The Alien Invasion Has Started

[Mr. Anderson]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/science/06/02/red.rain/index.html

scary to think that they might actually be alien, can reproduce and don't have DNA......

D

[yellow]

That's totally horrifying.

"Survives" heated to 600F?

Why do I have images of The Andromeda Strain, and some other short story* I read a million years ago that I can't remember the name of crashing in my brain?

* Seriously it was probably 25+ years ago that I read it. The story (as I barely remember it) was about a chemical found or returned from a space mission that caused water to change properties in a way that was very dangerous to humans (I think it killed all the astronauts?), maybe made it unabsorable by our bodies, and it was accidently washed into a drain. A short time later a company was selling "ice cubes that sank" in drinks (a sign that the chemical was in the water supply). Something like that. Does this ring a bell with anyone?

[WildCowboy]

They're here!!

49400

[sushi]

They're here!!

Really! :eek:

BTW, I like your alien dancer.

[joepunk]

Very Cool to think that this might be our first encounter with aliens.

I sort of hope that this pans out to be true just so I can say that I was alive when we first made contact.

[runplaysleeprun]

Its like a bad sci-fi movie, the first confirmed aliens arrived in "blood rain".

" So far, one preliminary DNA test has come back positive." Does that mean that DNA was found? Why are people talking about no DNA?

[EGT]

Very, very interesting! :eek:

DNA or not, I'd still like to know how these things rained from the sky.

[WildCowboy]

" So far, one preliminary DNA test has come back positive." Does that mean that DNA was found? Why are people talking about no DNA?

I think it's just poorly worded and explained. It looks like the test is to confirm the absence of DNA. So I assume a positive test means an absence of DNA.

[yellow]

DNA or not, I'd still like to know how these things rained from the sky.

Flushed from an flying saucer's head*.




*nautical bathroom

[iTwitch]

That's totally horrifying.

"Survives" heated to 600F?

Why do I have images of The Andromeda Strain, and some other short story* I read a million years ago that I can't remember the name of crashing in my brain?

* Seriously it was probably 25+ years ago that I read it. The story (as I barely remember it) was about a chemical found or returned from a space mission that caused water to change properties in a way that was very dangerous to humans (I think it killed all the astronauts?), maybe made it unabsorable by our bodies, and it was accidently washed into a drain. A short time later a company was selling "ice cubes that sank" in drinks (a sign that the chemical was in the water supply). Something like that. Does this ring a bell with anyone?


Didn't read the book but saw the movie. Think red lights and squeeze, thats AS.

[Diatribe]

At least the uproar will be a lot milder this way... imagine everyone going nuts when aliens would land in spacecrafts and walk amongst us. I guess I prefer the first one, although the shock of the second one could certainly be beneficial to solving our social and ethnical problems.

But it's probably nothing at all.

[yellow]

Didn't read the book but saw the movie. Think red lights and squeeze, thats AS.

Ah no.. what I as describing wasn't AS, it was some short story I had.

[iTwitch]

Could have been a failed experiment by some airline. You know passengers tossing their GM diner. :eek:

[iTwitch]

Ah no.. what I as describing wasn't AS, it was some short story I had.

Oh, now I see the 'and' in your original post. :o If you remember the name let us know as it sounds good.

[AmbitiousLemon]

I hate to disappoint, but I have read the article and its crap. This is a physcist trying to be a biologist and failing. I can't believe this got published. The article is mostly just him speculating and involved no valid scientific analysis.

Send me some cells and I'll have an ID for you in a week or two.

[sushi]

That's totally horrifying.

"Survives" heated to 600F?
That is pretty scary when you think about it. That is one tough alien.

[iTwitch]

I hate to disappoint, but I have read the article and its crap. This is a physcist trying to be a biologist and failing. I can't believe this got published. The article is mostly just him speculating and involved no valid scientific analysis.

Send me some cells and I'll have an ID for you in a week or two.

Raining on his parade? Better send off a sample for analysis. :D

[jsw]

* Seriously it was probably 25+ years ago that I read it. The story (as I barely remember it) was about a chemical found or returned from a space mission that caused water to change properties in a way that was very dangerous to humans (I think it killed all the astronauts?), maybe made it unabsorable by our bodies, and it was accidently washed into a drain. A short time later a company was selling "ice cubes that sank" in drinks (a sign that the chemical was in the water supply). Something like that. Does this ring a bell with anyone?
"Ice-Nine" by Kurt Vonnegut?

[Diatribe]

I hate to disappoint, but I have read the article and its crap. This is a physcist trying to be a biologist and failing. I can't believe this got published. The article is mostly just him speculating and involved no valid scientific analysis.

Send me some cells and I'll have an ID for you in a week or two.

Didn't he specifically say he didn't know yet? And what is not scientific about testing for DNA? Not quite sure I get your point.

[Diatribe]

That is pretty scary when you think about it. That is one tough alien.

Now the scary part is that it not only survives that temperature but reproduces at that temperature.

[yellow]

"Ice-Nine" by Kurt Vonnegut?

Hmm doesn't really look like it. At least not how I remember it. Which granted.. could be all freaking wrong. :)

[WildCowboy]

"Ice-Nine" by Kurt Vonnegut?

That was my immediate thought as well, but doesn't seem to be what yellow meant. (Unless, as he says, he got it all wrong. :D )

[AmbitiousLemon]

Now the scary part is that it not only survives that temperature but reproduces at that temperature.

Actually the article doesn't mention anything about surviving at high temperatures or reproducing.

The test for DNA wasn't done properly.

They didn't have a single biologist look at this. These are two physicists with no training in biology. You would get no better analysis by giving it to a person you ran into on the street. From the comments they make in the article it sounds like they have a very poor understanding of basic biology.

[sushi]

Now the scary part is that it not only survives that temperature but reproduces at that temperature.
Is that considered hot sex? ;)

On a serious note, completely agree. This definitely limits ways to destroy it, if the need arises.

[yellow]

Actually the article doesn't mention anything about surviving at high temperatures or reproducing.

FWIW:

Stranger still, dozens of his experiments suggest that the particles may lack DNA yet still reproduce plentifully, even in water superheated to nearly 600 degrees Fahrenheit .

I take that to mean that (assuming it's real), it divides and recreates itself in very, very, very, hot temps. Meaning it's still "alive", where many (most?) other forms of life, as we know it, would be dead.

On a serious note, completely agree. This definitely limits ways to destroy it, if the need arises.

See? That's the first thing I thought.. have I watched too many sci-fi movies?
Am I to into reading Judas Unchained (followup to Pandora's Star) [good reads if you like sci-fi]??

First thought.. how do I kill it?

[AmbitiousLemon]

FWIW:
I take that to mean that (assuming it's real), it divides and recreates itself in very, very, very, hot temps. Meaning it's still "alive", where many (most?) other forms of life, as we know it, would be dead.

I was talking about the actual journal article not CNN's article.

The journal article contains absolutely no discussion or experiments on surviving at high temperatures or reproducing at any temperature.

The only discussion of survival is The particles are very stable against decay with time. Even after storage in the original rainwater at room
temperature without any preservative for about 4 years, no decay or discolouration of the particles could be found.

He includes no valid biological investigation in the article and consult no biologists in the limited analysis that he did perform.

I'm just saying that this is highly suspect - and should not represent anything more than a lay person's opinion on the particles.

[Diatribe]

Is that considered hot sex? ;)

On a serious note, completely agree. This definitely limits ways to destroy it, if the need arises.

I guess it is. :D

Especially if it is true that it doesn't have any DNA, how would you attack it at all?

[yellow]

I was talking about the actual journal article not CNN's article.

Ah.. I see.

Especially if it is true that it doesn't have any DNA, how would you attack it at all?

Very small hammer?

[AmbitiousLemon]

Didn't he specifically say he didn't know yet? And what is not scientific about testing for DNA? Not quite sure I get your point.

They used a really rudimentary ethidium bromide staining on lysed cells to look for DNA. They didn't attempt DAPI staining. They didn't attempt a DNA extraction. They didn't analyze the proteins. They didn't compare to mammalian red blood cells. They didn't let any biologists look at the samples.

They just speculate, and run some elementary tests.

[jsw]

All I know is that they won't survive on a system running OS X - esp. since the MBP's exceed 600ºC. ;)

[Bern]

I think a Vietnamese "scientist" made a similar claim about an orange molecule in the water back in the 70's :rolleyes: Turned out it wasn't an invasion from outer space after all.

[Diatribe]

They used a really rudimentary ethidium bromide staining on lysed cells to look for DNA. They didn't attempt DAPI staining. They didn't attempt a DNA extraction. They didn't analyze the proteins. They didn't compare to mammalian red blood cells. They didn't let any biologists look at the samples.

They just speculate, and run some elementary tests.

I guess we will see in a few weeks when other people look at it.

[mkrishnan]

I guess we will see in a few weeks when other people look at it.

Yeah, I read an article about this a while back...I'm really curious to see the independent verification too. This is really interesting.

[AmbitiousLemon]

I guess we will see in a few weeks when other people look at it.

its from 2001. its doubtful they will let anyone else look at it if they haven't so far.

[mkrishnan]

its from 2001. its doubtful they will let anyone else look at it if they haven't so far.

I guess we posted at the same time... but from the article:

Last winter, Louis sent some of his samples to astronomer Chandra Wickramasinghe and his colleagues at Cardiff University in Wales, who are now attempting to replicate his experiments; Wickramasinghe expects to publish his initial findings later this year.

[AmbitiousLemon]

I guess we posted at the same time... but from the article:

o great so we will have an astronomer look at it. that will be a big help :rolleyes:

[xsedrinam]

o great so we will have an astronomer look at it. that will be a big help :rolleyes:
That'll be a hard cell.

[FoxyKaye]

I sort of hope that this pans out to be true just so I can say that I was alive when we first made contact.
But wouldn't First Contact implay two-way communications? Unless these things are like Ken MacLeod's "gods" (Engines of Light Trilogy)... Hmm.

I hope this pans out to be true just to shut the heck up the creationist movement.

[sushi]

Very small hammer?
It would have to be pretty darn small! ;)

[clayj]

That'll be a hard cell.That was horrible.

[G5Unit]

Hmmm. Call me crazy but these maybe a virus, a virus tht the PC guy had on the mac commercial! HUHH!! OMG! Every PC owner will catch this deadly virus and all mac users will be the only living people on Earth. We will have to reproduce and repopulate the planet:eek:

[Boggle]

I have to agree w/ Lemon here. There is no mention of biological "findings" about this item. The article also says, dozens of his experiments suggest that the particles may lack DNA yet still reproduce plentifully, even in water superheated to nearly 600 degrees Fahrenheit . (The known upper limit for life in water is about 250 degrees Fahrenheit .)

That means that he has NOT yet tested for DNA, all he has done is behavioral experiments, and hypothesized based on NOT doing biological analysis. If he doesn't find out the biological makeup of the item he can still claim it may be alive and alien. The fact that he's had this stuff so long and not had a biologist endorse his position is very fishy indeed.

[floriflee]

Very, very interesting! :eek:

DNA or not, I'd still like to know how these things rained from the sky.

If you've been following this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=205501) they could've come from a Death Star trash compactor.

[sushi]

If you've been following this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=205501) they could've come from a Death Star trash compactor.
Yuk! :eek:

[Mr. Anderson]

I think if it gets a full work over by real biologist and they come to the same conclusion, things will get interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next.

Anyone see the movie Evolution? Didn't that start with just a single cell organism?

D

[jsw]

Well, it would be interesting if they were of alien origin, but the fact that they came from "water taken from the mysterious blood-colored showers that fell sporadically across Louis's home state of Kerala in the summer of 2001" strongly suggests to me a terrestrial origin - I mean, if there were enough of these to color entire storms of rain, meaning they could reproduce at a rapid scale, then why aren't they taking over the planet now? I suggest it's because it's some algae bloom or whatnot, as proposed my others above.

But, yeah, it would be cool if it's what they suggest it might be.

[thedude110]

This is a physcist trying to be a biologist and failing. I can't believe this got published.

Ooh ... scientist envy. In my life this only happens when the veterinarians start insulting human doctors. :D

*grabs a bag of popcorn*

[xPismo]

Ooh ... scientist envy. In my life this only happens when the veterinarians start insulting human doctors. :D

*grabs a bag of popcorn*

LoL. I was thinking the same thing as I read this thread.

[AmbitiousLemon]

Ooh ... scientist envy. In my life this only happens when the veterinarians start insulting human doctors. :D

*grabs a bag of popcorn*

This has nothing to do with envy. These people have made fools of themselves and quite probably destroyed their careers.

Having a PhD doesn't make you an expert in all sciences. In fact, you are just an expert in one small portion of whatever science you practice in. Physicists don't know anything about biology. They don't even need to take any biology classes after high school. They don't read the journals. They don't go to the meetings. They are just as much experts in biology as any average joe.

Any biologist reading this paper would immediatly laugh. There is absolutely no experimental or even anecdotal evidence to suggest this is alien. In fact these cells look very terrestrial.

They conducted one extremely rudimentary experiment that failed and they went on to make extremely outlandish claims.

[Don't panic]

this is the paper
http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/0601022
I think as of now AmbitiousLemon has a point, as there is no reason to think that this is not terrestrial in origin.
It would still be a highly interesting discovery, and might even identify some completely new organisms, but AL is right in saying that the claims, so far, are completely unsupported by scientific evidence.
It would be cool if they are right, though.

there is already a wiki article on it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_rain_in_Kerala#_note-9

[Boggle]

And the winner of the Battle Roy-AL, is AL!

whoop, whoop, whoop.