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jfsouza
Sep 18, 2006, 08:08 PM
Hello everyone!
So here's my dilemna...
I have a 1st gen iMac G4 right now, and I've been waiting about a year or so to get a laptop. At first I didn't want a MacBook Pro because I wanted the 2nd Gen with Merom. I recently realized that a MacBook Pro with Merom would be more expensive than a regular black MacBook and I decided I'd rather have sort of a bare-bones Mac laptop and one of those new 24in. iMac powerhouses. So I've decided to buy a laptop soon and get one of the new iMac's in the spring of 07 when Leopard comes out. However, I can't decide what laptop I want. It's basically a standoff between this refurbished 12" PowerBook Apple has on the refurbished section of its store or a new black MacBook. The PowerBook is the last generation of its kind so it is (or was) top-of-the-line. Here are the specs:

- Apple Certified Refurbished PowerBook G4
- 12.1-inch TFT Display
- 1024x768 resolution
- 1.5GHz PowerPC G4
- 512MB DDR333 SDRAM
- 80GB Hard Drive
- Slot-load SuperDrive
- NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 (64MB DDR)
- Full size keyboard
- 10/100BASE-T Ethernet
- FireWire 400
- Analog audio in/out
- Mini-DVI out
- Trackpad scrolling capability
- AirPort Extreme
- Bluetooth 2.0 + Enhanced Data Rates
- Sudden Motion Sensor (SMS)
- two USB 2.0 ports
- Mini-DVI-to-VGA adapter
- 56K modem (v.92)
- $1,199

I've always liked the 12" PowerBook as it has a small footprint, is light as 4.6 pounds, and is made out of aluminum.

However, my father has a friend who works for Apple who can get a black MacBook for a base price of $1,270, which is a very attractive price. However, it seems like Apple will be updating it soon given the release of the Core 2 Duo processor, so I'd want to wait for the MacBook to be updated with that. It seems like such an update is right around the corner. But I really don't feel like waiting another month or so for it to be updated. It's not that I need a laptop right now for college but I'm just tired of waiting. I also prefer the feel of the PowerBook to the black MacBook and the G4 does have a dedicated graphics card.

So, what should I do? They're both about the same price. Should I get the G4 or wait till the end of September to see if the MacBook is updated or if Apple releases a smaller MacBook Pro?



Josephkyles
Sep 18, 2006, 08:18 PM
Thats funny I just sold that exact laptop, and then bought the 24 inch iMac. If I were you I would go with the Macbook. Although I would get the white rather than the black.

yoda13
Sep 18, 2006, 08:28 PM
I love my Powerbook. That being said, go with the MacBook, it is the future, which is Intel based. Its dual core and just all around faster. Plus you can easily upgrade the harddrive as you need to. That is what I would do, if I were you.

MovieCutter
Sep 18, 2006, 08:35 PM
MacBook, no question. It's futureproofed FAR better than the Powerbook.

jfsouza
Sep 18, 2006, 08:40 PM
MacBook, no question. It's futureproofed FAR better than the Powerbook.
That's true, but I'd have that 24in. iMac as well... I mean I'm not really in need of a laptop that acts as a full-on desktop replacement as I'll basically be using it for notetaking, music, and internet use.

imacintel
Sep 18, 2006, 08:43 PM
Go with the blackbook. Now. I can wait all day. GO BUY IT!

jfsouza
Sep 18, 2006, 08:53 PM
I just don't know - it's so mind boggling. I like the feel of the G4 a lot more. Yet I like the MacBook but I don't know if they're going to update it within the month to Merom and hopefully a dedicated graphics chip.

aristobrat
Sep 18, 2006, 08:55 PM
That's true, but I'd have that 24in. iMac as well... I mean I'm not really in need of a laptop that acts as a full-on desktop replacement as I'll basically be using it for notetaking, music, and internet use.
Sounds like your mind is made up. ;)

FWIW, as cool as the aluminum PB looks, the screen of the MacBooks are soooo much better and I doubt you'd notice any size/weight difference between the two.

The price difference between the two is $71. IMO, that either makes the PB very overpriced or the MacBook an extremely good deal.

If you're not wanting to pull the trigger on the MacBook because Core 2 Duo is right around the corner, why the heck would you pull the trigger (for basically the same amount of money) for a PB?

rtdgoldfish
Sep 18, 2006, 08:56 PM
I just don't know - it's so mind boggling. I like the feel of the G4 a lot more. Yet I like the MacBook but I don't know if they're going to update it within the month to Merom and hopefully a dedicated graphics chip.

Don't wait for the MacBook to get a dedicated graphics chip. The consumer laptops have never had one and odds are they never will.

I'd go with the MacBook, the Intel chips are so much better than the G4.

And the black MacBook is so sexy!!! :D

jfsouza
Sep 18, 2006, 08:58 PM
Sounds like your mind is made up. ;)

FWIW, as cool as the aluminum PB looks, the screen of the MacBooks are soooo much better and I doubt you'd notice any size/weight difference between the two.

The price difference between the two is $71. IMO, that either makes the PB very overpriced or the MacBook an extremely good deal.

If you're not wanting to pull the trigger on the MacBook because Core 2 Duo is right around the corner, why the heck would you pull the trigger (for basically the same amount of money) for a PB?

Well, im not paying for it hehehe... but i suppose i'll wait out September and see what Apple comes out with - I wish a 13" or 12" MacBook Pro was on the way.

coal
Sep 18, 2006, 09:07 PM
Let me get this straight: You're worried about an as-yet-unknown future upgrade to the Macbook line that would make the current Macbook a bit dated so instead of going with the up-to-date Macbook you're contemplating purchasing a Powerbook that hasn't been cutting edge for years now?

Go buy the Macbook. I have one and love it.

jfsouza
Sep 18, 2006, 09:14 PM
Let me get this straight: You're worried about an as-yet-unknown future upgrade to the Macbook line that would make the current Macbook a bit dated so instead of going with the up-to-date Macbook you're contemplating purchasing a Powerbook that hasn't been cutting edge for years now?

Go buy the Macbook. I have one and love it.

Well, I suppose that's true, though the PowerBook is not exactly slow by any means, and it is made of metal and has a preferable key layout (to me) at least.

jfsouza
Sep 18, 2006, 09:19 PM
I guess Sept. 25 is the next "event" Apple is holding... hopefully we'll see some MacBook updates there.

mac4matt
Sep 18, 2006, 10:01 PM
Yes, wait till Sept. 25th. Although the rumors are that the Macbook Pro will see Merom while the Macbooks will keep Yonah and get a speedboost. But who knows!

By the way, I love my Macbook. It runs quite cool, doesn't moo, pur, or moan, and the screen is very nice:)

bigrell486
Sep 18, 2006, 10:04 PM
I guess Sept. 25 is the next "event" Apple is holding... hopefully we'll see some MacBook updates there.

Even if there are updates, they will most likely only be to the pro line to differentiate them a little more from the consumer models

briantology
Sep 18, 2006, 10:06 PM
Well, I suppose that's true, though the PowerBook is not exactly slow by any means, and it is made of metal and has a preferable key layout (to me) at least.

I'm with you on this one. I'm debating what to get myself. 20" iMac and an iBook/PowerBook (I like aluminum waaay better), or a MBP. What I want to do is get the iMac and a 12" PowerBook that is around $700 or less.

Gizmotoy
Sep 18, 2006, 10:45 PM
I'm with you on this one. I'm debating what to get myself. 20" iMac and an iBook/PowerBook (I like aluminum waaay better), or a MBP. What I want to do is get the iMac and a 12" PowerBook that is around $700 or less.
I'm debating whether or not to sell my 12" PowerBook and was hoping to get around $700 or so. If you're interested...

xfiftyfour
Sep 18, 2006, 11:05 PM
Don't wait for the MacBook to get a dedicated graphics chip. The consumer laptops have never had one and odds are they never will.

That's not true. The old iBooks had dedicated graphics. That said, I don't expect the Macbooks to get 'em, but still.

To the OP: if you DO decide to go with the PB, don't buy it from Apple. You can get a much better deal buying it from someone used.. they don't go for anywhere near $1200 anymore - it would just be silly to pay Apple's refurb price, IMO.

praterkeith
Sep 18, 2006, 11:19 PM
That's not true. The old iBooks had dedicated graphics. That said, I don't expect the Macbooks to get 'em, but still.

To the OP: if you DO decide to go with the PB, don't buy it from Apple. You can get a much better deal buying it from someone used.. they don't go for anywhere near $1200 anymore - it would just be silly to pay Apple's refurb price, IMO.


I agree, get a used one. I did and LOVE It. You'll save so much money.

rtdgoldfish
Sep 19, 2006, 12:24 AM
That's not true. The old iBooks had dedicated graphics. That said, I don't expect the Macbooks to get 'em, but still.


Oh yeah, I'm dumb. Forgot that my old iBook had some sort of ATI chip in it :D

Still, I figure the integrated graphics card in a MacBook with enough RAM must be better than an older dedicated ATI one. (Which I think maxed out at 32mb, correct??) Anyone have any thoughts on that??

ZoomZoomZoom
Sep 19, 2006, 01:01 AM
Not sure why there are so many votes for the Blackbook.

The OP is looking for something nice, "bare-bones", and portable to complement a powerhouse 24'' iMac.

I use my 12'' PBG4 pretty heavily, and the processor doesn't get too taxed. If I had shelled out for a RAM upgrade, I'm sure that it would be running absolutely smooth right now.

12'' PBG4 has size and weight to its advantage. Aesthetically, it looks better, in my opinion and to the opinion of the OP. It has a dedicated graphics card. And it runs cool. I tried heating mine up once with as much intensive work as possible and I don't think I passed 60deg C.

I would say differently if the OP didn't havea 24'' iMac, but it's obvious that the laptop is supposed to be a portable computer to do light work. You do not need a C2D to do that. The only further consideration is dual-booting into Windows, but because the OP is even considering the PBG4, I'm assuming that it's not an issue.

FFTT
Sep 19, 2006, 01:17 AM
Since your new iMac will be Intel and most of your software will end up universal binary anyway, I'd go for the BlackBook.

Not to mention that you're going from a single G4 processor up to a 2.0 GHz dual
core processor, which is darn close to the set-up in my Pro G5 2.0 DP tower.

With no hesitation, add 1 GB RAM ASAP.

I'm setting up my daughter's new MacBook as we speak, it's a very nice machine.
Ther extra HD space in the BlackBook is very well worth it, since a lean install
of the OS still takes up just over 10 GB (Intel with iLife'06)

The extra screen real estate, brightness and quality are quite noticable over
our 12" iBook.

I do personally prefer the PowerBook's Keypad.

But single 1.5 GHz G4 vs. Core Duo 2.0 GHz Intel,
there's no question that the MacBook is a superior configuration for the money.

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 01:17 AM
Not sure why there are so many votes for the Blackbook.

The OP is looking for something nice, "bare-bones", and portable to complement a powerhouse 24'' iMac.

I use my 12'' PBG4 pretty heavily, and the processor doesn't get too taxed. If I had shelled out for a RAM upgrade, I'm sure that it would be running absolutely smooth right now.

12'' PBG4 has size and weight to its advantage. Aesthetically, it looks better, in my opinion and to the opinion of the OP. It has a dedicated graphics card. And it runs cool. I tried heating mine up once with as much intensive work as possible and I don't think I passed 60deg C.

I would say differently if the OP didn't havea 24'' iMac, but it's obvious that the laptop is supposed to be a portable computer to do light work. You do not need a C2D to do that. The only further consideration is dual-booting into Windows, but because the OP is even considering the PBG4, I'm assuming that it's not an issue.

Not sure what OP and C2D mean since I'm a newbie but oh well. Anyway, I do not have the 24" iMac yet but plan to get it in the spring of 07, with Leopard. Dual Booting would be nice, but basically the only reason I want it is so I can play RollerCoaster Tycoon again lol. And of course, I'd have that option on the new iMac. I like how the BlackBook has a widescreen which is nice for DVDs. And I believe the battery life is comparable on the two. I wish I could get it for less than $1,199 - especially that refurb one.

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 01:27 AM
The only thing that's keeping me from the BlackBook is the keyboard layout - it's just uncomfortable and I can't get used to it - one of my friends in my dorm has a white one and I just don't like it. Notetaking would be a far easier business with one of the aluminum keyboards. It's annoying how the keyboard is like almost recessed into the base of the MacBook.

FFTT
Sep 19, 2006, 01:45 AM
The "12 PB keypad does feel more natural to me as well.
I can't argue with you on that point.

The MacBook definitely has a No Food Or Drink keyboard.

Of couse, I use an Apple Pro External KB and 2 button Mouse anyway.

If Apple was selling refurb 12" PB's for $999.00 it would be a tough call.

generik
Sep 19, 2006, 01:46 AM
The only thing that's keeping me from the BlackBook is the keyboard layout - it's just uncomfortable and I can't get used to it - one of my friends in my dorm has a white one and I just don't like it. Notetaking would be a far easier business with one of the aluminum keyboards. It's annoying how the keyboard is like almost recessed into the base of the MacBook.

The keyboards are not aluminium, but really grey coloured plastic ;)

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 02:29 AM
I wonder what the probability of Apple introducing a smaller MacBook Pro is...

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 02:30 AM
The keyboards are not aluminium, but really grey coloured plastic ;)
No.... really?
perhaps aluminum coated plastic? lol

generik
Sep 19, 2006, 02:39 AM
No.... really?
perhaps aluminum coated plastic? lol

No, they really are plastic. I happen to know cos one of my keys broke off before.

Jimmieboy
Sep 19, 2006, 04:03 AM
My suggestion would be to get the 24" imac and then wait a while. It's possible that the price of the curretn macbooks will go down as well as the price of the powerbooks. That means you may be able to get a powerbook or the macbook at a lower price. Or get the new macbook(if any) when it arrives. Is it possible to wait a few weeks? Also I'd suggest getting the white macbook as you're paying more jsut for the color. Thats just my thoughts on the matter.

Maccus Aurelius
Sep 19, 2006, 12:50 PM
I wonder what the probability of Apple introducing a smaller MacBook Pro is...

Possibly none, since the macbook is pretty powerful, an aluminum coated macbook clone sounds interesting, but it sounds like more money with little else, unless of course it has a better graphics card.

xfiftyfour
Sep 19, 2006, 12:54 PM
I wonder what the probability of Apple introducing a smaller MacBook Pro is...
i doubt it. it'd be nice, but the way they have the lines, it seems they've (in their minds, anyway) eliminated the need for it. they put in the blackbook for those users that would have gotten the 12" PB (ultraportable but still professional looking).. and there's not such a gap between the performance of the Macbook and the MBP like there was when it was PB vs iBook. When it was that, I'd have never even considered an iBook.. now I have a MB and I'd never consider paying the extra for the MBP.

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 03:40 PM
does anyone know if front row came with the old PowerBook G4's or if it can be installed on them?

xfiftyfour
Sep 19, 2006, 03:42 PM
does anyone know if front row came with the old PowerBook G4's or if it can be installed on them?
it didn't come with them, no. it's for the intels with IR on them. there are hacks to get it installed, but legally, you're not supposed to use it.. thus, you'll have to do your own web-research to find instructions.

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 04:10 PM
Yeah I think I'm going to go for the BlackBook simply because it's got so much more punch for an almost equal price point to the PBook I was looking at. I'm going to wait till the 25th to see if it gets updated or not and if not then I might just go ahead and get one.

xfiftyfour
Sep 19, 2006, 04:29 PM
Yeah I think I'm going to go for the BlackBook simply because it's got so much more punch for an almost equal price point to the PBook I was looking at. I'm going to wait till the 25th to see if it gets updated or not and if not then I might just go ahead and get one.
good decision - i know i *love* mine!

ZoomZoomZoom
Sep 19, 2006, 04:58 PM
Not sure what OP and C2D mean since I'm a newbie but oh well. Anyway, I do not have the 24" iMac yet but plan to get it in the spring of 07, with Leopard. Dual Booting would be nice, but basically the only reason I want it is so I can play RollerCoaster Tycoon again lol. And of course, I'd have that option on the new iMac. I like how the BlackBook has a widescreen which is nice for DVDs. And I believe the battery life is comparable on the two. I wish I could get it for less than $1,199 - especially that refurb one.

OP = Original Poster
C2D = Core 2 Duo = Merom

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 05:21 PM
Hey does anyone know if I will be able to play old Mac games under Rosetta on the new MacBook? I'm specifically talking about Giants: Citizen Kabuto here - one of my favorite Mac games of all time. Any ideas?

RedTomato
Sep 19, 2006, 06:16 PM
Buy a second hand macbook?

(buy local and look at it before handing your money over)

I got my PB15 that way.

Kirbdog
Sep 19, 2006, 10:14 PM
I have a 12" Powerbook rev. D with all the hardware specs maxed out. If I could afford it I would trade up to a MacBook. I love my Powerbook but the difference in performance is so great and the price is so much less than what I paid for the PowerBook the the decision makes itself.
The PowerBook was officially outdated the day the Intel switch was annnounced.
That is just my 2 cents worth.

FFTT
Sep 19, 2006, 10:30 PM
The big advantage to the BlackBook is that extra hard drive space.

I just did a custom lean re-install of OS X on my daughter's new white MacBook 2.0 and found that the 60 GB HD is actually 55.89GB
The lean OS install was just over 10 GB because I kept Comic Life and the games.
So before you start installing any major applications, you've got roughly
44-45 GB HD space available on the stock HD.

If you plan to set up a Windows partition, that's going to need room too.

I would go for no less than an 80-100 GB HD if I had the option.

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 10:34 PM
Yeah, I'm going to get the BlackBook 2.0 with 1GB RAM and 100GB HD

FFTT
Sep 19, 2006, 10:48 PM
POIFECT! Nyuk Nyuk :D

Since you only have 2 RAM slots,
I would buy the extra RAM 3rd party which gets you started with 1.25 GB.

Apple does recommend running matched equal DIMMS to take advantage of
the system's dual-channel memory architecture, but you'll probably
add another 1 GB DIMM as soon as you get a chance anyway.

RAM prices are TERRIBLE right now with the back to school demand.

jfsouza
Sep 19, 2006, 11:09 PM
Should I get one now or wait and see if they're revised on the 25th?

FFTT
Sep 19, 2006, 11:35 PM
No one knows, we're all just guessing based on Intel's roadmap.

The MacBook could get an update next week or next month.
It's that iffy.

Apple might bump the MacBooks up to the 2.16 Yonah and only give the MBP's
the Meroms IF the Meroms are running cool enough to meet Apple's thermal
restrictions.

I bought my daughter's Macbook because it's a really nice machine for what she needs and I was in a time crunch for her birthday.

The BlackBook you configured will hold it's value well regardless of any upgrade.