Quality of forums changing

[lexus]

I am not saying this is bad but when i first joined this forum every one was helpful and friendly but this has changed. I am not saying people are not friendly its just that there is alot of spam and alot of people are using the forum to spam and sell stuff. I have a genuine networking problem (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=224275) and never got a good answer. Also there is too much focus on the community side than the mac side, I understand that the community aspect but there are some newbies who just post in the community forum and have no interest in Mac's. This place is a group effort and everyones assistance is needed. Members must report spam and irrelevant threads asap to keep this place the way it is.

If anyone objects please delete this.

Thanks

[spicyapple]

I have a genuine networking problem (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=224275) and never got a good answer.I use a network which is PC only, it uses scripts etc and I use it on a windows partition on my MacBook.I wonder why. :)

[lexus]

I wonder why. :)
Well I am trying to be able to use a mac.

[mkrishnan]

Ummm, I don't think you're being particularly fair to the community. The extent to which technical requests get answered depends to some extent on whether or not there actually *is* a solution available within our knowledgebase.

An example would be (up until Apple just released Bootcamp 1.1) threads saying, "I want to use my iSight in Windows." The only way the Apple community could have resolved that issue would have been for someone to reverse engineer the iSight and write a driver. That's not realistic.

Another example would be, "I want to do two-way AV chatting in MSN on a Mac." Until the software exists, it's just not feasible.

As for spam, there's been spam on MR ever since I joined at the beginning of 2004. It's just a fact of life, but it is aggressively moderated.

As for the community aspect of MR...*le shrug* That's a big part of why I bought a Mac, to be honest. Cuz I like the community.

You're a valuable part of the community, Lexus...as long as you chose to be. But if you like it that little and it's of that little help to you, you're of course always free to leave. We'll miss you, but....that's your choice.

P.S. I replied in your other thread as well.

[Blue Velvet]

I think you're way off the mark. If anything, the forums are just busier, that's all. And the Community forum is great... without community, we may as well be the Apple support forums.

And so your thread never got answered...

I started one well over a month ago asking about upgrading a Quicksilver which was never answered either but it's not something I'm going to whinge about. Or bump, either.

[someguy]

Um. This place is the same, if you ask me. Perhaps your annoyance with not receiving a "good" answer in your other thread is taking over other feelings you have about MR. Or perhaps you are getting sick of the forum itself.

I started one well over a month ago asking about upgrading a Quicksilver which was never answered either but it's not something I'm going to whinge about. Or bump, either.
Come to think of it, I have a thread asking how to get music on an LG Chocolate without the need to buy their overpriced software and never got a good answer either.

Seeing as how it's all about me, I hereby declare the quality of these forums to be pure garbage. :eek:

[spicyapple]

If it's any consolation, nobody replied to this thread I started.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=223039

Maybe no one likes me? :( I don't smell, do I?

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

If it's any consolation, nobody replied to this thread I started.
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=223039

Maybe no one likes me? :( I don't smell, do I?

You do a little...:p

[Lau]

I also agree with the above posts, and also will add that I intensely hate bumping of the

"Anyone out there?"
"Well, obviously no-one cares then"
"Right, you can all go jump, then"

type. I also hate people bumping every hour or two. As you managed to do both in your thread, if I had knowledge of your brief and rather vaguely described problem, I would be far less inclined to try and help with bumping like that.

As far as I'm concerned, bumping is perhaps appropriate after a day or two, when you have maybe done some research into the problem yourself, and is polite, e.g.

"I've managed to determine that the network I'm trying to connect to had "X" security, and this Google article says that this should work. It doesn't, and I wondered if any of you had any more ideas? Thanks."

[Mudbug]

I think you have to look at threads on a case-by-case basis. Maybe you didn't get good replies because nobody here knows how to address your question.

It seems that people were asking relatively good questions to find out more information about your networking question, but your inability to answer them stopped the progression of the thread. Also, your repeated bumps in the thread in turn probably irked more users away than brought them to you.

One thing you should ask yourself as you wait for responses: are you asking the question just for attention, or do you really want a correct answer? If it's the attention, then you won't care who or what replies to your thread, just that they replied. If you genuinely care, then you'll want the correct response, and will be willing to answer a few questions asked of you to render that correct information.

I'd say using a computer isn't rocket science, but sometimes, to do things like you're trying to do, it's not far off. Sorry you didn't get the answers you were looking for, but possibly it's because someone wanted to do a little fact checking before telling you to do something that wouldn't work.

[bousozoku]

I see a lot of people posting threads asking for help but they don't define the problem well and don't define want they want as a solution well, either.

I don't see that anything has changed with the way people respond or the quality of the answers. The majority of people on MacRumors are takers, not givers. This resembles real life, doesn't it?

Perhaps, guidelines should be set and made into a sticky thread so that everyone knows what will help them get a quick resolution. We've gone through this in other threads in the past. Of course, getting people to actually read is a problem.

[Doctor Q]

I think we have done what bousozoku suggests. We have a sticky thread in the Mac Basics and Help forum named How to maximise your MacRumors troubleshooting experience. I hope people looking for help notice it and read it.

We haven't put it in every forum, but perhaps we should add a "How to Get Help" section (with a link to that thread) to the FAQ.

[ham_man]

Have the forums really changed that much in 5 months...? :confused:

[bousozoku]

I think we have done what bousozoku suggests. We have a sticky thread in the Mac Basics and Help forum named How to maximise your MacRumors troubleshooting experience. I hope people looking for help notice it and read it.

We haven't put it in every forum, but perhaps we should add a "How to Get Help" section (with a link to that thread) to the FAQ.

Perhaps, a context-sensitive "Post new thread" button that attempts to figure out what people are trying to do before they do it and suggests a list of help and 6 months of training before allowing an actual thread to be added. :)

[mkrishnan]

Perhaps, a context-sensitive "Post new thread" button that attempts to figure out what people are trying to do before they do it and suggests a list of help and 6 months of training before allowing an actual thread to be added. :)

Do you remember how, in the day, rn would give you a big speech before it would let you post a new thread on usenet? :D

[hayduke]

You do a little...:p

If you can smell someone over the internet then, I'm afraid, they smell a LOT!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

:D

[iMeowbot]

Do you remember how, in the day, rn would give you a big speech before it would let you post a new thread on usenet? :D
NewsWatcher still hands out the same lecture (but sadly, leaves out the "hundreds if not thousands of dollars" bit).

[bousozoku]

Do you remember how, in the day, rn would give you a big speech before it would let you post a new thread on usenet? :D

No, I don't but I certainly can understand why.

[srf4real]

I'm a recent convert to MR. I like it. I used to have one friend who knew more about macs than I do (which is very little) Now I am part of THE mac community. I admit, that I'm so uneducated I probably don't even know how to ask the right question - yet it still gets answered. I love you guys!

[mkrishnan]

No, I don't but I certainly can understand why.

Well, once the alt. tree of the USENet had been created, it was sort of a moot point to argue about whether one's post was worth the cost, since certainly no one else's was. :D

[pianoman]

i visited frequently before joining and i can see some merit in the OP's complaint/comment. i thought the forums would be a little friendlier but i suppose i'm just as bad as everyone else - answering only what i know and ignoring or posting some offhand comment on others i have no idea about.

either way, i think that's part of the community. you can't expect everyone here to know everything and have a reply a minute after you post. not everyone here knows everything, but they sure do know a lot and with the combined brainpower of all the members, i confidently made the switch a couple years ago and recently joined so i could learn more.

the key is not to expect everyone here to be your best friend and answer all your technological questions. they do the best they can.

that said, it wouldn't kill some of the members to be a little nicer when posting a reply.

[somewhatstunned]

There's always a good reason for censorship but it's never a good idea. I don't like spam either but it's usually pretty obvious and I don't see a lot of it here. It's probably not a good billboard. Why waste your time? Even if it is .0001 of a dime.

When boards start up there's a small community of people who generate warmth and affection. As the community grows that small orignal community is overwhelmed and the originals may fall into bitterness. Be not bitter. It makes you hard and cold.

[kretzy]

I don't think there's been any change in the quality. I agree with BV, that the forums are busier but that's all. Just because you didn't get a answer to your thread means very little because there are so many reasons as to why no one may have had an answer.

Spam is same as ever, I haven't noticed any real increase. As for the community aspect, it's the main reason I come here so much. Sure I'm interested in what's going on in the Mac world, but I have a limit as to the amount of tech stuff I can read before getting bored. If there's something I can help with then I do but otherwise it's the community stuff that keeps things interesting.

[bousozoku]

There's always a good reason for censorship but it's never a good idea. I don't like spam either but it's usually pretty obvious and I don't see a lot of it here. It's probably not a good billboard. Why waste your time? Even if it is .0001 of a dime.

When boards start up there's a small community of people who generate warmth and affection. As the community grows that small orignal community is overwhelmed and the originals may fall into bitterness. Be not bitter. It makes you hard and cold.

This would be a very ugly place, if all the spam that people post was allowed to remain. You don't see a lot of it here because the moderators are very good and very quick and rubbish posts are usually reported quickly.

Of course, not everyone gets their answers. In the 4 years I've been here, my requests for help with problems have mostly ended without any reply, flip or useful. It doesn't matter, I usually figure it out.

A lot of people could answer their own questions, if they just opened the Preferences or the help text and made some sort of effort. I suppose that sounds bitter but it's real life. You can't always depend on someone else being there to figure it out for you.

[jsw]

The mods are quick because of the members who submit bad post reports (by clicking on the little '!' triangle next to each post), so I very much thank those members who do such a good job of telling us which posts are bad and why. :)

Also, many questions aren't answered because someone who knew the answer didn't see the post. Many of the more experienced members tend to search the new posts (http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?do=getnew) and so miss posts made earlier. I don't think many people see posts, know the answer, and refuse to post a reply.

And those who answer with a non-answer bother me, particularly those who go out of their way to be un-helpful.

[srf4real]

A lot of people could answer their own questions, if they just opened the Preferences or the help text and made some sort of effort.

That's true. It's why I love my mac! I didn't know squat about computers until i got a bondi imac in '99. Opened up every folder, studied the OS, figured out how to do most anything I wanted to.

Windows had me searching for the right folder/file for hours and still, common sense could not prevail!

[exabytes18]

Members must report spam and irrelevant threads asap to keep this place the way it is.

To be honest, I'm guilty of many of the things you mentioned, but I can attest to the fact that members are quick to report bogus threads. (i.e. My "Macs are Bogus" thread.) I just wanted to stir up some trouble. My apologies if this annoyed anyone.

[balamw]

Well, once the alt. tree of the USENet had been created, it was sort of a moot point to argue about whether one's post was worth the cost, since certainly no one else's was. :D
Especially since 99.999% of traffic in the alt groups was pr0n or warez. ;)

I still find MR overall the best forum I've found on the 'net, but it has really gotten quite busy, I believe since the Intel Macs have brought many new users to the platform...

B

[redAPPLE]

i believe everybody will agree that since apple started introducing intel machines (about 220 days ago) more and more peecee users (mostly n00bs)come and bash the mac and defend window$, even-though they are in a mac-centric forum.

i can imagine it would be a daunting task to remind posters that this is mainly (or mostly) a mac site and if they can't stand the mac platform, then it would be greatly appreciated, if they would silently go to a peecee forum.

re: quality. unfortunately, i would say it has declined a bit. i am no elitist. just a normal joe giving his opinion.

[MacNut]

Maybe a MacRumors "help desk" is needed, someone that knows all about macs sits in a corner of the site and just gives out support.

[bousozoku]

Maybe a MacRumors "help desk" is needed, someone that knows all about macs sits in a corner of the site and just gives out support.

If that's the case, there is a lot of money to be made. ;)

[jamesW135]

I agree, I had to remove my AIM Screenname from my profile because random people (Not from the forum) were contacting me. The people from the forum that I talk with are a different story. I only Had my SN on this forum so this had to be the cause.:o

[Doctor Q]

I agree, I had to remove my AIM Screenname from my profile because random people (Not from the forum) were contacting me. The people from the forum that I talk with are a different story. I only Had my SN on this forum so this had to be the cause.:oPerhaps instead of leaving out your AIM name from your profile, or setting it to "None", you should set it to "PM me for name" so members will think to ask you for it if they'd like to IM you.

[someguy]

I agree, I had to remove my AIM Screenname from my profile because random people (Not from the forum) were contacting me. The people from the forum that I talk with are a different story. I only Had my SN on this forum so this had to be the cause.:o
What does this have to do with forum quality?

[bousozoku]

Perhaps instead of leaving out your AIM name from your profile, or setting it to "None", you should set it to "PM me for name" so members will think to ask you for it if they'd like to IM you.

It shouldn't be visible from the outside. I know how he feels because I would not likely have gone through quite a bit of hell if mine hadn't been visible last year. (Of course, it was my decision to put it there but I thought it was secure from outside eyes.)

[wmmk]

lexus, we've both been at MR for about the same amount of time. i don't think that the quality of discussion has actually changed, but you may just be getting used to the amazing qulity of dialogue at MR. at first, you're overwhelmed by people's helpfulness, but just started to take it for granted. Sorry if I'm making no sense cause I'm tired.

[piltupso]

Well I must be one of those horrible noobs that is dragging the quality of the site down.

Seriously though being new to the forums in general as well as new to Macs I have found this site to be very helpful. I began looking around the forums when I began shopping for a new machine a couple months ago and after hitting a couple of different ones this has been the best. I have got a lot of help mostly from just reading posts. Being new to MacRumors and to message boards (if they are still called that) in general I have learned two things quickly.

1. the subtle tone of your post goes a long way in getting what you want.

2. Ask a stupid question get an equivalent answer.

[Applespider]

piltupso - two excellent points that everyone should bear in mind

Although not all noobs are bad... the upstanding Demis and 601s of the future have to come from somewhere ;)

[2nyRiggz]

^Indeed. This forum gets better as time go by..friendly, helpful, crazy, funny people...only reason I keep coming back for more.

Spicyapple.....it depends.....we all smell.....good or bad is another thing;)

[Zwhaler]

I don't see that much advertising, just the occasional post that usually ends up in the wasteland in a matter of a minute.

[LethalWolfe]

I am not saying this is bad but when i first joined this forum every one was helpful and friendly but this has changed. I am not saying people are not friendly its just that there is alot of spam and alot of people are using the forum to spam and sell stuff. I have a genuine networking problem (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=224275) and never got a good answer. Also there is too much focus on the community side than the mac side, I understand that the community aspect but there are some newbies who just post in the community forum and have no interest in Mac's. This place is a group effort and everyones assistance is needed. Members must report spam and irrelevant threads asap to keep this place the way it is.

If anyone objects please delete this.

Thanks

Questions like the one you used as an example probably should be asked at Apple's official support forums or in a forum that specifically deals w/networks. It doesn't sound like a Q that the typical MR member (a Mac enthusiast, not necessary a techno-geek) could answer.

It's like in the video forum (where I usually hang out) most of the consumer oriented and basic Q's get answered pretty quickly, but if someone asks a more advanced Q like, "I'm having problems using Automatic Duck to xfer an FCP project into Avid" the help probably won't come 'cause the problem is beyond the scope of this board and should be directed at a post proudction/editing forum (if not Avid's, Automatic Ducks, or FCP's official help forums).

I think people generally are polite when they seek help, but it's irritating when people (and I don't necessarily mean you) cop an attitude and demand "service" like MR is some sort of freakin' help desk.


Lethal

[mad jew]

The switch to Intel has thrown a bit of a spanner in the works simply because it has added such a large new dimension to Mac computing. On one hand it requires new information and knowledge for the troubleshooters and on the other hand it has meant an insurgence of new members to the Mac community and in particular, this site. More members + a larger scope for questions may stretch the site's resources a little further but considering advice here is free, I'm not bothered by it. :)

[Fiveos22]

Have the forums really changed that much in 5 months...? :confused:

I don't think so. I think it is more that the perception of the forums is changing within the users (on a user to user basis). I started out coming to this site three years ago when I was looking into getting a Power Mac G5. I used the news here to plot my buying strategy (and consequently bought a PM hours after WWDC '03). Since then, I kept up with front page news and MacBytes news postings and commented on articles as I saw necessary. With the arrival of DailyTunes I started airing my musical tastes to the forum and enjoyed talking about genres and songs that I am unfamiliar with. In the past year I have taken an interest in the other "community" aspects of this forum including the Marketplace and the other fun/entertainment oriented threads.

To me, MR is still a great place to find first-hand software reviews and people willing to test updates before I decide to download and install them...coincidentally it is also a place to burn time having fun reading other peoples' perspectives.

MR Forums has not become just an inside joke site where only the Old Skoolers hold the social fabric together nor has it become a way-stop for a transient population. I can come here and see familiar screen-names and new users reinforcing the idea that this is a Macintosh Community site. Personally, I'd love to see some stats on number of new users/day alongside number of old screennames not logging in (length of time between logins) alongside general activity of old posters vs. new posters. As with any forum site, there is a learning and maturing period, during which a poster learns the de facto rules of the land while building up post count.