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MacRumors
Aug 11, 2006, 08:56 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Reghardware claims (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/08/11/apple_macbook_to_get_merom/) cites a Chinese language report that Apple is readying both of its laptop models for Core 2 Duo "Merom" CPU's, due next month. There had been some Page 2 rumors that Apple would update the MacBook pro to include Merom at WWDC which failed to materialize, but this is the first report that has indicated that Apple would also move its more consumer-oriented laptop model to Core 2 Duo that quickly. AppleInsider has previously suggested (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/07/20060711225142.shtml) that the MacBook would remain a Core Duo "Yonah" CPU for the time being.

While no hard insider information exists pointing to the specs of the new machines, currently Merom tops out at 2.33 GHz, so it is not unreasonable to believe that Apple will use the 2.33 GHz chip in its MacBook Pro, and slightly slower speeds in its MacBooks. Also of note, Merom being a Core 2 Duo chip has architectural advances over Core Duo ("Yonah") such as 64-bit support and a 4 MB L2 Cache in higher end models.

longofest
Aug 11, 2006, 08:57 AM
In other words, G5 PowerBooks next tuesday ;)

socamx
Aug 11, 2006, 09:01 AM
Why would they give the Macbook that but leave the iMac with the original Core Duo? Doesn't make sense. I would think all three would get it or just the Macbook Pro.

Unorthodox
Aug 11, 2006, 09:02 AM
Booooooo! Boooooo! :mad:
I want my MBP now! :mad:
Next month! :mad:

So does that mean MacWorld Paris?

Why would they give the Macbook that but leave the iMac with the original Core Duo? Doesn't make sense. I would think all three would get it or just the Macbook Pro.
Actually I think they should keep the mini and MB with the older processors; but lower the price.
Remember the Pro in MacBook Pro stands for PRO! So it should be better.


I need coffeeeeee......

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 09:03 AM
This is good news for future Macbook owners. I'm interested in when the iMac will get Conroe. A friend of mine is switching from Windows and wants the iMac but is waiting for Conroe in the iMac. I only hope they go with the desktop processor in the iMac and not Merom since he's not interested in the mobile processor in his desktop.

Why would they give the Macbook that but leave the iMac with the original Core Duo? Doesn't make sense. I would think all three would get it or just the Macbook Pro.

Well, hopefully the iMac will be updated sooner than the portables. Conroe is out and available in quantities now where as Merom won't be as available in quantities until the end of this month.

bep207
Aug 11, 2006, 09:04 AM
its always next tuesday isnt it?

here is to getting up early on tuesday morning, dragging my ass to the computer, and going to store.apple.com to be disappointed by the lack of the promise to be back within the hour.

SheriffParker
Aug 11, 2006, 09:04 AM
It would be cool for them to keep the yonah in the low-end MacBook. That way with the price drop they could get back to a $999 entry-level notebook.

Merom definitely in the Black Macbook though, if this is true.

Great News! Still hoping for a case redesign in the MBP for mine. :)

BeefUK
Aug 11, 2006, 09:05 AM
Why would they give the Macbook that but leave the iMac with the original Core Duo? Doesn't make sense. I would think all three would get it or just the Macbook Pro.

This is probably because merom is aimed at mainly at laptops, however there's no reason by they shouldn't put it in an iMac.

I'm not one to believe all the rumours, however I really hope this one is true. Although i'm not holding my breath.

jcampa
Aug 11, 2006, 09:05 AM
I hope next month means the first 10 days of september, I'll be in NYC and I want to buy a lot of things besides a new MBP!!

Because if they were preparing the MBP for the WWDC, it means they're almost ready, don't you think? Ready in terms of volume.

SteveRichardson
Aug 11, 2006, 09:05 AM
I. want. it. now.

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 09:06 AM
Merom definitely in the Black Macbook though, if this is true.



I hope so. At least then one could justify the price difference!

Willis
Aug 11, 2006, 09:06 AM
So does that mean MacWorld Paris?

It sure does. Quite exciting really. I think all consumer products will get Core 2 Duo (merom + conroe) in September. Although, seeing as Merom is socket compatable with the current line up, I dont think we will see a Conroe in the iMac.

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 09:08 AM
It sure does. Quite exciting really. I think all consumer products will get Core 2 Duo (merom + conroe) in September. Although, seeing as Merom is socket compatable with the current line up, I dont think we will see a Conroe in the iMac.

I tend to agree that they may use Merom in the iMac but since they put Woodcrest in the Mac Pros it gives me hope that they won't use Merom in the iMac and just use it in the portable line where they really belong.

mingisback
Aug 11, 2006, 09:08 AM
This is good news for future Macbook owners. I'm interested in when the iMac will get Conroe. A friend of mine is switching from Windows and wants the iMac but is waiting for Conroe in the iMac. I only hope they go with the desktop processor in the iMac and not Merom since he's not interested in the mobile processor in his desktop.



Well, hopefully the iMac will be updated sooner than the portables. Conroe is out and available in quantities now where as Merom won't be as available in quantities until the end of this month.

I'm pretty sure Conroe has no performance gains over Merom. Why is your friend opposed to Merom in a desktop? Merom is supposed to run cooler correct?

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 09:12 AM
I'm pretty sure Conroe has no performance gains over Merom. Why is your friend opposed to Merom in a desktop? Merom is supposed to run cooler correct?Conroe has a much faster FSB, more cache, and ramps up much faster in clock speed.

Merom and Yonah are replacements for Pentium-M. While Conroe is the replacement for the Pentium D. Conroe runs much hotter but not as hot as the old G5's. 45 C at full load for Conroe and 75 C for the 970FX.

And if you're worried about wattage...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-shootout_11.html

Shasta
Aug 11, 2006, 09:16 AM
Damn, and I just got my new MacBook yesterday

oh well, I caught the last round of iBook updates last year, and that left me on the bleeding edge for several months. I'll see what it looks like in second place for a while.

Plus if my MacBook gets lonely and depressed he can talk to my 1st gen PowerMac G5

(God I need more RAM for the MacBook)

Shasta

ChickenSwartz
Aug 11, 2006, 09:20 AM
It would be cool for them to keep the yonah in the low-end MacBook. That way with the price drop they could get back to a $999 entry-level notebook.

Merom definitely in the Black Macbook though, if this is true.

Great News! Still hoping for a case redesign in the MBP for mine. :)

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that Yonah and Merom were being priced identically (at same clock speed) by Intel.

Porscheboy16
Aug 11, 2006, 09:24 AM
Crap! My MacBook should be here on Monday. Is there anyway to return an online order?

teme
Aug 11, 2006, 09:24 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that Yonah and Merom were being priced identically (at same clock speed) by Intel.

Yes, but after the Merom release the prices of Yonah will be cheaper.

spicyapple
Aug 11, 2006, 09:25 AM
Quad Xeons in the MacBook Pro, pretty please. After all, it is Apple's professional notebook line.

ChickenSwartz
Aug 11, 2006, 09:26 AM
It sure does. Quite exciting really. I think all consumer products will get Core 2 Duo (merom + conroe) in September. Although, seeing as Merom is socket compatable with the current line up, I dont think we will see a Conroe in the iMac.

It seems to me that waiting until Paris might be too long. Plus, Merom is just marginally better than Yonah so that's not much of a show for a Keynote, unless there is a enclosure redesign....:D . Well, Conroe in iMacs would be something to show since it is considerably faster than Yonah.

If no redesign, I see it being released...umm...Next Tuesday.

This would leave Paris open for new iPods

joost538
Aug 11, 2006, 09:26 AM
Makes no sense to put these in Macbook so soon. Macbook Pro, yes, but not the macbook. Apple have always differentiated the two lines, the fact that current Macbooks are comparable to the Pros is just plain luck and won't last long, IMO.

ChickenSwartz
Aug 11, 2006, 09:28 AM
Yes, but after the Merom release the prices of Yonah will be cheaper.


But Merom has already been released. I guess you mean released in computers to consumers?

That makes sense, I would expect Intel to sell Merom for more (more $$ for them) unless they are trying to cut back production of Yonah.

daneoni
Aug 11, 2006, 09:29 AM
If they do a revision, then its safe to say we won't see another update till santa rosa chipsets ship next spring alongside leopard. Which means "next month" is a good time to buy a MBP at least for a while.

This also suggest new ipods this fall (for christmas), conroe iMacs at the paris expo, iPhone as well as iLife/iWork updates and maybe Leopard shipping at MWSF....we all know steve likes beating deadlines meaning Leopard would definately ship before spring, unless he really wants vista out first before showing his cards to avoid photocopying.

nived
Aug 11, 2006, 09:30 AM
It would be cool for them to keep the yonah in the low-end MacBook. That way with the price drop they could get back to a $999 entry-level notebook.

Merom definitely in the Black Macbook though, if this is true.

Why would they keep a 32-bit processor in the macbook when they're pushing 64-bit with Lepoard?

danielwsmithee
Aug 11, 2006, 09:31 AM
I think the black MacBook is sort of the Pro version of the MacBook. I expect the MBP and Black MacBook to receive top of the line Merom processors. The white MacBook will stick with the older yonah and receive a price drop to $999 at the bottom end.

vand0576
Aug 11, 2006, 09:32 AM
If they are truly planning this for the MacBook, then they are surely planning to bump the iMac to this chip too or better the Conroe. They continually refer to the MacBook and iMac as their "consumer line". I have been planning to buy an iMac for some time now, and this is definately an upgrade I would like to see. I'm most likely waiting until after MacWorld Expo to see what updates they will have for the iMac. The chip should be upgraded much before then, but I bet by that time they will have a few more upgrades for the iMac.

Mac Pro and Xserve have the Xeon (Woodcrest).
MacBook Pro, MacBook, and iMac will be upgraded to the Core 2 Duo (Merom) with iMac possibly being Conroe.
Mac Mini will probably keep the Core Duo (Yonah).

This sounds perfectly reasonable. Things are definately more interesting with the Intel chips because they are being rolled out so fast, unlike the PowerPC chips from Freescale/Motorola. It has only been about 6-7 months since the Core Duo was unveiled, now Core Duo 2 is here. Since Apple prides themselves on using advanced hardware, it only makes sense that they should upgrade the MacBook, MacBook Pro, and iMac to the Core 2 Duo (iMac=Conroe), and continue to upgrade to the best available chips Intel is offering at the time (aside from the 'extreme' editions).

danielwsmithee
Aug 11, 2006, 09:32 AM
Why would they keep a 32-bit processor in the macbook when they're pushing 64-bit with Lepoard?Yes but remember Leopard is not going to be only 64-bit, it will run 32-bit and 64-bit applications side by side.

mlrproducts
Aug 11, 2006, 09:33 AM
NO!!!! I'm broke and have the midrange MB. I just cannot stand them releasing the much faster processor (IE: not just mhz increase) in my computer this soon! Also, with my luck they'd switch to an nvidia chip at the same time...

vendettabass
Aug 11, 2006, 09:33 AM
what are the apple guys gonna' do with the mac mini! Im in the market for one w/edu discount! I'm waiting boys! What processors would you think the mac mini will adopt? End of core solo?

mlrproducts
Aug 11, 2006, 09:34 AM
Yes but remember Leopard is not going to be only 64-bit, it will run 32-bit and 64-bit applications side by side.

And also that it won't be out til January or later... plenty of time (closer to the 1st of the year) for them to upgrade..

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 09:37 AM
Conroe has a much faster FSB, more cache, and ramps up much faster in clock speed.

Merom and Yonah are replacements for Pentium-M. While Conroe is the replacement for the Pentium D. Conroe runs much hotter but not as hot as the old G5's. 45 C at full load for Conroe and 75 C for the 970FX.

And if you're worried about wattage...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2duo-shootout_11.html

Yeah, what he said. This is basically the reason. He wants to get as much performance out of it as he can as he will be using it for his econ PhD and will be running all kinds of Unix apps and computational programs, though he can't afford a Mac Pro. He's replacing his Dell laptop and doesn't have a need for mobility so he figures why buy a desktop that is basically a laptop.

Makes no sense to put these in Macbook so soon. Macbook Pro, yes, but not the macbook. Apple have always differentiated the two lines, the fact that current Macbooks are comparable to the Pros is just plain luck and won't last long, IMO.

I think Apple is really going to push the 64 bit thing. I see them as moving all their computers to 64 bit compatible processors as soon as they can so they can push Leopard that much harder. I can hear them now: "We are the first to move our entire line to 64 bit!" Apples loves that sort of stuff. It may not even matter that much performance wise but as a marketing tool, it's golden.

vendettabass
Aug 11, 2006, 09:39 AM
mac mini for 64 bit :p :D

ChickenSwartz
Aug 11, 2006, 09:41 AM
Mac Pro and Xserve have the Xeon (Woodcrest).
MacBook Pro, MacBook, and iMac will be upgraded to the Core 2 Duo (Merom).
Mac Mini will probably keep the Core Duo (Yonah).


I agree except I think they will put Conroe in the iMac.

nived
Aug 11, 2006, 09:41 AM
Yes but remember Leopard is not going to be only 64-bit, it will run 32-bit and 64-bit applications side by side.

True, but 64-bit in a 32-bit envrionment is still going to run only at 32-bit or not at all. But mlrproducts is right, they do have a while.

Collin973
Aug 11, 2006, 09:43 AM
Well, I've come to realize not to plan on buying your MBP based on rumors. I sold my 12" PB two weeks ago HOPING WWDC would bring me my MBP, but now I'm laptopless until september sometime.

Isn't there an old chinese proverb that goes something like..."Don't sell your beautiful powerbook based on rumors..."

I might not have quoted it right, but I'm pretty sure its close.

Anyways, I'm soooooo excited!!!!

Wait a second...if they release it in Paris, won't it no longer qualify for the free ipod?!? :(

BenRoethig
Aug 11, 2006, 09:44 AM
I look at it this way, the iMac, MacMini, Macbook, and Macbook pro can use Merom as is. No changes except firmware. In the iMac's case, why mess with a good thing and spend millions on another reengineering job when you already have a machine that is fast and dead quiet right now? Conroe in an iMac only makes sense it you think of it as a prosumer Mac instead of a family machine. Then again the idea of the iMac as a prosumer machine doesn’t make sense to me at all.

twoodcc
Aug 11, 2006, 09:45 AM
dang, right after i go and buy a Macbook......:eek:

vand0576
Aug 11, 2006, 09:47 AM
I agree except I think they will put Conroe in the iMac.


It's funny, cause right after I read what I had posted, I thought, oh damnit, i forgot about Conroe, and edited what I had posted. (all these damn codenames)

jcampa
Aug 11, 2006, 09:47 AM
So all this rumors about the Merom MBP are getting strong, all I want is to have it available at the end of this month or the beginning of the next, do you guys think this is possible?

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 09:48 AM
Wait a second...if they release it in Paris, won't it no longer qualify for the free ipod?!? :(

It still will qualify. The promo runs through the 16th of September and the Expo ends on the 16th. You'll just have to order it ASAP once it's announced.

thefunkymunky
Aug 11, 2006, 09:49 AM
My second replacement MBP is currently at the Apple Repair Centre and has been there for the last four weeks. Last update I had was that I need to give Apple another 48 hours to determine what has happened to my machine. If they don't have an answer for me they said they will send me a new one.

I am meant to call back next Tuesday. I'm thinking about leaving it another few weeks now and then calling. Maybe they'll send me a new Merom MBP by then;)

esaleris
Aug 11, 2006, 09:49 AM
I think to the end user, the difference between Yonah and Merom is minimal.

From a supply chain perspective, it is far easier to manage one SKU than multiple ones. You immediately half the number of CPUs that you need to stock by moving all mobile to Merom. And give the fact that some speculate the price between the two CPUs are minimal, and that Apple is a premium brand, it wouldn't be a far reach to see that it is quite advantageous for them to move onto better hardware and keep the price as is.

It's a speed bump, if anything. Not something Apple typically makes a big fuss about, despite the fact we know it's two different cores. Yonah -> Merom is a far smaller ordeal than Merom -> Santa Rosa.

slu
Aug 11, 2006, 09:50 AM
its always next tuesday isnt it?

here is to getting up early on tuesday morning, dragging my ass to the computer, and going to store.apple.com to be disappointed by the lack of the promise to be back within the hour.

Unless you are waiting to buy, what do you care? Why get up early? If there are updates, they will be there at the regular time you get up. And if there are not, you won't have gotten up early for nothing. Now that I think about it, why get up early even if you are buying? They will still take your order when you get up.

That being said, if true, this is great news. Apple computers will now be updated much faster than they used to be. People should feel better about buying now, because they should know that the next update is AWLAYS only a couple of months away. You know it is coming and there is nothing you can do about it, so you might as well buy when you need it. If you keep waiting for the next best thing, you'll always be waiting.

And please, for the love of all things holy, retire the Powerbook G5 "joke". It never was funny and it certainly isn't funny now.

M. Malone
Aug 11, 2006, 09:50 AM
Would I be able to drop a Conroe processor in my Core Duo iMac?

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 09:51 AM
Would I be able to drop a Conroe processor in my Core Duo iMac?No

http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom

DJMastaWes
Aug 11, 2006, 09:53 AM
I think Merom MBP would be smart on a tuesday. Because Paris is more of a consumer expo, and I think the Nano promo is to get rid of old ones, so they can bring out 2nd Gen Nanos at paris, so if they annouce a MBP before paris, they will see a large increase in sales (because thatt
's what everyone is waiting for) and thus an increase of free iPods...

Also, unless the macbook pros are getting a new case design, there is no need for a keynote...

twoodcc
Aug 11, 2006, 09:53 AM
Would I be able to drop a Conroe processor in my Core Duo iMac?

whoops, i thought you meant Merom

BigheadEdd
Aug 11, 2006, 09:54 AM
I can see them updating the MBP for definate. As the merom chips have just been released, and so apple has enough time to build stock and ship them at paris.
However, I can't see them doing the rumored case re-design, as the 'Pro' line, is meant to match right? and the Mac Pro looks exactly like the old one, apart from the dual drives, so I don't think they'll change the MBPs design just yet.

Damn all this waiting :( I want one now!!!

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 09:55 AM
I agree with many of the other posters here - if the MacBooks are going Core 2 Duo, then the iMac can't be far behind, especially since it's Apple's flagship consumer machine in many respects. I guess the only question will be whether the iMac receives a Merom chip as well, or Conroe. From a technical perspective, I do not believe there are any performance differences between the two architectures. Therefore, Apple could use either. Conroe is a desktop chip, so perhaps Apple will implement it in the iMac so that it can be similar to the corresponding Dell etc. machines which use it as well. On the other hand, Merom runs cooler, and with a confined, streamlined design such as the iMac's, it may make more sense to use Merom instead of Conroe. Merom will definitely be used in the Mac mini eventually IMO.

As for the MacBooks though (which I suppose is what this article is actually about!) this is great news. My wife is wanting a new MacBook and I told her to wait for these Core 2 Duo updates. Looks like she won't have as long to wait as I initially thought, which is great. :cool:

DJMastaWes
Aug 11, 2006, 09:56 AM
Damn all this waiting :( I want one now!!!
Pfft, I know, this really sucks. I want to have fun with it BEFORE school starts.

The 29th seems like a good day for a Merom MacBook pro, it's more then 2 weeks pass of WWDC and 2 Weeks untill Paris.

thogs_cave
Aug 11, 2006, 09:57 AM
Damn, and I just got my new MacBook yesterday

Plus if my MacBook gets lonely and depressed he can talk to my 1st gen PowerMac G5
Shasta

I really doubt that the MacBook will be updated that quickly. It wouldn't make much sense, but then again we are talking Apple.

And, don't worry. My MacBook and 1st-gen G5 get along just fine. :D

Monk Edsel
Aug 11, 2006, 09:57 AM
Eh... yeah. Of course I have a MacBook on the way! :( Not a huge deal, but having a 64 bit processor would be nice! But then, my company is buying it for me, so I guess it doesn't really matter in the end anyway. ;)

glitch44
Aug 11, 2006, 09:57 AM
question: are the CPUs in the macbook socketed or soldered?

could i buy my own Core 2 Duo chip and drop it in there at a later date?

i don't really care about the mhz increase, but the Core 2 Duo line does seem to be a little cooler at idle...

ChickenSwartz
Aug 11, 2006, 09:59 AM
Wait a second...if they release it in Paris, won't it no longer qualify for the free ipod?!? :(

If the Keynote is on the first day of the Expo that would be the 12th.

The iPod offere ends on the 16th, the end of the Paris Expo.

You might have to place your order online as I expect they wouldn't be in stores by then, but you [we] should be all set.

jmsait19
Aug 11, 2006, 10:00 AM
I don't think it is a bad idea for Apple to put Merom in the MacBooks for this reason...

Apple is being more directly compared to Dell and such these days since they are running Intel chips. And the PC makers are going to put those processors in their computers as soon as they can. If Apple doesn't want to look like they are behind in the times, they have to put these processors in also.

It makes for a little smaller of a gap between the consumer and pro (remember there is still the video card holding steady) but I think overall it will be better because we will get the updates sooner rather than later...


In all reality however, I don't actually know.

Carry on...

ChickenSwartz
Aug 11, 2006, 10:00 AM
question: are the CPUs in the macbook socketed or soldered?

could i buy my own Core 2 Duo chip and drop it in there at a later date?

i don't really care about the mhz increase, but the Core 2 Duo line does seem to be a little cooler at idle...

MacBook and MacBook Pro are soldered. So no, you can't change it.

The iMac and MacMini are socketed.

emotion
Aug 11, 2006, 10:02 AM
I think to the end user, the difference between Yonah and Merom is minimal.

From a supply chain perspective, it is far easier to manage one SKU than multiple ones. You immediately half the number of CPUs that you need to stock by moving all mobile to Merom. And give the fact that some speculate the price between the two CPUs are minimal, and that Apple is a premium brand, it wouldn't be a far reach to see that it is quite advantageous for them to move onto better hardware and keep the price as is.


Good point.


It's a speed bump, if anything. Not something Apple typically makes a big fuss about, despite the fact we know it's two different cores. Yonah -> Merom is a far smaller ordeal than Merom -> Santa Rosa.

Well actually merom will still be used when santa rosa chipsets come out (santa rosa is the chipset, merom the chip that it supports). I get what you're saying though.

G4scott
Aug 11, 2006, 10:02 AM
Hopefully they'll release the MacBook pros before Sept. 16 so I can still get my free iPod nano, but knowing Apple, they always wait until the end if their major promotion to introduce new stuff... Perhaps they'll update the MBP before then and the iPods after the 16th. I don't really need the latest iPod out there.

I'm holding off for the new MBP because from what I've seen, the current ones still have issues. It was Apple's first Mac to go to Intel, and although they've made some changes, it's still "first generation". I'm hoping the next revision will have more than just a processor upgrade.

That said, I don't see the MacBooks going with the Core 2 Duo until sometime next year. The Core Duo is a fine chip, and will handle pretty much anything a MacBook owner would need, and it would make the more expensive MacBook Pro seem more appealing.

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:05 AM
Well, I bought my iMac Core Duo this Wednesday. Yes, AFTER Tuesday. I kinda needed it since I've waited since June for a new Mac. I'd be computerless otherwise. No worries, my boss wants first dibs on buying it off of me next year. :D

bperboy
Aug 11, 2006, 10:05 AM
This is good news for me. I'm an advanced/expert user of winblows, and I've reinstalled XP for the last time! Too many things don't go as it should, and I shouldn't even have to reinstall the operating system every 6 blasted months! I'm planning on getting the high end mac laptop in about a year, but its good to know that progress is being made!

DJMastaWes
Aug 11, 2006, 10:06 AM
I'm holding off for the new MBP because from what I've seen, the current ones still have issues. It was Apple's first Mac to go to Intel, and although they've made some changes, it's still "first generation". I'm hoping the next revision will have more than just a processor upgrade.

The iMac was the first to go to intel.

emotion
Aug 11, 2006, 10:06 AM
That said, I don't see the MacBooks going with the Core 2 Duo until sometime next year. The Core Duo is a fine chip, and will handle pretty much anything a MacBook owner would need, and it would make the more expensive MacBook Pro seem more appealing.

I'm not sure Intel will be selling yonahs at that point. It's not really up to apple anymore more to do with the economics of dealing with Intel. Which is actually a good thing, things move quicker that way.

mashinhead
Aug 11, 2006, 10:06 AM
MacBook and MacBook Pro are soldered. So no, you can't change it.

The iMac and MacMini are socketed.


will there be a third party company that offers these upgrades to consumers?

Gatorman
Aug 11, 2006, 10:07 AM
Wait a second...if they release it in Paris, won't it no longer qualify for the free ipod?!? :(


BINGO! :D

Well, due to my disappointment that they didn't release it at WWDC, I can't stand the waiting anymore so I've decided to go into suspended animation until they release the MBP in the next few weeks. Somebody make sure to wake me when its time to open up my wallet! :rolleyes:

kjr39
Aug 11, 2006, 10:09 AM
Are there any benchmarks for the Core 2 Duo chips? What would we be getting from the upgrade?

DJMastaWes
Aug 11, 2006, 10:10 AM
BINGO! :D

Well, due to my disappointment that they didn't release it at WWDC, I can't stand the waiting anymore so I've decided to go into suspended animation until they release the MBP in the next few weeks. Somebody make sure to wake me when its time to open up my wallet! :rolleyes:
Only if I get some of that opend wallet.

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:11 AM
Are there any benchmarks for the Core 2 Duo chips? What would we be getting from the upgrade?Merom or Conroe?

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795

sunfast
Aug 11, 2006, 10:12 AM
Quad Xeons in the MacBook Pro, pretty please. After all, it is Apple's professional notebook line.

Yes, and the MacBook for $299. After all, it is Apple's entry level notebook line.

emotion
Aug 11, 2006, 10:12 AM
will there be a third party company that offers these upgrades to consumers?

They are already available, these are standard PC parts now remember.

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=14564&GroupID=1674

mashinhead
Aug 11, 2006, 10:20 AM
They are already available, these are standard PC parts now remember.

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=14564&GroupID=1674

Well i know i can get the chip, but then don't i need a new motherboard too, and who/where would i get that put in?

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 10:22 AM
I think to the end user, the difference between Yonah and Merom is minimal.
...

It's a speed bump, if anything.

Quite incorrect actually. The dfifference is not minimal and this isn't just a "speed bump". If you read up on the Yonah and Merom chip architectures, you'll see that that Merom has significant architectural improvements over Yonah, including a 4MB L2 cache and most notably 64-bit support over Yonah's 32-bit support. This is very significant since Jobs is pushing Leopard and its 64-bit goodness. :cool:

emotion
Aug 11, 2006, 10:22 AM
Well i know i can get the chip, but then don't i need a new motherboard too, and who/where would i get that put in?

No, the same chipset is used for Merom at this stage (Santa Rosa won't be around until next year). I think a firmware update might be needed but possibly not. Those Core Solo Mac Minis look good to me for a makeover.

dr_lha
Aug 11, 2006, 10:23 AM
They are already available, these are standard PC parts now remember.

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=14564&GroupID=1674
There is no current Mac that this chip can "drop into", apart from maybe a Mac Pro, but going from a Woodcrest to a Conroe would be a downgrade in that case.

The Merom that should eventually go into the iMac, mini, MBP and MacBook are currently not on sale to the consumer.

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:25 AM
They are already available, these are standard PC parts now remember.

http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=14564&GroupID=1674That's Conroe. Merom can be put into the current iMac/Mac Mini. If you're adventureous to open the machines up or getting a third party installation. Otherwise you're looking at an entire logic board replacement for the laptops. It's probably better just to wait and buy an entire new laptop.

There is no current Mac that this chip can "drop into", apart from maybe a Mac Pro, but going from a Woodcrest to a Conroe would be a downgrade in that case.

The Merom that should eventually go into the iMac, mini, MBP and MacBook are currently not on sale to the consumer.http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom

Read the Guide...

emotion
Aug 11, 2006, 10:26 AM
Quite incorrect actually. The dfifference is not minimal and this isn't just a "speed bump". If you read up on the Yonah and Merom chip architectures, you'll see that that Merom has significant architectural improvements over Yonah, including a 4MB L2 cache and most notably 64-bit support over Yonah's 32-bit support. This is very significant since Jobs is pushing Leopard and its 64-bit goodness. :cool:

I think he means it's a speed bump in terms of sales. Not technically. Though I may have him/her wrong.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 11, 2006, 10:27 AM
Quad Xeons in the MacBook Pro, pretty please. After all, it is Apple's professional notebook line.

Hehe, that's the funniest thing I've read this week :p :D

Hopefully we'll see the MBP hit 2.33 GHz and the iMac get the 2.4 GHz Conroe.

grockk
Aug 11, 2006, 10:31 AM
Makes no sense to put these in Macbook so soon. Macbook Pro, yes, but not the macbook. Apple have always differentiated the two lines, the fact that current Macbooks are comparable to the Pros is just plain luck and won't last long, IMO.

You are reasoning from apple's history but it's all different now. The problem with this logic is that since Dell, HP and Gateway will be using the merom in consumer computers and apple is using the same chips as everyone else they have to use merom too or appear to be behind in the technology.

fishkorp
Aug 11, 2006, 10:32 AM
so once these are released, what are the chances if my MBP was broken Apple Care would replace it with a new Core 2 Duo one?

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:35 AM
so once these are released, what are the chances if my MBP was broken Apple Care would replace it with a new Core 2 Duo one?It's possible. I've heard of iBooks replaced with MacBooks and iMac G5's with Intel ones.

dr_lha
Aug 11, 2006, 10:38 AM
That's Conroe. Merom can be put into the current iMac/Mac Mini. If you're adventureous to open the machines up or getting a third party installation. Otherwise you're looking at an entire logic board replacement for the laptops. It's probably better just to wait and buy an entire new laptop.

http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom

Read the Guide...
Read the link, the chip on that link was a Conroe, not a Merom.

What exactly was wrong with what I posted?

GFLPraxis
Aug 11, 2006, 10:40 AM
This is good news for future Macbook owners. I'm interested in when the iMac will get Conroe. A friend of mine is switching from Windows and wants the iMac but is waiting for Conroe in the iMac. I only hope they go with the desktop processor in the iMac and not Merom since he's not interested in the mobile processor in his desktop.



Well, hopefully the iMac will be updated sooner than the portables. Conroe is out and available in quantities now where as Merom won't be as available in quantities until the end of this month.

Same here. I want a new iMac but I don't want to miss the Get A Free iPod With a New Mac deal.

vand0576
Aug 11, 2006, 10:41 AM
so once these are released, what are the chances if my MBP was broken Apple Care would replace it with a new Core 2 Duo one?

Absolutely slim to none. When my 4G monochrome iPod broke down after both the releases to the iPod photo and iPoc 5G, I thought for sure I'd get an upgrade but it's not the case. I'm sure somehow they still have 4G ipods in stock. My guess is they hold them for two years after the last sale of the product, so that the applecare is meant to replace, not upgrade.

No chance your computer will be simply replaced. They would work on it, not upgrade it. Intel still makes the chips, and remember Apple has to buy them in lots of 1,000. They have plenty.

vand0576
Aug 11, 2006, 10:42 AM
Same here. I want a new iMac but I don't want to miss the Get A Free iPod With a New Mac deal.

I don't want to miss the deal either, but if you are waiting for iMac upgrades before buying, it will be a while.

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:44 AM
Read the link, the chip on that link was a Conroe, not a Merom.

What exactly was wrong with what I posted?The link (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=14564&GroupID=1674) that was posted was to a Conroe chip. mashinhead asked for third party upgrades for the the current Yonah based line here. #64 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2708950&postcount=64) emotion replied with this link #70 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2708988&postcount=70)

Conroe cannot fit into Yonah's socket.

dr_lha
Aug 11, 2006, 10:45 AM
The link that was posted was to a Conroe chip. mashinhead asked for third party upgrades for the the current Yonah based line here. #64 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2708950&postcount=64)

Conroe cannot fit into Merom's socket.
Which is exactly what I said in my post.

I'm totallly confused as to why you're saying I was wrong here. The chip linked was Conroe, I said:

There is no current Mac that this chip can "drop into", apart from maybe a Mac Pro, but going from a Woodcrest to a Conroe would be a downgrade in that case.

The Merom that should eventually go into the iMac, mini, MBP and MacBook are currently not on sale to the consumer.

Exactly what was wrong with this again, apart from your not reading it correctly?

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:48 AM
Which is exactly what I said in my post.

I'm totallly confused as to why you're saying I was wrong here. The chip linked was Conroe, I said:

Exactly what was wrong with this again, apart from your not reading it correctly?

There is no current Mac that this chip can "drop into", apart from maybe a Mac ProYou can drop in Merom into the current socketed Yonah lines. That is what I was getting at.

I know that the link (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=14564&GroupID=1674) that was posted was to a Conroe chip though.

wildmac
Aug 11, 2006, 10:49 AM
I'm waiting until revB MacBooks anyway, but it's nice to hear that Apple will aggresively upgrade the CPUs.

But if you think about it, they have to. Because Dell and every other PC vendor will be using the latest and greatest from Intel, so Apple will need to as well.

If they can drop in the newer chip without raising the price, go for it! :D

gnasher729
Aug 11, 2006, 10:49 AM
Merom and Yonah are replacements for Pentium-M. While Conroe is the replacement for the Pentium D.

That is just marketing. In reality, Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest are all based on exactly the same archicture, with Merom optimised for low power consumption and Conroe optimised for clock speed.

dr_lha
Aug 11, 2006, 10:51 AM
You can drop in Merom into the current socketed Yonah lines. That is what I was getting at. I know that the link (http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=14564&GroupID=1674) that was posted was to a Conroe chip though.

I was responding to a link to a Conroe chip. Hence why I said that there is no Mac that the *linked Conroe* chip can be put into *apart from maybe the Mac Pro* which has the right socket.

Again, you're just reading my post incorrectly.

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:51 AM
That is just marketing. In reality, Merom, Conroe and Woodcrest are all based on exactly the same archicture, with Merom optimised for low power consumption and Conroe optimised for clock speed.Core Duo (Yonah) is derived off of Pentium-M much more directly then Core 2 Duo (Merom). You are correct though. Same chips, just picked to fit each form factor application.

I was responding to a link to a Conroe chip. Hence why I said that there is no Mac that the *linked Conroe* chip can be put into *apart from maybe the Mac Pro* which has the right socket.

Again, you're just reading my post incorrectly.Woodcrest is a LGA771 (Socket J). Conroe is LGA775 (Socket T) You are correct that no current Mac can take Conroe.

However, there are Macs that can take Merom, faster Yonah, and faster Woodcrest chips. I guess that was the miscommunication.

milo
Aug 11, 2006, 10:52 AM
Apple is being more directly compared to Dell and such these days since they are running Intel chips. And the PC makers are going to put those processors in their computers as soon as they can. If Apple doesn't want to look like they are behind in the times, they have to put these processors in also.

Do you really think Dell will put merom in ALL laptops and not use yonah at all? I doubt it. Yonah will likely always be cheaper and we'll probably see it for a while in budget laptops. I could see yonah either staying in macbooks for a bit, or staying in the base model only (or even a special edu config like the iMac has).

MacBook and MacBook Pro are soldered. So no, you can't change it.

The iMac and MacMini are socketed.

And the Pro. :)

Are there any benchmarks for the Core 2 Duo chips? What would we be getting from the upgrade?

Supposedly about 20% faster at the same clock speed, plus they are 64 bit, but the benefits of that in these machines is somewhat debatable. It's a nice upgrade, but not a huge one.

Quite incorrect actually. The dfifference is not minimal and this isn't just a "speed bump". If you read up on the Yonah and Merom chip architectures, you'll see that that Merom has significant architectural improvements over Yonah, including a 4MB L2 cache and most notably 64-bit support over Yonah's 32-bit support. This is very significant since Jobs is pushing Leopard and its 64-bit goodness. :cool:

But that "goodness" mostly looks like greater memory access, which is a moot point in a machine with two ram slots. Most of the "goodness" isn't anything a laptop user will notice.

rxse7en
Aug 11, 2006, 10:53 AM
Could Apple technically squeeze a Xeon proc into the MBP?

nomad01
Aug 11, 2006, 10:53 AM
I'm holding off for the new MBP because from what I've seen, the current ones still have issues. It was Apple's first Mac to go to Intel, and although they've made some changes, it's still "first generation".

Yes but of course when this new MBP is released that will also be a first gen. Everytime there's some kind of redesign, you could be looking at teething problems.

As for the current MBP, I bought mine after the last revisions and it's perfect. No moo, no whine, no... well you get the picture. After reading negative comments on here I was almost dreading it arriving but it's been an absolute dream. No regrets.

dr_lha
Aug 11, 2006, 10:54 AM
Could Apple technically squeeze a Xeon proc into the MBP?
Have you seen the size of the heat sink in the Mac Pro? ;)

rxse7en
Aug 11, 2006, 10:56 AM
Have you seen the size of the heat sink in the Mac Pro? ;)
What's the difference? My PB G4 fried my testicles years ago...



:D

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 10:57 AM
Have you seen the size of the heat sink in the Mac Pro? ;)Why yes. :D

nagromme
Aug 11, 2006, 11:00 AM
My guess: it's a game of "telephone" in which someone misunderstood the meaning of "both laptops." I think it means the 15" and 17" MBP, not the MBP and MB.

Which does the bottom-end laptop buyer need the most? A lower price (with no reduction in Apple profits) or faster CPU? The former of course, so as Yonah drops in price I expect it to be used for some time to come.

Yonah is already a VERY fast, G5-class processor--and Apple's bottom model has two of them! It's not screaming for an upgrade when that would prevent a price drop.

The need for 64-bit will come to low-end users, but not yet.

mdntcallr
Aug 11, 2006, 11:01 AM
I would be happier if they announced the new model asap. and shipped asap. i need a new laptop now.

but... honestly, Apple needs to differentiate between macbook and macbook pro lines. so i bet the macbook update will merely be and update in speed to the higher speed versions of the chips they already have.

why? i just don't think Intel will be churning out the new merom chips fast enough to put them in all the Macbooks. and the mini's.

Also, isnt the Imac supposed to get the other version of the new Intel chip? you know... Core 2 Duo desktop (Conroe). cause They just came with a nice 64 bit chip. my bet is this chip will show up somewhere also. and it will be in the Imac and maybe even macmini.

Apple is probably going to spread out the chips they use, cause they won't be getting tons of each one in too much volume. and the desktop versions will offer better performance for the desktop models. ie imac and possibly the macmini.

mdntcallr
Aug 11, 2006, 11:05 AM
I'm holding off for the new MBP because from what I've seen, the current ones still have issues. It was Apple's first Mac to go to Intel, and although they've made some changes, it's still "first generation". I'm hoping the next revision will have more than just a processor upgrade.
.

Dude, they have made numerous fixes under the hood and revisions.

just not changes to the configuration.

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 11:11 AM
Everyone waiting on the Core 2 Duo MacBook needs to get a clue.

It's the same folks who were falling over waiting to WWDC to come so they could order their Core 2 Duo MacBooks after the keynote!

Apple IS NOT going to move the MacBook to a Core 2 Duo until they've updated:

1) MacBook Pro

2) iMac

3) Maybe even Mac Mini, since it's been out forever!

The MacBook is barely three months old. It may get a speed bump and/or price cut soon, but won't get a new chip.

All of you saying Apple has to upgrade it to a Core 2 Duo to complete with Dell, HP, etc - why? Why do they HAVE to? Will they explode if they don't? Will the sun stop shining? Will all the world's puppies die?

Of course they'll upgrade it eventually. That doesn't mean it needs to be upgraded as soon as the chips are available. If you look at other PC maker's sites, most of their machines don't even have the Core Duo chips yet; there's no rush.

You can't claim Apple will inevitable act a certain way now that they're on Intel chips; you don't know that. They have no history of using Intel chips. Just because your bright minds think it would be a good idea to move the MB line to the latest and greatest chip whenever a new one is released by Intel because "that's what the other guys are doing," it doesn't mean Apple agrees with you.

What we DO know for a fact is Apple like to differentiate between consumer and pro lines, and Apple has never been one to put the latest chips into the iMac or Mac Mini level machines - and I don't see either of that changing.

mdntcallr
Aug 11, 2006, 11:11 AM
apple needs to introduce a computer which is between the mac mini and the mac pro tower.

I want a mini tower, with 2 pci slots. you know something in the price range of $899-999 usd.

where i can upgrade the graphics card or order it with a better graphics card.

Some of us do not want to be tied to the imac screen/body. I love to be able to upgrade my own computer's graphics card.

Cmon apple. give us a mid tier system we can upgrade ourselves. The Macmini just doesnt cut it. virtually the only thing in that we can chance is the CPU, Memory or hard drive.

dernhelm
Aug 11, 2006, 11:12 AM
Why would they give the Macbook that but leave the iMac with the original Core Duo? Doesn't make sense. I would think all three would get it or just the Macbook Pro.

The report out of China was about companies supplying macbooks, not the one's supplying the iMacs. They said nothing about the iMac because they weren't in that model's supply chain. I would expect the iMac to updated at the same time as well. I'm also betting that the macbook pro and macbook both get core 2 duo chips, with MBP getting faster ones with 4MB L2 cache, and MB getting slower ones with lower L2 cache.

dernhelm
Aug 11, 2006, 11:17 AM
apple needs to introduce a computer which is between the mac mini and the mac pro tower.

I want a mini tower, with 2 pci slots. you know something in the price range of $899-999 usd.

where i can upgrade the graphics card or order it with a better graphics card.

Some of us do not want to be tied to the imac screen/body. I love to be able to upgrade my own computer's graphics card.

Cmon apple. give us a mid tier system we can upgrade ourselves. The Macmini just doesnt cut it. virtually the only thing in that we can chance is the CPU, Memory or hard drive.

The mini and macbook seem destined to use onboard video for the near (foreseeable) future. That's one of the differentiators Apple is using on those "consumer" brands.

When you think about it, it isn't unreasonable, if updating the iMac's video card weren't such a herculean effort, you could just point "pro-sumers" at the iMac, or 15" macbook.

The real problem is that they made video card upgrades on the iMac very difficult.

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 11:19 AM
Apple IS NOT going to move the MacBook to a Core 2 Duo until they've updated:

1) MacBook Pro

2) iMac

3) Maybe even Mac Mini, since it's been out forever!



Both the iMac and the MBP have been out longer than the Mini. The MBP has received slight CPU updates but the iMac has been out going on 8 months with no update at all.

milo
Aug 11, 2006, 11:22 AM
Well, hopefully the iMac will be updated sooner than the portables. Conroe is out and available in quantities now where as Merom won't be as available in quantities until the end of this month.

But the portables can be upgraded with no change to the motherboard. Conroe is a different socket, so it needs a redesign. I hope they take iMac to conroe, but it's possible they could do a merom update instead, at least as a temporary measure.

This is probably because merom is aimed at mainly at laptops, however there's no reason by they shouldn't put it in an iMac.

There are reasons. Biggest one is merom is more expensive than conroe. You'd be wasting money on power saving features that aren't needed.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it was my understanding that Yonah and Merom were being priced identically (at same clock speed) by Intel.

I doubt that will last. I assume Yonah prices will drop once merom ships.

Quad Xeons in the MacBook Pro, pretty please. After all, it is Apple's professional notebook line.

You're kidding, right? The xeon isn't a portable chip, the heat and power usage would make that impossible. Why don't you ask for three open PCI slots in your laptop while you're at it? And a pony?

NO!!!! I'm broke and have the midrange MB. I just cannot stand them releasing the much faster processor (IE: not just mhz increase) in my computer this soon!

It's not that much faster, probably about 20% at the same clock speed. That's nice, but not much different from a mhz boost.

I look at it this way, the iMac, MacMini, Macbook, and Macbook pro can use Merom as is. No changes except firmware. In the iMac's case, why mess with a good thing and spend millions on another reengineering job when you already have a machine that is fast and dead quiet right now? Conroe in an iMac only makes sense it you think of it as a prosumer Mac instead of a family machine. Then again the idea of the iMac as a prosumer machine doesn’t make sense to me at all.

Actually, you don't even need a firmware change, people have already done the swap and it works fine. Conroe does make sense in an iMac just because it's cheaper. And future chips will use the Conroe socket so they're going to need to update the design eventually anyway.

3CCD
Aug 11, 2006, 11:24 AM
I'm waiting after the new year with the release of OS X 10.5 and then possibly getting a MBP. When is the Pairs show? I keep reading September but what are the exact dates? Thanks.

kenaustus
Aug 11, 2006, 11:25 AM
I believe that the only reason why Apple has not made a full transition to Core 2 is the lack of sufficient supply from Intel. As soon as they have the inventory they will stop ordering Core and move fully to Core 2.

In terms of MB and MBP, the performance difference will be related to graphics - integrated -v- a graphics board. The MBP will also have the larger display size, lighted keyboard, etc. to place them "above" the MB.

The issue for Apple is not the difference between the MB & MBP, but the competitive position of the two in the general notebook market. Moving fully to Core 2 keeps both notebooks at the top of their market segments in terms of processors - not a bad idea since the costs of the new Core 2s is very similar to the costs they paid for Cores.

Sam*
Aug 11, 2006, 11:28 AM
I'm also betting that the macbook pro and macbook both get core 2 duo chips, with MBP getting faster ones with 4MB L2 cache, and MB getting slower ones with lower L2 cache.

i agree, this will set them the mb and mbp apart well

Although i still think the macbook will use core duo for a while to come with for now if the mbp's get merom, the mb will have the clock speeds of the current mbp's (2.0 and 2.16) when the new mbp is released,

But most of all i want conroe in the iMac

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 11:28 AM
Both the iMac and the MBP have been out longer than the Mini. The MBP has received slight CPU updates but the iMac has been out going on 8 months with no update at all.

Well yeah, but my point was they're going to move the pro lines to the Core 2 Duos before the consumer lines, regardless of the length of release.

BenRoethig
Aug 11, 2006, 11:40 AM
Actually, you don't even need a firmware change, people have already done the swap and it works fine. Conroe does make sense in an iMac just because it's cheaper. And future chips will use the Conroe socket so they're going to need to update the design eventually anyway.

Cheaper per chip price. Factor in all the design changes that would have to be made, and it might not be in the long run.

daneoni
Aug 11, 2006, 11:45 AM
Does this mean merom machines will return to the original pricing the yonah machines debuted with or will the pricing pick up from where it is now?

CellarDoor
Aug 11, 2006, 11:49 AM
...And please, for the love of all things holy, retire the Powerbook G5 "joke". It never was funny and it certainly isn't funny now.

Agreed.

daneoni
Aug 11, 2006, 11:52 AM
Agreed.

I like it:D

Kelmon
Aug 11, 2006, 11:59 AM
Well, I bought my iMac Core Duo this Wednesday. Yes, AFTER Tuesday. I kinda needed it since I've waited since June for a new Mac.

Heck, I've been waiting about 2-years now for the PowerBook G5/MacBook Pro Merom. I was gutted that they weren't announced on Monday but wasn't expecting them to be shipping anyway until much later this month or September. Anyway, looks like it'll be just over another month before an announcement plus however many days it takes to configure one and send it to me.

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 12:00 PM
I'm waiting after the new year with the release of OS X 10.5 and then possibly getting a MBP. When is the Pairs show? I keep reading September but what are the exact dates? Thanks.

September 12th-16th.

Eidorian
Aug 11, 2006, 12:04 PM
Merom vs. Yonah Benchmarks (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808)

Cry me a river if you're using Yonah. Unless you need 64-bit or are encoding video/audio 24/7 on your laptop the gains aren't paramount.

CommodityFetish
Aug 11, 2006, 12:04 PM
For the Holiday market they will want Merom in the high end (black) Macbook, if not all of them. That means Sept-Oct... Historically the iBook was updated in october... (see buyers guide...)

The difference between the MB & MBP is now the graphics card, screen size, expansion slot etc. With no 12" PB/MBP they can't afford to hold back the high end MB. If they are smart they will keep Yonah in the low end for a budget model, and Merom in the high end for pros who want a smaller & lighter laptop.

I'm guessing that's what the black MB is all about.

I'm also guessing there will not be a way to get the edu ipod deal with the new laptops, if apple's history is any indicator...

It is about time for the iMac and Mini's to update as well. It's a 64-bit marketing future for OSX and their sales of Leopard will suffer if the machines aren't out there to support this big new feature.

Come Nov. I'd say the Yonah will only be in the low end Mini and low end MB.

DJMastaWes
Aug 11, 2006, 12:05 PM
Do people really think were going to get Merom macbook pros at paris? I was thinkg we would see it on a tuesday before paris.

daneoni
Aug 11, 2006, 12:18 PM
For all who are saying Merom is not necessarily better..64 bit who needs it/no apps for it....marginally faster....waste of time waiting for it. We know we dont NEED it but we still WANT it.

Think of your cellphones they have tons of features most of us hardly use but we still like the fact that we have those features should we need em. Its ancient geek behaviour we want the best/fastest/superior no matter how marginal or ridiculously illogical/impractical.

:D

bluetorch18
Aug 11, 2006, 12:21 PM
I really hope Apple gives the MBP a much better GPU that isn't underclocked out of the box. They would have my 2 grand in a second.

amols
Aug 11, 2006, 12:22 PM
Quite incorrect actually. The dfifference is not minimal and this isn't just a "speed bump". If you read up on the Yonah and Merom chip architectures, you'll see that that Merom has significant architectural improvements over Yonah, including a 4MB L2 cache and most notably 64-bit support over Yonah's 32-bit support. This is very significant since Jobs is pushing Leopard and its 64-bit goodness. :cool:

Umm..technically you are right, but the the difference of 5-15% is not very significant, especially compared to Conroe's 40% jump. Merom's power is limited by slower FSB which is not going to see any change anytime soon. I just hope they fix current MBP issues first like battery life, underclocked graphic card and Superdrives. CPU upgrade is just a ritual Apple has to perform to stay in the league.

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 12:31 PM
I think he means it's a speed bump in terms of sales. Not technically. Though I may have him/her wrong.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I could see that being the case now that you mention it.

Most of the "goodness" isn't anything a laptop user will notice.

Quite true. Again, I was speaking from a technical perspective, but practically, yes, this is quite true.

Umm..technically you are right, but the the difference of 5-15% is not very significant, especially compared to Conroe's 40% jump. Merom's power is limited by slower FSB which is not going to see any change anytime soon. I just hope they fix current MBP issues first like battery life, underclocked graphic card and Superdrives. CPU upgrade is just a ritual Apple has to perform to stay in the league.

Gotcha, and agreed - see above. ;) :D

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 12:33 PM
Do people really think were going to get Merom macbook pros at paris? I was thinkg we would see it on a tuesday before paris.

I think Paris would be a logical time to unveil a new product. That being said, this is "just an upgrade", not a new product (it's not like the MacBooks are moving to Intel for the first time), so perhaps they will receive an update on "any given Tuesday" instead, and Paris will be reserved for something new, for instance a new full-screen touchless iPod. ;) :cool:

QCassidy352
Aug 11, 2006, 12:33 PM
I've said all along the imac will get conroe. With woodcrest in the mac pro, I'd say it's pretty well guaranteed. The imac only got a laptop processor because it was the only choice. From here on out it'll get the desktop processor it deserves.

I also think the macbook will get merom sooner rather than later. The two lines will still be differentiated by size, screen res, casing, backlit keys, dedicated graphics, and express card slot. The macbook needs to compete against PC laptops, not the macbook pro. The processors will pretty similar on the G4 laptops before intel (1.33/1.42 for the ibook, 1.5/1.67 for the powerbook) and yet there were still plenty of compelling reasons to go for the powerbook. Same thing still applies.

Kingsly
Aug 11, 2006, 12:42 PM
About. Freaking. Time.


This is one rumor that I cant afford to miss.

ariza910
Aug 11, 2006, 12:43 PM
Yes, actualy all the worlds puppies will die


Everyone waiting on the Core 2 Duo MacBook needs to get a clue.

It's the same folks who were falling over waiting to WWDC to come so they could order their Core 2 Duo MacBooks after the keynote!

Apple IS NOT going to move the MacBook to a Core 2 Duo until they've updated:

1) MacBook Pro

2) iMac

3) Maybe even Mac Mini, since it's been out forever!

The MacBook is barely three months old. It may get a speed bump and/or price cut soon, but won't get a new chip.

All of you saying Apple has to upgrade it to a Core 2 Duo to complete with Dell, HP, etc - why? Why do they HAVE to? Will they explode if they don't? Will the sun stop shining? Will all the world's puppies die?

Of course they'll upgrade it eventually. That doesn't mean it needs to be upgraded as soon as the chips are available. If you look at other PC maker's sites, most of their machines don't even have the Core Duo chips yet; there's no rush.

You can't claim Apple will inevitable act a certain way now that they're on Intel chips; you don't know that. They have no history of using Intel chips. Just because your bright minds think it would be a good idea to move the MB line to the latest and greatest chip whenever a new one is released by Intel because "that's what the other guys are doing," it doesn't mean Apple agrees with you.

What we DO know for a fact is Apple like to differentiate between consumer and pro lines, and Apple has never been one to put the latest chips into the iMac or Mac Mini level machines - and I don't see either of that changing.

uv23
Aug 11, 2006, 12:48 PM
Apple will not keep Yonah in the MacBooks. Such a marketing differentiation tactic would be idiocy. All PC manufacturers are moving to Merom when it's available. The cost is the same. Yonah is dead. I expect a simultaneous transition of MBP, MB, and iMac very soon, moving all Macs to 64 bit.

eenu
Aug 11, 2006, 12:51 PM
Apple will not keep Yonah in the MacBooks. Such a marketing differentiation tactic would be idiocy. All PC manufacturers are moving to Merom when it's available. The cost is the same. Yonah is dead. I expect a simultaneous transition of MBP, MB, and iMac very soon, moving all Macs to 64 bit.

I suggest you read up about Intels supply numbers! There will be no simultaneous transition as Intel cannot supply the demand this would create

MacSA
Aug 11, 2006, 01:03 PM
Could "Conroe" ever make its way into a Mac Mini? Or would it just cause the mini to melt into a metalic puddle on the desk?

manic
Aug 11, 2006, 01:18 PM
Everyone waiting on the Core 2 Duo MacBook needs to get a clue.

The MacBook is barely three months old. It may get a speed bump and/or price cut soon, but won't get a new chip.

All of you saying Apple has to upgrade it to a Core 2 Duo to complete with Dell, HP, etc - why? Why do they HAVE to? Will they explode if they don't? Will the sun stop shining? Will all the world's puppies die?

You can't claim Apple will inevitable act a certain way now that they're on Intel chips; you don't know that. They have no history of using Intel chips. Just because your bright minds think it would be a good idea to move the MB line to the latest and greatest chip whenever a new one is released by Intel because "that's what the other guys are doing," it doesn't mean Apple agrees with you.

What we DO know for a fact is Apple like to differentiate between consumer and pro lines, and Apple has never been one to put the latest chips into the iMac or Mac Mini level machines - and I don't see either of that changing.

I guess your point is that Apple agrees with YOU, right?

ShnikeJSB
Aug 11, 2006, 01:40 PM
In other words, G5 PowerBooks next tuesday ;)

Man, I tell ya... 2 years+ ago when I wanted a new laptop, that's ALL I ever heard... I think Apple should build a one-off G5 laptop just to appease us crazy people in here, LOL! It would be an awesome tip-of-the-hat to us, don'tcha think? ;)

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 01:40 PM
I guess your point is that Apple agrees with YOU, right?

No, my point is that I think Apple will continue to do what it's always done, and that those arguing that they'll suddenly treat product announcements differently just because their chips are now supplied by Intel are only speculating.

I admit I'm speculating as well, but my speculation is based on Apple's known prior history, while other's is based on their wet dreams of Core 2 Duo MacBooks, which they've been wanting since before the *original* MacBook was even announced, and which they'll probably complain about once they're actually released anyway, and hold off for the next gen chips.

::sigh::

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 01:41 PM
Man, I tell ya... 2 years+ ago when I wanted a new laptop, that's ALL I ever heard... I think Apple should build a one-off G5 laptop just to appease us crazy people in here, LOL! It would be an awesome tip-of-the-hat to us, don'tcha think? ;)

Yeah, and it would really put all those heat issues MB and MBP owners are complaining about in perspective...

ShnikeJSB
Aug 11, 2006, 01:45 PM
Yeah, and it would really put all those heat issues MB and MBP owners are complaining about in perspective...

HAHAHA!!! So true...

"And only 14 pounds and 3-inches thin!"

:p

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 02:00 PM
No, my point is that I think Apple will continue to do what it's always done, and that those arguing that they'll suddenly treat product announcements differently just because their chips are now supplied by Intel are only speculating.


Well, they released the Macbook with nothing more than a press release and an update to their site. This product had a complete make over and looks almost nothing like the iBook it replaced. Why no special event? I think things WILL be changing due to the Intel transition. They will have to treat announcements differently. No more will there be a year between speed increases etc.

boncellis
Aug 11, 2006, 02:05 PM
I've said all along the imac will get conroe. With woodcrest in the mac pro, I'd say it's pretty well guaranteed. The imac only got a laptop processor because it was the only choice. From here on out it'll get the desktop processor it deserves.

I also think the macbook will get merom sooner rather than later. The two lines will still be differentiated by size, screen res, casing, backlit keys, dedicated graphics, and express card slot. The macbook needs to compete against PC laptops, not the macbook pro. The processors will pretty similar on the G4 laptops before intel (1.33/1.42 for the ibook, 1.5/1.67 for the powerbook) and yet there were still plenty of compelling reasons to go for the powerbook. Same thing still applies.

Your rock solid reasoning has won me over. I wasn't sure about what chips would be used where, but I think you have me convinced.

I just hope the Mini sees an upgrade relatively soon inasmuch as the phantom mid-range tower has yet to materialize. I may have to break down and get the Yonah one.

roland.g
Aug 11, 2006, 02:16 PM
True, but 64-bit in a 32-bit envrionment is still going to run only at 32-bit or not at all. But mlrproducts is right, they do have a while.

it doesn't matter if you have a 64-bit processor and OS, you have to have 4Gb of RAM to run in 64-bit.

21stcenturykid
Aug 11, 2006, 02:16 PM
I wish apple would just hurry up and get the MBP upgraded i need one within the next 4/5 weeks before uni starts!! an with regards to redesign im all for it aslong as they dont put an integrated keyboard in like the MB cos its rubbish!!

so heres hoping for next tuesday!!!:D

hewsthat
Aug 11, 2006, 02:21 PM
The iMac was the first to go to intel.


I'm holding off for the new MBP because from what I've seen, the current ones still have issues. It was Apple's first Mac to go to Intel, and although they've made some changes, it's still "first generation". I'm hoping the next revision will have more than just a processor upgrade.



Correction, your both wrong...they both went intel at the same time, January 12, 2006

seand
Aug 11, 2006, 02:22 PM
it doesn't matter if you have a 64-bit processor and OS, you have to have 4Gb of RAM to run in 64-bit.

This is completely ridiculous. While one of the benefits of 64 bit chips is that it makes it easier to have >4 gig of RAM (and it's possible to get past that barrier with 32 bit chips as well), you are still "running in 64 bit" when using a 64 bit chip and OS.

teerexx52
Aug 11, 2006, 02:23 PM
I wish apple would just hurry up and get the MBP upgraded i need one within the next 4/5 weeks before uni starts!! an with regards to redesign im all for it aslong as they dont put an integrated keyboard in like the MB cos its rubbish!!

so heres hoping for next tuesday!!!:D
What about the keyboard don't you like? I have MacBook and my wife has a MacBook Pro. Both seem very good. I do miss the lighted keyboard though. Almost went and bough a Pro today with Glossy screen but afraid of Sept. updates:)

Randall
Aug 11, 2006, 02:27 PM
it doesn't matter if you have a 64-bit processor and OS, you have to have 4Gb of RAM to run in 64-bit.

hahaha hilarious :D Stop you're killing me.

~Shard~
Aug 11, 2006, 02:27 PM
it doesn't matter if you have a 64-bit processor and OS, you have to have 4Gb of RAM to run in 64-bit.

No you don't. :rolleyes: You can take advanatge of having more than 4 GB of RAM when running in a 64-bit environment, but you do not need it. The above statement is completely incorrect. :cool:

milo
Aug 11, 2006, 02:34 PM
Cheaper per chip price. Factor in all the design changes that would have to be made, and it might not be in the long run.

And those design changes still have to be made in the future if you want to run kentsfield. Since those changes are inevitable, why not make them sooner and take advantage of cheaper chips earlier?

No, my point is that I think Apple will continue to do what it's always done, and that those arguing that they'll suddenly treat product announcements differently just because their chips are now supplied by Intel are only speculating.

Since the intel switch, apple has ALREADY broken away from "what they've always done". We saw a speed bump in MPB before it even shipped, and another bump not long after that.

Correction, your both wrong...they both went intel at the same time, January 12, 2006

No, they were *announced* at the same time. iMac shipped immediately, MBP shipped weeks later. So the intel iMacs did arrive first.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 11, 2006, 02:38 PM
Could "Conroe" ever make its way into a Mac Mini? Or would it just cause the mini to melt into a metalic puddle on the desk?

If they made it a little taller it should be easy-peasy for Apple to fit the necessary cooling. Hey, if they're making it taller, they could add a 3.5" Hard Drive which is much cheaper than laptop hard drives and we could finally get a 500GB Mini.

21stcenturykid
Aug 11, 2006, 02:38 PM
What about the keyboard don't you like? I have MacBook and my wife has a MacBook Pro. Both seem very good. I do miss the lighted keyboard though. Almost went and bough a Pro today with Glossy screen but afraid of Sept. updates:)

I dont dont like the size and feel of the keys compared to my m8s MBP 15" and my normal apple keyboard with my iMac which both feel great so im hoping they dont change that, im not dissing the MB but i just prefer the pro's feel at the moment and dont want that to change (espesially the lighted keys :D). yeah im gna go for the gloss i think.

digitalbiker
Aug 11, 2006, 02:39 PM
What about the keyboard don't you like? I have MacBook and my wife has a MacBook Pro. Both seem very good. I do miss the lighted keyboard though. Almost went and bough a Pro today with Glossy screen but afraid of Sept. updates:)

I think that whoever is complaining about the MacBook keyboard has never used one. I personally like it much better than the old PB and new MBP.

The whole keyboard is firmer. Keys have larger area to press. The individual keys are not as mushy feeling as the flimsy keys of the PB and the keys don't come close to touching the screen.

Backlighting would be only ehancement that the new keyboard could use.

I would love to see a new MBP design. I would like to see a new display, go back to hard plastic like the MB, eliminate open latch, new keyboard like MB, FW 800, Merom core 2 duo, X1900 GPU, redesigned case with removable HD, battery, and easy memory access like the MB.:D :D :D :D

ender78
Aug 11, 2006, 02:44 PM
what are the apple guys gonna' do with the mac mini! Im in the market for one w/edu discount! I'm waiting boys! What processors would you think the mac mini will adopt? End of core solo?

I think the mini is the worst performing machine they have on the market [it does use the slowest processors]. I am expecting an accross the board upgrade [MB, MBP, iMac, mini]. At the very least, higher end Yonas in the mini. I can also see Apple making the mini a BTO model like the MBP. That really simplifies the order process for the customer.

21stcenturykid
Aug 11, 2006, 02:44 PM
I think that whoever is complaining about the MacBook keyboard has never used one.
I would love to see a new MBP design. I would like to see a new display, go back to hard plastic like the MB, eliminate open latch, new keyboard like MB, FW 800, Merom core 2 duo, X1900 GPU, redesigned case with removable HD, battery, and easy memory access like the MB.:D :D :D :D

Im not saying its bad just sayin i prefer the present keyboard. i have actually used a macbook both in store and a friends who just recently got one. and i used that for a gd hour or so and i just couldnt get used to it but im sure i could over time i guess.

oh and the 17"MBP allready has FW800 fyi. which is the model i would be buying.

and please god not hard plastic! the metal look is absolute beauty!!!! its always looked amazing!

hewsthat
Aug 11, 2006, 02:45 PM
And those design changes still have to be made in the future if you want to run kentsfield. Since those changes are inevitable, why not make them sooner and take advantage of cheaper chips earlier?



Since the intel switch, apple has ALREADY broken away from "what they've always done". We saw a speed bump in MPB before it even shipped, and another bump not long after that.



No, they were *announced* at the same time. iMac shipped immediately, MBP shipped weeks later. So the intel iMacs did arrive first.


i stand corrected. the macbook pros didn't ship till febuary though they could be preordered. The iMacs began shipment in january right after the announcment

sonictonic
Aug 11, 2006, 02:47 PM
Everyone waiting on the Core 2 Duo MacBook needs to get a clue.

It's the same folks who were falling over waiting to WWDC to come so they could order their Core 2 Duo MacBooks after the keynote!

Apple IS NOT going to move the MacBook to a Core 2 Duo until they've updated:

1) MacBook Pro

2) iMac

3) Maybe even Mac Mini, since it's been out forever!

The MacBook is barely three months old. It may get a speed bump and/or price cut soon, but won't get a new chip.

All of you saying Apple has to upgrade it to a Core 2 Duo to complete with Dell, HP, etc - why? Why do they HAVE to? Will they explode if they don't? Will the sun stop shining? Will all the world's puppies die?

Of course they'll upgrade it eventually. That doesn't mean it needs to be upgraded as soon as the chips are available. If you look at other PC maker's sites, most of their machines don't even have the Core Duo chips yet; there's no rush.

You can't claim Apple will inevitable act a certain way now that they're on Intel chips; you don't know that. They have no history of using Intel chips. Just because your bright minds think it would be a good idea to move the MB line to the latest and greatest chip whenever a new one is released by Intel because "that's what the other guys are doing," it doesn't mean Apple agrees with you.

What we DO know for a fact is Apple like to differentiate between consumer and pro lines, and Apple has never been one to put the latest chips into the iMac or Mac Mini level machines - and I don't see either of that changing.


Well said! :)

petteri
Aug 11, 2006, 02:49 PM
And a pony?

Apple gonna start selling ponies!?!?! :eek: I'm gonna be the first to ride one out of my local Apple Store! What is going to be the AppleCare charge on one of these suckers?


Ahh, the joys of waiting for the next new chip.... :p

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 02:55 PM
No more will there be a year between speed increases etc.

Remember, we're almost at 6 months with the Mac Mini, and it's seen neither a chip upgrade nor a speed bump.

breakfastcrew
Aug 11, 2006, 02:57 PM
next month meaning paris.

milo
Aug 11, 2006, 02:58 PM
Remember, we're almost at 6 months with the Mac Mini, and it's seen neither a chip upgrade nor a speed bump.

So it's definitely due for one. You don't really think they'll go a year before it's upgraded, do you?

digitalbiker
Aug 11, 2006, 02:59 PM
Im not saying its bad just sayin i prefer the present keyboard. i have actually used a macbook both in store and a friends who just recently got one. and i used that for a gd hour or so and i just couldnt get used to it but im sure i could over time i guess.

oh and the 17"MBP allready has FW800 fyi. which is the model i would be buying.

and please god not hard plastic! the metal look is absolute beauty!!!! its always looked amazing!

Yes, it does take some getting used to. I have always loved my PB keyboards and when I first tried my wife's MB it was a little weird. But then as I got used to it, I realized that I hit the keys much more acurately and the keyboard was much more tactile and comfortable to use over a long period of time.

I think the metal look is outdated. I loved the look when the original Ti 500 came out and snatched one up. But now, I think they look like every other piece of silver shiny electronic gadget, and somehow it looks cheap.

I also am sick of dealing with finger prints, smears, scratches, etc. etc. that show up like a sore thumb on the case and wrist rest. Also airport reception is still more limited in the metal cases. My wifes Airport gets out much better than my 17 inch G4 1.66 PB.

Plus you can actually survive a drop with a plastic case. The metal case bends or dents. The plastic flexes and comes back.

eenu
Aug 11, 2006, 03:02 PM
So it's definitely due for one. You don't really think they'll go a year before it's upgraded, do you?

I wouldn't say it would be anything noticable!

Probably make the low end one a 1.66 Duo and the top one a 1.8 or 2.0 Duo

jholzner
Aug 11, 2006, 03:04 PM
it doesn't matter if you have a 64-bit processor and OS, you have to have 4Gb of RAM to run in 64-bit.

Not true. From Wikipedia:

A common misconception is that 64-bit architectures are no better than 32-bit architectures unless the computer has more than 4 GB of memory. This is not entirely true:

* Some operating systems reserve portions of process address space for OS use, effectively reducing the total address space available for mapping memory for user programs. For instance, Windows XP DLLs and userland OS components are mapped into each process's address space, leaving only 2 to 3.8 GB (depending on the settings) address space available, even if the computer has 4 GB of RAM. This restriction is not present in 64-bit Windows.
* Memory mapping of files is becoming less useful with 32-bit architectures, especially with the introduction of relatively cheap recordable DVD technology. A 4 GB file is no longer uncommon, and such large files cannot be memory mapped easily to 32-bit architectures; only a region of the file can be mapped into the address space, and to access such a file by memory mapping, those regions will have to be mapped into and out of the address space as needed. This is an issue, as memory mapping remains one of the most efficient disk-to-memory methods, when properly implemented by the OS.

digitalbiker
Aug 11, 2006, 03:05 PM
I wouldn't say it would be anything noticable!

Probably make the low end one a 1.66 Duo and the top one a 1.8 or 2.0 Duo

I think it would be cool if Apple came out with a Mac Mini Pro.

Merom core 2 duo, X1900 GPU, slightly enlarged case, Sata 500GB HD, FW 800, SuperDrive. All for under $1250.00

mashinhead
Aug 11, 2006, 03:06 PM
Merom vs. Yonah Benchmarks (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808)

Cry me a river if you're using Yonah. Unless you need 64-bit or are encoding video/audio 24/7 on your laptop the gains aren't paramount.


interesting article. thanks. I kinda feel better now (just bought a macbook). From what i'm reading you won't be able to take full advantage of the processing power til santa rosa comes out (early 2007). And at that point it will use more power reducing the hight bat. life expectations. And the low voltage chips aren't due out til that time too. So after reading this, i say if you really want a good merom working computer, get one in jan. Or forget the wait and get one now. But sept doesn't look like a good time to buy then.

SeaFox
Aug 11, 2006, 03:12 PM
If the Keynote is on the first day of the Expo that would be the 12th.

The iPod offere ends on the 16th, the end of the Paris Expo.

You might have to place your order online as I expect they wouldn't be in stores by then, but you [we] should be all set.

I wouldn't hold my breath, the Back to School iPod promo has always been a bait to help clear out old inventory. They won't make it available to buy, online or off, until after the promo ends.

milo
Aug 11, 2006, 03:17 PM
I wouldn't say it would be anything noticable!

Probably make the low end one a 1.66 Duo and the top one a 1.8 or 2.0 Duo

Doubling the cores would certianly be noticable on the low end! And even a modest bump is better than no bump for a year. But I still think a bigger bump than that is likely, chances of something like a merom on the high end are pretty good.

spencecb
Aug 11, 2006, 03:17 PM
I find it incredibly hard to believe that Apple intends to maintain the closeness in specs that are currently present between the MacBook Pro and MacBook. It makes more sense for Apple to move the MBP to the Core2 Duo and leave the MacBook to the Yonah. This leaves two more speed bumps for the MacBook. First 10 2.16, then to 2.33, all the while leaving the MBP time to advance with the Merom so it can gain momentum against the MacBook.

digitalbiker
Aug 11, 2006, 03:22 PM
I find it incredibly hard to believe that Apple intends to maintain the closeness in specs that are currently present between the MacBook Pro and MacBook. It makes more sense for Apple to move the MBP to the Core2 Duo and leave the MacBook to the Yonah. This leaves two more speed bumps for the MacBook. First 10 2.16, then to 2.33, all the while leaving the MBP time to advance with the Merom so it can gain momentum against the MacBook.

I also think Apple will leave the MB with Yonah. They will want product differentiation and price differentiation.

So I think they will drop the price to <$1000.00 for MB and re-design MBP to provide enhancements similar to MB but with faster Merom CPU's and higher price than MB.

Mgkwho
Aug 11, 2006, 03:24 PM
So what is there to expect before MWSF?

Well, new iPods, for one:

Full Screen Video iPod, possibly with accompanying new iTunes service.
Redesigned-nano + upgraded
Updated shuffle (finally)

Also, new hardware:

New chips for MBP + possible case redesign
New chips for iMac too

---

Does anyone think that this is a bit much to announce at Paris?

But all of it, I think everyone would agree, has to come out before the Christmas shopping season.

So lets break it down into two events, presuming that its too much for Paris.

Paris will either see hardware (i hope) or iPod upgrades.

Then, in late October I'm guessing, in time for the holidays, the new iPods will be released. They will also therefore beat Zune to the market.

---

The reason I think hardware will come first is because its been almost 10 months since the MBP and iMac were revised/came out. (17" and iMac for education doesn't count). the iPods typically wait a whole year for a refresh, usually around September.

However, I think the hardware takes precedent, because that is what people want more overall. Plus, its 55% of Apple's income.

-=|Mgkwho

eenu
Aug 11, 2006, 03:25 PM
and higher price than MB.

Jesus! How much more expensive do you want it to be! the price diff is already almost £500 from top whitebook to bottom MBP!

eenu
Aug 11, 2006, 03:29 PM
So what is there to expect before MWSF?

Well, new iPods, for one:

Full Screen Video iPod, possibly with accompanying new iTunes service.
Redesigned-nano + upgraded
Updated shuffle (finally)

Also, new hardware:

New chips for MBP + possible case redesign
New chips for iMac too

-=|Mgkwho

The MBP will be done on a random day. Its a 'Pro' model andParis is more for the consumer goods like iMacs and iPods etc

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 03:35 PM
So what is there to expect before MWSF?


I think THAT'S when we might get the Core 2 Duo in the MacBook and Mac Mini.

Until then, it'll just be speed bumps of the existing chips.

And before then, we'll see the MacBook Pros and iMacs move to the Core 2 Duo.

digitalbiker
Aug 11, 2006, 03:36 PM
Jesus! How much more expensive do you want it to be! the price diff is already almost £500 from top whitebook to bottom MBP!

You are quoting out of context. The original post was about lowering the MB cost and retaining the Yonah cpu.

The MBP would move to Merom and stay near the same price. Therefore the result would be a larger price differentiation and a larger performance differentiation.

manic
Aug 11, 2006, 03:42 PM
If they made it a little taller it should be easy-peasy for Apple to fit the necessary cooling. Hey, if they're making it taller, they could add a 3.5" Hard Drive which is much cheaper than laptop hard drives and we could finally get a 500GB Mini.
this is pretty well thought out. I can see it happening

mutantteenager
Aug 11, 2006, 03:47 PM
While no hard insider information exists pointing to the specs of the new machines, currently Merom tops out at 2.33 GHz, so it is not unreasonable to believe that Apple will use the 2.33 GHz chip in its MacBook Pro, and slightly slower speeds in its MacBooks. Also of note, Merom being a Core 2 Duo chip has architectural advances over Core Duo ("Yonah") such as 64-bit support and a 4 MB L2 Cache in higher end models.

I would be happy with the *real* replacement for the 12" Powerbook. Can't work with that gloss screen, and can't bear the integrated graphics. Apple need to get real if they want professionals like photographers to buy a new laptop. :confused:

spencecb
Aug 11, 2006, 03:47 PM
Does anyone think that this is a bit much to announce at Paris?

But all of it, I think everyone would agree, has to come out before the Christmas shopping season.

So lets break it down into two events, presuming that its too much for Paris.

Paris will either see hardware (i hope) or iPod upgrades.

Then, in late October I'm guessing, in time for the holidays, the new iPods will be released. They will also therefore beat Zune to the market.

-=|Mgkwho

I response to your question of if we think this is too much for Apple to announce at the Paris Expo, I think we have to keep the following in mind: Apple has entered an entirely new ballpark with the switch to Intel. No longer can our big gains in performance and new products only come to us at WWDC, MWSF, and MWParis.

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Apple will adopt a new strategy for advancing their hardware. We will start seeing speed bumps and other upgrades announced quietly on Apple's website. We have already seen this with the MBP.

If Apple wants to keep their rock-star like image of when they release new products or major upgrades to their product line, they will adopt more special events like we had this past year, and a couple in 2005. For example: The introduction of the iMac G5 w/Front Row and iSight or when the Mac Mini went Intel. I believe Apple will make better use of these types of events.

The big dogs (WWDC, MWSF, MWParis) will remain launch pads for new/updated products, but will not be the only source from now on.

With the switch to Intel, we have entered a very aggressive world, and a much larger range of dedicated processors for different product lines. It is quite exciting.

daneoni
Aug 11, 2006, 03:49 PM
I Love My Powerbook! :D

digitalbiker
Aug 11, 2006, 03:55 PM
The MBP will be done on a random day. Its a 'Pro' model andParis is more for the consumer goods like iMacs and iPods etc

iPod announcements are out for Paris. There is no way Apple is going to announce anything related to itunes, ipods, or Apple Music Store in Paris, given all the law suits and Frances' stand on Apple's DRM.

PB have been updated at Paris Expo in the past.

Therefore I see MacPro, MacMini, and iMac announcements at Paris.

iPod, iTunes, iphone announcements at a special event in October.

MacBook, MacPro, Leopard preview and date, etc. at MW 2007.
:D

thogs_cave
Aug 11, 2006, 03:56 PM
Supposedly about 20% faster at the same clock speed, plus they are 64 bit, but the benefits of that in these machines is somewhat debatable. It's a nice upgrade, but not a huge one. [...] But that "goodness" mostly looks like greater memory access, which is a moot point in a machine with two ram slots. Most of the "goodness" isn't anything a laptop user will notice.

Which is really the point. It's not a quantum leap like the MacBook was over the iBook. (Having moved from one to the other, I can vouch for that.) I doubt I'd really notice the difference for 99.9% of what I do.

milo
Aug 11, 2006, 03:57 PM
I would be happy with the *real* replacement for the 12" Powerbook. Can't work with that gloss screen, and can't bear the integrated graphics. Apple need to get real if they want professionals like photographers to buy a new laptop. :confused:

What "pro" apps did you try to run that didn't run well on the integrated graphics?

thogs_cave
Aug 11, 2006, 04:05 PM
I would be happy with the *real* replacement for the 12" Powerbook. Can't work with that gloss screen, and can't bear the integrated graphics. Apple need to get real if they want professionals like photographers to buy a new laptop. :confused:
Huh? I'll give that the glossy screen is a matter of taste (I thought I'd hate it, I ended up loving it), but:

1) The integrated gfx are totally fine for photo work. It's all 2D, and the 2D speeds are very good. It falls over only on heavy gaming. There is nothing wrong with integrated graphics for the majority of "professional" users.

2) The MacBook is a "consumer" model. The Pro is for the "Professional", although I'm some sort of a "professional", and my MacBook suits me just fine. (I liked the form factor and the keyboard.) Stuffed with 2G of RAM and a 100G 7.2K drive it runs OS X, Windows & CentOS (via Parallels desktop) just fine. It's like a digital Swiss Army knife - I haven't found much it can't do reasonably well. :o

jcampa
Aug 11, 2006, 04:22 PM
Dates!! I just want to know dates!! Not until september, please Apple, release the MBP with Merom processors this month!!

And make it available inmediatly, that same day!!

That's all I'm asking for, no more....

Unspeaked
Aug 11, 2006, 04:24 PM
The MacBook is a "consumer" model. The Pro is for the "Professional", although I'm some sort of a "professional", and my MacBook suits me just fine. (I liked the form factor and the keyboard.) Stuffed with 2G of RAM and a 100G 7.2K drive it runs OS X, Windows & CentOS (via Parallels desktop) just fine. It's like a digital Swiss Army knife - I haven't found much it can't do reasonably well. :o

I second this opinion.

There's nothing I've hit that a MacBook can't handle as well as I was hoping for, and most things it does even quicker than I thought it would.

And I'm in that "sort of pro" catagory, as well.

21stcenturykid
Aug 11, 2006, 04:43 PM
Dates!! I just want to know dates!! Not until september, please Apple, release the MBP with Merom processors this month!!

And make it available inmediatly, that same day!!

That's all I'm asking for, no more....

I agree with u there man!!! Hurry up apple :P

ender78
Aug 11, 2006, 04:49 PM
I think it would be cool if Apple came out with a Mac Mini Pro.

Merom core 2 duo, X1900 GPU, slightly enlarged case, Sata 500GB HD, FW 800, SuperDrive. All for under $1250.00


You want a $300-500 video card in a $1200 machine. Lets be realistic. BTO option yes, built in HELL NO ! The 500GB HD is also overkill. I would expect your config to be $1500-1800. I would like to see a $1199-1399 base price for some sort of tower. One Superdrive Bay, two HD bays [I full, one empty]. PCI Express with one or two empty slots.

3CCD
Aug 11, 2006, 04:55 PM
digitalbiker thats not realistic. Figure a machine like that would cost you something around $1799

KingYaba
Aug 11, 2006, 04:55 PM
IT's official, I am waiting untill next month.

mr.barkan
Aug 11, 2006, 05:16 PM
sorry if I'm repeating someone else's quote, didn't get to read all posts.

Just wanna give my 2 cents here:

1 - Everyone seems to be forgetting we are talking about INTEL here. Not just apple. So the rabbit hole is far more deeper. While Apple used to stick with what they got, back in the ol' Power days... there were no other "PC/Laptop" equivalent to Apple's lineup, as far as OS and app. But these days where people are talking about OSX86 and all... the other companies will be shipping Meroms, Conroes and other sorts of "Cities"... Intel doesn't really care about the Mac Mania. Because OSX is not "that" exclusive anymore. Yes, I do hate using Windows, BUT, the new laptops from Alienware, Dell, HP etc... all come with a glossy "VISTA READY" logo.

2 - Apple should realise that since they lauched the first MBP, so we all can expect more frequent updates on all Apple lineup. Because Steve's Jeans want's to be new (and news) first, always, right?

3 - If Merom, etc.. are 32bit, then 10.4.7 is 64bit? :confused:

I guess thats all for now... give me your thots about all this.
If I repeated someone, then please ignore. ;)

cyberdogl2
Aug 11, 2006, 05:25 PM
I'm definitely holding out for Merom now since it seems like it's coming within the month. Customers Christmas shopping will compare laptops across all brands and if Apple isn't sporting a Merom they're gonna lose a lot of laptop sales. And I'm willing to wait since OS X 10.5 is even more 64-bit than 10.4 is, I'd be nice to have a 64-bit processor instead of a 32-bit processor running a 64-bit OS (yes i know 10.5 will run on 32-bit processors), although the overall benefits are up to discussion.

So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna buy the memory today (long story I have to spend within the week 200 dollars store credit at CompUSA) and put it in the Macbook when I get it, hopefully within the month.

I'm correct in assuming that Yonah and Merom takes the EXACT same type/speed of ram right?

danielwsmithee
Aug 11, 2006, 05:32 PM
Man, I tell ya... 2 years+ ago when I wanted a new laptop, that's ALL I ever heard... I think Apple should build a one-off G5 laptop just to appease us crazy people in here, LOL! It would be an awesome tip-of-the-hat to us, don'tcha think? ;)Yeah it would be like twice as thick as the current MBP and they could auction it off to the highest bidder. Here is guessing that some Apple finatic would pay a million dollars for it to display in his gallery.

ender78
Aug 11, 2006, 05:33 PM
I'm definitely holding out for Merom now since it seems like it's coming within the month. Customers Christmas shopping will compare laptops across all brands and if Apple isn't sporting a Merom they're gonna lose a lot of laptop sales. And I'm willing to wait since OS X 10.5 is even more 64-bit than 10.4 is, I'd be nice to have a 64-bit processor instead of a 32-bit processor running a 64-bit OS (yes i know 10.5 will run on 32-bit processors), although the overall benefits are up to discussion.

So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna buy the memory today (long story I have to spend within the week 200 dollars store credit at CompUSA) and put it in the Macbook when I get it, hopefully within the month.

I'm correct in assuming that Yonah and Merom takes the EXACT same type/speed of ram right?


As far as I know there are now only two types of RAM in the lineup. 667 DDR2 in the Mac mini, iMac, MB, MBP and FB-DIMS in the Mac Pro and Intel Xserve. A local dealer I spoke to loves this. It really makes stocking RAM much easier.

Stridder44
Aug 11, 2006, 05:36 PM
Dear God,


I would like this rumor to come true.

Amen.

milo
Aug 11, 2006, 05:43 PM
3 - If Merom, etc.. are 32bit, then 10.4.7 is 64bit? :confused:

10.5 will be 64 bit, 10.4.x is not.

Stridder44
Aug 11, 2006, 06:05 PM
interesting article. thanks. I kinda feel better now (just bought a macbook). From what i'm reading you won't be able to take full advantage of the processing power til santa rosa comes out (early 2007). And at that point it will use more power reducing the hight bat. life expectations. And the low voltage chips aren't due out til that time too. So after reading this, i say if you really want a good merom working computer, get one in jan. Or forget the wait and get one now. But sept doesn't look like a good time to buy then.


Yeah after reading that I realized it's better to buy the refurbished MacBook (for less) and then upgrade again in the near future (Sadly, I can't wait)

dhunt
Aug 11, 2006, 06:20 PM
I'm guessing they will be available the 17th. (that's when the major in mac promo ends) a.k.a. get people to buy our old macs by throwing a free nano at them so we can ship our new ones!

Val-kyrie
Aug 11, 2006, 06:30 PM
Why would they give the Macbook that but leave the iMac with the original Core Duo? Doesn't make sense. I would think all three would get it or just the Macbook Pro.

No one said the iMac won't get the Conroe Core 2 Duo chip; just that MBP and MB will get Merom--I also expect the Mac Mini to receive a dual-core Merom. WWDC is for developers; Paris, for more consumer-oriented things. I think the big announcement at Paris will be that all of Apple's lineup will be 64 bit with a simultaneous unveiling of updated iMacs, Mac Minis, MBPs, and MBs--though I still wonder about a new form factor for the MBPs. If not at Paris, then I expect a new form factor with the debut of the Santa Rosa chipset and Leopard next Spring.

081440
Aug 11, 2006, 06:35 PM
And please, for the love of all things holy, retire the Powerbook G5 "joke". It never was funny and it certainly isn't funny now.


THANK YOU!! I COMPLETELY AGREE!!!! :D

teerexx52
Aug 11, 2006, 06:52 PM
I dont dont like the size and feel of the keys compared to my m8s MBP 15" and my normal apple keyboard with my iMac which both feel great so im hoping they dont change that, im not dissing the MB but i just prefer the pro's feel at the moment and dont want that to change (espesially the lighted keys :D). yeah im gna go for the gloss i think.
I agree the pro has a nice feel to it. I am really torn with the idea of selling my MacBook and getting a glossy base Pro but it would be a step down in some regards. I put a 100gb 7200 HD in this MacBook as well as 2gb ram. Base Pro has an 80GB 5400. I like the glossy and saw a Pro with it and really loved it. Just can't make up my mind so I sit tight. Of couse there are the rumors of processor upgrades next month too

-x-
Aug 11, 2006, 07:31 PM
I also expect the Mac Mini to receive a dual-core Merom.

That may not be true since the mini is suppose to be cheap. The cheapest Conroe is $60 less then the cheapest meron.

I wonder however if the engineers can do it. Lets see what happens.

aye5882
Aug 11, 2006, 08:08 PM
i thought i read somewhere that you needed like 4 gazillion gigs of ram to actually run 64 bit programs... so wouldn't merom be more for bragging rights than actual usability?

i've been waiting since may for merom to come out so i can buy a mbp... but now i'm actually thinking of waiting til santa rosa comes out... when does it come out btw? i know its sometime next year... anyone know if its like jan/feb?
and it would be nice to see a new enclosure when the santa rosa chips come out... :D

cyberdogl2
Aug 11, 2006, 08:21 PM
Merom isn't just bragging rights you should check out the comparison in the link that somebody provided. It's about 10% faster for the same price and power consumption. And the next generation of Front Row might take advtange of the 64-bitness.

Also, I plan on booting Vista with it also, which has a 64-bit version if/when it comes out next year.

rosalindavenue
Aug 11, 2006, 08:24 PM
I just read this whole thread (yeah, big Friday night for me) and I can't believe that there is NOT ONE POST about the repeatedly documented fact that manufacturer rumors from Asustek and Quanta in China are ALWAYS B.S. ! There has never been a decent manufacturer-based rumor in the 4 years I've been an apple rumor reader; the track record of these rumors makes macosrumors.com look reliable by comparison.

Notwithstanding the flimsy sources, however, I agree that Yonah is dead as a doornail and that apple will move to merom in all notebooks; all the other manufacturers are going to anyway...

aye5882
Aug 11, 2006, 08:43 PM
Merom isn't just bragging rights you should check out the comparison in the link that somebody provided. It's about 10% faster for the same price and power consumption. And the next generation of Front Row might take advtange of the 64-bitness.

Also, I plan on booting Vista with it also, which has a 64-bit version if/when it comes out next year.

well, i know there was some marginal increase in processing speed but i'm talking about actually running 64bit programs. i thought you need alot more horsepower to run 64bit programs than whats currently offered... maybe i was just tired and totally misread an article a couple of weeks ago.

thogs_cave
Aug 11, 2006, 09:36 PM
well, i know there was some marginal increase in processing speed but i'm talking about actually running 64bit programs. i thought you need alot more horsepower to run 64bit programs than whats currently offered... maybe i was just tired and totally misread an article a couple of weeks ago.

Actually, no. Remember, 64-bit is only new to the consumer stuff. I've been running 64-bit UNIX applications for over 8 years. 64-bit UNIX has been around even longer than that. It's not a matter of "horsepower" (by today's standards, a 167MHz UltraSPARC I is kinda slow...), but of the usefulness of a 64-bit address space, not only for real memory, but for virtual. As well as higher precision, etc. (Assuming the CPU is true 64-bit and not limited by a smaller external address bus.)

Hmmm... There's actually a good entry on it in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

That might help you some more.

Jvhowube
Aug 11, 2006, 09:40 PM
I'm sure many people have asked this throughout the thread already, but is it worth it for me, if I've been waiting all summer, to continue waiting possibly into the start of school (I'm a freshman entering college) for the release of Merom in MB/MBP? My classes start Sept. 11th, but I don't know how long I'd survive without a computer.

Do you guys foresee the release of Merom before that date?:confused:

Multimedia
Aug 11, 2006, 09:44 PM
Oblivious to this thread all day long, I restate my previous predictions:

September 12 Paris Apple Expo Keynote Introduction Merom MacBooks - same speeds, MacBook Pros 2.33GHz top speed.:D

Dual Clovertown 8 Core Mac Pro January 9, 2007 San Francisco MacWorld Expo SteveNote :pI'm sure many people have asked this throughout the thread already, but is it worth it for me, if I've been waiting all summer, to continue waiting possibly into the start of school (I'm a freshman entering college) for the release of Merom in MB/MBP? My classes start Sept. 11th, but I don't know how long I'd survive without a computer.

Do you guys foresee the release of Merom before that date?:confused:No, a few hours later. You must wait for it because that Merom MacBook or MacBook Pro will take you all the way through your college years way better than the current Yonah models will. When Leopard ships next Spring, the 64-bit capabilities of Merom will blossom way more than than the 32-bit limit on the Yonah platforms will. So hang in there and know they are coming real soon after September 11 - like the next day. :)

When I was in college we used spiral notebooks and typewriters. Can you not take notes by hand for a few days? Spiral notebooks are very inexpensive - like 50¢. Will that be ok for a few days?

Jvhowube
Aug 11, 2006, 09:56 PM
my little brother has some crappy paper-thin sharp laptop that was given to him. like ten gigs, no cd drive, it gets the job done. i might use that until the release of Merom. its funny cause everyone has already bought their laptops for school. so oblivious, so sad. "good things come to those who wait."

Multimedia
Aug 11, 2006, 10:06 PM
This is good news for future Macbook owners. I'm interested in when the iMac will get Conroe. A friend of mine is switching from Windows and wants the iMac but is waiting for Conroe in the iMac. I only hope they go with the desktop processor in the iMac and not Merom since he's not interested in the mobile processor in his desktop.Why would they give the Macbook that but leave the iMac with the original Core Duo? Doesn't make sense. I would think all three would get it or just the Macbook Pro.Well, hopefully the iMac will be updated sooner than the portables. Conroe is out and available in quantities now where as Merom won't be as available in quantities until the end of this month.I believe there's a an entirely new iMac in the works. The current design can't handle the heat Conroe will want to throw at it. And the Kentsfield 4-core processor will want even better cooling. Currently the iMac looks like it has a G5 inside. Apple doesn't like their Macs to look the same over too long a time.

Here's the Conroe processors I hope Apple will use in the all new iMac:

Core 2 Duo E6700 - 2.67 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) 20 $1699 & 23" $1999
Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.40 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) 17" $1299

In January I hope they will offer a Kentsfield 4 core option in the 20 & 23" models - cause they are bigger and can cool Kentsfield much better than in the 17" enclosure - for an additional $500-$800 - pure guessing cause I don't know Kentsfield pricing yet.

Same is true for the MacBook Pro. It needs to go Black Anodized Aluminum with an easy HD swap out capability like the MacBook which is a radical redesign of the iBook. I think that the new iMac will follow on the heels of the MacBooks intro in September as well. Might even happen in Paris same day as MacBooks - September 12. :)

I feel so strongly about that MacBook Easy Switch HD feature, that I will not buy a MacBook Pro without it and may resort to the MacBook if they don't put that capability in the Pro model. That's a Pro feature in the MacBook. Makes the MacBook sort of a MacBook Pro Jr. Also note that the next MacBook will have a much better Integrated Graphics chipset that goes with Merom that can handle 3-D very well.

Multimedia
Aug 11, 2006, 10:16 PM
It would be cool for them to keep the yonah in the low-end MacBook. That way with the price drop they could get back to a $999 entry-level notebook.

Merom definitely in the Black Macbook though, if this is true.

Great News! Still hoping for a case redesign in the MBP for mine. :)You can buy the Yonah entry MacBook on the SAVE page of the Apple online store for $949 already. Been so for months. They are not going to keep putting Yonah in anything. Merom cost them the same money. No incentive to keep putting 32-bit processors in anything any longer than they must because the future is Leopard and Leopard is all about full 64-bit support.

MacBook Pro is very likely redesigned for Merom including that easy HD swap out capability that's already in the MacBook Pro Jr. - I mean MacBook. :eek: :D

Here's how I see Apple using Merom:

MacBook Pro gets these two:

Core 2 Duo T7600 - 2.33 GHz (4 MiB L2, 667 MHz FSB) 15" Top $2499 & 17" $2799
Core 2 Duo T7400 - 2.16 GHz (4 MiB L2, 667 MHz FSB) 15" Bottom $1999

MacBook Gets these two:

Core 2 Duo T7200 - 2.00 GHz (4 MiB L2, 667 MHz FSB) Superdrive Black $1499 & White $1299
Core 2 Duo T5600 - 1.83 GHz (2 MiB L2, 667 MHz FSB) Combo White $1099

Mac mini gets these two:

Core 2 Duo T5600 - 1.83 GHz (2 MiB L2, 667 MHz FSB) Superdrive $799
Core 2 Duo T5500 - 1.66 GHz (2 MiB L2, 667 MHz FSB) Combo $599

I wish they would stop selling Combo Opticals. They could use Single Layer Superdrives as a differentiator instead.

Chef Medeski
Aug 11, 2006, 10:28 PM
I'm not interested in purchasing a laptop yet... I was waiting for merom to make its way into a MB.... but also for Leopard so I don't have to pay $100 to upgrade in 4 months.

But, I also think the real update is with the Santa Rosa chipset... faster FSB... more ram.... 802.11N!!!!

Thats a big update compared to this.

I'm watching this though to see how quickly they update their models after a new product is announced, I mean its no longer like PPC days when they would be sitting waiting for the chip to arrive ... late....delayed...and generally just missing.... now they have to keep their computer up to date with the chips.

A quicker roll-out really would ease my mind, since that hopefully shows that Santa Rosa will be equally swiftly doled out.

Merom
802.11n
Blu-ray
Leopard
HD screen
7 hr battery for bare min. use

Thats the sweet spot. The last two would be icing on the cake... that would be wonderfully sweet from the blu-ray...

but hey... I think that will really show that apple is on the forefront of technology ... the EXTREME EDGE...

DHagan4755
Aug 11, 2006, 10:32 PM
I believe there a an entirely new iMac in the works. The current design can't handle the heat Conroe will want to throw at it. And the Kentsfield 4-core processor will want even better cooling. Currently the iMac looks like it has a G5 inside. Apple doesn't like their Macs to look the same over too long a time.

I disagree with you on this. I agree with you on the MBP. Apple just revved the specs of their displays and they also released the education iMac. I think the iMac is a homerun for Apple on the desktop. Obviously the strongest Apple product right now is the MacBook. But while I think you're right on with the MBP, I think they will find a way to update the iMac for new, faster processors while retaining the current design/enclosure. Even if it has Merom inside. After all they could rev it to Merom 2.1 and 2.3 and some nice new features and I don't think many people will complain. (Alright some will complain, they always do, but that's beside the point).

I would bet Conroe is the single processor option for Mac Pros to fill out the mid-range desktop line. The Mac Pro starts at $2,499 and that's way too expensive. I'm thinking there's going to be something to fill the gap between $1,499 and $2,499. That's where Conroe comes in.

mr.barkan
Aug 11, 2006, 10:36 PM
i thought i read somewhere that you needed like 4 gazillion gigs of ram to actually run 64 bit programs... so wouldn't merom be more for bragging rights than actual usability?

i've been waiting since may for merom to come out so i can buy a mbp... but now i'm actually thinking of waiting til santa rosa comes out...

If you keep waiting next gens you'll wait your whole life!! =)
I know it sucks but I agree that this next MBP with Merom is a good buy for the next 3 months...

I guess it just varies on your needs... I mean, I have to buy a laptop from aug/27 till aug/31 for this work I'm doing.. if the rumors are strong, maybe I'll buy some compaq 64bit 600-700 laptop(amd), then sell it as soon as the new MBP comes out... i dunno... just speculating... It's going to be a hard week for me... hate when I need things that don't just depend on me... buying a 1st gen a week before 2nd gen comes out... the worst thing you can do in Computer market.... =PPP

Multimedia
Aug 11, 2006, 10:49 PM
I disagree with you on this. I agree with you on the MBP. Apple just revved the specs of their displays and they also released the education iMac. I think the iMac is a homerun for Apple on the desktop. Obviously the strongest Apple product right now is the MacBook. But while I think you're right on with the MBP, I think they will find a way to update the iMac for new, faster processors while retaining the current design/enclosure. Even if it has Merom inside. After all they could rev it to Merom 2.1 and 2.3 and some nice new features and I don't think many people will complain. (Alright some will complain, they always do, but that's beside the point).

I would bet Conroe is the single processor option for Mac Pros to fill out the mid-range desktop line. The Mac Pro starts at $2,499 and that's way too expensive. I'm thinking there's going to be something to fill the gap between $1,499 and $2,499. That's where Conroe comes in.I hope you're right. My scenario is excluding the idea Apple will fill in that sub $2k tower hole they seem to be neglecting a LOT. :eek: Would make a lot of sense for them to simply extend the Mac Pro enclosure down into that space with Conroes. Mac Pro expandability is really fantastic. A Conroe motherboard in that same case would be the ticket. Or a cheaper enclosure with the same expadability capacity would work. I would hate to see them offer a Conroe Mac with less expadability inside.

Multimedia
Aug 11, 2006, 11:17 PM
I'm not interested in purchasing a laptop yet... I was waiting for merom to make its way into a MB.... but also for Leopard so I don't have to pay $100 to upgrade in 4 months.

But, I also think the real update is with the Santa Rosa chipset... faster FSB... more ram.... 802.11N!!!!

Thats a big update compared to this.

I'm watching this though to see how quickly they update their models after a new product is announced, I mean its no longer like PPC days when they would be sitting waiting for the chip to arrive ... late....delayed...and generally just missing.... now they have to keep their computer up to date with the chips.

A quicker roll-out really would ease my mind, since that hopefully shows that Santa Rosa will be equally swiftly doled out.

Merom
802.11n
Blu-ray
Leopard
HD screen
7 hr battery for bare min. use

Thats the sweet spot. The last two would be icing on the cake... that would be wonderfully sweet from the blu-ray...

but hey... I think that will really show that apple is on the forefront of technology ... the EXTREME EDGE...Leopard is in 9 months not 4. And Santa Rosa is in the same 9 months. I like you would rather have Santa Rosa inside with Leopard. I may go minimum Merom MacBook Refurb meanwhile. I fugure they'll hit the SAVE page by November. I think Blu-Ray is way overrated and not likely to get inside for another year if ever.

Anawrahta
Aug 12, 2006, 12:08 AM
I'm sure at the very least the MBP will get the new chips soon (within a month or so). The question is, whether it will get a case redesign/new features. So let's make a list of things you'd like to see happen. Personally I'd like to see:

FW800
DL Superdrive
Swappable HD
Expresscard 54
Case dedesign or material change

I wouldn't be surprised if the engineers were too busy just getting it ready for MacWorld when it debuted to give it a full redesign. Also from what I've read they didn't want to change the appearance too much to make the transition to Intel seamless.

ntnwwnet
Aug 12, 2006, 12:15 AM
If they made it a little taller it should be easy-peasy for Apple to fit the necessary cooling. Hey, if they're making it taller, they could add a 3.5" Hard Drive which is much cheaper than laptop hard drives and we could finally get a 500GB Mini.


But then it wouldn't be a Mac Mini, now would it?


(My first MR post. Ever.)

~Shard~
Aug 12, 2006, 12:41 AM
But then it wouldn't be a Mac Mini, now would it?


(My first MR post. Ever.)

It still would mini be if you were a giant. It all depends on your perspective.

(My 12,070th MR post. Ever.)

:p :cool:

SiliconAddict
Aug 12, 2006, 12:59 AM
I haven't read through all tghe posts but just in case someone hasn't posted it yet...

WAH! My MBP is obsolete! How could Jobs do this to me! :( ;) That being said bring on the quad cores in the MBP's in a couple years. Just when I will be getting ready to upgrade. :D

~Shard~
Aug 12, 2006, 01:05 AM
That being said bring on the quad cores in the MBP's in a couple years. Just when I will be getting ready to upgrade. :D

Sounds like you'll be getting a nice Penryn MBP then! ;) :D :cool:

Multimedia
Aug 12, 2006, 02:32 AM
Sounds like you'll be getting a nice Penryn MBP then! ;) :D :cool:From the Intel Core Microarchitecture Wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture):

Penryn, dual-core, 45 nm shrink of Merom, 3–6 MiB L2

So you think Penryn pairs may be the 4 core mobile solution in 2008?

jibjab kalonji
Aug 12, 2006, 02:43 AM
the name merom is fantastic. it automatically makes this processor cool. no not cool temperature-wise but cool as in, "that jerk over there is kind of cool."

qwerto
Aug 12, 2006, 02:52 AM
sorry if this is a stupid question, but i'm just asking. I just bought a mbp, and now that its too late, i was wondering if i could just pop in a merom processor into my mbp and upgrade the bios? Or is that not possible?

jibjab kalonji
Aug 12, 2006, 02:53 AM
i don't think so. i'm sure apple put some sticky stuff on the processor and the motherboard so that it'll stay there basically forever.

qwerto
Aug 12, 2006, 03:07 AM
i don't think so. i'm sure apple put some sticky stuff on the processor and the motherboard so that it'll stay there basically forever.

dang, i knew it was a long shot. Oh well, time to buy some more ram for my mbp... that will suffice for now

Multimedia
Aug 12, 2006, 03:09 AM
sorry if this is a stupid question, but i'm just asking. I just bought a mbp, and now that its too late, i was wondering if i could just pop in a merom processor into my mbp and upgrade the bios? Or is that not possible?No the processor is soldered to the motherboard directly not in a socket. You have up to 10 days to return it for refund minus a restocking fee. Or sell it right away for even less difference. You can also call Apple and beg a supervisor to let you return it if you're past 10 days. That's how all those refurbs wind up on the SAVE page. :)

gnasher729
Aug 12, 2006, 05:34 AM
I also think Apple will leave the MB with Yonah. They will want product differentiation and price differentiation.

So I think they will drop the price to <$1000.00 for MB and re-design MBP to provide enhancements similar to MB but with faster Merom CPU's and higher price than MB.

To be honest, I bought a MacBook and I am happy with it; it has best price/performance ratio of all the Mac notebooks and I didn't want to spend too much money (just bought it for fun). But if Apple tried to sell a MacBook with Yonah while selling MacBook Pro with Merom, where I know exactly that they could get Merom chips at the same price as Yonahs, just for "product differentiation", I would tell them to stuff it.

gnasher729
Aug 12, 2006, 05:39 AM
If they made it a little taller it should be easy-peasy for Apple to fit the necessary cooling. Hey, if they're making it taller, they could add a 3.5" Hard Drive which is much cheaper than laptop hard drives and we could finally get a 500GB Mini.

When you look at all those manufacturers selling harddisks in a case that fits on top of a MacMini, making it twice as high, Apple might as well sell the whole thing in one case. Call it the "Mac SuperMini".

ChickenSwartz
Aug 12, 2006, 08:49 AM
I think Paris would be a logical time to unveil a new product. That being said, this is "just an upgrade", not a new product (it's not like the MacBooks are moving to Intel for the first time), so perhaps they will receive an update on "any given Tuesday" instead, and Paris will be reserved for something new, for instance a new full-screen touchless iPod. ;) :cool:

I think we will see the upgrade the Tuesday after they have enough supply to meet the demand. These laptops are selling great and they don't want to have to interrupt the supply. I think this is especially true at the stores.

ChickenSwartz
Aug 12, 2006, 08:54 AM
I wouldn't hold my breath, the Back to School iPod promo has always been a bait to help clear out old inventory. They won't make it available to buy, online or off, until after the promo ends.

This promo isn't to clear out Mac inventory, if anything it is to clear out iPod stock. If they hold back the Merom MBP just so I can't the free iPod I would be pissed and they would hear about it.

~Shard~
Aug 12, 2006, 09:11 AM
So you think Penryn pairs may be the 4 core mobile solution in 2008?

Possibly, although if Intel keeps moving along is may more likely end up being Penryn's successor. ;) ;cool:

Zeromus
Aug 12, 2006, 10:22 AM
After ordering a MBP when they were announced and then returning 4 defective units before demanding my money back, I'm going to do the same stupid thing and buy the first Merom MBP I can...

Glutton for punishment? *sigh*

moet_01
Aug 12, 2006, 10:26 AM
If the Keynote is on the first day of the Expo that would be the 12th.

The iPod offere ends on the 16th, the end of the Paris Expo.

You might have to place your order online as I expect they wouldn't be in stores by then, but you [we] should be all set.


If the Mac Book is update before then you are not getting free ipod with it...

mr.barkan
Aug 12, 2006, 10:31 AM
I think we will see the upgrade the Tuesday after they have enough supply to meet the demand. These laptops are selling great and they don't want to have to interrupt the supply. I think this is especially true at the stores.

Are they really selling that great??
Is there anyway to know??

I wonder how much people is waiting for the Merom MBP's.
I mean, in general like a couple o guys said here the ones available today are great. But I use Final Cut Pro ALOT, and I'm sure the 64bit will be VERY useful on that. So for me is worth the wait... as for alot of other Final Cut, Logic Pro, Aperture users...

I'm quite curious about those MBP sales... :rolleyes:

pink-pony115
Aug 12, 2006, 10:44 AM
I'm not holding my breath.

3CCD
Aug 12, 2006, 10:51 AM
I believe there's a an entirely new iMac in the works. The current design can't handle the heat Conroe will want to throw at it. And the Kentsfield 4-core processor will want even better cooling. Currently the iMac looks like it has a G5 inside. Apple doesn't like their Macs to look the same over too long a time.

Here's the Conroe processors I hope Apple will use in the all new iMac:

Core 2 Duo E6700 - 2.67 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) 20 $1699 & 23" $1999
Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.40 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) 17" $1299

In January I hope they will offer a Kentsfield 4 core option in the 20 & 23" models - cause they are bigger and can cool Kentsfield much better than in the 17" enclosure - for an additional $500-$800 - pure guessing cause I don't know Kentsfield pricing yet.

Same is true for the MacBook Pro. It needs to go Black Anodized Aluminum with an easy HD swap out capability like the MacBook which is a radical redesign of the iBook. I think that the new iMac will follow on the heels of the MacBooks intro in September as well. Might even happen in Paris same day as MacBooks - September 12. :)

I feel so strongly about that MacBook Easy Switch HD feature, that I will not buy a MacBook Pro without it and may resort to the MacBook if they don't put that capability in the Pro model. That's a Pro feature in the MacBook. Makes the MacBook sort of a MacBook Pro Jr. Also note that the next MacBook will have a much better Integrated Graphics chipset that goes with Merom that can handle 3-D very well.

A newly redesigned iMac would be great. I agree 100% with you about the switchable HDs. I guess time will only tell. Hey how are those refurb Macs from the "save" page? Do all of Apple's warranties apply and does the unit come in a box as if a new one would come? Might not be a bad idea to save a few dollars and put the other amount towards a new display.

fastlane1588
Aug 12, 2006, 11:08 AM
i think a new mpb w/Black Anodized Aluminum and an easy HD swap out capability would be awsome!

Nuks
Aug 12, 2006, 11:25 AM
Alright, I was planning on getting the 2.0 ghzMacbook W/ 1 gig of ram from the apple education store (canada) for 1460 Canadian. However, I was going to get it before the Nano promotion was up, and therefore, could sell the nano and make back about 260 (or so) Canadian. Is it worth it to wait for Merom, and not make back the 260? What are the benefits of Merom?

Basically, is it worth $260?

EDIT: 2 questions:

1. I think the nano promotion is up September 16. Will they probably be announced before then?
2. If the promotion is up, is it worth the $260?


Thanks.

mr.barkan
Aug 12, 2006, 12:29 PM
i think a new mpb w/Black Anodized Aluminum and an easy HD swap out capability would be awsome!

why does BLACK ANODIZED ALUMINUM sound sooooo good? Tasty, I would say!
:D

Wiki
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodising#Anodized_aluminium)
What was the problem with titanium again???

shadowx
Aug 12, 2006, 01:04 PM
why does BLACK ANODIZED ALUMINUM sound sooooo good? Tasty, I would say!
:D

Wiki
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodising#Anodized_aluminium)
What was the problem with titanium again???

Black Anodized Aluminum (oooohh, make mine brushed) would be freakin' sweet!!! And with the black Ipods and Macbooks... never say never!

50548
Aug 12, 2006, 01:40 PM
I am totally happy with my iMac G5 2.0, and I hardly need notebooks in my current job (my trusty iBook G3 still chugs along pretty well with Tiger)...

But I have to admit that, if we see new MBs or MBPs (12" perhaps??) on Paris Expo days, I would be glad to burn some Swiss Francs in no time...for me the specs would have to be the following:

- Merom chips;
- dedicated GPU with at least 128Mb;
- glossy/normal screen options;
- Superdrive;
- BT/AE/Front Row/iSight built-in.

We'll see..!

danielbriggs
Aug 12, 2006, 01:43 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath, the Back to School iPod promo has always been a bait to help clear out old inventory. They won't make it available to buy, online or off, until after the promo ends.

As the promo in the UK ends on the 7th October, does that mean I won't see them filter through until then?

It's a shame if it is.

Why do some end in September and others in October?

http://www.apple.com/uk/backtoschool/?cid=WWW-EUUK-BTS20060801-8EBFY

"* Buy a qualifying Mac and an iPod from the online Apple Store or an Apple retail store — purchase must be made between August 1st and October 7th — and receive a mail-in rebate up to £100 (UK) / €160 (Ireland). Terms and Conditions apply. "

I need one so soon!

BlizzardBomb
Aug 12, 2006, 02:02 PM
But then it wouldn't be a Mac Mini, now would it?


(My first MR post. Ever.)

Well most people attach those hard drive thingies on the bottom, which makes it a little taller anyway.

Oh and welcome to MacRumors. Enjoy your stay.

50548
Aug 12, 2006, 02:35 PM
As the promo in the UK ends on the 7th October, does that mean I won't see them filter through until then?

It's a shame if it is.

Why do some end in September and others in October?

http://www.apple.com/uk/backtoschool/?cid=WWW-EUUK-BTS20060801-8EBFY

"* Buy a qualifying Mac and an iPod from the online Apple Store or an Apple retail store — purchase must be made between August 1st and October 7th — and receive a mail-in rebate up to £100 (UK) / €160 (Ireland). Terms and Conditions apply. "

I need one so soon!

The promo has nothing to do with new launches...they are completely independent and serve a public that is not interested nor in need of a cutting-edge notebook. The combo MB x iPod is wonderful for most, and it will be attractive even if the Merom notes are in the market.

eenu
Aug 12, 2006, 03:13 PM
After ordering a MBP when they were announced and then returning 4 defective units before demanding my money back, I'm going to do the same stupid thing and buy the first Merom MBP I can...

Glutton for punishment? *sigh*

I wasn't the only one to have 4 defective ones then :p

SeaFox
Aug 12, 2006, 04:03 PM
This promo isn't to clear out Mac inventory, if anything it is to clear out iPod stock. If they hold back the Merom MBP just so I can't the free iPod I would be pissed and they would hear about it.

You don't think a person is more likely to buy a Mac if they get a free iPod? The promo clears out Mac inventory, although I do agree it's primary purpose is to clear out iPod stock, more than once has Apple done an iPod update after the yearly iPod pomo ends.

The point is they would update a product right in the middle of a promotion its involved in.

ChickenSwartz
Aug 12, 2006, 04:05 PM
If the Mac Book is update before then you are not getting free ipod with it...

I don't understand.

I think the update will come before Septemver 16th. If I order before the 16th I can take advantage of the free iPod. I don't care if this means order, ship in x weeks.

moet_01
Aug 12, 2006, 05:31 PM
The promo has nothing to do with new launches...they are completely independent and serve a public that is not interested nor in need of a cutting-edge notebook. The combo MB x iPod is wonderful for most, and it will be attractive even if the Merom notes are in the market.


Right and they will be updated when there ready. The updated Books will not be a qualifying Mac for the Free iPod.

moet_01
Aug 12, 2006, 05:33 PM
I don't understand.

I think the update will come before Septemver 16th. If I order before the 16th I can take advantage of the free iPod. I don't care if this means order, ship in x weeks.


The updated Books will not be a qualifying Mac for the Free iPod.

Nuks
Aug 12, 2006, 05:50 PM
Why not?

If they come out on the 12th, and the promotion ends on the 16th (in Canada), then they should qualify..

mrwilly123
Aug 12, 2006, 06:04 PM
The updated Books will not be a qualifying Mac for the Free iPod.

You're wrong. The promotion is for ANY mac before September 16, as Nuks said. They can't (and won't) change the terms of the promotion before it expires.




I'm planning to order a MBP and a nano right after Paris. If MBPs come out before Paris, I'm still going to wait to see if they revise the nano...that would make up for the 3 months of waiting to get the MBP.

ChickenSwartz
Aug 12, 2006, 06:32 PM
You're wrong. The promotion is for ANY mac before September 16, as Nuks said. They can't (and won't) change the terms of the promotion before it expires.

My thoughts exactly. The offer is valid for ANY Mac. They loose pratically no money on the Nano if the person buys on the iTunes store.


I'm planning to order a MBP and a nano right after Paris. If MBPs come out before Paris, I'm still going to wait to see if they revise the nano...that would make up for the 3 months of waiting to get the MBP.

I am ordering MBP as soon as they are updated OR Sept. 12th after Keynote which ever is first. I don't really care about the updated Nano, I am giving it away as a gift.

moet_01
Aug 12, 2006, 06:35 PM
You're wrong. The promotion is for ANY mac before September 16, as Nuks said. They can't (and won't) change the terms of the promotion before it expires.




I'm planning to order a MBP and a nano right after Paris. If MBPs come out before Paris, I'm still going to wait to see if they revise the nano...that would make up for the 3 months of waiting to get the MBP.


Not sure why you guys think you will get a free iPod with a new MBP.. Did you read the Terms and conditions? Where does it list the new MBP ?

http://www.apple.com/uk/backtoschool/?cid=WWW-EUUK-BTS20060801-8EBFY

They did add the Mac Pro so you guys still have hopes to get a free iPod if released in time.

ChickenSwartz
Aug 12, 2006, 06:43 PM
Not sure why you guys think you will get a free iPod with a new MBP.. Did you read the Terms and conditions? Where does it list the new MBP ?

http://www.apple.com/uk/backtoschool/?cid=WWW-EUUK-BTS20060801-8EBFY

They did add the Mac Pro so you guys still have hopes to get a free iPod if released in time.

It doesn't since there is no new MBP yet. Looking at the US store, the Mac Pro was added. Why wouldn't a MBP with a new processor?