AppleInsider: MEROM MACBOOK PRO'S AROUND SEPTEMBER 5th

[hyperpasta]

Sorry for the all-caps, but I think the subject justifies them.

particular, the company this week is said to be preparing for massive air-freight shipments from the Far East that are due to drop in the United States around the 5th of September.

Although sources were not specific as to what product(s) Apple is planning to move, the timeframe of the shipments coincides nicely with dates in which the Mac maker is believed to be ready to roll with its first Core 2 Duo-based MacBook Pro notebook systems.

Full Article. (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1965)

I think we can assume this is true, given AppleInsider's insanely great track record - flawlessly predicting the Mac Pro's dual optical drives, all XEON processors, and unchanged case for instance.

In addition, they also put new iPod nanos as coming out in September as well... possibly around the 16th.

[extraextra]

Hoooray! Maybe all the "When is Merom coming out?" "Should I wait for Merom?" etc. threads will stop now. :rolleyes:

[ksz]

Merom in MBPs makes sense, but I'm not sure the iPod nano will be end-of-lifed so quickly. Bumped up in specs perhaps, but probably not retired altogether.

[hyperpasta]

Merom in MBPs makes sense, but I'm not sure the iPod nano will be end-of-lifed so quickly. Bumped up in specs perhaps, but probably not retired altogether.

End-Of-Life is something told to retailers. It means "get rid of these, these exact models will be outdated soon", not "No more iPod nano".

I'm personally expecting a mini-esque design and a capacity bump.

[BRLawyer]

Good to know...now if Apple could just launch a 12/13" MBP or even an improved 13" MB (with dedicated GPU and perhaps a backlit keyboard), I would be glad to spend some Swiss Francs on a new notebook..!

[KingYaba]

Sweet. I can wait till September 5th. It would be a nice birthday present to myself. :)

[ChickenSwartz]

Hoooray! Maybe all the "When is Merom coming out?" "Should I wait for Merom?" etc. threads will stop now. :rolleyes:

No sorry. There will be more.

When is the question?

Tomorrow in MBP [please]? Or is that too early?

[BlizzardBomb]

Whatever you do Apple, don't leave the Mini with the Yonah Core Solo it has now.

[true777]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for anytyhing other than iPod updates.
Pretty sure this is iPod related.

[ryanx27]

No sorry. There will be more.

When is the question?

Tomorrow in MBP [please]? Or is that too early?


Next Tuesday, as always! ;)

[Demon Hunter]

This is exciting! It's hardly a rumor anymore! I still remember waiting for new PowerBooks... and now we have 64–bit dual–core CPUs. *cries* I love Intel!

[tonyl]

No Conroe Macs?

[ebuc]

"massive air-freight shipments"...MAFS next Tuesday...That way its a bit more vague, since we don't know which machine Apple will update

(Really, though, we all know it will be the MacBook Pros. It better be.)

[AppleIntelRock]

Sheesh. So glad I upgraded to my 1.67 PB to the 17" MBP. Although I love the speed bump between the 2, I cant imagine a 64 bit MPB. For now I think I'll just have to keep the one I have (until photoshop goes native at least) however, If they change the case- I may have to cry. :(

[GFLPraxis]

I want my Conroe iMac!

I'll even be happy with Merom...just give it to me before the free iPod deal expires :(

[ZildjianKX]

No Conroe Macs?

I'm anxious to see if they end up in the iMac.

[MikeNemat]

There has been sporadic reports around the 'net and also on the macrumors forums of macbook pros going on 5-7 day delays at the apple store and out of stock at retail stores.

I smell a tuesday morning product update :D

[vanzskater272]

so does this mean merom macbooks also

[guzhogi]

Good to know...now if Apple could just launch a 12/13" MBP or even an improved 13" MB (with dedicated GPU and perhaps a backlit keyboard), I would be glad to spend some Swiss Francs on a new notebook..!
If MBs got a dedicated GPU & backlit keyboard, what would be the difference between that and an MBP other than a superdrive, Firewire 800 and an Express Card slot? IMO, that's not enough of a difference for me.

[ryanx27]

"massive air-freight shipments"...MAFS next Tuesday...That way its a bit more vague, since we don't know which machine Apple will update

(Really, though, we all know it will be the MacBook Pros. It better be.)


God, I hope so. Student loan money is hittin' soon, and will be burning a hole in my pocket (that is, the painfully finite chunk of it that won't be ear marked for law school tuition, books, rent, and food :( ).

But besides the back-to-schoolers, I think so many people are following the Meroms-in-Macs story intently because if Apple goes "live" with Meroms soon, it's going to signal that "milestone" shift for Apple that people have predicted ever since the switch to Intel was announced -- a competetive, responsive, and regular update/upgrade cycle for Macs that keeps time with the PC market (and, by proxy, will probably offer a greater array of choices for Mac buyers as well).

Here's to hoping that Apple makes "all the right moves," and wins much more market share by doing so!

[LittleJ09]

I thought "Core 2 Duo" was intended to be a desktop chip, and "Core Duo" was the laptop version.

If this is not the case, what was the point of the "Core Duo" ?

[Di9it8]

It would make sense to improve the specs of the MacBook Pro, as at the moment it is the screen size and vram as the differences. Also what about the iPhone:rolleyes:

[Demon Hunter]

Sheesh. So glad I upgraded to my 1.67 PB to the 17" MBP. Although I love the speed bump between the 2, I cant imagine a 64 bit MPB. For now I think I'll just have to keep the one I have (until photoshop goes native at least) however, If they change the case- I may have to cry. :(

Don't worry, they won't change the case. There's not even a chance. The Mac Pro is all the proof you need. Aluminum is perfect! :)

[j26]

I thought "Core 2 Duo" was intended to be a desktop chip, and "Core Duo" was the laptop version.

If this is not the case, what was the point of the "Core Duo" ?

Core 2 has 2 variations - laptop (merom) and desktop (Conroe) both are 64bit

Core Duo (Yonah) is the current one and is 32 bit.

The point of Core Duo (for Apple) was to get onto dual core Intel processors as fast as possible.

[nagromme]

Merom soon makes sense--in the Pro models and maybe iMac.

But Apple should certainly keep Yonah machines (Mini and MB) as well.

Yonah (even single-core Yonah) is already overkill power for some low-end users. So why make them pay for a pair of Merom cores?

Instead, let Yonah's price drop, and the bottom-end Mac models' price drop with it.

[Demon Hunter]

Merom soon makes sense--in the Pro models and maybe iMac.

But Apple should certainly keep Yonah machines (Mini and MB) as well.

Yonah (even single-core Yonah) is already overkill power for some low-end users. So why make them pay for a pair of Merom cores?

Instead, let Yonah's price drop, and the bottom-end Mac models' price drop with it.

Hear, hear. Back to $499 for the Mac mini!

[aswitcher]

Seems almost certain then that iMacs will follow suit the next week at paris Expo.

[aswitcher]

Hear, hear. Back to $499 for the Mac mini!

I think a lot of people would be getting second Macs if they did that.

[bluetorch18]

Merom soon makes sense--in the Pro models and maybe iMac.

But Apple should certainly keep Yonah machines (Mini and MB) as well.

Yonah (even single-core Yonah) is already overkill power for some low-end users. So why make them pay for a pair of Merom cores?

Instead, let Yonah's price drop, and the bottom-end Mac models' price drop with it.

I agree, there has always been a huge gap in the iBook and PowerBook performancewise...The PowerBook had a G4 in it LONG before the iBook did, thats what justified the price difference...right now I think Apple is ripping people off on MacBook Pros, because the people that want a dedicated GPU have to dish out at least $500-700 extra, which in my opinion is rediculous, especially for a low range graphics card...I really hope Apple gets their act together and puts a GOOD graphics card in their next line of MBPs.

[MacSA]

Whatever you do Apple, don't leave the Mini with the Yonah Core Solo it has now.

True, that thing has GOT TO GO, that chip must sell for about 50p now we have merom/conroe etc.

[Tommyg117]

Come on Mac Book Pro Merom!

[nagromme]

True, that thing has GOT TO GO, that chip must sell for about 50p now we have merom/conroe etc.
Why does Core Solo have to go? It's a great chip, in the same general performance ballpark as a mid-range single G5. And once Intel drops the price on it, it will be an even better deal.

Not every computer shopper needs dual processors. There are low-end buyers out there too (just probably not here on MacRumors :) ).

[mrweirdo]

man I am gona be so pissed if apple upgrades the macbook after just recently purchasing a blackbook myself. Not realy at apple but myself for buying because I could realy use the improved battery life since I allways find myself trying to find the nearest power outlet too hook up after about 3 hours of use :/

[noservice2001]

so free ipod ends sept 15? sweet....:D

[MacSA]

Why does Core Solo have to go? It's a great chip, in the same general performance ballpark as a mid-range single G5. And once Intel drops the price on it, it will be an even better deal.

Not every computer shopper needs dual processors. There are low-end buyers out there too (just probably not here on MacRumors :) ).

This "most people dont need a fast chip" is nonsense, the core solo mini is just emabarrassing now, even Apple dont have ANY solo minis out on display in stores. All the reviews and tests showed hardly any improvement over the 1.5ghz G4 Mini. If they cut the price of the core solo mini £100 it might be worth it - MIGHT.

[ebuc]

so free ipod ends sept 15? sweet....:D

I like that kind of thinking!

[Mac Rules]

As much as I want Merom, I can't afford it now, so I guess next year when Santa Rose comes out, perhaps the Core 3 Duo?

Cheers

[nagromme]

This "most people dont need a fast chip" is nonsense, the core solo mini is just emabarrassing now, even Apple dont have ANY solo minis out on display in stores. All the reviews and tests showed hardly any improvement over the 1.5ghz G4 Mini. If they cut the price of the core solo mini £100 it might be worth it - MIGHT.
I didn't say "most"--I said "some"--which is the truth.

However, from the tests I have seen, single-core Yonah IS a very fast chip, faster than a G4 Mini. It depends on the task of course. But regardless, for low-end buyers, a G4 Mini was adequate power to begin with, and still is. (In fact, almost every Mac user I know has less than a 1.5Ghz G4--thanks to the long useful life of a Mac--and that includes some professionals doing graphics work.)

The point is that for SOME people, a cheaper Mac is more important than having dual processor cores. This is the model that sets the minimum entry barrier for becoming a Mac user.

So you really can't say that Core Solo is for nobody, or "embarrassing." Not many months ago, it could outrun most laptops in the world!

I'd recommend a US$499 Core Solo Mac in a hearbeat--and a lot of people (not "most") would gladly take it instead of a $599 or $699 64-bit Core 2 Duo--or even a $549 Core Duo Yonah. $500 is a magic price point in some consumers' minds, and I think Apple would do well to reach it again.

EDIT: I run my business from a machine slower than Core Solo--and I'm far from alone :)

[aegisdesign]

This "most people dont need a fast chip" is nonsense, the core solo mini is just emabarrassing now, even Apple dont have ANY solo minis out on display in stores. If they cut the price of the core solo mini £100 it might be worth it - MIGHT.

Embarrassing to who ?

At that end of the market, people shop on price. If Apple can cut $100 off the price or even £100 then that's a bargain for most people that just want something to handle iLife apps, the net and a bit of word processing. Plenty fast at that as it's faster than most people's PowerBooks from not 6 months ago.

[berkleeboy210]

Will these new processors be worth it to put my MacBook up for sale?

[MacSA]

Embarrassing to who ?



To Apple, who else? Which is why they never have core solo minis on displays.

[nagromme]

To Apple, who else? Which is why they never have core solo minis on displays.
They never have them on display because they are slower than the duals. So why shouldn't they show the duals? Makes sense to me.

That doesn't mean nobody buys the single-core model which is on the same price sign.

Choice of floor models does not equate to embarrassment or failure, or to a bad product that nobody wants.

[M-Life]

Whatever you do Apple, don't leave the Mini with the Yonah Core Solo it has now.

Agreed.

I just can't stand this emachines any longer. And it is three years old at that. And it was bottom of the line when I got it. Needless to say, this thing runs slower than a depressed turtle. I can only afford the bottom mini, but I don't want core solo, atleast at the price it is now.

[KingYaba]

Agreed.

I just can't stand this emachines any longer. And it is three years old at that. And it was bottom of the line when I got it. Needless to say, this thing runs slower than a depressed turtle. I can only afford the bottom mini, but I don't want core solo, at-least at the price it is now.

"depressed turtle" :D ah that was pretty funny. Yeah I agree. the Solo processor is wimpy and should have core-duo at that base price.

[Multimedia]

Not much NEW to this "NEWS". Just confirms a little more of what many of us have been saying for rmonths:

September 12 Paris Apple Expo Keynote

[Dr.Gargoyle]

Core 2 Duo in Macbook Pro.... and soon in iMac too... :D
and then we all get the "pleasure" of watching iGary running around naked. :eek:
This prospect really defines ambivalence... ;)

[atad6]

honestly, i think all of this hype is a little overrated. not that merom isn't a great chip but yonah just isn't that much different. in actual real world performance, meaning the speed you'll actually be able notice and therefore be able to "use" won't be that much faster than the current yonah chips.

also the 64 bit ability is also a bit over hyped by both the producing companies and the media. all it means is that the new chips will be able to deal with bigger chunks of data at once. in some cases this has been seen to slow down traditional 32 bit operations. sure everyone sees this as being more "future proof" but 64 bit consumer processors have been out for a while now and all these amd 64 bit processors that have been out for several years are completely obsolete by their current 32bit counterparts. 64 bit just hasn't really caught on and there are a lot of people who agree that it won't for a while for consumers. it just doesn't yield that much of a performance gain for consumer apps even when specifically programmed in 64bit and only is really valuable for needs such as processing things such as hd video content, advanced mathematical operations or sorting through large databases (which is why it's good for a workstation such as a mac pro). even though the next version of osx will be programmed in 64bit there won't most likely be any noticable difference performance wise for 99% of the applications people would use on a notebook plus the wide availablity of 64 bit apps won't probably happen for a while. for all the people waiting i'd say wait longer if you want a machine that'll scream.

the 800mhz fsb merom chips that intel will come out with next year will make yonah and merom almost obsolete in comparison and honestly the new merom chips are more marketing hype than performance when comparing them to their current yonah counterparts.

the whole 2gb memory limit is also sort of a myth since 32 bit intel chipsets have been able to address more than 2gb of memory for a while now. the wide spread availablity of an affordable 2gb memory stick for a laptop is yet to be seen considering they'll run you atleast 1600 dollars a piece now a days.

i think when the merom chips come out the people who have been waiting and waiting and cannot wait any longer should be smart and use it as a chance to take advantage of all the marketing hype and save probably more than a decent amount of money by purchasing a yonah system. i know apple users are used to waiting for significant hardware updates which the old ppc architecture had but the pc hardware world works a little differently (ie: paying a lot more overhead for the "top of the line" which doesn't usually have much or any noticable performance differences from their slightly older counterparts).

it is my honest opinion that all these people who have diligently waited should take advantage of it and save from all the marketing hype. or if they are really intent on getting a "top of the line" machine that won't go obsolete so quickly should wait until next year when apple will throw in the 800mhz fsb chip and the possiblity of blueray and 802.11n chips.
of course a lot of the people who have been waiting will probably flame me for this and try to justify otherwise since they want to be able to justify spending the extra overhead price this "top of the line" chip has, but if you look at the facts you'll see it's mostly marketing hype with a severely limited fsb. there has to be someone who agrees with me.

[danielwsmithee]

I will buy as soon as they offer a Core 2 Duo without a display that can drive 2 DVI monitors. My Dell at work is screaming to be replaced by my own Mac. The bastards won't buy me anything besides DELL!! At least I have two LCD displays. I'd drop $1000 of my own money to be able to run OS X at work!!

It seams like a lot of the new features in Leopard Server or targeting the enterprise work enviornment. It is too bad they don't actually have a machine that targets a typical enterprise buyer. $1000-$1500 headless desktop.

[regre7]

atad6:

par·a·graph (pr-grf)
n.

1. A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.

[danielwsmithee]

atad6:

par·a·graph (pr-grf)
You expect him to use paragraphs when he can't capitalize the first letter in a sentence? One step at a time please. The content of his post is actually very good, it is just hard to get to through the grammar.

[atad6]

atad6:

par·a·graph (pr-grf)
n.

1. A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words.


there, i did that just for you. can you understand it now? i also don't understand why some people get all upset because i have a differing point of view or opinion.

[bradc]

Who cares? Who cares about grammar on a Messageboard? His post was legibile and it was his opinion. You guys must have something up your a$$.

[danielwsmithee]

You guys must have something up your a$$.Maybe that is why I had to go to the chiropractor this afternoon! :D I do agree with everything his post had to say. If that makes you feel any better.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

Can they even leave it anymore? Those chips are like $5 on the open market now, no? Hopefully they'll do a mass update across the lines so as not to do the underpower/overpriced redux a' la' the G4.

Whatever you do Apple, don't leave the Mini with the Yonah Core Solo it has now.

[guzhogi]

Why are so many of you so against the Core Solo? I know quite a few people who don't need dual cores. These people only word process, surf the web and check e-mail making dual cores/procs overkill. A lot of you seem to think that if you need the absolute fastest dual core computer, so does everyone else, which is not true. And before any of you flame me and say "I don't think that!" I said ->MANY<- of you ->SEEM<-. That doesn't mean I think all of you actually think that. But I think that Apple should lower the price of the Solo Mini.

[guzhogi]

i also don't understand why some people get all upset because i have a differing point of view or opinion.
Because those people are jackasses and think that they're always right and anything else is wrong and evil. Okay, maybe I'm exaggerating, but a lot of people are like that. Just look how much hatred and violence there is between religious fanatics.

A while ago, I was thinking what it would be like if there was a computer where anything that can be external was external. I mean, the only things the computer would have would be a CPU, RAM, and a graphics card. Everything else (hard drive, monitor, DVD, etc.) would connect via Firewire/USB. That would really shave off the initial price, and let people choose what kind of drives they want. This probably won't be for the average person who doesn't know what everything is and there'd be a lot of stuff all over your desk, but just a thought. Plus, you don't even need a hard drive if you use something like NetBoot. For those who don't know what NetBoot is, it's a technology in Mac OS X where a Mac on a network can boot off a server. It's pretty cool. I use it at work which is an elementary & jr. high school district and we used it to make all the computers in the computer labs have the same software.

[atad6]

You expect him to use paragraphs when he can't capitalize the first letter in a sentence? One step at a time please. The content of his post is actually very good, it is just hard to get to through the grammar.

I apologize about the grammar. It's really late at night and it was a very quick post.

[roland.g]

Keep or ditch the Core Solo in the Mini. I don't really care.

Just give me a 1.83 or 2.00 ghz Merom in the Mini for $799 with a 128mb integrated graphics.

Better yet. A new cube with room one or two 160, 250, or 500 GB HDD's, dedicated graphics, up to 2 GB RAM, DVI out for dual screens, or one 30" ACD.

Base Model:
2.0 ghz Merom, upgradable to 2.33
160 GB HDD, upgradable to 250 or 500, plus a second 500 available.
512 MB RAM, upgradable to 2 GB
x1800 video + one pci slot, upgradable to support 2 screens or 30" ACD
airport & bluetooth
superdrive
keyboard & mouse
Front Row, remote, IR sensor

Base model price: $1499

Nicely equipped: 2.0 ghz, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB HDD - $1874
Bundled with 23" ACD - screen adds $949, with built in iSight.

[Ktulu]

I didn't say "most"--I said "some"--which is the truth.

However, from the tests I have seen, single-core Yonah IS a very fast chip, faster than a G4 Mini. It depends on the task of course. But regardless, for low-end buyers, a G4 Mini was adequate power to begin with, and still is. (In fact, almost every Mac user I know has less than a 1.5Ghz G4--thanks to the long useful life of a Mac--and that includes some professionals doing graphics work.)

The point is that for SOME people, a cheaper Mac is more important than having dual processor cores. This is the model that sets the minimum entry barrier for becoming a Mac user.

So you really can't say that Core Solo is for nobody, or "embarrassing." Not many months ago, it could outrun most laptops in the world!

I'd recommend a US$499 Core Solo Mac in a hearbeat--and a lot of people (not "most") would gladly take it instead of a $599 or $699 64-bit Core 2 Duo--or even a $549 Core Duo Yonah. $500 is a magic price point in some consumers' minds, and I think Apple would do well to reach it again.

EDIT: I run my business from a machine slower than Core Solo--and I'm far from alone :)

nagromme you summed it up perfectly. If it wasn't for a massive HD crash, I would be typing this on my old G3 B/W 450Mhz Power Mac instead of my work Dell laptop. Just because something isn't the fastest or the best, doesn't mean that it no longer suits your needs. Sure my machine was slow, but it ran Panther just fine along with PhotoShop, Flash MX 2004 Pro, iTunes, QT Pro 7, etc..:D

[danielwsmithee]

Base model price: $1499That is what I am looking for too, except I think they can hit a lower price point at the low end. The $1299 MacBook uses a processor that costs the same as the 2.0Ghz Merom will cost. A 160 GB 3.5" hard drive is a significant savings over a laptop HD. The only item more expensive would be the use of dedicated graphics chip. I would be happy with and x1600 like the current iMac, or even integrated graphics if they could get the price down to about $1000. I just want to drive two displays, and I don't care about games, just text.

[Joshua CHung]

Merom in MBPs makes sense, but I'm not sure the iPod nano will be end-of-lifed so quickly. Bumped up in specs perhaps, but probably not retired altogether.

Look at Apple's Back-to-School Program and you will know when the iPod will become End-Of-Life: Last year, iPod mini was offer as free (4GB model) when a student/educator bought a Mac. Within a week after the program end day, it gone and iPod nano was introduced.

Looking at this year program and you can professionally predict what would happen.

[roland.g]

That is what I am looking for too, except I think they can hit a lower price point at the low end. The $1299 MacBook uses a processor that costs the same as the 2.0Ghz Merom will cost. A 160 GB 3.5" hard drive is a significant savings over a laptop HD. The only item more expensive would be the use of dedicated graphics chip. I would be happy with and x1600 like the current iMac, or even integrated graphics if they could get the price down to about $1000. I just want to drive two displays, and I don't care about games, just text.

I think the target is a high end iMac without the screen, so you won't get it for more than $200 less. Since the iMac comes with a 250, not a 160, make it a 250, adding $200 to got to a 500. I think the iMac will get the x1800 when it goes Core 2 Duo next month. So I just put that on par based on expecations. I think you have to go dedicated. The Mini is out there for anyone who can live with integrated graphics, and you can get a Ministack HDD for cheap to add storage from OWC. This appeals to those you don't want to fork out $2500 for a PRO and don't need it, but don't want an integrated display. It will also get a lot more switchers because gamers, though I'm not one either, will want good graphics to dual boot. You put in a second internal drive and you don't even have to partition for that. This machine would sell like crazy.

[ksz]

Look at Apple's Back-to-School Program and you will know when the iPod will become End-Of-Life: Last year, iPod mini was offer as free (4GB model) when a student/educator bought a Mac. Within a week after the program end day, it gone and iPod nano was introduced.

Looking at this year program and you can professionally predict what would happen.
The mini was introduced in January 2004 (http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=ipod_mini) and retired in September 2005 (http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=ipod_mini), a span of 20 months.

The nano was introduced in September 2005 (http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=ipod_mini) and, if the mini example is to be repeated, the nano would be retired in May 2007.

[danielwsmithee]

Looking at this year program and you can professionally predict what would happen.Mac World Paris will be fairly substantial this year.

I predict:
Updated Nano -> magnesium enclosure upgraded to 8 GB.

Updated MBP -> Introducing the Merom.

Updated Black MacBook -> The Black MacBook is the small MBP, it will get Merom as well, white MacBooks will get a price drop and stay with the Core Duo.

Updated iMac -> Will get Conroe 2.66 Ghz 20" and 2.33 Ghz 17", also unlickely but possible introduction of iMac Extreme (23", Black, X1900, Core 2 Duo Extreme 2.99 Ghz)

Possible but not very likely:
New Headless Mac between mini and Pro, Video iPod, iPhone.

[danielwsmithee]

The Mini is out there for anyone who can live with integrated graphics, and you can get a Ministack HDD for cheap to add storage from OWC. I agree I would buy one today if it could drive two monitors. Unfortunately it can not.

[shecky]

the 800mhz fsb merom chips that intel will come out with next year will make yonah and merom almost obsolete in comparison

incorrect statement and a false exaggeration. a 20% frontside bus increase + incremental core speed increase does not even approach putting the older chips into obsolescence. is it faster? yes. newer? yes. but it does not make the older chips somehow almost unuseable.

[Hunabku]

even though the next version of osx will be programmed in 64bit there won't most likely be any noticable difference performance wise for 99% of the applications people would use on a notebook plus the wide availablity of 64 bit apps won't probably happen for a while. for all the people waiting i'd say wait longer if you want a machine that'll scream.


Sure you can always wait longer for a faster machine and more 64 bit apps, but if you were in the market for one now, buying a 64 bit laptop would be a much wiser investment. Especially, if you are in the media industry and intend to use a laptop as a mobile editing station - then 64 bit is much more important.

And when more apps go 64 bit, then these machines will probably have even better resale compared to 32 bit machines. Yes I want one!

[atad6]

true, i completely agree. i was just trying to explain the extra cost to performace ratio that i feel is a bit exaggerated at times. also when i mentioned the yonah and merom being obsolete i was just being a bit sarcastic, taking on the same opinion that many of the people who are waiting for the merom have about the current yonah platform.

[btgordon]

Good news for all of us out here waiting for the new MBP.


As for everyone saying that there will only be about a 20% performance difference, I agree and disagree. While Merom only has a 20% performance difference versus Yonah at the same clock speed, don't forget that Apple isn't using the highest speed chip-the high end processor for the MBP is 2.16, versus the highest speed Yonah and Merom chips, which are 2.33 ghz.


So feasibly, if apple puts the highest speed Merom into the high end MBP, we could see slightly bigger increases in speed than 20% at most. We would probably see 20% on average, but on some intensive apps larger amounts. Of course, that is only based on the head vs. head Yonah vs. Merom benchmarks I have seen.

Anyway, I personally believe the difference will actually be the Yonah 2.16 32 bit versus Merom 2.33 ghz 64 bit, again assuming Apple gets the fastest Merom, and I don't see why they wouldn't.

As for the schedule, I think if they get it out by early September they will be beating most, not all, PC makers to the Merom punch. And that would set an excellent precedent for future releases, as has already been remarked on this thread. Early September is looking prime for a MBP launch, but that is to my laptop starved mind, so I could be completely off.

[fastlane1588]

Sure you can always wait longer for a faster machine and more 64 bit apps, but if you were in the market for one now, buying a 64 bit laptop would be a much wiser investment. Especially, if you are in the media industry and intend to use a laptop as a mobile editing station - then 64 bit is much more important.

And when more apps go 64 bit, then these machines will probably have even better resale compared to 32 bit machines. Yes I want one!
yea i think that once leopard comes out in 64 bit thats when these new proccessors will begin to shine

[macintel4me]

Base Model:
2.0 ghz Merom, upgradable to 2.33
160 GB HDD, upgradable to 250 or 500, plus a second 500 available.
512 MB RAM, upgradable to 2 GB
x1800 video + one pci slot, upgradable to support 2 screens or 30" ACD
airport & bluetooth
superdrive
keyboard & mouse
Front Row, remote, IR sensor

Base model price: $1499

Nicely equipped: 2.0 ghz, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB HDD - $1874
Bundled with 23" ACD - screen adds $949, with built in iSight.
Make it upgradable to 4 GB of RAM with a Conroe chip and I'd hit it!

[Multimedia]

Merom soon makes sense--in the Pro models and maybe iMac.

But Apple should certainly keep Yonah machines (Mini and MB) as well.

Yonah (even single-core Yonah) is already overkill power for some low-end users. So why make them pay for a pair of Merom cores?

Instead, let Yonah's price drop, and the bottom-end Mac models' price drop with it.I couldn't disagree more. It's like the famous saying no one will ever need more than 32MB of RAM or IBM will probably be able to sell 10 computers to the entire world etc. With Leopard coming in only 9 months, Apple is sure to want to stop shipping 32-bit Macs as well as single core Macs as soon as humanly possible. Yonah is certainly NOT "overkill" for anyone since it has only ONE CORE. Looks like we have some "Core Challenged" here who can't envision the need to run more than one thing at a time as fast as possible. As long as computers have only ONE CORE, the "consumer" who "doesn't need more than one" will continue to be taught to "wait their turn" when they suddenly and unexpectedly do find the need for more processing power.

That Single Core 1.5GHz Yonah represents THE END of single core processing for the remainder of the Macintosh computing era in the annals of human history. And expunged it need be as soon as it is humanly possible.

You think Steve doesn't want to take the stage in Paris or San Francisco and declare the end of single core processing as well as the end of 32- bit processing at Apple? i can assure you he not only does but that he has been planning on it for years. It is the preemble to the presentation he will give upon the release of the first fully blown 64-bit version of OS X - Leopard 10.5 a few short months later.Hear, hear. Back to $499 for the Mac mini!1.66GHz Core 2 Duo Mac mini does not prohibit a $499 price on the refurb page by Christmas. But in any event, I don't see how you can deny that, at $599, the 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo mini will still be an amazing value - especially for those who wait until after January 9th when it ships with iLife '07. :D

[Cinch]

That Single Core 1.5GHz Yonah represents THE END of single core processing for the remainder of the Macintosh computing era in the anals of human history. And expunged it need be as soon as it is humanly possible.



How about each core running at 400mhz for each application (8 cores sounds like a plan) to conserve battery. If one application is not running than the core shuts down. Asymetrical clock computer i think that is what they call it. I hope they keep the GHz of the upcoming MacBook down too conserve battery. How about a laptop that can run the entire day on a single charge? How about a true laptop. What we have now is a small computer that plugs into the wall socket.

Cinch

[AidenShaw]

That Single Core 1.5GHz Yonah represents THE END of single core processing for the remainder of the Macintosh computing era in the anals of human history. And expunged it need be as soon as it is humanly possible.
I think the spelling of the word that you intended is "annals", but the word that you used is also somewhat appropriate considering Apple's current leadership.

(I've said many times that Apple should have skipped Yonah and waited for Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest, so that *all* MacIntels would be 64-bit...)

[ezekielrage_99]

If we get Merom iMacs I am buying one.

My credit card is ready and waiting to buy one :cool:

[AidenShaw]

How about each core running at 400mhz for each application (8 cores sounds like a plan)
8 cores at 400 MHz does not equal 3200 MHz - few apps could use more than a core or two for long periods, so you'd have the speed of a 400 MHz or 800 MHz system.

Much better to have 2 cores at 1.6 GHz to 2.4 GHz, and power management that shuts off unneeded circuits (it can be much smarter than brute force "turn a core on or off").

[ezekielrage_99]

So it looks like the 64 bit Apple sales pitch is back into the spotlight.

I'm glad because I thought going from 64bit G5 to 32bit Intel seemed like a step back, and yes I know it isn't it's just the perception.

[AidenShaw]

So it looks like the 64 bit Apple sales pitch is back into the spotlight.
And the "sales pitch" is in full hype mode, even though it will be nine months or more before any software will be sold that can turn on 64-bit processing on a MacIntel! ;)

[mdntcallr]

There has been sporadic reports around the 'net and also on the macrumors forums of macbook pros going on 5-7 day delays at the apple store and out of stock at retail stores.

I smell a tuesday morning product update :D

lets hope. cause students can smell an undate coming. and they really need to get the new models out before school.

that said. new models coming beggining of sept across the consumer line would be great.

Hope they expand the model line to include a smaller tower. which has more upgradability than the mac mini. ie upgrade the graphics card and more.

also add 160gb laptop hard drive to the macbook pro lines.

I need 2 computers.. so this would rock.

[danielwsmithee]

Much better to have 2 cores at 1.6 GHz to 2.4 GHz, and power management that shuts off unneeded circuits (it can be much smarter than brute force "turn a core on or off").The Core Duo and Core 2 Duo automatically reduce the clock speed when not needed as well. I think the 2 Ghz version cuts all the way back to 1.2 Ghz when not needed.

[mdntcallr]

I agree, there has always been a huge gap in the iBook and PowerBook performancewise...The PowerBook had a G4 in it LONG before the iBook did, thats what justified the price difference...right now I think Apple is ripping people off on MacBook Pros, because the people that want a dedicated GPU have to dish out at least $500-700 extra, which in my opinion is rediculous, especially for a low range graphics card...I really hope Apple gets their act together and puts a GOOD graphics card in their next line of MBPs.

you are so right. apple is skimping on graphics across the board. take a look at the lousy basic cards they put in the Mac Pro.

Cmon apple, you can do a bit better. you have purchasing power. so cmon help your consumers with great systems with across the board power.

[mdntcallr]

Agreed.

I just can't stand this emachines any longer. And it is three years old at that. And it was bottom of the line when I got it. Needless to say, this thing runs slower than a depressed turtle. I can only afford the bottom mini, but I don't want core solo, atleast at the price it is now.

well, perhaps you can do nicely with putting in a new cpu into your existing macmini.

i think you could get the performance you are looking for.

[omgwut]

I agree, I think that the $500-700 price gap between the choice of a notebook with a solution like integrated graphics that should be utterly abolished and any sort of actual dedicated graphics processor is just a bit too much of a jump to have to make.

But I certainly hope that if and when these new Core2 Duo MacBook Pro's are released, we will see a substantial price drop in the current lineup.. I've got to make my decision and pick a notebook soon before school, and I seriously hope that after this disappointing WWDC our legs aren't just being pulled again.. If Apple is going to release a Core2 Duo-equipped MacBook Pro, there is no excuse not to do it soon.

[surroundfan]

So it looks like the 64 bit Apple sales pitch is back into the spotlight.

I'm glad because I thought going from 64bit G5 to 32bit Intel seemed like a step back, and yes I know it isn't it's just the perception.

Let's hope it's Core 2 Duos across the line, with the Mini ditching the out-of-place Core Solo. This means that Apple's marketing will be able to spin the line that it's the only PC maker with "Leopard-ready" dual core, 64-bit processors across the line. This is probably unlikely given Apple's propensity to underwhelm at keynotes, but I can always hope...

(Give me a headless, expandable iMac for US$999 and I'll be happy though.)

[legacyb4]

Hmm, while I lust for a Merom-based MacBook, I could definitely lust after a lower-priced, Yonah-based MacBook.

Choices, choices, choices...

Merom soon makes sense--in the Pro models and maybe iMac.

But Apple should certainly keep Yonah machines (Mini and MB) as well.

Yonah (even single-core Yonah) is already overkill power for some low-end users. So why make them pay for a pair of Merom cores?

Instead, let Yonah's price drop, and the bottom-end Mac models' price drop with it.

[ezekielrage_99]

And the "sales pitch" is in full hype mode, even though it will be nine months or more before any software will be sold that can turn on 64-bit processing on a MacIntel! ;)

I'm not saying it's a bad thing I just found it funny to have "the first 64 bit desktop computer" hype then "we are switching to Intel" and just like that the 64 bit thing went.

I think once 64 bit computering (software wise) is implemented properly it will be another good Apple thing.

[ezekielrage_99]

Let's hope it's Core 2 Duos across the line, with the Mini ditching the out-of-place Core Solo. This means that Apple's marketing will be able to spin the line that it's the only PC maker with "Leopard-ready" dual core, 64-bit processors across the line. This is probably unlikely given Apple's propensity to underwhelm at keynotes, but I can always hope...

(Give me a headless, expandable iMac for US$999 and I'll be happy though.)

Sounds pretty likely with the Keynote... well I hope so

Yeah I do agree with the Solo being a little out of place considering the fact for not much more you can get a much faster computer with a Dual Core Proccessor.

I'm up for Core 2 Duo across the line :cool:

I'm holding out for that and a big fat tax return so I can buy either an iMac with a Merom or MacBook with a Merom.

[Multimedia]

I agree, I think that the $500-700 price gap between the choice of a notebook with a solution like integrated graphics that should be utterly abolished and any sort of actual dedicated graphics processor is just a bit too much of a jump to have to make.

But I certainly hope that if and when these new Core2 Duo MacBook Pro's are released, we will see a substantial price drop in the current lineup.. I've got to make my decision and pick a notebook soon before school, and I seriously hope that after this disappointing WWDC our legs aren't just being pulled again.. If Apple is going to release a Core2 Duo-equipped MacBook Pro, there is no excuse not to do it soon.There is an excellent excuse - supply. But if they decide to pull a tricke out type of launch then that would be cool too. Demand is likely going to exceed supply well into October. So you will have to be patient and not feel the need to have a computer on your first day of classes. Price drop for current lineup is already happening on the refurb "SAVE" page.

You DO NOT have to buy your computer for Day One of school. Buy a Spiral Notebook for 50¢ and take notes that way.

[AidenShaw]

I think once 64 bit computering (software wise) is implemented properly it will be another good Apple thing.
Yes, once Apple properly implements 64-bit then the 64-bit Windows apps will be ported to the Mac.... ;)

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/c4d/64bit/64edition_e.html

Note for Apple users
Even though the G5 processors of the Apple Power Mac series are 64-Bit CPUs, 64-Bit applications are not entirely supported by the OS X operating system. Only command line based programs can take advantage of the 64-Bit memory adressroom. Programs with a graphical user interface (GUI) can only run in 32-Bit mode.

Therefore we can unfortunately not offer a 64-Bit version of CINEMA 4D for Macintosh.

[MacChicken]

...
the 800mhz fsb merom chips that intel will come out with next year will make yonah and merom almost obsolete in comparison and honestly the new merom chips are more marketing hype than performance when comparing them to their current yonah counterparts.
...


Thx for this good post atad6, I have a queston though: Is it only the FSB that will be faster next year? Does this make such a huge difference? Conroe has a 1066mhz FSB IIRC, still Merom is not obsolete in comparsion...

[mlrproducts]

I'll tell you one thing for sure - they need to have at least 1 model of the MacBook with a REAL GPU. Comeon apple, you nixed the 12" PB, and the 13" MB kinda replaced it on the high end. I'd give everything to have a real gpu again!

[milozauckerman]

I think that the $500-700 price gap between the choice of a notebook with a solution like integrated graphics that should be utterly abolished and any sort of actual dedicated graphics processor is just a bit too much of a jump to have to make.

The $500 MB/MBP gap is worth it to me (IMO), if not entirely justifiable by costs to Apple or overall features - the Express/34 is a big deal (eSATA for $100 or a fast CF card reader), discrete graphics, matte screen (pathetic that this is an upsell, yes) and, of course, 15.4" vs. 13".

Part of the problem is the black premium - the MacBook is a fine deal at $1299 but not so much at $1499, where it gets hard to ignore the extra features (and resale) of the MBP.

Ideally, would they ship me a black MacBook with an Express port, FW800 and discrete graphics? Sure. They could knock it down to $499, too, but I don't see it happening.

(all of this rests on the assumption that I'd buy an Apple laptop without 99% assurance it wasn't going to overheat, whine, moo or otherwise make me talk to an Apple 'genius' again)

[reflex]

Will these new processors be worth it to put my MacBook up for sale?

Not really, although that depends mostly on you. Can you stand not having the latest and greatest?

[reflex]

A lot of you seem to think that if you need the absolute fastest dual core computer, so does everyone else, which is not true.

I think it's more a case of people wanting a Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz mac with 4GB of ram and a 500GB hd for $499 :)

[Kelmon]

Merom soon makes sense--in the Pro models and maybe iMac.

I think we can all safely say that the iMac will see the Conroe processor and not Merom. Given that they were able to cram a hot G5 into an iMac I can't see them having any problems getting a cooler Conroe in there. The only question really is when and at what speeds.

With respect to the Merom MacBook Pro's, my credit card is on standby. Again.

[Erasmus]

Updated iMac -> Will get Conroe 2.66 Ghz 20" and 2.33 Ghz 17", also unlickely but possible introduction of iMac Extreme (23", Black, X1900, Core 2 Duo Extreme 2.99 Ghz)

OI!!!
My idea dammit! Intellectual property rights! I'll sue your donkey half way across the known universe! (Just use that one again cos its a good one)

I may settle for you buying me one maxed out. Maybe.

And its the iMac ULTRA. Spelt not E-X-T-R-E-M-E but U-L-T-R-A.
The name's shorter, suggests a faster computer, less clich&#234;, and has more impact value.

Grrr...

It's MY precious.

[ezekielrage_99]

I think it's more a case of people wanting a Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz mac with 4GB of ram and a 500GB hd for $499 :)

That sounds fair ;)

[mrzippy]

Well I sold my G5 PowerMac a couple of weeks ago in anticipation of Merom iMacs, so I have the money in the bank when they are released!

I know technically Merom chips are not that much faster than the Yonah but the iMac is due an update as it's 8 months old, so I wait.... and hope they get Conroe!

I use the wifes 17" iMac G5 in the meantime.

[BlizzardBomb]

Why does Core Solo have to go? It's a great chip, in the same general performance ballpark as a mid-range single G5. And once Intel drops the price on it, it will be an even better deal.

Not every computer shopper needs dual processors. There are low-end buyers out there too (just probably not here on MacRumors :) ).

Last months price drops just made the Core Solo look worse.

T1300 (Core Solo 1.66 GHz) - $209
T5500 (Core 2 Duo 1.66 GHz) - $209

If Intel keep that up then surely the Duo is a no-brainer.

[gnasher729]

The Core Duo and Core 2 Duo automatically reduce the clock speed when not needed as well. I think the 2 Ghz version cuts all the way back to 1.2 Ghz when not needed.

They also cut down the voltage, because you need less voltage when running at 1 GHz, and power consumption is proportional to clock speed times voltage times voltage. I have been told (but I couldn't find any information from Intel) that Core 2 Duo also can switch off parts of each core completely when they are not used to save even more power.

[arsonata]

I read an argument on here that the MBP case will not change because it needs to stay congruous with the Mac Pro case. I agree that it will look pretty much the same, but wouldn't it make sense to put in the new MB keyboard and the magnetic latch? In keeping the aluminum and the same speaker covers it will still be in the style of the Mac Pro.

...Nothing too special said here, but dammit, I just wanted to participate!!!




...I'm ...so ...lonely

[BornAgainMac]

I love my MBP but I am ready for a Mac Mini Pro. I have a 30 inch Cinema display that I would like it to support so I can sell my Powermac. A Mac Mini Pro should support (2) 3.5 Inch hard drives and a Superdrive and 4 GBs of memory and a ATI Radeon X1900 XT or at least one step up from the iMac. Bluetooth and 802.11a/b/g/n and generous supply of FW and USB 2.0 ports. Heck, throw in a 7-1 card reader to be built-in.


I don't care about the extra PCI Express slots. I didn't use the PCI-X slots on the Powermac. Don't need them.

[jameshopkins]

I am ready for a Mac Mini Pro. I have a 30 inch Cinema display that I would like it to support so I can sell my Powermac. A Mac Mini Pro should support (2) 3.5 Inch hard drives and a Superdrive and 4 GBs of memory and a ATI Radeon X1900 XT or at least one step up from the iMac. Bluetooth and 802.11a/b/g/n and generous supply of FW and USB 2.0 ports. Heck, throw in a 7-1 card reader to be built-in.


I don't care about the extra PCI Express slots. I didn't use the PCI-X slots on the Powermac. Don't need them.

You are in dream land my friend, I dont see them ever having a screen less mac between the iMac and the Mac Pro

Only a slightly cheaper Mac Pro, maybe with Conroe

[teme]

I love my MBP but I am ready for a Mac Mini Pro. I have a 30 inch Cinema display that I would like it to support so I can sell my Powermac. A Mac Mini Pro should support (2) 3.5 Inch hard drives and a Superdrive and 4 GBs of memory and a ATI Radeon X1900 XT or at least one step up from the iMac. Bluetooth and 802.11a/b/g/n and generous supply of FW and USB 2.0 ports. Heck, throw in a 7-1 card reader to be built-in.


That would be sweet, but I'm losing my hopes on that... guess I'll have to buy a PC.

[dernhelm]

I read an argument on here that the MBP case will not change because it needs to stay congruous with the Mac Pro case. I agree that it will look pretty much the same, but wouldn't it make sense to put in the new MB keyboard and the magnetic latch? In keeping the aluminum and the same speaker covers it will still be in the style of the Mac Pro.


Strange arguement. Who cares if the MBP case looks anything like the Mac Pro case? It isn't exactly a fashion accessory or anything... :D

The best arguements I've heard for Apple keeping their cases the same are:
1) It ain't broke, so don't fix it
2) They wanted the Intel macs to look exactly like the PowerPC-based macs, thereby giving the feeling of continuiity over the transition.

Over time I fully expect the MB and the MBP to converge in looks (externally) while diverging in capabilities (graphics, CPU speed, ports, etc). Apple does tend to have a similar design philosophy trend through their product line, but it is mostly of a "form follows function" type. It wouldn't suprise me if the MB and MBP moved away from aluminum and over to something sexier sounding (and perhaps more mar-resistant) like carbon fiber or something.

[Kelmon]

Over time I fully expect the MB and the MBP to converge in looks (externally) while diverging in capabilities (graphics, CPU speed, ports, etc). Apple does tend to have a similar design philosophy trend through their product line, but it is mostly of a "form follows function" type. It wouldn't suprise me if the MB and MBP moved away from aluminum and over to something sexier sounding (and perhaps more mar-resistant) like carbon fiber or something.

? Why would Apple choose to make their consumer and professional products look similar? People are already having problems deciding if a MacBook Pro is worth the money vs. the MacBook and making them physically look the same would only exacerbate the problem. Personally, if I'm going to pay top-dollar for a MacBook Pro I don't want it to look like a cheap(er) consumer laptop. While the iMac and Mac Pro clearly have different design concerns, I can't see the iMac ever adopting the Mac Pro metal case style and I can't see the Mac Pro suddenly going for a white plastic case either.

Product differentiation is important and blending them together just makes things more complicated for consumers.

[TangoCharlie]

Hoooray! Maybe all the "When is Merom coming out?" "Should I wait for Merom?" etc. threads will stop now. :rolleyes:

So, we know the MBP will get a boost.... but what about the iMac.... as I've said before I think it'll go Merom very soon.... and Conroe later. And what about the speculation for the MacBook?!

And to be completely reckless, what about more wide speculation concerning a new "Mac" to fill the gap between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro?! :)

[jameshopkins]

So, we know the MBP will get a boost.... but what about the iMac.... as I've said before I think it'll go Merom very soon.... and Conroe later. And what about the speculation for the MacBook?!

And to be completely reckless, what about more wide speculation concerning a new "Mac" to fill the gap between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro?! :)

I think the prices will drop on Yonah and Apple will stick with it until next Jan in all MacBooks.

MBP will defs go to Merom in sept, possibly top end iMac's too. I think putting Merom in the MacBook will cause even more people to choose MB over MBP. This is mainly semi-pro users.

I also dont think that any comparative (price) Dell's will have Merom in either.

I dont see a screen-less dektop between Mini and Pro happening, as it would effect iMac and Mac Pro sales.

[Whiteapple]

Sweet. I can wait till September 5th. It would be a nice birthday present to myself. :)

you, sir, were born on the same day of the year as me:(

[Whiteapple]

So, we know the MBP will get a boost.... but what about the iMac.... as I've said before I think it'll go Merom very soon.... and Conroe later. And what about the speculation for the MacBook?!

And to be completely reckless, what about more wide speculation concerning a new "Mac" to fill the gap between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro?! :)

Yes, can you imagine that the Intel(R) transition(R) is now complete?

Nahh...

I think we will see a "Mac" rather soon, so we get a true "every saga has a beginning" ermm, end I mean :p

Why wouldnt Apple use conroe? They can't put it in the iMacs, for cooling/space problems I suppose, so they'll have to release an Extreme Mini, or Cube rev 2.0.

Whatever happens, I'm saving for a custom 2.16Ghz Core 2 Duo Mac Mini, (instead of core solo 1.5).
And by the way, isn't the mac mini world's cheapest computer, in terms of number of OS s that you can run on the same machine?

[Meemoo]

Thx for this good post atad6, I have a queston though: Is it only the FSB that will be faster next year? Does this make such a huge difference? Conroe has a 1066mhz FSB IIRC, still Merom is not obsolete in comparsion...

Not to mention the PowerBook G4 had a 167MHz bus speed.

[macffooky]

I'm itching for a new iMac to replace my trusty eMac but I'm a-hopin' they go with Merom, at least initially as I'm sure they'd want to try a new design if they go with Conroe and I've no desire for my machine for the next three years to be a Rev A ;)

[neonfever]

I read an argument on here that the MBP case will not change because it needs to stay congruous with the Mac Pro case. I agree that it will look pretty much the same, but wouldn't it make sense to put in the new MB keyboard and the magnetic latch? In keeping the aluminum and the same speaker covers it will still be in the style of the Mac Pro.

...Nothing too special said here, but dammit, I just wanted to participate!!!




...I'm ...so ...lonely

I totally agree they need to fix their latch design big time. But with the MBP spanning up to 17", i don't think a magnetic latch would be very ideal considering how wobbly the screen already is. It needs something that will just let it go rather than requiring a small amount of force by the user to open it up. With the macbook having a plastic enclosure and being only 13" I think the magnetic system works great. I think the have a great latch design at the moment...but they need improve on quality control and assembly big time... what really lets the MBP down at the moment IMO is not how it was designed, but how it's built.

[ro2nie]

This is good news, but I've gotta wait for Leopard, iLife07 and Clovertown processors to come out, before I spend my money in a new Mac...

[playaj82]

This is good news, but I've gotta wait for Leopard, iLife07 and Clovertown processors to come out, before I spend my money in a new Mac...

Sounds like you are waiting at least another year before buying a new mac

[Josias]

I would mostly like an iMac. My next Mac is definiantly gonna be an iMac. Largest size. Everything maxed out, except perhaps HDD.:D I dunno if I wanna take a core 2, or wait for Core 3, I will pass my MB onto my brother very soon...:D

[milo]

No Conroe Macs?

Not yet. I'm sure we'll see them, but Apple can't update every single mac at once. Not to mention that conroe just started shipping and isn't that widely available yet. (Are there conroe dells yet?)

I'll bet iMac gets it at some point, and maybe mini as well. And if not mini, a new mid-level model.

so does this mean merom macbooks also

Doubt it. At least not just yet.

I thought "Core 2 Duo" was intended to be a desktop chip, and "Core Duo" was the laptop version.

If this is not the case, what was the point of the "Core Duo" ?

Nope. There are mobile and desktop versions of Core 2. The point of Core Duo was that it was the first one released, and Core 2 is newer and better.

As for the core solo, I'd like to see it stay if it means that they can drop the mini to $499 or less. I'd love to see them do that and add a third middle model (solo 1.5/duo 1.6/duo 2.16).

[danielwsmithee]

Not to mention that conroe just started shipping and isn't that widely available yet. (Are there conroe dells yet?)Conroe based machines have been shipping through Dell, HP, Gateway and many other companies for close to a month now. Conroe was available about a month ago while Merom is not yet shipping in mass quantities.

It would be a a shame if Apple does not use Conroe in something because it is the desktop chip with the largest market. My guess is they will use it in the iMac as I stated earlier. It appears they are just waiting for the opportune moment to announce it. They wanted to wait for a little while after the Mac Pro was announced to get as many people as possible to move up to the more expensive system. I'm still holding out for a headless Conroe based "Mac" though.

[milo]

The nano was introduced in September 2005 (http://www.apple-history.com/?page=gallery&model=ipod_mini) and, if the mini example is to be repeated, the nano would be retired in May 2007.

Nobody expects the nano to be retired any time soon. A september release would be either a capacity bump or a minor update to the design. It would still be a nano.

I'm glad because I thought going from 64bit G5 to 32bit Intel seemed like a step back, and yes I know it isn't it's just the perception.

A step back on what? The iMac? How exactly are the intel iMacs "a step back" from the G5s? Specifically, how can the user tell AT ALL that they're using a 32 bit machine instead of 64?

you are so right. apple is skimping on graphics across the board. take a look at the lousy basic cards they put in the Mac Pro.

That "lousy" card saves a few hundred bucks. If they shipped with a better card, it would just raise the base price of the machine and users who didn't want to spend that money (like me) would end up downgrading the card anyway to get the current base price. It's a moot point, like it makes no difference if the base model is the 2.0 or 2.6 as long as you can upgrade or downgrade.

I think we can all safely say that the iMac will see the Conroe processor and not Merom.

We can't safely say anything. Conroe would be a smart choice, but in the short term, they could release a merom model - upgrading to conroe requires a new mobo, merom doesn't. Right now, nobody knows.

You are in dream land my friend, I dont see them ever having a screen less mac between the iMac and the Mac Pro

And we think you're in dream land. There's really no argument for apple NOT doing that other than "are you nuts? they'll never do that!" Which isn't really an argument.

Why wouldnt Apple use conroe? They can't put it in the iMacs, for cooling/space problems I suppose, so they'll have to release an Extreme Mini, or Cube rev 2.0.

Conroe doesn't take any more space than merom. And the jury is still out on whether the iMac can handle the cooling - I'd be surprised if it can't handle it, considering how hot the G5 is. I think we'll definitely see conroe in the iMac eventually, the big question is whether it will be soon, or if there will be a stopgap merom model first.

[fixyourthinking]

While these new processors are a substantial leap forward in speed they are not a tremendous leap forward in actual Ghz ... what the public will go by. Apple will most likely have to add something else to each system instead of just bumping the processor to Core 2's.

[BRLawyer]

Yes, once Apple properly implements 64-bit then the 64-bit Windows apps will be ported to the Mac.... ;)

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/c4d/64bit/64edition_e.html

Note for Apple users
Even though the G5 processors of the Apple Power Mac series are 64-Bit CPUs, 64-Bit applications are not entirely supported by the OS X operating system. Only command line based programs can take advantage of the 64-Bit memory adressroom. Programs with a graphical user interface (GUI) can only run in 32-Bit mode.

Therefore we can unfortunately not offer a 64-Bit version of CINEMA 4D for Macintosh.

Notwithstanding the fact that 64-bit computing is totally irrelevant for 99% of computer users, a bit of reality check is always good...Leopard is miles ahead of Vista in terms of 64-bit support.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33666

[Thanatoast]

And we think you're in dream land. There's really no argument for apple NOT doing that other than "are you nuts? they'll never do that!" Which isn't really an argument.
Except for cutting into their sales of iMacs and Mac Pros.

Would *I* like a mid-level mac tower? Yes, but that doesn't mean Apple hasn't run the numbers and found they can make more money doing what they're doing now.

[teme]

Except for cutting into their sales of iMacs and Mac Pros.


I just can't understand this argument. How does it hurt Apple if they sell a one iMac less and one MacTower more? It's sales and profit for Apple anyway. Right now they are hurting themselves because they aren't offering enough selections to satisfy different customers' different needs.

[milo]

Except for cutting into their sales of iMacs and Mac Pros.

Which isn't an issue as long as the new box has similar profit margins. Sure, some buyers would buy a minitower instead of one of the other models. But you'd also increase mac sales overall by attracting buyers who haven't bought a mac *at all* because there isn't a model that fits their needs. Better selection of models is also attractive to mac buyers on the fence about buying a second machine. (I notice that you don't mention that it would probably also cut into sales of the cheaper minis as well!)

It's foolish to worry about cannibalizing sales of macs when it means missing the opportunity to get more switchers from PC. Using that logic, should Apple discontinue the mini and macbook? After all, don't they cut into sales of the MPB and Mac Pro?

[riversky]

Don't worry, they won't change the case. There's not even a chance. The Mac Pro is all the proof you need. Aluminum is perfect! :)

I think they will stay Aluminum but they will adopt the keyboard style of the MacBook and the Mag case close latch. Also new GPU's and perhaps a new feature we don't know about.

Reason is they rushed the MacBook Pro to market in Jan just to get the Intel transition started.

The REAL next gen MacBook Pro is coming.

[Bengt77]

I think the iMac will get the x1800 when it goes Core 2 Duo next month.
:D That's about all I have to add for now. That would totally make my day. My money is patiently awaiting the arrival of the new Core 2 Duo iMacs. Well, it's getting somewhat less patient every day...

[jholzner]

Look at Apple's Back-to-School Program and you will know when the iPod will become End-Of-Life: Last year, iPod mini was offer as free (4GB model) when a student/educator bought a Mac. Within a week after the program end day, it gone and iPod nano was introduced.

Looking at this year program and you can professionally predict what would happen.

Actually, the Nano was introduced two weeks BEFORE the promo ended. However, even after the intro of the Nano, the promo was only good for the mini.

[Thanatoast]

It's foolish to worry about cannibalizing sales of macs when it means missing the opportunity to get more switchers from PC. Using that logic, should Apple discontinue the mini and macbook? After all, don't they cut into sales of the MPB and Mac Pro?
Ya'll forgot the second part of my post. If Apple runs the numbers and thinks they can make more money selling a tower, they will. If not, they won't.

[vega07]

the wait is killing me...literally.

[arsonata]

I think they will stay Aluminum but they will adopt the keyboard style of the MacBook and the Mag case close latch. Also new GPU's and perhaps a new feature we don't know about.

Reason is they rushed the MacBook Pro to market in Jan just to get the Intel transition started.

The REAL next gen MacBook Pro is coming.

Yeahhhhhhhhhh. The MacBook Pro was obviously rushed. The heat issue is clue number one. And with the consumer MacBook having the new-and-improved keyboard and latch, things are all backwards and it will have to change. But it will probably have the same basic outer design.

As for the innards, I hope they shuffle things around on the inside so it doesn't get so hot. Cuz that thing is scorching.

[viccles]

Yeahhhhhhhhhh. The MacBook Pro was obviously rushed. The heat issue is clue number one. And with the consumer MacBook having the new-and-improved keyboard and latch, things are all backwards and it will have to change. But it will probably have the same basic outer design.

As for the innards, I hope they shuffle things around on the inside so it doesn't get so hot. Cuz that thing is scorching.

Whats wrong with the current keyboard? I'd hate if they changed it.

[DeVizardofOZ]

CPU-History Content Sockel means socket
History
X86 1978 - 1989 4004, 8086, 8088, 286, 386
Sockel 1,2,3 1989 - 1993 486
Sockel 4,5 1993 - 1997 586, K5, Pentium
AMD
Sockel 7 1998 - 2000 686, K6, K6-II, K6-III
Slot A 1999 - 2000 Athlon, Duron
Sockel A 2000 - 2004 Athlon, Athlon XP, Duron
Sockel 940 2003 - 2004 Athlon 64 FX
Sockel 754 2003 - 2006 Athlon 64, Sempron, Sempron 64
Sockel 939 2004 - 2006 Athlon 64, Athlon FX, Sempron
Sockel AM2 2006 - heute Athlon 64, Athlon 64 FX, Sempron64
Intel
Sockel 7 1994 - 1997 Pentium, Pentium MMX
Slot 1 1997 - 2000 Pentium II, Pentium III, Celeron
Sockel 370 1998 - 2001 Pentium III, Tualatin, Celeron
Sockel 423 2000 - 2001 Pentium 4
Sockel 478 2001 - 2004 Pentium 4, Pentium 4 Extreme, Celeron
Sockel 775 2004 - heute Pentium 4, Pentium 4 Extreme, Celeron D, Core 2

:D

[rsanuri]

OI!!!
My idea dammit! Intellectual property rights! I'll sue your donkey half way across the known universe! (Just use that one again cos its a good one)

I may settle for you buying me one maxed out. Maybe.

And its the iMac ULTRA. Spelt not E-X-T-R-E-M-E but U-L-T-R-A.
The name's shorter, suggests a faster computer, less clichê, and has more impact value.

Grrr...

It's MY precious.

Would be more interesting if this 23" iMac will be call iMac Pro...
that would be awesome....

Rsanuri

[ariechel]

Which isn't an issue as long as the new box has similar profit margins. Sure, some buyers would buy a minitower instead of one of the other models. But you'd also increase mac sales overall by attracting buyers who haven't bought a mac *at all* because there isn't a model that fits their needs. Better selection of models is also attractive to mac buyers on the fence about buying a second machine. (I notice that you don't mention that it would probably also cut into sales of the cheaper minis as well!)

It's foolish to worry about cannibalizing sales of macs when it means missing the opportunity to get more switchers from PC. Using that logic, should Apple discontinue the mini and macbook? After all, don't they cut into sales of the MPB and Mac Pro?

Maintaining an additional product line (the minitower) is expensive from a number of perspectives: it will require separate research and development, separate support, separate logistics (e.g., warehousing of parts unique to the product line), and separate marketing. The trick is balancing the costs and benefits of market segmentation. As Thanatoast noted, "Apple has done the numbers and found they can make more money doing what they're doing now."

[Am3822]

Will the introduction of the merom CPUs start a whole new 'Rev. A.' cycle?

[btgordon]

Will the introduction of the merom CPUs start a whole new 'Rev. A.' cycle?

Maybe, maybe not. While any hardware change can introduce problems, this change will not be nearly as radical, I don't think. The previous rev. a problems were from going for a PPC architecture to an intel one. This change is just going to be from intel to intel, with the same socket no less. While there is always the chance they will introduce other hardware changes, I would expect this next "rev A" to be less trouble prone.

[milo]

Ya'll forgot the second part of my post. If Apple runs the numbers and thinks they can make more money selling a tower, they will. If not, they won't.

I didn't forget it, I just don't agree with it. I think when apple runs the numbers, they will see that a tower will make them more money overall. And don't forget, "running the numbers" is really just speculation. There's no way to know for sure without actually releasing the machine.

Maintaining an additional product line (the minitower) is expensive from a number of perspectives: it will require separate research and development, separate support, separate logistics (e.g., warehousing of parts unique to the product line), and separate marketing. The trick is balancing the costs and benefits of market segmentation.

A valid point, but a minitower has the potential to be the cheapest Mac yet to design and manufacture. Apple could use stock intel mobo designs with very little modification, and basic cases. It wouldn't have the miniaturization issues of a laptop or mini and wouldn't need to be as optimized as the Pro. There will obviously be costs involved with releasing *any* product, but they'd be covered easily with the increased sales.

[Diatribe]

I think a lot of people would be getting second Macs if they did that.

If they'd offer a core duo, say 1.66, as the lowest config for $499 they'd have themselves a customer that second. Would be perfect for a future-proof media center and a second Mac.

[zync]

Whats wrong with the current keyboard? I'd hate if they changed it.

Definitely! I love my PowerBook keyboard. They should tout it as a feature. It is the smoothest keyboard I've ever typed on (and I have typed on a MacBook).

[3CCD]

If they put merom in MB I'll be disappointed. I mean right now when I look at the MB and the MBP I don't see any justification to by a MBP except for the fact that the MBP is goregous with the aluminum enclosure.

[viccles]

If they put merom in MB I'll be disappointed. I mean right now when I look at the MB and the MBP I don't see any justification to by a MBP except for the fact that the MBP is goregous with the aluminum enclosure.

And the bigger screen. Trust me I nearly went the black MB because I dont really need a MBP with what I do but the MBP is absolutely georgeous and I would have regret if I didnt go with the MBP

[damienvfx]

You are all crazy.

I was one of you too. I have been waiting for about a month to buy the new merom macbook but it's driven me insane! I just checked out what you are all selling on ebay and you must be nuts to be dropping your machines at the rates you all are.

Well, I'll happily bid on your cheap macbook pro and someday I'll bid on your merom too.

[skeep5]

You are all crazy.

I was one of you too. I have been waiting for about a month to buy the new merom macbook but it's driven me insane! I just checked out what you are all selling on ebay and you must be nuts to be dropping your machines at the rates you all are.

Well, I'll happily bid on your cheap macbook pro and someday I'll bid on your merom too.

I've got a 2005 1.67 G4 Powerbook 17"... if you're interested. Me likey Merom...mmmmmmmmm merrrrooommmmm (drool)

--B

[Gundampilotspaz]

Damn it, I was looking forward to ording a Macbook in a few days. Now I have to wait till September!

[viccles]

You are all crazy.

I was one of you too. I have been waiting for about a month to buy the new merom macbook but it's driven me insane! I just checked out what you are all selling on ebay and you must be nuts to be dropping your machines at the rates you all are.

Well, I'll happily bid on your cheap macbook pro and someday I'll bid on your merom too.

I'm not waiting for merom I already have my MBP on order

[KingYaba]

I'm not waiting for merom I already have my MBP on order
I wish I could do that. But I need to save a little more money so I figure just wait.

[viccles]

I wish I could do that. But I need to save a little more money so I figure just wait.

All this talk about merom is making me want to cancel my order and wait!

[MartyMoe]

Sweet. I can wait till September 5th. It would be a nice birthday present to myself.
you, sir, were born on the same day of the year as me:(


Me too-- do you think we can get a volume discount?? :D

[Am3822]

If they put merom in MB I'll be disappointed. I mean right now when I look at the MB and the MBP I don't see any justification to by a MBP except for the fact that the MBP is goregous with the aluminum enclosure.

Another difference is that MB has an integrated graphics adaptor, whereas the MBP uses a dedicated card. I am told that this difference becomes very noticeable in applications requiring 3D acceleration.

[DeVizardofOZ]

the ultimate 17" MBP

Two, maybe four, reasons for me to wait until 2007.
1. Merom 64Bit processing power (it is just the better chip for the same price...
2. 800MHz frontside bus...
3. maybe a 1920x1??? screen... just more real-estate....
4. and finally the possibilty to install 4 Gig of fast RAM...

If, and when, at least 1. and 2. becomes reality, that is my machina:p
Actually I am happy to wait, because maybe, just maybe the new revs are going to have
no mooing, whining, heat, and else, -issues...

Hope they (APPLE) get their act together and sort ALL problems out.

CIAO:D

[ZoomZoomZoom]

I just want Merom and x1800 before 2007. A new enclosure would be nice too, because I have acidic skin. Everything beyond that is icing on the cake. Just implementing the first two would make me about $2500 poorer the moment Rev B MBPs hit the refurb page.

[nomad01]

Notwithstanding the fact that 64-bit computing is totally irrelevant for 99% of computer users, a bit of reality check is always good...Leopard is miles ahead of Vista in terms of 64-bit support.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33666

Yes but when one of your biggest pleasures in life is bitching about Apple on an Apple forum, it's nice to ignore things like that. ;-)

[jaduffy108]

God, I hope so. Student loan money is hittin' soon, and will be burning a hole in my pocket (that is, the painfully finite chunk of it that won't be ear marked for law school tuition, books, rent, and food :( ).


### "food"??? C'mon...get your priorities straight!

[cheunghy]

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=15590

Hope Apple will hold a media event instead... (just like they did in 2005)

[aswitcher]

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=15590

Hope Apple will hold a media event instead... (just like they did in 2005)


I hold a suspicion that Steve is trying to move other Apple staff into the public helm of Apple so he can step back a bit.

[rjc]

I think when apple runs the numbers, they will see that a tower will make them more money overall. And don't forget, "running the numbers" is really just speculation. There's no way to know for sure without actually releasing the machine.

...a minitower has the potential to be the cheapest Mac yet to design and manufacture. Apple could use stock intel mobo designs with very little modification, and basic cases. It wouldn't have the miniaturization issues of a laptop or mini and wouldn't need to be as optimized as the Pro. There will obviously be costs involved with releasing *any* product, but they'd be covered easily with the increased sales.

I don't think increased sales are necessarily going to come--the set of people who want more power than the Mini, but less than the Mac Pro, and don't want a monitor, AND who up to this point have walked away from buying a Mac altogether because of this gap in their products--that's a small group. Plus Apple loses the Mac Pro buyers who don't need quite that much power, so their margins go down there (there are fewer people who buy the Mini when they'd rather buy a minitower: people are more likely to buy more computer than they need than less computer than they need). I understand that you disagree with this estimate, which is idle speculation.

A more cogent reason why the minitower won't exist: Apple has worked very hard to simplify their product line. They think they gain some advantage by having a small line of products--they don't confuse their customers, and they make choices easy. They are not going to add another computer into that lineup unless they have a compelling reason (not just breaking even or making slightly more money).

The most likely outcome that's somewhat close to what you're looking for, Milo, is a faster Mini (in that same form factor)--something comparable to the iMac or MBP in power.

[Multimedia]

No Jobs keynote at Apple Expo Paris (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=15590)

Hope Apple will hold a media event instead... (just like they did in 2005)Worse. No Keynote at Paris Apple Expo by ANYONE (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1980). :( :eek: :confused:

So much for that deadline. Wonder if the Core 2 launch will be before, during or after Paris Apple Expo?

[generik]

the ultimate 17" MBP

Two, maybe four, reasons for me to wait until 2007.
1. Merom 64Bit processing power (it is just the better chip for the same price...
2. 800MHz frontside bus...
3. maybe a 1920x1??? screen... just more real-estate....
4. and finally the possibilty to install 4 Gig of fast RAM...

If, and when, at least 1. and 2. becomes reality, that is my machina:p
Actually I am happy to wait, because maybe, just maybe the new revs are going to have
no mooing, whining, heat, and else, -issues...

Hope they (APPLE) get their act together and sort ALL problems out.

CIAO:D

I have no idea if you are trolling or what..

1) Merom will be out SOON, in 2006 that is
2) 2GB of ram for my Conroe PC recently costed me USD$300. It is DDR2 800Mhz modules, care to give a guess how much these will cost when the Sodimm ones come out?
2.1) What will be the performance advantage purely from the higher FSB? Tons of prior experience in this field, I can assure you, no more than 3%.
3) You need Leopard to take advantage of that anyway.
4) There is nothing about "32 bits" that prevents you from installing 4GB of ram. Apple choose to disable it, and they can disable it then as well.

From 1 and 2, why not just go onto the slippery slope and go "Oh, I will wait for Intel to translate technologies from CLOVERTOWN to their mobile line, I will wait for 8MB cache, Quad core mobile CPUs running at 20W!

You are in for a long wait buddy, (2) is not even a worthwhile point at all. Either way it is your time and your money, if you can afford to wait almost 8 months for something, why not just save the money and buy a Chinese made car in Shanghai?

CIAO :D

[rgriffin]

Does anyone think that with the Core 2 Duo chip Apple may increase the ram to 4GB max? Right now Dell, HP, and Asus notebooks (and probably some others) have a 4GB ceiling. It would be nice to have that option with the MacBook "Pro" (I'm still looking for significant differences between Macbook Pro and Macbook).

[daveL]

Worse. No Keynote at Paris Apple Expo by ANYONE (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1980). :( :eek: :confused:

So much for that deadline. Wonder if the Core 2 launch will be before, during or after Paris Apple Expo?
Why does a Jonah -> Merom update beg for a Keynote or "special event"? The two chips are pin compatible. I don't see Apple updating enclosures or motherboards. This is simply a 20% speed bump for all intents and purposes. Sure Merom is 64bit, but I don't think Apple will hype that fact until Leopard is released. Just my take, of course.

[KingYaba]

I only expect a "silent" upgrade as others have said. One day you'll venture to Apple's website and you will notice the MacBook Pro has a new processor. :)

[generik]

Does anyone think that with the Core 2 Duo chip Apple may increase the ram to 4GB max? Right now Dell, HP, and Asus notebooks (and probably some others) have a 4GB ceiling. It would be nice to have that option with the MacBook "Pro" (I'm still looking for significant differences between Macbook Pro and Macbook).

Yonahs already support 4GB of memory, it is just that Apple's engineers choose to "think different" and not implement it.

[daveL]

Yonahs already support 4GB of memory, it is just that Apple's engineers choose to "think different" and not implement it.
I think you'll find that, when 2 GB sticks are available, you'll be able to access 4 GB just fine. Apple tends to spec max memory based on the largest commonly available memory stick capacity x the number of sticks the machine will accommodate when it is introduced. There's nothing engineered into the design to prohibit you from using larger memory sticks down the road. I dare say I could probably put 2 x 1 GB in my 4 year old TiBook, but 1 GB sticks didn't exist then, so Apple spec'ed my machine as having 1 GB max memory. YMMV.

[RichP]

Someone on here has tried the 2GB sticks, they dont work (also cost a pretty penny)

To realistically have 4GB, you need 4 sockets.

I think you'll find that, when 2 GB sticks are available, you'll be able to access 4 GB just fine. Apple tends to spec max memory based on the largest commonly available memory stick capacity x the number of sticks the machine will accommodate when it is introduced. There's nothing engineered into the design to prohibit you from using larger memory sticks down the road. I dare say I could probably put 2 x 1 GB in my 4 year old TiBook, but 1 GB sticks didn't exist then, so Apple spec'ed my machine as having 1 GB max memory. YMMV.

[generik]

Someone on here has tried the 2GB sticks, they dont work (also cost a pretty penny)

To realistically have 4GB, you need 4 sockets.

Are the 2GB sticks electrically different or something? I still don't understand why they didn't work.

[zync]

A more cogent reason why the minitower won't exist: Apple has worked very hard to simplify their product line. They think they gain some advantage by having a small line of products--they don't confuse their customers, and they make choices easy. They are not going to add another computer into that lineup unless they have a compelling reason (not just breaking even or making slightly more money)..

You know that's really interesting. If you keep up with Apple at all you can probably remember nearly every computer they've introduced within the last three years and what their specs were.

That's pretty powerful mindshare. I mean, my only recent Apple computer is my PowerBook and yet I still know nearly every model of every product Apple has produced since I switched in 2003.

I doubt I could keep up with the rapidly changing lines of Dell PoCs (Pieces of Crap) or those of any manufacturer other than Apple. And it's not simply that Apple has introduced less products. It probably helps that Apple uses names like PowerBook instead of Dell blah blah 120xxx blah blah....of course some companies use that horrible naming scheme to their advantage *cough* Intel *cough*.

[DeVizardofOZ]

Yonahs already support 4GB of memory, it is just that Apple's engineers choose to "think different" and not implement it.

Hey Generik!

1. I wait until APPLE sorts out all the problems, which are surely QC related.
2. I wait until APPLE engineers do decide to allow for at least 4 Gig of RAM, as others do
already, why not APPLE???
3. I wait until they do something about the cheap plastic top plate, which I have
seen on many PBs and MBPs scratching way too easily. That plate is just not matching the overall
form factor and quality appearance. And of course, they may want to do somthing about the design and soft
Aluminum they presently use.
4. I wait for the 800 MHz FSB, which in conjunction with 4Gig of Ram and the 64Bit Merom will do the trick for me.
5. ASUS, the maker of APPLEs offers a Lamborghini laptop with a NVidia GeForce Go7400
VX 512MB with TurboCache™.... Why can't APPLE do that? What do their engineers
think?
6. APPLE could now easily offer the best and fastest laptops on the globe, for you and me
and for the PRO's. What do they offer? 3 laps. Yes, a superior OS, a basically nice design, but low
quality hardware. Backlighting problems, wobbling screens, because of a technically bad hinge
desing that needs to be improved, a keyboard, which could be much better in terms of
quality. Harddrives which die after 1 or 2 years... and so on. You may forgive APPLE for
delivering plenty of lemons, I see no reason to spend my hard earned money for that.

Anyhow, you do what you please, I can afford to wait a bit longer. 1st quarter 07 is fine with me.

Best
:p

[generik]

Hey Generik!
1. I wait until APPLE sorts out all the problems, which are surely QC related.


I doubt they are QC related, more like stupid design related.


2. I wait until APPLE engineers do decide to allow for at least 4 Gig of RAM, as others do
already, why not APPLE???


There is also this thing known as the Mac Pro......

In fact if you like ram so much go buy a Opteron laptop, Intel machines don't scale very well for large amounts of ram.


3. I wait until they do something about the cheap plastic top plate, which I have
seen on many PBs and MBPs scratching way too easily. That plate is just not matching the overall
form factor and quality appearance. And of course, they may want to do somthing about the design and soft
Aluminum they presently use.


I hate the aluminium like the other guy as well, but what's this hogwash about a plastic plate? It has been more than confirmed by many that it is not a plastic plate.



4. I wait for the 800 MHz FSB, which in conjunction with 4Gig of Ram and the 64Bit Merom will do the trick for me.


What trick? What can you do with a 800Mhz FSB that you can't do with a 667Mhz FSB? Perhaps you should find reviews for the speed gains going from a 533Mhz bus to a 667 bus (hint: not significant, at all)

In fact the current 2gb limitation HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 64 BITS AT ALL. Geez, I am really so tired of stressing this old point.


5. ASUS, the maker of APPLEs offers a Lamborghini laptop with a NVidia GeForce Go7400
VX 512MB with TurboCache™.... Why can't APPLE do that? What do their engineers
think?


You really bought into the koolaid, what's with the (tm) even in your quote? Why not just buy the Asus Lamborghini and then download MacOS and install on it?

Hey, it is against the EULA, but you are in China, like there is a chance in hell Apple is going to win a lawsuit over intellectual property against you there, if they do decide to sue you.


6. APPLE could now easily offer the best and fastest laptops on the globe, for you and me
and for the PRO's. What do they offer? 3 laps. Yes, a superior OS, a basically nice design, but low
quality hardware. Backlighting problems, wobbling screens, because of a technically bad hinge
desing that needs to be improved, a keyboard, which could be much better in terms of
quality. Harddrives which die after 1 or 2 years... and so on. You may forgive APPLE for
delivering plenty of lemons, I see no reason to spend my hard earned money for that.


Erm... low quality, in comparison to what? Dells?

If you are comparing to Thinkpads, mind you, Thinkpads ship with really crap LCD panels, the only thing going for it is the tough chasis and the really good keyboard, but all thanks to the new chinese company, the newer batches are starting to be crap too.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the Thinkpads costs $400 more for a 1.83Ghz model than the upper model 15" MBP, and oh yeah, the Thinkpads use Hitachi drives, doesn't Deathstar ring a bell?

If you want to save your hard earned money then buy a Dell, or buy something else. If your money is truly so hard earned perhaps you should not buy a Apple.

For the record I have a Macbook ordered which will be sold on eBay within 2 weeks, it is just going to tide me until the next MBP Rev. Quality issues? Well, I couldn't care less. 800Mhz FSB, well I couldn't care less either. Unlike you, if I am unhappy with something I will just sell it and get another one. Educational discount for the win.


Anyhow, you do what you please, I can afford to wait a bit longer. 1st quarter 07 is fine with me.


Fine, do what you please, don't tell us what you plan to do though. /signed not interested.

[generik]

It probably helps that Apple uses names like PowerBook instead of Dell blah blah 120xxx blah blah....of course some companies use that horrible naming scheme to their advantage *cough* Intel *cough*.

Is this even a legitimate point?

When people ask you "So.. what Mac you use?", you answer "I use a Mac Pro", does it make a lot of sense? Which Mac Pro? The 2.0Ghz model? The 2.66Ghz model? The 3Ghz model? What graphics card? What memory configuration?

With regards to your point regarding naming, newsflash: Dell laptops only have *two* names, Inspiron and XPS. How hard is it to grasp?

[Clydefrog]

latitude:D

[zync]

3. I wait until they do something about the cheap plastic top plate, which I have
seen on many PBs and MBPs scratching way too easily. That plate is just not matching the overall
form factor and quality appearance. And of course, they may want to do somthing about the design and soft
Aluminum they presently use.

I have just one quibble with your post. Soft aluminum my ass! I pulled out my PowerBook once while it was in my bag and under a table. It hit the support under the table incredibly hard. I was scared when I saw a black spot on my PowerBook's screen edge. Upon closer inspection, it had removed the paint from the steel support. My PowerBook was completely undamaged. The PowerBook's aluminum is anything but soft. And the top of mine has never scratched.

Since your argument is all about other manufacturers, would you rather have your PowerBook made completely out of plastic? I'm sure that would be way more scratch resistant than aluminum :rolleyes:

[zync]

Is this even a legitimate point?

When people ask you "So.. what Mac you use?", you answer "I use a Mac Pro", does it make a lot of sense? Which Mac Pro? The 2.0Ghz model? The 2.66Ghz model? The 3Ghz model? What graphics card? What memory configuration?

With regards to your point regarding naming, newsflash: Dell laptops only have *two* names, Inspiron and XPS. How hard is it to grasp?

As the poster below you said what about Latitude? I owned a Latitude CPiD. They had Latitudes that were CPx, CP whatever, then they had some with numbers and letters. When someone asks me what Mac Pro I use I would tell them Mac Pro 3.0GHz....is that so hard to grasp? Everything else people usually change on other BTO options on ANY manufacturer so you'd always have to tell them what the other options are if asked.

It's not that there are three lines, it's the fact that there are hundreds of models in the same line. Apple's lines change when there is a new processor. It seems like Dell makes a new model for every build to order option. Also, their lines make no sense. An Inspiron, could be any shape or size. Their lines aren't even related to what the computer looks like but instead to what function it serves, which is somewhat stupid as you can't connect Inspiron with a model like you can with iBook.

If I tell someone I have a 15" PowerBook G4 1.25GHz, they know exactly what machine I have. What's the difference between an Inspiron B130 and an Inspiron E1505? They have even stopped simply using numbers for Inspiron designations and have added letters into the mix.

If however I asked you what the difference between a 15" PowerBook G4 1GHz, and a 15" PowerBook G4 1.5Ghz, you should be able to tell me most of the differences.

My point was completely valid. Apple's naming scheme is much better than Dell's ridiculous naming scheme. If my point was not legitimate I would not have said it.

[Clydefrog]

As the poster below you said what about Latitude? I owned a Latitude CPiD. They had Latitudes that were CPx, CP whatever, then they had some with numbers and letters. When someone asks me what Mac Pro I use I would tell them Mac Pro 3.0GHz....is that so hard to grasp? Everything else people usually change on other BTO options on ANY manufacturer so you'd always have to tell them what the other options are if asked.

It's not that there are three lines, it's the fact that there are hundreds of models in the same line. Apple's lines change when there is a new processor. It seems like Dell makes a new model for every build to order option. Also, their lines make no sense. An Inspiron, could be any shape or size. Their lines aren't even related to what the computer looks like but instead to what function it serves, which is somewhat stupid as you can't connect Inspiron with a model like you can with iBook.

If I tell someone I have a 15" PowerBook G4 1.25GHz, they know exactly what machine I have. What's the difference between an Inspiron B130 and an Inspiron E1505? They have even stopped simply using numbers for Inspiron designations and have added letters into the mix.

If however I asked you what the difference between a 15" PowerBook G4 1GHz, and a 15" PowerBook G4 1.5Ghz, you should be able to tell me most of the differences.

My point was completely valid. Apple's naming scheme is much better than Dell's ridiculous naming scheme. If my point was not legitimate I would not have said it.

well put. its better than having a naming scheme like Mac Pro 3.1.250.XTX.BA

[generik]

My point was completely valid. Apple's naming scheme is much better than Dell's ridiculous naming scheme. If my point was not legitimate I would not have said it.

I wouldn't blame Dell's poor naming scheme, I do find fault that you would make out Apple's lack of naming to be a good(tm) thing.

So I have a Macbook Pro, "Which Macbook Pro?", "Oh.. the 2.0Ghz one", "You mean the first batch where the 2.0Ghz model is the upper model and has a 256MB of VRAM, or the later 2.0Ghz model where it is the lower model and came with 128MB of VRAM? Does yours whine?"

Apple has NO naming scheme. If you can't stand the other manufacturers using model numbers just refer to them by their generic name, it is the exact same thing as what Apple is doing. Can't stand Latitude CPx? Call it a Dell Latitude then. "CPx" is as much of an identifier to "Latitude" as "2.0Ghz, 128MB Vram, Whines" is to "Macbook Pro".

[daveL]

I wouldn't blame Dell's poor naming scheme, I do find fault that you would make out Apple's lack of naming to be a good(tm) thing.

So I have a Macbook Pro, "Which Macbook Pro?", "Oh.. the 2.0Ghz one", "You mean the first batch where the 2.0Ghz model is the upper model and has a 256MB of VRAM, or the later 2.0Ghz model where it is the lower model and came with 128MB of VRAM? Does yours whine?"

Apple has NO naming scheme. If you can't stand the other manufacturers using model numbers just refer to them by their generic name, it is the exact same thing as what Apple is doing. Can't stand Latitude CPx? Call it a Dell Latitude then. "CPx" is as much of an identifier to "Latitude" as "2.0Ghz, 128MB Vram, Whines" is to "Macbook Pro".
You guys need to get a life. Who gives a crap? Not to mention this entire dialog is completely OT.

[zync]

I wouldn't blame Dell's poor naming scheme, I do find fault that you would make out Apple's lack of naming to be a good(tm) thing.

So I have a Macbook Pro, "Which Macbook Pro?", "Oh.. the 2.0Ghz one", "You mean the first batch where the 2.0Ghz model is the upper model and has a 256MB of VRAM, or the later 2.0Ghz model where it is the lower model and came with 128MB of VRAM? Does yours whine?"

Apple has NO naming scheme. If you can't stand the other manufacturers using model numbers just refer to them by their generic name, it is the exact same thing as what Apple is doing. Can't stand Latitude CPx? Call it a Dell Latitude then. "CPx" is as much of an identifier to "Latitude" as "2.0Ghz, 128MB Vram, Whines" is to "Macbook Pro".

I still disagree. As I already stated, some items are BTO anyway so they will always have to be explained such as video RAM. Dell has an XPS model that's basically a laptop that unlatches into a desktop...can you tell me which one? If you just said Dell XPS, that is not the POS that I would picture in my mind—I didn't even know it existed until I looked at their site earlier.

Apple does not have a lacking naming scheme. Models that need a large amount of differentiation have different names (which is the only reason they would switch PowerBook to MBP). If you have a need to further differentiate you can tell the person the speed of the processor. That pegs it usually between two models—unlike any Dell model. Their only glaring exemption is between the Al and Ti PowerBook G4, and that's simply a matter of calling the earlier one Ti PowerBook G4. You can't call my old CPiD the plastic Latitude :)

You guys need to get a life. Who gives a crap? Not to mention this entire dialog is completely OT.

You mean we should be more like you and add an even more OT and useless comment? Please do not tell me how to spend my time off. Thanks.

I don't mean to be so rude but I'm seriously tired of people who can't just leave well enough alone. So what if we're talking about this now. Does it really bother you enough to waste your own time replying?

[bep207]

if someone has a dell here is what i hear

"what kind of computer do you use"
"oh i use a dell (insert model that i quit caring/listeing about)"
"oh thats too bad"

[zync]

if someone has a dell here is what i hear

"what kind of computer do you use"
"oh i use a dell (insert model that i quit caring/listeing about)"
"oh thats too bad"

Exactly! Most of them don't even know what model they have!

[focal]

I think this is a change. Could it mean anything?

BTW, I'm learning a lot here. Thanks to all.:)

[ictiosapiens]

Exactly! Most of them don't even know what model they have!

I think that's a bit unfair... There are different types of users, the ones here are obviously early adopters who really like to have or at least know about the latest and greatest... But if you ask a average Mac(or pc) user on the street what computer they have, they'll say "an apple one of those pretty white ones or one of those cool metal ones"..."so, does it have an intel processor or an IBM?" - "what's a processor?"

It's the same with the pc users, I have a dell, and a mac... And I know exactly what model number it is and what components are inside both my computers... Why, cause I'm a sad early adopter who spends way to much time reading forums and internet sites...

[ZoomZoomZoom]

For the record I have a Macbook ordered which will be sold on eBay within 2 weeks, it is just going to tide me until the next MBP Rev.

How much are you looking for, for the MB? I'm thinking of getting my brother a birthday present... :D

On a different note, I do not think that Apple has a lacking naming scheme in respect to its product line. Although it is the same thing that other PC manufacturers are doing, the slower product cycle and small product lines keep the naming scheme relatively simple.

Varying enclosures make the naming even easier. People who don't use macs can easily learn that the plastic laptops are Macbooks, aluminum laptops are MBPs, little headless desktops are Mac Minis, big headless desktops are Mac Pros, and the other thing is an iMac. Then, each one of those product lines has 3 current products, with a new revision about once a year.

[jholzner]

I think this is a change. Could it mean anything?

BTW, I'm learning a lot here. Thanks to all.:)

Not sure. The iMac is also now 1-2 days but the MPB is not. I think it may be increased orders to the edu market since they are both consumer machines. Here at U of I move in day was over the weekend. I'm betting it's just increased orders to Uni studens and the like. I can't see Apple sticking Merom in the MB before the MBP.

[zync]

I think that's a bit unfair... There are different types of users, the ones here are obviously early adopters who really like to have or at least know about the latest and greatest... But if you ask a average Mac(or pc) user on the street what computer they have, they'll say "an apple one of those pretty white ones or one of those cool metal ones"..."so, does it have an intel processor or an IBM?" - "what's a processor?"

It's the same with the pc users, I have a dell, and a mac... And I know exactly what model number it is and what components are inside both my computers... Why, cause I'm a sad early adopter who spends way to much time reading forums and internet sites...

I have no pity for those people. If you buy anything, you should know what it is.

On a different note, I do not think that Apple has a lacking naming scheme in respect to its product line. Although it is the same thing that other PC manufacturers are doing, the slower product cycle and small product lines keep the naming scheme relatively simple.

Varying enclosures make the naming even easier. People who don't use macs can easily learn that the plastic laptops are Macbooks, aluminum laptops are MBPs, little headless desktops are Mac Minis, big headless desktops are Mac Pros, and the other thing is an iMac. Then, each one of those product lines has 3 current products, with a new revision about once a year.

Exactly!

[DeVizardofOZ]

[QUOTE=generik]I doubt they are QC related, more like stupid design related.
TRUE

I hate the aluminium like the other guy as well, but what's this hogwash about a plastic plate? It has been more than confirmed by many that it is not a plastic plate.

You're wrong! Sorry...:mad:
We actually removed the top enclosure from a PB, and BINGO, it is PLASTIC, and painted, so the paint scratches off if you are not very careful.

Now, having said that, I do not think they did switched that part to aluminum in the MBP. I suspect that it is too expensive to have the perforation for the speakers made in an aluminum top plate...

And no, I do not compare to DELL, but to different manufacturers of laptops. Over the past 15 years IBM and Toshiba stands out with overall reliabilty and quality. Of course they are WINstupid computers.

Re: ASUS, they offer a top of the line video card with 512 MB... Why cant APPLE offer that? Valid question?

Other than that, my decision to wait stands.
CIAO:D

[zync]

You're wrong! Sorry...:mad:
We actually removed the top enclosure from a PB, and BINGO, it is PLASTIC, and painted, so the paint scratches off if you are not very careful.

Now, having said that, I do not think they did switched that part to aluminum in the MBP. I suspect that it is too expensive to have the perforation for the speakers made in an aluminum top plate...

And no, I do not compare to DELL, but to different manufacturers of laptops. Over the past 15 years IBM and Toshiba stands out with overall reliabilty and quality. Of course they are WINstupid computers.

Re: ASUS, they offer a top of the line video card with 512 MB... Why cant APPLE offer that? Valid question?

Other than that, my decision to wait stands.
CIAO:D

I agree it sounds like plastic if you tap on it. However, mine has never become scratched in three years of daily use and transcontinental travel.

Regarding the "quality" of Toshiba: my friend had a new Toshiba laptop, a desktop replacement model. His CD burner died after burning three CDs in a row. His 'l' key broke off and would never go back on—we both tried and we're both experienced techs. I don't even remember what else happened with that computer but he badly wanted to keep it because he loved the toggle mouse, but eventually so many things broke on it he had them replace it. They couldn't fix his model so they gave him a new one. Even more things broke on the new model that he—a highly dedicated Toshiba customer for years—decided to switch to HP. As far as I know he hasn't had a single problem with his new laptop, other than hating that stupid non-anti-glare screen.

[bbrosemer]

Re: ASUS, they offer a top of the line video card with 512 MB... Why cant APPLE offer that? Valid question?

Other than that, my decision to wait stands.
CIAO:D Apple likes having a portable computer unlike the 19 inch asus with 2 3.5'' HD...Sorry wrong company, however that would be one hot laptop...

[zync]

Apple likes having a portable computer unlike the 19 inch asus with 2 3.5'' HD...Sorry wrong company, however that would be one hot laptop...

I've been thinking that for a while. No one has mentioned it strangely enough. I was somewhat curious as to whether he would figure it out if no one told him :D

[DeVizardofOZ]

Hey ZYNC

[/QUOTE]Regarding the "quality" of Toshiba: my friend had a new Toshiba laptop, a desktop replacement model. His CD burner died after burning three CDs in a row. His 'l' key broke off and would never go back on—we both tried and we're both experienced techs. I don't even remember what else happened with that computer but he badly wanted to keep it because he loved the toggle mouse, but eventually so many things broke on it he had them replace it. They couldn't fix his model so they gave him a new one. Even more things broke on the new model that he—a highly dedicated Toshiba customer for years—decided to switch to HP. As far as I know he hasn't had a single problem with his new laptop, other than hating that stupid non-anti-glare screen.[/QUOTE]

It seems we have a general quality or QC problem or both... The old stuff was much more build to last. One thing I can say about chinese production quality:
In the beginning they produce good quality, and then they try to use cheaper stuff to make more profit. They all seem to do it.
Being german this attitude is kind of alien to me, as we have a history of top quality.

Dell has melting batteries, others have other problems, some serious, and I believe chinese production style is the key to all these problems, not just for computers... they have no concept of true quality.
Even the MAGLEV in China has problems because the chinese think they can use inferior material for this high tech train, thereby causing technical problems to the point where the train is set on fire...
then blaming it on the foreigners...

Thats finger pointing is standard here. Only themselves they do not allow anyone to critisize them.

:D

[generik]

There is no such thing as cheap and good.. there is no such thing as cheap and good.. there is no such thing as cheap and good.

What I hope is Apple or Dell or whoever, gets slap with a huge lawsuit after a laptop explodes on someone's lap. Seriously. That poor someone would be sterilised, but he/she would be a multi-millionaire overnight. Win-win!

[zync]

Hey ZYNC
It seems we have a general quality or QC problem or both... The old stuff was much more build to last. One thing I can say about chinese production quality:
In the beginning they produce good quality, and then they try to use cheaper stuff to make more profit. They all seem to do it.
Being german this attitude is kind of alien to me, as we have a history of top quality.

Dell has melting batteries, others have other problems, some serious, and I believe chinese production style is the key to all these problems, not just for computers... they have no concept of true quality.
Even the MAGLEV in China has problems because the chinese think they can use inferior material for this high tech train, thereby causing technical problems to the point where the train is set on fire...
then blaming it on the foreigners...

Thats finger pointing is standard here. Only themselves they do not allow anyone to critisize them.

:D

Good points! That's the reason why he liked Toshiba in the first place. It used to create good quality products. Thanks for your reply!

[kim0785b]

So after all this fighting, when are they gonna come out? I am betting around the 5th of september, however people saying photokina event in london? Its my birthday on the 21st, when oh when?!?!

[elsiedee]

One thing I can say about chinese production quality:
In the beginning they produce good quality, and then they try to use cheaper stuff to make more profit. They all seem to do it.

You have just described the last 5 Chinese buffet restaurants in my city :D

When they first opened, the food was of good quality and they were crowded. As the weeks went by, the quality dropped and so did the number of customers. Quality dropped further and, so far, 3 of them have closed their doors.

[DeVizardofOZ]

You have just described the last 5 Chinese buffet restaurants in my city :D

When they first opened, the food was of good quality and they were crowded. As the weeks went by, the quality dropped and so did the number of customers. Quality dropped further and, so far, 3 of them have closed their doors.

That's the way they operate. There are always exceptions of the 'rule':p though...

Just me:D

[PizzaDelivery]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what kind of price are people expecting for a 17" (top end) MacBook Pro with a Merom processor in it?

[Pressure]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but what kind of price are people expecting for a 17" (top end) MacBook Pro with a Merom processor in it?

The same as the current . . .

Unless there have been a redesign. Merom are replacing Yonah pricing.

[7on]

If MBs got a dedicated GPU & backlit keyboard, what would be the difference between that and an MBP other than a superdrive, Firewire 800 and an Express Card slot? IMO, that's not enough of a difference for me.

Well the cost would be = or greater than a MBP at that point and you'd get a MBP for the larger screen (a MB would be more expensive because of smaller formfactor)

[7on]

Hey ZYNC

Regarding the "quality" of Toshiba: my friend had a new Toshiba laptop, a desktop replacement model. His CD burner died after burning three CDs in a row. His 'l' key broke off and would never go back on—we both tried and we're both experienced techs. I don't even remember what else happened with that computer but he badly wanted to keep it because he loved the toggle mouse, but eventually so many things broke on it he had them replace it. They couldn't fix his model so they gave him a new one. Even more things broke on the new model that he—a highly dedicated Toshiba customer for years—decided to switch to HP. As far as I know he hasn't had a single problem with his new laptop, other than hating that stupid non-anti-glare screen.

It seems we have a general quality or QC problem or both... The old stuff was much more build to last. One thing I can say about chinese production quality:
In the beginning they produce good quality, and then they try to use cheaper stuff to make more profit. They all seem to do it.
Being german this attitude is kind of alien to me, as we have a history of top quality.

Dell has melting batteries, others have other problems, some serious, and I believe chinese production style is the key to all these problems, not just for computers... they have no concept of true quality.
Even the MAGLEV in China has problems because the chinese think they can use inferior material for this high tech train, thereby causing technical problems to the point where the train is set on fire...
then blaming it on the foreigners...

Thats finger pointing is standard here. Only themselves they do not allow anyone to critisize them.

:D


Is there a German computer company?

[generik]

Is there a German computer company?

IBM, in the World War II IBM solutions are used to keep databases on Jews, we all know how well that worked out :eek:

[lizard79]

Is there a German computer company?

I think AMD is producing in Germany..

[SuperSnake2012]

My Macbook that I ordered yesterday is shipping on September 5th... hehe :D

[DeVizardofOZ]

... Well, like APPLE and others, there are some german brands, which actually MAKE computers, but like most others hardware is made elsewhere (TW, Korea and Japan). Some of the laptops made in Germany have selected hardware, that is, only parts of the highest order are used.

Those are small manufacturers, but they usually have a much better AFTER SALES SERVICE and even WARRANTY, compared to the big names. You can actually call them directly, and won't get an indian call center, where people cannot understand you...

That is the crux.

It is "us", the consumers, who have to show the BIG BOYS where we see the quality standard. If car makers would manufacture automobiles which blow up, or where the engines give in after a few days, they would lose market share in no time...

Well, I guess there's alaways hope to see APPLE get back to a high level of quality when hardware is concerned.

[tutelary]

Lets play a game Apple:

Bring out a "mini" mac pro (core 2/merom/E6300 to 6600 range, upgradeable to 4gig, 4 pci-e slots, an e-sata port or two on the back, expansion bay for 1 extra hd inside, 1 optical drive)

and I'll switch after 16 years on Windows.

Not only will I buy this machine, I'll buy a 23inch lcd and a service contract.

Dont, and I'll buy parts for something like this machine, and be running Vista on it next year and you will have lost your chance. (Not only with me, but a lot of people like me)

It's that simple.

[Josias]

Lets play a game Apple:

Bring out a "mini" mac pro (core 2/merom/E6300 to 6600 range, upgradeable to 4gig, 4 pci-e slots, an e-sata port or two on the back, expansion bay for 1 extra hd inside, 1 optical drive)

and I'll switch after 16 years on Windows.

Not only will I buy this machine, I'll buy a 23inch lcd and a service contract.

Dont, and I'll buy parts for something like this machine, and be running Vista on it next year and you will have lost your chance. (Not only with me, but a lot of people like me)

It's that simple.

Allright. Seems like you'll be doing Vista for the rest of your life. Face it. Appel tried this. It was the called The PowerMac G4 Cube. The only good thing about it was the "no fans" thing. Otherwise, Cube was a POC, and they will never release a small tower again.;)

Just my 40% of a nickel.

BTW, DeVizardofOZ, Medion is German, and makes computers.

[tutelary]

Allright. Seems like you'll be doing Vista for the rest of your life. Face it. Appel tried this. It was the called The PowerMac G4 Cube. The only good thing about it was the "no fans" thing. Otherwise, Cube was a POC, and they will never release a small tower again.;)

Just my 40% of a nickel.

BTW, DeVizardofOZ, Medion is German, and makes computers.

The cube didnt run on intel. Virtualization wasn't a part of the game back then. Its time to try again.

[zync]

Lets play a game Apple:

Bring out a "mini" mac pro (core 2/merom/E6300 to 6600 range, upgradeable to 4gig, 4 pci-e slots, an e-sata port or two on the back, expansion bay for 1 extra hd inside, 1 optical drive)

and I'll switch after 16 years on Windows.

Not only will I buy this machine, I'll buy a 23inch lcd and a service contract.

Dont, and I'll buy parts for something like this machine, and be running Vista on it next year and you will have lost your chance. (Not only with me, but a lot of people like me)

It's that simple.

If you're up for building your own warranty-less computer, why not modify the mini anyway? Or, you can always get that docking HD they sell and most of your complaints will be solved. Hell you could even double them up and network them. I highly doubt that there are as many people wishing for the same thing as you are as you think.

If you want pro features you have to buy a pro model. It's that simple.

If you can't find the space to fit a Mac Pro I don't even see how you can afford it. And please don't give me the old I want a small computer routine. If you need a small computer, hide a Mac Pro somewhere and run some cables. Also don't try to say price is an issue since you want to buy the 23 incher.

I guess we'll see you some time in 2009 when Vista actually ships.

[ryanx27]

.
It is "us", the consumers, who have to show the BIG BOYS where we see the quality standard. If car makers would manufacture automobiles which blow up, or where the engines give in after a few days, they would lose market share in no time...


True, but unlike my car, if my computer goes all to hell while I'm using it, it won't kill me (I'll just die inside...) :)

[macman2790]

well tomorrow is september 5th lets keep our fingers crossed

[Warbrain]

well tomorrow is september 5th lets keep our fingers crossed

I doubt you'll see anything. Wait a week. The 12th is the new date.

[generik]

It seems we have a general quality or QC problem or both... The old stuff was much more build to last. One thing I can say about chinese production quality:
In the beginning they produce good quality, and then they try to use cheaper stuff to make more profit. They all seem to do it.
Being german this attitude is kind of alien to me, as we have a history of top quality.

:D

Maybe you should shove that Aryan attitude of yours, every post of yours seem to go "woohoo, we germans make the best things!" The Maglev fire is due to a battery produced by the Germans, and all the lame germans can say is "Oh.. Shanghai is more humid than Germany"

Quality my ass.

[generik]

Lets play a game Apple:

Bring out a "mini" mac pro (core 2/merom/E6300 to 6600 range, upgradeable to 4gig, 4 pci-e slots, an e-sata port or two on the back, expansion bay for 1 extra hd inside, 1 optical drive)

and I'll switch after 16 years on Windows.

Not only will I buy this machine, I'll buy a 23inch lcd and a service contract.

Dont, and I'll buy parts for something like this machine, and be running Vista on it next year and you will have lost your chance. (Not only with me, but a lot of people like me)

It's that simple.

Go ahead and switch to Vista then, it is not like you won't constantly be looking back at that decision and regretting it.

I stopped reading the moment I read "4 PCIe slots", do you happen to know how expensive those things are currently? A PC mainboard's retail price can go up by almost $100 just for the addition of that 2nd PCIe slot.

[macenforcer]

It seems we have a general quality or QC problem or both... The old stuff was much more build to last. One thing I can say about chinese production quality:
In the beginning they produce good quality, and then they try to use cheaper stuff to make more profit. They all seem to do it.
Being german this attitude is kind of alien to me, as we have a history of top quality.



:D

I bought a brand new BMW 330ci when they first came out. Thing was a piece of sh|tt. Engine burned oil, AC stunk like a dirty sock, door panels kept falling off, throttle had lag, seats broke, stereo broke and the radiator leaked. All this in the first 6 months of ownership. Now our honda never had a single problem. Sorry but if that is german quality, it sucks.

[J@ffa]

So... MBP's today? Likely? My dad said today he's definitely getting one if they do...

[bluetorch18]

So... MBP's today? Likely? My dad said today he's definitely getting one if they do...

I hope so, I've been waiting since June for one...and I would really like one with an updated GPU as well...

[Chone]

Go ahead and switch to Vista then, it is not like you won't constantly be looking back at that decision and regretting it.

I stopped reading the moment I read "4 PCIe slots", do you happen to know how expensive those things are currently? A PC mainboard's retail price can go up by almost $100 just for the addition of that 2nd PCIe slot.

I thought his statements were dumb... he basically wants a Mac Pro in a Mac Mini... why not just buy a Mac Pro? Seriously, all the mini needs is continous CPU speed bumps, perhaps a nice low end but dedicated card and maybe a faster HDD but its fine as it is, maybe Apple just needs to make a base 499 model and have the high end model have the improvements I said?

[poppe]

I bought a brand new BMW 330ci when they first came out. Thing was a piece of sh|tt. Engine burned oil, AC stunk like a dirty sock, door panels kept falling off, throttle had lag, seats broke, stereo broke and the radiator leaked. All this in the first 6 months of ownership. Now our honda never had a single problem. Sorry but if that is german quality, it sucks.

I dont know your beef with the other guy becasue I haven't been following, but BMW seems to be slipping in build quality. I've heard some bad stores about the 3 series ones, and the Mini Coopers are supposed to be absolutely horrible...

[generik]

I thought his statements were dumb... he basically wants a Mac Pro in a Mac Mini... why not just buy a Mac Pro? Seriously, all the mini needs is continous CPU speed bumps, perhaps a nice low end but dedicated card and maybe a faster HDD but its fine as it is, maybe Apple just needs to make a base 499 model and have the high end model have the improvements I said?

The Mac Mini is very nice as it is, I am not even bothered too much by the integrated graphics on a thing so small. But I have to admit that it is somewhat unreasonable for Apple to force people to get a Macpro if they do not want...

1) A AIO iMac
2) A machine with integrated graphics.

[MovieCutter]

Lets play a game Apple:

Bring out a "mini" mac pro (core 2/merom/E6300 to 6600 range, upgradeable to 4gig, 4 pci-e slots, an e-sata port or two on the back, expansion bay for 1 extra hd inside, 1 optical drive)

and I'll switch after 16 years on Windows.

Not only will I buy this machine, I'll buy a 23inch lcd and a service contract.

Dont, and I'll buy parts for something like this machine, and be running Vista on it next year and you will have lost your chance. (Not only with me, but a lot of people like me)

It's that simple.


Yeah, you make up less than 1 percent of Apple's target market, so they don't care. Thanks for playing.

[MrCrowbar]

The Mac Mini is very nice as it is, I am not even bothered too much by the integrated graphics on a thing so small. But I have to admit that it is somewhat unreasonable for Apple to force people to get a Macpro if they do not want...

1) A AIO iMac
2) A machine with integrated graphics.

Sometimes you have to force people to their luck. The price of iMacs is pretty good at the time new models are out. If you don't like the looks, you can still put it under the desk and use another screen...

[chatin]

Merom soon makes sense--in the Pro models and maybe iMac.

But Apple should certainly keep Yonah machines (Mini and MB) as well.

Yonah (even single-core Yonah) is already overkill power for some low-end users. So why make them pay for a pair of Merom cores?

Instead, let Yonah's price drop, and the bottom-end Mac models' price drop with it.

Umm, Right. The Yonah is not 32-bit by choice. Intel's engineers couldn't make EMT64 work without burning up the chip. So EMT64 is there, just not switched on.

So Intel is trying to get these out of production as fast as possible. Probably the same price to produce as Core 2, but much less efficient.

:rolleyes: :)

[fsryan]

All I know is I think that today would be a great day to release after a holiday. Also not to mention if they released the new mac book pros. They would be releasing over a week before everyone else. If apple truely does have priority with intel this would show it. I think apple would be stupid not to release them today considering its only a update not a new product line. Save the big announcement for thursday. Don't throw too much at us at once.

[macman2790]

does anyone think theres a chance of apple announcing macbooks and macbook pros with merom tomorrow?

[shecky]

yes

[macman2790]

i hope so because i've been waiting since june.

[poppe]

I see a few peoples guess is tomorrow. I was just wondering why they think that? If they just have a feeling or if they have heard some rumors? or what?

[macman2790]

look at the name of the thread. tomorrow is september 5th

[poppe]

look at the name of the thread. tomorrow is september 5th

Is that because today is September 4th?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was asking where they pulled the Date september 5th from?
Anywhere: hey rumor has it Apple is releasing september 5th? For no reason why though?

[twoodcc]

Is that because today is September 4th?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was asking where they pulled the Date september 5th from?
Anywhere: hey rumor has it Apple is releasing september 5th? For no reason why though?

maybe cuz it's Tuesday?

[macman2790]

no idea but i really hope they come out tomorrow, the wait is killing me.

[brepublican]

Wow, this would be a coup from Apple. I guess they must have to cos PC manufacturers came out with said laptops a fortnight ago...

[twoodcc]

no idea but i really hope they come out tomorrow, the wait is killing me.

me 2......at least update something.......man

[fsryan]

Well the reason there is big speculation for today is because there are reports of a mass high security top secret freight shipment to the us from china. Alot of people think they will be either releasing upgraded mac book pros or new mac mini. But something is in the works for today or later this week. You know how apple is so its probally most likely today if today is when its being shipped. You know they don't want anyone getting nosey and peaking before hand so they usually ship models same day. Best of home for a new mac book pro. I really want one. I really thing the mac mini and mac book pros will be released since they are just upgrades. I think the other products will be saved for september 12th

[macman2790]

if this is true will apple retail stores have them in stock tomorrow?

[twoodcc]

if this is true will apple retail stores have them in stock tomorrow?


highly doubtful

[fsryan]

No apple retail stored don't usually have them until a couple of days later. But I am sure they will be availible online tommorrow. I am sure we will know the second we goto the apple store and see a page that says please wait while we update the store that what usually happens anyways. I hope so my credit card is ready. I want it shipped priority.

[macman2790]

i guess i'll be going to the bank tomorrow to transfer some money into my checking account.

[generik]

If nothing comes out tomorrow, it will be... in the words of Ellen Feiss.. a bummer..

[DeVizardofOZ]

Macenforcer... What year was this? I agree this stinks. However, BMW is one of the most successful german carmaker in recent years. I have only owned Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Cadillac, Porsche and Ferrari, never bought a Beemer. The 2 Lexus I owned were the best cars I ever had. Happy? And by the way, I think your Beemer was made in the USofA.

That does not mean german quality sucks in general.

And to you GENERIC, sorry for not commenting!