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MacRumors
Mar 6, 2007, 11:26 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Following an examination of iTunes 7.1 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/05/itunes-7-1-apple-tv-support-and-quicktime-7-1-5/), some have found hidden gems in the software that indicate or otherwise confirm earlier suspicions about where Apple is heading.

International Movies
iLounge took an in-depth look (http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/instant-expert-secrets-features-of-itunes-71/) at the release, and found support for ratings tags for Australia, Canada, Ireland, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom in addition to the United States for movies and TV shows (when applicable). This find could serve as additional fuel for previous rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/30/itunes-videos-coming-to-europe-spring-2007/) that cited Spring 2007 as the launch for the expansion of iTunes in Europe beyond music.

Apple TV Games
More than two dozen text strings (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3415923&postcount=130) hidden in iTunes 7.1 related to game management with the Apple TV have been found and reported by various sites. The strings, such as "Are you sure you want to sync games? All existing games on the Apple TV XXX will be replaced with games from this iTunes library." and "Some of the games in your iTunes library were not copied to the Apple TV XXX because they cannot be played on this Apple TV."are further confirmation of comments (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/08/apple-tv-a-gaming-platform/) by PopCap VP Greg Canessa indicating that the Apple TV would indeed support games.

Rumors regarding Apple's interest in the gaming market received a kick-start in December when Prudential analyst Jesse Tortora released a research note (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/12/05/apple-video-game-console/) stating that he believed Apple would have to offer some sort of console gaming device in order to compete against offerings from Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo.



RichCoder
Mar 6, 2007, 11:28 AM
Will Apple TV have 3D hardware?

gkarris
Mar 6, 2007, 11:29 AM
What kind of gamepads (other than USB)?

Will it have Bluetooth like PS3?

This is sort of a given - same type of games as on Tivo...

Jesus
Mar 6, 2007, 11:29 AM
As a UK citizen and a soon to be  TV owner, this is absolutley brilliant!!! International movies can only be good, and the thought of anything in addition to the current feature set of the TV gives me a warm, tingly sensation.

gkarris
Mar 6, 2007, 11:30 AM
Will Apple TV have 3D hardware?

Retro gaming is becoming popular - nothing really past DOOM...

Bring on the Atari and Williams Classics!!!

koobcamuk
Mar 6, 2007, 11:31 AM
As a UK citizen and a soon to be Apple TV owner, this is absolutley brilliant!!!

About time. Although I am not buying an ?TV.

mattscott306
Mar 6, 2007, 11:31 AM
Apple + Game console = Happy Matt.

koobcamuk
Mar 6, 2007, 11:32 AM
Retro gaming is becoming popular - nothing really past DOOM...

Bring on the Atari and Williams Classics!!!

Sonic. Get sonic on there and I will buy it. In fact, don't bother I am getting my megadrive (genesis) out of the box again... :D

wrldwzrd89
Mar 6, 2007, 11:32 AM
I like this news, despite not being interested in an :apple:TV at this time. I think it's great because it further expands the already growing Apple/Mac games market. Also, having lived in the UK before, I fully support the addition of international movies to the iTunes Store :D

kerio
Mar 6, 2007, 11:33 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple TV Games
AppleInsider found more than two dozen text strings (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2549) hidden in iTunes 7.1 related to game management with the Apple TV.


I'm sorry about that because I found that strings yesterday and posted here on MacRumors (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3415923&postcount=130).

matticus008
Mar 6, 2007, 11:33 AM
Will Apple TV have 3D hardware?
It does, but not on the scale of a modern gaming console, unless they've seriously been holding back on the feature statements (and found a magical way to cool the thing). I wouldn't count on any shooters or lifelike flight simulators, though.

RichCoder
Mar 6, 2007, 11:34 AM
Retro gaming is becoming popular - nothing really past DOOM...

Bring on the Atari and Williams Classics!!!

I agree totally. They need a 2 joystick gamepad for Robotron! :)

But if they have 3D hardware(only to the level of gamecube) it would open up all sorts of fun games. Anyone play MonkeyBall?

-rich

ampd
Mar 6, 2007, 11:38 AM
I'm not surprised that Apple would want to add the ability for the :apple:TV to play games but I do not believe that doing so will come close to competing with Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft. From what I imagine, the games on the :apple:TV will just be the iPod games offered, the only difference being you can play them on your TV also.

roland.g
Mar 6, 2007, 11:38 AM
Any gaming on the :apple:tv will be of the Tertris and Pac-Man varieties. Maybe some Missle Command and other Atari type games. An afterthought like the video iPod. It won't be Wii or PS or XBox level gaming. Sorry Hardcore Complaymers.

Much Ado
Mar 6, 2007, 11:40 AM
Don't :apple: hold the patent that controls downloadable media from the internet now?

If they bother to ever enforce it, the :apple:TV could be massive in a few years, and these could be the first steps of its expansion.

Correct me on the patent thing if i'm wrong, but i remember being shocked at how a company could hold such a valuable patent at the time.

MA.

longofest
Mar 6, 2007, 11:41 AM
I'm sorry about that because I found that strings yesterday and posted here on MacRumors (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3415923&postcount=130).

Those kind of things would be great to bring to editorial attention using the submission form (http://www.macrumors.com/site.php?mode=submit).

natejohnstone@g
Mar 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
I'm sure it wont' be the current AppleTV, but Apple does NEED a gaming console. It fits EXACTLY into thier marketshare demographic! Neilson just did a study showing that console-owning households is on the rise, Apple could capitalize on that.
Now, some will argue that Apple owners are not "hard core gamers," (which I find a bit offensive...), but the argued the same thing when the predicted the Nintendo Wii would fail--and that is a phenomenal success.
All they need is a proper platform by which the can play the Apple computer games on the TV through AppleTV and they'd have thier "console," if they wanted to add proprietary games later they could.

abrooks
Mar 6, 2007, 11:42 AM
I'm sorry about that because I found that strings yesterday and posted here on MacRumors (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3415923&postcount=130).

Now, now ladies, lets be fair. These guys (http://www.fscklog.com/2007/03/kurzer_blick_au.html) had it first. But I'm in agreement that AppleInsider should credit such stories.

Yvan256
Mar 6, 2007, 11:50 AM
Will Apple TV have 3D hardware?

Haven't you seen the :apple:TV in the keynotes? That thing can do 3D in 720p.

One rumor about specs also said the :apple:TV had a "nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 video memory (essentially the GeForce Go 7400)" GPU. More than enough for 3D games, possibly even games from about 3-4 years ago.

The limiting factor will be the controller, which will only allow up/down/left/right + 1 button (since "menu" is reserved to go back to the menu). Unless they plan on having USB gamepads compatibility? Apple-branded USB gamepad anyone?

kerio
Mar 6, 2007, 11:51 AM
Now, now ladies, lets be fair. These guys (http://www.fscklog.com/2007/03/kurzer_blick_au.html) had it first. But I'm in agreement that AppleInsider should credit such stories.

I'm not saying "i was the first to discover blah blah blah". :)

But it's sad that after we talked about AppleTV Gaming in these forums yesterday it's now reported as an Appleinsider scoop. ;)

A is jump
Mar 6, 2007, 11:51 AM
Retro gaming is becoming popular - nothing really past DOOM...

Bring on the Atari and Williams Classics!!!

OMG... The Graphics on Ataris were terrible! I would never have fun on an :apple:tv if the graphics were'nt top of the line :rolleyes:

RichCoder
Mar 6, 2007, 11:55 AM
Haven't you seen the :apple:TV in the keynotes? That thing can do 3D in 720p.

One rumor about specs also said the :apple:TV had a "nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 video memory (essentially the GeForce Go 7400)" GPU. More than enough for 3D games, possibly even games from about 3-4 years ago.

No, I didn't see the keynote. Thanks for the info. the 7400 isn't bad. Somewhere in between last generation and next generation consoles.

-rich

EDIT: Just found this http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2395

KingofAwesome
Mar 6, 2007, 12:00 PM
OMG... The Graphics on Ataris were terrible! I would never have fun on an :apple:tv if the graphics were'nt top of the line :rolleyes:

Well, they weren't great graphics, but the games were still fun. At risk of sounding like an old man, I'd take a few rounds of low-rez Galaga over the shiniest, three-dimensioniest, 720p-iest mahjong any day.

Yvan256
Mar 6, 2007, 12:04 PM
No, I didn't see the keynote. Thanks for the info. the 7400 isn't bad. Somewhere in between last generation and next generation consoles.

Keep in mind, I was only mentioning the fact that the :apple:TV interface is in 3D (similar to Front Row and CoverFlow in iTunes). Also, the GPU I mentionned is only a rumor, I don't know if it's true.

However, I'd guess that :apple:TV runs OS X and uses CoreImage, CoreVideo and CoreAnimation, so a good GPU is required.

syklee26
Mar 6, 2007, 12:04 PM
if Apple remote can be revamped to be like Wii remote, I will be sold.

J Radical
Mar 6, 2007, 12:16 PM
Anyone expecting :apple:TV games any more sophisticated than pac man is probably going to be disappointed.

The hardware just isn't there for 3D games and the development support for a newbie platform in a swamped market is non existant. The device is competing against the xbox 360 and PS3 for living room dominance, it could win the battle for content delivery but not for games.

Older classics that could work, such as mario platformers are all owned by nintendo and are available for download on the wii virtual console. Xbox Live has a similar service for 'simple' games. :apple:TV doesn't even have an official controller let alone developers.

Gaming is a highly competitive market with astronomical entry costs, apple can dabble but not much else.

longofest
Mar 6, 2007, 12:21 PM
Now, now ladies, lets be fair. These guys (http://www.fscklog.com/2007/03/kurzer_blick_au.html) had it first. But I'm in agreement that AppleInsider should credit such stories.

True enough... our story has been updated.

Hattig
Mar 6, 2007, 12:22 PM
Will Apple TV have 3D hardware?

A 64MB nVidia GeForce 7400.

That's more than a Wii. On the other hand the AppleTV will be running at 1280x720x60, not 863x480x30 / 863x576x25.

Edit: I should point out that this means that the Apple TV could have beautiful looking games, but the games will be simple and generic, nothing much like what is available on the PS2/PS3/XBox/XBox360/GC/Wii. Also the AppleTV has a problem in that it has no Bluetooth (unless that's why there is a delay) for a game controller, and a single USB port ain't exactly setting the world on fire.

longofest
Mar 6, 2007, 12:24 PM
No, I didn't see the keynote. Thanks for the info. the 7400 isn't bad. Somewhere in between last generation and next generation consoles.

-rich

The specs of the :apple: TV (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/14/apple-tv-specs/) (note: unofficial. Actual detailed specs have not been released by Apple).

Mr Skills
Mar 6, 2007, 12:26 PM
I bought a new copy of Sega Rally for PC from Woolworths (big UK chain of shops) the other day for £1. The entire game takes up 40MB and the only thing that dates it for me (a non-hardcore gamer) is the low resolution of 640x480.

http://www.emunova.net/img/tests/874.jpg

There's no reason why they could not do something like that, but higher res, in an easily-downloadable size. And as long as they are careful about graphics design (e.g. avoiding things that are meant to look photo-realistic) they could do some great looking games.

Just because you can't get Ultra-Super-Halo-Quake 7 or whatever, doesn't mean that you are stuck with PacMan. Don't forget Apple's reputation for thinking different.

macfaninpdx
Mar 6, 2007, 12:29 PM
I saw this blog (http://www.macuser.com/hardware/busting_the_apple_tv_games_rum.php) from Dan Moren at MacUser. It seems pretty clear to me that there won't be games on AppleTV. At least not at first.

gkarris
Mar 6, 2007, 12:32 PM
A 64MB nVidia GeForce 7400.

That's more than a Wii. On the other hand the AppleTV will be running at 1280x720x60, not 863x480x30 / 863x576x25.

Edit: I should point out that this means that the Apple TV could have beautiful looking games, but the games will be simple and generic, nothing much like what is available on the PS2/PS3/XBox/XBox360/GC/Wii. Also the AppleTV has a problem in that it has no Bluetooth (unless that's why there is a delay) for a game controller, and a single USB port ain't exactly setting the world on fire.

Really better than a Wii?

Well, it looks like it will at least cover up to a Sega Dreamcast.

Hydrothunder for :apple:TV!! Way cool!

AvP from Jaguar anyone - maybe even network capable???

crees!
Mar 6, 2007, 12:32 PM
if Apple remote can be revamped to be like Wii remote, I will be sold.

It'll be like the iPhone and will display buttons unique to what you are controlling (AppleTV, cable box, DVD player, etc).

Swarmlord
Mar 6, 2007, 12:35 PM
I'm sure it wont' be the current AppleTV, but Apple does NEED a gaming console. It fits EXACTLY into thier marketshare demographic! <snip>.

It would be nice, but i doubt they want to compete in the sub $250 machine category. I'd be happy if they brought more games that would run on Powerbooks and minis.

CoreWeb
Mar 6, 2007, 12:36 PM
Well, the underclocked 1GHz in the AppleTV is technically above the supposed 729 MHz the Wii gets, but the Wii is PowerPC...

But, is Intel faster, or slower, than PowerPC? The age-old question...

So, technically, the AppleTV may be more powerful than the Wii, so what does it use this power for? Even the iPod is capable of playing 640x480 video, the AppleTV need only be about 4x as powerful as that to play 720p. So would 4 iPods be more powerful than a Wii? Or is all that computing power not required for the simple playing of movies?

I can't see the AppleTV being a great gaming system... but then again, I didn't think Apple could release a "great" phone - but at that time, I was thinking of phones like the RAZR, and how there wasn't really much "innovation" that could be done. I didn't foresee Apple making a smartphone until later. So could it be something more in the gaming platform?

Of course, it could just be iPod style games.

boxandrew
Mar 6, 2007, 12:41 PM
Do we know why there was a delay for the :apple:TV? I'm sure someone has suggested this before, but perhaps it was something connected with the secret features of Leopard...

BTW, sorry for being so ignorant, but what is the new shipping date for these things?

Shintocam
Mar 6, 2007, 12:42 PM
It'll be like the iPhone and will display buttons unique to what you are controlling (AppleTV, cable box, DVD player, etc).

Yes, but then the "controller"/remote is going to cost almost as much as the :apple: TV - soon when you add in the extra BlueTooth module, this accessory controller etc...the cost of the :apple:TV is going to be nearly as much as an XBox360....

I think just keeping it simple, maybe adding a scrollwheel to the remote and making use of simple games like the iPod has is going to be the extent of it (at the most).

Plus remember the line says something like "are you sure you want to sync your games to the :apple:TV?" What it may mean is "are you sure you want to sync your games to the :apple:TV? 'cause it ain't gonna do you any good if you do".....

Shintocam
Mar 6, 2007, 12:45 PM
So, technically, the AppleTV may be more powerful than the Wii, so what does it use this power for? Even the iPod is capable of playing 640x480 video, the AppleTV need only be about 4x as powerful as that to play 720p.

Unless, they decide to only use vector graphics for the games? Starwars? Tempest? Asteroids?

Could be cool.....

yagran
Mar 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
yeh confirms my suspicions after i got a questionnaire in t y inbox from apple asking me what games console i owned. lol :apple:

LimeiBook86
Mar 6, 2007, 12:49 PM
This is pretty interesting. I did find it odd that Jobs mentioned video game consoles on the Macworld Keynote, remember? He was talking about the markets for cell phones and video games and digital cameras. Video game consoles were the least and he said something like "See not as big as you thought." Makes you think... I'm sure they can do something with the Apple TV game wise.

Who knows there might even a be a small bluetooth chip in the Apple TV, so add some wireless gamepads and your set. Maybe eventually this means a gamepad system preference in Mac OS X 10.5? Or at least something that doesn't require you to buy a 3rd party plug-in to use a USB gamepad :p

powermac_daddy
Mar 6, 2007, 12:53 PM
why can't they just design a wide screen monitor that can use for both computer and cable TV.

wrldwzrd89
Mar 6, 2007, 12:56 PM
This is pretty interesting. I did find it odd that Jobs mentioned video game consoles on the Macworld Keynote, remember? He was talking about the markets for cell phones and video games and digital cameras. Video game consoles were the least and he said something like "See not as big as you thought." Makes you think... I'm sure they can do something with the Apple TV game wise.

Who knows there might even a be a small bluetooth chip in the Apple TV, so add some wireless gamepads and your set. Maybe eventually this means a gamepad system preference in Mac OS X 10.5? Or at least something that doesn't require you to buy a 3rd party plug-in to use a USB gamepad :p
I have to agree with you there, as far as the Apple TV goes...

On the other hand, I have a USB gamepad plugged into my Mac, and it works just fine with the games I play, with no need for a 3rd party plug-in or preference pane. (Don't most games have control configuration options in their preferences? Mine do.)

Peace
Mar 6, 2007, 01:00 PM
FCC regulations require ANY video console that connects to your TV to have an external "access port".This is why you see cable boxes,game consoles and the :apple: TV with external ports that are labeled "for future use" or something to that effect.

Please don't automatically assume it's for anything other than to meet regulations.

DMann
Mar 6, 2007, 01:01 PM
A 64MB nVidia GeForce 7400.

That's more than a Wii. On the other hand the AppleTV will be running at 1280x720x60, not 863x480x30 / 863x576x25.

Edit: I should point out that this means that the Apple TV could have beautiful looking games, but the games will be simple and generic, nothing much like what is available on the PS2/PS3/XBox/XBox360/GC/Wii. Also the AppleTV has a problem in that it has no Bluetooth (unless that's why there is a delay) for a game controller, and a single USB port ain't exactly setting the world on fire.

Yea, but that's what dongles are for.........:p We will be seeing, soon after release, a special option built :apple:Gaming TV offered along side the generic one. Once Apple realizes how strong the demand is, they'll make all :apple:TVs :apple:Gaming TVs, with better graphics cards, Bluetooth, and even awesome choices for controls. Now, THIS will be big!

ladbroke
Mar 6, 2007, 01:01 PM
You guys are really intense about this, huh?

I don't think there's any way Apple could compete with Nintendo, Sony, or MS. Look at Apple's business model: it finds consumer electronics that are obviously broken, corrects them with a nuanced, user-centric approach, and sells them for large sums of money. Just how is is the gaming industry broken? How does Apple add value to it in a way that others can't?

In any case, my point is the gaming industry is way too crowded for Apple to enter on the scale some of you are suggesting. It'll have a few iPod games, tops, and use the Apple remote (or an after market controller) to control them.

RichCoder
Mar 6, 2007, 01:02 PM
Well, the underclocked 1GHz in the AppleTV is technically above the supposed 729 MHz the Wii gets, but the Wii is PowerPC...

But, is Intel faster, or slower, than PowerPC? The age-old question...


It's the Pentium M processor, so it is faster.

-rich

pgwalsh
Mar 6, 2007, 01:03 PM
Any gaming on the :apple:tv will be of the Tertris and Pac-Man varieties. Maybe some Missle Command and other Atari type games. An afterthought like the video iPod. It won't be Wii or PS or XBox level gaming. Sorry Hardcore Complaymers.You wouldn't need a 1 Ghz Pentium M to play those games. I don't know the full specifications of the Apple TV, but I imagine you could play average games with the 1Ghz processor, like Age of Empires. However, this also depends on what OS capabilities this little unit has. :)

crees!
Mar 6, 2007, 01:05 PM
Yes, but then the "controller"/remote is going to cost almost as much as the :apple: TV - soon when you add in the extra BlueTooth module, this accessory controller etc...the cost of the :apple:TV is going to be nearly as much as an XBox360....

I think just keeping it simple, maybe adding a scrollwheel to the remote and making use of simple games like the iPod has is going to be the extent of it (at the most).

Plus remember the line says something like "are you sure you want to sync your games to the :apple:TV?" What it may mean is "are you sure you want to sync your games to the :apple:TV? 'cause it ain't gonna do you any good if you do".....

Do you not remember the one Apple patent that went floating around months ago about a remote that could do just that? $600 for a phone, the apparent price-tag alone doesn't both Apple. They'll charge, people will buy. Whatever the remote it'll be included with Apple TV, not as an accessory.

dazzer21
Mar 6, 2007, 01:08 PM
I don't understand how ? could even hope to enter into the games market when it is so clearly dominated by established players. However, what of emulation and having already existing titles play on the ? hardware? I'm still using Connectix Virtual Game Station on my G4 Powerbook and that's more than a step up from Tetris or Patience - I'm currently playing Gran Turismo2! Would ? be able to produce hardware that can readily play XBox/PS2/PS3/Wii games directly off the discs?

And is ?TV going to make playing already existing titles easy, so you can for example wirelessly beam your XBox 360 from upstairs onto your living room TV?

maximile
Mar 6, 2007, 01:20 PM
In this post (http://www.maximile.net/blog/?p=46) on my blog (which I'm shamelessly spamming, because I'm proud that I predicted this in January), I have a go at answering some of these questions. Here's a summary if you don't want to visit:


Graphics sufficient for all sorts of cool games. Even if the graphics card isn't the rumoured 64MB GeForce, the fact that it can display all those cool menus and decode HD video suggests that it'd be capable of doing impressive stuff.
Controlled either by bluetooth dongle or 802.11 wireless controllers. There's no reason you can't use 802.11 as an input device protocol. They'd just have to write custom ethernet drivers to allow it.
Market. I don't think they'll be aiming to compete with the Wii in any way. I think they're more likely to try and set up something like Xbox Live Arcade, but with the marketplace on the computer (iTunes) rather than on the console.


Plus remember the line says something like "are you sure you want to sync your games to the TV?" What it may mean is "are you sure you want to sync your games to the TV? 'cause it ain't gonna do you any good if you do"..... :D :D

Clive At Five
Mar 6, 2007, 01:20 PM
Really better than a Wii?

Well, it looks like it will at least cover up to a Sega Dreamcast.

Hydrothunder for :apple:TV!! Way cool!

AvP from Jaguar anyone - maybe even network capable???

Dude, I always loved HydroThunder... but was so disappointed that you could only get up to 2 players on dreamcast...

Regarding processing power, however, UT (Unreal Tournament [the original]) still plays like a dream on my 400MHz G3 iMac DV SE. Well... maybe not a dream, but pretty damn well. I'm sure the :apple:TV could handle it... not that I'm suggesting anything...

If I were to suggest anything, I'd say BRING BACK ESCAPE VELOCITY!!!

Yeah? Are ya with me?

-Clive

Mr Skills
Mar 6, 2007, 01:23 PM
I don't understand why so many thinks that the Apple TV has to play either really simple pacmac style games, or complex console type games. There is a middle ground you know, as I mentioned in my Sega Rally example: simple (but not archaic) arcade games with nice (but not next-gen) graphics.

Maybe something like the old Sega "virtua" series with updated graphics: the games are just the right level of simplicity, the graphical style is easy to make really cool-looking in HD without needing ridiculous power and there is a strong visual theme.

http://www.defunctgames.com/pic/reviewpics/reviewvf2sat-1.jpg
http://bonusweb.idnes.cz/obrazek/budgety0602scrm02.jpg
http://www.ownage.nl/images/content/21551.jpg

Imagine they went all retro-style with lots of polygons, but in a really cool, ultra-smooth HD way. They would be small and easily downloaded, look really cool without taking up power, be sophisticated enough to be really playable but not so complex they were competing with consoles.

Of course I'm dreaming... I'm just saying that we should not only look at this in the obvious "either ipod games or full console games" way.

Billicus
Mar 6, 2007, 01:31 PM
Apple + Game console = Happy Matt.


To be fair, Apple already tried the whole Apple + Game console once. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin) I'm sure they'll do better this time because the days of the Pippin and the Newton were before their day. :(

a456
Mar 6, 2007, 01:49 PM
Given that this is a streaming device, could some of the processing speed and graphics power be offset by the device it is streaming from? For example if you have a top of the range MacPro could the Apple TV be a window into the MacPro that utilizes its power as a gaming machine. This might be complete techno pie in the sky, but in that way you wouldn't need to keep buying a new Apple TV but would benefit from upgrading your desktop or laptop.

Mr Skills
Mar 6, 2007, 01:52 PM
Given that this is a streaming device, could some of the processing speed and graphics power be offset by the device it is streaming from? For example if you have a top of the range MacPro could the Apple TV be a window into the MacPro that utilizes its power as a gaming machine. This might be complete techno pie in the sky, but in that way you wouldn't need to keep buying a new Apple TV but would benefit from upgrading your desktop or laptop.

Maybe for some sort of turn-based game but there is no way it could stream the data back and forth fast enough for anything that required instant control. The lag would be huge.

MacDrool
Mar 6, 2007, 02:14 PM
It'll be like the iPhone and will display buttons unique to what you are controlling (AppleTV, cable box, DVD player, etc).

Perhaps the iPhone could be used as an Apple TV controller, adding additional functionality via software buttons etc. It even has an accelerometer(?) inside to tell orientation. This could be used for gaming, yes?

DMann
Mar 6, 2007, 02:16 PM
Perhaps the iPhone could be used as an Apple TV controller, adding additional functionality via software buttons etc. It even has an accelerometer(?) inside to tell orientation. This could be used for gaming, yes?

Great idea, although this would make for one really expensive remote :eek:

longofest
Mar 6, 2007, 02:20 PM
I saw this blog (http://www.macuser.com/hardware/busting_the_apple_tv_games_rum.php) from Dan Moren at MacUser. It seems pretty clear to me that there won't be games on AppleTV. At least not at first.

I didn't see anything in that blog post that changed my mind. MacUser and MacWorld (their sibling) always seem to ignore any news that could be classified as "rumor" or otherwise discredit it, which is their biggest weakness.

avkills
Mar 6, 2007, 02:32 PM
Maybe before we cry about games, we should wait and see how well it does for what it was designed for.

-mark

inkswamp
Mar 6, 2007, 02:49 PM
Retro gaming is becoming popular - nothing really past DOOM...

Bring on the Atari and Williams Classics!!!

Everything prior to Doom is great for nostalgic reasons (especially if you're my age and grew up in the Goldmine Arcade) but beyond that, they're pretty much worthless. Even my friends and I got bored of those games pretty quickly back then. I think Apple should set the bar a little higher and aim for something a little more modern. If people can already play the classics in emulation on their own computers then I think it's probably okay to expect a little more from :apple:TV than that.

kalisphoenix
Mar 6, 2007, 03:07 PM
The big thing for me was always:
a) simple, mind-intensive games (Adventures of Lolo)
b) horribly drawn-out RPGs (SSI, Wizardry -- things taking months or years to beat)
c) text games (Zork)
d) surreal platform games (Mario, Goonies 2, etc)

For instance, I was never big into FPS or fighting games, although I was big into Street Fighter 2 until about the twelfth time they remade it.

The cool thing about this is, to make me happy, all Apple would need to do is make a computer capable of running a DOS emulator, an NES emulator, and perhaps a couple other emulators (Turbografix: SPLATTERHOUSE LIVES!)

And the really cool thing is that I'm sitting here using one of them right now ;) And it's portable, it also runs Windows, and it hooks to my TV... etc etc.

Bonte
Mar 6, 2007, 03:24 PM
Anyone expecting :apple:TV games any more sophisticated than pac man is probably going to be disappointed.

I hope there just the same as the iPod games and get the two versions when bought. Buy the iPod game and get the iTV game extra or vice versa.

maxp1
Mar 6, 2007, 03:51 PM
I think the Wii has made it clear that there is lots of market for medium range gaming, which is what games on :apple:TV would be. There are lots of ways games can be fun without being graphicly intense and for your average consumer who just wants to download a game to play for a few hours this would be just about right.

It could be an interesting niche for the product.

epardilla
Mar 6, 2007, 04:01 PM
http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/56052.html

:cool: :D :( :o :apple:

Frisco
Mar 6, 2007, 04:30 PM
http://www.macnewsworld.com/story/56052.html

:cool: :D :( :o :apple:

Interesting read. Thanks for the link!

Kallikanzaros
Mar 6, 2007, 04:31 PM
Come on... three pages already and no one has mentioned Steves affiliation with Pong in his Atari days? ;)

LimeiBook86
Mar 6, 2007, 04:41 PM
Come on... three pages already and no one has mentioned Steves affiliation with Pong in his Atari days? ;)

Actually the game was Breakout. Jobs & Woz helped to code the game for Atari back in the day. More info here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakout#History_and_development) :D

slu
Mar 6, 2007, 04:59 PM
Great, I can now play crappy, over-priced iPod games on my TV...with a sub-standard controller. Where do I sign up?

Adding in simple games functionality may be bonus to some, but I doubt adding in this feature will sell any "extra" :apple: TVs.

Kallikanzaros
Mar 6, 2007, 05:25 PM
Actually the game was Breakout. Jobs & Woz helped to code the game for Atari back in the day. More info here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakout#History_and_development) :D

I stand corrected.

Pants Dragon
Mar 6, 2007, 05:38 PM
I really hope the Canadian store gets movies soon, it's annoying that I can't buy them here. :(

EricNau
Mar 6, 2007, 05:40 PM
I'm not expecting any games that can't be controlled by the Apple Remote or played on an iPod.

TheManOfSilver
Mar 6, 2007, 05:44 PM
I'm just happy to see that video content will be coming to Canada ... long overdue if you ask me.

surferfromuk
Mar 6, 2007, 06:15 PM
I'd like to see games that not only could all and any of the family play but that they'd actually want to.

The biggest distinction I'm going to make is the avoidance of games that rely on 'reaction time'.

Your going to think I'm a bit crazy here but how about being able to play either with the family in the same room 'internet link up' multi-player with games like scrabble, monopoly, 'video' blackjack dealer, chess , cluedo, risk, charades, dungeons & Dragons (character based rpg over the network), battleships, trivial pursuit, card games, etc etc


You know the living room is a 'family zone' and traditional gaming consoles lock out the 'entire family' big style...

I could just see all the silver surfers playing cribbage 'online' via the telly...

Apple TV is strikes me is for 'TV first' - that means it's a 'communal experience' so this kind of game could really fit into that..

Digital Skunk
Mar 6, 2007, 06:37 PM
I could less about games and Apple TV right now... (my own personal problems with my job... :mad: :mad: ) but I am glad that Apple is making strides and i hope they do it right.

And the more posts I post the sooner I will get to put a picture up by my name.

DMann
Mar 6, 2007, 06:50 PM
Given that this is a streaming device, could some of the processing speed and graphics power be offset by the device it is streaming from? For example if you have a top of the range MacPro could the Apple TV be a window into the MacPro that utilizes its power as a gaming machine. This might be complete techno pie in the sky, but in that way you wouldn't need to keep buying a new Apple TV but would benefit from upgrading your desktop or laptop.

Why stop there? Let's network a gaming cluster; a gaming supercomputer which can generate 3D holographic images right upon your livingroom floor...:cool:

biggarthomas
Mar 6, 2007, 09:34 PM
This is all that I have been waiting for - movie and TV show sales in Canada. If that's what is on offer, I will but Apple TV on the very day that I can be sure that there is I can download reall content. I'm just not interested in the product if all it will do in Canada is to play music videos and National Geographic shorts. We are movie hounds in our house and we'll spend $50 to 60 per week on good movies, never go to crappy Blockbuster again and be very happy.

biggarthomas
Mar 6, 2007, 10:33 PM
I could less about games and Apple TV right now... (my own personal problems with my job... :mad: :mad: ) but I am glad that Apple is making strides and i hope they do it right.

And the more posts I post the sooner I will get to put a picture up by my name.

Actually, it's 500 years but who's counting?

Curtis72
Mar 6, 2007, 11:40 PM
Why do people keep bringing up the Apple Pippin?
Just because a company tries something and it failes doesn't mean they don't try again.

Besides the Pippin was from the bad ole Apple days. The All New, All Different
has a proven track record :)

Gaming would be nice in the Apple TV but I prefer they integrate iCal and Safari into it. Or better yet the rumor remote desktop feature.

Cult Follower
Mar 6, 2007, 11:42 PM
This is getting me even more excited for something that isn't sure yet.

Pooldraft
Mar 7, 2007, 01:01 AM
I Support Your Bloated Software..............not!:(

Pikemann Urge
Mar 7, 2007, 06:13 AM
I like some of the comments here so far - many of you obviously understand the way Apple thinks (IMO) even though they might not actually do what we think they will.

I like: the idea of a 'communal' gaming experience, decent, old but not too old titles. In addition: the emergence of a potentially new market, maybe new developers, maybe old developers who want to revamp their old Amiga and ST games.

There are quite a few good, old games that we don't play anymore because hey we only have so much room on our desks. As much as I'd love that Amiga next to my day-to-day computer I just don't have the room.

For those who remember, imagine seeing these old titles slightly improved for the Apple TV:

- Armor-Geddon 1 & 2

- Battle Cars (freeware Amiga title, simple polygon graphics)

- Speedball 2

- All the Jeff Minter games

- Zee Wolf (neat little 3rd-person helicopter game on Amiga)

- Sensible Soccer

- Knights of the Sky (WW1 aerial combat)

I almost feel like getting into programming again. Imagine being a little developer just for the Apple TV. Without the huge pressure put on major game devs, wouldn't it be fun in comparison?

tayklor
Mar 7, 2007, 06:59 AM
Do we know why there was a delay for the :apple:TV? I'm sure someone has suggested this before, but perhaps it was something connected with the secret features of Leopard...


I have figured out the secret features of Leopard. It is that mac os x is on longer MAC os x, just os x it runs on the iPhone and :apple: TV too. also, look at the user interface of the iPhone and :apple: TV. GLOSY BLACK, maybe the new mac os x interface to.

frank781
Mar 7, 2007, 11:52 AM
In reading some of the comments I think that a lot of people are underestimating the potential of the Apple TV as a gaming console.

In checking on the leaked specs (per AppleInsider) the Apple TV Has the following specs:

Audio Output : HDMI, optical audio, analog RCA stereo audio
Hard Drive: 40GB
CD/DVD: None
Processor: 1.0GHz Pentium underclocked on a 350MHz bus
RAM: 256MB of 400MHz DDR2
Software (selected): Apple TV interface (modified Front Row)
Video RAM : nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 Video Memory
Resolutions: 720p
Wireless Features: 802.11b, g, n
Video Output: HDMI, component video

As a Comparison, here are the specs of a PS2:
CPU: 128-bit "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294 MHz,
System Memory: 32 MiB Direct Rambus or RDRAM
Graphics: "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147 MHz
Audio Output: Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround sound, DTS
Resolutions: 480i

Or the specs of the X-Box:
CPU: 733 MHz Intel Coppermine-based IA-32 CPU
64 MiB DDR SDRAM at 200 MHz
Graphics processing unit (GPU) and system chipset: 233 MHz NV2A ASIC
Audio processor : NVIDIA MCPX (a.k.a. SoundStorm NVAPU)
Integrated 10/100BASE-TX Ethernet
DVD movie playback
8 GB 3.5-inch 5,400 RPM hard disk

Compared to these highly successful consoles, the Apple TV doesn't look too shabby. If the success of the Wii shows everyone, is that the Games (and game play) are the keys to a successful console, not the horsepower of the console.

the_ki
Mar 7, 2007, 01:13 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this addition in the Quicktime Pro update. Here's my list of file types in the Export dialog.

LimeiBook86
Mar 7, 2007, 01:17 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this addition in the Quicktime Pro update. Here's my list of file types in the Export dialog.

Well that's good. That means people will be able to convert their home media to Apple TV content :D *pets Handbrake* ;)

DMann
Mar 7, 2007, 07:15 PM
Well that's good. That means people will be able to convert their home media to Apple TV content :D *pets Handbrake* ;)

I suppose a downgrade every now and then can do some good :D

DMann
Mar 7, 2007, 08:39 PM
In reading some of the comments I think that a lot of people are underestimating the potential of the Apple TV as a gaming console.

In checking on the leaked specs (per AppleInsider) the Apple TV Has the following specs:

Audio Output : HDMI, optical audio, analog RCA stereo audio
Hard Drive: 40GB
CD/DVD: None
Processor: 1.0GHz Pentium underclocked on a 350MHz bus
RAM: 256MB of 400MHz DDR2
Software (selected): Apple TV interface (modified Front Row)
Video RAM : nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 Video Memory
Resolutions: 720p
Wireless Features: 802.11b, g, n
Video Output: HDMI, component video

As a Comparison, here are the specs of a PS2:
CPU: 128-bit "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294 MHz,
System Memory: 32 MiB Direct Rambus or RDRAM
Graphics: "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147 MHz
Audio Output: Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround sound, DTS
Resolutions: 480i

Or the specs of the X-Box:
CPU: 733 MHz Intel Coppermine-based IA-32 CPU
64 MiB DDR SDRAM at 200 MHz
Graphics processing unit (GPU) and system chipset: 233 MHz NV2A ASIC
Audio processor : NVIDIA MCPX (a.k.a. SoundStorm NVAPU)
Integrated 10/100BASE-TX Ethernet
DVD movie playback
8 GB 3.5-inch 5,400 RPM hard disk

Compared to these highly successful consoles, the Apple TV doesn't look too shabby. If the success of the Wii shows everyone, is that the Games (and game play) are the keys to a successful console, not the horsepower of the console.

Thank's for the comps., Frank. Potential means everything right now, and :apple:TV's capabilities reveal an intent to attract a larger crowd, from movie watchers, music listeners, gamers, web-surfers, etc. Remember, Apple is not trying to compete with Sony, Nintendo, MS, etc. They're merely including gaming to make this unit the most versatile TV set-box out there, and will likely attract more consumers by doing so :)

babyj
Mar 7, 2007, 09:05 PM
In reading some of the comments I think that a lot of people are underestimating the potential of the Apple TV as a gaming console.

<snip>

Compared to these highly successful consoles, the Apple TV doesn't look too shabby. If the success of the Wii shows everyone, is that the Games (and game play) are the keys to a successful console, not the horsepower of the console.

Its pretty pointless trying to make direct comparisons between a games console and Apple TV. Games consoles are designed specifically to play games, which means custom processors and a custom os to do just that. I'd be very surprised if Apple TV could even get close to a PS2, Xbox or Wii.

There is also the question of exactly what the point would be. A Wii (which is aimed pretty much for the same demographic as a games playing Apple TV would be) costs less than Apple TV. So why not just buy a Wii as well?

Whilst there is no suggestion of a tie up, its worth pointing out again that Nintendo have stated that the Wii is a games console and not a media hub. So an Apple TV and a Wii is a pretty perfect pairing to cover everything.

DMann
Mar 8, 2007, 12:46 AM
Its pretty pointless trying to make direct comparisons between a games console and Apple TV. Games consoles are designed specifically to play games, which means custom processors and a custom os to do just that. I'd be very surprised if Apple TV could even get close to a PS2, Xbox or Wii.

There is also the question of exactly what the point would be. A Wii (which is aimed pretty much for the same demographic as a games playing Apple TV would be) costs less than Apple TV. So why not just buy a Wii as well?

Whilst there is no suggestion of a tie up, its worth pointing out again that Nintendo have stated that the Wii is a games console and not a media hub. So an Apple TV and a Wii is a pretty perfect pairing to cover everything.

True, the :apple:TV will never have the capacity of the Wii, but for many, having one media box, which also plays games well, is a more unified and attractive option (as well as less expensive overall) :rolleyes: