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MacRumors
Mar 20, 2007, 01:03 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Macworld originally reported (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/01/apple-to-hold-special-event-at-nab/) on a special event to be held at the National Association of Broadcasters on April 15th, 2007.

Appleinsider has published (http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2585) the invite which was sent out last week.

Meanwhile, on online form (http://www.apple.com/go/nab/register/) of the invite is available at Apple's website.

Please join us for a special presentation at NAB in The Venetian Hotel and Casino on Sunday, April 15, at 11:00 a.m. Seating is limited for this invitation-only event.

Though it says "invitation-only", it appears any interested party can register.



QCassidy352
Mar 20, 2007, 01:05 PM
sweet - an apple event on my birthday. :)

cbud
Mar 20, 2007, 01:06 PM
come on 720p tv shows!!!!

SoldOutMatinee
Mar 20, 2007, 01:07 PM
The Venetian hotel? Holy crap, that's here in Vegas!

natallica
Mar 20, 2007, 01:07 PM
Sweet! An Apple event the day before my birthday!

:D

-- N

bill4588
Mar 20, 2007, 01:07 PM
Leopard is finally gonna be released!

apachie2k
Mar 20, 2007, 01:11 PM
how fortunate are we?? i hope no one here is dissapointed, i have this feeling that we may be expecting something spectacular... and what we get is... something better :rolleyes:

MacSamurai
Mar 20, 2007, 01:14 PM
Mac pros or ipods pleeeeeeaase if any of these come... then party at my place :)

SuperCompu2
Mar 20, 2007, 01:14 PM
Lights: LED Backlights...

Camera: New iSights or built-in display models, New FCP

?: New mac?

My guesses.

giganten
Mar 20, 2007, 01:16 PM
Please release leopard, so I can buy my first Mac.

Zukum
Mar 20, 2007, 01:17 PM
Is a "NAB" an event where new products have been released in the past? What about it being on a Sunday?

BenRoethig
Mar 20, 2007, 01:20 PM
Expect a new version of Final Cut Pro Studio with Shake technology built in and Final Cut Express 6.

ready2switch
Mar 20, 2007, 01:20 PM
Is a "NAB" an event where new products have been released in the past? What about it being on a Sunday?

If I remember correctly, the 17" MBP was released at NAB last year. I don't remember the day of the week, I was going to say Saturday, but don't hold me to that.

Peace
Mar 20, 2007, 01:21 PM
The 17" MBP was released at NAB.

FCS is more likely but this hall is big.80,000 sq. ft.

Apple has yet to announce WHO is giving the presentation.

puckhead193
Mar 20, 2007, 01:21 PM
its prob gonna be something pro dealing with Final Cut Studio cause that's the background for it...

mrgreen4242
Mar 20, 2007, 01:22 PM
Leopard is finally gonna be released!

I think the 720p downloads are much more likely. Movies maybe, TV shows likely. They may drop some Leopard hints, though.

I'm really curious how they'll price HD content. If they're smart they'll price it the same at the current SD and drop the SD prices. They could really steal any thunder HDDVD and BR have going at this point with a great pricing structure... guess we'll see.

BenRoethig
Mar 20, 2007, 01:24 PM
Mac pros or ipods pleeeeeeaase if any of these come... then party at my place :)

Mac Pros maybe. I doubt we'll see iPods at a professional Broadcasters conference.

ready2switch
Mar 20, 2007, 01:24 PM
The 17" MBP was released at NAB.

FCS is more likely but this hall is big.80,000 sq. ft.

Apple has yet to announce WHO is giving the presentation.

Maybe it will be like the Price is Right. "Where better to use your new FCS than on your BRAND NEW <insert new mac here>!" *applause**future buyers jump up and down screaming and nearly faint at the sight*

:p

BenRoethig
Mar 20, 2007, 01:26 PM
Is a "NAB" an event where new products have been released in the past? What about it being on a Sunday?

Usually either Software aimed at the Broadcast market or Pro hardware.

hollerz
Mar 20, 2007, 01:27 PM
Please release leopard, so I can buy my first Mac.

Good News! Mac's are allready on sale!

I'm hoping for Leopard hints and 720p video on iTunes (and in the UK lol). Though I'm not expecting either!

cbud
Mar 20, 2007, 01:29 PM
Mac Pros maybe. I doubt we'll see iPods at a professional Broadcasters conference.

I predict no new computers till Leopard is released. Once that is out we will see a completely new lineup, everything is ready for an upgrade.

boxandrew
Mar 20, 2007, 01:33 PM
Usually either Software aimed at the Broadcast market or Pro hardware.

Makes sense, but did they send out invitations last year? :rolleyes:

hob
Mar 20, 2007, 01:35 PM
So new Final Cut is a given then, but I'd imagine it may well require core animation... or some new Leopard features... so I'm hopeful for a Leopard release!

timon
Mar 20, 2007, 01:36 PM
Wonder what else will be released? Maybe the new iMac I hope, I hope, I hope.

MacSamurai
Mar 20, 2007, 01:37 PM
Mac Pros maybe. I doubt we'll see iPods at a professional Broadcasters conference.
well full screen ipod could be good for watching shows and stuff hence relevant to broadcasting.Would also be cool if it had wifi lol for some lovely wireless streaming...

RedDragon870503
Mar 20, 2007, 01:46 PM
Probably a new mini is in order? X3000 C2D up to a 2.33, please!

sdhollman
Mar 20, 2007, 01:49 PM
I am seriously thinking that the new speed bumped but not totally redesigned Mac Pro (if not released before then), Final Cut Studio 6, and since we will get a new box the long in the tooth Cinema Displays should be refreshed. Apple has refreshed displays and Macs at the same time before so we could see that again. By looking at the Buyer's guide both models need to be updates really soon.

The time between now and then could be used to bump up the rest of the current line-up from the Mini's to the MBP. We need something, anything on the hardware front, the iPhone splash page is starting to actually make me mad! :mad:

I would also like to see the Next-Gen version of Shake that Apple is working on and some 3D camera love for Motion so that it can finally take on After Effects.

averyash
Mar 20, 2007, 01:51 PM
if we're going to dream... they'll probably be shocking the world by announcing that the iPhone is shipping. :)

Chupa Chupa
Mar 20, 2007, 01:51 PM
How come so many here don't realize NAB is a PROFESSIONAL conference meant for video PROFESSIONALS. Apple is not going to announce anything that is purely consumer related. It NEVER has at NAB or any other pro convention. Don't expect anything on the iPod/iTunes, iMac, iLife, iPhone, MacBook front. You'll only end up heartbroken. Also don't expect a Leopard announcement other than how it might integrate with FCP Studio.

Here is what Apple will/might announce:

Final Cut Pro is a no brainer (the FCP box graphic is on the invite. How is that for a giveaway).

8-Core MP is more possible than not. I suspect if the FCP Extreme rumors are true it might require that kind of horsepower. But I'm also betting they won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New MacBook Pros is a 50/50 gamble. Maybe 51/49 in favor of new machines. Also won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New high res displays for the entire line. Flip a coin, but only if a new MP is announced.

That is is. That is the show. Leopard will have it's own Apple Event. iLife '07 will be unveiled then.

maxp1
Mar 20, 2007, 01:51 PM
Don't get your hopes up. I know what I hope for (MBP), but more likely is a preview of leopard and some updated pro apps.

kirkbross
Mar 20, 2007, 01:52 PM
I've been waiting for Octopussy Mac Pros to come out for too long -- I'm about to blow up my Dual 867 with some C4 it is so loud and slow... and I record in my apartment.

However, I think Adobe might beg Apple, or vice versa, to hold off on their next bombshell until CS3, Leopard and the new 8-core MPs can be released simultaneously -- the big marketing orgasm from which both companies would benefit. They've waited this long, so they might as well play the royal flush as opposed to the straight flush or four of a kind.

nateDEEZY
Mar 20, 2007, 01:56 PM
I'd like to hear from the people that rate this as 'Negative' Is it always the same handful of lurkers that always vote negative on potentially great/good news?

izzle22
Mar 20, 2007, 01:57 PM
I've been waiting for Octopussy Mac Pros to come out for too long -- I'm about to blow up my Dual 867 with some C4 it is so loud and slow... and I record in my apartment.

However, I think Adobe might beg Apple, or vice versa, to hold off on their next bombshell until CS3, Leopard and the new 8-core MPs can be released simultaneously -- the big marketing orgasm from which both companies would benefit. They've waited this long, so they might as well play the royal flush as opposed to the straight flush or four of a kind.



CS3 is being released around that time as well, from what I remember.

twoodcc
Mar 20, 2007, 01:58 PM
Leopard is finally gonna be released!

i hope so! or at least something....anything! :apple:

Damek
Mar 20, 2007, 01:58 PM
"Lights, Camera, :apple: "

The National Association of Broadcasters. I'm guessing something about TV/movies and :apple: TV. Maybe some software updates to their professional tools, or a new professional tool.

People waiting for hardware will not likely see anything on that day. The :apple: TV is already out, no update coming to that for quite some time; no rumors of other TV/media-related hardware.

Chances are they'll quietly update Mac minis and Pros before then, I've noticed they sometimes do minor hardware bumps shortly before some other event, to sort of maximize sales I expect. Make media announcement, people go looking at that, discover other stuff been's updated too and out come the wallets.

And I doubt they're waiting for Santa Rosa as that's 2 months off... they need hardware bumps for a few things sooner than that. I'd expect minor bumps before this April event, and Santa Rosa coming to appropriate products in August/September in time for school kids.

I hope so, anyway, I want a speed bumped mini! Wishful thinking is biasing my guesses... :p

AvSRoCkCO1067
Mar 20, 2007, 01:59 PM
Makes sense, but did they send out invitations last year? :rolleyes:

Yes.

MacFly123
Mar 20, 2007, 02:00 PM
How come so many here don't realize NAB is a PROFESSIONAL conference meant for video PROFESSIONALS. Apple is not going to announce anything that is purely consumer related. It NEVER has at NAB or any other pro convention. Don't expect anything on the iPod/iTunes, iMac, iLife, iPhone, MacBook front. You'll only end up heartbroken. Also don't expect a Leopard announcement other than how it might integrate with FCP Studio.

Here is what Apple will/might announce:

Final Cut Pro is a no brainer (the FCP box graphic is on the invite. How is that for a giveaway).

8-Core MP is more possible than not. I suspect if the FCP Extreme rumors are true it might require that kind of horsepower. But I'm also betting they won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New MacBook Pros is a 50/50 gamble. Maybe 51/49 in favor of new machines. Also won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New high res displays for the entire line. Flip a coin, but only if a new MP is announced.

That is is. That is the show. Leopard will have it's own Apple Event. iLife '07 will be unveiled then.

I TOTALLY AGREE! It's nice to see someone lese has some logic :)

Damek
Mar 20, 2007, 02:02 PM
I'm also curious about people who are crying for Leopard to show up so they can get a new something or other.

Why? Do you really want your brand-spankin-new hardware to come with a fresh *.0 OS, complete with bleeding edge bugs? When you could get brand-spankin-new hardware with Tiger whose troubles are largely worked out by now, enjoy it for half a year, and buy Leopard in the fall/winter after it's had a few months to have any of its own major problems ironed out.

I'm hopin' they update the minis (and whatever other hardware needs a bump), let me enjoy it on solid Tiger, release Leopard in summer and let all the early adopters bang their heads against it, and then I can get Tiger in Nov/Dec when it's more stable and it's clear what it can do.

4God
Mar 20, 2007, 02:05 PM
......Final Cut Pro is a no brainer (the FCP box graphic is on the invite. How is that for a giveaway).........

.........8-Core MP is more possible than not. I suspect if the FCP Extreme rumors are true it might require that kind of horsepower. But I'm also betting they won't ship until Leopard goes GM........

I agree about the Final Cut Studio. I believe there will be an announcement
regarding Final Cut Extreme that will not just be incredible software, but
also include some sort of hardware such as an accelerator board or some sort of I/O hardware.
Will probably include a new version of Shake with FC Extreme. I'll bet we see Leopard, and
new MacPros prior to that, probably the same day as CS3 is announced (March 27th).

4God
Mar 20, 2007, 02:09 PM
.....Chances are they'll quietly update Mac minis ......

1. Ummm....no, this is geared more towards the pro crowd.

......I'm hopin' they update the minis.........

2. See 1 above.

Keebler
Mar 20, 2007, 02:09 PM
oh boy. it's gotta be leopard and new mac pros.

i noticed the cnd refurb site has been unindated! It hasn't listed this many items (tons of macbooks too) in months.

months!

gotta be clearing the inventory.

oh boy! :)

Queso
Mar 20, 2007, 02:13 PM
FCS is a no-brainer. New Pro kit, probably displays and updated MPs with 8-core and Blu-Ray burners. Maybe even a media-related announcement, which could be from international Movies/TV iTunes or even that Fairplay or a separate DRM scheme that snaps into iTunes/iPods/:apple:tv etc. will be licensed to content providers. Leopard release date could also be announced.

It's a Pro conference for the TV industry. They aren't going to use it to announce a new mini with Garageband 4 :p

aswitcher
Mar 20, 2007, 02:24 PM
"LIGHTS CAMERA"

FCS seems a cert.

New screens - finally?

720p movie downloads...?

A new 720p iSight which is EU compliant? Attaches to iPod to make home movies?

andiwm2003
Mar 20, 2007, 02:26 PM
How come so many here don't realize NAB is a PROFESSIONAL conference meant for video PROFESSIONALS. Apple is not going to announce anything that is purely consumer related. It NEVER has at NAB or any other pro convention. Don't expect anything on the iPod/iTunes, iMac, iLife, iPhone, MacBook front. You'll only end up heartbroken. Also don't expect a Leopard announcement other than how it might integrate with FCP Studio.

Here is what Apple will/might announce:

Final Cut Pro is a no brainer (the FCP box graphic is on the invite. How is that for a giveaway).

8-Core MP is more possible than not. I suspect if the FCP Extreme rumors are true it might require that kind of horsepower. But I'm also betting they won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New MacBook Pros is a 50/50 gamble. Maybe 51/49 in favor of new machines. Also won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New high res displays for the entire line. Flip a coin, but only if a new MP is announced.

That is is. That is the show. Leopard will have it's own Apple Event. iLife '07 will be unveiled then.

amen. the first sane posting in this thread.

hyperpasta
Mar 20, 2007, 02:29 PM
Generally these Pro events aren't Stevenotes; that is, some VP of somethingoranother presents it, not Steve. I doubt that Steve would let Leopard be fully demonstrated by anyone but himself.

daneoni
Mar 20, 2007, 02:29 PM
Cinema Display updates, 8 Core Mac Pros and FCP.

Finito.

monkeydo_jb
Mar 20, 2007, 02:33 PM
Cinema Display updates, 8 Core Mac Pros and FCP.

Finito.

And Aperture 2.

Multimedia
Mar 20, 2007, 02:34 PM
I Registered Last Week And Wasn't Invited. I Have My Ticket Printed Out. I'm also pre-registered for the expo. But the $300 in gas and/or motel expense, depending on which vehicle I took, I would have to spend to get there and back is going to keep me from going thanks to the internet.

nickane
Mar 20, 2007, 02:34 PM
I agree about the Final Cut Studio. I believe there will be an announcement
regarding Final Cut Extreme that will not just be incredible software, but
also include some sort of hardware such as an accelerator board or some sort of I/O hardware.
Will probably include a new version of Shake with FC Extreme. I'll bet we see Leopard, and
new MacPros prior to that, probably the same day as CS3 is announced (March 27th).

If the integrated hardware/software rumours about FC Extreme are true (couldn't they call it Final Cut Ultra, so that we can differentiate between FCE/X, FCP/S and FCU? :rolleyes: ), they might throw Shake in for free, but they're not gonna release a new shake til Phenomenon in '08 and they're not gonna tell us anything about it cos that would give adobe et al more than enough time to pilfer some features for AE 8.0. When's that coming anyways? all this talk of CS3... there are other adobe apps that could do with going universal, even if they're not as widely-used.

lucab1982
Mar 20, 2007, 02:34 PM
Cinema Display updates, 8 Core Mac Pros and FCP.

Finito.

Apple normally likes to get ahead of the game but I think the battle between blu-ray and HD-DVD is too close to call for them to fully support one format but i would love to see a high-def format in a Mac! :p

Tymmz
Mar 20, 2007, 02:35 PM
I wish for new displays. I would like to buy a new one, but with an event around the corner I will wait.

Multimedia
Mar 20, 2007, 02:38 PM
Apple normally likes to get ahead of the game but I think the battle between blu-ray and HD-DVD is too close to call for them to fully support one format but i would love to see a high-def format in a Mac! :pPerhaps they'll offer both or a Hybrid HD Universal Optical Drive that can write both plus all the old formats.

Damek
Mar 20, 2007, 02:40 PM
1. Ummm....no, this is geared more towards the pro crowd.

You didn't even read my full sentence, let alone my full post. I said they'd likely update them before the NAB event. I've seen them do such things in the past. No need to make a brouhaha over minor hardware bumps, so they sometimes do such updates a week or two before some other announcement.

I clearly said elsewhere in the post that NAB was a pro event and wouldn't see anything non-pro given much attention.

studiomusic
Mar 20, 2007, 02:41 PM
Lights: new MacLite LED studio lights. For the discerning professional.
Camera: Apple/Red partnership. 4k for ev-er-y-bo-day!
Apple: Apple branches off into produce...

I was there when they introduced FCP HD and Motion. On sunday! They updated ibooks during that week too.

lazyrighteye
Mar 20, 2007, 02:42 PM
Lights: LED Backlights...

Camera: New iSights or built-in display models, New FCP

?: New mac?

My guesses.

Given venue & invite wording, I say FCP.
Which should have strong ties to Leopard, yes?

chubad
Mar 20, 2007, 02:50 PM
Final Cut Studio 6.

Possibly Shake 2.

Final Cut Studio Extreme. Probably the 8 core MacPro to run it on.

If Final Cut needs Leopard expect only an announcement with the software available "Spring" 2007. ;)

p0intblank
Mar 20, 2007, 02:51 PM
There is no doubt Apple will introduce the newest version of Final Cut Pro. Hopefully they update Final Cut Express, as well. I just purchased a copy, but I'd be willing to update if the new features are worth it. :)

odedia
Mar 20, 2007, 02:57 PM
"Lights, Camera, Apple"?

This has Final Cut Studio 6 written all over it :D

daneoni
Mar 20, 2007, 02:57 PM
And Aperture 2.

Yeah

gugy
Mar 20, 2007, 02:57 PM
Since it's a NAB event, It would suggest professional stuff for Film/Video professionals.

so, very likely:
FCP
FC Studio apps
Shake
Logic
maybe a new app for the same professionals

good chance:
Mac Pro Octo-Core (shipping after Leopard)
Displays

Maybe:
iSight
FCP Extreme
MBP

very unlikely / not happening:
Leopard
iLife
iWork
iPods
720p iTunes movies and shows.

Westside guy
Mar 20, 2007, 03:00 PM
And Aperture 2.

At the National Association of Broadcasters? Why would they do that?

daneoni
Mar 20, 2007, 03:10 PM
At the National Association of Broadcasters? Why would they do that?

Even broadcasters play with images i guess.

colenbjw
Mar 20, 2007, 03:18 PM
This can mean only one thing: Finally, a mac tablet.

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 03:19 PM
I agree about the Final Cut Studio. I believe there will be an announcement
regarding Final Cut Extreme that will not just be incredible software, but
also include some sort of hardware such as an accelerator board or some sort of I/O hardware.
Will probably include a new version of Shake with FC Extreme. I'll bet we see Leopard, and
new MacPros prior to that, probably the same day as CS3 is announced (March 27th).


I agree.

FCP/FCS
FCE/Shake/Logic

Related to FCE, dedicated graphics board, probable external PCI solution, probable new RAID.

MacPro Octo announced, shipping a bit later.
Probably an announce prior to or at this event of the Mac-Mini or iMac.
Unlikely but possible a 15" MacBook Pro feature bump.
Wouldn't a "new" iMac quad be cool?

I think we have to wait for Leopard and any hardware is 10.4.9 minimum.

Rocketman

oxygen8
Mar 20, 2007, 03:19 PM
would there be a reason to hope for a Logic Pro update @ this event?

4God
Mar 20, 2007, 03:29 PM
You didn't even read my full sentence, let alone my full post. I said they'd likely update them before the NAB event. I've seen them do such things in the past. No need to make a brouhaha over minor hardware bumps, so they sometimes do such updates a week or two before some other announcement.

I clearly said elsewhere in the post that NAB was a pro event and wouldn't see anything non-pro given much attention.

My apologies, I just the the word mini and went crazy. :)

nateDEEZY
Mar 20, 2007, 03:30 PM
I Registered Last Week And Wasn't Invited. I Have My Ticket Printed Out. I'm also pre-registered for the expo. But the $300 in gas and/or motel expense, depending on which vehicle I took, I would have to spend to get there and back is going to keep me from going thanks to the internet.

LOL, I'm on the INTERNET!

Hi Mom!

Congratulations! I mean really though, what's your point? Is this some clever way to boast about how you heard about this even a week ago and had already registered to it and the expo? Then you talk about how it would cost you $300 or more, depending on which (of the many) vehicle(s) you (would) drive.

I don't get it.

So now are you blaming the internet you are no longer special? Thus making the event/expo not worth the $300 or so it would cost to get there and back?

Or

You're just saying it cost to much to go? My guess is it's the first one, because of the addition of "thanks to the internet."

My guess, again, is that you are probably one of the handful that would vote this as negative news?

But hey, these are just guesses I don't want to ASS-U-ME.

4God
Mar 20, 2007, 03:30 PM
would there be a reason to hope for a Logic Pro update @ this event?

Probably see that at MusikMesse later this month.

brucku
Mar 20, 2007, 03:32 PM
I predict no new computers till Leopard is released. Once that is out we will see a completely new lineup, everything is ready for an upgrade.

You're right.

Things that are due to come out .

1) Leapord
2) Mac Book Pros
3) Ipod
4) Imac
5) Mac Pros
6) FCP

Things I'd like to see but don't expect (not talking about NAB timeline, just things I hope apple will suprise me with this year)

1) New Aperture to leapfrog Adobe's Lightroom
2) Cinema Displays
3) Isight Cameras

Those are my thoughts. I'm due for a MBP but i'm holding out for santa rosa. Seriously I just want announcements and pre-orders. I can wait a few months GIVE ME SPECS !!!!!

yagran
Mar 20, 2007, 03:39 PM
if leopard is released i will **** my pants

4God
Mar 20, 2007, 03:42 PM
if leopard is released i will **** my pants

Well, in a couple of weeks I'll send you some diapers. :D

contractcooker
Mar 20, 2007, 03:42 PM
sweet - an apple event on my birthday. :)

Sweet! An Apple event the day before my birthday!

:D

-- N

lol SWEET! An :apple: event two days before my birthday!

contractcooker
Mar 20, 2007, 03:44 PM
Leopard is finally gonna be released!

I doubt it. I bet this is Final Cut Studio 6... That would be AWESOME :D

contractcooker
Mar 20, 2007, 03:46 PM
I think the 720p downloads are much more likely. Movies maybe, TV shows likely. They may drop some Leopard hints, though.

I'm really curious how they'll price HD content. If they're smart they'll price it the same at the current SD and drop the SD prices. They could really steal any thunder HDDVD and BR have going at this point with a great pricing structure... guess we'll see.

Why not price SD and HD the same? I mean SD is on its way out and HD will soon be the new standard so I don't see why they don't just let those with the technology take advantage of it and those without benefit from smaller DL sizes:D

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 03:49 PM
well full screen ipod could be good for watching shows and stuff hence relevant to broadcasting.Would also be cool if it had wifi lol for some lovely wireless streaming...

That would be nice, but not at NAB expo, or rather, that's highly unlikely for this event. I don't remember Apple ever introducing any new or updated consumer products or consumer services at a professional convention/expo.

For NAB expos, the announced software updates have been limited to their pro video software and the associated apps (what's now in FCS, and Shake), and the only hardware I remember them updating or introducing at NAB is the pro computers, in the past, PowerBook & PowerMac (IIRC, both updated NAB05), now MacBook Pro (17" intro'd at NAB06) and Mac Pro (I'm speculating for this year's event).

I'm not saying it won't happen, but it helps to temper the expectations by carefully watching Apple's track record with regards to product announcements.

Anyway, I'll be at the NAB expo, but it looks like I'll be there a day late.

contractcooker
Mar 20, 2007, 03:50 PM
I predict no new computers till Leopard is released. Once that is out we will see a completely new lineup, everything is ready for an upgrade.

I hope you're right about this. As much as I want a new mac right now my MBP is doing quite well by me at the moment. I think It would be amazing to see Final Cut Studio 6 now, Leopard sometime in May and then a COMPLETE overhaul of all the systems (or at least the pro line) at the WWDC in June. That would be ridiculous!! Imagine an event where 2 (or more) new systems were introduced. Talk about a rush!! lol I think it's sad that new apple products make me so happy. I guess i'm the ultimate consumer.

that's all:apple:

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 03:54 PM
I Registered Last Week And Wasn't Invited. I Have My Ticket Printed Out. I'm also pre-registered for the expo.... is going to keep me from going thanks...

I'll go for you MM. I live closer and I promise to ask an Apple rep when they are going to come out with a product inspired by Bucky.

Rocketman

contractcooker
Mar 20, 2007, 03:58 PM
Apple normally likes to get ahead of the game but I think the battle between blu-ray and HD-DVD is too close to call for them to fully support one format but i would love to see a high-def format in a Mac! :p

I believe that apple is on the board of directors for the blu-ray format. Seems like they've already chosen a side.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/18/bluray/index.php

that's it:apple:

syklee26
Mar 20, 2007, 04:05 PM
what about the new iMacs suggested by AI? the one with new design.

eh...probably not.

i am going with new displays (HDMI compatible) and Mac Pro. FCS is a certainty.


you know what? finally nobody is saying Powerbook G5.

AppleMan101
Mar 20, 2007, 04:07 PM
I believe that apple is on the board of directors for the blu-ray format. Seems like they've already chosen a side.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/18/bluray/index.php

that's it:apple:

afaiaa, apple are visbibly contributing to both formats, i cant be bothered to find the evidence to back this up, but it is there if you look for it.

we're still wondering who'll be beta-maxed.



what about the new iMacs suggested by AI? the one with new design.

eh...probably not.

i am going with new displays (HDMI compatible) and Mac Pro. FCS is a certainty.


you know what? finally nobody is saying Powerbook G5.


no, it's too old now. They're guna release a PowerBook G5 TABLET

iW00t
Mar 20, 2007, 04:13 PM
I'm also curious about people who are crying for Leopard to show up so they can get a new something or other.

Why? Do you really want your brand-spankin-new hardware to come with a fresh *.0 OS, complete with bleeding edge bugs? When you could get brand-spankin-new hardware with Tiger whose troubles are largely worked out by now, enjoy it for half a year, and buy Leopard in the fall/winter after it's had a few months to have any of its own major problems ironed out.


What silly arguments, by that same token "Do you want to buy spanking new Rev A hardware?"

Apple doesn't care. They will do what it takes to maximize sales. If you think people will hold back just because of the .0 software release you must be living on a different rock.

1. You are going to buy it eventually, who else you buying from? Dell?
2. Even if it is buggy, so what? Just download updates for it.

jaymeebuoy
Mar 20, 2007, 04:16 PM
The invitation graphics are built with the same balck background with colored lens flares as all Final Cut Studio box slip covers.

I hope they fixed the media manger!

corywoolf
Mar 20, 2007, 04:19 PM
NAB = National Association of Broadcasters
I went to the one in NYC last fall, it is all professionals that network with each other and look at the new and upcoming technology from companies (incase you didn't already know).

What is for sure:

- New Final Cut Studio
- New Mac Pros, topping out with 8 cores, starting with 4 cores

Possible:

- New Cinema Displays
- Final Cut Express Update
- iLife '07
- iWork '07
- New Mac Pros including a bundled iSight w/ built in IR receiver + Remote

Unlikely:

- New MacBook Pro's
- New iMacs
- New iSight + Remote combo

corywoolf
Mar 20, 2007, 04:24 PM
I hope you're right about this. As much as I want a new mac right now my MBP is doing quite well by me at the moment. I think It would be amazing to see Final Cut Studio 6 now, Leopard sometime in May and then a COMPLETE overhaul of all the systems (or at least the pro line) at the WWDC in June. That would be ridiculous!! Imagine an event where 2 (or more) new systems were introduced. Talk about a rush!! lol I think it's sad that new apple products make me so happy. I guess i'm the ultimate consumer.

that's all:apple:

Or they could just announce the Mac Pro's at NAB along with FCS and have them shipping right after the Leopard release? :rolleyes:

inkswamp
Mar 20, 2007, 04:31 PM
lol SWEET! An :apple: event two days before my birthday!

Sweet! An :apple: event 7 months and 19 days before my birthday! :p

gugy
Mar 20, 2007, 04:33 PM
Possible:

- New Cinema Displays
- Final Cut Express Update
- iLife '07
- iWork '07
- New Mac Pros including a bundled iSight w/ built in IR receiver + Remote


Why do you think iLife and iWork will be announce there?
These are consumer apps and there is no relationship at all to professionals and film and video folks.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 04:36 PM
I believe that apple is on the board of directors for the blu-ray format. Seems like they've already chosen a side.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/18/bluray/index.php

that's it:apple:

Apple is a member of the DVD Forum and joined the BDA BoD because they plan to support both with authoring tools.

If some of you followed video a bit closer you'd have known that DVD Studio Pro 4 has supported a basic subset of HD DVD (MPEG2, 15GB images) authoring. Also of note the DVD SP 4 update to 4.1.2 adds support for h.264 and improves the muxing and adds Dolby Digital encoding as well.

Apple is clearly in both camps for good reason. It makes more financial sense. I expect them to add Blu-ray authoring and beef up HD DVD authoring at NAB.

johnee
Mar 20, 2007, 04:39 PM
Apple is a member of the DVD Forum and joined the BDA BoD because they plan to support both with authoring tools.

If some of you followed video a bit closer you'd have known that DVD Studio Pro 4 has supported a basic subset of HD DVD (MPEG2, 15GB images) authoring. Also of note the DVD SP 4 update to 4.1.2 adds support for h.264 and improves the muxing and adds Dolby Digital encoding as well.

Apple is clearly in both camps for good reason. It makes more financial sense. I expect them to add Blu-ray authoring and beef up HD DVD authoring at NAB.

agreed

digitalbiker
Mar 20, 2007, 04:43 PM
Or they could just announce the Mac Pro's at NAB along with FCS and have them shipping right after the Leopard release? :rolleyes:


I doubt Apple will delay sales of Mac Pro just for Leopard.

Apple in the past would just release the hardware if it is ready and include an upgrade coupon for newer OS if it was going to be coming out in the next month or so. That way Apple gets all of the sales immediately and people aren't on the fence waiting for Leopard before they buy hardware.

Dell and others have had Octo systems available since January. Apple had the luxury of keeping a slower than industry update cycle in the past because there was no real way to measure hardware performance issues without getting into the PPC vs. x86 debate.

However now that Apple is x86 they do have to attempt to keep somewhat competitive. They do not neccesarily have to be first out with the new hardware but they surely don't want to be known as being 6 months to a year behind the rest of the industry.

inkswamp
Mar 20, 2007, 04:44 PM
LOL, I'm on the INTERNET!

Hi Mom!

Congratulations! I mean really though, what's your point? Is this some clever way to boast about how you heard about this even a week ago and had already registered to it and the expo?

As long as I have been on MacRumors, the site has been about enthusiasm for the Mac platform. I just read his post as being very enthusiastic and wanting to share that with everyone. He's right to do so. I don't appreciate you trying to douse that or being rude--something that I see very little of on MR and would like to keep it that way.

If you want to mock or flame people, try Fark. This is not the right place for it.

RedTomato
Mar 20, 2007, 04:49 PM
I Registered Last Week And Wasn't Invited. I Have My Ticket Printed Out. I'm also pre-registered for the expo. But the $300 in gas and/or motel expense, depending on which vehicle I took, I would have to spend to get there and back is going to keep me from going thanks to the internet.

LOL, I'm on the INTERNET!

Hi Mom!

Congratulations! I mean really though, what's your point? Is this some clever way to boast about how you heard about this even a week ago and had already registered to it and the expo? Then you talk about how it would cost you $300 or more, depending on which (of the many) vehicle(s) you (would) drive.


Hmm. I know Multimedia types in a rather odd way.

But do you know that you're patronising someone who hung out with Buckminister Fuller, Steve Jobs, Alan Toffler, and probably the Woz too?

http://www2.blogger.com/profile/00685195225802794289

He was using Apples before most of us were out of short trousers, and no doubt the rarefied atmosphere around all these creative genuises has has a certain effect on him :)

Nevertheless, he deserves our respect and acceptance.

oxygen8
Mar 20, 2007, 04:52 PM
Probably see that at MusikMesse later this month.

apple does not have a booth @ MusikMesse. so can i get excited about Logic Pro now?

Chupa Chupa
Mar 20, 2007, 04:55 PM
I doubt Apple will delay sales of Mac Pro just for Leopard.


That would depend on how Apple engineered it. Very well might be the next MP was engineered around Leopard's 64-bit support and that it CAN'T run on anything lower than 10.5. I agree that Apple or any company would not delay a product for the sake of delaying it, but I suspect there are legit reasons why we won't see actual product until Leopard goes GM at the earliest.

GanleyBurger
Mar 20, 2007, 05:00 PM
What about music software at NAB? :confused:

Will we see the release of Logic Pro 8 in the near future?:eek:

Will they ever drop a quad chip into the 17" MacBook Pro?:eek:

Sorry, but the release of the new TV didn't do it for me... :(

Peace
Mar 20, 2007, 05:03 PM
What about music software at NAB? :confused:

Will we see the release of Logic Pro 8 in the near future?:eek:

Will they ever drop a quad chip into the 17" MacBook Pro?:eek:

Sorry, but the release of the new TV didn't do it for me... :(

Stick around.It's going to be a VERY busy next couple of months for Apple,Inc.

DrGonzo2121
Mar 20, 2007, 05:06 PM
As long as I have been on MacRumors, the site has been about enthusiasm for the Mac platform. I just read his post as being very enthusiastic and wanting to share that with everyone. He's right to do so. I don't appreciate you trying to douse that or being rude--something that I see very little of on MR and would like to keep it that way.

If you want to mock or flame people, try Fark. This is not the right place for it.

I concurr. Multimedia is one of the most dedicated posters here. At least his post related to the event, whereas yours was just an uncalled for bitch trip

zap2
Mar 20, 2007, 05:10 PM
Lets go Apple...the whole Mac and iPod line up is a bit "stale" iPod shuffle is fine and Nano, but the Mini, Pro, and iPod 5.5G are all a bit dated. Plus 10.5 , iWork and iLife would be nice!


And then you can slowly update MacBook and MacBook Pro, and by MidMay hopefully a new iMac design

Multimedia
Mar 20, 2007, 05:15 PM
LOL, I'm on the INTERNET! Hi Mom! Congratulations! I mean really though, what's your point? Is this some clever way to boast about how you heard about this even a week ago and had already registered to it and the expo? Then you talk about how it would cost you $300 or more, depending on which (of the many) vehicle(s) you (would) drive. I don't get it.

So now are you blaming the internet you are no longer special? Thus making the event/expo not worth the $300 or so it would cost to get there and back?

Or

You're just saying it cost to much to go? My guess is it's the first one, because of the addition of "thanks to the internet."

My guess, again, is that you are probably one of the handful that would vote this as negative news?

But hey, these are just guesses I don't want to ASS-U-ME.Yeah you read it backwards. Guessed 100% wrong. I wasn't blaming the internet. I was thanking the internet LITERALLY - NOT SARCASM. :eek: Because of the Internet we don't really need to go to these shows anymore like I did full time in the 90's. So I meant it as a good thing.

It's the latter - the expense I'd rather not incurr.

Negative news? Now you've really got me stumped. What is negative about anything happening here? Are you Kidding? This is one of the most POSITIVE times in the history of the Mac. You certainly did totally misinterpret my meanings. :rolleyes:

I am now asking anyone here who is going if I may please sleep on your floor? I can drive my 40mpg car for about $120 RT. $300 was gas for my RV which I deem too much. Would anyone entertain letting me sleep on your floor there?

If so please PM me. Thanks.

GanleyBurger
Mar 20, 2007, 05:16 PM
Don't be haters... but... I just don't get Steve Jobs... it is one thing to build healthy tension; it is another thing to be so mysterious that you leave your Mac Computer fans hanging.

At least Spectrasonics has a page dedicated to its users who are looking for the day that Trilogy Bass and Atmosphere will be Universal compatible. The president addresses questions and tells die-hards to be patient, that updates are taking time, but it will pay off in the end.

I'll be really upset if it takes until September 07 to update the 24" imacs or 17" MBPs. :mad:

Multimedia
Mar 20, 2007, 05:25 PM
Don't be haters... but... I just don't get Steve Jobs... it is one thing to build healthy tension; it is another thing to be so mysterious that you leave your Mac Computer fans hanging.

At least Spectrasonics has a page dedicated to its users who are looking for the day that Trilogy Bass and Atmosphere will be Universal compatible. The president addresses questions and tells die-hards to be patient, that updates are taking time, but it will pay off in the end.

I'll be really upset if it takes until September 07 to update the 24" imacs or 17" MBPs. :mad:Well then you won't be upset at all 'cause it's all comin' together this Spring. Spring begins in two hours ladies & gentlemen. Don't Worry. Be Happy. :)

shikimo
Mar 20, 2007, 05:25 PM
I'm also curious about people who are crying for Leopard to show up so they can get a new something or other.

Why? Do you really want your brand-spankin-new hardware to come with a fresh *.0 OS, complete with bleeding edge bugs? When you could get brand-spankin-new hardware with Tiger whose troubles are largely worked out by now, enjoy it for half a year, and buy Leopard in the fall/winter after it's had a few months to have any of its own major problems ironed out.

I'm hopin' they update the minis (and whatever other hardware needs a bump), let me enjoy it on solid Tiger, release Leopard in summer and let all the early adopters bang their heads against it, and then I can get Tiger in Nov/Dec when it's more stable and it's clear what it can do.

No matter what anyone says, this is a perfectly valid way to approach computer purchasing for 99% of consumers, and one has to be pretty shortsighted to deny it. That's no dig on people who like the brand new stuff right now; in fact, the rest of us learn a lot from them...but I too like stable system software, and Leopard will be just as new to me six months later.

Probably see that at MusikMesse later this month.

Don't forget that the main rumor regarding the release of Logic at MusicMesse was originally posted in a French blog (one with a decent track record), mistranslated, and spread across the English-language Mac-web with the exact opposite message of the original text: i.e. the blogger wrote quite clearly that he knows for sure Logic will NOT be released at MusikMesse.

I don't know #$@% about the quality of this rumor one way or the other, but I can say for sure that a whole lot of people got really excited over a poorly-done computer translation :D .

To anybody who wants French blogs or rumors or anything else properly translated: I work cheap!! :cool:

4God
Mar 20, 2007, 05:26 PM
apple does not have a booth @ MusikMesse. so can i get excited about Logic Pro now?

Really? See post #16: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=283715

lazyrighteye
Mar 20, 2007, 05:26 PM
afaiaa, apple are visbibly contributing to both formats, i cant be bothered to find the evidence to back this up, but it is there if you look for it.

we're still wondering who'll be beta-maxed.
[/B]

Blu-ray is dead.
Why?
The adult film industry is adopting HD since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray.
Game over.
HD wins.

Sex sells.
Always has, always will.

Reach
Mar 20, 2007, 05:28 PM
apple does not have a booth @ MusikMesse. so can i get excited about Logic Pro now?

Oh no?
Musikkmesse exhibitor-listing (http://musik.messefrankfurt.com/frankfurt/en/home_exhbsearch_list.html?exh_name=apple&exh_prod_cat1=&exh_place=&exh_country=&exh_pc=&exh_city=&x=0&y=0)
Apples event listing, look from 28th to 31st (http://www.apple.com/de/events/)

4God
Mar 20, 2007, 05:33 PM
.......Don't forget that the main rumor regarding the release of Logic at MusicMesse was originally posted in a French blog (one with a decent track record), mistranslated, and spread across the English-language Mac-web with the exact opposite message of the original text: i.e. the blogger wrote quite clearly that he knows for sure Logic will NOT be released at MusikMesse.

I don't know #$@% about the quality of this rumor one way or the other, but I can say for sure that a whole lot of people got really excited over a poorly-done computer translation :D .......

I'm sorry, what is your point?:confused:

Multimedia
Mar 20, 2007, 05:37 PM
Blu-ray is dead. Why? The adult film industry is adopting HD since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray. Game over.
HD wins. Sex sells. Always has, always will.Perhaps. But while I see and agree with your point that sex sells, Blu-ray is being rapidly integrated into professional video production workflows including inside HD camcorders as well as the archive medium for HDD HD camcorders. So I'm not sure you can consider Blu-ray "dead" yet. It's so early in the game, can't tell. Hybrid Optical Drives are being developed for both the professional and consumer markets that may let both co-exhist. So it may be possible that both formats survive. HD for Sex and Blu-ray for families.

Laslo Panaflex
Mar 20, 2007, 05:44 PM
Perhaps. But while I see and agree with your point that sex sells, Blu-ray is being rapidly integrated into professional video production workflows including inside HD camcorders as well as the archive medium for HDD HD camcorders. So I'm not sure you can consider Blu-ray "dead" yet. It's so early in the game, can't tell. Hybrid Optical Drives are being developed for both the professional and consumer markets that may let both co-exhist. So it may be possible that both formats survive. HD for Sex and Blu-ray for families.

Why anyone would archive to expensive and slow optical media like blu-ray and HDDVD when hard drive storage is so cheap is beyond me. Blu-ray and HDDVD are for content distribution, pure and simple.

Cult Follower
Mar 20, 2007, 05:45 PM
here's hoping there will be something unexpected.(not photography or video related):rolleyes:

Multimedia
Mar 20, 2007, 05:48 PM
Why anyone would archive to expensive and slow optical media like blu-ray and HDDVD when hard drive storage is so cheap is beyond me. Blu-ray and HDDVD are for content distribution, pure and simple.HDDs are mechanical and fail. So we can't leave our master footage on HDDs. It must be more permanent like video tape or optical media. So we pay more for that permanence and longevity.

I can understand why someone as young as you may not have thought about that yet Laslo.

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 05:55 PM
Perhaps. But while I see and agree with your point that sex sells, Blu-ray is being rapidly integrated into professional video production workflows including inside HD camcorders as well as the archive medium for HDD HD camcorders. So I'm not sure you can consider Blu-ray "dead" yet. It's so early in the game, can't tell. Hybrid Optical Drives are being developed for both the professional and consumer markets that may let both co-exhist. So it may be possible that both formats survive. HD for Sex and Blu-ray for families.

On a business channel I saw someone who was a Blu-Ray advocate specifically state that not only is BR used in X but in the largest single X producer and the rumors of BR's avoidance from X were exaggerated.

He did not say however BR was being adopted overall more than HD-DVD. The indies in that trade really set the trends. If Apple were to make low cost indy production with a BR centric workflow easy that would change things substantially.

Rocketman

gugy
Mar 20, 2007, 05:57 PM
True, keep master footage on HDD is suicide. You have to have at least another drive with a copy of it for additional safety.
Too much money goes into shooting to rely on a $100 to $400 hard drive.

not saying blu-ray or hd-dvd are safe proof, but for longevity I think they are more reliable than HDDs.
tapes are good way to go.

macinfojunkie
Mar 20, 2007, 05:57 PM
You won't see anything at NAB except an updated iPod Hi Fi!

:p

Queso
Mar 20, 2007, 06:01 PM
He did not say however BR was being adopted overall more than HD-DVD. The indies in that trade really set the trends. If Apple were to make low cost indy production with a BR centric workflow easy that would change things substantially.
Lights, Camera, :apple:

HD-DVD is a Microsoft standard. Don't know if you've read the Roughlydrafted (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/5F0C866C-6DDF-4A9A-9515-531B0CA0C29C.html) article about Gates and Co's attempts to kill off QuickTime leading to Apple having to buy and release Final Cut Pro just to stay relevant in broadcasting, but I'll be very surprised if Cupertino jump into bed with Redmond on that one.

studiomusic
Mar 20, 2007, 06:05 PM
Blu-ray is dead.
Why?
The adult film industry is adopting HD since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray.
Game over.
HD wins.

Sex sells.
Always has, always will.

VHS won with porn. But, you couldn't get decent (or indecent as the case may be) porn in your home before VHS unless you had a projector, screen and a can of film that easily broke or melted with any jam. Don't even talk about discreet sound...
Now, porn is VERY easy to get (so they tell me:) ...) on the internet instantly.
Porn will not be a factor in this battle.
Blu-ray wins with a cooler 'hip' name.

Vinxi
Mar 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
Hey Guys, what about a 15,4" MacBook?

Remember this rumor?
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20061026PR206.html

Alpinism
Mar 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
FCP6 and/or updated FCS

FCSXtreme

mac pro line,

2.66 ghz 2 gig ram std, radeon x1900 : base model
3 ghz 2 gig ram std, radeon x1900, blue ray burner
8 core top line MAC PRO thats gonna make you bleed.

now, i dont think Leopard is going to be out. If leopard is out, it will take the thunder during the Developers convention. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT APPLE, GIVE US A BREAK ! AT LEAST OFFER FREE UPGRADE TO LEOPARD WHENVER IT COMES OUT !
What ?? $2.00 for 802.11n unlocking ?? .... :apple:

ppnkg
Mar 20, 2007, 06:11 PM
I predict no new computers till Leopard is released. Once that is out we will see a completely new lineup, everything is ready for an upgrade.

I completely agree. And since Leopard is not ready yet, and apple is not telling us yet who is going to speak at the event, I'm expecting something trivial.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 06:12 PM
Lights, Camera, :apple:

HD-DVD is a Microsoft standard. Don't know if you've read the Roughlydrafted (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/5F0C866C-6DDF-4A9A-9515-531B0CA0C29C.html) article about Gates and Co's attempts to kill off QuickTime leading to Apple having to buy and release Final Cut Pro just to stay relevant in broadcasting, but I'll be very surprised if Cupertino jump into bed with Redmond on that one.

HD DVD is "not" a Microsoft standard. It was created by Toshiba (official disc name is Advanced Optical Disc...AOD) Microsoft supplies the VC-1 codec on both platforms and they have teamed with Broadcom to use Windows CE and Broadcom LSI to create a Reference platform but that's the extent of their ownership in HD DVD.

Apple will gladly support both formats as long as there are markets for the finished product. They have absolutely no reason to choose sides unless losing potential revenue/profits is something they are keen on.

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 06:13 PM
I Registered Last Week And Wasn't Invited. I Have My Ticket Printed Out. I'm also pre-registered for the expo. But the $300 in gas and/or motel expense, depending on which vehicle I took, I would have to spend to get there and back is going to keep me from going thanks to the internet.

I am registered and holding a ticket as well. The bonus for me is that I already live here in vegas, so shouldnt be a problem to get down to the Venetian for the event. I got an RSVP email, so hopefully there are no issues when I show up to the event.

I have not pre-registered for the NAB expo itself yet though... perhaps I should go check it out. CES this year was a bit overcrowded for my taste.

iBunny
Mar 20, 2007, 06:16 PM
im sure its already been said, but I project the Quad Core "Revolutionary" iMacs to be released on this day.

digitalbiker
Mar 20, 2007, 06:19 PM
That would depend on how Apple engineered it. Very well might be the next MP was engineered around Leopard's 64-bit support and that it CAN'T run on anything lower than 10.5. I agree that Apple or any company would not delay a product for the sake of delaying it, but I suspect there are legit reasons why we won't see actual product until Leopard goes GM at the earliest.


Possibly but I doubt it. Already I have seen some reports of others replacing the current intel dual core CPU's with intel quad cores and they were able to get OS X up and running. Tiger already supports 64 bit for the other 64 bt intel processors.

Leopard new features such as core animation, updated finder, etc are OS related but not required for octo support. Granted Leopard maybe able to take advantage of 64 bit hardware better but that doesn't mean that 64 bit hardware can't run under Tiger.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 06:20 PM
im sure its already been said, but I project the Quad Core "Revolutionary" iMacs to be released on this day.

Why would Apple release a Quad Core iMac (consumer computer) at the National Association of Broadcasters?

They could easily just announce the new iMac on it's own seperate date. NAB is about the type of hardware and software that appeals to someone in the Broadcasting industry. Mac Pro could capture some attention but what people are looking for is what Apple's done with the latest Final Cut Studio.

Apple may as well ride Adobe's wave and announce the Mac Pros on March 27th along with the CS3 webcast. That would do more to sell Mac Pros than announcing them at NAB.

zioxide
Mar 20, 2007, 06:22 PM
Blu-ray has outsold HD-DVD so far this year a lot. This is probably partly due to the fact that PS3 has the blu-ray built in. Some people may bitch about PS3 and Blu-ray, but the fact is that Sony has put over a million blu-ray players in homes, and that's more than HD-DVD.

Also, Apple is on the Blu-ray board of directors, so I think they are more likely to add Blu-ray support before HD-DVD.

The only thing that is keeping HD-DVD alive is Universal Studios' support of it. Once they realize Blu-ray has more customers, they'll switch or at least start releasing both, and that will be the final nail in the coffin.

As far as NAB, we'll see Final Cut Studio 6 and possibly Final Cut Express 4. This will be the main thing, and I see a huge revision for Final Cut since it's been two years since Final Cut 5. Native 5.1 surround sound, better media management, better HD support
There may also be Mac Pro and Cinema Display revisions.
No Shake because Apple said Shake is being discontinued for a new digital compositing project due out next year codenamed 'Phenomenon'.
Possibly the Final Cut Extreme edit suite.

digitalbiker
Mar 20, 2007, 06:29 PM
Blu-ray has outsold HD-DVD so far this year a lot. This is probably partly due to the fact that PS3 has the blu-ray built in. Some people may bitch about PS3 and Blu-ray, but the fact is that Sony has put over a million blu-ray players in homes, and that's more than HD-DVD.

Also, Apple is on the Blu-ray board of directors, so I think they are more likely to add Blu-ray support before HD-DVD.

The only thing that is keeping HD-DVD alive is Universal Studios' support of it. Once they realize Blu-ray has more customers, they'll switch or at least start releasing both, and that will be the final nail in the coffin.

Lately, I have noticed how most new movie DVD releases also seem to be simultaneously released on Blue-Ray. I haven't seen nearly as much HD-DVD content released. I am pretty sure it is directly related to the PS3 as a lot of these releases are from a Sony studio.

Vinxi
Mar 20, 2007, 06:31 PM
Hey Guys, what about a 15,4" MacBook?

Remember this rumor?
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20061026PR206.html

AppleIntelRock
Mar 20, 2007, 06:31 PM
its clear its fcs isn't it?
c'mon people, look at the invite...

;) ;) ;) :p ;)

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 06:31 PM
Blu-ray has outsold HD-DVD so far this year a lot. This is probably partly due to the fact that PS3 has the blu-ray built in. Some people may bitch about PS3 and Blu-ray, but the fact is that Sony has put over a million blu-ray players in homes, and that's more than HD-DVD.

Also, Apple is on the Blu-ray board of directors, so I think they are more likely to add Blu-ray support before HD-DVD.

The only thing that is keeping HD-DVD alive is Universal Studios' support of it. Once they realize Blu-ray has more customers, they'll switch or at least start releasing both, and that will be the final nail in the coffin.

I think the PS3 Blu-Ray drive is key. I typically consider myself an early adopter, but even still was on the fence regarding HD formats until the PS3 came out. I now have a PS3 (which is freaking awsome btw) and thus several blu-ray movies in the movie library. PS3 integration is going to be very good for blu-ray overall, and a much more succesful than the XBox "buy the add-on" modality for the HD-DVD drive.

Stridder44
Mar 20, 2007, 06:37 PM
Why anyone would archive to expensive and slow optical media like blu-ray and HDDVD when hard drive storage is so cheap is beyond me. Blu-ray and HDDVD are for content distribution, pure and simple.


Yes because there's nothing more reliable than a noisy, part-moving HDD. Yes it is content distribution. That's why it works. Mom X and Teen A aren't going to want to connect this computer to that computer to that TV just to watch a movie. They're going to love putting a disc inside a player. It's the same reason people buy actual CD's over buying songs off of iTunes. Sometimes they just want something more than an e-receipt and a bunch of compressed data. Not everyone wants your "I've got every movie I own on my computer" idea.

Stridder44
Mar 20, 2007, 06:38 PM
Blu-ray is dead.
Why?
The adult film industry is adopting HD since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray.
Game over.
HD wins.

Sex sells.
Always has, always will.


And the PS3 has a blu-ray drive built in. It may not be the #1 selling console but it's sure as hell pushing units. There's more than just the porn industry in the world.

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 06:41 PM
HD-DVD is "technically better" ever so slightly. BR has adoption by machine sellers on its side. PS3 to the point they could not make blue lasers fast enough, Apple who is a mass-market consumer and media company. On some level BR has a few legs up. People buy discs to play on what they have.

Betamax was "better" than VHS, but VHS player sales initially did better because of increased commissions on hardware sales at stores "like" Pacific Stereo. Once the adoption trend was set, publishers saw increased demand for titles published on VHS vs Betamax. After a while they phased out Betamax titles.

Hey MM, you are not the only old man here :) You do take a bit of getting used to. . . .

When the quad iMac is released is not particularly relevant. It will run CS3 great and FCP just fine unless you are a really heavy user of effects, which 98% of people are not. I wonder if it will have a built-in Infiniband I/O? :)

NAB folks need upscale MacPros with upscale add-in cards and upscale storage and upscale FC software. (I should have said FCX for Xtreme in my first post not FCE which should be used for Express).

This an exceptionally important show for Apple IMHO.

Rocketman

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 06:43 PM
Yes because there's nothing more reliable than a noisy, part-moving HDD. Yes it is content distribution. That's why it works. Mom X and Teen A aren't going to want to connect this computer to that computer to that TV just to watch a movie. They're going to love putting a disc inside a player. It's the same reason people buy actual CD's over buying songs off of iTunes. Sometimes they just want something more than an e-receipt and a bunch of compressed data. Not everyone wants your "I've got every movie I own on my computer" idea.

The future is not CDs or platter-spinning hard drives. The future is solid-state drives, like this one (http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1520) recently announced by SanDisk. Prices on these solid-state drives will be at parity with current hard drive prices within 1 - 2 years.

Alpinism
Mar 20, 2007, 06:46 PM
The 4k capable Red One will begin delivering their products during NAB. All of the pre-order slots have been filled. The cam is not for everyone but it is considered a real "bargain" for those in the "Pro" industry. What would be a better way to capture your client base right on the same NAB show.

"The Red One can record 11.4 Megapixel (4520x2540 pixel) high definition images at 4:4:4 color sampling. That resolution goes well beyond any HD camcorders available today and enters the realm of digital cinema cameras that are used to replace film."

Not to mention all those square feet land space, it is perfect to demo the new FCSX with both hardware and software integration for both audio and video. Finally a real "Apple PRO Studio" to offer these potential "red" clients before they seek out Avid Pro System.

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 06:46 PM
If you think people will hold back just because of the .0 software release you must be living on a different rock.

1. You are going to buy it eventually, who else you buying from? Dell?
2. Even if it is buggy, so what? Just download updates for it.

That argument doesn't work. You can't "just download updates" until they are available. One can wait before buying a copy of Leopard. No one has to go lemming over Leopard. Personally, I was quite disappointed with Tiger, it's going to take more to convince me to pay for Leopard.

For paying work, I wouldn't recommend depending on x.x.0 software of any brand, even Apple's. It's always a good idea to wait a few months, make sure that it's stable, if not, wait until an update fixes the particular problems.

diamond3
Mar 20, 2007, 06:50 PM
oh boy. it's gotta be leopard and new mac pros.

i noticed the cnd refurb site has been unindated! It hasn't listed this many items (tons of macbooks too) in months.

months!

gotta be clearing the inventory.

oh boy! :)

One might think after looking at the refurb site the day before when there was nothing that there would be an update today or sometime soon. There was maybe 5 items total besides apple care of course that you could buy. I had never seen it so depleted..

photomaniac
Mar 20, 2007, 06:51 PM
How come so many here don't realize NAB is a PROFESSIONAL conference meant for video PROFESSIONALS. Apple is not going to announce anything that is purely consumer related. It NEVER has at NAB or any other pro convention. Don't expect anything on the iPod/iTunes, iMac, iLife, iPhone, MacBook front. You'll only end up heartbroken. Also don't expect a Leopard announcement other than how it might integrate with FCP Studio.

Here is what Apple will/might announce:

Final Cut Pro is a no brainer (the FCP box graphic is on the invite. How is that for a giveaway).

8-Core MP is more possible than not. I suspect if the FCP Extreme rumors are true it might require that kind of horsepower. But I'm also betting they won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New MacBook Pros is a 50/50 gamble. Maybe 51/49 in favor of new machines. Also won't ship until Leopard goes GM.

New high res displays for the entire line. Flip a coin, but only if a new MP is announced.

That is is. That is the show. Leopard will have it's own Apple Event. iLife '07 will be unveiled then.

Yep! I think you nailed it!

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 06:53 PM
That argument doesn't work. You can't "just download updates" until they are available. One can wait before buying a copy of Leopard.

For paying work, I wouldn't recommend depending on x.x.0 software of any brand, even Apple's. It's always a good idea to wait a few months, make sure that it's stable, if not, wait until an update fixes the particular problems.

I stronlgy agree. Wait for 10.5.1. You won't have to wait long. As for Microsoft, Apple has them in their sights legitmately for the first time since Steve himself declined Bill's offer to "standardize on the Mac". There may have been some bad strings attached, but I bet another month of negotiations could have solved that. Let's not forget Microsoft was the one who recapitalized Apple when they were down. Yes they made a huge profit on the stock, but they also had the vision.

I predict Office-Mac and MS-Mac Business Unit has legs.

MS missed EVERY internet advance.

Rocketman

Laslo Panaflex
Mar 20, 2007, 06:56 PM
HDDs are mechanical and fail. So we can't leave our master footage on HDDs. It must be more permanent like video tape or optical media. So we pay more for that permanence and longevity.

I can understand why someone as young as you may not have thought about that yet Laslo.

Umm, optical media and tapes are just as likely to fail as hard drives. Have you ever heard of RAID systems and servers, specifically the ones with "parity" that are built to anticipate hard drive failure? For the price of a blu-ray burner and a few blank blu-ray disks you can buy a 2TB raid setup.

I don't know what my age has to do with anything, I was just making a comment on yours about how blu-ray can be used for archival purposes, no need to take it personally.

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 06:56 PM
since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray.

Actually, that's FUD, or at best, a distortion of the truth.

The problem is that companies like Disney require that their replicator not produce porn because they don't want copies "Debbie Does Dallas" to accidentally get mixed in with their kiddy stuff and cause a fiasco, the easiest way to do that is require their replicator not produce porn, so each replicator has to decide if they want to bid on Disney's work or not. BTW: said movie is being released on BRD. It will be easier for them to find replicators when more replicator lines are put into service.

Sony can't prevent the production of adult BRDs, but it may be that they've decided to not do that production themselves with their own production lines.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 06:58 PM
Blu-ray has outsold HD-DVD so far this year a lot. This is probably partly due to the fact that PS3 has the blu-ray built in. Some people may bitch about PS3 and Blu-ray, but the fact is that Sony has put over a million blu-ray players in homes, and that's more than HD-DVD.

Also, Apple is on the Blu-ray board of directors, so I think they are more likely to add Blu-ray support before HD-DVD.

The only thing that is keeping HD-DVD alive is Universal Studios' support of it. Once they realize Blu-ray has more customers, they'll switch or at least start releasing both, and that will be the final nail in the coffin.

As far as NAB, we'll see Final Cut Studio 6 and possibly Final Cut Express 4. This will be the main thing, and I see a huge revision for Final Cut since it's been two years since Final Cut 5. Native 5.1 surround sound, better media management, better HD support
There may also be Mac Pro and Cinema Display revisions.
No Shake because Apple said Shake is being discontinued for a new digital compositing project due out next year codenamed 'Phenomenon'.
Possibly the Final Cut Extreme edit suite.

Neither format is much of a barn burner. HD DVD players will be going down in cost on April 1st which should help. The entry level HD-A2 will have a MSRP of $399 (down from $499) which should mean low $300s street price. I'm certainly taking advantage before July 31st so that I can get my 5 free movies along with the deal. Both formats are headed towards a stalemate. In about 18 months Universal players will hit that playback both movies that are actually affordable (LGs Uni player at $1299 is madness..it's blasphemy!)

Apple hopefully will offer BTO options for recorders from HD DVD and Blu-ray. Let the consumer decide where they want to go. I tell you though a killer feature is HD content on Red Laser discs. A 8.5GB DL disc will hold over an hour of AVC or VC-1 encoded data. That's great for a disc that costs $1.

As far as NAB my guesses are

We see two versions of Final Cut Studio

Basic version

Final Cut Pro 6 (updated LiveType, Cinematools, Compressor)
Motion 3- Adds Z Axis
Soundtrack Pro 2-
DVD Studio Pro 5- adds improved HD DVD authoring and Blu-ray authoring.

Extended
FCP 6
Motion 3
STP 2
DVD SP 5
Shake 4.5
Media Management app- Artbox light (Proximity acquisition)
Color Correction- Final Touch light( Silicon Color acquistion)
XSAN client

These bundles meet two distinct needs. The Basic covers your typical workstation.

Extended is obviously aimed at workgroup stations where multiple editors are working on a project simultaneously.

Also at Musikmesse late this month Apple will announce Logic Pro 8 which will be a huge update and finally LP8 will be a peer application in a Final Cut Pro workflow. So if STP 2 doesn't fit the bill LP8 steps in with perfect roundtrip support.

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 07:01 PM
The future is not CDs or platter-spinning hard drives. The future is solid-state drives, like this one (http://www.sandisk.com/Oem/Default.aspx?CatID=1520) recently announced by SanDisk. Prices on these solid-state drives will be at parity with current hard drive prices within 1 - 2 years.

Assuming prices slide that much, where will hard drive prices be then in 1-2 years? Probably even lower with still much larger capacity. I ran the numbers last week, and I think I calculated that parity would take something like 5-6 years, assuming the current rate of price sliding, based on cost per GB.

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 07:05 PM
"The Red One can record 11.4 Megapixel (4520x2540 pixel) high definition images at 4:4:4 color sampling. That resolution goes well beyond any HD camcorders available today and enters the realm of digital cinema cameras that are used to replace film."

Red isn't claiming 4:4:4 for anything larger than 2k, take a look at their spec sheet.

AFIAK, it's a single sensor CMOS, and it doesn't appear to be something like the Foveon type of sensor. In short, meaning that 4k 4:4:4 is impossible with the current Red One design.

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 07:06 PM
Hey Guys, what about a 15,4" MacBook?

Remember this rumor?
http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20061026PR206.html

Did you need to ask twice, or was that a mistake?

MacBook is a consumer notebook and you shouldn't expect to see Apple to update their consumer devices at a professional show.

contractcooker
Mar 20, 2007, 07:06 PM
I concurr. Multimedia is one of the most dedicated posters here. At least his post related to the event, whereas yours was just an uncalled for bitch trip

I completely agree, He was making a relevant post. You're kinda the one who flamed.

:apple:

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 07:06 PM
Umm, optical media and tapes are just as likely to fail as hard drives. Have you ever heard of RAID systems and servers, specifically the ones with "parity" that are built to anticipate hard drive failure? For the price of a blu-ray burner and a few blank blu-ray disks you can buy a 2TB raid setup.

I don't know what my age has to do with anything, I was just making a comment on yours about how blu-ray can be used for archival purposes, no need to take it personally.

Laslo I agree with you. I don't mind the idea of backing up to Blu-ray but it's also clear that Apple is working on ZFS support in Leopard and ZFS is pretty damn stout with protection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS

This is where I want to go for my storage. Pooled Storage (just add new drives ..no complex volume management needed) checksums and snapshots. No silent corruption and the ability to handle more storage than Bill Gates can afford.

digitalbiker
Mar 20, 2007, 07:29 PM
HD-DVD is "technically better" ever so slightly. Rocketman

Where did you hear that? I have always heard the opposite but I am not an expert. It's just that most of the technical papers I have seen say that using Blue laser with a much shorter wavelength of light than a ruby laser ultimately allows much denser data storage on disk with faster read/write times. Maybe current HD-DVD has a slight spec edge but ultimately I believe the Blue-Ray has much more future development potential.

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 07:30 PM
Assuming prices slide that much, where will hard drive prices be then in 1-2 years? Probably even lower with still much larger capacity. I ran the numbers last week, and I think I calculated that parity would take something like 5-6 years, assuming the current rate of price sliding, based on cost per GB.

The kicker there though is that hard drives are going to hit a floor price soon, where production/material costs no longer allow for the price per Gb to reduce. The promissing tech there being perpendicular drives, though the $ premium on that technology is a bit more than it should be.

All that said, the "killer" factor going for the solid-state drives is the increased reliability, reduced power consumption, and portability. Those factors will push that technology ahead even if there is a bit of a price premium for it.

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 07:32 PM
Where did you hear that? I have always heard the opposite but I am not an expert. It's just that most of the technical papers I have seen say that using Blue laser with a much shorter wavelength of light than a ruby laser ultimately allows much denser data storage on disk with faster read/write times. Maybe current HD-DVD has a slight spec edge but ultimately I believe the Blue-Ray has much more future development potential.


Blu-Ray IS the more advanced technology. The only leg HD-DVD has to stand on is lower production cost.

3D-Troll
Mar 20, 2007, 07:33 PM
Are we going to have coverage on this event like it happened at Macworld in January?

Steffen

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 07:34 PM
Red isn't claiming 4:4:4 for anything larger than 2k, take a look at their spec sheet.

AFIAK, it's a single sensor CMOS, and it doesn't appear to be something like the Foveon type of sensor. In short, meaning that 4k 4:4:4 is impossible with the current Red One design.

http://foveon.com/article.php?a=192

4fps at full resolution vs 24 for RED 60 fps at 2K.

Red has faster data capture capacity. Foveon has FW400 :)

At some point a better CMOS simply is not better.

Rocketman

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 07:37 PM
Where did you hear that? I have always heard the opposite but I am not an expert. It's just that most of the technical papers I have seen say that using Blue laser with a much shorter wavelength of light than a ruby laser ultimately allows much denser data storage on disk with faster read/write times. Maybe current HD-DVD has a slight spec edge but ultimately I believe the Blue-Ray has much more future development potential.

I can't cite my source but it was linked from macrumors. Basicly it has incrementally better audio treatment (allegedly) and a slightly different video treatment, which I am SURE a human could not detect the difference between. HD-DVD is also marginally lower mass-production cost per disc, but if we look at Betamax vs VHS that "spread" will reduce to insignificant after about one year of production for both formats in a mass-market.

Rocketman

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 07:40 PM
I can't cite my source but it was linked from macrumors. Basicly it has incrementally better audio treatment (allegedly) and a slightly different video treatment, which I am SURE a human could not detect the difference between.

Rocketman

Interesting, but totally off-base. Blu-ray suppports fully uncompressed audio. Additionally, the higher bitrates overall imparted by the better laser allow for higher quality data streams of all types.

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 07:41 PM
The kicker there though is that hard drives are going to hit a floor price soon, where production/material costs no longer allow for the price per Gb to reduce. The promissing tech there being perpendicular drives, though the $ premium on that technology is a bit more than it should be.

That was only because it was new for the time. The newest product always commands a premium, as it ages, the premium wears off. For example, the current price/GB of the 750GB drives are about the same or only slightly higher than that of a 400GB drive, probably lower if you factor in the cost of a drive enclosure or drive bay into the per-GB costs.

Assuming you could make a flash drive that size, that drive would cost $15,000, using Sandisk's currently stated pricing. I can see using SSD if it's 2x that of a hard drive, that's cheaper than a mirror pair, but not 50x, and it's going to take several years to get down to that price differential.

JeffDM
Mar 20, 2007, 07:48 PM
It's just that most of the technical papers I have seen say that using Blue laser with a much shorter wavelength of light than a ruby laser ultimately allows much denser data storage on disk with faster read/write times.

HD-DVD and Blu-Ray both use the same color laser. HD-DVD was going to use a red laser of some type but that was changed.

There are a few niggling details here and there, HD-DVD requires dual video stream decoders and has some other features. One I remember is that HD-DVD allows you to "reskin" objects if the movie supports reskinning, so your favorite car has a certain logo replaced or your least favorite actor has a face replacement.

I'm rooting for BRD only because I want better computer storage options, but I don't expect to buy into an HD disc format it until the dust has settled and one format bows out.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 07:53 PM
Interesting, but totally off-base. Blu-ray suppports fully uncompressed audio. Additionally, the higher bitrates overall imparted by the better laser allow for higher quality data streams of all types.

uncompressed audio is fine when you have the space but what you ask for is diametrically opposed to good video. If I want the best video then I want to be efficient with my audio. TrueHD is lossless but utilizes a lower bitrate thus I have more room for the video and its peaks. To date there is little correlation between higher bitrates and better quality. It seems that the primary differentiator for quality encodes is the quality of the Master.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 07:55 PM
Blu-Ray IS the more advanced technology. The only leg HD-DVD has to stand on is lower production cost.

How do you figure? The only advantage I can see with Blu-ray is bandwidth.

Blu-rays maximum video bandwidth is 40Mbps while HD DVD's is 30mbps.

From a platform spec the HD DVD players are more full featured with far more mandatory features despite the lower cost.

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 07:57 PM
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray both use the same color laser. HD-DVD was going to use a red laser of some type but that was changed.

There are a few niggling details here and there, HD-DVD requires dual video stream decoders and has some other features. One I remember is that HD-DVD allows you to "reskin" objects if the movie supports reskinning, so your favorite car has a certain logo replaced or your least favorite actor has a face replacement.

I'm rooting for BRD only because I want better computer storage options, but I don't expect to buy into an HD disc format it until the dust has settled and one format bows out.

Downloads and ZFS are going to make discs irrelevent except for very long term storage of personal data.

At some point you will not even download the movie, only a permission file to view it anywhere, anytime on any device.

Rocketman

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 08:02 PM
How do you figure? The only advantage I can see with Blu-ray is bandwidth.

Blu-rays maximum video bandwidth is 40Mbps while HD DVD's is 30mbps.

From a platform spec the HD DVD players are more full featured with far more mandatory features despite the lower cost.

Dont forget much higher capacities, which is no small thing (pun intended).

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 08:06 PM
Dont forget much higher capacities, which is no small thing (pun intended).

HD DVD leads there. They have access to double sided DL30 discs for 60GB of total storage on a disc.

zioxide
Mar 20, 2007, 08:09 PM
HD DVD leads there. They have access to double sided DL30 discs for 60GB of total storage on a disc.

TDK has a prototype 200GB Blu-ray disk.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39282192,00.htm

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 08:11 PM
HD DVD leads there. They have access to double sided DL30 discs for 60GB of total storage on a disc.

Wrong again. From the spec site:

To ensure that the Blu-ray Disc format is easily extendable (future-proof) it also includes support for multi-layer discs, which should allow the storage capacity to be increased to 100GB-200GB (25GB per layer) in the future simply by adding more layers to the discs.

Also:

According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

digitalbiker
Mar 20, 2007, 08:13 PM
HD-DVD and Blu-Ray both use the same color laser. HD-DVD was going to use a red laser of some type but that was changed.
.

I see that you are right. They both now use the 405 nanometer wavelength laser. So really I guess these two devices are essentially on equal footing with the laser now the principle difference is the format spec itself.

It looks as though BRD wins as far as storage 25GB per layer as opposed to 15GB per layer for HD-DVD but HD-DVD specifies 60i fps support whereas it is optional on BRD.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 08:20 PM
TDK has a prototype 200GB Blu-ray disk.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39282192,00.htm

Not part of today's spec. Those discs record 33GB per layer which is incompatible with today's Blu-ray player which stores 25GB per layer.

Wrong again. From the spec site:

"should allow"?? That's speculation. I've got the Blu-ray specs in PDF form on my Mac. The current spec doesn't support anything higher than DL50GB discs. I'm into what can actually be delivered versus pipe dreams about what the future may hold. DS DL30GB discs are supported in the spec of HD DVD TODAY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Blu-ray_Disc_.2F_HD_DVD_comparison

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 08:29 PM
Not part of today's spec. Those discs record 33GB per layer which is incompatible with today's Blu-ray player which stores 25GB per layer.



"should allow"?? That's speculation. I've got the Blu-ray specs in PDF form on my Mac. The current spec doesn't support anything higher than DL50GB discs. I'm into what can actually be delivered versus pipe dreams about what the future may hold. DS DL30GB discs are supported in the spec of HD DVD TODAY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Blu-ray_Disc_.2F_HD_DVD_comparison


Its like ZIOXIDE said: TDK has a prototype 200GB Blu-ray disk.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1...9282192,00.htm

...and the spec requires that current drives support the multiple layers already.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 08:38 PM
Its like ZIOXIDE said: TDK has a prototype 200GB Blu-ray disk.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1...9282192,00.htm

...and the spec requires that current drives support the multiple layers already.

Yeah and someone has a prototype car that runs on water. How's that going to help me now? If you want to live in the future then Blu-ray's your format but for folks that need to get stuff done today we need concrete deliverables.

If you think multi-layer BD-ROM is easy find me a replicator that can handle consumer projects. Hint..there are none. So dreams about 200GB discs that aren't even in today's spec are foolhardy if you can't even go to someone like discmakers or ProAction and replicate DL BD ROM.

http://www.proactionmedia.com/hd_dvd_replication.htm
100,000 Discs $1.35 ea(15GB) $1.55 ea(30GB)

http://www.proactionmedia.com/blu-ray_replication.htm
100,000 Discs $1.49 ea (25GB)

speaks volumes doesn't it?

zioxide
Mar 20, 2007, 08:42 PM
DS DL30GB discs are supported in the spec of HD DVD TODAY.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Blu-ray_Disc_.2F_HD_DVD_comparison

Not according to that wikipedia article you linked.

Peace
Mar 20, 2007, 08:42 PM
Yeah and someone has a prototype car that runs on water. How's that going to help me now? If you want to live in the future then Blu-ray's your format but for folks that need to get stuff done today we need concrete deliverables.

If you think multi-layer BD-ROM is easy find me a replicator that can handle consumer projects. Hint..there are none. So dreams about 200GB discs that aren't even in today's spec are foolhardy if you can't even go to someone like discmakers or ProAction and replicate DL BD ROM.

http://www.proactionmedia.com/hd_dvd_replication.htm
100,000 Discs $1.35 ea(15GB) $1.55 ea(30GB)

http://www.proactionmedia.com/blu-ray_replication.htm
100,000 Discs $1.49 ea (25GB)

speaks volumes doesn't it?

What hardware are you currently using , and how many HD disks do you burn a day ?

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 08:57 PM
What hardware are you currently using , and how many HD disks do you burn a day ?

Why is that relevant?

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 08:58 PM
Not according to that wikipedia article you linked.

Of course DL30 is listed and to access the other 30GB portion you simply flip the disc.

However you will see hide nor hare of mythical 200GB discs outside of a TDK lab.

http://www.pacificdisc.com/PricingHD-DVD.html

Peace
Mar 20, 2007, 09:00 PM
Why is that relevant?


Well if you're not using any HD creation AND HD burning tools now your arguments about other's looking in the future are just as speculative as theirs.;)

Sunrunner
Mar 20, 2007, 09:01 PM
Of course DL30 is listed and to access the other 30GB portion you simply flip the disc.

However you will see hide nor hare of mythical 200GB discs outside of a TDK lab.


Flip the disc??!!?? What is this, 1995?

zioxide
Mar 20, 2007, 09:08 PM
Of course DL30 is listed and to access the other 30GB portion you simply flip the disc.

Well if you're talking about flipping the disk, than if Blu-ray wanted to, they could make 100GB ones compatible to today's specs.

According to the wikipedia article, blu-ray is superior in every way.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 09:09 PM
Well if you're not using any HD creation AND HD burning tools now your arguments about other's looking in the future are just as speculative as theirs.;)

Oh I see. I'm stuck with iMovie until I can scrounge up the pennies for the next version of Final Cut Studio. I find that Blu-ray is a fine format..expecially as a recording format but I'm not so keen on it as far as a playback medium. I don't really like the extra BD+ DRM and Java based interactivity to me seem backwards.

Flip the disc??!!?? What is this, 1995?


LOL yeah it is but technically speaking it allows for the most density on a single disc. My preferences would of course be for a single sided disc.

I'll likely own both formats but for movie buying I'm a HD DVD fan because of value. The cost is lower and the quality is all there. I don't have many qualms with others preferring Blu-ray. Who knows where things will take us...all I know is that Apple will be there to support HD wherever we go.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 09:11 PM
Well if you're talking about flipping the disk, than if Blu-ray wanted to, they could make 100GB ones compatible to today's specs.

According to the wikipedia article, blu-ray is superior in every way.

Yes but that would be quite difficult. Since Blu-ray isn't two .6mm halves sandwiched together like DVD/HD DVD.

They would have to have 3 pieces. Two .1mm protection layers and a 1mm backing. Both sides would have to be coated with protective film. That would be a mighty expensive disc to manufacture. But theoretically it could be done.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 09:27 PM
When is Apple going to support the next Hotness in compression.

Wavelet Compression

CRC-WVC

http://www.videsignline.com/howto/196602553

avelet-based video coding has recently received much attention and emerged as a powerful competitor against the traditional hybrid coding scheme. Many experimental results have shown that wavelet-based video coding is able to provide higher compression efficiency than the traditional hybrid coding. In addition, wavelet-based video coding has another advantage. Once a video is encoded at a given resolution and quality, video with various lower resolutions and qualities can be easily decoded using portions of the bit streams. This feature, called scalability, enables delivery of video over heterogeneous networks and to serve clients with various display and processing capabilities.

In this article we will describe the structure and algorithms of a wavelet-based video codec called CRC-WVC. Then we will present the compression efficiency of the codec and explain the reasons why it can perform better than H.264.

Sounds interesting. h.264 is pretty powerful but if this product in it's infancy can be competitive then who knows what power it may contain. I say FCP 7 needs to add some sort of Wavelet Compression. The less data we can send over WAN links yet still keep quality the better. IMO of course

cuestakid
Mar 20, 2007, 09:38 PM
as much as we would all love to get our new OS, Mac Pros, iMacs and so on, just based on the colors and layout-i think it will be most likely new Pro apps

I personally do not think that we will see Lepoard untill WWDC-thats just me

mattster16
Mar 20, 2007, 09:53 PM
sweet - an apple event on my birthday. :)

day before my birthday..maybe i'll be buying myself a present?

Rocketman
Mar 20, 2007, 10:01 PM
When is Apple going to support the next Hotness in compression.
Wavelet Compression
CRC-WVC
http://www.videsignline.com/howto/196602553


Back in 1992-4 the next thing was fractal. It actually rocked, even by today's standards. Where is it now?

Rocketman

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 10:04 PM
Back in 1992-4 the next thing was fractal. It actually rocked, even by today's standards. Where is it now?

Rocketman


Here.

http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=2

ChrisA
Mar 20, 2007, 10:07 PM
When is Apple going to support the next Hotness in compression.

Wavelet Compression


Apple's "Preview" already supports wavelet compression. JPEG2000 is based on wavelet compression.


.

iMeowbot
Mar 20, 2007, 10:08 PM
When is Apple going to support the next Hotness in compression.

Wavelet Compression

Oh, about three years ago. They added the Pixlet wavelet codec from Pixar when Panther came out.

nuckinfutz
Mar 20, 2007, 10:24 PM
Oh, about three years ago. They added the Pixlet wavelet codec from Pixar when Panther came out.


Yesssssssssss I had forgotten all about Pixlet.

digitalbiker
Mar 20, 2007, 10:39 PM
as much as we would all love to get our new OS, Mac Pros, iMacs and so on, just based on the colors and layout-i think it will be most likely new Pro apps

I personally do not think that we will see Lepoard untill WWDC-thats just me

You are probably right but seeing as how there are a number of Leopard specific discussions and classes that are being offered at the WWDC, one would hope that Leopard would be released prior to the conference so that developers could have a chance to see where the problems lie with their existing software.

Even two or three weeks of public release of Leopard would significantly help developers with specific issues that they could site at the conference discussions. This would be especially true if Apple were holding back some secret features as SJ had mentioned at MWSF 07.

emilsjr
Mar 20, 2007, 11:00 PM
Blu-ray is dead.
Why?
The adult film industry is adopting HD since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray.
Game over.
HD wins.


It always amazes me how many people in this forum continue to post this incorrect info.

The internet is your friend. Use it.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Disc_Announcements/Vivid/Blu-ray_PornGate_Ends_with_the_Return_of_Debbie_Does_Dallas/445

B. Hunter
Mar 20, 2007, 11:50 PM
lazyrighteye said:
"Blu-ray is dead.
Why?
The adult film industry is adopting HD since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray.
Game over.
HD wins. "

OHHH BOY!
I can now look to the porn industry to direct the future of HD and Mac users!

Get real.

bretm
Mar 20, 2007, 11:59 PM
When is Apple going to support the next Hotness in compression.

Wavelet Compression

CRC-WVC

http://www.videsignline.com/howto/196602553



Sounds interesting. h.264 is pretty powerful but if this product in it's infancy can be competitive then who knows what power it may contain. I say FCP 7 needs to add some sort of Wavelet Compression. The less data we can send over WAN links yet still keep quality the better. IMO of course


I was using wavelet for broadcast television in 1993 at 12:1 compression and nobody blinked an eye. Looked great. It was used in our editing system, the videocube (version 1.0!)

Reach
Mar 21, 2007, 01:44 AM
Also at Musikmesse late this month Apple will announce Logic Pro 8 which will be a huge update and finally LP8 will be a peer application in a Final Cut Pro workflow. So if STP 2 doesn't fit the bill LP8 steps in with perfect roundtrip support.

Very true, and I hope you are right.. I make music that I want to use for my multimedia-projects. Soundtrack is useless for that task, adn I have not yet bought a software package that will help me do this, as I wait for the next revision of Logic, which will be a very important part of Final Cut Studio for a lot of us.

Hmmm... Maybe Apple pulls off a segmenting-stunt and releases several versions of FCS, one for musicians with Logic 8 in it. :)
hehe Wouldn't be very Apple, but I am allowed to dream aren't I?

By the way, this thread is not really about BR vs HDDVD, regardless of how the last two pages contains nothing but that debate..

shikimo
Mar 21, 2007, 02:24 AM
I'm sorry, what is your point?:confused:

My (rather obvious) point is that the only English-language rumor suggesting a Logic update (or complete overhaul, possibly with a new name) being released at MusikMesse, is based on a translation error and is thus wholly unreliable. That is relevant to this thread because a poster inquired about Logic possibly being released at NAB instead, because he or she was under the misinformed notion that Apple would not be represented at MusikMesse. Several others corrected the latter mistake, while I commented on the former.

As simple as possible: Apple will be at MusikMesse, but rumors about new Logic at this event are as yet totally unsubstantiated (as far as I know).

Sorry to the rest of you for making a redundant post, but someone didn't get it, and/or didn't read all the relevant posts :rolleyes: .

CmdrLaForge
Mar 21, 2007, 02:43 AM
I think the 720p downloads are much more likely. Movies maybe, TV shows likely. They may drop some Leopard hints, though.


I doubt that we see anything consumer related at NAB. This is a pro show and we might see new FCS and Mac Pros / Mac Book Pros. Thats about it. The exciting news will be the new features in Final Cut Studio e.g. RED support or similar things.

Vinxi
Mar 21, 2007, 03:54 AM
Did you need to ask twice, or was that a mistake?
It was a mistake, sorry.

So I have to wait for 10th June, right?

deadkenny
Mar 21, 2007, 04:09 AM
My Prediction: Leopard with resolution independent UI supporting multitouch and new devices supporting them: the new iMac and new cinema displays

crossifixio
Mar 21, 2007, 04:29 AM
Since it is a pro event I think they might upgrade the Mac Pro and the displays. Leopard will not be released but the secret futures might be revealed before its may release ;)

tomesi
Mar 21, 2007, 04:46 AM
What about releasing new iMacs with Leopard on NAB and to show us the new PRO-Stuff at WWDC!? (I think that would be great :D)

Last time, i think, it was the same..first one was a new iMac with Tiger, then the others came a lil bit later.

mrthieme
Mar 21, 2007, 05:54 AM
This reminds me of the Photokina event which featured an invite clearly stating that Aperture would be the focus. Everyone still had fantasies of new hardware that did not materialize, creating huge disappointment. I expect the Focus to be on Final Cut, and any new hardware to be orientated around FC, Macpros, ACD's, a raid would be neat.

BenRoethig
Mar 21, 2007, 06:15 AM
im sure its already been said, but I project the Quad Core "Revolutionary" iMacs to be released on this day.

A mobile quad core isn't even on the road map yet. I don't see it being thick enough for the desktop parts.

Reach
Mar 21, 2007, 09:00 AM
Regarding my wish for an "extended" Final Cut Studio-bundle, Apples recent Phofilmusigner-campaign makes me think of it as a remote possiblity that Logic could be included.. :D With emphasis on remote.. Unfortunately..

Machead III
Mar 21, 2007, 10:03 AM
Expect a new version of Final Cut Pro Studio with Shake technology built in and Final Cut Express 6.

Yeah, or some iTMS video stuff.

Why are people expecting Mac Pros and iPods at a National Association of Broadcasters conference?

4God
Mar 21, 2007, 11:18 AM
My (rather obvious) point is that the only English-language rumor suggesting a Logic update (or complete overhaul, possibly with a new name) being released at MusikMesse, is based on a translation error and is thus wholly unreliable. That is relevant to this thread because a poster inquired about Logic possibly being released at NAB instead, because he or she was under the misinformed notion that Apple would not be represented at MusikMesse. Several others corrected the latter mistake, while I commented on the former.

As simple as possible: Apple will be at MusikMesse, but rumors about new Logic at this event are as yet totally unsubstantiated (as far as I know).

Sorry to the rest of you for making a redundant post, but someone didn't get it, and/or didn't read all the relevant posts :rolleyes: .

No, I read your post and what I was commenting on was that the poster said that Apple is not going to be/have a booth at MusikMesse.
That is obviously wrong. I think maybe you didn't understand my post. :rolleyes:

Take a chill pill or go back to bed.

StrayRooster
Mar 21, 2007, 11:22 AM
Why are people expecting Mac Pros and iPods at a National Association of Broadcasters conference?

That's a very good point......Are they really going to announce hardware?

Queso
Mar 21, 2007, 12:43 PM
That's a very good point......Are they really going to announce hardware?
No point launching Final Cut Studio Extreme if there's no super hardware to run it on. HP have had eight-core machines out for a couple of months now, yet FCS doesn't run on HP kit. Apple can plug this hole at the top end of the line very easily. It's a simple processor swap out on the existing MP motherboard.

Eight-core is pretty likely IMO, although the main point of the event will be the software.

contractcooker
Mar 21, 2007, 02:36 PM
Blu-ray is dead.
Why?
The adult film industry is adopting HD since Sony says no adult content on blur-ray.
Game over.
HD wins.

Sex sells.
Always has, always will.

http://www.hdtvuk.tv/2007/03/vivid_release_f.html

http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/05/02/pornhd/index.php?lsrc=mwrss

Please do not post unless you are actually informed. Your information is quite out of date. The porn industry is on both sides and actually may favor blu ray. But saying that there isn't going to be porn for blu ray is just WRONG. educate yourself before you post.

:apple:

contractcooker
Mar 21, 2007, 02:47 PM
I think the PS3 Blu-Ray drive is key. I typically consider myself an early adopter, but even still was on the fence regarding HD formats until the PS3 came out. I now have a PS3 (which is freaking awsome btw) and thus several blu-ray movies in the movie library. PS3 integration is going to be very good for blu-ray overall, and a much more succesful than the XBox "buy the add-on" modality for the HD-DVD drive.

I totally agree, I'm not an expert on this issue by any means. I still give HD-DVD a chance, but not a very good one. All the news I've been hearing has been about blu-ray. It's actually kind of funny because people were talking about how HD-DVD had a name that consumers could relate to. Turns out that people don't want just an "upgraded dvd" they want something new... and blue, so true. OK sorry about the rhyme.

Second, I also agree that the PS3 is freaking awesome. Anyone who bashes the PS3 clearly hasn't used one. I love the wii, and I love the 360, and I love the PS3. This is by far the best generations of consoles that have come out in a while (IMHO). Quit bitching about the PS3. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Sorry, I have NEVER posted in the PS3, 360, Wii flame war because it's so lame. I just wanted one time to say what I thought. :)

:apple:

contractcooker
Mar 21, 2007, 04:57 PM
HD-DVD is "technically better" ever so slightly. BR has adoption by machine sellers on its side. PS3 to the point they could not make blue lasers fast enough, Apple who is a mass-market consumer and media company. On some level BR has a few legs up. People buy discs to play on what they have.

Betamax was "better" than VHS, but VHS player sales initially did better because of increased commissions on hardware sales at stores "like" Pacific Stereo. Once the adoption trend was set, publishers saw increased demand for titles published on VHS vs Betamax. After a while they phased out Betamax titles.

Hey MM, you are not the only old man here :) You do take a bit of getting used to. . . .

When the quad iMac is released is not particularly relevant. It will run CS3 great and FCP just fine unless you are a really heavy user of effects, which 98% of people are not. I wonder if it will have a built-in Infiniband I/O? :)

NAB folks need upscale MacPros with upscale add-in cards and upscale storage and upscale FC software. (I should have said FCX for Xtreme in my first post not FCE which should be used for Express).

This an exceptionally important show for Apple IMHO.

Rocketman

Umm... There are a lot of sites that I have been reading that say blu-ray is technically better... I think that you're wrong on this point. Blu-ray has more storage per layer and can offer better picture quality. My understanding is that some early blu-ray movies used an inferior codec compared to early hd-dvd movies leading a bunch of people to think that hd-dvd was technically superior. I'm pretty sure that if you compare more recent releases that you will find blu-ray as good or better than hd-dvd quality.

Please, if anyone knows more about this than me please comment on this issue I would be very interested to hear other peopls opinions/facts on this matter.

:apple:

Reach
Mar 21, 2007, 05:02 PM
Please, if anyone knows more about this than me please comment on this issue I would be very interested to hear other peopls opinions/facts on this matter.

:apple:

Please, start a separate "which-optical-disc-format-is-better"-thread.. :p

contractcooker
Mar 21, 2007, 05:02 PM
Assuming prices slide that much, where will hard drive prices be then in 1-2 years? Probably even lower with still much larger capacity. I ran the numbers last week, and I think I calculated that parity would take something like 5-6 years, assuming the current rate of price sliding, based on cost per GB.


Well you have to believe that once more SSDs start shipping that the price drop will accelerate whereas the price drops on HDDs will probably maintain approximately there current rate. Also, you would have to assume that as SSDs overtake HDDs that HDD price might flatten or actually begin to rise.

my take

:apple:

contractcooker
Mar 21, 2007, 05:16 PM
Very true, and I hope you are right.. I make music that I want to use for my multimedia-projects. Soundtrack is useless for that task, adn I have not yet bought a software package that will help me do this, as I wait for the next revision of Logic, which will be a very important part of Final Cut Studio for a lot of us.

Hmmm... Maybe Apple pulls off a segmenting-stunt and releases several versions of FCS, one for musicians with Logic 8 in it. :)
hehe Wouldn't be very Apple, but I am allowed to dream aren't I?

By the way, this thread is not really about BR vs HDDVD, regardless of how the last two pages contains nothing but that debate..

I think that the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray issue is quite pertinent for a Professional Broadcasting conference.... I mean it's kind how people tend to transport video data.

:apple:

guzhogi
Mar 22, 2007, 12:10 PM
I know this is fairly off topic, but I was just checking out what kind of stuff MacOSRumors is making up and here's an interesting tidbit from their front page:

We've been playing with Photoshop CS3 and the rest of the new Intel-optimized Suite of Adobe's applications....and although the performance is gratifying on new Macs including the new Octo-core Mac Pro

Unless they were using very early pre-release stuff, neither Adobe CS3 nor the octo MacPro is out yet. If they were, there would've been a lot more mention of it on here. Just thought I'd share.

macfan881
Apr 11, 2007, 10:35 AM
so is this still hapening its itnresting to see what apple will come out with now cs 3 is already out same with mac pros the only thing i can think of is new Hd Displays blu ray suport? possible 10.5 but i doubt it

psychofreak
Apr 11, 2007, 10:39 AM
so is this still hapening its itnresting to see what apple will come out with now cs 3 is already out same with mac pros the only thing i can think of is new Hd Displays blu ray suport? possible 10.5 but i doubt it

I actually think that it is quite likely that the next iDVD will have support for burning to blu-ray and/or HD DVD

twoodcc
Apr 11, 2007, 11:35 AM
I actually think that it is quite likely that the next iDVD will have support for burning to blu-ray and/or HD DVD

now that would be great :)