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MacRumors
Feb 8, 2007, 04:18 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

In a recent interview with Wired (http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/02/xblas_greg_cane.html), Greg Canessa, the ex-General Manager of XBox Live Arcade, and now Vice President of video game platforms at PopCap games indicates that his role at PopCap will be to help proliferate their games onto multiple platforms, including the Apple TV.

Itís a broad in scope role. It encompasses everything from vision and strategy to execution and marketing. It will all be part of my group and charter. Business development will be part of that as well. It will be about taking the stable of franchises and games out of PopCap's studio and adapting, customizing it for different platforms -- adding multiplayer, new play modes, HD, customizing the user interface and display for Zune, ipod, Apple TV, Nintendo DS, PSP.

Currently, Apple specifically states that games designed for the iPod will not play on the Apple TV. However, the apparent slip-up is reminiscent of previous claims by analyst Jesse Tortora (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/12/05/apple-video-game-console/) that Apple will begin to compete in the video game console market to counter pressure from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to dominate the living room.



roland.g
Feb 8, 2007, 04:20 PM
That would be interesting to see. But it's 5th on my list behind movies, music, photos, and trailers.

Eraserhead
Feb 8, 2007, 04:22 PM
Seeing Apples "excellent" gaming reputation I can't see it happening, it would be far more sensible to partner with another player in the game already (most likely Nintendo) to make a device that does both.

Sean7512
Feb 8, 2007, 04:23 PM
I'm enjoying my Wii too much to care. But, I'd definitely have to take a look at it :apple:

ghall
Feb 8, 2007, 04:23 PM
Apple will be crushed like a bug in the video game market. Apple will need to partner up with Nintendo if they are going to make any sort of impact on the industry.

Edit: I will probably eat my words in a year or so.

Raid
Feb 8, 2007, 04:25 PM
Currently, Apple specifically states that games designed for the iPod will not play on the Apple TV. However, the apparent slip-up is reminiscent of previous claims by analyst Jesse Tortora (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/12/05/apple-video-game-console/) that Apple will begin to compete in the video game console market to counter pressure from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to dominate the living room.Well since I'm in the "The :apple: TV needs more functionality" camp, any added feature is a blessing, though IMHO a PVR/TiVo like ablity would target a broader customer base. But right now I don't think it's really in the cards with iTunes actually selling shows I could record if I had an :apple: PVR. :(

Telp
Feb 8, 2007, 04:28 PM
I'd love to see Apple team up with Sony. That would be one kick ass system. :D

KingYaba
Feb 8, 2007, 04:30 PM
Don't forget those apple-ps3 rumors. :rolleyes:

~Shard~
Feb 8, 2007, 04:30 PM
I think Apple would be spreading themselves too thin if they entered into this market. Computers, fine - MP3 players, fine - STBs, fine - phones, sure, give it a go - but gaming as well? On the one hand it would be in alignment with Apple's new corporate name and implied direction, however as a company Apple can only do so much - or more specifically, can only do so much and do it well. :cool:

patrick0brien
Feb 8, 2007, 04:30 PM
I suppose it's possible. After all the :apple:TV is essentially a Network Computer with Video outs and an HD.

It does have a USB port, lots can be done with that.

the ecosystem could be that you DL games from iTunes, the :apple:TV will sync them in, and you'd have a Belkin controller hooked to a USB hub connected to the device - don't see why not.

~Shard~
Feb 8, 2007, 04:35 PM
I suppose it's possible. After all the :apple:TV is essentially a Network Computer with Video outs and an HD.

It does have a USB port, lots can be done with that.

the ecosystem could be that you DL games from iTunes, the :apple:TV will sync them in, and you'd have a Belkin controller hooked to a USB hub connected to the device - don't see why not.

Yeah, it wouldn't be too bad it that was their delivery strategy and the scope was contained to existing and/or simpler games, however I still don't know if this would be a good idea. Macs, Leopard, other software, iPods, the AppleTV and most notably the iPhone - let's just say Apple has a lot on their plate right now and I'd hate to see one of their product lines start slipping due to yet another initaitive such as this.

But hey, if they can pull it off, good for them! ;)

Seasought
Feb 8, 2007, 04:35 PM
Bah, I just want to see an OS X native EVE Online client (or Linux/BSD in general for that matter).

Dont Hurt Me
Feb 8, 2007, 04:36 PM
If Apple was smart they would team up with Microsoft, there are a zillion games for the platform and just as many coming. Apple history with games .......well sucks turds and thats being nice. Who the heck is going to run out for Apple TV when it cant even play TV as far as I can tell? Then expect it to be a game platform? Please.

Proto Media
Feb 8, 2007, 04:39 PM
I wrote all about this a long time ago and all of you laughed at me and said it would never happen and asked me if I was drunk and what I was smoking. Who's smoking now!? thanks shard

click here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=239532)

macfan881
Feb 8, 2007, 04:41 PM
apple would never team up with microsoft and i personally think had :apple: stuck with Ibm i think we would be running osX as well as linux on ps3 right now and also would belive that :apple: tv would be a add on for both right now imagine the possibltys :)

~Shard~
Feb 8, 2007, 04:42 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned the Pippin yet! :eek: :p ;) :D

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/3730/applepippinek2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

twoodcc
Feb 8, 2007, 04:43 PM
i would love to Apple enter this market.....but i think it would be tough for them. who knows though

~Shard~
Feb 8, 2007, 04:43 PM
How's smoking now!?

I don't know, how is it? :confused:

:p :cool:

nxent
Feb 8, 2007, 04:46 PM
Apple will be crushed like a bug in the video game market. Apple will need to partner up with Nintendo if they are going to make any sort of impact on the industry.

Edit: I will probably eat my words in a year or so.

come on apple, you know you want to team up with nintendo.. come on, do it. DO IT!

vincebio
Feb 8, 2007, 04:47 PM
too much too fast for apple i think....a mac now and then would be good as well

Thanatoast
Feb 8, 2007, 04:47 PM
Okay, putting pop-cap games onto the appleTV is no more "entering into the home console market" than putting them on the iPod is trying to compete against the DS or PSP. It's just a couple of simple games to pass the time.

Proto Media
Feb 8, 2007, 04:48 PM
I don't know, how is it? :confused:

:p :cool:


ok so what I was smoking...

SpudNYC
Feb 8, 2007, 04:51 PM
I can't imagine Apple TV will ever be a competiter to the big game platforms. Boxes like XBOX 360 and PS3 are almost full-blown computers. Apple TV is a wireless video adapter for your HDTV. If the rumors that it will push your desktop to the TV are true, then it'd be a simple matter to push your Mac games there too. All you'd need is a wireless controller.

Peace
Feb 8, 2007, 04:53 PM
Apple Computer,Inc. is now Apple,Inc. so who knows.

J Radical
Feb 8, 2007, 05:13 PM
Unless the :apple: TV has a graphics chip, a fair amount of RAM and a speedy processor this will never happen. The thing doesn't even have an optical drive FFS.

Teaming up with nintendo would be the only way to go, but I can't see it happening. If you want to make :apple: TV dominate the living room give it a bigger HD and use it as a home server.

weldon
Feb 8, 2007, 05:15 PM
I think it would be great if you could also sync your iPod games from iTunes to the :apple: TV, but the sad truth is that the :apple: TV doesn't have a controller that would allow you to play the games.

hvfsl
Feb 8, 2007, 05:25 PM
Well the specs of the AppleTV make it close to the speed of the Nintendo Wii.

1Ghz Pentium M
Geforce 7400Go 64MB
256MB RAM

So gaming is possible.

The silly thing is that the Apple TV has a better graphics card than the Mini and Macbook.

richard4339
Feb 8, 2007, 05:26 PM
Perhaps PopCap simply meant that they are looking to see if its possible to put their games on the AppleTV? Even the Apple remote could work for Bejeweled...

bilbo--baggins
Feb 8, 2007, 05:27 PM
The Apple TV could probably compete well against the Atari consoles from the 80's. I really cannot see it doing anything more than basic 'iPod' type games. Just a 'bonus' feature. It's never going to be a gaming console as far as I can see.

gregorsamsa
Feb 8, 2007, 05:43 PM
IMO, Apple would fare much better getting OS X to match Vista's support of DirectX 10 graphics, which will provide PCs with awesome gaming potential in future, by enabling the same in Leopard. This would help Mac-native gaming immensely & is very likely to increase Mac market share amongst home users. Improving the graphics capability in their consumer Macs would also be vital.

Having Apple TV serving up more Pacman-type stuff (maybe call it Macman?) simply ain't the way to go!

Avatar74
Feb 8, 2007, 06:00 PM
If the slip from the VP is literally true, it's possible, then, that AppleTV has been the killer app all along and that the absence of it at MacWorld was to keep it under the radar so MS doesn't catch on that they're targeting everything from Media Center to XBOX.

I've pointed out repeatedly on other forums that if AppleTV is any one thing, it's a bridge that can, in principle, facilitate any kind of media content. It's not a DVR, not a server, not a tumor... It's a bridge that connects your home entertainment system to your computer network, to facilitate access to really any kind of media that can be viewed, heard or audiovisually interacted with.

Granted, it doesn't seem like the ideal console but Apple is excellent at redefining how we think of and use technology. I'm very close to someone who turned down an opportunity to manage operations of the Cell Broadband Engine development for the PS3. One of the original concepts included developing the PS3 as an embedded technology in other home entertainment components to facilitate internet-based game purchasing, network play and things like that.

Sony dropped that concept but it still could work if deployed properly with the right support from gaming developers who fully "get" the concept... who get what this type of model needs to successfully supplant the existing game console model.

Proto Media
Feb 8, 2007, 06:10 PM
so everyone is talking about how their would be limited control because of the apple remote and that :apple: tv will not be able to have that high quality games. I got to thinking, what about gambling. I always play full tilt poker with my friends, I think it would be easy to port over texas holdem, blackjack, all those casino games that only take like one or two buttons anyways. I think it would be really cool to play poker on my tv online with a bunch of other people, and to control it I have the apple remote. anyones thoughts?

Avatar74
Feb 8, 2007, 06:20 PM
so everyone is talking about how their would be limited control because of the apple remote and that :apple: tv will not be able to have that high quality games. I got to thinking, what about gambling. I always play full tilt poker with my friends, I think it would be easy to port over texas holdem, blackjack, all those casino games that only take like one or two buttons anyways. I think it would be really cool to play poker on my tv online with a bunch of other people, and to control it I have the apple remote. anyones thoughts?

It seems it never occurred to anyone that Apple may deliberately have withheld discussion about all the potential functions of the USB port or IR sensor... Console controller anyone?

Sure, someone's going to say "But Apple said..." Yeah, but USB and IR can be configured to serve a number of functions and frankly no one here knows how the thing is internally wired or what the firmware is like... and even after release, if the firmware shows no signs of supporting a game controller it doesn't mean that Apple isn't keeping a future firmware/software upgrade secret until, let's say, if and when they launch gaming.

MrCrowbar
Feb 8, 2007, 06:24 PM
Unless the :apple: TV has a graphics chip, a fair amount of RAM and a speedy processor this will never happen. The thing doesn't even have an optical drive FFS.

Teaming up with nintendo would be the only way to go, but I can't see it happening. If you want to make :apple: TV dominate the living room give it a bigger HD and use it as a home server.

Now check on the hardware inside the Wii. I bet the Apple TV is a little more powerful.

gregorsamsa
Feb 8, 2007, 06:25 PM
If the slip from the VP is literally true, it's possible, then, that AppleTV has been the killer app all along and that the absence of it at MacWorld was to keep it under the radar so MS doesn't catch on that they're targeting everything from Media Center to XBOX.

I don't see it that way at all. Considering that Apple can't even be bothered to properly market OS X beyond a few dodgy internet ads, how do you think they'll stand a chance against Xbox 360 & the massive marketing campaign MS have launched behind their console?

As an all round entertainment & media centre, Xbox 360 would take some beating.

kadajawi
Feb 8, 2007, 06:39 PM
Gaming? With a... what's in the box? A Pentium M? Yeah right. Maybe some very simple games, but even the Wii is better equipped (well, it has a 3D chip), and that one can only compete because of it's innovative controller and games, which I don't see for the :apple: TV. XBOX 360 and PS3 are high end machines, Apple cannot compete with them. Also, except for the Wii all competitors have to pay for every console sold. Can Apple afford that?

Of course that's if Apple wants to compete with the big consoles... for simple quick mostly 2D games the :apple: TV should be enough.

Bonte
Feb 8, 2007, 06:55 PM
Is it a coincidence that Apple wont show us the remote that is shipped with the :apple: TV? Just maybe its a new remote with a real iPod-like scroll wheel, the total experience would be so much bigger and we can play all our iPod games. :)

Apple is selling lots of iPod games so bringing them to other platforms is a smart move but i don't see them making specific :apple: TV games (not simple enough) nor teaming up with a game company and certainly not using a gamepad.

bommai
Feb 8, 2007, 06:57 PM
I just bought a PS3 primarily for the Bluray DVD playing capability. I am a HD nut. I bought the 20GB $499 version. This thing rocks. The quality is phenomenal.

For $499 it has the following

1) Cell processor running at > 3GHz. It has something like 8 cores. Simple ones though.
2) Slot loading Bluray drive. Plays DVD-Video, Audio-CD, SACD, BD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R, etc. No HD-DVD and I don't care.
3) Crazy fast graphics processor with at least 256 MB of RAM
4) Bluetooth
5) Four USB ports
6) Ethernet port
7) HDMI 1.3
8) Optical audio output
9) Bluetooth controller with rechargeable battery (recharge using USB).
10) 20GB user upgradeable 2.5" SATA HD.
11) I almost forgot - it plays games in upto 1080p resolution.
12) It plays MPEG2, MPEG4 including H.264, AAC audio, etc.

While the hardware is impressive for $499, the software does need work as far as a media console goes. The BD-ROM playback is awesome. DVD-Video, CD-Audio playback is also awesome.

It has rudimentary web browser. It does firmware upgrades through the network.

It does not however recognize any media stored in the local network. It is begging for Apple integration. What if we could merge the functionality of Apple TV into PS3. The hardware can easily handle it. What's even better is that the PS3 has bluetooth built-in and they sell a Bluetooth DVD remote. I bought this too and it is great.

Apple - Sony. You need each other in this. To battle microsoft.
In fact, if Apple sells a media server software for Windows and Mac that will integrate with the PS3 for even $50, it will be a hit. Think about it. The user can buy a PS3 (for which Sony loses money on) and then buy Apple's media server software ($50). If the user buys Apple TV, the media server is free.

Gamers can choose PS3. Non gamers can choose Apple TV. High end people can choose PS3, lower end people can choose Apple TV.

Knowing that Apple likes to develop their own hardware, I don't have any confidence this will ever happen, but I give kudos to Sony. The PS3 is a great machine.

Peace
Feb 8, 2007, 06:58 PM
Perhaps the new widescreen iPod will act as a game controller too ?

dernhelm
Feb 8, 2007, 06:59 PM
I can't believe no one has mentioned the Pippin yet! :eek: :p ;) :D

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/3730/applepippinek2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Darn, you're too quick for me. It's the first thing I thought of when I saw the article. BTW - I like to new 'tar, but I liked the old one better. Can I use it if you're done? ;)

dernhelm
Feb 8, 2007, 07:01 PM
Perhaps the new widescreen iPod will act as a game controller too ?

Now that would be cool.

But I still maintain they will need a partnership with Nintendo to produce something that anyone would actually buy for the purpose of gaming.

x704
Feb 8, 2007, 07:05 PM
Don't forget that there are lots of people involved with making a decision to make or upgrade a product. If those people think that Apple will make money doing it, then that is their choice. I don't necessarly think it would be a bad one.

It seems to me that some large companies multitask better than others. At least now, in the present, it looks like Apple might be one of those better multitasking companies.

joemama
Feb 8, 2007, 07:05 PM
XBOX 360 and PS3 are high end machines, Apple cannot compete with them. Also, except for the Wii all competitors have to pay for every console sold.

Why is graphics everyone's main concern? At what point do we stop basing systems on graphic potential? What happens when game machines are so powerful it's like real life? Then what? How about quality of play or interactivity?

Now I have no numbers or statistics to back this up, but from my observations it seems the Wii is outselling the PS3. Nintendo hit it right - Stop worry about graphics and concentrate on GAMING experience. I teach, and not one of my students talk about the PS3. All talk is about the Wii and how much fun it is to play.

While I don't think Apple needs to branch out into new markets, the Apple TV is quite a powerful little machine. I think we all see games being downloaded in the future - maybe Apple has something up it's sleeve.

ChrisA
Feb 8, 2007, 07:06 PM
It seems it never occurred to anyone that Apple may deliberately have withheld discussion about all the potential functions of the USB port or IR sensor... Console controller anyone?

Or the wireless "g" and "n". A network controller would be a great idea

iPoodOverZune
Feb 8, 2007, 07:12 PM
Folks,
off-topic here, but recently there was a report of coming iPhone killer in a week's time and I pasted a link at that time. Seems like this is the one.

http://www.playfuls.com/news_06129_Samsung_Unveils_iPhone_Killer_with_3G_Support_F700.html

It bests the iPhone in many features but features has been there on many phone yet they are clunky at interfaces. It remains to be seen how this samsung baby will marvel. Sorry no price mention though :)

zap2
Feb 8, 2007, 07:18 PM
Not yet, rock the phone market first. Get a few more phones in the cell phone market first, reach your goal...then look at new markets

EagerDragon
Feb 8, 2007, 07:24 PM
This is an outsider making a prediction. Why some people have their panties in a bunch?

Going against Sony, Microsoft and other in the game industry does not make a lot of sense without a lot of game publishers behind you. On top of that there is no money on the consoles at least not yet, the money is in the games. Apple may make some relativly simple games for the Apple TV but don't expect a 3D shooter or a big time multi-player game. A least not for at least 3 years at the earliest.
Its not the hardware that wins it, its the games and for that you need publishers behind you.

Stridder44
Feb 8, 2007, 07:46 PM
It's not a DVR, not a server, not a tumor...

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4424/ohoq9.jpg

I just bought a PS3 primarily for the Bluray DVD playing capability. I am a HD nut. I bought the 20GB $499 version. This thing rocks. The quality is phenomenal.

For $499 it has the following

7) HDMI 1.3...


I thought HDMI 1.3 wasn't even out yet.

AMIGA 500
Feb 8, 2007, 07:57 PM
I had a bit of an out there thought.... I was thinking that one of the secrets to Leopard could be a new gaming environment. This turns every mac (prob intel only) into a gaming station. This would instantly put a gaming pltform into the hands of millions of Apple users. The :apple: TV will provide the link to your Television and a Wireless Controllers will be used over your home network. This would be great added marketing for Leopard and also the :apple: TV

maximile
Feb 8, 2007, 07:58 PM
Score!

I'm sorry for spamming, but I can't help gloating a tiny bit: http://www.maximile.net/blog/?p=46 (It's a post I wrote on January 20th, outlining how I think games on the Apple TV would work.) Now if only someone had read it at the time... ;)

thejadedmonkey
Feb 8, 2007, 08:02 PM
If you want to make :apple: TV dominate the living room give it a bigger HD and use it as a home server.

Like the X-Box 360?

A is jump
Feb 8, 2007, 08:26 PM
oooo... what about a touch screen Controller!? one where the buttons change depending on the game, or depending on what is happening in the game?!

it would be incredible for strategy games, or puzzle games.... come to think of it, that would be incredible for just about any game.

Curtis72
Feb 8, 2007, 08:27 PM
I have an Apple TV on order and if it does support iPod Games, then I'd welcome it. More functionality without any additional cost except for the $5 games.

But why is there so much comparisons of Apple TV to XBox, Sony Playstation, or Nintendo game consoles?

Nothing in the original interview said anything about "high end" video gaming capabilities?

And if Apple is target the high end gaming market, it will not be with the Apple TV. But some other :apple: product.

A is jump
Feb 8, 2007, 08:34 PM
Like the X-Box 360?

right... only, not so expensive... cooler... like the Wii. more focus on the experience, less geeky. Xboxs are for geeky gamers with bad mustaches... kind of guys that also play D&D, collect Pokemon cards and wear tint glasses. ha ha.. ;]

oh I can see the Ads now!

Doctor Q
Feb 8, 2007, 08:51 PM
Maybe :apple:TV isn't powerful enough for the high-end games that the serious gamers demand, but maybe, at long last, with Apple's help, we'll finally be able to play Pong on our TV sets. :rolleyes:

Even if they aren't the cream of the crop, having any games for :apple:TV will help sell the product.

eddyg
Feb 8, 2007, 08:53 PM
Hi,

I don't think the :apple:TV needs to compete with the gaming machines. It's a remote front end for streaming stuff from your Mac, first and foremost. Apple want people to buy Macs as well as :apple:TV.

Maybe not all the existing :apple:TV owners have or want a gaming machine, but would like the occasional game. Then the :apple:TV could easily facilitate that.

It's like the iPod, who buys an iPod for the games, but they are kinda nice now and then when bored silly.

To sweeten the deal I'm sure Apple will introduce games on to the :apple:TV, it's got a big enough HD to download them, and it can easily have a wired or wireless controller added via the USB port.

I for one am looking forward to see what they intend to do. Being in NZ I should be one of the first to get the :apple:TV, 2nd of March :)

Cheers, Ed.

eddyg
Feb 8, 2007, 08:55 PM
Maybe :apple:TV isn't powerful enough for the high-end games that the serious gamers demand, but maybe, at long last, with Apple's help, we'll finally be able to play Pong on our TV sets. :rolleyes:

Even if they aren't the cream of the crop, having any games for :apple:TV will help sell the product.

You mean like the Wii isn't powerful enough? Which it isn't in comparison with the Xbox360 and PS3. However it has very playable and addictive games.

So just maybe the appeal of a game is not in how good the graphics are but in how good the gameplay is?

Cheers, Ed.

ethansisson
Feb 8, 2007, 09:19 PM
Hmm...I doubt it. I think that Apple understands that there is not a lot of money to be made in video games in contrast to other markets. Especially considering the extreme difficulty in entering the market, this does not seem to be a direction that Apple is likely to take. Jobs himself pointed out in this year's Macworld keynote that video gaming was not money-making market.

The only thing I can see Apple doing is iPod-style games - cheap, fun games for when you're bored. I know this is kind of a given, but it seems many people think Apple may want to compete directly with the big 3 (MS, Sony, Nintendo). If they provide games for Apple TV they will not position them as direct competition to serious gaming platforms.

Stella
Feb 8, 2007, 10:20 PM
I wouldn't touch an Apple console with a barge pole.

Apple would control the 3rd party games - just like the iPhone.

Apple should keep away from games, and leave that to the others, who know what they are doing.

Games on iPod stink - horrible control.

Stella
Feb 8, 2007, 10:24 PM
Yes the Wii is plenty. Its a powerful machine - more than the XBox 1, including graphics. The graphics on Xbox 1 got pretty good - so expect more from the Wii in the future. Trouble is, so far, no games take full advantage of the Wii graphic's ability and so don't look that much better than GameCube. Game play should be more important than graphics - graphics don't make a game.

The Wii is more fun that any other console I've found - truly innovative.
1. Gameplay
2. Graphics.



You mean like the Wii isn't powerful enough? Which it isn't in comparison with the Xbox360 and PS3. However it has very playable and addictive games.

So just maybe the appeal of a game is not in how good the graphics are but in how good the gameplay is?

Cheers, Ed.

SheriffParker
Feb 8, 2007, 10:30 PM
oooo... what about a touch screen Controller!? one where the buttons change depending on the game, or depending on what is happening in the game?!

it would be incredible for strategy games, or puzzle games.... come to think of it, that would be incredible for just about any game.

Nintendo DS anyone?

Chaszmyr
Feb 9, 2007, 12:09 AM
oooo... what about a touch screen Controller!? one where the buttons change depending on the game, or depending on what is happening in the game?!

it would be incredible for strategy games, or puzzle games.... come to think of it, that would be incredible for just about any game.

Most video games require you to constantly be looking at the screen to play well, which means you need tactile feedback from the controller.

wnurse
Feb 9, 2007, 12:11 AM
come on apple, you know you want to team up with nintendo.. come on, do it. DO IT!

Maybe they already asked Nintendo but Nintendo turned them down cause Apple wanted control of all customers who bought their games, told Nintendo to commit to them without even knowing what games apple would make and also demanded that Nintendo scap their system and replace with OS X and then turn over customer serivce of the gaming system to Apple.

Perhaps Nintendo saw how Cingular got punked and passed on the opportunity.

bommai
Feb 9, 2007, 12:13 AM
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4424/ohoq9.jpg




I thought HDMI 1.3 wasn't even out yet.

The final specs for 1.3 were finalized in July 2006. PS3 is one of the first products to take advantage of that. I believe the Toshiba HD-XA2 also have 1.3. 1.3 is not a big deal since most of the equipment cannot take advantage of it anyway. However, having HDMI itself is great. I have two HDMI ports in my TV and both are used (one for PS3 and one for a HD-DVR). I still have not decided about Apple TV.

Thanatoast
Feb 9, 2007, 12:16 AM
I had a bit of an out there thought.... I was thinking that one of the secrets to Leopard could be a new gaming environment. This turns every mac (prob intel only) into a gaming station. This would instantly put a gaming pltform into the hands of millions of Apple users. The :apple: TV will provide the link to your Television and a Wireless Controllers will be used over your home network. This would be great added marketing for Leopard and also the :apple: TV

Play your computer games on your big screen tv? With the power of your home compouter behind you? Hm, now *that's* an interesting idea... :cool:

MattInOz
Feb 9, 2007, 12:16 AM
Yes the Wii is plenty. Its a powerful machine - more than the XBox 1, including graphics. The graphics on Xbox 1 got pretty good - so expect more from the Wii in the future. Trouble is, so far, no games take full advantage of the Wii graphic's ability and so don't look that much better than GameCube. Game play should be more important than graphics - graphics don't make a game.

The Wii is more fun that any other console I've found - truly innovative.
1. Gameplay
2. Graphics.

If Apple TV and Wii are speced about the same, then couldn't Apple go the other way, instead of trying to compete in crowded market, they could sell Frontrow as an software title for Wii, Xbox or PS depending on which ones it worth paying the licensing fees on.

Sure it would have to be streaming only sort of device, but it would great exposure to the young'uns. I mean it's not like apple doesn't have experience with programming PowerPC style processors.

casik
Feb 9, 2007, 12:22 AM
I'd love to see Apple team up with Sony. That would be one kick ass system. :D

That will never happen... sony is so far behind when it comes to gaming. Sony shoudl stick to home theater and thats about it. Sony has never been behind Apple and that will never happen... but when I look at video games and i see nintendo... i see the apple of computer games. that is to say nintendo is to video games as apple is to computers... they are innovative and know what they are doing... i would loooooooove to see something come out from both of them... maybe buy games of the apple store?

RMD68
Feb 9, 2007, 12:27 AM
"I'll take Apple/Bandai Pippin for $500 Alex."

Eckels
Feb 9, 2007, 12:36 AM
When I picture an apple video game console, I picture a controller that would require you to use a steering wheel and a joystick to play mario bros.

If this rumor is true, to the extent that you're all seeming to make it out to be, I think it's wholly possible that we are witnessing the beginning of the end for Apple. I just hope they have enough money to keep themselves afloat when the iPhone and an Apple Video Game Console both fail horribly.

I pray that they only intend for the Apple TV to play basic flash games, like I imagine it could do, very easily. Think Pogo on your TV. That would work fantastically, in fact. But an Apple Game Console would be like burning billions of dollars, I assure.

Disclaimer, I have no opinion whatsoever about the Wii, the PS3, or Xbox. I just think the gaming market is about to go through some seriously bad times, and it would be a huge mistake for Apple to jump into it now, and hope to compete on the same playing field as the other consoles. A TV console for flash games would fill an empty niche, on the other hand, and I think it would be a wiser move.

Ninja_Turtle
Feb 9, 2007, 12:42 AM
nintendo and apple
both inovaters and what not

i think its like this

nintendo lost terribly i think with n64 and worse with the gamecube, but they ruled with NES and SNES and DS Lite

apple also had a shady history aswell and a boosting industry.

both underdogs get together, im sure itll be a nice gadget to have.

e12a
Feb 9, 2007, 12:48 AM
Interesting... I wonder if apple will make us pay for a "game system" enabler...


you know, for the "unadvertised" features.

A is jump
Feb 9, 2007, 01:10 AM
Nintendo DS anyone?
I suppose thats true... but the DS has a stylus, and you have to use that tiny screan to play on... I"m talking about playing on a big screen TV, on more powerful machine. nobody is doing it there.

Most video games require you to constantly be looking at the screen to play well, which means you need tactile feedback from the controller.

sure... action games. what about more interactive games? maybe if you're playing mario cart or some shoot 'em up game it wouldnt be super great.
but think final fantasy, or any RPG style game, strategy games, puzzle games (think Myst) it would really make the games intense...
on your TV, the game... and in your hand, an interactive controller for the game.

dAlen
Feb 9, 2007, 01:10 AM
Apple will be crushed like a bug in the video game market. Apple will need to partner up with Nintendo if they are going to make any sort of impact on the industry.

Edit: I will probably eat my words in a year or so.


Nintendo? Its low cost, thus low graphics...it has a nitch for those that dont have the money for Sony. (I dont have the money for sony, but it doesnt mean that Nintendo all of a sudden is a true competitor...it just means there is something for folks with less money to play with, albeit much inferior in graphics to Sony.)

Having said that Apple and sony need to merge...now that would be an ultimate platform, that is using what is currently available in the market.

Peace

dAlen

dAlen
Feb 9, 2007, 01:16 AM
So just maybe the appeal of a game is not in how good the graphics are but in how good the gameplay is?

Cheers, Ed.

Graphics mean a lot to some...it does for me.
Looking at Nintendo is like looking at...Nintendo 10+ years ago.

Looking at Sony vs. Nintendo...I mean if sony sold for the same price as Nintendo, I could bet that no one would have this conversation.

People like to convince themself that they have the best of something...it comes down to money, and as I mentioned in above post, I dont have money for Sony...but Im not going to start comparing Nintendo to Sony.

And as far as game play...Not sure there is that much of a differnce in Sony vs. Wii (pretend the price is the same) to make a difference, the graphics would impact me more. - pong or a modern day interface.

(Actually pong rules.)

Peace

dAlen

A is jump
Feb 9, 2007, 01:47 AM
Nintendo? Its low cost, thus low graphics...it has a nitch for those that dont have the money for Sony. (I dont have the money for sony, but it doesnt mean that Nintendo all of a sudden is a true competitor...it just means there is something for folks with less money to play with, albeit much inferior in graphics to Sony.)

Peace

dAlen

with all due Respect, I could care less about the PS3 or Xbox360. i find nothing appealing about paying that much money to do what I could already do on their old systems.
Nintendo practically re-invented gaming as we know it.
prior to the wii, I was completely satisfied playing PS1 games or N64 games for that matter. could hardly justify paying $50 for a used game cube, certainly not for a PS2, or xbox...
but with wii out, I'm saving up my bucks... that thing is amazing.
nintendo is the Only game in town as far as I'm concerned.

and I 'd say the same thing if they were charging $500 for the wii. I'd still want it, and I'd still be saving up. Sony didn't do anything amazing with the PS3, its just a PS2 with better graphics.
if the PS3 was as cheap as the wii, I still wouldnt be interested.

Chosenbydestiny
Feb 9, 2007, 01:49 AM
Graphics mean a lot to some...it does for me.
Looking at Nintendo is like looking at...Nintendo 10+ years ago.

Looking at Sony vs. Nintendo...I mean if sony sold for the same price as Nintendo, I could bet that no one would have this conversation.

People like to convince themself that they have the best of something...it comes down to money, and as I mentioned in above post, I dont have money for Sony...but Im not going to start comparing Nintendo to Sony.

And as far as game play...Not sure there is that much of a differnce in Sony vs. Wii (pretend the price is the same) to make a difference, the graphics would impact me more. - pong or a modern day interface.

(Actually pong rules.)

Peace

dAlen

Hey if you level the prices, you've gotta level the specs too. THEN what would you appeal to?

WildPalms
Feb 9, 2007, 01:55 AM
"I'll take Apple/Bandai Pippin for $500 Alex."

Hehehehe, I caught your tongue in cheek reference there .... *chuckle*

reflex
Feb 9, 2007, 02:50 AM
come on apple, you know you want to team up with nintendo.. come on, do it. DO IT!

No, leave Nintendo alone. They're doing fine as it is :)

Carniphage
Feb 9, 2007, 03:14 AM
... for casual gaming.

The hardcore games market is saturated folks. The people who regularly buy expensive consoles and games are not increasing in numbers. The cash they spend on indulging their habit is not increasing much either. So it would be dumb to get into the money-losing pissing-contest that is the games industry at the moment.

Nintendo are smart. They are moving out of the hardcore and into casual gaming with the Wii. The advantage of the Wii is that Grandma can play too. But Grandma is not about to walk into Electronics Boutique and pick up "Deal or No Deal Kung Fu"

The AppleTV as a gaming machine is somewhere around the Xbox PS2 Wii level. In other words perfectly capable of playing "simple games" as someone put it.

It also has an internet connection and a hard drive. Which means that small games can be bought and downloaded from the itunes store in three clicks or less. All for $8.99. And all that money goes to Apple.

C.

ezekielrage_99
Feb 9, 2007, 03:34 AM
Seeing Apples "excellent" gaming reputation I can't see it happening, it would be far more sensible to partner with another player in the game already (most likely Nintendo) to make a device that does both.

I agree but I do think Apple will make more products aimed at the Home Multimedia area. Not a games machine rather a unit for TV/Music/DVDs/Net/ect and yes I am aware there is the Mac Mini and Apple TV before people start commenting.

I think simple gaming on the Apple TV would be a very nice bonus and probably intice me to think about buying one.

Zzzoom
Feb 9, 2007, 03:39 AM
Bah, I just want to see an OS X native EVE Online client (or Linux/BSD in general for that matter).

I second that.:D

bryanc
Feb 9, 2007, 05:54 AM
Apple will be crushed like a bug in the video game market. Apple will need to partner up with Nintendo if they are going to make any sort of impact on the industry.

Edit: I will probably eat my words in a year or so.


I would love to see Apple partner with Nintendo to make something casual-gamer-friendly, like the Wii. I've never had much interest in consoles, but I'm on the verge of buying a Wii. If Apple has something like this up their sleeve, they could carve a new niche for themselves.

Cheers

Hattig
Feb 9, 2007, 06:24 AM
nintendo lost terribly i think with n64 and worse with the gamecube, but they ruled with NES and SNES and DS Lite


Nintendo sold the same number of Gamecubes as Microsoft sold XBoxes.

Nintendo made a massive profit. Microsoft made a massive loss. Sony rampaged due to third party support and exclusives.

Who lost terribly again?

hakala01
Feb 9, 2007, 06:43 AM
Okay, putting pop-cap games onto the appleTV is no more "entering into the home console market" than putting them on the iPod is trying to compete against the DS or PSP. It's just a couple of simple games to pass the time.

Thanks for attempting to keep everyone grounded. I didn't garner from the original statement that it was anything about Apple getting into the gaming market, either. It just sounded like PopCap games was looking into adapting their games for play on a wide variety of devices, the Apple TV just being one possibility.

Hattig
Feb 9, 2007, 06:47 AM
It just isn't going to happen.


AppleTV however is well specified for games:

- 1GHz Dothan CPU (~50% faster than the Wii and XBox)
- nVidia GeForce 7400M GPU (far faster than the Wii and XBox) with 64MB
- 256MB RAM (2x Wii, 4x XBox)
- 40GB hard drive
- Wireless
- 720p output

(albeit with a variant of Mac OS X running on it which will eat some memory and CPU cycles)

Compared to a PS3 or XBox360 it's a bit lame admittedly, but the device isn't aiming for that type of market. Games would be an additional feature, and they can certainly be made to run smoothly and look great with the above hardware.

However the controller aspect is an issue. One USB port at the back doesn't really meet gaming requirements. IR is fine for a remote control, but not so hot for games. Bluetooth would be good though - but the AppleTV doesn't include it - however a USB bluetooth dongle might suffice (but seems a bit hacky to me, and not Apple's style).

So games will be simple, one-player, controllable via the Apple Remote affairs. Solitaire. Breakout. Bejeweled. Poker (maybe online?). Lots of puzzles.

They should look good though - 720p or even 1080p (the AppleTV's HDMI chip supports 1080p, I just think the AppleTV lacks the processing power to decode 1080p content).

sunfast
Feb 9, 2007, 06:53 AM
... for casual gaming.

The hardcore games market is saturated folks. The people who regularly buy expensive consoles and games are not increasing in numbers. The cash they spend on indulging their habit is not increasing much either. So it would be dumb to get into the money-losing pissing-contest that is the games industry at the moment.

Nintendo are smart. They are moving out of the hardcore and into casual gaming with the Wii. The advantage of the Wii is that Grandma can play too. But Grandma is not about to walk into Electronics Boutique and pick up "Deal or No Deal Kung Fu"

The AppleTV as a gaming machine is somewhere around the Xbox PS2 Wii level. In other words perfectly capable of playing "simple games" as someone put it.

It also has an internet connection and a hard drive. Which means that small games can be bought and downloaded from the itunes store in three clicks or less. All for $8.99. And all that money goes to Apple.

C.

That is exactly what I would want from :apple:tv if it were to be a gaming platform

Claymore
Feb 9, 2007, 07:18 AM
Could the game not be run on your Mac, use its power and graphics card then operated and displayed remotely via AppleTV in the living room? Like VNC or something.

Avatar74
Feb 9, 2007, 07:32 AM
Could the game not be run on your Mac, use its power and graphics card then operated and displayed remotely via AppleTV in the living room? Like VNC or something.

In principle, yes.

Avatar74
Feb 9, 2007, 07:34 AM
They should look good though - 720p or even 1080p (the AppleTV's HDMI chip supports 1080p, I just think the AppleTV lacks the processing power to decode 1080p content).

Actually the bigger problem is the disparity between download time and added benefit of 1080p... as well as the upper limit of bandwidth for 802.11n streaming.

There's no driving reason to do 1080p content when the overwhelming majority of HDTV sets being distributed right now have a maximum progressive-scan output of 720p.

Maybe in two or three years time... but it's not sensible or necessary right now.

abrooks
Feb 9, 2007, 07:52 AM
Is it a coincidence that Apple wont show us the remote that is shipped with the :apple: TV?

I'm under the impression it ships with the standard Apple remote used with current Macs, iPod Hi-Fi and the iPod Universal Dock.

Edit: Confirmed. (http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html)

Digitalclips
Feb 9, 2007, 07:58 AM
If Apple was smart they would team up with Microsoft, there are a zillion games for the platform and just as many coming. Apple history with games .......well sucks turds and thats being nice. Who the heck is going to run out for Apple TV when it cant even play TV as far as I can tell? Then expect it to be a game platform? Please.

I'm sure Bill is feeling all fuzzy and warm about Apple about now, I'm sure he'd agree. ;)

gnasher729
Feb 9, 2007, 08:19 AM
Apple will be crushed like a bug in the video game market. Apple will need to partner up with Nintendo if they are going to make any sort of impact on the industry.

Edit: I will probably eat my words in a year or so.

Apple shouldn't go into the video game market. But they might go into the "wow my TV can play games!" market.

Last Christmas season, you could find a lot of DVD games in the shops (I haven't heard of any that didn't suck though), and people bought them. Not for "gaming", but for "playing games". There is definitely a market there.

gnasher729
Feb 9, 2007, 08:31 AM
Unless the :apple: TV has a graphics chip, a fair amount of RAM and a speedy processor this will never happen. The thing doesn't even have an optical drive FFS.

It has a graphics chip. It has a fair amount of RAM. It has a speedy processor (1 GHz). And it doesn't need an optical drive, it has a wireless connection with a powerful computer at the other end.

uNext
Feb 9, 2007, 08:56 AM
I dont care about gaming i already have a ps3 & wii
all iwant from this product is the ability to stream any video format to my tv.

Now that will rule and i will buy it in a heartbeat.

lukeisme09
Feb 9, 2007, 08:58 AM
too much too fast for apple i think....a mac now and then would be good as well

that is my thought exactly :D

gkarris
Feb 9, 2007, 09:31 AM
I just bought a PS3 primarily for the Bluray DVD playing capability. I am a HD nut. I bought the 20GB $499 version. This thing rocks. The quality is phenomenal.

For $499 it has the following

1) Cell processor running at > 3GHz. It has something like 8 cores. Simple ones though.
2) Slot loading Bluray drive. Plays DVD-Video, Audio-CD, SACD, BD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD+R, etc. No HD-DVD and I don't care.
3) Crazy fast graphics processor with at least 256 MB of RAM
4) Bluetooth
5) Four USB ports
6) Ethernet port
7) HDMI 1.3
8) Optical audio output
9) Bluetooth controller with rechargeable battery (recharge using USB).
10) 20GB user upgradeable 2.5" SATA HD.
11) I almost forgot - it plays games in upto 1080p resolution.
12) It plays MPEG2, MPEG4 including H.264, AAC audio, etc.

While the hardware is impressive for $499, the software does need work as far as a media console goes. The BD-ROM playback is awesome. DVD-Video, CD-Audio playback is also awesome.

It has rudimentary web browser. It does firmware upgrades through the network.

It does not however recognize any media stored in the local network. It is begging for Apple integration. What if we could merge the functionality of Apple TV into PS3. The hardware can easily handle it. What's even better is that the PS3 has bluetooth built-in and they sell a Bluetooth DVD remote. I bought this too and it is great.

Apple - Sony. You need each other in this. To battle microsoft.
In fact, if Apple sells a media server software for Windows and Mac that will integrate with the PS3 for even $50, it will be a hit. Think about it. The user can buy a PS3 (for which Sony loses money on) and then buy Apple's media server software ($50). If the user buys Apple TV, the media server is free.

Gamers can choose PS3. Non gamers can choose Apple TV. High end people can choose PS3, lower end people can choose Apple TV.

Knowing that Apple likes to develop their own hardware, I don't have any confidence this will ever happen, but I give kudos to Sony. The PS3 is a great machine.

Smells like astroturf....

I agree - everyone quit with the PS3, Wii, XB360 stuff. AppleTV has a different audience. So, you can play your iPod games on your AppleTV... more games to be available. The console companies are totally different, I don't expect to play Gears of War on my Mac Mini...

ijimk
Feb 9, 2007, 09:59 AM
will be interesting to see how this develops. :apple:

JGowan
Feb 9, 2007, 10:00 AM
The rumor didn't say EA Sports or Naughty Dog or SquareSoft is porting their games to the :apple: TV... it said POP-FREAKING-CAP! Who cares? So what if the :apple: TV could play solitare or ZUMA or Mahjong? That's the kind of games that PopCap makes... decent games IF it's something for a cell phone or an iPod or for wasting a little time on the computer, but it's not anything remotely like games that people think of today when they hear "videogames".

Do I think that the public should be able to play their downloaded games from iTunes on something other than their iPods? YES. By all means. I think it's a sort of rip-off that we can't do that now. I'd love to be able to play on a bigger screen and I'm certain iTunes could be modified to play them so one could play on his monitor. Getting them to play on the :apple: TV is just a way of getting people who've already bought games for their iPod to buy the new device.

The KARMA thing to have done would've been to make it available to play on the computer in the first place. While Apple has been opposed to having TV easily accessible on the computer screen, videogames on the computer is obvious. They should've come through on this without having to lay down more money for an :apple: TV.

Normally I'm a big PROponent for Apple but this one is lame.

MattrixMSP
Feb 9, 2007, 10:04 AM
I recently installed a new HD-DVR (HR20-700) for DirecTV service. One of the upcoming features is access to Gamelounge - which predominantly featured Popcap's Bejeweled.

Granted a remote is a very questionable interface and 5.95 per month for Gamelounge seems excessive, but if the DVR can handle these games why can't the AppleTV?


http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P4060018

Spades
Feb 9, 2007, 10:05 AM
Everybody that likes the games on the PSP and DS raise your hands.
Everybody that would not play them if they were not portable lower them.
Everybody that likes XBox Live Arcade raise your hands.

There's your market for :apple:TV games. I would be very surprised if that market isn't as big as the high-end gaming market.

mdntcallr
Feb 9, 2007, 10:25 AM
well, apple would have to start making machines and selling them initially at a loss, which i don't see happening.

that said, they could do a Wii type machine, with great graphics, but just not as good as PS3 or x360. i am sure alot of families would love this

Mr. Pippin
Feb 9, 2007, 10:45 AM
It just isn't going to happen.
However the controller aspect is an issue. One USB port at the back doesn't really meet gaming requirements. IR is fine for a remote control, but not so hot for games. Bluetooth would be good though - but the AppleTV doesn't include it - however a USB bluetooth dongle might suffice (but seems a bit hacky to me, and not Apple's style).


Agreed. I don't quite understand why they didn't put bluetooth in. Wireless headphones for listening to music should have been a big enough reason, alone.

gkarris
Feb 9, 2007, 10:50 AM
well, apple would have to start making machines and selling them initially at a loss, which i don't see happening.

that said, they could do a Wii type machine, with great graphics, but just not as good as PS3 or x360. i am sure alot of families would love this

Why buy a $299 AppleTV when they can just buy a $249 Wii?

Still talking about it....

So, I'll jump in....

I would like AppleTV to have a DVD drive and be compatible with all my XB360, XBox, Wii, Gamecube, PS2, Playstation, Dreamcast, Saturn, NeoGeoCD, TurboGrafx-CD, CD-i, and Sega CD games... and download games for all the other systems on the planet, including all handhelds - dating all the way back to Pong...

donlphi
Feb 9, 2007, 11:59 AM
I see the Apple Video Game console being something more basic than the Wii which would be terrible. "Bad graphics but fun" is not going to last very long. I'll still be going for my Playstation games while the Atari 2600, I mean Apple Genisis is under developement.

I know companies have these dreams of everything in a house is going to be branded by them, but I like a little variety.

TheBobcat
Feb 9, 2007, 12:39 PM
Stop wasting space.

:apple: TV WILL NOT SUPPORT ANY GAMES MORE COMPLEX THAN THOSE FOUND ON iTUNES.

ijimk
Feb 9, 2007, 01:16 PM
Apple Computer,Inc. is now Apple,Inc. so who knows.

Very true. Didn't even connect that with this thread. They will become a technology entertainment company... :D

dernhelm
Feb 9, 2007, 01:36 PM
"Bad graphics but fun" is not going to last very long.

You'd be surprised. Wii sports appeals to people that would never otherwise pick up a game controller. It is fun, and I've sold at least 5 Wii's for Nintendo just by having people over our house, letting them play, and 15 minutes later they're saying, how much is this again? Only $250? I gotta get me one of these...

Invariably, its the Wii sports that is selling them on it, and when they learn that one is free, they are simply amazed.

needthephone
Feb 9, 2007, 03:42 PM
Making it a games machine may make more sense than what it is at the moment. I can't see the point in the apple TV- I reallly did want one but It was much cheaper to buy a cable and plug it into my hifi. Now I can pipe itunes to my stereo. Sorry apple but the apple TV seems to be rather pointless-for me it needs a DVD player to make to make it justifiable otherwise its another box next to my foxtel, hard drive recorder and tuner.

Mac Fly (film)
Feb 9, 2007, 04:17 PM
Perhaps the new widescreen iPod will act as a game controller too ?

That's the obvious solution to this problem. Touchsereen could display any game controller interface on it, and bluetooth would make it wireless which is a must.

GregA
Feb 9, 2007, 06:09 PM
Could the game not be run on your Mac, use its power and graphics card then operated and displayed remotely via AppleTV in the living room? Like VNC or something.

It certainly wouldn't use the Mac's graphics card. But if apple ever gets Quartz2Dextreme working in a stable way, it could potentially stream an interface directly from the computer to the AppleTV (assuming the AppleTVs graphics card is able to handle Q2Dextreme).

However, highly complex graphics games use a fair bit of bandwidth, AND networking will have a delay to it. Perhaps if the graphics requirements are fully separated from the computing requirements (as Q2DExtreme attempts)... but I have my doubts.

I had a bit of an out there thought.... I was thinking that one of the secrets to Leopard could be a new gaming environment. This turns every mac (prob intel only) into a gaming station. This would instantly put a gaming pltform into the hands of millions of Apple users. The :apple: TV will provide the link to your Television and a Wireless Controllers will be used over your home network. This would be great added marketing for Leopard and also the :apple: TV
The 'top secret' features of Leopard will be interesting. I'm betting on the remote interface Claymore asked about - I'm not so sure about a gaming environment though.

*** Does Apple need games?
I'm in 2 minds about Apple focusing on games. My first thought is "too difficult - they need to stay clear". However, like it or not, people are looking at their living room and for their entertainment needs are (to some degree) comparing AppleTV/Xbox360/PS3/Wii/TiVo etc. Add games, and DVR, to AppleTV and what a machine!... oh, wait, it's missing BluRay/HD DVD... There are quite large differentiators at the moment as multiple environments converge. How does Apple want to play its game?

*** What about CoreAnimation and Interactivity?
Interactivity and virtual interfaces are going to be huge, and that might be the biggest reason for Apple to get involved with games (develop their background technology). Games machines are creating virtual worlds and have a head start in interactive environments.

Rather than imagine games - imagine TV game shows with full interactivity so you can play along. Apple will, of course, have CoreAnimation and this is much more important than most people realise. I wonder how they plan on letting us interact with computers and the AppleTV - is it the same as they've demonstrated?

*** How would Apple get into games?
It's all far too expensive I think, for Apple to compete with MS/Sony/Nintendo. They CAN do the basic stuff as many people have said and that'll be enough in some ways. Playing chess, or risk, with family remotely doesn't require much processing power. I'm sure they could include an emulator for old AppleII games & DOS games with little effort.

Getting big games takes far more. If they want that - perhaps they could become a huge supporter of an open API for gaming - so developers write games once for Mac/Windows/Linux? (does such an API already exist and need some big names supporting it?).

RMD68
Feb 10, 2007, 01:08 AM
Although it would be quite interesting to see what kind of Gaming system could offer (regardless off the Pippin which I mentioned in an earlier post) it would be nearly impossbile for them to get anyone to write software for the system. Unless Apple wrote all its own software which would be fairly difficult it would be hard to get reputable companies to write for the :apple:TV "Gaming Edition." The market is already saturated with video game systems and this would make it very hard for Apple to gain market share which inturn would lead to better software. In a bit of a Catch-22 just like it is for other systems that try and make it.

yamabushi
Feb 10, 2007, 09:18 PM
Apple already has a great gaming platform - the Mac. If would be really cool if they were to use :apple: TV as a means for getting games running on a Mac to play remotely on HD TVs.

However I think that :apple: TV is going to be hurt by consumers who are confused by the lack of video In to stream TV content to their computers. Even without controllers and fancy DVR features this may be something the consumer expects to have as a feature when they see the name of the product.

Just a simple stream of whatever is currently displayed on your TV into Quicktime Player or iTunes is all that is needed for now. Nothing needs to be stored in the :apple: TV itself.

Once the basic capability is there, DVR features could be added later within iTunes. No need to add DVR features though if you they want to avoid irritating content providers such as movie studios.

Add both remote gaming and video In features and Apple would have a much more appealing product.

scrambledwonder
Feb 10, 2007, 10:44 PM
What kind of processing power does the iTV pack? Apple says "Intel processor," but which one and at which speed? Would it use wifi controllers? This sounds like a lame-o rumor to me. Unless there's something I don't know, it seems unlikely that the iTV would be a serious gaming platform. A TV appliance with some gaming capabilities, sure. But a full-fledged system? Probably not. Not YET, anyway. I could see Apple releasing a gaming system that would put the Xbox 360 to shame. But they would need the backing of several game companies before they moved forward. I like the much-mentioned and rumored potential partnership with Nintendo. . . . Seems like a good idea.

We shall see. . .

scrambledwonder
Feb 10, 2007, 10:54 PM
Interesting. ..

tazznb
Feb 11, 2007, 10:54 AM
I think Apple would be spreading themselves too thin if they entered into this market. Computers, fine - MP3 players, fine - STBs, fine - phones, sure, give it a go - but gaming as well? On the one hand it would be in alignment with Apple's new corporate name and implied direction, however as a company Apple can only do so much - or more specifically, can only do so much and do it well. :cool:

People said the same of Apple when they only sold computers, and they wished to enter the MP3 player, and TV Content, and cell phone svcs LATE..... they seem to be holding up pretty well to me!

They'll just need to stick to their P's and Q's, and offer something different, or more functional than what's already offered.

Can I get paid for my ideas....?

~Shard~
Feb 11, 2007, 10:57 AM
People said the same of Apple when they only sold computers, and they wished to enter the MP3 player, and TV Content, and cell phone svcs LATE..... they seem to be holding up pretty well to me!

I'm all for Apple growing and expanding, but at some point a company reaches its limit. There's a tipping point when required effort and resources along with sheer quantity begins to impact quality. :cool:

Can I get paid for my ideas....?

Only if they're good ones. :p ;)

GregA
Feb 11, 2007, 03:43 PM
I'm all for Apple growing and expanding, but at some point a company reaches its limit. There's a tipping point when required effort and resources along with sheer quantity begins to impact quality.Configurations of companies have sweet spots in size for how well they operate. Same goes for number of products etc. As Apple grows, it will have to adjust how it does what it does, if it wants to continue to do it well.

An example is that Apple has done a great job of integrated development of iPod/iTunes/iTS etc, but at some point will have to be careful of advances in each product being dependent on other products, a small problem in one can delay another etc.

~Shard~
Feb 11, 2007, 03:57 PM
Configurations of companies have sweet spots in size for how well they operate. Same goes for number of products etc. As Apple grows, it will have to adjust how it does what it does, if it wants to continue to do it well.

An example is that Apple has done a great job of integrated development of iPod/iTunes/iTS etc, but at some point will have to be careful of advances in each product being dependent on other products, a small problem in one can delay another etc.

Completely agree, well said. And again, I'm not saying Apple can't succeed in this manner, but as you state they will definitely need to adapt and refine their processes if elements such as QC, product release timelines and the like are to be maintained in an acceptable manner. :cool:

sonnys
Feb 11, 2007, 07:03 PM
This is the most ridiculous rumor I've ever heard. Apple can't even get it's mainstream computers to be good at game play, and somehow the AppleTV is all of a sudden going to become a console gaming platform? NOT!

I don't know who makes this stuff up... and if an analyst said this, they should be fired. The AppleTV is a strreaming box, nothing more, with maybe some added functionality here and there and maybe a game of solitaire or Tetris. But a gaming console? Ha.a.a.a

Maccus Aurelius
Feb 13, 2007, 04:36 PM
This is the most ridiculous rumor I've ever heard. Apple can't even get it's mainstream computers to be good at game play, and somehow the AppleTV is all of a sudden going to become a console gaming platform? NOT!

I don't know who makes this stuff up... and if an analyst said this, they should be fired. The AppleTV is a strreaming box, nothing more, with maybe some added functionality here and there and maybe a game of solitaire or Tetris. But a gaming console? Ha.a.a.a

Apple's top end machines can handle desktop games just fine when dual booting Windows. The software just isn't developed for OS X because of its small market share. Otherwise Mac hardware is pretty competant at everything that doesn't require DirectX 10 GPU's, which currently are not supported by the Mac Pro.

You say this as though Apple was trying desperately to make their computers more gaming proficient. The only reason they created boot camp was so that their systems can expand their software support beyond OS X, and thus be more desireable to a wider range of users, not suddenly become everyone's shiny new extreme gaming device. It's for productivity and workhorse expansion. Since CAD programs are nearly non-existent on Macs, I can use a Mac Pro and handle any CAD program I want with Windows.

I don't believe that Apple will bother making a gaming machine. It's a market segment that just doesn't seem to be up Apple's alley, and this is the area where the hardware can suffer major losses if the content (games) aren't up to snuff. No way Jose.

robertico811
Feb 21, 2007, 09:06 AM
why is it best for apple and nintendo to team up for a game console, why not sony?