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View Full Version : If an iPod was made in USA, how much $?




princealfie
Jun 26, 2006, 10:57 PM
If an iPod were made in the USA completely, how much would it be? I am thinking a little more than what we pay for nowadays...



GoCubsGo
Jun 26, 2006, 11:07 PM
I would guess about $50-$100 more.

iShane
Jun 26, 2006, 11:16 PM
I would guess about $50-$100 more.

I would agree with that. One of the benefits of making them in foreign countries.

benthewraith
Jun 26, 2006, 11:27 PM
I would agree with that. One of the benefits of making them in foreign countries.

I disagree. $150 more or higher. Remember, "unions", think about the "unions".

thejadedmonkey
Jun 27, 2006, 12:09 AM
I disagree. $150 more or higher. Remember, "unions", think about the "unions".
Dell and Gateway assemble in the US of A because it's cheeper than assembling in china and shipping them over seas to america. Going by that it probably wouldn't be much more.

jsw
Jun 27, 2006, 12:14 AM
But, of course, if by "made in the USA" you mean completely made in the USA - no imported parts - then you're looking at a very expensive piece of equipment, because Apple would need to ramp up production of parts which currently aren't made anywhere on this continent.

Jaffa Cake
Jun 27, 2006, 12:14 AM
It would also depend on exactly how much profit Apple makes per iPod, and how much of that profit they'd be willing to surrender to try to keep the price competitive.

interpolic
Jun 27, 2006, 01:53 AM
Don't forget, as well as the price being higher, the build quality would also be lower.

For example the difference between US made and Japanese made cars, asian workers tend to be more efficient than american ones as well as being cheaper.

netdog
Jun 27, 2006, 02:04 AM
It seems to me that iPods are generally priced at the maximum that Apple thinks the market will bear. 30GB and 60GB iPods are very expensive and really quite simple.

Eraserhead
Jun 27, 2006, 04:18 AM
it would probably cost about $10 more, the major cost is the factory/machines NOT the labour

The quality wouldn't necessarily be poor, they still make cars in the UK (we used to make rubbish cars) for Japanese/US companies and they are some of the most efficient factories in the world. The major problem with this is that most electronics are made in the Far East which would need to be imported.

RichP
Jun 27, 2006, 09:41 AM
It would cost $6000, be 3X the size, and hold 70 songs.

Just kidding of course...

I wonder how "automated" the ipod production process is?

blitzkrieg79
Jun 27, 2006, 10:24 AM
Ipod made in US wouldn't cost a whole lot more than it costs today as cheap labor saves the comapnies some money but you also have to factor in shipping costs from Asia to North America which is definately not that cheap. Besides, labor cost in mass quanity produced goods really isn't the biggest expense as corporate world would want you to believe.

As far as quality goes, don't underestimate American workers and don't overestimate Asian workers as I had some crappy Made in China, Malaysia, India products in my lifetime too from big boys such as Sony or Panasonic.

And as far as Japanese cars go, somehow Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi can open up factories in USA (of course emloyed by American workers) and yet produce very reliable cars and yet "American" comapnies can't do the same on their own soil. I think it has to do with using higher quality build materials, better training, and higher quality control.

Anonymous Freak
Jun 27, 2006, 11:09 AM
Dell and Gateway assemble in the US of A because it's cheeper than assembling in china and shipping them over seas to america. Going by that it probably wouldn't be much more.

Since when do either of them assemble in the U.S. anymore? The computers are assembled in China/Taiwan, then shipped to a U.S. facility for 'loading'. Only the software is loaded in the U.S.

This is especially true for notebooks. I don't think a single company assembles notebooks in the U.S. anymore.

As for assembling in China then shipping to the U.S. being expensive? SOCKS are made that way. They ship the cotton (or polyester, whatever,) to China, have the cotton turned into socks, then shipped back to the U.S. They are then sold at Wal-Mart for so much cheaper than pure made-in-the-USA socks could be sold for that all of the U.S. sock-making companies are going out of business. (Really, look it up, it's been on the news multiple times in the past couple years.)

Dont Hurt Me
Jun 27, 2006, 11:24 AM
$10 bucks more, that is unless the greedy CEO's wanted more so maybe $20 while employing illegal mexicans to avoid the minimum wage cost that congress has frozen from 10 yrs ago.. Its not about the worker its about the richest of the rich so they can become richer.

jsw
Jun 27, 2006, 11:30 AM
Two comments since my last post:

(a) Of course iPods are priced as high as Apple can get away with. That's what businesses do.

(b) What is the point of doing final assembly here? All the manufacture and assembly of all the subcomponents isn't important? If it were cheaper to do it here and/or better to do it here, Apple would do it here. If it's cheaper and/or better to do it elsewhere - and it is - then they'll do that. That's also what businesses do.

I've yet to see any compelling or even remotely encouraging reason to do iPod assembly here in the States, other than to promote the employment of poorly-educated low-skill US workers.

jelloshotsrule
Jun 27, 2006, 11:51 AM
(b) What is the point of doing final assembly here? All the manufacture and assembly of all the subcomponents isn't important? If it were cheaper to do it here and/or better to do it here, Apple would do it here. If it's cheaper and/or better to do it elsewhere - and it is - then they'll do that. That's also what businesses do.

I've yet to see any compelling or even remotely encouraging reason to do iPod assembly here in the States, other than to promote the employment of poorly-educated low-skill US workers.

there wouldn't necessarily be a compelling business reason (otherwise they'd have done it, right?), but there may be a human rights reason. so i guess the question just becomes how valuable is that? and that's not to say that all factories in china (or any other non US place) are horrible, but the countries do lack some of the labor laws that are in place here, to provide a safeguard against the corporations' profit-first business practices.

i'd agree that in general the price wouldn't go up a huge amount. there are some things that, as jsw pointed out before, just aren't made in the US at all, so it'd be tough to have it be 100% made in the US. i think a more important issue is not whether it's made in the US, but just that it's NOT made in a place with inhumane working conditions (not talking about wages here)

Timepass
Jun 27, 2006, 11:58 AM
Don't forget, as well as the price being higher, the build quality would also be lower.

For example the difference between US made and Japanese made cars, asian workers tend to be more efficient than american ones as well as being cheaper.


umm dude you are kind of wrong there. There are a lot of japanese cars that you buy that are built in the US.

Difference is the control standards the japanese companies use are tighter. The engineering to begin with it better. A lot of the "armerican cars" you buy are built more by forgeign than the japanese cars you buy. It be like 70% parts on some fords while only 30-40% parts on japanese and they are both built in the US.

Dont forget There are honda and toyata plants in the US pumping out cars that has the same high quility as all there other ones. Sorry the reason most of the Japanese cars are better is the engineering and design of them is the better. So the build quility would go up because the labor is better but in the end engineering is the limiting factor of them.

Anonymous Freak
Jun 27, 2006, 02:10 PM
umm dude you are kind of wrong there. There are a lot of japanese cars that you buy that are built in the US.

Very correct.

Most Honda Civics and Accords sold in the U.S. are built in the U.S. 1 (http://www.autointell.com/asian_companies/honda_motor/honda-mfg/honda-mfg-01.htm) 2 (http://www.hondanews.com/catID1020?mid=20010212001257&mime=asc)

All Toyota Camrys sold in the U.S. are built in the U.S. 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_Kentucky) 2 (http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/manufacturing/index.html)

portent
Jun 27, 2006, 03:21 PM
Since when do either of them assemble in the U.S. anymore? The computers are assembled in China/Taiwan, then shipped to a U.S. facility for 'loading'. Only the software is loaded in the U.S.

This is especially true for notebooks. I don't think a single company assembles notebooks in the U.S. anymore.

Dell, at least, assembles virtually all of the desktops it sells in the US in its North Carolina and Texas plants. Remember that desktops are pretty easy (read:cheap) to put together, and they're big and heavy to ship. Even Apple assembles some G5 towers stateside, probably for the same reason.

IBM/Lenovo assembles a significant minority of its ThinkPads domestically, but I don't expect this to continue for long.

robPOD
Jun 27, 2006, 05:59 PM
It would cost at least $100 - $150 more and also becuase of unions the wages would be higher

portent
Jun 27, 2006, 06:12 PM
It would cost at least $100 - $150 more and also becuase of unions the wages would be higher
No way. Nobody opens union plants anymore. The only union manufacturing operations are older plants, especially those in the rust belt.

All new plants, including the ones that the Japanese and Korean automakers are opening, are non-union, and are usually located in the South where state laws are corporation-friendly.

jsw
Jun 27, 2006, 06:15 PM
i think a more important issue is not whether it's made in the US, but just that it's NOT made in a place with inhumane working conditions (not talking about wages here)
I agree with that. We might have differing definitions of inhumane working conditions - especially as opposed to the alternative of no jobs in an area - but I agree in principle with you.

Counterfit
Jun 27, 2006, 08:02 PM
Very correct.

Most Honda Civics and Accords sold in the U.S. are built in the U.S. 1 (http://www.autointell.com/asian_companies/honda_motor/honda-mfg/honda-mfg-01.htm) 2 (http://www.hondanews.com/catID1020?mid=20010212001257&mime=asc)

All Toyota Camrys sold in the U.S. are built in the U.S. 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_Manufacturing_Kentucky) 2 (http://www.toyota.com/about/operations/manufacturing/index.html)
The only high-ish-volume Japanese car I can think of that is shipped from Japan is the Subaru Impreza, as the Legacy, Outback, Baja, and B9 Tribeca are all manufactured in the U.S. (at least, the ones for domestic sale). 1 (http://www.subaru.com/common/about/about_indiana.jsp)

yg17
Jun 27, 2006, 08:30 PM
And as far as Japanese cars go, somehow Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi can open up factories in USA (of course emloyed by American workers) and yet produce very reliable cars and yet "American" comapnies can't do the same on their own soil. I think it has to do with using higher quality build materials, better training, and higher quality control.

Ditto. It's the engineering behind the car that matters the most, because you could train a monkey to screw some parts together.

Plus, it has a lot to do with unions. It's very difficult for unionized employees to be fired. So if someone is slacking off, there's not a whole lot that can be done, because if you fire them, the union will back them up, and it's just not worth it. But with nonunionized plants, if someone's slacking, they can easily be given the pink slip, which I think helps encourage people to actually put forth their best effort.

jelloshotsrule
Jun 28, 2006, 12:27 PM
I agree with that. We might have differing definitions of inhumane working conditions - especially as opposed to the alternative of no jobs in an area - but I agree in principle with you.

again, not talking about wages (though there IS such a thing as too little, of course)... no job vs. job where you are raped and beaten is not a point of debate, in my mind. i'd imagine that the women certainly have it the worst.

princealfie
Jun 28, 2006, 12:48 PM
and the bling bling ipod model?

slackersonly
Jun 28, 2006, 01:43 PM
I disagree. $150 more or higher. Remember, "unions", think about the "unions".

I disagree. Unions are dinosaurs. Look at what they have done to the airline and auto industry. Unions are not making traction at all with new companies so I doubt they would in our hypothetical company.

I agree the bigger problem is getting all the components which are currently also being made in the overseas markets. shipping 4-5 components to the US would be more expensive than just the 1 shipment for the final product.

So I would say 30-40% more if our hypothetical company just assembles and 50-70% more if our hypothetial company produces all parts and assembles or gets only US parts and then assembles.

shipping, wages, benefits, real estate taxes on the facilities, loss of foreign income tax benefits, paying tariffs to exports items back to asia, etc all add significant costs.

Subiklim
Jun 28, 2006, 02:20 PM
I doubt the price would be exponentially higher. They could only be assmebled here, not 100% made in the USA, as many of the chemicals required to make most consumer electrionics are illegal in this country.

Sedulous
Jun 28, 2006, 02:30 PM
Don't forget, as well as the price being higher, the build quality would also be lower.

For example the difference between US made and Japanese made cars, asian workers tend to be more efficient than american ones as well as being cheaper.

Nope. Most "Japanese" cars are made in the U.S.. Most "U.S." cars are made in Mexico.