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MacRumors
Jun 19, 2006, 07:54 PM
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According to one source, Apple will finally be releasing the Universal version of Shake (4.1) tomorrow. Alongside it will be a significant price drop, rumored to be $499 (down from $2999).

The future of Shake, however, would be in jeopardy, as the 4.1 release is said to be the last release with scale backs in the development team. The demise of Shake, however, would be relieved by another high-end compositing application not due until 2008.

There have previously been reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/01/20060104145624.shtml) of a high end Final Cut Extreme application in the works.

Update (moved to page 1): As rumored, Shake 4.1 (universal) has been released, with a significant price drop as expected (now $499 USD). There are no official indications that this is indeed the last major release of Shake beyond Apple not continuing its maintenance program, but that does not preclude the possibility, as Apple may still want to sell the reduced-priced compositing software until their new high-end solution is available circa 2008.

jaxstate
Jun 19, 2006, 08:02 PM
damn, now that's a price drop

Phat_Pat
Jun 19, 2006, 08:21 PM
damn

count me in

twistedlegato
Jun 19, 2006, 08:59 PM
That price drop sounds too extreme for such good software...maybe like it will be umm.....$2000...yes that sounds more reasonable the $500.....it is very complex software....and are you saying it should sell less than Logic pro..which is nowhere near the "goodness" of shake..though if it was really $500.....:rolleyes:

jaxstate
Jun 19, 2006, 09:04 PM
I'm thinking this is a typo. This is a $2500 price drop. But if it isn't a typo, I'd get and learn how to use it as I go.
That price drop sounds too extreme for such good software...maybe like it will be umm.....$2000...yes that sounds more reasonable the $500.....it is very complex software....and are you saying it should sell less than Logic pro..which is nowhere near the "goodness" of shake..though if it was really $500.....:rolleyes:

shaker2006
Jun 19, 2006, 10:04 PM
I'm thinking this is a typo. This is a $2500 price drop. But if it isn't a typo, I'd get and learn how to use it as I go.


It is true fellas.Apple is dropping the price to $499 and Shake 4.1 will be the LAST version of shake. They are killing the product. They will also release a non-locked version to all people on support, thus there will be a "free" version of Shake floating around the net soon.

leftfoot
Jun 19, 2006, 10:12 PM
To bad my ****** G4 would beg for mercy if I even tried to run the installer.

amac4me
Jun 19, 2006, 10:25 PM
I doubt Apple would drop the price to $500.

longofest
Jun 19, 2006, 10:32 PM
I'm thinking this is a typo. This is a $2500 price drop. But if it isn't a typo, I'd get and learn how to use it as I go.

It's not a typo. We'll see tomorrow what happens, but if this is true, then you'd have to think the corresponding comments about the future of Shake would also be true (as in, Shake is pretty much being axed in lieu of the upcoming 2008 product).

Platform
Jun 19, 2006, 10:51 PM
500 bucks :eek:

Wonder what the new development will do though :cool:

thegreatluke
Jun 19, 2006, 10:52 PM
It is true fellas.Apple is dropping the price to $499 and Shake 4.1 will be the LAST version of shake. They are killing the product. They will also release a non-locked version to all people on support, thus there will be a "free" version of Shake floating around the net soon.
Free?

As in... legal free?

As in Apple offering it on their website for download like iTunes and Quicktime free?

I think I just heard my wallet thank me.

ChrisFromCanada
Jun 19, 2006, 10:59 PM
Free?

As in... legal free?

As in Apple offering it on their website for download like iTunes and Quicktime free?

I think I just heard my wallet thank me.

Nope as in illegal.

However, an easy to install a pirated version type of free.

thegreatluke
Jun 19, 2006, 11:02 PM
Nope as in illegal.

However, an easy to install a pirated version type of free.
Oh.

Uh, well, yeah. >_>

puckhead193
Jun 19, 2006, 11:02 PM
that's way to low for that imagine someone buying that at 3,000 and now they can get it for only $500 :rolleyes:
i wonder how well it would run on a mbp or imac.. 2 gigs of ram...
edit - actually the current specs aren't that bad

shaker2006
Jun 19, 2006, 11:06 PM
Nope as in illegal.

However, an easy to install a pirated version type of free.


The free, unlocked version will be downloadable to only those who were on support before.

trrosen
Jun 19, 2006, 11:23 PM
499 sounds about right to me. Apple just doesn't need to be in that industry only price bracket ($1500+). At $499 they can sell a copy to everyone that has FinalCut. Better to sell a 100,000 copies at 499 then 10,000 at $2499. Now if only Apple would buy a CAD company(hmmmArchiCAD) and a 3D company(Alias).

tk421
Jun 19, 2006, 11:49 PM
499 sounds about right to me. Apple just doesn't need to be in that industry only price bracket ($1500+). At $499 they can sell a copy to everyone that has FinalCut. Better to sell a 100,000 copies at 499 then 10,000 at $2499. Now if only Apple would buy a CAD company(hmmmArchiCAD) and a 3D company(Alias).

Have you ever used Shake? It's nowhere near the user-friendliness of FCP. It is definitely designed for industry only.

puckhead193
Jun 19, 2006, 11:54 PM
Have you ever used Shake? It's nowhere near the user-friendliness of FCP. It is definitely designed for industry only.
out of boredom i was looking at classes, some of those classes are pricey. It was over $1,000 for motion (3 day class) :eek:

ezekielrage_99
Jun 20, 2006, 12:54 AM
I can see Apple dropping Shake from $2999 to $2499, a $500 drop but from $2999 to $499 I think it's highly unlikely.

If Apple does start selling Shake for $499 I'll buy a copy :D

ezekielrage_99
Jun 20, 2006, 12:59 AM
499 sounds about right to me. Apple just doesn't need to be in that industry only price bracket ($1500+). At $499 they can sell a copy to everyone that has FinalCut. Better to sell a 100,000 copies at 499 then 10,000 at $2499. Now if only Apple would buy a CAD company(hmmmArchiCAD) and a 3D company(Alias).

Personally I would not like to see all the creative software produced by one company, it would be a very bad move, less choice = less competiveness = less creativity.

Look at the software companies that have merged over the last few years and the quaility of the products being release, discreet used to release so many fanatastic products now after the Autodesk merger the standards have dropped significantly.

The only reason I can see Apple dropping the price of Shake is to compete with products like Combustion, Smoke and Flame.

Macnoviz
Jun 20, 2006, 01:00 AM
Would Hollywood producers still use a 500 dollar program instead of a 3000 dollar one? Maybe they'll switch just because tons of YouTube amateurs will start using their software.
It would be merely psychological, of course, because only pro's could use it to it's full potential.

ChrisA
Jun 20, 2006, 01:25 AM
I can see Apple dropping Shake from $2999 to $2499, a $500 drop but from $2999 to $499 I think it's highly unlikely.

If Apple does start selling Shake for $499 I'll buy a copy :D

You pretty much told us all WHY Apple is dropping the price. You and a few thousand other people will pay $500 but not $3k. Actually that may have already sold it to everyone who is willing to pay $3.

Also if you are going to end development Apple's costs go down dramatically, so they can afford to reduce the price.

bigandy
Jun 20, 2006, 03:23 AM
Have you ever used Shake? It's nowhere near the user-friendliness of FCP. It is definitely designed for industry only.

because it was never originally an apple product - it was bought in.

i don't believe it'll drop to $500, because the industry pays the current great value $2000 or whatever it is in the states, because it's better than most competitors and cheaper too.

if there is a completely new product in the works the price may drop a bit, but i don't see it going down that much.

beerstine
Jun 20, 2006, 04:25 AM
I would doubt that much of a price drop, but if the app will be replaced, some significant drop is likely.

I would suspect that elements of Shake's technology could live on in future editions of Motion and Final Cut Pro, albeit with better interfaces. Motion sorely needs 3D capability and high-res 2K and 4K film capabilities can be used in FCP which seeks a larger share of the feature film editing market.

juanm
Jun 20, 2006, 05:28 AM
I wish there was a Mac version of Digital Fusion... and an educational version of it!

Juan

stingerman
Jun 20, 2006, 05:30 AM
The price drop has more to do with non-universal Photoshop than anything else. Shake has some pretty strong paint features and will soon be universal. This is the backup strategy Apple had in case Adobe dragged their feet on supporting Macs. Apple is now entering in a bigger way the competition for the Photoshop and After-effects market, in order to preserve their Pro business.

grabberslasher
Jun 20, 2006, 05:34 AM
Sounds like an amazing price drop, but then again do you remember WebObjects? $50,000 to $500 in one night. That's a fourty nine thousand dollar reduction :P

I'm saddened to hear that Apple is stopping Shake, especially after cancelling the Linux/IRIX and Windows versions.

Mac Kiwi
Jun 20, 2006, 05:47 AM
Damn if that price is true I am in with both feet.


Shake rocks.

Lone Deranger
Jun 20, 2006, 06:51 AM
I'll believe it when I see it.... and then purchase a copy immediately. :)

If true.. I could (almost) forgive Apple for the rumoured 50 cents debacle.

One thing to keep in mind is that shocking price drops have happened in the past for VFX related software. XSI Foundation 5.1 costs $495 which is about the best deal you can find in this industry. It used to be well in the thousands (and tens of thousands if you track it back to the halcyon days of SI3D). And the full package (XSI Advanced) is currently half price at $3499 or so.

Rocket Rion
Jun 20, 2006, 07:48 AM
4.1 is out, and there is no price drop. Another useless rumor.

gc152
Jun 20, 2006, 07:48 AM
It happened check it out;

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/

Rocket Rion is wrong there is a price drop!

Electro Funk
Jun 20, 2006, 07:49 AM
wow.... it is true! i cant believe that price cut! simply crazy! :eek:

Rocket Rion
Jun 20, 2006, 07:53 AM
Yeah, the press release just came out with the price drop, but the store was still showing $2499. My bad.

Rocket Rion
Jun 20, 2006, 08:17 AM
Shake finally has an academic version. $249!

twistedlegato
Jun 20, 2006, 08:24 AM
Whoa this is...way toooo much...wow apple you really made a bold move:rolleyes: :cool:

bigandy
Jun 20, 2006, 08:24 AM
it's not been updated to reflect the new prices on the UK or UK-HE stores :(

shaker2006
Jun 20, 2006, 08:39 AM
You guys are totally missing the boat here. Apple is killing Shake. This is the last version of the software they will release. So now you can afford it but in a few years it will be useless to know it because most place that currently use it will begin to migrate to a product that continues to be supported.

Apple is glossing over the killing of Shake with their press release by making it seem like they are making it easier for you the end user to get Shake.

Apple will no longer support it and you cannot even do a per-incident support call on it.

Macnoviz
Jun 20, 2006, 09:00 AM
You guys are totally missing the boat here. Apple is killing Shake. This is the last version of the software they will release. So now you can afford it but in a few years it will be useless to know it because most place that currently use it will begin to migrate to a product that continues to be supported.

Apple is glossing over the killing of Shake with their press release by making it seem like they are making it easier for you the end user to get Shake.

Apple will no longer support it and you cannot even do a per-incident support call on it.

Only to make room for an even better program...

shaker2006
Jun 20, 2006, 09:02 AM
Only to make room for an even better program...


If, and it is a HUGE if, If Apple comes out with a Shake replacement it will not be here till, and this is the earliest, 2008.

longofest
Jun 20, 2006, 09:04 AM
Only to make room for an even better program...

... in 2008 (if it goes according to schedule).

iGav
Jun 20, 2006, 09:16 AM
£1,999 to £329 That's not a bad drop is it... :eek: :p

Though the original cost isn't exactly an especially big problem to those in the biz... about 4 hours work infact. heh. :D

mkaake
Jun 20, 2006, 09:34 AM
$250 edu price... :eek:

nagromme
Jun 20, 2006, 09:39 AM
Maybe when the future Final Cut Insane Super Studio (or whatever) comes out, the current version of Shake will be tweaked to become Shake Express or something, while a new Shake Pro steps in at the high end.

Other pro apps have seen big price drops from Apple and not vanished, I seem to recall.

Lone Deranger
Jun 20, 2006, 10:04 AM
You guys are totally missing the boat here. Apple is killing Shake. This is the last version of the software they will release.

For $499 I get an awesome piece of Software that can make me a ******** of $$$.... even if they decided to stop supporting it tomorrow. Not getting a license now would be missing the boat... :)

longofest
Jun 20, 2006, 10:29 AM
For $499 I get an awesome piece of Software that can make me a ******** of $$$.... even if they decided to stop supporting it tomorrow. Not getting a license now would be missing the boat... :)

I think that is what Apple is hoping users will focus on. And it is indeed a pretty good deal if you don't mind not getting updates.

mjstew33
Jun 20, 2006, 10:31 AM
WTF?

I didn't know if this has been noted but, look, Apple developed Shake 4 for LINUX.

HERE (http://www.apple.com/shake/specs.html)

bcisgo
Jun 20, 2006, 10:33 AM
You know, the drop in price is what it is. But I gotta say that to then charge 4.0 users who ponied up 3 GRAND to buy Shake another $49 to "crossgrade" to 4.1 is insulting in the extreme.

I'm getting sick of Apple's contempt for their customer base.

mjstew33
Jun 20, 2006, 10:38 AM
yeah, your right bcisgo it is rediculous:rolleyes:

nuckinfutz
Jun 20, 2006, 10:40 AM
WTF?

I didn't know if this has been noted but, look, Apple developed Shake 4 for LINUX.

HERE (http://www.apple.com/shake/specs.html)

Shake has run on Linux for years. When Apple acquired Nothing Real (Shakes creator) they killed the windows version and kept the Linux albeit at a higher price.

Frankly it doesn't matter if Shake 4.1 is the final version before a new app is created. The point blank truth is that it you can still do wonderful things with it and at the current pricing every workstation in some studios will become a Shake station if desired.

This is great news no matter how you slice it.

mjstew33
Jun 20, 2006, 10:41 AM
Oh, sorry, I didn't know. :o

ChrisBrightwell
Jun 20, 2006, 10:47 AM
This is absolutely amazing.

Maxed out 17" MBP w/ Final Cut Studio, Logic Pro, Shake, and Aperture ... $5000 edu. That's so completely mind-boggling right now. A complete production environment for only $5000.

What's bad is I have enough in savings to cover it. Must resist.

nuckinfutz
Jun 20, 2006, 10:48 AM
This is absolutely amazing.

Maxed out 17" MBP w/ Final Cut Studio, Logic Pro, Shake, and Aperture ... $5000 edu. That's so completely mind-boggling right now. A complete production environment for only $5000.

What's bad is I have enough in savings to cover it. Must resist.

Savings? Pfffft you're young...make it happen. :D

ChrisBrightwell
Jun 20, 2006, 10:50 AM
Savings? Pfffft you're young...make it happen. :DIf I weren't getting married in mid-August ... :(

I already have Aperture and don't need Logic, so that helps. If I can get a decent sale on my 15" PowerBook, it may happen by the end of the year. Depends on a few things, but Shake+FCS is definitely making me feel the upgrade bug a bit more.

Multimedia
Jun 20, 2006, 10:51 AM
This is absolutely amazing.

Maxed out 17" MBP w/ Final Cut Studio, Logic Pro, Shake, and Aperture ... $5000 edu. That's so completely mind-boggling right now. A complete production environment for only $5000.

What's bad is I have enough in savings to cover it. Must resist.I agree. But regardless of what price we can get Shake for, learning it is very difficult. I've seen the demos and it isn't simple to use at all. Nevertheless it sure is amazing like the $199 FCP 4 to FCS 5.1 Upgrade.

Less than $4k if you choose a MacBook instead.

puckhead193
Jun 20, 2006, 10:55 AM
dam and with the edu discount its only $250:eek: :eek:

ChrisBrightwell
Jun 20, 2006, 11:02 AM
Less than $4k if you choose a MacBook instead.Then you lose Motion and possibly Aperture. :P

ChrisA
Jun 20, 2006, 11:11 AM
This is absolutely amazing.

Maxed out 17" MBP w/ Final Cut Studio, Logic Pro, Shake, and Aperture ... $5000 edu. That's so completely mind-boggling right now. A complete production environment for only $5000.

What's bad is I have enough in savings to cover it. Must resist.

Serious question: What could you edit with such a setup? Standard format Video yes. But could a MBP handle HD? Could it handle 4K film? Could you fit the footage for a 30 minute show on a MBP. If the notebok must be tethered to a disk arrary then why a notebook. Better to get a 20" iMac and a disk array.

ChrisBrightwell
Jun 20, 2006, 11:16 AM
If the notebok must be tethered to a disk arrary then why a notebook[?]Two reasons:
1. I can't carry an iMac to class or on vacation.
2. I do a lot of off-site work.

If I were doing pro work, that would be one thing, but I'm not. I'm a student who does a lot of freelance production and off-the-cuff stuff for friends, family, and a few local organizations. Media production (audio, video, photo) is a hobby for me, so being able to do small-scale stuff on a killer laptop for $5000 is unbelievable.

Granted, I could buy an iMac and match it with an iBook for a decent prices, but juggling two machines gets loathsome after a while.

4God
Jun 20, 2006, 11:22 AM
I can see Apple dropping Shake from $2999 to $2499, a $500 drop but from $2999 to $499 I think it's highly unlikely.

If Apple does start selling Shake for $499 I'll buy a copy :D


Ordered it yet? :D

ChrisA
Jun 20, 2006, 11:22 AM
I agree. But regardless of waht price we can get Shake for, learning it is very difficult. I've seen the demos and it isn't simple to use at all. Nevertheless it sure is amazing like the $199 FCP 4 to FCS 5.1 Upgrade.

Less than $4k if you choose a MacBook instead.

You are right. When I tell people "Gimp" is free. The #1 rreason that I hear for sticking with Photoshop is that Gimp has an interface that is not exactly like Photoshops and they'd have to re-learn something. They'd rather pay $600 if that saves then for having to learn something new. This actually makes sense too if you can bill you time at $100/hour.

So what we see here is that even with a $600 program, for many users the price is not the biggest cost of ownership. It their investment of time.

I sus[pect the same with Motion. $500 is triveal compared to the weeks or months of your time you will need to spend before you can use it. So even if Motion were free, I'd bet few people would actuialy use it. Look at the example of Gimp. It's free but it's bigest barier to use is the time it would take to learn it. for most people iPhoto works well enough

iris_failsafe
Jun 20, 2006, 11:25 AM
The only reason I can see Apple dropping the price of Shake is to compete with products like Combustion, Smoke and Flame.

Hmm Not Quite. Combustion is an inferior product. Smoke is an editor which costs $100,000 upwards depending on your configuration and Flame, which is Shake's competitor is $200,000 upwards, so the moves put Shake at the price of the baby apps while it is the giant app...

trrosen
Jun 20, 2006, 11:27 AM
Serious question: What could you edit with such a setup? Standard format Video yes. But could a MBP handle HD? Could it handle 4K film? Could you fit the footage for a 30 minute show on a MBP. If the notebok must be tethered to a disk arrary then why a notebook. Better to get a 20" iMac and a disk array.

Acually the MBP would be better For HD and other highend work for one reason...FW 800

anthony113
Jun 20, 2006, 11:27 AM
It's true that Shake isnt the most intuitive application out there. It takes a lot of practice and a very good understanding of compositing and image processing because you are dealing with individual operations rather than just plopping effects onto a layer in After Effects. I have taken a class on it in school and I can say that I now have a good understanding of the program and how to use it effectively. Aside from taking a class, a Gnomon DVD would probably be best for learning Shake in addition to the book "The Art and Science of Digital Compositing" by Ron Brinkman (one of the original authors of Shake). The book isn't entirely Shake focused but it gives you great information on compositing in general. The huge price drop is very appealing. If you are intent on taking a class on it I would highly recommend taking it at NYU's CADA with Gavin Guerra.

anthony113
Jun 20, 2006, 11:36 AM
I have worked with Combustion and Shake before and I feel that Combustion is not necessarily an inferior product to Shake, Shake definitely has an advantage over Combustion. Combustion is definitely easier when working with any kind of motion graphics or keyframe animated motions on a timeline. Shake's timeline is a little tricky to work with, though I find timeline arrangement to be easiest with After Effects. Combustion has a great particle system while Shake does not have a particle system built in. Shake excels at 2D/3D integration, HD/2K compositing, 32bit (float) processing, and working with large complicated composites. I also find the nodal workflow of Shake to be intuitive when trying to troubleshoot problems. Shake is definitely a LOT faster than Combustion. I can't wait to see how it will run on the new Mac Pro's.

simie
Jun 20, 2006, 11:43 AM
UK Apple store price is still at £1,999.00, they have not updated it yet.

Apple has made Shake 4 30-day trial version for download http://www.apple.com/shake/trial/

milo
Jun 20, 2006, 11:43 AM
It is true fellas.Apple is dropping the price to $499 and Shake 4.1 will be the LAST version of shake. They are killing the product. They will also release a non-locked version to all people on support, thus there will be a "free" version of Shake floating around the net soon.

How is it locked? Dongle?

anthony113
Jun 20, 2006, 11:50 AM
probably flexLM bound to the ethernet adapter like the other versions

milo
Jun 20, 2006, 11:57 AM
If, and it is a HUGE if, If Apple comes out with a Shake replacement it will not be here till, and this is the earliest, 2008.

Why would they kill this app without replacing it? Are they losing money on it or something? And if they have a new app in the works, wouldn't it make more sense to just make the new app an upgrade from shake? Is the shake codebase so bad that they need to scrap it and start over instead of just improving it?

And maybe most importantly, when a new app ships, will there be an upgrade path from Shake?

Where are you guys getting info on this future app? Links?

Would shake run on a MB or mini, or does it require use the GPU?

Multimedia
Jun 20, 2006, 12:02 PM
Why would they kill this app without replacing it? Are they losing money on it or something? And if they have a new app in the works, wouldn't it make more sense to just make the new app an upgrade from shake? Is the shake codebase so bad that they need to scrap it and start over instead of just improving it?

And maybe most importantly, when a new app ships, will there be an upgrade path from Shake?

Where are you guys getting info on this future app? Links?

Would shake run on a MB or mini, or does it require use the GPU?The current MB and mini integrated graphics (IG) will be replaced by a much more powerful IG chipset in the fall. I think if we can hold out for that change, all the graphic dependent pro apps will run fairly well then.

milo
Jun 20, 2006, 12:07 PM
The current MB and mini integrated graphics (IG) will be replaced by a much more powerful IG chipset in the fall. I think if we can hold out for that change, all the graphic dependent pro apps will run fairly well then.

So is that a confirmation that Shake uses the GPU? Does it run at all on a mini or MB? (motion does, doesn't it?)

shaker2006
Jun 20, 2006, 12:08 PM
probably flexLM bound to the ethernet adapter like the other versions


No, the flexlm and all locks are being removed from the new download versions of Shake. Only the boxed versions will have serial numbers.

anthony113
Jun 20, 2006, 12:16 PM
shake takes advantage of some opengl features for things like rotoshapes and some transformation stuff i think. hopefully apple's new compositing app is like autodesk's toxik, allowing for collaborative compositing. that's the big thing in the industry right now. as cpu power has increased the industry is starting to move away from the large standalone flint/flame/inferno systems and the future looks like a move toward collaborative workflow and distributed processing.

jelloshotsrule
Jun 20, 2006, 12:38 PM
It's true that Shake isnt the most intuitive application out there. It takes a lot of practice and a very good understanding of compositing and image processing because you are dealing with individual operations rather than just plopping effects onto a layer in After Effects. I have taken a class on it in school and I can say that I now have a good understanding of the program and how to use it effectively. Aside from taking a class, a Gnomon DVD would probably be best for learning Shake in addition to the book "The Art and Science of Digital Compositing" by Ron Brinkman (one of the original authors of Shake). The book isn't entirely Shake focused but it gives you great information on compositing in general. The huge price drop is very appealing. If you are intent on taking a class on it I would highly recommend taking it at NYU's CADA with Gavin Guerra.

slightly off topic, but do the gnomon dvd's have sample files at all? the biggest problem i have when trying to learn such high end apps is having the source files to play with... much better to have some good footage and such to start with than having to use stuff i've shot shoddily myself...

thanks

Pedro Estarque
Jun 20, 2006, 12:52 PM
The #1 rreason that I hear for sticking with Photoshop is that Gimp has an interface that is not exactly like Photoshops and they'd have to re-learn something.

1st reason people stick with Photoshop: kick-ass rock solid algorithms. Gimp is sloooww, to the point of being useless with anything larger than 100Mb. It doesn't hold up the same quality standards that PS does. It's not a serious alternative, unfortunately. Besides, the interface sucks. There is, however, the popular Gimpshop (http://plasticbugs.com/index.php?p=241) that makes it less prohibitive

iBot
Jun 20, 2006, 12:54 PM
So is that a confirmation that Shake uses the GPU? Does it run at all on a mini or MB? (motion does, doesn't it?)

Shake relies more on the CPU than GPU, so lower end machines can handle the app fairly well.

System Requirements:
Mac OS X
1GHz or faster PowerPC G4, PowerPC G5 or Intel Core processor
Mac OS X 10.4.6 or later
QuickTime 7.0.4 or later
512MB (or more) of RAM
1GB hard disk space for disk cache
AGP or PCI Express graphics card with at least 32MB of video memory and OpenGL hardware acceleration
Display with 1280-by-1024-pixel resolution and 24-bit color
Three-button mouse
Optional: AJA Kona or Blackmagic DeckLink card required to preview composites on a broadcast video monitor

puckhead193
Jun 20, 2006, 01:05 PM
Hmm Not Quite. Combustion is an inferior product. Smoke is an editor which costs $100,000 upwards depending on your configuration and Flame, which is Shake's competitor is $200,000 upwards, so the moves put Shake at the price of the baby apps while it is the giant app...
better start saving up my pennies :eek:

MacRumorsReader
Jun 20, 2006, 01:06 PM
I'm in. I'm in...

My precious.... My precious.

(I'm assuming you know that Shake was used in LoTR)
Whips out credit card. Stares at 250 price tag

My Precious.....

jelloshotsrule
Jun 20, 2006, 01:27 PM
Hmm Not Quite. Combustion is an inferior product. Smoke is an editor which costs $100,000 upwards depending on your configuration and Flame, which is Shake's competitor is $200,000 upwards, so the moves put Shake at the price of the baby apps while it is the giant app...

keep in mind that those other systems are including very advanced hardware to run the systems. dont' get me wrong, the fact that you can get shake, as well as a fully loaded quad powermac, displays, kona cards, etc for a good deal less than those other systems, is certainly a better deal in my opinion (i'm not 100% familiar with the differences in the smoke/flame/inferno/flint systems)... just pointing out an important note about what's included in the other systems' price tags

iBot
Jun 20, 2006, 01:30 PM
slightly off topic, but do the gnomon dvd's have sample files at all? the biggest problem i have when trying to learn such high end apps is having the source files to play with... much better to have some good footage and such to start with than having to use stuff i've shot shoddily myself...

thanks


When you buy Shake you get a printed tutorials book, and all the necessary project files are included on the installer DVD. (You also get a printed two-volume user guide.)

jelloshotsrule
Jun 20, 2006, 01:37 PM
When you buy Shake you get a printed tutorials book, and all the necessary project files are included on the installer DVD. (You also get a printed two-volume user guide.)

nice. so it's similar to final cut studio in that (and combustion, actually) in that i guess. thanks for the info

any experiences with 3rd party training/tutorial stuff?

tk421
Jun 20, 2006, 01:41 PM
Wow! :eek: :eek: I cannot believe that Apple dropped the price to $500!! When I read this rumor earlier, I easily dismissed it.

This is absolutely amazing.

Maxed out 17" MBP w/ Final Cut Studio, Logic Pro, Shake, and Aperture ... $5000 edu. That's so completely mind-boggling right now. A complete production environment for only $5000.

What's bad is I have enough in savings to cover it. Must resist.

I'm with you there... We must... resist...

xPismo
Jun 20, 2006, 02:22 PM
Apple has made Shake 4 30-day trial version for download http://www.apple.com/shake/trial/

Yep. Picked up an edu version and downloading the demo atm. Thank you Apple, Shake really blew me away at NAB and I really can't wait to spend some time getting to grips with it.

I need to dig around and see if I can find my early greenscreen work (its ugly, trust me) and see what I can get out of Shake. :cool:

One Question: 1280 x 1024 min rez? Hmmm.

redAPPLE
Jun 20, 2006, 02:29 PM
It is true fellas.Apple is dropping the price to $499 and Shake 4.1 will be the LAST version of shake. They are killing the product. They will also release a non-locked version to all people on support, thus there will be a "free" version of Shake floating around the net soon.

non-locked what? free huh? i don't get it.

geoking66
Jun 20, 2006, 02:34 PM
$2,999 to $499. Why don't they do the same with their hardware?

-Phil

redAPPLE
Jun 20, 2006, 02:50 PM
... in 2008 (if it goes according to schedule).

according to my sources, Apple would call the upcoming product Apple Vista, unless it ships on schedule.

milo
Jun 20, 2006, 03:05 PM
non-locked what? free huh? i don't get it.

He means no copy protection. And notice "free" was in quotes, meaning people would be able to get it without paying (steal it).

illegalprelude
Jun 20, 2006, 05:38 PM
..eerr....i wann buy a copy...

poppe
Jun 20, 2006, 05:55 PM
The article from Apple insider anyways mentions that Shake was used on King Kong. So does this mean that shake is compatible with Avid?

Or just the Avid Symphony?

Or is it just a exported as a video file and then imported on to Avid?

tk421
Jun 20, 2006, 08:28 PM
The article from Apple insider anyways mentions that Shake was used on King Kong. So does this mean that shake is compatible with Avid?

Or just the Avid Symphony?

Or is it just a exported as a video file and then imported on to Avid?

Sure, it's compatible. That's nothing special. After Effects can render an OMF (an Avid file). You can also get the Avid codecs for Quicktime.

Avid can also import just a regular Quicktime file, but it has to convert it. And that's not just a Symphony, it's their low-end stuff, too.

longofest
Jun 20, 2006, 09:03 PM
Sorry for the forum downtime folks. Here is what Apple has been sending out.

------------------------

New Mac OS X seats can now be purchased via the Retail box for a modest
price of $499 with unlimited render licenses. Shake 4.1 Linux licenses
remain available directly through .

Apple will no longer be selling maintenance for Shake and no further
software updates are planned as we begin work on the next generation of
Shake compositing software. While we're excited about the innovations we can
bring in the future, we understand you have a business to run today that
requires Shake. To that end, we will provide all Maintenance customers with
the following three options:

A. Customers can continue with end-user e-mail support, as well as SDK
support for the duration of their Maintenance contract.

B. Customers may elect to cancel their Maintenance and receive a pro-rated
refund for the unused portion. Existing software licenses would continue to
function according to the Software License Agreement. Maintenance customers
that wish to cancel their contract must do so by July 23, 2006.

C. Additionally, Maintenance customers may choose to license the Shake 4.1
Source Code for $50,000. The Source Code license includes a 5,000 seat
volume license of Shake 4.1. This offer is designed to help facilities with
significant Shake investments maintain a reliable and controllable visual
effects pipeline. Maintenance customers that wish to license the Shake 4.1
Source Code must do so by July 23, 2006. Apple reserves the right to refuse
any maintenance customer source Code access.

ezekielrage_99
Jun 20, 2006, 10:46 PM
Holy Crap just checked the Apple store and it is $499...... :D :D :D

I thought this was another one of those G5 PowerBook next tuesday rumors :rolleyes:

I was going to buy a copy of Motion but Shake looks like a nicer option, but if Shake is dead or dying at least I wonder what Apple has install to replace such a fantastic product :confused:

simie
Jun 20, 2006, 11:29 PM
Apple finally updated the UK store and Shake is now £329.00

i-unit123
Jun 20, 2006, 11:52 PM
sorry if this is a realy dumb question, but what is shake? is it like another graphical editing program??

THX1139
Jun 21, 2006, 02:01 AM
sorry if this is a realy dumb question, but what is shake? is it like another graphical editing program??


No, it's a professional compositing program used mostly in the film industry. If you want to know more, click on the link below.

http://www.apple.com/shake/

bigandy
Jun 21, 2006, 03:11 AM
New Mac OS X seats can now be purchased via the Retail box for a modest
price of $499 with unlimited render licenses.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

:D :D :D :D

UK Educational price: £158.63.

That's shockingly good. But it'd be even better if it was equivalent to the US Edu price: £135.48...

I'm still happy though, I'm buying a few copies for the student TV station :D

Lollypop
Jun 21, 2006, 03:21 AM
So has the new version been confirmed for 2008? (If you can confirm software release dates) And why state that they (apple) will be ending support for Shake 4, why not just release the completely new version as a drastically rewriten Shake 5 and then kill support for version 4?

ezekielrage_99
Jun 21, 2006, 04:13 AM
Ordered it yet? :D

I am answering this just as I'm typing in my credit card details on the Apple Australia Store.....

Too bad I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks for it

Lone Deranger
Jun 21, 2006, 04:19 AM
Atlast.... 3 weeks shipping time however.. What's that all about? :confused:

Apple finally updated the UK store and Shake is now £329.00

So has the new version been confirmed for 2008? (If you can confirm software release dates) And why state that they (apple) will be ending support for Shake 4, why not just release the completely new version as a drastically rewriten Shake 5 and then kill support for version 4?

Your guesses are as good as mine... There are a few interesting theories being spun over on CGTalk (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=372241)
Beaker seems to have the right idea if you ask me.

ezekielrage_99
Jun 21, 2006, 04:28 AM
Hmm Not Quite. Combustion is an inferior product. Smoke is an editor which costs $100,000 upwards depending on your configuration and Flame, which is Shake's competitor is $200,000 upwards, so the moves put Shake at the price of the baby apps while it is the giant app...

Yeah but most production companies either go the Autodesk (formally discreet) path or the Apple path. Which ever way you look at it Shake competes with Autodesk products, there's huge price differences with the products and what can be done with them. Some companies prefer the Apple approach while others go for the full discreet products either way with the right hardware/software it gets very pricey very fast.

I haven't used the Autodesk/discreet range in some time however Shake seems to compete with the Flame and Flint lines, all products have similar features and requirements. Still I am very interested to see what Apple has to replace Shake with, it should be good..... well I hope so

Monty Pavement
Jun 21, 2006, 05:37 AM
The reqs for Shake include a display res of 1280 by 1024 - whilst the non-17" MBPs only sport a 1440 by 900 display.

Does this mean Shake won't run on a 15" MBP?

Lollypop
Jun 21, 2006, 06:19 AM
Your guesses are as good as mine... There are a few interesting theories being spun over on CGTalk (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=372241)
Beaker seems to have the right idea if you ask me.

So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

longofest
Jun 21, 2006, 06:52 AM
So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

Apple seems to be addressing the issue kind of well. I mean, the most convenient solution to most people is going to be just keep on developing Shake, right? But for Apple, they have decided to move to a new app. Pro apps like this typically don't receive updates for long streches of time, and production studios don't upgrade very often either. And to help the studios out, Apple is licensing the source so that they can keep their investments running.

Macnoviz
Jun 21, 2006, 06:53 AM
I'm in. I'm in...

My precious.... My precious.

(I'm assuming you know that Shake was used in LoTR)
Whips out credit card. Stares at 250 price tag

My Precious.....

What didn't they use in LoTR?

on a side note:
I'm just curious, can you "make" special effects with shake, or is it just used to combine various raw materials and roll out the final images?

jelloshotsrule
Jun 21, 2006, 09:54 AM
What didn't they use in LoTR?

on a side note:
I'm just curious, can you "make" special effects with shake, or is it just used to combine various raw materials and roll out the final images?

i'm not sure what you mean by "make special effects"... special effects is 3D, greenscreen footage, some miniature footage, etc. shake takes all those elements (from other sources), and puts them together. it also does very important work in making it all look good (ie, it's not just plopping the layers on each other).. from removing the green screen, color correcting, wire removal, etc... only thing i'm not sure of is if shake has a particle generator...

Macnoviz
Jun 21, 2006, 11:06 AM
i'm not sure what you mean by "make special effects"... special effects is 3D, greenscreen footage, some miniature footage, etc. shake takes all those elements (from other sources), and puts them together. it also does very important work in making it all look good (ie, it's not just plopping the layers on each other).. from removing the green screen, color correcting, wire removal, etc... only thing i'm not sure of is if shake has a particle generator...

I meant adding things such as animating a cave troll, setting rocks on fire, add light to light sabers, etc.
Basically generating new footage on top of things (eg with a particle generator)

tk421
Jun 21, 2006, 11:31 AM
So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

Very few people that use FCP also use Shake. Editing and compositing are pretty independent things.

The place I used to work (a TV station) used After Effects for graphics and compositing. Occasionally people used Motion, but it was mostly After Effects. And they did all editing with FCP. And even though they owned Shake, they have only used it on one or two shows ever.

On the other hand, the place I now work uses Avid to edit. We online at a facility that only uses Avid (no FCP at all!) and they do lots of work with Shake.

jelloshotsrule
Jun 21, 2006, 11:40 AM
I meant adding things such as animating a cave troll, setting rocks on fire, add light to light sabers, etc.
Basically generating new footage on top of things (eg with a particle generator)

ahh ok, gotcha.

well the cave troll would definitely be a 3D element, rendered out in frames and brought into shake. the background could be live footage, or within the 3D scene itself. either way, the troll would most likely be separate layers from the background.

from what i can tell, shake doesn't do particle generation. so the rocks on fire would probably be in 3D or with something like motion or combustion (or higher end of course) with particle generation. there are also standalone particle generation apps.

the light on the light saber, i'd think, would be a shake thing as well. i'm actually not familiar with shake itself, just with compositing in general... but i'd guess shake could do the saber effects.

maximile
Jun 21, 2006, 02:41 PM
The reqs for Shake include a display res of 1280 by 1024 - whilst the non-17" MBPs only sport a 1440 by 900 display.

Does this mean Shake won't run on a 15" MBP?

I've just installed the trial on my 15" MBP. As far as I can tell, it works fine. No missing bits of interface or anything.

Macnoviz
Jun 21, 2006, 03:54 PM
I've just installed the trial on my 15" MBP. As far as I can tell, it works fine. No missing bits of interface or anything.

isn't that like saying you need 128 MB VRam for 1080i HD playback? I tested it on my Macbook with 1 GB Ram, but 64 MB integrated graphics, and it didn't sputter once, (not even a moo or whine, although it did do that on other occasions)

I think it's just as a precaution that there won't be any complaints that someone can't edit his HD footage as he wants it, or something.

P.S. Has a trial version always been available for Shake?

Gil Bates
Jun 21, 2006, 04:03 PM
$2,999 to $499. Why don't they do the same with their hardware?

-Phil

I started believe in the 50 cents Mac rumor :rolleyes:...

Dmitry Kichenko
Jun 21, 2006, 09:19 PM
Bloody hell, they're stopping the development... Not that they developed Shake much since v.2.5, but... This is really sad.

They buy Nothing Real, and slowly choke it to death.

A great software with infinite potential - is stopped from development. Another book on the shelf alongside Commotion.

*sigh* :(

F..cking corporations.

Dmitry Kichenko
Jun 21, 2006, 09:20 PM
P.S. Has a trial version always been available for Shake?
No, never. You had to really beg Apple and give a few sexual favours to their staff to get a demo version in the past.

And no, shake has no particles or such. It only has a parody of 3D layer functionality present in Fusion. Shake is almost a purely 2D app, and a great one too. Very very sad that they're stopping it from developing. I've been using Shake for a few years now.

Fusion looks like a promising replacement, but it's for Windows only. ugh.

Dmitry Kichenko
Jun 21, 2006, 09:29 PM
So the 2008 date is nothing but a rumor? Interesting!

My concern is that apple shouldn’t be leaving gaps in their product line by killing a product or having to large time gap between big revisions, I admit I don’t really know much about the entire production arena but I can see where shake fits in and how apple shouldn’t leave FCP and motion out in the cold by killing a product like shake, they brought Shake, sold it, they cant kill it now.

I would be happy to think that it's a rumour, but I'm afraid to admit to myself that it is not. There has been so little development of Shake in the past years that it all looks like it's going in the pooper.

So far, the only "truly" Pro apps Apple has offered were Logic and Shake, both acquired from other companies (ah, the mourning of the PC users over the Emagic's acquisition.. the tears are still wetting the carpets from time to time). FCP is arguably a prosumer application, on the edge between prosumer and pro. Shake is purely "high-end", and I can imagine it didn't get an astounding number of sales (why would it, it's not like housewives create composites while pizza is cooking in the oven), and they decided to cut down on it.

In either case, $500 is Way too low for a professional application. It's like selling Lamborghini's for the price of a Civic - no matter what they make it look like, it's still awfully suspicious.

Macnoviz
Jun 21, 2006, 11:16 PM
I would be happy to think that it's a rumour, but I'm afraid to admit to myself that it is not. There has been so little development of Shake in the past years that it all looks like it's going in the pooper.

So far, the only "truly" Pro apps Apple has offered were Logic and Shake, both acquired from other companies (ah, the mourning of the PC users over the Emagic's acquisition.. the tears are still wetting the carpets from time to time). FCP is arguably a prosumer application, on the edge between prosumer and pro. Shake is purely "high-end", and I can imagine it didn't get an astounding number of sales (why would it, it's not like housewives create composites while pizza is cooking in the oven), and they decided to cut down on it.

In either case, $500 is Way too low for a professional application. It's like selling Lamborghini's for the price of a Civic - no matter what they make it look like, it's still awfully suspicious.

You're right, 500 is too low for a pro, but too high for an amateur who just wants to add some cool effects to his movie he's uploading on Youtube (yes, that kind of amateur, not the kind that makes short movies with a 10 000 dollar camera and gets broadcasted on cultural channels, and such)

(P.S. no offense to the first kind of amateurs, I consider myself to be one of those)

Dmitry Kichenko
Jun 21, 2006, 11:50 PM
You're right, 500 is too low for a pro, but too high for an amateur who just wants to add some cool effects to his movie he's uploading on Youtube (yes, that kind of amateur, not the kind that makes short movies with a 10 000 dollar camera and gets broadcasted on cultural channels, and such)

(P.S. no offense to the first kind of amateurs, I consider myself to be one of those)

I disagree. Prior to the price drop, After Effects was the most affordable compositing application popular among 'amateurs'. It is also popular among the motion graphic designers, but that's a whole other story.

Shake, on the other hand, is a completely different sort of animal. If you have ever tried both apps, you will know. A roughly similar comparison would be 3ds max and Maya. Both are 3D packages, but for the slightly different audiences. 3ds max isn't optimized for huge productions, or a flexible workflow. It is, however, often used among, for instance, designers who don't require a huge deal of flexibility or super-optimized renders.

Put it this way. Shake is a feature film. After FX is the commercials.

Now, Shake is also not exactly, or at least used to not be, for the 'amateur guy who wants to add a few cool FX'. While I find Shake much more intuitive than After FX in terms of the GUI, it is far less user friendly, and requires background in compositing, digital image and computer hardware theory in order to fully understand what you are doing. Shake is much more like Linux, with After FX being Windows. After FX is pretty, but you can't do much with it outside of what is offered by Adobe. Shake, on the other hand, is the sort of 'open hood' software where you can change things around like you want to, and manipulate data the way you please. $500 is not a price that a home user can pay for that sort of functionality, and it's definetely not the sort of price a company, that wants to further develop such an advanced application, asks for.

P. Sheffield
Jun 22, 2006, 01:31 AM
Very few people that use FCP also use Shake. Editing and compositing are pretty independent things.

The place I used to work (a TV station) used After Effects for graphics and compositing. Occasionally people used Motion, but it was mostly After Effects. And they did all editing with FCP. And even though they owned Shake, they have only used it on one or two shows ever.

On the other hand, the place I now work uses Avid to edit. We online at a facility that only uses Avid (no FCP at all!) and they do lots of work with Shake.

Sorry, but I use FCP and Shake all the time. Especially after v5 of FCP where Apple put in a decent integration. AE? Never touched it.

Patrick

P. Sheffield
Jun 22, 2006, 01:37 AM
So far, the only "truly" Pro apps Apple has offered were Logic and Shake, both acquired from other companies (ah, the mourning of the PC users over the Emagic's acquisition.. the tears are still wetting the carpets from time to time). FCP is arguably a prosumer application, on the edge between prosumer and pro. Shake is purely "high-end", and I can imagine it didn't get an astounding number of sales (why would it, it's not like housewives create composites while pizza is cooking in the oven), and they decided to cut down on it.

I would respectfully submit that you are way wrong here. I would consider the entire Final Cut Studio "Pro" applications. I used Avid for 10 years. Dumped it in favor of FCP 3 years ago and haven't looked back. There are more and more high end edit houses in Los Angeles dropping Avid and adding Final Cut Pro and Motion, etc.

I don't know what criteria you use to judge "Pro" apps, but by every measure I can think of, Apple's offerings certainly qualify.

Patrick

Scottgfx
Jun 22, 2006, 03:11 AM
I disagree. Prior to the price drop, After Effects was the most affordable compositing application popular among 'amateurs'. It is also popular among the motion graphic designers, but that's a whole other story.

Affordable is a relative term. After Effects at one time had a price point of around $4,000. That is back in the time when I "composited" with video tape decks and a Grass Valley "production switcher". :) I'm seriously thinking about getting Shake just to see what I've been missing.

ezekielrage_99
Jun 22, 2006, 03:50 AM
You're right, 500 is too low for a pro, but too high for an amateur who just wants to add some cool effects to his movie he's uploading on Youtube (yes, that kind of amateur, not the kind that makes short movies with a 10 000 dollar camera and gets broadcasted on cultural channels, and such)

(P.S. no offense to the first kind of amateurs, I consider myself to be one of those)

I agree however this move is going to get a lot of new people interest in Apple Pro Applications. Seriously who wouldn't try to get a Pro application for less than $500? I know plenty of producers and old university friends who are rumbing their hands together in anticipation for this application at $500.

ejl10
Jun 22, 2006, 05:55 AM
So show of hands... who bought Shake last week?

Mac Kiwi
Jun 22, 2006, 06:40 AM
Cant wait to get my hands on a copy.


I still remember when the 3D pricing wars started and Maya Unlimited went from $16,000 to $7000 a seat overnight.

Dmitry Kichenko
Jun 22, 2006, 09:50 AM
I don't know what criteria you use to judge "Pro" apps, but by every measure I can think of, Apple's offerings certainly qualify.

I was about to add that all comparisons are relative, but you beat me to it :).


Seriously who wouldn't try to get a Pro application for less than $500?

The price is so low it's scary. And think of all the people who wasted over two thousand bucks for Shake 4, and now 4.1 costs a quarter of that sum.

bogen
Jun 23, 2006, 12:39 PM
Shake will continue to be a great comp package for a long time.

There are still people useing cineon for comp and matador for paint. Matador is so old it doesn't have a undo you can only load 5 frames(2k) at a time. So you can see that just because apple is stoping shake and starting "insert name here" comp package doesn't mean that shake is not useable, shake is great

I for one am very excited. I can continue to use shake for a couple more years and I hope that apple does a new shake but rewriten with more modern frameworks. Remember shake was a commandline app no gui when it was first built. Writen for Irix to run on SGI's.

Apple also has code from various other comp packages that they bought up when they bought shake. I'm thinking they where and still are having trouble putting those features into shake but now with a new start maybe they can.


my 2 cents

have a good one

Dmitry Kichenko
Jun 24, 2006, 12:40 PM
I hope they do come up with something at least as good as Shake... Because, right now Fusion is for Win only :).