dual G4 Powerbook? [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

blakespot

Mar 7, 2002, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by Xapplimatic
Dual Processor PowerBook G4 for Mac World New York?? ! :)

I would most definitely not hold my breath for a dual processor powerbook. In laptops power usage is of incredible importance and is an area that adding a second processor would just make no sense.

blakespot

rice_web

Mar 7, 2002, 09:19 AM

I think it might work. As Apple has stated, the G4 is going to replace the G3, and the new G4's use far less power (or so I've heard). The iBook could either move to 1GHz G3's when the PowerBooks do, or the iBook could move to G4's, and the PowerBook could move to dual G4's.

bunge

Mar 7, 2002, 09:42 AM

Energy Saving could easily shut down one of the two processors when not plugged into a wall. This would eliminate some of the heat and power problems a dual PowerBook would create.

jefhatfield

Mar 7, 2002, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by blakespot

I would most definitely not hold my breath for a dual processor powerbook. In laptops power usage is of incredible importance and is an area that adding a second processor would just make no sense.

blakespot

this is so true

now if the laptop had this super futuristic battery that could handle that...then fine

but my guess is that a dualie g4 laptop would get less than two hours from the current battery...assuming one is running apps that use both processors at the same time

personally, i can't stand a laptop with any less than three hours on a single charge and the idea of carrying around an extra battery sucks big time

so dualie g4...fine for the future, but not right now thank you

eyelikeart

Mar 7, 2002, 10:01 AM

I doubt it...

The Ti heats up too, too, too much to be able to handle dual processors. Unless motorola developed a heat-resistant, low-power-drainage processor (and we all know Motorola's track record in chip development these days!)....this just seems like an idea more than a reality...

jefhatfield

Mar 7, 2002, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by eyelikeart
I doubt it...

The Ti heats up too, too, too much to be able to handle dual processors. Unless motorola developed a heat-resistant, low-power-drainage processor (and we all know Motorola's track record in chip development these days!)....this just seems like an idea more than a reality...

hey eye,

i know what you mean by hot

from my techie manuals, the hottest mobile chip ever was the now defunct amd k6-II which i have in my old pc laptop...it ran so hot that i used to use it as kind of a lapwarmer on those cold northern califrnia mornings

it is a wonder that the plastic has not melted yet and if the laptop were made out of metal, there would be lawsuits due to second degree burns... or at least anybody with a 98/99 era k6-II could turn it over after a couple or hours and cook lunch on it...hey, a real dual usage machine...i should patent it

my 366 k-II gets so hot that a techie reviewer benched a severely overheated 366 at the speed in a pentium 1 range! (i wish i saved the cnet or zd article)

eyelikeart

Mar 7, 2002, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by jefhatfield
... or at least anybody with a 98/99 era k6-II could turn it over after a couple or hours and cook lunch on it...hey, a real dual usage machine...i should patent it

is that what they mean when they say "Multi-tasking?"

:p he he he...

jefhatfield

Mar 7, 2002, 10:38 AM

how this one for multitasking eye,

now if we wanted to heat the whole building, we could get a whole bunch of desktop 486 chips...that would do the job

now we are talking hot, and the mobile g4 is a vitual air conditioner in comparison, but it's just that laptop battery technology is still in the dark ages...so a dual g4 laptop running, let's say, 5 hours on a battery is still a myth (unless that battery weighs five pounds and we are back to 10 pound laptops):p

AlphaTech

Mar 7, 2002, 10:54 AM

Unless they utilize some kind of active cooling system in the laptop, there is no way it can work. With the size/form factor of the TiBook, that is not all that practical. Have you seen what they did to the heat sink and such on the dual G4 500 desktop's??? Granted the chips use less power now, but I can't see them producing all that much less heat, if any.

You can forget about wearing shorts with the TiBook on your lap for any length of time. It gets hot enough to singe hair, and I have the proof of that. Even jeans are not enough sometimes, or after an hour or so.

I would like to know what the people that put these messages up on the web are smoking (the original site, not the post here) so that I can get some. Maybe that would do some other reality warping in my area... like make peecee's actually easy to use... I won't hold my breathe.

jefhatfield

Mar 8, 2002, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by AlphaTech
Unless they utilize some kind of active cooling system in the laptop, there is no way it can work. With the size/form factor of the TiBook, that is not all that practical. Have you seen what they did to the heat sink and such on the dual G4 500 desktop's??? Granted the chips use less power now, but I can't see them producing all that much less heat, if any.

You can forget about wearing shorts with the TiBook on your lap for any length of time. It gets hot enough to singe hair, and I have the proof of that. Even jeans are not enough sometimes, or after an hour or so.

I would like to know what the people that put these messages up on the web are smoking (the original site, not the post here) so that I can get some. Maybe that would do some other reality warping in my area... like make peecee's actually easy to use... I won't hold my breathe.

correct me if i seem wrong, but i think it actually possible for a dual g4 tibook AFTER a g5 desktop, and sometime in very late 2002 or more likely in 2003...any dual g4 tibook now is out of the question unfortunately

things come very slowly for apple and while i think the new imac was great, i could have stood to seen it come out a year or more earlier

what do you guys/gals think?

exbox

Mar 15, 2002, 12:48 PM

I really don't think apple will release a dual g4 powerbook. The current powerbooks already run very hot. The heat given off two chips would probably be enough to heat my house! My G4 powerbook right now burnt out its speakers because I left it on for two long!

King Cobra

Mar 15, 2002, 03:57 PM

Here are some other reasons why Apple will not make a Powerbook G4 with two processors w/o the problem of heat:
(1) The current single processors in PBG4s drain the battery power in around 4 hours or less. Two processors may mean an absolute maximum of 3 hours, if the Powerbook ran 24-7.
(2) Two processors (let's say, 600MHz) would increase the price of the Powerbook dramatically.
(3) Dual processors are specially designed for the Powermacs, (I think) because Apple wants to keep the power and speed in the Powermacs. Otherwise, it may kill Powermac sales.

We probably will not see a dual G4 in the Powerbook because once Apple has the G5 standard in their PowerMacs, Apple will move them to the Powerbook.

krossfyter

Mar 15, 2002, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by exbox
I really don't think apple will release a dual g4 powerbook. The current powerbooks already run very hot. The heat given off two chips would probably be enough to heat my house! My G4 powerbook right now burnt out its speakers because I left it on for two long!

Thats just messed up. Nothing worse than a handicapped tibook because of heat issues.

So let me ask you the obvious question.... "What exactly was this powerbook doing, when you left in on too long?....ie. programs on, jobs, whatever...and how long exaclty was it on? Im assuming you have the frist tibook model...right?

spikey

Mar 15, 2002, 04:16 PM

I dont think it will happen just because it isnt an apple priority.
think about it, they should catch up to PCs first.

krossfyter

Mar 15, 2002, 04:20 PM

ohh... how are they lacking behind pcs?

AlphaTech

Mar 15, 2002, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by krossfyter
ohh... how are they lacking behind pcs?

In being royal pain's to configure... Mac laptops are a breeze compared to peecee laptops to set up for people...

Just a fact man.

krossfyter

Mar 15, 2002, 04:36 PM

no i believe you alpha tech... im not questioning macs puters.

spikey was just saying that the powerbooks are lacking behind pcs...i assume he was talking about speed and or quality.

Macmaniac

Mar 15, 2002, 04:39 PM

OWWWWW MY LEGS THEY BURN!
That would be so hot it would melt the case.

mischief

Mar 15, 2002, 04:45 PM

would be like that run from the car to the water at the beach when the sand is like 120F or so.........I guess it would be good for improving WPM.:D

krossfyter

Mar 15, 2002, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Macmaniac
OWWWWW MY LEGS THEY BURN!
That would be so hot it would melt the case.

you may have the rev a. if you have the rev b ones..then either a) you are leaving them on to long doing photoshop filters and exporting movies and or burning cds..... for the case to melt or b) you are wearing shorts and are sensitive....with no case melt.

i see your point...however... the powerbooks are impressive.
the proccessors in the laptop are of a higher quality then the pcs craptop proccessors. if you want less in the quality but more on the number quantity and just care about doing mnor things with you laptop...then the pcs craptops are for you. the powerbooks are like a porsche or ferrari...of course the engine is going rock it. if one cares about not rocking it with thier laptop then go for the cold low powered geo metros....known in the computer world as the pc craptops.

King Cobra

Mar 15, 2002, 04:49 PM

True, PCs seem to have the edge on MHz (667 compared to 2000MHz).

But, think of it this way. A portable Pentium 4 uses the chip as a 64-bit processor, while the G4 in the Powerbooks have 128 bit (sometimes 256 bit) data pathways, which enable around four times more data to be carried about.

Besides, MHz/GHz is just part of the battle for consumer sales of computers. The flops in the computer make a difference. (One flop is a floating point operation in one second.) If I am not wrong, a 2000MHz P4 could do around 300 megaflops, but a 667 G4 Powerbook could preform at least a gigaflop (1000 megaflops). That what makes the Powerbook G4 a portable supercomputer and a P4, well, a P4!
________________________

Bill Gates: All you need to upload pictures from your camera is a fast PC and some boring software.

KC: Well I have a Mac, and the software I use operates in OS 10. Does that make me better than you?

krossfyter

Mar 15, 2002, 04:50 PM

i just cant believe how many times in here one hows to truthfully defend the quality of the macs over pcs...REGARDLESS of the number issue.

it just seems sometimes people just dont get it and they still are looking at these numbers. i would think...sure..thats understandable for pc users...but from mac users...come on....i thought we were versed on this number game.

not trying to flame or anything. so its cool!

Catfish_Man

Mar 15, 2002, 07:10 PM

Originally posted by jefhatfield

hey eye,

i know what you mean by hot

from my techie manuals, the hottest mobile chip ever was the now defunct amd k6-II which i have in my old pc laptop...it ran so hot that i used to use it as kind of a lapwarmer on those cold northern califrnia mornings

it is a wonder that the plastic has not melted yet and if the laptop were made out of metal, there would be lawsuits due to second degree burns... or at least anybody with a 98/99 era k6-II could turn it over after a couple or hours and cook lunch on it...hey, a real dual usage machine...i should patent it

my 366 k-II gets so hot that a techie reviewer benched a severely overheated 366 at the speed in a pentium 1 range! (i wish i saved the cnet or zd article)

Someone recently cooked an egg on an AthlonXP, it was pretty funny. They draw ~70 watts of power......... horrible isn't it? Still, they're fast.

kiwi_the_iwik

Mar 16, 2002, 04:06 AM

A friend of mine at school about 20 years ago (whew! that's going back!), who was a "backyard programmer" had this bright idea of connecting his Sinclair Spectrum 48k (remember those?!? Check out www.emulation.net if you need a refresher!) to his bedroom circuitry - to control his TV, lights, radio and alarm (upon reflection, pretty sad, really).

The program he wrote worked fine in trials, so he decided to leave the computer on overnight, for it's first real test...

...The next morning, he awoke to the acrid smell of burning rubber and plastic; only to find that his pride and joy had turned into a pancake of melted metal and polymers - like some form of macabre tribute to Salvador Dali.

And to add insult to injury, he'd overslept too.

It's interesting to see the heat issue is still causing problems after all these years...;)

AlphaTech

Mar 16, 2002, 10:24 AM

Fortunately, today, most computers have safety measures in them to prevent such a thing from happening. If a computer starts to get too hot, it shuts itself off, usually after sounding an alarm (not the smoke/fire detector either).

jefhatfield

Mar 16, 2002, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Catfish_Man

Someone recently cooked an egg on an AthlonXP, it was pretty funny. They draw ~70 watts of power......... horrible isn't it? Still, they're fast.

k6-2 will cook two eggs ;-)

hottest recent processor

stoid

Mar 16, 2002, 04:09 PM

The government has been searching for an alternate power source for years now. Why not just overclock a bunch of old computers and throw 'em in a pile??

hehehe

germanknee

Mar 16, 2002, 04:33 PM

spikey is right.

macs should do some more catching up to pc speed. pcs are faster in most areas. macs win in photoshop and maybe video editing, but that's all i'm aware of.

macs win everything else (os, ease of use, coolness factor, etc.) except for gaming.

jefhatfield

Mar 18, 2002, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by germanknee
spikey is right.

macs should do some more catching up to pc speed. pcs are faster in most areas. macs win in photoshop and maybe video editing, but that's all i'm aware of.

macs win everything else (os, ease of use, coolness factor, etc.) except for gaming.

i agree...but unofortunately, speed is still a "selling factor" in personal computers so apple needs to catch up to some degree

i believe once apple gets all their desktops and laptops over 1 ghz, consumers will be more willing to go apple...today, anything less than 1 ghz sounds too slow...except for the specialized ultra portable machines which are sold for their size and wieght, not speed

i believe moto has slowed apple up on this speed war but since the dual 1 ghz tower, apple has finally put one of their four machines in the "correct" side of the fence for the rather uneducated average consumer

for me, i would still buy a 800 mhz imac over a 3 ghz dell...even at the same price because i look at features and ease of use/maintenance and i am sure that's what most of you here look for, too...but unfortunately, only people like us cannot keep apple afloat forever

AlphaTech

Mar 18, 2002, 01:06 PM

jefhatfield has some valid points. It really is unfortunate that people purchasing computers look only at the speed in terms of MHz/GHz.

I firmly believe that the currnet G3 chips (700MHz+) beat the stuffing out of any of the celeron chips.

In the tasks that I need to perform on a daily basis at work, the 733MHz G4 on my desk does them just as well, if not better, then the new 1HGz+ p3/p4 systems we get coming on (very few of those).

I am will be looking to get a second Mac system sometime either this summer (after MWNY) or early next year (about this time actually). It would be sweet if Apple was to come out with GHz+ G4 laptops, or G5 desktops by then... or even engineer up the dual GHz TiBook (drool).

They do have laptop stands with fans built in so that you can get a constant flow of air around them. That might be standard equipment with a dual TiBook to get rid of the excess heat.

Time will tell as to what comes out next. All we can really do is hope and keep our fingers crossed that Apple will do it right.

SubFredZero

Mar 18, 2002, 01:30 PM

Dual Powerbook in your dreams.... What's next, the octo G4 and quatro iMac ?

jefhatfield

Mar 18, 2002, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by SubFredZero
Dual Powerbook in your dreams.... What's next, the octo G4 and quatro iMac ?

then somebody needs to make a battery that will power two chips for at least four hours in a tibook...any less will piss off the mac set

in most instances, both chips will not to utilized

pc laptop users are and have always been used to less than three hours and never really complained too mightily about it

folks, in some ways, we are falling behind the pc industry

lambroghini was a great car with a small market share but they didn't cater to average users like other competing companies like maserati and porsche which had some middle line models...in the end chrysler bought lambroghini...lets hope M$ or dell or hp-compaq doesn't buy apple

what if acura only made the nsx or cars like it...it's like apple not making a 500 dollar computer (that portion of the market is gigantic)

apple has a good high and middle end, but no low end (sub 500 dollars usd...sub 1000 dollar laptops)

AlphaTech

Mar 18, 2002, 04:23 PM

If Apple uses G4 chips that have less power draw then the current ones in the TiBooks (not sure if there are ones that draw 50% of the current or not), then a new battery may not be needed. If a dual processor model uses the same amount of power as the current singles do, then that is all that is needed. Does anyone happen to know offhand if they generate gobs of heat (the mobile version, not desktop).

We can all dream of the days of a DP TiBook, but only Apple can make it happen.

Mr. Anderson

Mar 18, 2002, 04:29 PM

Something to think about. Its not exactly a new idea, and would require a reworking of the chip, but by putting multiple processors on a single chip heating might be less of an issue, especially if the two processors share some of the same resorces.

AlphaTech

Mar 18, 2002, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by dukestreet
Something to think about. Its not exactly a new idea, and would require a reworking of the chip, but by putting multiple processors on a single chip heating might be less of an issue, especially if the two processors share some of the same resorces.

That is pretty much how Apple is doing it. Two processors on a single card that share many components. Unlike peecee's that actually use two seperate chips in the dp systems.