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View Full Version : Theory on X1900 XT shipping delays...




ammon
Aug 20, 2006, 09:12 AM
I was wondering why it will take Apple another two weeks to get their hands on a few cards that have been out for around 8 months. Granted they have to have a different ROM and a different BIOS, but still... I just don't want to wait another 4 weeks!

The other day I happened to read up on ATI's latest graphic chip - the X1950 XTX. It is set to launch on the 23rd of this month and be out in quantities by the 14th of September.

Hmmmm.... That got me thinking. What are the chances that Apple would stick in an even better card then what I have ordered? What if they said it was an X1900 XT because the X1950 XTX wasn't out yet, but it is indeed the faster chip?

Have a read at The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33740) to get all the details.



Origin
Aug 20, 2006, 09:27 AM
The only thing we can say is that Apple already did that similar "free upgrade" with the MacBook Pro and the CPU frequencies in March, a sort of "excuse" for the laaaaaarge shipping delay of the laptops.

Beside this, to understand that they'll do this for all the long shipping delay of their products is a bit optimistic, I think.

yankeefan24
Aug 20, 2006, 09:29 AM
It makes sense and they might, but don't get your hopes too far up.

damado
Aug 20, 2006, 10:14 AM
That would be a very pleasant surprise =)

It could also be that ATI decided to run the ROM chip production cycle in line with those new cards which I guess would be good too since it could mean the xtx has apple compatible roms.

Since the 1900xt has been out for a while, the delay can only be two reasons right? ROM production or upgraded card? If it was just the ROM it would seem wierd that ATI hadn't started mass producing the roms before the mac pro release, unless it was like a last minute decision to include it.

I dunno, thinking as I type =P

Mr. Mister
Aug 20, 2006, 11:11 AM
That would kick ass, but if so they could've been more up-front about it.

macgeek2005
Aug 20, 2006, 11:19 AM
Wow, I didn't realise the X1950XTX was shipping so soon!

Guys this is it! For sure! No doubt about it!

At that next event of apple or whatever, the paris keynote, they "update" the Mac Pro's GPU, and announce that all Mac Pro configurations are shipping within a few days!

Those that ordered X1900XT's will get the new GPU since their computers did not ship yet!

I don't see how this can not be the case. This is certain! YES!!!

BlizzardBomb
Aug 20, 2006, 11:29 AM
Wow, I didn't realise the X1950XTX was shipping so soon!

Guys this is it! For sure! No doubt about it!

At that next event of apple or whatever, the paris keynote, they "update" the Mac Pro's GPU, and announce that all Mac Pro configurations are shipping within a few days!

Those that ordered X1900XT's will get the new GPU since their computers did not ship yet!

I don't see how this can not be the case. This is certain! YES!!!

I hope you're being sarcastic? This is very unlikely.

miniConvert
Aug 20, 2006, 11:40 AM
I hope you're being sarcastic? This is very unlikely.
That's it! For sure! No doubt about it!

apple1984
Aug 20, 2006, 12:12 PM
It would be very nice if they bumped the GPU in the Mac Pro up to the X1950XTX, but very unlikely. More probable is that they are having problems in the mass production of the compatible graphics cards.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 20, 2006, 12:39 PM
That's it! For sure! No doubt about it!
:p Hey, I think an X1950 XTX in a Mac Pro would be brilliant, just don't see it happening yet.

ammon
Aug 20, 2006, 02:22 PM
:p Hey, I think an X1950 XTX in a Mac Pro would be brilliant, just don't see it happening yet.

Yeah. Chances are slim to none, but who knows... Stranger things have happened in the past... Heck, Apple is now using Intel CPUs! They also started shipping the first Intel Macs almost 6 months prior to when they said they would. Now they have completed their transition to Intel almost a year ahead of schedule! Strange indeed...

Will it happen? I doubt it. Could it? Sure! Why not?

MacsAttack
Aug 20, 2006, 02:34 PM
I think the X1950 XTX is getting a new (quieter) fan/heatsink setup. Perhaps the Apple version of the old card is getting the same rig - hence the delay.

Or perhaps it is just a problem with demand for Mac Pro CTO has just messed up the schedule.

Anybody know how much noise the FX4500 makes?

Krevnik
Aug 20, 2006, 04:33 PM
Odds are that the delays are simply because of manufacturing of the Mac version. UGA cards (BIOS /and/ EFI compatible) are still relatively new, and I would argue that ATi isn't going to push out a UGA card until a customer requests it (in this case, Apple). The manufacturing of updated x1900s with a larger ROM chip, and updated firmware will take time, and I think in Apple's case, they didn't want to push out the Mac Pro launch just because ATi and nVidia weren't ready with their high-end cards by WWDC.

Mr. Mister
Aug 21, 2006, 10:56 AM
Nice theory, but I doubt it quite a bit and frankly just want my Mac Pro as soon as possible with the XP SATA issue fixed more than having another set of delays...

damado
Aug 21, 2006, 12:35 PM
The only reason I like the XP sata problem is that it makes me more patient waiting on mine =P

I hope that's solved by apple by the time mine gets here!

My fear is they don't fix it until revision B with some new intel motherboard that has all sorts of other goodies on it =/

CyberPrey
Aug 21, 2006, 12:58 PM
The only reason I like the XP sata problem is that it makes me more patient waiting on mine =P

I hope that's solved by apple by the time mine gets here!

My fear is they don't fix it until revision B with some new intel motherboard that has all sorts of other goodies on it =/

That would be bad... I have a feeling there are several gamers out there that would flock to the apple stores in droves and go with a good old fashioned lynching :)

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 01:20 PM
How bad is the XP sata problem exactly? Does it make windows unusable?

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 01:51 PM
Holy crap!!! They are most definetaly shipping the Mac Pro's with the X1950XTX. There is no room for doubt anymore. Read this:

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33215

The X1950XTX will support HDCP!!! Do you think apple would actually piss off all their initiall customers, and have their first line of Mac Pro's not support HDCP? Seriously!

This has to be what it is! HDCP everyone! HDCP!!!!! Apple is all about High Definition!!!

UnixMac
Aug 21, 2006, 01:57 PM
I sure hope so... I'm sick of waiting.. I'm at the point where I'm trying to convince myself to get the Quadro4500FX.. (I've even got a thread started here and at another forum to see if I can be convinced)..

I don't mind paying the $1000 if the Quadro is a much better card; but from what I am reading the X1900 is on par and better in home apps.. which means the X1950 is going to be even better..

but I for one remain hopeful that Apple is shipping the X1950 in mid Sept!

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 02:01 PM
I sure hope so... I'm sick of waiting.. I'm at the point where I'm trying to convince myself to get the Quadro4500FX.. (I've even got a thread started here and at another forum to see if I can be convinced)..

I don't mind paying the $1000 if the Quadro is a much better card; but from what I am reading the X1900 is on par and better in home apps.. which means the X1950 is going to be even better..

but I for one remain hopeful that Apple is shipping the X1950 in mid Sept!

It just makes too much sense. Most people have a ship date of September 18th or around that time, and the X1950 will be available in large quantites on September 15th!

Why would apple use yesterdays technology?

UnixMac
Aug 21, 2006, 02:03 PM
Why would apple use yesterdays technology?

it wouldn't be the first time they've dont that, so this isnt' a reason to hope.. it's more to do with that date.. Like others said, the 1900 has been out for a while; why would there be a shortage of a GPU that's been produced for the last 6-8 months??

This could make waiting REALLY worth it! :D

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 02:37 PM
But it also wouldn't be the first time that they surprise bump something right before shipping it (MacBook Pro's).

At this point i'm 100% certain that's what is happening. It just doesn't make sense any other way.

UnixMac
Aug 21, 2006, 02:54 PM
But it also wouldn't be the first time that they surprise bump something right before shipping it (MacBook Pro's).

At this point i'm 100% certain that's what is happening. It just doesn't make sense any other way.

we're spec'ed out about the same you and I, so we'll need to keep an eye on this.. I've got a Sept 19th ship date for sept 21st delivery..

kered22
Aug 21, 2006, 03:09 PM
2.66Ghz, 2 GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, single superdrive and X1900 here too. I ordered Friday night and I have a September 19th ship date, 21st arrival date.

Be nice if we got a free video card upgrade, the logic of the wait doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. The X1900s been out since January '06 I believe, all the materials are there (chip, card, VRAM etc) so it seems all they'd have to do is flash the ROMs, maybe under or overclock and that'd be it.

jordansampson
Aug 21, 2006, 03:17 PM
if that was true i think apple woudl tell us. They would hide the fact that they are giving their customers free upgrades. I mean it would make me really happy becasue mines not set to ship till end of septemeber becasue of that X1900 but i doubt that is the reason. I would think the fact that its their new computer and everyone is trying to get one is more close to the real reason.

BlizzardBomb
Aug 21, 2006, 03:22 PM
But it also wouldn't be the first time that they surprise bump something right before shipping it (MacBook Pro's).

At this point i'm 100% certain that's what is happening. It just doesn't make sense any other way.

100%? Please stop getting your hopes up like that! You will almost certainly be disappointed...

UnixMac
Aug 21, 2006, 03:28 PM
if that was true i think apple woudl tell us. They would hide the fact that they are giving their customers free upgrades. I mean it would make me really happy becasue mines not set to ship till end of septemeber becasue of that X1900 but i doubt that is the reason. I would think the fact that its their new computer and everyone is trying to get one is more close to the real reason.

Did they tell the MacBook Pro buyers?? I'm not familiar with that case, anyone?
:confused:

jordansampson
Aug 21, 2006, 03:29 PM
Someone Could Just Call Apple And Ask If They Had Plans To Upgrade The X1900? Then If They Do Ask If Thats Why The Delay Is So Long. If They Say No, Tell Them You Would Like To Cancle Your Order And Wait. They Will Let You In On Their Little "secret" If Its Realy The Case.

Like I Said, It Makes No Sence. People Have Planed Shipping Dates Of Sep 8th And 9th. And 4 Days Dosent Realy Give Them Much Time To Config All The Upgraded Computers Before They Start Mass Shipping Them. I Realy Wouldnt Be 100% At This Point.. More Like 2%

UnixMac
Aug 21, 2006, 03:32 PM
Someone Could Just Call Apple And Ask If They Had Plans To Upgrade The X1900? Then If They Do Ask If Thats Why The Delay Is So Long. If They Say No, Tell Them You Would Like To Cancle Your Order And Wait. They Will Let You In On Their Little "secret" If Its Realy The Case.

Like I Said, It Makes No Sence. People Have Planed Shipping Dates Of Sep 8th And 9th. And 4 Days Dosent Realy Give Them Much Time To Config All The Upgraded Computers Before They Start Mass Shipping Them. I Realy Wouldnt Be 100% At This Point.. More Like 2%

There was a time, not too long ago when you called Apple and got someone who KNEW what he was talking about... these days quite honestly, I get more "good" true info off this forum and the other Mac forums, than any Apple tech/sales guy! :p

I miss especially the Apple care guys that REALLY understood the mac, rather than just read off a trouble shooting manual.

jordansampson
Aug 21, 2006, 03:34 PM
Cant Hurt To Try It?

CyberPrey
Aug 21, 2006, 03:36 PM
Someone Could Just Call Apple And Ask If They Had Plans To Upgrade The X1900? Then If They Do Ask If Thats Why The Delay Is So Long. If They Say No, Tell Them You Would Like To Cancle Your Order And Wait. They Will Let You In On Their Little "secret" If Its Realy The Case.

Like I Said, It Makes No Sence. People Have Planed Shipping Dates Of Sep 8th And 9th. And 4 Days Dosent Realy Give Them Much Time To Config All The Upgraded Computers Before They Start Mass Shipping Them. I Realy Wouldnt Be 100% At This Point.. More Like 2%

didn't work.... the people I talked to are pathetically clueless on things. I am totally brand new to the newer Mac's, and >>I<< knew more than the two people I talked to....

kered22
Aug 21, 2006, 03:39 PM
Did they tell the MacBook Pro buyers?? I'm not familiar with that case, anyone?
:confused:
When they were announced, they were 1.6 and 1.8Ghz, when they shipped, Apple bumped the 1.6 to 1.8 and the 1.8 to 2Ghz and added the 2.1 Ghz option.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/02/14/macbookpro/index.php

So a surpise is possible, either a surprise upgrade or there were some unexpected bugs that creeped in.

Krevnik
Aug 21, 2006, 04:04 PM
it wouldn't be the first time they've dont that, so this isnt' a reason to hope.. it's more to do with that date.. Like others said, the 1900 has been out for a while; why would there be a shortage of a GPU that's been produced for the last 6-8 months??

This could make waiting REALLY worth it! :D

Not a shortage of the GPU, per se... but rather timing issues on firmware changes, and manufacturing of the board with the larger ROM chip.

And mine is supposed to ship by the 12th... a little too soon for Apple to have X1950s tested and in-hand for shipping methinks.

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 04:14 PM
Not a shortage of the GPU, per se... but rather timing issues on firmware changes, and manufacturing of the board with the larger ROM chip.

And mine is supposed to ship by the 12th... a little too soon for Apple to have X1950s tested and in-hand for shipping methinks.

Well it is an "estimated ship date" after all.

Think about it. The X1900 is a year old. There is no way in hell i'm wrong!

Krevnik
Aug 21, 2006, 04:28 PM
Well it is an "estimated ship date" after all.

Think about it. The X1900 is a year old. There is no way in hell i'm wrong!

The X1900 is a year old, but this is the first version what will use UGA firmware and the larger ROM chip to support it. You can't just wave away software dev time by saying "Oh, the hardware is a year old". I would give good odds to UGA support being the factor, especially since ATi wouldn't have gotten a good Mac Pro prototype. If something came up broken on the production hardware, delays would happen.

UnixMac
Aug 21, 2006, 04:33 PM
You seem to know about the card K..

What is UGA, and why the bigger ROM.. is this a Mac specific card then? I've heard only the drivers are different from the PC version.. no?

jordansampson
Aug 21, 2006, 04:36 PM
Only One Sur Way To Settle This: Cage Match

Krevnik
Aug 21, 2006, 05:18 PM
You seem to know about the card K..

What is UGA, and why the bigger ROM.. is this a Mac specific card then? I've heard only the drivers are different from the PC version.. no?

I know firmware, considering that is what I spent 3 years working with and studying for college. ;)

For video to work correctly before the OS is loaded (so you can get that nice scrolling startup text on PCs, or the OS selector on Apple's hardware), your BIOS/EFI/OpenFirmware has to be able to talk to the card. Well, it would be poor design if you wired the 'drivers' into the computer's firmware, so the card comes with firmware of its own which is loaded by the PC's firmware and used to talk to the card before the OS' drivers take over.

BIOS, EFI, and OpenFirmware are all different enough that they can't just load one ROM. UGA (Universal Graphics Adapter) is a specification for designing video card firmware that EFI can load, but contains code that BIOS can load too. If you read up a bit on InsideMacGames around MWSF 06, you would have found a news article written from a chat with ATi where they still said the firmware was different from standard PC cards. The reason for the larger ROM is because of the fact that EFI uses bytecode, like Java and OpenFirmware, and contains quite a few libraries. It isn't nearly as simple as the BIOS of yore.

So the reason why Mac cards work in Windows is either the Intel Macs' CSM is emulating the BIOS interface to the video card for Windows (quite possible), or that the video card is running a UGA firmware.

It has already been confirmed that PC cards only work under Windows, so that pretty much tells me that UGA or something related is being used for the Mac cards, and is incompatible with the EFI implementation Apple has. That means dev work for ATi before they can launch (and the x1600 that Apple used was in development for /6/ months before the MWSF launch).

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 05:34 PM
Well I still say i'm right. Humph.

Krevnik
Aug 21, 2006, 05:39 PM
Well I still say i'm right. Humph.

Just don't be disappointed when it turns out to not be true. ;)

These sort of inexplicable, strange, and seemingly silly delays with regard to ATi cards on the Mac aren't exactly news to me.

Mr. Mister
Aug 21, 2006, 06:23 PM
Well I still say i'm right. Humph.
You're an excitable little fella, aren't you?

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 06:24 PM
You're an excitable little fella, aren't you?

Alright fine, maybe i'll get a X1900XT in my computer, but who cares? Am I gonna feel a difference in gameplay? No.

mr.barkan
Aug 21, 2006, 06:46 PM
didnt apple cut relations with ATI??
Like, they where going to use only NVIDIA with they're stuff... or that was with Intel??

cant remember...

ammon
Aug 21, 2006, 09:30 PM
didnt apple cut relations with ATI??

That was a rumor that went around at one point. However Intel did just get friendly with ATI, so if Apple continues to use Intel CPUs then their future with ATI remains to be seen...

Oh, and just a quick note, it looks like the X1950s will be fairly cheap! The X1950 Pro will sell for only $199! (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33809) Granted that is only the Pro version and not the XT version, but still... I would imagine the XT version would be around the $249-$299 price mark.

:) Hopefully this rumor I started turns out to be true.... ;)

macgeek2005
Aug 21, 2006, 10:27 PM
That was a rumor that went around at one point. However Intel did just get friendly with ATI, so if Apple continues to use Intel CPUs then their future with ATI remains to be seen...

Oh, and just a quick note, it looks like the X1950s will be fairly cheap! The X1950 Pro will sell for only $199! (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33809) Granted that is only the Pro version and not the XT version, but still... I would imagine the XT version would be around the $249-$299 price mark.

:) Hopefully this rumor I started turns out to be true.... ;)

There is no "Hopefully" in this case. It's a fact.

1. The X1900XT is a year old.

2. It would not take apple this long to get them ready for the Mac Pro's.

3. It wouldn't be the first time since the Intel Transition began that apple does a surprise bump of some sort to the product, right before it begins shipping.

4. Apple likes to please their customers.

5. The X1950XT supports HDCP and apple is all for High Definition, it's their thing.

Krevnik
Aug 22, 2006, 09:23 AM
There is no "Hopefully" in this case. It's a fact.

Proof? So far you have only offered conjecture.


1. The X1900XT is a year old.


Your point? The G5 got the X800 quite late in the X800s lifespan when everyone was talking about the new X850s. Age of a product rarely means something is new in the pipe when it comes to Apple and video cards. The PowerBook G4 12" used a 5200Go to it's death /this January/, even though it was going on 2-3 years old.


2. It would not take apple this long to get them ready for the Mac Pro's.


It wouldn't... it could easily take ATi this long though. Apple doesn't prepare ATi cards, ATi does for Apple. IIRC, Apple only manufactures their own nVidia boards from the reference designs nVidia provides. Saying Apple is taking longer than normal is irrelevant, since ATi is manufacturing the boards for both CTO and after-market configurations.


3. It wouldn't be the first time since the Intel Transition began that apple does a surprise bump of some sort to the product, right before it begins shipping.


Also notice that there was only one time... and with one product, and /one/ specific component. There is no precedent set IMO when they do it with one product over the course of multiple years. Even if you remove previous years, only one product got bumped at a time the consumer in general (not just Apple's) were complaining about the Core Duo pricing, and AMD was providing market pressure of their own.


4. Apple likes to please their customers.


This may be true, but it is hardly evidence of anything, when they shove a 7300GT as the default card in a Mac Pro without a true mid-line card for those who don't want an X1900, is it?


5. The X1950XT supports HDCP and apple is all for High Definition, it's their thing.


Apple is pushing beyond DVI+HDCP into the new display connector spec which is kinda like HDMI for computers. Apple might not even be interested in BluRay/HD-DVD just yet until things settle down a bit, which is really what everyone but the major stakeholders in the formats have been doing.

Lord Blackadder
Aug 22, 2006, 09:38 AM
Sorry folks, but those hoping for the X1950XTX will be disappointed.

There is always time lag for cards becoming available to the Mac, and when they do arrive they are in chronically short supply - resulting in the long shipping dates. It isn't due to Apple cooking up a nice surprise for us.:(

Flashing a PC card remains the quickest way to get a hot new card in your Mac.

Mr. Mister
Aug 22, 2006, 10:55 AM
2. It would not take apple this long to get them ready for the Mac Pro's.

5. The X1950XT supports HDCP and apple is all for High Definition, it's their thing.
These two strike me as the most foolish. On the first, how the heck do you know? It took Apple months to get the 6800 Ultra shipping, it was a total fiasco.

On the second, "high definition" is something Macs, and all relatively fast computers, are capable of. This point I'm finding hard to argue against simply because it's clear you have little understanding of high def. Current Macs can play 1080p HD video. HDCP and graphics cards have little to nothing to do with this: HDCP is a friggin' Vista gig to control movie piracy, while HDMI has to do more with output to HDTVs than ANYTHING computer-related.


I have to admit though, the timing is quite impeccable and I would very much like to see the X1950 XT come through, but I am quite prepared for when it doesn't.

macgeek2005
Aug 22, 2006, 12:26 PM
I just cancelled my order and re-ordered because my dad wanted to get an ipod for $190 with it. :(

Now my ship date is the 20th of september, delivered by the 27th.

Mr. Mister
Aug 22, 2006, 12:30 PM
Haha, you didn't have to reorder. They don't have to be on the same invoice for the student iPod promotion.

EDIT: They do.

macgeek2005
Aug 22, 2006, 12:43 PM
Haha, you didn't have to reorder. They don't have to be on the same invoice for the student iPod promotion.

EDIT: They do.

Yes... they do!

Mr. Mister
Aug 22, 2006, 01:00 PM
Am I screwed if they shipped seperately as they became available? What do they treat as "the receipt" to prove it?

Never mind:

"If my products are on the same sales order but are shipped on different dates with two separate receipts, will I still qualify?

Yes. If multiple receipts have the same sales order or web order number, they satisfy the same-day and same-receipt requirement. You must submit both receipts. You must submit the rebate within 30 days of the last ship date."

Very good.

macgeek2005
Aug 22, 2006, 01:08 PM
Am I screwed if they shipped seperately as they became available? What do they treat as "the receipt" to prove it?

Never mind:

"If my products are on the same sales order but are shipped on different dates with two separate receipts, will I still qualify?

Yes. If multiple receipts have the same sales order or web order number, they satisfy the same-day and same-receipt requirement. You must submit both receipts. You must submit the rebate within 30 days of the last ship date."

Very good.

Wow you sound like gollum. Seriously, stop talking to yourself like that it's hard to follow.

So basically they do have to have the same order number. That's why I reordered.

mr.barkan
Aug 22, 2006, 01:10 PM
That was a rumor that went around at one point. However Intel did just get friendly with ATI, so if Apple continues to use Intel CPUs then their future with ATI remains to be seen...

Oh, and just a quick note, it looks like the X1950s will be fairly cheap! The X1950 Pro will sell for only $199! (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33809) Granted that is only the Pro version and not the XT version, but still... I would imagine the XT version would be around the $249-$299 price mark.

:) Hopefully this rumor I started turns out to be true.... ;)


Acctually I just remembered...
Didn't AMD buy ATI??
Or something like it?? (memory is still tricking me) :p

macgeek2005
Aug 22, 2006, 01:11 PM
Acctually I just remembered...
Didn't AMD buy ATI??
Or something like it?? (memory is still tricking me) :p

Yes but apperently it hasn't affected anything yet.

mr.barkan
Aug 22, 2006, 02:03 PM
Yes but apperently it hasn't affected anything yet.

Yet, my friend! lol

PC market is a :eek:itch ;)

ammon
Aug 22, 2006, 08:57 PM
Yet, my friend!

While this will have an effect on future development (ie 1-2 years down the road), current products and release schedules will remain unchanged. It is still a fact that ATI is the largest supplier of Intel northbridges with decent onboard graphics.

So, yes this deal will change things in the future, for the next couple years I doubt we will see much change. Now, the Mac Pro rev D (coming to an Apple store near you by Q4 2008) will most likely not have any ATI GPUs unless Apple decides to go with AMD.


But back to the thread...

The posibility of us seeing the X1950 XT ship in our Mac Pros is nothing more than a little man's wish. But hey, whats wrong with wishing?!?

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 11:48 AM
Well, ATI announced the cards today.

macgeek2005
Aug 23, 2006, 12:09 PM
Well, ATI announced the cards today.

Hmmm... I think this little man's wish is turning from fantasy to fact with each word I type.

bbrosemer
Aug 23, 2006, 12:18 PM
Here is my theory, AMD when is the last time they put out a processor, well apparantly it takes just as long to make g-cards. JK:p

jordansampson
Aug 23, 2006, 12:23 PM
so i called apple to ask them. They said that they currently have no information on how long it will take for apple to start including X1950's. There is no plan in the works to upgrade their current mac pro graphics cards. One person i talked to said if she had to give me a number it would be in roughly two months, before apple started thinking about the X1950. Even then it would be in addition to the X1900. Of course this could all be BS, but its what the apple rep said.

its important to remember that though it was "released" today, it was only released in small numbers. It will not be until September 14th that they are available readily. And even then it will take a while for apple to support it.

I do understand that in the past Apple has surprised their customers with sudden last minute upgrades. But this was always done prior to shipping some. It would not be fair to the customers who have already received their pro’s to suddenly offer a free upgrade to certain people.

I wish it was true, but at this time im going to have to say that this is only a wish. Don’t worry im not nearly arrogant enough to refer to you as a little man for simply having a theory.

macgeek2005
Aug 23, 2006, 12:26 PM
so i called apple to ask them. They said that they currently have no information on how long it will take for apple to start including X1950's. There is no plan in the works to upgrade their current mac pro graphics cards. One person i talked to said if she had to give me a number it would be in roughly two months, before apple started thinking about the X1950. Even then it would be in addition to the X1900. Of course this could all be BS, but its what the apple rep said.

its important to remember that though it was "released" today, it was only released in small numbers. It will not be until September 14th that they are available readily. And even then it will take a while for apple to support it.

I do understand that in the past Apple has surprised their customers with sudden last minute upgrades. But this was always done prior to shipping some. It would not be fair to the customers who have already received their pro’s to suddenly offer a free upgrade to certain people.

I wish it was true, but at this time im going to have to say that this is only a wish. Don’t worry im not nearly arrogant enough to refer to you as a little man for simply having a theory.

But the X1900XT is a year old!!! How can they do this to us? What's wrong with them? The X1950XTX is here, and ready. What's the problem? Have they always been like this? I don't want yesterdays technology. I just spent 5 grand on a computer system, and i'm getting a year old video card when the next one is ALREADY out. I mean, come on. I'm calling apple right now, and raising a stink about it. I'm gonna be so furious, the apple rep will have only two options, hang up the phone, or put the X1950XTX in my mac pro!

jordansampson
Aug 23, 2006, 12:29 PM
hey man all the power to ya. But the fact is that its not "out yet" more so than leopard is "out". Its is being made available to small numbers of people (like leopard) and its not scheduled for full launch until September.

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 01:11 PM
Nope, sorry, they've been being manufactured in quantities for a few weeks now and will be shipping in quantities by the 13th.

jordansampson
Aug 23, 2006, 01:14 PM
and what did apple say when you just called them ?

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 01:18 PM
and what did apple say when you just called them ?
Who? I didn't call them, I was talking about the X1950's being manufactured by ATI.

Wintrmte
Aug 23, 2006, 01:18 PM
and what did apple say when you just called them ?

I don't think that Apple will readily say to be honest. I placed the order for my X1900 XT upgrade and it says my ship date is Sept. 27th.

It is entirely possible that the X1900 XT card will actually be the 1950 version in my honest opinion.

I am sure that Appled will make an announcement soon if they are truly intending to ship the 1950 instead of the 1900's.

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 01:21 PM
I think that Apple wants to gigve the impression that they mean business in terms of cutting-edge hardware in their workstations, post-Intel transition.

jordansampson
Aug 23, 2006, 01:26 PM
... hey like i said, its what they told me. but it coul dbe BS


Now keeping in mind i told them i would like to cancel my order if they had plans on releasing it in the next month. they told me they didnt etc etc. So lying to a customer after he askes a direct question isnt the best legal policy.

macgeek2005
Aug 23, 2006, 02:19 PM
I think they'll put the X1950 in.....

jordansampson
Aug 23, 2006, 02:25 PM
i hope they do. all im saying is they said they wernt

macgeek2005
Aug 23, 2006, 02:27 PM
i hope they do. all im saying is they said they wernt

They lie. If they want it to be a surprise, they're not gonna tell you.

edit: Check out my sig.

jordansampson
Aug 23, 2006, 02:29 PM
... wow your dullusional

macgeek2005
Aug 23, 2006, 02:32 PM
... wow your dullusional

I'm just putting the frequency out into the universe.

jordansampson
Aug 23, 2006, 02:37 PM
good luck man. just dont get your hopes up

milozauckerman
Aug 23, 2006, 02:41 PM
The secret launch makes absolutely no sense.

If they were delaying specifically to give you the latest and greatest, they'd be telling anyone who'd listen and they'd have it on the configuration page - the x1950 justifies a longer wait for those holding out, makes Apple look good, generates sales from people who don't want the x1900 anymore, etc..

It's entirely possible that you'll get an X1950, but if it happens, Apple wasn't planning anything - they just can't find their arse with their hands.

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 04:33 PM
... wow your dullusional
Maybe you could have used a few of these spare parts:

"delusional"

"you're"

","

"."

Now that he got schooled, back on topic:

I think Apple should send out an email asking if you'd want to pay $50-$100 extra for the X1950 XT.

ammon
Aug 23, 2006, 05:39 PM
I think Apple should send out an email asking if you'd want to pay $50-$100 extra for the X1950 XT.

If they did, I'd sure put up the extra $50! :)

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 05:57 PM
Otherwise they'd be dicks if they added it a week or two later.

ammon
Aug 23, 2006, 06:43 PM
Well, I guess I won't be too disappointed if we only get the X1900 XT like we ordered.

I was just looking at some benchmarks on The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33872) and I'm not all that impressed. I thought the difference would be much bigger!

In Quake 4, there is less than 1 frame difference for any resolution under
2048x1536. Even at that resolution it the X1950 XT only gets an extra 1.6 fps.

In Doom 3 there is less than 3 fps difference across the board w/o FSAA. Even with it there is still only 4.5 fps difference.


Granted the X1950XT is a little faster than the X1900XT, but that is it. Only a "little" faster. Even the reviewers state that they were not that impressed. After all, it is only going from the 1900 - 1950. How much difference can there really be in only 50? :)

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 07:02 PM
It's not about the speed, it's about the image quality, which the X1950 features more features to increase.

ammon
Aug 23, 2006, 07:11 PM
It's not about the speed, it's about the image quality, which the X1950 features more features to increase.

Not exactly. The GPU core (R580) is basically the same. The only real difference is a faster memory controller and a better cooling system. Period.

So, no. Speed is the only difference.

Mr. Mister
Aug 23, 2006, 08:15 PM
Well, I guess I won't be too disappointed if we only get the X1900 XT like we ordered.

I was just looking at some benchmarks on The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33872) and I'm not all that impressed. I thought the difference would be much bigger!

In Quake 4, there is less than 1 frame difference for any resolution under
2048x1536. Even at that resolution it the X1950 XT only gets an extra 1.6 fps.

In Doom 3 there is less than 3 fps difference across the board w/o FSAA. Even with it there is still only 4.5 fps difference.


Granted the X1950XT is a little faster than the X1900XT, but that is it. Only a "little" faster. Even the reviewers state that they were not that impressed. After all, it is only going from the 1900 - 1950. How much difference can there really be in only 50? :)
The real problem is that there aren't any games that bring either of them below 80 frames per second. Right now it seems that they're limited by have quickly the CPU can work out the polygons, if there was an absolute crashtest of a game that gave 30FPS or so, then we might see one come through over the other.

napolihos
Aug 24, 2006, 06:40 AM
Not exactly. The GPU core (R580) is basically the same. The only real difference is a faster memory controller and a better cooling system. Period.
So, no. Speed is the only difference.

According to dailytec (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3446) - The "Radeon X1950 will retain all of the features of the Radeon X1900, and really only have the added benefit of a new cooler, GDDR4 memory and different frequency clocks." Additionally, according to the inquirer article that macgeek2005 mentioned, a version of the card should also have support for HDCP. With similar performance between the 1900 and the 1950, to me, the quieter/cooler card and the HDCP support of the 1950 are the more important factors. As the HD-DVD v Blueray war settles out, we're all going to need HDCP caple cards AND displays/TVs in order to watch the hi-def content these drives serve up. Personally, I'd rather get an HDCP capable card with my new Mac Pro if at all possible.

Of course, the stumbling block in all this is that my new 23" ACD (also ordered with my new system) isn't currently HDCP capable. I'll be upset about dropping a grand on this display if Apple refreshes their Cinema line with HDCP support a couple of months from now. That's honestly a bigger deal to me than the vid-card.

Honestly, I hope the theory in this thread is true. I'd love to have the most capable and future proof card I can get in my system. But either way, some of us are going to be pissed about dropping a ton of money on components that won't play well together as this whole hi-def, DRM, connector battle plays itself out.

Mr. Mister
Aug 24, 2006, 10:10 AM
Problem is, neither Apple nor Mac OS X acknowledges the existence of HDCP and Apple has made no announcements that they will ever integrate HDCP DRM tech into their operating system. Right now the big HDCP advocate is Microsoft.

padré
Aug 24, 2006, 01:55 PM
though i don't think that the mac pro's will ship with the x1950, i shure hope so...

anyways i noticed that when you go to the home page of ati their is this movie that showcases some games using the X1950 the screen they use look A lot like a mac screen :s, maybe its a clue, on the other hand it might be me just hoping for to much

macgeek2005
Aug 24, 2006, 02:01 PM
though i don't think that the mac pro's will ship with the x1950, i shure hope so...

anyways i noticed that when you go to the home page of apple their is this movie that showcases some games using the X1950 the screen they use look A lot like a mac screen :s, maybe its a clue, on the other hand it might be me just hoping for to much

What? On the homepage of apple? What are you talking about? Link please?

padré
Aug 24, 2006, 02:31 PM
here is the link, http://www.ati.com/ (sorry i ment the homepage of ati)
the movie will start automaticly...

i know that the monitor doesn't show any manifacture label but it looks a lot like one of apple's.

anyways if its not you might tell me what kind of monitor that is because I need a new one when i have my mac pro :o

Daspeed
Aug 24, 2006, 02:49 PM
here is the link, http://www.ati.com/ (sorry i ment the homepage of ati)
the movie will start automaticly...

i know that the monitor doesn't show any manifacture label but it looks a lot like one of apple's.

anyways if its not you might tell me what kind of monitor that is because I need a new one when i have my mac pro :o
It probably is a cinema display, but they are nice screens and often buyed by 'non-applers' too.

By the way, am I the only one that has seen his shipping date going from 15 to 21 Sep and delivery date from 20 to 26 Sep?
My Mac Pro was ordered August 11th.

jordansampson
Aug 24, 2006, 02:51 PM
yep mine was pushed back as well.. but they addes express shipping for no charge.

kered22
Aug 24, 2006, 02:56 PM
I ordered on the 19th of August, got a date of the 19th of September for shipping and delivery by the 21st. Been like that ever since. Though I had a dream last night that it changed to a much earlier date. LOL Think the waiting is getting to me.

Be nice if Apple would do what they did with the GeForce 4 Tis, ship the systems out with the stock video card, then ship the high end card when they're ready.

Daspeed
Aug 24, 2006, 03:00 PM
I ordered on the 19th of August, got a date of the 19th of September for shipping and delivery by the 21st. Been like that ever since. Though I had a dream last night that it changed to a much earlier date. LOL Think the waiting is getting to me.

Be nice if Apple would do what they did with the GeForce 4 Tis, ship the systems out with the stock video card, then ship the high end card when they're ready.
Did you order the X1900, bluetooth and airport?


yep mine was pushed back as well.. but they addes express shipping for no charge.

Nothing changed on my order I believe :(

macgeek2005
Aug 24, 2006, 03:45 PM
That's funny, I ordered only 2 days ago on August 22nd, and my ship date is the 20th of september, with delivery on the 27th. My dates haven't been pushed back.

Daspeed
Aug 24, 2006, 03:48 PM
That's funny, I ordered only 2 days ago on August 22nd, and my ship date is the 20th of september, with delivery on the 27th. My dates haven't been pushed back.
Do you have X1900, airport and bluetooth?

kered22
Aug 24, 2006, 03:49 PM
Did you order the X1900, bluetooth and airport?
Just the X1900, 2.66Ghz, 2 GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive.

Daspeed
Aug 24, 2006, 03:52 PM
Just the X1900, 2.66Ghz, 2 GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive.
Then the delay is probably in the bluetooth or airport.

napolihos
Aug 24, 2006, 03:53 PM
Did you order the X1900, bluetooth and airport?(

I ordered my mac pro on 21 August with following upgrades: x1900xt (1950xtx), Airport/BT, and 2 gig ram - estimated ship date of 19 Sep and hasn't changed.

Glen Quagmire
Aug 24, 2006, 03:54 PM
My dates have been bought forward by two days (from the 27th to the 25th of September).

This is for a Mac Pro with the X1900 graphics card, Airport and Bluetooth, as well as 2GB of RAM, the 3Ghz CPUs and a smaller hard drive. I ordered it on Sunday 20th August.

macgeek2005
Aug 24, 2006, 03:55 PM
Do you have X1900, airport and bluetooth?

Yes. I have everything.

UnixMac
Aug 24, 2006, 04:43 PM
too add fuel to the rumor of upgrades..

Here is the email I got from Apple re: the iMac I just ordered for my kids..



To Our Valued Apple Customer:


Apple is pleased to let you know that we have upgraded the iMac you recently
ordered from the 160GB Serial ATA drive to the 250GB Serial ATA drive at no
additional charge.



Did they do it because I dropped close to $10K in the past week? or were they out of 160GB's?? or is the new spec for the iMac 250GB?? Who knows... maybe the X1950XTX is not too far fetched! :D

UnixMac
Aug 24, 2006, 04:48 PM
Well, I guess I won't be too disappointed if we only get the X1900 XT like we ordered.

I was just looking at some benchmarks on The Inquirer (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33872) and I'm not all that impressed. I thought the difference would be much bigger!

In Quake 4, there is less than 1 frame difference for any resolution under
2048x1536. Even at that resolution it the X1950 XT only gets an extra 1.6 fps.

In Doom 3 there is less than 3 fps difference across the board w/o FSAA. Even with it there is still only 4.5 fps difference.


Granted the X1950XT is a little faster than the X1900XT, but that is it. Only a "little" faster. Even the reviewers state that they were not that impressed. After all, it is only going from the 1900 - 1950. How much difference can there really be in only 50? :)

Is Quake IV native for Intel? Universal Binary? Any other games that way.. Halo, Doom III, etc.. ?

kered22
Aug 24, 2006, 04:57 PM
Is Quake IV native for Intel? Universal Binary? Any other games that way.. Halo, Doom III, etc.. ?
Quake IV shipped as a UB, following update added the SMP support. Doom III has been UB since February I believe. Call of Duty 2 and Civilization IV shipped as UBs too and the Halo UB was just announced about a week ago I believe ($10 upgrade since they had re-write a lot of the code).

EDIT: Just rememberd macrumors has a UB guide Wiki:
http://guides.macrumors.com/Universal_Binary_Games

UnixMac
Aug 24, 2006, 05:05 PM
EDIT: Just rememberd macrumors has a UB guide Wiki:
http://guides.macrumors.com/Universal_Binary_Games

that's golden! Thanks.. so like in the example of DoomIII, you just download the UB update, and bag! you're UB?? OR do you have to repurchase a post Feb2006 version?

thanks

macgeek2005
Aug 24, 2006, 05:18 PM
that's golden! Thanks.. so like in the example of DoomIII, you just download the UB update, and bag! you're UB?? OR do you have to repurchase a post Feb2006 version?

thanks

All you need to do is download the update... it's free.

UnixMac
Aug 24, 2006, 05:21 PM
All you need to do is download the update... it's free.

cool, I'm doing that now.. btw, and you'll have to do this too.. When we get the new Pro's and connect the old and new Mac's together to move over our stuff.. will apps also transfer? or do we need to re-install Doom III, Photoshop, etc? Do you have a G5 you're replacing btw?

macgeek2005
Aug 24, 2006, 06:26 PM
cool, I'm doing that now.. btw, and you'll have to do this too.. When we get the new Pro's and connect the old and new Mac's together to move over our stuff.. will apps also transfer? or do we need to re-install Doom III, Photoshop, etc? Do you have a G5 you're replacing btw?

I have already sold the G4 tower that I was replacing. I took all 400GB of stuff and put it on external hard drives.

All my games, I plan on reinstalling on the new Mac Pro from the original disks.

Any software that I want on my Mac Pro I will install on it directly from the original disks. I don't think it's a good idea to drag over already installed applications.

Other than that, i'll drag my itunes library folder into it's respective place, i'll drop some saved games and such into documents, my iphoto library into pictures, and that's about it.

kered22
Aug 24, 2006, 07:58 PM
In the case of Call of Duty 2, you can just transfer the Game folder (with saved games) from a PPC Mac to an Intel Mac. I was curious about how COD 2 ran on my G5 versus my Dads Macbook Pro (it kicked my G5s ass BTW LOL) and wanted to try the Point Du Hoc mission since it had so much stuff going on. I just had to manually change the permissions but it loaded those fine.

So you should be okay with the others as long as the Apps are the same version. I the case of Quake IV, when the SMP update came out, I think it broke the previous game saves, so you had to re-play those through. Same with Halo, the old game saves won't work with the new UB.

Mr. Mister
Aug 24, 2006, 09:38 PM
The thing is that even if the diff between X1900 XTX and X1950 XTX isn't that great, if Apple changes the 1900 to 1950 they'll be forced to change the XT to XTX.

ammon
Aug 25, 2006, 07:23 AM
The thing is that even if the diff between X1900 XTX and X1950 XTX isn't that great, if Apple changes the 1900 to 1950 they'll be forced to change the XT to XTX.

Actually I doubt this would be the case. The only difference between the XTX and the XT is 25 MHz GPU clock speed and 50 MHz memory speed. Because Apple likes their cards to run cooler/quieter, I doubt they would increase these speeds.

It was noted somewhere else that Apple actually had the speed of both the GPU and memory lowered. But good thought!

Mr. Mister
Aug 25, 2006, 09:58 AM
It was noted somewhere else that Apple actually had the speed of both the GPU and memory lowered. But good thought!
If somebody said that about the Mac X1900 XT, they're full of it. I can't find anywhere on Apple's site where they note the core/mem clockspeed, so it's pure conjecture as to whether they changed it at all.

relimw
Aug 25, 2006, 12:16 PM
Oh, and just a quick note, it looks like the X1950s will be fairly cheap! The X1950 Pro will sell for only $199! (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33809) Granted that is only the Pro version and not the XT version, but still... I would imagine the XT version would be around the $249-$299 price mark.

Per the ATI press release (http://ir.ati.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=105421&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=898452):
On September 14th, both the Radeon X1950 XTX and Radeon X1950 CrossFire Edition will ship from retailers, system integrators, with an estimated street price of US$449 or EUR399 (VAT included) for each card. The Radeon X1950 family will also be available shortly from leading OEM vendors, including Dell.
On a side note, does this mean 'leading OEM vendors' will be shipping before retailers?

Dreadnought
Aug 25, 2006, 12:20 PM
They always have done it in the past. And I have read here somewhere on MR that someone had found it, but don't know in which thread that was.

Lord Blackadder
Aug 25, 2006, 12:58 PM
If somebody said that about the Mac X1900 XT, they're full of it. I can't find anywhere on Apple's site where they note the core/mem clockspeed, so it's pure conjecture as to whether they changed it at all.

Many of Apple's video cards have been conservatively clocked to boost reliability and lower heat output/fan speeds. They did it with most of the Radeon 9xxx series, for example.

I wouldn't be surprised...

Daspeed
Aug 25, 2006, 01:16 PM
If somebody said that about the Mac X1900 XT, they're full of it. I can't find anywhere on Apple's site where they note the core/mem clockspeed, so it's pure conjecture as to whether they changed it at all.

http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2811&p=7


The Radeon X1900 XT used in the Mac Pro appears to have a 1.3GHz memory clock, which is slower than the 1.45GHz clock of the PC version. The core clock is also slower than the PC version at 600MHz, instead of 625MHz. Historically, ATI Mac Edition cards have always been clocked lower than their PC counterparts; ATI explained the reasoning behind this disparity as having to do with basic supply and demand. The demand for Mac video cards is lower than their PC counterparts, so ATI runs them at lower clock speeds to maintain their desired profit per card regardless of whether they are selling to Mac or PC markets.

Mr. Mister
Aug 25, 2006, 03:15 PM
Yes but where'd they find those figures?

Daspeed
Aug 25, 2006, 03:19 PM
Yes but where'd they find those figures?
Good question, I don't know (although I've been hearing these lower clocked card stories on Macs for a longer time). Anandtech is a reasonable reliable resource so, I wouldn't bet they're wrong.

Mr. Mister
Aug 25, 2006, 03:31 PM
I'm just going to email the guy methinks.

ammon
Aug 25, 2006, 05:40 PM
I'm just going to email the guy methinks.

Please let us know what you find out!

Mr. Mister
Aug 26, 2006, 08:59 AM
Please let us know what you find out!
I will, emailed him last night and haven't gotten a response yet but it's only 10:00 in the morning right now.

ammon
Aug 27, 2006, 09:25 AM
Interesting note - Tomorrow marks the first day that Apple *might* have started shipping the x1900xt.

When I placed my order (Aug 7th) they had a shipping time of 3 - 5 weeks. Well, tomorrow marks the end of the third week!

Anyone got a shipping notice yet? ;)

Chone
Aug 27, 2006, 10:47 AM
Whats the big deal anyways? You can overclock the difference without voiding your warranty.

Lord Blackadder
Aug 27, 2006, 06:43 PM
Whats the big deal anyways? You can overclock the difference without voiding your warranty.

Maybe...or maybe not. It's up to Apple.

The downclock won't be noticable for most people, and it's true that returning the core/mem speeds to their "factory" PC settings probably won't hurt the card at all. On the other hand turning the speed up will also probably not be noticable for most people - a 10 or 20% core/mem increase will not result in a corresponding increase in frames per second.

macgeek2005
Aug 27, 2006, 07:39 PM
Any updates on the status of the X1900XT delay?

ammon
Aug 27, 2006, 09:29 PM
Any updates on the status of the X1900XT delay?

Yeah - They are still delayed.

:) Sorry, I had to! :)

Lord Blackadder
Aug 28, 2006, 09:00 AM
My guess is that the shipping dates may slip due to higher than expected demand for the ATI card...don't hold your breath. The GeForce 7800GT was never a fast shipper at any point in the G5 Quad's life, so I don't expect any different here.

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 09:31 AM
Any updates on the status of the X1900XT delay?
Technically it's not delayed since we're not at those five weeks yet.

My guess is that the shipping dates may slip due to higher than expected demand for the ATI card...don't hold your breath. The GeForce 7800GT was never a fast shipper at any point in the G5 Quad's life, so I don't expect any different here.
Phil Schiller, sounds like people don't want cards that either suck, don't meet their mid-range criteria, or take a month to ship!

Lord Blackadder
Aug 28, 2006, 09:46 AM
Phil Schiller, sounds like people don't want cards that either suck, don't meet their mid-range criteria, or take a month to ship!

I agree, and hope someone from Apple is reading this.

Right now in the PC world, a "mid range" card is a GeForce 7600GT, 6800GT, Radeon X800XT/X850XT/X1600XT. The X1900XT is a great high-end card , but out of most people's price range. The 7300GT that comes with the Mac Pro is a "budget" card, which would be OK if you could easily upgrade to a midrange card. But you can't.

I think Apple needs to fill that midrange gap in price/performance with one of the mid-level cards I listed above, and make it available. They should have XFX, ASUS, BFG or one of the other big video card manufactureres make them in quantity, since those companies are already cranking out said cards like hotcakes - all Apple needs to do is email them a damned ROM file and we would all be happy.

Pretty much the only way you could get a midrange card in the Mac Pro right now would be to buy a PC Radeon X1600XT, put a 128k ROM chip on it and flash it with a ROM file from the iMac's X1600XT...maybe.

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 11:20 AM
Has anyone's Mac Pro with X1900XT shipped yet?

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 11:38 AM
I was tempted to say that mine has just to spite you, but not to my knowledge is it even being 'built'.

MacRumorUser
Aug 28, 2006, 11:42 AM
I was tempted to say that mine has just to spite you, but not to my knowledge is it even being 'built'.

Are X1900XT shipping in the pc universe yet either?

Fadl
Aug 28, 2006, 11:46 AM
Are X1900XT shipping in the pc universe yet either?

Yeah, since many months. ;)

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 12:20 PM
Some guy over here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2767252&postcount=66) says his order can't be canceled, therefore it might be shipping soon. This could be for other reasons but we can hope.

Are X1900XT shipping in the pc universe yet either?
Only for half a year or so.

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 12:24 PM
The reason I'm suspicious is because it says "items cannot be individually canceled", suggesting that the order as a whole can be canceled.

MacRumorUser
Aug 28, 2006, 12:26 PM
The reason I'm suspicious is because it says "items cannot be individually canceled", suggesting that the order as a whole can be canceled.


Yeah that's usually the sign that your order is in the process of being prepped ready to ship alright.

Only for half a year or so.

I thought so. It still begs the question why the delay then? You would think they would have stockpiled enough of them by now, is it all down to the mac specific bios?

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 12:34 PM
The happy theory was that they were waiting for the soon-to-be-officially-released X1950 XTX, but not that seems doubtful with no official announcement from them.

Krevnik
Aug 28, 2006, 12:58 PM
Yeah that's usually the sign that your order is in the process of being prepped ready to ship alright.

Which makes me nervous now, since I ordered on the day of the keynote... and mine hasn't been locked down yet. Strange. You would think that an order placed on Aug 7th would take priority over one placed on Aug 23rd... or hopefully they are just really, really random on which orders are getting updated throughout the day.


I thought so. It still begs the question why the delay then? You would think they would have stockpiled enough of them by now, is it all down to the mac specific bios?

The firmware is really the only thing I can think of... that and a UGA firmware flash is 128KB instead of 64KB... meaning that different firmware chips might have been needed if they were penny-pinchers (which I am willing to bet).

I'mAMac
Aug 28, 2006, 02:20 PM
do you think apple will add the 1950xtx to their configuration options?:eek:

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 02:45 PM
do you think apple will add the 1950xtx to their configuration options?:eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 05:48 PM
I don't really care either way since both the X1900 XT and X1950 XTX are cards on the edge of the precipice before we fall into ATI X2900 XTXs and Nvidia 8800GTXs. Any money you spend on these cards is just going to be wasted on something that in November or December is going to be wiped away with the arrival of incredibly fast next-generation cards.

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 06:15 PM
I don't really care either way since both the X1900 XT and X1950 XTX are cards on the edge of the precipice before we fall into ATI X2900 XTXs and Nvidia 8800GTXs. Any money you spend on these cards is just going to be wasted on something that in November or December is going to be wiped away with the arrival of incredibly fast next-generation cards.

Well, fortunetaly for us, the Mac Pro's graphics card is upgradeable. And since we aren't moving away from PCI-Express quite yet, we can put ATI X2900XTX's into our machines, given apple makes it an option in the Mac Pro, and offers an upgrade kit.

No problem. Nobody panic. These machines are UPGRADEABLE!

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 06:18 PM
given apple makes it an option in the Mac Pro, and offers an upgrade kit.

Even better, if ATI and Nvidia offer marginally more expensive cards that we don't have to pay 50% more for.

I'mAMac
Aug 28, 2006, 06:21 PM
the x1900's are not dx 10 compatible right? if theyre not, will they be completely obsolete when dx10 and vista come out? i dont know whether i should wait or not!!

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 06:24 PM
Even better, if ATI and Nvidia offer marginally more expensive cards that we don't have to pay 50% more for.

I beg your pardon? 50% more? We're not paying 50% more right now....

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 06:26 PM
the x1900's are not dx 10 compatible right?
No sir, nothing really is right now. It's unclear to me whether it's purely a software difference of not, in the former case there could be some way of running DX10 natively on pre-Vista cards. U believe Nvidia was claiming DX10-compliancy on their 7900GTX for a while, not sure what's going to become of that.

Overall, I wouldn't worry about it since the onslaught of DX10 photorealistic games will probably be better experienced with one of the a new-generation cards coming out this winter, and because there's going to be a great long period of DX9 legacy support.

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 06:30 PM
I beg your pardon? 50% more? We're not paying 50% more right now....
7300 = $40, upgrade to 1900 = $350, adds up to be almost $400 and those cards are $320 on Newegg right now and will probably dive even lower with the X1950 XTX official release.

So you're paying roughly 33% more for the BTO upgrade, but that's not even mentioning the upgrade kit, which is the format in which future GPU upgrades from Apple will come. When you talk about the upgrade kit, you're looking at paying more than 50% more than Newegg price for the same card, maybe even underclocked.

I'mAMac
Aug 28, 2006, 06:31 PM
No sir, nothing really is right now. It's unclear to me whether it's purely a software difference of not, in the former case there could be some way of running DX10 natively on pre-Vista cards. U believe Nvidia was claiming DX10-compliancy on their 7900GTX for a while, not sure what's going to become of that.

Overall, I wouldn't worry about it since the onslaught of DX10 photorealistic games will probably be better experienced with one of the a new-generation cards coming out this winter, and because there's going to be a great long period of DX9 legacy support.
so would it be smart to get a 1900 xt now?

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 06:33 PM
No sir, nothing really is right now. It's unclear to me whether it's purely a software difference of not, in the former case there could be some way of running DX10 natively on pre-Vista cards. U believe Nvidia was claiming DX10-compliancy on their 7900GTX for a while, not sure what's going to become of that.

Overall, I wouldn't worry about it since the onslaught of DX10 photorealistic games will probably be better experienced with one of the a new-generation cards coming out this winter, and because there's going to be a great long period of DX9 legacy support.

Well whatever. As soon as the X1900XT is replaced by the next generation card in the Mac Pro, i'll sell my X1900XT on ebay, and buy the new card's upgrade kit. :D

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 06:35 PM
Well, I'm guessing the next Mac Pro update, accompanied by GPU updates that will probably include DX10 cards, will be in January. So from a "grand scheme of things" perspective, it's terribly dumb since you're buying the last of a generation soon to be superceded. However, if you want decent graphics performance whatsoever until then, it's your only choice. I'd personally say go for it, you can easily sell it off for maybe even more than you bought it for to a 7300GT user who doesn't want to pay $500 for their X1900 XT upgrade kit.

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 06:39 PM
Well, I'm guessing the next Mac Pro update, accompanied by GPU updates that will probably include DX10 cards, will be in January. So from a "grand scheme of things" perspective, it's terribly dumb since you're buying the last of a generation soon to be superceded. However, if you want decent graphics performance whatsoever until then, it's your only choice. I'd personally say go for it, you can easily sell it off for maybe even more than you bought it for to a 7300GT user who doesn't want to pay $500 for their X1900 XT upgrade kit.

Money isn't an issue for me.

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 06:47 PM
Why did you get your order pushed back into October to save $70 on a hard drive then?

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 07:00 PM
Why did you get your order pushed back into October to save $70 on a hard drive then?

Well firstly, i'm not stupid. The reason money isn't an issue for me is because I don't waste it when I don't have too.

Secondly, I know that there is no way in hell my computer is arriving at any time close to october.....

BJNY
Aug 28, 2006, 07:26 PM
The Display Rotation feature is not enabled on the 1900 according to www.hardmac.com in case anyone here was expecting it to be.

Mr. Mister
Aug 28, 2006, 07:37 PM
That's unfortunately not too great of a surprise, Apple-provided GPUs have never seemed to work with the ATI software (or is this for a different reason? did they ever change that about the software? -the page won't load for me)

EDIT: Do you still have the page cached or remember roughly what it said?

Rocksteady
Aug 28, 2006, 08:08 PM
do mac video cards run by directx the same way PCs do?

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 08:10 PM
do mac video cards run by directx the same way PCs do?

I don't know. That's what i'm wondering.

I don't even understand what exactly directx is....

If the new video cards specs are alot better then i'll buy one, but if it's simply "direct x 10" I don't get it.......

kered22
Aug 28, 2006, 08:15 PM
Here's the link to the Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX

Quite simply that's the main hurdle for porting games to the Mac. There's no DirectX on the Mac, only OpenGL. All the video cards work with either DirectX or OpenGL, though if you got a DirectX 10 card, it'd probably be more for running Vista.

damado
Aug 28, 2006, 08:16 PM
I just called to upgrade my shipping to overnight. The representative would just tell me that the earliest it could ship was the 5th and the latest the 18th.

They were quick to add the $61 shipping price, but it still says standard =/

I'mAMac
Aug 28, 2006, 08:48 PM
The Display Rotation feature is not enabled on the 1900 according to www.hardmac.com in case anyone here was expecting it to be.
is it better if its enabled? if so would i be able to do it?

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 08:51 PM
Is Display Rotation a good thing? I thought it's just turning your screen at 90 degree angles. Kind of pointless, unless you want to hang your moniter upside down, and see everything straight.

kered22
Aug 28, 2006, 08:57 PM
Is Display Rotation a good thing? I thought it's just turning your screen at 90 degree angles. Kind of pointless, unless you want to hang your moniter upside down, and see everything straight.
Well it's for if you want to run your monitor in Portrait mode, you turn a widescreen display on it's side. You get a REALLY long display vertically.

Rocksteady
Aug 28, 2006, 09:41 PM
Well it's for if you want to run your monitor in Portrait mode, you turn a widescreen display on it's side. You get a REALLY long display vertically.

the computers i use at school have it and i use it all the time for photoshop.... they are pc though (ick) but ya it is useful

macgeek2005
Aug 28, 2006, 11:11 PM
Well I finally decided to ask my uncle.

As some of you may remember, my uncle is a friend of Steve Jobs.

He said that when he asked steve about it, steve only smiled and said that the customers will be pleased.....

freezerburrn
Aug 29, 2006, 12:47 AM
blast, right when I was about to put my order in for the Mac Pro with the 7300, I read macgeek's post and come full circle back to being torn whether or not to put the X1900 into my order.

EvilMonk
Aug 29, 2006, 07:57 AM
Well I finally decided to ask my uncle.

As some of you may remember, my uncle is a friend of Steve Jobs.

He said that when he asked steve about it, steve only smiled and said that the customers will be pleased.....
With the price dropped i think you have your surprise:)

mistafreeze
Aug 29, 2006, 10:23 AM
arrghh! i was just about to order my macpro when i seen in my cart the diff was only 250 between the 1900 and the 7300! why O why!

Mr. Mister
Aug 29, 2006, 10:35 AM
Go for the fast, man.

Mr. Mister
Aug 29, 2006, 10:36 AM
Well I finally decided to ask my uncle.

As some of you may remember, my uncle is a friend of Steve Jobs.

He said that when he asked steve about it, steve only smiled and said that the customers will be pleased.....
...

EvilMonk
Aug 29, 2006, 10:44 AM
...
Maybe its true and maybe my mother is Steve Wozniak:p

napolihos
Aug 29, 2006, 11:20 AM
With the price dropped i think you have your surprise:)

I just got off the phone with Apple and they gave me a $92 discount for the price drop in the vid-card from what was on my 21 August order - down to $230 on the government store! I'll take it. :D

mustard
Aug 29, 2006, 11:29 AM
arrghh! i was just about to order my macpro when i seen in my cart the diff was only 250 between the 1900 and the 7300! why O why!

Just called them up to have my price adjusted - they gave me $100 off and upgraded my shipping for free.:)

macgeek2005
Aug 29, 2006, 12:40 PM
Hmmm, I wonder what all of this means...

jansmith
Aug 29, 2006, 01:02 PM
Just called them up to have my price adjusted - they gave me $100 off and upgraded my shipping for free.:)

I just called them and the person I spoke to knew nothing about a price drop (though my online order status showed the drop), knew nothing about the X1950, and knew nothing about upgraded shipping.

Hopefully, if Apple gave mustard free shipping, we'll all get it, or am I dreaming??? :rolleyes:

I'mAMac
Aug 29, 2006, 01:05 PM
I thought they were giving free shipping no matter what. When I go to the mac pro config page it says 'Free Shipping'. Is that subject to change or is it the area im in?

EvilMonk
Aug 29, 2006, 01:06 PM
I thought they were giving free shipping no matter what. When I go to the mac pro config page it says 'Free Shipping'. Is that subject to change or is it the area im in?
They talk about overnight shipping for free

jansmith
Aug 29, 2006, 01:07 PM
I thought they were giving free shipping no matter what. When I go to the mac pro config page it says 'Free Shipping'. Is that subject to change or is it the area im in?


Sorry... yes, we all get free shipping. Should have said free UPGRADED shipping as mustard reports...

macgeek2005
Aug 29, 2006, 01:07 PM
As reported in another thread, a X1900XT upgrade kit shipped today.

Anyone's Mac Pro's shipping?

Mr. Mister
Aug 29, 2006, 01:21 PM
I'm guessing the upgrade kits are going to be quickest to ship.

Long as I get it within the first week of school I'm happy.

I'mAMac
Aug 29, 2006, 01:23 PM
O ok

I'mAMac
Aug 29, 2006, 01:24 PM
Sorry... yes, we all get free shipping. Should have said free UPGRADED shipping as mustard reports...
O ok
EDIT: my bad about the post above made a ,mistake

Mr. Mister
Aug 29, 2006, 01:26 PM
Do you have a screen name of some sort? You seem full of questions and new to the world of Macs, send me a private message if you want to have a little chat and learn some things.

I'mAMac
Aug 29, 2006, 01:32 PM
Do you have a screen name of some sort? You seem full of questions and new to the world of Macs, send me a private message if you want to have a little chat and learn some things.
me?

Mr. Mister
Aug 29, 2006, 01:43 PM
Yeah.

I'mAMac
Aug 29, 2006, 01:46 PM
No im good...

Spaceman Spiff
Aug 29, 2006, 01:53 PM
Aw, I wish I could've got free overnight shipping. The price change went automatically for me.

evp
Aug 29, 2006, 02:11 PM
What price drop?

In Finnish store the x1900 is still 350 euros (~400 dollars). I hope they will drop it in tune with the American store. Paying almost double for the upgrade is an outrage. (and would make me think about cancelling my order)

I'mAMac
Aug 29, 2006, 02:52 PM
they will drop it in europe just wait a few days :)

Dreadnought
Aug 29, 2006, 03:11 PM
In the Dutch store the X1900 is still 350 Euro, but they now offer a 160 GB HD for the MacPro. This wasn't there before! The only thing is, I want one with two 250 GB HD's, but the second bay (as is the third and fourth) can only be configured with a 500 GB HD. Let's wait and see what happens the next few days!

Daspeed
Aug 29, 2006, 03:14 PM
In the Dutch store the X1900 is still 350 Euro, but they now offer a 160 GB HD for the MacPro. This wasn't there before!

That's strange given the fact that I ordered my Mac Pro August 11th with the 160GB HD :D
(And yes I ordered in the Dutch store...)

Dreadnought
Aug 29, 2006, 03:24 PM
Well, I haven't seen it (or I missed it...)

ammon
Aug 29, 2006, 09:42 PM
Well, it looks like the x1950xt will not materialize. I don't think they would drop the price of the x1900xt just to change it into the x1950xt.

Oh well. Maybe they still integrated the new cooling device?!?!?

cjkihlbom
Aug 30, 2006, 01:12 AM
The Swedish store has now dropped the prices on the X1900 CTO-option and the upgrade kit. Yay!

kered22
Aug 30, 2006, 02:36 AM
Would be nice if today were the day, simple fact of the matter is though, Apples shipping them when they're ready to be shipped. Might be today, might be in one week, might be in two weeks. September 19th (my estimated ship date) isn't that far off. :)

Rocksteady
Aug 30, 2006, 01:22 PM
yay i get my free ipod today!! (i got it from the student deal)

macgeek2005
Aug 30, 2006, 01:24 PM
I'm starting community college on September 18th, and I was hoping to get my Mac Pro at least a few days before that. I'll be away from home from morning until evening every weekday once college starts......

jordansampson
Aug 30, 2006, 01:30 PM
i got free upgraded shipping just for calling them as well. Got my 100 back and my ipod came in last week.

Mr. Mister
Aug 30, 2006, 01:43 PM
i got free upgraded shipping just for calling them as well. Got my 100 back and my ipod came in last week.
How'd you manage to get both the money back and free shipping?

UnixMac
Sep 3, 2006, 12:15 AM
As reported in another thread, a X1900XT upgrade kit shipped today.

Anyone's Mac Pro's shipping?

Just got the email 10 minutes ago (10pm PST) that it's shipping, and due on the 6th of sept! YEAH! :)

That's a full 2.5 weeks sooner that I was originally quoted!

sharkk717
Sep 3, 2006, 01:03 AM
that's awesome, congrats! when did you order/when was your expected ship date?

kered22
Sep 3, 2006, 01:04 AM
Alright! It's about time. :D We demand benchmarks, pics, everything when you get it. ;)

EDIT: Just checked your previous posts, you had a September 19th ship date like mine. Is the tracking showing the origina location yet? Fullerton or Rancho Cordova?

UnixMac
Sep 3, 2006, 01:12 AM
I ordered it Aug 12th, and was originally given 3-5 Weeks, with ship by date of Sept 21.. Then I called to modify my credit card info and was told it was going to ship by the 13th last week, and now (this evening) the email stating that it's already shipped.... and just my luck, we've got a long weekend, as I've paid for expedited shipping which should have only taken 2 days, now 4..

Anyway, I'll prolly take the better part of a day installing all of the RAM, Hard Drives (RAID), migrating software/apps from my Dual G5, etc.. then I can post some pics/info..

I bought Quake IV, which I am told us a UB app, so if someone can explain to me (in simply terms) how to benchmark that game, I'd be glad to get to it.. or maybe someone can point me to an "X-bench" type benchmark to download?

kered22
Sep 3, 2006, 01:20 AM
I bought Quake IV, which I am told us a UB app, so if someone can explain to me (in simply terms) how to benchmark that game, I'd be glad to get to it.. or maybe someone can point me to an "X-bench" type benchmark to download?
Hmm... I ask for the, but I'm not sure how to do the benchmarking... that was your job. LOL I believe there is a way to display the framerate while you're playing and I think you can run the timedemo and that will give you the framerates. I'll try to find that info and post it here.

And yes, Quake IV is a UB right out of the box, but they put out an SMP version which you can grab here:
http://www.macgamefiles.com/detail.php?item=19123

You'll get more framerates since it'll use all the cores, but it has to be enabled in the prefs. The instructions for that are in the ReadMe. :)

EDIT: Here we go:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2006/5/16/3997

You may want to print out that page for reference... does sound a bit involved. If it's easier, you may just want to throw the settings up really high and just see how the game plays. If there are dropped frames or skipping etc.

mustard
Sep 3, 2006, 02:03 AM
Just got the email 10 minutes ago (10pm PST) that it's shipping, and due on the 6th of sept! YEAH! :)

That's a full 2.5 weeks sooner that I was originally quoted!

Just to clarify, did you order the X1900 as an upgrade kit or in a custom Mac Pro configuration.

Spaceman Spiff
Sep 3, 2006, 02:11 AM
Just to clarify, did you order the X1900 as an upgrade kit or in a custom Mac Pro configuration.

I believe, looking at his previous posts, that it was a custom configuration.

There's been another one reported shipped over at AppleInsider.

mustard
Sep 3, 2006, 02:13 AM
I believe, looking at his previous posts, that it was a custom configuration.

There's been another one reported shipped over at AppleInsider.

I assumed as much but just thought I would check - wasn't someone pretending that there upgrade kit shipped last week?

Spaceman Spiff
Sep 3, 2006, 02:39 AM
I assumed as much but just thought I would check - wasn't someone pretending that there upgrade kit shipped last week?

Yes there was... But there's been two reports of custom configurations shipping, this one here and this one (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=962055&postcount=195). So I'm now cautiously optimistic about this.

scud
Sep 3, 2006, 08:32 AM
The guy who reported it at the Appleinsider forums is a guy I trust, wouldn't pull any stunt like this to give people false hope or anything. Not a new user on the forums either. So I say that it's legit.

Link:

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=962055&postcount=195

Edit: oops already linked but whatev

UnixMac
Sep 3, 2006, 09:20 AM
Not only did I order it as a Custom Config, but I changed my order a week later to include less RAM as I bought it at OWC and for the same cost, got 5GB rather than the 4GB from Apple.. I was told this "Could delay" my order, and it obviously didn't.

oddly, I got my hopes up on the 1950 when I got an email from Apple stating that "As a valued customer" I was going to get a free upgrade, but as I read further down, turned out they were referring to my iMac order that I paced at the same time for my kids, which went from a 160GB to 250GB hard drive.

scud
Sep 3, 2006, 10:14 AM
So when does mine ship? :confused:

Fedge
Sep 3, 2006, 10:55 AM
My x1900XT Mac Pro has shipped. It shipped last night, on the 2nd.

See This Thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=230151).

AvSRoCkCO1067
Sep 3, 2006, 11:27 AM
My x1900XT Mac Pro has shipped. It shipped last night, on the 2nd.

See This Thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=230151).

Congrats!

Let us know how everything runs - are you adding more ram?

Fedge
Sep 3, 2006, 11:37 AM
Congrats!

Let us know how everything runs - are you adding more ram?

Yeah, I added another 1GB for a total of 4x512MB. I'm going to discuss all of this in the other thread starting . . . now.

Grokgod
Sep 3, 2006, 11:45 AM
My MAc Pro with the x1900 has shipped also :)

damado
Sep 3, 2006, 11:49 AM
I wonder if this batch of shipments is done or if people will be getting emails throughought the day :confused:

roland-tanguy
Sep 5, 2006, 03:06 AM
Hi there !

Do any of you got his mac pro (with an ati x1900xt), and does it or doest it not support "portrait mode" (rotation) in monitors pref pane ?

And did anyone tryed "switchresX" (www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15467) with that configuration ?

Thank's folks for your answers...

Roland, Paris, France.

mvanhemert
Sep 5, 2006, 10:42 AM
Hi all,

My Mac Pro is also shipped at the 5th Sept. . I ordered it the 28th august.
"shipping date on 23th, estimated arrival date 29th"
So it's faster than expected. It's comming from Ireland to The Netherlands. So it will be here this friday. Can't wait.....
Now i have to make me a Custom XP disk and start creating backups to my
external HD's



Shipped - Sep 5, 2006 via TNT EXPRESS (IRELAND) LIMITED

1 MAC PRO,CTO
Toon info Verberg info
2.66 GHz Quad Xeon
1GB 667 DDR2 FB DIMM ECC-2x512
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB
160GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s drive
16x SuperDrive DL
Airprt Extrm & BT 2.0+EDR-INT
Apple Kybd & Wrls Mgty Ms-Z
MAC OS X-NLD
Country Kit-INTL
Sep 8, 2006

stapler
Sep 5, 2006, 01:13 PM
I'm pretty pissed, somebody with my exact same configuration and exact same order date has already had theirs shipped on Saturday, and my order isn't even uncancellable yet?

Mrjynx
Sep 5, 2006, 03:07 PM
I'm pretty pissed, somebody with my exact same configuration and exact same order date has already had theirs shipped on Saturday, and my order isn't even uncancellable yet?

I'm not really pissed, but check this out..

I've had mine on order since August 7th and it's the EXACT same configuration as mvanhemert and still no shipping notice :mad:

ah well..

stapler
Sep 5, 2006, 03:34 PM
I don't get it at all, it should be first-come, first-serve.

mvanhemert
Sep 5, 2006, 07:50 PM
I'm not really pissed, but check this out..

I've had mine on order since August 7th and it's the EXACT same configuration as mvanhemert and still no shipping notice :mad:

ah well..

Maybe apple stock Ireland get's the ATI card from a different factory elswhere or should all apple stocks get them from the same (china ?)?