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MacRumors
Jun 21, 2006, 04:37 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the news (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/06/20060619205409.shtml) that Shake 4.1's release brought a $2500 price drop to the popular compositing application, most people seem to have missed a less publicized consequence of the release.

Apple will no longer be selling maintenance for Shake and no further software updates are planned as we begin work on the next generation of Shake compositing software.

This will be the last released version of Shake. This surprising end to Shake was predicted by a Page 2 Rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/06/20060619205409.shtml) along with some new details about this next generation application.

The upcoming high-end compositing replacement software is codenamed Phenomenon and will reportedly be based on the current Motion code (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/motion/), but will build off users existing Shake experience and knowledge. The most unusual aspect of this cross-over is that the new software is not expected until 2008.

~Shard~
Jun 21, 2006, 04:41 PM
I'm surprised that Shake is leaving us (if true) but it will be exciting to see what this new "Phenonmenon" app has to offer.

Perhaps one of the reasons of a 2008 release is based on how powerful it will be and the significant system requirements which will be required - perhaps minimum requirements to run Phenonmenon smoothly will be 4 GB of RAM and an 8-core processor. :eek: ;) :cool:

Mord
Jun 21, 2006, 04:42 PM
sounds cool

i'll have to try shake some time.

arn
Jun 21, 2006, 04:42 PM
I'm surprised that Shake is leaving us (if true) but it will eb exciting to see what this new app has to offer.

That quote comes from Apple, so Shake is definitely done.

arn

longofest
Jun 21, 2006, 04:45 PM
what we don't know, is if the new "next generation" software (codenamed "Phenomenon") is going to be released as Shake as well, which could make us look dumb for saying that Shake is done even though the new product will be totally re-written. The quote does say "next generation of Shake composting software"...

EDIT: for those who are into this type of thing: digg this (http://digg.com/apple/It_s_official:_Shake_is_DONE;_Phenomenon_in_2008_)

count chocula
Jun 21, 2006, 04:47 PM
i'm kinda surprised that they arent going to have anything until 2008. that's going to be some really impressive software i bet.

arn
Jun 21, 2006, 04:47 PM
what we don't know, is if the new "next generation" software (codenamed "Phenomenon") is going to be released as Shake as well, which could make us look dumb for saying that Shake is done even though the new product will be totally re-written. The quote does say "next generation of Shake composting software"...

If so, it's a very odd way to say it. "no further software updates are planned"

arn

~Shard~
Jun 21, 2006, 04:48 PM
That quote comes from Apple, so Shake is definitely done.

arn

Ah, okay, gotcha, didn't know if that was quoted directly from Apple or not. In that case, yes, the whole timing issue does indeed make things interesting. What will fill the gap, so to speak, until this new app is out? I guess users will have to be content with using this current version of Shake for their needs for the next couple of years, potentially. Either that, or future versions of Motion will incorporate more of Shake's functionality, improve on them, and may turn into the tool of choice.

aricher
Jun 21, 2006, 04:49 PM
Could it be that "Phenomenon" has hardware specs that don't exist on the pro/consumebr level yet? That could explain the 2008 timeframe.

aafuss1
Jun 21, 2006, 04:52 PM
If so, it's a very odd way to say it. "no further software updates are planned"

arn
No more Linux version-unless Apple has been doing a secret PC motion port.

~Shard~
Jun 21, 2006, 04:52 PM
If so, it's a very odd way to say it. "no further software updates are planned"

arn

Yeah, you wouldn't think Apple would word it that way if "Phenonmenon" was simply a codename or working title for Shake 5. ;) As a result, I'm expecting some cool, new revolutionary software. It's a shame it won't be out until 2008 (if that date is in fact accurate) but at least it implies Apple is taking their time on this to do it right. Either that, or their software developers are far too busy working on another killer app that we don't even know about for the next little while. :eek: ;) Seriously, developing professional software like this is a large, complex undertaking so I think the timing is somehwat reasonable. Realistic, if nothing else. :cool:

longofest
Jun 21, 2006, 04:54 PM
If so, it's a very odd way to say it. "no further software updates are planned"

arn

Hey... it could have been written by a software engineer ;)

~Shard~
Jun 21, 2006, 04:55 PM
Could it be that "Phenomenon" has hardware specs that don't exist on the pro/consumebr level yet? That could explain the 2008 timeframe.

You should read the previous posts in a thread (especially where there are only 7 of them!) before you post so you don't risk repeating exactly what someone else has said already - let alone in the very first post of the thread. :p ;) :D

Yes, the system requirements for the current version Motion itself are quite demanding, so I could easily see an application of this nature having some heavy duty requirements as well. :cool:

GregA2
Jun 21, 2006, 05:00 PM
No more Linux version-unless Apple has been doing a secret PC motion port.

"In THAT BUILDING right there, we've been developing a version of Motion for Vista all along- just in case."

dontmatter
Jun 21, 2006, 05:01 PM
so if you don't mind my asking.... what exactly is shake? I've heard the name around, but I'm not clear on what it does, how popular it is, etc.

Seems to me that telling us there's going to be nothing more for a long time is a bad plan, isn't it? Drive people away from the platform, or wait until the release in 2008, which is a long way off.

~Shard~
Jun 21, 2006, 05:05 PM
so if you don't mind my asking.... what exactly is shake?

It's a complement to FCP and performs digital compositing. You can read all about it here (http://www.apple.com/shake/). :cool:

Seems to me that telling us there's going to be nothing more for a long time is a bad plan, isn't it? Drive people away from the platform, or wait until the release in 2008, which is a long way off.

Tough to say - at least it's UB. ;) :cool:

dwwd
Jun 21, 2006, 05:15 PM
"Phenomenon" will run only on Windows Vista, that's why it will ship on 2008. (or later...) :p :) :)

baleensavage
Jun 21, 2006, 05:15 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shake big news in the video industry? It seems to me that Apple is pulling an iPod Nano here, pulling the plug on a successful product at the height of it's popularity. One can only hope that this "phenomenon" is just that and knocks everyone's socks off.

Metatron
Jun 21, 2006, 05:21 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shake big news in the video industry? It seems to me that Apple is pulling an iPod Nano here, pulling the plug on a successful product at the height of it's popularity. One can only hope that this "phenomenon" is just that and knocks everyone's socks off.

My thoughts exactly, shake was used in Lord of the Rings and King Kong and other major titles. Seems a little strange to be killing off shake when it is used by so many studios. Apple, don't pull another aperture 1.0 on us. :(

tk421
Jun 21, 2006, 05:25 PM
It's a complement to FCP and performs digital compositing. You can read all about it here (http://www.apple.com/shake/). :cool:

I don't know if I'd call it a complement to FCP. I'd guess that 90% of the time Shake is used on a project, FCP is not used on it. Most feature films, for example, are edited with Avid. (see my response here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2539974&postcount=106))

What is intriguing is the the Final Cut Extreme rumors. If Apple does intend to compete with Avid on the very high-end level, a Shake replacement would fit in nicely. Shake is, after all, a very high-end application.

~Shard~
Jun 21, 2006, 05:27 PM
I don't know if I'd call it a complement to FCP. I'd guess that 90% of the time Shake is used on a project, FCP is not used on it. Most feature films, for example, are edited with Avid. (see my response here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2539974&postcount=106))

After re-reading what I said, I wasn't clear in what I meant - thanks for the clarification, you are correct. :)

tk421
Jun 21, 2006, 05:33 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shake big news in the video industry?

Here is a partial list of films using Shake:

The Lord of the Rings
King Kong
Harry Potter
War of the Worlds
Star Wars Episode III
Fantastic 4
Mission Impossible 3
Poseidon
The Incredibles
Hulk
Pirates of the Caribbean 2
Cinderella Man

And here's a quote from a press release (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/mar/01shake.html) from Apple in 2004:

“We’re thrilled that for seven years in a row, movies created with Shake have won the Oscar for best visual effects,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “Shake is helping Hollywood film editors communicate their vision and deliver their art at an Academy Award winning level. We couldn't be happier.”

amac4me
Jun 21, 2006, 05:38 PM
Looking forward to seeing what the Shake replacement will offer. Sounds exciting.

baleensavage
Jun 21, 2006, 05:38 PM
Here is a partial list of films using Shake:
That's what I thought, though I didn't realize it was that big. I really hope Apple knows what they're doing, because if they do kill a successful program like this and don't release an alternative until 2008, then they are leaving the door wide open for some other company to come in and stomp all over them.

esquared
Jun 21, 2006, 05:40 PM
Hope buying now will get me a future upgrade discount. Oh, and I could use it now for a feature I'm editing, learning curve be damned!. Excellent!

JackSYi
Jun 21, 2006, 05:41 PM
Maybe Apple has something up their sleeves.

sprynmr
Jun 21, 2006, 05:43 PM
What is Apple doing??

This makes no sense to me.

Keep Shake maintained and updated until your other app is ready to go. Now you are going to have people jumping back to Nuke and such (on a pc). Such that when Phenomenon comes out, people are going to be all comfy in Nuke land and not want to jump back to the mac side. (Obviously some will... but not all.)

They are cutting off their own balls here.

Makes no sense to me. I love shake!

Of course I'm sure Apple had SOMEONE think this through somewhere along the lines... so I' probably worried for nothing.

~B

hyperpasta
Jun 21, 2006, 05:45 PM
Wow... Macrumors has a source now... this is pretty significant. Finally we get some original esclusive rumors here, and this source is highly accurate.

bretm
Jun 21, 2006, 06:04 PM
That quote comes from Apple, so Shake is definitely done.

arn

But the quote doesn't say Shake is done. ???? It just says the next generation of Shake compositing software.

Just says to me that there will be a major upgrade to and I quote "shake compositing software."

I believe it's true that Shake is dead, but it certainly isn't that quote that makes it so.

bretm
Jun 21, 2006, 06:07 PM
What is Apple doing??

This makes no sense to me.

Keep Shake maintained and updated until your other app is ready to go. Now you are going to have people jumping back to Nuke and such (on a pc). Such that when Phenomenon comes out, people are going to be all comfy in Nuke land and not want to jump back to the mac side. (Obviously some will... but not all.)

They are cutting off their own balls here.

Makes no sense to me. I love shake!

Of course I'm sure Apple had SOMEONE think this through somewhere along the lines... so I' probably worried for nothing.

~B

They'll probably have some sort of cross-upgrade path, but they should mention it. Instead they've dropped the price $2500! That will get more switchers to Shake (and the Apple platform) and then the next version, reportedly shake-like and based on Motion code, will be their next choice.

bretm
Jun 21, 2006, 06:08 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shake big news in the video industry? It seems to me that Apple is pulling an iPod Nano here, pulling the plug on a successful product at the height of it's popularity. One can only hope that this "phenomenon" is just that and knocks everyone's socks off.

You're wrong. It's big new in the film industry!

ChrisA
Jun 21, 2006, 06:10 PM
Looks to me like what has happened is Apple has removed staff from the Shake project and aigned them to work on this new product. Reasignning staf is the only effective way to transfer "shake technology". Of cource de-staffing Shake means that no new releases will happen. Apple could not clone the staff so this is how they handed it.

tipdrill407
Jun 21, 2006, 06:11 PM
I hope "Phenomenon" or w/e will be bundled in FCS so we could all play around with it.

arn
Jun 21, 2006, 06:32 PM
But the quote doesn't say Shake is done. ???? It just says the next generation of Shake compositing software.

Just says to me that there will be a major upgrade to and I quote "shake compositing software."

I believe it's true that Shake is dead, but it certainly isn't that quote that makes it so.

Perhaps. I suppose if the next version is called Shake, than this is a lot about nothing. Still, it is a very strange transition.

arn

Lone Deranger
Jun 21, 2006, 06:40 PM
Also note that Apple has offered Shake customers currently on the maintenance contract the option of licensing the source code for $50000 including 5000 seats for it as well.
Something similar like this has happened in the past.
When SoftImage 3D turned v3.9 (I think it was) it's source code too was up for sale. I believe ILM (Industrial Light+Magic... George Lucas' Effects facility for those not it the know) made use of this and bought in to it. SoftImage (the developer) was at the time working on it's next gen version of the software which we know today as XSI. In light of this I can totally understand Apple's reasoning behind all this.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in the mean time with the Shake client base. SoftImage ended up loosing a huge slice of the pie to Alias Wavefront's Maya as their XSI development time dragged on longer than it should have.
Whilst there are competitors in the VFX compositing market (Nuke, Digital Fusion, Combustion, perhaps Toxik to name a few) I doubt we'll see an instant departure from Shake.

I hope "Phenomenon" or w/e will be bundled in FCS so we could all play around with it.

I hope not. Applications like Shake are pretty hard core and run hugely complex compositing trees. Trust me when I say that Apple will alienate the majority of vfx compositors if they all of the sudden were forced to work inside an editing app. to do their single shot composites. It's extra system resource baggage they'll have no use for.
I'd much rather see Apple design it for easy interaction in their Pro software pipeline. But please.. nothing embedded.

HiRez
Jun 21, 2006, 06:58 PM
I'm going to guess this next product will move most of the heavy-lifting code over to be GPU-based rather than CPU-based, and it may require some spectacular new GPU technologies than only Apple (and ATI and NVidea) currently knows about. 4x/8x/16x GPUs, new shader engines, 16 bit-per-channel optimizations, large amounts of fast VRAM (useful for storing many temporary buffers in a compositing app, and for dealing with film-resolution material), etc.

jholzner
Jun 21, 2006, 06:59 PM
That quote comes from Apple, so Shake is definitely done.

arn

Apple's quote says: "as we begin work on the next generation of Shake compositing software."

Note the use of Shake in their own quote. It may still be called Shake since they say it right in the quote.

Chimpan-A
Jun 21, 2006, 07:02 PM
Here's something that doesn't get taken into consideration enough when talking about Shake and Apple... The fact is that (whilst it is used on all the big VFX films) all the big VFX companies use the Linux version. All the Shake shots for King Kong and LOTR were done on Linux boxes. Most of these big FX houses have complex data piplines built round Linux scripts, and the OS X version of Shake just isn't an option. Also the Linux version is the one the big boys go with because it is faster.

Maybe Apple are killing off Shake because they want to recode from scratch so that the OS X version will be industry quality (like the Linux one is)?.

I always find it funny that when Apple shows shots from Kong in their Shake demos that they were not done on Macs. Not that It matters, I'm sure each individual shot could be done just as well on a Mac, but they certainly don't mind people not realising that they weren't.

BornAgainMac
Jun 21, 2006, 07:04 PM
Come on Apple. Make Shake part of iLife '07. iPhoto, iShake, iMovie, etc.

AndreMA
Jun 21, 2006, 07:07 PM
I read this as:

No Updates = Next version, you must pay full price.

Phenomena = code name for next version of Shake, which may or may not have a name change.

Rocketman
Jun 21, 2006, 07:21 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Shake big news in the video industry? It seems to me that Apple is pulling an iPod Nano here, pulling the plug on a successful product at the height of it's popularity. One can only hope that this "phenomenon" is just that and knocks everyone's socks off.

When an Apple product failes or ceases to meet Job's "insanely great" expectations, he kills it instead of letting it simply run its course. In that one aspect, Jobs is a marketing nightmare.

Rocketman

Rocketman
Jun 21, 2006, 07:23 PM
Looks to me like what has happened is Apple has removed staff from the Shake project and aigned them to work on this new product. Reasignning staf is the only effective way to transfer "shake technology". Of cource de-staffing Shake means that no new releases will happen. Apple could not clone the staff so this is how they handed it.


There should be ONE guy at Apple dedicated to offering a free OS 9.2.8 upgrade and incremental upgrades to dead software. The code exists and sufficient feedback has been received for some really easy and helpful upgrades to "old" stuff.

Mac Draw II on OS 10.4? :)

Rocketman

dpaanlka
Jun 21, 2006, 07:39 PM
no further software updates are planned as we begin work on the next generation of Shake compositing software.

What am I missing here? It just sounds like this is the end of version 4. "Next generation of Shake" means there is going to be another Shake in the future...

Highland
Jun 21, 2006, 07:47 PM
i'm kinda surprised that they arent going to have anything until 2008. that's going to be some really impressive software i bet.
Let's hope so!

Shake really needs to take on Inferno, which is a truly amazing piece of kit.

I read this as:

No Updates = Next version, you must pay full price.

Phenomena = code name for next version of Shake, which may or may not have a name change.
Same here.

I don't think there's any need for a name change, I just see this as Apple wanting to move the Shake userbase to a different licensing model (ie a more standard software one).

Also, I bet it won't be 2008 ;)

Edit : OH! Maybe this was the project that the "game" developers were hired for??? Hmmm. Makes sense!

081440
Jun 21, 2006, 08:56 PM
"Phenomenon" will run only on Windows Vista, that's why it will ship on 2008. (or later...) :p :) :)


your asking for trouble aren't you!?!? :D

Rocketman
Jun 21, 2006, 09:00 PM
I don't think there's any need for a name change, I just see this as Apple wanting to move the Shake userbase to a different licensing model (ie a more standard software one).

Also, I bet it won't be 2008!


It seems the uber users used the "tree" feature in Shake, so at minimum Apple should retain that capability in some form in the next Shake.

With an app of this magnitude even version control becomes quite helpful and as for the linux features, let's not forget BSD unix which OSX is, has all those features. People simply do not use them simply because there is a GUI to "confuse them".

I have claimed for several years Apple needs "supplemental" GUI's which access the *.* and rare aspects of linux/BSD for "the rest of us".

Unix without unix. BBedit does this with files.

That would be insanely great for production environments and enterprises.

A specialized GUI for
® multiple file import/mod
® network admin
® oldfile modernization
® oldOS emulation

Rocketman

Highland
Jun 21, 2006, 10:13 PM
It seems the uber users used the "tree" feature in Shake, so at minimum Apple should retain that capability in some form in the next Shake.
As does Inferno, Flame and Combustion (to name a few). I think it's the standard approach for high end compositing, and I'd expect to see it in the next Shake.

Platform
Jun 21, 2006, 10:40 PM
Interesting, wonder what this new app will do, Motion base and 2 years, should be good :cool:

riversky
Jun 21, 2006, 10:44 PM
The date say one thing to me. INTEL ONLY!!! It will require processors and expecially graphics engines that are top notch. It may require the move to Intel.

At some point they will drop all PowerPC support but probably not until 2010. I bet there might even be some really cool Intel only features in 10.5 (like we have Front Row now) that will prod a move for the existing base.

bonehead
Jun 21, 2006, 10:46 PM
Someone already mentioned that the Linux version of Shake was used on most of these films but also it needs to be noted that Shake wasn't the only tool used. People still have Infernos that they are paying off or have paid off and they are using those also. I work in film/video post-production and know a number of digital artists/VFX supervisors and most of them aren't all that enamored of Shake. It gets used but it's not their go to tool. Other people may have different experiences. Your mileage may vary.


Here is a partial list of films using Shake:

The Lord of the Rings
King Kong
Harry Potter
War of the Worlds
Star Wars Episode III
Fantastic 4
Mission Impossible 3
Poseidon
The Incredibles
Hulk
Pirates of the Caribbean 2
Cinderella Man

And here's a quote from a press release (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/mar/01shake.html) from Apple in 2004:

“We’re thrilled that for seven years in a row, movies created with Shake have won the Oscar for best visual effects,” said Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. “Shake is helping Hollywood film editors communicate their vision and deliver their art at an Academy Award winning level. We couldn't be happier.”

xPismo
Jun 21, 2006, 10:46 PM
...I don't think there's any need for a name change, I just see this as Apple wanting to move the Shake userbase to a different licensing model (ie a more standard software one).

Also, I bet it won't be 2008 ;)

Edit : OH! Maybe this was the project that the "game" developers were hired for??? Hmmm. Makes sense!

Why a game dev? Maybe I'm just missing the obvious, but Huh?

I'm really excited for the evolution of Motion/Shake. They have the potential to become a really interesting piece of software. A more consumer useable one I think.

With a high end version possible.

Regardless, I'm so down for learning shake/motion now - since its the core of whatever is to come - and get ready to Play hard ball in 2008.

Highland
Jun 21, 2006, 11:03 PM
I work in film/video post-production and know a number of digital artists/VFX supervisors and most of them aren't all that enamored of Shake. It gets used but it's not their go to tool. Other people may have different experiences. Your mileage may vary.
My experience has been the same. Inferno is king for compositing. After seeing it in action there's no wonder... it's amazing. Shake has the groundwork though. Some good R&D and it'll be competitive.

Why a game dev? Maybe I'm just missing the obvious, but Huh?
For loads of high end realtime OpenGL programing, including good use of per-pixel shaders etc. Who's going to be the best for this? Someone who's been working on one of the new game engines!

MacAddict1978
Jun 21, 2006, 11:08 PM
Hmmm. I'm surprised everyone so quickly bought into believing a 2008 release date. That is only speculation and not part of their response to the price drop.

And I never beleive Apple when they do say they are going to release something.

This has the potential to be a brilliant marketing move on their part. Lure new customers with a bargain basement price, potentially move hardware, and then hopefully have a larger base of customers to sell a killer new version too.

I think a year tops.

Highland
Jun 21, 2006, 11:12 PM
Hmmm. I'm surprised everyone so quickly bought into believing a 2008 release date.

...

I think a year tops.

Also, I bet it won't be 2008 ;)

I agree. :)

apachie2k
Jun 21, 2006, 11:18 PM
it's really jobs scaring the movie business, and threatining them that they better sell thier movies for 9.99 or else......(shake will be dead forever):D

Dahl
Jun 21, 2006, 11:33 PM
Hope buying now will get me a future upgrade discount. Oh, and I could use it now for a feature I'm editing, learning curve be damned!. Excellent!
Good thinking.

I have been looking at Shake once and awhile and if I were to get Shake now, it might prepare me well for the new program.

Flynnstone
Jun 22, 2006, 12:01 AM
2008

Smells like a Microsoft Vista timing thing.
But I am ignorant of what the software does.

ricksbrain
Jun 22, 2006, 12:36 AM
I don't think I've seen anyone say this...

The huge price drop ensures that Shake is the lead program for potential buyers. In addition, the prospect of a paradigm shift in usefulness for an already strong program fosters loyalty and a willingness to wait. That is, unless a program shows up out of nowhere that can undercut a professional tool about the cost of an iPod.

There is a reason Apple bought all that property in Cupertino. They expect BIG growth.

I, for one, CANNOT wait for the next few years!

ricksbrain
Jun 22, 2006, 12:43 AM
I feel compelled to add--

I'd bet this price strategy will extend itself to the Mac Pros, too. These are going to be screaming machines. Competitors have been making a killing on their high end machines-- that's what's allowed them to sell cheap boxes to the masses. In comparison, Apple has remained VERY profitable without undercutting itself price-wise. Now, Apple will probably release high end machiens in the same general price range as before, but force its competitiors to further undercut their own profits.

I hope I'm right. War is a brewin' in the computer industry.

Lollypop
Jun 22, 2006, 01:24 AM
Apple can do what they want with the name, just as long as they have a competitor, shake is a good fit for what apple is trying to do with the mac os in the way its embracing video and audio ect. Glad to see that the concerns I had in the Shake price drop forum is addresses.

Scottgfx
Jun 22, 2006, 01:35 AM
I think a year tops.

People in the Autodesk booth at NAB`06 were saying that Final Cut Extreme was real. I don't understand though... Apple and Autodesk are working together on some technology, but Apple seems to be moving toward putting out products that directly compete with Autodesk-Discreet offerings. Perhaps they are working together to kill Avid? I personally see Avid making a lot of missteps. Buying Pinnacle is one of them. Perhaps they see a weakness? :)

ezekielrage_99
Jun 22, 2006, 03:42 AM
Sounds like Apple is shaking things up ;)

Can't wait to 2008 to see the new application :D

lord_flash
Jun 22, 2006, 03:43 AM
Looks to me like what has happened is Apple has removed staff from the Shake project and aigned them to work on this new product.

Sounds more like they walked up to the door with "Shake Team" written on it, crossed that out and wrote on "Phenomenon team".

Probably with a little smiley face in one of the "o"s.

bigandy
Jun 22, 2006, 05:51 AM
I'd be amused if it came out next week. Just to really put the wind up all the rumour sites :D

miketcool
Jun 22, 2006, 08:14 AM
There is a reason Apple bought all that property in Cupertino. They expect BIG growth.

Apple has already experienced big growth, which is why they are spread all over the city. Jobs said in a statement that their new campus accross from HP's will house 3,000-3,500 employees. He also said that it won't be finished for another 4 years and that he expects more growth. They bought the property because they have grown. I imagine they have another hat trick in a city already crowded with offices for space in the future.

milo
Jun 22, 2006, 09:19 AM
Wow... Macrumors has a source now... this is pretty significant. Finally we get some original esclusive rumors here, and this source is highly accurate.

I assume you're being sarcastic. This same email has been quoted on pretty much every other mac site.

WilsonPicket
Jun 22, 2006, 09:51 AM
I just bought Shake. Didn't read the fine print. Didn't know there *was* fine print ;-) Got excited and just started throwing money.

In any case, I'm still pretty pleased. I've been looking through the window at that little doggy for a few years now. It's the same app as it was when it cost thousands of pounds, and it will last a few years. There are signs that learning Shake (in addition to having learnt Motion) will set me up well for the future. My interpretation: Phenomenon = radically improved Shake with Motion folded in. I think Phenomenon signals the end of Motion more than the end of Shake.

I only hope that Apple will treat Phenomenon like Final Cut and price it somewhat democratically. Aside from the top quality of the app, it's really the price of Final Cut that stood the NLE market on it's head. I'm cautiously confident that Phenomenon will be treated similarly. Why wouldn't Apple want Shake on every desktop that uses Final Cut? There are a lot of us out there - from organizations like the BBC to people like me.

Macnoviz
Jun 22, 2006, 10:14 AM
about the naming: we are forgetting one important thing here: they now want Mac in their product names !!

Macshake? Maconemon? ShakeMac? PhenomeMac?





This doesn't the end of Shake, it doesn't mean the end of motion, it means new powerbooks on thuesday. Simple as that

tk421
Jun 22, 2006, 10:55 AM
I just bought Shake. Didn't read the fine print. Didn't know there *was* fine print ;-) Got excited and just started throwing money.

What fine print? Would you care to elaborate?

killmoms
Jun 22, 2006, 12:18 PM
Argh, and here I was thinking that learning Shake was going to be a good investment for getting a job in the compositing field—maybe not so much, eh? Should I be sitting down with Combustion to get used to Autodesk's (neé Discreet's) interfaces instead? Or should I just internalize the basics of node-based compositing as a process and realize that in the end the software is just button-pushing?

Argh.

Rustus Maximus
Jun 22, 2006, 02:10 PM
Argh, and here I was thinking that learning Shake was going to be a good investment for getting a job in the compositing field—maybe not so much, eh? Should I be sitting down with Combustion to get used to Autodesk's (neé Discreet's) interfaces instead? Or should I just internalize the basics of node-based compositing as a process and realize that in the end the software is just button-pushing?

Argh.

You'll be fine by mastering Shake. All of this software is akin to driving a car. There are different models. Some cars smell funny on the inside and the upholstery is tearing from the roof but, mechanically, they do the same thing, have the same parts, same functions. So in short, learn to drive one car and you can drive them all.

bogen
Jun 22, 2006, 06:37 PM
Let's hope so!

Shake really needs to take on Inferno, which is a truly amazing piece of kit.


Same here.

I don't think there's any need for a name change, I just see this as Apple wanting to move the Shake userbase to a different licensing model (ie a more standard software one).

Also, I bet it won't be 2008 ;)

Edit : OH! Maybe this was the project that the "game" developers were hired for??? Hmmm. Makes sense!

Nothing will ever take on the inferno at least not for awhile.

clients still love to say they are going to a inferno session, or my movie/commercial spot was built in an inferno, $1000 an hour makes them feel highend
my 2 cents

hyperpasta
Jun 22, 2006, 07:49 PM
I assume you're being sarcastic. This same email has been quoted on pretty much every other mac site.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1836

According to a rumor first published on MacRumors this week, Shake's successor bears the codename "Phenomenon."

OWNED! haha just kidding. But still, don't freak out next time.

KeeFX
Jun 22, 2006, 08:53 PM
Shake's price drop could also be a sneaky strike on Autodesk's Combustion.

The difference between Shake and Inferno on a mass compositing scale is that Inferno is typically a suite software, ie (for the non compositors reading this forum) Inferno usually is setup as 1 box (older versions usually were Silicon Graphics boxes, newer are high end Discreet built Linux based), in it's own room, complimented with soft mood lighting and couches for the clients to relax on as the compositor goes through the rounds. Whilst Shake set ups are masses of computers setup together 'farm' style.

With Shake now costing less than Combustion, that means that budget restrictions for staff, and new Shake units are now conciderably less, meaning more Shake users per film project, more productability in a lesser time frame.

Also, now smaller post houses will be able to afford Shake. Combustion is a more popular compositing software because it's cheap. The tables have been turned! Let's hope whatever Apple unleashes will be the next big thing, and not a hideously expensive pain.

Eniregnat
Jun 25, 2006, 12:54 PM
I can't afford a new licence for PhotoShop, but I can afford Shake.
It's overkill I can live with. Noodles and nodes here I come.

I don't plan to become a compositing monkey (I am already an audio monkey), but perhaps I will finish a script, shoot my own film, edit it in FCP and use Shake for the finer color grading, compositing and effects...

milo
Jun 26, 2006, 11:07 AM
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1836

OWNED! haha just kidding. But still, don't freak out next time.

You know, I can't make any sense out of your post at all. For your sake, I hope you were being sarcastic on that post...

bogen
Jun 28, 2006, 11:46 AM
Most of the Compositing that shake does is With Film scans(2k-4k). At least that I do. The FCP intergration is for editors that have composites that require more tools than FCP has to offer. You can also bring in PSD's with the layers intact with some success. Just remember that shake is in no way iMovie with compositing tools. Compositing is not a easy thing to learn. But don't get me wrong you can learn alot about images, and how to put them together. Learning new ways to intergrate images(adds, subtracts, multiply, outside, inside). All things that you can apply to photography and other graphics work. Very good skills to have.

reelrootsryan
Jul 5, 2007, 04:12 PM
"Phenomenon" will run only on Windows Vista, that's why it will ship on 2008. (or later...) :p :) :)

haha. that would be awesome. but seriously; friggin' Leopard got pushed back so far b/c of the iPhone, so Phenomenon probably won't make it out until late 2008... if that

twoodcc
Jul 5, 2007, 04:16 PM
i'm kinda surprised. but looking forward to this new application

Macnoviz
Jul 6, 2007, 01:04 AM
haha. that would be awesome. but seriously; friggin' Leopard got pushed back so far b/c of the iPhone, so Phenomenon probably won't make it out until late 2008... if that

I don't think that the people developing leopard are the same as the ones developing Phenomenon. Seems like a whole other branch, to me