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MacRumors
Aug 24, 2006, 05:38 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

One blog claims (http://www.freemacblog.com/no-to-my-order-again/) that bulk orders for the Mac mini are currently being denied until after Labor Day.

I needed to order another bunch to use as Mac mini servers (and to add to my great wall of Apple boxes) but I was told by the reseller (name withdrawn so they don’t get in trouble) that they can’t take big orders (again), but after Labor Day they’d be able to ship plenty of the new model.

The same blog reported a similar pattern prior to the last Mac Mini update in February. Meanwhile, Appleinsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1991) to have independent confirmation of the delay in large orders of Mac Minis.

This timeframe supports earlier claims (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/08/20060814180417.shtml) that Apple would be launching Core 2 Duo (Merom/Conroe) Macs as early in September. The new Core 2 Duo (http://guides.macrumors.com/Core_2_Duo) processors are drop-in replacements for existing Core Duo processors which power the Mac Mini, MacBook, iMac and MacBook Pro.

Sean7512
Aug 24, 2006, 05:42 PM
I hope it happens soon......that new iMac is sounding nice!!! I think it is obviously coming "VERY SOON." What happened to September 5th? Is that the tuesday after labor day, I think it is....

mangis
Aug 24, 2006, 05:42 PM
It May Be Time For A Mac For My Entertainment Center

surroundfan
Aug 24, 2006, 05:42 PM
If there's a dual core base model after 4 September, I'll be very happy...

Roll on 5 September...

AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 24, 2006, 05:43 PM
I hope it happens soon......that new iMac is sounding nice!!! I think it is obviously coming "VERY SOON." What happened to September 5th? Is that the tuesday after labor day, I think it is....

This article refers to the Mac Mini, not the iMac...

Sean7512
Aug 24, 2006, 05:50 PM
Core 2 Duo processors are drop-in replacements for existing Core Duo processors which power the Mac Mini, MacBook, iMac and MacBook Pro.

This article refers to the Mac Mini, not the iMac...


Just taking a guess that it also includes the iMac, well praying :o

AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 24, 2006, 05:54 PM
Just taking a guess that it also includes the iMac, well praying :o

Is Conroe pin-compatible with the iMac, though? I didn't think it was...and I definitely think that Apple should try to get a Conroe chip in that computer (or else release a mid-sized tower).

dashiel
Aug 24, 2006, 05:54 PM
man i'd love for them to include "old" yonah based chips and release a mini for $300-$400. i just want the cheapest intel rig i can buy right now as i'm "mid-cycle".

HecubusPro
Aug 24, 2006, 05:55 PM
I hope this coincides with MBP product refreshes with merom. The excitement is palpable.

HecubusPro
Aug 24, 2006, 05:57 PM
man i'd love for them to include "old" yonah based chips and release a mini for $300-$400. i just want the cheapest intel rig i can buy right now as i'm "mid-cycle".

I thought Yonah and Merom are basically the same cost-wise. That's why everyone thinks including merom in new systems won't raise the price of those systems. I could be wrong.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 24, 2006, 05:58 PM
I thought Yonah and Merom are basically the same cost-wise. That's why everyone thinks including merom in new systems won't raise the price of those systems. I could be wrong.

They will be - at least initially - but Intel will undoubtedly lower prices on the Yonah chips shortly, making a cheaper Yonah-based Mini feasible.

MacSA
Aug 24, 2006, 05:59 PM
Finally some Mac Mini rumours :D ..... lets hope this turns out to be correct. I wonder what specs we'll see in the next update, Surley no more Core Solo? :eek:

The article mentions Core 2 Duo, but I bet they stick with Core Duo. everything else will be the same.

zap2
Aug 24, 2006, 06:02 PM
I'd be shocked if we saw Merom based Minis before Merom based MBP and MB.. maybe a Core Duo upgrade, to hold us over? A price drop and high speed Yonah?

OR wishful thinking from someone who doesn't want his Core Duo Mini to seem old(even though its not)

swingerofbirch
Aug 24, 2006, 06:10 PM
finally a rumor!

after weeks of speculation on the forums, a front page rumor feels fact!

holding my thumbs for a conroe imac! (a swedish expression...i think?)

BeefUK
Aug 24, 2006, 06:13 PM
I hope this means they'll update the Macbooks too, mac mini with Core 2 Duo and not in the macbook would be strange!!!

I can understand the macbook pro being updated on it's own but the mini???

macfan881
Aug 24, 2006, 06:13 PM
i hope theres a new mac mini soon id plan to get one but i plan to put boot camp on and play my matrix online and i pray this version does not have shared graphics cause for my game it is herendus playin the game

QCassidy352
Aug 24, 2006, 06:13 PM
the new intel integrated graphics isn't ready, is it? So these will be merom minis with a GMA 950?

.Andy
Aug 24, 2006, 06:21 PM
Almost shelled out Monday for a top of the liner mini. Glad I didn't get around to it. A 2 Duo in the low end and it will make a fantastic media center. Even better if they include a superdrive (unlikely :(). Have to wait and see....

sunfast
Aug 24, 2006, 06:23 PM
One day I'll buy a mini - they look so sweet. And with a C2D they'll go sweet too!

MrCrowbar
Aug 24, 2006, 06:29 PM
One day I'll buy a mini - they look so sweet. And with a C2D they'll go sweet too!

Maybe dual optical drives like the Mac pro. This is getting standard on Macs obviously.


:p

vanzskater272
Aug 24, 2006, 06:33 PM
I cant wait for the new macbook to come out! I am gonna get it the first day.

glennsan
Aug 24, 2006, 06:38 PM
Maybe dual optical drives like the Mac pro. This is getting standard on Macs obviously.


:p

The only Mac that currently has the dual optical drive is the Mac Pro. I would not think that the iMac and Mini would get a dual as well. But I will admit that stranger things have happened.

Zwhaler
Aug 24, 2006, 06:39 PM
All I can say is thank god...

Killyp
Aug 24, 2006, 06:44 PM
...I will admit that stranger things have happened.

Like this?

http://static.flickr.com/20/73218496_12cd47ab24.jpg

gawd i hope i don't get banned for that!

p0intblank
Aug 24, 2006, 06:45 PM
New Mac minis you say? Bring 'em on! :D I love those little guys.

The Red Wolf
Aug 24, 2006, 06:46 PM
A Memrom Core Duo 2 with a 256 MB Video card to match the Mac Book Pro would rock. Filling in that space of a intermediate tower, just little.

OttawaGuy
Aug 24, 2006, 06:47 PM
minis sure seem to garner a lot of goodwill. :)

jholzner
Aug 24, 2006, 06:51 PM
As a previous poster pointed out, I don't think that conroe is compatible with the current Yonah procs. Only Merom is. Conroe requires a MB redesign.

chuckles:)
Aug 24, 2006, 06:52 PM
Maybe dual optical drives like the Mac pro. This is getting standard on Macs obviously.


:p


Obviously???

the Mac Pro is one thing, but you wont see dual optical drives in an iMac much less a Mini, there's no point 4 the standard consumer market.

paddy
Aug 24, 2006, 07:07 PM
Obviously???

the Mac Pro is one thing, but you wont see dual optical drives in an iMac much less a Mini, there's no point 4 the standard consumer market.

I gather that he was joking because of that smiley at the end of the post.

swingerofbirch
Aug 24, 2006, 07:09 PM
Maybe Apple is planning to take the world by storm and make a TV top Mac Mini loss leader with Blue Ray ( a la PS3!) :)

APPLENEWBIE
Aug 24, 2006, 07:10 PM
am I right in thinking that there is still no way to do extended desktop (two monitors displaying different stuff) on a Mini?

Cybix
Aug 24, 2006, 07:26 PM
nice one... was looking to buy a mini to 'integrate' into my CAR... might wait now, then pick up a core solo intel for cheap! hopefully....

HecubusPro
Aug 24, 2006, 07:36 PM
nice one... was looking to buy a mini to 'integrate' into my CAR... might wait now, then pick up a core solo intel for cheap! hopefully....

http://www.kusnetz.net/prius/
I have a Prius, and when I saw this guy put a mac mini in his Prius, I nearly died with envy. I would love to do this, but I have feeling the cost/trouble would be way out of my realm, and I don't know that I would trust someone to void the warranty on my car.:)
Still it's a cool idea.

karlfranz
Aug 24, 2006, 07:44 PM
I went to buy a Mac Mini (single core) at my local Apple Dealer Wednesday and was told that they didn't have any in stock and that Apple has told them not to place any further orders on the current model. This rumor seems to fall in line with what I experienced.

jdl8422
Aug 24, 2006, 07:53 PM
why is the guy who first posted this rumor buying a bunch of mac minis for a server?

superleccy
Aug 24, 2006, 07:56 PM
What the @*!& is Labour Day? Something to do with Tony Blair?

iJawn108
Aug 24, 2006, 08:11 PM
I really need some new macsso i can start using.


Conroe iMac would be an imediate purchase from me.

andrewm
Aug 24, 2006, 08:12 PM
What the @*!& is Labour Day? Something to do with Tony Blair?

To quote the Dictionary widget, Labor Day is "a public holiday or day of festivities held in honor of working people, in the U.S. and Canada on the first Monday in September, in many other countries on May 1."

Cheers!

GregA
Aug 24, 2006, 08:14 PM
I definitely think that Apple should try to get a Conroe chip in that computer (or else release a mid-sized tower).Yeah... Merom or Conroe for the iMac? And I think maybe they DO need a mid-sized tower... the laptops have MacBook and MacBook Pro, we've got "Mac Pro", all we need is a "Mac"??

A 2 Duo in the low end and it will make a fantastic media center. Even better if they include a superdrive (unlikely :(). Have to wait and see....I'd love to see an Apple media center - really an Apple TiVo, plus iTMS TV downloads. But if all we want is a media center, how important is the CPU? Isn't all the important stuff in the graphics card? I'd rather "cheap" than "able to run photoshop" :) (I really don't know where I sit on "Able to run iMovie on my TV" - I think I'd rather use my Mac)

Anyway, I wonder if Apple has any plans to pull together 3 rumours - iPod Video, iTMS movie store, and Mac Mini Media Centre. It'd make an interesting announcement.

noservice2001
Aug 24, 2006, 08:24 PM
c'mon apple, i promise to buy one when its released...

indiekiduk
Aug 24, 2006, 08:27 PM
Is the intel tiger server edition available now?

aswitcher
Aug 24, 2006, 08:27 PM
New iPods, New iMacs and now New Mac Minis. September could be really busy it seems.

superleccy
Aug 24, 2006, 08:33 PM
To quote the Dictionary widget, Labor Day is "a public holiday or day of festivities held in honor of working people, in the U.S. and Canada on the first Monday in September, in many other countries on May 1."

Cheers!

Hurrah! All that and new Mac Minis too! Labor day is truly the finest of public holidays!

Thank you
SL

Porchland
Aug 24, 2006, 08:43 PM
Movies are on their way to iTunes...

And Front Row is getting refreshed in Leopard...

I'm still in disbelief that the Mac mini will become a set-top box, but all the pieces are starting to come together.

chadgroove
Aug 24, 2006, 08:45 PM
Its nice to see some rumors finally. Aside from obviously a Core Duo 2, what else do you think is likely? Dedicated video?? Bigger/Faster HD? More Ram?? theres only so much space in it. Theres so way I could see another optical drive being put in unless they really moved things around inside the case, or if they wanted to push it as a media hub.

I bought a Mini last may.. Core Duo w/ 1GB of RAM. I love it! However I just took a new job and I'm being given a Macbook or MacbookPro soon as a perk. Time to sell the mini?

I love the thing but if new ones are coming, I might as well sell it off, right?. The bugger was a bit more expensive then I had planned.. about $900 after all was said and done. (I would have gone for the iMac if I didn't have an Cinema Display.. prolly still should have.). As much as I'd love to have 3 Macs its overkill. Right? (*waiting for people to flame me for claiming you can have too many Macs*).. I was hoping at some point I'd open up the mini and put a memron in there, and upgrade it/mod it for fun.

Chad

-------
Powerbook 15'in, 1.67ghz, 2GB Ram, 100 GB HD, high res screen '5,8' (final rev. 11/2005)
MacMini Core Duo, 1GB Ram (5/2006
Apple Cinema Display 20 in. (6/2005)

chadgroove
Aug 24, 2006, 08:57 PM
Movies are on their way to iTunes...

And Front Row is getting refreshed in Leopard...

I'm still in disbelief that the Mac mini will become a set-top box, but all the pieces are starting to come together.

Yeah I'm getting that feeling too. Its a tingly feeling.. but that feeling might be loss of circulation due sitting at a new MacPro at work all day. I'm pretty sure I didn't stand up for a good 6 hours today. Can't be good.

It'd be cool to see some kinda of upgraded/dedicated graphics, a bigger 7200rpm HD, and 2 firewire ports. Maybe some built in or adapter based outputs for dual dvi? Alot depends on the ammount of vram it will have.

I kinda hoped they'd do a significant modification based on or similar to the mini for a media hub. SOmethign not much bigger, but specifically a media hub, that can be a decent Mac, not the other way around.

GregA
Aug 24, 2006, 09:09 PM
I guess we're diverging from the actual rumour - new Mac Mini real soon.

It'd be cool to see some kinda of upgraded/dedicated graphics, a bigger 7200rpm HD, and 2 firewire ports. Maybe some built in or adapter based outputs for dual dvi? Alot depends on the ammount of vram it will have.I look at the existing Mac Mini, and your wish, and see too many $ signs!.

Perhaps our wishes require a range of options. Mac Media HD vs Mac Media. ;-)

ezekielrage_99
Aug 24, 2006, 09:22 PM
If Apple's marketing of the Intel Macs is really in high gear then I would have to say seeing Core 2 Duo in highly likely for September.

During the start of this week I tried to buy a new MacBook or MacBook Pro at Nextbyte computers in Sydney. The Apple guys there told me that all they had left in terms of MacBook and MacBook Pro stock was the floor stock (which I didn't want) they also said that they were expecting a "very big" shipment second to third week of September which is inline with the release of the Core 2 Duo.

Personally I think we will see the Core 2 Duo in Macs as soon as Apple gets there hands on it

ezekielrage_99
Aug 24, 2006, 09:25 PM
why is the guy who first posted this rumor buying a bunch of mac minis for a server?

For the same reason people are buying a Mac Pro as a gaming machine, because you just can do it :cool:

slb
Aug 24, 2006, 09:26 PM
Core 2s will be nice, but if you've already got a Core-based Mac now, I wouldn't rush to sell it. The Meroms coming out are an "initial" version according to Intel, designed to be pin-compatible as an easy replacement for the Yonahs. But next year, Intel will be releasing a new platform called Santa Rosa that the Meroms are really designed for, which will increase the frontside bus to really take advantage of the speed of the Meroms, as well as include new WiFi and the "Robson" flash technology for fast-booting.

I suspect we'll see slight case redesigns for Santa Rosa-based Macs. Santa Rosa will be the real Core 2 platform. This year's Meroms are a stopgap.

GregA
Aug 24, 2006, 09:41 PM
I suspect we'll see slight case redesigns for Santa Rosa-based Macs. Santa Rosa will be the real Core 2 platform. This year's Meroms are a stopgap.Isn't everything a stop gap, in that sense? Just with sweet spots along the way :)

as well as include new WiFi and the "Robson" flash technology for fast-booting.I'll have to look up Robson... I imagine Boot Camp will work quite well if it only takes 10 seconds to switch from an active Mac to an active Windows machine...

CEAbiscuit
Aug 24, 2006, 09:50 PM
Oddly, I hope a new line just send the price of core solos plumetting in the refurb store. Was looking forward to doing the upgrade myself. I know I'm weird...

Watch.. just for giggles, the upgrades are released next week... just in time for labor day shopping.

finchna
Aug 24, 2006, 09:53 PM
any ideas for specs?

bokdol
Aug 24, 2006, 10:02 PM
a bit off topic... does any one know of a comparable pc and cost? the mini seems a bit expensive at 799 for a 1.6 dore duo

iMikeT
Aug 24, 2006, 10:08 PM
I'll believe it when I see it.

SiliconAddict
Aug 24, 2006, 10:15 PM
Shoot. I was actually hoping they would do this at MW in Jan. I need to get my mom a new computer and $600 is too much. I was hoping for a nice post release discount on the mini. :( Right now I'm tapped for funds what with my Prius showing up next month.
I guess I'll have to wait until the NEXT round of updates. dang. :(

Eidorian
Aug 24, 2006, 10:16 PM
Update please! My brother will switch immediately.

jakemikey
Aug 24, 2006, 10:22 PM
Core 2s will be nice, but if you've already got a Core-based Mac now, I wouldn't rush to sell it. The Meroms coming out are an "initial" version according to Intel, designed to be pin-compatible as an easy replacement for the Yonahs.


In addition, Core 2 Duo vs Core Duo performance increase really isn't all that dramatic:

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808

Certainly not worth buying one to upgrade your current Yonah machine, assuming that really would be possible without some sort of EFI update.

While Merom isn't much faster than Yonah, Conroe in an iMac would be superb with the faster clock and bus speeds.

prady16
Aug 24, 2006, 10:27 PM
I am just hoping for a MacBook Pro with Merom.
Hopefully it will make the laptop lighter too.

Any idea if the new laptops will have LightScribe?

viccles
Aug 24, 2006, 10:29 PM
People and their meroms :rolleyes: Anyone would think the messiah is coming :eek:

poppe
Aug 24, 2006, 10:38 PM
a bit off topic... does any one know of a comparable pc and cost? the mini seems a bit expensive at 799 for a 1.6 dore duo

If you check CNET.com they acctually have a few... In about 15 minutes I can try to find some links for you, but if you want to do some quick searching yourself they have a few PC mini-like comps.

bokdol
Aug 24, 2006, 11:15 PM
If you check CNET.com they acctually have a few... In about 15 minutes I can try to find some links for you, but if you want to do some quick searching yourself they have a few PC mini-like comps.


i was looking at dell and could not make one comparable.

thanks i'll check cnet

SiliconAddict
Aug 24, 2006, 11:16 PM
People and their meroms :rolleyes: Anyone would think the messiah is coming :eek:

Imagine Steve Jobs announcing the G6. Its about on par to that. I don't think people realize what Core 2 is going to do for laptops. Faster performance at the same or lower power consumption that is found in the MBP? Yah what's not to like. I just wish my MBP was ZIF socketed. :( Oh well.

poppe
Aug 24, 2006, 11:18 PM
i was looking at dell and could not make one comparable.

thanks i'll check cnet
http://reviews.cnet.com/WinBook_Jiv_Mini/4505-3118_7-31954701.html?tag=viddet

That is some thing like the mac mini. if you watch the video it also mentions another small form factor PC.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4566-3118_7-0.html?filter=1101504_13147765_&tag=dir - Hope this helps!! -- 107 small form factore PC's to choose and compare, including G4 mini and Intel mini

SirOmega
Aug 24, 2006, 11:21 PM
Yeah! I was looking at a bunch of minis for a rendering farm, and given the SSE performance improvement over the yonahs (the Pentium-M series have been weak in FP traditionally) this should be fun.

iAlan
Aug 24, 2006, 11:22 PM
What the @*!& is Labour Day? Something to do with Tony Blair?

No, it is when all babies are born :p

mdntcallr
Aug 24, 2006, 11:48 PM
lets hope they do more than just put in a new CPU.

ie a bigger better macmini

Also, i echo the thoughts of looking forward towards a new MBP (hopefully in new design also)

People also believe the iMac is due for a refresh, even new form.

To be honest, I hope Apple does over all those units and announces some killer new ipods.

basically to launch an entire new line of consumer products for the fall winter season. Would love that!!

twoodcc
Aug 24, 2006, 11:51 PM
bring it on! i sure hope they release something

Lollypop
Aug 25, 2006, 12:29 AM
IF the mini do get refreshed it will be minor speedbump, maybe a faster CPU, maybe bigger HDD, hopefully a better GPU (or a real GPU for that matter) :rolleyes: personally hoping for price decreases, besides a mid range, apple does need a lower costing machine as well! :D

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 01:35 AM
I've been thinking of the Mini as a new dedicated Mac for the new ElGato EyeTV Hybrid Digital-Analog Dual Broadcast USB2 Tuner (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybrid&PHPSESSID=01474b717585d5fb012701e85365e373#) that is just out now for only $149IF the mini do get refreshed it will be minor speedbump, maybe a faster CPU, maybe bigger HDD, hopefully a better GPU (or a real GPU for that matter) :rolleyes: personally hoping for price decreases, besides a mid range, apple does need a lower costing machine as well! :DIt will be 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo for $599 and 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo for $799. Apple rarely lowers prices and there is certainly no reason for them to do so now.

Just add a Dell 24" Display for $704 and you have a native HD TV with Tivo Like Recorder for only about $1452

Plus it's a Mac! :D

pocketrockets
Aug 25, 2006, 01:48 AM
Like the iPod rumors, macrumors is basically pulling this out their ass.

GFLPraxis
Aug 25, 2006, 01:55 AM
In addition, Core 2 Duo vs Core Duo performance increase really isn't all that dramatic:

http://anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2808

Certainly not worth buying one to upgrade your current Yonah machine, assuming that really would be possible without some sort of EFI update.

While Merom isn't much faster than Yonah, Conroe in an iMac would be superb with the faster clock and bus speeds.

Actually, it's quite dramatic. From those benchmarks, Intel's claims are correct; at the SAME CLOCK SPEED, Merom is 20% faster than Yonah, however, Merom comes at a higher clock speed at the same price as Yonah, making the difference even more dramatic. A 2.33 Merom is the price of a 2.16 Yonah.

And it's 64-bit.

Apple rarely lowers prices and there is certainly no reason for them to do so now.

Actually, there is. Apple just bumped the price up by $100 on all their consumer machines when they made the Intel switch (MacBook is $100 more than iBook was, same with Mini).
They might want to return to the original pricing and hit the "under $1000" point for the MacBook and "under $500" for Mac Mini. $500 and $1000 are magic numbers for marketting.

After G
Aug 25, 2006, 02:38 AM
I think the 64 bitness isn't really necessary for a Mac mini. You're not going to shoehorn >4 GB of memory into two slots, unless memory manufacturers are going to change their minds which I don't think will happen just yet.

The 20% increase in performance only applies to media and content creation. I guess that would be good for a HTPC, but Word won't run any faster. (Tt may start faster though).

There is no reason for Yonah owners to upgrade just yet. It's really more of a nice bonus for those people who could wait until now to get a computer.

Apple prices were lower before because the stagnant tech demanded it. For all we know, the $599 could be the maximum on Apple's profit curve.

Cybix
Aug 25, 2006, 03:14 AM
http://www.kusnetz.net/prius/
I have a Prius, and when I saw this guy put a mac mini in his Prius, I nearly died with envy. I would love to do this, but I have feeling the cost/trouble would be way out of my realm, and I don't know that I would trust someone to void the warranty on my car.:)
Still it's a cool idea.

do it.

and there's other sites with loads of detail, and additional hardware you can buy to make life easier. like DC-DC power supplies that will turn on/off/sleep your mac mini as you operate the car's ignition, etc.

touchscreens, remote power buttons, etc, etc... Hell even an old ppc mini would work a treat as a media player in a car :) and think about GPS, etc.. loads of ideas! :)

Lollypop
Aug 25, 2006, 03:15 AM
It will be 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo for $599 and 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo for $799. Apple rarely lowers prices and there is certainly no reason for them to do so now.


I dont think they will go core 2 yet, the mini is entry level, they will rather upgrade the macbook and the imac first before they go for the core 2 in the mini. That sayd, why not keep the solo and lower the price (3 mini models maybe), for many the reason why they arent switching is because of price, and with a lot of people only doing light office/home stuff the solo is good enough.

Plus it's a Mac! :D

Wait.... there is something else out there?? ;) :D

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 03:27 AM
I dont think they will go core 2 yet, the mini is entry level, they will rather upgrade the macbook and the imac first before they go for the core 2 in the mini. That sayd, why not keep the solo and lower the price (3 mini models maybe), for many the reason why they arent switching is because of price, and with a lot of people only doing light office/home stuff the solo is good enough.

Wait.... there is something else out there?? ;) :DThere are no single core Core 2 processors. That's why. 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo is the bottom of the line. Cost Apple same they paid for Solo 1.5GHz Yonah.

Yeah I thought mini would go Core 2 last. But maybe Apple is getting such a huge shipment that they can go Core 2 across the board right away. I don't know. Hope Springs Eternal. :p

TangoCharlie
Aug 25, 2006, 03:36 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

One blog claims (http://www.freemacblog.com/no-to-my-order-again/) that bulk orders for the Mac mini are currently being denied until after Labor Day.
Sheesh! Do we really have to wait 'til May before we can buy any more Mac minis? This smacks of serious mis-management!! :eek:

shanmui1
Aug 25, 2006, 03:55 AM
Sheesh! Do we really have to wait 'til May before we can buy any more Mac minis? This smacks of serious mis-management!! :eek:

i think this is what they r talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_Day_(United_States))

Evangelion
Aug 25, 2006, 04:00 AM
I think the 64 bitness isn't really necessary for a Mac mini.

64bitness brings other benefits for x86, besides increased address-space.

dekator
Aug 25, 2006, 04:42 AM
I do hope they'll ship new MacBooks in September. I've been holding off a purchase for that very reason. Anyway, new portables should ship this year... before the German government raises the VAT... :eek:

EagerDragon
Aug 25, 2006, 04:56 AM
I hope they add a second Ethernet and Firewire to it.

Evangelion
Aug 25, 2006, 04:58 AM
I hope they add a second Ethernet and Firewire to it.

Both are pro-features, so it will be VERY unlikely that we will see them in the Mini.

cemetric
Aug 25, 2006, 04:58 AM
I do hope they'll ship new MacBooks in September. I've been holding off a purchase for that very reason. Anyway, new portables should ship this year... before the German government raises the VAT... :eek:

I hope the same thing, was planning on buying one to.
Is Germany going to raise their taxes ?? To how much 20% 21% Like in Belgium ... Way too high :rolleyes:

.C.

timmillwood
Aug 25, 2006, 05:08 AM
If they bring out a core2duo mac mini it will be faster than my 18month old power mac.

cant see it happening, they might go for a faster core duo in the mac mini and macbook then core 2 duo in iMac and Macbook pro

Veldek
Aug 25, 2006, 05:15 AM
I hope the same thing, was planning on buying one to.
Is Germany going to raise their taxes ?? To how much 20% 21% Like in Belgium ... Way too high :rolleyes:

.C.They are raising from 16% to 19% starting in 2007. :(

TangoCharlie
Aug 25, 2006, 05:27 AM
What the @*!& is Labour Day? Something to do with Tony Blair?
No, that would be New Labour Day. Labour Day is May 1st. :) :confused:

TangoCharlie
Aug 25, 2006, 05:47 AM
Both are pro-features, so it will be VERY unlikely that we will see them in the Mini.
At least another USB port would be nice. Two was pathetic, three's OK, but
four is more realistic number nowadays!

Personally, I'm not convinced that the mini is going to go Core 2 at all... I think we might see the "Solo" going "Duo" and the CPU speeds up'd a bit, that's all. Maybe, just maybe, the top-of-the-line Mac mini might get a Core 2 (Merom)..... :)

Evangelion
Aug 25, 2006, 05:49 AM
At least another USB port would be nice. Two was pathetic, three's OK, but
four is more realistic number nowadays!

Um, the Mini does have four USB-ports, and a FireWire-port.

TangoCharlie
Aug 25, 2006, 06:17 AM
Um, the Mini does have four USB-ports, and a FireWire-port.

OOps, you're quite right!!
http://images.apple.com/uk/macmini/images/indexports20060229.jpg
http://images.apple.com/uk/macmini/images/indexports20060229.jpg

:o

netdog
Aug 25, 2006, 06:38 AM
I don't think we are going to see Core Duos in Apples for much longer, though it is possible that the base Mini will offer a Core Duo, and the better model a Core 2 Duo.

Still, I think it much more likely that with this revision, both Minis will sport Core 2 Duos, probably Meroms to keep them quiet and lower-powered, and will feature the 965 graphics chipset which frankly is a very nice and inexpenisve graphics solution.

What I am really hoping is that there will be an add-on base module in a similar form factor to turn any Mini into a full-blown HD/Audio media centre. Now that could really be exciting. While Tivos and Sky+ boxes are welcome in my home, we are just aching for someone to really rethink the entire home media experience. I'd love to see Apple take a shot at that.

isgoed
Aug 25, 2006, 06:47 AM
I don't think we are going to see Core Duos in Apples for much longer, though it is possible that the base Mini will offer a Core Duo, and the better model a Core 2 Duo.

Still, I think it much more likely that with this revision, both Minis will sport Core 2 Duos, probably Meroms to keep them quiet and lower-powered, and will feature the 965 graphics chipset which frankly is a very nice and inexpenisve graphics solution.

What I am really hoping is that there will be an add-on base module in a similar form factor to turn any Mini into a full-blown HD/Audio media centre. Now that could really be exciting. While Tivos and Sky+ boxes are welcome in my home, we are just aching for someone to really rethink the entire home media experience. I'd love to see Apple take a shot at that.That is almost exactly what I am thinking.

The way I see it there are two kind of people who buy the mac mini:


People who want the cheapest mac possible and are more concerned with esthetics and low noise. They either have simple computer needs, a small budget and like the mini or use the mini for some dedicated purpose (in a car or something)
Headless Mac whiners.


Both will want to have a Core 2 Duo (Conroe so new motherboard required) in it. The cheapo's because of the price (which is less than the current notebook yonah processor) and the whiners because of the performance. Also apple wants this because in the long run they want their entire platform 64-bit.

I see 2 configurations:


$499

similiary as current base mini except for entry level core 2 duo conroe
Upgrades for superdrive/hard disk/ram

$899

A mini for the well educated, performance orientated computer user
Standard config has built in geForce 7300 GT and standard size ram and hard disk (3.5"). (using desktop components instead of lapotop components will bring the price down, but will make the mini about 1 cm higher.
Upgrades for:
mediacenter (HDMI/HDCP-port, tv-in)
250 Gb Hard disk
Up to 2 Gb ram
Discount on combo package (display+keyboard+mini)

No extra connectivity though. If you want that you buy a hub.



The only challenge is if apple can solve the thermal design for such a system. Steve just wants his computer to be silent.

Chris Bangle
Aug 25, 2006, 06:54 AM
Why does intel have to be soooo confusing, A year ago you could either have a G4 or a G5, Nowadays dyo want core solo, core duo, merom, the other one, or that other one, or the other one.( I can ony remeber conroe and merom)... Ok there more powerful but there are too many to decide from.

johnwiseman
Aug 25, 2006, 07:23 AM
Has Dell or any other PC manufacturer started shipping Merom notebooks or Conroe PC's?

reflex
Aug 25, 2006, 07:29 AM
They are raising from 16% to 19% starting in 2007. :(

Guess I'll have to make some purchases before January then :)

isgoed
Aug 25, 2006, 07:30 AM
and will feature the 965 graphics chipset which frankly is a very nice and inexpenisve graphics solution.Oh as a side note. The 965 chipset which features the GMA 3000 or GMA X3000 will indeed have more features (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2837), but preliminary benchmarks (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pconline.com.cn%2Fmarket%2Fsh%2Fshoppingguide%2Fchangshang%2F0608%2F844 892.html&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) show it performing even worse than the GMA 950.

Edit: And you may be quite right on your prediction of the 965 chipset. Due to a design flaw (http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060731A5025.html) in the integrated graphics subsystem (GMA X3000/3000) the availability of the chips has been delayed to mid August, making them just in time for new Mini's in September.

epitaphic
Aug 25, 2006, 07:33 AM
A mini for the well educated, performance orientated computer user
Standard config has built in geForce 7300 GT and standard size ram and hard disk (3.5"). (using desktop components instead of lapotop components will bring the price down, but will make the mini about 1 cm higher.


1cm higher? how? the thing is packed full with no gfx card, so-dimm and 2.5" HD. I think what you're describing is The Cube 2 :p

4np
Aug 25, 2006, 07:42 AM
Like this?

http://static.flickr.com/20/73218496_12cd47ab24.jpg

gawd i hope i don't get banned for that!

LOL!!!! :D

Zargot
Aug 25, 2006, 09:00 AM
Has Dell or any other PC manufacturer started shipping Merom notebooks or Conroe PC's?

I haven't seen any Merom notebooks but the Conroe desktops have been shipping for a couple of weeks now.

DrFrankTM
Aug 25, 2006, 09:05 AM
I'd be shocked if we saw Merom based Minis before Merom based MBP and MB.. maybe a Core Duo upgrade, to hold us over? A price drop and high speed Yonah?

OR wishful thinking from someone who doesn't want his Core Duo Mini to seem old(even though its not)

Merom would be a good jump up for the Mini. I think it'd be cool if they offer it (even though I've had my Core Duo for just a couple of months :P), but I agree with you that we might simply see faster Yonah chips in the new Minis. One way or the other though, I'm happy the processor isn't soldered. When Merom drops in price, I'll grab the fastest thing I can put in my Mini. Chances are it will make it faster than whatever's the ultimate you can buy from Apple at that time. It's a fun time to be a Mini owner...

Greebazoid
Aug 25, 2006, 09:05 AM
I havent yet found a situation where the 1.66 Yonah in my mini is the problem. granted, I dont use photoshop and I have the full whack of 2GB RAM - my beef with the mini is when I boot into 'doze and wanna play games - that GMA950 just cant cut the mustard.

So what would make me rush out and buy a new mini (and put this one under the TV) would be a faster graphics processor.

Cant see that happening any time soon tho.

and whats with all the Prius cars? sheeeeshh.

;-)

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 09:11 AM
Merom thread, etc...

http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom

zelet
Aug 25, 2006, 09:20 AM
my beef with the mini is when I boot into 'doze and wanna play games - that GMA950 just cant cut the mustard.

So what would make me rush out and buy a new mini (and put this one under the TV) would be a faster graphics processor.

Cant see that happening any time soon tho.


I agree to that. I got the Mini thinking the GPU couldn't be that bad. I was really wrong. If they up the GPU I'll buy another one and be happy. If not - I'll live with the underpowered video of the mini until Apple finally releases a headless iMac (or something equivalent).

DrFrankTM
Aug 25, 2006, 09:23 AM
am I right in thinking that there is still no way to do extended desktop (two monitors displaying different stuff) on a Mini?

Hmmm... To cook an extended desktop on a Mini (sort of), you need:

1-) A Mac Mini
2-) An old Mac with a screen - mine is an old iBook G3
3-) A router
4-) Synergy
5-) Some kind of script - Automator does the job - to turn Synergy into a start-up item on both computers

Ok, it obviously doesn't give you two screens on your Mini, but you can cut and paste between screens, and use only one keyboard and mouse to control both, which is pretty sweet. Personally, I use my Mini for any kind of heavy workloads and the iBook for the small stuff. The lack of extended desktop was almost a show-stopper for me but, in the end, Synergy provides me with all the screen space I need. If you really need more than that though, maybe the Mini isn't the right machine.

EDIT: For example, I run Skype on my iBook. There is no difference whatsoever to me whether it is on my iBook or my Mini. You can use the secondary screen for a bunch of apps like those that do not really need to run on your Mini.

aswitcher
Aug 25, 2006, 09:25 AM
There are no single core Core 2 processors. That's why. 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo is the bottom of the line. Cost Apple same they paid for Solo 1.5GHz Yonah.

Yeah I thought mini would go Core 2 last. But maybe Apple is getting such a huge shipment that they can go Core 2 across the board right away. I don't know. Hope Springs Eternal. :p

Arent Core 2s being reported in shortage by intel suppliers?

netdog
Aug 25, 2006, 09:34 AM
Arent Core 2s being reported in shortage by intel suppliers?

Yeah, coz Apple bought 'em all up to fill them super-secret shipping containers arriving on Sept. 5 full of bitchin' Core 2 iMacs, Minis, MBPs and MBs.

Akula971
Aug 25, 2006, 09:44 AM
I really do wish to see a mini or something similar with more power. At the moment I have a G4 mini (7200rpm disk, 1GB ram and overclocked to 1.58GHz), but I still need a little more power. What is my option at the moment, an Intel mini? I don't think I'd see much of a real difference, so it has to be a Mac Pro? Too much dosh. There has to be something in between for those that have a screen and keyboard, etc

Night Phoenix
Aug 25, 2006, 09:50 AM
Hey guys,

I will soon be getting an older Pentium 3 for free from my dad who is remodeling his office, and I was thinking of installing linux on it and turning it into a dvr / media box for my tv. Have any of you done this with a mac mini? Any opinions on this?

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 09:59 AM
If they bring out a core2duo mac mini it will be faster than my 18month old power mac.Duh. Welcome to the completed transition. I need to run a few tests to confirm this once they are out, but I think any Core 2 Mac may be faster than the Dual 2GHz G5 PowerMac from October of 2005.cant see it happening, they might go for a faster core duo in the mac mini and macbook then core 2 duo in iMac and Macbook proThen you are in denial. Core Duo is already history. And Apple doesn't like to be selling historical artifacts any longer than they must - especially when the new state-of-the-art processors don't cost them any more. :rolleyes:I don't think we are going to see Core Duos in Apples for much longer, though it is possible that the base Mini will offer a Core Duo, and the better model a Core 2 Duo.

Still, I think it much more likely that with this revision, both Minis will sport Core 2 Duos, probably Meroms to keep them quiet and lower-powered, and will feature the 965 graphics chipset which frankly is a very nice and inexpenisve graphics solution.

What I am really hoping is that there will be an add-on base module in a similar form factor to turn any Mini into a full-blown HD/Audio media centre. Now that could really be exciting. While Tivos and Sky+ boxes are welcome in my home, we are just aching for someone to really rethink the entire home media experience. I'd love to see Apple take a shot at that.I think the addition of the new EyeTV hybrid USB2 Digital-Analog Broadcast Tuner (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybridna) may be a significant part of the ticket you are looking for with a new 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo mini. Ships early September for only $150. They have combined two large bulky Firewire tuners from older products they previously sold only separately for a combined price of $500 into a tiny not-much-bigger-than-a-flash-ram-stick USB2 product that will sell for only $150. It's a miracle!

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 10:05 AM
I really do wish to see a mini or something similar with more power. At the moment I have a G4 mini (7200rpm disk, 1GB ram and overclocked to 1.58GHz), but I still need a little more power. What is my option at the moment, an Intel mini? I don't think I'd see much of a real difference, so it has to be a Mac Pro? Too much dosh. There has to be something in between for those that have a screen and keyboard, etcNo. Now is not the time to buy it yet. Wait for the Core 2 Duo mini and you will see a radical increase in performance. Current Core Duo too. But as long as the Core 2 Duo models are imminent, no point in not waiting. Why do you think you won't see much real difference? Are you kidding? It's night and day. :rolleyes:

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 10:14 AM
I havent yet found a situation where the 1.66 Yonah in my mini is the problem. granted, I dont use photoshop and I have the full whack of 2GB RAM - my beef with the mini is when I boot into 'doze and wanna play games - that GMA950 just can't cut the mustard.

So what would make me rush out and buy a new mini (and put this one under the TV) would be a faster graphics processor.

Cant see that happening any time soon tho.I can.I agree to that. I got the Mini thinking the GPU couldn't be that bad. I was really wrong. If they up the GPU I'll buy another one and be happy. If not - I'll live with the underpowered video of the mini until Apple finally releases a headless iMac (or something equivalent).Only thing holding back better GPU in mini and MacBooks is Intel. Apple needs to stick with IG for cost reasons. Just wating for Intel to start shipping better GPU so they can improve that ASAP. I'm with you guys. Waiting for that to improve as well. But may happen with this refresh. Don't know the IG roadmap so well. Read here the 965 set is delayed until early 2007.

Can anyone here confirm where we're at and going how soon on the Intel Integrated GPU front?Oh as a side note. The 965 chipset which features the GMA 3000 or GMA X3000 will indeed have more features (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2837), but preliminary benchmarks (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pconline.com.cn%2Fmarket%2Fsh%2Fshoppingguide%2Fchangshang%2F0608%2F844 892.html&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) show it performing even worse than the GMA 950.

Edit: And you may be quite right on your prediction of the 965 chipset. Due to a design flaw (http://digitimes.com/mobos/a20060731A5025.html) in the integrated graphics subsystem (GMA X3000/3000) the availability of the chips has been delayed to mid August, making them just in time for new Mini's in September.Fantastic.

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 10:26 AM
I can.Only thing holding back better GPU in mini and MacBooks is Intel. Apple needs to stick with IG for cost reasons. Just wating for Intel to start shipping better GPU so they can improve that ASAP. I'm with you guys. Waiting for that to improve as well. But may happen with this refresh. Don't know the IG roadmap so well. Read here the 965 set is delayed until early 2007.

Can anyone here confirm where we're at and going how soon on the Intel Integrated GPU front?We're still going with the GMA950 on the mobile front. The X3000 (965) has made its debut on the desktop platform with Conroe. Still, driver issues and low chipset supply keep it from the mass market. We're not going to see a MOBILE X3000 (965) until Santa Rosa next year. Hopefully Apple can make some good drivers for OS X and the X3000. I don't know anything beyond the 965 in the integrated graphics front.

Chris Bangle
Aug 25, 2006, 10:33 AM
Why would updated mac minis be such a high security product. Its nothing revolutionary so why would apple want so much security on the shipping of them? Im hoping for something BIG

frankie
Aug 25, 2006, 10:41 AM
I thought Yonah and Merom are basically the same cost-wise. That's why everyone thinks including merom in new systems won't raise the price of those systems.

Exactly so. For everyone's reference, here's a current Intel price chart (per CPU in lots of 1000): http://spamreaper.org/frankie/macintel.html

It makes certain options quite clear. For example:

mini 1: replace Solo 1.50 with "OEM" Yonah 1.60 = $60 less.
mini 2: replace Yonah 1.66 with Merom 1.66 = same price.
iMac 1: replace Yonah 1.83 with Conroe 1.86 = $58 less.
iMac 2: replace Yonah 2.00 with Conroe 2.13 = $70 less.
all MacBooks: replace Yonah with Merom = same price.


Caveat: Merom is drop-in compatible with Yonah, but upgrading to Conroe would require a different mobo... which is also equal or lower in price to Yonah mobos.

Basically, if Apple doesn't update the entire product line ASAP, they're screwing over customers for no gain to themselves. Can you say "shareholder lawsuit"? I certainly hope someone is grumbling that phrase in Steve's vicinity.

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 10:43 AM
Exactly so. For everyone's reference, here's a current Intel price chart (per CPU in lots of 1000): http://spamreaper.org/frankie/macintel.html

It makes certain options quite clear. For example:

mini 1: replace Solo 1.50 with "OEM" Yonah 1.60 = $60 less.
mini 2: replace Yonah 1.66 with Merom 1.66 = same price.
iMac 1: replace Yonah 1.83 with Conroe 1.86 = $58 less.
iMac 2: replace Yonah 2.00 with Conroe 2.13 = $70 less.
all MacBooks: replace Yonah with Merom = same price.


Caveat: Merom is drop-in compatible with Yonah, but upgrading to Conroe would require a different mobo... which is also equal or lower in price to Yonah mobos.

Basically, if Apple doesn't update the entire product line ASAP, they're screwing over customers for no gain to themselves. Can you say "shareholder lawsuit"? I certainly hope someone is grumbling that phrase in Steve's vicinity.THANK YOU!

I always wanted a quick source for Intel chip prices and other characteristics.

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 10:55 AM
Exactly so. For everyone's reference, here's a current Intel price chart (per CPU in lots of 1000): http://spamreaper.org/frankie/macintel.html

It makes certain options quite clear. For example:

mini 1: replace Solo 1.50 with "OEM" Yonah 1.60 = $60 less.
mini 2: replace Yonah 1.66 with Merom 1.66 = same price.
iMac 1: replace Yonah 1.83 with Conroe 1.86 = $58 less.
iMac 2: replace Yonah 2.00 with Conroe 2.13 = $70 less.
all MacBooks: replace Yonah with Merom = same price.


Caveat: Merom is drop-in compatible with Yonah, but upgrading to Conroe would require a different mobo... which is also equal or lower in price to Yonah mobos.

Basically, if Apple doesn't update the entire product line ASAP, they're screwing over customers for no gain to themselves. Can you say "shareholder lawsuit"? I certainly hope someone is grumbling that phrase in Steve's vicinity.1. Apple doesn't pay those prices.
2. No way is Apple going to keep shipping any Yonah processors.
3. Any speed Solo Yonah will be history with this refresh.
4. It's gonna be 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo T5500 and 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo T5600 minis.
5. I expect the iMac to sport faster Conroes in a completely new designed enclosure that can deal with the additional heat a Conroe setup will generate.
6. I also think there's a chance for a 23" iMac 1920 x 1200 all-in-one model. That is, after all, the proper resolution to display native HDTV with your new $150 EyeTV hybrid analog-digital USB2 tuner (http://www.elgato.com/index.php?file=products_eyetvhybridna).
7. iMacs will get:

Core 2 Duo E6700 - 2.67 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) and
Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.40 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB)

They only have TWO Cores. You think Apple isn't going to let iMac owners have half as many cores as the Mac Pro owners at comparable speeds and L2 cache? :rolleyes:

I know that sounds a little shrill compared to where we were a year ago. But times have radically changed and they are going to radically change even moreso next year. - especially once Leopard ships. :)

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 11:07 AM
1. Apple doesn't pay those prices.
2. No way is Apple going to keep shipping any Yonah processors.
3. Any speed Solo Yonah will be history with this refresh.
4. It's gonna be 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo T5500 and 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo T5600 minis.
5. I expect the iMac to sport faster Conroes in a completely new designed enclosure that can deal with the additional heat a Conroe setup will generate.
6. I also think there's a chance for a 23" iMac 1920 x 1200 all-in-one model. That is, after all, the proper resolution to display native HDTV.
7. iMacs will get:

Core 2 Duo E6700 - 2.67 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) and
Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.40 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB)

They only have TWO Cores. You think Apple isn't going to let iMac owners have half as many cores as the Mac Pro owners at comparable speeds and L2 cache?1. Of course Apple isn't going to pay the per/1000 prices. They're getting better deals then that.

2. After Leopard's "64-bit" announcement I have to agree.

3. Even a "slow" Duo is worth much more then any Solo.

5. Hopefully they'll put Conroe in. The 965 chipset is hard to get. The current enclosure can handle a G5. I don't see the need for a redesign needed for Conroe. At worst it'll need a slight bump in the power supply wattage.

6. Possible, the price on the 20" model is rather low. (For education anyways) Just $1450 for me after selling my free iPod.

frankie
Aug 25, 2006, 11:09 AM
1. Apple doesn't pay those prices.
2. No way is Apple going to keep shipping any Yonah processors.
3. Any speed Solo Yonah will be history with this refresh.
4. It's gonna be 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo T5500 and 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo T5600 minis.
5. I expect the iMac to sport faster Conroes in a completely new designed enclosure that can deal with the additional heat a Conroe setup will generate.


Intel claims they stopped giving discounts to favored customers. But even if, the ratios would be the same.
okay.
OEM T2050 is a Duo. It's cheap because it's 533 bus vs 667.
If you say so.
Maybe, maybe not. Conroe is cooler than G5, which used the same case.

50548
Aug 25, 2006, 11:23 AM
BestBuy says that MacMinis AND iMacs are sold out...will we see faster iMacs soon as well???

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 11:25 AM
Conroe is cooler than G5, which used the same case.Not because they need to now, but because Apple changes enclosures every few years to keep the line looking new and improved like it is on the inside. Core 2 calls for such a design refresh to further distinguish the new from the old and to have thermal envelope specs capable of supporting Kentsfield 4 cores inside next year. ;)

milo
Aug 25, 2006, 11:29 AM
Interesting...but no info about what the new models may be.

Faster yonah (if you think intel won't drop yonah prices you're nuts)? Merom? Conroe?

I'd love to see a price drop along with an update, maybe add a third model and drop the price on the basic model. I wouldn't get my hopes up for a graphics card, or any radical redesign at this point. Best shot is *better* integrated graphics, not dedicated.

The current mini configs are pretty overpriced compared to similar PC's.

I agree to that. I got the Mini thinking the GPU couldn't be that bad. I was really wrong.

Shouldn't have bought the mini if you're much of a gamer.

puuukeey
Aug 25, 2006, 11:34 AM
just a thought. I'd like to see at least one mini stay as cheap as possible. cheap minis are condusive to the "non desktop" or "inivisible" situations we all love them for.


creative things like
Home automation,
Home theater
automotive fun
art installations
internet radio.
cash registers
security systems
advertising kiosks(shoot me)
rhumba?

I always thought they should lay a tiny screen on them for applications like these where it's purpose doesn't need to infinitely pliable.

jakemikey
Aug 25, 2006, 11:51 AM
just a thought. I'd like to see at least one mini stay as cheap as possible. cheap minis are condusive to the "non desktop" or "inivisible" situations we all love them for.


creative things like
Home automation,
Home theater
automotive fun
art installations
internet radio.
cash registers
security systems
advertising kiosks(shoot me)
rhumba?


Every single one of those (except perhaps home theater) would be much better suited with a cheaper VIA mini-ITX system running Linux. The only reason you should ever choose Mac OS X over Linux is in *visible* setups, not *invisible* setups.

HecubusPro
Aug 25, 2006, 11:52 AM
and whats with all the Prius cars? sheeeeshh.

;-)

I don't know. It's not like I'm a granola-eating-backpacking-through-the-Appalachians hippie. I don't want to save the world. I just want to save gas. :)
And for some reason, Prius' and Mac Mini's go so darned well together.

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 11:54 AM
Every single one of those (except perhaps home theater) would be much better suited with a cheaper VIA mini-ITX system running Linux. The only reason you should ever choose Mac OS X over Linux is in *visible* setups, not *invisible* setups.Sadly, I've tried to make cheaper VIA based mini-ITX systems. I usually end up getting a better buy from a Mac Mini.

shawnce
Aug 25, 2006, 11:55 AM
Conroe is cooler than G5, which used the same case.

Folks need to be careful when making G5 to Conroe/etc. comparisons....

The PPC 970FX (single core G5 which was in the iMac G5) has a TDP below that of a Conroe.

The Conroe and Woodcrest have a TDP well below the PPC 970MP (dual core G5) which was used in the later generation PowerMac G5 systems.

jakemikey
Aug 25, 2006, 11:59 AM
Sadly, I've tried to make cheaper VIA based mini-ITX systems. I usually end up getting a better buy from a Mac Mini.

Not if you're going for an embedded system that doesn't need a heavy duty CPU and graphics. I built a fanless home server/internet filter/firewall box for less than $200 (and this is in the mini form factor - mini-ITX). A mini would be overkill for that and almost all of the other above listed embedded applications. Get the right tool for the right job is all I'm saying. I would never use a VIA system for a desktop, but for almost every embedded application they're fantastic.

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 12:03 PM
Not if you're going for an embedded system that doesn't need a heavy duty CPU and graphics. I built a fanless home server/internet filter/firewall box for less than $200 (and this is in the mini form factor - mini-ITX). A mini would be overkill for that and almost all of the other above listed embedded applications. Get the right tool for the right job is all I'm saying. I would never use a VIA system for a desktop, but for almost every embedded application they're fantastic.With the G4 Mini's hitting $300-400 I see a better buy there. Then again I do love Mini-ITX and playing with Linux. (Free OS and good support for mini server applications.) There's an application for both. I just see the Mac mini being a"mini mac" for only a little bit more.

Folks need to be careful when making G5 to Conroe/etc. comparisons....

The PPC 970FX (single core G5 which was in the iMac G5) has a TDP below that of a Conroe.

The Conroe and Woodcrest have a TDP well below the PPC 970MP (dual core G5) which was used in the later generation PowerMac G5 systems.For some odd reason even though the 970FX has a lower TDP the Conroe systems are surprisingly cool. I've seen 50° C from Conroe under full load. That's a lot lower then the 75° C on my iMac G5.

netdog
Aug 25, 2006, 12:04 PM
Why would updated mac minis be such a high security product. Its nothing revolutionary so why would apple want so much security on the shipping of them? Im hoping for something BIG

Now you're talking. I want my iFon

shawnce
Aug 25, 2006, 12:07 PM
I've seen 50° C from Conroe under full load. That's a lot lower then the 75° C on my iMac G5. CPU temp is a result of how efficient the heat dissipation is relative to the heat generated by the CPU... so without knowing how the heat dissipation capabilities varied between the two systems you cannot make much of a judgement on the CPU itself. (you would need the same case, same cooling system, same work load, etc. to make such a comparison)

The first generation iMac G5 had worse heat dissipating capabilities then later revisions of the iMac G5.

Should also note that the temp sensors are also potentially measuring at different points along the thermal chain (not looked into that myself).

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 12:09 PM
CPU temp is a result of how efficient the heat dissipation is relative to the heat generated by the CPU... so without knowing how the heat dissipation capabilities varied between the two systems you cannot make much of a judgement on the CPU itself.

The first generation iMac G5 had worse heat dissipating capabilities then later revisions of the iMac G5.Oh I can be sure that a Conroe placed in an iMac will run into the volume constraints and effective heat dissipation of the heat sink when compared to a full blown BTX tower.

The original G5 and the Rev. B (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/IMacG5guts.png) stuck with the wonderful heat channel. The 17" models ran a lot hotter then the 20" due to the internal design and volume.

The Rev. C (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/imac_isight_internals/imac_g5_isight_inside.html) and Intel use similar internal layouts with the CPU and power supply toward the top of the machine.

Here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/inju/88928219/) is a good comparison.

Josias
Aug 25, 2006, 12:11 PM
I remember the rumors of iPod docks in the Mini before the last Mini release (February 28th). I though they were pretty ridicolous.:p

Anway's, a chance of X3000 now? That would rock!;)

Eidorian
Aug 25, 2006, 12:21 PM
I remember the rumors of iPod docks in the Mini before the last Mini release (February 28th). I though they were pretty ridicolous.:p

Anway's, a chance of X3000 now? That would rock!;)http://www.math.purdue.edu/~abarreno/laptop_chipsets_intel_8_2006.png

Find me a mobile 965.

Linito
Aug 25, 2006, 01:02 PM
Hope the new mac minis have a new face... since the change to intel it's been all pretty much the same, the macbook pro and the mac pro are almost identical to the old ones:(

Come on apple get CREATIVE:p

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 01:23 PM
Hope the new mac minis have a new face... since the change to intel it's been all pretty much the same, the macbook pro and the mac pro are almost identical to the old ones:(

Come on apple get CREATIVE:pThere is nothing "identical" between G5 PowerMacs and the Mac Pro. MPs have two optical drawers and additional USB2 and FW800 ports on the front and inside they are radically different. As for the perforated aluminum? I love it and hope they keep it that way forever. It has an important functionality to maximize air intake and provide some natural hot air disipation as well.

I agree the pro laptops need a black anodized aluminum makeover with an easy access HD bay like on the MacBook. :)

reflex
Aug 25, 2006, 01:51 PM
And Apple doesn't like to be selling historical artifacts any longer than they must

So that's why they stuck with G3s in iBooks for so long? :p

isgoed
Aug 25, 2006, 03:02 PM
Ah.... this speculation really brings back the memories of PowerPC rumors. Like when everyone was speculating if we see 3 Ghz G5's. I thought the feeling would be gone now we have intel (and its roadmaps), but debating on wether we might see a Core 2 Duo line-up soon brings the excitement right back. Hope this time the rumors do come true. This eventhough I am completely not in the market for a new Mac (neither was I for a 3 Ghz PowerMac :p)

Exactly so. For everyone's reference, here's a current Intel price chart (per CPU in lots of 1000): http://spamreaper.org/frankie/macintel.html

It makes certain options quite clear. For example:

mini 1: replace Solo 1.50 with "OEM" Yonah 1.60 = $60 less.
mini 2: replace Yonah 1.66 with Merom 1.66 = same price.
iMac 1: replace Yonah 1.83 with Conroe 1.86 = $58 less.
iMac 2: replace Yonah 2.00 with Conroe 2.13 = $70 less.
all MacBooks: replace Yonah with Merom = same price.


Caveat: Merom is drop-in compatible with Yonah, but upgrading to Conroe would require a different mobo... which is also equal or lower in price to Yonah mobos.

Basically, if Apple doesn't update the entire product line ASAP, they're screwing over customers for no gain to themselves. Can you say "shareholder lawsuit"? I certainly hope someone is grumbling that phrase in Steve's vicinity.
You got some serious ideas (http://spamreaper.org/frankie/wanted.html) frankie :cool: :)
I always thought they should lay a tiny screen on them for applications like these where it's purpose doesn't need to infinitely pliable.Yeah I also had that idea. Given the number of people that use the mini as server or multimedia center that will be nice (Microsoft is already planning for giving mini-screen support in vista, so it is a good idea). I actually though about this to turn the mini into a laptop. Thus some kind of battery+Screen+keyboard add-on. This would truly emphasize the phrase BYOMKM (Bring your own Monitor Keyboard and mouse). But then again; a laptop would be much easier.
1cm higher? how? the thing is packed full with no gfx card, so-dimm and 2.5" HD. I think what you're describing is The Cube 2Yeah you are quite right. It is predominantly the size of 3.5" hard disk that will hardly even fit in the total casing.


3.5" Hard disks are (4.00 x 5.75 x 1.00) (http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op/formIn35.html) inch.
2.5" Hard disks are (2.75 x 3.94 x 0.67) (http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op/formIn25.html) inch.


The original G4 mini had a dedicated graphics chip and full size SDRAM so that is not the problem. Maybe the Mini should get an external SATA port on the bottom. External SATA ports are becoming available for PC's so it might be an idea for the mini. This way makers of external hard disks like LaCie can offer a real high performance solution. The hard disk is now a serious bottleneck in the mini's performance as can be seen here (g4 mini benchmark) (http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/mini/) and a standard 3.5" disk would solve this. Particularly when loading applications and interface responsiveness (especially if you have not that much ram as how most people configure their mini which, to make things worse, also uses the ram as video memory).

Or just wait until Robson flash-harddisks will be included in Macs. This will make the performance better and eliminate the need for large and high data capacity hard disks. Since not many users will be able to fill a 250 GB harddisk, although they might want the performance of a 250 GB harddisk.

AidenShaw
Aug 25, 2006, 03:18 PM
What I am really hoping is that there will be an add-on base module in a similar form factor to turn any Mini into a full-blown HD/Audio media centre.
A second white plastic box with some wires connected to a MiniMac for the media centre? That would be tacky...

Instead, I'd expect The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box to be in a single black cabinet the size and shape of a DVD-player or other media component.

The would leave room for two 3.5" drives (1500 GB today), the TV tuner and compressors, and room for good cooling with some very quiet fans.

Would you expect anything less than great styling for the Apple media centre ?

pigwin32
Aug 25, 2006, 03:27 PM
I guess we're diverging from the actual rumour - new Mac Mini real soon.

I look at the existing Mac Mini, and your wish, and see too many $ signs!.

Perhaps our wishes require a range of options. Mac Media HD vs Mac Media. ;-)
I would be happy with FW800 although it would be hard to justify an immediate upgrade on that basis. It's annoying to have a FW800 raid device that can only operate at half speed. Of course esata (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esata) would be nice but then I'd also have to upgrade my drive.

50548
Aug 25, 2006, 04:02 PM
A second white plastic box with some wires connected to a MiniMac for the media centre? That would be tacky...

Instead, I'd expect The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box to be in a single black cabinet the size and shape of a DVD-player or other media component.

The would leave room for two 3.5" drives (1500 GB today), the TV tuner and compressors, and room for good cooling with some very quiet fans.

Would you expect anything less than great styling for the Apple media centre ?

And the mini tower Mac rumors live on...Mini Tower Mac = PowerBook G5...:rolleyes:

Bengt77
Aug 25, 2006, 04:22 PM
Conroe iMac would be an imediate purchase from me.
Bingo! Bring on the iMac Ultra with Conroe, 23" display and a powerful GPU. Now that would be an immediate purchase for me.

Bengt77
Aug 25, 2006, 04:56 PM
7. iMacs will get:

Core 2 Duo E6700 - 2.67 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB) and
Core 2 Duo E6600 - 2.40 GHz (4 MiB L2, 1066 MHz FSB)
Man, that sounds good! I'll take one. To take away, please. Djeez, I am so ready for a new iMac! :o

Multimedia
Aug 25, 2006, 05:37 PM
Bingo! Bring on the iMac Ultra with Conroe, 23" display and a powerful GPU. Now that would be an immediate purchase for me.Span that puppy with a second 23" Apple or 24" Dell Display and you have a fairly ultimate desktop. Better yet have Apple make the DVI Port Dual so you can span to a 30" Screen. Now that would be truly the ultimate iMac - Until they offer a 30" iMac. :p

AidenShaw
Aug 25, 2006, 11:37 PM
Bingo! Bring on the iMac Ultra with Conroe, 23" display and a powerful GPU. Now that would be an immediate purchase for me.
...also known as The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box!

The problem with the all-in-one form factor of the iMacIntel is that when the LCD dies - you have a good computer that you can't use. And if the computer dies - you have a good screen that you can't use.

Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use.

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill.... When will The Steve see the light?

twoodcc
Aug 26, 2006, 12:04 AM
...also known as The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box!

The problem with the all-in-one form factor of the iMacIntel is that when the LCD dies - you have a good computer that you can't use. And if the computer dies - you have a good screen that you can't use.

Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use.

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill.... When will The Steve see the light?

i agree.....when will they start listening to you?

Macinposh
Aug 26, 2006, 03:54 AM
Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill....



Aiden,or others.

What do you think about the rumours that a single socket Conroe thanks to it´s superior memory handling effiency (~70%?) compared to Xeons DB-Dimm´s lousy (~25?) might crush a dual socket Xeon in memory intesive tasks, like photoshop.

Have you heard seen any data on that one,exept the specuatlion on Anandtech?
Any idea if the upcoming products (CS3 for example) might find a way to utilize the FB-Dims more efficiently, or is the problems so prevalent,that it cant be overcome with anything?

Because that might be the deathblow to the Pizza-Mac.


Apple definately wouldn want a cheaper/weaker product to equal or crush it´s workstations in any area. Let alone on one that is considered it is pride,DTP.


Anyone?

50548
Aug 26, 2006, 05:14 AM
...also known as The New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Pizza-Box!

The problem with the all-in-one form factor of the iMacIntel is that when the LCD dies - you have a good computer that you can't use. And if the computer dies - you have a good screen that you can't use.

Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use.

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

A Conroe (64-bit, single-socket, dual-core) system would fit the bill.... When will The Steve see the light?

A better question is: when does the LCD OR the computer die, especially in the case of Macs? I would say never...

Manic Mouse
Aug 26, 2006, 05:57 AM
Oh I can be sure that a Conroe placed in an iMac will run into the volume constraints and effective heat dissipation of the heat sink when compared to a full blown BTX tower.

The original G5 and the Rev. B (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9d/IMacG5guts.png) stuck with the wonderful heat channel. The 17" models ran a lot hotter then the 20" due to the internal design and volume.

The Rev. C (http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/imac_isight_internals/imac_g5_isight_inside.html) and Intel use similar internal layouts with the CPU and power supply toward the top of the machine.

Here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/inju/88928219/) is a good comparison.

Watch the WWDC keynote and note that the xserves now use Woodcrest which has a higher TDP than Conroe (95W compared to 65W). Also note what they say about Woodcrest having a better thermal environment that the G5's they were using before which were the same G5's (non-dual core) that the iMac used I believe. Conroe has better thermal characteristics than G5's, the Mac Pro and xserve prove that.

iMac will get Conroe. 2.4Ghz and 2.66Ghz. Conroe is the best value for performance processor that Intel are offering, so they need to use it SOMEWHERE in their lineup.

AidenShaw
Aug 26, 2006, 07:41 AM
A better question is: when does the LCD OR the computer die, especially in the case of Macs? I would say never...
Mr. Lawyer, there are several people on this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=227917) who would beg to differ with your opinion about the immortality of Apples....

And, by the way, I did say "Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use." - so I clearly wasn't suggesting that LCD or system failures were that common.

50548
Aug 26, 2006, 08:02 AM
Mr. Lawyer, there are several people on this thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=227917) who would beg to differ with you....

Well, that thread is about purported Apple support problems...Olsen's Asymmetry teaches us that small groups with special interests tend to scream louder...

I had a whining problem with my first Rev. A iMac G5 and Apple gave me a new one after verifying my case...Apple is the best in support for several years in a row...so we don't have to worry, we still have the best service in the industry...

But to say that LCD and computers "die"? Nonsense for Apple computers, really...I've never seen such cases, and I am sure my old iBook G3 is a 1000x more reliable than a brand-spanking new Dull.

We demand so much more than other users that even 2 dead pixels on a screen are cause for alarm...

AidenShaw
Aug 26, 2006, 09:26 AM
What do you think about the rumours that a single socket Conroe thanks to it´s superior memory handling effiency (~70%?) compared to Xeons DB-Dimm´s lousy (~25?) might crush a dual socket Xeon in memory intesive tasks, like photoshop.

Have you heard seen any data on that one,exept the specuatlion on Anandtech?
It's nonsense, frankly.

It is speculation (or FUD) based on a single facet of the system design, without considering all of the factors that affect real application performance. (Remember when Apple was whining about the horrible "pipeline bubble" problem with the Pentium - meanwhile Pentiums and Xeons were benchmarking just fine against the Apples?)

Dell has submitted SPEC results for Woodcrest and Conroe systems, and they're virtually the same - with a very slight advantage to Conroe.

System CPU GHz Cores Sockets CINT CFP CINTRate CFPRate
PowerEdge 1950 Xeon 5110 1.60 4 2 1772 1719 72.0 60.9
PowerEdge 1950 Xeon 5120 1.86 4 2 1974 1979 82.1 65.0
PowerEdge 1950 Xeon 5130 2.00 4 2 2154 2130 88.6 71.2
PowerEdge 1950 Xeon 5140 2.33 4 2 2394 2451 101.0 75.9
PowerEdge 1950 Xeon 5150 2.66 4 2 2615 2761 111.0 79.8
PowerEdge 1950 Xeon 5160 3.00 4 2 2818 3061 120.0* 83.4

PrecWrkstn 390 Core 2 Duo E6300 1.86 2 1 1978 1939 39.5 35.0
PrecWrkstn 390 Core 2 Duo E6400 2.13 2 1 2168 2187 44.0 37.1
PrecWrkstn 390 Core 2 Duo E6600 2.40 2 1 2497 2588 53.7 43.9
PrecWrkstn 390 Core 2 Duo E6700 2.66 2 1 2673 2844 58.7 45.6
PrecWrkstn 390 Core 2 Extreme X6800 2.93 2 1 2872 3108 63.5 47.9

* PE1955
INT = "CINT2000" CFP = "CFP2000"
http://www.spec.org/cpu2000/results/res2006q3/
PE 1950 specs (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/pedge_1950?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~section=specs#tabtop) (5000X chipset, like the ProMacIntel)
PW 390 specs (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_390?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~tab=specstab) (975X chipset)

The Xeon 5160 is faster than any Core 2 Duo.

Note that CINT/CFP are single thread tests, and the two "Rate" tests are multi-threaded (so you see the quad core Woody at about double the dual core Conroe).

Also note that CFP is a *very* heavy memory test - you can't get a good FP score with a lousy memory system.

Clearly the faster bus speed that FB-DIMMs can use compensates for the "lousy efficiency".

Any idea if the upcoming products (CS3 for example) might find a way to utilize the FB-Dims more efficiently, or is the problems so prevalent,that it cant be overcome with anything?
One point with FB-DIMMs is to reduce the number of FB-DIMMs that you use. 8 GiB with four 2 GiB FB-DIMMs will be slightly faster than 8 GiB with eight 1 GiB FB-DIMMs. Very slightly faster.

Apple definately wouldn want a cheaper/weaker product to equal or crush it´s workstations in any area. Let alone on one that is considered it is pride,DTP.
There were a number of areas where the late G3 systems were faster than the new G4 systems - only on AltiVec apps was the G4 clearly better. The speed advantage of the Conroe is much less than the G3 had.

In addition, the Woody will crush the Conroe on any app that can use more than two cores.

Because that might be the deathblow to the Pizza-Mac.
Don't worry, the New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Home-Theatre Mac® will be here soon. ;)

50548
Aug 26, 2006, 09:56 AM
Hehehe...we have some true believers here... :rolleyes:

Mini Tower Mac = PowerBook G5 anyone?

Evangelion
Aug 26, 2006, 10:09 AM
Folks need to be careful when making G5 to Conroe/etc. comparisons....

The PPC 970FX (single core G5 which was in the iMac G5) has a TDP below that of a Conroe.

FX was used in the xServe, and they couldn't get dual-core CPU in there. As soon as they moved to woodcrest, they could replace that 2x G5 with 2x dual-core Woodcrests. Says quite a bit about how hot they run....

AidenShaw
Aug 26, 2006, 10:16 AM
FX was used in the xServe, and they couldn't get dual-core CPU in there. As soon as they moved to woodcrest, they could replace that 2x G5 with 2x dual-core Woodcrests.

Says quite a bit about how hot they run....
Perhaps, but you can find the much hotter Xeon Netburst chips (much hotter than the 970 dual core) in 1U systems (and even blades) from other companies.

It wasn't that "the dual core 970 was too hot for a 1U", but that Apple decided against coming out with a dual-core Xserve. (Since they knew that Intel was coming, it might not have been worth the engineering changes needed for the dual core...)

Eidorian
Aug 26, 2006, 11:00 AM
Watch the WWDC keynote and note that the xserves now use Woodcrest which has a higher TDP than Conroe (95W compared to 65W). Also note what they say about Woodcrest having a better thermal environment that the G5's they were using before which were the same G5's (non-dual core) that the iMac used I believe. Conroe has better thermal characteristics than G5's, the Mac Pro and xserve prove that.

iMac will get Conroe. 2.4Ghz and 2.66Ghz. Conroe is the best value for performance processor that Intel are offering, so they need to use it SOMEWHERE in their lineup.Err...I was defending that Conroe could fit in the iMac. Especially having the G5 in there. (Woodcrest's TDP is 85W by the way...)

And look here (http://spamreaper.org/frankie/macintel.html)

AidenShaw
Aug 26, 2006, 11:12 AM
Err...I was defending that Conroe could fit in the iMac. Especially having the G5 in there.
Could the deciding factor be the noise?

Not arguing about whether a Conroe would fit in the iMacIntel case - but wondering whether the extra heat would result in extra noise from the cooling fans.

The iMacIntel doesn't have to as fast as it possibly can, especially since the New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Home-Theatre Mac® will be there for people who want a bit more power without the size and cost of the maxi-tower ProMacIntel.

WildPalms
Aug 26, 2006, 11:14 AM
Don't worry, the New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Home-Theatre Mac® will be here soon. ;)


Gee, you'd want to be damn sure of that announcement next Tuesday or risk looking like a complete idiot. We shall soon see..

Eidorian
Aug 26, 2006, 11:16 AM
Could the deciding factor be the noise?

Not arguing about whether a Conroe would fit in the iMacIntel case - but wondering whether the extra heat would result in extra noise from the cooling fans.

The iMacIntel doesn't have to as fast as it possibly can, especially since the New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Home-Theatre Mac® will be there for people who want a bit more power without the size and cost of the maxi-tower ProMacIntel.Noise could be an issue in the iMac. Still, even the Rev. C iMac G5 was much quieter then the Rev. B.

The only noise my iMac Core Duo makes is when it wakes from sleep and reading the SuperDrive.

50548
Aug 26, 2006, 11:33 AM
Gee, you'd want to be damn sure of that announcement next Tuesday or risk looking like a complete idiot. We shall soon see..

Mr. Shaw is pronouncing this since late 2005...so no surprises here... :rolleyes:

skeep5
Aug 26, 2006, 02:32 PM
Like this?

http://static.flickr.com/20/73218496_12cd47ab24.jpg

gawd i hope i don't get banned for that!



uhm.... ok.

MacinDoc
Aug 26, 2006, 02:44 PM
IDon't worry, the New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Home-Theatre Mac® will be here soon. ;)
Wow, Aiden, you sound pretty confident about that. Do you know something that the rest of us don't? (It would make sense, however, to have a mid-range single Conroe-based desktop.)

Multimedia
Aug 26, 2006, 07:00 PM
A Little OT but mini TV related: Someone here made a post I can't find that said the EyeTV hybrid HDTV tuner was only relevant to less than 5% of the market. So I did a little Google and found out we are already at 20% HD penetration in USA (http://www.screendigest.com/reports/06highdeftv/readmore/view.html). So I thought I'd just let you all know the Mac mini as an HDTV + Tivo with a 24" display can be set up for about $1300. With the cheapest Dual Link DVI 15" MBP you can find would drive a 30" display for a total of about $2900 soon.

I have a 2GHz Dual Core G5 that can support a 30" Display only paid $900 for. When Dell puts the 30" up on the 20% off block it will only cost $1900 - $380 = $1520. So we are looking at Mac TVs in the 24" - 30" size for as little as $1450 - $2500. That seems pretty amazing to me.

$599 Mac mini Core 2 Duo + EyeTV hybrid $150 + 24" Dell $700 (20% off Sale Price) = $1450 new.

Used any solo or dual G5 PM with a Dual Link Video Card + 30" Dell $1520 (20% off Sale Price) = $2500 or less.

AidenShaw
Aug 26, 2006, 11:19 PM
Wow, Aiden, you sound pretty confident about that. Do you know something that the rest of us don't? (It would make sense, however, to have a mid-range single Conroe-based desktop.)
It's not that I know anything - it's just that it's so bloody obvious that nothing in Apple's current lineup is even remotely suitable for a home theater PC....

However, a Conroe in a DVD-player sized case, with 2 or 3 500GB or 750GB drives, a couple of TV tuners (SD and HD), FrontRow on steroids - then you'd have something.

Take a peek at what available in Windows for the Home Theatre space - like: http://www.acedigitalhome.com/limited.htm

Conroes with quad TV tuners, RAID, touch-screen controls....

Multimedia
Aug 26, 2006, 11:47 PM
It's not that I know anything - it's just that it's so bloody obvious that nothing in Apple's current lineup is even remotely suitable for a home theater PC....

However, a Conroe in a DVD-player sized case, with 2 or 3 500GB or 750GB drives, a couple of TV tuners (SD and HD), FrontRow on steroids - then you'd have something.

Take a peek at what available in Windows for the Home Theatre space - like: http://www.acedigitalhome.com/limited.htm

Conroes with quad TV tuners, RAID, touch-screen controls....Holy Molly! That look fantastic! How much money are they?

poppe
Aug 27, 2006, 01:08 AM
I still think FrontRow need to be improved drastically before it goes to a Media Center like thing. Great first attempt, but I still thing there is room for improvement...

tedrjr03
Aug 27, 2006, 01:11 AM
I hope that this is all true because i plan on picking up a new intelimac or mini.

ScubaDuc
Aug 27, 2006, 04:50 PM
A better question is: when does the LCD OR the computer die, especially in the case of Macs? I would say never...


Sorry to disappoint you but even Apple screens do die....My Apple LCD did about a month before Applecare expired. They lost it and I had to wait 7 weeks for a replacement. Mind u, it did die so beautifully...a few flickers and then there was peace :rolleyes:

mterlouw
Aug 27, 2006, 05:26 PM
Or, more likely, when the computer is obsolete you have a good screen that you can't use.

Apple needs something between the horribly constrained MiniMac, and the preposterously huge ProMac.

I agree. I have a 20" widescreen, and don't see a need to replace that any time soon. Over on the PC side, "they" are going to try and push you into upgrading if you want to watch hi-def content, as they will restrict playback to monitors that support HDCP. I guess Apple can try and entice you with a built-in iSight or semi-forced bundling of monitors with the iMac. But really, a good monitor can last you through at least two computers, so why waste the money?

Kashchei
Aug 27, 2006, 05:36 PM
finally a rumor!

after weeks of speculation on the forums, a front page rumor feels fact!

holding my thumbs for a conroe imac! (a swedish expression...i think?)

"Hold your thumbs" is a French expression as well. I had no ideas the Swedes held their thumbs as well, but I'll be doing the same thing since I can't wait to see the new minis as well.

Kashchei
Aug 27, 2006, 06:01 PM
the new intel integrated graphics isn't ready, is it? So these will be merom minis with a GMA 950?

This is the $64K question. Does anyone know when the X3000 is due to be released?

Pressure
Aug 27, 2006, 06:07 PM
Err...I was defending that Conroe could fit in the iMac. Especially having the G5 in there. (Woodcrest's TDP is 85W by the way...)

And look here (http://spamreaper.org/frankie/macintel.html)

Remember that TDP is for the highest clocked chip (3.0Ghz). The rest of the family sits at 65W TDP, like the Conroe.

Dont Hurt Me
Aug 27, 2006, 06:26 PM
This is the $64K question. Does anyone know when the X3000 is due to be released?True, with it the mini is a solid little machine, without it it still lacks graphics. Its coming soon because Intel wants to take away $$$ from nvidia & ati.

ezekielrage_99
Aug 27, 2006, 07:33 PM
If they bring out a core2duo mac mini it will be faster than my 18month old power mac.

cant see it happening, they might go for a faster core duo in the mac mini and macbook then core 2 duo in iMac and Macbook pro

I would have said the same about the Mac Mini getting a Core Duo about 10 months ago.

ezekielrage_99
Aug 27, 2006, 07:39 PM
This is the $64K question. Does anyone know when the X3000 is due to be released?

I was under the impression when the Core 2 Duos were released, but I hope very soon because they are a measurable improvement over the GMA950 which isn't as bad as everyone make it out to be.

ergle2
Aug 27, 2006, 07:55 PM
I was under the impression when the Core 2 Duos were released, but I hope very soon because they are a measurable improvement over the GMA950 which isn't as bad as everyone make it out to be.

The benchmarks I've seen suggest that it's in fact slower.

Take a look at http://www.pconline.com.cn/market/sh/shoppingguide/changshang/0608/844892.html

The Inquirer - I know, that bastion of rumor-mongering and unfounded allegation - has been reporting that OEMs are saying "it sucks".

Maybe this will be sorted out in later steppings, but these were awfully recent revsions...

Dave K
Aug 27, 2006, 08:51 PM
Could the deciding factor be the noise?

Not arguing about whether a Conroe would fit in the iMacIntel case - but wondering whether the extra heat would result in extra noise from the cooling fans.

The iMacIntel doesn't have to as fast as it possibly can, especially since the New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Home-Theatre Mac® will be there for people who want a bit more power without the size and cost of the maxi-tower ProMacIntel.I know Maximum PC was playing around with the Core 2 Duo Extreme and, with an aftermarket heatsink + fan, were able to keep it at ~50 degrees C running at 100% U. on both cores. For fun, they unplugged the fan, made it recode an entire DVD to DivX and couldn't get it to a) go over 75 C, b) report a cut in processor speed, or c) shut off in protest.

So, with a well designed cooling system, i suspect they shouldn't have any problem fitting that in a iMac and keeping it quiet.

pjo
Aug 28, 2006, 07:22 AM
I've been thinking of the Mini as a new dedicated Mac

...
Just add a Dell 24" Display for $704 and you have a native HD TV with Tivo Like Recorder for only about $1452



I still can't decide between this setup and a 20" iMac (educ discount) for my TV requirements...

Edit:
hmm.. the iMac's audio input isn't optical so that may swing it towards the mini.

mrgreen4242
Aug 28, 2006, 10:19 AM
Ah.... this speculation really brings back the memories of PowerPC rumors. Like when everyone was speculating if we see 3 Ghz G5's. I thought the feeling would be gone now we have intel (and its roadmaps), but debating on wether we might see a Core 2 Duo line-up soon brings the excitement right back. Hope this time the rumors do come true. This eventhough I am completely not in the market for a new Mac (neither was I for a 3 Ghz PowerMac :p)


You got some serious ideas (http://spamreaper.org/frankie/wanted.html) frankie :cool: :)
Yeah I also had that idea. Given the number of people that use the mini as server or multimedia center that will be nice (Microsoft is already planning for giving mini-screen support in vista, so it is a good idea). I actually though about this to turn the mini into a laptop. Thus some kind of battery+Screen+keyboard add-on. This would truly emphasize the phrase BYOMKM (Bring your own Monitor Keyboard and mouse). But then again; a laptop would be much easier.
Yeah you are quite right. It is predominantly the size of 3.5" hard disk that will hardly even fit in the total casing.


3.5" Hard disks are (4.00 x 5.75 x 1.00) (http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op/formIn35.html) inch.
2.5" Hard disks are (2.75 x 3.94 x 0.67) (http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/op/formIn25.html) inch.


The original G4 mini had a dedicated graphics chip and full size SDRAM so that is not the problem. Maybe the Mini should get an external SATA port on the bottom. External SATA ports are becoming available for PC's so it might be an idea for the mini. This way makers of external hard disks like LaCie can offer a real high performance solution. The hard disk is now a serious bottleneck in the mini's performance as can be seen here (g4 mini benchmark) (http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/mini/) and a standard 3.5" disk would solve this. Particularly when loading applications and interface responsiveness (especially if you have not that much ram as how most people configure their mini which, to make things worse, also uses the ram as video memory).

Or just wait until Robson flash-harddisks will be included in Macs. This will make the performance better and eliminate the need for large and high data capacity hard disks. Since not many users will be able to fill a 250 GB harddisk, although they might want the performance of a 250 GB harddisk.

The G4 mini HDD was/is teh suck. The Intel machines are pretty decent, from most accounts (5400rpm SATA comes close to 7200rpm IDE drives, which is adequate for casual use, which is obviously the mini's market). The capacity is really killer for the mini, though. Even a fairly casual/moderate user wants more than 100gb now-a-days.

An external SATA port would be sweet, and also gives Apple an opening, which I think they should have taken when they launched the mini: an "official media breakout box" or Asteroid 2.0. A box about the size of the mini itself with a SATA bay+big ass drive, FW and USB hubs, AND a ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuner w/ a few input choices (RF for the tuner, and some direct to the encoder vidoe options like Svideo and Component). Put the IR reciever in that, bundle it with the remote and FrontRow Pro, with built in DVR and a (PPV?) movie/TV show download system linked into iTMS. Throw in a choice of DVI/HMDI, DVI/DVI, or DVI/Component cable as a 'free' BTO option and they could move a lot of units.

AidenShaw
Aug 28, 2006, 03:17 PM
...an "official media breakout box" or Asteroid 2.0. A box about the size of the mini itself...
This came up earlier, and I said "That would be too *ugly* for Apple to even consider..." (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=2759645&postcount=138)

Multimedia
Aug 28, 2006, 08:10 PM
I still can't decide between this setup and a 20" iMac (educ discount) for my TV requirements... hmm.. the iMac's audio input isn't optical so that may swing it towards the mini.Keeping components separate is much wiser. You can keep the 24" Screen when you upgrade the mini in future. iMac is a problem when either screen or computer break or become power obsolete. 23/24" screen is NATIVE HD Resolution 1920 x 1200 (1080) - not so the iMac 20".

TangoCharlie
Aug 29, 2006, 10:31 AM
Is Conroe pin-compatible with the iMac, though? I didn't think it was...and I definitely think that Apple should try to get a Conroe chip in that computer (or else release a mid-sized tower).

The Merom chip is pin compatible with the current iMac CPU, and I believe Apple will release an updated iMac using Merom. Intel is marketting both Merom and Conroe as Core 2 Duo, which is confusing...

The Mac mini will, it seems, get the Core Duo as standard. This is as I predicted a while back. The Mac mini, _will_ eventually get a Core 2 Duo, but not yet.... Apple will want to get the Mac Book Pro and the iMac updated first.

The update to the Mac mini line is more of a Marketting thing.... it allows Apple to boast that it's the only big manufacturer to use dual-core exclusively across the whole line-up.
:)

TangoCharlie
Aug 29, 2006, 11:02 AM
a bit off topic... does any one know of a comparable pc and cost? the mini seems a bit expensive at 799 for a 1.6 dore duo

For comparison, Evesham (a UK based company)** do a "mini" PC, which
goes gor 699 GPB, which is about $1300. Specs are as follows:

* Genuine Windows® XP Media Centre Edition 2005
* Intel® Core™ Duo processor T2300 (1.66GHz, 2MB L2 cache, 667MHz)
* 512MB DDR-2 533MHz RAM
* 100GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
* Intel GMA950 integrated graphics
* Microsoft Works 8
* Bronze 1 year warranty

I'd say that's pretty close in specs to the specs of the "better"Mac mini,
which in the UK is priced at 529GBP, or about $1000.

* Mac mini
* 1.66GHz Intel Core Duo processor
* 2MB L2 Cache
* 667MHz Frontside Bus
* 512MB memory (667MHz DDR2 SDRAM)
* 80GB Serial ATA hard drive
* Double-layer SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* Built-in AirPort Extreme and Bluetooth 2.0
* Apple Remote


I think the Apple unit has the edge in terms of specs, looks, price and of course, OS! (Well, I would, woudn't I!!)

:)



** I've bought Evesham PC's and servers in the past, and I find them pretty good :-)

milo
Aug 29, 2006, 11:53 AM
I think the Apple unit has the edge in terms of specs, looks, price and of course, OS! (Well, I would, woudn't I!!)

Sure. But many people don't WANT a tiny box. On the apple side, you're paying extra for the miniturization. Unfortunately, since apple doesn't offer any alternatives to the mini, it's also competing with regular budget pc's.

When you look at what you can get for $799 in a pc, the mini looks way overpriced.

Aeolius
Sep 3, 2006, 08:25 AM
Don't worry, the New Form-Factor Conroe Mini-Tower/Home-Theatre Mac® will be here soon.

Apple better hurry. The TiVo Series3 (http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr.asp) is on its way. ;) I'd still like a media server/home automation server solution from Apple, but until then, I'll keep looking at Indigo (http://www.perceptiveautomation.com/indigo/index.html) (2.0 beta coming soon) for home automation and a DVD server like Kaleidescape (http://www.kaleidescape.com/experience/) .

M-Life
Sep 4, 2006, 08:09 PM
Would something in this realm be feasible for the mini updates? Just wondering while waiting for updates. Of course this is very vague on my part.

$499: Core solo - 1.5
$599: Core duo Yonah - 1.66
$699: Core duo Yonah - 1.83
$799: Core 2 duo Merom - low end (Not sure what that is)

aswitcher
Sep 4, 2006, 10:40 PM
Would something in this realm be feasible for the mini updates? Just wondering while waiting for updates. Of course this is very vague on my part.

$499: Core solo - 1.5
$599: Core duo Yonah - 1.66
$699: Core duo Yonah - 1.83
$799: Core 2 duo Merom - low end (Not sure what that is)

I will be surprised if the Solo continues. Duo across the line, even C2D, would be a nice milestone and there shouldn't be a lot of money difference.

surroundfan
Sep 4, 2006, 11:56 PM
I will be surprised if the Solo continues. Duo across the line, even C2D, would be a nice milestone and there shouldn't be a lot of money difference.

Also, let's not forget that Solos are Duos that have one core disabled. As Intel's yields have improved have improved over time (I would guess), I suspect that the need to sell Solos to recoup losses would be reduced...

The big guessing game will be when the speed bump occurs: now, on 12 September or on 25 September (Photokina)...

MacinDoc
Sep 5, 2006, 12:12 AM
Would something in this realm be feasible for the mini updates? Just wondering while waiting for updates. Of course this is very vague on my part.

$499: Core solo - 1.5
$599: Core duo Yonah - 1.66
$699: Core duo Yonah - 1.83
$799: Core 2 duo Merom - low end (Not sure what that is)
Won't happen, all Core Solos are now the same price as the 1.66 GHz Core2 Duo. So, the Solo is dead. And, regrettably, a price drop is unlikely.

After G
Sep 5, 2006, 12:14 AM
I thought Core Solo production was winding down, so maybe Apple could buy 'em all and do a price-drop. :D

Maybe in another life ... :(

evilgEEk
Sep 5, 2006, 12:14 AM
...or on 25 September (Photokina)...
Oye, I hope it's sooner than that. I want to buy a mini for my office, but I can't wait that long. The 12th is about as long as I can wait, so come on Apple, help me out! :D

surroundfan
Sep 5, 2006, 01:33 AM
I thought Core Solo production was winding down, so maybe Apple could buy 'em all and do a price-drop. :D

Maybe in another life ... :(

Better still, Apple could move to Duos and do a price drop... (I wish!) ;)

UnreaL
Sep 5, 2006, 02:58 AM
Any updates guys?

I mean its the 5th today!

I want a new mac mini! :)

Chris Bangle
Sep 5, 2006, 03:13 AM
2pm GMT

DRewPi
Sep 5, 2006, 05:28 AM
Bring on some stuff Today APpLe COMMON !!!!:D

longsilver
Sep 5, 2006, 08:19 AM
Looks like something's happening :)

longsilver
Sep 5, 2006, 08:21 AM
Well, the US store is down anyways. UK and Ireland are still up. Anyone checked any others?

awraisch
Sep 5, 2006, 08:25 AM
do they usually shut the store down for something as small as a speed bump?

DRewPi
Sep 5, 2006, 08:27 AM
Well something is happening since the store is down that should be good newz for at least today !!!! we should see some upgrade of a kind, probably the mini with some shiny new MBP C2D !!!

GO APPLE !!! :D :) ;)

HecubusPro
Sep 5, 2006, 08:29 AM
Well something is happening since the store is down that should be good newz for at least today !!!! we should see some upgrade of a kind, probably the mini with some shiny new MBP C2D !!!

GO APPLE !!! :D :) ;)

I'll say let's see a mac mini refresh since this thread is about the mac mini (but what I really want is the MBP C2D as well. Here's hoping :D )

Goldfinger
Sep 5, 2006, 08:36 AM
Go to Apple.com and you'll see there is a blank space next to the 30 inch Cinema Display ad.

fastlane1588
Sep 5, 2006, 08:37 AM
come on mbp!

longsilver
Sep 5, 2006, 08:43 AM
UK and Ireland stores are still up so now I'm beginning to think they'll announce a Mac Mini AirPort hybrid with DVR capabilities, a huge HD, and input-output and on-the-fly hardware decoding for every video feed you can think of and it'll retail at $50...

...but it'll only work in the US.

Dang it :mad:

:D

Chris Bangle
Sep 5, 2006, 08:48 AM
2pm GMT


As i said earlier

longsilver
Sep 5, 2006, 08:56 AM
As i said earlier

9AM Eastern is the most obvious time to do it, I guess. (But, to be pedantic, did you mean 2pm GMT or BST? ;) :) )

awraisch
Sep 5, 2006, 09:05 AM
store back up . . .no update?

Chris Bangle
Sep 5, 2006, 09:06 AM
9AM Eastern is the most obvious time to do it, I guess. (But, to be pedantic, did you mean 2pm GMT or BST? ;) :) )

I time i meant was London time which is the same as GMT but i dont know th difference between GMT and British Standard time. Come on new imacs....

Apple you morans, no updates to the store, my life is over.

longsilver
Sep 5, 2006, 09:10 AM
It is back up but I can't spot any update. And from what I can tell, none of the other countries' stores went down at all.

uv23
Sep 5, 2006, 09:11 AM
Lame.

UnreaL
Sep 5, 2006, 04:15 PM
Where's my new mac mini damnit! :mad:

Disappointed :(

Anyone know if it will be having a revision or if all of this was baseless dross, little more than hype?

milo
Sep 5, 2006, 04:29 PM
Where's my new mac mini damnit! :mad:

Disappointed :(

Anyone know if it will be having a revision or if all of this was baseless dross, little more than hype?

Be patient. We'll probably see it in the next couple weeks, definitely by the end of the month.

macman2790
Sep 6, 2006, 12:46 AM
yeah hopefully by at least the 26th or the 12th. but by speculating that it's going to happen the following week hasn't worked for anyone yet

donbadman
Sep 6, 2006, 05:50 AM
The layout for the mini page on the uk store is different to usa with lots of white space on the right hand side, might be a new model?

PilotWoo
Sep 6, 2006, 06:37 AM
Apple Store UK is down. "Back within the hour".

PilotWoo

Markleshark
Sep 6, 2006, 06:48 AM
Wow... Pleaseeeeeee let it be

surroundfan
Sep 6, 2006, 06:56 AM
Most of Europe's down. Oz and the US are still up, so a product update's unlikely (I'd guess)...

Echo toxin
Sep 6, 2006, 06:58 AM
I suspect it's the rest of the stores doing whatever the US one did yesterday - i.e. no visible change!

surroundfan
Sep 6, 2006, 07:34 AM
New Mac Minis have landed. Core Duo 1.66 and 1.83. Otherwise the same...

160GB HDD option though. Just the thing for a media centre...

milo
Sep 6, 2006, 07:38 AM
yeah hopefully by at least the 26th or the 12th. but by speculating that it's going to happen the following week hasn't worked for anyone yet

Anyone speculating it would happen before about now was on crack. Go to a site like Apple Insider, they don't make the "every week" predictions like Thinksecret does. A shipment of minis came in the fifth, my guess would be that they won't announce them at the event (but maybe I'm wrong), but will just do a press release a few days after.

zeppiecr
Sep 6, 2006, 07:39 AM
Pricing Now Starts at Just $999; New 24-inch Model Added


CUPERTINO, Calif., Sept. 6 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Apple(R) today
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that makes it super-easy to create amazing websites with photos, blogs and
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Pricing & Availability

The new iMac line is shipping today and will be available through the
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1.66 GHz Intel Core Duo processor, and the $599 model now includes a 1.66 GHz
Intel Core Duo processor, up from a 1.5 GHz Intel Core Solo processor.


The new 24-inch 2.16 GHz iMac, for a suggested retail price of $1,999
(US), includes:

-24-inch widescreen LCD display;
-2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor;
-1GB of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM expandable to 3GB;
-8x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD+R DL/DVD+/-RW/CD-RW);
-PCI Express-based NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT with 128MB GDDR3 memory;
-built-in iSight video camera;
-built-in AirPort Extreme wireless networking & Bluetooth 2.0+EDR;
-250GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 7200 rpm;
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separately);
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-the infrared Apple Remote, Mighty Mouse and Apple Keyboard.


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(US), includes:

-20-inch widescreen LCD display;
-2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor;
-1GB of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM expandable to 3GB;
-8x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD+R DL/DVD+/-RW/CD-RW);
-PCI Express-based ATI Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory;
-built-in iSight video camera;
-built-in AirPort Extreme wireless networking & Bluetooth 2.0+EDR;
-250GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 7200 rpm;
-mini-DVI out (adapters for DVI, VGA and Composite/S-Video sold
separately);
-built-in stereo speakers and microphone; and
-the infrared Apple Remote, Mighty Mouse and Apple Keyboard.


The new 17-inch 2.0 GHz iMac, for a suggested retail price of $1,199 (US),
includes:

-17-inch widescreen LCD display;
-2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor;
-1GB of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM expandable to 3GB;
-8x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD+R DL/DVD+/-RW/CD-RW);
-PCI Express-based ATI Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory;
-built-in iSight video camera;
-built-in AirPort Extreme wireless networking & Bluetooth 2.0+EDR;
-160GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 7200 rpm;
-mini-DVI out (adapters for DVI, VGA and Composite/S-Video sold
separately);
-built-in stereo speakers and microphone; and
-the infrared Apple Remote, Mighty Mouse and Apple Keyboard.


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includes:

-17-inch widescreen LCD display;
-1.83 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor;
-512MB of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM expandable to 2GB;
-24x Combo drive;
-Intel GMA 950 graphics;
-built-in iSight video camera;
-built-in AirPort Extreme wireless networking;
-160GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 7200 rpm;
-mini-DVI out (adapters for DVI, VGA and Composite/S-Video sold
separately);
-built-in stereo speakers and microphone; and
-Mighty Mouse and Apple Keyboard.


Build-to-order options and accessories include: a 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2
Duo processor, up to 3GB DDR2 SDRAM, NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT with 256MB GDDR3
video memory and a 500GB Serial ATA hard drive on the 24-inch iMac; a 2.33 GHz
Intel Core 2 Duo processor, up to 3GB DDR2 SDRAM, 256MB GGDR3 video memory and
a 500GB Serial ATA hard drive on the 20-inch iMac; a 2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
processor, up to 3GB DDR2 SRDAM and a 500GB Serial ATA hard drive on the 2.0
GHz 17-inch iMac; and up to 2GB of DDR2 SDRAM, Bluetooth 2.0+EDR and Apple
Remote on the 1.83 GHz 17-inch iMac. Additional build-to-order options also
include: pre-installed copies of iWork(TM) 06, Logic(R) Express, Final Cut(R)
Express and Aperture(TM); AirPort Express(TM) and AirPort Extreme Base
Station; Apple Wireless Keyboard and wireless Mighty Mouse; Apple USB Modem;
and the AppleCare Protection Plan.


*Based on estimated results of industry-standard SPECint and SPECfp rate
tests. SPEC is a registered trademark of Standard Performance Evaluation
Corporation (SPEC); see http://www.apple.com/iMac for more information.


Apple ignited the personal computer revolution in the 1970s with the Apple
II and reinvented the personal computer in the 1980s with the Macintosh.
Today, Apple continues to lead the industry in innovation with its
award-winning desktop and notebook computers, OS X operating system, and iLife
and professional applications. Apple is also spearheading the digital music
revolution with its iPod portable music players and iTunes online music store.


NOTE: Apple, the Apple logo, Mac, Mac OS, Macintosh, iMac, iSight, iLife,
SuperDrive, iMovie, Airport Extreme, FireWire, iPhoto, iDVD, GarageBand, iWeb,
Safari, iCal, Apple Store, iWork, Logic, Final Cut, Aperture and AirPort
Express are trademarks of Apple. Other company and product names may be
trademarks of their respective owners.


SOURCE Apple Computer, Inc.

milo
Sep 6, 2006, 08:09 AM
yeah hopefully by at least the 26th or the 12th. but by speculating that it's going to happen the following week hasn't worked for anyone yet

They just updated the minis. I guess the predictions that it would happen soon turned out to be right after all.

:D