DVD Studio Pro 2, Final Cut Pro 4 and Shake 3 - Announced!

[MacRumors]

Apple.com (http://www.apple.com) has updated and reflects three new software releases:

- DVD Studio Pro 2
- Final Cut Pro 4
- Shake 3

[From Win to Mac]

Can only be good news !

[iGav]

DVD Studio 2 looks especially promising..... :)

[janey]

i want my hands on shake :D :) ;) :p

[holy MAC!]

this is AWESOME
now digitial professionals MUST go mac>>>>>

is this the one rare time where apple releases on a Sunday????

[Class]

NAB, LAS VEGAS?April 6, 2003?Apple® today introduced Final Cut Pro® 4, a major upgrade of Apple?s Emmy award-winning editing software for film, HD, SD and DV. Packed with more than 300 new features, Final Cut Pro 4 introduces RT Extreme, for real-time composting and effects, powerful new interface customization tools, new high-quality 8- and 10-bit uncompressed formats and for the first time in an editing system costing less than $100,000, full 32-bit floating point per channel video processing. Final Cut Pro 4 also includes three completely new integrated applications?LiveType for advanced titling, Soundtrack for music creation and Compressor for full featured batch transcoding.

[Snowy_River]

Excellent. Though these aren't tools that I use, I'm really pleased to see Apple pushing forward in areas like these.

[Class]

NAB, LAS VEGAS?April 6, 2003?Apple® today announced DVD Studio Pro® 2, a completely new DVD authoring product, rebuilt from the ground up with a breakthrough user interface and packed with innovative features that redefine professional DVD authoring. With professionally designed and fully customizable templates, an innovative new menu editor, timeline-based track editing and a new world-class, software-based MPEG-2 encoder, DVD Studio Pro 2 is a must have application for every Final Cut Pro® editor, as well as any professional who creates DVDs for a living.

NAB, LAS VEGAS?April 6, 2003?Apple® today announced Shake® 3, the next generation of its industry-leading compositing and visual effects software. Shake 3 includes new Mac® OS X only features such as the Shake Qmaster network render management software and unlimited network rendering licenses which allow visual effects artists to easily distribute rendering tasks across a cluster of Apple?s Xserve? 1U rack servers or desktop Power Mac® G4 computers for maximum performance and efficiency. Shake 3 also includes new visual effects features available to Mac OS X, Linux and IRIX customers including motion-tracking and real-time broadcast preview.

[Freg3000]

Supercool. I really like the new integration between the revised logos. :)

[iGav]

Just reading the specs on Shake 3, not that I've used it, but I can certainly some things that'd make my life alittle easier!!

Would make good use of some XServes..... ;) :D

[iJon]

new interface for dsp 2 looks nice, may have to get back into that program.

iJon

[t^3]

Hmm...looks like FCP4 will be available in June and DSP2 in August. Yet another case of Apple announcing products way ahead of shipping...

[G4scott]

If you look at the tech specs for Shake, you'll notice something interesting...

http://www.apple.com/shake/specs.html

System Requirements
Mac OS

Power Mac G4 or PowerBook G4 with 800MHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor; or Xserve with 1GHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor


QuickTime 6.1 or later


256MB of RAM or more


1GB of available disk space for caching and temporary files


Graphics card with at least 32MB of video memory and OpenGL hardware acceleration


Display with 1280-by-1024-pixel resolution and 24-bit color


Three-button mouse

hmm... A three button mouse...

Shake is also available for Linux and Iris. Sorry guys, no windoze :cool:

[jholzner]

DVD Studio Pro isn't available until August but the others are on sale now. I wonder why Apple left emagic as it's own company instead of making Logic an Apple branded product? Anyone know?

[edit] okay, I guess FCP isn't available until june. Another question...why doesn't Apple sell shake and logic on their online store???

[RBMaraman]

Great news! I'm extremely excited to try out these great new products. Then I saw when they would be available:

Final Cut Pro 4 - Available in JUNE.
DVD Studio Pro 2 - Available in AUGUST.

I'm glad to see they announced the products, but I'm mad I would be able to get a copy of them for several months.

[rice_web]

The three-button mouse debate has raged already: Shake required a 3-button mouse long ago.

[Class]

I find it interesting that Cinema Tools is now included with FCP4 and the whole package is still only $999. All in all a very exciting release for serious videographers.

[LethalWolfe]

Looks like Cinema Tools is part of FCP now. Better audio mixing. audio creation software. Better title software. Improved Media Management. Loox like a winner as long as it's stable and everything worx as advertised.

when I get back from work I'll have to spend more time reading up on everything over there.


I figure I can save up enough money between now and August for FCP 4. I know it comes out in June but this will give the early adopters 2 months to find and fix the bugs. ;)


Lethal

[rice_web]

If there was any question before, it's been answered.

Apple is most definitely a software company.

[Silencio]

Talk about a buzzkill for Adobe Encore ($550)!

Both won't hit the street until the summer at least.

[iGav]

Originally posted by rice_web
If there was any question before, it's been answered.

Apple is most definitely a software company.

Errrrrrr.... and Hardware..... ;) :p :p

Definitely some serious goodies in these updates!!

[G4scott]

Originally posted by t^3
Hmm...looks like FCP4 will be available in June and DSP2 in August. Yet another case of Apple announcing products way ahead of shipping...

There was just a complaint in abother thread about how we never know about what Apple's doing ahead of time. Would you rather know that these programs will be available later on, or would you rather wait until the day before they're released to find out that Apple's making them?

Another cool feature of shake: Distributed rendering... I don't know if this was in the original application, but it seems interesting...

[Class]

Sidenote:

"Apple has also lowered the price of DVD Studio Pro 1.5 to $499 (US), and customers who purchase and register their copies of DVD Studio Pro 1.5 starting today can upgrade to DVD Studio Pro 2 for an Up-To-Date shipping and handling fee of $29.95 (US)"

You can atleast play with 1.5 for awhile instead of waiting till August if you dont already have FCP.

[holy MAC!]

what is with the rainbow eye?

kind of cliche and reminds me of the photoshop 7 logo

the requiement for shake requires quite a big display (Display with 1280-by-1024-pixel resolution and 24-bit color).....

does that mean you can't edit on a powerbook without an external display?

kind of suk for the 17 inch.... if you can't use shake on it's beautiful display.....

[G4scott]

Ah!!!

The distributed rendering uses Rendezvous!!! That's cool...

Only stuff this cool can come from Apple...

[iGav]

Originally posted by Silencio
Talk about a buzzkill for Adobe Encore ($550)!

Both won't hit the street until the summer at least.

Didn't notice that.... all good though!! ;)

But I hope Apple doesn't ****** Adobe off by too much!! :eek: :p :p

[Class]

No kididng. Check out this info about the Rendezvous rendering:

" Shake for Mac OS X uses Apple?s Rendezvous? networking technology to automatically identify available render nodes and clusters on a network while load balancing optimizes usage across each machine in the workflow. If one Xserve or Power Mac G4 goes offline, built-in fault tolerance allows Shake Qmaster to re-route tasks to other render nodes in the cluster, so the project gets done on time"

Definitely a time saving feature.

[fred_garvin]

System Requirements
Mac OS

Power Mac G4 or PowerBook G4 with 800MHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor; or Xserve with 1GHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor


QuickTime 6.1 or later


256MB of RAM or more


1GB of available disk space for caching and temporary files


Graphics card with at least 32MB of video memory and OpenGL hardware acceleration


Display with 1280-by-1024-pixel resolution and 24-bit color


Three-button mouse


Based on these requirements even a 17" PB user can only use the software with an external monitor. No PB has 1024 of vertical res.

[G4scott]

Also included with FCP4 are some other programs such as "Soundtrack" http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/soundtrack.html and "LiveType" http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/livetype.html

This is definately a big hit for all!

Edit: Forgot about "Compressor" http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/compressor.html

[ultrafiel]

Browsed over the Apple site, everything looks really cool! Sure I personally have no use for Shake, but could maybe get into DVDSP and FCP. Now there are some big differences to differenciate FCP from Final Cut Express. I was looking in my university bookstore and the edu discount for FCP is huge. It is only $299! Final Cut Express is only $50 less with the discount. With those prices I'd easily pay the $50 more for FCP 4 (assuming it has the same discount). I also like the design integration between the products. Good stuff all around. Now let loose with some new hardware and Apple should be racking in a lot of money.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jholzner
Another question...why doesn't Apple sell shake and logic on their online store???

Well, I don't know about Shake, but Logic 6 is available from the Apple Store (just click 'Buy Now'). It has a listed shipping time of 2 to 4 weeks...

As far as their not releasing much of this yet, at least the have an 'Up-To-Date' program in effect which states that anyone buying the older version now will automatically get the new version when it ships.

[ShaolinMiddleFinger]

Arrggghhhh! I gotta find some money for FCP4 & DVDSP4 now! Oh well, it seems like they did a really great job on the updates.

Apple seems to be scoring a lot lately!

Great job Apple!

[G4scott]

Check out "Compressor": http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/compressor.html

The UI is not the FCP UI, but it's not the brushed metal interface either. It's like brushed metal, except all grey...

I think I'm looking to this stuff too much, but it's all just so cool, and might give some insight into the future of Apple...

[iJon]

shake requires some hardcore s*** to sell. you have to have all this authorization to sell it and you actually have to go talk to a video authorized reseller to get it. its not something you just go buy. plus if you look it requires a annual manintence fee, whatever thats for.

iJon

[moby1]

DVD SP is fast becoming my favorite app' and now at $499 - with templates and align and a timeline - I can't wait to try this - and Compressor look great!

Much more of an upgrade than I expected!

[siberian]

Apple basically screwed those of us who use non superdrive equipped and non-superdrive capable machines by overpricing DVD Studio Pro for hobbiests and making iDVD unavailable to anyone who didn't buy a new machine.

This price reduction finally brings the promise of the DV revolution to _all_ mac users.

Hallelujah! Thanks Steve!

[jholzner]

I wish Apple would buy Maya. That would complete their lineup...I can't believe they haven't already...or maybe they've tried and couldn't get them to sell. Now all we need is a Logic Lite! I don't use any of these products but I'm still really excited for Apple. This is gonna be a great year and it's only April!!

[nuckinfutz]

Very nice indeed.

DVDSP is even better than what I thought. I like Encores interface but DVDSP 2.0 is even better. And cheapter.

FCP4- Wow. Built in CT, Build in Livetype(from Prismo).
Royalty Free Audio.
Audio Mixer with Audio Unit support
More RT functions.

Same price :D

FCP and DVDSP 2.0 are definitely in my future. Oh and Logic Audio too.

[moby1]

I just read the small print...DVDSP 2 update in August....:(

[iJon]

Originally posted by jholzner
I wish Apple would buy Maya. That would complete their lineup...I can't believe they haven't already...or maybe they've tried and couldn't get them to sell. Now all we need is a Logic Lite! I don't use any of these products but I'm still really excited for Apple. This is gonna be a great year and it's only April!!
logic express would be very nice. i know lots of people who like to record there own music and get into that stuff, just need a cheaper way to start off.

iJon

[jamilecrire]

Originally posted by RBMaraman
Great news! I'm extremely excited to try out these great new products. Then I saw when they would be available:

Final Cut Pro 4 - Available in JUNE.
DVD Studio Pro 2 - Available in AUGUST.

I'm glad to see they announced the products, but I'm mad I would be able to get a copy of them for several months.

First people bitch that Apple doesn't announce stuff ahead of time. Then they announce something and people bitch.

[G4scott]

Has anybody noticed that in some of the tour movies, the menu bar is not at the top of the desktop. It kinda floats over the desktop... Maybe a new feature of 10.3? Interesting...

[dricci]

Originally posted by G4scott
The UI is not the FCP UI, but it's not the brushed metal interface either. It's like brushed metal, except all grey...

Maybe this is a hint. Could this be the Aqua and Brushed metal replacements for 10.3? :confused:

[iGav]

Originally posted by moby1
I just read the small print...DVDSP 2 update in August....:(

It's not that far buddy....

DVD Studio Pro 1.5 doesn't become obsolete over night!!

Get planning those projects that can utilise the updates feature set of DVD SP 2!!

Wicled!! ;)

[nuckinfutz]

Originally posted by iJon
logic express would be very nice. i know lots of people who like to record there own music and get into that stuff, just need a cheaper way to start off.

iJon

There is. Emagic just announced Logic Gold which has alot of the new functionality of the Platinum version but not as many integrated effects and synths.

Shakes Unlimited Rendering Clients is going to sell a lot of the new Xserve Cluster Nodes.

Nice to see Rendezvous added to such a high level application. Apple's definitely driving Hardware sales.

Wow FCP4 looks good. If it's stable as it should be it's another homerun for Apple.

[EponymousCow]

Originally posted by iJon
shake requires some hardcore s*** to sell. you have to have all this authorization to sell it and you actually have to go talk to a video authorized reseller to get it. its not something you just go buy. plus if you look it requires a annual manintence fee, whatever thats for.

iJon

It is not clear, but I think only the Linux and IRIX versions require the annual fee. It is a holdover from the pricing model Nothing Real used.

When Apple bought Nothing Real (the makers of Shake), they came out with a MacOS X version at half the price with no annual fee. It is as much a way to sell Apple hardware as anything. In fact, I think Apple offered to let Shake licence owners convert every one of their licences into 2 MacOS X licences.

The fact that the new version includes an unlimited render farm licence for MacOS X seems like a way to sell XServe Cluster Nodes. The fact that it uses Rendezvous to discover and configure nodes is just cool. I hope Apple makes that capability available via an SDK for other software to use.

[Wonder Boy]

Could 3-button mice be standard with all new powermacs?

[iGav]

Originally posted by dricci
Maybe this is a hint. Could this be the Aqua and Brushed metal replacements for 10.3? :confused:

Possibly, but doubtful.... the dark grey has been in PC and Discreet products for a long, long time.... Dark grey was also the colour of the Next OS....

[iGav]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
Could 3-button mice be standard with all new powermacs?

No..... :p

Shakes a specialist app that requires it... OSX doesn't!!

Option maybe!! ;)

[iJon]

jeez, i keep getting hammered with mis information, there is a lower end version on logic and the shake things, thanks for clearing me up guys.

iJon

[dricci]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
Could 3-button mice be standard with all new powermacs?

NO

A 3 button mouse has been the requirement for this product long before Apple aquired it.

[MacsRgr8]

Seen the hardware requirements for Final Cut Pro 4? A 350 MHz G4... also AGP required.
Is there a 350 MHz G4 with AGP? Don't think so.
Why not just state: AGP equipped G4 with DVD ROM.

Whatever!

It's looking BRILLIANT! :cool:

[jelloshotsrule]

dvd sp 2 and the compressor really look like the two top features for my uses...

batch compression through something more reliable (assuming) than cleaner would be great....

looking good.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by dricci
NO

A 3 button mouse has been the requirement for this product long before Apple aquired it.

i'm not sure how that answers his question.....

what i'd say is that shake has always required a 3 button mouse, even before this version. so when they released shake for mac earlier, they would've probably made 3 button mouse standard then, if they were going to make such a move

anyone who uses shake or maya or other 3 button requiring apps can certainly deal with buying their own 3 button mouse. and i would guess most would buy their own even if apple gave them one, as they'd want theirs to be whichever one they like best, not all wanting the same one...

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by iGAV
No..... :p

Shakes a specialist app that requires it... OSX doesn't!!

Option maybe!! ;)

Thanks iGav.

Also, I didn't notice firewire 800 support. Did I miss something?

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
A 350 MHz G4... also AGP required.
Is there a 350 MHz G4 with AGP?

Actually there is. When Apple first announced the PowerMac G4 it was 400/450/500, but production problems forced them to revise the lineup to 350/400/450, with the 350 as the Yikes! model (PCI video). Eventually Apple replaced the PCI Video with AGP video, but that was before they upped the PowerMac G4 back to 400/450/500 models.

[Awimoway]

Originally posted by G4scott
The UI is not the FCP UI, but it's not the brushed metal interface either. It's like brushed metal, except all grey...

I think I'm looking to this stuff too much, but it's all just so cool, and might give some insight into the future of Apple...

Ick. That UI looks like three steps backward. Hello to Windows 2000. If this is what all the complaining about brushed metal gets us, I wished we'd kept our yaps shut.

[RBMaraman]

Originally posted by jamilecrire
First people bitch that Apple doesn't announce stuff ahead of time. Then they announce something and people bitch.

Dude, I wasn't bitching. If you had read my post, you would have noticed how excited I am that Apple announced these fine new products. As for my comment about the release dates, I should have elaborated. I'm working on a comprehensive documentary this summer, and it would be great to have all the software by June. Just calm down, dude.

Now, to get back on topic....

Does anyone know what the Maintenence fee for Shake is for? Does Apple have to physically check your equipment to make sure it's running the software properly?

[EponymousCow]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
Also, I didn't notice firewire 800 support. Did I miss something? [/B]

I supect FW 800 support has more to do with cameras that use FW 800 than anything else. I don't think the FW SDK interface gives any clue what speed it is operating at. That is for the host controller to handle.

So for FCP to support a FW800 camera would only require a driver for the camera. FCP wouldn't need to know anything about the speed of the bus.

Are there any cameras out there with FW800?

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Seen the hardware requirements for Final Cut Pro 4? A 350 MHz G4... also AGP required.
Is there a 350 MHz G4 with AGP? Don't think so.


Actually there is. Here:

http://www.apple-history.com/frames/body.php?page=gallery&model=g4agp

[iGav]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
Thanks iGav.

Also, I didn't notice firewire 800 support. Did I miss something?

But a Apple 3 button mouse would be cool wouldn't it!! :D

[rice_web]

Originally posted by G4scott
Has anybody noticed that in some of the tour movies, the menu bar is not at the top of the desktop. It kinda floats over the desktop... Maybe a new feature of 10.3? Interesting...

Great find, I'm surprised nobody's commented on it yet.

Honestly, I don't know. However, remember the floating dock items? This wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[liloconf]

Has anyone else thought it odd that dsp 2 isn't comming out till august? Maybe becuase they want to include it in Ilife when they start selling 970's? :)

[Doctor Q]

At a Final Cut Pro seminar I attended, Apple techies recommended that anyone serious about using FCP get a third-party multi-button mouse. I think that Apple has not seemed interested in pushing their own multi-button mouse because it would go against their "simplicity" goals. I think they'd rather let those who crave convenience over simplicity upgrade mice on their own.

[jholzner]

Originally posted by liloconf
Has anyone else thought it odd that dsp 2 isn't comming out till august? Maybe becuase they want to include it in Ilife when they start selling 970's? :)

DVD Studio Pro is a professional App. iDVD is already included with iLife so I doubt they'd at a 500 dollar app. to a consumer oriented bundle. I thought that maybe they'll have great new hardware with some awsome hardware based dvd encoding in August to use with DSP 2. Ugh, can't wait to find out. I feel like I'm wishing my life away...aways wishing it were the future.

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by G4scott
Has anybody noticed that in some of the tour movies, the menu bar is not at the top of the desktop. It kinda floats over the desktop... Maybe a new feature of 10.3? Interesting...

But you'll notice that the Finder icons don't go outside of the area implied by the menu bar either, so I'm inclined to think that they just used FCP to expand the background out for their movies. Probably an asthetic decision.

[vniow]

Originally posted by dricci
Maybe this is a hint. Could this be the Aqua and Brushed metal replacements for 10.3? :confused:


Don't know, its quite nice actually, very professional compared to that tacky brushed metal crap.

[Doctor Q]

Academic pricing (school/teacher/student):

$150/$250/$250 Final Cut Express ($300 non-academic)

$300/$300/$300 Final Cut Pro 3 Academic ($1000 non-academic)

----/$400/$400 Final Cut Pro 4.0 Upgrade ($400 non-academic)

$300/$500/$500 Final Cut Pro 4.0 Academic ($1000 non-academic)

[seamuskrat]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Seen the hardware requirements for Final Cut Pro 4? A 350 MHz G4... also AGP required.
Is there a 350 MHz G4 with AGP? Don't think so.
Why not just state: AGP equipped G4 with DVD ROM.

Whatever!

It's looking BRILLIANT! :cool: Actually the first gen of Sawtooth G4 had AGP and a 350 G4. I know, cause it was my first G4!

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
But you'll notice that the Finder icons don't go outside of the area implied by the menu bar either, so I'm inclined to think that they just used FCP to expand the background out for their movies. Probably an asthetic decision.

You are probably right about that, but did you notice that the Apple from the Apple Menu is grey/silver in the DVD Studio Pro screenshot?

http://www.apple.com/dvdstudiopro/newversion/

Welcome back themes??? Maybe.

P.S. I don't know how to include a picture in this post, so the link is the best I can do.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Freg3000
You are probably right about that, but did you notice that the Apple from the Apple Menu is grey/silver in the DVD Studio Pro screenshot?

http://www.apple.com/dvdstudiopro/newversion/

Welcome back themes??? Maybe.

P.S. I don't know how to include a picture in this post, so the link is the best I can do.

you can already change the color from aqua from graphite........ i think that's all that is....

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
you can already change the color from aqua from graphite........ i think that's all that is....

Really, I didn't know you could do that. Can you tell me how; a blue aqua apple gets old after a few months.

[iJon]

Originally posted by Freg3000
Really, I didn't know you could do that. Can you tell me how; a blue aqua apple gets old after a few months.
go to system prefs, then click on general.

iJon

[evanmarx]

Originally posted by siberian
Apple basically screwed those of us who use non superdrive equipped and non-superdrive capable machines by overpricing DVD Studio Pro for hobbiests and making iDVD unavailable to anyone who didn't buy a new machine.

This price reduction finally brings the promise of the DV revolution to _all_ mac users.

Hallelujah! Thanks Steve!

yeah, but apple has still got to learn currency cenversion in europe. they actually ask for 1799.- Swiss Francs CHF for DVDSP 2!! But with the current currency exchange this makes 678.65 CHF (499$ * 1.36$/CHF).

For that pricetag i can fly firstclass to new york and buy that thing overseas!! come on!:mad: :confused:

btw. i love DVDSP ... that's why i'm so disappointed

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by iJon
go to system prefs, then click on general.

iJon

Wow, I am dumb. :) Thanks.

[Stike]

Originally posted by evanmarx
yeah, but apple has still got to learn currency cenversion in europe. they actually ask for 1799.- Swiss Francs CHF for DVDSP 2!! But with the current currency exchange this makes 678.65 CHF (499$ * 1.36$/CHF).

For that pricetag i can fly firstclass to new york and buy that thing overseas!! come on!:mad: :confused:

btw. i love DVDSP ... that's why i'm so disappointed

The price has dramatically changed from 1.5 to Version 2. I think this is the reason. Wait for the thing being available for order in switzerland and you will most probably see a REAL price reduction.

Edit: Same here in germany: Old price tag for DVD Studio 1.5: 1,330 Euro (!!!)

[kishba]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
Seen the hardware requirements for Final Cut Pro 4? A 350 MHz G4... also AGP required.
Is there a 350 MHz G4 with AGP? Don't think so.
Why not just state: AGP equipped G4 with DVD ROM.

Whatever!

It's looking BRILLIANT! :cool:

my 350 G4 has agp.... it's arn's old one

i wish people would stop spouting off misinformation. go look at apple tech documents before posting!

[erik1975]

I'm surprised no one else has found this yet.

Under the Apple Software section in the online store:

Final Cut Pro 4.0 Upgrade from Final Cut Express
$699.00


Did they have this kind of deal before? It's good to know that if Express makes you curious enough, you aren't out $300 when you buy the full version.

[G4scott]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
But you'll notice that the Finder icons don't go outside of the area implied by the menu bar either, so I'm inclined to think that they just used FCP to expand the background out for their movies. Probably an asthetic decision.

I noticed that too, but the desktop picture goes outside it.


I just found something that's totally killer in Soundtrack. You can get all the loops inlcluded, or ad your own, but they all sync together automatically. They match the BPM, can change the key, or do whatever you need them to do. You can get different loops from different instruments in different keys, put them together, choose a tempo, and bam! It works. You can change the tempo and keep the pitch the same. It's all easy to use, and works beautifully.

I want FCP4, and I don't even have a camera :D

[danman]

I realise that FCP has always had a very custom look to it (ie not standard OSX widgets), but I do notice some changes in the screenshots we can see that just _might_ be pointing to wider scale changes to Aqua.

To be hoonest, I would welcome these changes.. things are tighter, buttons/widgets are not as decorative (and so don't get in the way of the content you are working on) and it all just seems a hell of a lot easier on the eye.

And hey.. FCP available in June.. hmm very timely to coincide with possible new 970 driven towers don'tcha think???

[Mr. Anderson]

I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on FCP4, it looks to be a much nicer and more complete DVE software. And the audio track mixing is the one thing I really have been wanting....

But what really gets me is that they kept the price the same, that's fantastic! With FinalCut Express coming out earlier, I fully expected to see FCP4 with a $2k or so price tag.

Nicely done Apple.

D :D

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by erik1975
I'm surprised no one else has found this yet.

Under the Apple Software section in the online store:

Final Cut Pro 4.0 Upgrade from Final Cut Express
$699.00


Did they have this kind of deal before? It's good to know that if Express makes you curious enough, you aren't out $300 when you buy the full version.

Yeah, this is cool. Picture this:

Joe-consumer buys a Mac to make simple home movies using iMove. He loves it, but soon he discovers that he he wants to add some pro featues that are available in Final Cut Express. He buys FCE because it is basically FCP without some truly pro featues.

Now since FCP4 has been announced, this newly aspiring film editor is all over it....and Apple saves you the $300 that you already spent on FCE!

Cool.

[mymemory]

You see, they re-design the DVD Studio Pro interface! If you want Apple to do something for you just tell me and I post it:D .

Now, I didn't know anything about the third software, I just have to pay attenion but it feels so good to have such good things to dream about:rolleyes:

[G4scott]

OK, here are some of my thoughts on all that has been released today.

FCP4 is a bargain!

add it together:
FCP3- $999
Cinema Tools- $999
Soundtrack- (at least $100)
Live Type- (not sure, but it could be compared to other video text applications)

And the fact that all of this is integrated together with tons of new features makes this one heck of a deal. Digital video just got a whole lot better.

The delayed release dates make me wonder about future hardware and software releases. It also makes me wonder if Apple will release special digital video hardware or a Mac OS X DV edition. Something that caters to the need of high end DV producers. It could be an expansion of the current Mac OS X or even 10.3 (kind of like the way Mac OS X server is). Because of Apple's overwhelming presence in the DV market, a move like that wouldn't the least bit surprise me. Apple is targeting high end DV producers, and a special edition of the OS with added features only DV people would use, and special hardware designed specifically for DV use would make Apple an even more attractive DV option.

The funny thing about all of this stuff is that it's going to take forever to review. There are so many uesful features and functions that you'll probably find something new every day you use it until they release an upgrade.

Apple is the clear leader in digital video, no question about it. Now they need to have a special DV edition OS and a special computer for DV use, and that would seal the deal. Nothing would stand a chance. The only thing that's missing is the 3d animation, but that takes quite a bit more than Apple can currently offer.

I just hope that more of these features find their way into more consumer oriented apps, or even the iApps.

Good job Apple. Keep up the good work!

[crazytom]

I just got the upgrade to FCP last fall, plus DVD Studio Pro (new). Now's it's going to cost me 80% of purchase price to upgrade FCP again?!?!?
There's no word about the price to upgrade DVDSP, hell I could purchase another license and the $30 upgrade for less than I originally paid for it??? WTF?!?!?! No 'loyalty bonus'?

I'm going to have to think long and hard if this upgrade is going to be worth it.

[nagromme]

Regarding the extended desktop and floating menu in those movies: you can tell someone manually created extra desktop: look at all the swoosh lines near the edges, they all get weird beyond the confined of the menu/icon region in the middle--and they all go further than the real image goes. If the menu bar were REALLY floating, the normal desktop would just be scaled to fill the screen as always--no need to create any "extra" swoosh graphics manually.

As to WHY someone made a larger backdrop, creating an exra border for the video and making the real content smaller and less readable... you've got me. I'm guessing someone made a weird and dire mistake in preparing those movies, and made an even weirder custom solution to work around it. I wouldn't be surprised if the movies are re-done "right" later, unless Apple decided it's not worth the bother.

(P.S. I hope the dirty grey look doesn't spread into the OS--even Metal is better--but I'm not worried: Apple seems willing to keep non-standard UIs for certain pro apps, and I think that's all we're seeing. Maybe Apple is slowly migrating them towards Aqua or Metal--but current users know what they know, so I can see not making changes too quickly.)

[arn]

Let's hope Apple can back these releases up with some new hardware in the future.

Though - the rendezvous Shake distributed processing is quite cool...

arn

[Classic]

* 60GB of available hard disk space for installing applications
* 20GB of available hard disk space for installing LiveType and Soundtrack content


Is it me, or is that a huge ammount of disk space needed for an application?

[G4scott]

Originally posted by arn
Let's hope Apple can back these releases up with some new hardware in the future.

Though - the rendezvous Shake distributed processing is quite cool...

arn

You said it.

Apple is certainly headed somewhere with all of these software apps, and the only thing left to do is come out with new hardware.

I'm waiting :D

[Rincewind42]

Originally posted by G4scott
I noticed that too, but the desktop picture goes outside it.


I agree, but it is fairly trivial to do that as a post capture edit. Just set the background to center and make sure that it is actually larger than the screen before you start capturing the movie :).

As for another post that talks about UI changes - all they did was capture everything while the system was set to Graphite instead of Blue. No big fancy tricks here. I doubt that they'd be capturing anything on 10.3 anyway - after all, developers aren't even supposed to be getting their preview version until June and an OS 3 months prior to developer preview is typically a ghasty thing indeed :D.

[TylerL]

Originally posted by Rincewind42
I agree, but it is fairly trivial to do that as a post capture edit. Just set the background to center and make sure that it is actually larger than the screen before you start capturing the movie :).
It seems like these tutorial videos were made with TV viewing in mind.
Moving the menubar from the top of the imagespace keeps it in the TV-Safe area.

[arn]

Originally posted by TylerL
It seems like these tutorial videos were made with TV viewing in mind.
Moving the menubar from the top of the imagespace keeps it in the TV-Safe area.

ah... very good point. Perhaps these will be included on a DVD with the software...

arn

[748s]

Originally posted by Classic
* 60GB of available hard disk space for installing applications
* 20GB of available hard disk space for installing LiveType and Soundtrack content


Is it me, or is that a huge ammount of disk space needed for an application?

you also need a dvd drive. it comes only on dvd's.


Originally posted by rice_web
If there was any question before, it's been answered.

Apple is most definitely a software company.

i think it proves they are a hardware company. the apple apps are leverage for hardware sales.

[hanumang]

Originally posted by Classic
* 60GB of available hard disk space for installing applications
* 20GB of available hard disk space for installing LiveType and Soundtrack content


Is it me, or is that a huge ammount of disk space needed for an application?

Well, according to the Apple Store's FCP 4 Upgrade page (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9039Z/A), these are the system requirements:


Macintosh computer with a PowerPC G4 and AGP graphics card:
* 500MHz or faster single processor or any dual processor Power Mac G4 or PowerBook G4 required for RT Extreme and Soundtrack.
* 667 MHz or faster PowerBook G4 required for RT Extreme in DV format.
QuickTime 6.1
384MB of RAM (512MB recommended for RT Extreme and Soundtrack).
1GB available disk space required for application installation.
14GB available disk space for required for Soundtrack and LiveType content.
DVD drive required for installation.


That seems a bit more likely. 60GB just for the application files seems out-of-this world! :eek:

[Wonder Boy]

How long till we see manuals and books for FCP 4?

[748s]

Originally posted by hanumang
Well, according to the Apple Store's FCP 4 Upgrade page (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9039Z/A), these are the system requirements:


1GB available disk space required for application installation.
14GB available disk space for required for Soundtrack and LiveType content.
DVD drive required for installation.


That seems a bit more likely. 60GB just for the application files seems out-of-this world! :eek:


apple have just changed the 60gb plus 20gb specs.
luckily it was just a typo.

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by G4scott
There was just a complaint in abother thread about how we never know about what Apple's doing ahead of time. Would you rather know that these programs will be available later on, or would you rather wait until the day before they're released to find out that Apple's making them?


It depends. The market Apple is in can be different from other markets, such as games. I've known Doom 3 has been in the works for awhile, but it doesn't make me want to go and buy Doom 2 and feel I got the same use out of it. Sort of like movies, even. Just because I saw Superman I, doesn't mean it will be the same as Superman II.

With hardware and software, though, if they announce a new product TOO early, it might kill their sales for the time being. If Apple announces a great new Powermac, but it is still 3 months down the line, I just might wait 3 months so I can get even more power for a similar price to what I could pay now.

But if a company comes out with a great new Killer App X, and no one else has made or seen anything like it, then it might be of some interest to announce it a little before it has come out, but not too far ahead, or someone else might steal the idea and make their own hacked version of the product (not like we know any company who would do such a thing, mind you, *cough, cough*).

I fully support Apple into working more in the software field...hey, look how rich it made Microsoft. BUT, my biggest complaint is that they need to make sure they don't spread themselves too thin, or they will not be able to put the proper amount of energy and focus into each of their products. Look at Microsoft...I wouldn't really consider any of their apps as the leader in their field for innovation or just because they are that good...Microsoft has spread itself out way too thinly, trying to make an OS, a browser, an Office suite, a game console, a news network, an ISP, an IM, a server....need I continue? They just can't be everything to everyone, as much as they would love to snatch up that last fleeting 10% (or so) of the market who has deviated away from them. So, as long as Apple can make a few, but amazing, software products, and not try and kill the third parties in the process, I'm up for that.

I also noticed how the eye seems to have that Photoshop 7 feel to it, but I especially liked the little color-wheel representation they did. Kind of clever. Sort of. A bit...a bit....but she has got a wart....

[crazytom]

Originally posted by edenwaith

But if a company comes out with a great new Killer App X, and no one else has made or seen anything like it, then it might be of some interest to announce it a little before it has come out, but not too far ahead, or someone else might steal the idea and make their own hacked version of the product (not like we know any company who would do such a thing, mind you, *cough, cough*).


It also allows the company of said 'Killer App X' to stick it to you for upgrades. (Yes, I'm bitter about this.) I would feel a little better if Apple would stagger their upgrade pricing...right now, user A, who bought FCP 1 can upgrade to 4 for the same amount of money as User B, who bought FCP 1, paid for upgrade to 2, and paid for an upgrade to 3. User A has spent $1400, while User B has spent $2200.

I guess I'll just deal with it and wait for FCP 6 until I upgrade. Otherwise, it's a great deal if you're just getting into video. It's nice that they cut the price of DVD SP in half...that adds a little vaseline to the whole process.

[Class]

Not exactly an Apple product, but Maya has been upgraded to version 5. With Shake and Maya complementing each other so well its worth noting. Also, there is a special offer if I recall about purchasing the two together...

Maya 5 press release:
http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline.cgi?bw.040603/230965024&ticker=SGI

::Class::

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by crazytom
It also allows the company of said 'Killer App X' to stick it to you for upgrades. (Yes, I'm bitter about this.) I would feel a little better if Apple would stagger their upgrade pricing...right now, user A, who bought FCP 1 can upgrade to 4 for the same amount of money as User B, who bought FCP 1, paid for upgrade to 2, and paid for an upgrade to 3. User A has spent $1400, while User B has spent $2200.

I guess I'll just deal with it and wait for FCP 6 until I upgrade. Otherwise, it's a great deal if you're just getting into video. It's nice that they cut the price of DVD SP in half...that adds a little vaseline to the whole process. Even though I'm a "user A" person, I don't have a problem with it. In fact, I'm glas they anounced it a couple months ahead of time. Now I can start saving up for it. I'm a little surprised that the educational upgrade price has no discount on it at all. (Especialy since this is the first FCP upgrade where I would qualify for it!)

[crazytom]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Even though I'm a "user A" person, I don't have a problem with it. In fact, I'm glas they anounced it a couple months ahead of time. Now I can start saving up for it. I'm a little surprised that the educational upgrade price has no discount on it at all. (Especialy since this is the first FCP upgrade where I would qualify for it!)

I envy you. "User A" gets through this one smelling like a rose! If you're coming from FCP 1, you are going to LOVE FCP 4!!! It's a whole new monster.

There's some grumbling appearing on Apple's forums about the upgrade pricing, too.

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by 748s
apple have just changed the 60gb plus 20gb specs.
luckily it was just a typo.

Good thing, I suppose. I also saw the 60 GB size, so I just assumed that is what the PRO machines are for...to be able to afford having 60 GB to spend. Ugh. My two combined hard drives in my powermac total up to around 35 GB, and I still have well over 14 GB left.

[edenwaith]

Originally posted by crazytom
It also allows the company of said 'Killer App X' to stick it to you for upgrades. (Yes, I'm bitter about this.) I would feel a little better if Apple would stagger their upgrade pricing...right now, user A, who bought FCP 1 can upgrade to 4 for the same amount of money as User B, who bought FCP 1, paid for upgrade to 2, and paid for an upgrade to 3. User A has spent $1400, while User B has spent $2200.


I can see your point. The product that I'm getting irked with is Virtual PC. I originally bought VPC version 2 for DOS for around $50. Then I upgraded to VPC 3 since it had better support for DOS games (one of the primary reasons I use VPC). Now the upgrade price for VPC 6 for DOS is nearly as much as the full application itself...now that is just ridiculous...and even worse how much the app is costing now.

But it also depends how useful an upgrade can be to the user. I didn't upgrade to VPC4 because I didn't see enough benefit of doing so, but VPC5 had OS X support, so I upgraded to that one. Once again with VPC6, there doesn't seem to be enough to encourage me to upgrade.

An option on the upgrading policy is to either allow free upgrades forever (a la Stone Design) or perhaps give one free upgrade, but then charge the user after that, or only be backward compatible for one or two versions, so a person is forced to upgrade continually or get a newer product (one can't upgrade from VPC2 to VPC5).

[748s]

Originally posted by crazytom
It also allows the company of said 'Killer App X' to stick it to you for upgrades. (Yes, I'm bitter about this.) I would feel a little better if Apple would stagger their upgrade pricing...right now, user A, who bought FCP 1 can upgrade to 4 for the same amount of money as User B, who bought FCP 1, paid for upgrade to 2, and paid for an upgrade to 3. User A has spent $1400, while User B has spent $2200.

I guess I'll just deal with it and wait for FCP 6 until I upgrade. Otherwise, it's a great deal if you're just getting into video. It's nice that they cut the price of DVD SP in half...that adds a little vaseline to the whole process.

it's a pro app. for the added features it's a good deal. total costs (hardware/software) can be recouped in weeks rather than year(s) for total outlay for an avid. upgrade costs to fcp4 can be recouped in hours. fce would be a better deal for entry level nle. try telling a client to come back in 2 years when fcp6 is available. if you wait that long you are going to be a long way off the pace.

[filmcutter]

Anyone know if the Education version is any different from the full Pro version (other than a drastic price difference)?? Is it lacking any functionality or features?

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by crazytom
It also allows the company of said 'Killer App X' to stick it to you for upgrades. (Yes, I'm bitter about this.) I would feel a little better if Apple would stagger their upgrade pricing...right now, user A, who bought FCP 1 can upgrade to 4 for the same amount of money as User B, who bought FCP 1, paid for upgrade to 2, and paid for an upgrade to 3. User A has spent $1400, while User B has spent $2200.

I guess I'll just deal with it and wait for FCP 6 until I upgrade. Otherwise, it's a great deal if you're just getting into video. It's nice that they cut the price of DVD SP in half...that adds a little vaseline to the whole process.


Personally I hav no problems w/upgrade pricing. But if it makes you feel better FCP 1 and 2(?) users might be getting screwed because OS 9 only dics not playing nice in the current OS X world. Originally Apple said "tough cookies buy the full version at 999" and users said "hell no." I don't think and end has been reached yet but last rumor I heard was that there were be an addtional cost for people upgrading from OS 9 only FCP install dics to FCP 3 (or 4 now I guess).

Anyway, if you make your $$$ w/FCP (or in video for that matter) $999 is not a lot of money. Currently the only thing that has the same flexibility and pro features as FCP is an Avid Xpress which starts at around $40k. The fact that Apple offers so much for so little still amazes me.


Lethal

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by filmcutter
Anyone know if the Education version is any different from the full Pro version (other than a drastic price difference)?? Is it lacking any functionality or features?

Exact same program. The only difference is 1. per the license agreement it can only be used for educational purposes and 2. it has a seperate but equal upgrade path. so, for example, you cannot buy FCP 3.0 edu version and upgrade to the FCP 4 retail version.


Lethal

[blogo]

Originally posted by crazytom
I just got the upgrade to FCP last fall, plus DVD Studio Pro (new). Now's it's going to cost me 80% of purchase price to upgrade FCP again?!?!?
There's no word about the price to upgrade DVDSP, hell I could purchase another license and the $30 upgrade for less than I originally paid for it??? WTF?!?!?! No 'loyalty bonus'?

I'm going to have to think long and hard if this upgrade is going to be worth it.

It's not like Apple is going to kill you if you dont upgrade. :rolleyes:

[madforrit]

The icon for FCP3 has 4:24:48.29 as the reel number and timecode. I wonder if that means anything or it's random....

Gawsh, wouldn't it be fun to work at Apple and know all these little tidbits. :p

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by crazytom
I envy you. "User A" gets through this one smelling like a rose! If you're coming from FCP 1, you are going to LOVE FCP 4!!! It's a whole new monster.

There's some grumbling appearing on Apple's forums about the upgrade pricing, too.
Okay - I'm an idiot - I meant to say I'm a "User B" person. :rolleyes:

I've have all 3 boxes on the shelf (and the empty wallet!) to prove it! :p

(Hopefully my earlier post makes more sense now)

[SPG]

Not to pee on anyone's parade here, but DVDSP has been plagued by the following shortcomings:
Subtitle support. Absolute hell for most who've tried.
MPEG encode quality. hopefully this is fixed with the new encode software. Still I doubt it will be up to par with the big dogs like Sonic.
DVD-9 support. Well known bug with DVDSP 1 & 1.5
CSS and Macrovision support. The pros need this everyday.
Full GPRM usage. DVDSP takes half the register for it's own use.
Better scripting. The little things that seperate the better DVD's.

hopefully these have been addressed but I didn't see anything about DVD-9 or CSS/Macrovision.

BTW, FCP4 looks sick. Can't wait to get that in the studio!

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by kishba
my 350 G4 has agp.... it's arn's old one

i wish people would stop spouting off misinformation. go look at apple tech documents before posting!

Sorry.
Too quick... I'll look better next time.

[bretm]

Originally posted by siberian
Apple basically screwed those of us who use non superdrive equipped and non-superdrive capable machines by overpricing DVD Studio Pro for hobbiests and making iDVD unavailable to anyone who didn't buy a new machine.

This price reduction finally brings the promise of the DV revolution to _all_ mac users.

Hallelujah! Thanks Steve!

Superdrives cost less than 300 bucks and iDVD has always been available for purchase on the apple store. I simply bought a superdrive, dropped it in my G4 350, bought iDVD 2 ($30), and started making DVDs. So what is the problem? Cheap DVD drive, nearly free software. What else do you want? Doesn't sound like anybody screwed you, that's for sure.

[d46799]

Avid killer! :D

[ReelFocused]

Avid is poised to dominate the broadcast market, not to mention they are all over the PC market as well. IMHO: Apple's products will not be an Avid killer anytime soon. Apple's new stuff is AWESOME and certainly kicks it up a notch for them, but they are no where close to Avids broad range of platform/product offerings.....yet.

If anything, its AWESOME competition and its a total win win for consumers. IE: Avid probably would have never released Xpress DV with things like color correction if it wasn't for FCP.

[The Shadow]

More bad news for Adobe.:)

[hanumang]

Originally posted by The Shadow
More bad news for Adobe.:)

Indeed. Now, I'm guessing, they'll never release Encore for the Mac.

Not like we're gonna miss it.

To touch on the whole notion of upgrading, I too would at least like to hear that some kind of discount will be offered for past version owners of DVDSP. I really don't want to have to pay $500. Yeah, I know, no one is making me upgrade, but who doesn't want to have the latest and greatest toys? ;)

[nuckinfutz]

Originally posted by ReelFocused
Avid is poised to dominate the broadcast market, not to mention they are all over the PC market as well. IMHO: Apple's products will not be an Avid killer anytime soon. Apple's new stuff is AWESOME and certainly kicks it up a notch for them, but they are no where close to Avids broad range of platform/product offerings.....yet.

If anything, its AWESOME competition and its a total win win for consumers. IE: Avid probably would have never released Xpress DV with things like color correction if it wasn't for FCP.

Ken Stone might disagree with you now (http://www.kenstone.net/cgi/discussions/general.cgi?read=14341#14341)

Hello FCP 4. Say good bye to Avid.

If FCP wasn't an Avid 'killer' before, it is now. (g)

This is amazing. So much new stuff, it's like a brand new application. Look what's bundled with it. This is so exciting.

Word on the street is that it will ship in June.

REAL TIME FireWire output. Way to go FCP.

Well yes........I am excited.

"Hopefully ken and friends will have white papers and more soon."

I wish, guess that we'll have to wait until June.

--ken



Avid will not take FCP4 lightly. However I hope they can provide a synergy with FCP at the Low to Midrange end and Avid Systems at the high end. DV should be about interapplication communication. I should be able to take my FCP project and finish it on a high end Avid.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by ReelFocused
Avid is poised to dominate the broadcast market, not to mention they are all over the PC market as well. IMHO: Apple's products will not be an Avid killer anytime soon. Apple's new stuff is AWESOME and certainly kicks it up a notch for them, but they are no where close to Avids broad range of platform/product offerings.....yet.

If anything, its AWESOME competition and its a total win win for consumers. IE: Avid probably would have never released Xpress DV with things like color correction if it wasn't for FCP.


Currently Avid is dominating the broadcast market and FCP has limited appeal to broadcasters. But FCP has lots of appeal to the post production industry. No, I am not splitting hairs by seperating broadcast from post because they are different markets w/different needs (even if there is some cross over).

In the post field FCP is an Avid Killer in the realm of off-line NLEs. If you are a post house w/5 or 6 off line machines and one on-line machine would you rather pay ~$40k+ (Avid) or ~$10k+ (FCP) for each off-line machine? Is FCP a Symphony killer or DS killer? No. Is FCP superior to Media/Film composers? No. Are Media/Film composers worth the extra 60 or 80 grand?

What I'm waiting for is a head-to-head comparison of FCP 4 and Avid's XpressPro w/Mojo.


Lethal

[crazytom]

Originally posted by Eple
It's not like Apple is going to kill you if you dont upgrade. :rolleyes:

No, that's very true; but Apple DOES want my money.

I'm a borderline case for owning FCP anyway. I don't make my living with it (I do more audio work), but a small portion of my income comes from video work (mainly from video to DVD transfers---which I don't use FCP or DVDSP to their fullest potential; but iMovie and iDVD don't have some features that I use on occasion).

In comparison, Bias, Inc. just announced Peak 4.0: Purchase price $499; upgrade price $149. To me, that's a much more reasonable structure.

[eric_n_dfw]

Thanks for the Ken Stone quote - I followed the link and found a review on it at http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/04_apr/editorials/applenabrnd030406.htm
I had not gathered from Apple's FCP pages that RT out the firewire port was part of RT Extreme.

SWEET!

I now, officially MUST have this! :D

[beatle888]

Originally posted by filmcutter
Anyone know if the Education version is any different from the full Pro version (other than a drastic price difference)?? Is it lacking any functionality or features?


im not sure, but i have a question for you. i am a photo compositor and color specialist working mainly in photoshop. i would like to start working in film compositing or video compositing. the question is, where should i start? also, is it almost impossible to get into the industry? i am very talented at image compositing in photoshop but i dont SELL myself very well. any advice would be appreciated.



Lethal

i would be grateful if you had some direction on this topic as well. shake looks so simple to me, i love compositing but i know i'll need to learn FCP or something equivalent as well. i just dont know how hard it is to get in the market or where to start. im serious when i say im an incredible photoshop compositor.

thanks.

[ducksman98]

Hey iJon,

I think what you are looking for is Logic Audio Platinum, Gold and Audio ;) They already have that

[QUOTE]Originally posted by iJon
[B]logic express would be very nice. i know lots of people who like to record there own music and get into that stuff, just need a cheaper way to start off.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by beatle888
im not sure, but i have a question for you. i am a photo compositor and color specialist working mainly in photoshop. i would like to start working in film compositing or video compositing. the question is, where should i start? also, is it almost impossible to get into the industry? i am very talented at image compositing in photoshop but i dont SELL myself very well. any advice would be appreciated.



Lethal

i would be grateful if you had some direction on this topic as well. shake looks so simple to me, i love compositing but i know i'll need to learn FCP or something equivalent as well. i just dont know how hard it is to get in the market or where to start. im serious when i say im an incredible photoshop compositor.

thanks.


Beatle888,

If you want to do compositing, color, vfx, etc., then look at Shake, After Effects, and programs like Smoke and Flame (on the high end) from Discreet (http://www.discreet.com/products/). Unless you get a job that has you wearing the "eidting" hat and the "compositing/FX" hat you'll rarely, if ever, have to use an editing program. Usually an editor will cut the piece and then hand it over to you, the compositer/finisher, to color correction, final FX, etc.,.


Lethal

[P-Worm]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
Thanks for the Ken Stone quote - I followed the link and found a review on it at http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/2003/04_apr/editorials/applenabrnd030406.htm
I had not gathered from Apple's FCP pages that RT out the firewire port was part of RT Extreme.

SWEET!

I now, officially MUST have this! :D

Thanks for the article.

Check out what it says at the bottom of page 2:

Apple says existing Shake for Linux, Irix and Windows customers will continue to be given the option to double the number of their existing Shake licenses at no additional cost by migrating them to Shake on Mac OS X. For more information, visit http://www.apple.com/shake.

That's tight if I'm reading that correctly. I expect these updates to bring the switchers in droves.

P-Worm

[GeneR]

:D

[P-Worm]

Does anyone know if Shake has a free version for download anywhere like Maya does? Not for actual usage, but to play around with, maybe with water marks overlaid on the images and rendering somewhat disabled? I'm not really expecting them to have one, but a little hope never hurt.

P-Worm

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by P-Worm
Does anyone know if Shake has a free version for download anywhere like Maya does? Not for actual usage, but to play around with, maybe with water marks overlaid on the images and rendering somewhat disabled? I'm not really expecting them to have one, but a little hope never hurt.

P-Worm I'd love to see Apple start doing that. I don't believe they do, nor do I remember them ever offering demo versions of their stuff - at least not in the time that I've been a Mac user - since about 1997.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Beatle888,

If you want to do compositing, color, vfx, etc., then look at Shake, After Effects, and programs like Smoke and Flame (on the high end) from Discreet (http://www.discreet.com/products/). Unless you get a job that has you wearing the "eidting" hat and the "compositing/FX" hat you'll rarely, if ever, have to use an editing program. Usually an editor will cut the piece and then hand it over to you, the compositer/finisher, to color correction, final FX, etc.,.


Lethal


Lethal,

is the industry too closed off for someone to be self taught and new to the industry with no experience? by the time im searching for a position i'll really know my stuff but since i'll be starting out i wont have an impressive resume.

and thanks again for your help. i really really do appreciate it. ive been really down on my future and im looking for something that will bring some stability. the print industry is really bad right now. grrrrrrr never mind im rambling. but i do appreciate it.

[ricktowers]

Beatle888:

There is a huge difference between Photoshop compositing and film compositing. Working with moving pictures is not like working on a still image. The VFX industry has been hit hard by the current state of the economy just like the print industry. There is a lot of experienced compositors/visual effects artist who are looking for work now (especially with all the vfx houses that have closed lately). Your best chance would be to look for an intern job at one of these facilities that are still around. My advice to you is to learn how to rotoscope properly either by using After Effects or even better Discreet's Combustion. Shake also has nice rotoscoping tools but the other two are more accessible. Combustion's rotosplines are also compatible (or can be open) with Flame and Inferno which are industry standards. Good roto artists are hard to come by. I know that when I look for a junior or assistant the first question I ask them is about their roto skills.


-Ricardo

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by ricktowers
Beatle888:

There is a huge difference between Photoshop compositing and film compositing. Working with moving pictures is not like working on a still image. The VFX industry has been hit hard by the current state of the economy just like the print industry. There is a lot of experienced compositors/visual effects artist who are looking for work now (especially with all the vfx houses that have closed lately). Your best chance would be to look for an intern job at one of these facilities that are still around. My advice to you is to learn how to rotoscope properly either by using After Effects or even better Discreet's Combustion. Shake also has nice rotoscoping tools but the other two are more accessible. Combustion's rotosplines are also compatible (or can be open) with Flame and Inferno which are industry standards. Good roto artists are hard to come by. I know that when I look for a junior or assistant the first question I ask them is about their roto skills.


-Ricardo


ricktowers gave some good advice. Not to be a killjoy Beatle888 but the film/TV industry is a tough place to be right now. Places are hiring to replace (if someone quit or got fired) but I haven't seen places hiring to expand in almost 2 years. But that being said if this is something you want to do then go for it. If you are good you'll land a job eventually. :)


Lethal

[boskie]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Beatle888,

If you want to do compositing, color, vfx, etc., then look at Shake, After Effects, and programs like Smoke and Flame (on the high end) from Discreet (http://www.discreet.com/products/). Unless you get a job that has you wearing the "eidting" hat and the "compositing/FX" hat you'll rarely, if ever, have to use an editing program. Usually an editor will cut the piece and then hand it over to you, the compositer/finisher, to color correction, final FX, etc.,.


Lethal

I would also recommend Discreet's Combustion (less tahn $1000, as it is on par with, if not better than AE and allows you to migrate upwards to Flame (~ $16k for the licenese alone another couple of grand for an SGI to run it on) as the interface (modules) are pretty comparable all the way up.

[Doctor Q]

The new titling features in FCP4 sure look like fun to play with. But that's all I would do with them - play - because I don't use FCP for paid work. Therefore, much as I'd like to have it, I can't afford to upgrade. I always like to have the latest and greatest of everything, but I'll have to be content with FCP3. :(

[beatle888]

oh man, it sounds tough all over. well, i'll check out combustion and hopefully it will run on my system. if not i'll start with after effects. that wouldnt be a waist of time i believe, since it was recommended (but not over combustion). damn, this economy is hitting hard. good luck to ALL OF YOU. and thank you sooooo much for the help. OH, how do people learn these applications if the software and sgi systems are so expensive? would it be best to enroll in classes because of this fact? i usually teach myself.

ok anyway, i dont want to bleed you all dry. im gonna go join a motion graphics and film forum.
thanks you again.

beatle888.

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by beatle888
oh man, it sounds tough all over. well, i'll check out combustion and hopefully it will run on my system. if not i'll start with after effects. that wouldnt be a waist of time i believe, since it was recommended (but not over combustion). damn, this economy is hitting hard. good luck to ALL OF YOU. and thank you sooooo much for the help. OH, how do people learn these applications if the software and sgi systems are so expensive? would it be best to enroll in classes because of this fact? i usually teach myself.

ok anyway, i dont want to bleed you all dry. im gonna go join a motion graphics and film forum.
thanks you again.

beatle888.

check out creativecow.net (http://www.creativecow.net). Very good community and they have a forum for just about everything. I majored in radio/tv production in college so thats when I got my first chance to play w/the big toys. Since college I've had jobs and internships that have kept me in touch w/the hardware and software. I also have my own FCP set up because I cut low budget/indiepent movies on nights/weeknds.

If you live in a large market you mgiht be able to volunteer your time as a way to get your foot in the door. When I lived in LA I was able to do that, but back here in Indiana I'm unable to find any place that will let me work for free.


Lethal

[crazytom]

I take it there is no upgrade path for DVD SP?

I guess that's OK since they cut the price in half anyway. I can live with that. It looks like it'll be worth it.

[hanumang]

Originally posted by crazytom
I take it there is no upgrade path for DVD SP?

Well, an Apple rep on the official site's DVDSP forums has hinted that whether or not their is an upgrade version made for retail/download - outside of the 'up-to-date' thing - is decision to be made closer to August.

Sounds hopeful. I'd hate to have to pay $500 having just brought DVDSP 2 weeks ago.

[iJon]

well apple is gonna be pissed again. looks like someone leaked fcp and its on carracho.

iJon

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by iJon
well apple is gonna be pissed again. looks like someone leaked fcp and its on carracho.

iJon


Is it really FCP 4 or just a file called FCP 4? Even if it is FCP 4 I'd doubt it's the final version and a unfinalized NLE is one of the last pieces of software I'd want on my computer. ;)


Lethal

[iJon]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
Is it really FCP 4 or just a file called FCP 4? Even if it is FCP 4 I'd doubt it's the final version and a unfinalized NLE is one of the last pieces of software I'd want on my computer. ;)


Lethal
not sure, dont see why he would lie, im sure its the beta. i saw some people on spymac posting pictures after the annoucement it was out.

iJon

[iJon]

haha i just talked with the guy on the server. apparently it was a dmg just full of music and stuff. thats so funny, i wonder how many people downloaded it.

iJon

[P-Worm]

Originally posted by iJon
haha i just talked with the guy on the server. apparently it was a dmg just full of music and stuff. thats so funny, i wonder how many people downloaded it.

iJon

I pulled that one once. Just for kicks I renamed a video I did for school "The best Simpsons episode ever!" Within 30 minutes, eight people downloaded it and were probably very disappointed with what they found.

Oh the joys of peer to peer networks. :)

P-Worm

[dstorey]

The way the new apps are presented now with similar boxes (with the exception of logic) and labelled pro digital production on the same page, does anyone think an iLife or Office like suite will come out sometime soon. Maybe this would be called something like iCreate and involve Emagic Logic Platinum becoming something like Apple Logic Pro and getting a box to match the others, maybe with an ear instead of an eye. Of course the cost would be high (but less than the cost off all seperate) not the $50 or so of iLife. It would be good to offer the intergration between these apps like the iLife apps have. Then I'd like Logic Gold to become something like Logic Express and the low end app or a new app based on logic but re designed to be easy to use to become iTraxs and added to iLife. It would be cool for Apple to buy Maya too with it sharing the same file format as shake. I dunno if Apple has ever shown any intrest in this. Their sketch book app technology would be a nice addition to OS X Panther as well to add sketching intergation across apps.

[finchna]

Hi. I'm curious if anyone knows if DVD studio will work with CDs? (if the data isn't too large) That could be creating a nice interface for playing video clips that are on a CD or a full-fledged VCD? If not, is there other software that does that? Thanks,

Nathan

[iJon]

Originally posted by finchna
Hi. I'm curious if anyone knows if DVD studio will work with CDs? (if the data isn't too large) That could be creating a nice interface for playing video clips that are on a CD or a full-fledged VCD? If not, is there other software that does that? Thanks,

Nathan
it doesnt, it only works for dvd r 5's to dvd r 18's (i think 18 is the highest).

iJon

[hanumang]

Originally posted by finchna
Hi. I'm curious if anyone knows if DVD studio will work with CDs? (if the data isn't too large) That could be creating a nice interface for playing video clips that are on a CD or a full-fledged VCD? If not, is there other software that does that?

I don't believe DVDSP does anything other than DVDs.

However, the CD burning software of choice for many is Roxio's Toast 5 Titanium (http://www.roxio.com/en/products/toast/index.jhtml).