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MacRumors
May 31, 2006, 11:22 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider is reporting (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1778) that developers were seeded an updated version of Mac OS 10.4.7 late last week. All major issues with the previous build (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/05/20060517144116.shtml) appear to have been resolved, which indicate a release may be imminent.

Mac OS 10.4.7 will be the minor OS update by Apple and is expected to deliver bug fixes and enhancements to Mail, Safari, Aperture, Syncing and iChat. The current version, 10.4.6, was released (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060403161758.shtml) on April 3, 2006.

kinless
May 31, 2006, 11:25 AM
No OS X series has ever ended on the same number

10.0.4
10.1.5
10.2.8
10.3.9
10.4.7?

Either stop here or press on to 10.4.10. :)

alienyouth211
May 31, 2006, 11:26 AM
Maybe Mail won't be ugly anymore....

kasei
May 31, 2006, 11:26 AM
I hope so. Safari has been driving me crazy. My RSS articles stopped working about two weeks ago and there is a serious lag when pages load.

Mike Teezie
May 31, 2006, 11:28 AM
Hopefully so, and the fans in my PM will stop going crazy all the time.

AvSRoCkCO1067
May 31, 2006, 11:33 AM
Maybe Mail won't be ugly anymore....

I don't really mind how mail looks...in fact, it looks a heck-of-a-lot better than Microsoft Outlook 2007...

bretm
May 31, 2006, 11:33 AM
Maybe Mail won't be ugly anymore....

?? I think the 10.4.x mail is awesome. Hopefully Safari and other apps will follow suit. The got rid of the ridiculous "drawer" concept which was so un-Apple from day 1. All it did was not take advantage of useable space at the top and bottom. The new blue area that replaced it is much better use of space and more attractive. The icons are streamlined, and it took on the new interface lighter grey (non-brushed) look. Very nice. And it works better than 10.3 mail too of course.

mkrishnan
May 31, 2006, 11:35 AM
Stop here. :)

*le sigh* Yes, that's exactly what Apple should do.

abscond
May 31, 2006, 11:35 AM
10.0.4
10.1.5
10.2.8
10.3.9
10.4.7?


All that says to me is that there is more and more each time.

IEatApples
May 31, 2006, 11:37 AM
Maybe Mail won't be ugly anymore....I wouldn't expect any visual changes until the "BIG ONE". ;)

macaddict06
May 31, 2006, 11:39 AM
No OS X series has ever ended on the same number

10.0.4
10.1.5
10.2.8
10.3.9
10.4.7?

Stop here. :)

Seems like wishful thinking to me. Personally, I would be happy to get another update (10.4.8) maybe in October-ish? Keep in mind that Leopard will not be out until late this year or early next. Besides, eventually, Apple will have to stop on the same number, at least sometime by 10.9.x :D. In any case, any update is good news for me, at least it will give me my Mac fix until WWDC, maybe ;).

simply258
May 31, 2006, 11:42 AM
my safari eats up all my RAM !

Kingsly
May 31, 2006, 11:42 AM
I wouldn't expect any visual changes until the "BIG ONE". ;)
"Im coming to join you Elizabeth, ridin' all the way on 10.5!" :p

realityisterror
May 31, 2006, 11:43 AM
How have we still not heard more about Leopard!! :eek:

Gah!

NinjaMonkey
May 31, 2006, 11:43 AM
I just hope 10.4.7 adds CoreImage support for my cameras RAW format. I'd love to give Apple some money for a copy of Aperture but it is useless to me if ORF files aren't supported.

QPlot
May 31, 2006, 11:46 AM
hey, I've seen couple of articles saying how good safari is; but so far seriously it's just not usable for me. (i tried to use it after each updates)

a lot slow compare to Opera, even firefox. Werid, cause this is native mac app. I never understand why? Even when I am at school using a T3 connection. ??????

for compatibility issues ( i mean to view all the websites correctly), it's as bad as firefox. maybe less crash, but not viewable either.

I just stick with Opera for now :eek:

daneoni
May 31, 2006, 11:46 AM
No OS X series has ever ended on the same number

10.0.4
10.1.5
10.2.8
10.3.9
10.4.7?

Stop here. :)

I wouldnt be surprised if go up to 10.4.9.1 i.e version 1, version 2 (10.4.9.2) etc, Tiger is longest running OS (April 04-Present) if i remember correctly and is the most advance and apparently required/requires a lot of tweaking.

starflyer
May 31, 2006, 11:47 AM
All that says to me is that there is more and more each time.

I think your right...Dashboard...Spotlight...Exposť...

jonharris200
May 31, 2006, 11:50 AM
I wonder if with Leopard, we will somehow see the boundaries blurring between operating system and web browser, in a kind of Web 2.0 way.

shadowmoses
May 31, 2006, 11:51 AM
These incremental updates are always welcome but they never amount to anything really noticeable, I very much doubt this will be the last update if anything Tiger will probably keep on going until 10.4.12///

ShadoW

bretm
May 31, 2006, 11:52 AM
hey, I've seen couple of articles saying how good safari is; but so far seriously it's just not usable for me. (i tried to use it after each updates)

a lot slow compare to Opera, even firefox. Werid, cause this is native mac app. I never understand why? Even when I am at school using a T3 connection. ??????

for compatibility issues ( i mean to view all the websites correctly), it's as bad as firefox. maybe less crash, but not viewable either.

I just stick with Opera for now :eek:

Being a web designer I can tell ya neither FF or Opera display sites correctly. Neither does IE, but that's always been the case. FF and Opera just don't implement all the current standards. Neither does Safari, but it's a lot closer.

Plus the design of the tabs and interface is just light years ahead of anyone. They are all the same as far as speed goes as far as I can tell these days.

Something could be wrong with your system, but I think it's just all in your head. :)

Mac_Freak
May 31, 2006, 11:54 AM
Looks like Apple is almost done with tweaking Tiger, this update concentrates more on fixing bugs in apps than system itself.

CHROMEDOME
May 31, 2006, 11:54 AM
I wouldnt be surprised if go up to 10.4.9.1 i.e version 1, version 2 (10.4.9.2) etc, Tiger is longest running OS (April 04-Present) if i remember correctly and is the most advance and apparently required/requires a lot of tweaking.

Tiger is about a year and a month old.

Cubert
May 31, 2006, 11:54 AM
Nice observation, Kinless!

If 10.4.7 is released soon, then we can expect to see 10.4.8 around the time of WWDC (they always put out a new update around WWDC if new hardware is released, which everyone expects will happen). That puts 10.4.9 out in October, or November at the latest. 10.5 will likely be released in January. So, does anyone think there will be a 10.4.10 (not 10.4.9.1) sandwiched in there?

mtrctyjoe
May 31, 2006, 11:59 AM
Dear God... please FIX SAFARI. It is SLOW and does multi-media VERY POORLY.

As a switcher, I must admit I love my MAC, but the app I use the most is Safari and it does not run 1/2 as good as IE on my $299 Dell - hate to say it - but TRUE!

APPLE YOUR BROWSER IS POKEY - FIX IT!

daneoni
May 31, 2006, 12:00 PM
Tiger is about a year and a month old.

My bad i meant April 05-Present (typo), still the longest i think, if we aren't getting the next major OS till January

daneoni
May 31, 2006, 12:01 PM
Nice observation, Kinless!

If 10.4.7 is released soon, then we can expect to see 10.4.8 around the time of WWDC (they always put out a new update around WWDC if new hardware is released, which everyone expects will happen). That puts 10.4.9 out in October, or November at the latest. 10.5 will likely be released in January. So, does anyone think there will be a 10.4.10 (not 10.4.9.1) sandwiched in there?

My thoughts exactly, i wouldn't be surprised at all

daneoni
May 31, 2006, 12:02 PM
Dear God... please FIX SAFARI. It is SLOW and does multi-media VERY POORLY.

As a switcher, I must admit I love my MAC, but the app I use the most is Safari and it does not run 1/2 as good as IE on my $299 Dell - hate to say it - but TRUE!

APPLE YOUR BROWSER IS POKEY - FIX IT!

Agreed. Safari could definately use some tweaking.

aricher
May 31, 2006, 12:04 PM
I'm beyond caring about incremental updates anymore. Can't wait until MacWorld 2007. New OS, new MacBooks. Adobe should have it's act together by then as well. I'm holding off on buying anything until then.

longofest
May 31, 2006, 12:06 PM
my safari eats up all my RAM !

Have you ever seen Firefox? I start out with 35 MB memory usage, and I can easily grow to over 100 MB with just 5 minutes of browsing. No browser should use up that much memory, I don't care if it is for a purpose or not. Use the hard disk.. that's what it's for.

As for other comments on stopping at 10.4.7. I don't want to see Apple stop until ALL buggs are quashed. So if we have to go to 10.4.15, so be it. Even if Leopard comes out and Tiger still has bugs, keep updating Tiger for pete's sake (other than just security updates). I know it doesn't normally happen, but they really should.

KindredMAC
May 31, 2006, 12:08 PM
how about fix for the annoying text glitch in dashboard for the calendar and stock ticker??????

dr_lha
May 31, 2006, 12:11 PM
How have we still not heard more about Leopard!! :eek:

Gah!
Its not like you don't already know when details of Leopard are coming (WWDC). Be patient!! ;)

ChrisA
May 31, 2006, 12:12 PM
The processing of digital camera RAW file formats is handled by Core Image which is part of Mac OSX. The need to keep this up to date will require frequent update "forever"

I work in software development, not on OSX but on any large software system developers can make any number of improvments every day even to software that people use and like. Every week we have a meeting (users, managers, developers) to review the "to do" list and set priorities and decide if enough is done to call it a new version. What typically limits the release is the need to do configuration control, full regression testing and other quality controls, these all eat into development time. So you strike a balance and release every six to eight weeks.

So what I'm saying is that I would expect if they are doing their job, updates to come out every so often, forever

cyberdogl2
May 31, 2006, 12:13 PM
as long as they're free i'll take anything.

bretm
May 31, 2006, 12:13 PM
Have you ever seen Firefox? I start out with 35 MB memory usage, and I can easily grow to over 100 MB with just 5 minutes of browsing. No browser should use up that much memory, I don't care if it is for a purpose or not. Use the hard disk.. that's what it's for.

As for other comments on stopping at 10.4.7. I don't want to see Apple stop until ALL buggs are quashed. So if we have to go to 10.4.15, so be it. Even if Leopard comes out and Tiger still has bugs, keep updating Tiger for pete's sake (other than just security updates). I know it doesn't normally happen, but they really should.

100mb is really nothing. How much RAM do you have in your machine? OSX will use the hard disk and page in/out when you switch apps. It works wonders. You don't want it using the hard disk for RAM vs. RAM for RAM. Hundreds of times slower. Terrible idea. The hard disk is not there or that! Get some RAM. A couple gigs at least.

weitzner
May 31, 2006, 12:14 PM
i use safari and i have no problems, my biggest gripes are that i can't make a new tab by double-clicking the tab bar and that there is no separate bookmark that automatically contains all of your rss subscriptions. other than that, i think safari is the best (at least for Mac)

4God
May 31, 2006, 12:14 PM
Agreed. Safari could definately use some tweaking.


Safari works fine for me now that I'm on an Intel iMac. It did act a little quirky
and reeeeeeaaalllly lllaaaagged sometimes on my Quad. Maybe a fix specifically for PPC versions. ;)

61132
May 31, 2006, 12:16 PM
Hopefully right-click on mbp's !!?? Its such a neat feature, I am using the hack right now, but I have to go into preferences every time I reboot

ifjake
May 31, 2006, 12:17 PM
No OS X series has ever ended on the same number

10.0.4
10.1.5
10.2.8
10.3.9
10.4.7?

Stop here. :)

All that says to me is that there is more and more each time.

Agreed, and to revive a tired old argument ... 10.4.10?

ChrisA
May 31, 2006, 12:23 PM
... I don't want to see Apple stop until ALL buggs are quashed.

Have you ever seen a plot of the estimate of bugs remaining in sodftware vs. time? It's a curve that is steep near zero (new software has many bugs but these are removed quickly) and then the curve flattens to become nearly horizontal and in theory only reaches zero at infinity.

Bottom line here is that modern software theory says that "ALL buggs are quashed" only in infinite time. The Sun will explode before the last bug is found. The positive way to say this is that as software matures the rate of bug _discovery_ approaches zero. When uses don't see and discover bugs the software LOOKS good but that does not mean they are not there. The low discovery rate drives the low removal rate and the low removal rate means some bugs will stay in basically forever.

ImAlwaysRight
May 31, 2006, 12:24 PM
Safari works fine for me now that I'm on an Intel iMac.
I have no trouble playing cnn.com videos on my iMac G5. Cannot play them on my Intel MacBook, though. :(

treblah
May 31, 2006, 12:26 PM
Hopefully right-click on mbp's !!??

Ditto. How has a simple update not been delivered yet? :rolleyes:

daneoni
May 31, 2006, 12:28 PM
Have you ever seen Firefox? I start out with 35 MB memory usage, and I can easily grow to over 100 MB with just 5 minutes of browsing. No browser should use up that much memory, I don't care if it is for a purpose or not. Use the hard disk.. that's what it's for.

As for other comments on stopping at 10.4.7. I don't want to see Apple stop until ALL buggs are quashed. So if we have to go to 10.4.15, so be it. Even if Leopard comes out and Tiger still has bugs, keep updating Tiger for pete's sake (other than just security updates). I know it doesn't normally happen, but they really should.

You might wanna look here (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1327586/posts) and here (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/ben/archives/009749.html) to see if you can solve your issues....if any. Personally i'd try the second link

shawnce
May 31, 2006, 12:35 PM
Hopefully so, and the fans in my PM will stop going crazy all the time.

Does a little red light come on near the power button (but inside the case) when the fan are "going crazy"?

If so then the computer thinks that the air dam isn't in place. If it is in place then the one likely source of the issue is a faulty door sensor which is based on an optical sensor. Look for the silver / white covered tab on the plastic air dam (lower right tab IIRC). When the fans are going crazy try shining a flashlight down into the slot related to that tab to see if causes the fans to go back to normal (sense is toward the inside of box in the slot).

If the sensor appears to be at fault you may want to get your system serviced.

Pedro Estarque
May 31, 2006, 12:51 PM
Maybe we can get a proper JPEG CMYK preview instead of an inverted one.
The fact that bug like this could survive for so long in the platform that invented the Desktop Publishing industry is truly sad.

JW Pepper
May 31, 2006, 12:54 PM
OSX is done really, there are few bugs and no major changes are needed fro PPC. Lepoard is really for Intel, I am sure of that and doubt I will get lepoad for any PPC machines.

However, Safari is dog slow now. I don't know what has happened to it but compared to browsers like Camino it is hopless. I use Safari as default because my bookmarks sync with iSync and I know where I am but it still cannot render many pages correctly and is very slow. I prefer the Safari Tabs to those of any other browser. iPhoto is a mess, we have had several updates and yet we still cannot make sub albums/folders consequently my Album list just gets longer and more un-manageable.

Abulia
May 31, 2006, 12:58 PM
Agreed, and to revive a tired old argument ... 10.4.10?You're evil.

encro
May 31, 2006, 01:03 PM
Its not like you don't already know when details of Leopard are coming (WWDC). Be patient!! ;)

I'm going to take a guess that Apple will announce something official in the next 18 days regarding Leopard.

Peace
May 31, 2006, 01:04 PM
OSX is done really, there are few bugs and no major changes are needed fro PPC. Lepoard is really for Intel, I am sure of that and doubt I will get lepoad for any PPC machines.

However, Safari is dog slow now. I don't know what has happened to it but compared to browsers like Camino it is hopless. I use Safari as default because my bookmarks sync with iSync and I know where I am but it still cannot render many pages correctly and is very slow. I prefer the Safari Tabs to those of any other browser. iPhoto is a mess, we have had several updates and yet we still cannot make sub albums/folders consequently my Album list just gets longer and more un-manageable.


OS X is OS 10.* and is not "done"..There is no way Apple will abandon O/S support for the PPC for at least 2 more years..
Leopard is for both platforms..Trust me.I know ;)

aeneas07
May 31, 2006, 01:05 PM
Has anyone heard anything about Apple adding support for a2dp bluetooth? From my understanding the hardware used currently should be able to support the profile and it would make bluetooth headphones 3 million times better on a mac.

sphereboy
May 31, 2006, 01:07 PM
I hope so. Safari has been driving me crazy. My RSS articles stopped working about two weeks ago and there is a serious lag when pages load.

i had this problem. I found it was due to my .mac sync settings being set to automatic. If you put your settings to something other than automatic your RSS feeds should start working again.

Hope it helps.

Applespider
May 31, 2006, 01:08 PM
iPhoto is a mess, we have had several updates and yet we still cannot make sub albums/folders consequently my Album list just gets longer and more un-manageable.

Speak for yourself. I'm sitting looking at my iPhoto (6 tho I thought the functionality appeared in 5) sidebar which has several folders with various books/slideshows/folders tucked inside each one.

sphereboy
May 31, 2006, 01:10 PM
Maybe Mail won't be ugly anymore....

Mail looks fine.
What I really would like is a vertical display system. Something that along the lines of MS Outlook where you have 3 columns and your able to view a full email on one column. All these new widescreen monitors but Mail keeps using the age old 1 column 2 row look.

That would be a much welcome revision in my book. I'd even pay for it. Which will probably happen in Leopard.

daneoni
May 31, 2006, 01:17 PM
Slightly off topic but why can't they get rid of the brushed metal look in apps such as Safari, Address Book, Calender etc like they did with iTunes and the whole iLife suit of apps and replace them with Aqua. I think its way better looking

bretm
May 31, 2006, 01:27 PM
Slightly off topic but why can't they get rid of the brushed metal look in apps such as Safari, Address Book, Calender etc like they did with iTunes and the whole iLife suit of apps and replace them with Aqua. I think its way better looking

Same reason the haven't ditched it in the finder I suppose. All new versions are taking on the new look. But lots of apps don't get updated totally until the os does or until iLife does (as you mentioned).

I've hated the brushed metal since day 1.

iKarl
May 31, 2006, 01:34 PM
WMV/AVI/ETC PLUGIN FOR SAFARI AND QT

I cannot emphasize that enough. Release codecs for QT to play that crap, so I don't have to open VLC or some other third party app after trying to download some video clip. Or trying to watch clips on Yahoo Movies, which doesn't detect QT on Intel Macs, or at least mine. Any wmv/avi/etc clip that is integrated into a page and not a downloadable file, you're screwed. Safaris integrated media playing functions blow hardcore. All that stuff has to run under emulation with Safari, clogging up system resources. Can't we get a native wmv/avi/etc codec for intel macs, and have it included in QT/Safari? :confused: :confused:

I like Safari as a browser, I don't want to have to use IE or Firefox. I haven't had any problems with the pages loading etc., but that's probably due to 2 gigs of ram, Intel Mini or not.

So far, to get any integrated file that's one of those files to play, you have to either boot up safari and plugins under rosetta, or boot up XP with Boot Camp. And the audio bugs in Boot Camp with headphones not cutting off speakers is quite annoying, particularly in a workplace if I want to watch CNN, etc on my break.

Gah! :mad:

/rant over

Just frustrating considering the ease of use that accompanies most things on a Mac, only to get a jumble of third party apps etc to run those files on new Macs. If I wanted a plethora of third party apps, I'd use XP all the time :rolleyes:

I know AVI isn't the best of formats because it combines the a/v into one stream etc, but there are still many of those files around. The WMV one is what i'd like more for QT. Just something straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak, and not having to go third party. If new switchers buy a mac and boot up safari, only to realize half the files on news sites, yahoo, etc. can't be viewed....needless to say if I was a switcher I'd be a bit confuzzled.

And don't bother with the "well XP doesn't play AVI/Divx natively". XP is a crap OS. OSX should be above that.

firsttube
May 31, 2006, 01:37 PM
Dear God... please FIX SAFARI. It is SLOW and does multi-media VERY POORLY.

As a switcher, I must admit I love my MAC, but the app I use the most is Safari and it does not run 1/2 as good as IE on my $299 Dell - hate to say it - but TRUE!

APPLE YOUR BROWSER IS POKEY - FIX IT!

That hasn't been my experience (with Safari), however, there are several other nice web browsers out there for mac. Firefox, Camino, Opera - I'm looking at you (among others).

sam10685
May 31, 2006, 01:40 PM
No OS X series has ever ended on the same number

10.0.4
10.1.5
10.2.8
10.3.9
10.4.7?

Either stop here or press on to 10.4.10. :)

10.4.10 is silly. that's like 10.4.1 almost. it'll be 10.4.9.1 if it goes past 10.4.9

Doctor Q
May 31, 2006, 01:49 PM
Apple has yet to fix the iChat window migration bug that still annoys me regularly.

javajawa
May 31, 2006, 01:49 PM
10.4.10 is silly. that's like 10.4.1 almost. it'll be 10.4.9.1 if it goes past 10.4.9

I highly doubt it. "Normal" software versioning would make it 10.4.10, not 10.4.9.x. I wouldn't expect Apple to suddenly add another number onto their versioning scheme either.

Lollypop
May 31, 2006, 02:03 PM
Lot of applications go over x.10 (SAPGUI 6.40 release 4), I know of a few errors in the java implimentation of the intel macs, hopefully they fix that.

MacBoobsPro
May 31, 2006, 02:07 PM
Quicktime 7.1.1 is available now so 10.4.7 should follow it out VERY soon. They usually send out Quicktime first! :D

MacBoobsPro
May 31, 2006, 02:09 PM
10.4.10 is silly. that's like 10.4.1 almost. it'll be 10.4.9.1 if it goes past 10.4.9

I think he jokingly means 10.5

DSL Steve
May 31, 2006, 02:10 PM
10.4.10 is silly.

10.4.10 = 10.5

thogs_cave
May 31, 2006, 02:12 PM
I don't want to see Apple stop until ALL buggs are quashed. So if we have to go to 10.4.15, so be it. Even if Leopard comes out and Tiger still has bugs, keep updating Tiger for pete's sake (other than just security updates). I know it doesn't normally happen, but they really should.

Tell me about it. Somehow, the NFS automounter broke in 10.4.3 and hasn't been fixed as of yet. As a result, all my users are staying at 10.3.9 or (in a few cases) 10.4.2.

I've had more issues with Tiger than any other version of OS X, except perhaps for the public beta. It's almost as if someone at Apple is intent on cramming more and more into the OS and testing it less and less.

MacBoobsPro
May 31, 2006, 02:18 PM
Tell me about it. Somehow, the NFS automounter broke in 10.4.3 and hasn't been fixed as of yet. As a result, all my users are staying at 10.3.9 or (in a few cases) 10.4.2.

I've had more issues with Tiger than any other version of OS X, except perhaps for the public beta. It's almost as if someone at Apple is intent on cramming more and more into the OS and testing it less and less.

It wouldnt really make sense to do that because in a way they are updating it with 10.5. What would that be called? Back updating? Its a contradiction?! :D

tmornini
May 31, 2006, 02:28 PM
10.4.10 = 10.5

Not true. From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Version):


The most common software versioning scheme is a scheme in which different major releases of the software each receive a unique numerical identifier. This is typically expressed as three numbers, separated by periods, such as version 2.4.13. One very commonly followed structure for these numbers is:

major.minor[.revision[.build]]


To fully understand what's going on, check this (http://www.perforce.com/perforce/life.html) out, paying particular attention to the section titled: "The Perforce Reference Life-Cycle Model". I'm not suggesting that Apple uses their product, or that their model is only, or best, model. But it does provide a clear description of what the version numbers represent.

Nermal
May 31, 2006, 02:30 PM
I'm looking forward to the new video drivers, apparently they're a substantial improvement. Hopefully International Prefs has been fixed too, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

IEatApples
May 31, 2006, 02:38 PM
10.4.10 = 10.5Logical, but I think it's really free for all, as Apple has not made a choice yet. I see no problem with 10.4.11, and I even think this is the only "correct" way of doing it. :)

Core Trio
May 31, 2006, 02:39 PM
10.4.10 is silly. that's like 10.4.1 almost. it'll be 10.4.9.1 if it goes past 10.4.9


No...it really wont though.

yellow5
May 31, 2006, 02:45 PM
The correct versioning would be 10.4.10 not 10.4.9.1 ...

x.9 is no the end all be all of versioning, look at World of Warcraft it's at 1.10 right now with 1.11 on the way.

There is no rule that you can only have 9 minor revisions.

bousozoku
May 31, 2006, 02:50 PM
Apple should just change 10.4.7 to 10.4.10 to end this silly debate.

They've got a long time before 10.5.x is ready, so they could be at 10.4.23 by the time they have a replacement.

I just hope that 10.4.7 cleans up and speeds up things.

gekko513
May 31, 2006, 02:56 PM
Apple should just change 10.4.7 to 10.4.10 to end this silly debate.
I agree it would be nice to not have this debate every time there is a point upgrade to Mac OS X.

So just to say this once more. The version number isn't a decimal number. Who has heard of a decimal number with two periods? Those are three integers separated by periods.

brepublican
May 31, 2006, 03:01 PM
If Apple can fix the following, I would not be offended:

1. iPhoto. Whenever I open iPhoto, everything on my PB comes to a standstill. I know it uses a lot of RAM but c'mon, does every single app thats open have to beachball for 2 min until iPhoto is done loading my measly 1,700 photos? I'm sick. Sick and tired.

2. Safari. There has been enough said about it, support for media is very poor, even with the stupid Flip4Mac plug in.

3. iTunes (4.9) intergration with address book, iPhoto, etc. Takes forever to update on iPod.

ChrisA
May 31, 2006, 03:01 PM
10.4.10 is silly. that's like 10.4.1 almost. it'll be 10.4.9.1 if it goes past 10.4.9

You are interpeting the "dot" as a decimal point. It is not the case because there are TWO dots in the version number. In this case we Americans should read the dot as a if it were a comma. Those in Europe, I asume would prefer to see the "dot" as they use a comma as a decimal place. We could use dashes but then someone, I'm sure would complian that 10-4-7 is a negative number

If I were to invent a system. I'd use a combination of roman numerals, Arabic numberal, and mixed case Latin alphabitic leters and then change the system eery couple years. So we'd have

Mac OS Xiv2a
Mac OS XB3iii
Max OS XIb3
and so on. This would insure that sites like this would have importent things to talk about for years to come

For those that missed the joke. Do you remember how UNIX version were named? Not unlike the above.

netdog
May 31, 2006, 03:04 PM
I agree it would be nice to not have this debate every time there is a point upgrade to Mac OS X.

So just to say this once more. The version number isn't a decimal number. Who has heard of a decimal number with two periods? Those are three integers separated by periods.

...he said, thereby continuing the debate :p

fblack
May 31, 2006, 03:14 PM
WMV/AVI/ETC PLUGIN FOR SAFARI AND QT

I cannot emphasize that enough. Release codecs for QT to play that crap, so I don't have to open VLC or some other third party app after trying to download some video clip. Or trying to watch clips on Yahoo Movies, which doesn't detect QT on Intel Macs, or at least mine. Any wmv/avi/etc clip that is integrated into a page and not a downloadable file, you're screwed. Safaris integrated media playing functions blow hardcore. All that stuff has to run under emulation with Safari, clogging up system resources. Can't we get a native wmv/avi/etc codec for intel macs, and have it included in QT/Safari? :confused: :confused:

I like Safari as a browser, I don't want to have to use IE or Firefox. I haven't had any problems with the pages loading etc., but that's probably due to 2 gigs of ram, Intel Mini or not.

So far, to get any integrated file that's one of those files to play, you have to either boot up safari and plugins under rosetta, or boot up XP with Boot Camp. And the audio bugs in Boot Camp with headphones not cutting off speakers is quite annoying, particularly in a workplace if I want to watch CNN, etc on my break.

Gah! :mad:

/rant over

Just frustrating considering the ease of use that accompanies most things on a Mac, only to get a jumble of third party apps etc to run those files on new Macs. If I wanted a plethora of third party apps, I'd use XP all the time :rolleyes:

I know AVI isn't the best of formats because it combines the a/v into one stream etc, but there are still many of those files around. The WMV one is what i'd like more for QT. Just something straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak, and not having to go third party. If new switchers buy a mac and boot up safari, only to realize half the files on news sites, yahoo, etc. can't be viewed....needless to say if I was a switcher I'd be a bit confuzzled.

And don't bother with the "well XP doesn't play AVI/Divx natively". XP is a crap OS. OSX should be above that.


I agree with most of this. I cant watch WMV from atomfilms on my mac.:(

Tiger was running smoothly on my QS and I couldn't understand why everyone was complaining about safari. But the last update really messed things up. There's a noticeable sluggishness on my system now, and apps like safari and even itunes just up and quit by themselves even if they are the only app running.:confused:

So I had no bugs until the bug fixes. Hopefully this new round will restore some of my previous funtionality.

spyderracer393
May 31, 2006, 03:18 PM
I wouldnt be surprised if go up to 10.4.9.1 i.e version 1, version 2 (10.4.9.2) etc, Tiger is longest running OS (April 04-Present) if i remember correctly and is the most advance and apparently required/requires a lot of tweaking.


Actually...Tiger started shipping on April 29th, 2005, not 2004.:cool:

bousozoku
May 31, 2006, 03:30 PM
I agree it would be nice to not have this debate every time there is a point upgrade to Mac OS X.

So just to say this once more. The version number isn't a decimal number. Who has heard of a decimal number with two periods? Those are three integers separated by periods.

It's like a discussion I was having with a Mac hater, Windows lover years ago. She was laughing at how stupid it was to have a version number like 7.5.3 because numbers aren't like that. She wasn't laughing when I told her than Win95's official version number was 4.0.0.95 or something like that.

It's whatever you want it to be--just make it count.

Romanesq
May 31, 2006, 03:30 PM
Hopefully they can address the dropping AE on the mac mini intel. It doesn't last one day without just going off the map.

I really hope they can get that one fixed. If you use the mini headless, it's a real pain to need to go back and fix the airport signal. :(

blueflame
May 31, 2006, 03:47 PM
anything that makes ichat better is ood in my book. on a side note, i hope it takes care of this macbook whining. it is better than it used to be but still definitly there and very annoying
andreas

thogs_cave
May 31, 2006, 03:58 PM
Mac OS Xiv2a
Mac OS XB3iii
Max OS XIb3
and so on. This would insure that sites like this would have importent things to talk about for years to come

For those that missed the joke. Do you remember how UNIX version were named? Not unlike the above.

How about: "Mac OS X Pro Turbo Gold Extreme Edition Plus"? :D

Yes, I remember UNIX versions. All too well.

j-a-x
May 31, 2006, 03:59 PM
I've noticed some javascipts or something that have been making safari incredibly slow and it'll beachball on some pages for a few minutes before letting me continue. I hope they fix this

Also it would be cool if they fixed the finder column view resize cursor bug. I know its not major but I'm really surprised they didn't catch that one in the last 4 updates!

iSpud
May 31, 2006, 04:20 PM
Maybe they fixed Safari so I can use rich text editing in gmail and other web 2.0 apps. I've been using Camino and I'd gladly switch to Safari if they fixed this!

doowrehs
May 31, 2006, 04:40 PM
iSpud - I second that request. I currently can't use writely.com or protopage in Safari for this very reason. Hopefully it gets sorted soon!

bloogersnigen
May 31, 2006, 04:56 PM
If Apple can fix the following, I would not be offended:

1. iPhoto. Whenever I open iPhoto, everything on my PB comes to a standstill. I know it uses a lot of RAM but c'mon, does every single app thats open have to beachball for 2 min until iPhoto is done loading my measly 1,700 photos? I'm sick. Sick and tired.
...

I have over 20,000 photos and it would bog down for 15 min. then I got an extra 2 gigs of ram (total 3 gigs) and now it takes 15 seconds

Ben

schatten
May 31, 2006, 05:04 PM
What's with all this Safari bashing?

Am I the only one that has no issues with Safari? I love it, as a matter o' fact! It's always fast, reliable, and compatible with every website I've ever visited.

On the other hand, although Firefox is just as fast to open webpages, it seems to take forever to launch!

Multimedia
May 31, 2006, 05:09 PM
Well I thought it would be July before we saw 10.4.7. But I'm sure there are some needed MacBook bugs to be quashed. Leaves 7 months 'til MacWorld SF. With only two updates left til Leopard, The January 9, 2007 SteveNote is looking more and more like a Leopard Release Event. :)

Mike Teezie
May 31, 2006, 05:10 PM
Does a little red light come on near the power button (but inside the case) when the fan are "going crazy"?

If so then the computer thinks that the air dam isn't in place. If it is in place then the one likely source of the issue is a faulty door sensor which is based on an optical sensor. Look for the silver / white covered tab on the plastic air dam (lower right tab IIRC). When the fans are going crazy try shining a flashlight down into the slot related to that tab to see if causes the fans to go back to normal (sense is toward the inside of box in the slot).

If the sensor appears to be at fault you may want to get your system serviced.

No, everything appears normal.

It's only started doing this since I updated to 10.4.6 last week.

What's with all this Safari bashing?

Am I the only one that has no issues with Safari? I love it, as a matter o' fact! It's always fast, reliable, and compatible with every website I've ever visited.

On the other hand, although Firefox is just as fast to open webpages, it seems to take forever to launch!

I love Safari. No issues for me here.

Multimedia
May 31, 2006, 05:28 PM
OSX is done really, there are few bugs and no major changes are needed fro PPC. Lepoard is really for Intel, I am sure of that and doubt I will get lepoad for any PPC machines.OS X is done? :eek: Yeah right. Bulletin: It's just gettin' started. Leopard will be way for BOTH PPC and Intel Macs. Why you would even begin to think like that is beyond my ability to comprehend.OS X is OS 10.* and is not "done"..There is no way Apple will abandon O/S support for the PPC for at least 2 more years.. Leopard is for both platforms..Trust me.I know ;)That's a big Duh! :p

FYI QuickTime 7.1.1 is out today.QuickTime 7.1.1 addresses an issue with 3rd party start-up items on Intel Macs. This release also fixes an issue exporting Keynote presentations to iDVD.

Platform
May 31, 2006, 05:30 PM
No OS X series has ever ended on the same number

10.0.4
10.1.5
10.2.8
10.3.9
10.4.7?

Either stop here or press on to 10.4.10. :)

Why should we stop here...10.5 has not even got a release date yet....Late this year or next year...so .8 and .9 are both comming (I hope) ;)

legacyb4
May 31, 2006, 05:50 PM
I certainly hope it's not in an Internet Explorer kind of way... if you default to using Firefox as your web browser, you can't double-click (or right-click open) a .jpg file on a WebDAV share because that's dependent on IE. Stuff like that where the implanted browser as the desktop really kills me because results are unexpected at the weirdest times.

I wonder if with Leopard, we will somehow see the boundaries blurring between operating system and web browser, in a kind of Web 2.0 way.

brepublican
May 31, 2006, 05:56 PM
I certainly hope it's not in an Internet Explorer kind of way... if you default to using Firefox as your web browser, you can't double-click (or right-click open) a .jpg file on a WebDAV share because that's dependent on IE. Stuff like that where the implanted browser as the desktop really kills me because results are unexpected at the weirdest times.
Totally. Using Safari as Finder would blow, I cant even imagine why anyone would think that :confused: its just so unMac

Core Trio
May 31, 2006, 06:06 PM
What's with all this Safari bashing?

Am I the only one that has no issues with Safari? I love it, as a matter o' fact! It's always fast, reliable, and compatible with every website I've ever visited.

I second that

milo
May 31, 2006, 06:14 PM
10.4.10 = 10.5

No. It means the tenth revision of 10.4, which is entirely different from 10.5.

Shadow
May 31, 2006, 06:17 PM
True FTP support in Safari!!!

FoxyKaye
May 31, 2006, 06:37 PM
No. It means the tenth revision of 10.4, which is entirely different from 10.5.
Please, everybody. Please, please, please read all of the discussion about this when 10.3.9 was released before going down this path again. Please, stop now. Back away from the 10.4 numbering discussion. These aren't the droids we're looking for. You can go about your business. Move along, move along.

Now, as for 10.4.7, it would tickle me pink if Apple introduced any other variety of color choices other than Aqua and Graphite, but hey, if wishes were horses we'd all be eating steak.

infectbda
May 31, 2006, 06:42 PM
Slightly off topic but why can't they get rid of the brushed metal look in apps such as Safari, Address Book, Calender etc like they did with iTunes and the whole iLife suit of apps and replace them with Aqua. I think its way better looking

You'll have to wait until 10.5 until brushed metal finally dies, at least for Apple apps. They have been moving away from it for awhile, but I'm guessing that 10.5 will finally kill metal in whatever apps are left.

pubwvj
May 31, 2006, 06:49 PM
I hope they fix what ever is crashing Mail and Safari. Some of the crashes, which I have reported, are reproducible. This has been going on since 10.4.4.

conditionals
May 31, 2006, 06:56 PM
Being a web designer I can tell ya neither FF or Opera display sites correctly. Neither does IE, but that's always been the case. FF and Opera just don't implement all the current standards. Neither does Safari, but it's a lot closer.

Plus the design of the tabs and interface is just light years ahead of anyone. They are all the same as far as speed goes as far as I can tell these days.

Something could be wrong with your system, but I think it's just all in your head. :)

Camino. "4 eva".

brepublican
May 31, 2006, 07:13 PM
Slightly off topic but why can't they get rid of the brushed metal look in apps such as Safari, Address Book, Calender etc like they did with iTunes and the whole iLife suit of apps and replace them with Aqua. I think its way better looking
*Gasp!* Get rid of brushed metal!??:eek:

BLASPHEMY!!1 :mad:

Trajectory
May 31, 2006, 07:24 PM
*Gasp!* Get rid of brushed metal!??:eek:

BLASPHEMY!!1 :mad:
Brushed Metal interfaces are SO last Millennium. :p

But I agree with others about Safari. It was once superior to FireFox, but, lately it gets so bogged down that I have to shut it down and restart it several times a day just to clear things out. As a result, I've found myself using FF more frequently for the past few months. But I still prefer Safari's interface and featureset.

Believe me, I wish I could say "Safari seems so SNAPPY!" after each update, but, it's been the opposite for me.

daneoni
May 31, 2006, 07:31 PM
Brushed Metal interfaces are SO last Millennium. :p

But I agree with others about Safari. It was once superior to FireFox, but, lately it gets so bogged down that I have to shut it down and restart it several times a day just to clear things out. As a result, I've found myself using FF more frequently for the past few months. But I still prefer Safari's interface and featureset.

Believe me, I wish I could say "Safari seems so SNAPPY!" after each update, but, it's been the opposite for me.

I second that, in fact i just quit safari because it froze on me while i was trying to browse to this forum. I have restarted it 4 times today due to loads of spinning beach balls and serious lag in rendering times. All these dont happen with Firefox or even IE. Safari definately needs a tweak.

Scenicroadways
May 31, 2006, 07:52 PM
I like the brushed metal look with iChat and Safari.

bigwig
May 31, 2006, 08:08 PM
I hope they fix Mail. It's IMAP implementation is flawed, it's "personalities" are useless (compare to Fastmail). It could be sooo good if they worked at it.

JW Pepper
May 31, 2006, 08:25 PM
OS X is OS 10.* and is not "done"..There is no way Apple will abandon O/S support for the PPC for at least 2 more years..
Leopard is for both platforms..Trust me.I know ;)

My point is that I don't think that there will be much in Leopard for PPC users. I am not sayingthat Leopard will not work on PPC which it will and so will it's replacement I am sure. I believe that the major benifits of moviong to Leopard will only really be apparent if you have Intel.

Speak for yourself. I'm sitting looking at my iPhoto (6 tho I thought the functionality appeared in 5) sidebar which has several folders with various books/slideshows/folders tucked inside each one.
Well how do you do that? I have tried dropping one albumn on another and it doesn't go. I cannot create an album inside an existing album either, it just make a new album at the bottom of the list.

OS X is done? :eek: Yeah right. Bulletin: It's just gettin' started. That is just plain DUMB to believe. Yeah JW, I'm calling YOU DUMB. Leopard will be way for BOTH PPC and Intel Macs. Why you would even begin to think like that is beyond my ability to comprehend.That's a big Duh! :p

FYI QuickTime 7.1.1 is out today.

There is no need to be rude. OSX works, I can't see any major speed improvements are going to appear for PPC, it is stable and I don't think fiddeling about with the finder appearence is a change. Yes they could add multiple desktops like Linux, but basically, I don't see any great enhancements coming.

Personally I think Apple really needs to pay attention to its applications. iWeb, iPhoto, Pages etc etc all need lots of resources thrown at them. Some applications are really solid, like iTunes and iMovie and iDVD, but the others are still work in progress.

darrens
May 31, 2006, 08:55 PM
10.4.10 = 10.5

I'm so sick of this - why do we have to have this discussion every year just before WWDC!!!

Dots in verison numbers are not decimal points, just like dots in IP addresses.

Its not like you don't already know when details of Leopard are coming (WWDC). Be patient!! ;)

Yes - but the rumours pre-WWDC have been pretty thin. I would like to hear something other than pure wish-lists. There seems to be a lot of people who are publishing wish lists, then other sites are picking up these wish-lists and publishing these as rumoured features of Leopard.

Seems that Apple has better leak-proofing on Leopard than they did on Tiger.

knackroller
May 31, 2006, 09:23 PM
I'm still happily using 10.4.4= or som=ethin=g lik=e that.....=====

mickhyperion
May 31, 2006, 09:24 PM
I have no Safari issues either. It's lightning fast for me, no slow downs, no crashes. Occasionally I have trouble with embedded video, but not often.

darrens
May 31, 2006, 09:29 PM
I hope they fix Mail. It's IMAP implementation is flawed, it's "personalities" are useless (compare to Fastmail). It could be sooo good if they worked at it.

From my perspective, it seems that Tiger Mail was not based on Panther Mail, but on Mail from 10.2.

Most of the IMAP issues were not present in Panther mail, and I was quite pleased with the improvement in Mail when I got my copy of Panther.

Then when I got my copy of Tiger, I noticed that it seemed to be a new interface on top of 10.2's dodgy mail. I never used the activity window in Panther mail, then suddenly I needed to use it frequently in Tiger mail, just like I did before I upgraded to Panther.

Let's hope Leopard's Mail is based on Panther mail and there are two teams leapfrogging each other...

pincho
May 31, 2006, 09:48 PM
FIX THE MACBOOK PRO WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


that is all

btfgus
Jun 1, 2006, 12:08 AM
I must say that i eagerly await these tweaks.

Oh and i do love the whole brushed metal thing, but mail does look funky being a bit more on the grey side.

jbomber
Jun 1, 2006, 01:02 AM
Any chance this proposed update will fix any of the bloody problems caused by security update 2006-003? I STILL cant get After Effects to run on my MacBook Pro.:mad:

JFreak
Jun 1, 2006, 01:40 AM
10.4.10 = 10.5

No, it's not. For the millionth time, the OSX version number is not a decimal number -- it has two dots for christ's sake. It's a combination of X, Y and Z integer numbers which _EACH_ can in a 32bit world be anything between 1 and 4294967296. Given that X number stays ten like forever and Y number changes with every cat name Steve can imagine, the Z number is used for OSX minor revisions.

So in my opinion Apple should release 10.4.10 just to end this number madness. Let it be 10.4.28 if it needs to be; even better, drop the ten and just call it version 4.28 (major-dot-minor) to make it even clearer, because the "OSX" has the ten in itself.

I hate this "four-dot-ten-equals-five" talk. Hate it. Really. Sorry about the rant.

BWhaler
Jun 1, 2006, 02:01 AM
Agreed, and to revive a tired old argument ... 10.4.10?

Please, please, please don't do that.

It is up there in the top 3 most idiotic discussion points of all time. And it seems like every time Apple gets above 10.x.5, people debate it.

morespce54
Jun 1, 2006, 09:22 AM
there is no separate bookmark that automatically contains all of your rss subscriptions. other than that, i think safari is the best (at least for Mac)

Are you on Tiger ? Because here, I have such a folder...

MacBoobsPro
Jun 1, 2006, 09:33 AM
FIX THE MACBOOK PRO WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


that is all

But who will fix the MacBook Pro Whine whiners? :D

darrens
Jun 1, 2006, 09:53 AM
Well how do you do that? I have tried dropping one albumn on another and it doesn't go. I cannot create an album inside an existing album either, it just make a new album at the bottom of the list.

You can't put an album in an album - you create a folder and put a set of albums in it.

It's there under the file menu - new folder.

You can even put a folder in a folder...

daneoni
Jun 1, 2006, 10:29 AM
But who will fix the MacBook Pro Whine whiners? :D

Chain reaction. You fix one problem and you essentially fix all other problems arising from that problem. So the problem's problem is fixed from fixing the problem....if that makes sense

Craigy
Jun 1, 2006, 11:55 AM
I'm sure Safari will feel snappier:D

new2mac03
Jun 1, 2006, 01:29 PM
I've had more issues with Tiger than any other version of OS X, except perhaps for the public beta. It's almost as if someone at Apple is intent on cramming more and more into the OS and testing it less and less.

Thank you ... I joined the community of "switchers" in 2003 and have been generally pleased; but Tiger has been a continuing pain for me. I like the new features, but (for example) I want mail to work reliably and it hasn't since I upgraded to Tiger.

When asked by friends about whether they too should "switch", I've stopped telling them yes.

daneoni
Jun 1, 2006, 01:49 PM
Thank you ... I joined the community of "switchers" in 2003 and have been generally pleased; but Tiger has been a continuing pain for me. I like the new features, but (for example) I want mail to work reliably and it hasn't since I upgraded to Tiger.

When asked by friends about whether they too should "switch", I've stopped telling them yes.

Same thing has been happening to me recently except it was my sister and she was in the market for a new laptop and was "interested" in the MacBook Pro but i couldn't in good conscience recommend it to her because i was having a lot issues with mine (as where others) while i still had it So i told her to go for HP instead which everyone in my family (except moi of course) uses.

Tiger while faster for me as an upgrade is still meh.....

Its a solid operating system and i like it but i don't think its all that better than Panther. Weird thing is i have this feeling i might be skipping leopard/vista altogether.....well for a while i.e maybe when they get to 10.5.7 and Vista SP3.

billyboy
Jun 1, 2006, 04:12 PM
iPhoto is a mess, we have had several updates and yet we still cannot make sub albums/folders consequently my Album list just gets longer and more un-manageable.

iPhoto 5 can do what you want. It is in File>New Folder, one of Apple's least intuitive features, but it is there

pincho
Jun 2, 2006, 04:40 AM
But who will fix the MacBook Pro Whine whiners? :D
ill keep whining until this whine is gone :D

MacBoobsPro
Jun 2, 2006, 04:53 AM
ill keep whining until this whine is gone :D

My MacBook has arrived today, so hopefully mine will be fine. Im itching to finish work to get home. Only 6 hours to go :rolleyes:

61132
Jun 2, 2006, 08:49 AM
I hope it comes out soon, maybe this weekend?

Multimedia
Jun 2, 2006, 10:24 AM
My MacBook has arrived today, so hopefully mine will be fine. Im itching to finish work to get home. Only 6 hours to go :rolleyes:Congrats! Let us know how it goes over at the MacBook Released thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2476077&posted=1#post2476077) - now over 2600 posts. :)

dacloo
Jun 2, 2006, 04:13 PM
AMEN! I say AMEN!


?? I think the 10.4.x mail is awesome. Hopefully Safari and other apps will follow suit. The got rid of the ridiculous "drawer" concept which was so un-Apple from day 1. All it did was not take advantage of useable space at the top and bottom. The new blue area that replaced it is much better use of space and more attractive. The icons are streamlined, and it took on the new interface lighter grey (non-brushed) look. Very nice. And it works better than 10.3 mail too of course.

crjackson
Jun 2, 2006, 04:17 PM
maybe they'll start learning from MS and get a previewer that can browse through directories, without selecting all the files first and then opening them. Safari could use a few new features similar to firefox. Can't wait to see whats next!

MacBoobsPro
Jun 2, 2006, 04:46 PM
Congrats! Let us know how it goes over at the MacBook Released thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=2476077&posted=1#post2476077) - now over 2600 posts. :)

I posted in the thread if anyone is interested in how MY macbook is :D :D :D :D

matticus008
Jun 2, 2006, 05:01 PM
My point is that I don't think that there will be much in Leopard for PPC users. I am not sayingthat Leopard will not work on PPC which it will and so will it's replacement I am sure. I believe that the major benifits of moviong to Leopard will only really be apparent if you have Intel.
Any sort of functionality in Leopard would be cross-platform compatible. If it works with Intel, it'll work with PPC. Otherwise, there'd be no point in releasing it as a universal OS, as software products would have to specify "Leopard for Intel" as a requirement. (Specific hardware utilities excepted, of course.)

For the record, I can't imagine PPC being dropped until 10.7 unless there is some radical new CPU technology announced within the first few months of Leopard's release that is fundamentally incompatible with PowerPC (we're talking something like what the FPU did to computers when it was introduced). Any announcement of that type after the first few months will probably be too late to require of 10.6, leaving no technical reason why PowerPC can't continue to be supported at least until 10.7.

bloogersnigen
Jun 2, 2006, 07:05 PM
Well how do you do that? I have tried dropping one albumn on another and it doesn't go. I cannot create an album inside an existing album either, it just make a new album at the bottom of the list.


You go File>new folder

Stridder44
Jun 2, 2006, 07:53 PM
Dear God... please FIX SAFARI. It is SLOW and does multi-media VERY POORLY.

As a switcher, I must admit I love my MAC, but the app I use the most is Safari and it does not run 1/2 as good as IE on my $299 Dell - hate to say it - but TRUE!

APPLE YOUR BROWSER IS POKEY - FIX IT!


Welcome to day one with Safari. It's an awesome app but its such a memory hog, and like you said has multimedia plugin problems up the wazoo. Firefox isnt that great on the Mac and Camino never seems to be developed anymore. Im trying Opera soon tho...

paolobed7
Jun 2, 2006, 08:27 PM
can anyone explain why just two days ago yahoo all of a sudden doesnt allow mac book pro users to access and broadcast webcams??

pao

artifex
Jun 5, 2006, 02:07 PM
FIX THE MACBOOK PRO WHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


that is all


Here, put this tape over your mouth. Now cut your network cable. :) Silences it for me.

Paranoidmarvin
Jun 14, 2006, 10:40 AM
?? I think the 10.4.x mail is awesome. Hopefully Safari and other apps will follow suit. The got rid of the ridiculous "drawer" concept which was so un-Apple from day 1. All it did was not take advantage of useable space at the top and bottom. The new blue area that replaced it is much better use of space and more attractive. The icons are streamlined, and it took on the new interface lighter grey (non-brushed) look. Very nice. And it works better than 10.3 mail too of course.
When I first got my Powerbook, it had Panther on it for about a month, then Tiger went on. The Panther mail client was lovely - and I went straight to thunderbird once I got Tiger.
More intergrated syncing for my Symbian 60 device would be good, perhaps RSS feeds or my email inbox?

JackSYi
Jun 23, 2006, 04:09 AM
Where is this upgrade? I am having a lot of problems with the sound in my new MacBook (kernel panics & volume control).

netdog
Jun 23, 2006, 04:13 AM
Where is this upgrade? I am having a lot of problems with the sound in my new MacBook (kernel panics & volume control).

They distributed another build on Tuesday or Wednesday, so I wouldn't expect to see it until at least next Tuesday assuming that the lastest distribution proves to be the final one.

liketom
Jun 23, 2006, 04:19 AM
Here, put this tape over your mouth. Now cut your network cable. :) Silences it for me.
Thats funny:D

i would think ear plugs might solve it or turn that iTunes up;)

JackSYi
Jun 23, 2006, 05:12 AM
They distributed another build on Tuesday or Wednesday, so I wouldn't expect to see it until at least next Tuesday assuming that the lastest distribution proves to be the final one.

Damn. These kernel panics are getting very annoying. But thanks for the input.

seashellz
Jun 23, 2006, 11:03 AM
So where IS 10.4.7 already?
Its release was "imminent" over a week ago-no known issues, documentation written etc.

Peace
Jun 23, 2006, 11:12 AM
So where IS 10.4.7 already?
Its release was "imminent" over a week ago-no known issues, documentation written etc.


Like I've said before..Someone at Apple told you 10.4.7 was "imminent" over a week ago?

It's on it's way kidz..Relax..

MDA
Jun 23, 2006, 04:09 PM
Like I've said before..Someone at Apple told you 10.4.7 was "imminent" over a week ago?

It's on it's way kidz..Relax..

I think this is one of the longest delays of an update I've ever seen. They must really be running into issues with it.

MDA

tibbon
Jun 23, 2006, 05:32 PM
I know that the company Apogee (which makes high end audio recording interfaces and such), has a pairing with Apple at the moment for their upcoming product called the Ensemble, which is a Mac only high quality audio interface. The retail on it is around 2,000.

Anywho, I do know that the Ensemble is also delayed due to Apple's core audio driver issues, which they are supposed to be working on with 10.4.7. Apogee has basically hinted that 10.4.7 is the key to their device working, but it seems that there are some major holdups or issues. This "software issue" has been going on since Feb 06' so it's well beyond 10.4.7.

I'm thinking that there is some massive core audio issue that Apple has promised Apogee that they will resolve in 10.4.7 and it simply isn't getting done right. I am guessing that they seeded 10.4.7 to developers and gave it to Apogee accordingly and Apogee was like "WTF?, it still isn't working!"

So maybe Apple has had to go back to the drawing board with the Core Audio issues. It's not just a "driver issue" but I think something fundamental about Core Audio not working right (a few things haven't ever been quite right with it!)

The purpose of the Ensemble is to have a high quality interface meant to work with primaraly Logic Pro, and set Apple/Apogee up to compete with Digidesign's Protools (FCP is already competing with the parent company Avid that makes video editing software). Apple is basically trying to set themselves up to tackle a giant in the audio/video industry.

It might not sound like a big deal for most of you, but for Apple and a lot of Audio people it is a big deal.

Apogee was commenting on release dates and such, and their hardware is finished. They have stopped commenting now however, and basically are just saying that the ball is in Apple's court. My pure guess would be that lawyers have been called (at least for quick advice) and that there is a chance that this partenership might fade away really quickly, or at least be strained, because Apple hasn't had their **** together.

Lots of guesses. We'll have to wait and see.

Peace
Jun 23, 2006, 05:36 PM
I know that the company Apogee (which makes high end audio recording interfaces and such), has a pairing with Apple at the moment for their upcoming product called the Ensemble, which is a Mac only high quality audio interface. The retail on it is around 2,000.

Anywho, I do know that the Ensemble is also delayed due to Apple's core audio driver issues, which they are supposed to be working on with 10.4.7. Apogee has basically hinted that 10.4.7 is the key to their device working, but it seems that there are some major holdups or issues. This "software issue" has been going on since Feb 06' so it's well beyond 10.4.7.

I'm thinking that there is some massive core audio issue that Apple has promised Apogee that they will resolve in 10.4.7 and it simply isn't getting done right. I am guessing that they seeded 10.4.7 to developers and gave it to Apogee accordingly and Apogee was like "WTF?, it still isn't working!"

So maybe Apple has had to go back to the drawing board with the Core Audio issues. It's not just a "driver issue" but I think something fundamental about Core Audio not working right (a few things haven't ever been quite right with it!)

The purpose of the Ensemble is to have a high quality interface meant to work with primaraly Logic Pro, and set Apple/Apogee up to compete with Digidesign's Protools (FCP is already competing with the parent company Avid that makes video editing software). Apple is basically trying to set themselves up to tackle a giant in the audio/video industry.

It might not sound like a big deal for most of you, but for Apple and a lot of Audio people it is a big deal.

Apogee was commenting on release dates and such, and their hardware is finished. They have stopped commenting now however, and basically are just saying that the ball is in Apple's court. My pure guess would be that lawyers have been called (at least for quick advice) and that there is a chance that this partenership might fade away really quickly, or at least be strained, because Apple hasn't had their **** together.

Lots of guesses. We'll have to wait and see.

dude you are way off wrong..

The CoreAudio is fixed.

tibbon
Jun 23, 2006, 09:30 PM
No, the core audio isn't fixed.

There is a huge thread over at GearSlutz (a recording website), where a representative from Apogee named Max, who is working closely with Apple has been speaking with everyone for the past few months. (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=58576)

Also, Apple Insider has pointed out here (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1821) that 10.4.7 contains core audio fixes. Maybe it works for you in iTunes using the built in audio interface, but there is a LOT more to core audio that audio professionals need for it to work correctly for everything.

There is also a video from MusicMeise (http://http//www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=2924#) that the Apogee representative says that the hardware is ready, but yet they are waiting for the software to be fixed. Seeing that the Apogee doesn't have any drivers on it's own and is totally supported by Core Audio, and that they have said the ball is in Apple's court, somewhat points to the fact that Core Audio is NOT ok, and that Apple should be addressing this soon in an update.

Pro Application Support 2006-1 did not take care of the issue. It's not application support, it's got to be core audio!

I've got nearly two grand tied up in trying to get this interface. If core audio was fine i'd have the interface here right now. Apple hasn't had their **** together fully on their end, or this would be working right now.

If you have any other speculations, or insider information about Apple's involvement with Apogee please educate me. I could be dead wrong and there is no ensemble and there is no core audio issue.

Peace
Jun 23, 2006, 10:13 PM
Apple Computer has many things in the pipeline besides making sure Ensemble gets shipped and won't release an update until they feel it's time.
Like I said before.There is no core-audio problem with 10.4.7 that I know of.And I do know about 10.4.7

So relax man!! It'll be here..

tibbon
Jun 23, 2006, 10:41 PM
Apple Computer has many things in the pipeline besides making sure Ensemble gets shipped and won't release an update until they feel it's time.
Like I said before.There is no core-audio problem with 10.4.7 that I know of.And I do know about 10.4.7

So relax man!! It'll be here..

I'm guessing they probably (if Apogee was smart) have some contractual obligations to get the stuff working after a 6 month delay. If 10.4.7 doesn't make the Ensemble work, I have a feeling that there's going to be hell to pay from Apogee.

joecool85
Jun 24, 2006, 12:28 PM
leaving no technical reason why PowerPC can't continue to be supported at least until 10.7.

Which should be at least 3 years or so. And if it is supported during 10.7 then it would be more like 4 years or a little more. I'd love to see 10.7.9 running on my powermac :-) Personally I think its hard to tell how long they will support PPC, they really have to for at least a couple years, after that its a gamble. It could be as long as 5+ years as long as the PPC processors are fast enough and there aren't any major architectural changes. IE a 400mhz G4 won't be running 10.9, but a 2.7 ghz G5 might.

netdog
Jun 26, 2006, 03:15 AM
10.4.7 will arrive by midweek, and probably sooner. I'd bet the ranch on it.

maverick808
Jun 26, 2006, 07:51 PM
aaaah, where is it? The original article said soon and that was a month ago. Aaaaaah.

Evangelion
Jun 27, 2006, 04:33 AM
?? I think the 10.4.x mail is awesome.

Problem with Mail is that it does not follow Apple's design-guidelines (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/3).

related to this: I REALLY recommend Ars Technica's OS X-reviews. John Siracusa knows what he's talking about

tbrinkma
Jun 27, 2006, 01:50 PM
You are interpeting the "dot" as a decimal point. It is not the case because there are TWO dots in the version number. In this case we Americans should read the dot as a if it were a comma. Those in Europe, I asume would prefer to see the "dot" as they use a comma as a decimal place. We could use dashes but then someone, I'm sure would complian that 10-4-7 is a negative number

Just a nitpick, but technically 10-4-7 isn't a negative number, because you go right to left on math operations, so 10-4-7 = 10-(-3) = 13.

macgeek2005
Jun 27, 2006, 01:52 PM
Just a nitpick, but technically 10-4-7 isn't a negative number, because you go right to left on math operations, so 10-4-7 = 10-(-3) = 13.

Where are you getting 10-(-3) from? 10.4.7 doesn't have anything in it like that. There are no three's, theres nothing that ads up to 13, and why the minuses.

:confused:

aranhamo
Jun 27, 2006, 01:59 PM
Problem with Mail is that it does not follow Apple's design-guidelines (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/3).

If that's the only problem with Mail, then I'd say it's pretty good. Apple's human interface guidelines are not the Bible. Heck, to most people, even the Bible is not the Bible.

I've never confused the "Delete" button in Mail with the "Get Mail" button, and I think the Tiger look is a lot nicer than the Panther look.

MacRumoron
Jun 27, 2006, 02:01 PM
Where are you getting 10-(-3) from? 10.4.7 doesn't have anything in it like that. There are no three's, theres nothing that ads up to 13, and why the minuses.

:confused:

he is doing 10-4-7 which equals 10-(-3) because 4-7 = -3

but ya, i don't know why he is minusing those numbers

tbrinkma
Jun 27, 2006, 02:03 PM
Where are you getting 10-(-3) from? 10.4.7 doesn't have anything in it like that. There are no three's, theres nothing that ads up to 13, and why the minuses.

:confused:

ChrisA made the comment that if you replaced the dots in 10.4.7 with dashes to stop people from confusing it with a decimal number (despite having two decimal points), then people would get equally confused because 10-4-7 is a negative number. I just pointed out that 10-4-7=13, not the -1 that he was assuming, because mathmatical orders of operations go from right to left among equal priority operations. That means that mathmatically 10-4-7 is the same as 10-(4-7), which is the same as 10-(-3), which is the same as 10+3, which is 13.

Edit: I've bolded the important bit of ChrisA's post that I quoted in my original post to this thread in an attempt to minimize continued confusion. Either that, or I've been successfully trolled, in which case, nicely done, I didn't even see it coming. :D

mkrishnan
Jun 27, 2006, 02:03 PM
but ya, i don't know why he is minusing those numbers

Because he doesn't understand order of operations. :eek: ;)

Bradley W
Jun 27, 2006, 02:33 PM
_

Some_Big_Spoon
Jun 27, 2006, 02:37 PM
That ain't the only problem with Mail, but it's one of them. I find it slow, and not customizable enough. I've also has issues of it, or .Mac, losing mails that were clearly there, or sent. This is a topic for another thread, but yes, the GUI/design guidelines are wonky.

Problem with Mail is that it does not follow Apple's design-guidelines (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/3).

related to this: I REALLY recommend Ars Technica's OS X-reviews. John Siracusa knows what he's talking about

Some_Big_Spoon
Jun 27, 2006, 02:39 PM
Got inside info? :-D

I'm looking forward to the update to fix some of the weirdness with the new MacBook. I have sound issues, Airport's in need of help, and preferences and settings don't stick to my system in some places (but do in others).

Also looking for heat and battery fixes, but I think I'll have to wait for later revisions.


Gosh, I want the 10.4.7 update. I better be out in an 2 or 3 hours!

Last Wednesday was the last seed so if no one has any major objections today is the day.

Bradley W
Jun 27, 2006, 02:40 PM
_

michaelmac
Jun 27, 2006, 03:18 PM
Hey, just got 10.4.7 via Software Update!

In the UK and running a G5 iMac - about to install now! Can feel it getting nippier already :-)

Regards

Michael

michaelmac
Jun 27, 2006, 03:19 PM
Details of 10.4.7

The 10.4.7 Update is recommended for all users and includes general operating system fixes, as well as specific fixes for the following applications and technologies. It includes fixes for:

- preventing AFP deadlocks and dropped connections
- saving Adobe and Quark documents to AFP mounted volumes
- Bluetooth file transfers, pairing and connecting to a Bluetooth mouse, and syncing to mobile phones
- audio playback in QuickTime, iTunes, Final Cut Pro, and Soundtrack applications
- ensuring icons are spaced correctly when viewed on desktop
- determining the space required to burn folders
- iChat audio and video connectivity, creating chat rooms when using AIM
- importing files into Keynote 3
- PDF workflows when using iCal and iPhoto
- reliable use of Automator actions within workflows
- importing and removing fonts in Font Book
- syncing addresses, bookmarks, calendar events and files to .Mac
- compatibility with third party applications and devices
- previous standalone security updates

For detailed information on this Update, please visit this website: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n303771.

For detailed information on Security Updates, please visit this website: http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n61798.

michaelmac
Jun 27, 2006, 03:20 PM
39.8Mb for me and it is coming in very fast..

joecool85
Jun 27, 2006, 03:50 PM
I'm installing it on my PowerBook right now. We'll see how it goes and if I like it and there aren't any big issues I'll throw it on the PowerMac.

aranhamo
Jun 27, 2006, 05:03 PM
The other problem with Mail is that you have to bring up that dumb "Activity Window" to see what is going on after you hit the get mail button.

That's the only gripe I have with Mail.

Atlasland
Jun 27, 2006, 07:16 PM
Has anyone heard anything about Apple adding support for a2dp bluetooth? From my understanding the hardware used currently should be able to support the profile and it would make bluetooth headphones 3 million times better on a mac.

I too would love to know the answer to this question.

Come on apple, get your act together! Where's A2DP?

Evangelion
Jun 28, 2006, 12:03 PM
If that's the only problem with Mail, then I'd say it's pretty good. Apple's human interface guidelines are not the Bible. Heck, to most people, even the Bible is not the Bible.

I've never confused the "Delete" button in Mail with the "Get Mail" button, and I think the Tiger look is a lot nicer than the Panther look.

Apple is known for great UI and easse of use. And now they aren't even following their own guidelines?! And they don't even have a good reason to NOT to do so. It seems to me that they decided to change Mail for the sake of changing it, and they changed it for the worse. And it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to see how the change is bad when compared to what was there previously.

Knowing all that, I would be worried. Are they losing their touch?

sphereboy
Jun 28, 2006, 12:21 PM
Apple is known for great UI and easse of use. And now they aren't even following their own guidelines?! And they don't even have a good reason to NOT to do so. It seems to me that they decided to change Mail for the sake of changing it, and they changed it for the worse. And it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to see how the change is bad when compared to what was there previously.

Knowing all that, I would be worried. Are they losing their touch?

I love the new Mail in comparison to what was there before. I love Smart Folders. I love the new clean look. If the icons are out of place for some, then change them around. There isn't an easier OS to modify than OSX. I've never had a problem with Mail. Maybe the Activity Window, but that is a minor thing.

Evangelion
Jun 29, 2006, 02:17 AM
I love the new Mail in comparison to what was there before. I love Smart Folders. I love the new clean look.

But that doesn't change the fact that it's still against the UI-guidelines. The guidelines are GOOD, the new icons are not.

There isn't an easier OS to modify than OSX.

I beg to differ. Any OS that requires a third-party app (http://www.panic.com/candybar/) (that costs money!) in order to do something as simple as changing the appearance of the icons is NOT "easy to modify"!

You obviously haven't used Linux or *BSD, since you seem to think that OS X is "easy to modify" ;).

gekko513
Jun 29, 2006, 02:19 AM
You obviously haven't used Linux or *BSD, since you seem to think that OS X is "easy to modify" ;).
Some would say that *BSD and Linux are a pain to modify, let alone use unmodified. :p

Evangelion
Jun 29, 2006, 02:28 AM
Some would say that *BSD and Linux are a pain to modify

They are not. you can modify the GUI's with few mouse-clicks. You could serioysly make the GUI look totally different with minimium effort. And there's no need to pay someone in order to change the icons ;).

let alone use unmodified.

Depends on the person. Some people think that Macs are a "pain to use".

bousozoku
Jun 29, 2006, 02:39 AM
Some would say that *BSD and Linux are a pain to modify, let alone use unmodified. :p

I'd say that's partly true, especially, if you don't have a good package to install.

During my 2nd encounter with Linux, I needed to change the resolution so I could see the whole GUI desktop at once. There was no point and click way to do it. Of course, the help I got everywhere I looked was "RTFM" because the enlightened were too busy trying to figure out how to modify something else.

I ended up resolving the situation by deleting the partition and forgetting Linux.

If someone finds Mac OS X difficult to modify, I'd say that it is in some places and rightfully so. There are some things that shouldn't be changed. If Apple needs to add some customisation, it's in firewall configuration, it's not in GUI changes. Basic operation is sometimes still rough after all these years.

Evangelion
Jun 29, 2006, 03:25 AM
During my 2nd encounter with Linux, I needed to change the resolution so I could see the whole GUI desktop at once. There was no point and click way to do it.

Well, FWIW, there is a GUI today. Has been for quite some time already.

Of course, the help I got everywhere I looked was "RTFM" because the enlightened were too busy trying to figure out how to modify something else.

They say "RTFM" because the procedure IS documented in the manual, and they get tired after they answer the same questions 20 times.

That said, I see no reason for hostility between Mac-users and Linux-users. Both can co-exists beautifully with each other. A lot better than either of those could co-exists with Windows.