PDA

View Full Version : Safari 1.0 at WWDC?




MacRumors
May 14, 2003, 04:38 PM
MacNews.net.tc (http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=10&t=95) claims that Safari final will be arriving at WWDC:

Sources close to the development of Apple's webbrowser have told us to expect a final release of Safari 1.0 at WWDC 2003.



boskie
May 14, 2003, 04:40 PM
Cool!! Completely forgot i was using a beta still.

Grimace
May 14, 2003, 04:45 PM
I hope they fix issues with Hotmail and other .NET compatability issues.

jelloshotsrule
May 14, 2003, 04:50 PM
i personally don't care what it's called... it's more about what it has and doesn't have... let's hope we can attach photos to email (yahoo) and to posts here using safari... as of yet i still can't do that

rockman2023
May 14, 2003, 04:59 PM
There's still an issue with the flash player. When you mouseover a button then move off of it, the finger cursor doesnt change. It gets annoying sometimes, being that I'm a Flash user. Also, the 60-second timeout is annoying; I can't upload files for my webpages using Safari (I have 56k, therefore the upload time is slow).

Isn't it funny how Safari 1.0 would rival IE 5.2 and Netscape 7; it's only gonna get better. http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Freg3000
May 14, 2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by rockman2023

Isn't it funny how Safari 1.0 would rival IE 5.2 and Netscape 7; it's only gonna get better. http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

That is really funny. Apple's first post-beta version will out do both of those browsers. Seriously, I am on the web all the time, go to a lot of websites (although I do not use it for email, so i don't know about photo attachment problems and such) but I can say that i have experienced very very few problems. Like one poster has already said, I barely know that I am using a beta. :)

A WWDC with a 1.0 Safari release, a 970 Powermac, a Panther preview......ahhhh.....it's like a new MacWorld. :)

Le Big Mac
May 14, 2003, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by rockman2023

Isn't it funny how Safari 1.0 would rival IE 5.2 and Netscape 7; it's only gonna get better. http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Yeah, I was thinking about that this morning. Safari already is better than either of those two browsers in terms of features. Sure there are bugs, but it's getting better. Among other things, the phrase "pop-up ad" has no more meaning for me.

mactastic
May 14, 2003, 05:17 PM
I hope they fix it so I can use it to do banking/online ordering. Thats pretty much the only reason I ever use IE anymore.

Mr. Anderson
May 14, 2003, 05:28 PM
I'm sure if they're going to offer a complete version and not a beta, Apple will make sure its capable of doing everything it needs to.

I look forward to seeing what will be added/upgraded from the current beta version...

D

MrMacMan
May 14, 2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by rockman2023
Also, the 60-second timeout is annoying; I can't upload files for my webpages using Safari (I have 56k, therefore the upload time is slow).

welcome to the 'notimeout' safari! (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/19173) :)

BTW, one person noted that they can't upload files on the boards, I can, and I have since upgrading to the latest version...

backspinner
May 14, 2003, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
"pop-up ad" What does that mean :D

macguymike
May 14, 2003, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by rockman2023
Isn't it funny how Safari 1.0 would rival IE 5.2 and Netscape 7; it's only gonna get better. http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


Not really. Both Netscape and IE have been around for a lot longer than Safari, so of course their version numbers are higher. :rolleyes:

coolfactor
May 14, 2003, 06:05 PM
Originally posted by macguymike
Not really. Both Netscape and IE have been around for a lot longer than Safari, so of course their version numbers are higher. :rolleyes:

I think the emphasis here was on the word "rival". :rolleyes:

zigi
May 14, 2003, 06:06 PM
If they just fix the SSL issue and some minor JavaScript problems I'll be very happy.

coolfactor
May 14, 2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i personally don't care what it's called... it's more about what it has and doesn't have... let's hope we can attach photos to email (yahoo) and to posts here using safari... as of yet i still can't do that

I've been able to attach files to Yahoo! email messages and post to MacRumors using Safari. No issues.

:cool:

BaghdadBob
May 14, 2003, 06:22 PM
I love Safari. No pop-up ads. Needs SSL fixes, and a little bit better implementation of tabs (I would like to open a SINGLE bookmark in a new tab, danke), better download manager, history management, and some Java/Flash/Video (such as WMP) compatibility....but damn...aren't we all impressed, on the scale of things, how good this software is for how young it is?

Three cheers for MS-Free Apple! Hip hip (hooray!) hip hip (hooray!)

Do I sound cheerleader enough? I guess in all the uncertain anticipation with the 970 I'm just glad to have something semi-concrete to be assuredly happy about.

joelc
May 14, 2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by coolfactor
I've been able to attach files to Yahoo! email messages and post to MacRumors using Safari. No issues.

:cool:

Yeah, me too...I don't know what that other person was saying...upgrade, I suggest

Freg3000
May 14, 2003, 06:32 PM
Why was this moved to Page 2? I like it when stories go from Page 2 to the Front Page, not the other way around. :)

Jerry Spoon
May 14, 2003, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Among other things, the phrase "pop-up ad" has no more meaning for me.
I still have to use IE at work b/c they won't let me upgrade to OSX until after the new fiscal year. You don't realize how nice no pop-ups are in Safari until you have to go in and experience them everyday at work. Oh well. One more reason to look forward to going home.

dekator
May 14, 2003, 07:12 PM
that Apple make their own browser, it has too many issues for me yet. Notably with Java. I'm sticking with Camino which has taken over the single best (IMHO) feature of Safari: Bookmark management. Speed? Well, Camino is faster for me. Question of taste, of course. I'm curious what Phoenix will become. The latest version of Mozilla didn't impress me. Browser crashes... wow, haven't had that since... ah, long time.

jettredmont
May 14, 2003, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
and a little bit better implementation of tabs (I would like to open a SINGLE bookmark in a new tab, danke)

I don't understand what you mean. I click the "bookmarks" button, then right-click a bookmark and select "Open in New Tab" and it works just fine (then click the bookmark button again to get back to my previous page).

The only thing missing is clicking a middle-button or Command-clicking within the Bookmarks pane to open in a new window ...

QCassidy352
May 14, 2003, 08:20 PM
there are still pages on my college's server with articles, databases, and the like that don't come up in safari (blank page). A fix for that is all I need now from Safari. :)

jettredmont
May 14, 2003, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
MacNews.net.tc (http://macintosh.fryke.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=10&t=95) claims that Safari final will be arriving at WWDC:

IMHO, it really has to. Follow me here:

When Safari debuted, Apple said that developers would be able to use WebCore in their own apps when Safari goes 1.0.

Apple subsequently said that you shouldn't even try to use WebCore in your apps until it is 1.0.

A quick browse through iTunes 4 doesn't show WebCore shared library, but most developers suspect Apple has it linked in statically (it would be downright foolish to build a browser into iTunes from scratch when WebCore is right there!).

So, WebCore and the associated dev kit should be released for other developers ASAP. WWDC would be a decent place to introduce it (although simultaneous with iTunes4 would have been better). In fact, I strongly suspect that if WWDC gets too far along with no WebCore official release there might be a mini riot in the lunch room. And that would be Very Bad for Apple. I mean, you get those pencil protectors and horn-rimmed glasses whipping across a convention room floor and someone could lose their eye!

MacFan25
May 14, 2003, 08:44 PM
like an above poster said, i would like to see the tabs work a little better.

but so far, i love safari! :)

bbarnhart
May 14, 2003, 10:09 PM
I had problems using Safari to setup my router. It would not work well and I thought I'd give IE a try. IE worked like a champ. Glad I didn't delete it. But, I still use Safari for everyday browsing. Gotta love the tabbed browsing. Can't live without it.

jelloshotsrule
May 14, 2003, 11:47 PM
Originally posted by joelc
Yeah, me too...I don't know what that other person was saying...upgrade, I suggest

it works now. i hadn't tried it in a while as i don't often use yahoo (basically ever) or post images here...

so taht's a plus.

i think that version 1 shoudl basically work as well (compatibility wise) as other browsers, while also having the great features and speed etc that it already has.

of course, some of the compatibility issues are the web developers' faults...

BaghdadBob
May 15, 2003, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by jettredmont
I don't understand what you mean. I click the "bookmarks" button, then right-click a bookmark and select "Open in New Tab" and it works just fine (then click the bookmark button again to get back to my previous page).
I tend to use folders on my bookmark bar -- I don't even use the bookmark menu -- that way I have a submenu with certain categories, right from the bookmark bar. Now, if I want to open that whole list of bookmarks (the ones that aren't in a further heirarchy) I can do that by command-clicking. But if I want to open just one of those items in a new tab I can't.

Plus, I have a one-button mouse, and no alt-clicking seems to be either bringing up a cmenu or opening in a new tab...so maybe it only works with the multi-mice? Hmmm...
Originally posted by jettredmont
Apple subsequently said that you shouldn't even try to use WebCore in your apps until it is 1.0.

A quick browse through iTunes 4 doesn't show WebCore shared library, but most developers suspect Apple has it linked in statically (it would be downright foolish to build a browser into iTunes from scratch when WebCore is right there!).
Interesting point, however I believe Apple can both tell developers WebCore is not ready for mass usage and use it themselves within their own highly-controlled iTunes environment without being duplicitous. It may not be ready for mass consumption. But good point. Pencils hurt...I stabbed a kid in the arm with one in 2nd grade...the upside is he was bigger than me and never messed with me again...and I have never stabbed again :) (where's my halo?)
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
of course, some of the compatibility issues are the web developers' faults...
Yeah, you know, you'd think WellsFargo was big enough of a bank to hire web developers that don't leave anything to default, but sure enough when I go there in Safari there's no margin in the top-left.

This will be a problem until CSS is universally implemented AND web developers define everything, cuz I just don't see Apple adopting every single default identical to IE. But that's just layout issues...I know there are more...

I have included a shot of me using my bookmark bar heirarchy, for whatever reason...but does anyone know how to take these freakin pictures in NON .pdf format?

vniow
May 15, 2003, 01:55 AM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob

I have included a shot of me using my bookmark bar heirarchy, for whatever reason...but does anyone know how to take these freakin pictures in NON .pdf format?

Open it in Preview and export it into a JPG or whatever.

nagromme
May 15, 2003, 02:26 AM
I could see the final Safari being Panther-only, but I wouldn't ne surprised at sooner, either. Apple can keep adding features and taking feedback, anyway--but once stability and performance reaches a certain point, and the basic features are all there, you've got a 1.0 product for sure.

Safari is already there, from where I'm standing. (Never had a problem with any site I use--including this one--although I know there are real issues for others.)

BaghdadBob
May 15, 2003, 04:26 AM
Originally posted by vniow
Open it in Preview and export it into a JPG or whatever.
Ah! Thanks, I have edited my post. Acrobat Reader wouldn't export it.

danman
May 15, 2003, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by vniow
Open it in Preview and export it into a JPG or whatever.

Do APPLE+SHIFT+4 to get the crosshair to define the area of the screen you want to capture, then simply hold down CTRL when you do the grab. This copies it to the ClipBoard.. Then drop it into Photyshop or similar, and save as format you want... saves a step in my book.

Somewhere there is an option to make the grab format TIFF but it's in a .plisty somewhere, and I can't remember where.

D.

sandsl
May 15, 2003, 07:52 AM
I think this rumor is totally possible considering the developer kit for Safari is due to be released at WWDC.

Of course, still possible that it won't be released until Panther.

yzedf
May 15, 2003, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Ah! Thanks, I have edited my post. Acrobat Reader wouldn't export it.
That is why it is called Reader. :rolleyes:

BaghdadBob
May 15, 2003, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
That is why it is called Reader. :rolleyes:
Yeah, yeah, smartass :). I'm not used to having an alternative to open my PDFs in, especially because the only time PDFs have been important to me I was on an NT box.

BillyShears
May 15, 2003, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by jettredmont
IMHO, it really has to. Follow me here:

When Safari debuted, Apple said that developers would be able to use WebCore in their own apps when Safari goes 1.0.

Apple subsequently said that you shouldn't even try to use WebCore in your apps until it is 1.0.

A quick browse through iTunes 4 doesn't show WebCore shared library, but most developers suspect Apple has it linked in statically (it would be downright foolish to build a browser into iTunes from scratch when WebCore is right there!).

So, WebCore and the associated dev kit should be released for other developers ASAP. WWDC would be a decent place to introduce it (although simultaneous with iTunes4 would have been better). In fact, I strongly suspect that if WWDC gets too far along with no WebCore official release there might be a mini riot in the lunch room. And that would be Very Bad for Apple. I mean, you get those pencil protectors and horn-rimmed glasses whipping across a convention room floor and someone could lose their eye!

I believe iTunes uses XML, not HTML. A good choice, it allows other companies to tie into the music store, using their own "skin."

YWN
May 16, 2003, 02:23 AM
Safari works usually ok with me, but it doesn't load sometimes some pages. This is usually when I change things on my server, and want to use phpMyAdmin it also doesn't load... This is very annoying, to solve it, I have to go back and forward again... Very annoying though..

This is the only problem I have so far...

Lanbrown
May 16, 2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Yeah, I was thinking about that this morning. Safari already is better than either of those two browsers in terms of features. Sure there are bugs, but it's getting better. Among other things, the phrase "pop-up ad" has no more meaning for me.

Some sites are very poorly coded and only work well with IE or Netscape. MS did a few changes to Hotmail recently and made it work a little better with Opera; you can now do attachments. Some banking institutions only allow certain browsers, typically IE 5.01 and above and a few version of Netscape. Try to use another browser like Opera, Phoenix, Mozilla, etc. and you get a message that you cannot. In Opera, change how it reports itself to IE or Netscape and you can use it just fine. But having it report itself as something else does not remedy the real problem; writing sites for IE and/or Netscape only. Apple is not the one that needs to fight the battle to get site owners to provide W3C compatible sites, but the users. Best thing to do is to contact the sites and complain. In some cases it does nothing, in others they actually work on it and resolve the issue. It took MS a longtime to fix Hotmail, but they did. More banking institutions are releasing their strict policy of what browsers they support, especially since the way people connect to them is changing. More handhelds and wireless phones with browsers are coming to market and being used. IE is a relatively small player in the phone market and will continue to do so. Some phones now have full-fledged browsers on them, like the P800 that has an Opera browser. To the poster about Yahoo, let them know. Yahoo generates some of their revenue from ads, if you canít use their site properly; they loose traffic and thus revenue. The more people complain the better sites will become and the ones who want to only provide support for IE and Netscape will be left behind. It is not their choice what browser people use but yours. In some cases requiring a specific browser or release is unfeasible as there are other platforms and some of them do not have all of the browsers made available to them. When I switched exclusively to Opera, there were many sites that I had a problem with, now there is just five. One of which I have transferred the investments to another company as they had more then enough time to resolve the issue and their answer to why they didnít support it did not hold water. There are far more vulnerabilities with IE and in one particular series of releases from Netscape then in Opera. Another had a cookie problem, changed the identify setting to IE went to the site and then changed it back Opera. Now I can visit the site all I want with no problems. Another mail site doesnít allow you to empty your trash bin, it doesnít count against your quota so I just let it sit there and they empty it one a week. Itís their wasted storage space. The last two I just get the same products from someone else. At onetime I had a problem with eBay; within 12 hours they fixed the problem. So there are sites that take issues like this seriously.

So support for other browsers is growing, but it is up to the customer/consumer to push them towards it though.

Opera has far better features then what IE offers. MS hasnít done an update to IE at all; they are focusing their attention elsewhere now that they have market dominance. Which is good for all the other players especially as other operating systems are gaining adoption. MS only provides IE for windows and the Mac. They do have a beta for Solaris and HP-UX but hasnít been updated in a longtime and at times will not install without some major fiddling.

Lance

JLL
May 18, 2003, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by jettredmont
A quick browse through iTunes 4 doesn't show WebCore shared library, but most developers suspect Apple has it linked in statically (it would be downright foolish to build a browser into iTunes from scratch when WebCore is right there!).

iTunes 4 does NOT use WebCore, and it does NOT use HTML.

Flickta
May 19, 2003, 11:42 AM
Safari is still beta. I am often annoyed with it, cause it displays some pages... well... improperly. But I see it is here to stay. And I'm typing this in it, btw. Waiting for next update.

jettredmont
May 19, 2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by JLL
iTunes 4 does NOT use WebCore, and it does NOT use HTML.

You are correct, it uses XML.

For XML presentation, as seen in iTunes4, you use 90% of what is already in a web browser, so I stand by my original statement:

If iTunes4 does not use WebCore, the iTunes team foolishly reinvented the wheel.

I don't see the iTunes team as being foolish, and so do tend to believe they are using WebCore in there (which, as someone else pointed out, isn't 100% hypocritical as it's displaying controlled content etc).

jettredmont
May 19, 2003, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by BillyShears
I believe iTunes uses XML, not HTML. A good choice, it allows other companies to tie into the music store, using their own "skin."

Yes, it uses XML (I never said it uses HTML!) Again, however, presenting XML as iTunes does is accomplished by a web browser component. You can either re-write the browser display logic (simpler, just for your specific XML display needs, but you might want to allow yourself greater complexity of presentation later on ...) or you can "borrow" code from a browser. No, you don't need the HTTP communications code or the HTML parsing layer, just the XML parsing and display systems. It's still a lot of code to rewrite for no reason whatsoever!