PDA

View Full Version : Dead Pixels everywhere on Apple Displays


Philoman
Mar 26, 2003, 06:13 PM
I recently purchased and returned two and seen one other 20 inch cinema displays with dead pixels.

Is this common on Apple LCD monitors?

Usually you can detect dead pixels better if you have a black background.
In severe cases, you can see plainly on your screen with desktop picture.

(you can quickly make your screen black if you go to Screen Effects and select Picture Folder and press test (OSX) - NOTE: if you have any pictures selected, this will not work.)

Mr. Anderson
Mar 26, 2003, 06:25 PM
How many dead pixels are we talking about? I have a TiPB and it has bad pixels, one dead and one stuck. Not that big of deal since they're off to the side. But I know that there have been issues.

D

TyleRomeo
Mar 26, 2003, 06:27 PM
this is why i have formacs 2010 so i don't have to deal with dead pixels and if i have 3 dead ones within 3 years, they send me a new monitor, much better than apple's 10 dead pixel warranty.

Tyler

howard
Mar 26, 2003, 06:28 PM
i know lots of people with different kinds of macs, old and new with all sorts of pixel anomolies. its something that seems to be a problem

Bear
Mar 26, 2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by howard
i know lots of people with different kinds of macs, old and new with all sorts of pixel anomolies. its something that seems to be a problem
Rememeber people who have problems complain a lot.

I have three different Apple LCD screens with no problems.

Philoman
Mar 26, 2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Bear
Rememeber people who have problems complain a lot.

I have three different Apple LCD screens with no problems.


Hey Bear, is this mean I have a lot of problems in my life? or are you suggesting that we should "complain a lot" about this issue?

Bear
Mar 26, 2003, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Philoman
Hey Bear, is this mean I have a lot of problems in my life? or are you suggesting that we should "complain a lot" about this issue?
No what I meant is that in general the pool of people who have problems complain while the people who have no problems usually don't say much.

This was more directed at "I've heard a log of people have problems..." that some people use. This tends to blow issues out of proportion.

iJon
Mar 26, 2003, 06:59 PM
the one i used to have had one dead pixel right in the middle, this was a 20 inch display. call apple and raise hell. couldnt hurt.

iJon

MrMacMan
Mar 26, 2003, 07:34 PM
0 dead pixels on 17" iMac.

BTW, make sure they aren't putting the one with dead pixels and giving the screen with them back to you.
Its saddlu been done.
Return one ---> get new one ----> They might (if not shipped back yet) give you the nearest one to them, the one you returned originally! :eek: .

Make sure it doesn't happen to you.

Cecret
Mar 26, 2003, 09:20 PM
Not really on topic, but I just replaced the display on my pb400ti and have noticed a single stuck pixel (always red). It is off to the side but should I complain and get it fixed or just live with it??

movabi
Mar 26, 2003, 09:28 PM
I'm very disappointed with some of my apple purchases as of late... ipod excluded. Stuck pixels... bitchy tech support (even with applecare)

What ever happened to a simple on / off switch that just turns the monitor off instead of sleeping the machine? What happened to the keyboard power switch / sleep / cancel?

What happened to blazing speeds? Built in SCSI?

as a ten year apple veteran, I'm failing to see the advantage of mac hardware. Apple, s*** or get off the pot! Time for return of the clones.;)

G4scott
Mar 26, 2003, 09:49 PM
The only dead pixel on any Apple screen of mine was on an old blueberry iBook. My latest iBook and my PowerBook G4 12" have no dead or stuck pixels.

iJon
Mar 26, 2003, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by movabi
I'm very disappointed with some of my apple purchases as of late... ipod excluded. Stuck pixels... bitchy tech support (even with applecare)

What ever happened to a simple on / off switch that just turns the monitor off instead of sleeping the machine? What happened to the keyboard power switch / sleep / cancel?

What happened to blazing speeds? Built in SCSI?

as a ten year apple veteran, I'm failing to see the advantage of mac hardware. Apple, s*** or get off the pot! Time for return of the clones.;)
bye

iJon

alset
Mar 26, 2003, 10:24 PM
I have only seen a dead pixel on one Apple LCD, EVER. I know that doesn't mean they aren't an issue, and you best believe that I'd raise hell if I got a new display with DPs in the middle of my screen, but I don't think it's such an issue as to give Apple a bad rep.

Dan

Kid Red
Mar 26, 2003, 11:03 PM
iBook 500-0 dead pixels
22" cinema display-2 dead pixels
23" HDTV-0 dead pixels
15" iMac- 0 dead pixels
15"pBook-0 dead pixels

A 23" had 2 bad pixels and I returned for a new one [above] with 0 bad pixels. I wouldn't say it's a problem until tens of thousands of people complain. What, maybe hundred or so people out of the hundreds of thousands of notebooks, iMacs and LCDs have a few bad pixels?

That sounds pretty damn good to me so the notion of Apple putting out crappy LCD is, well, crap.

janey
Mar 26, 2003, 11:07 PM
try pixel check to check for more dead pixels (http://versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11661)...helped me find a couple of dead pixels and proof to back up my claim when i went to bitch at Apple.

Quixcube
Mar 27, 2003, 09:42 AM
Apple has been much better than average for me.

23" inch cinema display 0 dead/stuck
22" inch cinema display 0 dead/stuck
15" imacs (3) 0 dead/stuck
15" powerbooks (2) 0 dead/stuck
14" powerbook 0 dead/stuck

My other displays are all Eizo, SGI, or Formac. Only the SGI has a problem, one stuck pixel (but it is very very old, the old 1600x1024 one).

Be careful of Formac. They make many promises with their warranty, but if you try to file a claim against it you will be in for a world of frustration (in my experience at least, and many others').

The Eizo displays are top notch in every way, and better quality than any of the Apple displays I own. They cost more per inch though.

.a
Mar 27, 2003, 10:33 AM
one stuck pixel on new ibook 12" hmmm... what about massage-ing it? i've heard about it, but i am not that sure if i should touch around the screen.
.a

MacsRgr8
Mar 27, 2003, 02:40 PM
We have 40 iMac Flatpanels, 30 iBooks, 5 Apple TFT displays at our company: a total of 3 dead pixels! Seriously.
My uncle got an iMac Flatpanel at home: het got 2.
In my opinion, there is no issue, my uncle's opinion: Apple has a problem....
I would like to know the dead/stuck pixel to Apple TFT ratio.
What is acceptable? And what is the chance of being that unlucky that you have 9 dead pixels on a 15" iMac, and can't claim anything?

cc bcc
Mar 27, 2003, 03:10 PM
And what is the chance of being that unlucky that you have 9 dead pixels on a 15" iMac, and can't claim anything?

If I had 9 dead pixels and Apple wouldn't do anyting about it, I'm sure I'd find a way to kill some pixels manually.. :cool:

1 or 2 dead pixels is not a real problem I think, it can happen, you should know this when you buy a TFT.

thedude
Mar 27, 2003, 03:15 PM
I work at a place that recently purchased several 20" CD and found that there was 1 stuck pix right smack in the middle of the display on one of them. If it were off to the side, I wouldn't care, but right in the middle is distracting. I hope this isn't a sign that apple is trying to cut corners to offer their displays at a lower cost...

MacsRgr8
Mar 27, 2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by cc bcc
If I had 9 dead pixels and Apple wouldn't do anyting about it, I'm sure I'd find a way to kill some pixels manually.. :cool:


And if not, you can kill the salesman not offering a deal manually :D

comrade
Mar 27, 2003, 03:38 PM
Just used that pixel program to be sure, but no dead pixels on my 17" iMac. I was worried I would have afew but am impressed with a flawless screen (knock on wood). My last computer was a notebook that shipped with a few dead pixels. What a sucky way to start with a new computer.

mstecker
Mar 27, 2003, 04:23 PM
I love my new 12" AlBook, but there's a single very frustrating dead pixel. The day I got it, I called up Apple, and the rep actually laughed at me. Laughed! When I suggested that I'd like to exchange my machine because of the dead pixel. She gave me the standard line about how if there weren't 10, then it wasn't a defect. I couldn't return it in any case, she said, because it was a custom configuration.


Has anyone had luck getting apple to replace TFTs for one or two dead pixels?

Skurn
Apr 5, 2003, 02:36 PM
Yesterday, when I got my new 17" iMac, I found a nice stuck pixel almost in the middle of the screen. It was white at a blue background, and green at a black background. Very annoying.
Anyways, I tried to rub it. It didn't work at first, but I tried again today and rubbed it for about 2 minutes and it started to blink. I rubbed it some more and it actually disappeared! Now I'm really happy with my iMac, and I doesn't feel bummed for being one of the poor ppl having stuck/dead pixels. :)
Good luck to any other person who tries this out, cause it doesn't seem to always work.

nanosound
Apr 5, 2003, 04:15 PM
I just received my new PB 17 from MacZone. While it is a really beautiful machine, it has a couple stuck pixels, one very noticeable. I called MacZone, but they are totally hands off once the product ships. I called Apple and went to their store several times yesterday to no avail. They say it still falls within "spec". Spec to them is anything less than a cluster of five or more anamolous pixels. One of their customer reps gave me the line that that is how they receive the screens from Samsung, as do other computer manufacturers. So much for Apple thinking differently! Someone in the store hinted that they might have replaced it had I got it from that store. So what is the lesson learned? Don't buy from a reseller because they don't back you anyways. But I'm sure this is what Apple would want us to do to drive up their store profits for the books.

So I am begrudgingly coping with it. I use a background that matches the value of the pixel glow. It is noticeable when a darker background appears. I will live with this, and next time, will buy at the store and inspect it before any money leaves my hands (in this case $4,000.00)!

I think we need a better technology to replace LCDs. Firms are supposedly working on a flat CRT type screen.

To me it's sad that Apple markets the laptop based on its main feature, the screen, which has noticeable problems with it.

iJon
Apr 5, 2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by nanosound
I just received my new PB 17 from MacZone. While it is a really beautiful machine, it has a couple stuck pixels, one very noticeable. I called MacZone, but they are totally hands off once the product ships. I called Apple and went to their store several times yesterday to no avail. They say it still falls within "spec". Spec to them is anything less than a cluster of five or more anamolous pixels. One of their customer reps gave me the line that that is how they receive the screens from Samsung, as do other computer manufacturers. So much for Apple thinking differently! Someone in the store hinted that they might have replaced it had I got it from that store. So what is the lesson learned? Don't buy from a reseller because they don't back you anyways. But I'm sure this is what Apple would want us to do to drive up their store profits for the books.

So I am begrudgingly coping with it. I use a background that matches the value of the pixel glow. It is noticeable when a darker background appears. I will live with this, and next time, will buy at the store and inspect it before any money leaves my hands (in this case $4,000.00)!

I think we need a better technology to replace LCDs. Firms are supposedly working on a flat CRT type screen.

To me it's sad that Apple markets the laptop based on its main feature, the screen, which has noticeable problems with it.
most resellers probably would help you, maczone just sells it. they have no support what so ever and its all done through apple. call apple and if you speak in the right tone you may get what you want.

iJon

gopher
Apr 5, 2003, 04:52 PM
1 semi-stuck pixel on my Flat Panel iMac. Goes away with time, and then sometimes comes back.

1 straight line of stuck pixels at startup on my Powerbook G3/233 with 512k backside, but it is completely gone once the desktop loads.

Sedulous
Apr 5, 2003, 07:32 PM
I have two 22" Cinema Displays. The first one has a small scratch and one dead pixel in the corner. The second one shipped with about 50 bad pixels, after arguing with the service people at Apple, they sent me a new one. The replacement shipped with a few bad pixels and a long black mark inside the display (looked much like a pencil mark). Apple sent me a third display (after much arguing). The third screen has no bad pixels but slightly uneven brightness. Apple then called me to say that they had not received the returned displays and was going to charge me for them. Unfortunately, because the letter that comes with the return shipping stickers doesn't have any shipping info for the screens, I had no way to prove that they were indeed shipped! Stupid mistake on my part. Apple later discovered the displays. I came pretty close to "unswitching".

Nearly every TFT I've bought from Apple has had bad pixels. For the price they charge, this has been quite a drag.

nanosound
Apr 5, 2003, 11:47 PM
iJon:

I soke to several people at Apple. Believe me, I was not at all irate--I don't believe that approach works. I spoke to many people. They could empathize with me, but they all said it is within spec. Yeah, it sucks. It's just annoying that for all the money we pay, being a long-time Apple customer, that we get stuck with faulty components. Like I say, next time I'll pick one off the floor. No mail order. No more MacZone either and I will make sure my friends don't use them either.

Sedulous:

Yeah, we do pay a premium for the Apple brand. Ashame about their TFTs. I hope they truly "innovate" and use a better technology in the future.

Sedulous
Apr 6, 2003, 03:35 AM
I am of the opinion that Apple should set the "spec" for returnable displays a bit lower. 10 or even 5 bad pixels on a screen is pretty bad. Apple should test the TFT before they ever build it into the display and try to sell it. What is so hard about that? I know it is expensive to ship defective units around and the cost of disatisfied customers is something to consider as well. I know I was angry with Apple... especially after they tried to charge me another $5000 for displays they claim were "lost".

filipp
Apr 6, 2003, 06:58 AM
Just my 2 cents

We bought 2 17'' powerbooks at work, reveived them this friday. There are no dead or stuck pixels on our machines at all.

Great stuff

iGav
Apr 6, 2003, 07:52 AM
Originally posted by Sedulous
I am of the opinion that Apple should set the "spec" for returnable displays a bit lower. 10 or even 5 bad pixels on a screen is pretty bad. Apple should test the TFT before they ever build it into the display and try to sell it. What is so hard about that? I know it is expensive to ship defective units around and the cost of disatisfied customers is something to consider as well. I know I was angry with Apple... especially after they tried to charge me another $5000 for displays they claim were "lost".

Regardless of what people say, Apple doesn't have a specific stance on the amount of pixels, everything from 3 or more is fair game to query a replacement depending on the positioning of the dead or stuck pixels, I've had different responses from different people at Applecare both UK and Germany.... and what people here have said that Apple have told them in the U.S. is very different to my experiences.

Remember though that firstly Apple do not manufacture the screens. So they have no control over production quality. These faults still affect PC's as well, my Sony TFT has a dead pixel... and some of the people I know that have PC laptops have similar things happening as Apple.

Secondly, that dead pixels or stuck pixels can happening in transit, or even if you turn the machine off one night, the next morning you could have a dead or stuck pixel, it's just the way TFT's are.....

In the quest of attaining perfect TFT displays inthe numbers required, then the cost would simply rocket through the roof, making this technology so expensive and inaccessible to anyone but the wealthy! just like a few years ago!!

G

mkubal
Apr 6, 2003, 11:07 AM
I've got two pixels on my 15" that are either dead or stuck. How can I tell if they are dead or stuck. I assume that I can try to massage them out if they are just stuck.

I'm also sure that someone has asked this before and someone is gonna get pissed at me for asking it again. Please don't hurt me.

Matt

iGav
Apr 6, 2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by mkubal
I've got two pixels on my 15" that are either dead or stuck. How can I tell if they are dead or stuck. I assume that I can try to massage them out if they are just stuck.

I'm also sure that someone has asked this before and someone is gonna get pissed at me for asking it again. Please don't hurt me.

Matt

Stuck will glow very brightly in either Red, Green, Blue...

Dead will be a darkish grey.

Stuck ones occasionally you can massaged out with a firm pressure from a finger with a soft cloth, so that they start to work again!

Dead ones are doomed!!

Hope that helps! ;)

agente
Apr 7, 2003, 01:42 PM
I've got 1 and a half dead pixels, 15" 1ghz powerbook, One comes and goes, and the other is stuck read, But its off to the right of the screen so it really doesn't annoy me. We've also got an older G3 powerbook here and it doesn't have a single dead pixel. I'm impressed considering how much that thing gets used.

Philoman
Apr 7, 2003, 03:38 PM
I also have a 3 Year old powerbook G3 Pismo without a single dead pixel. It seems like there are more pixels dead on the new Apple stuff than 3 years ago.

With this, I can say that Apple is cutting corners at our expense. The very people that support Apple's 3% market share. That is not the way to treat the customers that support and keep Apple going.

If this is really a manufacture defect, they would not turn-back the dis-satified customers with brand new Powerbooks with dead pixels on the center of the screen whether is one pixel or 5 pixels.

If they really cared about their customers, make them aware by providing them a notice/warning and/or clearly state a policy for LCD with dead pixles on new machines purchased. If they have nothing to hide and this is industry's common standard at this time, then they would be clear about and not create unhappy supporters of Apple!

Lastly, Apple community is different than the windows users. It's a culture and community of people that share a special bond and loyalty. If Apple want to break that bond with the end users, you can say good bye to Apple. Without that, Apple does not and will not continue. It wiil be treated like any other computer manufacture.

nanosound
Apr 7, 2003, 08:10 PM
I agree with you Philoman. Like I told Apple's Customer Relations, "If you or Steve got one of these machines, what would you do? Get it replaced in a second" The truth is, no one wants a machine like that. The fate of the draw.

I also have a G3 Pismo and no dead pixels. When I heard about dead pixels, I thought those came with use (or abuse) and simply burning out. So I am surprised about Apple's "in industry spec" argument for NEW products. Maybe the technology has taken a step backward? Let's see some real innovation in that dept.

iJon
Apr 7, 2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by nanosound
iJon:

I soke to several people at Apple. Believe me, I was not at all irate--I don't believe that approach works. I spoke to many people. They could empathize with me, but they all said it is within spec. Yeah, it sucks. It's just annoying that for all the money we pay, being a long-time Apple customer, that we get stuck with faulty components. Like I say, next time I'll pick one off the floor. No mail order. No more MacZone either and I will make sure my friends don't use them either.

Sedulous:

Yeah, we do pay a premium for the Apple brand. Ashame about their TFTs. I hope they truly "innovate" and use a better technology in the future.
guess it doesnt work for everyone, i know some people who have pulled it off. i will agree with you on mail order though, they suck.

iJon

nanosound
Apr 7, 2003, 10:47 PM
The genius who wrote up my case even made an effort of commenting on my "friendly demeanor". My next move is to talk to Steve at the local cafe.

Clark C
Apr 7, 2003, 11:50 PM
My monitor on my 867 Powerbook has 2 green pixels. Can I massage these out? Im really afraid I'll mess up the screen if I push on it.

Mr. MacPhisto
Apr 8, 2003, 10:17 AM
I've got a 12" iBook with no pixel problems. I also haven't had any battery problems since upgrading to 10.2.4. As with any product that is mass produced, there are going to be problems. However, chances are that a small minority of Apple users have problems. I have a friend who has a PB, a 17" cinema display, and a 15" iMac and has had no dead pixels on all three. As someone said, we're going to hear more from people that have problems above those who don't have any - and that makes perfect sense. If you have no problems you are content and don't feel the need to say much.

iGav
Apr 8, 2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by Clark C
My monitor on my 867 Powerbook has 2 green pixels. Can I massage these out? Im really afraid I'll mess up the screen if I push on it.

You can try, I suggest using a soft cloth, lint-free or somehing similar, and apply firm but not stupidly hard of course to the position of the stuck pixels and massage!

If you are lucky they will become unstuck, you may notice a slight flicker on the pixel. And if you are successful it may occasionally re-occur. Just do the same again.

However this doesn't always work.

But I wish you luck!! :)

Philoman
Apr 9, 2003, 03:30 PM
MacPhisto, this is not a small incidence!

If this was a small isolated incidence, Apple would not make this sort of policy otherwise. It's common enough to make "no return" policy to protect their losses for making a choice of low quality standard. So they can sell more to more pepople. This is a deliberate marketing strategy, MacPhisto.

It is a significant issue. i purchsed two 20 inch cinema displays and they both had missing pixels on the center of the screen. Also when i went to CompUSA, the display model also had missing pixels on their display. They opened a new box and the new one in out of the box had a missing pixels on the monitor.

I went to the Apple store and inquired and they said they could not guarantee my purchase if the disply had missing pixels.

If this was a isolated incidence, Apple would not make up the policy of no return or replacement on LCD with missing pixels. They will charge a 10% restocking fee on any returns, regardless.

If MacPhisto feels comfortable take a risk on a $2,000 - $3,000 dollar assest, on an equipment that you will use on a daily basis for 2+ years on your work, or dead pixles gazing for that matter, go right ahead. Who am I to argue.

Lastly, this thread has been read by many people and if people did not care about having dead pixels, this thread would be on the bottom of the list. No one wants to spend their hard earned money and have missing pixels for years to watch and remind them how Apple did not take are of their customers!

filipp
Apr 9, 2003, 04:50 PM
I dont think that Apple is any special on this. Every manufacturer has a special policy regarding replacing LCD screens with missing pixels, none will replace your screen if it has one or a few dead pixels. This pixel issue is actually a part of the technology of the production, which makes dead pixels common in production units regardless of what manufacturer it is.

So my point is that Apple is not unique in producing LCDs with dead pixels, ALL manufacturers do.

dubweiser
Apr 10, 2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
Regardless of what people say, Apple doesn't have a specific stance on the amount of pixels, everything from 3 or more is fair game to query a replacement depending on the positioning of the dead or stuck pixels, I've had different responses from different people at Applecare both UK and Germany.... and what people here have said that Apple have told them in the U.S. is very different to my experiences.

Remember though that firstly Apple do not manufacture the screens. So they have no control over production quality. These faults still affect PC's as well, my Sony TFT has a dead pixel... and some of the people I know that have PC laptops have similar things happening as Apple.

Secondly, that dead pixels or stuck pixels can happening in transit, or even if you turn the machine off one night, the next morning you could have a dead or stuck pixel, it's just the way TFT's are.....

In the quest of attaining perfect TFT displays inthe numbers required, then the cost would simply rocket through the roof, making this technology so expensive and inaccessible to anyone but the wealthy! just like a few years ago!!
G

iGav hit the nail on the head. Basically, what it boils down to is price. If Apple only purchased perfect displays, the price would be outrageous and everyone would complain.

This is a double edge sword for Apple. People complain for 1 burnt pixel, then if they only used perfect displays then everyone would complain about the cost.

If apple replaced every display with a burnt pixel, the prices of them would sky rocket.

I have a 17" 1ghz iMac, no burnt pixels. I have a 12" 700mhz (16vram) iBook with 1 burnt pixel. You just have to live with it. Would you rather pay $2700 for an imac with perfect display, or $1000 less with the chance of having a burnt pixel?

and for the guy who said "If you or Steve got one of these machines, what would you do? Get it replaced in a second". Steve would probably get a new machine only because he can. But rules are rules, and Apple doesnt bend them for their employees.

Philoman
Apr 10, 2003, 02:17 PM
OK, WITH CONSIDERATION FOR EVERYONE: for the manufacturer and the consumer, Apple store should note on the box or mention to the customers buying LCD related displys that "there could be pixels missing" And stating exactly how many is acceptable and not acceptable. And not telling the consumer, after the purchase of the products. That tactic seems sly.

that is all. as long as consumers are aware, it's the consumers to decision to buy or not. However, that is not the case here. And that is the main issue.

Consumers should know what they are getting for their money.

sososowhat
Apr 10, 2003, 02:46 PM
I bought a 20" the first day they hit the store. I asked about stuck pixels and the clerk assured me that they were "very rare".

Rare or not, I had one. I often use the display for viewing photographs, and even one stuck pixel made it unpleasant. It was a bright spot (looked like a star in the night sky).

I took the thing back to the Palo Alto store. The guy there explained that fewer than 5 pixels wasn't considered "defective". Because of my original conversation I managed, after several minutes of back & forth, to get them to exchange my display for one that had been returned (unopened) by another customer.

This one's perfect, and I love the display. However, if I hadn't gotten the exchange I would have been frustrated every time I pulled up a photo with darkness in that area. If this is a common problem, they should be more up front about it & preferably find some other technology or weed them out in QA or something.

sososowhat
Apr 10, 2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by dubweiser
iGav hit the nail on the head. Basically, what it boils down to is price. If Apple only purchased perfect displays, the price would be outrageous and everyone would complain.


Ok, depending on the incidence why not have the box marked with the number of bad pixels. They must already QA these things & could easily identify which are which.

Let's say 20% have some. Then charging 10% less for machines with bad pixels means you can provide guaranteed no-bad for 2.5% more, and Apple comes out even. People can choose their price point based on their sensitivity to the issue.

Original Price: $1000 (for easy math)
No bad pixels: $1025
Bad pixels: $900

dubweiser
Apr 10, 2003, 03:07 PM
Yeah that would be nice. But what you forget is that this can happen after they are boxed up. I used to work at CompUSA. Those boxes arent treated like glass. They are tossed around, bumped, moved, jostled, etc. So a display might be perfect when leaving the factory, but once it reached a customer living room, it could have a dead pixel.

iGav
Apr 10, 2003, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by dubweiser
Yeah that would be nice. But what you forget is that this can happen after they are boxed up. I used to work at CompUSA. Those boxes arent treated like glass. They are tossed around, bumped, moved, jostled, etc. So a display might be perfect when leaving the factory, but once it reached a customer living room, it could have a dead pixel.

Exactly..... dead or stuck pixels can just occur, you can literally turn off your PowerBook one night and it'll be fine.... turn it back on the next morning and you have a dead or a stuck pixel....

Dead and stuck pixels are just part of TFT displays... and it affects EVERY computer manufacturer.....

But I do agree that ALL companies should be forced to display a warning that TFT displays are prone to stuck and dead pixels!

iGav
Apr 11, 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by iGAV
Exactly..... dead or stuck pixels can just occur, you can literally turn off your PowerBook one night and it'll be fine.... turn it back on the next morning and you have a dead or a stuck pixel....


And to back up the argument above..... I switched my PowerBook on today, and hey presto I've got 7 dead pixels splattered all over the screen...... with 3 in a diagonal row in the centre of it.... :(

I'm ringing Apple on Monday morning.....

Philoman
Apr 11, 2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
Exactly..... dead or stuck pixels can just occur, you can literally turn off your PowerBook one night and it'll be fine.... turn it back on the next morning and you have a dead or a stuck pixel....

Dead and stuck pixels are just part of TFT displays... and it affects EVERY computer manufacturer.....

iGAV, regarding your last two comments, you stated that that is how it is, but once it happens to you, your disposition about this issue turns around.

You were aware that your computer could very well have dead pixels but you are not willing to accept the fate of your condition as well as your statement.

This is a perfect example, when it happens to you, you know the feeling of being screwed and hits home.

I am sorry that it has also affected you. Hope you are able to get another one. BUYERS, BE AWARE! GO TO A PLACE WHERE THEY WILL UNCODITIONALLY ACCEPT RETURNS IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED!

iGav
Apr 11, 2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Philoman
iGAV, regarding your last two comments, you stated that that is how it is, but once it happens to you, your disposition about this issue turns around.

You were aware that your computer could very well have dead pixels but you are not willing to accept the fate of your condition as well as your statement.

This is a perfect example, when it happens to you, you know the feeling of being screwed and hits home.

I am sorry that it has also affected you. Hope you are able to get another one. BUYERS, BE AWARE! GO TO A PLACE WHERE THEY WILL UNCODITIONALLY ACCEPT RETURNS IF YOU ARE NOT SATISFIED!

Did you actually read my post in page 2??? because it really doesn't appear that you did..... :rolleyes: So I'll go through my experiences with you in more detail, and hope that you can actually be bothered to read them this time!!

My previous PowerBook G4 suffered a similar fate.... at first it had a dead pixel, it was slightly annoying, I checked with Apple, I was told at the time that they only considered replacing after 3 pixels were either dead or stuck... they explained the manufacturing process, and the tolerances that the screen manfacturers put on them!

I can live with one dead pixel, that is not a problem, and many computer companies will not replace a screen if there is just one dead or stuck pixel.... for economic reasons this would be pretty bad, and the prices of TFT displays would rocket through the roof... simple as that!! And has been stated in this thread earlier.... that iBook/PowerBook/iMac G4 would become even more expensive as a result!!

After 6 months, that screen developed a serious screen fault, with some 50 stuck and dead pixels clustered in the centre of the screen like Elma Fudd had just fired his shotgun through it!! The screen was replaced under warranty with no problem.

The replacement screen had a dead pixel..... I CAN LIVE WITH A DEAD PIXEL..... I understand the problems of producing a perfect TFT screen! so I've had experience of this before..... I know that this affects every computer manufacturer!

I also had a dead pixel on my PowerBook G3 Pismo..... I CAN LIVE WITH THAT.... it's the tolerences of the company that produces them, and every single PC manufacturer in the world is affected by the same production limitations, whether it be Sony (I have a Sony TFT display as a second monitor that has a dead pixel, Sony will not replace it for just one dead pixel I checked!) or Dell or anyone.... And PC's do ship with TFT's that have a stuck or dead pixel here or there!

Now with my current PowerBook I've been lucky enough to have the perfect screen, no faults at all..... in one of the posts above, I elaborated on a previous post about dead pixels occuring either in transit or something as simple as switching your machine off one night, and returning to it the next morning, and as such you cannot expect Apple to QA every machine and expect that that machine will end up in the customers hands without a dead or stuck pixel! Because the logistics of shipping and handling and delivering can affect the condition of the machine outside of Apples control.

Now in one of my posts in page 2, I quite clearly explain my experience with Applecare regarding this subject.... and as such if I was sat here with my PowerBook and it had just 2/3 dead pixels then I know from previous Apple experience that I would not be considered for a replacement screen as it is within the tolerences I was told (other people have had different explanations from Apple, but I can only speak for myself) and as such I wouldn't have a problem with that and I'm really not going to waste my life worrying about it...

But because I have 7.... YES 7 dead pixels, over twice as many as I was told by Applecare UK and Germany before they would consider replacement then I am (and quite rightly so) going to call Apple and check to see whether this makes my PowerBook eligible for a replacement screen.

Now I don't doubt for one moment that there is a very real possibility of the replacement screen (if I am eligible for a replacment that is) having a dead or stuck pixel.... and as I said earlier, and is demonstrated through all my previous posts I CAN LIVE WITH THAT... it's part and parcel of every single TFT display produced that there is always a possibilty that there is going to be 1 or 2 iffy pixels.... that's the way it is, but when a fault is over the accepeted tolerences set by the manufacturer then of course I am going to push for a repair... :rolleyes:

So before you go off on one.... get your facts straight... :rolleyes:

Riko19
Apr 12, 2003, 08:47 AM
im scared to get a dead pixel on my screen i dont want one :( its not fair if i get one, when u fork out nery 3000 quid for a laptop pwerbook 17 incher one thing you dont want is a dead pixel.:(

my commiserations to ppl who have em...

MacsRgr8
Apr 12, 2003, 10:53 AM
I seems there are more dead/stuck pixels in the world than I thought.
I wonder what designers, think of that. If I were a pro in need of an excellent monitor, I would have thought choosing the 23" Cinema Display would fit my needs. Regarding the price, you would expect a perfect monitor. What if te salesman told you: "mind you, it's possible there are a couple of dead/stuck pixels on it.... and there's nothing you can do about it". I would ask him to show the monitor to me first before buying it. On account of how many malfunctioning pixels, I would do something about the price.
Or buy a CRT.

iGav
Apr 12, 2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
I seems there are more dead/stuck pixels in the world than I thought.
I wonder what designers, think of that. If I were a pro in need of an excellent monitor, I would have thought choosing the 23" Cinema Display would fit my needs. Regarding the price, you would expect a perfect monitor. What if te salesman told you: "mind you, it's possible there are a couple of dead/stuck pixels on it.... and there's nothing you can do about it". I would ask him to show the monitor to me first before buying it. On account of how many malfunctioning pixels, I would do something about the price.
Or buy a CRT.

I'm a designer..... and pretty much all of the TFT displays I've ever owned have had some kind of fault.... a couple of dead pixels really doesn't make much of a difference and in most cases are barely noticeable unless your really go hunting for them.....

Stuck pixels are another matter althogether, something glowing bright red, green or blue in a place that is distracting can be a real pain, and I totally understand why people get hacked off with stuck pixels, sometimes you can massage them out... othertimes you can't....

As for the price, well the other side of the argument would be that the current price allows for a certain number of faults.... if they were to produce a perfect TFT and sell it, on every single product that shipped then the price could easily double and more likely treble+!

The numbers of TFT screens that get destroyed because of the difficulty in the manufacturing process is huge...... the process simply does not produce a fault free screen everytime!

You can certainly ask to check the screen before you buy..... if it has a couple of dead or stuck pixels then the price is very, highly unlikely to be reduced, because in the eyes of the screen manufacturer, this is of an exceptable amount.

Remember though with a portable you'll only be able to check the screen that the Mac displays on startup but before the OS is installed, as the DVD that the software comes on is sealed, and no shop is going to break that seal just for some joe to check the screen out! And you can't always notice a dead or stuck pixel that easily without a selection of flat background colours in R,G,B, then Black and White and a shade of grey!

CRT's are still the best choice for repro and artwork tasks.... but they flicker.... they screw your eyes up, they suffer screen burn, aren't as bright and they even have their own share of glitches and faults.... such as horizontal lines.....

MacsRgr8
Apr 12, 2003, 12:47 PM
It seems that "computing problems" are moving from the computer hardware (speed) to display hardware (quality)....
I understand what you're saying and you're right. Trouble is, it's not fair. An uncle of mine has bought an iMac FlatPanel about a year ago, and suffers from 2 stuck pixels. One is red (in the centre, which is very annoying), and the second is green (somewhere on the right side, not too bad). The company I work for have bought dozens of the FlatPanel iMac's, hardly a dead/stuck pixel amoung them. Once you know it's there you can't take your eye off it! I feel for my uncle, and he asked me if this was common. I had to say it wasn't, and now he feels a bit unfairly dealt with. He knows he can't do anything about it.

iGav
Apr 12, 2003, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
It seems that "computing problems" are moving from the computer hardware (speed) to display hardware (quality)....
I understand what you're saying and you're right. Trouble is, it's not fair. An uncle of mine has bought an iMac FlatPanel about a year ago, and suffers from 2 stuck pixels. One is red (in the centre, which is very annoying), and the second is green (somewhere on the right side, not too bad). The company I work for have bought dozens of the FlatPanel iMac's, hardly a dead/stuck pixel amoung them. Once you know it's there you can't take your eye off it! I feel for my uncle, and he asked me if this was common. I had to say it wasn't, and now he feels a bit unfairly dealt with. He knows he can't do anything about it.

TFT's have always been abit of a nightmare.... even my old JVC DV cam had a stuck pixel.... it's just the luck of the draw, hopefully the manufacturing process for TFT's will improve over time, and the quality will become better....

I know people that have laptops and desktop TFT displays some have pixel problems others never experienced them in there life.... it's unfortunate but at the moment it's still not spot on.....

Rule of thumb though is don't inspect your screen too closely just incase..... because as you say once you've found one, it's very, very difficult to take your mind off it!! :)

MacsRgr8
Apr 12, 2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by iGAV
.... it's unfortunate but at the moment it's still not spot on.....


Nice one. :)
Everyone getting a TFT should not go pixel-hunting. It's like the first scratch on your new car.... Once you've noticed it, it's terrible to live with, but it doesn't influence the usability, really. :rolleyes:

iGav
Apr 13, 2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Nice one. :)
Everyone getting a TFT should not go pixel-hunting. It's like the first scratch on your new car.... Once you've noticed it, it's terrible to live with, but it doesn't influence the usability, really. :rolleyes:

Ha ha... you got that right... sometimes it's better not to look for problems on something!!

It'll be great when they can produce TFT's that are reliable, and cheaper!!

But given the choice of a dead or a stuck pixel.... I'd take the dead one everytime!! :eek: :p :p

Grokgod
Apr 13, 2003, 12:50 PM
I ahte stuck pixels, I have one of those personalites that refuses to lose!

I bought a Ti 800 and it arrived PERFECT!
I rolled the dice... and won.

I know that my time will come,
i want to upgrade to 1 ghz, but there is the
Stuck Pixel horror looming ahead.

I called a Apple store and asked if I can check out the laptop before I buy.

NOWAY, they said.
I said you mean to tell me that you want to sell me a computer that I can check out first for 3299$?

Your kidding, thats insane.

I was NOT going to do that under any circumstances.
I found a Apple reseller in my small town that will let me look at the screen before I buy it.
whew...

I had a friend that had a iMac that had a few stuck pixels and when I used it, it didnt bother me inthe least! Weird or not...~

if its someone elses I dont care.
but not mine, my life is marred enough..!

Riko19
May 1, 2003, 07:57 PM
well my fears have come alive, sell now im a switcher so yey to me. anyway yes it arrived today, but yes with one dead pixel noticed while just playing about, then lter on that night another pixel either appeared stuck, like a blue colour i tried with cloth and rubbing it a bit it did not go away, i only got this powerbook 17 incher today and im quite gutted and disapointed with it nw this has happened, will they give replacement powerbooks or just screens i got it from an authorised reseller, and they say they are flooded with orders right now, so what are the chances, do you think i go at the back of the que...it is a bitc.h:mad:

mstecker
May 1, 2003, 08:19 PM
I asked the other day at the Apple store SoHo whether they would let me "preview" a display. The short answer was "no", but the longer answer was that they were willing to:

- Let me buy one without looking.
- Let me take the just-purchased laptop up to their "workbench" room.
- Scan for bad pixels.
- If there was even one, they said that they would allow me to exchange the laptop without leaving the building.

Pretty close.

M.

QCassidy352
May 1, 2003, 08:31 PM
I just bought an ibook 14" at an apple store (king of prussia, PA). they would under no circumstances let me look at it before I bought it. It turned out to have one stuck pixel, bright green, right in the middle of the screen. Very annoying. I was able to massage it out though, and although it sometimes comes back, it can always be massaged away quickly. If you do massage a stuck pixel, I would add this to the other advice given: brace the back of the screen where the stuck pixel is with your other hand as you are rubbing. I was given this advice and it worked for me.

Even one stuck pixel, if situated poorly, can really be annoying.

Riko19
May 2, 2003, 04:05 PM
well im very happy with my purchase of my powerbook 17incher amazed by going to college and hearing its airport enabled, but only to 11mbps so duno how good that is yet...not tried it but college have 1000/base T so online games and fast downloads here i come baby! so are there like chat rooms been trying to use like i chat but cant find any frineds :( because i never used aol before :( oh well i just thought there may be like a chat powerbook site maybe possibly but i may be wrong:o

so if anyone has got this little powerbook come on how many times u been switching the lights on and off be honest

oh i found a blue pixel stuck but doesnt appear on top of the open windows seems strange but i dont know why it does this.

tried massagin it out but after powering down going bed waking up and next morning not there when on it .. hmmmnn strange but it dont bother me that much to replace it straight away seen as i am a neewbie to most mac technology all i know know is that sock in mouth because iknow mac is better than pc it runs so smooth its like watching melting ice cream its soo chilled out.....;)

pianojoe
May 2, 2003, 04:32 PM
I had/have

300 MHz Clamshell iBook
500 MHz iBook
600 MHz iBook
800 MHz iBook
867 MHz Powerbook

None of the above had a single dead pixel.

Philoman
May 2, 2003, 09:01 PM
pianojoe, the wide spread cases of dead pixles in LCD screen seems to be a recent issue. I also have a PowerBook Pismo and it has no dead pixels.

I would say that Apple has lower their production standard on the recent LCD products most commonly evident on their Cinema '20 Displays.

Almost every unit is shipped with dead pixels! No joke. This is an intentional marketing plan to sell more units at lower prices so they can compete with the market at the expense of consumers getting products with bunch of dead pixels.

Apple goes further by telling consumers as if they are doing a favor to the consumers that consumers are getting good deals for these units with dead pixels. It's the advancement in technology that should lowers pricing not selling unacceptable goods for less. Is Apple trying to set a new industry stand?!

If Apple was penalized $100 for every pixle found on their LCD products, they would go out of business.

I own apple stocks and I'm not proud to make a profit that way!

yzedf
May 3, 2003, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by MacsRgr8
I seems there are more dead/stuck pixels in the world than I thought.
I wonder what designers, think of that. If I were a pro in need of an excellent monitor, I would have thought choosing the 23" Cinema Display would fit my needs. Regarding the price, you would expect a perfect monitor. What if te salesman told you: "mind you, it's possible there are a couple of dead/stuck pixels on it.... and there's nothing you can do about it". I would ask him to show the monitor to me first before buying it. On account of how many malfunctioning pixels, I would do something about the price.
Or buy a CRT.
CRT with a high refresh rate. That is what most pro's use, and for good reason.

Rower_CPU
May 3, 2003, 02:53 AM
The way I see it there are really only two things keeping LCDs from killing off CRTs at this point:

-Refresh rate
-Color fidelity

I think we'll see LCDs that equal or better CRTs in these areas this year. I'm already all LCD and my eyes are thanking me for it. :)

Riko19
May 3, 2003, 09:06 AM
i agree to the extent of colour quality its very impressive on the macs latop screens, the viewing angles on these powerbook 17 inches are great.
look at it at a 45 degree angle and its still perfect doesnt do out of focus or white.



:)