Wanted to switch but it wasn't meant to be, Ebay Fraud

[Yomama]

Little while ago I posted at Thinksecret.com forum about my switch to Apple and purchase of a G4 dual 1.25 GHZ on Ebay. I was really excited but I got dissapointed real soon. Here is what happend.

On April 25th 2003 I purchased an Apple G4 Personal Computer at EBay from seller "faded6662005".

The item was priced at US $1,699.00 and had no bids. I contacted Mr. Divin asking him if he would agree to sell the item for US $1550 including shipping. He agreed to the price and I sent him the money via Paypal.

After I paid he wouldn't reply to my emails and didn't close the auction. It took me several e-mail’s with the subject "Paypal Fraud Department" in order to get a response from him saying he couldn't figure out how to close an auction. He closed the auction 30 min later. Several hours later I searched for his username and found he was selling the same computer again on a different auction. I contacted him via e-mail and he told me it was a mix-up. I didn’t feel comfortable and asked him for his phone number, he told me he doesn't give out personal information over the internet.

I got suspicious and contacted Paypal fraud department informing them of my situation. The representative at Paypal told me to file a complaint and Mr. Divin would have 10 days to show them a tracking number or an shipping receipt. At the same time they also informed me it would take up to 30 days to get my money back. I asked if I should inform my credit card company and he told me to wait 30 days and see if Paypal could recover my funds. However, that same day I contacted Mastercard and told them my situation but I was told once again to wait 30 days before submitting this letter.

In the meantime I had several e-mail conversations with Mr.Divin and he came up with all kinds of excuses. - He had to wait until the money cleared his Paypal account. - He couldn’t remember what item I had purchased - He was working 12 hour days at Oregon Canadian lumber - He would send it out next week - Paypal closed his account and he wouldn’t ship the item and that I should leave him alone.

I contacted Paypal several times regarding my claim. I noticed I had a pending reverse transaction of US $1,489.25 from Mr. Divin’s account to my account. During the 5 or 6 times I contacted Paypal I was told my claim was under investigation and it would take 30 days.

On May 27th I received an email from Paypal stating the following:

“PayPal has concluded our investigation of your buyer complaint. Case ID: Transaction Date: Apr 24, 2003 Transaction Amount: -$1,550.00 Seller's Email: Seller's Name: Jesse Divin Our investigation has determined that the seller is at fault, and we have recovered your funds. $18.47 has been credited to your account. This is the maximum amount we were able to recover. Please allow up to 5 days for this adjustment to be reflected in your account. We appreciate your business, and regret this experience. “

I contacted Paypal and asked them what happened to my money. The representative told me that $18.47 US was all they could recover and that my claim was still under investigation. I was extremely shocked to hear that this was all they had accomplished in 30 days.

The End

Anyway this is my story. Sorry couldn't switch. I'm back with windows. I guess I have to save up for a while.

[smada]

19 DOLLARS? Is mastercard going to do anything about it?

[Sun Baked]

I hope you contacted the credit card company, always contact the credit card company "within" the fraud window, even if everyone tells you they are "working on it"

Paypal and the companies on the other end always want to burn through the chargeback period so the money isn't taken out of their pocket.

[Yomama]

I did contact Mastercard as well as

1) Mail Fraud w/ US Postal Service
2) National Fraud Information Center
3) FBI's Internet Fraud Complaint Center
4) Federal Trade Commission
5) Better Business Bureau

I haven't heard back from either one.
So will see what happens. I also have an auction at Ebay with the same letter and the subject "**FRAUD** - Be aware of Jesse Divin "

[evil]

man. im really sorry about what happened to you. i hope some more will come your way in regards to this whole mess.
i would try and complain to everyone imaginable in paypal. how the hell could they recover 18 dollars of it?
also, did you notify ebay as well?
is this guy still auctioning things off?

[Yomama]

I noticed later he was selling Imac's with parts Apple didn't manufacture. I don't know if he changed his username but I'm sure if he is a scammer he knows how to get around the system.

[MacAztec]

Get the guys IP address. Contact him and get it some how. I would track him down if I were you and get all his personal information. Find someone close to the guy and tell them to go down there. I would be pissed as hell.

But what are YOU thinking?
First- Does he have feedback

Second- What is up with his name (fraud name)

Third- You should have gotten his information before you sent the cash. I would never send cash to a guy when I only had his email.

The list can go on and on. When prices are really flexible like that its probly going to be a fraud. When someone says you can buy it for 1600, and then say "Need to sell it now, I will sell it for 1200 shipped!" Its a fraud!

[mathew]

I feel pretty badly for you - I would really hate for that to happen to me.

Here is what I was able to find out:

According to his auctions, his e-mail address is: faded6662003@yahoo.com

A lot of people don't put two and two together, but people can have a public profile on Yahoo!

You can find his at: http://profiles.yahoo.com/faded6662003

Based off this, I could assume the following:

a) He is really smart, uses the same code name everywhere, and put false info on his public yahoo profile.

OR

b) He is pretty dumb, and he doesn't think anyone will look up his Yahoo! profile.

I'm going to guess B, since he has some stupid stuff on his profile, and if he were smart, he would have serious stuff that wouldn't scare anyone away.

Based off that, I think it might be safe to think his name if Jesse Divin.

Also, notice his location is listed as Beaverton.

A quick search on Google reveals only one Beaverton - Beaverton, Oregon.

Another search ( Using USSearch.com ) for Divin living in Beaverton Oregon shows a Constance L. Divin - supposedly 47 years old....

A shot in the dark, but she would be old enough to be his Mom if he really is 21. It also shows that there are Divins in the area.

I'd suggest calling the Beaverton, OR police dept. and just check and see if they know of a Jesse Divin - Can't hurt if you've already contacted all the other listed agencies.

http://www.ci.beaverton.or.us/departments/police/

Hope some of this is of some help, and isn't too far fetched.

-Mathew

[arn]

Nice work mathew

I say call... tell his mom what he has done. Seriously.

Even if you don't get your money back, you can make his life difficult.

arn

[ibookin']

I tried to look up the last name "Divin" living in Beaverton on Superpages.com, but it didn't find anything, nor did it find any "Divin" in nearby areas. Either:

a) Unlisted number

b) Not real name

EDIT: Searching for "Divin" nationwide yielded 165 results. I can't investigate any of them further because I'm not over 18 and can't see his Yahoo! profile. Also, I don't see why he'd use his real name and not real location.

It's a real shot in the dark, but here's the link:

http://directory.superpages.com:80/wp/results.jsp?SRC=&PS=15&PI=1&STYPE=WS&WF=&WL=Divin&T=&S=&search=Find

[arn]

yeah.... actually, if you call Information for Beaverton, OR. There is no "Divin".

:)

arn

[pmac933]

There are other people on Ebay who have done business with him. Maybe you can try contacting them and see if they can give you a mailing address. Hopefully, it will not be a drop box. That being said, I wonder if the USPS would give you a name of a PO Box leasee in a case such as this.

[cb911]

dude, that's a bummer that you lost all that money. but i guess all you can do is like Arn said - keep tracking him down and "make his life difficult."

[AppleMatt]

You should post negative feedback and get his account suspended (he only has 8 positives), doing this obviously has advantages and disadvantages.

AppleMatt

edit: My mistake he's already gone

[AppleMatt]

Yeah do what pmac933 suggested, contact (all the) other eBayers (who have sold to him) and tell them what has happened, you might get a shipping address, which you can put together with matthew's stuff above, and really start to get somewhere.

AppleMatt

[Datazoid]

Well....here's what I've got so far. Assuming he isn't lying, there is a gym (straight blast gym http://www.thomasbrown.net/straightblastgym/page.asp?section=index) that teaches Jeet Kun Do (in his profile) in beaverton, OR. In addition, Pacific University www.pacificu.edu is very near Beaverton, and they have an online directory of students, but you must be a student to view it. In addition, his quote seems to be that of a "Samuel Johnson"...

[yzedf]

http://www.fraud.org/

http://paypalsuit.com/

http://www.paypalwarning.com/

http://www.paypalsucks.com/

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/ua-outside

http://news.com.com/2100-1017-842240.html

http://ecommerce.internet.com/news/news/article/0,,10375_2211651,00.html

http://www.internetnews.com/ec-news/article.php/1470291

http://www.techtv.com/cybercrime/internetfraud/story/0,23008,3370214,00.html

In short, if you use eBay to buy something, use a legitimate escrow, NOT PAYPAL. Paypal is owned by ebay, and is not regulated like a bank. They can do, more or less, whatever they want, to whomever, at any time.

Before you get to serious about this, remove all funds from your paypal account, because it can be frozen for no reason! :mad:

Good luck :)

[phrancpharmD]

Man that sucks; I hate it for you. I was really paranoid when I bought my Airport Base Station a few weeks ago, but everything turned out OK. Threads like this make me think twice about buying anything from eBay especially anything over $200. I recently read about a website run by a cop called ebayerswhosuck.com or something like that - kind of like an "e-vigilante" group; they might be able to help you track him down. . .

[Moopy Sac]

I hate to see someone soil such a cool website such as ebay. I can't imagine this joker is using his real name, but if he is, I found some more info for you. Hope it helps a little.

Jesse B Divin
DOB: 6/3/81
2385 195th Ave SW
Beaverton, OR 97006

Additional household member: Connie, born 1956

This address was last updated 2/12/03

[djtet]

hey there...i really feel sorry for you and your situation. it's hard for me to believe that people get away with this kind of fraud. you would think that someone would be able to do something, especially the credit card company or paypal. i've been recently surfing the ebay pages for a used emac or imac, but not having much money, i really don't want to bid on such a high priced auction. mainly because i am nervous about getting screwed! i really hope you get you $ back...

[Yomama]

Thank you guys for your help.
I'm wondering if I could find out where he is working.

I contacted the Police department in Beaverton.
They took my information and gave me a case number.

Anway. I found the wbsite http://www.ebayersthatsuck.com

[rt_brained]

Just out of curiosity...anyone out there have significant enough experience to know the absolute do's and dont's one should follow on eBay from both a seller and buyer standpoint?

I've taken the eBay plunge a couple times and thank god, not been screwed. My girlfriend and I have a couple iBooks (1 ea.) that we were considering putting up, but we don't want to get taken for a ride. I assumed Paypal was the best route as a seller.

Does anyone have a list they could post for us to reference in the future?

Best of luck to you, Yomama. I hope you nail the guy.

Literally.

To a 4x8 sheet of plywood.

[AppleMatt]

I have accounts on eBay, QXL and eBid. I used to have an account on Yahoo! Auctions before it ended. I buy and sell frequently.

Things to look out for are:

- Recent name changes/recently registered users.
- A feedback profile that has only buy transactions in it, all from a long time ago.
- A feedback profile with entries filled on the day of auction close.
- If they are a seller, have they been selling, eg, macs before? It is iffy when someone who sells only books suddenly lands a 17" PowerBook on eBay (hijacked account).
- No picture (no photo, not a website image)
- Dodgey description, eg, "Brand new 12
" PowerBook, I really love the light up keyboard on this."
- A listing that contains an email address at the top or bottom.
- Sellers that no nothing about the product when asked, I had one guy give me PC specs for a Mac I asked about.
- Sellers that refuse to give you their details, eg, address and number.
- SELLERS WHO REFUSE COLLECTION (big one, unless they have a good reason)
- Also something I've noticed is sellers listing refurbs as new, this is fraud, don't accept it.
- Finally use your gut, if you have any doubts, don't bid, there will be plenty more to bid on in a couple of days!

If I think of any more I'll post them.

AppleMatt

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
Yeah do what pmac933 suggested, contact (all the) other eBayers (who have sold to him) and tell them what has happened, you might get a shipping address, which you can put together with matthew's stuff above, and really start to get somewhere.

AppleMatt I recently read an article about how eBay Fraud is rampant. That users sign up multiple accounts and give themselves stellar feedback. So contacting other buyers isn't necessarily a fool proof method. I can't believe Paypal couldn't return your money. What good is the service if those are the results.

You may want to chat with a lawyer. You may be able to take PayPal to small claims. Not that I agree with suing anyone, but it seems clear that they screwed up and the service is flawed.

[elpinchegringo]

Originally posted by pgwalsh
I recently read an article about how eBay Fraud is rampant. That users sign up multiple accounts and give themselves stellar feedback. So contacting other buyers isn't necessarily a fool proof method. I can't believe Paypal couldn't return your money. What good is the service if those are the results.

You may want to chat with a lawyer. You may be able to take PayPal to small claims. Not that I agree with suing anyone, but it seems clear that they screwed up and the service is flawed.

go to your credit card company. They should refund 100% of the difference between what you lost and what PayPal refunded. Then their lawyers will go after PayPal and young Mr. Divin.

Or you could show up on his doorstep with baseball bat in hand.

[evil]

for once id like to agree with tazo. pay pal is supposed to secure your rights in case of fraud, right?
bomb those ***** and that kid

[iJon]

your in a much better situation than most. 1 is that you didnt ship anything toh im, so you really didnt lose anything. you payed with credit card. if both paypal and mastercard are giving you the runaround contact a lawyer. just having a lawyer email them saying answer us now or we will pursue legal action will more than likey have them take a 2nd look at your case.

iJon

[geewiz]

Guys,

Imagine you need a car, and your friend says he saw an ad you might like and gives you the phone number. The car turns out to be a lemon -- the seller lies about the condition of the car and hides it's ugly past. Do you blame your friend? No, you blame the guy who lied about the condition! What's the parallel? Blame the seller, not eBay or PayPal.

Yes, this guy seems like a snake, and I wish you all the luck recovering your money. There are lots of great tips on this thread about how to track the guy down; hopefully they pan out.

BUT, please don't assume that companies will give you stuff for free, or almost-free, expecially if they have never claimed they would give you that stuff! Specifically, neither eBay nor PayPal ever claim that they guarantee that sellers will follow through. READ YOUR USER AGREEMENTS! PayPal will guarantee that payments will get through to their recipients -- because that is what their business is, and they can see that it gets done. They can't, for pennies on the dollar, ensure that people they have never met and who don't work for them will always be good people and send merchandise that is as-promised. PayPal and eBay both have fraud detection programs and they work hard to reduce fraud, but they *don't* guarantee you won't be a fraud victim. And they can't -- at least not for the level of fees they collect. eBay and PayPal will kick out the bad apples as best they can, but the ball is still in your court to protect yourself. I have bought and sold through eBay and Paypal for years, including buying and selling macs occasionally. I have never had a problem. As another poster said, DO NOT BID if you have any doubts. And DO NOT SEND MONEY if you don't have a physical address and a phone number. Call the number and verify it. Or use escrow services (which cost a lot more than PayPal, because they *do* guarantee the safety of your money pending the delivery of the iems). Checking feedback is a good place to start, and that is probably all I will check when I am buying an $8 magic card. But for a computer, I do my homework! I will know exactly where my $$$ is going!

-- Glenn

[iPat]

"I can't believe Paypal couldn't return your money. What good is the service if those are the results."

I've sold two computers on ebay and I useed escrow.com. I think ebay suggests using an escrow service for anything over $200.00. Paypal was not ever supposed to be for expensive items.

Hint - for those looking for an escow service...there are a lot of scams. Escrow.com is a wonderful service that is simple and and easy to deal with.

[maraczc]

I personally would opt to do this with the police or your credit card company instead of eBay. At best eBay would refund your money to your account. But what would you do with $1500 worth of pre-paid sellers fees?

I am pretty sure that eBay legally owes you nothing, since the transaction was done outside of eBay. Their policy does not cover such transactions. If you won the auction eBay would refund your money (yet still in eBay pre-paid fees).

I would first make copies of the paypal invoice. Secondly speak with people who have done bussiness with him, and get their statements to link that name to that account, and take their reference number. Now, you have an address that someone provided you here, you can call up the local sheriff and tell them about the situation. But I'd first suggest getting pushy with your credit card company. Most likely they will fold in. Contact a lawyer if you must.

If ALL else fails, and neither the ideas people on this board, other boards, or your legal advice have suggested fail....call his house...over and over.....and over and over.....and sent him mail...again and again.

[iJon]

Originally posted by maraczc
I personally would opt to do this with the police or your credit card company instead of eBay. At best eBay would refund your money to your account. But what would you do with $1500 worth of pre-paid sellers fees?

I am pretty sure that eBay legally owes you nothing, since the transaction was done outside of eBay. Their policy does not cover such transactions. If you won the auction eBay would refund your money (yet still in eBay pre-paid fees).

I would first make copies of the paypal invoice. Secondly speak with people who have done bussiness with him, and get their statements to link that name to that account, and take their reference number. Now, you have an address that someone provided you here, you can call up the local sheriff and tell them about the situation. But I'd first suggest getting pushy with your credit card company. Most likely they will fold in. Contact a lawyer if you must.

If ALL else fails, and neither the ideas people on this board, other boards, or your legal advice have suggested fail....call his house...over and over.....and over and over.....and sent him mail...again and again.
you dont really do the transaction through ebay. they help you sell it, you pay for it how ever you want, you just use them to get your product out there. ebay tries to prevent fraud, but the do jack s*** if you get screwed over. he just needs to consult his credit card company and tell them he sent money and didnt recieve anything. the credit you back and that guy gets nothing. this happened to my mom, she payed for something with her credit card and never recieved. item never shipped so she didnt lose any money. using a credit card through paypal may work differently, i doubt very much though, he should get his money back easily and nicely.

iJon

[maraczc]

Originally posted by iJon
you dont really do the transaction through ebay. they help you sell it, you pay for it how ever you want, you just use them to get your product out there. ebay tries to prevent fraud, but the do jack s*** if you get screwed over. he just needs to consult his credit card company and tell them he sent money and didnt recieve anything. the credit you back and that guy gets nothing. this happened to my mom, she payed for something with her credit card and never recieved. item never shipped so she didnt lose any money. using a credit card through paypal may work differently, i doubt very much though, he should get his money back easily and nicely.

iJon

That's not what I meant. If you win an auction and get scammed, eBay will return you the money. But if you call the seller and do a transaction without winning an auction from eBay, eBay has no liability to refund you any money at all.

[Grimace]

Never buy an Apple product on Ebay from anyone with less than a 50 rating. Powerbooks especially are being scammed all the time - Ebay shuts them down as quickly as possible. I feel for you man, but you have to do your homework with Ebay.

[coolbreeze]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
Never buy an Apple product on Ebay from anyone with less than a 50 rating. Powerbooks especially are being scammed all the time - Ebay shuts them down as quickly as possible. I feel for you man, but you have to do your homework with Ebay. Hey, easy now. I have my iMac listed on eBay (see sig) and I certainly must be one of the best sellers on eBay. I answer emails within the hour, and offer any contact info the buyer wants.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, and I'm one of them (my feedback rating is 100% positive and a "37"). Also, just because you talk to the person on the telephone doesn't mean the deal is legit. I almost got taken for a $1670 ride months ago over a powerbook flim-flam:



When I bought my first mac...let the scam begin (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18004)

I realize I'd been taken (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18366)

Be careful out there. eBay is a minefield of scams...

[Yomama]

Thank you guys for the tips. Really aprociate it.

Our company laywer wrote a letter wich I send with certified mail as well as email.

3 hours later Mr. Divin send 2 emails and left 3 message on my phone explaining the situation. He told me Paypal took the money out of his account to pay for another fraud for $1550. He also was concernd about the law sued as well as his job and house. blablabla

It didn't make any sense,

Of course I called Paypal right away to confirm his story and they told me he took out the money.

My credit card company is informed as well. So lets hope for the best.

Thanks again.

[iJon]

Originally posted by maraczc
That's not what I meant. If you win an auction and get scammed, eBay will return you the money. But if you call the seller and do a transaction without winning an auction from eBay, eBay has no liability to refund you any money at all.
ebay will refund your money, thats a good one. ebay will help you out up to 200 dollars, so he just basically lost 1300. ebay fraud happens all the time and ebay will do nothign about it. i feel sorry for these people but it just happens so often, just go buy if locally or a trusted online store, but he bought it with a credit card so mastercard will refund him 100%.

iJon

[pmac933]

Here is an interesting (and recent) article about eBay from Fortune magazine: eBay's Worst Nightmare (http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,450899,00.html).

[AppleMatt]

DID YOU GET HIS NUMBER?

Was it on caller ID or recently calls lists? Wrtie it down!

AppleMatt

[Wardofsky]

Fraud is horrible and I do hope that you do not get shot down by this experience, I don't like being paranoid but I s'pose you have to be alert...