Leopard Preview Less Than A Month Away

[GodBless]

It's less than a month before Steve Jobs' Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) commencement speech in which Leopard will be previewed. This thread is for the purpose of discussing the ins and outs of what we expect to be in Leopard. Here are some of the things to talk about:

- Any newly revealed information about Leopard.
- New thoughts about hints regarding Leopard's features that we already know about.
- What you are hopeful for (in 10.5) even though there is no proof yet that Apple will include it in Leopard.
- How Leopard should compare to Tiger.
- How Leopard should compare to Windows Vista.
- Things about Leopard that Steve Jobs may fail to address in his short speech but are still important anyway.
- Those new and revolutionary features that surprise us all -- that we won't see until the OS X preview. :D ;)
- Much much more...

[gwuMACaddict]

Thank God, I've been getting tired of waiting

[dmw007]

Looking forward to seeing what Leopard has to offer. :)


How Leopard should compare to Windows Vista.

Seeing how Mac OS X 10.3 is more advanced in ways that Vista (if it is ever released :p ) I am sure that Leopard will have no problem beating the heck out of M$'s latest OS. :D :)

[ipacmm]

Looks like I will hopefully be buying Leopard later this year if they start shipping it in the fall....lets hope.

[dmw007]

Looks like I will hopefully be buying Leopard later this year if they start shipping it in the fall....lets hope.


I thought that Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard was only slated for release in 2007? I believe that all that will happen this fall is the Leopard will be previewed. :)

[Lollypop]

From a personal perspective Im hoping for all the bling that the tiger underpinnings provide for. More animations, more fluid graphics, plain and simple bling! Improved Spotlight integration, improved finder, consistant gui...

From the perspective of a developer I really want apple to take a few pages out of microsofts book with visual studio, the key to creating a platform is application support, and thats the one place where M$ has a huge advantage over apple. Ive dabbled with XCode, and it is nowhere near as easy as even VB6.

From the perspective of a corporate customer I would like to see improved AD integration, and most improtantly of all Apples active involvement with companies that provide key corporate software such as SAP, Siebel, Oracle, Peoplesoft ect. in creating a mac version of their software. Apple couldnt go wrong by trying to get M$ to port some of their other software or at least provide support for the clients. We are investing a lot of money in products such as sharepoint and it will be a pitty if I cant use those features on my mac.

[Chundles]

I thought that Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard was only slated for release in 2007? I believe that all that will happen this fall is the Leopard will be previewed. :)

The official word is "late 2006, early 2007." It could come out towards Xmas but I'm putting my money on a Feb/March '07 release.

Mind you I'm drunk as a skunk right now so anything is possible.

[GodBless]

Looks like I will hopefully be buying Leopard later this year if they start shipping it in the fall....lets hope.The latest rumors I've heard have pointed the Leopard release date for January (the same time Microsoft plans to release Windows Vista). Apple's Mac OS X will probably get a lot of press coverage this time due to their release date being so close to Microsoft's Vista OS (and other factors).

[GodBless]

Mind you I'm drunk as a skunk right now so anything is possible.Your avatar wouldn't give us a hint would it? :rolleyes:

[GodBless]

Ive dabbled with XCode, and it is nowhere near as easy as even VB6. Easier programming isn't better programming. Take a look at the OS X application quality compared to the quality of Windows programs -- plus I don't think that it would be harder - it just takes getting used to (although I can't say for sure since I'm not a programmer).

Apples active involvement with companies that provide key corporate software such as SAP, Siebel, Oracle, Peoplesoft ect. in creating a mac version of their software. Apple couldnt go wrong by trying to get M$ to port some of their other software or at least provide support for the clients.Macs can run Windows so why port software? The way I see it is that the latest and greatest programs right now are only available for the Mac anyway. Major companies will catch on to this, it is only a matter of time.

We are investing a lot of money in products such as sharepoint and it will be a pitty if I cant use those features on my mac.That's what virtualization (http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/) is for. (Check out the linked product for more information.) Hopefully Leopard will have seamless interface integration with Windows programs so that we won't have to mess with an OS emulator though. That would be the best.

[GodBless]

As I've said in other threads -- I hope Leopard will include this window switching feature in addition to the application switcher (which is activated with the "Command+tab" keystroke combination by default in Tiger):
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25972

[Patch^]

Something little that I think should be included in Leopard is the actual iLife Suite. You only get the iLife suite when you buy a new Mac or buy it separately. In Vista they have applications like iLife that are apart of the OS and I think Apple should do the same.

The mock-ups and rumors of tabbed browsing in the finder sounds good to. Other things like an update on Spotlight, get rid of brushed metal lol. Virtualization* would be nice, but it will only be on Intel Macs :(.

I can't really think of much more at the moment lol.

[GodBless]

Something little that I think should be included in Leopard is the actual iLife Suite. You only get the iLife suite when you buy a new Mac or buy it separately. In Vista they have applications like iLife that are apart of the OS and I think Apple should do the same.Like what? It reminds me of the Mac commercial (linked here (http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads1/ilife_480x376.mov)):
"PC: Calculator; Mac: That's cool; anything else?; PC: Clock." :D

Mac OS X is revenue for Apple and so is iLife. Try telling Microsoft to include Office with Vista. :rolleyes:

This iLife/OS X integration has been discussed long ago when the Tiger release was around the corner (linked here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=115630)).

[whooleytoo]

As I've said in other threads -- I hope Leopard will include this window switching feature in addition to the application switcher (which is activated with the "Command+tab" keystroke combination by default in Tiger):
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25972


You can do something close to that already - Hit F9 to activate Exposé, then Command-Tab to switch to the relevant app. You can even use it while dragging and dropping.


I'd also like to be able to customise Exposé; the window ordering is too random, it'd be better for me if I could customise the way the windows spread out so that I could sort by date modified, or application etc.

Also, Exposé is nearly useless for me, as I deal with mostly text files which are almost indistinguishable, it'd be great if all the windows could be named, not just the one with the mouse focus.

[GodBless]

You can do something close to that already - Hit F9 to activate Exposé, then Command-Tab to switch to the relevant app.Yes even just hitting the tab key works when Exposé is activated -- F9 and F10 that is (and not F11). I'd like it better if the Command-tab menu stayed up while the windows did -- and that is where the solution that I presented in a previous post comes in handy. Although Exposé wouldn't be too bad with the menu if the menu moved to the top of the screen (instead of staying in the middle with Exposé) and also if each time the tab key is pressed the Exposé windows changed (not just when the Command key is released).

Also, Exposé is nearly useless for me, as I deal with mostly text files which are almost indistinguishable, it'd be great if all the windows could be named, not just the one with the mouse focus.Good point. That should at least be an optional preference.

[Josh]

I'd like to see 2 new features, regarding preferences, and something I call "blocks."

Preferences
----------------
Rather than going to the menu and selecting 'Preferences,' I think it would be neat if each app had an icon similar to the one widgets have. This way, you could click it, and the app would rotate and show the reverse side where all the preference settings could be found.

"Blocks"
-----------------
I think it would be neat if apps were integrated into blocks, or "cubes."

For example, there could be an iWork 'cube' or block; opening the application would present you with the usual "what would you like to make: document, presentation, etc" options.

Clicking "presentation" would make the block rotate and expose the side which has the presentation software, Keynote, and all its features.

There would be a new icon that would let you go back to the selection side of the block, or browse to another side, such as the Pages side, in this example.

This could also work for iLife, having iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb all being "sides" of one cube. Still seperate apps, but the way you access them would change. Opening iTunes would not cause iPhoto and all other iApps to open as well - only browsing to that app's side of the cube would open the app.

Closing the app would cause it to rotate back to the orignal one you opened, or you could browse between sides without closing any that you've opened.

Even further, there could be a 'Create a block' feature, where you could select up to 6 apps and compose your own block and give it a title.

For example, I would like a "Most used" block, which would have Firefox on one side, iTunes on another.

There would be an additional feature which would let you spin and rotate blocks similar to expose' that so you can look at what is on them without accessing each side individualy. Expose' would be revamped to be "block-aware" to show all sides of all blocks when accessed.

It could go even further to introduce 'Smart Blocks' which automatically update to recognize the applications you access most, least, or are related (a photography apps block, a writing block, a web block, etc).

Combining 6 apps into 1 rotatable block would be huge for saving screen space and increasing productivity. Sides of blocks could be 'detached' or unfolded at any time,so you could see two sides next to each other at once.

The uses for this I think would be limitless.

[wms121]

...here is what is currently 128-bit now:


Sun's Solaris ZFS operating system for the MAJC chip:

http://www.sun.com/2004-0914/feature/
http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/1999-10/sunflash.991005.5.xml


IBM's AIX 4.1 code extender for its MMC packages:

http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/852569B20050FF77852569910050C0FB

http://www-03.ibm.com/chips/photolibrary/photo10.nsf/WebViewNumber/86B837BBAF0441BD0025708F004A65DF

Could Apple get a "custom Intel server chip" with 64/128/256 bit capability?

Transmeta already has 256-bit chips..software and existing products:

http://www.transmeta.com


Apple "rumors" concerning HPC products:

http://www.absoft.com/Products/Clusters/hpcsdk_osx.html
http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/05/g5_linux/


...gee, hope Steve mentions "something".

ww

<---remembers a very nice Transmeta babe..at "Embedded 2002" Dallas ; )

[BlizzardBomb]

We're ready to be blown away Apple. :)

[dmw007]

We're ready to be blown away Apple. :)


And I think that we will- Apple is bound to have some great things up it's sleeve. :D :)

[bousozoku]

...
From the perspective of a developer I really want apple to take a few pages out of microsofts book with visual studio, the key to creating a platform is application support, and thats the one place where M$ has a huge advantage over apple. Ive dabbled with XCode, and it is nowhere near as easy as even VB6.
...

I think you're really missing something here. Visual BASIC is also much easier than Visual C++, if you're only dabbling. However, when it comes down to it, realistic developers don't use VB to develop serious applications--they use VC++. If they like the drag-and-drop way of doing things that VB made popular, they can use 3 different Borland environments, which aren't nearly as quirky.

I still find Windows tools to be better thought out because there is competition, but Xcode is a very good set of tools that's no more difficult than VC++ and provides some very interesting ways of doing things. It makes you do good design work so you don't have to fix things later in the code the way you often do in Windows.

For Leopard, I'm hoping that the Unified Look is everywhere--no more pinstripes and brushed metal, please.

I'm also hoping that the base of the system improves. It would be nice if Apple would support ZFS and some popular Linux-based file systems to make transitions easier. It would probably pull more developers their way.

I'm sure we'll see a huge performance increase for the Intel side. I'm hoping that, with Tevanian gone, they've gone with a new, radically improved kernel. It would be truly sweet to see 3 and 4 year old PowerPC machines running as fast on Leopard as the final PowerPC machines run on Tiger. Everytime I see a comparison on Linux vs. BSD vs. Darwin, I cringe because Apple's kernel is way too slow.

[GodBless]

We're ready to be blown away Apple. :)You said it! :)

[Timepass]

Releasing it near the time of Vista is a bad idea on apples part. It will get little if any press covage at all. Reason being is apple OS releases have become very mandain and boring. It not anything new. Since Expose the "new feature" added in each OS have really not been that flashy or anything really new.

Dashboard was not a new thing. You already had Konfabulator out for a while.

Spotlight. Nope not a new thing. Google desktop and other programs had been out for a while.

Everything else not anything to care about.

Now Vista is huge. It going to take all the media attention because it been such a long time since something came out to replace XP.

And compared to XP vista is a huge improvement and bring a lot of new things out.
Each new verson of OSX does really bring that much new to the table compared to the one before it.

If apple wants a good realse time it be a month or more after Vista been realse to the general public. March is the eariliest to give Vista enough time to die out of press.

[GodBless]

Releasing it near the time of Vista is a bad idea on apples part. It will get little if any press covage at all. Reason being is apple OS releases have become very mandain and boring. It not anything new. Since Expose the "new feature" added in each OS have really not been that flashy or anything really new.This much (http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/over200.html) and more (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=121365) was new in Tiger and plus 10.5 will be a major release (since it is a ".5" release it as has got to be huge). Don't underestimate Apple's OS design ability. Microsoft won't be able to match it -- for sure.

[wmmk]

I'd like to see 2 new features, regarding preferences, and something I call "blocks."

Preferences
----------------
Rather than going to the menu and selecting 'Preferences,' I think it would be neat if each app had an icon similar to the one widgets have. This way, you could click it, and the app would rotate and show the reverse side where all the preference settings could be found.

"Blocks"
-----------------
I think it would be neat if apps were integrated into blocks, or "cubes."

For example, there could be an iWork 'cube' or block; opening the application would present you with the usual "what would you like to make: document, presentation, etc" options.

Clicking "presentation" would make the block rotate and expose the side which has the presentation software, Keynote, and all its features.

There would be a new icon that would let you go back to the selection side of the block, or browse to another side, such as the Pages side, in this example.

This could also work for iLife, having iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb all being "sides" of one cube. Still seperate apps, but the way you access them would change. Opening iTunes would not cause iPhoto and all other iApps to open as well - only browsing to that app's side of the cube would open the app.

Closing the app would cause it to rotate back to the orignal one you opened, or you could browse between sides without closing any that you've opened.

Even further, there could be a 'Create a block' feature, where you could select up to 6 apps and compose your own block and give it a title.

For example, I would like a "Most used" block, which would have Firefox on one side, iTunes on another.

There would be an additional feature which would let you spin and rotate blocks similar to expose' that so you can look at what is on them without accessing each side individualy. Expose' would be revamped to be "block-aware" to show all sides of all blocks when accessed.

It could go even further to introduce 'Smart Blocks' which automatically update to recognize the applications you access most, least, or are related (a photography apps block, a writing block, a web block, etc).

Combining 6 apps into 1 rotatable block would be huge for saving screen space and increasing productivity. Sides of blocks could be 'detached' or unfolded at any time,so you could see two sides next to each other at once.

The uses for this I think would be limitless.
Geez, that's a good idea! Someody needs to develop sething like that. Would you mind if I tried to?


On a totally different note, will WWDC be available in quicktime? I'm at camp during WWDC.

[wmmk]

As I've said in other threads -- I hope Leopard will include this window switching feature in addition to the application switcher (which is activated with the "Command+tab" keystroke combination by default in Tiger):
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25972
looks neat. i believe a program called witch can actually do that.

[GodBless]

Geez, that's a good idea! Someody needs to develop sething like that. Would you mind if I tried to?I don't think it would do too much for productivity so you'd be wasting your time -- at least in my opinion (unless it could be designed where productivity was better than it is now).

On a totally different note, will WWDC be available in quicktime? I'm at camp during WWDC.It should be available for at least a week or two after the event (like it usually is with Apple's product presentation events).

[GodBless]

looks neat. i believe a program called witch can actually do that.That program does it a little bit differently (and less effectively, in my opinion, because it does it by window instead of application) and plus the name is inappropriate so it is a bad alternative. Also third party software is worse than what is built-in to the system.

[wmmk]

That program does it a little bit differently (and less effectively, in my opinion, because it does it by window instead of application) and plus the name is inappropriate so it is a bad alternative. Also third party software is worse than what is built-in to the system.
sorry, but how is the word "witch" inappropriate?

[Chundles]

sorry, but how is the word "witch" inappropriate?

Don't get him started on this. Just let it go.

[GodBless]

sorry, but how is the word "witch" inappropriate?

Don't get him started on this. Just let it go....Or visit this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531). I am happy to take any further questions in that thread -- but we better not get this one side tracked. ;)

[bousozoku]

sorry, but how is the word "witch" inappropriate?

Please don't him started again.

[pknz]

I hope Apple has something big up its sleeve for Leopard, for me 10.4 wasn't as big as it could have been.

On a side note, GodBless if you have more to add to a topic, just edit your post, dont post several posts. Just looks like you wanna increase your post count.

[Timepass]

This much (http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/over200.html) and more (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=121365) was new in Tiger and plus 10.5 will be a major release (since it is a ".5" release it as has got to be huge). Don't underestimate Apple's OS design ability. Microsoft won't be able to match it -- for sure.

boy some one kind of think apple all powerful and might.

Just because it is a .5 release that doesnt not mean Crap. Apple "New OS" have become very mondan. It not like tiger was released that long ago. Apple runs on about a 18 month cycle on its OS.

I said since Expose the features apple seems to brag about and push have not really been that flashy or really are attention getters. They seem very gimicy at best for the newer ones but they havent really added anything new.

Releasing it near Vista means next to none press coverage. No one out side apple fans are really going to give a hoot. And even a lot of apple fans are going to be more intersted in the new on vista than leapord.

Vista is huge. XP will be 6 years old by that point in time. Vista is adding a lot of new features and new looks windows.

Vista is on the grounds of OS 9 to OSX. It is a huge thing for most of the computing world.

So lets see the choice bettween some big in the computer world (vista) or something that has become very routine and boring (OSX). Not a hard choice. 10.5 can not compete press wise to Vista. It going to be small frieds. APples new OS have become very small fries in the press because they happen so offen. It was what 1 year ago when tiger came out and now leapod is what talk about. Apple releases new OS way to fast and people are starting to care less about it. You hardly have time to get adjusted to the new one befor already looking for the next one.

[ezekielrage_99]

I can't wait to see what Apple has cooked up for us with Leopard because I was thoroughly impressed with the initial release for Tiger.

1 month to go I really do think Apple will impress us...... well I hope so

[GodBless]

boy some one kind of think apple all powerful and might.

Just because it is a .5 release that doesnt not mean Crap. Apple "New OS" have become very mondan. It not like tiger was released that long ago. Apple runs on about a 18 month cycle on its OS.

I said since Expose the features apple seems to brag about and push have not really been that flashy or really are attention getters. They seem very gimicy at best for the newer ones but they havent really added anything new.

Releasing it near Vista means next to none press coverage. No one out side apple fans are really going to give a hoot. And even a lot of apple fans are going to be more intersted in the new on vista than leapord.

Vista is huge. XP will be 6 years old by that point in time. Vista is adding a lot of new features and new looks windows.

Vista is on the grounds of OS 9 to OSX. It is a huge thing for most of the computing world.

So lets see the choice bettween some big in the computer world (vista) or something that has become very routine and boring (OSX). Not a hard choice. 10.5 can not compete press wise to Vista. It going to be small frieds. APples new OS have become very small fries in the press because they happen so offen. It was what 1 year ago when tiger came out and now leapod is what talk about. Apple releases new OS way to fast and people are starting to care less about it. You hardly have time to get adjusted to the new one befor already looking for the next one.I hope you're joking. Not only is Vista going to be less than Tiger (at most) but a Mac is already a Windows capable machine so Apple knows what it is competing against and is confident in OS X's ability compared to Windows Vista. The reason why Microsoft has delayed Vista so many times is because the people at Microsoft are frantically trying to keep up with OS X. Once Microsoft figured out that they wouldn't be able to do it they gave up and set a release date for January -- the same time that Apple is going to release Leopard. I bet Microsoft's goal is to cover up Apple's OS but Steve Jobs is a smart man -- he will blow the world away with his revolutionary OS and will get plenty of press coverage for it -- trust me. ;)

[aswitcher]

I wonder if Apple will finally start doing streaming of their keynotes.

[VanNess]

Vista is on the grounds of OS 9 to OSX.

Not a chance. OS X was a complete rewrite of the OS from the ground up. Microsoft pretended the same when Longhorn was announced, but by the time it was called Vista, it was hardly the "bet the company" rewrite of Windows that was originally promised. Much of Windows legacy is still present and accounted for in Vista, including, unfortunately, the system registry and activeX controls. For better or for worse, Vista is essentially Windows NT 6 in a pretty suit.

Well, it's pretty (or it's supposed to be) if you have so-called Vista-capable guts inside your PC for Vista's Aqua..err, I mean Arrow...err, I mean Aero interface. If not, well I hear there is still plenty of time to save up.

It's a big thing for Microsoft, but for the rest of the computing world it depends on what Vista really brings to the table. If it proves to be another spyware/malware/virus infested release (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1983037,00.asp), the hype will likely fade rather quickly.

[VanNess]

One of the longest sustaining rumors about Leopard was (is?) the inclusion of some sort of native virtualization technology for running Windows along the lines of Parallels as a successor to Bootcamp. Lately, however, Apple has been actively hyping Parallels in place of it's own home grown Bootcamp in ads, and along with this article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/20060707/tc_macworld/windowsmac20060707;_ylt=AqYa7dYhesHrXQK8N0Y2pXQxVrIF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNlYwN5bnN1YmNhdA--) I ran across today, it may be time to finally put the Windows virtualization rumor in Leopard to bed.

From the article:

I had a talk with Phil Schiller at the opening of the 5th Avenue Apple Store, and I asked him the question, ‘will Apple include a virtualization solution in [the next version of Mac OS X] Leopard.’ He said ‘absolutely not, the R&D would be prohibitive and we’re not going to do it. Our solution is dual boot.’

[MacBoobsPro]

I'd like to see 2 new features, regarding preferences, and something I call "blocks."

Preferences
----------------
Rather than going to the menu and selecting 'Preferences,' I think it would be neat if each app had an icon similar to the one widgets have. This way, you could click it, and the app would rotate and show the reverse side where all the preference settings could be found.

"Blocks"
-----------------
I think it would be neat if apps were integrated into blocks, or "cubes."

For example, there could be an iWork 'cube' or block; opening the application would present you with the usual "what would you like to make: document, presentation, etc" options.

Clicking "presentation" would make the block rotate and expose the side which has the presentation software, Keynote, and all its features.

There would be a new icon that would let you go back to the selection side of the block, or browse to another side, such as the Pages side, in this example.

This could also work for iLife, having iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, iWeb all being "sides" of one cube. Still seperate apps, but the way you access them would change. Opening iTunes would not cause iPhoto and all other iApps to open as well - only browsing to that app's side of the cube would open the app.

Closing the app would cause it to rotate back to the orignal one you opened, or you could browse between sides without closing any that you've opened.

Even further, there could be a 'Create a block' feature, where you could select up to 6 apps and compose your own block and give it a title.

For example, I would like a "Most used" block, which would have Firefox on one side, iTunes on another.

There would be an additional feature which would let you spin and rotate blocks similar to expose' that so you can look at what is on them without accessing each side individualy. Expose' would be revamped to be "block-aware" to show all sides of all blocks when accessed.

It could go even further to introduce 'Smart Blocks' which automatically update to recognize the applications you access most, least, or are related (a photography apps block, a writing block, a web block, etc).

Combining 6 apps into 1 rotatable block would be huge for saving screen space and increasing productivity. Sides of blocks could be 'detached' or unfolded at any time,so you could see two sides next to each other at once.

The uses for this I think would be limitless.

Its a nice idea but isnt that adding uneccesary complication to accessing an app? If i understand you correctly, first of all you would need to locate the app cube to access then keep clicking on sides until you find the app you wanted then click it to open the app. Thats is a minimum of 3 clicks. Personally I think one click in the dock (or somewhere) is the way to go. From the desktop image you posted it seems you like complicated stuff :D my desktop has no icons on it except for my nano and minimax when they are turned on. And if i could I would make those icons not appear on the desktop aswell as I use them through apps anyway. Maybe thats what I would like to see in Leopard, total control over icons appearing on the desktop. i.e. no HDs etc as they are accessible through the finder window and apps.

[stunna]

I think you're really missing something here. Visual BASIC is also much easier than Visual C++, if you're only dabbling. However, when it comes down to it, realistic developers don't use VB to develop serious applications--they use VC++. If they like the drag-and-drop way of doing things that VB made popular, they can use 3 different Borland environments, which aren't nearly as quirky.

I still find Windows tools to be better thought out because there is competition, but Xcode is a very good set of tools that's no more difficult than VC++ and provides some very interesting ways of doing things. It makes you do good design work so you don't have to fix things later in the code the way you often do in Windows.

For Leopard, I'm hoping that the Unified Look is everywhere--no more pinstripes and brushed metal, please.

I'm also hoping that the base of the system improves. It would be nice if Apple would support ZFS and some popular Linux-based file systems to make transitions easier. It would probably pull more developers their way.

I'm sure we'll see a huge performance increase for the Intel side. I'm hoping that, with Tevanian gone, they've gone with a new, radically improved kernel. It would be truly sweet to see 3 and 4 year old PowerPC machines running as fast on Leopard as the final PowerPC machines run on Tiger. Everytime I see a comparison on Linux vs. BSD vs. Darwin, I cringe because Apple's kernel is way too slow.
Where can I see kernel comparisons.
How do you measure kernel performance?

[Timepass]

I hope you're joking. Not only is Vista going to be less than Tiger (at most) but a Mac is already a Windows capable machine so Apple knows what it is competing against and is confident in OS X's ability compared to Windows Vista. The reason why Microsoft has delayed Vista so many times is because the people at Microsoft are frantically trying to keep up with OS X. Once Microsoft figured out that they wouldn't be able to do it they gave up and set a release date for January -- the same time that Apple is going to release Leopard. I bet Microsoft's goal is to cover up Apple's OS but Steve Jobs is a smart man -- he will blow the world away with his revolutionary OS and will get plenty of press coverage for it -- trust me. ;)



What are you smoking. It doesnt matter if Tiger is better than Vista. It doesnt change the fact that news wise Vista is huge. leapod is small fries and old news and is routian mondain thing.
The fact that XP is being replace after almost 6 years and that Vista has been delayed so many times and it is finally out is what makes it news.
Leapard is oh look another apple OS. It starting to look like apple is becoming more money grubbing with it. It another one and they are adding less and less with each one. Not any really big new feature.

Leapod compared to tiger is not anything big. Vista compared to XP is a huge diffence. hence the reason it is going to be big press wise and apple putting anything out near vista means zero press.

Get that though your head and get off the apple is the best thing ever and look at it from a news stand point.

[Blue Velvet]

Windows promotional efforts regarding Vista will be far in excess of those used for Windows 95. This is what they've said and for those that can remember it, it was pretty extensive at the time... they seem to really throw their weight behind key releases that are strategically important.

On the other hand, Leopard just will not register on most people's radars... it's only recently that Apple have dipped their toes back into TV advertising again.

[Applespider]

Leapod compared to tiger is not anything big. Vista compared to XP is a huge diffence. hence the reason it is going to be big press wise and apple putting anything out near vista means zero press.


I do agree that Vista will be much bigger news than Leopard but I think it depends on what kind of coverage Apple want.

Launch it in 2006 and the PR team can spout the pre-Vista again line and when the inevitable Vista v OS X comparisons start up the press (and I do believe that there will be more of them this time around than for previous Windows releases since there is more Apple awareness in the media even if not in the general consumer) are going newest v newest. Those Xmas consumers wanting new computers might just buy a latest and greatest Apple v a Windows machine they have to run a system update on in January.

Launch it at the same time as Vista. You won't get 'exclusive' Leopard articles but then again, how many of those were you going to pick up anyhow. You're more likely to get the comparison articles if they're released at the same time because every journo loves being able to write an x against y battlefront article.

Launch it later than Vista. Depends on how Vista is being perceived; if it's proving wildly popular, if the security is there, if the performance is there, then launching Leopard then could be a bad thing. The comparison articles will suggest that OS X is catching up to Vista. If Vista isn't being received well, then you'll get some great coverage.

[Josh]

Geez, that's a good idea! Someody needs to develop sething like that. Would you mind if I tried to?


Thanks!

If you can develop something like that, please do :)

I'd love to, but I don't have the know-how for something like that. As long as someone makes it, and makes it well, I think it would be a good feature for everyone.

[GodBless]

Thanks!

If you can develop something like that, please do :)

I'd love to, but I don't have the know-how for something like that. As long as someone makes it, and makes it well, I think it would be a good feature for everyone.I wouldn't mind seeing the feature implemented either.

[Donz0r]

I hope you're joking. Not only is Vista going to be less than Tiger (at most) but a Mac is already a Windows capable machine so Apple knows what it is competing against and is confident in OS X's ability compared to Windows Vista. The reason why Microsoft has delayed Vista so many times is because the people at Microsoft are frantically trying to keep up with OS X. Once Microsoft figured out that they wouldn't be able to do it they gave up and set a release date for January -- the same time that Apple is going to release Leopard. I bet Microsoft's goal is to cover up Apple's OS but Steve Jobs is a smart man -- he will blow the world away with his revolutionary OS and will get plenty of press coverage for it -- trust me. ;)

...Did you even read what he wrote?!?!

[Timepass]

...Did you even read what he wrote?!?!


Oh he read it but didnt understand it.

He saw Vista is going to be big. leapord going to be small.
He completley missed why I said Vista is going to be big in the press and Leapord going to be small.

He just say Vista is bigger than leapord. And missed everything inbettween. Get used to it. He is blinded by being a apple fan and not seeing anything that expalins other wise.

[GodBless]

Oh he read it but didnt understand it.

He saw Vista is going to be big. leapord going to be small.
He completley missed why I said Vista is going to be big in the press and Leapord going to be small.

He just say Vista is bigger than leapord. And missed everything inbettween. Get used to it. He is blinded by being a apple fan and not seeing anything that expalins other wise.Don't think I'm that stupid. ;)

I used to be a Windows user and laughed at the Mac users until I learned the truth. :o Now that I know the truth I can judge the OS game from both sides. I've studied Vista for quite some time now and I know that it is nothing but a small, poorly designed and incremental OS. It is nothing like the amazing and huge OS 9 to OS X transition. Windows is still built off of it's flimsy and vulnerable 3.1 design but OS X is nothing like it's previous OS 9 (and below) "sibling" -- OS X replaced the foundation of the OS design and user experience by building it from scratch. Vista doesn't do that it continues from where it left off. Windows keeps getting bulkier and bulkier and in the process uglier and uglier (because of it's inconsistencies). It's ridiculous to think otherwise. :rolleyes:

[Chundles]

Don't think I'm that stupid. ;)

I used to be a Windows user and laughed at the Mac users until I learned the truth. :o Now that I know the truth I can judge the OS game from both sides. I've studied Vista for quite some time now and I know that it is nothing but a small, poorly designed and incremental OS.

Yet for 99.99% of Windows users out there it will be the only Operating System released in the next 12 months. Most don't know about or even care about 10.5 Just as Steve could polish a turd to a high gloss, put it in a box and sell it to Mac zealots for US$199, MS could put a bucket of vomit in a box, call it Windows Spew, announce it as the next version of Windows and it will fly off the shelves.

The vast majority of computer users out there aren't even going to glance at the tiny column dedicated to 10.5 in the tech section of the paper. Compared with the Vista launch, 10.5 is nothing.

Don't get me wrong, 10.5 will (hopefully) be way better than Vista (Vista does some things a lot better than Tiger right now, mostly to do with Media and entertainment) and I'll be lining up for it as soon as I can. I don't care two hoots about Vista but in terms of how much attention this is going to get and how important it is for Microsoft, Vista is going to get all the looks.

Apple has to fight tooth and nail for every percentage point of market share it can claw back, all MS has to do is keep everyone unaware and scared of the options (which face it, they do well) to keep their massive market share.

[GodBless]

Yet for 99.99% of Windows users out there it will be the only Operating System released in the next 12 months. Most don't know about or even care about 10.5 Just as Steve could polish a turd to a high gloss, put it in a box and sell it to Mac zealots for US$199, MS could put a bucket of vomit in a box, call it Windows Spew, announce it as the next version of Windows and it will fly off the shelves.

The vast majority of computer users out there aren't even going to glance at the tiny column dedicated to 10.5 in the tech section of the paper. Compared with the Vista launch, 10.5 is nothing.

Don't get me wrong, 10.5 will (hopefully) be way better than Vista (Vista does some things a lot better than Tiger right now, mostly to do with Media and entertainment) and I'll be lining up for it as soon as I can. I don't care two hoots about Vista but in terms of how much attention this is going to get and how important it is for Microsoft, Vista is going to get all the looks.

Apple has to fight tooth and nail for every percentage point of market share it can claw back, all MS has to do is keep everyone unaware and scared of the options (which face it, they do well) to keep their massive market share.I agree. I am almost sure Windows Vista will get more press coverage, but others in this thread shouldn't think Leopard won't get much press coverage at all. I am sure that it will get plenty of it and because of it Mac users will be on the rise. ;)

From the usability and efficiency standpoint of Tiger vs. Leopard -- Leopard wins. Many people like a fundamentally solid OS but Vista won't compete with OS X that way. Whenever Windows is updated it keeps too many old and rusty features so that people don't have to learn all the new and better ways of the OS if they don't want to. Apple has a different approach. OS X and other new Apple software is built from scratch using the latest technologies so that they run fast, smoothly and effectively -- it gets rid of all of those old and useless ways of doing things that are buggy, have security holes and make the OS and software bulky. Windows includes both a candle and a light bulb it also includes an outhouse and a toilet. It is a very cluttered and useless OS having old and new technologies everywhere.

[Timepass]

Don't think I'm that stupid. ;)

I used to be a Windows user and laughed at the Mac users until I learned the truth. :o Now that I know the truth I can judge the OS game from both sides. I've studied Vista for quite some time now and I know that it is nothing but a small, poorly designed and incremental OS. It is nothing like the amazing and huge OS 9 to OS X transition. Windows is still built off of it's flimsy and vulnerable 3.1 design but OS X is nothing like it's previous OS 9 (and below) "sibling" -- OS X replaced the foundation of the OS design and user experience by building it from scratch. Vista doesn't do that it continues from where it left off. Windows keeps getting bulkier and bulkier and in the process uglier and uglier (because of it's inconsistencies). It's ridiculous to think otherwise. :rolleyes:
doesnt change the fact that vista is huge for press and a big media stuff
Leapod is not anything big news and press wise. It old news and routine release and not big. You been faililng to relieze that and why it bed to release leapod at the same time or around Vista. Doing that means hardly any press for leapord.

[Dasmo]

doesnt change the fact that vista is huge for press and a big media stuff
Leapod is not anything big news and press wise. It old news and routine release and not big. You been faililng to relieze that and why it bed to release leapod at the same time or around Vista. Doing that means hardly any press for leapord.

It won't be a proportionate amount of the news that leopard takes though. For a company that has ~5% market share, they will still take around 20-30% of the press coverage on OS releases etc. That's because Apple news rates better than Windows news.

In the newspaper I read (Australian Financial Review) it'd seem like Windows has 50% of the market because the tech section always has half MS half Apple stuff. Obviously it's more interesting to say "Apple and Microsoft go head to head with next generation OS's" than it is to say "Microsoft launches Vista".

[bousozoku]

doesnt change the fact that vista is huge for press and a big media stuff
Leapod is not anything big news and press wise. It old news and routine release and not big. You been faililng to relieze that and why it bed to release leapod at the same time or around Vista. Doing that means hardly any press for leapord.

I don't think Vista will diminish the press about Leopard simply because Apple is news. Sure, you'll see local news reports about people standing outside stores at midnight to buy Leopard, but it's more to make geeks in general look like idiots to the general public, not about Microsoft's latest, greatest accomplishment.

If anything, there will be a small footnote on every news item about Vista that Leopard is out there, too. The rivalry may increase the coverage. Of course, I expect that they'll get most everything wrong about Mac OS X and everything right about Windows but that's typical. ;)

[GodBless]

Obviously it's more interesting to say "Apple and Microsoft go head to head with next generation OS's" than it is to say "Microsoft launches Vista".Exactly -- so it could end up helping Mac OS X. :D

[Timepass]

In the newspaper I read (Australian Financial Review) it'd seem like Windows has 50% of the market because the tech section always has half MS half Apple stuff. Obviously it's more interesting to say "Apple and Microsoft go head to head with next generation OS's" than it is to say "Microsoft launches Vista".


Ok the newpapers would list either one launching there OS. But any coverage on the OS itself is going to be on vista. Apple not going to really get much at all. It get even less than if it launch on it own away from vista.

[steviem]

Vista is more gimmicky than OSX, their use of transparency and how it is implemented highlights this.

I think MS is overusing Transparency to hide where it has failed, namely not implementing WinFS, but they keep on doing this.

I like the way Mac OS is updated, it isnt as frequent as some Linux Distros, but is the right frequency I think.

The only thing I want Apple to put into Leopard this time is to get FrontRow working as a true media centre with digital tv integrated into its interface. (When using a dvb card...)

I like the concept of tabs, and I think Tabbed Finder would be intuitive, just it can only really be a minor improvement in 10.5 and not a main feature. Although I thought they were thinking of scrapping finder with a more Spotlight-centric system.

Re blocks....I'd patent that if I was you, otherwise Big Steve and his boys will be pinching it from you for nowt!!

[Josh]

I wouldn't mind seeing the feature implemented either.

I thought you felt it would be a "waste of time" for developers?

(first post, page 2)

[emotion]

The fact that XP is being replace after almost 6 years and that Vista has been delayed so many times and it is finally out is what makes it news.

You do realise that Vista won't be released until this time next year don't you? It's only the beta that's out right now.

[emotion]

...here is what is currently 128-bit now:



Most people don't need 64 bit apps right now (apart from some scientific applications), let alone 128 bit. Higher "bitness" does not equate to higher performance despite what some marketting departments might have us believe.

[Timepass]

You do realise that Vista won't be released until this time next year don't you? It's only the beta that's out right now.

Speculation on that part. Last time I check they where stil on track for the 1Q release in 07

[emotion]

Speculation on that part. Last time I check they where stil on track for the 1Q release in 07


They are not exactly known for keeping to release schedules though are they? Without dropping any more features (they have to have the strong DRM in as that is what differentiates it with Vista Business) I find it hard to believe we'll see it in 1Q. 2Q 2007 or later is a lot more realistic.

We will see however, won't we?

[savar]

From the perspective of a developer I really want apple to take a few pages out of microsofts book with visual studio, the key to creating a platform is application support, and thats the one place where M$ has a huge advantage over apple. Ive dabbled with XCode, and it is nowhere near as easy as even VB6.

XCode/IB is really easy, the best I've ever seen. Sure its not a VB or RealBasic, where you really do point-and-click things together, but I think that's a good thing. The fewer non-programmers schlocking carp together to distribute to the masses, the better. Not to discourage people from trying, but you should have some basic understanding of the discipline of software develop before you distribute softare.

I have had the dubious honor or maintaining some PHP code written by other developers, and sadly the things that make PHP so easy to get up and running are the same things that let illiterate developers make bad applications work. No error checking, no discipline, no commenting. Sure, you can do that in any language, but hopefully learning a stricter language first will imbue stricter discipline in the developer.

Sorry to go so off-topic..

[savar]

...Or visit this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=214531). I am happy to take any further questions in that thread -- but we better not get this one side tracked. ;)

hilarious thread, thanks for linking

[GodBless]

I thought you felt it would be a "waste of time" for developers?

(first post, page 2)Well sort of -- however I can't judge an idea without seeing it fully implemented -- this is why I was interested again. If a programmer sees the goodness of the idea then it is worth a try to implement.

My cynical bias comes from this video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cz_2vKq5cZk&search=Xgl) of xgl.

I didn't mean to be too critical of your idea if this video's concept isn't quite what you had in mind. Don't get me wrong I do see good in this video but I think the distortion of the cube effect and time-wasting waiting for it to rotate would take away from the usability of the feature. I think time delay and distortion are both enemies of a good OS (and good OS features at that). However I do think that xgl is better than OS X in many ways (at least from videos). Xgl has a lot of "pretty" and some "usefulness" and overall I think it is good -- I just don't like the time wasted and distortion elements -- otherwise it is great.

[GodBless]

hilarious threadI know! :D

thanks for linkingSure. No problem. ;)

[Josh]

Well sort of -- however I can't judge an idea without seeing it fully implemented -- this is why I was interested again. If a programmer sees the goodness of the idea then it is worth a try to implement.

My cynical bias comes from this video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cz_2vKq5cZk&search=Xgl) of xgl.

I didn't mean to be too critical of your idea if this video's concept isn't quite what you had in mind. Don't get me wrong I do see good in this video but I think the distortion of the cube effect and time-wasting waiting for it to rotate would take away from the usability of the feature. I think time delay and distortion are both enemies of a good OS (and good OS features at that). However I do think that xgl is better than OS X in many ways (at least from videos). Xgl has a lot of "pretty" and some "usefulness" and overall I think it is good -- I just don't like the time wasted and distortion elements -- otherwise it is great.

I see your point, and definitely agree that there could be time wasted.

But I think that video is to show it off more, so they spend more time rotating it and showing it as much as possible for the "wow" factor. Actual use would be unnoticiable, I bet.

Multiple desktops are one thing I really miss in OS X (I've tried the freeware apps). And I think it would be totally "un-Apple" if the next desktop just "appeared" without any kind of transition or animation. Take the minimize function for example. It could appear in the dock automaticallly, but instead it shrinks and slides down into it. Takes a little time - but I haven't heard any complaints for people waiting for it and wasting productivity because of it. It's just a nice metaphor that makes rational sense. If a minimized app goes to the dock, it has to have some way of going from the big window on the desktop to the small icon in the dock. The genie effect is perfect.

My idea for "Blocks" extends upon the same great functionality that multiple desktops have and brings it to related apps. I just think it makes sense to group similar apps together (and/or in a user-defined way). Not so they becom one app, but so that using them together becomes easier and more metaphorically meaningful - something that just makes sense. I'm imagining a very quick rotate animation for the cube to switch to a new side. Slow enough to notice, but quick enough that it will in no way get in the way of your work - but without any kind of animation, it loses that 'rational' connection from point a to b.

[BoyBach]

Don't get him started on this. Just let it go.

How do I get a refund!!

I've just spent two hours reading the thread & it's driven me to crack open a cold can of Murphy's ;)

[GodBless]

How do I get a refund!!I guess that is what people will start asking you since you linked them to it in your quote. ;) I think it's a good thread and worthy of reading though.

[BoyBach]

I guess that is what people will start asking you since you linked them to it in your quote. ;) I think it's a good thread and worthy of reading though.

It certainly was an entertaining/amusing/slightly frightening read!

But hey, I've found a cool new site (the church Sign Generator) :D

[Sharewaredemon]

GodBless, do you know that Command ` cycles between open windows in an application?

Having a gui of each window would be really cool (like you want) but I wasn't sure if you knew you could already do it... sort of.

Also, you mentioned mutliple desktops and how they are "un-Apple" but there is a virtual desktop application (that is free) that allows for qwartz based transitions between screens.

Of course I can't find it now.....

[GodBless]

GodBless, do you know that Command ` cycles between open windows in an application?

Having a gui of each window would be really cool (like you want) but I wasn't sure if you knew you could already do it... sort of.Yeah I did -- thanks anyway.

Also, you mentioned mutliple desktops and how they are "un-Apple" but there is a virtual desktop application (that is free) that allows for qwartz based transitions between screens.

Of course I can't find it now.....Well actually I never meant to imply (if I did) that they were un-Apple -- and I trust Apple will design the feature well once it gets around to it -- but I think desktop switching could be useful for many things if it was designed right.

I've never tried 3rd party desktop switchers -- after "trying" desktop switching out on Yellow Dog Linux I've never been too interested in the feature enough to 3rd party it onto my system -- however I realize that there could be desktop switchers out there for the Mac OS that I'd find useful because of their design.

[GodBless]

It certainly was an entertaining/amusing/slightly frightening read!I'm glad you found it interesting.

But hey, I've found a cool new site (the church Sign Generator) :DIt is a real gem isn't it. ;)

[BoyBach]

1. I really like the idea of iChat including some sort of VOIP.
2. Spotlight version 2.
3. Front Row version 2 (not sure if this would be a Leopard feature or not?)
4. Some new widgets :D
5. An improved iCal app.

Oh yeah, and "One More Thing..." :D

[GodBless]

1. I really like the idea of iChat including some sort of VOIP.
2. Spotlight version 2.
3. Front Row version 2 (not sure if this would be a Leopard feature or not?)
4. Some new widgets :D
5. An improved iCal app.

Oh yeah, and "One More Thing..." :DI don't think I could have said it better. :)

Very good list. :cool:

1. I really like the idea of iChat including some sort of VOIP.Yeah, and I wouldn't be surprised if Apple would release their iPhone along with it at MWSF. ;) :D

2. Spotlight version 2.Jackpot! This is exactly what everyone is waiting for -- lets hope for the best.

3. Front Row version 2 (not sure if this would be a Leopard feature or not?)It would be awesome if Front Row was part of Leopard.

4. Some new widgets :D Or at least an update to Dashboard and it's features would be nice. Perhaps updates to what widgets can do too?

5. An improved iCal app.Oh yes -- let's just hope that the first version (bugs and all) of the (hopefully) "major" update will work (overall) as well or better than iCal does now.

I'll be happy to leap onward with Leop-ard. ;)

Edit:
Oh yeah, and "One More Thing..." :D How I missed this I don't know but what I do know is that we should see "One more thing" times 5!

I am looking forward for Apple's best OS yet and I'm also looking forward to them being a lot further ahead of Microsoft Windows Vista too. :D

That would be cool!

[sunfast]

I'm certainly looking forward to the Leopard release. A new OS always gives a computer a new lease of life. I fully expect Leopard to have some cool tricks up its sleeve to drag some coverage away from Vista. It'll be fun waiting and speculating until then.

Out of interest, will the preview list all of the new features? Or will several crop up between then and release?

[Timepass]

I always found the multiple desktop thing very gimmiky and not very useful. I tried it and didnt like it. Mind you I have a friend who swears by it and loves it.

Windows XP users have been able to do it since 2001-2002 (when ever M$ releases the powertoy for it). I tried it and didnt like it. It work great and everything but I just never found it that useful for me.

Hmm now that is something I would like Apple to reliease. Something like M$ windows powertoys. Nice little add on to the OS that are created later. Opitional installs and not really required.

For example some of M$ XP powertoys I like

TweakUI (lets the users do a lot of little changes to the OS it self, how short cuts look, how long is hover time and quite a bit of little things, Makes it a lot more custimizible)

Image resize (Lets me resize pictures in bulk very quickly and easily. it high light all the fills I want and right click, choose resizee image and from there I can have it resize the orginal, or make a new copy of it. I find my self using it quite a bit siding pictures to finds and home. I keep the oringal 2-4Megepix file but i resize them down to 800x600 or 1024x724 to email or aim to friends).

Open comand promp (open a compan promp window any where not really that useful)

Cleary type (font smoothing add on for XP that in repeated reviews is stated to be better than the one apple uses but basicly a really nice font smoothing add on)

and there are a lot more. those are just the ones I really use. TweakUI and Clear Type are the most popular 2

I would love to see apple start offering thing like that to user later on.

[Patch^]

Like what? It reminds me of the Mac commercial (linked here (http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/apple/getamac_ads1/ilife_480x376.mov)):
"PC: Calculator; Mac: That's cool; anything else?; PC: Clock." :D

Mac OS X is revenue for Apple and so is iLife. Try telling Microsoft to include Office with Vista. :rolleyes:

This iLife/OS X integration has been discussed long ago when the Tiger release was around the corner (linked here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=115630)).

Have you tried Vista? It has a lot of applications very similar if not exactly the same, they have an application almost identical to iPhoto, they have a movie editor, DVD creator and media player. Only thing that is missing at the moment is an iWeb related application. Plus they are all really good apps just as good as iLife and dare I say at times better? Plus with Microsoft you can download the latest versions for free, even XP users can download IE7, where as people on panther are stuck on Safari 1.2 etc. if you know what I mean.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/experiences/default.mspx

The Mac advert about cool apps like calculator etc is going to be made redundant when Vista comes out. Because of its new cool applications! lol even if they are a rip of iLife.

I fully comprehend that iLife is extra revenue for Apple, but I think it would be useful and a better if iLife became apart of the OS and its not like including Microsoft Office as you say, that’s a completely different type of app.

You only get iLife when you by a Mac not when you upgrade the OS. I read an article in PC Magazine (UK) about 2 months ago. Where they compared Vista to Tiger and Vista won because of its included applications, where as tiger only had QuickTime, Safari lol.

It's just an idea.

[bousozoku]

...
I fully comprehend that iLife is extra revenue for Apple, but I think it would be useful and a better if iLife became apart of the OS and its not like including Microsoft Office as you say, that’s a completely different type of app.
...

They need to keep themselves away from bundling applications to keep 3rd party developers happy.

[GodBless]

Out of interest, will the preview list all of the new features? Or will several crop up between then and release?I think Apple will add features after the preview (like it did with Tiger) -- plus Steve Jobs and his crew can't preview all of them that they've made by WWDC in their short presentation.

[GodBless]

Hmm now that is something I would like Apple to reliease. Something like M$ windows powertoys. Nice little add on to the OS that are created later. Opitional installs and not really required.

For example some of M$ XP powertoys I like

TweakUI (lets the users do a lot of little changes to the OS it self, how short cuts look, how long is hover time and quite a bit of little things, Makes it a lot more custimizible)That's what 3rd party software is for.

Image resize (Lets me resize pictures in bulk very quickly and easily. it high light all the fills I want and right click, choose resizee image and from there I can have it resize the orginal, or make a new copy of it. I find my self using it quite a bit siding pictures to finds and home. I keep the oringal 2-4Megepix file but i resize them down to 800x600 or 1024x724 to email or aim to friends).Automator can already do that.

Cleary type (font smoothing add on for XP that in repeated reviews is stated to be better than the one apple uses but basicly a really nice font smoothing add on)I doubt that -- macs are made for graphic designers and other artists -- how a mac displays text is very important and I doubt it would be better in Windows.

[GodBless]

Because of its new cool applications! lol even if they are a rip of iLife.If they are a rip off of iLife then no one is going to be impressed -- that's not innovation that is copying.

I fully comprehend that iLife is extra revenue for Apple, but I think it would be useful and a better if iLife became apart of the OS and its not like including Microsoft Office as you say, that’s a completely different type of app.

You only get iLife when you by a Mac not when you upgrade the OS.Sounds Exactly like Office -- most PC users get Office with their new PC but it is not upgraded when they buy a new version of Windows.

I read an article in PC Magazine (UK) about 2 months ago. Where they compared Vista to Tiger and Vista won because of its included applications, where as tiger only had QuickTime, Safari lol.Wow you mean that Applications were the most important factor in the OS comparison article? I guess the author had to make Vista win somehow so he/she tried to cover up Tiger's superiority with a lame excuse like how many Applications it has. :rolleyes: What about the rest of the OS design? I bet the author ignored the fundamentals. Ignorant PC users might believe the author is fair but not me.

[theBB]

I can think of a lot of incremental improvements. Finder lacks some basic features, such as cut and paste, that I would appreciate. Multisession burning through Finder would be very useful, too. I guess Spotlight could improve its usability as well. However, I don't see myself paying $130 for these changes. Apple needs much much more to hang on to its marketshare, let alone increase it. I switched from XP, because Tiger had more features and it worked much more smoothly than my current XP laptop. However, if Vista and OSX becomes comparable, then Apple's only advantage would be better design for its boxes and I don't think that will be good enough.

[theBB]

Leopard has to have revolutionary features. Even when Tiger is so much better than XP, Apple only has 5% marketshare. Can you imagine how much worse it would get if both operating systems were more similar?

I switched, because Tiger had many more features and it ran more smoothly than my XP laptop. You can yell "MS copied those features from Apple" until you get blue in the face, but most consumers would not care that MS implemented them 5 years late. If they both do the same things, why bother switching? I guess MS could still end up making Vista and its bundled apps to be more buggy and less user friendly than OSX+iLife, but Mac's future should not rely on just that.

[Monkaaay]

I'm surprised to hear so much "XCode is just as good as Visual Studio, if not better" chatter in here. Put simply, Visual Studio 2005 is light years ahead of XCode. I use VS 2005 8+ hours a day and I've tried my best to work in XCode. It's just not as easy to use, powerful, nor fully featured. I know Microsoft bashing is the cool thing to do but before you bash Visual Studio at least use it on a regular basis. How funny that someone above talked down on VB6 saying "real developers" don't use it, they use VC++. The icing is that person followed by saying they're not a developer. So glad your experience can clarify that VB6 isn't used to create real applications. :p

[bousozoku]

I'm surprised to hear so much "XCode is just as good as Visual Studio, if not better" chatter in here. Put simply, Visual Studio 2005 is light years ahead of XCode. I use VS 2005 8+ hours a day and I've tried my best to work in XCode. It's just not as easy to use, powerful, nor fully featured. I know Microsoft bashing is the cool thing to do but before you bash Visual Studio at least use it on a regular basis. How funny that someone above talked down on VB6 saying "real developers" don't use it, they use VC++. The icing is that person followed by saying they're not a developer. So glad your experience can clarify that VB6 isn't used to create real applications. :p

I hope you're not complaining about my post because I've been a developer since the early 1980s and I've used a lot of the various DOS and Windows-based products as well as those on Macintosh and OS/2 and other systems. In fact, I used the first Microsoft development product.

Visual BASIC is used to create some terribly pathetic applications. If that makes them real in your world, then, they're real.

[OldCorpse]

Hate to say it, but I don't think Leopard will have any revolutionary features. In fact, I expect to skip it, and get whatever comes after that (i.e. when I buy new gear... I'm not going to update from Tiger on my iBook).

Folks underestimate the change from Panther to Tiger. Yes, on the surface perhaps some felt there weren't many changes, but the biggest change was under the hood. Tiger realiy finalized the kernel. From now on, any changes (unless far into the future like 10 years, where the mach issue might be re-visited), you'll be essentially working with Tiger's guts. So the biggest "under the hood" changes within the OS X system happened from Panther to Tiger.

That's why I'm totally unexcited by Leopard. I merely hope they'll get things that already exist in Tiger to actually work. Spotlight is in dire need of improvement. Disk burning, especially DVD burning is still a disgrace under OS X. FTP... 'nuff said. iCal - what is the point of this app? Does anybody actually use it? It's so badly designed, I think they're better off starting from scratch... it is 100% useless as it stands right now. Safari, still bug-ridden, crash prone, spinning beach ball prone, and falling ever further behind Firefox... I have seen zero improvement of Safari from 10.4 to 10.4.7. Finder... well, I think they need to scrap it and start over, but that won't happen :(. And so on. As it is, I'd be way happier if they fixed Tiger than whatever they'll come up with in Leopard... I expect instead that Leopard will feature tiny improvements to features that already exist, and a couple of undercooked not ready for prime-time new "features" (like Spotlight, tfu, in Tiger). What used to distinguish Apple was the attention to detail, user-friendliness and reliability "it just works"... I'm sad to see them go for the glitz at the cost of bugs and unreliability... reminds me of another company... APPLE! FIX WHAT'S ALREADY OUT FIRST!

[VanNess]

Hate to say it, but I don't think Leopard will have any revolutionary features.

Well, I think it depends on your definition of "revolutionary" as there may be several various interpretations of that word floating around in the near future, including that of the reality distortion field wizard himself - Steve Jobs.

But I do think Apple realizes that, with Vista waiting in the wings, there is going to be a lot more attention paid to this release of OS X, much more attention than has ever been paid in the past since 10.0. And the comparisons to Vista after WWDC are not only a given, they will be fast and furious. I expect that's going to be the topic de jour of tech articles and nerd blogs throughout the net for the remainder of the year. There is going to be a huge amount of attention about this.

In other words, Apple cannot disappoint. Some portion of general public will never pay much attention to this sort of stuff, but opinions from some respected tech reporting are picked up by institutional analysts who will factor in how well Leopard resonates in the coming months in determining whether Apple's stock is worth buying, keeping, or selling. I don't think Apple will want to give them any pause for concern. Leopard has to get up to the plate and hit a home run, because it won't be too much longer before Microsoft starts spending colossal amounts of money to hawk Vista in the media to all the suckers out there. OS X, in some ways, has benefited from Microsoft's past inability to follow-up XP. This time around it's very different.

Folks underestimate the change from Panther to Tiger. Yes, on the surface perhaps some felt there weren't many changes, but the biggest change was under the hood.

That's correct, but they already spent that hype on Tiger. Fine in the days of XP, which trailed in that regard (and to an extent, Vista still trails) but it's still from the look-how-different-we-are-from-XP era of OS X. Apple can parlay those technologies in Leopard, but not rely on previous generation Tiger goodies exclusively and expect that will counter the Vista assault.

I'm sad to see them go for the glitz at the cost of bugs and unreliability... reminds me of another company... APPLE! FIX WHAT'S ALREADY OUT FIRST!

I don't agree with (and in some cases, can't confirm) some of your examples, but I do agree with the overall message. Now would be a good time for Apple to start dotting all of it's i's and crossing all of it's t's in OS X

[Patch^]

If they are a rip off of iLife then no one is going to be impressed -- that's not innovation that is copying.

True, but people who have never heard of OS X and Apple will be.

Sounds Exactly like Office -- most PC users get Office with their new PC but it is not upgraded when they buy a new version of Windows.

Office is a productivity application, not multimedia applications and they don't get Office Bundled with Windows, they some times get Microsoft Works, but I'm not sure if they still make that. Even if they do it's normally due from a Vendor like HP or Dell.

Wow you mean that Applications were the most important factor in the OS comparison article? I guess the author had to make Vista win somehow so he/she tried to cover up Tiger's superiority with a lame excuse like how many Applications it has. :rolleyes: What about the rest of the OS design? I bet the author ignored the fundamentals. Ignorant PC users might believe the author is fair but not me.

No, they judged every part of the OS, GUI, Security and much much more. The thing that made me laugh about it was that they said Windows Vista had better security! lol. The reason OS X scored slightly lower (I think it scored something like 68% where as Vista got 77%) was because of its lack included applications :S. I would try and find the article if I could but I can't find it lol.

I'm talking if you buy a Retail version of Vista or OS X not a computer btw.

Plus I'm not saying Vista is better, I think OS X is and Leopard will be even better, I'm just suggesting it would be nice.

[dongmin]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I'd like to see Google, Wikipedia, IMDB, etc. integrated with Spotlight. And preferably, Spotlight can be activated by voice or jestures, as in: "Computer, What is the capital of Nebraska?"

[GodBless]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I'd like to see Google, Wikipedia, IMDB, etc. integrated with Spotlight.Maybe something like Quicksilver (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/22549) would work better.

[theBB]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I'd like to see Google, Wikipedia, IMDB, etc. integrated with Spotlight. And preferably, Spotlight can be activated by voice or jestures, as in: "Computer, What is the capital of Nebraska?"
Sorry Dave, I cannot do that. :)

[CubaTBird]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but I'd like to see Google, Wikipedia, IMDB, etc. integrated with Spotlight. And preferably, Spotlight can be activated by voice or jestures, as in: "Computer, What is the capital of Nebraska?"

that would be a feature that i would actually use often.