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MacRumors
Jun 25, 2006, 09:41 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A recent Gartner report (http://www.gartner.com/press_releases/asset_154010_11.html) points out that Apple's buying power may be able to press NAND flash prices low enough for greatly increased capacity Nano's when their rumored refresh (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060425081810.shtml) appears in the fall.

Gartner forecasts that a 16Gb (2GB) device will be available in the third quarter for about $30, down from its current price of about $35. Due to Apple's procurement power and investment, it is conceivable that it could get pricing for a device at $25 or even $20. This pricing would enable capacities of 12GB, leaving enough room for the remaining component and manufacturing costs as well as Apple's margin, while still reaching a $250 price point.

A recent rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/06/20060605143827.shtml) stated that Apple has been stocking up on NAND flash memory, presumably for iPods. The current highest-capacity iPod Nano is 4 GB.

celebrian23
Jun 25, 2006, 09:44 PM
I would love that. I'd probably sell my 30GB as the space is way too big for my needs but the 4GB nano is too small. I want a midsize goshdarnit.

DevilsRejection
Jun 25, 2006, 09:45 PM
New Nanos will be 6GB for 199 and 8GB for 249

RichP
Jun 25, 2006, 09:46 PM
New Nanos will be 6GB for 199 and 8GB for 249

12 sounds nice, but what you just said sounds much more realistic.

DevilsRejection
Jun 25, 2006, 09:53 PM
12 sounds nice, but what you just said sounds much more realistic.

i'd be impressed if we say 10gb nano's but i'm not holding my breathe for those

DTphonehome
Jun 25, 2006, 09:53 PM
Great, how can I possibly be content with a 2 GB when I get my MB?

Preacher85
Jun 25, 2006, 09:54 PM
8 GB or at the max 10 GB sounds realistic, but 12 would be perfect, as my iTunes Library currently sits at 12.87 GB, and I could easily do without some of the playlists on the iPod. I'm looking to buy a nano when they are refreshed to run with, as my 4th Gen 20 GB color is just too darn bulky. Here's to hoping for 12!:cool:

Harpo
Jun 25, 2006, 09:54 PM
When, oh when, will hard drives be replaced with flash memory?


Probably never. They'll come out with something else by the time flash gets cheap enough.

DevilsRejection
Jun 25, 2006, 09:59 PM
When, oh when, will hard drives be replaced with flash memory?


Probably never. They'll come out with something else by the time flash gets cheap enough.

i say a decade

Leondunkleyc
Jun 25, 2006, 09:59 PM
.

MattyMac
Jun 25, 2006, 10:04 PM
i say a decade
Look how far they have come in just half a decade...you cant be serious:D

Fiveos22
Jun 25, 2006, 10:06 PM
I would love that. I'd probably sell my 30GB as the space is way too big for my needs but the 4GB nano is too small. I want a midsize goshdarnit.

I'm waiting (but probably not going to buy) for the >80 gig iPod. Right now, my MacBook is just a bit too snug to hold my music collection and a bigger iPod would really hit the spot (though that spot does not currently include my pocket book).

Just perfect, summer's only just started and now a reason for me to wish for its end...

ha! tell me that's not true.

Staffroomer
Jun 25, 2006, 10:13 PM
And they'll be even cheaper if they're made with slave labor!!! :D

*just kidding*

cbigfoot1987
Jun 25, 2006, 10:16 PM
When, oh when, will hard drives be replaced with flash memory?


Probably never. They'll come out with something else by the time flash gets cheap enough.

Wit apple i asy next year it will be a $200 option for a 120GB NAND (Remember i think access speeds are the sane as a 15,000RPM with NAND) from the 160GB 5400RPM HD or $100 from the 7200RPM 160GB. ITs currently about $3000 for a SATA Notebook drive at 60GB using NAND MEMORY

Fiveos22
Jun 25, 2006, 10:26 PM
Wit apple i asy next year it will be a $200 option for a 120GB NAND (Remember i think access speeds are the sane as a 15,000RPM with NAND) from the 160GB 5400RPM HD or $100 from the 7200RPM 160GB. ITs currently about $3000 for a SATA Notebook drive at 60GB using NAND MEMORY

Boy, is your keyboard sticky (http://us.geocities.com/oosterwal/works/sticky.html)?

stoid
Jun 25, 2006, 10:27 PM
Wit apple i asy next year it will be a $200 option for a 120GB NAND (Remember i think access speeds are the sane as a 15,000RPM with NAND) from the 160GB 5400RPM HD or $100 from the 7200RPM 160GB. ITs currently about $3000 for a SATA Notebook drive at 60GB using NAND MEMORY

Optimistically, if Apple can secure these chips for $20 a pop 120GB is still going to cost them $1200. If Apple has to pay $25 it's $1500, so I don't think that a 120GB option for $200 is likely. If NAND memory follows Moore's Theorem and doubles every 12-18 months, you're looking at 4-6 years before that price is possible.

rockthecasbah
Jun 25, 2006, 10:31 PM
Great, how can I possibly be content with a 2 GB when I get my MB?
well although it isn't certain, you can sell it unopened to the unknowing person that doesn't follow iPod rumors while the getttin's good. It wouldnt be until after the summer sale is over but i'd do that if i were you.

4God
Jun 25, 2006, 10:41 PM
...<snip>.......I want a midsize goshdarnit.

Me too. The 12 giger would be perfect for me.

AP_piano295
Jun 25, 2006, 10:45 PM
It would be cool if the memory stock up was for the new "true video ipod" What if it had flash and a HD so you could stick some of your stuff on the flash so you could leave the HD off and save power.

Wont happen but it would be cool

w_parietti22
Jun 25, 2006, 10:54 PM
Thats good... it will make iPods more closely spec'd.

~Shard~
Jun 25, 2006, 11:09 PM
12 GB would be nice, but I don't know if Apple would make such a significant jump so quickly, even if they had the means. The technology might be there, but there's more to running a successful business than simple technology decisions. Apple might choose to go with 6 GB or 8 GB nanos for starters, as this might make better sense from a business perspective. It will of course depend on what competition is doing as well, profit margins, many factors at play here...

Regardless, larger capacity nanos and full-screen video iPods this fall would make a deadly combination for both consumers and Apple themselves heading into the busy Christmas shopping season! :cool:

Core Trio
Jun 25, 2006, 11:22 PM
if a 12 GB nano came out this fall at the price points we have now, Id definitely be retiring my 40GB 4th Generation ipod. Seeing as I only have 8.68 GB of music on it, it would be a good replacement.

zap2
Jun 25, 2006, 11:24 PM
12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs

tf843364
Jun 25, 2006, 11:26 PM
When, oh when, will hard drives be replaced with flash memory?


Probably never. They'll come out with something else by the time flash gets cheap enough.

Hard Drives made completely from NAND are availiable now, as made by samsung.
They are wicked expensive.
However, the pricing drops on NAND in the last few years arnt going to be accurate predictors as manufacturers are just beginning to produce nand at the top priority. do some research.
a gig right now is about 30 bucks, by the end of 2008 it is expected to be about 9. with apple behind that we could see nand as low as 5 dollars by holday season 2008.
wowsers.

Leondunkleyc
Jun 25, 2006, 11:29 PM
.

briansolomon
Jun 25, 2006, 11:30 PM
The Nano is in need of a refresh whether or not a 12 GB version comes to fruition. It seems to me the Nano is getting a lot of pressure from the SanDisk Sansa e200 series. Pricing for the Sansa beats the Nano at all capacity points and often is available with rebates to obtain even lower price points. Additionally, there is a larger 6GB version available.

Leondunkleyc
Jun 25, 2006, 11:36 PM
.

briansolomon
Jun 25, 2006, 11:40 PM
But the nano has the advantage because it has the little 'iPod" sign on the back. A lot of people nowadays buy based on brand. Cost and quality come second.

Good point.

wmmk
Jun 26, 2006, 12:05 AM
Well, I'd love to see this happen. Right now, I own a 30 gig video, and am just about filling all of it. With all of my podcasts and growing CD collection (mostly higher quality AAC, like 190 kbps or so), the free space in my iPod gets smaller every day. If the nano gets bigger, the "true" video iPod will need a bigger HDD and extra cool features, such as downloadable games and applications. Maybe even PDA-like functionality to compete with the origami. Also, this would leave the 2-6 GB range open to iPhone, which would be really cool. Basically I wouldn't get a 12 GB nano, but I thnk it'd help the apple product line.

John Jacob
Jun 26, 2006, 12:06 AM
When, oh when, will hard drives be replaced with flash memory?
Probably never. They'll come out with something else by the time flash gets cheap enough.

How fast are NAND flash drives (read and write speeds, access times) compared to hard drives?

Remember i think access speeds are the sane as a 15,000RPM with NAND

Is this really true? If it was, I wouldn't mind paying even a thousand dollars extra for a NAND flash drive for my next laptop (Macbook or Pro).

heffledave
Jun 26, 2006, 12:07 AM
8 GB or at the max 10 GB sounds realistic, but 12 would be perfect, as my iTunes Library currently sits at 12.87 GB, and I could easily do without some of the playlists on the iPod. I'm looking to buy a nano when they are refreshed to run with, as my 4th Gen 20 GB color is just too darn bulky. Here's to hoping for 12!:cool:

Unfortunately, for those of us whose libraries soar way past 12 GB, that amount of storage wouldn't be nearly enough. Though it's no where in the near future, a full-size iPod running on flash memory would be more appealing--smaller, lighter, no moving parts, and shorter access times? All while being able to hold as much information as today's current 5G iPods? Now that would be impressive.

...then again, so would a 12 GB iPod. :p What's next? Holographic storage? Mmmmmmm...

sam10685
Jun 26, 2006, 12:41 AM
i say a decade

i don't think so... technolohy and methods of producing technology r advancing at a very rapid rate.

thejadedmonkey
Jun 26, 2006, 12:49 AM
Those first generation iPods had a 10 hour battery life...Imagine what they'd be like now if they used NAND...

68134
Jun 26, 2006, 12:56 AM
_

BlizzardBomb
Jun 26, 2006, 12:56 AM
This is the way I see it...

iPod Shuffle (2GB w/ 24 hour battery + available in black) - $79
iPod Nano (2GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $139
iPod Nano (4GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $179
iPod Nano (8GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $229
Widescreen iPod (40GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $299
Widescreen iPod (80GB w/ 24 hour battery) - $399

And widescreen doesn't have to be touchscreen, just that you hold the iPod horizontally and the click wheel is turned 90 degrees to match that.

68134
Jun 26, 2006, 01:04 AM
_

bloodycape
Jun 26, 2006, 01:06 AM
I don't think the ipod would be touch screen since that would make the ipod a little pricey. And a 12gig flash ipod I think it is a little early seeing as the Sandisk is only at 6gig currently. If anything the ipod will be 8gigs 10 at max and don't be surprised if it cost the same the 30gig ipod.

praetorian909
Jun 26, 2006, 01:10 AM
I'm a little skeptical about this report. Their statement of 12 GB looks to be more based on a cost analysis--i.e., because of the price cut, Apple can make nanos with more included memory chips at the same price point. The only problem with that is you can't simply put in more memory chips because physically there's not enough space for it inside the nano (without increasing the nano's dimensions). I haven't checked Samsung's IC news but I wouldn't expect them to triple the amount of memory in the same-sized chips, so my bet is that the refresh will be max 8 GB. I dunno, that's what seems logical to me...

bloodycape
Jun 26, 2006, 01:12 AM
How can people think of this as a negative?

robPOD
Jun 26, 2006, 01:48 AM
I would buy a 12gb I really need to replace my mini!!! btw whens your fall start ( i dont live in america)

praetorian909
Jun 26, 2006, 02:02 AM
I would buy a 12gb I really need to replace my mini!!! btw whens your fall start ( i dont live in america)

Fall usually means end of August/September (officially Sept. 22 or 23). That's when it's back to school time and getting closer to Christmas, so that'd be a good time to release an iPod :)

iAlan
Jun 26, 2006, 02:16 AM
SIZE DOES MATTER

And the current campaign with MacBooks and Nanos will help reduce stock of the current 'Nanos as well...

bloodycape
Jun 26, 2006, 02:16 AM
I would buy a 12gb I really need to replace my mini!!! btw whens your fall start ( i dont live in america)
Same time your spring starts.

pink-pony115
Jun 26, 2006, 02:23 AM
Way too much room for me.

Mtn Tamale
Jun 26, 2006, 02:25 AM
First of all, no way, as some people have posited, is Apple going to have an 8 and a 10 gb Nano or a 10 and a 12. Who would their target audience be? Both products would target the same people. It would be a waste of energy.

However, I think the shuffle will stay at 1gb and probably drop to $79. It is not currently very profitable, but as costs drop it will be more profitable. And Apple has little incentive to drop its price....it covers the under $100 iPod buyer using iTunes who wants to simple take a few tunes along.

So, Here's how I'd revise your guess:

Shuffle 1 gb - $79
Nano 4 gb - $199
Nano 8 gb - $249

Apple has well established price tiers, they won't erode them, they just have to find the right value to sell for the price. Also Apple likes to double or better your memory in iPods every $50 or so. My forecast figures that in too.


This is the way I see it...

iPod Shuffle (2GB w/ 24 hour battery + available in black) - $79
iPod Nano (2GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $139
iPod Nano (4GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $179
iPod Nano (8GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $229
Widescreen iPod (40GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $299
Widescreen iPod (80GB w/ 24 hour battery) - $399

And widescreen doesn't have to be touchscreen, just that you hold the iPod horizontally and the click wheel is turned 90 degrees to match that.

mowry
Jun 26, 2006, 02:59 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A recent Gartner report (http://www.gartner.com/press_releases/asset_154010_11.html) points out that Apple's buying power may be able to press NAND flash prices low enough for greatly increased capacity Nano's when their rumored refresh (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/04/20060425081810.shtml) appears in the fall...

The plural of Nano is Nanos. Apostrophes are for possesives and contractions, not plurals.

Macnoviz
Jun 26, 2006, 03:04 AM
12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs

Tough screens would be nice, I hate scratches :D

The plural of Nano is Nanos. Apostrophes are for possesives and contractions, not plurals.


Correct, but isn't nano a latin prefix? hence, should it not be Nanes (as in dux, duces)

EDIT:
This is the way I see it...

iPod Shuffle (2GB w/ 24 hour battery + available in black) - $79
iPod Nano (2GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $139
iPod Nano (4GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $179
iPod Nano (8GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $229
Widescreen iPod (40GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $299
Widescreen iPod (80GB w/ 24 hour battery) - $399

And widescreen doesn't have to be touchscreen, just that you hold the iPod horizontally and the click wheel is turned 90 degrees to match that.

24 hour battery with a 4 inch screen? Maybe in a few years or with the screen in "black and white mode"

bigandy
Jun 26, 2006, 03:12 AM
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
Widescreen iPod (40GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $299
Widescreen iPod (80GB w/ 24 hour battery) - $399

24hr battery? probably not. 40Gb proper video ipod? doubt it... :rolleyes:

Dunepilot
Jun 26, 2006, 04:07 AM
Out of interest (having only ever owned hard drive-based iPods), does anyone know the number of write-cycles for flash-based iPods?

If the number of read/writes possible for flash-based products would be less than currently possible with a hard disk, I can imagine this being the significant factor that holds back a transition from hard disks to flash products (both in entertainment devices like the iPod, and in Apple's laptops), possibly moreso than price, even.

Stridder44
Jun 26, 2006, 04:11 AM
Where's my 80 and 100 GB iPods for those of us who roll big?

Macnoviz
Jun 26, 2006, 04:24 AM
Out of interest (having only ever owned hard drive-based iPods), does anyone know the number of write-cycles for flash-based iPods?

If the number of read/writes possible for flash-based products would be less than currently possible with a hard disk, I can imagine this being the significant factor that holds back a transition from hard disks to flash products (both in entertainment devices like the iPod, and in Apple's laptops), possibly moreso than price, even.

I believe the number of write cycles of the NAND memory discussed for the Ultra-Portable was sufficient to outlast hard-drives. Although this also depends on the manner of writing: if you use the flash drives as sole memory for a computer, it constantly writes and overwrites, so this would not be good for that.
But I guess that for an iPod, that you sync maybe a few times per day at most, the write cycles will be the least of your problems, unless you plan to use it for decades. Plus, You can't use your iPod as only storage for something. Not because of technology, but because it's more fragile and steal-prone. (just look at the my-iPod-was-stolen threads)

javierbds
Jun 26, 2006, 04:39 AM
Bleh ! More flash, less flash ...

Where is the VPod? :rolleyes:

Not because of technology, but because it's more fragile and steal-prone. (just look at the my-iPod-was-stolen threads)

I may hold a record there mine was stolen before ever reaching my hands (in transport) ... Got my money back

If there is not a xPod PDA with touchscreen by Xmas I'm going the Nokia 770 route ... :mad:

Macnoviz
Jun 26, 2006, 04:41 AM
Bleh ! More flash, less flash ...

Where is the VPod? :rolleyes:



I may hold a record there mine was stolen before ever reaching my hands (in transport) ... Got my money back

If there is not a xPod PDA with touchscreen by Xmas I'm going the Nokia 770 route ... :mad:

And vPod isn't off topic?

Dunepilot
Jun 26, 2006, 05:50 AM
I believe the number of write cycles of the NAND memory discussed for the Ultra-Portable was sufficient to outlast hard-drives. Although this also depends on the manner of writing: if you use the flash drives as sole memory for a computer, it constantly writes and overwrites, so this would not be good for that.
But I guess that for an iPod, that you sync maybe a few times per day at most, the write cycles will be the least of your problems, unless you plan to use it for decades. Plus, You can't use your iPod as only storage for something. Not because of technology, but because it's more fragile and steal-prone. (just look at the my-iPod-was-stolen threads)

Thanks. Anybody with info on the actual number of writes possible to a current Nano?

joecool85
Jun 26, 2006, 06:03 AM
I would buy a 6 or 8gb nano for the under $200 range.

Tom B.
Jun 26, 2006, 06:08 AM
I think that Nano's and Shuffle's memory can be rewritten about 27000 times, so even if you rewrite the memory 10 times a day it will last more than 7 years, which is much longer than most people will use them for anyway.

iJawn108
Jun 26, 2006, 06:21 AM
Last year I wanted a 10 gig nano sooooo bad. But I really don't think I'd need that much space. I don't understand the need for more music than my battery lasts. :confused: My shuffle does the job perfectly.

iGary
Jun 26, 2006, 06:23 AM
Needs to be something spectacular for all lines this fall - very long time between updates this time, and they have to go into Christmas srtong.

macintel4me
Jun 26, 2006, 07:16 AM
Bleh ! More flash, less flash ...

Where is the VPod? :rolleyes:



I may hold a record there mine was stolen before ever reaching my hands (in transport) ... Got my money back

If there is not a xPod PDA with touchscreen by Xmas I'm going the Nokia 770 route ... :mad:
The 770 only has 1GB. :eek:

Enjoy, but I'll keep my iPod thank you very much.

agentmouthwash
Jun 26, 2006, 07:27 AM
Sure, the Nano has a small capacity, but people like me with over 40GB of music on our computers prefer Nanos over high-capacity ipods for 2 reasons:
(1) the Nano is small - i barely notice it in my pocket.
(2) Flash drive (no hard drive) - my 3rd Gen iPod had way too many hard Drive problems and I'm not going to back to a HD-based iPod.

I went from a 40GB ipod to a 4GB Nano and I couldn't be happier. How could I fit all my music on such a small device? 2 words: SMART PLAYLISTS.

Chances are I'm not going to listen to every song on my ipod during my commute to work. so every day I do a sync and I get a refreshed SMART PLAYLIST to listen to.

noservice2001
Jun 26, 2006, 07:28 AM
12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs


whats the difference between a touch screen and tough screen?

MacDonaldsd
Jun 26, 2006, 07:30 AM
Can only be good, 12GB will be enough for most people.

noservice2001
Jun 26, 2006, 07:30 AM
I think that Nano's and Shuffle's memory can be rewritten about 27000 times, so even if you rewrite the memory 10 times a day it will last more than 7 years, which is much longer than most people will use them for anyway.

my shuffle died after a year of use.... but then again, i used it as a flash disk, and was writing to it and such more than 10x a day....

Lollypop
Jun 26, 2006, 07:34 AM
Needs to be something spectacular for all lines this fall - very long time between updates this time, and they have to go into Christmas srtong.

I agree, but I dont think increasing the size is spectacular enough. Nor do I think 12gigs is really a good idea right now, go for 6 and 8.. that will be a better growth pattern.

Tom B.
Jun 26, 2006, 07:42 AM
my shuffle died after a year of use.... but then again, i used it as a flash disk, and was writing to it and such more than 10x a day....

To use the maximum amount of rewrite times in 1 year, you must of rewritten the memory 74 times a day, which is unlikely so I'm sure it stopped working for a different reason.

ezekielrage_99
Jun 26, 2006, 07:48 AM
12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs

Sign me up for those because I need a new iPod, an 8GB Nano would be sweet :D

cbigfoot1987
Jun 26, 2006, 08:31 AM
How fast are NAND flash drives (read and write speeds, access times) compared to hard drives?



Is this really true? If it was, I wouldn't mind paying even a thousand dollars extra for a NAND flash drive for my next laptop (Macbook or Pro).

here are the Numbers From Samsung
FYI 20µs Means 20 NANO Seconds

Voltage Supply
- 2.70V ~ 3.60V
Organization
- Memory Cell Array : (1G + 32M) x 8bit
- Data Register : (2K + 64) x 8bit
Automatic Program and Erase
- Page Program : (2K + 64)Byte
- Block Erase : (128K + 4K)Byte
Page Read Operation
- Page Size : (2K + 64)Byte
- Random Read : 20µs(Max.)
- Serial Access : 25ns(Min.)
* K9NBG08U5M : 50ns(Min.)
Fast Write Cycle Time
- Page Program time : 200µs(Typ.)
- Block Erase Time : 1.5ms(Typ.)
Command/Address/Data Multiplexed I/O Port
Hardware Data Protection
- Program/Erase Lockout During Power Transitions
Reliable CMOS Floating-Gate Technology
- Endurance : 100K Program/Erase Cycles(with 1bit/512Byte ECC)
- Data Retention : 10 Years
Command Driven Operation
Intelligent Copy-Back with internal 1bit/528Byte EDC
Unique ID for Copyright Protection
Package :
- K9K8G08U0M-YCB0/YIB0
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9K8G08U0M-PCB0/PIB0 : Pb-FREE PACKAGE
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9WAG08U1M-YCB0/YIB0
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9WAG08U1M-PCB0/PIB0 : Pb-FREE PACKAGE
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)
- K9WAG08U1M-ICB0/IIB0
52 - Pin TLGA (12 x 17 / 1.0 mm pitch)
- K9NBG08U5M-PCB0/PIB0 : Pb-FREE PACKAGE
48 - Pin TSOP I (12 x 20 / 0.5 mm pitch)

m-dogg
Jun 26, 2006, 08:37 AM
Where's my 80 and 100 GB iPods for those of us who roll big?

You beat me to it. My thoughts exactly.

I want my GB in triple digits, and it doesn't have to be flash!

Yvan256
Jun 26, 2006, 08:53 AM
Typical Apple. I buy a 3rd gen. 10GB iPod in 2004 and now they're coming up with a 12GB Flash iPod nano... ;-)


When, oh when, will hard drives be replaced with flash memory? Probably never. They'll come out with something else by the time flash gets cheap enough.

With the new perpendicular recording (http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/research/recording_head/pr/index.html) of Hitachi, I wouldn't count on flash to take over hard disks anytime soon (for the price/storage ratio anyway).

sushi
Jun 26, 2006, 08:54 AM
12 GB would be nice, but I don't know if Apple would make such a significant jump so quickly, even if they had the means. The technology might be there, but there's more to running a successful business than simple technology decisions. Apple might choose to go with 6 GB or 8 GB nanos for starters, as this might make better sense from a business perspective. It will of course depend on what competition is doing as well, profit margins, many factors at play here...

Regardless, larger capacity nanos and full-screen video iPods this fall would make a deadly combination for both consumers and Apple themselves heading into the busy Christmas shopping season! :cool:
I agree with you that they will up the capacity but probably not hit the 12GB point for a Nano.

Currently we are at 1, 2, and 4. If they double across the line with 2, 4 and 8 while keeping prices the same that in itself would be good and create a buying surge I would think.

Having said that, for some reason a 10GB flash model seems to be a magical number, or milestone may be a better way to put it.

On a side note I would love to replace my 10GB G1 iPod with a Nano of similar capacity so maybe I am biased about the 10GB Nano model.

Also, somewhere down the road I believe that we'll see the Toshiba 40 and 80 GB 1.8 inch drives used in some model of the iPod Video or the rumored true Video iPod.

Late summer or early fall would be a great time to introduce these new models to capitalize on the back to school sales and the upcoming holidays.

guzhogi
Jun 26, 2006, 08:59 AM
Anyone notice in the 1st post that it said "Gartner forecasts that a 16Gb (2GB) device". 16 Gb (2GB). Technically, when they use Gb (little b), it means gigabit and GB (big b), it means gigabyte, which is 8 gigabits. And 16 gb (gigabits) is the same as 2 GB (gigabytes) so what's going on?

Personally, I'd like to have the biggest amount of memory possibble for music, videos and whatever else I need. Unfortunately, I won't be able to afford it on my salary. I work at an elementary school as their "technology assistant" (just a fancy way of saying "computer geek") and right now, I make just under $15 grand a year. However, my union just got a new contract for which the base pay goes up by about $2/hr so I'll be making a little over $17 grand a year after the contract goes into effect next month.

Flash memory probably won't match hard drive capacities any time soon. The largest hard drive I've seen is Seagate's 750 GB drive while largest flash drive I've heard about is 8 (someone correct me if you've heard different).

gauriemma
Jun 26, 2006, 09:06 AM
...I can't imagine Apple wouldn't make that big a leap—as noted elsewhere, tripling the capacity of their largest-capacity Nano would be unlikely—in one shot. I agree that the increases will be more likely be incremental.

fenixx
Jun 26, 2006, 09:07 AM
Where's my 80 and 100 GB iPods for those of us who roll big?

+1


My current iPod (photo 30gb) is about to explode. 500 mb of space left... next time I'll get the largest model available.

*Crosses fingers for at least an 80gb*

gauriemma
Jun 26, 2006, 09:10 AM
The Nano is in need of a refresh whether or not a 12 GB version comes to fruition. It seems to me the Nano is getting a lot of pressure from the SanDisk Sansa e200 series. Pricing for the Sansa beats the Nano at all capacity points and often is available with rebates to obtain even lower price points. Additionally, there is a larger 6GB version available.

Do you know even one person who bought that SanDisk device? I think it's already come and gone, like the Sony 'Bean' thing, or whatever the hell that was.

supremedesigner
Jun 26, 2006, 09:22 AM
12Gb seems high, what about

2Gb Shuffle-99
4 Gb Nano-149
8GB Nano-199
10Gb Nano-249
True Video iPod 40Gb(touch screen)-299
True Video iPod 80Gb(tough screen)-399


That way people who dislike the touchscreen idea, still have a Nano with Click Wheel, and still hold lots of songs

Actually, I would like it to be called vPod instead of True Video iPod. It's a lot easier to say that. Don't ya'll agreed with me?

BenRoethig
Jun 26, 2006, 09:40 AM
This is the way I see it...

iPod Shuffle (2GB w/ 24 hour battery + available in black) - $79
iPod Nano (2GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $139
iPod Nano (4GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $179
iPod Nano (8GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $229
Widescreen iPod (40GB w/ 16 hour battery) - $299
Widescreen iPod (80GB w/ 24 hour battery) - $399

And widescreen doesn't have to be touchscreen, just that you hold the iPod horizontally and the click wheel is turned 90 degrees to match that.

The problem with having a 2gb shuffle is that once you get past 1gb, the no screen system starts to work much less effectively.

jelloshotsrule
Jun 26, 2006, 09:45 AM
The problem with having a 2gb shuffle is that once you get past 1gb, the no screen system starts to work much less effectively.

while i'd generally agree there's a limit to what's needed on such a device, i don't get the logic of "beyond X size, the shuffle system doesn't work".

sure it does. why can't i shuffle 200 songs instead of 100? or 500 instead of 200? the fact is, there are some people it appeals to, and some it doesn't. if it doesn't appeal to enough people to be profitable, apple will drop it.

BlizzardBomb
Jun 26, 2006, 10:42 AM
24hr battery? probably not. 40Gb proper video ipod? doubt it... :rolleyes:

I'm talking about music playback here :p The current one is 20 hours, so a bigger cache and a better battery should get it up to 24 hours.

milo
Jun 26, 2006, 11:24 AM
So, Here's how I'd revise your guess:

Shuffle 1 gb - $79
Nano 4 gb - $199
Nano 8 gb - $249

Apple has well established price tiers, they won't erode them, they just have to find the right value to sell for the price. Also Apple likes to double or better your memory in iPods every $50 or so. My forecast figures that in too.

No nano for $149? I don't think so, they won't dump that price point after having a model there for so long. I think it's much more likely that they'll just double the current sizes and keep the same prices. And hopefully do the same with the shuffles.

Also, isn't apple rumored to have the video ipod in addition to the current big ipod, not as a replacement? I still think the sizes are too small, I'd love to see 150-200 gig ipods and beyond at some point.

I wish they'd update before fall, the nano is way overdue and not nearly as price competitive as it was months ago. I'd love to buy one, but at this point it's not happening until they update.

So does nano have autofill like shuffle? I thought not, and it seems like a significant drawback.

Actually, I would like it to be called vPod instead of True Video iPod. It's a lot easier to say that. Don't ya'll agreed with me?

It would probably just be Video iPod or iPod Video, the "true" is only what people call it unofficially to keep them straight (since the current one is NOT called the video ipod).

The problem with having a 2gb shuffle is that once you get past 1gb, the no screen system starts to work much less effectively.

Some people wouldn't like it. But I'd love to see the option, the whole concept of just putting it on shuffle (and using autofill with smart playlists) doesn't change with more space.

sam10685
Jun 26, 2006, 11:28 AM
You beat me to it. My thoughts exactly.

I want my GB in triple digits, and it doesn't have to be flash!

is there such thing as triple digit flash storeages in gigabytes?

jelloshotsrule
Jun 26, 2006, 11:34 AM
No nano for $149? I don't think so, they won't dump that price point after having a model there for so long. I think it's much more likely that they'll just double the current sizes and keep the same prices. And hopefully do the same with the shuffles.

Also, isn't apple rumored to have the video ipod in addition to the current big ipod, not as a replacement? I still think the sizes are too small, I'd love to see 150-200 gig ipods and beyond at some point.

So does nano have autofill like shuffle? I thought not, and it seems like a significant drawback.


the $149 nano is the newest in the line, so it hasn't been that long. that certainly doesn't mean it's going to happen, but just pointing out that it really hasn't been in the lineup that long.

yeah, the rumors generally say that the video ipod would be a complement, not replacement. most people still want music first and video second. i suppose it's possible that apple could come up with a great way to make it a "true" video ipod without hurting the music capabilities in any way.

i'm 99.9% sure the nano does NOT have autofill. i'd like to see it on all pods actually. even if it would be very very slow for the bigger ones, it'd be nice to have the option...

JackSYi
Jun 26, 2006, 11:49 AM
I wish Apple would use a new enclosure with scratch resistant stainless steel and a matte finish.

lazyrighteye
Jun 26, 2006, 12:27 PM
May have been stated earlier (on this board, I'm sure it has), but what if these larger capacity NAND flash drives are intended for this mythical iPod Phone/PDA/Newton/Mega Pod device?
I so see a market for a what I'm calling a Bridge™ device: a Mac away from your Mac - but not a laptop. A compact, Home Folder on the go. Maybe the size of 2 iPods side x side (roughly).

I just don't see the Nano jumping from 4 to 12GB. No way. Not hap'nin.
Even if it were possible, we all know how the story goes: Apple would roll out a 6 GB Nano, sell that for 6-8 months, bump another 2GB, and continue this process until they hit 12GB (and a grip of cash in sales). Such is the way of product roll-outs.

praetorian909
Jun 26, 2006, 12:28 PM
Anyone notice in the 1st post that it said "Gartner forecasts that a 16Gb (2GB) device". 16 Gb (2GB). Technically, when they use Gb (little b), it means gigabit and GB (big b), it means gigabyte, which is 8 gigabits. And 16 gb (gigabits) is the same as 2 GB (gigabytes) so what's going on?



They're talking about a 2GB memory chip coming down in price. I think originally the nano had 1GB chips in it, so like a 4GB nano would have four of these chips. So a 2nd gen nano would use these new 2GB chips nstead.

As I posted earlier, I don't see how they could squeeze 6 of these chips in a new nano to make 12GB. 8GB or 10GB seems much more likely to me.

quigleybc
Jun 26, 2006, 12:37 PM
I went to an outdoor Chinese Market here last weekend and saw all the "fake iPods" it was really funny, they look just like Nano's...and they're like 50 bucks...

of course I didn't buy one, but they're hilarious to look at.


one guy was like "these have a 90 day warranty" I just laughed......:D

morespce54
Jun 26, 2006, 01:36 PM
The problem with having a 2gb shuffle is that once you get past 1gb, the no screen system starts to work much less effectively.

Exactly my toughts...

That's why a 1GB shuffle, 4GB Nano, 8GB Nano (or a 10GB that would be really sweet, or even better, a 12GB for me!) would make senses. :rolleyes:

My girlfriend has a 10GB. She's just waiting for that kind of revemping... :)

ChrisA
Jun 26, 2006, 02:17 PM
12Gb seems high,


"b" is "bits". "B" is Bytes" so 12Gb is equal to 12/8GB or 1.5GB. which i actually a little on the small side.

Engineers tend to think in terms of "bits" because the memory in various different widths. For example there are many 4-bit computers used inside products like microwave ovens and the like.

unigolyn
Jun 26, 2006, 04:44 PM
Engineers tend to think in terms of "bits" because the memory in various different widths. For example there are many 4-bit computers used inside products like microwave ovens and the like.

This has nothing to do with bytes, though. A byte is 8 bits and always will be. A GB is a confusing enough term as it is, what with storage vendors pretending that 4 billion bytes is 40 gigabytes (more like 37). 16Gb sounds a heck of a lot better than 2GB.

And Apple will NEVER release a 12gb nano. If they can up it to a 6gb while using half as many flash chips, they'll leave the price points the same and up their profits. (lineup something like 1gig shuffle, 2, 4, 6gb nanos, 30 and 60gb iPods.

12gb is way too much for a Nano and would eat into the market of the full-size iPods.

Phobophobia
Jun 26, 2006, 05:36 PM
And Apple will NEVER release a 12gb nano.

512k of memory should be enough for everyone.

Hattig
Jun 26, 2006, 05:56 PM
IMO Apple will go to 8GB if they can get away with it, and thus leave the 12GB open for spring 2007.

We'll probably end up with a product line like:

$249 8GB
$179 4GB
$139 2GB
[$109 1GB, if retained]

And 40GB and 80GB iPods above that, of whatever type Apple decides to release.

I've found the 4GB restrictive because I can't have all my music with me, and iTunes' idea of a random playlist doesn't change the songs in said list, nor can I fill to capacity, e.g., New Music, Then Highest Rated, then fill the rest with random.

Nye553
Jun 26, 2006, 06:40 PM
a 10gb nano would be nice... would be even more nice if the screens were under warranty :)

sushi
Jun 26, 2006, 08:37 PM
They're talking about a 2GB memory chip coming down in price. I think originally the nano had 1GB chips in it, so like a 4GB nano would have four of these chips. So a 2nd gen nano would use these new 2GB chips nstead.

As I posted earlier, I don't see how they could squeeze 6 of these chips in a new nano to make 12GB. 8GB or 10GB seems much more likely to me.
Yep, that's why I think that the current models will just double their capacity and be offered at the same price points.

However, a 10GB one would sure be sweet! :D

LaMerVipere
Jun 27, 2006, 12:31 AM
I would love a 10GB+ iPod nano.

bloodycape
Jun 27, 2006, 01:05 AM
Also, somewhere down the road I believe that we'll see the Toshiba 40 and 80 GB 1.8 inch drives used in some model of the iPod Video or the rumored true Video iPod.

If anything Toshiba will introduce those hd in Q1 2007. But then again seeing how the new Gigabeat S came out to some mix reviews and a battery fiasco they might bring it out earlier.

Besides if a 12gig nano get introduce you have think of where the 1, 2 and 4 gig would be priced at where a 6gig which we know will come out for sure. Plus if a 6 gig plus anything over that gets introduce like an 8, 10 or even 12 gig then I don't think the a Shuffle will come out(even if they replace some of the current Nano models) since the Shuffle will be price to low for Apple to make a good profit. But this is what I am speculating.

hyperpasta
Jun 27, 2006, 07:32 AM
How about:

iPod shuffle 1 GB - $69
iPod nano 3 GB - $149
iPod nano 5 GB - $199
iPod nano 10 GB - $249
vPod 30 GB - $299
vPod 60 GB - $399

Later on adjusted to:

iPod shuffle 1 GB - $49
iPod nano 3 GB - $99
iPod nano 5 GB - $149
iPod nano 10 GB - $199
vPod 30 GB - $249
vPod 60 GB - $349

ready2switch
Jun 27, 2006, 09:15 AM
Doubling the capacity and keeping the price points seems very doable, and enough of an upgrade to really boost sales. I would definately get the 8GB nano if it were available. Of course, Tripling would be better (3, 6, 12) :p

thejadedmonkey
Jun 27, 2006, 09:52 AM
I wish they still used black and white screens...

sushi
Jun 27, 2006, 09:58 AM
How about:

iPod shuffle 1 GB - $69
iPod nano 3 GB - $149
iPod nano 5 GB - $199
iPod nano 10 GB - $249
Since the new chips are 2GB, I would say we will see evenly devisable sizes such as 2, 4, and 8GB. Basically doubling the current offerings at the same or cheaper price points. I doubt that we would see odd sized Flash iPods.

Note, I personally would love to see a 10GB model if they could squeeze 5 chips vice 4 in the Nano's form factor.

A 2GB Shuffle would probably sell well in the Thumb Drive / Music Player market -- Especially a slightly smaller sized model.

~Shard~
Jun 27, 2006, 11:03 AM
I wish they still used black and white screens...

It would sure save on battery life... ;)

chuckles:)
Jun 27, 2006, 11:21 AM
i think the iPod updates in the fall will be a wee bit more spectacular than a storage boost. By than it will have been a year since an update, so something huge should be expected. i think well see some physically smaller nanos, with some of that space between the wheel and the screen gone, with bigger capacities (The capacities are not really that important). apple has always been ahead of the curve not only as far as technology goes, but with innovation as well.

i think were in for a fun september.

~Shard~
Jun 27, 2006, 11:44 AM
i think were in for a fun september.

Actually, it will all begin August 7th with the Mac Pros. :cool:

lord patton
Jun 27, 2006, 12:03 PM
They're talking about a 2GB memory chip coming down in price. I think originally the nano had 1GB chips in it, so like a 4GB nano would have four of these chips. So a 2nd gen nano would use these new 2GB chips nstead.

As I posted earlier, I don't see how they could squeeze 6 of these chips in a new nano to make 12GB. 8GB or 10GB seems much more likely to me.

The current 4 gig nano has one "chip", and an empty slot for another. Folks have reportedly parted out a broken nano and added 4 gigs to a working nano, for a total of 8.

So even without new chips or a redesign, if prices fall Apple could simply double the max capacity to 8 gigs on the high end nano.

JAT
Jun 27, 2006, 12:57 PM
I just don't see the Nano jumping from 4 to 12GB. No way. Not hap'nin.
Even if it were possible, we all know how the story goes: Apple would roll out a 6 GB Nano, sell that for 6-8 months, bump another 2GB, and continue this process until they hit 12GB (and a grip of cash in sales). Such is the way of product roll-outs.
Considering the Nano didn't improve on space from the Mini, I'd say they are a gen behind in upgrades. 12GB would be enough for me to drop to the Nano right now. (from a HDD iPod)

whee900
Jun 28, 2006, 12:08 AM
Yeah.. It would be very easy for Apple to bump the nano up to 6 and 8 gigs; just install a 2 and 4 gig module respectively in a 4 gig nano, change the laser engraving on the back, and you have a marketable 8 gig nano! But it'll be disappointing if we don't get something else new along with the update... What about video capability?

April Dancer
Jun 28, 2006, 05:14 AM
Aw, are we not due to see an update till the autumn d'you think? My 60GB vid has 1GB left and I badly need bigger, muuuuch bigger. My brother is going to take it off my hands when the 6G appears but he needs it now. I don't want him to go and buy a new one, leaving me with on to get rid of in Sept. :mad:

C'mon Steve, 100GB widescreen please! </wishful thinking>

bloodycape
Jun 29, 2006, 01:23 AM
Aw, are we not due to see an update till the autumn d'you think? My 60GB vid has 1GB left and I badly need bigger, muuuuch bigger. My brother is going to take it off my hands when the 6G appears but he needs it now. I don't want him to go and buy a new one, leaving me with on to get rid of in Sept. :mad:

C'mon Steve, 100GB widescreen please! </wishful thinking>


Why wait for apple when you can get an equally well Archos with 80gigs if you are in Europe and 100gigs world wide. Plus it is wide screen and stuff with many features that ipod may not ever get?

April Dancer
Jun 29, 2006, 04:55 AM
Why wait for apple when you can get an equally well Archos with 80gigs if you are in Europe and 100gigs world wide. Plus it is wide screen and stuff with many features that ipod may not ever get?

True... I guess I'm a coward. Always had an iPod so would like to stick with it. I've never looked at anything else. Maybe it's time I did...:)

bloodycape
Jun 30, 2006, 01:35 AM
True... I guess I'm a coward. Always had an iPod so would like to stick with it. I've never looked at anything else. Maybe it's time I did...:)

You'd be surprise what you find and how just as easy as the ipod is some of them are.

On another note some dude who claims to work for sandisk posted a picture of a so called 8gig Sansa flash player. So it looks like they are the only one so far with a 6gig flash player and now a 8gig flash player. http://www.pmpz.net/pics/newspics/sansa_e280.jpg

wmmk
Jun 30, 2006, 02:52 AM
You'd be surprise what you find and how just as easy as the ipod is some of them are.

On another note some dude who claims to work for sandisk posted a picture of a so called 8gig Sansa flash player. So it looks like they are the only one so far with a 6gig flash player and now a 8gig flash player. http://www.pmpz.net/pics/newspics/sansa_e280.jpg
whoa! that doesnt try to copy apple's GUI or industrial design at all!:rolleyes: