OldNavy ad: girls that look like 14 yo skinny boys

[ShovelHead84]

1. it is not realistic to portray teen girls and young women thus…
2. ads like this one contributes significantly to peer pressure that results in eating disorders and other health and esteem issues…
3. Madison Avenue generally and the fashion industry in particular is responsible…

[floriflee]

You have an example of what you're talking about? I, personally, am not familiar with the Old Navy ad to which you referred.

Are you proposing that we boycott or something??

[vniow]

Hey, some of us girls actually do look like young teenage skinny boys. :D

[interlaced]

Are you talking about the Madras commercial?

BTW, vniow, nice icon. Rock out!

[yellow]

You have an example of what you're talking about? I, personally, am not familiar with the Old Navy ad to which you referred.

http://www.oldnavy.com/customerService/info.do?cid=3152

Under TV ads.

[wordmunger]

I don't think she looks like a 14-year-old boy. This is what a 14-year-old boy looks like. (actuallly they only rarely look this good. Most of the time they're wearing baggy pants and ripped up t-shirts)

[Koodauw]

http://www.oldnavy.com/customerService/info.do?cid=3152

Under TV ads.

I dont see anything wrong with the girl :confused:

[ShovelHead84]

yes i believe i am referring to the 'madras' ad…

remarkably i had not considered that some girls do look like 14 yo boys… no joke… i don't know how that is gonna affect my attitude toward the portrayal of females as stick figures that makes that a desirable physical trait that glorifies a physical model that is unattainable for most young women and even if attainable it is thru unhealthy means mentally and physically…

[scem0]

Although I tend to agree on this kind of thing, I actually like this old navy ad.

But we should already be boycotting Old Navy, they are owned by The Gap who is cutting down old redwoods (http://www.gapsucks.org/). Their previous commercials which were intentionally, painfully corny are reason enough to boycott them for an eternity.

e

[XNine]

It's better than them looking like whores when they're 13. Seriously, go to a mall, and these days 13 year old girls are wearing daisy dukes and playboy shirts and makeup. Some of them even expose clevage. It's like, "hey, what's up girrrrrrr- AAAAAAAAH! You're not old enough!"

Besides, if any girl is dumb enough to fall for this "I must vomit my food to look like a skelaton" routine, I say be gone with them, and their parents for not teaching them any better.

[Thomas Veil]

Well, I'll agree with ShovelHead while noting that despite a few changes for the better, too many women still look this way on TV, in movies, and especially in clothing ads and on fashion runways.

And it's not just the media and fashion designers that promote this unhealthy look. It seems quite a few guys have it in their heads that it's the way a woman "should" look. Despite the fact that it was a few years ago, I still remember the severe criticism Alicia Silverstone came in for when she appeared as Batgirl. Lots of guys made horrible disparaging remarks about how "fat" she was.

[Dr.Gargoyle]

She is skinny alright, but I would hardly describe her as a teenage boy. I wouldn't call her unnaturally skinny either. Skinny yeah, but nothing extreme. At least not here in Europe.
People really should divert more interest to their inside and care a bit less about the exterior.

[lem0n]

most models are models because of the way the clothes look on them anyway, lots of them are [sadly] born like that, skinny and tall, that's why there're so few -_- I have a friend who is a model and my adopted sister is miss vietnam, they eat like horse, really O_O [lots and lots of vegetable], and exercise because modeling is really energy consuming[at least from my experience, modeling for art classes is] and that model is not that anorexic skinny like Nicole Richie... urgh
and it is sad that lots of guy think it is the way a woman should look but I've ask my guy friends and they also said they refer a curvier girl, more things to "paw" at ;) most 13 years old I know know better than trying to be model thin while they're just lazing around the couch

[ShovelHead84]

the soft scientists and Oprah say that young girls ladies strive to the perfection that they see as the runway models and the Hollywood stars…

what they do not have the guts to say:
the fashion industry dictates those kine tastes and attitudes and the fashion industry is controlled by homosexuals and those that have an economic interest in being accepting influenced by the homosexuals that control the fashion industry and the homosexuals in the fashion industry like 14 yo boys and the way they look moreso than a chick with curves and boobs and bootie…

now after you are through calling me a bigot or a basher find a gay guy and ask him if there is validity in what i say…

i am not gay and don't have that kine intimate knowledge about gays…

i got my information from gay guys…

[mkrishnan]

My personal information disclaimer... I *have* an eating disorder and am in some sort of partially recovered state, I guess....

Okay, so I finally watched the video... Mmm, first, this is hardly the most egregious example of fashion advertising that is readily available. There are quite a few women in the ad, and most of them look more or less on the thinner side of the normal healthy weight range. A couple of them are thin, and to be fair, it is true that none of them look like they are on the higher end of a healthy weight range.

But, I've seen much, much, much more triggering advertisements. Most of the models in this are pretty, but there are so many commercials in fashion that set standards that are more unrealistic than those in this one that this one seems like a strange one to single out....

[yellow]

I'm sorry, but how is this any different than it's always been?
I am not condoning it, but this "issue" is nearing it's 40th birthday, no?

[ShovelHead84]

that ad is an example illustrative of the point…

i wouldn't say that is singling it out…

[yellow]

Just about EVERY ad illustrates that point, with the notable exception of whatever that soap/cosmetic company is that is using 'real' people as it's models. Dove, I think it is.

[beatzfreak]

1. it is not realistic to portray teen girls and young women thus…
2. ads like this one contributes significantly to peer pressure that results in eating disorders and other health and esteem issues…
3. Madison Avenue generally and the fashion industry in particular is responsible…

Madison Avenue?!
Botox and plastic surgery, yes, but teenage anorexia and bulimia, try Hollywood.

[ShovelHead84]

Hollywood is influenced as much no more than the teenager in Des Moines…

remember that red head girl that had the big boobs that everybody said was fake and now she weighs in at about 90 ppunds nad no boobies… she was in the Herbie movie…

[Kingsly]

http://www.oldnavy.com/customerService/info.do?cid=3152

Under TV ads.
That ad was stupid. It doesn't even deserve our precious time discussing it.

[yellow]

Hollywood is influenced as much no more than the teenager in Des Moines…

beatzfreak meant that Hollywood is more of an influence than Madison Ave.

[ShovelHead84]

i wasn't clear… sorry…

Madison Avenue influences Hollywood not the other way around… and the teen girl and the young ladies in their 20's too are influenced by Madison Avenue which takes its cues from the fashion industry that produce the clothes they hawk…

[Sogo]

But will i look like a pretty girl?


*I'm a boy*

[mkrishnan]

But will i look like a pretty girl?


*I'm a boy*

Not if you dress in clothes from Old Navy. God, no. :eek: ;)

[yellow]

Maybe if he got a wig and some skorts?

[vniow]

Maybe if he got a wig and some skorts?


Skorts are the dumbest fashion idea evar.

[yellow]

According to my wife, capri pants are the dumbest fashion ever.
Personally I think cutoff jeans are the dumbest ever. And possibly knit skullies for non-Muslims.

[hob]

I definitely have an opinion on this matter, I just don't really have much to cite when it comes to facts.

I remember hearing a few months back that a certain proportion of british schoolgirls were unhappy with the way they looked, and another proportion were considering or had had plastic surgery! The figures shocked me at the time, but I can't remember %'s anymore....

The point about gay men being in control of the industry, and thus they have no appreciation for a curvaceous woman is one I'd never heard of even considered before. But it certainly made me think!!

[CorvusCamenarum]

"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we must alter it every six months."

The above is courtesy of Oscar Wilde, who ironically spent a two years in a British prison for the crime of inversion (what they used to call being gay).

Old Navy commercials creep me out. They just seem so...fascist and cultish.

[ShovelHead84]

is it even worth noting that the particualr commercial that prompted this discussion is animated?

[XNine]

is it even worth noting that the particualr commercial that prompted this discussion is animated?

noooooooooooooooooooo. that's a real girl, I just checked it after freaking out.

[amateurmacfreak]

Yeah, I think she's a bit unattractively skinny. Slim, I can understand, but this is totally sending the wrong message....
Almost makes me feel fat @ 5'6" and 130lbs. :( and I know I'm not overweight....

[mkrishnan]

noooooooooooooooooooo. that's a real girl, I just checked it after freaking out.

Some of it did look CG'd to me on my one pass...but I haven't seen it on a full TV screen...just in a little QT embed. Is any of it CG?

[RacerX]

Hey, some of us girls actually do look like young teenage skinny boys. :DWhich is why women have often played the role of Peter Pan. :D


Beyond that... what women find attractive in women is often different than what men find attractive in women. There is an obvious difference in body type between the women you see in women's magazines and those you see in men's magazines... and it is playing on what the makers of those magazines feel will attract their target audience.

This ad seems to be aimed at getting women to buy these products... not make men hang out at old navy. The ad seems pretty targeted at women.


... and this is not to say that it shouldn't worry people, it should. Young girls are not only going to be attracted to the ad, many are going to have self image issues if they don't physically match that ideal.

In that way, I can understand why people find the ad troubling. :(

[Abstract]

The point about gay men being in control of the industry, and thus they have no appreciation for a curvaceous woman is one I'd never heard of even considered before. But it certainly made me think!!

Yeah, and it made me think how wrong that comment was.

If anything, lots of gay guys have a better perception of which women look beautiful, and which ones look ugly, but just happen to have big boobs and a handful of ass, which makes them popular amongst most guys. I don't think being a gay man means you prefer girls that look like guys.

And yes, the girls in the commercial are much much too skinny. Yes, it's unhealthy, and after being bombarded with this sort of image of women, I can understand why so many girls in real life have such an image issue.

[savar]

1. it is not realistic to portray teen girls and young women thus…
2. ads like this one contributes significantly to peer pressure that results in eating disorders and other health and esteem issues…
3. Madison Avenue generally and the fashion industry in particular is responsible…

Who's the boyish one? All the girls look pretty hot to me...perhaps a little too skinny but its hard to tell in that low-res video.

Won't argue with you about the image problems they create, though.

[beatzfreak]

i wasn't clear… sorry…

Madison Avenue influences Hollywood not the other way around… and the teen girl and the young ladies in their 20's too are influenced by Madison Avenue which takes its cues from the fashion industry that produce the clothes they hawk…

Why single out Madison Ave?

They have the same shops on Melrose and more young trendy shops also.

Madison Ave caters to the rich 40+ society ladies.

[interlaced]

It's funny that people notice the skinny girls in the Old Navy ad. After all, out of the Gap Inc. family, I think that Old Navy is the most accepting of big women offering XL-XXXL, a plus size section and a maternity section in most stores. But I'd hardly say that the main girl in the commercial looks at all like a "14-year-old boy" -- she's just as tall as the main guy! They did make sure to include a diverse mix of races, as they usually do with their printed ads as well, but I agree that they should have added people of different shapes and sizes.

That's my $.02 but I did work for the company for two years..

[jsw]

Well, not to put too fine a point on this, but are you (the OP) arguing that we should have overweight and unattractive people in ads? Yeah, that'd sell things.

The point - the whole point - of advertising is to improve sales. Thin, attractive people do so (improve sales) in ads because people like to see thin, attractive people. If people wanted to see overweight, unattractive people, then that's what the ads would show.

Does it cause young people to become anorexic? Maybe some. But the increasing numbers of obese people would suggest that it doesn't really cause a whole lot of people to go that route.

[Abstract]

They did make sure to include a diverse mix of races, as they usually do with their printed ads as well, but I agree that they should have added people of different shapes and sizes.

Yeah, I think I saw the requisite black girl, black guy, and asian girl in there, so they definitely met their requirements. ;)

[interlaced]

Yeah, I think I saw the requisite black girl, black guy, and asian girl in there, so they definitely met their requirements. ;)

Eh, well better having token ones than none at all. Not many people even notice the fact that most ads are biased. :rolleyes:

[jsw]

I'm beginning to think my earlier post was too blunt. What I meant was that ads feature those types because that's what sells. And they will continue to feature those types unless/until people want something different. It's not the fault of the ad agencies. It's the fault of the public. The ads merely reflect what we, in general, want to see.

The reality is that thin, attractive, tall people do better - all other things being equal - than the rest of us, so it's not exactly a false picture those ads are painting.

[LethalWolfe]

It's all f'ing fake. Getting depressed because you don't look like model X is about as pointless as getting depressed because you aren't a wizard like Harry Potter. They are both equal works of fiction.

Of course I find this usual complaint a bit sexist. What about boys? Is He-Man anymore of a realistic body type than Barbie? Don't you think a guy might think, "Man, girls would dig me a lot more if I looked like Brad Pitt." Or what about those ripped, male underwear models (lord knows not very many guys have bodies like that)?

Anyway, I'm off to kill myself now since I don't have dozens of people charging $700 a day each to make me look pretty for my movie/commercial/photo shoot.


Lethal

[Leareth]

OK she is way too thin , there are naturally skinny tall people ( my partner is 6'8" and 140lbs) but that isnt it...
bad message, ugly clothes, next...

come on we live in a society that label marilyn Monroe as plus sized, and I remember a couple years ago JLo was labelled as plus size...
why have the size charts changed, a size 10 is now a XL !!!! yes a size ten woman is now considered to be a plus size...:eek: if you dont believe me go to a 2nd hand store and buy a shirt from a well known chain and compare the same actual size shirt to the label size...

[ShovelHead84]

beatzfreak:
Madison Avenue is a metaphor… the ad agencies… anybody that is in the business of shaping public opinion…

i speak in metaphors a lot it is safe it is illustrative: i am an old guy old enough to remember the campaign and it was a campaign a campaign that Madison Avenue foist upon us the campaign to teach people to take their keys out of their car when left unattended… it shaped peoples mind changed behavior caused them to get away from the attitude that it was OK to leave the keys in the car and it was OK to shoot a guy if he tried to drive off with your car…

seems hard for even me to remember when people didnt steal cars…

before that most people felt it was their right to do certain things to protect themselves and that attitude protected us all… the bad guy couldnt be sure if the victim would shoot them or otherwise give them a lesson as to how to act…

after that we learned to change our lifestyle to accomodate the bad guy… we began to depend on the police authority to protect us… and we all know how effective that is certainly the bad guys know that doesnt work…

*
Abstract:
lots of gay guys have a better perception of which women look beautiful, and which ones look ugly…
*
my point exactly! gay guys are telling us what is beautiful…

there is a reason no emergency medicine types the guys that give roadside CPR in emergencies… there is a reason that none of them are allowed at the Miss America contest: they would roll out their gurneys and be off to the ER with half the contestants thinking they were in desperate need of help medical intervention… they would be giving them IV's on the way to the ER…

*
jsw:
ads feature those types because that's what sells. And they will continue to feature those types unless/until people want something different. It's not the fault of the ad agencies. It's the fault of the public. The ads merely reflect what we, in general, want to see.
*
i hate to burst your bubble…
Madison Avenue tells us what to want what to find beautiful acceptable… to say that they reflect attitudes of the masses misses the point: Madison Avenue does what it does: sells soap tells us what to think who to vote for whether or not a teacher should go to jail… Madison Avenue the metaphor mind you includes all of the media anyplace anywhere the public relation types hold court… if that wasn't true Howard Dean would be President…

[MACDRIVE]

BTW, vniow, nice icon. Rock out!

I keep wondering if that is actually her dancing in the avatar. :confused: :)

[jamesmcd]

Hey bring on the eating disorders and regurgitation! Hopefully it will negate the effects of eating at places like McDonalds, and make a nice balance. Actually, I blame the parents of overweight kids mostly.

[sushi]

She is skinny alright, but I would hardly describe her as a teenage boy. I wouldn't call her unnaturally skinny either. Skinny yeah, but nothing extreme. At least not here in Europe.
Seems normal to me too. Then again, I live in Japan where on average folks do not carry the weight that American's seem to these days.

I remember visiting the states with my wife for the first time. She was very surprised by the size of everyone.

...and I must admit, that I too was surprised to see just how big people were getting these days.

Of course huge serving portions might have something to do with it as well. My wife and I could easily share a meal they were so huge. Yet I would see most people eating a meal and desert.

People really should divert more interest to their inside and care a bit less about the exterior.
You got that right.

Outsides fade with time. What is left is the personality or lack there of it.

And as for valuables, your health is the most important. Once it goes, you're off the game board!

[BoyBach]

A fashion brand are using young attractive models to sell there clothes. Shock! Horror!

[vniow]

I keep wondering if that is actually her dancing in the avatar. :confused: :)

Yup.

[jsw]

...
Man, I don't even know where to begin.

People taking the law into their own hands = anarchy. Advocating that, are you?

Infants (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060124223317.htm) know beauty, and they aren't tainted by ad agencies. Get real.

Your posts seem a bit anti-gay to me. I hope I'm misreading them.

Miss America pageants aren't filled with women so sick that EMT's would rush them to a hospital. You seem to equate thin to sick. Anorexic to sick, yes, I can see that. Thin? Show me the studies. Most I've seen show the opposite.

And Howard Stern being president if it weren't for PR firms? Um, yeah... Stern is such the oppressed person with no PR on his side.

I'm neither thin nor beautiful, but I see no reason to say that those who are are only considered attractive because we've been told to do so.

[mkrishnan]

I'm neither thin nor beautiful, but I see no reason to say that those who are are only considered attractive because we've been told to do so.

JSW is beautiful to us in his own way, though. *loves the Mac fams* :)

[jsw]

JSW is beautiful to us in his own way, though. *loves the Mac fams* :)Thanks. :) I am drop dead sexy (rubs belly, leers), but not beautiful. I used to be, but I ate too many of those snacks Madison Avenue forced down my throat.

[mkrishnan]

Thanks. :) I am drop dead sexy (rubs belly, leers), but not beautiful. I used to be, but I ate too many of those snacks Madison Avenue forced down my throat.

Yeah, the best strategy is to starve yourself and spend the money on more Macs. :eek: :D

(yeah, yeah, I've done enough starving myself. I'm not advocating the development of eating disorders...you don't want to do this to yourself, as I well know....)

[princealfie]

Yeah, the whole industry is all f-ed up to be honest. Seriously in great needs of a makeover!

Word seriously peace out. That gay conspiracy in fashion got me wondering now...

That's why I like hiphop fashion. I like my girls phat!

[zap2]

she's fine, she clearly not fat, but i would say her weight is nothing to hurt her(or anyone trying to look like her)

And she NOT 14:rolleyes:

Reading to much into something?

[BakedBeans]

I might have the complete wrong end of the stick but are we talking about this girl?


http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/6982/picture10ab.jpg

Cos if we are... youre nuts

[ShovelHead84]

jsw:
"And Howard Stern being president if it weren't for PR firms? Um, yeah..."

Howard Dean! Howard Dean!… Hmm… maybe his first name isnt Howard… anyway the guy in the Demo primaries that was shown over and over yelling to pump up the crowd for another win that was not to be because Madison Avenue the media got on his back and stayed there… (incidentally my point is further illustrated: very much after the fact it was revealed that the clips that were played over and over that made him sound out of control that was very well received by his supporters in the auditorium where he appeared was the result of some creative (electronic) editing that focused in on a single microphone that was enhanced and didnt accurately portray what the audience there heard nor the true tenor of his joyous outburst…)

jsw:
"Your posts seem a bit anti-gay to me. I hope I'm misreading them."

obviously you risk that accusation if you find fault with the gay agenda… and make no mistake about it like it or not there is an agenda to portray fashion with a particular body type and that means that chicks that look like real women need not apply… can we agree that things would be very different the models would look very different if designers of the ilk of that fat Australian lady (Emme?) were staffing the runways?… (and before you grab the keyboard 'fat' is not a perjorative in my lexicon… (smiles))

i have written a few commercials have been in one even when i was a young person in Japan have been around where they were made in the production and post-production phase of the process and have for as long as i remember enjoyed the company of many gays in my professional and private life and i doubt anyone of them that know me would say i am anti…

and frankly importantly i wouldnt have the fashion industry devoid of gays… their talent cannot be understated (maybe i mean overstated)…

i refuse to ignore their presence their influence and the harm they have done to the picture that we have of beauty and most of all i call your attention to the soft scientists that have the solutions without having the guts to focus on the problem… again it is no secret among the gay community involved in the fashion industry: the runway models are chosen because the gay designers choose types that they find attractive that will look great in their designs and when the call is made they insist on girls that look like 14 yo boys (their words not mine)…


BakedBeans:

yeah that is the one…

nobody is saying implying she is not attractive but when i was young the teachers would have sent a note home to her parents asking if she is eating enough (in the vernacular of that time: "Does Jenny have a tapeworm?")

anyway this post is beginning to feel tedious maybe…

there were some great insights expressed though… thanks…

(i wish i knew how to use those cutes little faces thingys so my smiles and tongue in cheek were evident)…

[lilstewart]

I don't think she looks like a 14-year-old boy. This is what a 14-year-old boy looks like. (actuallly they only rarely look this good. Most of the time they're wearing baggy pants and ripped up t-shirts)
Or this.
http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48445

OK, Ok, I could've done better with the hair.

Damn curls. :o

[corywoolf]

Jail bait eye candy, this is why I hate Old Navy. That chick (that everyone ducks behind at the end) turned me on. Innocent Britney Spears all over again. :rolleyes: Old Navy is to today, what the houses in the 1940s/50s were then.

[Peace]

Skinny or not I will say the Old Navy commercials have gotten better..They used to be so..so...umm...campy?..At Least the new commercial has some decent music..

[corywoolf]

Skinny or not I will say the Old Navy commercials have gotten better..They used to be so..so...umm...campy?..At Least the new commercial has some decent music..
:eek: lol, you are joking... right? :confused:

[yellow]

my point exactly! gay guys are telling us what is beautiful…

No one tells me who is beautiful and who isn't.
Perhaps you're convinced that you're influenced in this way..

[Abstract]

If that's a 14 year old boy, then call me a homosexual pedophile, cuz I'd **** that 5 times til sunrise.

[iGary]

<_______>

Your head is indeed made of metal, as your username implies.

Good day. :)

[Plymouthbreezer]

If that's a 14 year old boy, then call me a homosexual pedophile, cuz I'd **** that 5 times til sunrise.
Yeah, is the OP talking about her? She looks more like she's 18-20. And she is fairly attractive in my opinion. :o

[vniow]

obviously you risk that accusation if you find fault with the gay agenda… and make no mistake about it like it or not there is an agenda to portray fashion with a particular body type and that means that chicks that look like real women need not apply…

For the longest time I thought the gay agenda was recruiting more people into their "cult", changing the definition of marriage and fooling the rest of the population into beleiving that they're normal.

Now you've enlightened me. The real gay agenda is fashion.

[aquajet]

Now you've enlightened me. The real gay agenda is fashion.

Well ****. I guess I'm not really gay then since my fashion sense is, well, decidedly hetero. Guess I'll call up the BF this afternoon and tell him the whole thing's off...

[artur]

does anybody know the name of the model in the madras ad?
thanks.
art

[CompUser]

No one should be shopping there anyways. :)

I hate their commercials, their physical stores, their clothes, and the name itself.


I also hate their marketing tactic, say that everything is on sale, but its not, it always costs $19 or w/e, not $34.

[bumpy]

The thing I don't get is why women want to look like fashion models. Fashion models are meant to be a bit plain so as not to draw too much attention away from the clothes, they also aren't meant to have curves, as that "spoils" the way the clothes hang. Nude models are the oposite, the moral of this, and one that more people should listen to, is: Nobody wants to see a fashion model naked.

[jelloshotsrule]

...the moral of this, and one that more people should listen to, is: Nobody wants to see a fashion model naked.

tell that to the paparazzi who try to get nude photos on beaches of various models.


in general i hear what shovel man is saying about society ("madison avenue") defining beauty in an all too often unhealthy way. but can't say i'm down with the over emphasis on the gay community's role in that...