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Koodauw
Aug 4, 2006, 12:07 PM
by Jocelyne Zablit Fri Aug 4, 4:38 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Readers of a US parenting magazine are crying foul over the publication's latest cover depicting a woman breastfeeding, with some calling the photo offensive and disgusting.

"I was SHOCKED to see a giant breast on the cover of your magazine," one woman from Kansas wrote in reaction to the picture in Babytalk, a free magazine that caters to young mothers. "I was offended and it made my husband very uncomfortable when I left the magazine on the coffee table."

Her reaction was part of some 5,000 letters the magazine has received in response to a poll to gage reader sentiment about Babytalk's August cover photo, which shows a baby nursing.

Several readers said they were "embarrassed" or "offended" by the Babytalk photo and one woman from Nevada said she "immediately turned the magazine face down" when she saw the photo.

"Gross, I am sick of seeing a baby attached to a boob," the mother of a four-month-old said.

Another reader said she was "horrified" when she received the magazine and hoped that her husband hadn't laid eyes on it.

"I had to rip off the cover since I didn't want it laying around the house," she said.

A national television program also ran a segment on the controversy, interviewing several people in New York who expressed disgust over the cover photo.

The picture in Babytalk was aimed at illustrating the controversy surrounding breastfeeding in the United States, where a national survey by the American Dietetic Association found that 57 percent of those polled are opposed to women breastfeeding in public and 72 percent think it is inappropriate to show a woman breastfeeding on television programs.

Babytalk executive editor Lisa Moran said though most of those who responded to the poll about the cover photo gave the magazine a thumbs up, she was surprised that some 25 percent expressed outrage.

"There is a real puritanical streak in America," Moran told AFP. "You see celebrities practically baring their breasts all the time and no one seems to mind in this sort of sexual context.

"But in this very natural context of feeding your child, a lot of Americans are very uncomfortable with it."

She said the controversy is all the more surprising in light of concerted efforts by the US government and health professionals to encourage women to breastfeed.

"Everyone is saying that breastfeeding is best for baby but there is so little support for it in public," Moran said.

She said the Babytalk cover photo marks the first time a major parenting magazine in the United States dares to break the taboo about showing a woman's breast and the outrage it has prompted is not about to discourage editors from doing it again.

"This hasn't scared us off at all," Moran said. "We're thrilled and hopefully this will help women get more support for nursing."

I don't see the big deal with this being on the cover of a magazine, its not graphic in any sort of way, just natural occurrence. However, I don't like it when people do this in public, something like the rest room, or some more private area is a more appropriate place.

Leareth
Aug 4, 2006, 12:14 PM
Oversensitive types overreacting.

Nothing wrong with it , perfectly normal nice image, there are always those who blow it out of proportion...

I have no problems with a woman breastfeeding in public either, most of the time you can't even tell.

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 12:17 PM
That's really sad. There's absolutely no need to be offended by that in any way, especially when there's not even a nipple visible!

I personally don't have a problem with people breastfeeding in public. I don't even think it should be done in a restroom (that's a toilet/bathroom, yes?). Why should a baby have to feed in a bathroom? I think it's maybe nicer for a mum and her baby to go somewhere a bit quieter than in the middle of a noisy street or whatever, just so it's a bit more private and quieter for their sake, but I certainly don't think they should have to. People who are offended by this need to get over themselves.

However, I am slightly amused by "it made my husband very uncomfortable when I left the magazine on the coffee table". Why? Did he have to adjust his trousers? :p

Queso
Aug 4, 2006, 12:18 PM
Being a European an image like that isn't even out of place, let alone shocking. What is it with you Americans and breasts? A baby has to eat.

In addition, it's actually a really cute photo.

emw
Aug 4, 2006, 12:19 PM
The problem isn't that it was a picture of a baby breast-feeding, it's that it wasn't Angelina Jolie doing it. :rolleyes:

Did he have to adjust his trousers? :p
Ha! The funny thing is, there's nothing sexual at all about that picture.

This is a perfectly natural act, and one that I find no issue with if women choose to breast-feed publicly. My wife has breast fed our children, and will do so with the third. Women in general are very discreet about this - they no more want to "expose themselves" than most people want to see it (or will admit to wanting to see it).

njmac
Aug 4, 2006, 12:23 PM
Usually women who nurse are pretty discreet about it because they don't want people looking at them either.

I think the people in the article are overreacting in a big way. Rip the cover off so your husband doesn't see it? Yeah, that marriage is stable :rolleyes:

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 12:26 PM
Being a European an image like that isn't even out of place, let alone shocking.
I just don't understand you Europeans and your views on these sorts of things.

That cover is pornography, plain and simple.

If it were a picture of a dead or injured child in a war-torn area with a nice tank in the background, that'd be fine.

If it were a side view of Britney Spears' breast with no baby, also fine.

But a nursing infant? Please. That's akin to showing someone in the act of defecating.

And as far as doing it in public is concerned: people should limit themselves to doing normal, natural things, like smoking, shopping, and eating. Something perverse like breast-feeding should be hidden in shame.

MrSmith
Aug 4, 2006, 12:27 PM
This is from the nation that finds the word 'toilet' disgusting and has to ask for the 'bathroom' in a restaurant :rolleyes:

And it seems to be the women that find it offensive. Having to hide it in case her husband sees it?! Why? Is he going to vomit...or be unable to control his pants? My mother's answer to this kind of thing is a stock, "Well, people go to the toilet everyday but you don't see pictures of that everywhere". That's a completely different thing, i.e. dirty waste products. Breastfeeding is a clean, natural procedure and - most importantly - this is on the cover of a magazine concerned with caring for babies! Any grown man who feels uncomfortable when he sees a picture of a breast (sans nipple, to boot) must have a lot of issues brewing away in his psyche.

As for breastfeeding in public, it's OK by me, as long as I don't have to see babies bring milk up. I've had three of my own so to me it's no big deal. Maybe other sectors of the population will have a different opinion.

patrick0brien
Aug 4, 2006, 12:29 PM
In my little world this is in a similar category as "someone donating to the toilet". We know it happens, just don't flaunt it.

Don't we have enough to worry about?

Edit: That's not to say I feel this disgusting. It's just no big deal, as long as people let it be no big deal.

nbs2
Aug 4, 2006, 12:29 PM
Just to echo the complaints of the other posts here, I would love to see how people are willing to let the sexual connotation of breasts (e.g. Brittany Spears Rolling Stone, Victoria's Secret catalog, etc) slide and get offended by this. I hope the offended people end up barren, divorced, lonely and never have contact with children.

MrSmith
Aug 4, 2006, 12:29 PM
I just don't understand you Europeans and your views on these sorts of things.

That cover is pornography, plain and simple.

If it were a picture of a dead or injured child in a war-torn area with a nice tank in the background, that'd be fine.

If it were a side view of Britney Spears' breast with no baby, also fine.

But a nursing infant? Please. That's akin to showing someone in the act of defecating.

And as far as doing it in public is concerned: people should limit themselves to doing normal, natural things, like smoking, shopping, and eating. Something perverse like breast-feeding should be hidden in shame.

Who will you catch...?

emw
Aug 4, 2006, 12:39 PM
In my little world this is in a similar category as "someone donating to the toilet".So breast-feeding a child is the same as taking a ****? Interesting viewpoint, I suppose.

Edit: After reading your edit, I think I understand your point more clearly: "Don't announce to the world you're about to breast-feed and make a production of it, just do it." I can agree with that.

quagmire
Aug 4, 2006, 12:40 PM
And as far as doing it in public is concerned: people should limit themselves to doing normal, natural things, like smoking, shopping, and eating. Something perverse like breast-feeding should be hidden in shame.

Why is Breast feeding shameful? Breasts are part of the womens body for a reason and sorry it isn't for intercourse. The main reason for breasts is so the mother can feed her kids. Breast feeding is normal and natural. And you are a hypocrite. Eating is natural, but not breast feeding? The baby is eating the milk from the breast as a part of the babies diet. Smoking isn't natural. Smoking while accepted in society, kills you and humans aren't supposed to do it. What is next? Crystal Meth being normal and Natural when it is being compared to Breast feeding? :rolleyes:

Danksi
Aug 4, 2006, 12:40 PM
I'd find a picture of a baby drinking from a bottle of formula much much much more disturbing than that.

CANEHDN
Aug 4, 2006, 12:40 PM
I don't even think it should be done in a restroom (that's a toilet/bathroom, yes?). Why should a baby have to feed in a bathroom?

Much agreed. If people think a mother should feed their baby in the washroom then they should have to eat their McDonalds in the washroom. If people don't like it or feel offended by it, then don't look. And if women are saying their husbands are offended, that's just their way of saying that that woman who was breastfeeding had better looking boobs than her and is jealous that their husbands might have seen it.


Don't we have enough to worry about?

You don't have to worry about it. It's none of your business. That's one problem I've seen with people. They think everything that's going on around them is their business.

dejo
Aug 4, 2006, 12:42 PM
How do we know that's not an ass-kissing baby? ;)

kretzy
Aug 4, 2006, 12:43 PM
Why is Breast feeding shameful? Breasts are part of the womens body for a reason and sorry it isn't for intercourse. The main reason for breasts is so the mother can feed her kids. Breast feeding is normal and natural. And you are a hypocrite. Eating is natural, but not breast feeding? The baby is eating the milk from the breast as a part of the babies diet. Smoking isn't natural. Smoking while accepted in society, kills you and humans aren't supposed to do it. What is next? Crystal Meth being normal and Natural when it is being compared to Breast feeding? :rolleyes:
Someone's sarcasm detector is offline.

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 12:44 PM
Ha! The funny thing is, there's nothing sexual at all about that picture.

Sorry, yeah, it was just the impression I got from the article. :p

What were these women so concerned about? That their husbands would start furiously tugging away over the picture?(sorry!)That they would be unable to control themselves if they ever saw a woman breastfeeding in public? That they would suddenly want to be breastfed?! I'm not being flippant (much!) but I really don't understand what reaction the women were expecting their husbands to have.

I can kind of understand people not liking seeing breastfeeding in public if they've been brought up to believe that breasts are 'dirty' or that it's somehow shameful (although I think they're totally wrong), but I'm genuinely racking my brains here over what the women think their husbands are going to do.

Shaun.P
Aug 4, 2006, 12:45 PM
I just don't understand you Europeans and your views on these sorts of things.

That cover is pornography, plain and simple.

If it were a picture of a dead or injured child in a war-torn area with a nice tank in the background, that'd be fine.

If it were a side view of Britney Spears' breast with no baby, also fine.

But a nursing infant? Please. That's akin to showing someone in the act of defecating.

And as far as doing it in public is concerned: people should limit themselves to doing normal, natural things, like smoking, shopping, and eating. Something perverse like breast-feeding should be hidden in shame.

Are you kidding?

Tanglewood
Aug 4, 2006, 12:45 PM
by Jocelyne Zablit Fri Aug 4, 4:38 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Readers...

"There is a real puritanical streak in America," Moran told AFP. "You see celebrities practically baring their breasts all the time and no one seems to mind in this sort of sexual context.

"But in this very natural context of feeding your child, a lot of Americans are very uncomfortable with it."





When I read this part I was thinking about Robin Williams 2002 Live on Broadway Standup.


Episcopal is basically Church of England which was Henry the 8th
breaking away from the Catholic Church: "I'm the ********** Pope now!"
Than people broke away from that church,
the Calvinists found him to be too loose.
Than the Puritans broke away from the Calvinists, our ancestors,
people so uptight, the English kicked them out.
How anal do you have to be for the English to go: "Get the ******* out!"
"Take your pimp shoes and go!"
And they land here in America...

Seriously the over-reaction of these people, "Another reader said she was "horrified" when she received the magazine and hoped that her husband hadn't laid eyes on it." Is insane.

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 12:46 PM
Who will you catch...?

quagmire, mainly. ;)

iGary
Aug 4, 2006, 12:48 PM
I don't personally mind the image, and yes, I do think Americans could be a little less sensitive in areas like this (I mean what is the worst question your kids could ask you about said image), but I think breast feeding should be as discreet as the person can make it for others. Just my personal feeling.

njmac
Aug 4, 2006, 12:51 PM
I just don't understand you Europeans and your views on these sorts of things.

That cover is pornography, plain and simple.

If it were a picture of a dead or injured child in a war-torn area with a nice tank in the background, that'd be fine.

If it were a side view of Britney Spears' breast with no baby, also fine.

But a nursing infant? Please. That's akin to showing someone in the act of defecating.

And as far as doing it in public is concerned: people should limit themselves to doing normal, natural things, like smoking, shopping, and eating. Something perverse like breast-feeding should be hidden in shame.

What's really disturbing is that people are taking you seriously. :confused: :rolleyes: Sarcasm is a dying art.

I'd find a picture of a baby drinking from a bottle of formula much much much more disturbing than that.

But don't jump to conclusions... the baby could be adopted or the mother is unable to nurse. People are always so judgemental about mothers.

nbs2
Aug 4, 2006, 12:53 PM
I think breast feeding should be as discreet as the person can make it for others.
I can see your point there. Discretion is proper - I don't want to see that Kansas cow ever chew with her mouth open or talk with her mouth full either.

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 12:55 PM
I can see the case for discretion, but I think most women want to be fairly discreet themselves.

Applespider
Aug 4, 2006, 12:56 PM
Most women who breastfeed in public are pretty discreet - they wear tops and nursing bras that don't 'expose' much flesh - and they really don't want to draw attention to themselves. The 6 months or so immediately after giving birth aren't when most women feel at their most attractive!

Those who suggest restrooms - eesh, I hate using most public toilets since they're not particularly clean and you want mothers to relax on a toilet and feed their child? Our company has 'parent and baby' rooms in our stores with a supply of emergency nappies and a nursing chair but most mothers prefer to sit in the cafe where they can have a drink and watch the world go by a little more.

As for that photo, it's nothing. I do recall though at one point when helping put together a Parenting catalogue, there being issues that, in the UK, you couldn't show a baby with a bottle unless a baby with a breast had equal coverage. Similarly, there were limits to how you showed babies being bathed etc... makes you quite sad about the world we live in

Unorthodox
Aug 4, 2006, 12:57 PM
I just don't understand you Europeans and your views on these sorts of things.

That cover is pornography, plain and simple.

If it were a picture of a dead or injured child in a war-torn area with a nice tank in the background, that'd be fine.

If it were a side view of Britney Spears' breast with no baby, also fine.

But a nursing infant? Please. That's akin to showing someone in the act of defecating.

And as far as doing it in public is concerned: people should limit themselves to doing normal, natural things, like smoking, shopping, and eating. Something perverse like breast-feeding should be hidden in shame.
You need to add some :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
You are confusing people.
Or at least I hope your being sarcastic...

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 12:59 PM
Are you kidding?
Yes.

In fact, I thought about saying I was kidding, but then I thought "how could someone even possibly think I'm not kidding?" I didn't think I needed the smilies. I thought phrases like "with a nice tank in the background" and "normal, natural things, like smoking" would be sufficient.

I should have realized from past experience that, no matter how much I try to make it obvious I'm being sarcastic, some people will assume I'm serious.
Who will you catch...?
I never pick a big enough net and always catch more than I expect... sadly enough.

CANEHDN
Aug 4, 2006, 01:05 PM
I bet you could post an image of a baby sucking someones elbow and make it look like this image. People would still make a fuss about it and not even know that it's nothing but an elbow.

miniConvert
Aug 4, 2006, 01:07 PM
<-- not bothered.

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 01:08 PM
I bet you could post an image of a baby sucking someones elbow and make it look like this image. People would still make a fuss about it and not even know that it's nothing but an elbow.
You have no idea how right you are.

The sad fact is that the cover pic is actually is one of my daughter kissing one of my "love handles" a few months ago. I was too ashamed to admit it until now, but I feel the truth should come out.

MrSmith
Aug 4, 2006, 01:11 PM
You have no idea how right you are.

The sad fact is that the cover pic is actually is one of my daughter kissing one of my "love handles" a few months ago. I was too ashamed to admit it until now, but I feel the truth should come out.

An even sadder fact is that it could be a picture of a baby sucking my 'breast'. Then again my diet is proceeding well, so I'm no longer THAT big. :o

And I'm hairier.

A hairy breast...now THAT would be offensive.

jayb2000
Aug 4, 2006, 01:12 PM
more boobs in public=better :D

Seriously, my daughter is 6months old and needs to eat. My wife does it discreetly and with no fuss.

Its the best food for the baby and has huge health benefits for the Mom, and is perfectly natural.
It is either
a) The result of millions of years of evolution resulting in very effective food souce for babies
b) God's design on how to feed babies

Eitherway, it is certainly not offensive, not sexual, and not worth any outcry.

iGary
Aug 4, 2006, 01:16 PM
I can see your point there. Discretion is proper - I don't want to see that Kansas cow ever chew with her mouth open or talk with her mouth full either.

Well lets put it this way - there are women around here that will whip their hooter out and shove it in their kids mouth in the middle of the mall, without trying even a little to be gentle and discreet.

Good for them - doesn't mean I have to like looking at her big fat aureola. :D

njmac
Aug 4, 2006, 01:18 PM
You have no idea how right you are.

The sad fact is that the cover pic is actually is one of my daughter kissing one of my "love handles" a few months ago. I was too ashamed to admit it until now, but I feel the truth should come out.

Really!? sorry, couldn't resist :-p

MrSmith
Aug 4, 2006, 01:19 PM
Good for them - doesn't mean I have to like looking at her big fat aureola. :D

I thought you could only see those above the Arctic Circle :D :D

Josh
Aug 4, 2006, 01:21 PM
I could go for some more public displays of breast feeding, myself.

iGary
Aug 4, 2006, 01:21 PM
I thought you could only see those above the Arctic Circle :D :D

Depoends on the latitude and your spelling ineptitude. ;)

MrSmith
Aug 4, 2006, 01:24 PM
Depoends on the latitude and your spelling ineptitude. ;)

How many layers down are we now? :D

Deepdale
Aug 4, 2006, 01:27 PM
Good judgment and a respectable degree of decorum are nice when you can get them from other parties. Having said that, I usually have no problems with nursing moms as I have not encountered outlandish public situations.

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 01:27 PM
How many layers down are we now? :D
Not nearly enough. We Americans prefer things to be very well covered up.

iTwitch
Aug 4, 2006, 01:33 PM
Just to echo the complaints of the other posts here, I would love to see how people are willing to let the sexual connotation of breasts (e.g. Brittany Spears Rolling Stone, Victoria's Secret catalog, etc) slide and get offended by this. I hope the offended people end up barren, divorced, lonely and never have contact with children.

Ouch! But it's no big deal.

nbs2
Aug 4, 2006, 01:41 PM
Ouch! But it's no big deal.
I feel like it is a big deal - my kid shouldn't have to feed in the bathroom. My wife shouldn't be subject to rude or disparaging remarks because she is helping to keep our child alive. She isn't planning on breastfeeding because she enjoys it (She's never met a woman that breastfeeds and doesn't have sore nipples), but because it is necessary. I really, really, really, don't like the people in that group of 5000.

Lyle
Aug 4, 2006, 01:46 PM
Depoends on the latitude and your spelling ineptitude. ;)People who live in glass houses shouldn't point out their neighbors' spelling ineptitude. Or something like that. :p

"I was SHOCKED to see a giant breast on the cover of your magazine," one woman from Kansas wrote in reaction to the picture in Babytalk, a free magazine that caters to young mothers. "I was offended and it made my husband very uncomfortable when I left the magazine on the coffee table."I love that she was shocked and offended by the magazine's cover, yet felt comfortable leaving it in plain sight on her coffee table.

Kernow
Aug 4, 2006, 01:47 PM
Absolutely bloody daft.

I'm completely baffled by the statement that a husband felt uncomfortable. Reminds me of 19th century England when they had to cover up curvy table legs to stop the gentlemen from becoming overexcited.

I'm not offended in the slightest by a woman breastfeeding - it is perfectly natural.

What does disturb me though is a program I saw on Channel 4 a while back where mothers were still breastfeeding their kids at age 7. That is weird.

CANEHDN
Aug 4, 2006, 01:53 PM
(Just so you know, this is my wife posting. Not me)
2 things I would like to note here from a nursing mothers perspective.

1) So many people are worried about how it makes them feel and have no regard for the mom's feelings. I was pumping breast milk in the mothers lounge at my work (a little more exposed than if my baby were eating) and several women would walk right in on their way to the bathroom to set their stuff on the table, peek in just to see what was going on or try and take naps in the chair they povided for us. Now that is just downright rude and blatent disregard for privacy. Every time someone walked in I wanted to shout "I'll show you mine if you show me yours!" It is also very hard dealing with glares and comments from onlookers, even if you are being discreet.

2) I wonder if these offended people would really rather listen to a hysterical baby over having the mother nurse in public. You can avert your eyes but not your ears!

njmac
Aug 4, 2006, 01:53 PM
What does disturb me though is a program I saw on Channel 4 a while back where mothers were still breastfeeding their kids at age 7. That is weird.


haha, if I saw a 7 year old go for a drink from his mothers breast when he was 7 :eek: I would be a little disturbed. But I guess each to his own..

yellow
Aug 4, 2006, 01:54 PM
Does a nursing baby offend me?

Only if she won't let me watch. I'm even willing to contribute a few $ to the cause.

Deepdale
Aug 4, 2006, 01:54 PM
I love that she was shocked and offended by the magazine's cover, yet felt comfortable in leaving it in plain sight on her coffee table.

Hypocrisy is rampant. At least she made a connection between milk and coffee (or at least her precious coffee table).

Lord Blackadder
Aug 4, 2006, 01:55 PM
Public breastfeeding....I don't really care about it one way or another. The baby is hungry, he/she gets fed...Why is it such a big, "shocking" deal anyway? I can't relate to those people...you can put me down in the "pro-breast" camp on this one. :)

iTwitch
Aug 4, 2006, 02:04 PM
I feel like it is a big deal - my kid shouldn't have to feed in the bathroom. My wife shouldn't be subject to rude or disparaging remarks because she is helping to keep our child alive. She isn't planning on breastfeeding because she enjoys it (She's never met a woman that breastfeeds and doesn't have sore nipples), but because it is necessary. I really, really, really, don't like the people in that group of 5000.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I don't think breast feeding in public is a big deal.

killuminati
Aug 4, 2006, 02:08 PM
And as far as doing it in public is concerned: people should limit themselves to doing normal, natural things, like smoking, shopping, and eating. Something perverse like breast-feeding should be hidden in shame.

I'm sorry but breast feeding is the most natural thing there is. Humans have been breast feeding their children since the dawn of time. How can you compare it to something like smoking which is a human made product that is not only unnatural. but also unhealthy.

So do you also think that giving birth is perverse and should be hidden in shame?


Also apologies if your post was written sarcastically, it's very hard to tell on the internet.

EDIT: I just had time to read the rest of the thread.....****.

Queso
Aug 4, 2006, 02:10 PM
Also apologies if your post was written sarcastically, it's very hard to tell on the internet.
It's not if you read a lot of jsw's posts ;)

riciad
Aug 4, 2006, 02:27 PM
She isn't planning on breastfeeding because she enjoys it (She's never met a woman that breastfeeds and doesn't have sore nipples), but because it is necessary.

nbs2, believe me, once she gets over the soreness part she'll enjoy it. She'll be rewarded for her perseverance by indescribable feelings of closeness and love.

Lyle
Aug 4, 2006, 02:44 PM
So do you also think that giving birth is perverse and should be hidden in shame?Are there lots of women who give birth in public where you live? I've never been to Canada.

nbs2
Aug 4, 2006, 02:44 PM
nbs2, believe me, once she gets over the soreness part she'll enjoy it. She'll be rewarded for her perseverance by indescribable feelings of closeness and love.
I should clarify - I have a feeling she won't physically enjoy it (as opposed to the emotional closeness), but I may well be wrong.

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 02:46 PM
EDIT: I just had time to read the rest of the thread.....****.
It's OK. I've changed my sig to try to give people a better chance to realize I might be kidding. :p

emw
Aug 4, 2006, 02:49 PM
It's OK. I've changed my sig to try to give people a better chance to realize I might be kidding. :pThat's too bad - I preferred your previous one. As well as the limitless entertainment provided by people misinterpreting your posts. ;)

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 02:51 PM
That's too bad - I preferred your previous one. As well as the limitless entertainment provided by people misinterpreting your posts. ;)
I'll change it back eventually. Besides, even after adding "humor" warnings, people have misinterpreted my posts before. ;)

killuminati
Aug 4, 2006, 02:56 PM
I'll change it back eventually. Besides, even after adding "humor" warnings, people have misinterpreted my posts before. ;)

Haha, great example. I don't remember ever seeing that thread before. LMAO, it's hilarious.

BoyBach
Aug 4, 2006, 03:00 PM
Reminds me of a t-shirt I saw on 'Top of the Pops' a few year back (when people actually watched it ;) ) that read, 'If this offends you, it's past your bedtime!"

ham_man
Aug 4, 2006, 03:08 PM
I could go for some more public displays of breast feeding, myself.
Nothing like seeing a booby in a coffee shop in the morning to make the day a whole lot better... ;)

patrick0brien
Aug 4, 2006, 03:40 PM
So breast-feeding a child is the same as taking a ****? Interesting viewpoint, I suppose.

Edit: After reading your edit, I think I understand your point more clearly: "Don't announce to the world you're about to breast-feed and make a production of it, just do it." I can agree with that.

-emw

Yes, thank you for understanding my point. My composition circuitry is rather blinky today - especially for such a risky analogy.

EDIT: Y'know, to jsw's point - what the heck is it with we 'Staters obsession with breasts?!? For using them as fasion objects and sexual objects, it's ok, for using them for what they were designed for, it's a bit icky?

Tanglewood
Aug 4, 2006, 03:46 PM
I'll change it back eventually. Besides, even after adding "humor" warnings, people have misinterpreted my posts before. ;)

You can't help it that you're the Jonathan Swift of our time.

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 03:54 PM
You can't help it that you're the Jonathan Swift of our time.
Hardly. :p

But... if I were Jonathan Swift, Writer, what initials would I use as a member name here?

Applespider
Aug 4, 2006, 03:57 PM
Nothing like seeing a booby in a coffee shop in the morning to make the day a whole lot better... ;)

That's almost as offensive... :rolleyes: A breastfeeding mother doesn't want to be ogled either ;)

Tanglewood
Aug 4, 2006, 04:02 PM
Hardly. :p

But... if I were Jonathan Swift, Writer, what initials would I use as a member name here?


Nice! You know you could also just do Jonathan SWift

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 04:05 PM
That's almost as offensive... :rolleyes: A breastfeeding mother doesn't want to be ogled either ;)
I think you misunderstood. While I've never seen one in a coffee shop, I've often found that seeing a booby can make my day seem a lot better. I love it when I get to see a pair of them.

http://formymac.com/MR/booby-b.jpg

And, on topic, the magazine cover was no more offensive to me than those fine boobies pictured here.

emw
Aug 4, 2006, 04:10 PM
But I believe Applespider would rather it be a nice pair of tits.

http://www.bavarianbirds.de/what2003/r9951.jpg

jsw
Aug 4, 2006, 04:18 PM
But I believe Applespider would rather it be a nice pair of tits.
You're probably right.

I think it's telling how much we Americans react to a baby nursing when we'd have no problem at all with a picture of someone grabbing a pair of knockers.

http://formymac.com/MR/Knockers.jpg

Leareth
Aug 4, 2006, 04:19 PM
/\
|
|
The above pictures and comments are very funny. That is one of the problems with the english language, multiple meanings for the same word, and all can be correct in the context...

killuminati
Aug 4, 2006, 04:21 PM
This is why I love MR so much.

ham_man
Aug 4, 2006, 04:21 PM
I think you misunderstood.
She is very quick to jump to conclusions, isn't she...? ;)

emw
Aug 4, 2006, 04:25 PM
we'd have no problem at all with a picture of someone grabbing a pair of knockers.Especially that picture, which shows a woman's hand on a pair of knockers which are obviously not naturally that big.

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 04:30 PM
I really fail to see the problem about ladies flaunting their jugs in any situation. A lady should be proud of her tableware.

http://www.ladymarion.co.uk/book/jugs/images/diamondjugs.jpg

skunk
Aug 4, 2006, 04:32 PM
I really fail to see the problem about ladies flaunting their jugs in any situation. A lady should be proud of her tableware.

http://www.ladymarion.co.uk/book/jugs/images/diamondjugs.jpgPhoarrr!

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 04:34 PM
Phoarrr!

I know! Ornate, huh?

Applespider
Aug 4, 2006, 04:34 PM
But I believe Applespider would rather it be a nice pair of tits.

But you already know that I have blue tits (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=129716) in spring

Mac Rules
Aug 4, 2006, 04:36 PM
There is nothing more natural in this world, than a yound baby and mother doing what nature intended.....(not in a weird sense......)

I don't see this as a shameful, pornographic picture; what it shows is something that 99% of all of us have done, so whats the problem? I mean, yeah its perfectly acceptable for people to smoke in the street, doss in shop doors, vomit on pavements on drunken nights out, thats perfectly acceptable...

These people need to take another look at life...

Cheers

BoyBach
Aug 4, 2006, 04:52 PM
Don't forget a nice pair of hooters!

Queso
Aug 4, 2006, 04:57 PM
Nothing better than several pairs of melons rubbing against each other.

http://xeniteia.typepad.com/photos/sorae_poku/melons.jpg

BoyBach
Aug 4, 2006, 04:59 PM
Nothing better than several pairs of melons rubbing against each other.



:eek:

Too many melons!!

Tanglewood
Aug 4, 2006, 05:02 PM
WOW check out them Bazookas!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Bazookas_Korea.jpg/250px-

patrick0brien
Aug 4, 2006, 05:04 PM
I think my head just imploded.

BoyBach
Aug 4, 2006, 05:06 PM
To all of us that have posted the double entendre breast pic's ;)

killuminati
Aug 4, 2006, 05:06 PM
So is this gonna get moved?

This is just like the picture association game but with fun words to go with it

Bern
Aug 4, 2006, 05:18 PM
Chicken anyone??

Tanglewood
Aug 4, 2006, 05:20 PM
So is this gonna get moved?

This is just like the picture association game but with fun words to go with it

I think it is just pointing out the fact that our society has many different names or references for a woman's http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:2wCVN7DEWYGkcM:http://www.delawarebilliards.com/images/rack1.jpg, which we do not feel at all taboo to use in conversation though when the subject of breast-feeding is brought up (not necessarily here) its suddenly very hush hush or even offensive.

BoyBach
Aug 4, 2006, 05:22 PM
I think it is just pointing out the fact that our society has many different names or references for a woman's http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:2wCVN7DEWYGkcM:http://www.delawarebilliards.com/images/rack1.jpg, which we do not feel at all taboo to use in conversation though when the subject of breast-feeding is brought up (not necessarily here) its suddenly very hush hush or even offensive.


Nicely put!

p.s. I can't believe I didn't think of 'a rack' :( :D

Bern
Aug 4, 2006, 05:41 PM
A great set of balloons...

Queso
Aug 4, 2006, 05:43 PM
Nicely put!

p.s. I can't believe I didn't think of 'a rack' :( :D
Oh that's what it is. I thought of "triangle" and just assumed the thread was going downhill :D

What the hell, it's late here....

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 05:43 PM
Oh that's what it is. I thought of "triangle" and immediately assumed the thread was going downhill :D

What the hell, it's late here....

I thought "balls"...:o

Queso
Aug 4, 2006, 05:55 PM
I thought "balls"...:o
Okay :confused:

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 05:57 PM
Okay :confused:

:confused: As was I, and then I realised. :D Bit slow on the uptake, this evening.

killuminati
Aug 4, 2006, 05:59 PM
I'm still confused. Women don't have balls....?

MongoTheGeek
Aug 4, 2006, 06:09 PM
A few thoughts.

1) I sometimes refer to my wife's as earmuffs.

2) What is it with the interwebs and breastfeeding. Fark was nuts with it yesterday from a different article. There was a great picture in it with Lucy Lawless breastfeeding.

3) I don't mind it. I find it a bit arousing actually.

iGary
Aug 4, 2006, 06:10 PM
Does this have anything to do with the Internet tubes?

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 06:19 PM
I'm still confused. Women don't have balls....?

Ok. I saw the picture, and read it as "I think it is just pointing out the fact that our society has many different names or references for a woman's [balls], which..." because the most prominent thing in that picture is in fact the pool balls, and then I thought, "no, hang on, that must mean something else", and then I realised "rack", which is less widely used in the UK than the US.

That is all. I'm sorry to have caused confusion to others as well as myself. :o

Abstract
Aug 4, 2006, 07:21 PM
What's really disturbing is that people are taking you seriously. :confused: :rolleyes: Sarcasm is a dying art.




Quagmire is an American who likes GM cars.

I'm not even being sarcastic. That's actually true.



Also apologies if your post was written sarcastically, it's very hard to tell on the internet.

I think there are a lot of illiterate people here, even if they manage to read and post on this board.

Nothing like seeing a booby in a coffee shop in the morning to make the day a whole lot better... ;)

Forget the optional soy milk in my coffee. I want Option #3. :eek:

smokeyrabbit
Aug 4, 2006, 07:26 PM
Wow, would those sensitive folks be driven blind by this twice daily occurence in my yard?

mpw
Aug 4, 2006, 08:03 PM
My wife was breast feeding our daughter in the pubic library (the children's section) and another lady came over and actually complained to her saying;
"I don't appreciate having to look at your private body parts naked in a public place" my wife was embarrassed but I was furious, my wife was being discreet (because she wanted to not for anybody else's benefit) and was sat in a corner already. I turned and said "You'd better leave now then 'cause I'm getting my cock out next!" ***king cheek!

So she went off and complained to a member of the library staff. I saw the staff member walking over from her desk and thought this is going to get ugly if they start pissing me off over the feeding of our baby.

The staff member came over and offered my wife a cup of tea and a biscuit and found her out a pillow to rest baby on too:) Restored my faith in people a little that did.

Lau
Aug 4, 2006, 08:17 PM
"You'd better leave now then 'cause I'm getting my cock out next!"

Best response ever.

Glad to hear the librarian was a good egg. :)

Edit: DCV, I feel positively ashamed I missed that. :o

dcv
Aug 4, 2006, 08:21 PM
...in the pubic library (the children's section)

:eek: *what* sort of library do you go to?

madog
Aug 4, 2006, 08:39 PM
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I can't really describe my hatred for these puritanical, anal, and otherwise offensive people who scorn natural habits of every human being on the face of the earth.

"Oh my GOD! That baby is EATING! From a BREAST! And in PUBLIC nontheless! BUUUURRNNN HER! BURN THE WITCH!"


And here I am, actually thinking we are progressing as a species.

killuminati
Aug 4, 2006, 11:22 PM
I think there are a lot of illiterate people here, even if they manage to read and post on this board.


I don't get it....are you making fun of me?

Queso
Aug 5, 2006, 02:29 AM
:eek: *what* sort of library do you go to?
He's just got to ensure all his posts are researched :)

balamw
Aug 5, 2006, 03:01 AM
I'm apalled that our government would actually encourage this behavior. http://www.4woman.gov/breastfeeding/index.cfm?page=home
Young children making skin to skin contact with a bare breast! Shocking I tell you!

Where's John Ashcroft when you need him? He'd find a way to keep things under wraps (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1788845.stm).

This is the only pair of cans my kids will ever eat from. Actually both boys breastfed well beyond 12 months and were only completely weaned after 24 mo.

http://www.itsamomsworld.com/images/baby_formula.jpg


B

BoyBach
Aug 5, 2006, 04:40 AM
My wife was breast feeding our daughter in the pubic library (the children's section) and another lady came over and actually complained to her saying;
"I don't appreciate having to look at your private body parts naked in a public place" my wife was embarrassed but I was furious, my wife was being discreet (because she wanted to not for anybody else's benefit) and was sat in a corner already. I turned and said "You'd better leave now then 'cause I'm getting my cock out next!" ***king cheek!


That would have given her something to complain about :eek:

So she went off and complained to a member of the library staff. I saw the staff member walking over from her desk and thought this is going to get ugly if they start pissing me off over the feeding of our baby.

The staff member came over and offered my wife a cup of tea and a biscuit and found her out a pillow to rest baby on too:) Restored my faith in people a little that did.


Well done, the librarian!

mpw
Aug 5, 2006, 05:27 AM
That would have given her something to complain about :eek: ....
Oh I don't know, I've never had any complaints before;)

And yes that was an innocent typo....;)

CorvusCamenarum
Aug 5, 2006, 05:34 AM
I'm surprised no one has touched on this yet, but if memory serves, proper etiquette requires that a woman in public not excuse herself to breastfeed, provided that it's done discreetly, i.e. toss a napkin over the area or something similar so the exposed parts are down to a reasonable minimum. Oh wait, I forgot, we Americans are a bunch of uncultured baboons. :rolleyes:

Like many others here, I don't see the problem. The kid's gotta eat, and it's a lot more natural and better for the baby and mother than a bottle of preprocessed formula. Oh wait, I forgot, natural bad, commercial good.

That being said, here's a funny picture for your amusement:
http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/nice-headlights.jpg

Abstract
Aug 5, 2006, 05:45 AM
I don't get it....are you making fun of me?

I'm taking this as sarcasm as well. Bravo, you did it! ;)

I'm apalled that our government would actually encourage this behavior. http://www.4woman.gov/breastfeeding/index.cfm?page=home
Young children making skin to skin contact with a bare breast! Shocking I tell you!

B


Yes, clearly these women are taking sexual advantage of their children.....forcing children into getting used to sexual acts at a young age. For shame.

gekko513
Aug 5, 2006, 05:45 AM
While we're on the subject... yesterday I noticed something about the new t-shirt I bought the other day.

evilgEEk
Aug 5, 2006, 05:56 AM
I don't understand why people get so upset about a nice bust. I sometimes find myself staring at busts in public places. Generally at museums.

http://www.fileupyours.com/files/3/bust.jpg

asphalt-proof
Aug 5, 2006, 01:01 PM
My wife was breast feeding our daughter in the pubic library (the children's section) and another lady came over and actually complained to her saying;
"I don't appreciate having to look at your private body parts naked in a public place" my wife was embarrassed but I was furious, my wife was being discreet (because she wanted to not for anybody else's benefit) and was sat in a corner already. I turned and said "You'd better leave now then 'cause I'm getting my cock out next!" ***king cheek!

So she went off and complained to a member of the library staff. I saw the staff member walking over from her desk and thought this is going to get ugly if they start pissing me off over the feeding of our baby.

The staff member came over and offered my wife a cup of tea and a biscuit and found her out a pillow to rest baby on too:) Restored my faith in people a little that did.

My wife had a similar experience on an airplane. She had to feed my 4 month old daughter and the woman next to her looked at her disgustedly and asked her if she could do it another time. My wife said sure, "She can wait three hours. But SHE"S A BABY! She'll be hungry and not understand why her MOTHER won't feed her." The funny thing is that these complaints seem to be coming exclusively from women. Why are they so hung up on their bodies natural functioning? I understand why women get hung up on their physical appearance because of media images, expectations, etc. But this (breastfeeding) has nothing to do with body image (usually). The other odd thing is that they are so vocal. Much more vocal than women who complain about media images.
I don't find it disgusting. This is going to sound weird, but I am envious that my wife can do this. To feel that closeness with the baby is something I will never have. Of course, after a few months Jenn is ready to pull the plug on the feedings because she begins to feel like a cow.

savanahrose
Aug 5, 2006, 01:31 PM
Why be offended by it? It is a perfectly natural thing to do as a mammal. That is how they fed their babies in the past. When a woman could not breastfeed their child they found a wet nurse. There is nothing wrong with that picture on the cover. It is just a natural function that us women are lucky enough to be able to do.

hyperpasta
Aug 5, 2006, 01:31 PM
Reminds me of 19th century England when they had to cover up curvy table legs to stop the gentlemen from becoming overexcited.


Wow. I didn't know that. Link?

slooksterPSV
Aug 5, 2006, 01:35 PM
I'm not offended by women nursing their babies, no. This graphic though... I wouldn't want it in the General Public for little kids to see who aren't old enough to understand what is going on. So with this graphic, I'd say they need to remove that magazine and do a different cover. As for seeing a woman sitting on a bench breast feeding, that's fine with me.

Lau
Aug 5, 2006, 01:45 PM
...I wouldn't want it in the General Public for little kids to see who aren't old enough to understand what is going on...

What's wrong with that? Little kids will know what's going on if they've been breastfed or seen siblings or other babies being fed, and even if not, what's wrong with explaining it to them if they ask?

I bet most kids wouldn't even glance at it anyway, because they wouldn't see anything wrong with it.

slooksterPSV
Aug 5, 2006, 02:22 PM
What's wrong with that? Little kids will know what's going on if they've been breastfed or seen siblings or other babies being fed, and even if not, what's wrong with explaining it to them if they ask?

I bet most kids wouldn't even glance at it anyway, because they wouldn't see anything wrong with it.
I dunno, there's something about that picture that I dunno... I mean I'm very open minded, but there's something about that picture that I'm just not sure if I'd want visible.

slooksterPSV
Aug 5, 2006, 02:25 PM
Well I just saw the actual sized version, and it's not as bad as it looked initially, so I wouldn't mind if that were on the shelves.

mpw
Aug 5, 2006, 02:28 PM
I dunno, there's something about that picture that I dunno... I mean I'm very open minded, but there's something about that picture that I'm just not sure if I'd want visible.
What? *tempted to post a picture of my cock just to piss you off*

I can't believe people have a problem with breast on display at all even for commercial gain or just the plain old pleasure of a nice boob, but to have a problem with a breast doing the sole purpose it has evolved for :confused:

What else are you afraid of??

Queso
Aug 5, 2006, 02:29 PM
I wouldn't want it in the General Public for little kids to see who aren't old enough to understand what is going on.
You're making a classic mistake there. Children don't sexualise breasts like adults do. For them a breast is just a body part, like an arm. Any inhibitions they get about breasts later is learned from adults telling them that they shouldn't be seen.

Don't project your own discomfort. Children really don't care.

slooksterPSV
Aug 5, 2006, 02:30 PM
What? *tempted to post a picture of my cock just to piss you off*

I can't believe people have a problem with breast on display at all even for commercial gain or just the plain old pleasure of a nice boob, but to have a problem with a breast doing the sole purpose it has evolved for :confused:

What else are you afraid of??
I'm fine with it. I'm fine with breast feeding in the public and fine with that image. Just kind of an initial response or something.

slooksterPSV
Aug 5, 2006, 02:31 PM
You're making a classic mistake there. Children don't sexualise breasts like adults do. For them a breast is just a body part, like an arm. Any inhibitions they get about breasts later is learned from adults telling them that they shouldn't be seen.
You're absolutely right, and I understand and recognize this. I'm fine with the image (see posts... 123? and 120?)

ReanimationLP
Aug 5, 2006, 02:47 PM
Heh.

Boobies. ^___^

XD

I'm simpleminded. :P

decksnap
Aug 5, 2006, 03:25 PM
Let me just say I have no problem with the boob in public.

But, to play devil's advocate, if she can whip her boob out, shouldn't eveyone be allowed then to walk around with their boobs out?

And if 'lifes most natural acts' are fine for public consumption, shouldn't we all be allowed to have sex in the streets?

:D

brianus
Aug 5, 2006, 03:39 PM
You're making a classic mistake there. Children don't sexualise breasts like adults do. For them a breast is just a body part, like an arm. Any inhibitions they get about breasts later is learned from adults telling them that they shouldn't be seen.

You're also making a classic mistake. Children may not sexualize things, but by the time they're school-aged certain body parts have been "naughty-ized" to a point where they already have the inhibitions even if they don't have the sexual feelings to go along with them (but let's not make another classic mistake and pretend that none of them do). People naturally object to having their children raised one way and being led contrariwise by media images they can't control. Of course the image is natural and not disgusting, but there is a legitimate point of view in which *the publication of it* in mass media can be seen as offensive. There is a difference between offensive and gross. Also, apart from the children thing, there are plenty of folks who would prefer more discretion in mass media, whether it's nonsexual nudity like this or any other kind of public indecency. There's a time and place for everything, but must that time and place always be at the supermarket checkout where everyone can see it? (then again, if this were an exclusively subscription magazine, I don't really see a problem with it -- they should know what they're subscribing to for pete's sake)

This is from the nation that finds the word 'toilet' disgusting and has to ask for the 'bathroom' in a restaurant :rolleyes:


K, you do get the fact that not every difference between American and British culture is some deliberate attempt by us to distance ourselves from you and fulfill your stereotypes? We don't say "bathroom" because we're consciously trying to avoid using the foreignism, "toilet". We say it because that's what it's called in our language. Who knows which came first, our languages have been diverging for 400 years. In any case, for us, the toilet is not the room, it is the actual physical object -- by the same token, we don't say "go to the sink" if we need to wash our hands. Calling the room a toilet isn't merely "disgusting", it's also improper use of the language and sounds strange to our ears. The only alternative in our language to referring to the room would be to refer to the act occurring in the bathroom, (e.g., I need to take a shower, wash my hands, towel off, etc), which, if the object is a toilet, I should hope would be considered at best crude even in "enlightened" Europe.

Queso
Aug 5, 2006, 04:12 PM
brianus

I don't know what I find more offensive. Your tone or your opinions.

Face facts. Europe is enlightened compared to the USA in this. There is a puritanical streak in some Americans that seeks to sexualise and demonise the most natural act a mother can do, and feel the rest of the world should bend to their projecting of it as a morality issue. Why should women hide away whilst doing this? Because someone else feels intimidated by it? Get over yourself. When a mother breast feeds, the last thing on her mind is you or any other of the people who may be offended. Quite rightly, it's the child they are thinking about.

This image was not in some smutty top shelf porn mag. It's on the cover of a babycare magazine. The cover is therefore totally appropriate, and also as discreet as it needs to be. If seeing this undeniably endearing picture whilst in a supermarket queue offends someone I pity them for the misguided social conditioning their parents instilled.

decksnap
Aug 5, 2006, 04:23 PM
brianus
Face facts. Europe is enlightened compared to the USA in this.

That's a great OPINION. Trouble is, everyone's got one, and their seldom the same. No point arguing such moral questions.

Queso
Aug 5, 2006, 04:32 PM
No point arguing such moral questions.
Which is the crux of my OPINION entirely. This isn't a morality question unless the observer projects one onto it.

decksnap
Aug 5, 2006, 04:36 PM
Which is the crux of my OPINION entirely. This isn't a morality question unless the observer projects one onto it.

Yeah- I worded that a little wrong I think. I meant to say in an argument not based around tangible facts, you're not really going to get anywhere.

I say let's all get naked! Except for you ugly people. :D

balamw
Aug 5, 2006, 04:46 PM
I don't understand why people get so upset about a nice bust. I sometimes find myself staring at busts in public places. Generally at museums.

Some can even be found on the sidewalk. Those can be fun to watch too.

http://drugs.goleshet.com/home/341/341-drugs.jpg

B

slooksterPSV
Aug 5, 2006, 04:49 PM
Lol @ balamw

The human body is a beautiful thing. Like I said, I don't mind the pic, its just a matter that should be treated calmly and with an adult attitude - and not something vulgar or that. It's natural and has been forever right?

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 05:05 PM
Somebody get the linch mob I'm against breast feeding in public.

I don't like sitting in a restaurant and having to endure some stranger seated near me breast feeding her baby. I don't like it. It's a private moment between mother and child which researchers have proven to be more than just feeding time to keep the baby from starving and to shut it up. Chemicals are released during this time which are shared between mother and child and form part of the crucial initial bonding between them. If a mother cannot be bothered to savor that moment simply because it's too inconvenient for her to find some place private for her baby, then maybe she should consider getting a pet fish rather than have a child.

People get on board the "it's a natural thing to do" ship, but what about the baby? Sure the mother can exercise her rights as much as she likes but doesn't the child deserve the right to a private moment with it's mother?? Let's face it, this has nothing to do with rights it's all about what's convenient for people who are in a rush to go nowhere quickly.

On the whole "mother's have rights too" deal I'm sure these same advocates of human rights would also gawk with disgust when they see two gay men holding hands or kiss in public... but then I guess they'd also deny that sharing love is natural.

slooksterPSV
Aug 5, 2006, 05:11 PM
...

On the whole "mother's have rights too" deal I'm sure these same advocates of human rights would also gawk with disgust when they see two gay men holding hands or kiss in public... but then I guess they'd also deny that sharing love is natural.

Seeing two gay men holding hands or kiss in public is natural in my opinion. That's for another thread... oh yeah they shut that down a while ago The GayWay - best thread that was on MR *wipes a tear*

Blue Velvet
Aug 5, 2006, 05:13 PM
I don't like it.

Nice how you can simultaneously wrap your own discomfort up in concern for a child's welfare while judging a mother's suitability for child-rearing.

Lau
Aug 5, 2006, 05:15 PM
Sure the mother can exercise her rights as much as she likes but doesn't the child deserve the right to a private moment with it's mother?? Let's face it, this has nothing to do with rights it's all about what's convenient for people who are in a rush to go nowhere quickly.

I'm fairly sure a small baby is quite happy to be fed and look up at its mother wherever it is. Again, the mother and the child are far less bothered by all this than people looking on in outrage like yourself.

On the whole "mother's have rights too" deal I'm sure these same advocates of human rights would also gawk with disgust when they see two gay men holding hands or kiss in public... but then I guess they'd also deny that sharing love is natural.

Yeah, it's a well known fact that those who support breastfeeding and mother's rights can't stand the sight of gay men...:rolleyes: That makes so little sense it may actually be the most bizarre statement ever posted.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 05:20 PM
Here comes the linch mob :rolleyes:

I have the right not to like breast feeding in public. It doesn't make me a monster or anything negative, it's simply my rights. I don't like it not because I find it offensive, but because I believe it's the mother not appreciating the nurturing nature of what she is doing. People these days seem to be such a rut over "their rights" they forget about everybody else's. And it is my right to not want to sit next to someone in a restaurant who is breast feeding.


Yeah, it's a well known fact that those who support breastfeeding and mother's rights can't stand the sight of gay men... That makes so little sense it may actually be the most bizarre statement ever posted.


You make it sound so simplistic lol, actually it makes a lot of sense. Many gay men and women have been in that situation. When in a restaurant once my gay friend asked a breast feeding mother if she'd mind covering herself and was told by her female friend to "F@#* off you poofter!" I could mention many other examples, but that is straying from this topic.

I still stand by my right not to like it.

Blue Velvet
Aug 5, 2006, 05:23 PM
I believe it's the mother not appreciating the nurturing nature of what she is doing.

What qualifies you to make such a judgmental statement? What experience do you have of being a mother?

Lau
Aug 5, 2006, 05:25 PM
Here comes the linch mob :rolleyes:

I have the right not to like breast feeding in public. It doesn't make me a monster or anything negative, it's simply my rights. I don't like it not because I find it offensive, but because I believe it's the mother not appreciating the nurturing nature of what she is doing. People these days seem to be such a rut over "their rights" they forget about everybody else's. And it is my right to not want to sit next to someone in a restaurant who is breast feeding.

Agreed. You are allowed your own opinion, and if you're offended by breast feeding, that's your opinion. I think you're wrong to be, but you're free to be. If you'd said "I don't like seeing breastfeeding because I think it looks gross" that would be a valid opinion.

However, as Blue Velvet says, don't use concern over a mother's connection with her baby to hide your own discomfort. You're not a nursing mother, and may well have a very different opinion if you were. How about you let the mums worry about their own relationship with their baby?

And what on earth was the gay men comment about? (edit: Just saw your reply. So a one off incident makes all breastfeeding mothers and their friends homophobic? Fair enough :rolleyes: )

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 05:31 PM
What qualifies you to make such a judgmental statement? What experience do you have of being a mother?

You're absolutely correct, all women are born with a natural maternal instinct and men are void of any instinct at all. After all we men are just the sperm carrier and nothing more to the mother or the child. Whilst all women are natural born mothers.


The mother also generally enjoys nursing her child (unless her nipples are sore!). This is largely due to a hormone-like substance called oxytocin which is released as a consequence of nursing and holding the infant, the levels being based on the amount of this kind of contact.

Oxytocin also produces uterine contractions during labor, is strongly involved in mother-child bonding after birth and during breastfeeding relationship, it is released during sexual intercourse, and its blood levels rise also in response to touch, warmth, and remembering a positive relationship. It is released in the brain chiefly in response to social contact, but its release is especially pronounced with skin-to-skin contact.

This hormone has been called the "love hormone" or the "cuddle hormone" or the "bonding hormone". It provides a sense of calm and well being and promotes bonding patterns and creates desire for further contact with the individuals inciting its release. It helps the mother and child to bond together. It is involved in those mothering feelings we experience after giving birth to a child. Since it is present during sexual intercourse, it also helps men and women to bond together and form lasting relationships. It makes you want to cuddle, touch, be close, be affectionate towards another human being. Without oxytocin, animals don't recognize or remember their partner though they are able to recognize objects. Autistic children (who often have difficulty with social relationships) have lowered levels of this hormone.

Oxytocin is not the only part of the soup of chemicals produced in our bodies when we cuddle and feel close to our children. Opioids (pleasure hormones) are natural morphine-like chemicals that reduce pain awareness and create feelings of elation. Social contacts, particularly touch - especially between parent and child - induce opioid release, creating good feelings that will enhance bonding.


Admittedly this was written by a male doctor, but you get the general idea I assume??

And no it has nothing to do with my discomfort at all like I already stated.

Lau
Aug 5, 2006, 05:35 PM
<article>

And what bit of that suggests that discreetly feeding her baby in a cafe (or wherever) is in any way a problem?

Blue Velvet
Aug 5, 2006, 05:38 PM
Admittedly this was written by a male doctor, but you get the general idea I assume??

I would argue that feeding a child when it's hungry is entirely the right thing to do, regardless of onlooker's feelings on the matter or whatever societies' mores are.

You have a right not to like it but don't mistake your own squeamishness for an overarching concern for the mother and child, particularly when you imply that breastfeeding in public is tantamount to neglect.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 05:41 PM
I have a funny feeling Bern was not breast-fed.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 05:41 PM
{disclaimer} I'm not trying to be offensive or tick anyone off, I'm just exercising my right to voice to my opinion and debate a topic in an open manner {end disclaimer}


Lau
And what bit of that suggests that discreetly feeding her baby in a cafe (or wherever) is in any way a problem?

I think I already mentioned that at the start.

mpw
Aug 5, 2006, 05:42 PM
If my daughter or son fall and bump their knee often all they need is a cuddle from Mummy or Daddy. Of course any adult can cuddle just as well as me but I have a special bond with my kids. Bern should I take my kids to the bathroom to cuddle them out of sight of the general public for fear that the special bond would be eroded by their onlooking eyes?

Dros
Aug 5, 2006, 05:42 PM
As you say, it is your right to not like to see breastfeeding. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I do question, as others here have done, the reasons you state for the dislike. Mothers have openly and publically breastfed their babies for hundreds of generations. It is only very recently, in a few countries, where this has been frowned upon. While breastfeeding may be a bonding experience, it does not require, as you seem to imagine, a darkened quiet room for this bonding to take place.

And really, what is the fuss about here? I live in a very liberal, hippie town and mothers publically breastfeed all the time. Almost all are private about it, and use a scarf or turn their body to be hidden from all but the most prying of eyes. I have no objections to someone breastfeeding next to me, when everything is pretty much hidden anyway.

Peace
Aug 5, 2006, 05:44 PM
I went on a date once with a nice lady that was breast-feeding her newborn.
We went to an upscale kind of place and during the salad she started to feed her newborn.It kind of startled me for a moment and we talked about it..
A lot of mothers feed their newborns while eating dinner.An example not a fact..

I was fine with it.The restaurant didn't care for it so we left.

I say screw those places..It's all natural..If folks can't handle natural things leave the scene..

ymmv

mpw
Aug 5, 2006, 05:44 PM
...


Lau

I think I already mentioned that at the start.
You've mentioned it as your opinion, then posted an article written by a medical professional, seemingly to support you POV, but it doesn't, at least as far as Lau and I read it.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 05:45 PM
Breast-feeding makes you gay. Just thought I'd say that.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 05:48 PM
....While breastfeeding may be a bonding experience, it does not require, as you seem to imagine, a darkened quiet room for this bonding to take place. ....

Darkened room??? I never mentioned anything about that. Is there anything wrong in just finding a quiet corner. I also don't believe the mother should be relegated to a toilet to feed her baby, I certainly wouldn't eat in a toilet and wouldn't expect a baby to either.

Gosh I wonder how my mother and her mother survived all those years ago when they couldn't breast feed at the local pub, restaurant or shopping mall? There's generations of people out there who weren't breast fed in public and yet somehow society still managed to move forward.

Lau
Aug 5, 2006, 05:50 PM
Breast-feeding makes you gay. Just thought I'd say that.

Now I can't decide whether to support this fact as mothers rights or be revolted by it...

Queso
Aug 5, 2006, 05:51 PM
Breast-feeding makes you gay. Just thought I'd say that.
Breast feeding a child makes a woman gay? :eek:

No wonder birth rates are falling.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 05:54 PM
Gosh I wonder how my mother and her mother survived all those years ago when they couldn't breast feed at the local pub, restaurant or shopping mall? There's generations of people out there who weren't breast fed in public and yet somehow society still managed to move forward.Men managed to move forward. Women were relegated to a "quiet corner", I suppose.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 05:55 PM
Breast feeding a child makes a woman gay? :eek:

No wonder birth rates are falling.It's just Gaia fighting back. ;)

Queso
Aug 5, 2006, 05:57 PM
It's just Gaia fighting back. ;)
Oh I see. It just makes her Gaia.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 05:58 PM
:D Oh I see. It just makes her Gaia.

Applespider
Aug 5, 2006, 06:04 PM
Gosh I wonder how my mother and her mother survived all those years ago when they couldn't breast feed at the local pub, restaurant or shopping mall? There's generations of people out there who weren't breast fed in public and yet somehow society still managed to move forward.

Probably because sadly there were generations of women who were discouraged from breast feeding and told that formula was 'better' for baby. It's really only the past two decades that the 'breast is best' message has come back to the fore and there are higher number of women breastfeeding again - thus necessitating more spaces where they can feed their children.

From what those women who 'spurn' the parent and child room (with nursing chair) in our stores tell us during surveys, they don't all want to be sat in a quiet room while feeding their child. They want to be able to have some refreshment themselves, perhaps feed any other children and socialise with other friends.

There's no doubt that breastfeeding creates a special bond with a child but it doesn't make it any less special if it's not expressed at every mealtime. And while you're entitled to say that it makes you uncomfortable, you're not qualified to say that the woman is any part either a worse mother or a homophobe as a result.

quagmire
Aug 5, 2006, 06:07 PM
I have the right not to like breast feeding in public. It doesn't make me a monster or anything negative, it's simply my rights. I don't like it not because I find it offensive, but because I believe it's the mother not appreciating the nurturing nature of what she is doing. People these days seem to be such a rut over "their rights" they forget about everybody else's. And it is my right to not want to sit next to someone in a restaurant who is breast feeding.

While you're right that it is your right to be offended by it, but it is the womens right to breast feed there kids in public if they want to. Sorry, people aren't going to give up there rights just to please you.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 06:08 PM
There's no doubt that breastfeeding creates a special bond with a child but it doesn't make it any less special if it's not expressed at every mealtime.Lovely choice of words! :D

bousozoku
Aug 5, 2006, 06:11 PM
I'm not concerned and I thought the people who were have been wearing blinders anyway.

In the bookstore the other day, there was another magazine cover where most of the breast was showing but no one was making a big deal about it.

Remember the people from Cincinnati who wanted to clothe the traveling Rodin exhibit (or should I say exhibition)? Why would it concern people who never went to see it anyway?

Let women do what they need to do to take care of their children. If parents are offended by such honesty, perhaps, they shouldn't be parents.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 06:15 PM
While you're right that it is your right to be offended by it, but it is the womens right to breast feed there kids in public if they want to. Sorry, people aren't going to give up there rights just to please you.

It's reciprocal. So should I give up my rights then to please somebody? Let's not be a hypocrite.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 06:18 PM
It's reciprocal. So should I give up my rights then to please somebody? Let's not be a hypocrite.What right do you have to have your particular prejudices pandered to?

Lau
Aug 5, 2006, 06:19 PM
It's reciprocal. So should I give up my rights then to please somebody? Let's not be a hypocrite.

If I said I was offended by seeing a black person at another table whilst eating, should I have my prejudices pandered to?

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 06:20 PM
What right do you have to have your particular prejudices pandered to?

I'm prejudice simply because I don't want to eat a meal across from a woman breast feeding her baby?

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 06:22 PM
I'm prejudice simply because I don't want to eat a meal across from a woman breast feeding her baby?All the baby is doing is eating. Some grown-ups are far less salubrious to watch at their troughs.

I get the impression that either you don't like breasts, or you only like to see them if the owner is potentially or implicitly available to you.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 06:26 PM
If I said I was offended by seeing a black person at another table whilst eating, should I have my prejudices pandered to?

That's an offensive argument to make and you're assuming that I am white.

Brize
Aug 5, 2006, 06:27 PM
Bern: You have a right not to like something and a right to express your opinion, but you don't have a right not to be offended.

People these days seem to be such a rut over "their rights" they forget about everybody else's.

As you've aptly demonstrated.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 06:30 PM
That's an offensive argument to make and you're assuming that I am white.It's simply an extrapolation of your idea of your "right" not to see anything which might offend your sensibilities.

Lau
Aug 5, 2006, 06:31 PM
That's an offensive argument to make and you're assuming that I am white.

I'm assuming nothing. I'm not saying you're saying that. :rolleyes: I'm white, and so if I was to say that, it would seem outdated and bizarre (not to mention hugely offensive) to most decent people. That's how strange your statement about not wanting to see a woman breastfeed seems to me.

And the reason I said it was to make the point that should everyone have their rights upheld, even if they're outdated, bizarre or offensive to most people?

thedude110
Aug 5, 2006, 06:32 PM
It's reciprocal. So should I give up my rights then to please somebody? Let's not be a hypocrite.

Is it reciprocal?

Which is a greater imposition: Your request that the mother go elsewhere, or her request that you ignore her if she bothers you? Her breast feeding will have little impact on you (it's not so hard to look away, right?) -- your request that she go elsewhere would have a huge impact not only on her, but on all mothers.



I'm prejudice simply because I don't want to eat a meal across from a woman breast feeding her baby?

We're all prejudiced -- it's a matter of recognizing those prejudices we hold and then, if we have the courage, trying to work through them.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 06:34 PM
We're all prejudiced -- it's a matter of recognizing those prejudices we hold and then, if we have the courage, trying to work through them.True enough.

hyperpasta
Aug 5, 2006, 06:37 PM
I'm prejudice simply because I don't want to eat a meal across from a woman breast feeding her baby?

You have a point. But the secret is you have to weigh YOUR rights against OTHERS rights. What is a restriction to you is a right to another. If the restriction is less important to you than the right is to the other person, then the other person wins. So now weigh the rights you want against the restrictions of the other person.

RIGHT: Not see breast-feeding in public.
RESTRICTION: Not feed child in public.

versus

RIGHT: Feed child in public.
RESTRICTION: Be forced to see babies being fed in public.

Now which sounds better? Everyone has their opinion, but I'm on the pro-breastfeeding side here.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 06:49 PM
I'm just going to end my input here by saying thank you for this interesting and mature debate (glad it didn't degrade into a childish tit for tat).

Whilst I will continue to defend my rights in this respect (and that is the right to eat my meal in a restaurant without having to endure a mother breast feeding across from me) I certainly appreciate your valid and reasonable point of views to the contrary. At the end of the day it's all about rights as we have all discussed and having rights purports to each respecting the other's so whilst you say I should respect the rights of a nursing mother I say and my rights should be respected also. It's one of those merry-go-round debates I guess where middle ground is yet to be amicably established.

vniow
Aug 5, 2006, 07:07 PM
Whilst I will continue to defend my rights in this respect (and that is the right to eat my meal in a restaurant without having to endure a mother breast feeding across from me)

If we ever find ourselves in a restauraunt together for whatever reason and I want to breast feed my child, you're welcome to move away and eat your meal elswehere so that its not visible to you.

skunk
Aug 5, 2006, 07:10 PM
At the end of the day it's all about rights as we have all discussed and having rights purports to each respecting the other's so whilst you say I should respect the rights of a nursing mother I say and my rights should be respected also. It's one of those merry-go-round debates I guess where middle ground is yet to be amicably established.No, it's not. You don't have a right to have your world bowdlerized. It's my world too.

Brize
Aug 5, 2006, 07:11 PM
Whilst I will continue to defend my rights in this respect (and that is the right to eat my meal in a restaurant without having to endure a mother breast feeding across from me)

As noted previously, you have no such right.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 07:47 PM
If we ever find ourselves in a restauraunt together for whatever reason and I want to breast feed my child, you're welcome to move away and eat your meal elswehere so that its not visible to you.

That won't be a problem because I would have asked the restaurant manager to find a place for you to sit so I wouldn't have to endure it myself. Having said that though I guess the places I eat women have a little more social awareness so it wouldn't be necessary :p I don't frequent McDonalds. If I wanted to sit with breast feeding mothers I'd visit the zoo and eat with the chimpanzees.

Blue Velvet
Aug 5, 2006, 07:51 PM
If I wanted to sit with breast feeding mothers I'd visit the zoo and watch the chimps.

Really nasty. You do have a serious problem.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 08:03 PM
Really nasty. You do have a serious problem.

As opposed to telling somebody they have no rights which assumes I must conform to their way of thinking?

Blue Velvet
Aug 5, 2006, 08:09 PM
As opposed to telling somebody they have no rights which assumes I must conform to their way of thinking?

That has nothing to with your spewing your class-ridden, hateful and misogynistic nonsense across these boards. You speak of having to endure the sight of breastfeeding? Christ, what a burden.

Completely pathetic and one of the most drama-queenish things I've ever had the misfortune to read on these boards.

And comparing breastfeeding mothers to chimps? Do you have any idea how ridiculously haughty and downright ugly that sounds?

And by any chance, have you ever referred to women as 'fish'?

quagmire
Aug 5, 2006, 08:13 PM
That won't be a problem because I would have asked the restaurant manager to find a place for you to sit so I wouldn't have to endure it myself. Having said that though I guess the places I eat women have a little more social awareness so it wouldn't be necessary :p I don't frequent McDonalds. If I wanted to sit with breast feeding mothers I'd visit the zoo and eat with the chimpanzees.

Why does SHE have to move? Why can't you ask to be moved to a different table? You would be a gentlemen by moving to another table and not burdening the women especially if she is breast feeding her baby. But, I guess you think the world revolved around you and everyone has to please you because you have rights.

vniow
Aug 5, 2006, 08:15 PM
Having said that though I guess the places I eat women have a little more social awareness so it wouldn't be necessary :p

I'm willing to bet I have a bit more social awareness than you think and fint it a bit insulting that breast feeding women in public have less than you sem to assume than they do.

As opposed to telling somebody they have no rights which assumes I must conform to their way of thinking?

There's no right in this (or yours) country not to be offended. As from a previous example stated by you, what if I'm offended by a same sex-couple holding hands and being all cutesy like in public? Do I go up to them and tell then it makes me uncomfortable and want them to stop or do I turn away and suck it up because its really not that big of a deal.

If my breast feeding my child in public offens your sensibilities then oh well. There's no law saying I can't and there's no law that forces you to stare at me while I'm doing it. Like I said before, you're welcome to look or move away. :)

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 08:16 PM
That has nothing to with your spewing your class-ridden, hateful and misogynistic nonsense across these boards. You speak of having to endure the sight of breastfeeding? Christ, what a burden.

Completely pathetic and one of the most drama-queenish things I've ever had the misfortune to read on these boards.

And comparing breastfeeding mothers to chimps? Do you have any idea how ridiculously haughty and downright ugly that sounds?

And by any chance, have you ever referred to women as 'fish'?

Fish?? What's that got to do with anything?

Perhaps this thread should have been titled "Nursing A Baby" rather than pose the question whether people find it offensive or not. Don't invite people to give their opinions when reading it can't be handled.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 08:19 PM
Why does SHE have to move? Why can't you ask to be moved to a different table? You would be a gentlemen by moving to another table and not burdening the women especially if she is breast feeding her baby. But, I guess you think the world revolved around you and everyone has to please you because you have rights.

Equal rights works both ways. If women want to be treated equally (as well they should) then why should the man act as a gentleman only when it suits the woman? Can't I have my cake and eat it as well?

vniow
Aug 5, 2006, 08:21 PM
Can't I have my cake and eat it as well?

No.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 08:22 PM
No.

Then why should you?

quagmire
Aug 5, 2006, 08:23 PM
Equal rights works both ways. If women want to be treated equally (as well they should) then why should the man act as a gentleman only when it suits the woman? Can't I have my cake and eat it as well?

Because it is nice? I guess we shouldn't hold doors open, open car doors, etc for women because they can do it for themselves and we are all equal. And people say sarcasm is a dying art. How about men being gentlemen is a dying art?

Blue Velvet
Aug 5, 2006, 08:24 PM
Fish?? What's that got to do with anything?

Perhaps this thread should have been titled "Nursing A Baby" rather than pose the question whether people find it offensive or not. Don't invite people to give their opinions when it reading or hearing can't be handled.


Your failure to recognise your own ugly prejudices and the complete lack of the very social awareness that you claim to possess, is the reason why people are so vehemently opposed to your views.

First, you claimed that your views were supported by some spurious medical evidence and when that was shown to be the sheer nonsense it was, you've reverted to equating breast-feeding mothers to 'chimps', demonstrating your snobbishness and complete immaturity when faced with the potential sight of a nipple.

I'm truly staggered that an adult can hold such views. You speak of rights when what you really mean is needs. Your need to be spared the horrendous vision of a baby being breastfed.

thedude110
Aug 5, 2006, 08:26 PM
Perhaps this thread should have been titled "Nursing A Baby" rather than pose the question whether people find it offensive or not. Don't invite people to give their opinions when reading it can't be handled.

Bern, it's not that you can't be offended. If you're offended, bully for you.

The problem is that your argument is coming across as somewhat ... tactless at times. You have a claim -- that women shouldn't breast feed in public because it's offensive -- but you haven't given any evidence to support that claim outside of your own ego (that it's offensive to you). And that's making you resort to saying things you don't mean to say (I hope) -- like the zoo comment. You're reaching for a reason to support your opinion, but short of facts, you're left trying to either be funny or to make some sort of emotional appeal.

If you've got real reasons to support your claim that breast feeding in public is socially offensive/socially damaging, by all means, let's talk about it. But if the conversation is going to continue to orbit around "my opinion is my opinion and I don't care if I'm souding a bit sexist" then we're worse than not going anywhere.

vniow
Aug 5, 2006, 08:28 PM
Then why should you?

I'm not the one eating, my kid is. ;) My point stands, there's no law or regulation that prevents me from nursing in public. Until there is then I will proceed to do so at my discretion and as long as I'm not making a display of it, don't you dare come up to be and tell me you find it offensive and should put it away for the greater public awareness of the rest of society.

Bern
Aug 5, 2006, 08:41 PM
Bern, it's not that you can't be offended. If you're offended, bully for you.

The problem is that your argument is coming across as somewhat ... tactless at times. You have a claim -- that women shouldn't breast feed in public because it's offensive -- but you haven't given any evidence to support that claim outside of your own ego (that it's offensive to you). And that's making you resort to saying things you don't mean to say (I hope) -- like the zoo comment. You're reaching for a reason to support your opinion, but short of facts, you're left trying to either be funny or to make some sort of emotional appeal.

If you've got real reasons to support your claim that breast feeding in public is socially damaging, by all means, let's talk about it. But if the conversation is going to continue to orbit around "my opinion is my opinion and I don't care if I'm souding a bit sexist" then we're worse than not going anywhere.

Well the question is "Does a nursing baby offend you?

My reply is "yes it does". How can it be that my finding it offensive is egotistical yet the responses to my initial reply are not? Is telling somebody they have no right to feel the way they do not egotistical?

Yes I do believe that breast feeding a child is a nurturing moment between mother and child and a moment for both of them enjoy and celebrate with one another not done in a public arena simply because it's not convenient for the mother. And yes I do find it unsavory to be seated at a restaurant when somebody I don't even know starts to feed her baby in front of me without consideration of the situation or the people around her. Some people simply do not want to be placed in that scenario. It doesn't mean they find it ugly or awful it just may be something that makes them uncomfortable.

It's just as unkind and thoughtless to pose a question and when someone disagrees with the current status quo to shoot them down and tell them they are wrong and have no rights to their opinion, in that situation you may expect that person to jump to the defensive.

I did say I appreciated people's comments and found their points of view to be somewhat valid, but to that the response was bigoted and self righteous just as these people claim me to be.

I stand by my point of view (as do many people who may not be as vocal as I) and will not venture further into this discussion here as my said narrow mindedness is being met by the same mind set as those who claim mine to be.

The world may be a smaller place, but cultural differences remain the same. It is those people who impose their cultural beliefs on others that create the havoc we see today. Some people just never learn.

Blue Velvet
Aug 5, 2006, 08:52 PM
Well the question is "Does a nursing baby offend you?

My reply is "yes it does". How can it be that my finding it offensive is egotistical yet the responses to my initial reply are not?


Because you compared breastfeeding mothers to chimps and berated them for having no social awareness as well as stating that mothers were doing it purely for their convenience, as if they have to go out of their way to spare your tender feelings... and now you're playing the wounded card.

How you fail to see the absurdity of this is completely staggering.

gekko513
Aug 5, 2006, 09:53 PM
Here comes the linch mob :rolleyes:

I have the right not to like breast feeding in public. It doesn't make me a monster or anything negative, it's simply my rights. I don't like it not because I find it offensive, but because I believe it's the mother not appreciating the nurturing nature of what she is doing. People these days seem to be such a rut over "their rights" they forget about everybody else's. And it is my right to not want to sit next to someone in a restaurant who is breast feeding.
I'm not entirely sure whether you mean it's your right to not want to sit next to someone breast feeding, as in you'll get up and leave, or whether you think the woman shouldn't breast feed there.

I'm assuming you mean the latter.

Sure you have the right to be offended by something, but that doesn't mean you have the right to stop that something from happening if it's a perfectly natural activity.

What if I'm offended by people having tattoos, should I be able to force them to cover them up while I'm around them? What if I'm offended by children playing with toy guns because I think it trivialises violence, should I be able to tell my neighbours kids to stop doing it? What if I'm offended by women in public not covering up their hair, should I be able to force a jilbab on every woman in my vicinity?

asphalt-proof
Aug 5, 2006, 09:55 PM
Somebody get the linch mob I'm against breast feeding in public.

I don't like sitting in a restaurant and having to endure some stranger seated near me breast feeding her baby. I don't like it. It's a private moment between mother and child which researchers have proven to be more than just feeding time to keep the baby from starving and to shut it up. Chemicals are released during this time which are shared between mother and child and form part of the crucial initial bonding between them. If a mother cannot be bothered to savor that moment simply because it's too inconvenient for her to find some place private for her baby, then maybe she should consider getting a pet fish rather than have a child.

People get on board the "it's a natural thing to do" ship, but what about the baby? Sure the mother can exercise her rights as much as she likes but doesn't the child deserve the right to a private moment with it's mother?? Let's face it, this has nothing to do with rights it's all about what's convenient for people who are in a rush to go nowhere quickly.

On the whole "mother's have rights too" deal I'm sure these same advocates of human rights would also gawk with disgust when they see two gay men holding hands or kiss in public... but then I guess they'd also deny that sharing love is natural.

Let's see... that baby is doing exactly what you are doing... EATING!
This bond you speak of that occurs when a mother feeds her child... it happens 4-5 times a day. You might want to cut the woman a bit of slack. She can 'cherish' this time anytime she wants to. The fact is, the mother is probably not feeding the baby to get the 'cherished' time. The baby, quite frankly, doesn't care when or where they get fed, so long as they get their needs met.

This is YOUR problem. YOUR hangup. Get over YOUR self. Leave the mothers and babies alone.

aquajet
Aug 5, 2006, 10:30 PM
Equal rights works both ways. If women want to be treated equally (as well they should) then why should the man act as a gentleman only when it suits the woman? Can't I have my cake and eat it as well?

Once again, as is all too often, it's all about "me". While you're tearing into that bloody steak of yours, did you ever consider that the utterly dependent and helpless infant sitting across from you is also hungry? Honestly, I have to question whether or not you have, considering some of the truly appalling statements you've made. You continue to drone on and on about your "rights" versus the mother's rights, yet you conveniently disregard the child's.

BTW, feel free to show us where it says you have the right to not be offended.

aquajet
Aug 5, 2006, 10:46 PM
Breast-feeding makes you gay.

Thanks for answering perhaps the most perplexing question in my life. :D

asphalt-proof
Aug 7, 2006, 06:08 PM
i've been on both sides of the offensive question. when i was younger i saw a woman breast feeding and was uncomfortable with it. but i realized this was silly, the woman wasnt being sexual she was FEEDING her baby. i figured the problem was mine. later i became a mom and due to nutritional benefits and cost i chose to breast feed. i loved the bonding time but when we were out and baby became hungry it became a problem to find a quiet spot and "bond". most times the child is more interested in eating than "bonding". i got tired of being shut up in a little room by myself "feeding the baby". there is nothing wrong with eating. i try to be discreet but eating is eating. the problem lies with the offended. i am offended by women who wear next to nothing, breasts hanging out and others wouldnt think of saying, "could you put those away. Do you have to do that here?" why does a child have to starve or a mother hide in order to feed a baby? sexual is ok but nutritional is porn? weird.

hulugu
Aug 7, 2006, 06:59 PM
I'm prejudice simply because I don't want to eat a meal across from a woman breast feeding her baby?

Well, if she's at your table you could politely ask her to stop, you could also choose another table, read a newspaper, stack napkin holders into a wall.

Your right to not be offended has little weight because it conflicts so easily with others' rights and because you can choose not to be offended or you can remove yourself from the situation.

Your right to wave your arms only extends to my nose.

Well the question is "Does a nursing baby offend you?

My reply is "yes it does". How can it be that my finding it offensive is egotistical yet the responses to my initial reply are not? Is telling somebody they have no right to feel the way they do not egotistical?

You have every right to go: "ewwww." However, you don't have the right to demand the woman across from you stop because she's infringing upon your rights. You don't have the right not to be offended, but you have every right to have an opinion and a physical reaction.

Think of a vegetarian who sits down at a deli. Across from her a man eats a steak sandwhich, a very rare steak sandwhich. Now her reaction can be disgust, but she cannot demand that the man stop eating his rare steak sandwhich, or cover his mouth, because her rights don't extend that far. He can be polite and wrap his sandwhich to go, or he can leave, but he doesn't have to. He can sit and merrily chomp on his sandwhich with gobs of A1 and fries to his heart's content.

Do you really want people to be able to demand others change simply to protect them from their fears and their hangups?

clayj
Aug 7, 2006, 07:27 PM
Think of a vegetarian who sits down at a deli. Across from her a man eats a steak sandwhich, a very rare steak sandwhich. Now her reaction can be disgust, but she cannot demand that the man stop eating his rare steak sandwhich, or cover his mouth, because her rights don't extend that far. He can be polite and wrap his sandwhich to go, or he can leave, but he doesn't have to. He can sit and merrily chomp on his sandwhich with gobs of A1 and fries to his heart's content.Just playing devil's advocate here, but there is no law against eating meat.

On the other hand, in most jurisdictions (in the US, anyway), there are indecent exposure laws that make it illegal for a woman to expose her breasts (usually, this means that the nipple is exposed to the air). So, the question is, do said laws make an exception for when a woman is breast-feeding?

Personally, I have nothing against women breast-feeding their children, but there are places where I would not consider it appropriate (in church, for example)... and they should all realize that some people may stare. It's human nature.

balamw
Aug 7, 2006, 07:39 PM
On the other hand, in most jurisdictions (in the US, anyway), there are indecent exposure laws that make it illegal for a woman to expose her breasts (usually, this means that the nipple is exposed to the air). So, the question is, do said laws make an exception for when a woman is breast-feeding?

If said woman's nipple is exposed while breast feeding, she (or the baby) ain't doing it right. Think of the kid as a large pastie. ;)

B

skunk
Aug 7, 2006, 07:42 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but there is no law against eating meat.

On the other hand, in most jurisdictions (in the US, anyway), there are indecent exposure laws that make it illegal for a woman to expose her breasts (usually, this means that the nipple is exposed to the air). So, the question is, do said laws make an exception for when a woman is breast-feeding?By definition, if a woman is breast-feeding, her nipple is not exposed, so that's a pretty weak argument.

Personally, I have nothing against women breast-feeding their childrenThat's good to hear...
but there are places where I would not consider it appropriate (in church, for example)... Why not in church? Should the sermon be missed because an infant wants a feed?
and they should all realize that some people may stare. It's human nature.It's poor manners, at the very least, if not prurience.

marymac
Aug 7, 2006, 07:51 PM
:confused: I don't see the big deal with this being on the cover of a magazine, its not graphic in any sort of way, just natural occurrence. However, I don't like it when people do this in public, something like the rest room, or some more private area is a more appropriate place.

I thought it was beautiful. Our own mind is the judge of what offends and what does not. External objects have some affect - but we choose how we feel.

QuantumLo0p
Aug 7, 2006, 07:57 PM
It's rude to expell gases, liquids and solids from your body while in public.

The common lame excuse I hear from the pro-public-baby-tit-sucking lobby is that "It's completely natural so I have every right."

No. You don't.

Taking a big, stinky dump is a natural function too but I can't (won't) do it in public.
So is picking your nose.
So is taking a piss.
So is carressing your rhoids.
So is popping zits.
So is lancing tumors.
So is changing the dressing on an open, festering wound.
So is changing a tampon.
So is sex.
So is shaving, haircuting and bikini waxing.
So is trying new shoes without wearing socks.
So on, and so on, and so on...

The next time I see a mother nursing her baby in public, I'm going to stand about arm's length away, break the seal and unleash the biggest, juiciest, nastiest, stinky, unnatural fart I can manage to expell from my arse just because I feel "It's natural", because I feel "It's a beautiful thing" and because "It's my right". It's all up to the beholder, right? Yeah, right buddy.

Changing a baby diaper is completely natural yet there is now baby changing tables in the majority of every restroom in the country.

I suppose common sense eludes some people.

Nuff said.

Lau
Aug 7, 2006, 08:03 PM
It's rude to expell gases, liquids and solids from your body while in public.

Maybe you should stop breathing then.

emw
Aug 7, 2006, 08:05 PM
The common lame excuse I hear from the pro-public-baby-tit-sucking lobby is that "It's completely natural so I have every right."

No. You don't.Actually, in many states you do have the right to breast-feed in public.

And about you "unleashing" something in your pants whilst being next to a breast feeding woman - feel free. Being the father of 2 children, I will guarantee it will be far from the worst thing she smells during the day, and it will provide her with a source of amusement as she ridicules you with her friends.

Your attitude that breast-feeding is as disgusting as taking a **** is amazing. I'd be willing to bet that you wouldn't be protesting some lovely young lady walking around with her breasts exposed - as long as she isn't breast-feeding. :rolleyes:

skunk
Aug 7, 2006, 08:06 PM
It's rude to expell gases, liquids and solids from your body while in public.And I suppose you never do. Anyway, we are talking about ingesting, not expelling, so I fail to see the relevance.

The common lame excuse I hear from the pro-public-baby-tit-sucking lobby is that "It's completely natural so I have every right.""pro-public-baby-tit-sucking"? What a confusion of prejudices that charming phrase betrays!

Taking a big, stinky dump is a natural function too but I can't (won't) do it in public.Comparing discreet breast-feeding with taking a dump, now? You have much to learn about bodily functions.

The next time I see a young mother nursing her baby in public, I'm going to stand about arm's length away, break the seal and unleash the biggest, juiciest, nastiest, stinky, unnatural fart I can manage to expell from my arse just because I feel "It's natural", because I feel "It's a beautiful thing" and because "It's my right".Both insensitive and aggressive. You should perhaps learn to manage your anger.

Nuff said.

skunk
Aug 7, 2006, 08:11 PM
Maybe you should stop breathing then.I like your thinking. :)

nbs2
Aug 7, 2006, 08:12 PM
The next time I see a young mother nursing her baby in public, I'm going to stand about arm's length away, break the seal and unleash the biggest, juiciest, nastiest, stinky, unnatural fart I can manage to expell from my arse just because I feel "It's natural", because I feel "It's a beautiful thing" and because "It's my right".
And she has no right to make you stop. The offense she takes doesn't impede on your right to pass gas. That being said, depending on your location at the moment, she (or her husband) may be able to pull off a self-defense argument for beating on you if she (or he) can pull off a claim that they thought you were going to touch her.

balamw
Aug 7, 2006, 08:13 PM
And about you "unleashing" something in your pants whilst being next to a breast feeding woman - feel free. Being the father of 2 children, I will guarantee it will be far from the worst thing she smells during the day, and it will provide her with a source of amusement as she ridicules you with her friends.

LOL. Not to mention that the comment about "breaking the seal" gives me the impression he's (I have to assume QuantumLo0p is a he) never really paid attention to anyone breastfeeding. It would take an act of God for either of my kids to unlatch if their intent was to eat.

Getting between an infant and their food source is just asking for a beating (from the kid that is).

B

skunk
Aug 7, 2006, 08:14 PM
LOL. Not to mention that the comment about "breaking the seal" gives me the impression he's (I have to assume QuantumLo0p is a he) never really paid attention to anyone breastfeeding. It would take an act of God for either of my kids to unlatch if their intent was to eat.

Getting between an infant and their food source is just asking for a beating (from the kid that is).FWIW, which isn't much, I think he was talking figuratively of uncorking his butt. He has a way with words.

Lau
Aug 7, 2006, 08:16 PM
FWIW, which isn't much, I think he was talking figuratively of uncorking his butt. He has a way with words.

I worry more about his obvious digestive problems.

Oh no, hang on, I don't. :p

clayj
Aug 7, 2006, 08:16 PM
By definition, if a woman is breast-feeding, her nipple is not exposed, so that's a pretty weak argument.The nipple is exposed to the air momentarily, between unhitching her bra and placing the infant in the feeding position, isn't it?

But here's a better question: If it's OK for a woman to breast-feed her child while in public, what if the feeder is not a child, but an adult? Would it be legal for a man to service his wife's breasts orally while in public? Or does the law make that distinction?

aquajet
Aug 7, 2006, 08:19 PM
The common lame excuse I hear from the pro-public-baby-tit-sucking lobby is that "It's completely natural so I have every right."

No. You don't.

I see you, too, conveniently disregard my previous point.

Taking a big, stinky dump is a natural function too but I can't (won't) do it in public.
So is picking your nose.
So is taking a piss.
So is carressing your rhoids.
So is popping zits.
So is lancing tumors.
So is changing the dressing on an open, festering wound.
So is changing a tampon.
So is sex.
So is shaving, haircuting and bikini waxing.
So is trying new shoes without wearing socks.
So on, and so on, and so on...

These are all red herrings and you know it.

The next time I see a mother nursing her baby in public, I'm going to stand about arm's length away, break the seal and unleash the biggest, juiciest, nastiest, stinky, unnatural fart I can manage to expell from my arse just because I feel "It's natural", because I feel "It's a beautiful thing" and because "It's my right". It's all up to the beholder, right? Yeah, right buddy.

Delightful.

I suppose common sense eludes some people.

Nuff said.

Indeed. :rolleyes:

skunk
Aug 7, 2006, 08:19 PM
The nipple is exposed to the air momentarily, between unhitching her bra and placing the infant in the feeding position, isn't it?Just how closely do you have to be watching to spot it?

But here's a better question: If it's OK for a woman to breast-feed her child while in public, what if the feeder is not a child, but an adult? Would it be legal for a man to service his wife's breasts orally while in public? Or does the law make that distinction?Now, that wouldn't really qualify as feeding, would it? Don't be a silly Devil's Advocate.

Lau
Aug 7, 2006, 08:21 PM
The nipple is exposed to the air momentarily, between unhitching her bra and placing the infant in the feeding position, isn't it?

Not only is it brief, but most women have special feeding bras and/or tops that offer a lot of coverage, unless someone's really looking for it. :rolleyes:

But here's a better question: If it's OK for a woman to breast-feed her child while in public, what if the feeder is not a child, but an adult? Would it be legal for a man to service his wife's breasts orally while in public? Or does the law make that distinction?

Well, in that the kid's feeding in a non-sexual way, and the guys sucking his wife's breasts in an entirely sexual way, I think there's a distinction, law or not...


Edit: Okay, looks like skunk said the same thing, only faster. :p

skunk
Aug 7, 2006, 08:21 PM
Indeed. :rolleyes:A lot of late editing going on...

clayj
Aug 7, 2006, 08:25 PM
Now, that wouldn't really qualify as feeding, would it? Don't be a silly Devil's Advocate.If the woman is lactating, it would.

So, I pose the question: Is it OK for a full-grown man (i.e., not a child) to breast-feed from a lactating woman (his wife, or any other woman) in public? If not, why not?

jsw
Aug 7, 2006, 08:34 PM
Of course it's not OK. Nor is it OK for some ten year old to do it. Neither the ten year old or the man is dependent upon the milk, and that dependency is a large part of why it's acceptable to nurse infants.

On a somewhat related note, to no poster in particular, it always amuses me that the crowd who tends to not like public breast feeding is also the crowd who tends to protest the availability of sex ed, birth control, and the day after pill for youth.

thedude110
Aug 7, 2006, 08:35 PM
If the woman is lactating, it would.

So, I pose the question: Is it OK for a full-grown man (i.e., not a child) to breast-feed from a lactating woman (his wife, or any other woman) in public? If not, why not?

I think this would be considered a fetish. Or a ridiculous analogy. I'm not sure which.

asphalt-proof gives a very good answer earlier in the thread:

i am offended by women who wear next to nothing, breasts hanging out and others wouldnt think of saying, "could you put those away. Do you have to do that here?" why does a child have to starve or a mother hide in order to feed a baby? sexual is ok but nutritional is porn? weird.

Lau
Aug 7, 2006, 08:40 PM
If the woman is lactating, it would.

So, I pose the question: Is it OK for a full-grown man (i.e., not a child) to breast-feed from a lactating woman (his wife, or any other woman) in public? If not, why not?

Well, the kid's getting nutrition from feeding, and the adult's just doing it for the kicks. I doubt any grown men need to survive off breast milk. Comparing what a one year old does in to public to an adult is ridiculous.

I have a feeling that a few people can't get over the fact that women's breasts aren't just used for sex...

aquajet
Aug 7, 2006, 08:43 PM
A lot of late editing going on...

It's been a long day. I must have missed something. Or many things... :)

kretzy
Aug 7, 2006, 08:44 PM
I have a feeling that a few people can't get over the fact that women's breasts aren't just used for sex...
That must be the underlying problem because it is completely beyond my comprehension how someone could find breast-feeding offensive. I just don't get it.

clayj
Aug 7, 2006, 08:51 PM
Well, the kid's getting nutrition from feeding, and the adult's just doing it for the kicks. I doubt any grown men need to survive off breast milk. Comparing what a one year old does in to public to an adult is ridiculous.

I have a feeling that a few people can't get over the fact that women's breasts aren't just used for sex...The reason I asked the question I did is because the wording of laws often contains loopholes that allow behavior to occur that was not intended.

For example, say you start with an indecent exposure law:

"It is illegal for a woman to expose one or both breasts (defined as nipples out or being directly touched by another person) while in a 'public' place."

And then someone says, Well, what about breast-feeding? Some debate, then amended wording:

"It is illegal... etc., etc., UNLESS she is breast-feeding."

Then someone else asks: Well, how old is the feeder allowed to be? We don't want adults breast-feeding adults in public. Some more debate, then:

"It is illegal... etc., etc., UNLESS she is breast-feeding a child under the age of 4."

OK... what if it's not her child? What if her child has some medical condition that necessitates breast-feeding beyond that age? And so on, and so on. These sorts of questions can get really tricky.

Like I said, it doesn't offend me. But I can see where some people might object to it, and where other people (myself included) would appreciate a certain level of discretion when it comes to appropriateness of time and place to do it.

QuantumLo0p
Aug 7, 2006, 08:53 PM
I suppose I can't expect rational thinking from you all when situational ethics provide anyone with the ability to do whatever they please without negative reaction. Really not much different than other flawed ideologies such as affirmative action and hate crimes.

If you disagree, and you feel qualified, then maybe you should publish a reference guide on the sublject and how Emily Post "doesn't get it".

Don't get upset because I have a different view. It's my right and yours. However, it usually seems that a certain group of people always preach open mindedness and tolerance when, in reality, they are closed minded and intolerant. They say they respect other views but only when it is in sync with their own.

I can't help but think that you don't have children yourselves. That you're idealistic and inexperienced. If you are older and have children I find it troubling that you think the way you do, without regard for absolutes. Fresh out of school perhaps? Red diaper doper baby, maybe? Maybe you should check out the Digg forums. You sound as if you you would fit right in with the "Digg Thought Police". Mac Rumors appears to be just another site where the users, instead of the news, is paramount. Disappointing, indeed.

"learning is what happens after you gradute from school and experience life"

jsw
Aug 7, 2006, 08:53 PM
...other people (myself included) would appreciate a certain level of discretion when it comes to appropriateness of time and place to do it.
I think we all agree there... including those who do it.

I haven't seen a lot of militant in-your-face breastfeeders recently. ;)

pivo6
Aug 7, 2006, 09:01 PM
I can't ****ing believe that this thread is over 9 pages long.

FWIW, my wife breast fed all three of my daughters, and yes sometimes in public. I really don't know how anyone would be offended. She didn't take her bra and shirt off to feed my kids. She discreetly covered a shoulder and breast with a blanket, and then she lifted her shirt to nurse. The baby's head, and the breast are hidden under the blanket. I imagine most women do it this way.

For those who are offended, I really don't know what to say to you.

jsw
Aug 7, 2006, 09:09 PM
I can't ****ing believe that this thread is over 9 pages long.I agree. And, after re-reading it, I've come to two conclusions: Nothing new has been said for some time. This is upsetting people to the extent that I soon expect unveiled insults to start flying.So... I'm closing it for at least a day, maybe more, maybe forever, just to ensure that it cools down.