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MacRumors
Jun 3, 2003, 05:06 PM
To add to the whirlwind of rumors... A Macintouch reader (http://www.macintouch.com/#iphone) claims to have seen an advertisement for an Apple/Sony-Ericcson phone in a "new" Mac Magazine called "iCreate" in the U.K.

According to the blurb, the full-page add depicts the device, and was "in a local newsagent" today.

This should be easily verifiable (or discounted) by our U.K. readers.

Update: Apparently, the "ad" is a concept design by the Magazine.



Tiauguinho
Jun 3, 2003, 05:07 PM
I just ordered a Sony Ericsson T610, im sure i will be pleased with it, even if Apple releases a "designed by apple" cell phone with SonyEricsson.

DreaminDirector
Jun 3, 2003, 05:10 PM
man, I hope this isnt true. I just hate thinking Apple will do a phone, then they wont. Damn, emotional rollercoaster....

DreaminDirector
Jun 3, 2003, 05:12 PM
Actually, I just read the blurb, and it sounds quite shady. I don't believe it.

hugemullens
Jun 3, 2003, 05:13 PM
an ad? if its true i hope somebody can post a copy of it. I'd love to see it.

Harry K.
Jun 3, 2003, 05:13 PM
Sound like it could be extremely cool.
I can just imagine the effect Apple could have on cellular phones.

But Steve Jobs has already told us that he's not going to do that.

TMA
Jun 3, 2003, 05:14 PM
I'm more interested in the fact that us UK'ers might be getting a new mac magazine - This would bring the total to a whopping 3? 4?

The best place here to get a copy of this magazine would be to visit a larger WH Smiths (city branch) or other big newsagent. I'm at work all day tomorrow so I can't get to one. I don't suppose anyone fancies going on a little shopping trip on behalf of all us Macrumors heads? ;)

arn
Jun 3, 2003, 05:17 PM
I don't actually believe it... but like I said... it should be verifiable.

arn

TMA
Jun 3, 2003, 05:19 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. Very Very skeptical on this one considering what SJ (apparantly) said last Friday:

"I get a lot of pressure to do a PDA. What people really seem to want to do with these is get the data out. We believe cell phones are going to carry this information. We didn't think we'd do well in the cell phone business. What we've done instead is we've written what we think is some of the best software in the world to start syncing information between devices. We believe that mode is what cell phones need to get to."

spazum64
Jun 3, 2003, 05:20 PM
The link mentioned, iPhone.org, does indeed point to Apple's website. As many will recall, people have in the past registered domains on the behalf of Apple, or rather the Apple rumor community (i.e. AppleUniversal.com).

But the interesting thing about this one is that if you do a "whois" lookup on iPhone.org, you'll see that the nameservers are NS1.APPLE.COM and NS2.APPLE.COM. For those of you unfamiliar with the workings of DNS, nameservers are queried to get the IP address that corresponds to a domain name. iPhone.org doesn't resolve to the exact same IP as apple.com, but it's clearly on an Apple server, as their FF.FF.00.00 subnet mask matches up. And if NS1 and NS2.APPLE.COM respond to DNS queries for iPhone.org, it must be a live record in Apple's DNS servers.

Conclusion: iPhone. Real. Soon (maybe).

noverflow
Jun 3, 2003, 05:21 PM
iphone.org points to apple...

i know that this is easy to do... but it was actually registered by apple when apple.com was last registered.

strange that apple would own a .org

iphone is owned by some weird company, so i would think that apple would choose an other name.

arn
Jun 3, 2003, 05:27 PM
Yes... it's been a long known fact that iPhone.org is owned by Apple.com.

Also interesting is that iPhone has been patented by Apple in many countries outside the US.

arn

Harry K.
Jun 3, 2003, 05:27 PM
Phoney? Perhaps...

An iChat intergrated phone or on the go?

We have the iPod for iTunes on the go.
Why not an iPhone for iChat on the go, providing that Apple releases their video phone software and develops it into a hardware device.

Nebrie
Jun 3, 2003, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by spazum64
The link mentioned, iPhone.org, does indeed point to Apple's website. As many will recall, people have in the past registered domains on the behalf of Apple, or rather the Apple rumor community (i.e. AppleUniversal.com).

But the interesting thing about this one is that if you do a "whois" lookup on iPhone.org, you'll see that the nameservers are NS1.APPLE.COM and NS2.APPLE.COM. For those of you unfamiliar with the workings of DNS, nameservers are queried to get the IP address that corresponds to a domain name. iPhone.org doesn't resolve to the exact same IP as apple.com, but it's clearly on an Apple server, as their FF.FF.00.00 subnet mask matches up. And if NS1 and NS2.APPLE.COM respond to DNS queries for iPhone.org, it must be a live record in Apple's DNS servers.

Conclusion: iPhone. Real. Soon (maybe).

It's been registered, pretty much forever. You can flip back 3-4 years and find people posting threads anticipating when iPhone.org and mammals.com will go live.

cc bcc
Jun 3, 2003, 05:28 PM
I can't find their website, does iCreate magazine even exist?

zygoat
Jun 3, 2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by noverflow
strange that apple would own a .org


Well, they've had mammals.org for quite awhile, too...

t3inity
Jun 3, 2003, 05:30 PM
Sorry everyone.

I am looking at the magazine at this moment (I don't actually have a mac yet - waiting on the 970 - but like to see what's going on). At the bottom it says:
"The iPhone, iControl, Bluetooth iPods and some other stuff don't exist, we made them up. But we want them. Bad...."

iCreate seems like quite a good magazine, by the way, although insofar as they've covered iLife, Safari, iCal, Mail, Photoshop Elements, iTunes (etc.) in issue one, I'm intrigued to see what's left for issue two.

Bad luck anyway...

TMA
Jun 3, 2003, 05:32 PM
Well I did a google for iCreate Magazine on both google.com and google.co.uk and nothing turned up. I also tried www.icreate.co.uk but only got a place holder (registered in the UK it seems - Perhaps someone could dig a little deeper into that?) Finally I tried a search at www.whsmith.co.uk for magazines including keywords "iCreate" and "mac" which strangely turned up nothing at all (not even MacUser or Macformat)

It's looking likely to me that this magazine isn't even real.

Edit : Started this post before I noticed the one above.

nighttraitor
Jun 3, 2003, 05:33 PM
never mind

Ian Wales
Jun 3, 2003, 05:35 PM
Sorry to dissapoint you guys but the iphone most certainly does not exist. I have had this magazine for over a week now and on the bottom of the add it clearly states "The iphone, icontrol,bluetooth ipods and some other stuff dont exist, we made them up but we want them. Bad. The web site www.iphone.org does exist, though, and it takes you to the apple site, so fingers crossed!". Looks quite a good mock up though, I'll try and get a picture of it for tommorow.

evilfunkgenius
Jun 3, 2003, 05:43 PM
would someone please just post a scan of the ad?

buseman
Jun 3, 2003, 05:46 PM
Stupid thread.

Steve said three days ago they had no plans to enter the phone marked. They do invest a lot in R&D but 3 days is even too fast for Apple.:D (although not much time seems to be spent on quality assurance these days, but thats another issue :p )

Ian Wales
Jun 3, 2003, 05:52 PM
Here are a couple of pictures of the add.

Ian Wales
Jun 3, 2003, 05:54 PM
Second picture!

t3inity
Jun 3, 2003, 05:55 PM
TMA

It's strange that a WH Smith search turned up nowt - that's where I got it (the magazine).

It's published by 'Paragon Publishing' should you want to know. Nice quality and the authors are clearly in luuurve with the Mac-form as they've splattered numerous gratuitous 'iCandy' shots (of various hardware) all over the place.

Half expecting to see one of an iMac draped suggestively in a feather boa (while looking back coquettishly over its base) or somesuch, to be honest.

Although now that image has lodged itself in my mind, I REALLY wish I hadn't been...

t3inity

"The hunchback will have something to say about this..."

TMA
Jun 3, 2003, 06:01 PM
Thanks for the pictures Ian :) That mock up might look ok if it didn't have that huge 'wheel' stuck in the middle. But I think if Apple did ever decide to release an 'iPhone' years in the future, it would look stunning.

As for the WH Smith search - You would think that with the technology that's available they would tie in there search system with their entire product database, not just online products (which seem to be limited) Oh well. I'll have to check out this magazine when i'm next in Nottingham - gratuitous 'iCandy' shots = Mac Porn! Weeeeeeee! :)

cubist
Jun 3, 2003, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by TMA
Thanks for the pictures Ian :) That mock up might look ok if it didn't have that huge 'wheel' stuck in the middle.

It looks exactly like a T610 with that "wheel" plastered atop the joystick.

Ugg
Jun 3, 2003, 07:17 PM
Why would Apple want to reinvent the wheel? Especially now that Nokia, Ericcson and Motorola are all projecting lower profits.

It would make perfect sense for them to connect with one of the manufacturers and say, "we want an apple branded phone" Knowing as they do the phenomenal brand loyalty amongst apple users I'm sure they would jump all over it. Apple gets its name on the phone, it can interract with all appropriate Mac applications, and the manf. gets to sell more phones while apple has one more reason to say, hey switch to a mac and you can buy this cool phone too. This way there is little or no risk to Apple.

I think it's real and it's only time before other computer makers jump on the same bandwagon. The mobile phone is no longer just a phone, it can be a PDA, a camera, file storage, etc. It plays perfectly into Apple's desire to create a digital hub.

awinn233
Jun 3, 2003, 07:39 PM
Nice pics! Wish they were real!

MrMacMan
Jun 3, 2003, 07:45 PM
Those look NICE, if they were real I would buy in a SECOND, damn that looks NICE.

bennetsaysargh
Jun 3, 2003, 08:26 PM
now that is an iPhone! too bad it won't happen:(

macphisto
Jun 3, 2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by cubist
It looks exactly like a T610 with that "wheel" plastered atop the joystick.

My sentiments exactly, head on over to http://www.sonyericsson.com/ for a gander of the T610. In fact to save you the extra click here is the t610 in the flesh,...or plastic.

It is a nice phone though, I would be one in an instant or two.

mcl
Jun 3, 2003, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by macphisto
My sentiments exactly, head on over to http://www.sonyericsson.com/ for a gander of the T610. In fact to save you the extra click here is the t610 in the flesh,...or plastic.

It is a nice phone though, I would be one in an instant or two.

The T610's been recalled (http://mobile.burn.com/news.jsp?Id=339) .

AndrewMT
Jun 4, 2003, 01:29 AM
Why don't they put pop out keyboards on these phones? Once the keyboard pops out from a slot on the right side, the phones screen could change orientation. You need a keyboard if you seriously want to you messaging, aim, web browsing, and e-mail. Take a clue from the sidekick and get a keyboard!

Why couldn't this be an Apple phone? If they are working with Sony Erriccson, the phone would have the SE logo at the bottom and have similar features as other SE phones.

mproud
Jun 4, 2003, 01:56 AM
What people seem forget when trying to make up a pretend Apple device is that they mock the Aqua GUI way too much.

Apple is very picky - a purist and total control freak, as evidenced by its return from computer licensing, its continual abandonment of old technology and adoption of new ones, Apple Stores, and leaving of MWNY. They want to control every aspect and make the Macintosh a truly unique and rich experience.

So a quick Q and A:
Apple will not rip off the Aqua scheme for any smaller devices because it would:

a) Probably not emulate every aspect of the OS on the new device

b) Not clearly identify the differences between the two devices

c) Confuse users in the experience

d) Distract users in the original purpose and context of the device


And the answer is...

All of the above!

Apple will not take something they already have and apply it to a completely different project to be done way poorly. Apple is not that kind of company.

You will not see Apple put Aqua on another device, or anything that even REMOTELY looks like Aqua unless Apple first decides Aqua is dead on Mac OS X, and even then, Apple will probably find some better thing to do by that point.


However, one thing Apple may copy (as they currently do) is the general style of the product (i.e. the white/opaqueness of the iMac attributed to the iPod). This gives the device a nice welcome and family feel to existing products of these qualities, and calls out hey, I work with other things that look like me! So consumers will be able to (hopefully) associate quality products by their style, and take comfort in their synthesis.

THIS is what Apple is.


* Copy hardware style? Probably.
* Copy the user interface? Hell no.

nichrome
Jun 4, 2003, 02:26 AM
Originally posted by mproud
They want to control every aspect and make the Macintosh a truly unique and rich experience.
They want to make money.

yossele
Jun 4, 2003, 04:22 AM
Ian did you try to call the magazine editors? do you have there number, or email?

notmatt
Jun 4, 2003, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by nichrome
They want to make money.

That's why they're a for-profit corporation. Why do people constantly act so shocked and apalled that such entities want to make money? If you really object to making money, there are alternatives (http://www.gnu.org).

Quark
Jun 4, 2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by mproud
...You will not see Apple put Aqua on another device, or anything that even REMOTELY looks like Aqua unless Apple first decides Aqua is dead on Mac OS X, and even then, Apple will probably find some better thing to do by that point....

THIS is what Apple is.


* Copy hardware style? Probably.
* Copy the user interface? Hell no.

Uhmmm, you are very, very wrong on this.

I especially don't like the way you make it sound so matter-of-fact like.

Apple has already done this.

Has anyone here been to a physical Apple store and made a purchase with a Credit Card?

There is a device that has an Aqua interface where you sign for your credit card. It looks like a Verifone product, and might well be, but the point is that Apple put the Aqua interface on it.

So your point has no basis in fact.

Sorry about the tone:(, but this is the fact.

Quark

JtheLemur
Jun 4, 2003, 09:04 AM
I have a T610 and it kicks booty. And NO, they have NOT been recalled - the first batch have a hissing problem, it sounds sort of like light static in the background when you're talking to someone. Not horrible, but can be slightly annoying. Every batch after that is fine, and those with phones from the first batch can voluntarily send theirs in for a fix. (actually a source tells me they do a 1-for-1 swap with a new unit.) Poeple in the US with hissing ones will be able to send theirs in to SonyE US for the fix within two weeks. =D

TreeTruckie
Jun 4, 2003, 09:31 AM
Does anyone know of any wireless carriers in Chicago who offer the T610? I've checked all of the carriers I'm aware of, and haven't been able to find this phone locally.

macnews
Jun 4, 2003, 09:50 AM
I would buy an iphone like the one pictured. I have a hard time believing Apple will not make a PDA or cell phone. I know SJ has said no several times but then there is the newton and the whole digital hub strategy. Even the new iPods have a PDAish feel to them IMHO. Cell phone and PDAs are part of many people's current digital hub. I would hope what Apple would come out with would be something better and different. The phones (like the T610 mentioned) and PDAs (Palm zire71) do their respective main job well but suck at the rest of the digital hub aspect (taking pictures, email, general user interface).

I think it will be a few more years before you see an Apple PDA and or cell phone. The post about an Apple branded phone is a good idea and could help bring in additional revenue. A true Apple made product like this though be a while. After all, how long has iphone.org pointed to apple.com?

AndrewMT
Jun 4, 2003, 10:00 AM
What wireless plans can you get with the 610? Unlimited data?

evoluzione
Jun 4, 2003, 10:02 AM
Yeah, it looks just like an retouched T610. By the way, they're awesome, I was in Apple Soho the other day when one of the geniuses started oohing and ahhing over it, before the new iSync and BT upgrades came out, it worked flawlessly with both. as far as getting hold of one in the States, not for a few months yet, unless you buy it overseas, as I did.


Anyways, I was thinking yesterday, with this new QT6.3 and the 3gpp component, that the yet to be released SonyEricsson Z1010 will utilise this, (fyi, that phone has 2, yes two, cameras, one for taking snaps, and one facing you for videoconferencing) Maybe it's an iChat plan??????? iChat videoconferencing on your cellphone. This would make a lot of sense I reckon, and would fill in some gaps re: iChat video icons or whatever were spotted

JtheLemur
Jun 4, 2003, 12:43 PM
To the above people asking where to get a T610 - nowhere. No carriers sell it yet. T-Mobile will be carrying it soon, but not until at least the end of July. But as long as you have GSM service in your area (T-Mo, Cingular, some AT&T) you can just pop your SIM card in the T610 and it'll work. Just make sure to enter your GRPS settings correctly (if you have a data plan).

Places to get it:

www.gsmphonesource.com (recommended)
www.mobilefly.com
www.just-talk.com
www.allglobaltk.com

It's a really great little gadget. Prices will go down during this month, they're still high for the early suckers. Oops, I mean.... suckers. Like me.

JtheLemur
Jun 4, 2003, 12:44 PM
Macnews - the interface on the T610 is actually really great. You can take a picture and have it e-mailed with like, three button presses. The interface uses a lot of graphics, there's Info entries for 80% of the menu options, and so forth. A real nice change from somewhat cryptic phone interfaces *cough* Motorola *cough*.

bennetsaysargh
Jun 4, 2003, 02:58 PM
apple didn't copy the GUI for the iPod, so why would they do this for a phone? they don't won't do that. never. the case yes, most likely, but still, the software won't be the same. another GUI wold be used in any new devices.

Frozone
Jun 4, 2003, 09:15 PM
Down at the bottom of the Phone it says something that looks sorta like Sony Ericson but I couldn't quite make it out. Could this be a Phone not 'made' by Apple but still made 'for' Apple?

mproud
Jun 4, 2003, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Quark
Uhmmm, you are very, very wrong on this.

I especially don't like the way you make it sound so matter-of-fact like.

Apple has already done this.

Has anyone here been to a physical Apple store and made a purchase with a Credit Card?

There is a device that has an Aqua interface where you sign for your credit card. It looks like a Verifone product, and might well be, but the point is that Apple put the Aqua interface on it.

So your point has no basis in fact.

Sorry about the tone:(, but this is the fact.

Quark

Interesting. That's pretty cool. I didn't know about that.

But you're losing focus. I'm talking about consumer products. No consumer products will have ripoffs of Aqua. If the iPod goes color one day, for example, it just won't sport Aqua. Maybe it'll sport Crimson or Jade or Obsidian (playing along), but Apple will not poorly copy a design like that onto a totally different device that's used for totally different things.

So, seeing an Aqua scheme with similar icons, etc., on a device like the one of the ad, it should be a dead giveaway, to begin with, that the product is fake.

It's one of those things where the parody of what 'has come' is way cooler or more fun than 'what's to come', just because the real one is too practical. (Does this make sense? I'm not trying to flame people for these ads - I think they're cool too - I'm just saying it's not realistic because reality is not always as cool.)

loneAzdgari
Jun 5, 2003, 10:57 AM
I have this magazine. IT IS NOT REAL. If you look above those images it says "What would happen if Apple released........"

Sorry to disappoint you lot!!!

BTW iCreate doesnt have a website yet, its UK based only

mrjamin
Jun 5, 2003, 08:02 PM
The thing that's concerning me is that they're asking for a bluetooth iPod - that'd be a stupid idea!! SOOOOOOOOO DAMN SLOW! bluetooth runs at, what, 10mbit/s? it'd take several hours to copy over a decent sized collection - harldy comparable to the firewire/USB2 they use at present. bluetooth iPod is a stupid idea.

bennetsaysargh
Jun 5, 2003, 08:24 PM
i thikn it would be an OK idea to put BT in the iPods because some people just want to sync calanders adress books and maybe text notes or whatever. not for music though.

Quark
Jun 5, 2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by mproud
...But you're losing focus. I'm talking about consumer products....

Ahh. I see, sorry about that.

I understand your point. I just got side tracked by "...You will not see Apple put Aqua on another device, or anything that even REMOTELY looks like Aqua..."

In looking at the interface of the credit card machine (for lack of better description), I think that they can easily put an Aqua style interface onto a consumer device without losing sight of the device's purpose. As long as they keep it to the point of the device and put in their wonderful ease-of-use style, it is very possible.

MProud, we'll have to agree to disagree on the consumer interface.

The interface for the iPod was not written by Apple, but it is being built for Apple and you won't see it on other MP3 devices for a short time to come because of the agreement that they signed with Apple. I think it was a two year deal... or something like that.

Take care,
Quark

potterfast
Jun 6, 2003, 10:25 AM
Ever think that apples MPEG-4 from Quicktime 6.2 which can create cell phone content is at the heart of all this?

bennetsaysargh
Jun 6, 2003, 03:09 PM
isn't QT 6.3 the one that has the cell phone stuff?

potterfast
Jun 6, 2003, 04:09 PM
yes...just typing blind...

caveman_uk
Jun 7, 2003, 01:38 PM
I got iCreate and it's a really nice mag. They are obviously complete mac-heads - they have a section called 'iWant' featuring the 17"PB. They even have a gratuitous 'iCandy' section with pics of macs . It's 6 a go (which is $10) but that's about the same as the other mags here and this one is really high quality and packed with info...It has only 12 pages of ads in a 131 page magazine. The printing standard is also really high on good paper.... Can you tell I'm impressed?

P.S. Let me say it one more time - the phone is a mock-up.

gopher
Jun 7, 2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by mproud
What people seem forget when trying to make up a pretend Apple device is that they mock the Aqua GUI way too much.

Apple is very picky - a purist and total control freak, as evidenced by its return from computer licensing, its continual abandonment of old technology and adoption of new ones, Apple Stores, and leaving of MWNY. They want to control every aspect and make the Macintosh a truly unique and rich experience.

So a quick Q and A:
Apple will not rip off the Aqua scheme for any smaller devices because it would:

a) Probably not emulate every aspect of the OS on the new device

b) Not clearly identify the differences between the two devices

c) Confuse users in the experience

d) Distract users in the original purpose and context of the device


And the answer is...

All of the above!

Apple will not take something they already have and apply it to a completely different project to be done way poorly. Apple is not that kind of company.

You will not see Apple put Aqua on another device, or anything that even REMOTELY looks like Aqua unless Apple first decides Aqua is dead on Mac OS X, and even then, Apple will probably find some better thing to do by that point.


However, one thing Apple may copy (as they currently do) is the general style of the product (i.e. the white/opaqueness of the iMac attributed to the iPod). This gives the device a nice welcome and family feel to existing products of these qualities, and calls out hey, I work with other things that look like me! So consumers will be able to (hopefully) associate quality products by their style, and take comfort in their synthesis.

THIS is what Apple is.


* Copy hardware style? Probably.
* Copy the user interface? Hell no.

Apple has made a limited Aqua interface for its credit card machines in the Apple retail stores.

tychay
Jun 8, 2003, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Quark
In looking at the interface of the credit card machine (for lack of better description), I think that they can easily put an Aqua style interface onto a consumer device without losing sight of the device's purpose. As long as they keep it to the point of the device and put in their wonderful ease-of-use style, it is very possible.

A little bit off-topic. Doesn't the interface of their point of sale machine drive you nuts? It bothers me that the submit button is blue (like that is a default option???), doesn't pulse and gives no visual feedback when you hit it. I keep thinking "Aqua but not quite...". Also, on one occasion the LaserPrinter on the front wasn't working and it took about five minutes for them to print out a receipt (in the back).

Re: iPod designed by someone else. I think you are referring to this article (http://www.designchain.com/coverstory.asp?issue=summer02). According to the article, the reference platform (basic hardware such as the CPU, encoder/decoder, etc) was not Apple's. However the packaging, interface (wheel), integration, and the user interface was Apple's doing. I assume they'll be taking it with them if they don't resign a deal with PortalPlayer.

It was an amazing compromise to get the product out the door cheap enough and quick enough without sacrificing quality. Definitely not the Apple of the early 90's. That's important because relative to their competition, they have much less money to spend on R&D now.

I suspect that this "design chain" article is why people like Michael Dell think they can put out a knock-off and undercut Apple's marketshare. They just might, but there were walkmen after the Walkman and discmen after the Discman, and our mindshare is still with Sony a quarter century (or decade) later.

Take care,

iolaire
Jun 12, 2003, 03:58 AM
I found iCreate in my local newsagents and swithered about the cover price 6.00, but the quality, layout and lack of ads convinced me to give issue one a go. It looks a promising magazine.

The iPhone ad at the back had me going for a moment, but the small print does explain - very witty and well accomplished.

yossele
Jun 12, 2003, 05:20 AM
It's a stupid magazine, I'm not sure they even ussing or know what mac is all about, the 17"PB they call Titanium, and there are a LOT of stupid comments on mac. this issue was my first and last!

bennetsaysargh
Jun 12, 2003, 05:34 PM
i hope your not gonna read that magazine again just because of the powerbook thing.:rolleyes:
can you give some examples of the stupid comments?

Wardofsky
Jun 13, 2003, 02:29 AM
It seems strange that everyone the makes an iPhone or an iTablet they always put an OS X GUI on (DOck, menu bar, etc.) when, from a design POV, it would just not work.

Apple would re-design it (make a new OS entirely) for it to really work on a PDA or phone.