBrite" or "TruBrite" glossy displays, saying that they were MUCH better than Apple's... now that Apple does it, the other "half" raises its head and starts screaming...what gives?
Maybe the other side never had a reason to rear their head before. I've loathed the glossy screens ever since I saw my first one on my brother's Fujitsu. They look like crap. I'm particularly sensitive to glare since I wear glasses and get enough on them already without my computer screen adding to it. Poor choice by apple on this. It's seriously the one thing keeping me from replacing my PB with one of them.

advocate
May 17, 2006, 02:13 PM
That arstechnica article sure was written by a patronizing twat.

The key word there is "glossy,"... the scant few Mac users who immediately know what it means... Consider some synonyms... Gleaming. Shiny. Reflective. Now you're getting it.

Gee, thanks for explaining it. Now what does arrogant a**hole mean?

I think the point was that Mac users don't have to know what "glossy" means because Apple has never made them use such a terrible screen before. On the other hand, PC laptop users (myself included) are very familiar with the problems that a glossy screen presents..

Evangelion
May 17, 2006, 02:20 PM
"Dynamic Video Memory Technology (DVMT) 3.0 supports up to 224MB of video memory; system memory is allocated where it is needed dynamically."

Is it possible to add the 224MB to the MACBOOK somehow?

The GPU uses system-RAM as needed. IT does not have dedicated video-RAM. it uses 64-224MB of system-ram, depending on the situation.

FrenchFry
May 17, 2006, 02:25 PM
I think the point was that Mac users don't have to know what "glossy" means because Apple has never made them use such a terrible screen before. On the other hand, PC laptop users (myself included) are very familiar with the problems that a glossy screen presents..

Really I prefer the "glossy" screen to the "normal" Laptop screens... After seeing the MB in person I'd use the word terrible to describe a normal lcd screen. That's just my tired eyes though... and maybe my home and office (standard overhead flourescent) lighting just isn't the type to cause glare.

Also I've only used PCs up until yesterday so maybe it's jsut the new toy factor :cool: :confused:

bosrs1
May 17, 2006, 02:25 PM
I think the point was that Mac users don't have to know what "glossy" means because Apple has never made them use such a terrible screen before. On the other hand, PC laptop users (myself included) are very familiar with the problems that a glossy screen presents..
Yeah I'm not sure why they would've done this. I've never come across someone who owned a glossy screen and still liked it after 6 months. They scratch easier, are too reflective and wash out easier in sunlight. The only time they have an advantage is in a REALLY dark room.

Aldus
May 17, 2006, 02:28 PM
That's completely wrong. A 32 bit processor can access up to 4 gigs of ram, a 64 can go far beyond that (terrabytes I believe). The number of processors (or cores) makes no difference at all. On most of these machines, the limit is the number of slots (the quad and dual G5's all access 16 gigs, a single G5 could access that and more if they built one with enough slots). And supposedly, the 4 gig limit can be overcome even with a 32 bit processor.

Thanks for your replies, but I'm afraid I don't understand their implications on my original question (regrettably, I don't understand the wiki article either :o )

So is it: Never more than 2 gigs in a current MacBook - Or can I expect the option of upgrading later to the 4 gigs of ram that you mention that a 32 bit processor can access?

CrackedButter
May 17, 2006, 02:33 PM
seems like most people dont care about power...people just want light weight strange

Well I'm happy where Apple is going with power, I don't think that is such a big issue now, all their machines are now on par with other PC's. They should concentrate on other issues now.

In any case, since the laptop markets are fragmenting into smaller ones, I'd thought Apple (maybe others here as well) would of catered to the differing markets that have been emerging recently. In a more precise way though. The trouble is they always try to keep their offerings simple so as to avoid confusion and to keep choices clear.

CUSTOMER: "Hey Apple I need a desktop replacement in the form of a laptop with lots of power".
APPLE: "Sure no problem, try this 17inch MBP"

CUSTOMER: "Hey Apple I need a small rugged laptop to take with me on my travels, its needs to be capable and light."
APPLE: "Er, you could try a 13" MP."
CUSTOMER: Do you not have anything smaller, the screen is a bit big?"

It probably wouldn't go like that in the second scenario but you get my point.

alexf
May 17, 2006, 03:14 PM
seems like most people dont care about power...people just want light weight strange

No, that is not what CrackedButter was saying at all.

Power upgrades are absolutely essential; however, even though I am a "pro" user (graphic designer), I would still happily sacrifice a good deal of power for a more compact and lightweight design, and I think that many people feel the same way.

Too bad that Apple seems to be putting most of its energy into the iPod. As was already mentioned, those keep getting smaller and smaller, and yet the size and weight of the iBook/MacBook relative to screen size has not changed in 5 years.

There is much to praise with the new MacBook, but the size and weight issue leaves me - and apparently others - sorely disappointed.

StartTday
May 17, 2006, 03:16 PM
I've always wanted a apple computer but couldnt since I use 3ds max all the time. But I've decided on picking up new MacBook. On the condition that it runs 3ds max using Boot Camp. Damn PC only apps... anyway...

With the integrated graphics card does anyone if I can run Boot Camp and use 3ds max at a reasonable rate to display 3d models and photoshop? I'm an artist for a video game compay and would like to be able to display the stuff every so often and leave my desktop PC for all the hard work.

awesomebase
May 17, 2006, 03:33 PM
I don't know if it has been a big issue here yet, but I know there are a lot of people that will complain about the glossy screen. There are different theories on why it was adopted. I'll put my theory for battery life in. A glossy screen doesn't need as much brightness and contrast to show vivid images, thus extending battery life. I notice that I haven't seen battery life mentioned as a major bullet point on Apple's site yet...
The rest of the laptop is just absolutely fantastic! I love the black! I wish it were the same price as the white, but they are probably anticipating more black purchases at that price point. This is definitely going to be the best-selling mac for at least the next little while. Glossy screen can be difficult to work with in weird lighting, but, there are after-market solutions if that really bothers anybody. I know it will probably bother me, but not as much as some others. Overall, a supremely great product!!! :D:D:D

gloss
May 17, 2006, 03:35 PM
I'll put my theory for battery life in. A glossy screen doesn't need as much brightness and contrast to show vivid images, thus extending battery life. I notice that I haven't seen battery life mentioned as a major bullet point on Apple's site yet...

Believe me, the screen is pretty damn bright.

MrCrowbar
May 17, 2006, 03:36 PM
Thanks for your replies, but I'm afraid I don't understand their implications on my original question (regrettably, I don't understand the wiki article either :o )

So is it: Never more than 2 gigs in a current MacBook - Or can I expect the option of upgrading later to the 4 gigs of ram that you mention that a 32 bit processor can access?

I've borrowed two 2 GB SO-DIMMS (hard to get and they cost way too much right now) from a friend just to look if my iMac (see sig) can hadle it. No problem at all: System Porfiler said "4 GB", the iStats widgets said "4 GB" and the Activity Monitor recognized it too (3500 MB free after booting :p ). Too bad I had to give the RAM back, but 2 GB is plenty enough for me right now.

As it's the same processor and the same type of RAM as in the MBP and the Macbooks, I think 4 GB should work fine in the Macbooks and MBP. But at the moment, 4 GB of RAM is about as expensive as the whole Macbook itself :rolleyes:

Macnoviz
May 17, 2006, 03:41 PM
I notice that I haven't seen battery life mentioned as a major bullet point on Apple's site yet...

Which is still better than the specs of the MBP (when it came out), of which we had to guess (or read the reviews) the battery life.

Great job, though, I don't think a lot of consumer laptops for Windows can keep up with such a battery. Of course, you won't get six hours, but that's pretty obvious.

MattyP
May 17, 2006, 03:43 PM
So, no witty, retro, ironic beige MacBook then. ;)
Witha glowing rainbow apple... That would be so sweet!

irobot2003
May 17, 2006, 03:50 PM
Yeah, I stopped in at the Apple store, and the new MacBooks look, well, cheap... in particular the chiclet keyboard combined with the matte black finish.

I'd imagine most here don't remember the IBM PCjr, but IBM got roasted for using a similar keyboard, and they quickly replaced it. Apparently their idea was that companies could provide keyboard overlays for their software... although most thought it was used simply because it's cheaper to manufacture.

The keyboard action actually feels pretty nice on the MacBook... probably could get used to it... but it just makes the thing look like a big calculator.

i thought i would like the black cause i was pushing for one for so long, but it's kinda ugly because it makes it so cheap.

the keyboard buttons look so ghetto. it's like the buttons on my remote control. and why do they have space between them?

the glossy screen should be an option. i hate glossy - i had that on the sony vaio 13" laptop too and it had a glossy screen and I HATED IT!

mlrproducts
May 17, 2006, 04:08 PM
I called the West County Apple store this morning and got to play with the books before they put them out on display. I think they are HOT!

The glossy screen really isn't bad, for the viewer. yes, it is mirrorish from the side, but shouldn't matter. I DO LIKE the keyboard. Not as "springy" and loose as past iBooks. My only complaint is they would be better if concave in the middle.

The black book showed fingerprints VERY easily because it is a matte - and that is a shame. They seemed a little heavier, they genius said it was .3LB heavier. The battery is much larger and runs nearly the entire front of the computer.

The LCD latch was surprisingly more difficult to open then I imaged, but should keep it shut when moving around. The new feet won't come off either. However, I see opening the new book - you'll get fingerprints on the iSight because of where it is.

Overall - I really really like it - but I am now more satisfied with my 1.83ghz Pro.

MattyP
May 17, 2006, 04:21 PM
I have to say that I am very pleased with the dissasembly pictures of the macbook. It seems much easier to take apart than the 'pro and more upgradable... odd considering it is a lower end model. Even the CPU seems easier to get at, and I can easily see someone at OWC or Powerbook resQ having an upgrade option for the processor in a couple years time. From what I understand the 2gig ram cieling is not necessarily true either. It looks like the only fidgety widget is the graphics processor may not be up to handling Pro editing and hardcore gaming. All-in-all I think it is a great package for the money.

This makes me sad, as it may be time to retire my trusty and rock solid ti book... 'Nah, it'll just give him a new friend.

BTW- I don't like the black either...

cherfizzle
May 17, 2006, 04:29 PM
Yeah, that reflectio it gets from being so glossy sucks! but hopefully its not THAT bad.

Groovey
May 17, 2006, 04:57 PM
Believe me, the screen is pretty damn bright.
In every photo the screen seems to be very good! I can't wait to grow the numbers on my bank account and eventually switch my jolly good iB G4/800 to a spanking new MacBook. I'm sure there are sides to every possible screen they could've chosen. At least my iBooks screen is pretty much too dark when using in daylight outdoors, I'm sure MB will do better. Now all I need is patience... I wish you all MacBook owners delightful lightningfast MacMoments!

unten44
May 17, 2006, 04:58 PM
http://www.lookinsideit.com/macbook

LookInsideIt.com has a ton of photos of the new Apple MacBook taken apart.

The pictures speak for themselves on how well designed the new MacBooks are.

[moderator note: post is from a merged thread]

thogs_cave
May 17, 2006, 04:58 PM
I spent 30mins today trying to figure out what antivirus software to get for a mac... does that show how long I've been in the windows environ :)

Welcome back, and when will the next Mac be purchased? (They're like potato chips, you can't have just one!) :D

thogs_cave
May 17, 2006, 05:04 PM
So is it: Never more than 2 gigs in a current MacBook - Or can I expect the option of upgrading later to the 4 gigs of ram that you mention that a 32 bit processor can access?

To be truthful, I don't know. The CPU is capable of addressing 4G of physical memory, but it all depends on the memory controller and how Apple (or ASUS, or whoever) implemented it.

For what it's worth, I don't see 2G as being a limiting factor, especially in a laptop. My G5 at work has 2G of RAM, and I push it pretty hard w/o exhausting it. Heck, we run Oracle development databases on systems with 768M....

bosrs1
May 17, 2006, 05:11 PM
In every photo the screen seems to be very good! I can't wait to grow the numbers on my bank account and eventually switch my jolly good iB G4/800 to a spanking new MacBook. I'm sure there are sides to every possible screen they could've chosen. At least my iBooks screen is pretty much too dark when using in daylight outdoors, I'm sure MB will do better. Now all I need is patience... I wish you all MacBook owners delightful lightningfast MacMoments!
I may get the low end MacBook for my girlfriend. Her trusty old TiBook has just about reached the end of it's useful life for her as a webdesigner.

sam10685
May 17, 2006, 05:12 PM
wow. sounds like Apple nailed this one quite hard! (userability, everything else.) the only thing that kinda worries me is the glossy screen. it seems like we went to a not-glossy screen to get away from the glare that we got.

milo
May 17, 2006, 05:15 PM
It looks like the only fidgety widget is the graphics processor may not be up to handling Pro editing and hardcore gaming.

It's fine for "pro editing". People have already run apps like final cut and aperture and they work fine.

Nar1117
May 17, 2006, 05:23 PM
Bought my first ever Apple (as long as the Apple II doesn't count when I was in 3rd grade) last night for the wife. After spending about an hour messing around with it setting up etc, I was very impressed. My first impression of externals of the MacBook were:
1. That it's SOLID. It's 5 lbs which unless your smaller than my 5ft 1in wife shouldn't be a problem.

2. I was amazed at how thin it was... I had previously owned an Alienware Sentia (supposedly the thinest laptop at the time '02).

3. I was exstatic about the magnetic power connector (my laptop died b/c the connector that you plug the power cord into came off the MB inside the case and shatter into a bunch of pieces)

4. The magnetic latch is pretty cool. Not anything really earth shattering but cool none the less.

5. The screen is awesome much better on the eyes out in the sun then a regular laptop screen. Yes this is the same one that so many people are complaining about not liking but haven't seen yet...

6. The keyboard. great design as far as not being able to get crud under the keys. I thought it was going to be a pain but the spacing feels exactly like a desktop keyboard... and the travel distance and firmness of the buttons are much better.

7. Integrated Graphics, again it's for the wife and she doesn't play 3d games so no worries. However I've played some 3d games on my laptop with the 855 chipset and it worked bearably. Bump up the RAM to 2GB if you're really concerned.

8. RAM, the 512 is fine for now for my wife.... I'm getting two sticks of 1GB simply b/c for the price to performance why not? You can get this type of Ram for about $80/stick. Well worth it especially if you want the graphics to have more memory available to use.

In Summary, it's a great machine. Well worth the price, not sure I'd pay the extra for the two upper models but that depends on need.

I spent 30mins today trying to figure out what antivirus software to get for a mac... does that show how long I've been in the windows environ :)

Just out of curiosity, which games did you play? Were they under XP? It would be sweet if i could play Battlefield 2 on this baby, but i doubt it...

Aldus
May 17, 2006, 05:26 PM
I've borrowed two 2 GB SO-DIMMS (hard to get and they cost way too much right now) from a friend just to look if my iMac (see sig) can hadle it. No problem at all /snip/ As it's the same processor and the same type of RAM as in the MBP and the Macbooks, I think 4 GB should work fine in the Macbooks and MBP. But at the moment, 4 GB of RAM is about as expensive as the whole Macbook itself :rolleyes:

Cool. Thanks for the info.

I checked at Kingston what 2 GB modules cost now: $1800 a piece :D

MrCrowbar
May 17, 2006, 05:31 PM
A just got a 17" iMac (see sig) 3 weeks ago and I'm quite happy with it. I played around with it a bit on Windows XP (HL2, B&W2) but I've not used Windows for a week because I'm so used to OSX (gotta love it) now. :p

I'm really thinking of selling my iMac (got it for 900 Bucks unused on eBay) and getting the high end Macbook (color depends on what looks better to me, Ill put a 120 GB HDD in there anyway). I like that it's 2 GHz so it would actually be faster than my iMac here. I'd love to see a comparison between the Macbooks and the iMacs. I mean, the iMac has the guts of a laptop anyway except for the 3,5" HDD... Graphics are not too much of an issue since the graphic stuff I do is mostly photoshop and some Maya, both of which don't really use the GPU anyway. Could someone run 3D Mark 06 on Windows XP on a Macbook?

I don't mind having 2 Macs, but's it's quite a hazzle to have 2 computers because there's always the "secondary" computer you barely use. And I have an external display anyway, so I won't miss the iMac's screen too much. I like carrying all my stuff around without having to say "damn, it's on my computer at home".

PS: Besides, I don't like the feeling that my desktop would be slower than my laptop... Think I'll buy a Mycbook, put my 2 GB RAM in there and sell the iMac shortly after with the 128 MB RAM from the Macbook in addition.

PPS: What about fan activity of the Macbooks? I like how my iMac works at night and is virtually silent.

MrCrowbar
May 17, 2006, 05:35 PM
Cool. Thanks for the info.

I checked at Kingston what 2 GB modules cost now: $1800 a piece :D

Whoa!!! :eek:
So a decent Macbook with 4 GB RAM would be around 5000$. Make it 6000 if you have the 2 GB as BTO option from Apple. At that price, I want "4 GB of RAM" laser engraved and gold plated on the black Macbook. :p

weg
May 17, 2006, 05:39 PM
1 and 2 are essentially the same. Why list both?

To avoid Macrumor's slashdotting effect ;-)

weg
May 17, 2006, 05:43 PM
The only time they have an advantage is in a REALLY dark room.

Fair enough for me. A dark room is the only place I can use my current 12" powerbook. A little sun is enough to make the display completely unreadable. That said, we nerds don't need no stinking sun, anyway.

iJawn108
May 17, 2006, 05:46 PM
So, no witty, retro, ironic beige MacBook then. ;)
Haha with rainbow apple logo, I know I was hoping for that myself. :p

drmike
May 17, 2006, 05:58 PM
The glossy screen really isn't bad, for the viewer. yes, it is mirrorish from the side, but shouldn't matter. I DO LIKE the keyboard. Not as "springy" and loose as past iBooks. My only complaint is they would be better if concave in the middle.

The LCD latch was surprisingly more difficult to open then I imaged, but should keep it shut when moving around. The new feet won't come off either. However, I see opening the new book - you'll get fingerprints on the iSight because of where it is.

Overall - I really really like it - but I am now more satisfied with my 1.83ghz Pro.

I've returned to Macs after 12 years of using PCs and nothing else, and it was the MacBook that got me back. For those who might be interested, I agree that the glossy screen isn't bad -- in fact I think it's great. I bought a white MacBook yesterday after visiting my local Apple store and spending sometime playing with a demo model that the salesguy brought out from the back -- they hadn't even set up store displays for them yet. I was very skeptical about the glossy screen; PC makers have put them on laptops for a while now and I've always swore them off because they exaggerate colors and have too much glare. But after using the MacBook for several hours last night, I have to say it won me over. I had two bright lamps on in my house, both within a few feet of me, and when looking at the screen straight on, I had no notiecable glare, and no noticeable reflections. Some reflections were noticeable when I put in a DVD and the screen momentarily went black before the opening credits rolled. But once the movie began, it looked fine. When typing, surfing with Safari, etc. I didn't have to strain my eyes because of any noticeable glare. Very nice.

One downside I can see to a glossy screen is that, when editing photographs, the colors on screen might not match those in the actual photo when printed out because of the increased saturation on the screen. But, personally, that's okay for me -- I'm going to be using my PCs for photo manipulation for quite some time, and for what I will be using the MacBook for (word processing, internet, some web development) I really like the clarity that the glossy screen gives.

Also, I really love the keyboard. Again, I was very skeptical -- on appearance alone it looked cheap. But it has no "give" like the older iBook keyboards, and while the keys don't travel far, there's a nice balance of firmness and softness to them -- very comfortable. I was surprised, but I'd rather type on the MacBook keyboard now than on my full-size Dell and Sony keyboards. I agree that the keyboard might be a bit better if concave in the middle -- but that's minor for me.

The magnetic latch is a little hard to get used to at first -- I didn't know whether to slowly, gently open the thing or just pull it apart fast. But now I think all laptops should be like this -- sliding a latch or lever and hearing that "clang" when it closes are things I'm glad I won't have to be exposed to.

Again, I haven't used Macs in 12 years and am harldly an expert -- and I haven't had my MacBook that long. But I thought I'd offer my 2 cents. Only immediate issue I see is heat; like the MacBook Pro this thing gets very warm, but so far it has not heated beneath the palm rests or the keyboard.

A very nice piece of equipment for a good price ... unless you go with the black :)

Di9it8
May 17, 2006, 06:03 PM
Fair enough for me. A dark room is the only place I can use my current 12" powerbook. A little sun is enough to make the display completely unreadable. That said, we nerds don't need no stinking sun, anyway.

What laptop can you use outside anyhow??:rolleyes:

Mersen
May 17, 2006, 06:05 PM
Anyone have anything to report as to its performance regading Final Cut Express or Photoshop. I will not be doing intensive stuff, but jus tsimple video/photo editing. ANy comments? Thanks

MrCrowbar
May 17, 2006, 06:24 PM
Photoshop should run like on the Macbook Pro / iMac. Keep in mind it runs under Rosetta and doesn't make use of the GPU anyway. You may want to upgrade your RAM though. Final Cut might lag a little when using heavy real time effects.

Highland
May 17, 2006, 06:25 PM
Brilliant laptop, but I have the same two concerns as most: integrated graphics and that glossy screen.

I think the integrated graphics is totally acceptable for Apple's entry level laptop (and for the mini).

I think the glossy screen is a complete abomination and a total instant dismissal. After using PC laptops with glossy screens, I'd NEVER buy one. I really hope we'll always be given the choice with the MBPs, because I would only ever buy one with a matte screen (luckily, I just did!).

Thinking about the possibility of glossy being the norm for desktop displays makes me really, really sad. I hope that never happens. Changing from using a Sony Triniton CRT to an Apple Cinema Display at work was the most amazing upgrade ever. The Sony CRTs were standard fare in ad agencies for the designers/retouchers... the Cinema displays have a slight ghosting (like all LCDs), but once you get past that, the other advantages are massive, like the matte finish as opposed to the CRTs glossy finish. Less fatigue, and much, much easier to use and read.

I will never, ever but a glossy computer screen!

pcarp21
May 17, 2006, 06:53 PM
will apple be releasing a neoprene case for the macbook like the ibook or can anyone direct me to where one is being sold?

ImAlwaysRight
May 17, 2006, 07:01 PM
will apple be releasing a neoprene case for the macbook like the ibook or can anyone direct me to where one is being sold?
I bought this Case Logic nylon model (http://www.caselogic.com/13_lightweight_laptop_case/product_detail/index.cfm?modelid=65873) last month in anticipation of my new MacBook, and the MacBooks fits perfectly. (buy.com was $20 off retail). It is not Neoprene, but I imagine it will be some time before you will see a neoprene case made for the MacBook since manufacturers just found out about the MacBook the same time we did. Cases for 13.3" laptops were pretty rare, when I went looking 2 months ago.

tny
May 17, 2006, 07:06 PM
will apple be releasing a neoprene case for the macbook like the ibook or can anyone direct me to where one is being sold?

I think you're thinking of the InCase neoprene sleeves. InCase doesn't have anything about new products up yet, but I imagine they will come out with the neoprene sleeves and the nylon "sleeves" (which latter are very lightweight but protective bags).

ITASOR
May 17, 2006, 07:14 PM
I think you're thinking of the InCase neoprene sleeves. InCase doesn't have anything about new products up yet, but I imagine they will come out with the neoprene sleeves and the nylon "sleeves" (which latter are very lightweight but protective bags).

Companies were making sleeves for the MacBook Pro in no time, so I wouldn't worry about the MacBooks, give them a few weeks...

sw1tcher
May 17, 2006, 07:20 PM
Can anyone tell from Kodiwarisan's pictures if they're finally putting the paste on correctly?

If this is this picture (http://mactree.sannet.ne.jp/~kodawarisan/macbook/image/1417.jpg), then I'd have to say not really. Definitely looks better, but still too much IMO.

wyrmintheapple
May 17, 2006, 07:30 PM
I thought that, correct me if I am wrong, the excellent performance of HD playback in the macbook pros was primarily due to H.264 decoding that is built into the hardware of the X1600? Will the MB be able to do 1080p? how does the mini perform... I assume the macbook will be exactly the same....

The Mac mini was still able to run 1080p h.264 content, I think the slower model struggled. Both of the MacBook models are faster than that.

Thing is, the GMA 950 isn't as bad as everyone thinks.

It seems that not being able to customize and upgrade their hardware has left many Mac users quite in the dark with the reality of computer components.

Try

http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/

There is alot of FUD flying concerning these graphics chips.

Some say they suck your CPU power -- which is incorrect. They dont use your CPU resources, they have their own 400Mhz GPU. The only thing they use is RAM.

Some seem to think they are bad for everything-- also incorrect. Yes, they are sucky for games. They will also be sucky for any CAD/3D app with hardware acceleration.
They are plenty fast enough for Core Image and all the Quartz things on the Mac platform. It supports high resolutions, supports acceleration of many media formats, including HD resolutions. It drives big screens, all in 32 bit goodness.

Plus it runs cooler and is better on battery life.

Again--

Yes, 3D == Crappy.
Everything else, including Aperture, Final Cut etc == Fine.

McCanical
May 17, 2006, 07:44 PM
I don't really know if this is a problem limited to my machine or the way it is on these new macbooks. I used to have a powerbook 12" and the sound was amazing considering it was bouncing off of the monitor. Unfortunately on my macbook, this is not the case. I even tried listening directly to the speakers when the book was closed and they are very quiet. Is there a way to adjust the sound other than the volume control in iTunes and System Prefs -> Sound?

rockinphotog
May 17, 2006, 08:07 PM
apple shut down my .Mac pages yesterday after the bandwidth killed me.

Pics of my white Macbook (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ericfischer/sets/72057594136826748/)

LaMerVipere
May 17, 2006, 08:43 PM
I hate glossy screens so much, there are no words. Whenever I use one of my friends' PC laptops it is so annoying! Every light, every f'n thing in the room reflected on the screen, including yourself.

I would love a MacBook, but I will not buy a laptop with a glossy display. If only it was an "option" on the MB like it is on the MBP. :mad:

LaMerVipere
May 17, 2006, 08:47 PM
Brilliant laptop, but I have the same two concerns as most: integrated graphics and that glossy screen.

I think the integrated graphics is totally acceptable for Apple's entry level laptop (and for the mini).

I think the glossy screen is a complete abomination and a total instant dismissal. After using PC laptops with glossy screens, I'd NEVER buy one. I really hope we'll always be given the choice with the MBPs, because I would only ever buy one with a matte screen (luckily, I just did!).

Thinking about the possibility of glossy being the norm for desktop displays makes me really, really sad. I hope that never happens. Changing from using a Sony Triniton CRT to an Apple Cinema Display at work was the most amazing upgrade ever. The Sony CRTs were standard fare in ad agencies for the designers/retouchers... the Cinema displays have a slight ghosting (like all LCDs), but once you get past that, the other advantages are massive, like the matte finish as opposed to the CRTs glossy finish. Less fatigue, and much, much easier to use and read.

I will never, ever but a glossy computer screen!

You and me think alike. :D

Glossy Screens = No

bill4588
May 17, 2006, 08:58 PM
am i the only one not bothered at all by glossy screens!? i have used them before and they havnt bothered me a bit. maybe i could see a problem when watching a movie, but I usually do that at night....and i usually watch them with my gf....which means not a lot of watching....so no complaints here! :p

jxwolf
May 17, 2006, 09:06 PM
I finally thumbnailed all my pictures (the better ones at least) of my black MacBook.

http://domojo.com/macbook

I've been posting all my commentary on it in the big MacBook thread instead of this one, but I felt this was the place to place the link to my updated pics.

iJawn108
May 17, 2006, 09:09 PM
How much bettery life could I expect say... strictly internetbrowsing and chatting via... ichat or msn.:confused:

Legacy
May 17, 2006, 09:20 PM
How much bettery life could I expect say... strictly internetbrowsing and chatting via... ichat or msn.:confused:


4hours w/o airport, 3h15m w/ Airport probs

iJawn108
May 17, 2006, 09:55 PM
Ohh that's enough for me. I contacted Carbon Computing(the local resellers) to see when they will be in hopefully soon.

Highland
May 17, 2006, 10:34 PM
I finally thumbnailed all my pictures (the better ones at least) of my black MacBook.

http://domojo.com/macbook

I've been posting all my commentary on it in the big MacBook thread instead of this one, but I felt this was the place to place the link to my updated pics.
Looks really, really nice. I love the simplified latch thingie (now a magnet I think). Brilliant, sleek and well crafted shape.

Well done Apple, just LOSE THE GLOSS!

MrCrowbar
May 17, 2006, 11:27 PM
Didn't hear any Macbook owners complain about fan noise. I need a silent computer so it can do some light stuff at night qithout me waking up. Hard Drive noise is ok, I'm so used to it I can't really sleep without it when I'm sleeping alone. Yea, I know... I'm a geek. :p

nomad01
May 18, 2006, 02:12 AM
Fair enough for me. A dark room is the only place I can use my current 12" powerbook. A little sun is enough to make the display completely unreadable. That said, we nerds don't need no stinking sun, anyway.

I do like the look of the glossy screens but never used one so I need to get down to the Apple Store later.

I'd second your comment about the 12" PB though. Mine was hard to see in office lighting too. Even on full brightness, the white fluorescent lights would wipe the display out. My iBook was the same.

Leemo
May 18, 2006, 02:19 AM
Didn't hear any Macbook owners complain about fan noise. I need a silent computer so it can do some light stuff at night qithout me waking up. Hard Drive noise is ok, I'm so used to it I can't really sleep without it when I'm sleeping alone. Yea, I know... I'm a geek. :p

It's completely silent, the only thing that makes a noise on mine is the optical drive!

To all those people moaning about the glossy screen - we had glorious sunshine here yesterday, and for the first time I had a laptop outside and could actually use it in heavy sunlight. Turning the brightness up made the screen completely visable, with no reflections because I was head on.

I've yet to experience any of the problems these glossy screens are supposed to produce.

-Leemo

monkeyandy
May 18, 2006, 02:33 AM
integrated gfx...glossy screen...integrated gfx...glossy screen...intega...blah...blah...blah...and on and on and on.....zzzzzzzzzz

come on guys change the record!

Does anyone have a clue if Bootcamp runs on these things? If so whats it like speed wise? Think you might be able to run GTA San Andreas on it?

If not it's no big deal as long as XP (:( for work b4 u complain!) and OSX run fine on it...

Get over the few minor issues or start a new thread on the bloody glossy screen or integrated gfx if its that big a deal...i'd like to hear some thoughts on other features of the machine!:mad:

MarkAlanEis
May 18, 2006, 02:43 AM
Kinda pisses me off the "MacBook Pro" doesn't have the option of a black model, I don't understand why the cheaper "MacBook" would have a black or white option while the more expensive Pro Model your forced to get the standard Metal color. The "MacBook Pro" should have every feature and option of the "MacBook" and a whole lot more. Even the keyboard on the "Macbook" looks alot cooler and better than the one they have on the Pro model. Your now basically paying an extra $1000 to get a better graphics card with the "MacBook Pro".

jacobj
May 18, 2006, 02:47 AM
OK. I have an MBP that admittedly seems a little less potent now in terms of value for money, but the point is that the deed is done. What amazes me about Apple and, I am assuming, especially Mr. Ive, is that I want the MacBook even though it does not have the size screen I want, the GPU I need or the audio input/outputs that come in so handy.

I couldn't consider having such a machine as my only computer, but what I love about these things is that they offer such punch and allow me to get a 20" iMac and superdrive equipped notebook for GBP 1,800 (I am in Jersey, no tax). An MBP that tries to perform both roles, i.e. the 17", costs GBP 1,600.00.

What I am saying is that next time around, if Apple are still offering such incredible value for money, I am going for an iMac and MacBook.

jcjcjc87
May 18, 2006, 02:48 AM
I am planning on buying a MacBook soon...most likely the White 2.0Ghz version - i would have been happy with the 1.83 but i need a superdrive not combo.

I am mainly going to use it for Video Capturing using iMovie, iDVD and a minor use of FCP. I will be editing DV but not HD DV. I do not want to buy a MacBook Pro as i already have a 15.4" (LG) notebook and want something more portable so i can also take it to Uni.

Just wondering whether i should capture to the laptop Hard Disk (5400rpm) or an external HDD connected via USB2 (7200rpm) - i have heard that this can cause issues in terms of video capturing.

Also with the RAM running in dual mode (2x 256MB) If i put in a 1GB stick to make it 1280MB of ram will it still run in dual mode - i have also heard that intel memory runs in dual regardless if they are equal or not.

I am not sure who/what to believe.

Hope someone can help

Cheers

blouis79
May 18, 2006, 03:19 AM
[...]
6. The keyboard. great design as far as not being able to get crud under the keys. I thought it was going to be a pain but the spacing feels exactly like a desktop keyboard... and the travel distance and firmness of the buttons are much better.
[...]


Please clarify. Pictures on the thinksecret web site seemed to show visible circuit board circuitry through the gaps around the keys.
http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/macbookphotos/source/macbook-7.html

I feel happier if the keyboard is known to be splash resistant. (not that I'm into spills, but it has been done a lot by users) Surely more laptop computers have died at the hands of a spilt drink than a power cable accident.

The old Sinclair ZX80 chiclet keys had a rubber membrane - great for waterpoofing and quietness (which Jerry Pournelle of Byte magazine used to love) but no good for longevity as the membrane cracks.

emotion
May 18, 2006, 03:23 AM
Kinda pisses me off the "MacBook Pro" doesn't have the option of a black model, I don't understand why the cheaper "MacBook" would have a black or white option while the more expensive Pro Model your forced to get the standard Metal color. The "MacBook Pro" should have every feature and option of the "MacBook" and a whole lot more. Even the keyboard on the "Macbook" looks alot cooler and better than the one they have on the Pro model. Your now basically paying an extra $1000 to get a better graphics card with the "MacBook Pro".

I still think the current MBP is an interim machine. The real Powerbook replacement is due with Core2 in a few months time imo.

BWhaler
May 18, 2006, 03:41 AM
I still think the current MBP is an interim machine. The real Powerbook replacement is due with Core2 in a few months time imo.

I absolutely agree.

I think the MB's showed Apple is taking some interesting advances--latch, keyboard, user upgradability enhancements, etc.--and it is odd that these are not found on the pro mobile line.

I think we will see a nice upgrade later in the year. But my main hope is Apple works our the noise, heat, and terrible screen backlight problems in that revision.

I'm going to buy my wife a MB sometime this week, but I am going to wait for a new MBP for myself until these issues are worked out. I bought a last gen 17" PB, and I feel pretty burned by the quality issues and the fact Apple thought this crappy screen is "within spec."

But the MB's look incredible...

netdog
May 18, 2006, 03:42 AM
How do I remove the RAM?

Problem solved. Pushed bar all the way to left a number of times and RAM finally popped out very slightly, but enough to remove.

cb911
May 18, 2006, 04:15 AM
oh nice!! :D

funnily enough... I want one of these more than the MBP. :eek:

a nice looking machine.

and it's nice to see that our friends accross the way at Kodawarisan have already been getting to work disassembling. :D

shrhaider
May 18, 2006, 05:06 AM
Please clarify. Pictures on the thinksecret web site seemed to show visible circuit board circuitry through the gaps around the keys.
http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/macbookphotos/source/macbook-7.html

I second this request. I hadn't noticed this until I looked at that picture again, but blouis79 is right. It looks like there is something exposed beneath the keys. Can anyone who already purchased a Macbook confirm or rebut this?

emotion
May 18, 2006, 05:09 AM
I'd be extremely surprised if that is a circuit board you see under there. There's bound to be a membrane to catch bits of skin, cake, crisps etc

Remember Apple have to deal with warranty claims on these things they want them to last a little while at least!

matthewroth
May 18, 2006, 06:00 AM
this is getting real ugly, real fast.

you need to stop and think, have apple ever steered you wrong (exception of the cube) are they stupid enough to use gloss screens without a lot of testing, the same can be said about the keyboard. first of all you should not eat or drink near your laptop (it is like the holy grail) and second apple will have tested this as if it messes up it causes cost implications and professional embarrassment (the scars of the nano?)

we need to look at it like this, is this a laptop that is still powerful enough to run boot camp, if so will it run anything good on its integrated graphics with the strain of XP. if so then i am there, my old ibook is being sold to a friend and I am getting the 2GHz model (White of course) with the ram and hard drive being user accessible this makes the macbook a force to be reckoned with. as for the onboard graphics, if it can run aperture like a dream no one will want for more for a LONG time

blouis79
May 18, 2006, 07:04 AM
this is getting real ugly, real fast.

you need to stop and think, have apple ever steered you wrong (exception of the cube) are they stupid enough to use gloss screens without a lot of testing, the same can be said about the keyboard. first of all you should not eat or drink near your laptop (it is like the holy grail) and second apple will have tested this as if it messes up it causes cost implications and professional embarrassment (the scars of the nano?)
[...]


I tend to agree on the glossy screen issue.

But.... all manufacturers of products never get it perfect the first time. There is a good correlation between quality of designs and numbers of design iterations. And at the end of the day, shareholders are more important than customers for a corporation.

(And "new Coke" proved that marketing research can get it wrong really big time.)

White iBooks are known for the keyboard leaving marks on the screen when closed. My keycap writing started coming off after 3 months (and I'll bother to get it fixed when I can afford to lose my primary machine for a week or more).

CRT iMacs are famous for flyback transformer failures. My old iMac DVSE also had a broken heatsink retaining clip on a video chip - effectively no heatsink at all - probably a manufacturing flaw that was only evident on disassembly.


Almost nobody bothers to make computers enviromentally protected. Digital cameras too. We are just seeing the beginning of drop-proofness. A small minority of electronic gear is water resistant - which is important for a camera.

Why - because if the machine dies and the manual says not to let it get wet, then they get to sell you a new machine or at least parts and repairs! Just like GM used to build cars to fall apart after a few years.

Bad publicity is good for product innovation, because it shifts the power base from shareholder to customer.

mmr34747
May 18, 2006, 07:35 AM
I am a student, and with the discount I can either purchase the new macbook (Black) for $1,400 or the base macbook pro for $1,800. Can anyone please help with my decision. Do I get a lot more features that justify the extra $400 by going with the MBP.

Zeke
May 18, 2006, 07:51 AM
This is hard to answer. What is important to you? I personally wouldn't spend the premium for the black so the question is between the white 1.83 and the base MBP. That's a huge price difference and not worth it in my mind. The biggest question to consider is whether or not you'll need the better video capability of the MBP.

I am a student, and with the discount I can either purchase the new macbook (Black) for $1,400 or the base macbook pro for $1,800. Can anyone please help with my decision. Do I get a lot more features that justify the extra $400 by going with the MBP.

MB Buyer?
May 18, 2006, 07:57 AM
Hi all, can someone with a MB tell me if you can rotate an external screen into portrait mode?

jacg
May 18, 2006, 08:06 AM
OK. I have an MBP that admittedly seems a little less potent now in terms of value for money, but the point is that the deed is done. What amazes me about Apple and, I am assuming, especially Mr. Ive, is that I want the MacBook even though it does not have the size screen I want, the GPU I need or the audio input/outputs that come in so handy.


I wonder if some of the design that has gone into the Macbook will make it into the next revision of the MBP? Perhaps the current MBP was rushed out to be in time for the Intel chips that were being released at the same time?

I love the design of my PBG4 and the current MBP but I'm hoping that by waiting for Merom, I will be getting an even more refined and innovative pro laptop.

jacg
May 18, 2006, 08:11 AM
I still think the current MBP is an interim machine. The real Powerbook replacement is due with Core2 in a few months time imo.

Oops, I missed your post. We're thinking along the same lines!

galton1.3
May 18, 2006, 08:44 AM
Witha glowing rainbow apple... That would be so sweet!

Wow. I would totally buy one. That special yellow color that the case would turn after a few years... makes me tear up just thinking about it. My Mac SE only boots up on 1 out of 10 tries these days.

We need a MacBook Classic.

Evan_11
May 18, 2006, 11:19 AM
Bad publicity is good for product innovation, because it shifts the power base from shareholder to customer.

And somehow constant complaining, anxiety and buyers remorse is healthy?

I think Mac users tend to complain more because they lack certain emotional skills that allow them to cope with reality.

gloss
May 18, 2006, 11:30 AM
And somehow constant complaining, anxiety and buyers remorse is healthy?

I think Mac users tend to complain more because they lack certain emotional skills that allow them to cope with reality.

Heheh. Probably true.

thogs_cave
May 18, 2006, 12:54 PM
I am a student, and with the discount I can either purchase the new macbook (Black) for $1,400 or the base macbook pro for $1,800. Can anyone please help with my decision. Do I get a lot more features that justify the extra $400 by going with the MBP.

Save even more by getting the white 2.0GHz one and tricking it out. You'll need RAM, and a bigger disk is nice. For the $1800, you could get the dual 2.0GHz with 1G RAM, a 100G hard drive and (most importantly) AppleCare. I really, really recommend the last item on *all* laptops....

ccarrieta
May 18, 2006, 01:59 PM
If you like it white then buy it white if you like it black then go black, if you like it black but dont want to pay the extra $$$$$ take it easy either go white, or save for black!!!!!

And for those that are complaining about the integrated video! ITS 1099 dollars, why dont people that go out and get a crappy dell laptop complain when the laptop explodes when they try and play doom 3!!!!!! If you wana game go for the pro...:o