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MacRumors
Jun 9, 2006, 03:19 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

MacOSXRumors claims (http://www.macosxrumors.com/articles/2006/06/08/exclusive-leopard-to-bring-collaborative-documents/) to have additional information on Apple's upcoming Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard revision.

According to their sources, they claim that Leopard will incorporate collaborative tools to allow users to work on documents over the internet:

The main idea is that it will be possible to declare a document as available for collaborative use over a network or Internet. Users who want to work on this document will be able to connect and work simultaneously on it. Modifications made by each user will be updated in real time for all connected users.


Support for such collaborative features are expected to be built into a framework for developers, and Apple is expected to integrate these features into future versions of iWork and iCal. A release target for Leopard is said to be January 2007.

The reliability of this information is uncertain. Previous claims (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060324092148.shtml) of integrated virtualization into Leopard have not yet been substantiated.

Very little solid information about Apple's next version of Mac OS X has been revealed. What is known at this point is that Apple plans on demoing Leopard at WWDC 2006 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/03/20060307132013.shtml) in August. Apple has also publicly stated (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060405094135.shtml) that Leopard will incorporate the final version of Boot Camp which is currently in Beta.

tigertrainer
Jun 9, 2006, 03:23 AM
I think Leopard with be an interesting release. Now that our OS is mature, Apple developers can let their creativity wander to come up with some really great stuff. We are going to love it. Vista is going to be so sorry.....

illegalprelude
Jun 9, 2006, 03:31 AM
If they released such a feature, it would be SOO amazing. Me and a good friend of mine always work on a script together but he lives in Michigan while I live in California. Allowing us to do such a thing would bring us so close in terms of our work and progress and the ease of it

bloodycape
Jun 9, 2006, 03:35 AM
Isn't this all similar to all those windows live apps and what google is planning to bring out?

netdog
Jun 9, 2006, 03:43 AM
Isn't this all similar to all those windows live apps and what google is planning to bring out?

Yes, I don't think that this is one of the wow features of Leopard. As you point out, it is simply a must have so as not to stick out as a weakness when compared to Vista.

That said, I bet that there are some wow features in Leopard that Vista will not offer. Built-in virtualization for other OS's would sure be a good start.

Stridder44
Jun 9, 2006, 03:45 AM
Is it retarded that Im more excited to see the new UI/Finder?

aegisdesign
Jun 9, 2006, 03:54 AM
Nice they're building this in as a framework.

SubEthaEdit already lets you do this. If they make it half as slick as that and available to any application then it'll be amazingly useful. The problem though is Microsoft probably still won't use it in Office as they suffer from 'Not Invented Here' syndrome and usually insist on reinventing the wheel.

Still, it'll be a nice addition to iWork.

odedia
Jun 9, 2006, 03:57 AM
Application sharing existed in Windows for years now, be it through netmeeting or thorugh MSN messenger. I really don't see the advantage of this particular approach.

aegisdesign
Jun 9, 2006, 03:59 AM
Isn't this all similar to all those windows live apps and what google is planning to bring out?

No. Office Live and the Google apps are online web based applications. What this sounds like is more like SubEthaEdit. It's more like if you mixed Word and iChat.

See http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/collaborate.html

Max on Macs
Jun 9, 2006, 04:02 AM
Nice they're building this in as a framework.

SubEthaEdit already lets you do this. If they make it half as slick as that and available to any application then it'll be amazingly useful. The problem though is Microsoft probably still won't use it in Office as they suffer from 'Not Invented Here' syndrome and usually insist on reinventing the wheel.

Still, it'll be a nice addition to iWork.
Well with a bit of luck we'll have Numbers in iWork '07 anyawy. Excel and Messenger are the only Microsoft apps I ever use these days :)

aegisdesign
Jun 9, 2006, 04:06 AM
Application sharing existed in Windows for years now, be it through netmeeting or thorugh MSN messenger. I really don't see the advantage of this particular approach.

No. That's different. That's more like Apple's Remote Desktop where the application runs on the remote machine but the client who doesn't have the application sees what's on the remote machine's display. There's only one person driving the remote application.

If this is like SubEthaEdit, imagine 7 people all typing in a document, all of them running their own copy of SubEthaEdit at full speed with live updates and each user being able to edit the doc at any position in it.

bigandy
Jun 9, 2006, 04:07 AM
interesting :rolleyes:

Multimedia
Jun 9, 2006, 04:10 AM
A release target for Leopard is said to be January 2007.
Another Post At Mac OS Rumors Says Leotard Won't Ship Til Next Summer '07. That's quite a discrepancy. Wonder why? :confused: :eek:

arn
Jun 9, 2006, 04:12 AM
Another Post At Mac OS Rumors Says Leotard Won't Ship Til Next Summer '07. That's quite a discrepancy. Wonder why? :confused: :eek:

MacOSRumors should be ignored.

MacOSXRumors doesn't have a consistent track record, but at least I'm pretty confident they aren't simply making things up to drive traffic. I can't say the same for MacOSRumors.

arn

Multimedia
Jun 9, 2006, 04:14 AM
MacOSRumors should be ignored. arnMacRumors != MacOSRumors != MacOSXRumors . . . read carefully. arnOh I see. Sorry. Missed the X. :o

Glad to hear January '07 is shipping time. That's what I thought 'til I saw that wrong MacOSRumors note today. Thanks to Macinposh for the "t" in Leotard. He needed the "p". :D

arn
Jun 9, 2006, 04:17 AM
Well if you're GOD here, how did this "news" get allowed to be posted? Slow news week? :confused: :eek:

MacRumors != MacOSRumors != MacOSXRumors

read them carefully.

arn

ImNoSuperMan
Jun 9, 2006, 04:57 AM
Well if you're GOD here, how did this "news" get allowed to be posted? Slow news week?

MacRumors != MacOSRumors != MacOSXRumors

read them carefully.

arn

I think may be you should have some rest Multi. What time is it? Do you ever sleep BTW. Its not very good to stay awake all night for your health.:D .

Anyways, i like the idea and cant wait till August to find out what Leopard really has in store. And I really hope Leopard is out before vista(shouldnt really be a difficult task considering M$`s track record).

rockthecasbah
Jun 9, 2006, 05:37 AM
that is a very great idea. It's kinda weird at the same time to think that someone is working on a document that looks like it's on your computer. Would they have a separate mouse to point stuff out or what? :confused:

Platform
Jun 9, 2006, 05:39 AM
Great, I can't wait till WWDC...:D

Evangelion
Jun 9, 2006, 05:53 AM
Here's an example (http://www.abisource.com/~uwog/abiword/abicollab.htm)

Sharewaredemon
Jun 9, 2006, 05:55 AM
I love the cake! :D


WHAT?!?!
:confused:

Anyway, this feature seems pretty neat, although I'm not sure if it will have any practical application for me.

zapp
Jun 9, 2006, 06:31 AM
I think it is great Apple is ramping up development and release of there upgrade, and has time goes by adding features, Microsoft on the other hand has delayed release (several times), and dropped key features.

Another brave feature met its end today


"Microsoft has dropped a feature from Windows Vista that would have allowed people running the new operating system to keep data synchronized among multiple PCs."

http://news.com.com/Vista+gets+out+of+PC+sync/2100-1016_3-6081232.html

dernhelm
Jun 9, 2006, 07:15 AM
...On Apple stealing another (http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/) idea from a third party developer and making it part of the OS.

thejadedmonkey
Jun 9, 2006, 07:17 AM
I think it is great Apple is ramping up development and release of there upgrade, and has time goes by adding features, Microsoft on the other hand has delayed release (several times), and dropped key features.

Another brave feature met its end today


"Microsoft has dropped a feature from Windows Vista that would have allowed people running the new operating system to keep data synchronized among multiple PCs."

http://news.com.com/Vista+gets+out+of+PC+sync/2100-1016_3-6081232.html
That was one of the few reasons left I was going to upgrade this Laptop to Vista!:mad:

AlmostThere
Jun 9, 2006, 07:33 AM
...On Apple stealing another (http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/) idea from a third party developer and making it part of the OS.

2001 has been on the phone. Apparently MS also want their features back.

7on
Jun 9, 2006, 07:47 AM
For us with Intel machines I'm sure a "tighter" intel code is probably reason enough to upgrade.

vanmonkey
Jun 9, 2006, 07:52 AM
If they released such a feature, it would be SOO amazing. Me and a good friend of mine always work on a script together but he lives in Michigan while I live in California. Allowing us to do such a thing would bring us so close in terms of our work and progress and the ease of it

Hey have you ever used Final Draft? This feature is build right into FD6. It's called Collabowriter, and it allows for live editing of your script over the net. there's a chat window as well. it's a very powerful feature and actually manages to put you in the same room wile working.

Again, just another example of Apple finding great ideas all over the place and standardizing them into all their apps.

aegisdesign
Jun 9, 2006, 08:00 AM
2001 has been on the phone. Apparently MS also want their features back.

MS has a collaborative editor like SubEthaEdit ?

Collin973
Jun 9, 2006, 08:11 AM
I'm really looking forward to Leopard. I've really enjoyed tiger (on the few times I've used it) and I think leopard will rock. Off hand, does any one know the minumum requirments for leopard?

--CP

AlmostThere
Jun 9, 2006, 08:13 AM
MS has a collaborative editor like SubEthaEdit ?
Features not programme. Try Outlook.

bigandy
Jun 9, 2006, 08:19 AM
Features not programme. Try Outlook.

And then try booking some sort of 'stress relieving vacation'.

;)

bigandy
Jun 9, 2006, 08:21 AM
Hey have you ever used Final Draft? This feature is build right into FD6. It's called Collabowriter, and it allows for live editing of your script over the net. there's a chat window as well. it's a very powerful feature and actually manages to put you in the same room wile working.

i never noticed that.. i'll have to go check that out on me FD7

notjustjay
Jun 9, 2006, 08:36 AM
Collaborative iCal sounds like a nice simple way of synchronizing a single calendar amongst busy family members. One at work, one at home, ...

billyboy
Jun 9, 2006, 08:39 AM
Here's an example (http://www.abisource.com/~uwog/abiword/abicollab.htm)
That collaborative abiword demo is an example of technology and applications available across platform. Apple solutions are usually simple and elegant forms of doing what someone somewhere is already doing.
So perhaps Apple cant offer anything brandspanking new and ultra original as a feature in Leopard, but can you imagine for one moment that Apple would produce anything as clumsy as that abiword demo with the terminal as a starting point?

Peace
Jun 9, 2006, 08:39 AM
To say Apple is stealing ideas.Or for that matter.Microsoft,Real or even Netscape ( the original ) is akin to saying iChat,AOLIM,Yahoo Messenger,MSN Messenger are all rip-offs of one individual idea.They may be, but "Ideas" can be thought up by a lot of different people at the same time.Doesn't make them rip-offs..People generally think alike..Coming up with collaberative tools may not be something new.But it is something useful and something most people have thought of.

I "thought" of that sort of tool in 1987.Should I get the money? No..


As for the rest..I too am looking forward to the new finder..

lmalave
Jun 9, 2006, 08:46 AM
That said, I bet that there are some wow features in Leopard that Vista will not offer. Built-in virtualization for other OS's would sure be a good start.

Well, virtualization is another rumored feature...

thinkdiffifdent
Jun 9, 2006, 08:48 AM
I was only very dimly aware of subethaedit (http://http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/), so thanks to forum members for the steer on that one. It does look nice... and it's Mac only. Some of the folk I want to collaborate with do insist on using PCs... and I have to use one at work.

A very BASIC, but nice tool, that's completely web-based and hence platform independent is Writeboard (http://www.writeboard.com/)from 37 signals (http://www.37signals.com/). I've used that a bit with PC and Mac based colleagues for hammering out ideas. Because it's pretty basic, it won't be suitable for some. But for hammering out ideas, putting together pitches and proposals, it can be just the job. Oh, and it's free.

Scarlet Fever
Jun 9, 2006, 08:53 AM
i also remember a while back MacOSRumors claimed that Apple would drop the 20 and 23" displays and make 30" the baseline, with a 42" topping the line out :p

Well the 30" did come, but its still at the top...

Moral: take MacOSRumors with a grain (or an ocean) of salt.

wnurse
Jun 9, 2006, 08:59 AM
MS has a collaborative editor like SubEthaEdit ?

Are you getting paid for each mention of SubEthaEdit?.

Lollypop
Jun 9, 2006, 09:11 AM
IF (big if) this happens it would be cool if apple really did provide a decent framework as well, just imagine the things that could be done... and the pro apps! hehe Editing a video in FCP awhile someone else is also editing another part of the entire video! Would also be cool if apple could make some sort of advanced features available on their servers, given even more incentive to go XServe! :D

nemostultae
Jun 9, 2006, 09:16 AM

smitty97
Jun 9, 2006, 09:21 AM
Apple's tried this before.. doesnt anyone remember Publish & Subscribe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publish_and_Subscribe) from System 7? it was nice, but nobody figured out what to use it for.

aegisdesign
Jun 9, 2006, 09:34 AM
Features not programme. Try Outlook.

Huh? It's nothing like Outlook.

If you'd used SubEthaEdit you'd know that. Or just watch the AbiWord wordprocessor demo posted earlier - it's like that but without the horrible network dialogs as it uses Apple's Bonjour tech to find people. It's not just sharing a calendar on an Exchange server, it's realtime editing of documents and data across a network with no server involved.

If you just want to share calendars you can do that already in iCal by publishing your calendar to a network DAV share and subscribing to your workmate's calendars.

morespce54
Jun 9, 2006, 09:42 AM
Collaborative iCal sounds like a nice simple way of synchronizing a single calendar amongst busy family members. One at work, one at home, ...

right... Now I won't "absolutely" need a third party device (like Palm) to keep my three macs' iCal sync'd... ;) :)

rwmoore
Jun 9, 2006, 09:43 AM
...On Apple stealing another (http://www.codingmonkeys.de/subethaedit/) idea from a third party developer and making it part of the OS.


Actually, I saw an Apple demo on campus when I was a grad student, oh must of been at about 10-15 years ago, where the Apple rep giving the demo opened a document and then via conference call and Apple ARA, I believe, and another Apple Rep in another city opened the same file and they editted it together. Don't remember much, but each rep had a different color when highlighting and typing. I just remember how useful it would be and always wanted to try it out. So Apple, at least, has had the idea for some time now and I think the technology has been around long enough in enough different formats that you can't really say it is stealling.

RogueWarrior65
Jun 9, 2006, 09:46 AM
But the real question is whether it's at the OS level or some feature that you have to write in friggin' Cocoa to support.

dernhelm
Jun 9, 2006, 09:57 AM
Features not programme. Try Outlook.

Huh? How can you use Outlook to have two people simultaneously edit a document?

How is anything outlook does related to real-time collaboration. It is a calendar, and repository - that's pretty much it.

dernhelm
Jun 9, 2006, 10:05 AM
Actually, I saw an Apple demo on campus when I was a grad student, oh must of been at about 10-15 years ago, where the Apple rep giving the demo opened a document and then via conference call and Apple ARA, I believe, and another Apple Rep in another city opened the same file and they editted it together. Don't remember much, but each rep had a different color when highlighting and typing. I just remember how useful it would be and always wanted to try it out. So Apple, at least, has had the idea for some time now and I think the technology has been around long enough in enough different formats that you can't really say it is stealling.

I agree the idea wasn't new. But that won't stop the whining. Or don't you remember when Dashboard came out and every other thread was hijacked to cry outrage at the treatment of Konfabulator? Widgets were around before Konfabulator then as well, but that didn't stop the outrage from permeating every other thread.

I like Code Monkeys and the work they do. I've purchased SubEthaEdit, and I will continue to support them in the future. But I still also support OS level support for this type of feature - the possibilities it opens up are almost endless. And it will give Apple developers a big leg up on things.

Now if we could only get Apple to knock the dust of some of the Cocoa frameworks and give them all a thorough updating.

aegisdesign
Jun 9, 2006, 10:22 AM
The collaborative editing features seem parallel to the stuff Steve Jobs demoed in this NeXTSTEP video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A&search=steve%20jobs%20next%20demo).

No, that was more like OLE on Windows. You linked in objects inside other documents that were updated by themselves. It didn't actually allow multiple users editing the same document. It was also a pig to work with because if you moved it off the network all the links broke.

aegisdesign
Jun 9, 2006, 10:28 AM
I like Code Monkeys and the work they do. I've purchased SubEthaEdit, and I will continue to support them in the future. But I still also support OS level support for this type of feature - the possibilities it opens up are almost endless. And it will give Apple developers a big leg up on things.

Now if we could only get Apple to knock the dust of some of the Cocoa frameworks and give them all a thorough updating.


Same here. If it means they have an OS level framework to use instead of having to roll their own, I'd imagine they'd be quite pleased with that. They can then concentrate on making the rest of the editor even better.

For Cocoa frameworks, I'll have a revised DB Kit / EOF in the OS thanks with a nice iWorks level DB builder for normal people.

DStaal
Jun 9, 2006, 10:57 AM
How much anyone want to bet that this is just integrated CVS (http://www.nongnu.org/cvs/)?

CVS is already installed as part of the dev tools at least; and it might even be part of the normal install. It does everything mentioned, but it is a pain to get set up. If Apple would come along and put a slick front end, both user-level and API, on it, that would be great.

(It could also be any of the CVS replacements that have been written as well, of course.)

lmalave
Jun 9, 2006, 11:13 AM
Huh? How can you use Outlook to have two people simultaneously edit a document?

How is anything outlook does related to real-time collaboration. It is a calendar, and repository - that's pretty much it.

You can't do it with OutLook, but you can do it with net meeting.

In fact, you can share *any* application window, or your whole desktop. The difference from what Apple is doing is that with NetMeeting, only one person has the "real" copy of the document, and everyone is editing that single instance of the document. What Applie is apparently implmenting is real-time synchronization of a document between multiple parties that are collaborating on the document.

rayz
Jun 9, 2006, 11:21 AM
Huh? It's nothing like Outlook.

If you'd used SubEthaEdit you'd know that. Or just watch the AbiWord wordprocessor demo posted earlier - it's like that but without the horrible network dialogs as it uses Apple's Bonjour tech to find people. It's not just sharing a calendar on an Exchange server, it's realtime editing of documents and data across a network with no server involved.


Sounds like the Collaboration thingy in Vista

Is there really a call two or more people editing the same document, at the same time?

aftk2
Jun 9, 2006, 11:22 AM
Apple's tried this before.. doesnt anyone remember Publish & Subscribe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publish_and_Subscribe) from System 7? it was nice, but nobody figured out what to use it for.

Heh, that's actually what I thought of too, along with other abandoned Apple technologies like OpenDoc. With everyone being such a fan of Mac OS X these days, sometimes it feels like strengths of the Mac pre-OS-X are ignored, which is too bad: some days I feel like I could get more work done in OS 9 than OS X, in spite of its crashing every 3-4 hours ;) (and provided I could take Expose with me.)

andrewm
Jun 9, 2006, 11:54 AM
Is it retarded that Im more excited to see the new UI/Finder?

I feel the same way. I want to see the 'wow!' features, but what I really want to know is how my UI will have been improved. (Let's *not* start a flame-war, shall we, but I really hate the current Finder. Couldn't they Cocoa-ify it, like PathFinder?)

MacMyDay
Jun 9, 2006, 12:12 PM
I like Coding Monkeys too, but for slightly different reasons ;)

On another note, this sort of technology would certainly help in regard to editing CSS/XHTML files without any confusion taking place.

cgmpowers
Jun 9, 2006, 12:14 PM
I

cgmpowers
Jun 9, 2006, 12:19 PM
I for one would like iCal to support this online updating. I've been out and about in the world and wanted to add a date event and had to wait until I get home to do so. It'd be very nice to get to a browser and add my event on the fly. But then again, if my iPod was capable of that, I'd be also equally happy.

For the boot camp finalization. What if fast user switching enabled you to fast OS switching? Log onto the MacOS then switch users and log into the WinOS and then switch back and forth when you need too. That's my dream senerio.

Christopher

APPLENEWBIE
Jun 9, 2006, 12:56 PM
Just like the header above.....

mozmac
Jun 9, 2006, 01:02 PM
Yeah, I can't wait to see a new Finder and more reliable (and FASTER) networking.

AstroPlain
Jun 9, 2006, 01:04 PM
Don't forget Gobby, which is completely open source. It runs on Mac OS X with X11, and at one time I had considered writing an Cocoa interface for it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobby
http://gobby.0x539.de/

boncellis
Jun 9, 2006, 01:15 PM
I feel the same way. I want to see the 'wow!' features, but what I really want to know is how my UI will have been improved. (Let's *not* start a flame-war, shall we, but I really hate the current Finder. Couldn't they Cocoa-ify it, like PathFinder?)

I've read so many posts calling for the same thing since about 2003. I really wonder what goes through Apple's collective mind when they hear that suggestion--one I wholeheartedly support. What could be their rebuttal, seriously?

Collaboration seems like something that was bound to happen--maybe even some form of built in versioning software could be included in the future. But I agree with andrewm, I'm waiting for the killer features. And no, dual-booting isn't really "killer" in my mind, more like a necessary evil.

MacVault
Jun 9, 2006, 01:24 PM
Is it retarded that Im more excited to see the new UI/Finder?

Not retarded at all - I agree, Apple better revamp the UI/Finder in Leapard because the more I use Windows XP the more I think the current OS X GUI SUCKS!

Also, how is Apple integrating this "document collaboration" feature unless they also build something for us to make documents in? Such as an Apple Office suite.

SeaFox
Jun 9, 2006, 02:30 PM
Another Post At Mac OS Rumors Says Leotard Won't Ship Til Next Summer '07. That's quite a discrepancy. Wonder why? :confused: :eek:

I thought Leopard was supposed to be out in the late fall, this push into early next year would be quite deliberate I think given Vista has now been posponed till early next year (assuming it actually ships).

latourfl
Jun 9, 2006, 02:54 PM
In fact, you can share *any* application window, or your whole desktop. The difference from what Apple is doing is that with NetMeeting, only one person has the "real" copy of the document, and everyone is editing that single instance of the document. What Applie is apparently implmenting is real-time synchronization of a document between multiple parties that are collaborating on the document.


Well, it goes well beyond "having the real copy" of a document. NetMeeting apparently only allows a person at the time to control the document, therefore be able to edit, while Apple's solution apparently allows everyone to edit the document at the same time. It's like having the document on a huge whiteboard where everyone can write at the same time, whereas NetMeeting is like everyone sitting around a table, waiting for the sheet and pen to add their own editing.

boncellis
Jun 9, 2006, 03:26 PM
How about this as a "killer feature" for Leopard:

Rosetta 2.0: Now you can use any program in OS X--including Linux and Windows programs--without having to boot into that system.

After all, I don't want XP on my computer, but I need a program or two.

tilman
Jun 9, 2006, 04:27 PM
MS has a collaborative editor like SubEthaEdit ?

Microsoft OneNote 2007, available as a public beta, has some very impressive collaboration features. Sharing is possible with nothing more than a shared folder on the network. Updates are live - there are no Edit, Save, or Refresh buttons. It transparently keeps local copies of the files, so that you can continue to edit while offline. Synchronization to the shared storage is automatic when you reconnect. It would be great if this makes it into the next version of Office ont he Mac, too.

tilman
Jun 9, 2006, 05:24 PM
Can someone explain Virtualization, versus emulation, versus dual boot?

You can look this up yourself at http://www.wikipedia.org. Just read the first paragraph for each term to get an idea.

dernhelm
Jun 9, 2006, 07:48 PM
Heh, that's actually what I thought of too, along with other abandoned Apple technologies like OpenDoc. With everyone being such a fan of Mac OS X these days, sometimes it feels like strengths of the Mac pre-OS-X are ignored, which is too bad: some days I feel like I could get more work done in OS 9 than OS X, in spite of its crashing every 3-4 hours ;) (and provided I could take Expose with me.)

Oooo, an addition 2 Karma points for referencing OpenDoc in proper context!

I actually did some OpenDoc programming back in the day. Not that I'd ever admit to that on a resume...

dernhelm
Jun 9, 2006, 07:51 PM
You can't do it with OutLook, but you can do it with net meeting.

In fact, you can share *any* application window, or your whole desktop. The difference from what Apple is doing is that with NetMeeting, only one person has the "real" copy of the document, and everyone is editing that single instance of the document. What Applie is apparently implmenting is real-time synchronization of a document between multiple parties that are collaborating on the document.

NetMeeting? Oh, you mean that Timbuktu rip-off... :rolleyes:

Desktop/application sharing is a whole lot different than document collaboration, as anyone who has fought for control of the mouse on a server system with 3 other people timbuktu'd in can attest. That simply isn't what we are talking about here.

BGil
Jun 9, 2006, 09:45 PM
MS has a collaborative editor like SubEthaEdit ?

OneNote 2003SP1 does all that stuff:
Breakthrough experiences, like real-time note sharing. If you're the only person you know who has OneNote, then this is not of much use to you, but if you work with others, such as in a team, it is very powerful. We do our status meetings using this. One of us invites the others to a shared session, then everyone joins and adds their status to the status page - all at the same time. It is freaky to watch, since the whole page is filled in after about 2 min, with text and diagrams appearing all over the place. Then the whole meeting is way faster because you can read the status and not wait for each person to say all of it. Once I had to be at home and had to miss the meeting, and decided to join a shared session that was going on at work. I could see everything everyone else could see who was actually in the room, and could even add comments and ask questions silently by typing them into the shared note surface. Wow - try doing that over just the phone.
...
Shared Sessions real-time peer-to-peer multi-user sessions (we had over 70 people once)
From the Onenote Blog here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/chris_pratley/archive/2004/06/25/165609.aspx

http://blogs.msdn.com/chris_pratley/archive/2005/02/22/378667.aspx

Windows/MSN Messenger does similar things with application sharing as do serveral other Microsoft products like ConferenceXP and Live Meeting/Net Meeting.
http://www.conferencexp.com/community/
http://www.microsoft.com/office/livemeeting/prodinfo/default.mspx

Very 2001.

bloodycape
Jun 9, 2006, 10:05 PM
So this is still kinda un-clear to me is this then like Office live, Messenger live and what not or is it totally different?

Lollypop
Jun 10, 2006, 12:44 AM
How much anyone want to bet that this is just integrated CVS (http://www.nongnu.org/cvs/)?

CVS is already installed as part of the dev tools at least; and it might even be part of the normal install. It does everything mentioned, but it is a pain to get set up. If Apple would come along and put a slick front end, both user-level and API, on it, that would be great.

(It could also be any of the CVS replacements that have been written as well, of course.)

Maybe underneat it all there might be some bits of CVS, but there is going to be a lot of new stuff thats going to be added if its the case. As far as I know CVS doesnt really show the people that have checked out a piece of code in real time what the others are doing.

encro
Jun 10, 2006, 03:21 AM
So this is still kinda un-clear to me is this then like Office live, Messenger live and what not or is it totally different?


Imagine someone has a document open that they have made available for access to everyone on the internet. Everyone has the document open on their computer each making changes in real time. Each person is watching everyone elses changes happen while they are altering something else. Its nuts when you have 30 or so people doing stuff at the same time. Things happen so quickly :)

Now imagine that was a possibility in every application at API level.

netdog
Jun 10, 2006, 04:30 AM
How about this as a "killer feature" for Leopard:

Rosetta 2.0: Now you can use any program in OS X--including Linux and Windows programs--without having to boot into that system.

After all, I don't want XP on my computer, but I need a program or two.

I think they might want to rename that Grail

netdog
Jun 10, 2006, 04:34 AM
As for the online collaborative features, it sounds as if every will offer it, and it sounds cool, but frankly, as pointed out before, there has been a lot of this technology built-in and/or available for free before, but the demand for such features seems very limited. A few may need to use it, but honestly, usually revisions work better for most situations in which multiple parties are working on a document over time.

rayz
Jun 10, 2006, 04:41 AM
As for the online collaborative features, it sounds as if every will offer it, and it sounds cool, but frankly, as pointed out before, there has been a lot of this technology built-in and/or available for free before, but the demand for such features seems very limited. A few may need to use it, but honestly, usually revisions work better for most situations in which multiple parties are working on a document over time.


Exactly.

Two or three people editing the same document? Sounds like a confusing mess to me.

aegisdesign
Jun 10, 2006, 04:58 AM
As for the online collaborative features, it sounds as if every will offer it, and it sounds cool, but frankly, as pointed out before, there has been a lot of this technology built-in and/or available for free before, but the demand for such features seems very limited. A few may need to use it, but honestly, usually revisions work better for most situations in which multiple parties are working on a document over time.

Try it.

The old way of working collaboratively was to check a file out to one person, make the changes and put it back before another person could. Or if you were feeling brave, using branch and merge. It was nowhere near as quick and you often had to nursemaid the branch/merge. It's great for programmers and great for writers. I'm not sure where else it'd fit though.

Lollypop
Jun 10, 2006, 07:05 AM
Try it.

The old way of working collaboratively was to check a file out to one person, make the changes and put it back before another person could. Or if you were feeling brave, using branch and merge. It was nowhere near as quick and you often had to nursemaid the branch/merge. It's great for programmers and great for writers. I'm not sure where else it'd fit though.

Its all nice that Apple is providing the next generation of collaberation tools, but what about the traditional set of collaberation tools, like those that MS sharepoint brings to the corporate environment?

MacVault
Jun 10, 2006, 01:36 PM
Its all nice that Apple is providing the next generation of collaberation tools, but what about the traditional set of collaberation tools, like those that MS sharepoint brings to the corporate environment?

EXACTLY! I soooo wish Apple would take on the corporate/enterprise market... create a real alternative to Active Directory, Exchange, Sharepoint, Microsoft SQL Server, Outlook (Apple's Mail app is not even close to Outlook), etc.

After working as Network Admin at a credit union and setting up all the above mentioned Microsoft solutions I have to say Microsoft really did a great job, but I would still like an Apple alternative. I'd like to see Apple do an even better job, but seems like they're not that interested in this market, unfortunately.

Demoman
Jun 11, 2006, 12:01 AM
Microsoft OneNote 2007, available as a public beta, has some very impressive collaboration features. Sharing is possible with nothing more than a shared folder on the network. Updates are live - there are no Edit, Save, or Refresh buttons. It transparently keeps local copies of the files, so that you can continue to edit while offline. Synchronization to the shared storage is automatic when you reconnect. It would be great if this makes it into the next version of Office ont he Mac, too.

Thanks, Bill!

bwanac
Jun 11, 2006, 12:38 AM
Do we have a release date on this yet?

Speculation?

I want to get a MacBook to replace my Mini and Powerbook, but I am waiting for the next OS upgrade! September? November!? I am also waiting for Adobe support of the new Intel binaries! Cant it come sooner! A designer is in desperate need! Just kidding... my IE buddies can help me out!

Oh... Parallels how I wish to use you! :eek:

Riquez
Jun 11, 2006, 04:02 AM
Apple has also publicly stated (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060405094135.shtml) that Leopard will incorporate the final version of Boot Camp which is currently in Beta.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the final bootcamp will run Windows Vista natively in another user account - so you can just Fast User Switch between OS X & Win Vista.
Not that I'll be using that feature, but I can't wait to see Bill's face.

rayz
Jun 11, 2006, 11:04 AM
I wouldn't be too surprised if the final bootcamp will run Windows Vista natively in another user account - so you can just Fast User Switch between OS X & Win Vista.
Not that I'll be using that feature, but I can't wait to see Bill's face.

Well, since Bill will be helping them do it, I don't think he'll look that suprised. On the other hand, given the large number of Windows licenses he'll sell to Mac users, then I imagine he will probably look ... a tad smug .... ;)

Evangelion
Jun 13, 2006, 04:59 AM
I wouldn't be too surprised if the final bootcamp will run Windows Vista natively in another user account - so you can just Fast User Switch between OS X & Win Vista.
Not that I'll be using that feature, but I can't wait to see Bill's face.

More people running Windows. My guess is that he would be smiling.

scibry
Jun 14, 2006, 01:52 AM
i would see this more as business-oriented, if not programmer community oriented, than consumer oriented as far as distance colloboration. yes scientists too but me? assuming everyone on a college project team had a mac well why not? sure.