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MacRumors
Aug 3, 2006, 10:24 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider reports (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1939) that according to their sources, Apple is expected to quickly adopt Intel's newest line of processors - the mobile Core 2 Duo - which was announced last week (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060727103453.shtml).

According to a source familiar with the Mac maker's plans, the company is slated to receive mass shipments of the new Merom Core 2 Duo processors by the first week of September and plans to be amongst the first PC manufacturers to introduce systems based on the new chips.


Apple's current iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro and Mac mini use the original Core Duo/Solo chips which were introduced earlier this year. Early unconfirmed rumors hinted that Apple was very interested (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2005/09/20050926161551.shtml) in getting the Merom chips as early as possible. This rumor indicates that Apple will remain aggressive with their product line upgrades.

The first Core 2 Duo (Merom) benchmarks (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/01/first_core-2_duo_benchmarks/) have already been making the rounds:

The chip has completed a first test run in our labs and was not only more responsive and faster than the fastest Core Duo ("Yonah") processor, but consumed less power as well.

Some unconfirmed rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060802151736.shtml) as well as analyst speculation (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060802114855.shtml) has hinted at Apple providing an upgrade to at least one of the existing Intel Macs.

AJ Muni
Aug 3, 2006, 10:26 PM
MBP Merom anyone? Appleinsider has always been reliable...so this may happen. This WWDC is gonna be great!

WildCowboy
Aug 3, 2006, 10:30 PM
Not a whole lot of new info, but any indication that the move to Merom will be a rapid one is certainly welcomed...

darwen
Aug 3, 2006, 10:30 PM
I bet you a Macbook Pro that the Macbook Pro will be the first of these updated computers! ;)

puckhead193
Aug 3, 2006, 10:32 PM
god i hope its true. joshy needs a new imac :D

twoodcc
Aug 3, 2006, 10:32 PM
good news, but it seems that it will be later than we were expecting. September?:confused:

Flowbee
Aug 3, 2006, 10:34 PM
The iMac and MacBook Pro, most likely. It would better differentiate the MBP from the MacBook.

ImAlwaysRight
Aug 3, 2006, 10:34 PM
Merom in the MBP for sure. Now.

Apple is showing "64-bit" in the one banner.

But don't expect Merom in the MacBook anytime soon.

Stridder44
Aug 3, 2006, 10:34 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The first Core 2 Duo (Merom) benchmarks (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/01/first_core-2_duo_benchmarks/) have already been making the rounds


The "tests" kind of sucked and wasn't that informative. Didn't tell us a whole lot...but either way I hope they get into the MBPs!!

poppe
Aug 3, 2006, 10:42 PM
I can live with fast updates!!!! MBP Merom for college after all!!!

bradc
Aug 3, 2006, 10:42 PM
It was probably part of Intel's/Apple's bargaining chip that Apple gets quick shipments of chips I assume. Not priority over Dell, Lenovo, HP, Toshiba but maybe sufficient quantities?

Eidorian
Aug 3, 2006, 10:44 PM
Yay, September...

mvc
Aug 3, 2006, 10:45 PM
Who voted negative????? You want it slower, eh? Give the man a G3! No, a 601!

Grimace
Aug 3, 2006, 10:52 PM
I think the negative votes were from those who wanted Steve to announce Merom in updated Macs on Monday and not wait until September...

Anawrahta
Aug 3, 2006, 10:56 PM
Who voted negative????? You want it slower, eh? Give the man a G3! No, a 601!


IBM apologists....

poppe
Aug 3, 2006, 11:02 PM
It is sad to have to wait till September... I wanted to show my family my MBP since they've never though of using a Mac until me

kev0476
Aug 3, 2006, 11:04 PM
they are just cycling through old rumors now... only difference, it is so close to wwdc.

noservice2001
Aug 3, 2006, 11:06 PM
go apple! speed!

Demon Hunter
Aug 3, 2006, 11:07 PM
Announced at WWDC, released in September?

tristan
Aug 3, 2006, 11:08 PM
Wow! Tip of the hat to Apple and Intel. But why aren't the Blue Man on my TV selling the Core 2 Duo? Somebody tell them to put the LSD away and get to a studio.

And of course, nobody's talking about the elephant in the room. These new chips are SIXTY FOUR BIT BABY. Is 32-bit the new G4? Cuz we all know the G4 is the new G3.

64-bit OSX by the end of the year perhaps? With quadruple binaries to support the G4, the G5, the Core Duo, and the Core Duo 2? Or will Apple deny us our 64-bit freedom?

Porscheboy16
Aug 3, 2006, 11:09 PM
Hopefully prior to Sept 16th so I can get the IPOD deal too.

Demon Hunter
Aug 3, 2006, 11:15 PM
I think the negative votes were from those who wanted Steve to announce Merom in updated Macs on Monday and not wait until September...

Yeah... this seems to favor a Paris release...

twoodcc
Aug 3, 2006, 11:17 PM
Yeah... this seems to favor a Paris release...

i think you might be right (even though i hope your wrong)

BenRoethig
Aug 3, 2006, 11:19 PM
I always expected the four existing lines to go merom. It's pretty much a firmware update away from using existing hardware and the form factors used are more geared towards lower power chips.

kallaway1
Aug 3, 2006, 11:20 PM
are people not expecting merom to go immediately into the macbook as well? i don't see a reason for apple to purposely gimp their best-selling notebook when a merom chip is supposed to cost the same as its yonah counterpart.

twoodcc
Aug 3, 2006, 11:20 PM
I always expected the four existing lines to go merom. It's pretty much a firmware update away from using existing hardware and the form factors used are more geared towards lower power chips.

this might be likely, but i doubt it right away and all at the same time

aswitcher
Aug 3, 2006, 11:22 PM
So new iMacs in September for Paris expo...

WildCowboy
Aug 3, 2006, 11:23 PM
are people not expecting merom to go immediately into the macbook as well? i don't see a reason for apple to purposely gimp their best-selling notebook when a merom chip is supposed to cost the same as its yonah counterpart.

Why not? They did it with the iBooks for quite some time...

seenew
Aug 3, 2006, 11:34 PM
Man, and I got an iMac in late June because I was told they wouldn't get Merom's into iMacs until 2007.

:(

I can still drop one in, can't I?

twoodcc
Aug 3, 2006, 11:34 PM
I can still drop one in, can't I?

yep, that's the rumor :)

peeInMyPantz
Aug 3, 2006, 11:35 PM
the news say intel has already made small shipment last month enough for product launches, .. in september.. apple will expect large shipment.

so this means launching at wwdc, available in september

twoodcc
Aug 3, 2006, 11:36 PM
the news say intel has already made small shipment last month enough for product launches, .. in september.. apple will expect large shipment.

so this means launching at wwdc, available in september

if this is true, then looks like i might be stuck with a 32-bit Macbook :o unless i can make myself wait........nah

danielwsmithee
Aug 3, 2006, 11:37 PM
are people not expecting merom to go immediately into the macbook as well? i don't see a reason for apple to purposely gimp their best-selling notebook when a merom chip is supposed to cost the same as its yonah counterpart.I think the very last machine to get it will be the bottom end MacBook and slowest Mac Mini. There is no reason why they could not offer both Yonah and Merom in the same systems since they are the same sockets. With the discounted Yonah or Core Solo they could hit there $499 price point on the mini and $899 for the Core Duo white MacBook. The Black MacBook will see Merom near the same time as MBP. They may wait 3 weaks or so to see if the Merom supply can meet demand.

wronski
Aug 3, 2006, 11:37 PM
"Everyone wants a new Merom MacBook Pro with new enclosures and Blu-Ray disc because they're bitchin'"

Gatorman
Aug 3, 2006, 11:38 PM
the news say intel has already made small shipment last month enough for product launches, .. in september.. apple will expect large shipment.

so this means launching at wwdc, available in september


Or perhaps it means enough chips to sell a few thousand (or hundred, I'm just going out on a limb here! :D ) initially, and then mass produce in Sept to keep up with the demand?

Either way, I want to see them available in August...I can't wait any more. I've waited a year and a half! Of course, I didn't need one up until August, anyway. :p

Multimedia
Aug 3, 2006, 11:39 PM
are people not expecting merom to go immediately into the macbook as well? i don't see a reason for apple to purposely gimp their best-selling notebook when a merom chip is supposed to cost the same as its yonah counterpart.Yes! This Would Favor Steve Announcing Full Line Shift To Core 2 ASAP Monday. My favorite scenario may come true. :)

jholzner
Aug 3, 2006, 11:40 PM
MBP Merom anyone? Appleinsider has always been reliable...so this may happen. This WWDC is gonna be great!

I'm gonna go on record and say they will NOT intro new MBP at wwdc. Some sales of the current MBP are better than none and if they they intro a new one they will not sell any and probably just take pre orders. Not gonna happen. They will wait until late August or early September to announce them when they are actually ready.

poppe
Aug 3, 2006, 11:42 PM
Wow! Tip of the hat to Apple and Intel. But why aren't the Blue Man on my TV selling the Core 2 Duo? Somebody tell them to put the LSD away and get to a studio.

And of course, nobody's talking about the elephant in the room. These new chips are SIXTY FOUR BIT BABY. Is 32-bit the new G4? Cuz we all know the G4 is the new G3.

64-bit OSX by the end of the year perhaps? With quadruple binaries to support the G4, the G5, the Core Duo, and the Core Duo 2? Or will Apple deny us our 64-bit freedom?

64 Bit has been talked alot about. There is a thread called 64 Bit Core Duo (why not core 2 duo, I don't know) acctually I think, but I know nothing about it so I can't comment. It won't make 32 bit things even close to G4. 64 Bit, from what i've read, isn't really optimized until two things: the operating system is ready to manage it, and the software is designed for it. The Core 2 duo will be faster than the core duo, but for multiple reasons and not only on the 64 bit computing.

kaneda
Aug 3, 2006, 11:46 PM
I guess we are not going to get new casing for Intel MAC...

twoodcc
Aug 3, 2006, 11:48 PM
Yes! This Would Favor Steve Announcing Full Line Shift To Core 2 ASAP Monday. My favorite scenario may come true. :)

didn't i read this exact same thing earlier today?

anyways, i hope your right, but for some reason i don't think it will. only time will tell.....

Multimedia
Aug 3, 2006, 11:49 PM
I'm gonna go on record and say they will NOT intro new MBP at wwdc. Some sales of the current MBP are better than none and if they they intro a new one they will not sell any and probably just take pre orders. Not gonna happen. They will wait until late August or early September to announce them when they are actually ready.Steve does not have to announce any new products to say they are going to shift to Core 2 across the board ASAP. :)

treblah
Aug 3, 2006, 11:56 PM
The "tests" kind of sucked and wasn't that informative. Didn't tell us a whole lot...but either way I hope they get into the MBPs!!

AnandTech to the rescue!
(http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808)

Cliffs: 15 to 20% faster, exact same battery life. :)

Guitar geek
Aug 4, 2006, 12:01 AM
This is great and bad at the same time for me. I'm so happy that they'll finally move to Merom. However, I've been holding off an MBP since mid-April. I was really hoping to get one after WWDC. If it's true that they may launch it in September, I may not be able to get it in time for school, and the ipod rebate may be over.

kallaway1
Aug 4, 2006, 12:02 AM
...Steve Announcing Full Line Shift To Core 2 ASAP Monday. My favorite scenario may come true. :)


ahhh, I share your dream! even if merom is only in the mid-level whitebook and the blackbook, i'd be fine with that - as long as they don't make me wait to get the chip I want in the enclosure I'm lusting after :D

MacinDoc
Aug 4, 2006, 12:03 AM
Why not? They did it with the iBooks for quite some time...
Yes, but the G3 was a more power efficient chip than the G4, while the opposite is true of the Core vs the Core2. Apple should put Core2 chips in the MacBooks ASAP, if only for the power saving. And Apple should also try to maximize the percentage of its user base that is 64 bit capable prior to the release of OS X 10.5, which should be 64 bit.

Don't forget that when they ship, the Core2 chips will cost as much as the Core chips do now. So, if Apple doesn't upgrade the MacBooks to Core2 or drop their prices, it will start to look like it is less competitive in pricing again.

poppe
Aug 4, 2006, 12:04 AM
Please apple what ever you do. Don't leave me stuck with a Merom MBP at 2.16... we need the 2.33!!

chabig
Aug 4, 2006, 12:05 AM
Merom in the MBP for sure. Now.

Apple is showing "64-bit" in the one banner.
That banner is showing Apple's existing products, not future products. The 64 bit logo is no doubt referring to the current line of G5 machines.

Chris

Object-X
Aug 4, 2006, 12:13 AM
I wondered, when Apple announced it was switching to Intel, if it would affect the upgrade cycle. Intel releases new chips often and companies like Dell ship them almost immediately. Apple has historically waited a long time before updating a product; but are they now going to be forced to keep pace to remain competitive? I think they will have to now. I expect speed bumps to their products to happen more frequently. It wouldn't surprise me to see the MBP get the new Core 2 Duo chips next week. (even though I just bought one last week :( )

poppe
Aug 4, 2006, 12:13 AM
AnandTech to the rescue!
(http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808)

Cliffs: 15 to 20% faster, exact same battery life. :)

First off... Man that was thorough...

Second For Apple users this means that early adopters of the new MacBook or MacBook Pro won't be too pressured to upgrade again by the end of this year. Of course Apple has this way of making incremental changes irresistible.

So true...

What makes me wonder is how did CNET get 5 hours so easily you think? Or is the Core Duo easily to get 5 hours I wonder. I know CNET isn't this thorough though so...

jholzner
Aug 4, 2006, 12:13 AM
Steve does not have to announce any new products to say they are going to shift to Core 2 across the board ASAP. :)

That's very true but my response wasn't to that statement but to this one:

"MBP Merom anyone? Appleinsider has always been reliable...so this may happen. This WWDC is gonna be great!"

I assumed that WWDC is going to be great because of MPB Merom which I don't think will be announced. :p

I could be wrong.

tf843364
Aug 4, 2006, 12:14 AM
Never buy an apple product!!!
As soon as you do something new and better comes out!!!
AAAHHHHHH
I am typing this away on my new Macbook, Core 1 Duo; which i bought under the self-brainwashed reasoning that the MBP alone would see 2x2. Why you ask? Cuz I figured hey, the MB JUST came out, why refresh it every 2 months! The MBP has been out like 8 months, that makes sense.
I can only PRAY I am right.
No that my Macbook will be instant crap... I just COULD have waited until september.
Damn you apple...

Derekasaurus
Aug 4, 2006, 12:19 AM
are people not expecting merom to go immediately into the macbook as well? i don't see a reason for apple to purposely gimp their best-selling notebook when a merom chip is supposed to cost the same as its yonah counterpart.

Right now there is a big price difference between the MB and MBP line but not a whole lot of difference in performance. Putting the Core 2 in the MBP would help differentiate it from the MB. That doesn't mean the MB won't get a speed bump (the Core Duo goes up to 2.33GHz), but Apple might delay putting Merom in the MB to differentiate the lines. I'd pounce on a Merom MB, but I don't think it's going to happen in conjunction with the Merom MBP.

poppe
Aug 4, 2006, 12:25 AM
Right now there is a big price difference between the MB and MBP line but not a whole lot of difference in performance. Putting the Core 2 in the MBP would help differentiate it from the MB. That doesn't mean the MB won't get a speed bump (the Core Duo goes up to 2.33GHz), but Apple might delay putting Merom in the MB to differentiate the lines. I'd pounce on a Merom MB, but I don't think it's going to happen in conjunction with the Merom MBP.

Wasn't there a decent price difference between the PB 12" and the 15" but had the same processor? I have no idea. I'm really just asking because i'm curious.

That and i'm at like 478 posts from when I last checked...

EDIT: Scratch that 574 posts... Represent!!! i'm now a 6502 what ever that means! and my picture is up sweet...

dansgil
Aug 4, 2006, 12:28 AM
All I want from WWDC is a Merom MBP. Well...Leopard too. :)

whmees
Aug 4, 2006, 12:39 AM
right... so what exactly do i have to do for my relatively new MBP to "accidentally" start encountering "problems" and have to have it sent in to get a replacement?

;)

BWhaler
Aug 4, 2006, 12:46 AM
Not really any new news, but the September date bummed me out.

I knew it would be another month or so, but I am so anxious to get a new laptop, the thought of waiting another 4-6 weeks (at best) is a bummer.

I just hope Apple doesn't wait until Paris Expo to announce it. Then we're talking 2+ months.

Multimedia
Aug 4, 2006, 12:55 AM
Right now there is a big price difference between the MB and MBP line but not a whole lot of difference in performance. Putting the Core 2 in the MBP would help differentiate it from the MB. That doesn't mean the MB won't get a speed bump (the Core Duo goes up to 2.33GHz), but Apple might delay putting Merom in the MB to differentiate the lines. I'd pounce on a Merom MB, but I don't think it's going to happen in conjunction with the Merom MBP.I think the Merom MB delay will only be until Intel can supply Apple with enough Meroms for the MacBook production line volume after the MacBook Pro line volume is satisfied. :)

greenstork
Aug 4, 2006, 12:58 AM
are people not expecting merom to go immediately into the macbook as well? i don't see a reason for apple to purposely gimp their best-selling notebook when a merom chip is supposed to cost the same as its yonah counterpart.

Intel dropped yonah prices, you didn't really expect them to be the same, did you? Apple is cashing in on higher margins on the Macbook and my guess is they'll keep it that way at least for a few months.

bigjohn
Aug 4, 2006, 12:58 AM
Who voted negative????? You want it slower, eh? Give the man a G3! No, a 601!

he can have one my old 68k's

greenstork
Aug 4, 2006, 01:02 AM
Never buy an apple product!!!
As soon as you do something new and better comes out!!!
AAAHHHHHH
I am typing this away on my new Macbook, Core 1 Duo; which i bought under the self-brainwashed reasoning that the MBP alone would see 2x2. Why you ask? Cuz I figured hey, the MB JUST came out, why refresh it every 2 months! The MBP has been out like 8 months, that makes sense.
I can only PRAY I am right.
No that my Macbook will be instant crap... I just COULD have waited until september.
Damn you apple...

What doesn't your Macbook do fast enough?

chasemac
Aug 4, 2006, 01:02 AM
Never buy an apple product!!!
As soon as you do something new and better comes out!!!
AAAHHHHHH
I am typing this away on my new Macbook, Core 1 Duo; which i bought under the self-brainwashed reasoning that the MBP alone would see 2x2. Why you ask? Cuz I figured hey, the MB JUST came out, why refresh it every 2 months! The MBP has been out like 8 months, that makes sense.
I can only PRAY I am right.
No that my Macbook will be instant crap... I just COULD have waited until september.
Damn you apple...

You have a very good system.:confused: Your Macbook will not be crap. I really don't think the Macbook will get a processor upgrade yet. Not for another couple of months anyway.

greenstork
Aug 4, 2006, 01:03 AM
I just hope Apple doesn't wait until Paris Expo to announce it. Then we're talking 2+ months.

I'm sure HP, Dell, Apple and the rest of the computer makers out there will have Merom laptops available as soon as they receive the chips from Intel.

corywoolf
Aug 4, 2006, 01:08 AM
I'm gonna go on record and say they will NOT intro new MBP at wwdc. Some sales of the current MBP are better than none and if they they intro a new one they will not sell any and probably just take pre orders. Not gonna happen. They will wait until late August or early September to announce them when they are actually ready.
word

corywoolf
Aug 4, 2006, 01:22 AM
Not really any new news, but the September date bummed me out.

I knew it would be another month or so, but I am so anxious to get a new laptop, the thought of waiting another 4-6 weeks (at best) is a bummer.

I just hope Apple doesn't wait until Paris Expo to announce it. Then we're talking 2+ months.
My money is on iMac and iPod nano updates in Paris, MacBook in November, the Long awaited Media Mac Mini at Macworld, new video iPod along with the launch of iTunes Video Store, as well as the long rumored new games for the iPod. Maybe a new iSight that is small enough to clip onto the iPod? Bah, I am getting way too carried away. Back to the point, since this is a pro targeted conference, it makes perfect sense for the MacBook Pro and Mac Pro to make appearances.

ImNoSuperMan
Aug 4, 2006, 02:07 AM
Never buy an apple product!!!
As soon as you do something new and better comes out!!!
AAAHHHHHH
I am typing this away on my new Macbook, Core 1 Duo; which i bought under the self-brainwashed reasoning that the MBP alone would see 2x2. Why you ask? Cuz I figured hey, the MB JUST came out, why refresh it every 2 months! The MBP has been out like 8 months, that makes sense.
I can only PRAY I am right.
No that my Macbook will be instant crap... I just COULD have waited until september.
Damn you apple...

Dont worry. I m still pretty sure that you wont get meroms in MB before this november. All we might see is a little price drop for the current Yonah MBs.

At best, there might be a Merom BlackBook available with Merom MBP. Thereby making a fool of everyone who`s bought a BlackBook for 150$ premium:p . Huh,,, I`d love to see a 1599$ Merom BlackBook with backlit keyboard this monday. Thank God I got the white book instead.:)

artpease
Aug 4, 2006, 02:27 AM
My money is on iMac and iPod nano updates in Paris, MacBook in November, the Long awaited Media Mac Mini at Macworld, new video iPod along with the launch of iTunes Video Store, as well as the long rumored new games for the iPod. Maybe a new iSight that is small enough to clip onto the iPod? Bah, I am getting way too carried away. Back to the point, since this is a pro targeted conference, it makes perfect sense for the MacBook Pro and Mac Pro to make appearances.

A little over the top, but agreed. WWDC is a developer confernce, so Leopard and the Mac Pro. I'd be surprised if he even mentions Merom. Forget about MB, they just came out and Steve won't kill sales during the back to school promo. Geez, he's a genius, not a moron...

gnasher729
Aug 4, 2006, 03:00 AM
MBP Merom anyone? Appleinsider has always been reliable...so this may happen. This WWDC is gonna be great!

This is not a question of Appleinsider being reliable, more a matter of rumor sites making a guess that is absolutely obvious. There is no way that Apple could _not_ use Merom in the future, since Intel will sell it at exactly the same price that it charges for Yonah today.

thejadedmonkey
Aug 4, 2006, 03:28 AM
This is not a question of Appleinsider being reliable, more a matter of rumor sites making a guess that is absolutely obvious. There is no way that Apple could _not_ use Merom in the future, since Intel will sell it at exactly the same price that it charges for Yonah today.
Well, Steve Jobs could always announce that Apple is transitioning to PPC G6 chips, and that the x86 reign is over ;)

2ndPath
Aug 4, 2006, 03:49 AM
Wasn't there a decent price difference between the PB 12" and the 15" but had the same processor? I have no idea. I'm really just asking because i'm curious.


Yes, but the difference in price has been smaller. But then there is no 12" or 13" MBP available and the 15" have additional differences, which could justify a price difference.

I guess they will introduce Meroms a bit later into the MacBooks, but not too long after the MacBook Pros (unlike the iBooks which got the G4 about 2 years after the Powerbooks).

Di9it8
Aug 4, 2006, 04:07 AM
Hopefully prior to Sept 16th so I can get the IPOD deal too.
The iPod deal is to get rid of old stock, prior to the new models, as in the previous years:rolleyes:

BWhaler
Aug 4, 2006, 04:09 AM
I'm gonna go on record and say they will NOT intro new MBP at wwdc. Some sales of the current MBP are better than none and if they they intro a new one they will not sell any and probably just take pre orders. Not gonna happen. They will wait until late August or early September to announce them when they are actually ready.

I agree. Especially when you consider the retail stores. What are they going to do? Take orders? Sure, Apple does this for brand new products, but not for existing stock.

No, Apple will release the upgrade when the stores are stocked and orders can be shipped.

thefunkymunky
Aug 4, 2006, 04:35 AM
So. Errm. I have a question.

I have a MBP as in my sig. Actually that is the second one I have. First one got damaged by Apple, this second one is currently with Apple and has been for the last 4 weeks. It only went in to repair the fried BT.

Anyway. Since buying my first MBP in February and receiving the replacement in June which is now back with Apple. I have only had around 4 weeks usuage out of my machine and to this date I am still not using my MBP I originally purchased in February. Every time I call Apple to ask where my machine is they tell me that it will be with me the following week.

So what are the chances of Apple upgrading me to a new Merom MBP eh. What you think?:confused:

HiRez
Aug 4, 2006, 04:39 AM
WWDC is a developer confernce, so Leopard and the Mac Pro. I'd be surprised if he even mentions Merom.Tons of Mac developers use PowerBooks (*cough* I mean MacBook Pros). so I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it mentioned. In fact I'd venture to say PB/MBP are becoming the machine of choice for coders. In fact I'm planning on completely replacing both my dual G5 and my G4 PowerBook with a new MacBook Pro as soon as they revise them with Meron chips. Also, "developers" means hardware developers as well as software, and software developers have to know about the chips they're coding for too, so talking details about a processor is not at all unusual for WWDC (The G5 was discussed in great detail there, for example). But if I had to guess, I'll say they will not revise the MB Pros at WWDC, it will be all about the new Mac Pros, Merom chips, and Leopard. Possibly Xserve will be announced as well but it might be too early for that.

noservice2001
Aug 4, 2006, 04:52 AM
please let it be in the mac mini...

shandowee
Aug 4, 2006, 04:54 AM
(Sorry but my english is only valid to read, not to write...)

por aquí en España también estamos como locos esperando los nuevos merom aunque seamos realistas, coincido con los compañeros que dicen que hasta que físicamente no dispongan de los nuevos MBP no los van a anunciar ya que Jobs no puede permitirse perder tanto dinero (la gente esperaría por el nuevo si lo anuncia en la WWDC)

So I think the new MBP with merom is not going to appear the 7th because jobs would lost a lot of buyers waiting for the meroms, you know, If someone tells you that in a month you are going to have a new processor, sure you are not going to buy the "obsolet model". Anyway I still dreaming each nigth with a merom MBP...

BornAgainMac
Aug 4, 2006, 05:02 AM
The reason. To do what they did with the mini drives on the iPod. Buy up as much inventory that Intel has the offer. Make Dell and all the rest wait until production of the chips can keep up with demand. Dell and the others will still ship a ton of products but with the slower Celerons and the equiv AMD.

I am curious of anyone does the volume of Core Duo products as Apple anyways.

Dr.Gargoyle
Aug 4, 2006, 05:22 AM
Why not? They did it with the iBooks for quite some time...
It is a new game after PPC->x86.
Apple is now competing directly with all other PC manufacturers. You can easily compare the hardware between different computers.
Hence, I am sure Apple will upgrade all MBs to Merom as soon as they have made sure they will get enough Meroms to satisfy the need of MBP.
Besides since both the iBook and 12'' PB seems to have merged into the 13'' MB, it is vital to keep this line updated for demanding users with a need for a smaller form factor.

generik
Aug 4, 2006, 05:31 AM
(Sorry but my english is only valid to read, not to write...)

por aquí en España también estamos como locos esperando los nuevos merom aunque seamos realistas, coincido con los compañeros que dicen que hasta que físicamente no dispongan de los nuevos MBP no los van a anunciar ya que Jobs no puede permitirse perder tanto dinero (la gente esperaría por el nuevo si lo anuncia en la WWDC)

So I think the new MBP with merom is not going to appear the 7th because jobs would lost a lot of buyers waiting for the meroms, you know, If someone tells you that in a month you are going to have a new processor, sure you are not going to buy the "obsolet model". Anyway I still dreaming each nigth with a merom MBP...

What's even worse is people just "give up" and buy MBs instead of MBPs, seeing as to how there are so few differences between the two. That takes them right out of the market for the next 2-3 years and Apple could have shilled them for a high margin MBP sale.

peeInMyPantz
Aug 4, 2006, 06:14 AM
I think the very last machine to get it will be the bottom end MacBook and slowest Mac Mini. There is no reason why they could not offer both Yonah and Merom in the same systems since they are the same sockets. With the discounted Yonah or Core Solo they could hit there $499 price point on the mini and $899 for the Core Duo white MacBook. The Black MacBook will see Merom near the same time as MBP. They may wait 3 weaks or so to see if the Merom supply can meet demand.
I don't think price for MB will ever drop, even if they're staying with yonah. It's selling quite well at this price. If they offer yonah and merom in the same system, the price diff will not be a lot, and apple will end up stocking for both yonah and merom, which is not something they will do

I'm gonna go on record and say they will NOT intro new MBP at wwdc. Some sales of the current MBP are better than none and if they they intro a new one they will not sell any and probably just take pre orders. Not gonna happen. They will wait until late August or early September to announce them when they are actually ready.
sales are going to drop anyway, coz ppl are going to wait. It's just like last year before intel processor come into the picture, there's a drop in sales coz ppl are waiting..

That banner is showing Apple's existing products, not future products. The 64 bit logo is no doubt referring to the current line of G5 machines.

Chris
maybe it's about leopard

.. don't u just love speculation.. haha

enda1
Aug 4, 2006, 06:32 AM
All the pics on the banner are just apple's existing products. There's nothing new there and (i believe) no hints. Its the keynote to look out for. I just hope they announce merom in MB as soon as possible. Maybe a new 12/13'' MBP otherwise which would be my ideal computer.

Monday is a bank holiday here in Ireland and i will be on a train during the keynote. Damn!!! Ill just have to watch it when I get back.

Though, I'm still not back in college till the second week of october so everything should be clearer by then! :)

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 06:36 AM
This is great and bad at the same time for me. I'm so happy that they'll finally move to Merom. However, I've been holding off an MBP since mid-April. I was really hoping to get one after WWDC. If it's true that they may launch it in September, I may not be able to get it in time for school, and the ipod rebate may be over.

No kidding. I've been waiting for the merom mbp since they came out in Feb. Check out my signature. that computer is virtually dead. yeah thats another thing. If they dont update the MBP at WWDC, they may not be available until after the ipod student rebate deal is over. That would SUCK.

jfinke
Aug 4, 2006, 06:46 AM
the general availablity for the merom and woodcrest chips yet??

All of the benchmarks that people were drooling over the last couple of weeks were for the conroe, which is the desktop version.

So, it would not surprise me at all to see a delay in a merom based machine (or a woodcrest for that matter).

ChickenSwartz
Aug 4, 2006, 07:10 AM
Not really any new news, but the September date bummed me out.

I knew it would be another month or so, but I am so anxious to get a new laptop, the thought of waiting another 4-6 weeks (at best) is a bummer.

I just hope Apple doesn't wait until Paris Expo to announce it. Then we're talking 2+ months.


It said MASS amounts BY September. So the mass amount might mean enough to fill minis and macbooks. Intel is already shiping. Do you think Apple is just sitting on these chips, no, they are going into computers. I would guess iMac and/or MBP.

rxse7en
Aug 4, 2006, 07:10 AM
*fingers crossed*

Please, let the new MBP be socketed!

*fingers crossed*

gnasher729
Aug 4, 2006, 07:16 AM
*fingers crossed*

Please, let the new MBP be socketed!

*fingers crossed*

Socketed CPUs are higher (not a good idea in a laptop). Soldered also gives better connections, which may be important since a laptop is likely to be used in more diverse environments. Like outside, in hot sunshine, or while sitting at a freezing cold trainstation...

Erasmus
Aug 4, 2006, 07:35 AM
I do not believe that Apple should wait to announce their new 64 bit systems. They should (and could) give promos of complete overhauls of their entire Mac lineup. (Final propaganda for iMac Ultra)

I think that Apple should concentrate on getting lots of switchers. Apple probably care about us old "maccies", because, of course, it is very rare for a mac user to change to using the Operating System That Must Not Be Named.

I therefore think Apple promoing iMacs, Macbooks, MBPs, MPs, MMs, etc. would be in their best interest, as potential switchers would know that Apple intends to bring out cool machines as soon as they can, if not immediately. Sure, it would impact on initial sales, as no-one would buy any of their computers between then and the shipping date, however, Apple would catch many fence-sitters who would otherwise bite the bullet and buy a much cheaper (and much more pathetic) PC after Steve's Keynote.

Wining Switchers should be Apple's goal now.

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 07:36 AM
I don't think price for MB will ever drop, even if they're staying with yonah. It's selling quite well at this price. If they offer yonah and merom in the same system, the price diff will not be a lot, and apple will end up stocking for both yonah and merom, which is not something they will do

More likely is a speed bump to 2.16 Yonah on the MB, Merom on the MBP. 64 bit/power consumption the differentiator for the MBP.

Yonah's price will be going down a lot once Merom is shipping - perhaps we will see a $499 mini again, just a price drop - no change in specs. If Yonah sees a 60% price drop (it's happened lots of times before with intel chips), maybe the low end mini will go duo.

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 07:42 AM
I did not think that Intel has released
the general availablity for the merom and woodcrest chips yet??

Woodcrest was announced at least two weeks before Conroe. Woodcrest is supposedly available now - Apple's just waiting for WWDC...

Xeon (Woodcrest) chips are not generally used by PC manufacturers for desktops, so Apple doesn't have the same level of pressure to release a Mac Pro based on it. At least in my opinion.

aswitcher
Aug 4, 2006, 07:43 AM
Wining Switchers should be Apple's goal now.


Agreed. So that means...

Leopard - seemless Windows intergration...

Target the multimedia computer market with those wanting their HDTVs and iPods to connect to their new Mac. Make the mac part of the furniture and easy to operate.

Geek switchers. Along with Leopard / Windows, they will want decent gaming punch which means a Mac Box with pro features like replacable graphics cards but still price competative. I see a low/min Mac Pro. Could be the same machine or a variation of the multimedia one. That way 2 birds one stone.

Keep innovating. New tech stuff early. 802.11n. iPhones. Touch screens (without touch) etc.

iGary
Aug 4, 2006, 07:44 AM
I might be excited about this if the chips would run Adobe and Macromedia programs.

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 07:47 AM
I might be excited about this if the chips would run Adobe and Macromedia programs.

Isn't that what Rosetta is for :p :D

Hardly Apple's fault. Apple has managed to transition all it's apps - Adobe is certainly dragging their collective feet.

Stella
Aug 4, 2006, 07:52 AM
Cheese with your whine?

Never buy an apple product!!!
As soon as you do something new and better comes out!!!
AAAHHHHHH
I am typing this away on my new Macbook, Core 1 Duo; which i bought under the self-brainwashed reasoning that the MBP alone would see 2x2. Why you ask? Cuz I figured hey, the MB JUST came out, why refresh it every 2 months! The MBP has been out like 8 months, that makes sense.
I can only PRAY I am right.
No that my Macbook will be instant crap... I just COULD have waited until september.
Damn you apple...

iGary
Aug 4, 2006, 07:54 AM
Isn't that what Rosetta is for :p :D

Hardly Apple's fault. Apple has managed to transition all it's apps - Adobe is certainly dragging their collective feet.

Don't blame Apple at all, I just have a hard time getting excited about hardware that can't do what I need it to do. Looking forward to a Universal app from Adobe and Macromedia so I can be excited about Apple's offerings.

miles01110
Aug 4, 2006, 07:57 AM
Do you guys think we'll be able to buy merom replacement motherboards for MBP?

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 07:59 AM
Don't blame Apple at all, I just have a hard time getting excited about hardware that can't do what I need it to do. Looking forward to a Universal app from Adobe and Macromedia so I can be excited about Apple's offerings.

I'm typing this on my iBook G4, which is perfectly good for me for the next couple of years - don't need anything better. Doesn't stop me from getting excited about the new machines! Especially when I work day-to-day programming on a cruddy beige box Win2k machine.

I'm actually more interested to see what Leopard brings - all the supposed rumors so far have turned out to be speculation. Tiger was a bit meh to me - spotlight and dashboard really doesn't do it for me. Hopefully Leopard will have a bit more innovation!

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 08:01 AM
Do you guys think we'll be able to buy merom replacement motherboards for MBP?

maybe. there will def be some service where you can send your MBP in for a week or two and they'll upgrade it. it will void your warranty however, so keep that in mind.

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 08:03 AM
Do you guys think we'll be able to buy merom replacement motherboards for MBP?

Apple has never done this for notebooks. Apple used to do it for desktops - I remember when they had PPC upgrade boards for the Quadras. They weren't really upgrade boards - they were refurb machines without hard drives or memory - just swapped them over.

Yes - I'm getting old - actually used to work at an Apple Service Centre at that point.

guzhogi
Aug 4, 2006, 08:04 AM
I think I remember reading on one of the MacRumors forums that Merom is really a full 64-bit processor, but rather a 32-bit w/ 64-bit extensions or something. Any truth in this?

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 08:11 AM
I think I remember reading on one of the MacRumors forums that Merom is really a full 64-bit processor, bu rather a 32-bit w/ 64-bit extensions or something. Any truth in this?

Yes - both AMD 64 and Intel EM64T are 64 bit extensions to the 32 bit x86 processor.

From what I understand the registers are still 32 bit, but the chips have a 64 bit address space and more registers.

No-one has the need for a truly 64 bit machine at this point - just machines that can address more RAM. The 4GB RAM limit on 32 bit processors is beginning to be an issue for pro users.

I think the vector extensions (AltiVec and SSE) have very large registers - 128 bit? This is what's used when there is a need for a specific optimisation.

Just my layman's understanding. Ready to be corrected!

Porscheboy16
Aug 4, 2006, 08:14 AM
I do not believe that Apple should wait to announce their new 64 bit systems. They should (and could) give promos of complete overhauls of their entire Mac lineup. (Final propaganda for iMac Ultra)

I think that Apple should concentrate on getting lots of switchers. Apple probably care about us old "maccies", because, of course, it is very rare for a mac user to change to using the Operating System That Must Not Be Named.

I therefore think Apple promoing iMacs, Macbooks, MBPs, MPs, MMs, etc. would be in their best interest, as potential switchers would know that Apple intends to bring out cool machines as soon as they can, if not immediately. Sure, it would impact on initial sales, as no-one would buy any of their computers between then and the shipping date, however, Apple would catch many fence-sitters who would otherwise bite the bullet and buy a much cheaper (and much more pathetic) PC after Steve's Keynote.

Wining Switchers should be Apple's goal now.

You're defining my current state:D

danielwsmithee
Aug 4, 2006, 08:16 AM
It is a new game after PPC->x86.
Apple is now competing directly with all other PC manufacturers. You can easily compare the hardware between different computers.
Hence, I am sure Apple will upgrade all MBs to Merom as soon as they have made sure they will get enough Meroms to satisfy the need of MBP.
Besides since both the iBook and 12'' PB seems to have merged into the 13'' MB, it is vital to keep this line updated for demanding users with a need for a smaller form factor.I think quick updates to the latest technology at a reasonable price is a good strategy for Apple right now. Many computer manufacturers have not switched over to even the Core Duo on their laptops yet, the ones that have charge a premium for them. The same is true for the Core 2 Duo desktops and Woodcrest. There is an 8 month lag in the main manufacturers (Dell, HP, Gateway etc) between the time that a new intel processor is available and they have cleared out their inventory and start offering the newer technology. HP is better then the others. Dell it is almost impossible to find a computer on their website with Core 2 Duo and the ones that are (XPS) can not be configured for anything less the $2500. They really charge a premium for the latest and greatest. Apple could go a long way by keeping their inventory short and getting customers the latest technology quickly.

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 08:28 AM
Apple could go a long way by keeping their inventory short and getting customers the latest technology quickly.

I think I remeber reading that exact point in an interview with an Intel exec - they like the way Apple can bring a product to market quickly, and use innovative technologies in their chips before anyone else.

miles01110
Aug 4, 2006, 08:30 AM
I think I remeber reading that exact point in an interview with an Intel exec - they like the way Apple can bring a product to market quickly, and use innovative technologies in their chips before anyone else.

We like it too...the main problem is that it's usually not soon enough!

heisetax
Aug 4, 2006, 08:30 AM
are people not expecting merom to go immediately into the macbook as well? i don't see a reason for apple to purposely gimp their best-selling notebook when a merom chip is supposed to cost the same as its yonah counterpart.


That same was when the Yonah was introduced, not now. That means that there would be a cost difference for APPLE.

Bill the TaxMan'

BenRoethig
Aug 4, 2006, 08:33 AM
What is really going to help merom on the Mac are the SSE units. It has three to yonah's one . Mac OS X makes a lot better use of SIMD units than windows.

Dell and the others will still ship a ton of products but with the slower Celerons and the equiv AMD.

The 400 series celerons aren't that slow. They're more or less a Core Solo with a smaller cache.

friely
Aug 4, 2006, 08:33 AM
Apple sent me an email yesturday with a coupon to save £56 of an order before 1st Sept so I was thinking updates after then Apple normal sent me coupons for £20 only

jaxstate
Aug 4, 2006, 08:37 AM
After working on my MBP for about two months now, I call BS. Apple says it's 4-5 x faster than the last powerbooks, I couldn't really tell. I think we are in a new era of ********, where they (Apple) are trying to get people to upgrade just because of a slight Mhz boost, and lower power consumption. Bring on the real world test, and post them on their website.

jaxstate
Aug 4, 2006, 08:38 AM
How do you know this. Are you some type of design tester for intel?
What is really going to help merom on the Mac are the SSE units. It has three to yonah's one . Mac OS X makes a lot better use of SIMD units than windows.

The 400 series celerons aren't that slow. They're more or less a Core Solo with a smaller cache.

joeboy_45101
Aug 4, 2006, 09:05 AM
Where does this leave Conroe and Allendale? Apple's marketing strategy has always been that the PowerBooks (MacBook Pro) have faster processers then any of the iMac offerings. The Conroe and Allendale (Desktop) chips run faster then the Merom (Mobile) chips.

So when Apple does ugrade the iMac is it going to use the desktop processer or the mobile one? If it uses the Conroe and Allendale chips it risks breaking it's arbitrary rule of keeping the iMac slower than the PowerBook (MacBook); on the other hand, if Apple decides to use the Merom chips in the iMac then the iMac will be slow compared to offerings by other companies, who would be using the faster Conroe or Allendale chips.

I think Apple should ditch it's old, worn-out marketing strategies. Who cares if the iMac is faster than the MacBook, it's not like I can carry around an iMac or sit it on my lap. The MacBook is portable power, the iMac is affordable power!

Aldyn
Aug 4, 2006, 09:07 AM
ug, i just really hope that the imac is updated soon. i've waited all summer for the imac to be updated, and it still hasnt -- i have no computer for school this year as of now, and i'm just praying apple updates the imac before mid august. so i can have one ordered and at my house before school starts. :mad:

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 09:08 AM
How do you know this. Are you some type of design tester for intel?

How does he know what? It is well known what is in the Core 2 and Core processors.

heisetax
Aug 4, 2006, 09:09 AM
Isn't that what Rosetta is for :p :D

Hardly Apple's fault. Apple has managed to transition all it's apps - Adobe is certainly dragging their collective feet.


Maybe you should blame AMD. They outdid Intel by increasing their % of the market. This put pressure on Intel to release their Core duo, Core 2 duo & Xeon 5100 6 months to a year or so early. This made Apple bring out their new Intel Macs much earlier than expected.

Because of the amount of work involved & the original Intel/Apple schedule, Adobe made the plan to skip the UB for CS2 & just make it part of CS3. This was to be on the same timetable as the original Intel Mac changes. They weere just too far into their schedule to make such large changes for a 6 month - year time.

MicroSoft just has a lot of problems doing upgrades. Virtual PC 7 was 6-9 months late. They quietly admitted that the programming was much harder than they thought it would be. That reason adds to the problem that the new version of MS Office also is changing to an XML file format for all of their programs. This means twice the trouble for MS. MS Office for Windows is usually a year ahead of the Mac MS Office upgrades. That means that if MS brings out their new Mac MS Office program in 2007 they will be the same year as MS Office for Windows. This actually means that the Mac MS Office program would be coming out a year ahead of schedule, not a year behind the schedule that many Intel Mac people believe shuld be the case. Also MS in my opinion has said that they will have 2 veersion of Office for the Mac, one PPC only & the other Intel Mac only. It just seems like they have said that they will have no UB for MS Office. This double programming may takke loner. It also will probably mean that the PPC Mac will not have as good of product upgrading/changes.
In another year the most of the software will be ready for the Intel Mac. By that time we may be seeing the 3rd group of Intel Macs, 4 or 5 if they keep up with the Intel/AMD Windows world.

Bill the TaxMan

Demoman
Aug 4, 2006, 09:12 AM
Who voted negative????? You want it slower, eh? Give the man a G3! No, a 601!

I have been wondering the same thing. No matter how good the news is, there are still a bunch of negative votes. It just re-inforces my belief there is an organized effort to discredit Apple on this site. If it was just individuals, I would wonder why waste time on an Apple website if you did not like Apple? It makes no sense in that scenario. I do believe the PC establishment is worried about the possibility of Apple gaining more of a foothold in corporate America.

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 09:26 AM
I have been wondering the same thing. No matter how good the news is, there are still a bunch of negative votes. It just re-inforces my belief there is an organized effort to discredit Apple on this site. If it was just individuals, I would wonder why waste time on an Apple website if you did not like Apple? It makes no sense in that scenario. I do believe the PC establishment is worried about the possibility of Apple gaining more of a foothold in corporate America.

Give me a break. People voted negative on this because they are waiting on merom MBPs and now think that, contrary to they're hopes and prayers the past few weeks, that the Merom MBP revisions wont be out until september. This is no clandestine PC-clone smear campaign. who's it going to effect? This forum is full of the faithful, messing around here isn't going to change national opinion of Microsoft or apple products. It's not Steve Ballmer twisting his handlebar mustaches as he chortles to himself, going from one article to the next, voting negative at each. Let's get real here.

QCassidy352
Aug 4, 2006, 09:31 AM
Where does this leave Conroe and Allendale? Apple's marketing strategy has always been that the PowerBooks (MacBook Pro) have faster processers then any of the iMac offerings. The Conroe and Allendale (Desktop) chips run faster then the Merom (Mobile) chips.

:confused: The imac had a G5 for a long time while the powerbook had a G4. The imac ended with a 2.1 G5 and the powerbook topped out at a 1.67 G4. Apple has no problem, nor should they, putting a faster processor in a desktop than a notebook, even when the notebook is a "pro" machine and the desktop a "consumer" machine.

I've maintained all along that the imac will get Conroe. It's a midrange desktop, not a laptop. Why would/should it get a laptop processor? (and don't say "yonah is a laptop processor." Apple did that because they wanted to switch to intel and the Pentium IV was not a valid option, so yonah was the only choice. Now they have a real desktop processor available, and they will use it.)

Sox
Aug 4, 2006, 09:32 AM
What are the odds that Apple Stores will offer to upgrade the Yonah processors in the MacBooks, iMacs, and Minis to the Merom chips (for a fee, of course)?

I'm guessing they won't do this, but I thought I'd ask.

miles01110
Aug 4, 2006, 09:33 AM
What are the odds that Apple Stores will offer to upgrade the Yonah processors in the MacBooks, iMacs, and Minis to the Merom chips (for a fee, of course)?

I'm guessing they won't do this, but I thought I'd ask.

Zero to none.

Detlev
Aug 4, 2006, 09:37 AM
Well, it makes sense that Apple would have to be aggresively pursuing these chips now that they are in the true PC market. If they were to sit on their laurels they would honestly find out how fast this market would eat them alive. It does not take much to assume, guess, spread rumors about such a thing and be correct.

adamfilip
Aug 4, 2006, 09:44 AM
I was kinda surprised that teh Core 2 Duo is only 10-15% faster then the Core Duo, but im not sure why im surprised. i wasnt really sure of the differences at the time..

Hattig
Aug 4, 2006, 09:44 AM
I guess that all of Apple's current Yonah based systems will migrate over to Merom or Conroe in the next few months - I believe that Intel will be switching production over to these processors rather than Yonah quite quickly.

The MacBook will change last, IMO, say in three or four months time. MacBook Pro and iMac will get upgrades quite quickly though.

aaronb
Aug 4, 2006, 09:44 AM
I'm definitely leaning towards a Paris release, too. It breaks my heart to say it because I know I'm in the same position that a lot of you are in. But the rumored news is that "the company is slated to receive mass shipments of the new Merom Core 2 Duo processors by the first week of September..."

That said, it looks like Apple will be receiving the processors by that date, not having them in MBPs, Minis, and MBs ready to ship.

adamfilip
Aug 4, 2006, 09:45 AM
What are the odds that Apple Stores will offer to upgrade the Yonah processors in the MacBooks, iMacs, and Minis to the Merom chips (for a fee, of course)?

I'm guessing they won't do this, but I thought I'd ask.

Apple doing it.. um None really
but i bet there will be other companies that will be willing to do the upgrade

jholzner
Aug 4, 2006, 09:47 AM
Apple's marketing strategy has always been that the PowerBooks (MacBook Pro) have faster processers then any of the iMac offerings. The Conroe and Allendale (Desktop) chips run faster then the Merom (Mobile) chips.

I'm not sure that's true. They had the G5 in the iMac and it was never in the Powerbook. When the Intel iMac was released it was running the same CPUs as the 15" MacBook Pro that was released at the same time. They are very different products so the differentiation is built in.

crudsponge
Aug 4, 2006, 09:50 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Leopard Feature Set Leaked


http://www.powerpage.org/archives/2006/08/exclusive_leopard_feature_set_leaked.html

jaxstate
Aug 4, 2006, 09:53 AM
LOL. You win post of the day.
Give me a break. People voted negative on this because they are waiting on merom MBPs and now think that, contrary to they're hopes and prayers the past few weeks, that the Merom MBP revisions wont be out until september. This is no clandestine PC-clone smear campaign. who's it going to effect? This forum is full of the faithful, messing around here isn't going to change national opinion of Microsoft or apple products. It's not Steve Ballmer twisting his handlebar mustaches as he chortles to himself, going from one article to the next, voting negative at each. Let's get real here.

jaxstate
Aug 4, 2006, 09:54 AM
I was talking abou this reference to the 400 series celerons. I should have made that more clear.How does he know what? It is well known what is in the Core 2 and Core processors.

MovieCutter
Aug 4, 2006, 09:54 AM
EXCLUSIVE: Leopard Feature Set Leaked


http://www.powerpage.org/archives/2006/08/exclusive_leopard_feature_set_leaked.html

Hardly seems exclusive...more like "duh, that's obvious"

Detlev
Aug 4, 2006, 09:55 AM
Agreed. So that means...

Leopard - seemless Windows intergration...

I'd rather see the Apple OS built as a virus and slowly take over the Windows OS partition. Windows users wouldn't even notice the difference. They would get used to the new key strokes thinking this is the way it is supposed to be.

If they really wanted to make it Windows like, Apple could accomplish the assimilation within thirty days and then kill the offending OS.

miles01110
Aug 4, 2006, 09:56 AM
probably (75-85% sure) that they are fake.

heisetax
Aug 4, 2006, 09:57 AM
I have been wondering the same thing. No matter how good the news is, there are still a bunch of negative votes. It just re-inforces my belief there is an organized effort to discredit Apple on this site. If it was just individuals, I would wonder why waste time on an Apple website if you did not like Apple? It makes no sense in that scenario. I do believe the PC establishment is worried about the possibility of Apple gaining more of a foothold in corporate America.

No matter how good someone will always be negative, but also no matter how bad someone will be positive. That's just the way life is. This has nothing to do with having those that are anti-Mac or pro-Mac. People just don't agree on anything.

Maybe this person santed to see the core 2 duo in a PowerMac/Intel Mac Pro unit. Maybe he wanted an iPod shuffle with a core 2 duo in it. Maybe that would be just to say that he had the smallest core 2 duo computers or the most over processed iPods?

Bill the TaxMan

Detlev
Aug 4, 2006, 09:59 AM
Hardly Apple's fault. Apple has managed to transition all it's apps - Adobe is certainly dragging their collective feet.
Afterall it's just a couple lines of code. :D

Stridder44
Aug 4, 2006, 10:13 AM
I have been wondering the same thing. No matter how good the news is, there are still a bunch of negative votes. It just re-inforces my belief there is an organized effort to discredit Apple on this site. If it was just individuals, I would wonder why waste time on an Apple website if you did not like Apple? It makes no sense in that scenario. I do believe the PC establishment is worried about the possibility of Apple gaining more of a foothold in corporate America.


Downvoters have been around here and doing this exact thing for a loooooooooooooong time, this is nothing new. And everytime it happens someone comes in here asking "How could someone vote this a negative?!!?"

Again, not to pick you out of the crowd but Im just saying....these neg. voters are nothing new.

DakotaGuy
Aug 4, 2006, 10:20 AM
Hmmm...is Apple going to be changing to new chips every six months now? Nice to see technology moving along at a rapid pace, but for those people who always need the latest and greatest...This is gonna get REAL expensive!:p

How many people plan to dump their Core Duo Macs for Core 2 Duo Macs? I like my iMac and it really is fast, heck my iMac G5 was plenty fast, but I hate being behind everyone when new things come out and it gets too expensive to keep up with Apple...well not in the PowerPC days...but now it does!

ezekielrage_99
Aug 4, 2006, 10:23 AM
I think we will see the Core 2 Duo in the iMac, Mac Pro and MacBook Pro line and before Xmas in everything else.

If this does happen it is certainly an excellent turn for Apple and the consumers getting the latest and greatest.

ezekielrage_99
Aug 4, 2006, 10:31 AM
Personally I hope to see with the Intel change for Apple to update each line every 6 months.

dernhelm
Aug 4, 2006, 10:48 AM
Hmmm...is Apple going to be changing to new chips every six months now? Nice to see technology moving along at a rapid pace, but for those people who always need the latest and greatest...This is gonna get REAL expensive!:p

How many people plan to dump their Core Duo Macs for Core 2 Duo Macs? I like my iMac and it really is fast, heck my iMac G5 was plenty fast, but I hate being behind everyone when new things come out and it gets too expensive to keep up with Apple...well not in the PowerPC days...but now it does!

You are the perfect consumer. "Must ... have ... bright ... shiny ... new .... thing", whether you need it or not. So what if apple comes out with a new computer every 6 months? If the one you have does what you need it to - why do you care? If your self-worth is tied up in having the latest computer, you just need therapy. And please don't blame Apple for your debt situation.

Eidorian
Aug 4, 2006, 10:55 AM
Give me a break. People voted negative on this because they are waiting on merom MBPs and now think that, contrary to they're hopes and prayers the past few weeks, that the Merom MBP revisions wont be out until september. This is no clandestine PC-clone smear campaign. who's it going to effect? This forum is full of the faithful, messing around here isn't going to change national opinion of Microsoft or apple products. It's not Steve Ballmer twisting his handlebar mustaches as he chortles to himself, going from one article to the next, voting negative at each. Let's get real here.You sir are correct.

_Matt
Aug 4, 2006, 10:58 AM
You are the perfect consumer. "Must ... have ... bright ... shiny ... new .... thing", whether you need it or not. So what if apple comes out with a new computer every 6 months? If the one you have does what you need it to - why do you care? If your self-worth is tied up in having the latest computer, you just need therapy. And please don't blame Apple for your debt situation.

Haha. Well said. I guess Apple added in something to the last revision of PowerBook G4s which makes us PowerBook users more down to earth. I would never get rid of my PowerBook. :D

danielwsmithee
Aug 4, 2006, 11:03 AM
How many people plan to dump their Core Duo Macs for Core 2 Duo Macs? I don't plan on dumping my 20" iMac Core Duo until some other new feature are added besides just a processor upgrade. Specifically I would like to see 802.11n, Firewire 800 and Possibly a TV Tuner (Elgato's products are pretty good already so I can live without that feature). What would make me jump immediately is a 23" iMac with 2.66 Ghz Conroe and a X1800 or X1900 Video card. Of course the thing would cost $2999.

BootstrapMetal
Aug 4, 2006, 11:21 AM
I do not believe that Apple should wait to announce their new 64 bit systems. They should (and could) give promos of complete overhauls of their entire Mac lineup. (Final propaganda for iMac Ultra)

I think that Apple should concentrate on getting lots of switchers. Apple probably care about us old "maccies", because, of course, it is very rare for a mac user to change to using the Operating System That Must Not Be Named.

I therefore think Apple promoing iMacs, Macbooks, MBPs, MPs, MMs, etc. would be in their best interest, as potential switchers would know that Apple intends to bring out cool machines as soon as they can, if not immediately. Sure, it would impact on initial sales, as no-one would buy any of their computers between then and the shipping date, however, Apple would catch many fence-sitters who would otherwise bite the bullet and buy a much cheaper (and much more pathetic) PC after Steve's Keynote.

Wining Switchers should be Apple's goal now.

Like someone else said, That is exactly my case! I am carefully awaiting a Core 2 Duo version of the iMac. It's the only thing holding me down right now.

MovieCutter
Aug 4, 2006, 11:35 AM
How many people plan to dump their Core Duo Macs for Core 2 Duo Macs?

Already sold my MBP 17" and my 20" iMac and are shipping them out this weekend...he he he.

Then again, I have two reasons to have the latest and greatest shiny new thing.
1) I have a terrible disease that causes me to do this.
2) I edit everything from 30 second commercial spots to feature length documentaries and I need to have all the speed I can get.

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 11:39 AM
Does anyone think that if these upcoming merom MBPs do get a new case design with with MB-like keyboard, magnetic latch, etc, there will also be an updated gpu? level 2 cache? front side bus? I'm not sure what ram speeds the merom can deal with.

EDIT: answered my own question, thanks to eidorians sig.
667mhz ram (same)
4mg l2c (kickass)
not sure about front side bus. I dont think its as easily updatable as the rest. correct me?

Eidorian
Aug 4, 2006, 11:39 AM
How many people plan to dump their Core Duo Macs for Core 2 Duo Macs?I sold my iMac G5 back in June. :rolleyes:

dernhelm
Aug 4, 2006, 11:41 AM
Like someone else said, That is exactly my case! I am carefully awaiting a Core 2 Duo version of the iMac. It's the only thing holding me down right now.

I'm waiting for the Core 2 processors to come out as well. I'm finally replacing my 664MHz P-III (you read that right) that I surf the web with at home. Got my better half to agree to an upgrade, and almost pulled the trigger about 3 weeks ago, but thought I'd wait for the Core 2 Duo iMac to be introduced. That should mean cheaper Core Duo iMacs for me...

DakotaGuy
Aug 4, 2006, 11:54 AM
You are the perfect consumer. "Must ... have ... bright ... shiny ... new .... thing", whether you need it or not. So what if apple comes out with a new computer every 6 months? If the one you have does what you need it to - why do you care? If your self-worth is tied up in having the latest computer, you just need therapy. And please don't blame Apple for your debt situation.

I never said that I WAS going to buy one and I probably won't...I usually run a computer 3-4 years, except for my iMac G5 which turned out to be a lemon and that is why I have my Intel one now.

jfinke
Aug 4, 2006, 11:55 AM
from yesterday comparing the Core Duo (Yonah) to the Core 2 Duo (Merom) from AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808).

General application performance can improve a bit by switching to Core 2 Duo, but the biggest performance gains are associated with 3D rendering and media encoding tasks. Considering the nature of the improvements to Intel's Core 2 processor, the areas in which it succeeds are not surprising. If you use your notebook as a professional rendering or encoding workstation with no desktop in sight, then you'll probably consider Core 2 Duo a lot more carefully than most.

...

For Apple users this means that early adopters of the new MacBook or MacBook Pro won't be too pressured to upgrade again by the end of this year. Of course Apple has this way of making incremental changes irresistible.

amols
Aug 4, 2006, 11:59 AM
Never buy an apple product!!!
As soon as you do something new and better comes out!!!
AAAHHHHHH
I am typing this away on my new Macbook, Core 1 Duo; which i bought under the self-brainwashed reasoning that the MBP alone would see 2x2. Why you ask? Cuz I figured hey, the MB JUST came out, why refresh it every 2 months! The MBP has been out like 8 months, that makes sense.
I can only PRAY I am right.
No that my Macbook will be instant crap... I just COULD have waited until september.
Damn you apple...

Don't worry, I say this now -NO MBP CPU UPDATE AT WWDC- or till December for that matter. MBP itself has its own issues to be fixed like overheating, battery life and slower superdrive. I would be happier if they fix these issues instead of putting slightly faster chip and producing more heat and moans. And even if they do, you won't see big difference in performance anyways. So just enjoy your MB while it lasts.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 4, 2006, 11:59 AM
So when Apple does ugrade the iMac is it going to use the desktop processer or the mobile one?


You are overlooking heat dissipation. The iMac has the guts of a mobile machine. I doubt the desktop chip (Conroe) could handle being inside an iMac for very long. Also the mobile chip (Merom) is hardly a slouch. It sure beats the Celeron and some of the other weaker chips you see in $1000 PCs.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 4, 2006, 12:07 PM
Don't worry, I say this now -NO MBP CPU UPDATE AT WWDC- or till December for that matter.


I think that depends on what Dell, Sony, Toshiba, etc, come out with. No way is Apple going to still be selling a 2.16 Core Duo at it's top end laptop when the PC makers have Core 2 Duo chips. I'm pretty sure Apple will speed bump the MBP as soon after they get enough Meroms for production. Remember, they bumped the original MBP only 3 months after intro, and almost as soon as the faster chips were available.

ChrisA
Aug 4, 2006, 12:19 PM
My best gues is that Apple will make their entire lineup 64 bit. This should be easy for them to do and at the same time will give them a way to distance themselves from all the other PC makers. Apple would have a very easy to understand advertizing statment "All macs are 64 bit" Easy to understand is key.

50548
Aug 4, 2006, 12:19 PM
Don't worry, I say this now -NO MBP CPU UPDATE AT WWDC- or till December for that matter. MBP itself has its own issues to be fixed like overheating, battery life and slower superdrive. I would be happier if they fix these issues instead of putting slightly faster chip and producing more heat and moans. And even if they do, you won't see big difference in performance anyways. So just enjoy your MB while it lasts.

A chip update has NOTHING to do with any outstanding issues, sorry...Apple is fully capable of fixing those (if any) with a better design AND a better chip.

CJM
Aug 4, 2006, 12:26 PM
I don't see why Apple would put a mobile chip into the iMac. I bought one for my work around a month ago and yes, its portable but not that portable.

*begs for a Conroe iMac*

amols
Aug 4, 2006, 12:27 PM
I think that depends on what Dell, Sony, Toshiba, etc, come out with. No way is Apple going to still be selling a 2.16 Core Duo at it's top end laptop when the PC makers have Core 2 Duo chips.

Apple never was a part of Mhz rat-race. Look at its bestselling Powerbook. How fast was it compared to the then PC laptops. Anyways, WWDC is suppose to be developers conference, so we should speculate more about Leopard and hopefuly MacPros (because they are long due) insted of iPods and MBPs.

bendejo
Aug 4, 2006, 12:30 PM
I'm waiting for the Core 2 processors to come out as well. I'm finally replacing my 664MHz P-III (you read that right) that I surf the web with at home. Got my better half to agree to an upgrade, and almost pulled the trigger about 3 weeks ago, but thought I'd wait for the Core 2 Duo iMac to be introduced. That should mean cheaper Core Duo iMacs for me...


I'm in the same boat (but upgrading from a 867MHz TiBook). I figure if there's no iMac introduced, I pull the trigger on getting a refurb iMac core duo. Same thing if there's a new iMac with minor improvements. I'm thinking that for my home office work that I am going to be using this for (heavy on managing large PDFs and Word files and needing Windows for some VPN stuff with an office database that won't work on Mac, but no graphic design stuff) a Merom core 2 duo would be nice but not necessarily worth the extra money. I figure I might as well wait though because (a) if there's a new iMac then the refurb price on the core duo will probably drop a little; and (b) though the chances are small, there may be a revamping of the entire Mac line, including the iMac, that would make me smack myself on the forehead for not waiting a week or 2.

amols
Aug 4, 2006, 12:32 PM
A chip update has NOTHING to do with any outstanding issues, sorry...Apple is fully capable of fixing those (if any) with a better design AND a better chip.

Really?? I thought heat and battery life issues are directly connected to cpu chips. I wonder why they didn't put G5 in Powerbook :confused:

M-Life
Aug 4, 2006, 12:35 PM
please let it be in the mac mini...

2nd that notion. I waited last summer for updated Ibooks and this summer for an updated mini.

At the very least, Apple is making my summers seem very very slow, and that I can't complain about.

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 12:36 PM
Don't worry, I say this now -NO MBP CPU UPDATE AT WWDC- or till December for that matter. MBP itself has its own issues to be fixed like overheating, battery life and slower superdrive. I would be happier if they fix these issues instead of putting slightly faster chip and producing more heat and moans. And even if they do, you won't see big difference in performance anyways. So just enjoy your MB while it lasts.

Apple never was a part of Mhz rat-race. Look at its bestselling Powerbook. How fast was it compared to the then PC laptops. Anyways, WWDC is suppose to be developers conference, so we should speculate more about Leopard and hopefuly MacPros (because they are long due) insted of iPods and MBPs.

No no no no no. first of all. The meroms create less heat than the yonahs. by your logic, they shouldn't put a cooler chip in until they resolve their heat issues. :confused:

secondly: Mac Pros and MBPs both belong at wwdc. PRO. for professional. I fail to see how desktop professional machines belong here and laptop professional machines do not.

thirdly: ... actually that's all i really need to say.

Chupa Chupa
Aug 4, 2006, 12:45 PM
Apple never was a part of Mhz rat-race. Look at its bestselling Powerbook. How fast was it compared to the then PC laptops. Anyways, WWDC is suppose to be developers conference, so we should speculate more about Leopard and hopefuly MacPros (because they are long due) insted of iPods and MBPs.


Apple liked to downplay Mhz/Ghz because it knew there was no way the G3 and G4 PPCs could keep up with the P*. But when the G5 came along, what did Steve announce...that a 3Ghz chip would be ready in a year. Of course that never happened. The G5 never made it out of the high 2 GHz even three years after he made that statement. And THAT is the reason why we now have Intel Macs.

Moreover, now that PCs and Macs use the same chips Apple HAS to use the latest and greatest chips to keep up. It's not really a matter of playing the Ghz game. That game is over now that there is chip parity. But the first thing a company like Apple that basks in it's "cutting edge"/"trendy" glow must have is computers with the best chips.

Also, WWDC is about DEVELOPERS. Developers of software and hardware for all Apple products. So I think it's silly to limit speculation (especially since its all speculation) to only a few products. Theoretically every piece of Apple hardware is up for revision, not to mention possible new ones.

50548
Aug 4, 2006, 12:59 PM
Really?? I thought heat and battery life issues are directly connected to cpu chips. I wonder why they didn't put G5 in Powerbook :confused:

1 - I don't know what overheating you talk about, apart from some cases that have been dealt with under AppleCare;

2 - Apple has probably the best battery life of the industry for such a notebook range...and no, don't tell me about 10" microbooks;

3 - the SD thing is due to the thin enclosure, a clear design paradigm at Apple...nothing else.

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 01:01 PM
I don't see why Apple would put a mobile chip into the iMac. I bought one for my work around a month ago and yes, its portable but not that portable.

Don't look now but the current Intel iMac has a laptop/SFF chip and chipset in it it. :eek:

ShnikeJSB
Aug 4, 2006, 01:03 PM
Apple never was a part of Mhz rat-race. Look at its bestselling Powerbook. How fast was it compared to the then PC laptops. Anyways, WWDC is suppose to be developers conference, so we should speculate more about Leopard and hopefuly MacPros (because they are long due) insted of iPods and MBPs.

It sure was! Anyone remember when the Pismo hit 400MHz, and Intel's best was still at 333MHz (or somethign to that effect)?

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 01:06 PM
Really?? I thought heat and battery life issues are directly connected to cpu chips. I wonder why they didn't put G5 in Powerbook :confused:

It is one factor out of MANY that affects battery life of a laptop (in fact often the screen backlight and video chipset is the bigger battery killer).

Anyway you get more bang for your battery "buck" with Merom then with the current Yonah... in other words at the same clock rate (and chipset) you won't see a change in battery life (in fact it may improve slightly).

fowler.
Aug 4, 2006, 01:06 PM
I don't get the point of this article. I mean, isn't it common knowledge that Apple is going to use the Merom processors in it's computers?

reachingforsky
Aug 4, 2006, 01:17 PM
I hope we're all in for surprises at WWDC. Up until then, this is all speculation. It's fun to speculate and to try to be cool by being right, but I hope they knock everyone's socks off with the unexpected.

Stridder44
Aug 4, 2006, 01:28 PM
I don't get the point of this article. I mean, isn't it common knowledge that Apple is going to use the Merom processors in it's computers?


Oh no doubt, it's when is what people are interested in............kind like me..........and the Merom-less MacBook Pro's I see when I go to Apple.com.....

amols
Aug 4, 2006, 01:34 PM
1 - I don't know what overheating you talk about, apart from some cases that have been dealt with under AppleCare;

2 - Apple has probably the best battery life of the industry for such a notebook range...and no, don't tell me about 10" microbooks;

3 - the SD thing is due to the thin enclosure, a clear design paradigm at Apple...nothing else.

1. If you check Apple's knowledge database or the manual that come with MBP, it actually says not to put this laptop on top of your lap, or it'll cause discomfort and potentially a burn with prolonged use. Now that's a new thing for a Powerbook or iBook user. Almost all the reviews of MBP state one con throughout, and thats the heat it dissipates. I own a MBP 2.16 Ghz and let me tell you it is very uncomforting to keep this on lap even through the clothing. Forget about using it in shorts unless you are in Alaska.

2. Less than three hours is not outstanding when you compare MBP to its predecessor and not PC notebooks.

3. The 17" MBP is as thin as 15.4". Why does it have faster D/L SD ??

Don't get me wrong. MBP is a facinating machine. I just hope Apple make it as perfect as PB was instead of running for every new chip like other PC vendors.

XForge
Aug 4, 2006, 01:41 PM
I think we're ready now to have a Merom mini at the house. It's the perfect machine for the townhome 'cuz it'll boot any OS we need and takes up absoultely bupkes for space. Whee!! And a 19" flatpanel. And a fat external HD.

dernhelm
Aug 4, 2006, 01:41 PM
I'm in the same boat (but upgrading from a 867MHz TiBook). I figure if there's no iMac introduced, I pull the trigger on getting a refurb iMac core duo.

So have you purchased refurbed from Apple previously? I've never done that, but I was wondering what your experience was like.

ChickenSwartz
Aug 4, 2006, 01:42 PM
1. If you check Apple's knowledge database or the manual that come with MBP, it actually says not to put this laptop on top of your lap, ....

I have a 4 year old Toshiba that runs (under moderate load) fairly cool. It also warned against using in lap.

I think all "laptops" will come with that warning now. It is just an attempt to prevent lawsuits.

Plus, guys, it is bad for your...ummm....baby makers...they are on the outside for a reason.

digitalbiker
Aug 4, 2006, 01:44 PM
I think we will probably get an announcement about new designed MacBookPros at WWDC along with MacPro Desktops.

Rumor had it back in January that Apple wanted Intel to pre-release Merom chips to Apple for the MacBook Pro. Instead Apple was forced to rush to market a quick update to the PowerBook line using the Yonah processor.

My guess now is that Apple is going to finally get to roll out the new redsigned MacBook Pro for Merom. I bet that Apple gets away from the out-dated Aluminium/Titanium look and goes to the the smooth polished black, white, and silver look similar to the MacBook. I also bet it gets the updated keyboard, glossy display, etc like the MacBook.

My wife has the new MacBook and it is a really sweet machine to own. I think it is much better designed and easier to use than my PB G4 1.67 Mhz.

The easier HD, Battery/ memory access is well thought out. The screen is brilliant. The keyboard is much better than I expected. In addition the latchless closure works like a gem and is much more convenient than that crappy button latch on the MBPro. Also the metal look is getting ugly and outdated. It scratches easy, shows finger prints, and dust more. It is also not as forgiving of a short drop. Metal bends & breaks. Plastic absorbs and flexes.

Apple is ready to re-invent the MacBookPro and probably would have done it sooner except the chips weren't available.

XForge
Aug 4, 2006, 01:45 PM
Who voted negative????? You want it slower, eh? Give the man a G3! No, a 601!
They can have my 500MHz G3 iBook, I'm nearly done with it.

Ah, to be able to view movie trailers again.... siiigghhhh....

guzhogi
Aug 4, 2006, 01:47 PM
Yes - both AMD 64 and Intel EM64T are 64 bit extensions to the 32 bit x86 processor.

From what I understand the registers are still 32 bit, but the chips have a 64 bit address space and more registers.

No-one has the need for a truly 64 bit machine at this point - just machines that can address more RAM. The 4GB RAM limit on 32 bit processors is beginning to be an issue for pro users.

I think the vector extensions (AltiVec and SSE) have very large registers - 128 bit? This is what's used when there is a need for a specific optimisation.

Just my layman's understanding. Ready to be corrected!
Thanks. Anyone know what the advantage of having a 64-bit processor vs. a 32-bit (other than bigger address bus)? I know the CPU has 2 basic kinds of buses: the address bus (where it can see 4 GB of RAM in 32-bit, 16 ?(i don't know the prefix)bytes in 64-bit) and an instruction bus that actually computes.

bendejo
Aug 4, 2006, 01:49 PM
So have you purchased refurbed from Apple previously? I've never done that, but I was wondering what your experience was like.


My TiBook is actually a refurb. I've had no problems at all with it. I've probably had it for about 3 1/2 years now and it still works great. Battery's getting a little wonky but that may be because I use a Sonnet PC card for my Airport Express WLAN (no built in airport card) and I get the impression that this is sucking a lot of power.

I'm looking to update just because I figure with a push in the Intel direction, Leopard would probably be pretty slow on a 867 G4 machine :) Plus, being able to boot camp into windows will allow me some flexibility for doing some work-at-home stuff so I don't have to stay in the office until 10 p.m. So it's not that the refurb TiBook is failing or anything like that, just evolving needs.

twoodcc
Aug 4, 2006, 01:49 PM
Thanks. Anyone know what the advantage of having a 64-bit processor vs. a 32-bit (other than bigger address bus)? I know the CPU has 2 basic kinds of buses: the address bus (where it can see 4 GB of RAM in 32-bit, 16 ?(i don't know the prefix)bytes in 64-bit) and an instruction bus that actually computes.

without software, not much

guzhogi
Aug 4, 2006, 01:54 PM
without software, not much
Duh, I mean what advantage would 64-bit processors & software over 32-bit?

twoodcc
Aug 4, 2006, 01:55 PM
Duh, I mean what advantage would 64-bit processors & software over 32-bit?

what do you mean, with 64-bit software or 32-bit software?

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 01:58 PM
Duh, I mean what advantage would 64-bit processors & software over 32-bit?
64bit OS & software on a 64 bit processor (especially a dual core) is much better at multitasking, for one.

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 01:58 PM
what do you mean, with 64-bit software or 32-bit software?
i assumed software optimized for 64 bit hardware.

twoodcc
Aug 4, 2006, 02:02 PM
i assumed software optimized for 64 bit hardware.

maybe, but we don't have that yet

lifeofart
Aug 4, 2006, 02:03 PM
I think we will probably get an announcement about new designed MacBookPros at WWDC along with MacPro Desktops.

Rumor had it back in January that Apple wanted Intel to pre-release Merom chips to Apple for the MacBook Pro. Instead Apple was forced to rush to market a quick update to the PowerBook line using the Yonah processor.

My guess now is that Apple is going to finally get to roll out the new redsigned MacBook Pro for Merom.

I agree completely. The MacBook Pro just looks like a transition model to me. Apple needed to update the PB badly and it made no sense for them to update with a new PPC chip but the Merom chip wasn't available yet even though it was Apple's chip of choice for a new laptop design.

Voila! slap a Yonah in essentially the same enclosure as a PB, tweak it a bit with new features and you get a MacBook Pro. Now that Merom is here and Apple has re-designed the ibook, the MacBook Pro is poised for a complete re-design.

I want my re-designed Merom MacBook Pro at WWDC.:eek:

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 02:08 PM
maybe, but we don't have that yet

sure we do. Developer Tools for example. also there are more 64 bit 3rd party apps out there, that I dont feel like looking up right now.

however, your right, consumer apps are primarily 32 bit, and os x apps like ical, mail etc, wont go 64 bit until leopard.

CellarDoor
Aug 4, 2006, 02:10 PM
I want my re-designed Merom MacBook Pro at WWDC.:eek:
you and me both brother. I haven't been this excited over an object in.... ever. I'm kind of pathetic.

twoodcc
Aug 4, 2006, 02:10 PM
sure we do. Developer Tools for example. also there are more 64 bit 3rd party apps out there, that I dont feel like looking up right now.

however, your right, consumer apps are primarily 32 bit, and os x apps like ical, mail etc, wont go 64 bit until leopard.

yeah, but we don't know if Leopard will be totally 64-bit anyways (we'll find out soon enough)

gnasher729
Aug 4, 2006, 02:16 PM
I don't see why Apple would put a mobile chip into the iMac. I bought one for my work around a month ago and yes, its portable but not that portable,

Well, there is a portable chip in it right now...

Remember, a chip is not "portable" because it is less heavy, but because it takes less power. Conroe takes twice the power of Meron. There is a heating problem with twice the power in an iMac. I am not saying it cannot be cooled down, but it would be really hard to cool it down without making it louder.

gnasher729
Aug 4, 2006, 02:20 PM
Duh, I mean what advantage would 64-bit processors & software over 32-bit?

Usually there wouldn't be much advantage, except for applications that really need more than 4 GB of memory. In the case of x86 processors (both Intel and AMD), they have twice as many registers available in 64 bit mode; that is good for ten percent more performance.

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 02:22 PM
64bit OS & software on a 64 bit processor (especially a dual core) is much better at multitasking, for one.

64 bit has nothing to do with multitasking.

nsjoker
Aug 4, 2006, 02:22 PM
of course they're adopting core 2 duo's... duh, so is every computer maker out there. intel is trying to transition very rapidly into core 2 duo and phasing out the "old" core duo. to do this they've priced the core 2 duos at exactly the same cost as the core duo's with the same clock speed/configuration. you would be stupid not to adopt. i just hope apple doesn't surcharge and tout core 2 duo as a monumental upgrade for the laptops, becase it's only incremental at best. the real gain is the conroe on the desktop processor. as long as the FSB in the portables isn't 1,000 mhz, merom won't be that much faster than yonah.

Stella
Aug 4, 2006, 02:24 PM
The 17" has a larger enclosure space than the 15.4" of course, so, better heat control and more space to put components. Perhaps the 15.4" would just get too hot / consume too much power with the 17" D/L SD inside it.

Doesn't the 17" use a different battery - higher capacity - than the 15.4"?



3. The 17" MBP is as thin as 15.4". Why does it have faster D/L SD ??

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 02:32 PM
3. The 17" MBP is as thin as 15.4". Why does it have faster D/L SD ?? ..but it is much wider which allows for more space for the drive since the trackpad (IIRC) doesn't overlap it. It really is an issue of vertical space that limits the 15" MBP to the drive it currently has.

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 02:33 PM
Doesn't the 17" use a different battery - higher capacity - than the 15.4"?

Yes it does.

MBP 17" - 68 watt-hour - "up to 5.5 hours of battery life"
MBP 15" - 60 watt-hour - "up to 4.5 hours of battery life"

dosers
Aug 4, 2006, 02:48 PM
Unless I am wrong and haven't looked lately ;-) though, there are NO 64-bit branches for the Intel developer tools. In other words, if you look at branching, you have 32-bit PPC, 64-bit PPC and Intel. A 64-bit app for PPC is not equal to a 64-bit app on Intel, and it certainly seems XCODE at this point (in it's publicly released version anyway) does not include 64-bit for Intel.
Obviously that is changing, obviously Apple is working on it internally, but really, I don't see any widespread adoption of 64-bit anytime soon. No good reason - for trivial tasks, running in larger OP Code registers will take more time, not less than 32-bit.

A good 64-bit/32-bit hybrid system (i.e.. no emulation either way) is a great solution, and allows to have apps that truly are 64-bit IF they can take advantage of the additional flat memory addressing (which, as cool as 64-bit sound, is still by far the most practical advantage over 32-bit)....

my 2 cents

dan


sure we do. Developer Tools for example. also there are more 64 bit 3rd party apps out there, that I dont feel like looking up right now.

however, your right, consumer apps are primarily 32 bit, and os x apps like ical, mail etc, wont go 64 bit until leopard.

daveL
Aug 4, 2006, 02:59 PM
Intel said they expect Merom-based machines to be available for purchase toward the end of August. What's this about Apple receiving a large shipment of CPUs in September? They'd be a month behind the rest of the market by the time they started delivering systems. Intel said they were shipping Merom when they announced their earnings for last quarter.

50548
Aug 4, 2006, 03:10 PM
1. If you check Apple's knowledge database or the manual that come with MBP, it actually says not to put this laptop on top of your lap, or it'll cause discomfort and potentially a burn with prolonged use. Now that's a new thing for a Powerbook or iBook user. Almost all the reviews of MBP state one con throughout, and thats the heat it dissipates. I own a MBP 2.16 Ghz and let me tell you it is very uncomforting to keep this on lap even through the clothing. Forget about using it in shorts unless you are in Alaska.

2. Less than three hours is not outstanding when you compare MBP to its predecessor and not PC notebooks.

3. The 17" MBP is as thin as 15.4". Why does it have faster D/L SD ??

Don't get me wrong. MBP is a facinating machine. I just hope Apple make it as perfect as PB was instead of running for every new chip like other PC vendors.

1 - This is nothing new, and Apple is just being honest...the PB 12 and 15 were famous leg toasters as well...the times of the cool G3 are over long ago.

2 - it's at least 3 hours...no similar PC notebook does that...and the G4 wasnt better either.

3 - more space, perhaps?

ChickenSwartz
Aug 4, 2006, 03:25 PM
Intel said they expect Merom-based machines to be available for purchase toward the end of August. What's this about Apple receiving a large shipment of CPUs in September? They'd be a month behind the rest of the market by the time they started delivering systems. Intel said they were shipping Merom when they announced their earnings for last quarter.

They could be shipping computers with Merom end of August, IMO maybe even earlier.

Recieving large shipment in September may indicate they are going into other computers to be ready for Paris (mini, MacBook, who knows).

3CCD
Aug 4, 2006, 03:40 PM
I'm excited to see what happens but since I'm in no crunch I'm waiting for the best time to buy. I'll wait till the new year if I have to.

guzhogi
Aug 4, 2006, 03:45 PM
what do you mean, with 64-bit software or 32-bit software?
Not to be rude, but are you really dumb enough to ask this? Ok, I'll try to make this as simple as possible: if I used a fully 64-bit OS & fully 64-bit software, that is software optimized for 64-bit processors, on a fully 64-bit processor, what would the advantage of using that set-up over using a 32-bit OS & 32-bit software on a 32-bit processor?

twoodcc
Aug 4, 2006, 03:54 PM
Not to be rude, but are you really dumb enough to ask this? Ok, I'll try to make this as simple as possible: if I used a fully 64-bit OS & fully 64-bit software, that is software optimized for 64-bit processors, on a fully 64-bit processor, what would the advantage of using that set-up over using a 32-bit OS & 32-bit software on a 32-bit processor?

yeah i'd say that's rude. maybe i misunderstood you, but you never said this. (or if you did, i missed it).

i do not know the technical stuff, but i do know that if you had all 64-bit stuff, then it'd be a lot better than all 32-bit stuff. (i know i should use better termanology, but oh well)

Supa_Fly
Aug 4, 2006, 03:55 PM
I got a question ... is the MacBook & MBP batteries Li-Ion or Li-Polymer? If the former then what i want MOST in the MBP is Li-Polymer and really fold the polymers and compress them to get a higher density of energy for longer battery life.

> The next generation of the MBP I'd really like to see the Intel technology for sub display (not unlike that on flip cellphones) to display AudioCD or running app information on the display or AirPort Ex hotspots within range (SSID, Signal Strength, VoIP signals etc). I'd also like to see a higher resolution - that maintains the same or much higher focus and zoom+Auto Focus - iSight thats built in and somewhat rotable (maybe somehow in the sell without external finger control).

> Magnesium or some kind of Metal Polymer combination that is very resistance or displaces heat efficiently but absorbing enough heat for hours of DVD, Video editing on our laps without burning them. Something thats much like ceramic tiles and how they displace heat efficiently.

> Me ... I'll settle for minimum 256MB video memory for ALL MBP and the built to order 512; and built to order 128MB on the Mac Books.

Question why do the old G4 powermacs of 933mhz or lower STILL selling highly used for such a high price - their almost obsolute in their abilities compared to new hardware. as an example on another forum sight someone is trying to sell a Dual 1Ghz QuickSilver for $1000 1.5GB total memory capacity (not that its filled with that much). Isnt this ridiculous?

Zadillo
Aug 4, 2006, 03:56 PM
You know, considering that Sony has been able to cram a DL drive in something as tiny as the TX series (not to mention the SZ series), I'm not sure why Apple couldn't do something similar with the 15" MBP.

WildCowboy
Aug 4, 2006, 04:05 PM
You know, considering that Sony has been able to cram a DL drive in something as tiny as the TX series (not to mention the SZ series), I'm not sure why Apple couldn't do something similar with the 15" MBP.

Because the TX is thicker than the MBP...at least in the area of the optical drive. (Sony likes to use the tapered design that's thinner toward front edge and thicker near the back edge...it's always looked weird to me.)

daneoni
Aug 4, 2006, 04:06 PM
I got a question ... is the MacBook & MBP batteries Li-Ion or Li-Polymer? If the former then what i want MOST in the MBP is Li-Polymer and really fold the polymers and compress them to get a higher density of energy for longer battery life.

> The next generation of the MBP I'd really like to see the Intel technology for sub display (not unlike that on flip cellphones) to display AudioCD or running app information on the display or AirPort Ex hotspots within range (SSID, Signal Strength, VoIP signals etc). I'd also like to see a higher resolution - that maintains the same or much higher focus and zoom+Auto Focus - iSight thats built in and somewhat rotable (maybe somehow in the sell without external finger control).

> Magnesium or some kind of Metal Polymer combination that is very resistance or displaces heat efficiently but absorbing enough heat for hours of DVD, Video editing on our laps without burning them. Something thats much like ceramic tiles and how they displace heat efficiently.

> Me ... I'll settle for minimum 256MB video memory for ALL MBP and the built to order 512; and built to order 128MB on the Mac Books.

Question why do the old G4 powermacs of 933mhz or lower STILL selling highly used for such a high price - their almost obsolute in their abilities compared to new hardware. as an example on another forum sight someone is trying to sell a Dual 1Ghz QuickSilver for $1000 1.5GB total memory capacity (not that its filled with that much). Isnt this ridiculous?

I dunno its just something about the G4's. I recently put my PowerBook up for sale and mid-sale i had bids up to £800+ but i cancelled the listing. I just love this machine.Yes its not a core duo but its very comfortable, doesnt run hot, sexy and has novelty and infact i find myself using this more than my BlackBook. I may just sell the BlackBook and get a new one when merom/santa clara chipsets start shipping or if a moderately priced MacPro and Display is released. For now the PowerBook and i remain friends.

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 04:07 PM
You know, considering that Sony has been able to cram a DL drive in something as tiny as the TX series (not to mention the SZ series), I'm not sure why Apple couldn't do something similar with the 15" MBP.

Why not compare the sizes?

If you look both MBP are 1" tall with the lid closed while the Sony TX series is 1.12" tall and the SZ is 1.5" tall (at the thickest... which is up near the drive area).

Zadillo
Aug 4, 2006, 04:11 PM
Because the TX is thicker than the MBP...at least in the area of the optical drive. (Sony likes to use the tapered design that's thinner toward front edge and thicker near the back edge...it's always looked weird to me.)

OK, that doesn't make sense to me though. The dimensions of the Sony TX series are 0.82"-1.12" thick, with the thick part being the back half of it (where the battery, etc. are).... the tapered design you mentioned.

But the optical drive is right in the front of it, so that would be in the area that is only 0.82" thin or so:

http://dynamism.com/images/gallery/imgtx92_28.jpg

http://dynamism.com/images/gallery/imgtx92_10.jpg

-Zadillo

Zadillo
Aug 4, 2006, 04:13 PM
Why not compare the sizes?

If you look both MBP are 1" tall with the lid closed while the Sony TX series is 1.12" tall and the SZ is 1.5" tall (at the thickest... which is up near the drive area).

That's not really true of the SZ series either. The SZ ranges from 0.9 to 1.33" or so, and the drive area is in the thin part of it at the front:

http://dynamism.com/images/gallery/imgsz1_8.jpg

jeff303
Aug 4, 2006, 04:56 PM
i do not know the technical stuff, but i do know that if you had all 64-bit stuff, then it'd be a lot better than all 32-bit stuff. (i know i should use better termanology, but oh well)

Ummm, that's not so clear to me. The only thing 64-bit gives you is more addressable memory. Oh, and some operations (like adding two doubles or longs) would only take one cycle on the integer unit, instead of more. Yeah... that's about it.

mav728
Aug 4, 2006, 05:02 PM
I have heard the opposite of this. My source has said that Apple will most likely wait until the next product cycle until the merom will be put in apple computers. But this is his own guess, but he his very connected in the technology world.

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 05:07 PM
The only thing 64-bit gives you is more addressable memory. Oh, and some operations (like adding two doubles or longs) would only take one cycle on the integer unit, instead of more. Yeah... that's about it.

..and in the case of x86-64 (Intel and AMD) the 64 bit mode of operation allows the CPU to expose more registers for use at compile time (and few other improvements). This can improve optimizations that the compiler can make which can improve the performance of the application it builds.

Also the ability to do integer math using 64 bit wide registers with 64 bit wide functional unit can be a decent performance win for several types of tasks.

shawnce
Aug 4, 2006, 05:09 PM
That's not really true of the SZ series either. The SZ ranges from 0.9 to 1.33" or so, and the drive area is in the thin part of it at the front with many things moved up into the thinker area.

If you can find the specs for the different drive mechanisms and compare them to the case designs you should find your answer (note the MBP uses a slot loading drive not a tray system).

Bengt77
Aug 4, 2006, 05:19 PM
New iMacs next Tuesday. I'll take one if it comes with a Conroe, Apple, thank you. But of course, if that's too hot, a Merom would do fine, too. Unless it will still use that dull 667MHz FSB, of course. At least put in an X1800 in it. Oh, and 1GB of RAM. And, while you're at it, throw in a 24" display too. And get rid of the lower bevel of the 'display design'. All that, and I'm buying straight away. If it will come pre-loaded with Leopard and will have a universal BlueRay/HD DVD-burner built-in, that is.

:rolleyes:

But seriously, I'm soooo ready for a new iMac. This 800MHz G4 iMac is getting old. It works like a charm, still, and is plenty fast for most stuff, but it just doesn't feel right anymore. Also, I never had quite the relationship with it as with my old 233MHz G3 iMac. I WANT A NEW iMAC! AND I WANT IT NOW!

twoodcc
Aug 4, 2006, 05:20 PM
..and in the case of x86-64 (Intel and AMD) the 64 bit mode of operation allows the CPU to expose more registers for use at compile time (and few other improvements). This can improve optimizations that the compiler can make which can improve the performance of the application it builds.

Also the ability to do integer math using 64 bit wide registers with 64 bit wide functional unit can be a decent performance win for several types of tasks.

yeah, what he said :p i knew someone would back me up

Mac Rules
Aug 4, 2006, 05:23 PM
New iMacs next Tuesday. I'll take one if it comes with a Conroe, Apple, thank you. But of course, if that's too hot, a Merom would do fine, too. Unless it will still use that dull 667MHz FSB, of course. At least put in an X1800 in it. Oh, and 1GB of RAM. And, while you're at it, throw in a 24" display too. And get rid of the lower bevel of the 'display design'. All that, and I'm buying straight away. If it will come pre-loaded with Leopard and will have a universal BlueRay/HD DVD-burner built-in, that is.

:rolleyes:

But seriously, I'm soooo ready for a new iMac. This 800MHz G4 iMac is getting old. It works like a charm, still, and is plenty fast for most stuff, but it just doesn't feel right anymore. Also, I never had quite the relationship with it as with my old 233MHz G3 iMac. I WANT A NEW iMAC! AND I WANT IT NOW!

We can all hope! ;)

Cheers

digitalbiker
Aug 4, 2006, 05:26 PM
1 - This is nothing new, and Apple is just being honest...the PB 12 and 15 were famous leg toasters as well...the times of the cool G3 are over long ago.

2 - it's at least 3 hours...no similar PC notebook does that...and the G4 wasnt better either.

3 - more space, perhaps?

Well this depends upon which G4 PB you compare it to.

I have the last PB G4 revision 17 inch. It runs comforably cool and I easily get 5+ hours of battery life under normal use. I don't even use the power saving functions. I usually run my display brightness about 3/4 of the way up.

I play DVD movies quite often and I can play two back to back 2 hour movies before my batteries need recharging.

AidenShaw
Aug 4, 2006, 05:28 PM
Yes - both AMD 64 and Intel EM64T are 64 bit extensions to the 32 bit x86 processor.

From what I understand the registers are still 32 bit, but the chips have a 64 bit address space and more registers.

In 64-bit mode, the integer registers can be used as 8/16/32/64 bit wide integers (just like the PPC970).

Floating registers are 32-bit or 64-bit wide, on both 32-bit x86 and 64-bit x64. 64-bit floats have always been there in 32-bit x86.


No-one has the need for a truly 64 bit machine at this point - just machines that can address more RAM. The 4GB RAM limit on 32 bit processors is beginning to be an issue for pro users.

Considering that 32-bit x86 chips have been able to address 64 GiB of RAM for many years - if your statement is correct then there would be no need for x64 at all.

In other words, lots of people need 64-bit for the addressing PER PROCESS, not per system (processor) as you say. (Actually, there's no "per processor" limit - a 2-way can't address more RAM than a 1-way.)

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 06:16 PM
Afterall it's just a couple lines of code. :D

Shouldn't be much code - the Adobe apps are already cross platform so there shouldn't be many endian issues to sort out. It's just a matter of changing development environments to use XCode and re-testing.

Not simple, but not something that should take almost 2 years either.

Bengt77
Aug 4, 2006, 06:42 PM
We can all hope! ;)

Cheers
Yeah, that's probably what it will turn out to be: hope, rather than reality. But when an iMac comes out with any Core 2 Duo processor and Leopard pre-loaded, I'm buying. An updated graphics card is higly welcome, as is more standard RAM, but the processor and OS are most important to me. Too bad Leopard is still quite some time off...

Does anyone know, if a new OS comes out soon after the release of a new computer model/revision, how long that 'soon' may be for Apple to offer a free upgrade to that new OS to all buyers of that particular computer? (Is that still understandable English? Worse, is it still English?)

CJM
Aug 4, 2006, 06:46 PM
Don't look now but the current Intel iMac has a laptop/SFF chip and chipset in it it. :eek:

:O *faints*

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 06:46 PM
In other words, lots of people need 64-bit for the addressing PER PROCESS, not per system (processor) as you say. (Actually, there's no "per processor" limit - a 2-way can't address more RAM than a 1-way.)

Too true. I have a Win2k app I've been developing which could use more than 4GB RAM - in fact more than 2GB RAM (Win2k won't let a process use more than 2GB for various reasons).

Even with the 32 bit processors supporting more than 4GB RAM, does Windows support it? Microsoft has a habit of not supporting things unless "a lot" of people will use it.

I don't think any of the current intel Macs support more than 4GB anyway, so it's a bit academic for Macs right now. Hopefully for not much longer...

Erasmus
Aug 4, 2006, 06:48 PM
New iMacs next Tuesday. I'll take one if it comes with a Conroe, Apple, thank you. But of course, if that's too hot, a Merom would do fine, too. Unless it will still use that dull 667MHz FSB, of course. At least put in an X1800 in it. Oh, and 1GB of RAM. And, while you're at it, throw in a 24" display too. And get rid of the lower bevel of the 'display design'. All that, and I'm buying straight away. If it will come pre-loaded with Leopard and will have a universal BlueRay/HD DVD-burner built-in, that is.

:rolleyes:

But seriously, I'm soooo ready for a new iMac. This 800MHz G4 iMac is getting old. It works like a charm, still, and is plenty fast for most stuff, but it just doesn't feel right anymore. Also, I never had quite the relationship with it as with my old 233MHz G3 iMac. I WANT A NEW iMAC! AND I WANT IT NOW!

Sounds like someone wants an iMac Ultra! (Really final Propaganda)
We Apple customers want an iMac with at LEAST (preferrably >>) 2.4 Conroe, at least an X1800 with 512 MB (Which should be quite likely if the PMs (sorry MPs) get SLI), a 23" screen, which Apple should have plenty of from their Cinema D's, and more RAM slots than you can polk a 2Gb RAM stick at (Meaning >=4), with most of them filled.

All for under AU$4 Grand.

That should take care of all gamers, any professionals who require a reasonably portable Desktop with awesome power, and in fact, anyone else.

--------------------

MBPs do use Lithium Polymer batteries. It says so on the Apple MBP website. I'm sure the MBs do too.

--------------------

As an aside, is anyone else here as happy as I am that we will never see one of those evil "Pentium" chips in our precious Macs? Hooray, there will be no Pentium 5! (Unless they call the Conroe line Pentium, like they keep calling Core Duo "Centrino Duo", to my utmost annoyance. Isn't Centrino the "Budget" brand name?)

Death (Or severe overheating and frying) to all Pentiums!

--------------------

Anyone else here interested in an iMac Ultra?

Anyone else have an extreme and probably unwarranted hatred of the Pentium moniker?

Bengt77
Aug 4, 2006, 06:55 PM
Sounds like someone wants an iMac Ultra! (Really final Propaganda)

All for under AU$4 Grand.
Yay! I'll take one the minute it comes out! How much is one AU$ in €? Let's see... AU$4000 is about €2400. Sounds reasonable to me. But I'm all for stretching it a bit. Let's say €2100/AU$3530. That's €400 more expensive than the current top model, which is €400 more expensive than the low-end iMac. Seems logical to me, maybe not so reasonable, but reason is soooo overrated these days! :D

Anyone else here interested in an iMac Ultra?

Anyone else have an extreme and probably unwarrented hatred of the Pentium moniker?
Yes! (And yes to c.q. about that Pentium name, too, by the way.)

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 06:56 PM
(Unless they call the Conroe line Pentium, like they keep calling Core Duo "Centrino Duo", to my utmost annoyance. Isn't Centrino the "Budget" brand name?)

Centrino is the name of Intel's mobile platform - the chipset, wireless capabilities and a mobile processor - originally the Pentium M, but now its replacement, the Core Solo/Duo.

The budget name is Celeron.

Erasmus
Aug 4, 2006, 07:11 PM
Centrino is the name of Intel's mobile platform - the chipset, wireless capabilities and a mobile processor - originally the Pentium M, but now its replacement, the Core Solo/Duo.

The budget name is Celeron.

Ugh! Damn names that all sound the same...
How am I supposed to remember that?
Well, anyway, I find it annoying. It's called Core Duo, and companies should not change the name on a whim.

Another thing I find annoying is that places like Domayne, Harvey Norman, Dick Smiths, etc, never mention what graphics card is in their computer. Granted, they all no doubt have integrated GPUs, but I would think the graphics card is pretty much the second most expensive computer component. Don't some high end graphics cards price upwards of a grand? that's more than these damn computers cost!
No doubt the world keeps saying Macs are too expensive. A Mac is advertised in a magazine, but they never mention they have graphics cards in them worth many hundreds of dollars, and are instead compared to integrated graphics systems, which come out looking better (more RAM, bigger screen, bigger HDD, etc.)

At least Macs seem to win out in Graphics and CPU speed.

End of Grump.

digitalbiker
Aug 4, 2006, 07:26 PM
Shouldn't be much code - the Adobe apps are already cross platform so there shouldn't be many endian issues to sort out. It's just a matter of changing development environments to use XCode and re-testing.

Not simple, but not something that should take almost 2 years either.

How many times does it have to be repeated? Adobe came out immediately after the Intel transition was announced that they would have an Apple UB version released simultaneously with the release of CS3.

They didn't want to slow development of CS3 for the Mac. CS2 was just released and a UB version would have taken significant effort for a very small market share. Since the only benefit would be to intel mac users which didn't even exist at the time.

Soon, probably first quarter 2007, a UB version of CS3 will appear about the sametime that the mac intel user base reaches a relavent market size.

The company that really deserves criticism is intuit. They recently released quicken 2007 and it was not UB. They were releasing a new product and they chose to ignore intel Mac users. Makes you wonder if they are going to stay in the mac market at all. Maybe in the future they will just recommend running parallel and windows, to use quicken on an intel mac.

Multimedia
Aug 4, 2006, 07:29 PM
The company that really deserves criticism is intuit. They recently released quicken 2007 and it was not UB. They were releasing a new product and they chose to ignore intel Mac users. Makes you wonder if they are going to stay in the mac market at all. Maybe in the future they will just recommend running parallel and windows, to use quicken on an intel mac.That version of Quicken doesn't run fast enough in Rosetta? Seems like it would. :confused: :eek:

WildCowboy
Aug 4, 2006, 07:33 PM
That's not really true of the SZ series either. The SZ ranges from 0.9 to 1.33" or so, and the drive area is in the thin part of it at the front

Looking closer, I can immediately see how they squeeze it into both of these computers...the trackpad isn't in the center of the laptop. How freaking messed up is that? They slid it over the to the left so that the optical drive could fit. That would bug the heck out of me.

Erasmus
Aug 4, 2006, 07:38 PM
Looking closer, I can immediately see how they squeeze it into both of these computers...the trackpad isn't in the center of the laptop. How freaking messed up is that? They slid it over the to the left so that the optical drive could fit. That would bug the heck out of me.

And obviously the guy who decided to design it that way was a leftie...
It would be OK, if you could choose what side ou put the track pad and CD drive on. It would be OK if it was off centre to the right, as I'm right handed, but moving my right hand to the left side would no doubt feel wierd and awkward.

worldfar
Aug 4, 2006, 08:17 PM
although the Merom is average faster than Yohan 10%~20%:cool:

Multimedia
Aug 4, 2006, 08:23 PM
although the Merom is average faster than Yohan 10%~20%:cool:By Thanksgiving. :)

darrens
Aug 4, 2006, 08:34 PM
How many times does it have to be repeated? Adobe came out immediately after the Intel transition was announced that they would have an Apple UB version released simultaneously with the release of CS3.

They didn't want to slow development of CS3 for the Mac. CS2 was just released and a UB version would have taken significant effort for a very small market share. Since the only benefit would be to intel mac users which didn't even exist at the time.

Soon, probably first quarter 2007, a UB version of CS3 will appear about the sametime that the mac intel user base reaches a relavent market size.

The company that really deserves criticism is intuit. They recently released quicken 2007 and it was not UB. They were releasing a new product and they chose to ignore intel Mac users. Makes you wonder if they are going to stay in the mac market at all. Maybe in the future they will just recommend running parallel and windows, to use quicken on an intel mac.

Who cares for Quicken - it's not performance critical. It probably wasn't worth the effort given the gains probaby wouldn't even be noticeable.

I'd think that all Apple's Pro apps market to the same small intel mac userbase, and they're done. They weren't cross platform so I'd think they weren't easy to port.

We all know Adobe's reasons - but still, two years is a long time.

illegalprelude
Aug 4, 2006, 08:53 PM
DO you guys think the Mac MINI will get a speed bump anytime soon? A friend of mine, shes looking to come over to the Mac side and the MINI seems perfect for her needs but something faster would be nice then the current.

Detlev
Aug 4, 2006, 08:54 PM
Who cares for Quicken - it's not performance critical. It probably wasn't worth the effort given the gains probaby wouldn't even be noticeable.
The market for small businesses running their office/financials is small indeed but isn't an executive of Intuit on the Apple BOD? They should have been ahead of the game. It is suprising that the 2007 product line is not Universal. Oh, I would argue that it is performance critical. Try crunching numbers all day...

I did not hear of any market research by Intuit on the subject but I'm sure they are aware that their users are using BootCamp or Parallels and using the Windows versions (which are much more developed). Check their forums, users every day are posting they are "switching" away. This comes back to the "doomsday" reports of old when Apple announced the move to Intel. Will developers give up developing for Macs when Mac users themselves are booting up Windows on their machines? Time will tell.

Detlev
Aug 4, 2006, 09:01 PM
The company that really deserves criticism is intuit. They recently released quicken 2007 and it was not UB. They were releasing a new product and they chose to ignore intel Mac users. Makes you wonder if they are going to stay in the mac market at all. Maybe in the future they will just recommend running parallel and windows, to use quicken on an intel mac.
Users are already moving away from the Mac versions. When Intuit announced they were here to stay in 2003 there was a lot of criticism about how they left Mac users stranded for six years. Look who is abandoning who now. If they were to close up Mac development, few would care. I'm betting they will be just one of many companies to do it too.

digitalbiker
Aug 4, 2006, 09:09 PM
Who cares for Quicken - it's not performance critical. It probably wasn't worth the effort given the gains probaby wouldn't even be noticeable.

I'd think that all Apple's Pro apps market to the same small intel mac userbase, and they're done. They weren't cross platform so I'd think they weren't easy to port.

We all know Adobe's reasons - but still, two years is a long time.

First, Apple's apps were easier to port because they were already XCode. So it was fairly easy for Apple to just recompile with the new compiler.

Second, Adobe was using a lot of CodeWarrior code and it would be far more difficult to convert. Also having X86 code compiled using MS VStudio doesn't help Adobe to be ahead in generating X86 code under XCode because they run under a completely different GUI and access different libraries.

Third, even Apple released the UB code with a new updated version of their pro apps. Adobe's CS3 was not due for a year and a half.

Fourth, Adobe announced their plans early on so that everyone would know what to expect.

My point about intuit is that Apple announced the transition before Intuit even began work on Quicken 2007. Quicken hardly relies on any graphics code, is mostly text, and number based. Yet they chose to ignore converting to UB code even though now would be perfect timing to do so. In addition they have not announced any plans to create UB's in the future.

Sure quicken will run with Rosetta, but is that what we want from developers. Forget about modernizing their code because they can make it run in an artificial emulated environment.

With that logic Intuit should have stuck with OS9 versions of quicken as it could always be run fine in classic.

GW3
Aug 4, 2006, 09:10 PM
If Im not mistaken every KeyNote from Steve Jobs, whether at WWDC, MacWorld or any other event from Apple has been on tuesdays. Why is this one DIFFERENT. Could we see a Movie Store on Tuesday ???????

cgc
Aug 4, 2006, 09:12 PM
although the Merom is average faster than Yohan 10%~20%:cool:
Even accounting for the 8% increase in clock speed that's an nice performance boost.

Erasmus
Aug 4, 2006, 09:20 PM
It seems to me that the future of running Windows on our Macs is to not run Windows on our Macs.

There are now at least two programs that allow a user to run Windows software without having to fork out the cost of the Windows OS, having to install it, or having to use or even look at it.

After the issues of differences in speed between Windows OS and Mac OS, being some programs, especially games, run better in Windows using Boot Camp, there will be no point in using Parallels or Boot Camp, and Apple will hopefully create their own version of Crossover, etc. This would only happen if Apple were to gain a significant marketshare, and were willing to take on Microsoft, who would probably find any and all loopholes and reasons to sue Apple through the ground, out the other side, and half way across the known universe. After all, who would use Windows if you could run all your programs on superior hardware, in a superior operating system?

I remain hopeful that this will one day happen, especially if Apple could create a way of running Direct X in System, or make their own graphics drivers that are equal to or better than DX10.

First we had to reboot. Then we only needed Windows. Now we don't. All we need now, is for Apple to royally screw Microsoft, and take over as the leading provider of operating systems. The time has come for a long and bloody revolution! Viva La Applé! Judgement Day on Microsoft is nigh!

Crusade anyone? Free Torches and Pitchforks. The cost of all projectile weaponry must be supported by the wielder, and I take no responsibility for the consequences of your actions.

;)

AidenShaw
Aug 4, 2006, 09:21 PM
Too true. I have a Win2k app I've been developing which could use more than 4GB RAM - in fact more than 2GB RAM (Win2k won't let a process use more than 2GB for various reasons)....

Actually, Win2K Server and later can support 3 GiB of private RAM per process - there's a boot flag to raise the 2 GiB limit to 3 GiB.

Even with the 32 bit processors supporting more than 4GB RAM, does Windows support it? Microsoft has a habit of not supporting things unless "a lot" of people will use it.
Yes, boot Win2k Server and later with the /PAE boot flag - the entire physical RAM space (except for maybe a bit for I/O) is available to the system. Couple that with the 3 GiB flag, and you can use the memory.

Linux also supports the 64 GiB limit with 32-bit CPUs - remember that Windows isn't the only other x86 operating system ;)

Multimedia
Aug 4, 2006, 09:29 PM
If Im not mistaken every KeyNote from Steve Jobs, whether at WWDC, MacWorld or any other event from Apple has been on tuesdays. Why is this one DIFFERENT. Could we see a Movie Store on Tuesday ???????You are mistaken. WWDC SteveNotes are always on Monday morning, the first event of the week long conference. MacWorld Conference & Exposition SF SteveNotes are always on Tuesdays, the day the Expo opens, two days after the Conference begins on Sunday. :) Next one is Januray 9, 2007 - only 5 months from Tuesday.

digitalbiker
Aug 4, 2006, 09:33 PM
It seems to me that the future of running Windows on our Macs is to not run Windows on our Macs.;)

Actually, I think Apple would be far more successful in letting Microsoft develop a better version of Virtual PC for OS X. Then people could run their Windows apps at near native performance. The machine would be a little safer from a virus infection stand point and Apple wouldn't have MS all over their back with lawsuits.

Microsoft would make money on their software and Apple would make money on their hardware as well as software.

Whats wrong with that! Everyone is happy. No revolution or bloody war. Just plenty of apps and great hardware.:D

aswitcher
Aug 4, 2006, 09:36 PM
DO you guys think the Mac MINI will get a speed bump anytime soon? A friend of mine, shes looking to come over to the Mac side and the MINI seems perfect for her needs but something faster would be nice then the current.

By years end I would say so. By Jan 2007 at the latest. We need to see the iMac get a bump first. That may occur at Paris in September.

Multimedia
Aug 4, 2006, 09:45 PM
DO you guys think the Mac MINI will get a speed bump anytime soon? A friend of mine, shes looking to come over to the Mac side and the MINI seems perfect for her needs but something faster would be nice then the current.By years end I would say so. By Jan 2007 at the latest. We need to see the iMac get a bump first. That may occur at Paris in September.I agree but think likely by Thanksgiving. I think mini will get the 1.66 GHz Core 2 Duo Combo and 1.8 GHz Core 2 Duo Superdrive upgrades thus ending the last Mac to have only one core as well as the end of all 32-bit Macs. :)

Erasmus
Aug 4, 2006, 10:05 PM
I agree but think likely by Thanksgiving. I think mini will get the 1.6 GHz Core 2 Duo Combo and 1.87 GHz Core 2 Duo Superdrive upgrades thus ending the last Mac to have only one core as well as the end of all 32-bit Macs. :)

OK, being an Australian, and blissfully ignorant to the ways of the American, when is Thanksgiving? Before or after Paris?

I say new iPods at Paris, and maybe some software. It would be great if all Macs were Core 2 Generation before the Paris Expo.

digitalbiker
Aug 4, 2006, 10:10 PM
OK, being an Australian, and blissfully ignorant to the ways of the American, when is Thanksgiving? Before or after Paris?

I say new iPods at Paris, and maybe some software. It would be great if all Macs were Core 2 Generation before the Paris Expo.

After Paris. Nov. 23, 2006 to be exact. Too bad you Aussies don't celebrate Thanksgiving. It is all about eating, drinking and watching football.

Multimedia
Aug 4, 2006, 10:37 PM
After Paris. Nov. 23, 2006 to be exact. Too bad you Aussies don't celebrate Thanksgiving. It is all about eating, drinking and watching football.Speaking of Football, NBC Premieres Sunday Night Football this Sunday night (http://www.snfonnbc.com/) at 8PM East - 5PM West live from Canton Ohio. John Madden is inducted into the Hall of Fame on Saturday and then shares the booth with Al Michaels in their new HD premiere broadcast pitting the Oakland Raiders against the Philadelphia Eagles. Let the games begin. :D

We get 10 exhibition games this month from the three broadcast networks. Whoopie. :D

ozontheroad
Aug 4, 2006, 11:04 PM
After Paris. Nov. 23, 2006 to be exact. Too bad you Aussies don't celebrate Thanksgiving. It is all about eating, drinking and watching football.

Actually every weekend in Oz is about eating (BBQ) drinking (VB) and watching football (actualy... rugby, aussie rules, and cricket)

(i must say that i do like american football)

:D so you could say that we celebrate thxgiving 52 times per year

bradc
Aug 4, 2006, 11:05 PM
I agree but think likely by Thanksgiving. I think mini will get the 1.66 GHz Core 2 Duo Combo and 1.8 GHz Core 2 Duo Superdrive upgrades thus ending the last Mac to have only one core as well as the end of all 32-bit Macs. :)

Yeah I'd hedge on that bet too. Makes sense, if not faster?

Raidersmojo
Aug 4, 2006, 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by digitalbiker
After Paris. Nov. 23, 2006 to be exact. Too bad you Aussies don't celebrate Thanksgiving. It is all about eating, drinking and watching football.
Speaking of Football, NBC Premieres Sunday Night Football this Sunday night at 8PM East - 5PM West live from Canton Ohio. John Madden is inducted into the Hall of Fame on Saturday and then shares the booth with Al Michaels in their new HD premiere broadcast pitting the Oakland Raiders against the Philadelphia Eagles. Let the games begin.

We get 10 exhibition games this month from the three broadcast networks. Whoopie.
__________________


Go raiders :cool: :D

killr_b
Aug 4, 2006, 11:40 PM
Actually every weekend in Oz is about eating (BBQ) drinking (VB) and watching football (actualy... rugby, aussie rules, and cricket)

(i must say that i do like american football)

:D so you could say that we celebrate thxgiving 52 times per year


Actually you were missinformed.
Thanksgiving is about putting up with the rest of your family (in-laws) just for one night so you can borrow money from them (father-in-law) the rest of the year.:D

The other 51 weeks are for exactly what you said, and waiting 'till next tuesday...:D

I for one can't sleep until monday. It's like Disneyland but can be delivered to my door... and watched on the web. Whoa... I better put this Kool-aid back... I may hurt myself with excitment. Is that a condition?
Like Meromonia, or Woodcrestilization of the the 'puter?:D

Erasmus
Aug 5, 2006, 12:44 AM
Actually every weekend in Oz is about eating (BBQ) drinking (VB) and watching football (actualy... rugby, aussie rules, and cricket)

(i must say that i do like american football)

:D so you could say that we celebrate thxgiving 52 times per year

Union Tonight!

GO THE WALLABIES!!!
We'll flog South Africa, and send them skulking home!

Thx digitalbiker. I hope stuff gets updated much before Thanksgiving then, cos that's too far away. My uni semster will be almost over by then!

neonfever
Aug 5, 2006, 12:58 AM
Just a few thoughts.

I think if there's any product that deserves to have a Merom in it this monday, it has to be the iMac. It's been virtually the same since the day it rolled out earlier this year. Because of the way it's designed I don't think they will put a conroe in it although it is a 'desktop' in it's own way.

Merom is gonna be great, esp for the ones still waiting to jump onto the intel-mac bandwagon, but doesn't offer much for those already with an intel-mac. I think the intel-macs have enough performance to go about for quite a while. What we really need is more UNIVERSAL BINARY SOFTWARES! I still use windows for heavy CS2 usage at the moment. How sad is that. I know this is not going to happen any time soon as adobe has announced no CS3 until 2007, but I think a considerable amount of people here would be more excited to hear about CS3 or at least a target shipment date for it on monday. How about a UB Maya and Sketchbook Pro?

Heck i'd trade off a full year of intel-mac upgrades if someone created UB's for everything right now.

darrens
Aug 5, 2006, 03:04 AM
First, Apple's apps were easier to port because they were already XCode. So it was fairly easy for Apple to just recompile with the new compiler.

Are you sure that's true for all of them? They haven't owned Logic very long, and some of the others started life outside of Apple. I'm sure they had a few issues there.

Second, Adobe was using a lot of CodeWarrior code and it would be far more difficult to convert. Also having X86 code compiled using MS VStudio doesn't help Adobe to be ahead in generating X86 code under XCode because they run under a completely different GUI and access different libraries.

They have the MacOS X GUI code - that doesn't change for Intel - the OS is the same. The core logic endianness doesn't depend on the compiler - the code would be cross-platform and compile on GCC and Visual Studio anyway. Sure they have to deal with a few Codewarrior issues - but they have to do that for the new version anyway. It's not like they'd have to do it twice.

Third, even Apple released the UB code with a new updated version of their pro apps. Adobe's CS3 was not due for a year and a half.

True - but not all Apple's pro apps had a significant level of new features - they were just an interim release.

Fourth, Adobe announced their plans early on so that everyone would know what to expect.

Yes - don't expect us to be as pro-active as we've been in the past. I can remember when Apple went PPC - Adobe had an accelerator out for Photoshop close to the release date of the PPC Macs, and the fully PPC version followed shortly after.

My point about intuit is that Apple announced the transition before Intuit even began work on Quicken 2007. Quicken hardly relies on any graphics code, is mostly text, and number based. Yet they chose to ignore converting to UB code even though now would be perfect timing to do so. In addition they have not announced any plans to create UB's in the future.

This is also the sort of app that gets the least advantage from conversion. It's still a fair amount of work to change development environments when there's no real advantage to it. Especially when Intuit is really given token support to the Mac anyway.

Sure quicken will run with Rosetta, but is that what we want from developers. Forget about modernizing their code because they can make it run in an artificial emulated environment.

With that logic Intuit should have stuck with OS9 versions of quicken as it could always be run fine in classic.

It's hardly the same - you have to boot a second copy of MacOS to run a classic app (which is really slow) and it doesn't integrate seamlessly. You can hardly tell an app is running in Rosetta - there's no visual difference.