PDA

View Full Version : New PowerMac (Mac Pro) and MacBook Pro Enclosures


Pages : [1] 2

MacRumors
Jul 4, 2006, 11:29 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0606macpro.html) that when the PowerMac G5 gets its replacement at the Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC), it will sport a new enclosure.

The new case is said to be "substantially different" to signify the transition to the Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe). The internal configurations are said to be comparable to current PowerMacs:

Configurations of the new Mac are said to be similar to those of the most recent Power Mac G5, including a single dual-core processor in the low- and mid-range systems, and a dual dual-core (quad core) system at the top end.


ThinkSecret also expects that the MacBook Pro will also sport a new enclosure once it adopts the Core 2 Duo processor (Merom).

Apple recently trademarked (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/05/20060524193509.shtml) Mac Pro which is expected to be the new name for the PowerMac line.

emotion
Jul 4, 2006, 11:32 AM
Black anodized alloy enclosures. Come on Apple you know you want to :)

Hmm come to think of it imagine the complaints about scratches...

Mr. DG
Jul 4, 2006, 11:33 AM
Does quad therefore imply woodcrest rather than conroe?

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 11:35 AM
Dual Conroes

Max on Macs
Jul 4, 2006, 11:35 AM
Does quad therefore imply woodcrest rather than conroe?
I would imagine so, we already know that the Conroe won't support dual processor configurations.

michaeldmartin
Jul 4, 2006, 11:35 AM
Quad might mean dual dual core processors.

Flowbee
Jul 4, 2006, 11:35 AM
Hopefully the Mac Pro will be a bit smaller than the current G5 PowerMac.

shigzeo
Jul 4, 2006, 11:36 AM
but as i logged in, i realized this will never be a first post for me. i am glad of new enclosures though i love the g5 powermac. as for macbook pro, i cannot wait. the new macbook itself is the reason i still believe in design magik and if macbook pro can be improved upon, i will cheer very loudly

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 11:38 AM
Quad might mean dual dual core processors.


Exactly!

Keep in mind Intel and Apple have been working on the guts of the MacPro for some time and it will be unique:-)

kskill
Jul 4, 2006, 11:38 AM
this news isn't so shocking... but i'm pretty excited to see what the designs will actually be.

Macmaniac
Jul 4, 2006, 11:41 AM
Can't wait to see a new enclosure, the G5 case was just way too big!

Chundles
Jul 4, 2006, 11:41 AM
Dual Conroes

Can't do it, Conroe only supports one chip. If we want a Quad we need Woodcrest.

luminosity
Jul 4, 2006, 11:43 AM
Messing with the MBP enclosure design is a bad move.

azzurri000
Jul 4, 2006, 11:43 AM
In terms of the MacBook Pro, I'd like to see how they can improve upon perfection. I'm a little nervous as to how it will look... but I guess each successive PowerBook revision looked snazzier than the one before it.

MrPineapples
Jul 4, 2006, 11:43 AM
I'll be glad if this is true, all the new intel mac's (apart from the macbook) have disapointed me by having almost the same enclosures as the models they replaced. My next mac was going to be a powermac but i've held out for an intel update i'm sure it'll be a beast.

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 11:44 AM
Can't do it, Conroe only supports one chip. If we want a Quad we need Woodcrest.

The Conroe "chip" is a dual-core

The new "logic board" will accept two chips..
Watch

Think outside the box Chundles!! Think outside the box..

Chundles
Jul 4, 2006, 11:45 AM
Quad might mean dual dual core processors.

That's what we have at the moment, the PowerMac Quad is two 2.5GHz dual-core processors.

For four cores in a MacPro you need the SMP capabilities of the Woodcrest chip, Conroe can't support multi-chip configurations - it would be OK for iMacs and low range MacPros but for a Quad replacement you need Woodcrest.

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 11:47 AM
The Conroe "chip" is a dual-core

The new "logic board" will accept two chips..
Watch

Think outside the box Chundles!! Think outside the box..
Conroe cannot run in dual chip configurations.

A Woodcrest is basically the same chip as the Conroe, but does allow dual-chip motherboards.

azzurri000
Jul 4, 2006, 11:47 AM
I'll be glad if this is true, all the new intel mac's (apart from the macbook) have disapointed me by having almost the same enclosures as the models they replaced. My next mac was going to be a powermac but i've held out for an intel update i'm sure it'll be a beast.

I know cars are in a completely different boat than computers, but I think Apple should stick to its beautiful designs and only make minor changes to the models' formfactors like Porsche would do. If you've got a great thing, why completely obliterate it?

Chundles
Jul 4, 2006, 11:48 AM
The Conroe "chip" is a dual-core

The new "logic board" will accept two chips..
Watch

Think outside the box Chundles!! Think outside the box..

I know it's a dual-core, but Conroe doesn't have the ability to work in multi-processor arrangements, only Woodcrest can do that.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 11:49 AM
conroe cannot be run SMP, seriously, can this finally be accepted as common knowledge conroe ? SMP SMP is required to run more than one physical chip and conroe is one chip with two cores woodcrest is one chip with two cores that have the capability to be run in tandem with annother woodcrest giveing four cores.


woodcrest is what is going in the mac pro, their may be a single dual conroe offering at the low end as a consumer tower but woodcrest is cheaper at the high end (the 3GHz woodcrest is cheaper than the 2.92GHz extreme edition core2duo)

conroe and woodcrest use the exact same cores just conroe has SMP disabled.

Chundles
Jul 4, 2006, 11:49 AM
Conroe cannot run in dual chip configurations.

A Woodcrest is basically the same chip as the Conroe, but does allow dual-chip motherboards.

et voila!

BlizzardBomb
Jul 4, 2006, 11:50 AM
Remember TS were the ones who said the MacBook would come with a Core Solo... Also dual-Conroes aren't possible.

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 11:50 AM
I know it's a dual-core, but Conroe doesn't have the ability to work in multi-processor arrangements, only Woodcrest can do that.

Unless Intel/Apple designed a completely different MB:)

longofest
Jul 4, 2006, 11:52 AM
I know it's a dual-core, but Conroe doesn't have the ability to work in multi-processor arrangements, only Woodcrest can do that.

Correct. I think ThinkSecret has their wires crossed on this one.

Possibility has been mentioned/speculated in the forums, and isn't totally off the wall, that Apple could use Conroe for its single-CPU configs, and a Woodcrest CPU for its Quad config. While it would complicate the line technically because a different chipset would have to be used for the Woodcrest board, it would keep the cost of the single-cpu machines down (at least manufacturing costs. We as consumers may not see that benefit).

daneoni
Jul 4, 2006, 11:52 AM
I know cars are in a completely different boat than computers, but I think Apple should stick to its beautiful designs and only make minor changes to the models' formfactors like Porsche would do. If you've got a great thing, why completely obliterate it?

Ever heard the sentence "The iPod is the best selling MP3 player in the world....and now its time to replace it"

I guess Apple is one of those people that likes pushing the envelope as much as possible when it sometimes doesn't make sense to do so

Remember...Think Different.

fanbrain
Jul 4, 2006, 11:54 AM
As far as the new enclosure goes, I don't really care how big it is. Currently, my G5 just sits on the floor happily performing its mundane tasks. I couldn't care less about how much floor space it takes up. I think the current design is fine albiet a bit long in the tooth. I trust Apple's design team will come up with something good looking and hopefully more expandable than the current for factor.

MacRumoron
Jul 4, 2006, 11:54 AM
i want a mac pro :(

i need a job :mad:

localghost
Jul 4, 2006, 11:54 AM
Can't wait to see a new enclosure, the G5 case was just way too big!

to each his own i guess - i never understood why a powermac has to be small. i would not care if it was 3 times the current size as long as it has more drive bays. it is supposed to be a workhorse after all.

would be nice to see a small AND a big line of mac pros though.

SiliconAddict
Jul 4, 2006, 11:57 AM
Hopefully they can decrease the size down to something that doesn't take up the same cubic space as a mini fridge. Seriously the G5 case is the Hummer of the computer world. While there WAS a reason for its size in the past these new chips should hopefully be cool enough to handle something smaller while still having some room to expand.

ampd
Jul 4, 2006, 11:57 AM
Unless Intel/Apple designed a completely different MB

It does not matter how the motherboard is configured. The ability for Conroe to run with multiple chips does not exist. It is the chips configuration not the motherboards. Woodcrest, however, will allow for this.

bdkennedy1
Jul 4, 2006, 11:59 AM
Quad might mean dual dual core processors.

You're kidding me! Apple is going to install dual dual processors instead of wasting energy with 4 single processors? What is this 2025?

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 12:01 PM
It does not matter how the motherboard is configured. The ability for Conroe to run with multiple chips does not exist. It is the chips configuration not the motherboards. Woodcrest, however, will allow for this.

Well if that's the case perhaps a new chip as some have mentioned?
Or as Longofest said single dual-core Conroe and dual dual-core Woodcrest..


I still think Intel and Apple are designing a completely new and different MB

SiliconAddict
Jul 4, 2006, 12:02 PM
As far as the new enclosure goes, I don't really care how big it is. Currently, my G5 just sits on the floor happily performing its mundane tasks. I couldn't care less about how much floor space it takes up. I think the current design is fine albiet a bit long in the tooth. I trust Apple's design team will come up with something good looking and hopefully more expandable than the current for factor.

Did it ever occur to you that some of us might not have a crap load of space for such a huge system? I actually have several computers under my desk all of which serve a purpose. All if which can't be replaced with a single system. Move beyond just your narrow view of the world and see that there is a reason why companies are shipping thinline desktops.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 12:02 PM
if they do conroe and woodcrest towers they would have to use different ram/mobo/psu which upps the manufacturing costs, the price difference between woodcrest and conroe is minimal.

hayduke
Jul 4, 2006, 12:03 PM
Black anodized alloy enclosures. Come on Apple you know you want to :)

Hmm come to think of it imagine the complaints about scratches...

If I'm not mistaken anondizing results in an extremely hard surface which is quite difficult to scratch. In fact, I think it is harder to scratch than un-anondized aluminum. So...bring it on!!! Afteral the iPod mini's were anodized and I don't recall scratching complaints. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

page3
Jul 4, 2006, 12:05 PM
I know cars are in a completely different boat than computers, but I think Apple should stick to its beautiful designs and only make minor changes to the models' formfactors like Porsche would do. If you've got a great thing, why completely obliterate it?Porsche is not a good example. At least I can tell the front of my Mac from the back ;)

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 12:05 PM
Did it ever occur to you that some of us might not have a crap load of space for such a huge system? I actually have several computers under my desk all of which serve a purpose. All if which can't be replaced with a single system. Move beyond just your narrow view of the world and see that there is a reason why companies are shipping thinline desktops.



No just 2005.

it's your fault for not buying the g4 cube.

Kelmon
Jul 4, 2006, 12:06 PM
In terms of the MacBook Pro, I'd like to see how they can improve upon perfection. I'm a little nervous as to how it will look... but I guess each successive PowerBook revision looked snazzier than the one before it.

I'd like to see those horrible silver keys go away for starters. Most of the existing MacBook Pro enclosure is very nice but I've detested the silver keys ever since I saw them in real life (they actually looked OK in the pictures). I'm just gutted that I'm going to have to wait longer for the laptop that I've been lusting after for the last couple years.

kevin.rivers
Jul 4, 2006, 12:06 PM
Well if that's the case perhaps a new chip as some have mentioned?
Or as Longofest said single dual-core Conroe and dual dual-core Woodcrest..

There won't be a new chip. That wouldn't be cost effective for Intel, to design a chip specifically for Apple.

As others have stated, we may see a single Conroe on the low end, and Dual Woodcrests in the top end.

This will also keep the Mac Pro line simple, as hopefully there would only be these 2 configurations. But there may be a middle config as there is now.

lonepilgrim
Jul 4, 2006, 12:07 PM
-MacBook Pro Core Duo 2Ghz/2GB RAM/100GB
Finally, you have (sensibly) agreed to call your notebook by its actual name!

SiliconAddict
Jul 4, 2006, 12:08 PM
Finally, you have (sensibly) agreed to call your notebook by its actual name!


No. I just forgot to change it when I removed the * note below it. :p

I think I changed that back in early March.

Eraserhead
Jul 4, 2006, 12:11 PM
I know cars are in a completely different boat than computers, but I think Apple should stick to its beautiful designs and only make minor changes to the models' formfactors like Porsche would do. If you've got a great thing, why completely obliterate it?

The should do a redesign (at least to the 15" model) to give easy access to RAM/HD like the MB, to add Firewire 800 to the 15", to add an extra USB port to the 15", also to change the case design to allow better cooling, don't the 2.16Ghz MBP's step down to 2Ghz very, very, fast?

All of that would need a re-design, here's hoping for one for Merom.

The Mac Pro should have more internal drives and stuff I'd be surprised if that wasn't changed.

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 12:13 PM
There won't be a new chip. That wouldn't be cost effective for Intel, to design a chip specifically for Apple.

As others have stated, we may see a single Conroe on the low end, and Dual Woodcrests in the top end.

This will also keep the Mac Pro line simple, as hopefully there would only be these 2 configurations. But there may be a middle config as there is now.

I disagree with the assumption that Intel is wanting to make the new MacPro insides conform to established ideals for the sake of money..

It is in the best interest of Intel to introduce the future of computing with Apple.The initial cost/profit ratio may well be at a loss for a while but Intel and Apple both want to introduce the new MacPro as the best computer in the world.Even if it means losing money until the rest of the computing world catches up and realizes they need to start making better computers.

This is MacRumors..We all have opinions.:)

nagromme
Jul 4, 2006, 12:13 PM
I vote for no handles (useful but bulky), still minimalist, still aluminum, with a high-gloss faceplate or side-plates in black :)

The MacBook Pros could become black inside, but stay aluminum outside (which is so durable my 3-year-old PowerBook still looks like new).

I can see four possible colors that could be part of new designs without violating Apple minimalism:

* Metallic
* White
* Black
* Clear

(And for consumers, real "colors," but not for pro machines. No offense to owners of G3 Smurf Towers.)

Realistically I expect a more minor design shift for the pro models--still all-aluminum. The MacBooks especially might change only in small ways (until you look inside).

localghost
Jul 4, 2006, 12:15 PM
Did it ever occur to you that some of us might not have a crap load of space for such a huge system? I actually have several computers under my desk all of which serve a purpose. All if which can't be replaced with a single system. Move beyond just your narrow view of the world and see that there is a reason why companies are shipping thinline desktops.

i live/eat/sleep in a really small studio with 4 computers (mac pro would be number 5) but i still would not care. i think it's pathetic that the biggest mac has space for 2 HDDs only. don't tell me about external SATA enclosures - they'll cost you an arm and a leg if you need a quiet one. if you need a fast GPU you'll want some space for cooling, if you don't get an xserve or an imac.

Core Trio
Jul 4, 2006, 12:19 PM
Unless Intel/Apple designed a completely different MB:)


You dont seem to understand what everyone is saying. Conroe cannot be set up in dual processor configurations. thats the bottom line.

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 12:20 PM
conroe cannot be run SMP, seriously, can this finally be accepted as common knowledge conroe ? SMP SMP is required to run more than one physical chip and conroe is one chip with two cores...
Please, can't it be accepted as common knowledge that you must have an SMP operating system to run a dual-core chip - even the current Yonah in the iMacIntel and MacIntelBooks?

An SMP operating system is required to control and schedule the two CPUs in a dual-core package. Without an SMP operating system, the chip wouldn't run both cores.

conroe and woodcrest use the exact same cores just conroe has SMP disabled.
Conroe DOES have SMP enabled !!

What Conroe does not have is the cache-coherency and inter-socket communications capability needed to coordinate memory and bus access between chips in two independent sockets. And it isn't so much "disabled" as it is "not enabled" - the signals aren't brought out to the pins.

(ps: and it might be a bit of a leap to say "exact same" - I used "basically the same" because in the past Intel has had real differences in silicon between Xeon and Pentium chips.)

SiliconAddict
Jul 4, 2006, 12:21 PM
I vote for no handles (useful but bulky), still minimalist, still aluminum, with a high-gloss faceplate or side-plates in black :)



Maybe magnetic handles using Neodymium magnets?

NEW FROM APPLE. The oS*** carrying systm. Erase your system and move it all in one easy action!

azzurri000
Jul 4, 2006, 12:24 PM
The should do a redesign (at least to the 15" model) to give easy access to RAM/HD like the MB, to add Firewire 800 to the 15", to add an extra USB port to the 15", also to change the case design to allow better cooling, don't the 2.16Ghz MBP's step down to 2Ghz very, very, fast?

All of that would need a re-design, here's hoping for one for Merom.

The Mac Pro should have more internal drives and stuff I'd be surprised if that wasn't changed.


Yeah, I agree. It's a real shame they lost the dual layer on the 15" when the MacBook Pro was introduced. It's my belief that a new model should warrant improvement, and should not be a step behind what was available before.

That said, they did manage to make it a lot thinner, and I can't see the next MBP model being larger... even if those extra features would be great.

ktlx
Jul 4, 2006, 12:27 PM
What Conroe does not have is the cache-coherency and inter-socket communications capability needed to coordinate memory and bus access between chips in two independent sockets. And it isn't so much "disabled" as it is "not enabled" - the signals aren't brought out to the pins.
Give it up, Aiden. If people haven't gotten through their heads by now, they never will. At this point, I'm convinced that Peace is intentionally being obtuse just to piss you off. :p

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 12:29 PM
Give it up, Aiden. If people haven't gotten through their heads by now, they never will. At this point, I'm convinced that Peace is intentionally being obtuse just to piss you off. :p


Thats partially true.I do enjoy watching Aiden go at it :D

azzurri000
Jul 4, 2006, 12:31 PM
Thats partially true.I do enjoy watching Aiden go at it :D


Someone named "Peace" intentionally making people upset.... I need to take a minute to get my head around that.

p0intblank
Jul 4, 2006, 12:31 PM
While I already love the design of the Power Mac G5, a new one is always good. I just can't imagine what it will look like... the same goes for the MacBook Pro. They're both already so pretty! :p

Glen Quagmire
Jul 4, 2006, 12:31 PM
I disagree with the assumption that Intel is wanting to make the new MacPro insides conform to established ideals for the sake of money..

It is in the best interest of Intel to introduce the future of computing with Apple.The initial cost/profit ratio may well be at a loss for a while but Intel and Apple both want to introduce the new MacPro as the best computer in the world.Even if it means losing money until the rest of the computing world catches up and realizes they need to start making better computers.

This is MacRumors..We all have opinions.:)

Apple is just another customer for Intel. They (Intel) sell more chips to Dell and others. Why would Apple get special treatment? Intel didn't partner with Apple to spend billions on one-off bits and pieces for a single customer. Intel is partnering with Apple to make money.

There are no other chips. Conroe (or a single Woodcrest) will go in a Mac Pro with one chip. Woodcrest will go in a Mac Pro with two chips. Conroe cannot be run in a dual chip configuration. There are no other CPUs out there that Apple can use at the present time. The Mac Pro will run a standard Intel chipset with a run of the mill Intel-designed motherboard with a couple of tweaks to allow it to ensure it's Apple hardware and to allow OS X to run - such as EFI firmware.

Apple may be special to you. In computing terms, it's just another manufacturer, with a tiny market share.

guzhogi
Jul 4, 2006, 12:31 PM
Something I'd like to see is more drive bays like a regular PC ATX case. If you want to had a new CD/DVD drive, just remove the front cover and pop the drive in. No need for a special face plate. I have a beige Power Mac G3 desktop. I installed an Iomega zip drive, but it looks like crap b/c Apple made a special face plate for it, whic I can't even find on eBay. I know, Apple likes being stylish, but do it w/ the rest of the case! Leave the external drive bays alone!

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 12:33 PM
At this point, I'm convinced that Peace is intentionally being obtuse just to piss you off. :p
:) ... but I was replying to Hector, not Piece...

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 12:34 PM
Apple is just another customer for Intel. They (Intel) sell more chips to Dell and others. Why would Apple get special treatment? Intel didn't partner with Apple to spend billions on one-off bits and pieces for a single customer. Intel is partnering with Apple to make money.

There are no other chips. Conroe (or a single Woodcrest) will go in a Mac Pro with one chip. Woodcrest will go in a Mac Pro with two chips. Conroe cannot be run in a dual chip configuration. There are no other CPUs out there that Apple can use at the present time. The Mac Pro will run a standard Intel chipset with a run of the mill Intel-designed motherboard with a couple of tweaks to allow it to ensure it's Apple hardware and to allow OS X to run - such as EFI firmware.

Apple may be special to you. In computing terms, it's just another manufacturer, with a tiny market share.


A year ago people said Apple would never use Intel chips.
6 months ago people said Apple would never allow Windows to run on a Mac.

Whats next ?

KindredMAC
Jul 4, 2006, 12:38 PM
What a bunch of babies in this thread!
"Conroe can't support 2 processors."
"Yes it can!"
"No it can't!
"It'll have to be WoodCrest!"
"Na-Uh"
"Uh-Huh"
"I can't fit a G5 in my *****hole apartment"
"Yes you can"
"No I can't"
"Uh-Huh"
"Na-Uh"
"Poo Poo Head!"
"Na-Uh!"
"Uh-Huh!"
"Yeah well your mom is!"

This has turned pathetic....

jaw04005
Jul 4, 2006, 12:43 PM
I vote for no handles (useful but bulky), still minimalist, still aluminum, with a high-gloss faceplate or side-plates in black :)

Ohh, you can bet that it will have handles. I think that's one of Steve's things. During the G5 launch, he kept saying how Apple was the only company that shipped handles on their computers.

iGary
Jul 4, 2006, 12:45 PM
What a bunch of babies in this thread!
"Conroe can't support 2 processors."
"Yes it can!"
"No it can't!
"It'll have to be WoodCrest!"
"Na-Uh"
"Uh-Huh"
"I can't fit a G5 in my *****hole apartment"
"Yes you can"
"No I can't"
"Uh-Huh"
"Na-Uh"
"Poo Poo Head!"
"Na-Uh!"
"Uh-Huh!"
"Yeah well your mom is!"

This always happens. Glad I am not the only one who sees it. It's pretty pathetic.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 12:46 PM
Please, can't it be accepted as common knowledge that you must have an SMP operating system to run a dual-core chip - even the current Yonah in the iMacIntel and MacIntelBooks?

An SMP operating system is required to control and schedule the two CPUs in a dual-core package. Without an SMP operating system, the chip wouldn't run both cores.


Conroe DOES have SMP enabled !!

What Conroe does not have is the cache-coherency and inter-socket communications capability needed to coordinate memory and bus access between chips in two independent sockets. And it isn't so much "disabled" as it is "not enabled" - the signals aren't brought out to the pins.

(ps: and it might be a bit of a leap to say "exact same" - I used "basically the same" because in the past Intel has had real differences in silicon between Xeon and Pentium chips.)

the only current OS that does not support multiple cpu's is windows XP home. anyway when i said SMP i mean on the physical motherboard level, disabled = not enabled, weather the circuitry is lobbed off on the core itself with a laser (this has been done on many cores) or the pins are simply not used thier is no difference.


as for the cores they are the exact same core made on the same silicone disks, likely xeons go in the middle and core2duo's around the edge, even with the p4 xeon some features were disabled on the P4 and some on the xeon, product differentiation makes more money for intel but it costs more to make different physical cores thus they make the same cores which can do everything and lob bits off.

kevin.rivers
Jul 4, 2006, 12:46 PM
A year ago people said Apple would never use Intel chips.
6 months ago people said Apple would never allow Windows to run on a Mac.

Whats next ?

Intel won't be making an Intel chip for Apple. It won't harm or cost Apple more to have Conroe's as well as Woodcrest's. If that is the case, they would most obviously use Woodcrest exclusively for the Mac Pro.

In which case, we may see the Conroe in the iMac.

Unless Intel planned on making one chip for the entire Apple line. We won't be seeing an exclusive chip being produced by Intel. And most assuredly they won't be making an exclusive chip for one product in the Apple line.

They wouldn't do it for Dell, and they wouldn't do it for Apple.

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 12:46 PM
This always happens. Glad I am not the only one who sees it. It's pretty pathetic.

No it's not! :p

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 12:46 PM
Topic has strayed waaaaayyyy to far off...
You used the word "to" instead of "too" in your title.

mknawabi
Jul 4, 2006, 12:51 PM
Quad might mean dual dual core processors.

If im not mistaken, youre going to need woodcrest to do that. Intel doesnt want to design a dual core conroe board, or make their conroe chips MP compatible. Thats what they designed xeon for.

Evangelion
Jul 4, 2006, 12:51 PM
Conroe DOES have SMP enabled !!

When people talk of "SMP" in this context they are referring to multi-socket setups. And that is something Conroe does NOT do.

SWC
Jul 4, 2006, 12:51 PM
Apple is just another customer for Intel. They (Intel) sell more chips to Dell and others. Why would Apple get special treatment? Intel didn't partner with Apple to spend billions on one-off bits and pieces for a single customer. Intel is partnering with Apple to make money.


Apple is special to intel now. They are they ONLY major manufacturer to be intel exclusive now. Dell has added AMD to their servers and their desktops in August. Apple is I beleive the 3rd or 4th largest computer manufacturer. When you are that high on the list and you stick with only 1 chip maker you'll have some pull. Why do you thnk Dell was always the first to ship computers with new intel processors why other manufacturers had to wait another week or two if not more. Intel allocated them inventory first. If intel doesn't give apple what they want they can (and probably will, look at IBM) jump ship to AMD and they won't split their product line. Don't be surprised if you don't see intel soc's in ipods in the next few years as well. I'm not saying intel is going to create a special processor for apple just that Apple has some pull in that relationship.

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 12:51 PM
only windows XP home does not support multiple cpu's
It does when the two CPUs are in the same socket.

It doesn't support multiple sockets. It's a licensing issue, not a code issue. All versions of XP are SMP-capable, but XP Home only runs SMP with dual-core single socket chips.

anyway when i said SMP i mean on the physical motherboard level.
That's not how the industry uses the acronym....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetric_multiprocessing
"The most popular entry-level SMP systems use the x86 instruction set architecture and are based on Intel’s Xeon, Pentium D and Core Duo processors or AMD’s Athlon64 X2 or Opteron 200 series processors."

TangoCharlie
Jul 4, 2006, 12:53 PM
Does quad therefore imply woodcrest rather than conroe?

Indeed.

This is what makes me think that ThinkSecret is simply posting "wishful thinking" (wild guesses) rather than industry sources.

I can't see Apple doing a Core 2 Duo/Extreme (Conroe) _and_ a Xeon 5100 (Woodcrest) Mac Pro.... it's got to be Xeon all the way. The G5 was always pitched at the top of the PC workstation market, and I don't see why the
Mac Pro should do otherwise.

No, Apple will release a Xeon 5100 based Mac Pros and XServes (they'll keep that name), and upgrade the iMac to Merom or Conroe. MBP will get the Merom upgrade too.

Just so you know... everything I've stated is pure guess work and wishful thinking ;-)

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 12:53 PM
When people talk of "SMP" in this context...
You mean "When people misuse the term 'SMP' in this context", right?

MacsAttack
Jul 4, 2006, 12:56 PM
1. I hope they will use some of the real estate that the 15 and 17 inch form factors provide to put a full size keyboard on the revised MacBook Pro. I was looking at one two days ago and the pokey little return key was just aweful. Put me right off buying a 17 inch rig.

2. Mac Pro - Case needs to be tall enough to act as a stand for my Mac Mini beside my desk.

3 - Four cores have to be Xeon (Woodcrest) cpus. Even a two core system needs to use Xeon (Woodcrest) to get the faster memory speeds that would set the Pro range apart from the consumer systems when they put Conroes into the iMacs.

MacSlut
Jul 4, 2006, 12:56 PM
I hope the new Mac Pro is MUCH larger. The one reason why I didn't upgrade my Dual G4 to a Dual G5 is that it would've been a downgrade in some aspects. It would've been only slightly faster, but only one DVD burner and 2 hard drives as opposed to 2 DVD burners and 4 hard drives.

I could understand having a mini-tower configuration for those of you who want more than a mini but have space constraints, but it really sucks for some of us who need the extra capacity.

I'd also really like to see it in a drive/sled set up so replacing drives can be done really easily (ideally without powering down).

Needless to say, I have a lot of Pr0n.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 12:57 PM
It does when the two CPUs are in the same socket.

It doesn't support multiple sockets. It's a licensing issue, not a code issue. All versions of XP are SMP-capable, but XP Home only runs SMP with dual-core single socket chips.


That's not how the industry uses the acronym....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetric_multiprocessing
"The most popular entry-level SMP systems use the x86 instruction set architecture and are based on Intel’s Xeon, Pentium D and Core Duo processors or AMD’s Athlon64 X2 or Opteron 200 series processors."

I'm sorry I forced you and others to be so confused by my blindingly obvious use of the terminology.

heck while making the post i made a mental note of "well single dual core cpu's do use smp in the silicon, well i guess that does not count in this context and people will see through it"

the point is for a quad you need woodcrest it cant be done with conroe which has been said about a billion times in this thread.

Evangelion
Jul 4, 2006, 01:03 PM
You mean "When people misuse the term 'SMP' in this context", right?

Words evolve. When people talk of "SMP", they are talking about two processors. It just happens that processors these days have two (or more) cores in them, but the number of physical CPU's might still be just one. Whereas in the past you needed two physical CPU's to have two processing-cores, but these days you get it with just one CPU. But I don't really see people call their machines "SMP-machines" if they just have one multicore-CPU.

And BTW: take a chill-pill.

ktlx
Jul 4, 2006, 01:09 PM
Words evolve. When people talk of "SMP", they are talking about two processors.
Other than you and Hector, the only other people I've heard use "SMP" as the two of you are, are people who don't know what they are talking about.

Nearly everyone I know when speaking about hardware, has dropped the "SMP" nomenclature altogether since it's confusing. People I know and articles I've been reading over the past few months use "number of cores" and "number of sockets". Even the major software companies selling software to enterprises are using those terms in their licensing agreements.

SMP stands for Symmetric Multi-Processing and means considerably more than just "more than one processor". It also describes the system architecture and how the OS views those processors. It is entirely possible, and at one time more common, to have multiple processor machines not be SMP. The definition has absolutely nothing to do with single core versus dual core and therefore can't just change because technology now allows n-core chips.

Di9it8
Jul 4, 2006, 01:19 PM
Hopefully the Mac Pro will be a bit smaller than the current G5 PowerMac.

So it could be rack mounted, maybe 4U or 6U to indicate the different machines:rolleyes:

Di9it8
Jul 4, 2006, 01:21 PM
In terms of the MacBook Pro, I'd like to see how they can improve upon perfection. I'm a little nervous as to how it will look... but I guess each successive PowerBook revision looked snazzier than the one before it.
What happens if it is a detachable screen configuration?:eek:

azzurri000
Jul 4, 2006, 01:25 PM
What happens if it is a detachable screen configuration?:eek:

I'd rather see it an inch thicker ! Ick.

Josias
Jul 4, 2006, 01:30 PM
Silver (http://img.zol.com.cn/article/3/457/ligPKqO3rwvw.jpg)?

phatpat88
Jul 4, 2006, 01:43 PM
I hope apple will have 4 SATA II Drive bays - so one can have a 1 TB Mirror RAID!! :)

Add to that MINIMUM: 4 PCI-e slots, 2 FW 400 2 FW 800, 4 USB, Optical & Ana. Audio, Dual Gig-E,

What about Dual Optical Drives - I certainly miss that from G4s - but how would it be instituted design-wise??

And make sure there are still 8 RAM slots.

Jbook
Jul 4, 2006, 01:51 PM
Make this the biggest fastest hottest most power hungry peice of machinery you can. Hell, I dont care if it runs on gasoline, make it a friggen beast...

DakotaGuy
Jul 4, 2006, 01:59 PM
A year ago people said Apple would never use Intel chips.
6 months ago people said Apple would never allow Windows to run on a Mac.

Whats next ?

Mac OSX running on a PC out of the box.

Hey you asked!:D

CmdrLaForge
Jul 4, 2006, 02:00 PM
Does quad therefore imply woodcrest rather than conroe?

Yes °

I am so happy about the new enclosure!!!!

matticus008
Jul 4, 2006, 02:05 PM
Silver (http://img.zol.com.cn/article/3/457/ligPKqO3rwvw.jpg)?
Sure. Enter complaints of fingerprints, scratches, and endless tarnishing.

iBunny
Jul 4, 2006, 02:09 PM
I just want something designed the same, but glossic white like the iMac's instead of the brushed alluminum. I would like to see Dual 3.0GHz Woodcrest's (4 Cores Total) and I would be happy. Ans support for 16GB of FB DIMM 667

Mal
Jul 4, 2006, 02:10 PM
Silver (http://img.zol.com.cn/article/3/457/ligPKqO3rwvw.jpg)?

That's the most hideous design I've ever seen. It's about as far from Apple design as you can get.

jW

extraextra
Jul 4, 2006, 02:10 PM
Sure. Enter complaints of fingerprints, scratches, and endless tarnishing.

If it is made out of anodized aluminum, that would not be a problem? I have an iPod mini which has none of the above!

blufire
Jul 4, 2006, 02:22 PM
Make this the biggest fastest hottest most power hungry peice of machinery you can. Hell, I dont care if it runs on gasoline, make it a friggen beast...

o_O" in these days of $3+/gallon? Cooling would be suckage, and if you thought the MDD was bad with noise...

hehe, it's a novel idea though. "What are you doing this weekend?" "I gotta change the spark plugs and degrease the engine in my Quad 12GHz Freon-Cooled Mac Pro Beast."

Lepton
Jul 4, 2006, 02:26 PM
I think the new Pro case will look more like a high end 7.1 channel stereo receiver than anything else.

thogs_cave
Jul 4, 2006, 02:35 PM
I'd like to see those horrible silver keys go away for starters. Most of the existing MacBook Pro enclosure is very nice but I've detested the silver keys ever since I saw them in real life (they actually looked OK in the pictures). I'm just gutted that I'm going to have to wait longer for the laptop that I've been lusting after for the last couple years.

As long as the keys are light-colored. It's one reason I bought my MacBook - I have a retinal disease, and I cannot see black keyboards. I never could use my wife's TiBook....

thogs_cave
Jul 4, 2006, 02:46 PM
This always happens. Glad I am not the only one who sees it. It's pretty pathetic.

Well, what do you expect? With the availability of hardware and software that meets pretty much every need (as well as a few needs we didn't know we had), good design, and reasonable prices people are left bitching about the insignificant things.

For the record:

A) I like my G5's case. The handles are nice. It still looks good to me after almost three years.

B) Conroe, Woodcrest, FooBarBaz: WHO CARES? Look, it's all fast enough now. Hell, I don't have time to learn about the hardware I have before I'm suddenly needing to "upgrade".

Gah! What did we ever do before computers came along to give us a reason to gripe about nothing?

Demoman
Jul 4, 2006, 02:52 PM
Did it ever occur to you that some of us might not have a crap load of space for such a huge system? I actually have several computers under my desk all of which serve a purpose. All if which can't be replaced with a single system. Move beyond just your narrow view of the world and see that there is a reason why companies are shipping thinline desktops.

Maybe you should take your own advice about 'narrow view of the world'. You can buy a blade configuration if you want. I have two PM's under my desk and will soon have a 3rd. The amount of extra space they occupy, compared to Dell 380 is of little consequence. For me, I would not care if they stayed the same, but I am not at all concerned if they change either. Many have posted here that size is an issue for them. Fine, if Apple can appeal to larger market by making them smaller/lighter, then that is good.

iJaz
Jul 4, 2006, 02:55 PM
Well, what do you expect? With the availability of hardware and software that meets pretty much every need (as well as a few needs we didn't know we had), good design, and reasonable prices people are left bitching about the insignificant things.

For the record:

A) I like my G5's case. The handles are nice. It still looks good to me after almost three years.

B) Conroe, Woodcrest, FooBarBaz: WHO CARES? Look, it's all fast enough now. Hell, I don't have time to learn about the hardware I have before I'm suddenly needing to "upgrade".

Gah! What did we ever do before computers came along to give us a reason to gripe about nothing?

Good post!
A bit smaller case wouldn't hurt though.

twitch
Jul 4, 2006, 02:55 PM
In terms of the MacBook Pro, I'd like to see how they can improve upon perfection. I'm a little nervous as to how it will look... but I guess each successive PowerBook revision looked snazzier than the one before it.


Well, one idea might be to give the processor room to cool... I'm getting tired of the blatent attempts to make me sterile by using my leg as the only decent heat sink. My G4 was just as bad.

Sure the unit is pretty, but if they would cool it a little better they'd sure cut down on support issues for cooked components. I vote for a MBP that isn't all form over function.

technicolor
Jul 4, 2006, 02:59 PM
Ohhh... I guess I am going to wait to buy a new MBP with my student discount.

thegreatluke
Jul 4, 2006, 03:09 PM
I have an uneasy feeling in my stomach that Apple will switch its already-overheating Pro line to black anodized aluminum.

Demoman
Jul 4, 2006, 03:09 PM
If I'm not mistaken anondizing results in an extremely hard surface which is quite difficult to scratch. In fact, I think it is harder to scratch than un-anondized aluminum. So...bring it on!!! Afteral the iPod mini's were anodized and I don't recall scratching complaints. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

That is partially true. Standard anodizing is clear until a color tint is added. The tint can be scratched, sometimes quite easily. The purpose of anodizing is to prevent the aluminum from oxidizing. Even though the tint is scratched, and looks bad, the protective layer may be fine. There is also a 'hard coat' anodize. This comes out as a dark grey color and almost seems to be a painted surface. It does stand-up to wear pretty well as sulfuric acid attacks the surface of the metal and forms the protective shell. It has been seven years since I left aerospace, but at the time hard coat was rather expensive.

emotion
Jul 4, 2006, 03:15 PM
That is partially true. Standard anodizing is clear until a color tint is added. The tint can be scratched, sometimes quite easily. The purpose of anodizing is to prevent the aluminum from oxidizing. Even though the tint is scratched, and looks bad, the protective layer may be fine. There is also a 'hard coat' anodize. This comes out as a dark grey color and almost seems to be a painted surface. It does stand-up to wear pretty well as sulfuric acid attacks the surface of the metal and forms the protective shell. It has been seven years since I left aerospace, but at the time hard coat was rather expensive.


The black anodizing on my mtb stuff is probably tough enough for a laptop thinking about it. Apple would have to make it good quality though which might cost.

Digitalclips
Jul 4, 2006, 03:21 PM
Has any one mentioned the new Mac must surely support High Definition media reading and burning! Maybe a Blu-Ray / HD DVD dual capability...? :)

Hey is there a prize for being the 100th post?

freeny
Jul 4, 2006, 03:26 PM
I have a feeling these changes will be very subtle and almost unnoticeable.

matticus008
Jul 4, 2006, 03:28 PM
If it is made out of anodized aluminum, that would not be a problem? I have an iPod mini which has none of the above!
Well, if it's anodized aluminum, then it's not silver. The link was to a polished silver (as in 'Ag') PowerBook design.

Digitalclips
Jul 4, 2006, 03:30 PM
Here is a design idea for the new Mac .. retro look

see attached

sam10685
Jul 4, 2006, 03:35 PM
Quad might mean dual dual core processors.

i think quad implies dual dual single core processors.

technicolor
Jul 4, 2006, 03:37 PM
Make this the biggest fastest hottest most power hungry peice of machinery you can. Hell, I dont care if it runs on gasoline, make it a friggen beast...
This is the funniest thing Ive read on this site to date!

sam10685
Jul 4, 2006, 03:39 PM
I'd rather see it an inch thicker ! Ick.

you are both wrong. it will be an inch thinner than it already is. thus, sucking it out of existance only to be replaced by-- something.

AlmostThere
Jul 4, 2006, 03:44 PM
I hope the MacBook Pros get a significant revamp. The last thing I want my Merom MPB to look like is an ageing and outdated PowerBook.

Collin973
Jul 4, 2006, 03:48 PM
Hmm...I don't reallty wanna see a new enclosure for the mac book pro...I love the silver look to it. I definitely don't wanna see it black or white...or made out of plastic. The one thing i absolutley love about my aluminum powerbook, is the solid feel of it when i carry it around. I use to have a 17" dell laptop and it was soooo flimsy. I couldn't take it anywhere, but these aluminum laptops are rigid and tough. A plastic casing would sadden me soooo much. Keep the aluminum apple, please!!!

Collin973
Jul 4, 2006, 03:52 PM
Silver (http://img.zol.com.cn/article/3/457/ligPKqO3rwvw.jpg)?

Who sent that in to "Pimp my Lappy"....in theory or in pictures...looks amazing....in real life...that design would absolutley blow...I hate shinny silver things...like the back of the ipod....gets soooo smudgy!!

blufire
Jul 4, 2006, 04:05 PM
Hmm...I don't reallty wanna see a new enclosure for the mac book pro...I love the silver look to it. I definitely don't wanna see it black or white...or made out of plastic. The one thing i absolutley love about my aluminum powerbook, is the solid feel of it when i carry it around. I use to have a 17" dell laptop and it was soooo flimsy. I couldn't take it anywhere, but these aluminum laptops are rigid and tough. A plastic casing would sadden me soooo much. Keep the aluminum apple, please!!!

The MacBook's plastic enclosure is impressively stiff though. :) They did a nice job on that... making it significantly thinner than the iBook, while increasing its stiffness to be about on par with the MacBooks. A plastic doesn't necessarily make the computer flexible.

That said, there's no equal to the solid feel of the aluminum PowerBook & MacBook Pro. :)

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 04:06 PM
Another good reason to wait for Merom. I expect they will make it easy to upgrade the HD like they did with the new MacBook design although it is hard to understand how they could improve on the MacBook Pro design as it appears to me to be already perfect - save for the poor HD upgrade process. I do hope they retain the Aluminum body. :)

uv23
Jul 4, 2006, 04:11 PM
As mentioned above, I think the MBP case will be quite similar to the current model, but with easy access to HD and ram a la MacBook. Don't expect anything too revolutionary.

Still dreaming of my Merom 13" MBP...

RichP
Jul 4, 2006, 04:15 PM
Although it looks the same, the MBP is a completely new "design" compared to the PBs before it. It isnt even like the imacs where the internals are the only change. I am not sure how many machines apple has to produce to cover the tooling cost, but I cant believe the MBP is only going to have a 9 month lifespan in its current config.

In terms of macpro, Aiden is on track, and I dont understand why everyone is in the tizzy about using Conroe in the low end. They will be Woodcrest, throughout the line. Keep in mind that these are, and still will be, the top, most expensive machines Apple produces. There is no reason to believe that the new "Quad" wont be at least 3300, perhaps even 100 or so more. And the low end machines could start over 2K, which is reasonable for a single Woodcrest machine (you can go order a Dell 2x Xeon machine and they are not THAT expensive)

Its right in line apples workstation machines get workstation processors!:D

macidiot
Jul 4, 2006, 04:16 PM
Messing with the MBP enclosure design is a bad move.

why? the current one sucks.

To clarify: the current mbp runs hot enough to cook on. Or how about a num pad on the 17"? Or how about an iSight that is moveable and works in lower light conditions?

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 04:19 PM
Does quad therefore imply woodcrest rather than conroe?Yes. Dual Conroes are not possible. Conroes are missing the tech to be mounted in pairs on a motherboard. They must be dual Woodies, as we like to call them, to get four cores on one motherboard.

On the enclosure front, I'm thinking Black would be beautiful.

Dont Hurt Me
Jul 4, 2006, 04:23 PM
Ill be happy to see a new PowerMac enclosure. Quicksilver was so sweet to open,it took a whole second.:) I want something like that and going back to a neat design rather then the radiator look they have going now. Apple made some neat stuff with plastic. Iam expecting a brandnew enclosure that doesnt have any roots in the aluminim radiator that they needed to cool those hot G5s. This is Apple afterall.

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 04:31 PM
I know cars are in a completely different boat than computers, but I think Apple should stick to its beautiful designs and only make minor changes to the models' formfactors like Porsche would do. If you've got a great thing, why completely obliterate it?In terms of the MacBook Pro, I'd like to see how they can improve upon perfection. I'm a little nervous as to how it will look... but I guess each successive PowerBook revision looked snazzier than the one before it.I think BLACK Anodized Aluminum would be the next logical advancement. I would find that more attractive than the current look. Black is the new IN (non) color. Just look at Steve's Turtlenecks, the success of the Black iPod and the Black MacBooks to see where the line is going. ;)

sonnys
Jul 4, 2006, 04:36 PM
For economies of scale, it makes sense to transition all Power Macs and XServes to Woodcrest. It makes no sense to put a Conroe into a Power Mac when they can go all Woodcrest, thereby increasing volume shipments and bringing down the overall cost for each chip. If I were Apple, I certainly wouldn't split the line with a Conroe in the low end Power Mac and Woodcrests in the higher end -- it creates a marketing dilemma that would most likely result in end user confusion.

This will also give them an opportunity to distinguish processors between the "pro" and consumer lines. What is the official name of the Woodcrest -- is it a "Core 2 Duo" brand?

killr_b
Jul 4, 2006, 04:46 PM
I was thinking (not a good sign) that the G5 was the beast of the computer world, and the PC industry's top end is mostly for gamers (yeah it is!) so a logical step might be to have the power mac replacements and a lesser tower that is about the same form factor.

For example, processing power is required for "pro" apps, eluding to woodcrest. Not to mention they have to beat out the current quad.
But graphics power is required to compete with PC specs...

Consumers read lables, and gamers don't need dual woodcrests.

I think there will be a Core 2 duo extreme tower and a dual woodcrest tower. Maybe a 44" ACD too. Yeeeaaahhhh.

Either way, I wanted a G5 quad but held out for Intel. I got 10 g's on a new one now! Quad processor, dual core woodcrest! I want the Octo!

HiRez
Jul 4, 2006, 04:47 PM
Oooh I hope they have at least ten fans. Because after experienced the thrill of nine, nothing less than ten will do when I upgrade.

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 04:48 PM
For economies of scale, it makes sense to transition all Power Macs and XServes to Woodcrest. It makes no sense to put a Conroe into a Power Mac when they can go all Woodcrest, thereby increasing volume shipments and bringing down the overall cost for each chip. If I were Apple, I certainly wouldn't split the line with a Conroe in the low end Power Mac and Woodcrests in the higher end -- it creates a marketing dilemma that would most likely result in end user confusion.

This will also give them an opportunity to distinguish processors between the "pro" and consumer lines. What is the official name of the Woodcrest -- is it a "Core 2 Duo" brand?You are clearly in a deluded state as to the difference between Conroe and Woody processors - IE NONE save Dual Socket Capability in Woody and not in Conroe. You are trying to find other differences that do not exist. There is not the logic you use to justify using Woodies for anything other than Quads. :rolleyes: PLUS:The problem with this is that the Conroe CPU, supporting chipsets and memory are all the commodity parts and have significant cost savings over a single socket Xeon system. The Woodcrest Xeons use a lower volume chipset and FB-DIMMs compared to Conroe which should have a high volume chipset in the P965 series and use much cheaper DDR2 DIMMs. Since the Woodcrest chipset is limited to 667Mhz speeds while the Conroe P965 chipset can support 800Mhz speeds, it's even possible the Conroe could be faster than an equivalently clocked Woodcrest.

I'd be curious to see if Apple even designs and builds the motherboards any more. I'd be willing to bet Apple could create a case design that accepts either an Intel-designed Conroe or an Intel-designed Xeon motherboard. If not Intel, there are like six or seven Taiwanese motherboard manufacturers with tons of experience building Intel-based motherboards who I'm sure would design and manufacture them for Apple.

The dual dual is always going to be low volume compared to their single socket, dual core offerings, it makes no sense to punish your lower end offerings by forcing the unnecessary expense of Woodcrests and FB-DIMMs.

21stcenturykid
Jul 4, 2006, 04:50 PM
I hope Apple dont change the MBP too much cos i love it as it is and want one for Uni in september!

blufire
Jul 4, 2006, 04:54 PM
What is the official name of the Woodcrest -- is it a "Core 2 Duo" brand?

Woodcrest is the Xeon 5100 series (server-targeted processors). Only Merom and Conroe are Core 2 Duo.

ktlx
Jul 4, 2006, 04:59 PM
For economies of scale, it makes sense to transition all Power Macs and XServes to Woodcrest. It makes no sense to put a Conroe into a Power Mac when they can go all Woodcrest, thereby increasing volume shipments and bringing down the overall cost for each chip.
The problem with this is that the Conroe CPU, supporting chipsets and memory are all the commodity parts and have significant cost savings over a single socket Xeon system. The Woodcrest Xeons use a lower volume chipset and FB-DIMMs compared to Conroe which should have a high volume chipset in the P965 series and use much cheaper DDR2 DIMMs. Since the Woodcrest chipset is limited to 667Mhz speeds while the Conroe P965 chipset can support 800Mhz speeds, it's even possible the Conroe could be faster than an equivalently clocked Woodcrest.

I'd be curious to see if Apple even designs and builds the motherboards any more. I'd be willing to bet Apple could create a case design that accepts either an Intel-designed Conroe or an Intel-designed Xeon motherboard. If not Intel, there are like six or seven Taiwanese motherboard manufacturers with tons of experience building Intel-based motherboards who I'm sure would design and manufacture them for Apple.

The dual dual is always going to be low volume compared to their single socket, dual core offerings, it makes no sense to punish your lower end offerings by forcing the unnecessary expense of Woodcrests and FB-DIMMs.

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 05:12 PM
The problem with this is that the Conroe CPU, supporting chipsets and memory are all the commodity parts and have significant cost savings over a single socket Xeon system. The Woodcrest Xeons use a lower volume chipset and FB-DIMMs compared to Conroe which should have a high volume chipset in the P965 series and use much cheaper DDR2 DIMMs... The dual dual is always going to be low volume compared to their single socket, dual core offerings, it makes no sense to punish your lower end offerings by forcing the unnecessary expense of Woodcrests and FB-DIMMs.Here is a 13 month old full explanation of what FB-DIMMS are: Fully Buffered DIMM Memory (http://www.simmtester.com/page/news/showpubnews.asp?num=113). They are much more expensive than Conroe DDR2 RAM and a prime reason you will not be seeing any single processor Core 2 Duo Woodies in Apple's line but rather Conroe will perform that role.

Then early next year Quad Conroes (Kentsfield) will come to market and pairs of Quad Woodies (Clovertown & Tigerton) will serve us 8 core Mac Pros. I am hoping we'll see four mobile cores in MacBook Pros by early 2008 at the latest.

Sometimes I get the feeling that almost no one here reads anyone else's posts. This stuff has been gone over time and again for the last six months of posts here.

I could not find an explanation for FB-DIMMs in any of the MacRumors Guides. :eek:

steve_hill4
Jul 4, 2006, 05:16 PM
I think BLACK Anodized Aluminum would be the next logical advancement. I would find that more attractive than the current look. Black is the new IN (non) color. Just look at Steve's Turtlenecks, the success of the Black iPod and the Black MacBooks to see where the line is going. ;)
I agree, even if I do still like the AlBooks, (old and new). Given the choice when buying this one, I would have still gone for silver.

As for the Mac Pro enclosure, I can see something coming also in black. I did find the G5 heavier than it could have been, but obviously this made it awesomely strong. Making it a little smaller, just as durable and lighter would get my vote. Since the rumour has it the Intel designed logic board was much smaller than the Apple designed G5, and Apple said no, must be bigger, I can't see a significant reduction in case size. Well, I can dream of some pizza box Macs returning can't I? Have to stick with my LC III for now.

Eraserhead
Jul 4, 2006, 05:20 PM
For economies of scale, it makes sense to transition all Power Macs and XServes to Woodcrest. It makes no sense to put a Conroe into a Power Mac when they can go all Woodcrest, thereby increasing volume shipments and bringing down the overall cost for each chip.
As sell over 1000 of each, as Intel is charging the same for all customers in lots of 1000, (see the relevant arstechnica article (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060526-6923.html)) it doesn't actually matter to Apple on price which they use.

gregbenj
Jul 4, 2006, 05:24 PM
Please Apple, new MacbookPro that focuses on comfort of use. Create a new design...I don't want to look down on a laptop screen anymore, it's an archaic concept. Make the laptop screen move up and down, like in this picture (only make it look like a beautiful apple product)


Continue to push the envelope!

Silentwave
Jul 4, 2006, 05:28 PM
Then early next year Quad Conroes will come to market and pairs of Quad Woodies will serve us 8 core Mac Pros.

They're called Kentsfield (quad core version of Conroe) and Clovertown (quad core version of woodcrest). According to what i've seen so far, Clovertown will have an MP capable and an MP-incapable version, so depending on what happens we might skip right to Tigerton (also quad core in the xeon lineup).

andrewm
Jul 4, 2006, 05:38 PM
I have to say that I agree in part with anyone in this thread and those in other threads who have complained about the new name (Mac Pro); it *is* harder to say due to the double-hard-consonant (a linguist could put it more eloquently) sound (C next to P).

On the other hand, it's a mighty good way to consolidate and simplify, in typical Apple fashion, the names of their machines.

MacBook (Pro)
Mac (Pro) (I wonder what the normal "Mac" would be??)

Maybe we'll even have an iMac or eMac with a Pro tacked on; the iMac seems rather too entrenched in its well-known name for Apple to change it. But who knows?

I'd like to see dual dual-core processors on the high end, so let's hope for something that supports it--Apple won't disappoint us, I'm sure.

Performa
Jul 4, 2006, 05:40 PM
Did it ever occur to you that some of us might not have a crap load of space for such a huge system? I actually have several computers under my desk all of which serve a purpose. All if which can't be replaced with a single system. Move beyond just your narrow view of the world and see that there is a reason why companies are shipping thinline desktops.



or in my case....owning a $2000 computer armoire that has a compartment that is meant to house a computer "tower" enclosure......but when the G5 came out....it was way too big to fit into that enclosure. So I have been stuck using my G4 733 mhz that BARELY fits....but still doesn't allow me to close the doors of the armoire.

Yvan256
Jul 4, 2006, 05:47 PM
Conroe... Woodcrest.... Bleh.

The Mac Pro will come with 4096 x Z80 cores running at 16MHz each. :p

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 05:58 PM
Whereas in the past you needed two physical CPU's to have two processing-cores, but these days you get it with just one CPU.
With single core chips, the terms "core", "CPU" and "processor" were pretty clear, and meant the same thing.

The core/CPU/processor had architectural state (program counter, integer and FP registers, status registers), L1/L2 cache, memory and bus interfaces - the whole works.

The "Pentium D" dual core chips are still two independent chips - each with state, cache and interfaces - just two chips glued to the same substrate and connected to the same socket. The FSB extends into the package, and the two chips communicate over the FSB just like a two-socket system.

Yet, some bean counter decided that this was 2 cores, 1 processor for the purposes of licensing. Suddenly, for no technical reason, at the licensing level "core" and "processor" no longer meant the same thing. (AFAIK, nobody really defined whether "CPU" meant "core" or "processor" in this new-speak, however.)

Now, we have two cores on a single chip, and depending on the design they might share L2/L3 cache and the bus interface. (And SMT (Hyper-Threading) chips also have unique state per logical processor...)
_________________________________________________

If we only use the terms "core" and "socket", there's little ambiguity - both the bean counters and the engineers agree on what those mean.

"CPU" and "processor" are no longer useful terms - their meaning depends on context and the application that you intend to run. If you look at a Windows dual-dual system, it will say that it has "two physical processors and four logical processors".

Similarly, the people who are misusing the term "SMP" to mean "multi-socket" are applying a term from a former reality to the current situation. The "P" in "SMP" can really only be interpreted to mean "core" in classical terminology.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 05:59 PM
This will also give them an opportunity to distinguish processors between the "pro" and consumer lines. What is the official name of the Woodcrest -- is it a "Core 2 Duo" brand?
As sell over 1000 of each, as Intel is charging the same for all customers in lots of 1000, (see the relevant arstechnica article) it doesn't actually matter to Apple on price which they use.[/QUOTE]

woodcrest is called the xeon 5100, also it's not the cpu's as such more the cost of supporting and developing two separate motherboard designs which means double the technician material and effort, it's much better to keep the same basic setup with simple modifications

I don't believe you. I am calling you a LIAR.

On what basis do you claim this as fact? Is there an ignorance flu going around? It is YOUR responsibility to provide links to relevant articles claimed to substantiate your posts not ours to find them. It matters a hell of a lot to the customer when they would have to buy FB-DIMMs to populate a Core 2 Duo Mac Pro unnecessarily. Wake up Eraserhead. You and Peace should get togther for a mind meld. :rolleyes:

no need to be a dick, which is how you are acting, when woodcrest is commonplace FB-dimm prices will tumble like they do with any type of memory that moves from niche markets (RISC workstations ect) to commonplace workstations and servers.

puuukeey
Jul 4, 2006, 06:02 PM
matts mac dreams
Detatchable panel for ALL ports so you can put the computer in the closet.
handles good but not at the cost of rackmount-ability
liquid cooled for quiet in my studios control room
no more fan problems
more usb ports
bring back drive bays
stereo analog quarter inch I/O
8 channel lightpipe I/O
hotswap bay
bright LEDs for working inside
detachable casters.
empty drive bays get ipod docks
No more pseudo zen. evolve for once
optional BluRay Drive


G5s were kind of feh in terms of appearances and layout. all that space for ventilation, only two hard drive bays, to big to rackmount.

I like the finish and I got used to the holes.

I love the idea about anodiezed metal. black maybe not. but if they did colors.

penter
Jul 4, 2006, 06:07 PM
Does this imply that soon iMacs will be released with the Intel Core 2 Duos as well? Because i have just bought a Core Duo iMac and maybe i'm still in time to return it and wait for the ones with the Intel Core 2 Duo. If so, how long of a wait would that be?

JackSYi
Jul 4, 2006, 06:11 PM
Any chance of a smaller MacBook Pro?

KindredMAC
Jul 4, 2006, 06:13 PM
You used the word "to" instead of "too" in your title.
Fixed.
Thanks.
All the stupidity in here made my mind go faster than my fingers.

iGary
Jul 4, 2006, 06:16 PM
Fixed.
Thanks.
All the stupidity in here made my mind go faster than my fingers.

Here here. It's a shame a few members ruin these PowerMac threads with their overblown egos. ;)

Sutekidane
Jul 4, 2006, 06:18 PM
Hehe, now my poor 1.83ghz macbook pro will be outdated in 2 ways.

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 06:19 PM
Regarding the pairing of Conroes:No. it has nothing to do with the motherboard. The inability to pair Conroes is in the Conroe Processors. :rolleyes:
I have tried to ignore your radically ignorant posts for some time but this one takes the cake. Your true FANBOIS condition is now fully revealed. There is nothing in your "opinion" anwhere near planet Earth. I can see now why you list your location as "Space" 'cause you are clearly a Space Case. :rolleyes:

Are you a teenager who hasn't read any of the posts here? Your posts are mindblowingly ignorant.

I'm older than you and do these things to open minds ;)

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 06:22 PM
Does this imply that soon iMacs will be released with the Intel Core 2 Duos as well? Because i have just bought a Core Duo iMac and maybe i'm still in time to return it and wait for the ones with the Intel Core 2 Duo. If so, how long of a wait would that be?
The iMac will likely be upgraded to Merom towards the end of August.

Some are predicting that a Conroe will show up in the iMac towards the end of July, but the TDP of Conroe might cause problems in the iMac enclosure - the Merom is a much better fit.

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 06:23 PM
hen woodcrest is commonplace FB-dimm prices will tumble like they do with any type of memory that moves from niche markets (RISC workstations ect) to commonplace workstations and servers.Which will take time the consumer hasn't got to wait. :rolleyes:

SPUY767
Jul 4, 2006, 06:23 PM
Dual Conroes

I'm sure that someon's already said this, but Conroe doesn't support SMP. More accurately, I should say, Dual Socket layouts. That is Woodcrest territory. But I will say this, Apple had better make this new enclosure look freaking awesome, cause the last G5 tower was a thing of legend.

On a side note, I'm writing this on a Hackintosh Pentium D 3.8 GHz dual core, and I must say, this thing positively smokes my Dual G5 for things that don't require QE or CI (Apple's nVidia Drivers don't support the 7950 GX2.) Boot time is 14 seconds if I fiddle with the BIOS, boot time from seeing the Apple logo is a little under 7 seconds, and that's to a perfectly usable desktop, takes just over 52 seconds for this machine to boot an nLited Win XP Pro. So, no matter what case this thing is in, if It's got dual woodies, as dirty as that sounds, it will be one hell of a fast machine.

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 06:25 PM
I'm sure that someon's already said this, but Conroe doesn't support SMP.
And we've also replied that Conroe (and Yonah) in fact do support SMP - they just don't support dual sockets. :mad:

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 06:25 PM
Does this imply that soon iMacs will be released with the Intel Core 2 Duos as well? Because i have just bought a Core Duo iMac and maybe i'm still in time to return it and wait for the ones with the Intel Core 2 Duo. If so, how long of a wait would that be?Yes and not long. September at the latest. Probably sooner. You have 10 days to return what you bought. If you can do it, you should definitely return the one you just bought.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 06:26 PM
Which will take time the consumer hasn't got to wait. :rolleyes:


well first off apple will secure half way reasonable prices on memory, then crucial will beat them and newegg will undercut crucial, this will all happen in less than a week.

if everyone thought like you we would all be useing pc100.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 06:28 PM
And we've also replied that Conroe (and Yonah) in fact do support SMP - they just don't support dual sockets. :mad:

please don't feed the trolls.

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 06:30 PM
I'm sure that someon's already said this, but Conroe doesn't support SMP.


Thanks for reminding me that conroe doesn't support Symmetric Multi-Processing.

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 06:32 PM
Thanks for reminding me that conroe doesn't support Symmetric Multi-Processing.No it doesn't support Dual Socket motherboards. It DOES support Symetrical Multi-Processing.

mrblah
Jul 4, 2006, 06:33 PM
I cant wait to see it, I just pray that they follow ATX standards this time.

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 06:34 PM
well first off apple will secure half way reasonable prices on memory, then crucial will beat them and newegg will undercut crucial, this will all happen in less than a week.

if everyone thought like you we would all be useing pc100.Yeah. Apple has always sold RAM for a very reasonable price. :rolleyes:

neoelectronaut
Jul 4, 2006, 06:34 PM
What's to become of the iMac? New Casing, New Processor? Down from a Dual-Core to a Single-Core?

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 06:38 PM
What's to become of the iMac? New Casing, New Processor? Down from a Dual-Core to a Single-Core?Single Core Macs are at their end with the 1.5GHz Mac Mini. Why would you think the iMac will ever go back to a single core? Even the mini will be all Core 2 Duo in the next refresh. :rolleyes:

ktlx
Jul 4, 2006, 06:41 PM
It DOES support Semetrical Multi-Processing.
It's Symmetric Multi-Processing. I don't believe it's Jewish. :D

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 06:41 PM
Yeah. Apple has always sold RAM for a very reasonable price. :rolleyes:

hence "half way" pro's can afford it and the like but consumers will buy aftermarket which will become affordable and available within a week or so of significant number of woodcrest workstations being available.

can you even read or do i just need to repeat myself all the time?

ktlx
Jul 4, 2006, 06:46 PM
can you even read
Funny I was able to ask you the same thing. Apparently you don't since you don't seem to have any idea what you're talking about in most of these posts.

People must like selling stuff to you. You want a more expensive, slower solution. FB-DIMMs are an awesome solution. They are slower, have higher latencies and cost a lot more than DDR2 DIMMs. Or do you believe that everyone is going to need 16GB on the desktop this winter?

FB-DIMMs are Intel's answer to AMD's on-board memory controller in their Opterons. If you need a server with two sockets and need 16GB, with AMD you have four memory slots per socket and things work out just dandy using plain old DDR or DDR2. If you need a similar set up using Intel, you need eight memory slots per MCH which gets pretty tricky at higher DDR2 speeds. The problem only gets worse for Intel as you try to add more memory slots.

Oops, I made a mistake here on the bandwidth. It looks like Intel is able to get higher bandwidth than regular DDR2 by having two "channels" to memory. You get pretty nasty latencies, but for things like databases and Xeons with massive caches, that's probably not going to be a big deal.

gammamonk
Jul 4, 2006, 06:55 PM
What's to become of the iMac? New Casing, New Processor? Down from a Dual-Core to a Single-Core?

I love the intel iMac. I don't think they'll need to change it. If anything, Apple would want the Mac Pro to have the higher-level CPU.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 06:58 PM
you've obviously never spoken to anyone that uses any app to a profession level, more ram the merrier and FB-dimms are a step in the right direction, latency is a small price to pay, and as i have said in a previous post, if everyone thought like you we would all be useing pc100 as both DDR123 increased latency for bandwidth.

ktlx
Jul 4, 2006, 07:04 PM
and as i have said in a previous post, if everyone thought like you we would all be useing pc100 as both DDR123 increased latency for bandwidth.
Now you've completely demonstrated you don't know what you're talking about. Latencies are specified in memory clock cycles and actually decrease at a certain crossover point. DDR400 at CL3 has measurably less latency than PC100 CL1.5.

You really need to spend time reading about things.

You've also never bothered designing systems because it's not always useful to keep adding memory for all applications. Especially the vast majority of applications that people are going to be using on a desktop. Look at what nearly all people are doing with their single socket, dual core PowerMac G5s today. I would defy you to find enough worth even mentioning who could use 8GB, let alone 16GB in the next year or so. Hell, I would be surprised if the vast majority could even use more than 4GB of physical memory. All of the applications that I can think of that would benefit from 16GB in the next year or so would also benefit from Woodcrest's ability to do two sockets of dual core processors.

Mord
Jul 4, 2006, 07:20 PM
Now you've completely demonstrated you don't know what you're talking about. Latencies are specified in memory clock cycles and actually decrease at a certain crossover point. DDR400 at CL3 has measurably less latency than PC100 CL1.5.

You really need to spend time reading about things.

You've also never bothered designing systems because it's not always useful to keep adding memory for all applications. Especially the vast majority of applications that people are going to be using on a desktop. Look at what nearly all people are doing with their single socket, dual core PowerMac G5s today. I would defy you to find enough worth even mentioning who could use 8GB, let alone 16GB in the next year or so. Hell, I would be surprised if the vast majority could even use more than 4GB of physical memory. All of the applications that I can think of that would benefit from 16GB in the next year or so would also benefit from Woodcrest's ability to do two sockets of dual core processors.

one of my projects can eat up over 12GB in memory.

generik
Jul 4, 2006, 07:21 PM
Please Apple, new MacbookPro that focuses on comfort of use. Create a new design...I don't want to look down on a laptop screen anymore, it's an archaic concept. Make the laptop screen move up and down, like in this picture (only make it look like a beautiful apple product)


Continue to push the envelope!

God, that screen is ugly. Thanks but no thanks. Apple products are fragile enough, that spiny stand + Apple's sweatshop factories = QC disaster IMHO.

smokeyboi
Jul 4, 2006, 07:27 PM
if they release a new macbook pro with a black anodized aluminum case...my current mbp is going straight to ebay!:D

rimrocka07011
Jul 4, 2006, 07:32 PM
if they release a new macbook pro with a black anodized aluminum case...my current mbp is going straight to ebay!:D

Same here. Is there anyway that I can remove my hard drive and place it in the new MBP?

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 07:36 PM
Same here. Is there anyway that I can remove my hard drive and place it in the new MBP?Sure. Only 27 screws (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/85.6.0.html). Nothin' to it. :rolleyes:

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 07:43 PM
if they release a new macbook pro with a black anodized aluminum case...my current mbp is going straight to ebay!:DI think you mean WHEN they release the 2.33GHz Black Merom MacBook Pro - not if. :)

Peace
Jul 4, 2006, 07:48 PM
I think you mean WHEN they release the Black Merom MacBook Pro - not if. :)


That sir is something we can agree on..

Love those Memrons!!

Multimedia
Jul 4, 2006, 07:51 PM
That sir is something we can agree on..

Love those Memrons!!Merom.

Chundles
Jul 4, 2006, 07:57 PM
Merom.

Nah, Merom's silly. Call it Memrom, it sounds like a cheesy comic book bad guy.

technicolor
Jul 4, 2006, 08:32 PM
if they release a new macbook pro with a black anodized aluminum case...my current mbp is going straight to ebay!:D
Mine is going anyway. Ive learned my lesson on buying Apple products straight off the concept line.

Jbook
Jul 4, 2006, 09:29 PM
or in my case....owning a $2000 computer armoire that has a compartment that is meant to house a computer "tower" enclosure......but when the G5 came out....it was way too big to fit into that enclosure. So I have been stuck using my G4 733 mhz that BARELY fits....but still doesn't allow me to close the doors of the armoire.

before i spend 2 grand on an armoire, i like to make sure my computer fits in it... dunno, maybe im just weird...

RichP
Jul 4, 2006, 09:35 PM
With regards to pricing (using crucial as a reference)

2gb (2x 1gb kit) of PC2-4200: 299.72 (what the G5 uses)
2gb (2x 1gb kit) of PC2-5300: 358.43
2gb (2z 1gb kit) of PC2-4200 FULLY BUFFERED ECC: 356.99 (what the Dell "Woodcrest" machines use)

The RAM isnt that much more expensive that what the current machines use (about 16% more) so, again, I am saying W00DCR3$T for MacPro.

OdduWon
Jul 4, 2006, 09:54 PM
when are they going to stuff a woodcrest into a mbp?

auxplage
Jul 4, 2006, 10:16 PM
The current casing is so amazing for the MacBook Pro.

I would like the Mac Pro to go back to a design similar to the last revision of the Power Mac G4 with obvious changes of course: It is superior to the G5 casing.

generik
Jul 4, 2006, 10:22 PM
when are they going to stuff a woodcrest into a mbp?

Why do you need a woodcrest in a MBP?

AidenShaw
Jul 4, 2006, 10:24 PM
Why do you need a woodcrest in a MBP?
Why would you even want a Conroe in an MBP (or iMac)?

KindredMAC
Jul 4, 2006, 10:26 PM
I think the Mac Pro will show what the next style of pros will follow, including a precursor (sp?) to the MacBook Pro.

penter
Jul 4, 2006, 10:38 PM
Yes and not long. September at the latest. Probably sooner. You have 10 days to return what you bought. If you can do it, you should definitely return the one you just bought.

thnx for the info. tomorrow is the last day to return! i dont think i'll be able to do it though... i read on some sites that neither conroe or merom have been released yet. is it really possible that these macs will be equipped with them and on the shelves so soon??

Stridder44
Jul 4, 2006, 10:44 PM
thnx for the info. tomorrow is the last day to return! i dont think i'll be able to do it though... i read on some sites that neither conroe or merom have been released yet. is it really possible that these macs will be equipped with them and on the shelves so soon??


Not with that kind of attitude.

Erasmus
Jul 4, 2006, 10:45 PM
That sir is something we can agree on..

Love those Memrons!!

ACK!!! Spelling!
OK, I know you did that on purpose.
Why, Why melt my brain so?

So, yeah. MEROM is cool. Quite good enough to designate it as a new coolness scale, measured by a Merometer. Merom scores 10. I score 11.

Evangelion
Jul 4, 2006, 11:08 PM
Other than you and Hector, the only other people I've heard use "SMP" as the two of you are, are people who don't know what they are talking about.

I do know what I'm talking about, thankyouverymuch. The use of the term is related to are you looking at the issue from software-perspective, of hardware-perspective. Software-wise, there is no difference between two single-core CPU, when compared to one dual-core CPU's. Hardware-wise, there is a difference.

Back in the "old days", when people talked of SMP, they were talking of multi-socket systems, since there was no multi-core CPU's. Today, when we have multicore-CPU's, and some people look at SMP from software-side (in which case dualcore can be labeled as "SMP"), or from hardware-perspective. Neither is really wrong on the issue.

EDIT: How does Intel describe their Xeon-CPU? Like this:

These are the most widely deployed 64-bit processors in the world and are ideal for a broad range of business solutions, from application servers to email servers to Internet servers. Designed for volume 2-way configurations, the new Dual-Core Intel® Xeon® processor-based servers deliver additional levels of performance, power-efficiency and reliability to help you improve the efficiency and responsiveness of your server infrastructure.

By your logic, that would be four-way system, right? Are you saying that Intel "does not know what they are talking about"?

Of Xeon MP they say this: "Designed for 4-way and higher configurations". Clearly, they have no idea what they are talking about.

Silentwave
Jul 4, 2006, 11:20 PM
thnx for the info. tomorrow is the last day to return! i dont think i'll be able to do it though... i read on some sites that neither conroe or merom have been released yet. is it really possible that these macs will be equipped with them and on the shelves so soon??

Anything with Conroe or Woodcrest can be released in August easily- Conroe comes out end of this month. Nothing Merom will be out until Aug. 22nd or later.

boncellis
Jul 4, 2006, 11:24 PM
Not exactly surprising. I'd be surprised if anyone in this forum couldn't write a better Thinksecret "story" than they do.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Mr. Ive will do with the new enclosure. I've been a consumer (except for the PB) level Mac user but this might be my chance to take the plunge. I appreciate the sleek design of the current PowerMac, I just hope the enclosure is a little bit smaller this time around.

thejadedmonkey
Jul 4, 2006, 11:28 PM
It's Symmetric Multi-Processing. I don't believe it's Jewish. :D
If it was jewish, it would be semetic multi-processing, but I digress...


Does anyone think that we might be seeing the return of the iMac/iBook PowerMac/PowerBook colation again? iMac/MacBook Pro, Mac Pro/PowerBook Pro. All that's needed to turn a laptop into a PowerMac is a larger 2" thick case, with a DL DVD burner and space for a 2nd HDD or something... That would be siiick!

steve jr.
Jul 4, 2006, 11:41 PM
They could have had the new design in front of us the entire time. I was looking through pics on my computer and I found this from when they did a revamp to the PB's (the last before they went to Intel I think). The one with the brighter displays and the scrolling track pad and the SMS (sudden motion sensor) if i remember right). Just pretend it's black with a light being shown on it!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a292/future_ceo/wirelesstop20050920.jpg

Chundles
Jul 4, 2006, 11:45 PM
They could have had the new design in front of us the entire time. I was looking through pics on my computer and I found this from when they did a revamp to the PB's (the last before they went to Intel I think). The one with the brighter displays and the scrolling track pad and the SMS (sudden motion sensor) if i remember right). Just pretend it's black with a light being shown on it!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a292/future_ceo/wirelesstop20050920.jpg

Um, that's a PowerBook.

The antennae on the screen, the ports, they're all PowerBook design traits. What am I supposed to be looking at?

heisetax
Jul 4, 2006, 11:45 PM
Dual Conroes

But dual Conroes is not supposed to be a workable Intel option.

Erasmus
Jul 4, 2006, 11:48 PM
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a292/future_ceo/wirelesstop20050920.jpg

Schweet!
Black is after all the coolest colour. Well hottest, actually, but that's a good thing. Black radiates and absorbs heat better than grey or white. That leads to cooler CPU's and GPU's.
How about an aluminium Apple on the black background? Put an end to the lit apple? Not to say I don't like the glowing white apple, but something different might be better.

steve jr.
Jul 4, 2006, 11:50 PM
Chundles, I'm well aware that's a PB as I said in my post. My point is is this is what a MBP could look like if it were black.

heisetax
Jul 4, 2006, 11:51 PM
In terms of the MacBook Pro, I'd like to see how they can improve upon perfection. I'm a little nervous as to how it will look... but I guess each successive PowerBook revision looked snazzier than the one before it.


THe 17" could offer an option of speakers or a numeric keypad. My speakers are turned off 95+% of the time, but I use a numeric keypad all day 7 days a week. At present that means carrying a numeric keypad or a full keyboard much of the time.

A 19-23" model with numeric keypad & speakers would also be acceptable.

boncellis
Jul 4, 2006, 11:52 PM
I wonder about the new Mac Pro lineup--somehow I don't see Apple coming out with two different enclosures, maybe it's the lack of another trademarked name, I don't know. So, if it's one case design, it would have to be big enough to house a quad core setup, but on the low end support a less expensive option.

I see the need for a "mid-level" tower, but somehow I think the intermediate nature will stem from the price point instead of there being a wholly separate line. Just my guess.

Chundles
Jul 4, 2006, 11:55 PM
Chundles, I'm well aware that's a PB as I said in my post. My point is is this is what a MBP could look like if it were black.

But it's not black, it's just a dimly lit PowerBook. It's still grey.

penter
Jul 4, 2006, 11:56 PM
Not with that kind of attitude.

i wish i could do something about it, but its not up to me to return it... :(
its ok... i dont mind it if my computer runs a fraction of a second slower than its newer versioin will. like i've read in this website before: "i dont care if it takes iTunes 2 bounces on the dock instead of one in order to start up"
by the way, does anyone know the specs of these new processors?

odedia
Jul 5, 2006, 01:17 AM
Messing with the MBP enclosure design is a bad move.

Because of this "amazing" design:

1. You're limited to 4X DVD burners on the 15.4".
2. You might get yourself small electric shocks (I know I did).
3. You may never have children because that alluminum takes out all the heat right into your you-know-what.
4. Lids pop-up due to the thin height and excessive heat.
5. Your number of ports is limted due to the lack of space, therefore need to take out VGA port, S-Video port, Firewire 800 port (15.4"). Plus lack of space means you can't put 2 hard drives inside, for example.
6. You need to underclock your very expensive ATI X1600 because the small form factor causes too much heat to allow it to operate at manufacturer's temparture.

I can't wait for them to change that design.

Oded S.

firsttube
Jul 5, 2006, 01:20 AM
If I'm not mistaken anondizing results in an extremely hard surface which is quite difficult to scratch. In fact, I think it is harder to scratch than un-anondized aluminum. So...bring it on!!! Afteral the iPod mini's were anodized and I don't recall scratching complaints. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

You are very wrong, I have my very own 2nd get 6 gig mini, and it's very very scratched. Oh wait, no it's not. Not one bit. I don't think scratches show on them at all. Nevermind hayduke, you are right. :p

Evangelion
Jul 5, 2006, 01:29 AM
But it's not black, it's just a dimly lit PowerBook. It's still grey.

I think we all know that :rolleyes:. The point is that that what black MBP could look like. Yes, it's still rey, but because of the light, it looks like black.

Chundles
Jul 5, 2006, 01:35 AM
I think we all know that :rolleyes:. The point is that that what black MBP could look like. Yes, it's still rey, but because of the light, it looks like black.

Well, sure looks grey to me. Ah well, milage varies I spose.

CaptainCaveMann
Jul 5, 2006, 01:40 AM
I'd like to see those horrible silver keys go away for starters. Most of the existing MacBook Pro enclosure is very nice but I've detested the silver keys ever since I saw them in real life (they actually looked OK in the pictures). I'm just gutted that I'm going to have to wait longer for the laptop that I've been lusting after for the last couple years.

Bring back the TiBook!!!! Loved the keyboard on those. ;)

ATG
Jul 5, 2006, 01:48 AM
My wish list (for the Mac Pro):

Same design as the G5 (looks nice, works)
Improved a bit with little features (like more USB ports etc.)
Choice of Black Anodised or Silver Aluminium
Smaller

My wish list (for the MBP)
Same design as before
More Ports
Choice of Black Anodised or Silver Aluminium

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 02:18 AM
Black radiates and absorbs heat better than grey or white.

That's not true. What colour do people paint heating radiators? White. For a reason.

Evangelion
Jul 5, 2006, 02:34 AM
Well, sure looks grey to me. Ah well, milage varies I spose.

It looks grey where the light is shining. Other parts of the laptop are considerably darker than the current MBP is.

Erasmus
Jul 5, 2006, 03:02 AM
That's not true. What colour do people paint heating radiators? White. For a reason.
The tiles on the bottom of the Space Shuttle are black. Why?
When your car has been left out in the sun, you don't touch the black bits. Why?
Solar cells are black. Why?
And if black absorbs heat fater (as it does with visible light- hence BLACK) does it not stand to reason that black things radiate heat faster as well?
Think hot coals versus... I dunno... something hot, white that you can touch without burning yourself. I know... AeroGel.

So does it also not stand to reason that if a material absorbs and re-emits heat faster than another, it would keep a CPU/GPU cooler?

Moral to this post, don't cover your brand new Macbook Pro's processor with AeroGel.

Please. Don't try to out-nerd me.

generik
Jul 5, 2006, 03:14 AM
That's not true. What colour do people paint heating radiators? White. For a reason.

What bizzaro world you live in? The radiators I see around in our local scrap yard are all painted :)

THX1139
Jul 5, 2006, 03:21 AM
The current casing is so amazing for the MacBook Pro.

I would like the Mac Pro to go back to a design similar to the last revision of the Power Mac G4 with obvious changes of course: It is superior to the G5 casing.

I read your post twice and still wasn't sure what you were trying to say. Are you saying the G4 case is a better design than the G5 case? I hope not.

generik
Jul 5, 2006, 03:28 AM
Actually after giving it some thought it doesn't matter to me personally if it is grey or black, or not.

What I hope to see is a more resilient construction, something that you can occasionally bang on without having it look like an expired tin can from Apu's Qwikie Mart.

No warps. No dents. Metallic construction. I am happy.

Evangelion
Jul 5, 2006, 03:28 AM
I read your post twice and still wasn't sure what you were trying to say. Are you saying the G4 case is a better design than the G5 case? I hope not.

It might be superior functionally (more drivebays, more accessible components, more expansion-slots etc.), but the G5-case is miles ahead in overall refinement :).

Josias
Jul 5, 2006, 03:41 AM
There are a few things I can't believe they moved from the G5:
1. The G4 had this easy access door on the side, hell, even G3 had it.
2. The G4 had a L3 FSB and a Back Side Bus too.
3. The G4 had 4 HDD bays, the G5 had 2.
4. The G4 had 2 drive bays, the G5 had 1...

Except for all these cool features, I would like some new to be added, yet I can't think of anything cooler than this aluminum case it has now. I wold hate a black PM...:mad:

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 03:53 AM
The tiles on the bottom of the Space Shuttle are black. Why?
When your car has been left out in the sun, you don't touch the black bits. Why?
Solar cells are black. Why?
And if black absorbs heat fater (as it does with visible light- hence BLACK) does it not stand to reason that black things radiate heat faster as well?


Black absorbs heat better than white. I'm not debating that.

As it happens I think you're right though. :)

I also think that the colour of the laptop is going to make minimal difference to how cool the cpu inside will be. Most of the cooling in a laptop is using fans and to a lesser extent convection to keep the thing cool. After all the design of the powerbook is not intended to make the case a heat sink.

Edit: In fact you could argue that a white shiney laptop will protect the user from excessive heat more than a matte black one as it's slower to radiate out the heat from the inside (yes, now I've had my coffee and can think straight :) )

Explain to me why radiators are white please? (edit: cosmetic, and possibly to retain heat so when the heating system goes off it gives out over a longer period of time)


Please. Don't try to out-nerd me.

Haha wear that badge with pride man.

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 04:00 AM
What bizzaro world you live in? The radiators I see around in our local scrap yard are all painted :)


All domestic heating radiators are white. Before we get into a nerd-off though it's probably cosmetic rather than for function.

:)

Evangelion
Jul 5, 2006, 04:01 AM
2. The G4 had a L3 FSB and a Back Side Bus too.

They had that because the FSB on G4 was abysmally slow. In order to compensate for it, they had to use L3-cache. G5 does not need it because the FSB is order of magnitude faster and because the memory-subsystem is overall so much more robust. Sure, L3-cache might have increased performance by a bit, but it would have also cost more.

aswitcher
Jul 5, 2006, 04:37 AM
My wish list (for the Mac Pro):

Same design as the G5 (looks nice, works)
Improved a bit with little features (like more USB ports etc.)
Choice of Black Anodised or Silver Aluminium
Smaller



And for me designed to lay on its side so it will fit under my TV!

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 05:00 AM
And for me designed to lay on its side so it will fit under my TV!

Something in between a Mini and a iMac could have this form factor. I'd like one of those too.

aswitcher
Jul 5, 2006, 05:06 AM
Something in between a Mini and a iMac could have this form factor. I'd like one of those too.

A screenless iMac that was designed to lay flat would be great if it has enough grunt and HDD space.

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 05:10 AM
A screenless iMac that was designed to lay flat would be great if it has enough grunt and HDD space.

Yeah user upgradable 3.5" HD, memory and a decent video card.

Mord
Jul 5, 2006, 05:10 AM
~hector looks at his g4 cube with its upgradeable graphics/cpu/ram/HD/optical drive and grumbles~

Joe2000
Jul 5, 2006, 05:34 AM
The FW800 PowerMac G4 is the best looking computer on the planet! :D

Best looking Macs:

1. FW800 G4 and 23" Cinema HD Display (Clear Enclosure)

2. iMac G4

3. PowerMac G4 Cube and 17" LCD Studio Display

4. iBook 500MHz

5. iMac G3 Snow

6. iMac G5 (W/Out iSight)

7. There all great looking but the above are exceptions IMO...

- Joe. :cool:

iAlan
Jul 5, 2006, 05:41 AM
that ThinkSecret is wrong or anything, but aren't they stating the obvious? A new 'PowerMac' in a new enclosure - this is a no brainer really.

I think the MacBook Pros and Intel iMacs were to be the last of the PPC lines, but some delay pushed them closer to the Intel availability and the Intel chips were used - thus no change to the cases. The MacBooks were always to be Intel based thus the new design from day one.

I think we will get a new enclosure for the MacBook Pros wit the next chip upgrade, and maybe a slightly changed iMac as well on the next update.

The MacPros will look great - and we will all be thinking "why didn't I think of that?"

And does anyone else think that ThinkSecret has posted it's rumor in a very news-oriented style - maybe as a way to protect themselves by claimimg the rights of journalists not to reveal sources or have to remove the story.

Erasmus
Jul 5, 2006, 05:50 AM
I also think that the colour of the laptop is going to make minimal difference to how cool the cpu inside will be. Most of the cooling in a laptop is using fans and to a lesser extent convection to keep the thing cool. After all the design of the powerbook is not intended to make the case a heat sink.

OK, I'm sorry. There was a small amount of sarcasm in my first post on this topic. I did not mean that changing the colour of the MBP would instantly solve Job's nightmares, it was simply a somewhat limited justification of the practicality of black. (Hmm... Is the speed of dark greater than the speed of light?)(Sorry. Personal joke. Well not so much personal... oh... Whatever.)

I just want a Black Aluminium Macbook Pro.

Edit: In fact you could argue that a white shiney laptop will protect the user from excessive heat more than a matte black one as it's slower to radiate out the heat from the inside (yes, now I've had my coffee and can think straight :) )

Yes, but it's only better for the user, not the computer itself. We at Mac Rumors are all masochists who want the best for our Macs without regard to our own health and safety. Well? Aren't we?

Explain to me why radiators are white please? (edit: cosmetic, and possibly to retain heat so when the heating system goes off it gives out over a longer period of time)

I suppose you are right. Is white paint cheaper?

Haha wear that badge with pride man.

Don't you worry. I intend to. The world's no. 1 Cool Nerd. :cool: :D ;)
Oops! Sarcasm again!

Yes, I think this post is good. I don't want to read it through and check it...

Hey, I'm no longer a MR noob! I've been promoted to Member! (Score!)
(MWAHAHAHA!)

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 06:05 AM
OK, I'm sorry. There was a small amount of sarcasm in my first post on this topic. I did not mean that changing the colour of the MBP would instantly solve Job's nightmares, it was simply a somewhat limited justification of the practicality of black. (Hmm... Is the speed of dark greater than the speed of light?)(Sorry. Personal joke. Well not so much personal... oh... Whatever.)


heh heh. I'd just got up...which explains my terseness (and wrongness as it happens)


I just want a Black Aluminium Macbook Pro.


We agree completely then.


Yes, but it's only better for the user, not the computer itself. We at Mac Rumors are all masochists who want the best for our Macs without regard to our own health and safety. Well? Aren't we?


I have two 12" powerbooks (867 and 1.33). The heat these things reach I clearly don't value having kids anytime soon :)


Don't you worry. I intend to. The world's no. 1 Cool Nerd. :cool: :D ;)
Oops! Sarcasm again!

Hey, I'm no longer a MR noob! I've been promoted to Member! (Score!)
(MWAHAHAHA!)

Congrats.... :)

MacSamurai
Jul 5, 2006, 06:06 AM
For everyone who didnt know,you can get black MBP for extra $$ heres the link http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/select_MacBookPro.aspx
many colors for you boys who need em lol oh and this goes for MB too yayay

Erasmus
Jul 5, 2006, 06:16 AM
We agree completely then.
*Shakes hand of emotion*

Yep, so where back to the loving hope of a 2.33 C2D with 512mb X1800 17" MBP.
Which is black. Aluminium. With a magnetic latch. Which runs cooler. etc.
Yep, that's pretty much what my posts contain that is relevant to the topic. :o

emotion
Jul 5, 2006, 06:20 AM
*Shakes hand of emotion*


:) that's that settled then.


Yep, so where back to the loving hope of a 2.33 C2D with 512mb X1800 17" MBP.
Which is black. Aluminium. With a magnetic latch. Which runs cooler. etc.
Yep, that's pretty much what my posts contain that is relevant to the topic. :o

Well I'm hoping for something on the other end of the scale, I want a 13" mbp in black....or even something "ultraportable", to replace my aging 12" powerbook.

I might be waiting a while :)

aswitcher
Jul 5, 2006, 06:20 AM
Yeah user upgradable 3.5" HD, memory and a decent video card.

Make that twin upgradable 3.5"HDD.

HDMI port.

A couple of slots for tuners and graphics cards

Erasmus
Jul 5, 2006, 06:30 AM
Well I'm hoping for something on the other end of the scale, I want a 13" mbp in black....or even something "ultraportable", to replace my aging 12" powerbook.

Ugh!
MUCH too practical for my tastes!
I'm looking forward to lugging a 10kg backpack from trainstation to uni and back every day. The happiness knowing you've got a real beast on your back would surely more than offset any meager discomfort this would cause!:p

My dad's 17" Powerbook is simply beautiful.

Stella
Jul 5, 2006, 06:42 AM
The Mac Pro redesign was a given - the current model was an interim machine so apple could remove the ageing and very slow G4 processor.

generik
Jul 5, 2006, 08:22 AM
For everyone who didnt know,you can get black MBP for extra $$ heres the link http://www.colorwarepc.com/products/select_MacBookPro.aspx
many colors for you boys who need em lol oh and this goes for MB too yayay

Those are so uncool.. :)

Seriously they look like just cheap paint jobs. I think what others have in mind (at least that's what I have in mind) is a treated aluminium that is a bit like the anodised alumiunium cookware that we have in the kitchen, where the black actually has a somewhat matt and dull finish rather than the colourware ones, which really are just a variant of the black Macbook.

Geez, I'm tired, guess it is time to go to bed earlier... WWDC comes sooner the more I sleep! :D

The Mac Pro redesign was a given - the current model was an interim machine so apple could remove the ageing and very slow G4 processor.

You meant Macbook Pro :)

Ugh!
MUCH too practical for my tastes!
I'm looking forward to lugging a 10kg backpack from trainstation to uni and back every day. The happiness knowing you've got a real beast on your back would surely more than offset any meager discomfort this would cause!:p

My dad's 17" Powerbook is simply beautiful.

Well one of my lecturers in Uni has this huge 17" PB G4 that he carries around with him in this large metaliic suitcase.. and that guy always dresses in black for *some* reason. Even owns a black U2 iPod.. that guy is pretty hardcore :D

Hasn't seen him for a while, but I doubt he likes small laptops that much, but I do suppose his gothic outfit will be complete if the black MBP does materialises :rolleyes:

milo
Jul 5, 2006, 08:51 AM
Thinksecret has blown it too many times. I don't take any of this seriously.

I'd consider any of this once I heard it from Apple Insider.

At this point, this is just more fodder for the clueless who can't understand that quad core chips don't exist yet, and conroes can't be run in dual chip configs. People have been hashing out these same arguments for months. No thanks.

thejadedmonkey
Jul 5, 2006, 09:26 AM
This would be nice...especially for a base model priced at $2899.


Dual Dual-Core chips at 2.1ghz
1 gig RAM
Dual 80gig HDD's
Dual x1800 GPU's (upgradable)
DVD+RW
Modular CD-RW/DVD
6 USB Ports
2 Firewire 400
1 Firewire 800
Airport Ultra/BT 2.0
6 Hour battery life.


Of course, it would have to look something like this..http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52067&stc=1&d=1152109334

technicolor
Jul 5, 2006, 09:32 AM
That design is horrible, way too thick.

extraextra
Jul 5, 2006, 09:54 AM
I would not pay $2899 for something that looks like that. If I needed all that, I would go for a desktop.

And, it seems like the thing would overheat!

thejadedmonkey
Jul 5, 2006, 10:03 AM
You're right, it is kinda thick. It's the idea that I was trying to convay, not the actual appearance though (as, obviously my photoshop skills suck).

AidenShaw
Jul 5, 2006, 10:05 AM
I would not pay $2899 for something that looks like that. If I needed all that, I would go for a desktop.
If you were a musician, or a photographer/videographer on the road - you'd be happy to get that much power in a portable.

If you were a gamer, and there were good Mac games, you'd also be happy.

There's a huge market where power and features are more important that "thin and light".

extraextra
Jul 5, 2006, 10:23 AM
If you were a musician, or a photographer/videographer on the road - you'd be happy to get that much power in a portable.

If you were a gamer, and there were good Mac games, you'd also be happy.

There's a huge market where power and features are more important that "thin and light".

I agree, though I hear more people wanting a 13" Macbook Pro than a Macbook Pro with dual-everything. Granted those people are probably none of the three you listed above.

I would honestly think that no laptop (if it's even possible to fit all of that in) would function at an acceptable heat with all of this:
Dual Dual-Core chips at 2.1ghz
Dual 80gig HDD's
Dual x1800 GPU's (upgradable)

People complain of the heat as it is!

morespce54
Jul 5, 2006, 10:53 AM
Here is a design idea for the new Mac .. retro look

see attached


is this a conroe or a woodcrest ???
:D :D :D

Cowinacape
Jul 5, 2006, 11:05 AM
This would be nice...especially for a base model priced at $2899.


Dual Dual-Core chips at 2.1ghz
1 gig RAM
Dual 80gig HDD's
Dual x1800 GPU's (upgradable)
DVD+RW
Modular CD-RW/DVD
6 USB Ports
2 Firewire 400
1 Firewire 800
Airport Ultra/BT 2.0
6 Hour battery life.


Of course, it would have to look something like this..http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=52067&stc=1&d=1152109334

Now I'd hit it, would make a great desk top replacement, as has already been said. But an extra 3/4 of an inch or so in thickness would definetly not bother me.

rainmanbk
Jul 5, 2006, 11:07 AM
Personally, I think the size of the PowerMac case is not its downfall. The downfall is its lack of expandability. If the Mac Pro was the same size, but had 8 or even 4 HD bays, 1 optical drive, and possibly still water-cooling, I'd be very happy.

The PowerMac design is gorgeous, it just lacks functionality.

hayduke
Jul 5, 2006, 11:17 AM
The tiles on the bottom of the Space Shuttle are black. Why?
When your car has been left out in the sun, you don't touch the black bits. Why?
Solar cells are black. Why?
And if black absorbs heat fater (as it does with visible light- hence BLACK) does it not stand to reason that black things radiate heat faster as well?
Think hot coals versus... I dunno... something hot, white that you can touch without burning yourself. I know... AeroGel.

So does it also not stand to reason that if a material absorbs and re-emits heat faster than another, it would keep a CPU/GPU cooler?

Moral to this post, don't cover your brand new Macbook Pro's processor with AeroGel.

Please. Don't try to out-nerd me.

Well...let's at least give it a shot. I think there are two different physical principles that are being conflated. Things that are black in color are more efficient at transforming light energy into heat energy. Black objects, afterall, absorb light from a much broader spectral range than do white objects. That heat energy is stored to a small extent in the paint (even less in the *very* thin anodized layer). Most of the heat is stored in the immediately adjacent aluminum case and this serves as the heat sink for all of the heat absorbed by the paint, but in the case of a laptop, mostly heat generated by the CPU & GPU. Neglecting the heat capacitance of the paint/anondization, then in the presence of no additional heat source both a black and white/silver laptop will radiate the same amount of heat into the users naughty bits. If one wanted to design a laptop that deposited less heat on Lester then an insulating layer (aerogel! even *black* areogel! either has a very low heat capacity or large R-factor) would do nicely, but would have the ill effect of forcing heat to radiate upward though the keyboard or out the sides or worse, it would remain "trapped" in the motherboard because there is such a limited area with which to do away with the heat.

In the end the color of your laptop has little to do with anything unless you leave it in the sun. In that case the black one will be hotter indeed.

boncellis
Jul 5, 2006, 11:33 AM
...At this point, this is just more fodder for the clueless who can't understand that quad core chips don't exist yet, and conroes can't be run in dual chip configs. People have been hashing out these same arguments for months. No thanks.

Yep, you're right. The funny thing is, though, that a lot of people are still getting it wrong!

maxvamp
Jul 5, 2006, 02:39 PM
I could see quite the design change here for all of the reasons mentioned.

Seriously though, how many people here think that the price for a MacPro is going to stay in the same range as before?

It is my prediction that we will once again see the return of the $3500 Mac Professional series.

Primary reasons????

I believe that the new Mac Pro will have the option for a Blu-Ray burner. Currently, the leader for this technology in the field is once again Pioneer electronics. You will find the BDR-101A (http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=17415)
to be an excellent burner and available, but at a cost of $1000 retail. Furthermore, the new Woodcrest chips will be a pretty penny on top of the normal costs for processor.

In short, if Apple plans to ( and needs to ) get the money they need to build a monster Intel Pro Mac, they need to WOW the consumer/Professional as much as possible.

I suspect a dazzling new case is around the corner, but I doubt size has little to do with it's attraction.

Now, where did I put that Quad Wallet???

Max.

edinz
Jul 5, 2006, 04:45 PM
Over-riding consideration for the design of the existing pmac was thermal, the ppc chips are hot and hungry. The new multicores are cool and lite, so expect a cool, lite, metal enclosure.

GregA
Jul 5, 2006, 07:06 PM
I'll be glad if this is true, all the new intel mac's (apart from the macbook) have disapointed me by having almost the same enclosures as the models they replaced. My next mac was going to be a powermac but i've held out for an intel update i'm sure it'll be a beast.I think that was a smart move on Apple's part.

They've made a huge technology leap, but it looks like nothing (on face value). They've probably managed to keep the best of both worlds - those scared of change can't see much difference, those who love it know what's happening under the hood.

I think they've well and truly settled any fears people had, so now they're free to continue to improve the form factors etc of the machines. :)

Erasmus
Jul 5, 2006, 08:10 PM
Well...let's at least give it a shot. I think there are two different physical principles that are being conflated. Things that are black in color are more efficient at transforming light energy into heat energy. Black objects, afterall, absorb light from a much broader spectral range than do white objects. That heat energy is stored to a small extent in the paint (even less in the *very* thin anodized layer). Most of the heat is stored in the immediately adjacent aluminum case and this serves as the heat sink for all of the heat absorbed by the paint, but in the case of a laptop, mostly heat generated by the CPU & GPU. Neglecting the heat capacitance of the paint/anondization, then in the presence of no additional heat source both a black and white/silver laptop will radiate the same amount of heat into the users naughty bits. If one wanted to design a laptop that deposited less heat on Lester then an insulating layer (aerogel! even *black* areogel! either has a very low heat capacity or large R-factor) would do nicely, but would have the ill effect of forcing heat to radiate upward though the keyboard or out the sides or worse, it would remain "trapped" in the motherboard because there is such a limited area with which to do away with the heat.

In the end the color of your laptop has little to do with anything unless you leave it in the sun. In that case the black one will be hotter indeed.

Please see post about sarcasm.

Sarcasm is GOOD. I realise that if black AeroGel existed it would retain heat exceptionally well as well. I just couldn't think of any appropriate example. I realise that the colour of the material would have negligable effect on the heat released.

I'm sorry, but I just can't bring myself to start the self-torture that is reading an extremely large block paragraph, so if I'm missing your point, I apologise. :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure the colour of a material has no impact on conduction of heat thru a material, only what that material is. Therefore a black layer of dark metal over the surface would be just as effective as solid black metal.

Well anyway, I'm sure I've got my point across. Black is practical, and looks cool, therefore Jobs should bless us with Black Macbook Pros!

aly
Jul 5, 2006, 08:58 PM
White on the inside would help reflect heat back in, black on the inside would help heat radiate thru the casing. Black on outside would help absorb ambient heat into the computer, white on the outisde would help reflect heat from the outside. So ideally, black inside, white outisde. dah dah...... i think :rolleyes:

hayduke
Jul 5, 2006, 11:13 PM
...blah blah blah...

...blah blah blah...

...blah blah blah...

I'm pretty sure the colour of a material has no impact on conduction of heat thru a material, only what that material is. Therefore a black layer of dark metal over the surface would be just as effective as solid black metal.

Well anyway, I'm sure I've got my point across. Black is practical, and looks cool, therefore Jobs should bless us with Black Macbook Pros!

Couldn't agree more (no sarcasm). :)

Silentwave
Jul 5, 2006, 11:20 PM
This would be nice...especially for a base model priced at $2899.


Dual Dual-Core chips at 2.1ghz
1 gig RAM
Dual 80gig HDD's
Dual x1800 GPU's (upgradable)
DVD+RW
Modular CD-RW/DVD
6 USB Ports
2 Firewire 400
1 Firewire 800
Airport Ultra/BT 2.0
6 Hour battery life.

[/IMG]

Well, your processors are way off- Intel has no processors that are multi-socket compatible at 2.1GHz. They do have the Xeon 5100 series Intel Core microarchitecture Woodcrest at 1.6, 1.86, 2.0, 2.3, 2.6, and 3.0 GHz, and the Woodcrest Low Voltage at 2.3 GHz, all with 1333MT/S FSB (except 1.6 and 1.83, which are 1066mt/s), 4MB L2 Cache, and with a TDP of 65W except the Low Voltage which has a TDP of 40W and the 3.0GHz which has a TDP of 80W.

Incidentally, the TDP of the Low Votlage is only 5W higher than Merom, the mobile Core 2 Duo processor, which has a TDP of 35W, however the LV Woodie has a much faster FSB.

I'd start with at least 2GB ram though in that base, upgradeable to 4-8GB.

And i'd be fine with one really good graphics card, and dual 80GB HDs come one we need at least dual 120s.

SiliconAddict
Jul 6, 2006, 12:01 AM
MacBook Pro Enclosures

knew it. every time I read something that fell out of Jobs's mouth I always know he is spouting ****. What did he say? We don't know how to improve on the design? Bull. The man is a born liar. That is assuming the RUMOR is true though.

Silentwave
Jul 6, 2006, 12:49 AM
knew it. every time I read something that fell out of Jobs's mouth I always know he is spouting ****. What did he say? We don't know how to improve on the design? Bull. The man is a born liar. That is assuming the RUMOR is true though.

But he's our favorite liar, that's for sure :)

Preacher85
Jul 6, 2006, 02:58 AM
you are both wrong. it will be an inch thinner than it already is. thus, sucking it out of existance only to be replaced by-- something.

:eek: Wouldn't that tear a hole in the space/time continuum?:confused:

Seriously though, if the MBP's case is redesigned, I think it will stay basically the same, except it will have the magnetic latching system that the MB has, and the same keyboard as the MB, except with backlighting. Otherwise, it will look pretty much the same, IMO.

Silentwave
Jul 6, 2006, 03:15 AM
:eek: Wouldn't that tear a hole in the space/time continuum?:confused:

Seriously though, if the MBP's case is redesigned, I think it will stay basically the same, except it will have the magnetic latching system that the MB has, and the same keyboard as the MB, except with backlighting. Otherwise, it will look pretty much the same, IMO.

I don't care just so long as thye have liquid helium cooling pipes for it!

ReanimationLP
Jul 6, 2006, 03:33 AM
[QUOTE=thejadedmonkey]This would be nice...especially for a base model priced at $2899.


Dual Dual-Core chips at 2.1ghz
1 gig RAM
Dual 80gig HDD's
Dual x1800 GPU's (upgradable)
DVD+RW
Modular CD-RW/DVD
6 USB Ports
2 Firewire 400
1 Firewire 800
Airport Ultra/BT 2.0
6 Hour battery life.


HAHAHAHAHA. 6 HOURS?!???!???

Try 3 minutes.

You have any idea how much the X1800 sucks up? O.O