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MacRumors
Feb 26, 2007, 03:26 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple confirmed today (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2007-02-26T210841Z_01_N26235636_RTRIDST_0_APPLE-TV-URGENT.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna) that the Apple TV will be delayed until mid-March.

"Wrapping up Apple TV is taking a few weeks longer than we projected, and we now expect to begin shipments mid-March," spokeswoman Lynn Fox said by email.

This is despite claims (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/12/apple-tv-shipping-in-february-as-promised/) that they would be reaching their February launch. Apple officially announced the Apple TV at Macworld San Francisco for a February ship date.

Meanwhile Apple Stores are still expecting in-store displays on March 5th (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/23/apple-tv-in-store-displays-on-march-5th/) for the Apple TV. Customers also report that early web orders have not yet changed and still reflect a Feb 28th ship date.



slu
Feb 26, 2007, 03:28 PM
Bummer, but releasing a product that is buggy and not ready for prime time is always a bad idea.

BoyBach
Feb 26, 2007, 03:28 PM
Why am I not surprised at this news?

iGav
Feb 26, 2007, 03:29 PM
"Wrapping up Apple TV is taking a few weeks longer than we projected, and we now expect to begin shipments mid-March,"

Hear that? that's the sound of another Rev A disaster unfolding. :p

zelmo
Feb 26, 2007, 03:30 PM
Bummer, but releasing a product that is buggy and not ready for prime time is always a bad idea.

And yet, we have Vista.

I hope Apple is taking the extra time to cram a 500GB drive in that sucker.:p

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 03:31 PM
A two week delay for :apple:TV vs A seven year delay for Vista..... which is STILL not ready for Prime Time.

Perhaps this mid-March release will coincide with
another major release....:rolleyes:

sanooj
Feb 26, 2007, 03:32 PM
I don't think this bodes well for other products (Leopard, updates to the mac line, etc). It's taking resources away from other stuff that they should focus on. I could not care less about :apple: tv until I get a new Mac Pro.

mrthieme
Feb 26, 2007, 03:32 PM
Obviously Steve has read my complaining posts all over the web concerning some options I wanted to have included and is retooling to meet my demands.

OwlsAndApples
Feb 26, 2007, 03:33 PM
Groan...Oh well, I wasn't going to be queueing up for one overnight anyway :o

bigandy
Feb 26, 2007, 03:34 PM
they should have waited until wednesday to announce this... :rolleyes:

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 03:35 PM
And yet, we have Vista.

I hope Apple is taking the extra time to cram a 500GB drive in that sucker.:p

Now we're talkin'........ Add a slim Blu-Ray drive and we're
good to go....

twoodcc
Feb 26, 2007, 03:36 PM
Bummer, but releasing a product that is buggy and not ready for prime time is always a bad idea.

i agree. as long as they get it right....and mid march isn't too far away.....so this isn't that bad i guess

Stridder44
Feb 26, 2007, 03:39 PM
Obviously Steve has read my complaining posts all over the web concerning some options I wanted to have included and is retooling to meet my demands.


lol naturally. THis must have something to do with another product release....

siurpeeman
Feb 26, 2007, 03:40 PM
i hope this two week delay doesn't foreshadow a delay in leopard's launch. apple promised a spring launch, but i'm hoping that'll be in the march/april time frame and not may/june. <fingers crossed>

nazmac21
Feb 26, 2007, 03:41 PM
So this means Mac OS 10.4.9 and iTunes 7.1.0 will be delayed even further.

Rot'nApple
Feb 26, 2007, 03:41 PM
A two week delay for :apple:TV vs A seven year delay for Vista.....

Perhaps this mid-March release will coincide with
another major release....:rolleyes:

But what might Apple's excuse be come mid-march! - considering the denial of the rumored delay of the product in the first place!!:D

NightStorm
Feb 26, 2007, 03:44 PM
Can't say that I'm not a little disappointed, but if it leads to a more polished product, and perhaps some new iTunes Store content options, I'll be a happy camper.

I do wish they would go ahead and post the AppleTV manual for everyone to look at.

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 03:45 PM
I don't think this bodes well for other products (Leopard, updates to the mac line, etc). It's taking resources away from other stuff that they should focus on. I could not care less about :apple: tv until I get a new Mac Pro.

Since :apple:TV has it's own separate department, this delay will
not draw from resources dedicated to Leopard, iPhone, iPod depts.
Only within Mom&Pop shops does everyone in house drop what they're
doing to pitch in to meet a deadline.........

Zillatron
Feb 26, 2007, 03:45 PM
they should have waited until wednesday to announce this... :rolleyes:

Great observation.
Stay tuned folks...

Z

izzle22
Feb 26, 2007, 03:48 PM
Great observation.
Stay tuned folks...

Z

?????? WHY?

JackSYi
Feb 26, 2007, 03:49 PM
lol naturally. THis must have something to do with another product release....

Although this is pure speculation, Looprumors.com did report earlier (http://www.looprumors.com/article.php?leopards-top-secret-features-to-wow-audiences,667985494) that Apple TV would have features tied in with 10.4 Leopard, which could possibly mean that Apple is delaying the shipments (of Apple TV) to coincide with some Leopard announcement.

paulyras
Feb 26, 2007, 03:53 PM
Awww.... You've got to be kidding me. I had read about the March 5th retail date page 2 rumor and literally just ordered one online in order to get it sooner, seeing the February date on the apple store still. This was 10 minutes ago. Then I clicked over here. Darn Darn Darn....

I had it all figured out... Ships on Wednesday, 2 day mail, watching it on Friday...

Oh well... I'd rather it work correctly out of the box.

Any chance the delay is working out PVR capabilities with an EyeTV plugged in to the otherwise unused USB port? I wish...

TheAnswer
Feb 26, 2007, 03:54 PM
I'd think this is something they should have known sooner...you'd think with product cycles, you would want to give people notice of a delay sooner than later and then beat the revised expectations, rather than wait until just before the witching hour and dampen people's moods.

Telp
Feb 26, 2007, 03:54 PM
Seriously, im sure the wait is worth it. I bet if they said hey you know what were gunna have it shipping on time but theres gunna be a lot of kinks in it, im sure you wont mind, i think youd tell them to have the release date further back. Atleast your not waiting 5 years for it, and still getting a crap product. :rolleyes:

bdkennedy1
Feb 26, 2007, 03:55 PM
That's EXACTLY what I did. I'll have it before the weekend and then this. Eh, well there's nothing I can do about it so why stress.

Awww.... You've got to be kidding me. I had read about the March 5th retail date page 2 rumor and literally just ordered one online in order to get it sooner, seeing the February date on the apple store still. This was 10 minutes ago. Then I clicked over here. Darn Darn Darn....

I had it all figured out... Ships on Wednesday, 2 day mail, watching it on Friday...

Oh well... I'd rather it work correctly out of the box.

Any chance the delay is working out PVR capabilities with an EyeTV plugged in to the otherwise unused USB port? I wish...

zblaxberg
Feb 26, 2007, 04:01 PM
Why am I not surprised at this news?

I'm not very surprised either but then again I didn't even see anything special about the :apple: tv ... it's not worth the $299

edit: i bet i'm gonna get a lotta crap for this...

Nuc
Feb 26, 2007, 04:10 PM
edit: i bet i'm gonna get a lotta crap for this...
You troll!! :D ;)

Nuc

ibelyias
Feb 26, 2007, 04:11 PM
I just called Apple's customer service. They are still saying that my appleTV is scheduled to ship on Wednesday. Guess we'll see...

pdpfilms
Feb 26, 2007, 04:18 PM
I just called Apple's customer service. They are still saying that my appleTV is scheduled to ship on Wednesday. Guess we'll see...

Yeah, me too.

If they're still shipping online orders this week and expecting stores to have them by the 5th (as previously stated), where's the mid-march delay?

powermac_daddy
Feb 26, 2007, 04:21 PM
what's next?

mangis
Feb 26, 2007, 04:30 PM
See, this exactly why Steve J doesn't announce products in advance.

I was LMAO at MS when they kept postponing the Longhorn release, and still am since Vista looks so buggy and confusing, but no Apple runs the risk of looking like they can't finish on time. And a 6 month wait for the phone. Come on? This makes you wonder if that will be on time too.

Oh, and while I'm at it, how long did we have to wait after Steve promised a 3GB desktop? It was like 3 years, but he promised a 1 year wait. Hell, he had to change to Intel for that.

Not preannouncing solves the problem. The things get done when they are done.

Avatar74
Feb 26, 2007, 04:31 PM
FYI... the article states that the quote concerning mid-March shipments came from Lynn Fox. Fox is Apple's Mac PR Director.

Since Apple Store Online's shipments to customers are synchronized to arrive no earlier than the street date for shipments to Apple Store retail centers, I suspect she means all shipments.

Either way, if the notice did come from Fox, it's the official word.

whatever
Feb 26, 2007, 04:31 PM
Now we're talkin'........ Add a slim Blu-Ray drive and we're good to go....
Why are people so stuck in the hard media paradigm? Instead of asking Apple to decide between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD I would rather see people asking them to make HD content available from iTunes. Making  TV completely media dependent. In five years when the next leap is made in HD technology, the enduser will not have to add yet another player to their system, but instead just upload (if necessary) the proper patch to TV and then purchase the content from iTunes.

As I have said in the past, their is no reason why Apple cannot provide 1080P content (besides the fact there isn't much 1080P content available) from the iTunes store.

Yeah, I hear the rumbling now about the long download times, but seriously couldn't Apple just break the Chapters into individual downloads (like an album or like the VIDEO_TS folder on a DVD) and then write some simple code to always play the files in order.

Also remember that Apple claims that movies from iTunes will be 720P (which is better than 1080i).

Sounds like a no brainer to me!

mrthieme
Feb 26, 2007, 04:34 PM
See, this exactly why Steve J doesn't announce products in advance.

I was LMAO at MS when they kept postponing the Longhorn release, and still am since Vista looks so buggy and confusing, but no Apple runs the risk of looking like they can't finish on time. And a 6 month wait for the phone. Come on? This makes you wonder if that will be on time too.

Oh, and while I'm at it, how long did we have to wait after Steve promised a 3GB desktop? It was like 3 years, but he promised a 1 year wait. Hell, he had to change to Intel for that.

Not preannouncing solves the problem. The things get done when they are done.
I'm sure they had their reasons for prerelease announcement, but I agree it's great to hear Steve say " and it will start shipping.......today!"

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 04:38 PM
I doubt the delay is due to some hardware related issue or even with Leopard/Vista tie-ups software wise. The delay is probably due to some unfinished content distribution contracts with the various entertainment companies.

Apple is probably trying to hammer out a better pricing system for movie/tv rentals.

Still, I think a 20GB PS3 at $499 is a better deal than this since the AppleTV foolishly does not work as a DVR. At the very least, the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player (and the best one on the market too, not counting Sony's stand-alone unit), and you can rent movies in 1080p goodness in Blu-Ray straight from NetFlix without any price increase over regular DVDs. And 1080p is better than the basement- level HD that is 720p. Save the inferior 720p HD for Microsoft's Xbox360 and let the big-boys pursue 1080p. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to want to be better than Sony in this regard, or TiVo in the other. Shame.


ps. HD DVD is dead. Thanks for playing, Toshiba and Microsoft. Now please join JVC backstage in sulking over the failure of the SuperVHS and D-VHS formats...

reno
Feb 26, 2007, 04:39 PM
oh man! i was looking forward to hooking it up this weekend !!

as someone who preordered this back in september, i am disappointed. didn't they originally say it would ship in january, then february, and now another delay? what would make me feel better is if they just offered an extra goodie to make up for the delay, like a free TV show download (a movie download would be even better though).

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 04:45 PM
I don't think this bodes well for other products (Leopard, updates to the mac line, etc). It's taking resources away from other stuff that they should focus on. I could not care less about :apple: tv until I get a new Mac Pro.

See, this exactly why Steve J doesn't announce products in advance.

I was LMAO at MS when they kept postponing the Longhorn release, and still am since Vista looks so buggy and confusing, but no Apple runs the risk of looking like they can't finish on time. And a 6 month wait for the phone. Come on? This makes you wonder if that will be on time too.

Oh, and while I'm at it, how long did we have to wait after Steve promised a 3GB desktop? It was like 3 years, but he promised a 1 year wait. Hell, he had to change to Intel for that.

Not preannouncing solves the problem. The things get done when they are done.

Pre-announcing a product is risky business indeed. However, product
awareness does justify cause for consumers to hold out for the
next bit thing on the horizon, which Apple has attempted to do
with the iPhone.

bommai
Feb 26, 2007, 04:45 PM
I doubt the delay is due to some hardware related issue or even with Leopard/Vista tie-ups software wise. The delay is probably due to some unfinished content distribution contracts with the various entertainment companies.

Apple is probably trying to hammer out a better pricing system for movie/tv rentals.

Still, I think a 20GB PS3 at $499 is a better deal than this since the AppleTV foolishly does not work as a DVR. At the very least, the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player (and the best one on the market too, not counting Sony's stand-alone unit), and you can rent movies in 1080p goodness in Blu-Ray straight from NetFlix without any price increase over regular DVDs. And 1080p is better than the basement- level HD that is 720p. Save the inferior 720p HD for Microsoft's Xbox360 and let the big-boys pursue 1080p. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to want to be better than Sony in this regard, or TiVo in the other. Shame.


ps. HD DVD is dead. Thanks for playing, Toshiba and Microsoft. Now please join JVC backstage in sulking over the failure of the SuperVHS and D-VHS formats...

I totally agree. I got the 20GB PS3 and love it. One thing Apple has is software integration. PS3 lacks the network sharing that AppleTV promises. iPhoto, iTunes integration. I wish PS3 would support that.

easy4lif
Feb 26, 2007, 04:54 PM
I'm kinda surprised. I was hoping to get it soon, guess I'm gonna either cancel my order or wait like everyone else.

smartin684
Feb 26, 2007, 04:55 PM
A two week delay is NOTHING. Im sure it just a logistical mishap somewhere in the supply chain. Happens all the time. These things are already on a palet on a loading dock somewhere waiting for distribution, or more like the Freighter from Taiwan got stuck in some bad weather. And I seriously doubt that they are waiting for an iTunes agreement to ship iTV. iTV has already been announced, so what would be the point of stalling for an iTunes agreement or a software announcement. "Finally, Leopard is here, and by the way, our new iTV is shipping today as well!!" ? Nope, cant say I see a correlation.

Peace
Feb 26, 2007, 04:56 PM
The Apple online store changed the date to Mid-March so it's really official now.

Cancelled!! :mad:

peterjames
Feb 26, 2007, 04:57 PM
maybe they will add 1080p support and beef up that hard drive...

zap2
Feb 26, 2007, 04:59 PM
ARG ZAP SMASH!!



O well....I'll still be here

I doubt the delay is due to some hardware related issue or even with Leopard/Vista tie-ups software wise. The delay is probably due to some unfinished content distribution contracts with the various entertainment companies.

Apple is probably trying to hammer out a better pricing system for movie/tv rentals.

Still, I think a 20GB PS3 at $499 is a better deal than this since the AppleTV foolishly does not work as a DVR. At the very least, the PS3 is a Blu-Ray player (and the best one on the market too, not counting Sony's stand-alone unit), and you can rent movies in 1080p goodness in Blu-Ray straight from NetFlix without any price increase over regular DVDs. And 1080p is better than the basement- level HD that is 720p. Save the inferior 720p HD for Microsoft's Xbox360 and let the big-boys pursue 1080p. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't seem to want to be better than Sony in this regard, or TiVo in the other. Shame.


ps. HD DVD is dead. Thanks for playing, Toshiba and Microsoft. Now please join JVC backstage in sulking over the failure of the SuperVHS and D-VHS formats...


Ya because I can stream all my iTunes bought stuff w/ the PS3:rolleyes:

patrick0brien
Feb 26, 2007, 05:03 PM
The Apple online store changed the date to Mid-March so it's really official now.

Cancelled!! :mad:

-Peace

Why cancel? I don't understand.

bdkennedy1
Feb 26, 2007, 05:05 PM
Dammit! Well I guess that gives me time to start ripping my DVD collection.

The Apple online store changed the date to Mid-March so it's really official now.

Cancelled!! :mad:

bcharna
Feb 26, 2007, 05:07 PM
_

OllyW
Feb 26, 2007, 05:08 PM
oh man! i was looking forward to hooking it up this weekend !!

as someone who preordered this back in september, i am disappointed. didn't they originally say it would ship in january, then february, and now another delay? what would make me feel better is if they just offered an extra goodie to make up for the delay, like a free TV show download (a movie download would be even better though).

How did you manage to order it in September?

The full details (and final name) were only announced at MWSF in January with a shipping date of the end of February. They only started taking pre-orders after the Keynote had finished and todays announcement is the first and only delay so far.

AliensAreFuzzy
Feb 26, 2007, 05:08 PM
It's obvious they just need time to finish the new Bittorrent back-ended version of iTunes.:p

Peace
Feb 26, 2007, 05:09 PM
-Peace

Why cancel? I don't understand.

Because I'm ticked off at Apple and it's my way of showing my dissatisfaction.

I'll order it again when they have it in stock.

Maybe one little voice but 5,000 little voices make one loud voice.

Apple should have never promised to ship this unless they were sure it would ship on time.

whatever
Feb 26, 2007, 05:13 PM
oh man! i was looking forward to hooking it up this weekend !!

as someone who preordered this back in september, i am disappointed. didn't they originally say it would ship in january, then february, and now another delay? what would make me feel better is if they just offered an extra goodie to make up for the delay, like a free TV show download (a movie download would be even better though).

If you pre-ordered back in September then you're really getting ripped off, since you couldn't order it until after the Keynote in January!

macenforcer
Feb 26, 2007, 05:13 PM
Sorry but the reality is that iTV sucks. Lame remote, can't view anything unless its in your itunes library. Must sync it like an ipod, only 40gb hd. Stupid front row interface.

How am i going to watch my eyeTV recorded tv shows? Why can't I stream the massive amounts of video I have on my hard drive? Why can't I have a remote that I won't lose and with more functionality. Why is it freakin $300?

I must say this is the first apple product I will not buy. Its too lame. I can just plug my ipod into my tv if I want these features.

Sticking with my xbox 360 and media center. This setup way rocks.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 05:14 PM
Can somebody tell my why I need Apple TV? A quick overview of the Apple site and itunes doesnt make me want this. At all. Why do I need to pay 15 bucks for a movie that I'm not going to have a hard copy of? For 20 bucks I can buy the DVD. If I grow tired of the dvd I can trade it for something else. It's not a tivo, not that I have one or would want one. I'm not a big tv show person anyway. Seems like an ok toy but not something I really need or want for 300 bucks. I rarely if ever watch a movie on my mac now so what does this do for me? I trying to understand Apples reasoning behind this. This is just basically a bridge between my mac and my tv.
Now if your going to tell me that in the future you'll be able to rent movies and tv shows thru itunes for a small fee (and I mean very small) and it will compete with netflix and the like I could find some interest in the idea, maybe a lot of interest. Until then I dont understand why anybody would buy this. Of course if your an Apple head and need to have everything that Apple puts out I would understand but for the rest of us. WHY? Am I missing somthing here. If they really want to make me happy. Find a way to make itunes music cd quality.

pale9
Feb 26, 2007, 05:15 PM
the apple tv probably does you no good without an updated itunes. so my guess is: apple tv-itunes-leopard middle of march????

leopard might be wishful thinking, but its strange that there have not been any new beta releases in a while....

whatever
Feb 26, 2007, 05:15 PM
Because I'm ticked off at Apple and it's my way of showing my dissatisfaction.

I'll order it again when they have it in stock.

Maybe one little voice but 5,000 little voices make one loud voice.

Apple should have never promised to ship this unless they were sure it would ship on time.

Wouldn't it be funny if the price goes up and you have to pay more!

elppa
Feb 26, 2007, 05:17 PM
To some of you expecting new features — I can't see apple adding any features if they are behind schedule, as that will delay it further.

OllyW
Feb 26, 2007, 05:21 PM
Wouldn't it be funny if the price goes up and you have to pay more!

I think it's already overpriced as it is :p

reno
Feb 26, 2007, 05:24 PM
OK, OK ... right, I pre-ordered in January. It just feels like September !

If you pre-ordered back in September then you're really getting ripped off, since you couldn't order it until after the Keynote in January!

Peace
Feb 26, 2007, 05:28 PM
I think it's already overpriced as it is :p

It's not overpriced.I personally think it's a great piece of hardware.Apple just needs to get their collective * together and ramp up those guys that write code for iTunes,Quicktime and Leopard.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 05:34 PM
Sorry but the reality is that iTV sucks. Lame remote, can't view anything unless its in your itunes library. Must sync it like an ipod, only 40gb hd. Stupid front row interface.

How am i going to watch my eyeTV recorded tv shows? Why can't I stream the massive amounts of video I have on my hard drive? Why can't I have a remote that I won't lose and with more functionality. Why is it freakin $300?

I must say this is the first apple product I will not buy. Its too lame. I can just plug my ipod into my tv if I want these features.

Sticking with my xbox 360 and media center. This setup way rocks.

Are you running media center on a Mac?

balamw
Feb 26, 2007, 05:35 PM
The Apple online store changed the date to Mid-March so it's really official now.
Yup. My order is now slated to ship 3/20 with delivery expected 3/23, if that's the definition of mid march. I'd call then closer to the end of march. :(

Not canceling mine though...

B

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 05:36 PM
It's not overpriced.I personally think it's a great piece of hardware.Apple just needs to get their collective * together and ramp up those guys that write code for iTunes,Quicktime and Leopard.

I think it's overpriced for what it is. 300 bucks for a wireless bridge to your tv that plays itunes content. WAY overpriced if thats all it does.

macenforcer
Feb 26, 2007, 05:36 PM
Are you running media center on a Mac?

No. Old sony vaio with 2tb of HDs. Its got a dual tuner too. Its awesome. Sits in the basement and records all day long.

I could run it on my mac but why put my beautiful mac in the basement? That is where pcs belong. :p

macridah
Feb 26, 2007, 05:37 PM
The status of my ordered changed from Feb 28 to Mar 20. totally weak. I ordered the same day, more like hour, it was available on the apple store after the keynote. oh well.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 05:43 PM
No. Old sony vaio with 2tb of HDs. Its got a dual tuner too. Its awesome. Sits in the basement and records all day long.

I could run it on my mac but why put my beautiful mac in the basement? That is where pcs belong. :p

Yeah, you could run it on a mac but macs dont have tv tuners.

Thats what macs need. A tv tuner not itv.

OllyW
Feb 26, 2007, 05:43 PM
It's not overpriced.I personally think it's a great piece of hardware.Apple just needs to get their collective * together and ramp up those guys that write code for iTunes,Quicktime and Leopard.

It might be ok value in the USA with the video content you have on the iTunes Store but it seems a little pointless over here in the UK.

For the same money I picked up a 160GB, twin digital tuner Freeview PVR (http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/products/pvr-9200t.asp), which makes a whole lot more sense to me. I'm hoping the 2nd Gen :apple: TV will be a lot more inspiring.

mazola
Feb 26, 2007, 05:45 PM
... it will be obsolete -- ha, ha!

steve_hill4
Feb 26, 2007, 05:45 PM
Left the Apple site opened up in Safari as I went to the pub for the Monday quiz, (had to watch the security ad again, by far the best yet). I came back, went to the homepage to see if anything had changed since earlier and then clicked on :apple: tv to see if any update to the store details since we only had a few days left. I saw it had changed to Mid-March and rushed here to see if anyone else had spotted it.

I guess that gives us more time at work to try and get the Netgear EVA700, (catchy name), to work. Was trying to get that up and running before :apple: tv so people could see how much better it was. I guess the fact we have had problems with the set-up advertises going for the :apple: tv in itself.

macenforcer
Feb 26, 2007, 05:45 PM
Yeah, you could run it on a mac but macs dont have tv tuners.

Thats what macs need. A tv tuner not itv.

Actually it will work. There are tons of usb tv tuners out there and if you install meda center on your mac it will work. Havn't tried a tv tuner card though.

localoid
Feb 26, 2007, 05:47 PM
I think it's overpriced for what it is. 300 bucks for a wireless bridge to your tv that plays itunes content. WAY overpriced if thats all it does.

Well, not really... it would appear to be 'way more than "just" a bridge... if, that is, the supposed hardware components/configuration are what the rumors claim them to be -- basically a interestingly-equipped standalone (mini) computer system for about $300 -- the makings of many different sorts of standalone system and "interesting devices", if, that is, Apple would open up the (mini) OSX and hardware architecture, etc. But yes.... What are the chances of that happening? And/or how "hackable" will it really be? Questions that only time will reveal... :p

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 05:48 PM
Actually it will work. There are tons of usb tv tuners out there and if you install meda center on your mac it will work. Havn't tried a tv tuner card though.

I'll have to look into it. I have a 360 but no pc (happy mac convert) and was feeling a bit left out not being able to take advantage of media center.

EagerDragon
Feb 26, 2007, 05:49 PM
Hear that? that's the sound of another Rev A disaster unfolding. :p

Or just not enough units to fill requests.

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 05:50 PM
Yeah, you could run it on a mac but macs dont have tv tuners.

Thats what macs need. A tv tuner not itv.

And that's what Miglia TVHD is for. I'm sure
that Miglia will soon be releasing a plug-in for
use with :apple:TV. The recording and programming
on this thing is excellent - I haven't used my
50" Rear Proj. TV since using the Miglia tuner
on my 24" iMac - The HD TV shows are addictively
gorgeous.

nsjoker
Feb 26, 2007, 05:50 PM
Oh stop complaining. Nobody here is actually going to buy an :apple:TV... are they? :rolleyes:

I guess it's semi useful if you don't have a 360, TiVo, or some other media extension device.

rmcalhany
Feb 26, 2007, 05:51 PM
happened sometime after lunch today. changed from 2/28 to 3/20. I ordered mine the day after it was announced.

this really sucks.

Robert

job
Feb 26, 2007, 05:53 PM
Why are people so stuck in the hard media paradigm? Instead of asking Apple to decide between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD I would rather see people asking them to make HD content available from iTunes. Making  TV completely media dependent. In five years when the next leap is made in HD technology, the enduser will not have to add yet another player to their system, but instead just upload (if necessary) the proper patch to TV and then purchase the content from iTunes.

As I have said in the past, their is no reason why Apple cannot provide 1080P content (besides the fact there isn't much 1080P content available) from the iTunes store.

Yeah, I hear the rumbling now about the long download times, but seriously couldn't Apple just break the Chapters into individual downloads (like an album or like the VIDEO_TS folder on a DVD) and then write some simple code to always play the files in order.

Also remember that Apple claims that movies from iTunes will be 720P (which is better than 1080i).

Sounds like a no brainer to me!

Quoted for truth.

DVDs/CDs/physical media is dying, long live on demand downloads.

ortuno2k
Feb 26, 2007, 06:01 PM
All this :apple: TV & iPhone rant...again.
I could really care less for it; I won't be buying one. Never cared. Same thing for the stupid iPhone. Am I the only person who's dropped the ball on these two products and doesn't see the hype behind them?
Flame awayyy...

ortuno2k
Feb 26, 2007, 06:03 PM
Quoted for truth.

DVDs/CDs/physical media is dying, long live on demand downloads.

I don't know about you, but I still prefer to buy my media and have a hard copy of the original. I do purchase random songs and singles from the iTunes Store, but nothing else. I still purchase CDs and DVDs.
"Yes, but you can burn it on CD and back-it-up..."
I know, but it's not the same.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 06:03 PM
All this :apple: TV & iPhone rant...again.
I could really care less for it; I won't be buying one. Never cared. Same thing for the stupid iPhone. Am I the only person who's dropped the ball on these two products and doesn't see the hype behind them?
Flame awayyy...

I'm not sold on the :apple: tv but I would have interest in the iphone if didnt cost so damn much. 500 beans is a joke for an ipod that has a phone.

pdpfilms
Feb 26, 2007, 06:04 PM
The status of my ordered changed from Feb 28 to Mar 20. totally weak. I ordered the same day, more like hour, it was available on the apple store after the keynote. oh well.

Ditto. Super weak sauce, apple. Boo.
I fully understand the importance of ironing out all the bugs, but nonetheless, they missed their promised delivery date by over two weeks.

NightStorm
Feb 26, 2007, 06:07 PM
Am I the only one who wonders why people who have absolutely zero interest in a product feel obligated to enter every single thread about said product and complain that it doesn't meet their needs and must then obviously suck? I for one do not want a Xbox 360 (already have a Wii and a PS3), do not want PVR capabilities (I have a S3 Tivo), and do not want a bigger hard drive or some additional features. I just want the ability to stream my iTunes content to my television/entertainment center; something that you cannot do with any other solution people always seem to offer here (and yes, I'm talking about the protected content).

EDIT: Oh, and before anyone else suggests it, no I do not want the hassle of always hooking/unhooking my laptop to my computer when I want to play something.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 06:10 PM
I don't know about you, but I still prefer to buy my media and have a hard copy of the original. I do purchase random songs and singles from the iTunes Store, but nothing else. I still purchase CDs and DVDs.
"Yes, but you can burn it on CD and back-it-up..."
I know, but it's not the same.

Well the itunes sound quality is not the same as cd thats for sure. I dont play my music thru super hi fi equipment anymore so the difference in negligible to me. Video content is another story.

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 06:11 PM
Ditto. Super weak sauce, apple. Boo.
I fully understand the importance of ironing out all the bugs, but nonetheless, they missed their promised delivery date by over two weeks.

Two weeks is nuttin' to cry about.......

danielwsmithee
Feb 26, 2007, 06:12 PM
Sorry but the reality is that iTV sucks. Lame remote, can't view anything unless its in your itunes library. Must sync it like an ipod, only 40gb hd. Stupid front row interface.

How am i going to watch my eyeTV recorded tv shows? Why can't I stream the massive amounts of video I have on my hard drive? Why can't I have a remote that I won't lose and with more functionality. Why is it freakin $300?

I must say this is the first apple product I will not buy. Its too lame. I can just plug my ipod into my tv if I want these features.

Sticking with my xbox 360 and media center. This setup way rocks.

I don't really understand your sentiment.
1) One of the best things about the Apple TV is the remote. I love how simple and intuitive it is, and from the looks of the interface it will give you all the functionality you need. The nice thing about it being the identical remote to the computers is it cheap and easy to replace it. Loosing it is going to be your own problem though. Personally I think I might glue a magnet on my coffee table to mount it to when not in use. I like the frontrow interface.

2) You can sync your eyeTV recorded data to it just like you can now to the iPod. There is a little checkbox in eyeTV to automaticly export to iTunes. If you check that everything you record will show up imediatly for streaming on your Apple TV.

3) You can stream the massive amounts of videos you have they just must be inside iTunes. It might be nice to just get anything on a network share, but I can live with putting my content in iTunes.

I would like to see a larger HD so it doesn't have to stream as much of my library, but ultimatly that will come with future revisions.

As far as price is concerned how much are you willing to pay? Because $299 seams like a fair price when compared to an iPod. It also is much better then paying for a mini, and it has component out which is important for me since I don't have HDMI on my TV.

Obviously if you already have an XBMC why would you want something else that does the same thing.

Do any of you remember when the MacBook Pro first came out and was delayed by about a month, then Apple upgraded the processor for everyone. Could they do the same here to appease the masses 80 GB?

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 06:14 PM
I don't really understand your sentiment.
1) One of the best things about the Apple TV is the remote. I love how simple and intuitive it is, and from the looks of the interface it will give you all the functionality you need. The nice thing about it being the identical remote to the computers is it cheap and easy to replace it. Loosing it is going to be your own problem though. Personally I think I might glue a magnet on my coffee table to mount it to when not in use. I like the frontrow interface.

2) You can sync your eyeTV recorded data to it just like you can now to the iPod. There is a little checkbox in eyeTV to automaticly export to iTunes. If you check that everything you record will show up imediatly for streaming on your Apple TV.

3) You can stream the massive amounts of videos you have they just must be inside iTunes. It might be nice to just get anything on a network share, but I can live with putting my content in iTunes.

I would like to see a larger HD so it doesn't have to stream as much of my library, but ultimatly that will come with future revisions.

As far as price is concerned how much are you willing to pay? Because $299 seams like a fair price when compared to an iPod. It also is much better then paying for a mini, and it has component out which is important for me since I don't have HDMI on my TV.

Obviously if you already have an XBMC why would you want something else that does the same thing.

Do any of you remember when the MacBook Pro first came out and was delayed by about a month, then Apple upgraded the processor for everyone. Could they do the same here to appease the masses 80 GB?

Thanks for clarifying the procedure for connecting EyeTV with
iTunes..... I didn't think of that - great solution:)

iMikeT
Feb 26, 2007, 06:16 PM
Could we be seeing a Leopard and iWork '07 and iLife '06 release along with the :apple: tv?

lazyrighteye
Feb 26, 2007, 06:20 PM
I've read the specs and I'm in denial.
Any way my TV and an :apple: TV will play nice (read: at all)?

If not, any ideas how they might?

Thanks.

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 06:20 PM
Ya because I can stream all my iTunes bought stuff w/ the PS3:rolleyes:


Rolls eyes at that suggestion because none of the video you've so far purchased from the iTunes Store is in HD, let alone basement-level HD.

NightStorm
Feb 26, 2007, 06:21 PM
Thanks for clarifying the procedure for connecting EyeTV with
iTunes..... I didn't think of that - great solution:)
Elgato even mentions how the EyeTV and AppleTV would be a great pair on their website and that they will be updating their software as quickly as they can to extend their support for the specifications of the AppleTV.

nateDEEZY
Feb 26, 2007, 06:23 PM
Could we be seeing a Leopard and iWork '07 and iLife '06 release along with the :apple: tv?

Thats a little wishful thinking ;]

But we can hope. :D

EricNau
Feb 26, 2007, 06:28 PM
Does the :apple:tv up-convert content (similar to many DVD players)?

slffl
Feb 26, 2007, 06:31 PM
Hear that? that's the sound of another Rev A disaster unfolding. :p

What were some other Rev A disasters?

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 06:34 PM
Hmm, ok so the eyetv and :apple: tv will act like a tivo. So why didnt apple just put out the :apple: tv with a tuner and be done with it.

patrick0brien
Feb 26, 2007, 06:35 PM
I've read the specs and I'm in denial.
Any way my TV and an :apple: TV will play nice (read: at all)?

If not, any ideas how they might?

Thanks.

-lazyrighteye

What do ya got?

Anything certified Hi-Def should work.

slffl
Feb 26, 2007, 06:35 PM
I for one can't wait for this. And for all the people who want the iTV to be like Media Center, I personally don't like the interface for Vistas Media Center. It's way too small for a TV.

BTW, If you don't like it, move on. Apple's not going to change product features based on forum suggestions.

NightStorm
Feb 26, 2007, 06:35 PM
Hmm, ok so the eyetv and :apple: tv will act like a tivo. So why didnt apple just put out the :apple: tv with a tuner and be done with it.
Because then the people who didn't need this functionality (ie. just wanted a system to get iTunes content to their TV) would complain about having to pay more money for something they didn't need. Also, it would make the overall device more complex, and eat into the iTunes sales which I'm sure Steve and company are expecting from this device.

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 06:36 PM
Am I the only one who wonders why people who have absolutely zero interest in a product feel obligated to enter every single thread about said product and complain that it doesn't meet their needs and must then obviously suck?


Because maybe if more people complain about WHY they won't be buying the product [AppleTV], perhaps Apple will take notice and then implement solutions for their 2.0 model.

Look how much online complaining it took before Apple implemented gapless playback on the iPods. Had they done that from the start, Apple would have reduced the 3 Creative MP3 players sold by 3. (sarcasm). Perhaps Apple will give OGG/FLAC playback on iPods by the 7G release in order to further cut out their me-too competitors.


I for one do not want a Xbox 360 (already have a Wii and a PS3), do not want PVR capabilities (I have a S3 Tivo), and do not want a bigger hard drive or some additional features. I just want the ability to stream my iTunes content to my television/entertainment center; something that you cannot do with any other solution people always seem to offer here (and yes, I'm talking about the protected content).


Then complain about Apple not buying TiVo. Had they done so, chances are you could stream your audio iTunes purchases to your S3. Unfortunately, Apple is too cheap to part with $400 million (from their $12 billion war chest) that it would take to buy Tivo outright and start integrating the compatible user base(s). You'd think Apple would do something smart like that, since it would only cost 4 times what their settlement with Creative amounted to.


EDIT: Oh, and before anyone else suggests it, no I do not want the hassle of always hooking/unhooking my laptop to my computer when I want to play something.


Uhm, there's a company called Sling that's working on stuff in the field. Perhaps Apple should buy them up with some of their spare chump-change and pre-emptively c-block Motorola and Cisco and their eventual patent-trolling lawsuits against Apple when such features make it to the Mac platform.

patrick0brien
Feb 26, 2007, 06:37 PM
Hmm, ok so the eyetv and :apple: tv will act like a tivo. So why didnt apple just put out the :apple: tv with a tuner and be done with it.

-Lucy Brown

I, for one, already have a Tivo and actually appreciate that being a totally separate device as it handles what I consider to be different content than what the :apple:TV is for, just as different as a DVD player.

But that's just me.

EricNau
Feb 26, 2007, 06:37 PM
Hmm, ok so the eyetv and :apple: tv will act like a tivo. So why didnt apple just put out the :apple: tv with a tuner and be done with it.
Personally, I think it's more intuitive to have the computer record and store the media, and just stream it to the TV when ready. After all, it's much easier to set up recording times on a computer screen with a mouse than a TV screen with a remote.

Now all we need is Apple to do it. :)

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 06:39 PM
Because then the people who didn't need this functionality (ie. just wanted a system to get iTunes content to their TV) would complain about having to pay more money for something they didn't need. Also, it would make the overall device more complex, and eat into the iTunes sales which I'm sure Steve and company are expecting from this device.


That is a lamest excuse repeated verbatim on the net...eating into iTunes Store sales. If that's the case, then Apple better cut MP3 playback from the iPod line because it is theoretically hurting their iTunes Music Sales.

Adding DVR functionality is a selling point. Content sales are supposed to drive hardware sales, because if Apple was truly interested in increasing content sales, then they would license the FairPlay DRM to their competitors and gain a de facto online media store monopoly fair-and-square.

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 06:42 PM
I, for one, already have a Tivo and actually appreciate that being a totally separate device as it handles what I consider to be different content than what the :apple:TV is for, just as different as a DVD player. But that's just me.


How exactly do you figure? TiVo is going into online sales/rentals with their Amazon Unbox partnership. Its the same market. Problem is, TiVo seems to be smarter than Apple in this regard, but they don't have Apple's $12 billion in reserves that could be used to bury the AppleTV with.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 06:42 PM
Personally, I think it's more intuitive to have the computer record and store the media, and just stream it to the TV when ready. After all, it's much easier to set up recording times on a computer screen with a mouse than a TV screen with a remote.

Now all we need is Apple to do it. :)

Bravo! I agree.

ukmichael27@hot
Feb 26, 2007, 06:43 PM
Ok, so appleTV is pushed to March 20...I understand things happen, but I think it would be nice for Apple to send an email to everyone that pre-ordered just to let them know...rather than just changing the date and assuming that people would would be fine with it (or wouldn't notice).

lawclerk
Feb 26, 2007, 06:46 PM
Has anyone heard if the hard drive will be replaceable with a larger one? I'd gladly buy one and stick a massive harddrive in it. I know it has a USB port, any chance of being able to hook up a external drive? What about a networked drive?

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 06:47 PM
How exactly do you figure? TiVo is going into online sales/rentals with their Amazon Unbox partnership. Its the same market. Problem is, TiVo seems to be smarter than Apple in this regard, but they don't have Apple's $12 billion in reserves that could be used to bury the AppleTV with.

This is what I dont understand. Why didnt they launch this thing with movie rentals. The movie purchasing on itunes is not nearly enough to stir my interest. 15 bucks for a downloaded movie? Watch pod casts on my tv. Who cares.

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 06:47 PM
BTW, If you don't like it, move on. Apple's not going to change product features based on forum suggestions.


*Cough* gapless playback on iPods *cough*.


No, Apple is never interested in hearing feedback from its customers on how to improve their products. Never, because Slffl said so in an online forum...

I guess this website link is a figment of my imagination, Slffl...
http://www.apple.com/feedback/

NightStorm
Feb 26, 2007, 06:48 PM
How exactly do you figure? TiVo is going into online sales/rentals with their Amazon Unbox partnership. Its the same market. Problem is, TiVo seems to be smarter than Apple in this regard, but they don't have Apple's $12 billion in reserves that could be used to bury the AppleTV with.

So far this is vaporware for those of us who own Series3 Tivos. At the rate Tivo has been adding things into the S3 units, Apple will probably have established and taken over the online rental market by the time its enabled.

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 06:50 PM
This is what I dont understand. Why didnt they launch this thing with movie rentals. The movie purchasing on itunes is not nearly enough to stir my interest. 15 bucks for a downloaded movie? Watch pod casts on my tv. Who cares.


The reasoning is known as "hubris".

Jobs also said a couple of years back that DVRs wouldn't catch on unless they were built inside the televisions. So, uhm, where are the Apple branded LCD television screens with built-in AppleTV functionality? Hell, I bet Sony will license its "LocationFree" platform to their competitors before Apple does similarly with their tech...

At the rate Tivo has been adding things into the S3 units, Apple will probably have established and taken over the online rental market by the time its enabled.


Not at the $15 per movie price. Nor at $1.99 per TV show either. The only way this would work is if they adopted NetFlix subscription prices for a similar number of titles per month. And there's no indication that this is the plan, although if they were currently in negotiations of this, it would make sense why the AppleTV just became delayed (as I posted several hours ago here).

Then again, had Apple simply purchased TiVo, the Series3 could be based upon the MacMini platform + the CableCard technology instead of the expensive custom hardware that TiVo is shipping. Just based upon the economies-of-scale cost reductions that an Apple-owned TiVo would bring, Apple wouldn't even need to continue the subscription fees that TiVo currently relies upon. But I guess that's too intelligent for the executive team at Cupertino to grasp.

freakyTaj
Feb 26, 2007, 06:55 PM
cough*
1080p capability in wired mode
42 inch apple cinemaTV with hdmi 1.3 and some sweet wireless feature
mac pro octo-core
mac book pros shipping with leopard + 4gigs ram option
march 20 = geekout time
cough*

NightStorm
Feb 26, 2007, 06:59 PM
Not at the $15 per movie price. Nor at $1.99 per TV show either. The only way this would work is if they adopted NetFlix subscription prices for a similar number of titles per month. And there's no indication that this is the plan, although if they were currently in negotiations of this, it would make sense why the AppleTV just became delayed (as I posted several hours ago here).

Then again, had Apple simply purchased TiVo, the Series3 could be based upon the MacMini platform + the CableCard technology instead of the expensive custom hardware that TiVo is shipping. Just based upon the economies-of-scale cost reductions that an Apple-owned TiVo would bring, Apple wouldn't even need to continue the subscription fees that TiVo currently relies upon. But I guess that's too intelligent for the executive team at Cupertino to grasp.
If you read my post, I said that Apple will have established a rental system. I am pretty confident that this will happen sooner rather than later; I believe it is a much easier sell to the studios to allow for HD movies to be rented online, but not purchased. They don't want to cannibalize their HD-DVD/Bluray sales, especially so early in the product's lifecycle.

As for Apple buying Tivo, I agree that would have been nice, but a risky move on Apple's part. Has Tivo reported a profitable year yet? Their userbase isn't really growing, and in fact, shrinking as people deactivate their Tivos and go with DVRs supplied by their cable providers and DirecTV.

bpd115
Feb 26, 2007, 07:00 PM
I'd be all over the AppleTV and moving all my DVDs to a media server to stream to AppleTV but there is one thing I haven't found a solution for....preserving the 5.1 audio.

patrick0brien
Feb 26, 2007, 07:01 PM
How exactly do you figure? TiVo is going into online sales/rentals with their Amazon Unbox partnership. Its the same market. Problem is, TiVo seems to be smarter than Apple in this regard, but they don't have Apple's $12 billion in reserves that could be used to bury the AppleTV with.

-Lynxpro

Because :apple:TV not designed for live content. If a market develops in the future, well...

Until, then, I think a gradual approach is wise.

Curtis72
Feb 26, 2007, 07:04 PM
For Apple to support a subcription and/or rental service, they would have to update FairPlay to handle it. I would rent a movie from iTunes, but only if the rental period lasted for 30 days. I have, unforunately, fallen into the habit of renting a Blockbuster DVD and never watch it. :( I think someone placed a whammie on me 5 years ago.

I WOULDN'T SUBCRIBE TO A MONTHLY RENTAL SERVICE.

So has the been any specuation that the reason for the delay isn't actually with the hardware or iTunes client but instead with the iTunes servers? I am thinking the real delay is caused by server upgrades to handle "true" 720p HD movies.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 07:07 PM
I'd be all over the AppleTV and moving all my DVDs to a media server to stream to AppleTV but there is one thing I haven't found a solution for....preserving the 5.1 audio.

Wow, I never thought of that. Thats a deal breaker. I have a nice surround system for my 42" lcd. Like I'm going to watch a 5.1 movie in 2.0.

mduser63
Feb 26, 2007, 07:09 PM
Ok, so appleTV is pushed to March 20...I understand things happen, but I think it would be nice for Apple to send an email to everyone that pre-ordered just to let them know...rather than just changing the date and assuming that people would would be fine with it (or wouldn't notice).

I just now (like 1 minute ago) got an email from Apple about the delay. To Our Valued Apple Customer:


Thank you for ordering the new Apple TV, an easy to use and fun way to
wirelessly play all your favorite iTunes content from your Mac or PC on your
widescreen TV.

Wrapping up Apple TV is taking a few weeks longer than we projected, and we
now expect to begin shipments in mid-March, not in February as originally
anticipated.

You may check the status of your order any time by visiting our online order
status website at http://www.apple.com/orderstatus.

A shipment notification, with tracking information, will be emailed to you as
soon as your order is shipped. There is no need to contact us unless you
choose to change or cancel your order.

We appreciate your business and thank you for shopping at the Apple Store!

Sincerely,
The Apple Store Team

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 07:09 PM
For Apple to support a subcription and/or rental service, they would have to update FairPlay to handle it. I would rent a movie from iTunes, but only if the rental period lasted for 30 days. I have, unforunately, fallen into the habit of renting a Blockbuster DVD and never watch it. :( I think someone placed a whammie on me 5 years ago.

I WOULDN'T SUBCRIBE TO A MONTHLY RENTAL SERVICE.

So has the been any specuation that the reason for the delay isn't actually with the hardware or iTunes client but instead with the iTunes servers? I am thinking the real delay is caused by server upgrades to handle "true" 720p HD movies.

Thats really the bottom line here for most people. I wouldnt buy a movie from itunes but I would rent one.

eddyg
Feb 26, 2007, 07:10 PM
Hi,

FYI my ship is still 28/2/2007 deliver 2/3/2007. I ordered on 11/1/2007. So I guess they are updating the orders in order of order date and haven't got to mine as yet.

Cheers, Ed.

Frisco
Feb 26, 2007, 07:12 PM
I only rent movies. No matter how good a movie is I can't watch it more than once. Please offer a rental service!

parkds
Feb 26, 2007, 07:12 PM
I also just received my email from Apple. March 20th seems to be pushing the definition of "mid March" to me though.

elppa
Feb 26, 2007, 07:16 PM
I just now (like 1 minute ago) got an email from Apple about the delay.

Wrapping up Apple TV is taking a few weeks longer than we projected, and we now expect to begin shipments in mid-March, not in February as originally
anticipated.



I like the way the release date now becomes an "anticipated" release date.

Nice little play with words there.

:D

Curtis72
Feb 26, 2007, 07:17 PM
I only rent movies. No matter how good a movie is I can't watch it more than once. Please offer a rental service!

True. I also got into a habit of buying DVDs and never watching them. No whammie, I am just waiting to get my "ultimate" home theather system.

But I actually didn't order the Apple TV to watch TV or movies primarly, but for its on-screen music catalog browsing. I have an Apple Airport Express and I hate going back and forth from my Mac just to situation playlists or pause the damn thing. I know there are other less expensive alternatives to the Apple TV.

balamw
Feb 26, 2007, 07:19 PM
Hi,

FYI my ship is still 28/2/2007 deliver 2/3/2007. I ordered on 11/1/2007. So I guess they are updating the orders in order of order date and haven't got to mine as yet.

Cheers, Ed.

For the unwashed Americans who write dates backwards that's January 11 and February 28. :p

Hope your date is still valid.

B

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 07:20 PM
I only rent movies. No matter how good a movie is I can't watch it more than once. Please offer a rental service!

I was into collecting dvds when they 1st came out, then I came to my senses.
I have about a dozen dvds now. Mainly box sets of trilogy type movies or directors cuts like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc. Stuff that doesnt really wear out for me. I may buy one movie a year now. Renting is a different story. Thats the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow

Lynxpro
Feb 26, 2007, 07:22 PM
As for Apple buying Tivo, I agree that would have been nice, but a risky move on Apple's part. Has Tivo reported a profitable year yet? Their userbase isn't really growing, and in fact, shrinking as people deactivate their Tivos and go with DVRs supplied by their cable providers and DirecTV.


TiVo has had one profitable quarter. The reason why they aren't profitable is because their hardware costs are expensive because they can't command lower prices like Apple does due to Apple's economies-of-scale. IF Apple purchased TiVo, TiVo's business model would be profitable because of the lower hardware costs. As I stated in my prior post.

As for DVR growth, it isn't TiVo's fault that Echostar/DISH Network stole their intellectual property and the court case continues to drag on due to appeals. As for DirecTV, TiVo lost out because pig-headed Rupert Murdoch strong-armed DirecTV to ditch TiVo in favor of shoring up Murdoch's investment in the failure known as NDS Corp. which since then has made (and massively delayed each time) the DirecTV DVR models under contract. Now that Murdoch has sold out his (ie. "News Corp") 33% stake in DirecTV to John Malone, things might revert back in favor of TiVo. Malone is a pragmatist, and he probably has noticed that Comcast, CableVision, and other cablecos are lining up to license the TiVo software to run atop their Motorola DVRs they've stockpiled. If you think the cableco set-top boxes are a threat to TiVo, then you should also consider them a threat to the AppleTV since some of them also can do audio and video streaming, just not iTunes content.

There was no risk on Apple's part to buy TiVo, and much to gain. Gaining a complementing brand, a compatible user base, and all that intellectual property to boot.

donlphi
Feb 26, 2007, 07:24 PM
Let's see... how can I put a positive spin on this...

It's all a part of their master plan.

or

They are probably going to release the new full screen iPODS at the same time.

or

They wanted to be able to release it with the new Apple Hi-Fi II

or

They wanted to incorporate a new broadcast feature so you can watch your movies wirelessly on your iPhone or other handheld device... maybe that's why we don't have a lot of HD space on the iPhone - Introducing APPLE SLINGBOX (Kinda like Slingbox, but with Apple before it).

no surprise on the delay though...

donlphi
Feb 26, 2007, 07:37 PM
TiVo has had one profitable quarter. The reason why they aren't profitable is because their hardware costs are expensive because they can't command lower prices like Apple does due to Apple's economies-of-scale. IF Apple purchased TiVo, TiVo's business model would be profitable because of the lower hardware costs. As I stated in my prior post.

As for DVR growth, it isn't TiVo's fault that Echostar/DISH Network stole their intellectual property and the court case continues to drag on due to appeals. As for DirecTV, TiVo lost out because pig-headed Rupert Murdoch strong-armed DirecTV to ditch TiVo in favor of shoring up Murdoch's investment in the failure known as NDS Corp. which since then has made (and massively delayed each time) the DirecTV DVR models under contract. Now that Murdoch has sold out his (ie. "News Corp") 33% stake in DirecTV to John Malone, things might revert back in favor of TiVo. Malone is a pragmatist, and he probably has noticed that Comcast, CableVision, and other cablecos are lining up to license the TiVo software to run atop their Motorola DVRs they've stockpiled. If you think the cableco set-top boxes are a threat to TiVo, then you should also consider them a threat to the AppleTV since some of them also can do audio and video streaming, just not iTunes content.

There was no risk on Apple's part to buy TiVo, and much to gain. Gaining a complementing brand, a compatible user base, and all that intellectual property to boot.

I think Comcast is way on top when it comes to features and on demand selections. Pair that up with a Slingbox Pro and you have WAY more than you will ever get with an :apple: TV.

I can watch the same old paramount or disney movies for free on comcast anytime I want. I can access them from anywhere I want with my laptop and EV-DO Broadband Card or my work computer or my Pocket PC. Apple TV is missing that key ingredient. I can also watch my saved shows. I can set my DVR to record things when I realize I can't get home on time.

No additional cost. Technically, you would be able to hook up your :apple: TV too, but for what?

I really don't care about the TiVo or Comcast thing, I have comcast and I'm sure TiVo works nicely, but I had to put in a plug for Slingbox if you haven't ever paired it up with your DVR. Definitely worth the $179 (AV) - $225 (pro). Biggest downer... it doesn't work with PALM OS yet and no REAL zoom features.

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 07:44 PM
I'm not sold on the :apple: tv but I would have interest in the iphone if didnt cost so damn much. 500 beans is a joke for an ipod that has a phone.

Seems few were concerned with the $499 price of the
RAZR when it was first introduced - fewer features,
played no music, no real-time internet, no touch screen,
low resolution, no HD, yet quite novel........ Why then is
$500 too much to ask for a portable unix machine that
does all this and more?

patrick0brien
Feb 26, 2007, 07:46 PM
-DMann

Thank you!!!

Bout time somebody said it.

I thought it was $800?

BKMaggert
Feb 26, 2007, 08:01 PM
A two week delay is NOTHING.

Yeah Apple came out this morning and said there was a TWO week delay. This afternoon I got notice that my order was delayed from February 28 to March 20.

That would be a 21 day delay, which is THREE weeks on my calendar. Amazing. We got another week delay in only a half a day.

I bet bet my order (within hours of the announcement) doesn't arrive until April now. Announce a product for February, only to have it delivered in April. They're playing a little loose with their promises for my tastes.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 08:03 PM
Seems few were concerned with the $499 price of the
RAZR when it was first introduced - fewer features,
played no music, no real-time internet, no touch screen,
low resolution, no HD, yet quite novel........ Why then is
$500 too much to ask for a portable unix machine that
does all this and more?

Because I dont need a portable unix machine and I already have an ipod and a cell phone and dont really want to switch cell phone carrier. Also for those who want one, there a plenty of smart phones on the market that are much cheaper than the iphone. They're just not made by Apple.

I do admit to wanting an iphone. I just dont need an iphone so I'll wait till the price drops enough to my liking, and if doesnt I'm not buying one.

lazyrighteye
Feb 26, 2007, 08:09 PM
-lazyrighteye

What do ya got?

Anything certified Hi-Def should work.

Yeah. 8 year old Zenith. :(
Nice set, but... well...
Def puts :apple: TV off my list.

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 08:17 PM
Because I dont need a portable unix machine and I already have an ipod and a cell phone and dont really want to switch cell phone carrier. Also for those who want one, there a plenty of smart phones on the market that are much cheaper than the iphone. They're just not made by Apple.

I do admit to wanting an iphone. I just dont need an iphone so I'll wait till the price drops enough to my liking, and if doesnt I'm not buying one.

Well, so do I...... I've got a RAZR, three iPods, a Pocket PC,
a GPS, a laptop, and a contract with T-Mobile until January 2009.
I'll be switching over to AT&T and paying the $200 penalty so that
I can have all of these gadgets streamlined into one. If AT&T is
paying for my first two years of service with roll-over minutes,
this more than pays for the cancellation fee, as well as subsidizes
the purchase.

As far as all of my others gadgets, I'll keep them for spares,
in case of the iPhone gets stolen. Or, I might just sell the lot on eBay.....

stephenli
Feb 26, 2007, 08:25 PM
I totally agree. I got the 20GB PS3 and love it. One thing Apple has is software integration. PS3 lacks the network sharing that AppleTV promises. iPhoto, iTunes integration. I wish PS3 would support that.

well, yes. 20GB PS3 lacks networksharing.
u should buy 60GB. it works fine with PSP wirelessly!

well...photos & music apps with PS3, thats not bad, but....sony will not do it for us.....if yes it must be VAIO not OSX

Old Smuggler
Feb 26, 2007, 08:27 PM
hey if you dont want the phone, tv or ps3 dont buy it
move on

sorry other people have different opinions
guess you missed class that day in grade school

BayAreaMacFan
Feb 26, 2007, 08:51 PM
One thing we know for sure is that before Apple TV is released to the public iTunes 7.1 must be released. I don't know if it will simply come by itself or with some bigger package (Leopard, iLife '07, etc.), but if you get the podcast of MacWorld '07 off of iTunes and go to the 23:50 mark where Steve connects wirelessly to Phil's MacBook, on the bottom of the screen it says that Apple TV requires iTunes 7.1 or later.

whatever
Feb 26, 2007, 09:12 PM
I don't know about you, but I still prefer to buy my media and have a hard copy of the original. I do purchase random songs and singles from the iTunes Store, but nothing else. I still purchase CDs and DVDs.
"Yes, but you can burn it on CD and back-it-up..."
I know, but it's not the same.
I was in the same boat as you, but overtime I've changed my tune completely.

I have a couple thousand CD and a few hundred DVDs and it's become a chore to flip through them (I'm an organizational freak to boot!)

These days my CDs and DVDs are collecting dust. I buy a CD, the first thing I do is rip in iTunes and file it away. DVDs I lend out and often I never get them back.

My music shopping habits has greatly changed, I would say that 90% of everything comes from iTunes and as far as DVDs go, I've stop buying them because I don't have the space to store them.

eddyg
Feb 26, 2007, 09:12 PM
There was no risk on Apple's part to buy TiVo, and much to gain. Gaining a complementing brand, a compatible user base, and all that intellectual property to boot.

There is more to acquiring a company than just whether it fits market and customer wise. More important is how that company fits within Apple itself. How would Tivo culture clash or integrate with Apple culture. The companies don't mesh well internally then it will never work irrespective of the products.

I don't believe that Apple has a good record of acquisitions, most likely due to the very strong Apple culture that would be hard for them to integrate with.

Buying Tivo would put Apple in competition with Cisco again (via Scientific Atlanta) which would be a good thing. It could spur SA to bigger and better things. Maybe better integrating with Ciscos integrated home concept (which is what Cisco wants the iPhone to integrate with).


Cheers, Ed.

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 09:28 PM
Well, so do I...... I've got a RAZR, three iPods, a Pocket PC,
a GPS, a laptop, and a contract with T-Mobile until January 2009.
I'll be switching over to AT&T and paying the $200 penalty so that
I can have all of these gadgets streamlined into one. If AT&T is
paying for my first two years of service with roll-over minutes,
this more than pays for the cancellation fee, as well as subsidizes
the purchase.

As far as all of my others gadgets, I'll keep them for spares,
in case of the iPhone gets stolen. Or, I might just sell the lot on eBay.....

IF at&t is paying. Thats a mighty big IF .

I havent heard that the iphone is going to have a true gps unit within. The keynote showed a goggle map which is a totally different animal.

hey if you dont want the phone, ?tv or ps3 dont buy it
move on

sorry other people have different opinions
guess you missed class that day in grade school

Move on? Maybe you missed the class in grade school.

biggarthomas
Feb 26, 2007, 09:33 PM
I think that Apple TV hardware is ready. There is no way that if it were not ready, production could be ramped up and completed to meet pent up and anticipated demand and the product shipped in bulk and distributed, all within the next three weeks. Something else is going on. I have had an idea for a while that iTunes will carry films by all of the major studios on the day that Apple TV is released. I'll bet that there are still issues on the table between Apple and the major studios. Remember, just three weeks go, Wal Mart announced a deal to sell films at 4 pennies cheaper than Apple and from ALL of the major studios. I'll bet that Wal Mart, Apple and the studios cut a deal in principle but there are still details wo work out on the Apple/production studio end. In addition, in order to make Apple TV work, I'll bet that there will be an iTunes upgrade and that project might be holding things up. Remember the bugs in the original iTunes 7.0. I'll bet that Apple does not want to release another buggy iTunes.

Digitalclips
Feb 26, 2007, 09:44 PM
Well, so do I...... I've got a RAZR, three iPods, a Pocket PC,
a GPS, a laptop, and a contract with T-Mobile until January 2009.
I'll be switching over to AT&T and paying the $200 penalty so that
I can have all of these gadgets streamlined into one. If AT&T is
paying for my first two years of service with roll-over minutes,
this more than pays for the cancellation fee, as well as subsidizes
the purchase.

As far as all of my others gadgets, I'll keep them for spares,
in case of the iPhone gets stolen. Or, I might just sell the lot on eBay.....

You are De Man!! Great enthusiasm like yours is why I keep buying APPL stock, oh yes and every thing they make too :)

iAlan
Feb 26, 2007, 09:52 PM
Sorry, got half way through the thread and just thought 'GET OVER IT'

So some of us can't wait a couple of weeks so they are cancelling their orders - fine, whatever.

Some were waiting to fire their :apple: TV up this weekend but now can't - fine, whatever

Some are saying the PS3 is way better - fine, whatever

I do not think (and hope) Apple is deliberately delaying the release. I don't know why they are delaying - some are speculating 'bugs', some are saying 3rd party production delays, others are saying new features are being added and still others point to Leopard integration and possible Leopard release in line with :apple: TV. I don't know.

I think Apple will have a successful product on their hands once the thing is out and all 'related products' are also released - read that to be new Mac's, updated software (Leopard, iLife, and possible new TV media management tool)

I have not pre-ordered - I am waiting to see the thing in action first hand. If they have added stuff since the announcement I am looking forward to it - if not, then I will judge the box on it’s merits. And I am sure I will get one eventually - especially if content is made available in Japan!

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 09:53 PM
IF at&t is paying. Thats a mighty big IF .

I havent heard that the iphone is going to have a true gps unit within. The keynote showed a goggle map which is a totally different animal.

True, but if Google supplies maps, directions, live traffic, and Earth,
I can use that instead of the GPS. AT&T, from what I've
been hearing, will be offering a great incentive (2yrs service)
and who knows what else. We'll just have to see it when we
see it.

patrick0brien
Feb 26, 2007, 09:54 PM
-biggarthomas

That's a great point. One of the most common complaints I read from the pundits is that the TV shows available on iTunes are not at full 720p.

Perhaps there are some back room shenanigans going on.

BWhaler
Feb 26, 2007, 09:59 PM
I don't care about the delay, I just hope it's a quality product.

With the horrific Apple quality issues of late, I really hope Apple has their act together with this product. Apple TV is in the living room and has the quality expectations of a consumer product, not a Windows PC, so Apple best take their time to get it right.

rc86mike
Feb 26, 2007, 10:02 PM
I feel pretty connfident in saying March 20th holds some other release. The heavy rumors of Leapord for March 26th? If AppleTV SHIPS the 20th realistically they'll arrive to pre-order customers somewhere near the 25th and retail stores around the same time. While it is a BIG if, it's beginning not to seem so crazy. At the very least however, the 20th will bring iTunes 7.1, AppleTV, and a some larger announcement about the content on iTS. Maybe renting? But more likely major studio support and higher quality video options. Anyone agree or majorly disagree?

Lucy Brown
Feb 26, 2007, 10:03 PM
True, but if Google supplies maps, directions, live traffic, and Earth,
I can use that instead of the GPS. AT&T, from what I've
been hearing, will be offering a great incentive (2yrs service)
and who knows what else. We'll just have to see it when we
see it.

That would be the only way I would purchase the phone. They'd have to give me a big discount on the phone to make me switch over. I'm glad I dont have cingular now. I can take advantage of incentives if they have any. I just hope they dont pull that rebate crap as an incentive. Also I'd have to see what kind of service I would have in my area. I have tmobile now and it's the service is great. I have a nextel that work gives me and it's the worst service I've ever had, practically useless.

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 10:18 PM
I don't care about the delay, I just hope it's a quality product.

With the horrific Apple quality issues of late, I really hope Apple has their act together with this product. Apple TV is in the living room and has the quality expectations of a consumer product, not a Windows PC, so Apple best take their time to get it right.

When Apple produced all of its components in-house, quality
was never a problem. It was only since they've been farming
out production overseas that quality issues have been arising.
Welcome to the 21C:o

Cult Follower
Feb 26, 2007, 10:33 PM
Why didn't they tell us in the first place? Unless they decided to add Leopard dependent features they weren't planning on adding until the next revision.

JimmyTJ
Feb 26, 2007, 10:38 PM
Would anyone happen to know if you can use USB2 to string multiple devices together? There are a lot of complaints around lack of DVD, DVR, etc. and I'm wondering if it would be possible for Apple and 3rd parties to create add-on devices that would add this functionality and be linked through the USB port. For example, Apple creates an add-on DVD player (or elgato creates a DVR w/ Harddrive), in the same form factor, that can be be placed under the AppleTV and provides this missing functionality.

It would be nice to be able to add components, such as an amplifier, that you could control through the AppleTV interface and would make it easier to string all of your media devices together and have one interface and one remote.

I think AppleTV is interesting but it seems to be missing something. If it had just one more feature (DVD, DVR, ???) I would be really interested in purchasing one. If these features were add-ons, that would be OK if they would be easier to add/set-up and control than the current options.

~Shard~
Feb 26, 2007, 11:03 PM
Not the best news, but better that Apple takes the time and gets it right than rush a non-ready product (especially an important one such as Apple TV!) to the market. Stuff™ happens, delays occur every once and a while, it's just a fact of life. Hopefully a few weeks won't have too significant of an impact on sales.

And for me, it doesn't matter, since I won't be buying one regardless... :p ;) :cool:

AidenShaw
Feb 26, 2007, 11:06 PM
Would anyone happen to know if you can use USB2 to string multiple devices together?
Daisy-chaining (what I think that you mean by "string together") is a 1394 concept.

In USB land, you connect hubs to turn one port into multiples. If you connect a hub to a hub, then you get multiples again.

So, the hardware can definitely support dozens of add-on USB drives.

Not enough is known about ITV to know if adding a drive even makes sense - it's a software and marketing lockout issue as to whether additional drives would be useful.

theheadguy
Feb 26, 2007, 11:22 PM
::adds this as another example why macworld was lame::

theheadguy
Feb 26, 2007, 11:25 PM
Seems few were concerned with the $499 price of the
RAZR when it was first introduced - fewer features [snip]........ Why then is
$500 too much to ask for a portable unix machine that
does all this and more?

few were concerned, and few bought it(<--- hint hint) at $499. so yes, it is too much to ask for.

skinnylegs
Feb 26, 2007, 11:55 PM
Just for the record, I'm a recent switcher......

Frankly, I am shocked at all of the whining and complaining about a simple delay of less than 30 days. I preordered an :apple: TV and yeah....it would have been great if it were here this week but I'm certainly not 'gonna cancel my order.

DMann
Feb 26, 2007, 11:55 PM
Daisy-chaining (what I think that you mean by "string together") is a 1394 concept.

In USB land, you connect hubs to turn one port into multiples. If you connect a hub to a hub, then you get multiples again.

So, the hardware can definitely support dozens of add-on USB drives.

Not enough is known about ITV to know if adding a drive even makes sense - it's a software and marketing lockout issue as to whether additional drives would be useful.

Another way to link hardware is through Ethernet and an Ethernet hub, in a similar way you would use a USB hub. The :apple:TV has a 10/100 BASE-T Ethernet port which could be networked with your computer and other devices which also do.

skinnylegs
Feb 27, 2007, 12:09 AM
few were concerned, and few bought it(<--- hint hint) at $499. so yes, it is too much to ask for.Consider this.....

Which is more profitable for Motorolla: selling 600,000 units @ $99 or 150,000 units @ $499?

No offense but price points are not necessarily about what *you* can or cannot afford.

Capesh?

DMann
Feb 27, 2007, 12:12 AM
few were concerned, and few bought it(<--- hint hint) at $499. so yes, it is too much to ask for.

Actually, the RAZR, as Patrick pointed out, started out at $800, or $500 with a service agreement, and was an instant hit the moment it was released in 2004. By July of 2005, Motorola reported that the RAZR was the most successful phone they've ever introduced. It wasn't until sales subsided in 2006 that Motorola considered lowering the price. To this day, a replacement phone through a carrier like T-Mobile costs $349, although it is initially offered free with a two year contract.

Historically this price strategy has been successful - A price point needs to start at a premium so that it can be lowered, enticing buyers who then believe that they're getting a discount. Call it manipulative, call it unethical, call it marketing...

DMann
Feb 27, 2007, 12:15 AM
-DMann

Thank you!!!

Bout time somebody said it.

I thought it was $800?

You are quite right, Patrick - $800 without a plan, and $500 with a contract.

MacinDoc
Feb 27, 2007, 12:20 AM
I'm with those who believe the delay is linked to a delay in iTunes 7.1 (a security problem they want to patch first, maybe?) and a major change in iTMS (higher resolution, more titles, or both?). But Leopard is not yet ready for prime time, so that won't be it. Look for Mac Pros at the end of March, Leopard at the end of April, MBs, MBPs, Mac Minis and iMacs at the end of May, and the iPhone at the end of June.

AvSRoCkCO1067
Feb 27, 2007, 12:23 AM
I'm with those who believe the delay is linked to a delay in iTunes 7.1 (a security problem they want to patch first, maybe?) and a major change in iTMS (higher resolution, more titles, or both?). But Panther is not yet ready for prime time, so that won't be it. Look for Mac Pros and Mac Minis at the end of March, Panther at the end of April, MBs, MBPs and iMacs at the end of May, and the iPhone at the end of June.

Don't you mean Leopard???

stephenli
Feb 27, 2007, 12:30 AM
ok...if :apple: TV's delay is just because of new version of iTunes,
then it might be (or must be?) because of fixing those nasty bugs on longho.....oops, Vista.

thought apple's site only say that it support .... Windows XP.... haha
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

DMann
Feb 27, 2007, 12:33 AM
ok...if :apple: TV's delay is just because of new version of iTunes,
then it might be (or must be?) because of fixing those nasty bugs on longho.....oops, Vista.

thought apple's site only say that it support .... Windows XP.... haha
http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

If Apple were responsible for fixing bugs related to Vista, I imagine
the delay would be significantly more than 20 days........

MacinDoc
Feb 27, 2007, 12:35 AM
Don't you mean Leopard???
Oops, my bad, serves me right for posting after being up for 2 days straight.:o

Wild-Bill
Feb 27, 2007, 01:13 AM
If Apple were responsible for fixing bugs related to Vista, I imagine
the delay would be significantly more than 20 days........

:D QFT

paulyras
Feb 27, 2007, 01:17 AM
One thing I've seen no mention of is that March 20th is that magic Apple day of the week, Tuesday. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Apple have a long trackrecord of doing major product announcements on tuesdays?

Perhaps, just perhaps, there is more coming on the 20th than just appleTV and, of course iTunes 7.1? Now I'm intrigued

Sure would be nice of Steve to stuff a copy of 10.5 in there with the appleTV for the inconvenience. Not going to happen, but I'd take it none the less.

theheadguy
Feb 27, 2007, 01:23 AM
Which is more profitable for Motorolla: selling 600,000 units @ $99 or 150,000 units @ $499?
No offense but price points are not necessarily about what *you* can or cannot afford.
Capesh?

It's a little more complex than that, but thanks for playing.

okwhatev
Feb 27, 2007, 01:45 AM
The Apple TV should be priced around $129..... as a simple upgrade to the Airport Express. For video, it's not a replacement for your DVDs because it won't stream a 5.1 signal. This is absoutely insane. As for being a music streamer... the visual interface makes a lot of sense and is cool.... it just needs to be much cheaper.

GregA
Feb 27, 2007, 02:27 AM
I don't think this bodes well for other products (Leopard, updates to the mac line, etc). It's taking resources away from other stuff that they should focus on. I could not care less about :apple: tv until I get a new Mac Pro.Totally irrelevant IMO. The timetables will be reasonably unrelated - except for obvious things like new version of iTunes for Windows & Mac... then again, unless it does something significantly different (like stream DVDs) it would seem to be a minor change?!!

Why are people so stuck in the hard media paradigm? Instead of asking Apple to decide between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD I would rather see people asking them to make HD content available from iTunes. Making ? TV completely media dependent. In five years when the next leap is made in HD technology, the enduser will not have to add yet another player to their system, but instead just upload (if necessary) the proper patch to ?TV and then purchase the content from iTunes.I am glad the AppleTV doesn't have Blu/HD-DVD built in, but I think that having DVD would have resulted in many people throwing out their DVD players...

How am i going to watch my eyeTV recorded tv shows? Why can't I stream the massive amounts of video I have on my hard drive? Why can't I have a remote that I won't lose and with more functionality. Why is it freakin $300?

Wow. You're asking questions... but do you actually want answers!

DMann
Feb 27, 2007, 02:56 AM
The Apple TV should be priced around $129..... as a simple upgrade to the Airport Express. For video, it's not a replacement for your DVDs because it won't stream a 5.1 signal. This is absoutely insane. As for being a music streamer... the visual interface makes a lot of sense and is cool.... it just needs to be much cheaper.

Yes, this is true. However, it also sports a 1Ghz processor, a decent graphics card (nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 VRAM), 256 MB DDR2 400 Mhz RAM, and a 40G hard drive. All this for $300 is pretty reasonable. Plus 720p is amazing resolution, superior to 1080i in many ways.

stephenli
Feb 27, 2007, 03:40 AM
How am i going to watch my eyeTV recorded tv shows? Why can't I stream the massive amounts of video I have on my hard drive? Why can't I have a remote that I won't lose and with more functionality. Why is it freakin $300?

ur case is even better than me
ur eyeTV records could put inside iTunes by a single click for file conversion right?
I have much .rm files fm my friends, of which I still didn't figure out the way for easy conversion...
and...even..no iTunes store service for my country...

ppnkg
Feb 27, 2007, 04:33 AM
Yeah, don't panic guys, they're going to release everything together, appletv, leopard, ilfe etc and new macs...! buhhaaaahhaa!

farqueue
Feb 27, 2007, 04:35 AM
Now we're talkin'........ Add a slim Blu-Ray drive and we're
good to go....

No thx. HD-DVD

(HD DVD is the format porn industries are taking)

synth3tik
Feb 27, 2007, 04:42 AM
Wow, they really waited until the last minute trying to get that thing shipped out, I guess some positions may be opening at Apple soon.

But as everyone seems to agree. I would rather wait 2 weeks and get a wonderful product vs. not being able to fully enjoy a buggy product.

Seems like a hard decision for Apple to make, but that would make it better for the end user....AKA us.

Attonine
Feb 27, 2007, 05:19 AM
No thx. HD-DVD

(HD DVD is the format porn industries are taking)


According to a recent article I read (can't remember exactly where) the format chosen by the adult industry will not be a deciding factor in the HD-DVD/Blu-ray war. The reasoning, if I remember correctly, was that because of the innivative nature of the adult industry, most content is now delivered digitally, sales of adult movies on a physical disc are a tiny percentage of their on-line, digital sales. The author concluded that the consumer will ultimately have a player which can play both kinds of disc (I believe at least one has already been released) or the content providers will release dual format discs (as has already happened I believe - again) with Blu-ray on one side and HD-DVD on the other.


With regard to the :apple: TV, I believe the real handicap for it is the fact that content providers are not providing an easy solution for consumers to get their shop bought DVD or HD-DVD movies onto their computers. Reading through this thread, it is clear that many people just want a device which will allow their ripped DVDs to stream onto their TV. Something the :apple: TV will do easily. However, many, many people are not prepared to spend the time and effert to rip their DVD collection, and even more people (think of your parents maybe) do not even know how to rip DVDs, or that it is not as simple as ripping a CD into iTunes. As has been shown in many discussions about DRM and music, I think it's safe to say that most people still prefer to buy a physical disc, and that digital sales haven't had quite the impact that was expected, because of DRM. So whatever content is available via iTunes for :apple: TV, until content provider catch up and allow people to rip their DVDs to their computer, I think a large part of its potential market will not buy.

Evangelion
Feb 27, 2007, 05:29 AM
Why are people so stuck in the hard media paradigm? Instead of asking Apple to decide between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD I would rather see people asking them to make HD content available from iTunes.

And what about those DVD's people already own? "Well, you just re-buy them from iTunes".

netdog
Feb 27, 2007, 05:32 AM
I thought that there were warehouses already bulging with these things. Perhaps they are waiting for the Europ iTS movie rollout. God, let's hope so or they are going to sell about three of them in the UK, and those three people will be pissed when they find out that they can't buy anything but stupid music videos and Pixar shorts for their $300 box.

mrthieme
Feb 27, 2007, 05:53 AM
I thought that there were warehouses already bulging with these things. Perhaps they are waiting for the Europ iTS movie rollout. God, let's hope so or they are going to sell about three of them in the UK, and those three people will be pissed when they find out that they can't buy anything but stupid music videos and Pixar shorts for their $300 box.

I would have also thought that by this time the units had been manufactured and ready for shipment, it seems that a problem with existing units would put them back at square one in the process with a warehouse of unusable products. I would guess there is a shortage of units to meet demand, or that something related is not ready, such as the ITMS.

jane doe
Feb 27, 2007, 06:46 AM
Its fine with me since I wasn't planning on getting it until I got a new TV in april or may anyway.

I do with there were more movies on itunes and even some HD content. I think it kinda sucks to have an HDMI with no real need for it.

Maccus Aurelius
Feb 27, 2007, 07:09 AM
I'm not sold on the :apple: tv but I would have interest in the iphone if didnt cost so damn much. 500 beans is a joke for an ipod that has a phone.

The T-Mobile MDA costs $500. My coworker bought one of these but was unable to get the service subsidy (she was already on the T-mobile network)
It comes with a few MB as onboard storage and the software aint that great. I would hardly call WinMobile intuitive.

If you want to see an overpriced hunk o' junk, check out LG's Shine. This doodad has a 64MB flash drive with the option for expansion and a similar monochrome interface to the iPhone, and has a nice beefy pricetag of $700. The reason people say the iPhone is so expensive is because it has a higher profile than most other phones. But even with network subsidies flying around many people still have to pay full price for lots of these phones even if they were already part of the network. The RAZR cost $500 when it was new. It's the shoddiest piece of crap ever, but it sure looks svelt. The interface is terrible, and the hardware feels chintzy. Considering all these things, the iPhone doesn't look like a bad deal.

Lucy Brown
Feb 27, 2007, 07:33 AM
The Apple TV should be priced around $129..... as a simple upgrade to the Airport Express. For video, it's not a replacement for your DVDs because it won't stream a 5.1 signal. This is absoutely insane. As for being a music streamer... the visual interface makes a lot of sense and is cool.... it just needs to be much cheaper.

I agree. I dont know about price for parts but as far as function yeah 129 would be reasonable to me. I have a home theater. 42" widescreen with a very nice surround system. Why would I want to watch a $15 downloaded movie thats in 2.0 stereo. I still dont get it. What if I want to bring the movie over to a friends house or sell/trade it? I have no interest in a visual interface on my tv for my music. I hope who ever buys this thing is happy with it. I just dont get it. Even if they let you rent movies I think the price is still to high. Again no 5.1 surround, no hard copy. Yeah and if you can rip the download to a cd it's still not the same.

netdog
Feb 27, 2007, 07:36 AM
I find it bizarre that people want the disks. DVDs and CDs are just clutter...

What an antiquated way to house digital information.

Lucy Brown
Feb 27, 2007, 07:37 AM
The T-Mobile MDA costs $500. My coworker bought one of these but was unable to get the service subsidy (she was already on the T-mobile network)
It comes with a few MB as onboard storage and the software aint that great. I would hardly call WinMobile intuitive.

If you want to see an overpriced hunk o' junk, check out LG's Shine. This doodad has a 64MB flash drive with the option for expansion and a similar monochrome interface to the iPhone, and has a nice beefy pricetag of $700. The reason people say the iPhone is so expensive is because it has a higher profile than most other phones. But even with network subsidies flying around many people still have to pay full price for lots of these phones even if they were already part of the network. The RAZR cost $500 when it was new. It's the shoddiest piece of crap ever, but it sure looks svelt. The interface is terrible, and the hardware feels chintzy. Considering all these things, the iPhone doesn't look like a bad deal.

I'm not a big cell phone person. It would be a waste for me. I already have an ipod. I have no interest in watching movies on tiny screen. I wouldnt buy a any expensive smart phone. I just want to make a call once in a while. I must say the iphone does look cool. I like the touch screen though I can imagine wiping body oil and fingerprints off it constantly. My ipod is so scratched up it looks like it was made during the stone age.

Lucy Brown
Feb 27, 2007, 07:49 AM
I find it bizarre that people want the disks. DVDs and CDs are just clutter...

What an antiquated way to house digital information.

It's not bizzare it's a sure way of saving your investment. Like nobody has ever lost data off there cpu.

Roy Hobbs
Feb 27, 2007, 08:21 AM
It's not bizzare it's a sure way of saving your investment. Like nobody has ever lost data off there cpu.

BackUp your data and its not an issue

iSee
Feb 27, 2007, 08:30 AM
Wow, I never thought ThinkSecret would have a correct rumor again.

Say, is there a rumor scorecard for TS in the guides section? I saw one for some analyst, but I couldn't find one for TS.

mdelaney123
Feb 27, 2007, 08:43 AM
I find it bizarre that people want the disks. DVDs and CDs are just clutter...

What an antiquated way to house digital information.

I can sell a DVD or CD when I am done with it... I cannot sell a digital file.

whatever
Feb 27, 2007, 08:44 AM
And what about those DVD's people already own? "Well, you just re-buy them from iTunes".

Well there are two answers to this question.

Yes

and

No

The paradigm concerning new video formats that we have been living with from the start has been when a new format comes out, we re-buy the movies we like the most in the new format. This was true with old reel to reel movies (yes back in the day you could buy reel to reel movies), VHS, Laserdisc and DVD (this concept was pushed to the limit with all of the repackaging of movies that goes on, from the regular edition to the Directors Cut to the Special Edition to the 1 Year Anniversary Edition!).

And what does that mean, more junk for landfills.

I say the answer could be "no" also, because people could just use the available software that is out there and rip their DVDs themselves.

However, in the long run, buy becoming media/hardware dependent prevents the industry from forcing you to choose from two competing formats.

abrooks
Feb 27, 2007, 08:46 AM
It's not bizzare it's a sure way of saving your investment. Like nobody has ever lost data off there cpu.

And you've never scratched a disc?

Buschmaster
Feb 27, 2007, 09:52 AM
BackUp your data and its not an issue
Sorry, but I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you...

What the hell are you backing up your data on?

MrCrowbar
Feb 27, 2007, 09:53 AM
Well, hard drives die spontaneously. Sometimes you're lucky and SMART tells you it's dying, but sometimes they just won't work anymore. Then there are viruses. I once had one (back in the days when I used PCs for private stuff) that corrupted every file on my hard drive. It also contaminated the backup drive, so my backup drive was useless. Luckily, I burn the important stuff to optical media (CDs, DVDs nowadays) so they are "read only" when the backup is done. Important stuff is all my e-mails, address book, documents. Photos and music take a lot of space, they're burnt less frequently.

It's also a good idea to have 2 backup drives and alternate between the two. So when one backup drive dies, you still have the other one. Use Disk Utility to make a full backup of the Macintosh HD. It takes just 15 minutes to restore a system on a new hard drive.

whatever
Feb 27, 2007, 10:04 AM
Sorry, but I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you...

What the hell are you backing up your data on?

I don't know about the other guy, but I backup on my RAID.

The lifespan of CD-R is betweem 2 and 75 years (here are two two views: http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library/article.aspx?article=2131 and http://www.newsgarbage.com/story/207/ ), but by constantly upgrading harddisk systems, like we all do, I'm constantly refreshing my hard disk.

natejohnstone@g
Feb 27, 2007, 10:04 AM
Okay, here's a shot in the dark:
If you go to the Apple Store online right now and click on AppleTV, it says at the top "Select your AppleTV" just like it does with the MacBook, etc., but there is only 1 configuration to "select" on the page. Is this just bad grammar on the part of Apple or could it be that we'll see 2 or 3 Apple TV configurations come Mid-March???:D :D

ijimk
Feb 27, 2007, 10:13 AM
i think what you guys need to realize is it may not be delayed because of hardware issues on the itv per say but because of them getting HD ready content up and on itunes for the release. not to mention maybe another movie studio....

mrthieme
Feb 27, 2007, 10:20 AM
Okay, here's a shot in the dark:
If you go to the Apple Store online right now and click on AppleTV, it says at the top "Select your AppleTV" just like it does with the MacBook, etc., but there is only 1 configuration to "select" on the page. Is this just bad grammar on the part of Apple or could it be that we'll see 2 or 3 Apple TV configurations come Mid-March???:D :D

I noticed the same thing a while back but wrote it off. If there were more models planned so soon, I would hope all customers waiting for the original would be offered a chance to switch.

deputy_doofy
Feb 27, 2007, 10:27 AM
I didn't read all 8 pages here, but did you read http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/02/27/quick-take-when-did-apple-become-microsoft.aspx?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y&bounce=y ? This guy is way over-generalizing. Apple being a month late is not the same as Microsoft taking 5 years to release a "new" OS with everything taken out.

natejohnstone@g
Feb 27, 2007, 10:27 AM
I noticed the same thing a while back but wrote it off. If there were more models planned so soon, I would hope all customers waiting for the original would be offered a chance to switch.

Yea, they'd have to send all the pre-buyers an e-mail giving them an option to upgrade if they wish.

natejohnstone@g
Feb 27, 2007, 10:32 AM
The current AppleTV plus:
120GB HD
Blu-Ray Drive
Dual HDTV Tuners with recording (i.e. HD DVR)

This would be an HD Tivo plus a Blu-Ray player plus AppleTV.

I'd gladly pay $800 for this

In all likelyhood if AppleTV is successful I think we could see something like this next year.

ShotNiCam
Feb 27, 2007, 11:22 AM
Wild ideas in my head...

Would it be something if :apple: TV has a web browser? But then you would need some sort of keyboard to enter URL and such. Oh wait, how about sync'ing your bookmarks from your safari? Or how about a wireless keyboard? Hee..

This reminds me too much of WebTV.. but it would still be a good idea though since the :apple: TV itself will always be connected online and you happen to be sitting on a couch watching the TV (might as well surf the web as well if there is nothing good to watch.) :D

phillipjfry
Feb 27, 2007, 11:24 AM
I've learned from the Debian community that things released by a certain date is a death sentence. "It will be released when it is ready to be released" is the mantra I have learned to play in my head on command. Had Apple changed the release date to, say, six months from now instead of two/three weeks from now, that might be something to be mad about. Delays happen in the business world and I'm not too worried about it. It's a slow way to start off the new year in the Apple community, but things will pick up. You'll all see!! :)

Rychiar
Feb 27, 2007, 11:30 AM
without 1080p support and avi support does anyone even care? this thing is so useless:rolleyes:

Peace
Feb 27, 2007, 11:37 AM
without 1080p support and avi support does anyone even care? this thing is so useless:rolleyes:


.avi is yesterday.

Lucy Brown
Feb 27, 2007, 11:41 AM
And you've never scratched a disc?

I actually have never scratched a disk. I'm careful with them.

Ever have a corrupted file?

whatever
Feb 27, 2007, 11:52 AM
without 1080p support and avi support does anyone even care? this thing is so useless:rolleyes:

Apple never said it didn't support 1080p.

What they said was that they do support 720p.

Isn't this the same thing? No. If Apple said they supported 1080p, people would assume and demand that all of the content in the iTunes store be in 1080p.

patrick0brien
Feb 27, 2007, 12:07 PM
.avi is yesterday.

... and proprietary.

NightStorm
Feb 27, 2007, 12:10 PM
without 1080p support and avi support does anyone even care? this thing is so useless:rolleyes:

Thank you so very much for opening my eyes! If you didn't feel the need to voice your opinion about how this product isn't right for me, I would have never thought about it.

Oh wait, my DLP TV only outputs 720p. And so do a lot of the other televisions out there. Next...

job
Feb 27, 2007, 12:10 PM
The Apple TV should be priced around $129..... as a simple upgrade to the Airport Express. For video, it's not a replacement for your DVDs because it won't stream a 5.1 signal.

Do we have confirmation that it won't stream a 5.1 signal?

I'm pretty sure you can use Handbrake to rip DVDs and preserve the audio.

Maccus Aurelius
Feb 27, 2007, 12:12 PM
.avi support. pfffffff

I download lots of .avi files, but I convert them with VisualHub into mpeg-4 format so that I can watch it on my iPod. I couldn't care less about .avi or any other of those container files that I mostly see on Acquisition.

I'll bet people who are concerned about .avi are well aware of DVD and video conversion software. I have over 2 dozen DVD's ripped into H.264 format with HandBrake that I keep on my external HD and have on the iPod. You're not obligated to purchase iTunes movies, though I have purchased a couple and 3 seasons of 24 (it's cheaper than buying the DVD set in one lump sum, that's for sure)

People complain about the conversion time, but it takes about the same amount of time to actually download the movie from iTunes even with a good connection.

Peace
Feb 27, 2007, 12:13 PM
Do we have confirmation that it won't stream a 5.1 signal?

I'm pretty sure you can use Handbrake to rip DVDs and preserve the audio.

The :apple: TV has an optical digital Toslink output specifically for output of Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.That's what optical output is designed for.

If the movie/TV Show/Video has 5.1 audio it will play on any equipment that plays 5.1.

job
Feb 27, 2007, 12:14 PM
With regard to the :apple: TV, I believe the real handicap for it is the fact that content providers are not providing an easy solution for consumers to get their shop bought DVD or HD-DVD movies onto their computers.

I honestly don't think that Apple cares about store bought media any more.

If anything, :apple:TV promotes the use of the iTunes Store to purchase video and movies instead of going to a physical location to purchase the actual disc.

Apple's not going to provide a simple solution for consumers to rip DVDs. Apple would rather have those consumers purchase the films directly through the iTunes store.

And what about those DVD's people already own? "Well, you just re-buy them from iTunes".

If the iTunes Store offers the same movies but now in Hi-Def, I bet you could convince some people to purchase the same movies again for the uprated quality.

Why do you think some film studios are re-releasing BR and HD discs of previously released films?

This same "people won't buy what they already own argument" went out the window when DVDs were first introduced. People claimed that DVDs would fail to catch on because it would require some people to repurchase movies. In the end though, the consumers sucked it up and gave the movie studies some more of their hard cold cash.

And the same is going to happen if Apple starts to offer 720p downloads on iTunes. Those that are tech savvy will likely have waited for this and held off buying any movies from iTunes. But for Joe Smith and his family, they might eventually purchase movies that they may have already bought.

job
Feb 27, 2007, 12:21 PM
The :apple: TV has an optical digital Toslink output specifically for output of Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.That's what optical output is designed for.

If the movie/TV Show/Video has 5.1 audio it will play on any equipment that plays 5.1.

That's what I figured. I haven't purchased any movies from iTunes yet (only BCS Bowl games) but can someone check to see if the videos currently on iTunes have 5.1 audio?

I don't think Apple would offer streaming capabilities between your computer and TV and 5.1 audio and not have them work together.

Teddy's
Feb 27, 2007, 12:29 PM
without 1080p support and avi support does anyone even care? this thing is so useless:rolleyes:

Who cares if the CONTENT its 400 something p, 720p, 1080p... as long as it's ENTERTAINING!!!

God! CONTENT! That is what matters!

cbud
Feb 27, 2007, 12:31 PM
That's what I figured. I haven't purchased any movies from iTunes yet (only BCS Bowl games) but can someone check to see if the videos currently on iTunes have 5.1 audio?

I don't think Apple would offer streaming capabilities between your computer and TV and 5.1 audio and not have them work together.

They are just 2 channel AAC.

Manuel Moreno
Feb 27, 2007, 12:38 PM
a piece of device that don't give nothing new in the market is delayed and pre-announced by 7 months... i love :apple:

and that G5 3GHz by the end of 2005.

job
Feb 27, 2007, 12:42 PM
They are just 2 channel AAC.

I'd venture to guess then that when :apple:TV is released, the movies in iTunes will likewise be reworked to support the new capabilities offered by :apple:TV.

Apple cannot afford to not have the movies not support 5.1 audio, especially when they are trying to market this thing as the perfect companion to a decent home theater set-up. (Wow, I just used a lot of "nots" in that sentence. Hope it made sense! :D)

awal
Feb 27, 2007, 12:48 PM
I think Comcast is way on top when it comes to features and on demand selections. Pair that up with a Slingbox Pro and you have WAY more than you will ever get with an :apple: TV.

...

I really don't care about the TiVo or Comcast thing, I have comcast and I'm sure TiVo works nicely, but I had to put in a plug for Slingbox if you haven't ever paired it up with your DVR. Definitely worth the $179 (AV) - $225 (pro). Biggest downer... it doesn't work with PALM OS yet and no REAL zoom features.

What you don't seem to realize is that Comcast is about to start rolling out Tivo's software on their DVRs within the next month. They signed a deal in 2005, and it's taken a lot longer than they thought, but evidently they've been testing it since late last year.

Comcast On Demand + Tivo DVR means that I have no use for another marginal product such as :apple:TV.

OllyW
Feb 27, 2007, 12:53 PM
I'm pretty sure you can use Handbrake to rip DVDs and preserve the audio.

Handbrake only outputs stereo 2.0, though it accepts 5.1 as an audio source.

The :apple: TV has an optical digital Toslink output specifically for output of Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.That's what optical output is designed for.


Toslink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK) is just an optical digital connector, it wasn't specially designed for 5.1 output and has been around for over 20 years, long before any digital video was available.

fastdrive
Feb 27, 2007, 01:00 PM
It's funny to see how people have already deicded that the :apple: tv lose's to the Comcast PPV + Tivo combo. As far as I know both products are not out yet :)

Also I don't think that Apple would have given this products the ability to play 720p widrescreen if they did not have plans to include such material in their ITMS.

Once the :apple: tv is released I think we'll find HD 5.1 material become available on the ITMS. (atleast in the US)

Peace
Feb 27, 2007, 01:08 PM
Handbrake only outputs stereo 2.0, though it accepts 5.1 as an audio source.



Toslink (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOSLINK) is just an optical digital connector, it wasn't specially designed for 5.1 output and has been around for over 20 years, long before any digital video was available.

Sorry I was just using Toslink as an example of Optical Digital.

ALL HD content has DD 5.1 surround sound.It's the standard.

Done-on-a-Mac
Feb 27, 2007, 01:20 PM
This is mostly what I have seen listed throughout the forums extras that people want.

:apple: TV

Bigger Hard Drive
5.1 Surround Sound
TV Tuner Card
Movie Rentals - (iTunes)
More Studios - (iTunes)
1080p

iPhone

VoIP
Record Video
Larger Megapixel Camera - (camera would rotate to video conference or too view what you are recording.)
GPS
3G Network
Flash Card Expansion
Removable Battery
More Open About Portable Gaming

Anything else i missed?:D

The reason I believe they hold out on these features is not that they missed out an opportunity to take the lead or can't work out an agreement with other companies(Apple has more than enough money.). Apple has been know for their frequent hardware updates. But this applies to the computing world were updates happen many times a year. Media and mobile phones don't update as quickly.

Just look at how long CD's have been around(The 80's). DVD'S(Mid 90's). 5.1 Audio(Mid 90's). TV(720i as long as I've been around. I was born in 81.) We just now got Hi-Def Video's & TV's. Mobile phone networks have been either been CDMA or EDGE since I've had a mobile phone(Mid 90's). This type of hardware doesn't update as quickly as computer hardware due to cost(updating large number of cell towers) & acceptance by the consumer(I don't want to have to buy or convert the same video twice a year.) So Apple has to take a slower approach so to make it look like we are getting constant updates.

Apple has never truly been on the bleeding edge. They go with what has been tested and known to just work that is also in popular demand(motto "It Just Works."). That is also why the hardware is priced so high to begin with. As stated in an earlier post, when the price does come down we(the consumer) feel like we are getting a deal. When we are really buying a product at its face value.

So the reason for delay? Adding a last minute feature listed above or something completly different.

I'm not bashing Apple. This is a smart marketing.

- Scott

williedigital
Feb 27, 2007, 01:53 PM
handbrake can either downsample 5.1 ac3 to 2ch aac or preserve the original 5.1 ac3 in the avi container (you can't mux ac3 into the .mp4 container). The toslink can only export "standard" audio formats to audio equipment, so we're either going to have 5.1 using ac3 in the avi container (itv won't play avi?) or 5.1 aac in .mp4 that can't be reporoduced by the audio equipment, or 2ch aac in .mp4. Only those three formats could fly. So if you want 5.1, itv either has to play avi or somehow has to reincode the audio from 5.1aac to 5.1ac3 (i've never heard of anything that can do that).

JGowan
Feb 27, 2007, 01:57 PM
Who said there were kinks, bugs, revisions or other physical malfunctions/concerns? Maybe, just MAYBE there's been a lot of pre-orders and the delay is simply having more time to meet demand all at once.

JGowan
Feb 27, 2007, 02:01 PM
I don't think this bodes well for other products (Leopard, updates to the mac line, etc). It's taking resources away from other stuff that they should focus on. I could not care less about :apple: tv until I get a new Mac Pro.Apple has different departments & divisions, all with their own personel. The iPhone people do their thing and :apple: TV do their thing and the OS people do their thing. There are meetings/memos/emails to coordinate but personel resources aren't being removed from the other depts just because this new hardware needs a little more time.

And money. Yeah. Apple's got that resource covered, too.

Data
Feb 27, 2007, 02:11 PM
I find it bizarre that people want the disks. DVDs and CDs are just clutter...

What an antiquated way to house digital information.


Comes in very handy at the moment your hardrive dies on you, for reason one, and specially with music, the quality of a itms track is like 15% of the quality of a original cd, thats why maybe ;-).

AidenShaw
Feb 27, 2007, 02:45 PM
If the iTunes Store offers the same movies but now in Hi-Def, I bet you could convince some people to purchase the same movies again for the uprated quality.

They can put them in the same iTunes store location as all of the Apple Lossless music tracks. ;)

Even if Apple does sell "720p" shows, you can expect them to be so highly compressed that very few people would consider them to be HD.

Attonine
Feb 27, 2007, 02:47 PM
I honestly don't think that Apple cares about store bought media any more.

If anything, :apple:TV promotes the use of the iTunes Store to purchase video and movies instead of going to a physical location to purchase the actual disc.

Apple's not going to provide a simple solution for consumers to rip DVDs. Apple would rather have those consumers purchase the films directly through the iTunes store.

I am sure Apple want to promote the iTunes store, and that they will not provide a solution for ripping DVDs. My point was the fact that it is comparatively difficult to put your DVDs onto your computer may impact sales of :apple: TV somewhat. I do not see this as an Apple problem, but a content provider problem. I feel the content providers, i,e, the film studios are behind the curve here. They are yet to successfully deal with this movement towards storing your DVDs on your computer, in fact in the large part they are yet to successfully deal with delivering content to your computer at all. If it was possible to rip a DVD, like a CD, into your media library, I am sure that there would be many more sales of :apple: TV. As has been mentioned many times in many :apple: TV threads, content through the iTunes store is a problem for everyone outside of the US.

I think the idea of the :apple: TV is good. I see it as a kind of iPod for the TV. I have a use for it myself, but I know how to rip my DVDs and will spend time doing it. Other members of my family would also use the device, I can picture my parents now flicking through the menu when there's nothing on TV. However, they will have absolutely nothing to watch through it as they, like the majority of casual computer users, do not know how to rip DVDs, and are not prepared to spend the time doing it. Also, like many of their generation, they are not particularly confident using on-line stores. They have however, put 100s of CDs into iTunes and my father uses the iPod I bought him.

Whistleway
Feb 27, 2007, 03:18 PM
Who said there were kinks, bugs, revisions or other physical malfunctions/concerns? Maybe, just MAYBE there's been a lot of pre-orders and the delay is simply having more time to meet demand all at once.

yeah sure. remove your fanboy glasses and look at reality :)

whatever
Feb 27, 2007, 03:19 PM
They can put them in the same iTunes store location as all of the Apple Lossless music tracks. ;)

Even if Apple does sell "720p" shows, you can expect them to be so highly compressed that very few people would consider them to be HD.

How can you say that.

Apple today already offers "free" 1080p content. Where you might ask, look at the HD trailers on Apple.com. The quality of both 720p and 1080p there is excellent. The quality of those trailers played in full screen on my 30" ACD blows away watching a fullscreen DVD on the same system.

It seems that people forget that Apple was one of the first to offer 1080p content on the web (they may be the first) and they offer the most (granted that's based on nothing!). They are well aware of HD.

One of the complaints we've been hearing for years has been the lack of 5.1 support in Apple's DVD player, perhaps Leopard finally addresses this, which could explain the delay in TV.

pubwvj
Feb 27, 2007, 05:04 PM
Good that they are 'perfecting it' but so what. This is a ho-hum product. We have the Internet. We have computers, Mac's no less. TV is so yestercentury.

wethackrey
Feb 27, 2007, 05:56 PM
When I ordered an AppleTV on January 30th, the estimated ship date was shown as 2/28. That changed this morning to 3/20. I don't think that's all that unusual for a company launching an entirely new product in a new product category. The fact that the delay was announced as late as it was seems as if they ran into a manufacturing glitch. Personally I'd much rather they got it right the first time. If they have a problem, not shipping is a good thing. A three week delay isn't going to impact me in the least.

I don't think this will have ANY effect on any other product in Apple's product line, especially Leopard. I doubt the AppleTV product team even eats lunch in the same cafeteria as the Leopard product team. I can't imagine that an AppleTV delay is going to cause anyone at Apple to lose focus.

Avatar74
Feb 27, 2007, 06:53 PM
Good that they are 'perfecting it' but so what. This is a ho-hum product. We have the Internet. We have computers, Mac's no less. TV is so yestercentury.

Yeah. Why, when I can sit and stare at a 15 inch laptop screen with a pair of headphones, would I ever want to watch movies on this:

http://images.cinemalogue.com/d/673-1/HT_1012.jpg

So very yesteryear...

natejohnstone@g
Feb 27, 2007, 07:11 PM
.avi is yesterday.

It may be, but I still have 400GB worth of .avi files that don't play in Quicktime, so to me it's a big deal!

Philberttheduck
Feb 27, 2007, 09:05 PM
Bummed but like everyone says, I'd rather have a good and clean :apple: tv then a buggy one.

Til the 20th though!?

AidenShaw
Feb 27, 2007, 09:50 PM
http://images.cinemalogue.com/d/673-1/HT_1012.jpg

So very yesteryear...

Good picture of an antique CRT television. Is that in the 20th Century Museum?

DMann
Feb 27, 2007, 10:21 PM
How can you say that.

Apple today already offers "free" 1080p content. Where you might ask, look at the HD trailers on Apple.com. The quality of both 720p and 1080p there is excellent. The quality of those trailers played in full screen on my 30" ACD blows away watching a fullscreen DVD on the same system.

It seems that people forget that Apple was one of the first to offer 1080p content on the web (they may be the first) and they offer the most (granted that's based on nothing!). They are well aware of HD.

One of the complaints we've been hearing for years has been the lack of 5.1 support in Apple's DVD player, perhaps Leopard finally addresses this, which could explain the delay in ?TV.

True, if Apple can stream trailers via Quicktime at HD quality online, which are amazingly impressive, I can only imagine the content for :apple:TV having the same capability. 720p actually exceeds 1080i while the content is rendering. (in motion) I'm not concerned at all about the delay - unlike MS, Apple would rather have it ready for prime time before releasing it and having consumers deal with glitches.

Avatar74
Feb 27, 2007, 10:26 PM
Good picture of an antique CRT television. Is that in the 20th Century Museum?

That's a brand spanking new Trinitron XBR WEGA (2006) with an HDMI feed. Better color, clarity and contrast than a $7000 Sony SXRD XBR... and for 1/7th the price.

LCoS will catch up, but not for a few years.

Oh, and that picture isn't retouched. That actually is the display image in natural light.

DMann
Feb 27, 2007, 10:26 PM
How can you say that.

Apple today already offers "free" 1080p content. Where you might ask, look at the HD trailers on Apple.com. The quality of both 720p and 1080p there is excellent. The quality of those trailers played in full screen on my 30" ACD blows away watching a fullscreen DVD on the same system.

It seems that people forget that Apple was one of the first to offer 1080p content on the web (they may be the first) and they offer the most (granted that's based on nothing!). They are well aware of HD.

One of the complaints we've been hearing for years has been the lack of 5.1 support in Apple's DVD player, perhaps Leopard finally addresses this, which could explain the delay in ?TV.

True, 1080p is astounding in quality. I'm sure we'll have choices as to which format we want to load and buffer. It's gonna be fun to watch this
evolve.....

kcroy
Feb 27, 2007, 10:41 PM
Reading over some of the posts regarding the apple TV delay I am hoping Apple is indeed upgrading the device. Like earlier posts, with only partially intended silliness, the apple TV does beg for hard drive to record regular tv shows on and a DVD burner. That would be AWESOME.

I always hope for more, but I cannot help to think, well, hope really, that this apple TV may be the most underestimated gizmo in history. Could it be the hub that somehow uses LEPORAD to mirror our Macs onto our television? Some sort of iPhone connection. The iPhone capacitity just seems too small for everything mentioned in the keynote. Could Apple TV somehow stream content to our phones?

I know, I know...but when Apple's COO reiterated today that the iphone is a revolutionary product, well, that seems to suggest to me there is more...

Leopard myths abundant...but the iPhone, Apple TV, & Leopard...hmmmm what will the connectivity be?

I really can't wait.

kcroy
Feb 27, 2007, 10:43 PM
Yeah. Why, when I can sit and stare at a 15 inch laptop screen with a pair of headphones, would I ever want to watch movies on this:

http://images.cinemalogue.com/d/673-1/HT_1012.jpg

So very yesteryear...

I like that NAGEL hanging over the TV.

balamw
Feb 27, 2007, 10:49 PM
I like that NAGEL hanging over the TV.

How 1980s. :p

B

Avatar74
Feb 27, 2007, 11:22 PM
How 1980s. :p

B

You didn't happen to notice the print to the left of it, did you? :D

There's a third 80's reference in that pic, too, btw.

DMann
Feb 27, 2007, 11:29 PM
Reading over some of the posts regarding the apple TV delay I am hoping Apple is indeed upgrading the device. Like earlier posts, with only partially intended silliness, the apple TV does beg for hard drive to record regular tv shows on and a DVD burner. That would be AWESOME.

I always hope for more, but I cannot help to think, well, hope really, that this apple TV may be the most underestimated gizmo in history. Could it be the hub that somehow uses LEPORAD to mirror our Macs onto our television? Some sort of iPhone connection. The iPhone capacitity just seems too small for everything mentioned in the keynote. Could Apple TV somehow stream content to our phones?

I know, I know...but when Apple's COO reiterated today that the iphone is a revolutionary product, well, that seems to suggest to me there is more...

Leopard myths abundant...but the iPhone, Apple TV, & Leopard...hmmmm what will the connectivity be?

I really can't wait.

Let's just say, this will be the beginning of an extraordinary development of, and the true dawning of, The Digital Hub.

Peace
Feb 27, 2007, 11:53 PM
I suspect it has more to do with new versions of iTunes and Quicktime than anything else.

They are fixing the bugs.

Maccus Aurelius
Feb 28, 2007, 12:23 AM
Yeah. Why, when I can sit and stare at a 15 inch laptop screen with a pair of headphones, would I ever want to watch movies on this:

http://images.cinemalogue.com/d/673-1/HT_1012.jpg

So very yesteryear...

Is that a scene from Back to the Future?

Maccus Aurelius
Feb 28, 2007, 12:30 AM
It may be, but I still have 400GB worth of .avi files that don't play in Quicktime, so to me it's a big deal!

That's weird. I still have loads of .avi files that play just fine in Quicktime. I downloaded the DivX component and Flip4Mac so I can view any codec I like.

When I view .avi or .wmv files in iTunes the playback sucks. I'm wondering if this would also happen for the ATV. With the codec components downloaded QT player runs these videos smoothly, but in iTunes they play like crap.

localoid
Feb 28, 2007, 01:28 AM
A BusinessWeek article (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/feb2007/tc20070227_932458.htm) suggests the delay may be because "Apple has yet to receive approval for the device from the Federal Communications Commission" or perhaps due to "a component shortage."

Machead III
Feb 28, 2007, 02:08 AM
Do you think they'll pack in free copies of Duke Nukem Forever when it finally ships?

Evangelion
Feb 28, 2007, 02:21 AM
If the iTunes Store offers the same movies but now in Hi-Def, I bet you could convince some people to purchase the same movies again for the uprated quality.

Why do you think some film studios are re-releasing BR and HD discs of previously released films?

This same "people won't buy what they already own argument" went out the window when DVDs were first introduced. People claimed that DVDs would fail to catch on because it would require some people to repurchase movies. In the end though, the consumers sucked it up and gave the movie studies some more of their hard cold cash.

That's because people actually got more with DVD than with VHS. Not only was the picture-quality better, it was also more convenient and there were extras in the disc as well. Right now iTunes offers poorer picture (although that might change), poorer audio and no extras (or subtitles), for more or less the same amount of money. And if we move the comparison to HD-DVD and BD-DVD, then iTunes as a lot of catching up to do.

Then we have the question of selection. Right now movies are only available in USA, and the selection is very limited.

Evangelion
Feb 28, 2007, 02:27 AM
The paradigm concerning new video formats that we have been living with from the start has been when a new format comes out, we re-buy the movies we like the most in the new format.

But when the format changes, we actually get more than we did with the old format. What do we get with ITMS that we do not get with DVD's? I know what we get with DVD's though: Superior picture, superior audio, extras and subtitles.

Evangelion
Feb 28, 2007, 02:29 AM
I don't know about the other guy, but I backup on my RAID.

Repeat after me: RAID is not backup. RAID is fault-tolerant storage but it's not backup.

AidenShaw
Feb 28, 2007, 06:41 AM
There's a third 80's reference in that pic, too, btw.


The tacky white plastic power brick next to the center channel speaker?

AidenShaw
Feb 28, 2007, 06:48 AM
Repeat after me: RAID is not backup. RAID is fault-tolerant storage but it's not backup.

Perhaps, like me, he puts his backups on a RAID array, so that his backups won't be lost due to a single drive failure.

RAID is not backup, true. But, using RAID for your main drives does greatly reduce the risk of loss due to drive failure - which is certainly a major reason for backups. So, if you are only concerned about drive failures - RAID can be a reasonable replacement for backups.

If you're concerned about corruption, accidental (or purposeful) deletion, and some other issues - then you should have a backup strategy in addition to RAID.