Mac OS X Leopard, iLife, and iWork Coming in June 2007?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0704leopardjune.html) that Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) will ship in June 2007. This would bring it just within Apple's official "Spring 2007" release date.

The rumor site hints that Leopard will indeed include some surprises, but no details are available:

"Leopard is shaping up to be a more significant release than anyone expected, with much more to come than any of the developer builds have led on," one source said.

Updates to iLife and iWork are also expected alongside Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) but that they may be rebranded as "iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard", dropping the calendar-year naming convention of the previous versions.

[poopooplatter]

Who can say?

[jtaylr77]

I wonder if only users of the latest OS release will be able to install updated iLife

[4God]

Ugghhh......here we go again. :rolleyes:

I couldn't wait anymore, I ordered my MacPro yesterday. :D

[wakerider017]

Wonder if there will be new iMacs by then?

My sister needs a new iMac but is waiting for Leopard.

[randyharris]

Bring it on baby, bring it on.

[szark]

Ugghhh..."iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard"? Someone help them choose better names! :eek:

I'm impatiently waiting to find out what the new features are!

[EricNau]

Big Surprise. :rolleyes:

This is not news - this is obvious.

[siurpeeman]

Updates to iLife and iWork are also expected alongside Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) but that they may be rebranded as "iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard", dropping the calendar-year naming convention of the previous versions.


thinksecret? think siurpee. i called it first (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3501871#post3501871). :)


Sources say Apple continues to toy with the idea of bundling one or both suites with the new operating system free of charge in an effort to further play up the extra value and features Mac OS X offers over Microsoft's new Windows Vista.

this would be great if apple bundled ilife with mac os x. then it would really be the "complete package."

[pknz]

Yay! A Leopard rumor.

[Multimedia]

Big Surprise. :rolleyes:

This is not news - this is obvious.I'll second that Duh! :rolleyes: :eek: A new iLife by any other name is still the new iLife '08.

[gavd]

Big Surprise. :rolleyes:

This is not news - this is obvious.

Agreed. Stating it will come out in June when Apple have said all along a spring release is pretty obvious.

[Stridder44]

Ugghhh..."iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard"? Someone help them choose better names! :eek:

I'm impatiently waiting to find out what the new features are!


Yeah, While I like the idea and I know what they're doing, I hate the potential name. I never was a fan of the "tiger" or "leopard" naming scheme. But whatever, if it's true I'll live.

[cwedl]

It would be nice to see iLife come with Leopard, I suppose if it calls iLife and iWork "Leopard" editions, we will be seeing less frequent major updates to these suites? May be Apple was using too many resources to get the frequent updates out in time for January?

[timmillwood]

I doubt i will upgrade to leopard as it is, there is nothing for me there.

So these new features better be good!

[nagromme]

If anything significant has yet to be seen, then it must be tested for some time before release. And if gets released to testers, then word will leak.

Thus, Apple would want to hold an official event to preview the additional features, letting the news out in their own way. And this event would not be the release date--it would precede the final testing, and might name the release date.

June release sounds reasonable to me, with an "unveiling" well before then. There's no obvious reason NOT to preview the new stuff publicly: it would generate publicity, and Vista's already out if they're worried about stuff being copied.

New stuff that touches on entirely new business areas might be worth keeping secret--but not once it's being widely tested. There are no secrets then.

BTW, it's amusing how many people each have their own list of the "one or two" great features of Leopard, and call the rest useless... and for each person it's a different list :) So I'll name MY top feature:

* All the little stuff that doesn't make a good headline but adds up to a more productive experience every day. Each OS X release so far has been packed with these, and make OS X worth my $99 (Amazon) every time--even without the "headline" features. (Which, in the case of Leopard, DO sound pretty big to me--even the ones we know already.)

Re the secret features, I'm not expecting much. Apple-followers get themselves worked up that something great and revolutionary is coming every time, when of course the reality is that the new stuff is only great and revolutionary SOMETIMES. Maybe Leopard's secrets will astonish me, but I'm betting they will just be a little more icing on the cake. Like a new Finder. I finally really like the Finder as of Tiger, but it has its rough edges and I'd love to see a replacement.

And if Leopard's known new features don't impress you, I bet you're REALLY not excited about Vista :o (Yes, I know, Vista compares more closely to Panther or Tiger.)

[peestandingup]

Dropping the calendar year naming in iLife/iWork was bound to happen. I mean hell, by the time it comes out, half the year will be gone.

[swingerofbirch]

At this point, it's not hard to pick a month. There's April, May, and June left in Spring. Based on the fact that current Leopard builds (at least the ones developers are getting) are unstable, I doubt it's April. Based on the fact that they are unstable, I think it's less likely to be May than June. Based on the fact that Apple has a built in show with the WWDC in June and that they will be releasing the iPhone which is running a version of Leopard in June as well, I say June has red flags all over it!

So, yes, June is my prediction.

And yes, iLife Leopard is a bad name, but TS didn't say that was the name. They said it was something like that.

[joeshell383]

Dropping the calendar year naming in iLife/iWork was bound to happen. I mean hell, by the time it comes out, half the year will be gone.

Very true. That's why I don't like Microsoft's product names.

NAMES- VISTA, XP- Don't give a sense of where it falls in time
YEARS- Office 2003, Office 2007- Appear out of date after time, especially when new releases aren't annual
NUMBERS- 10.4, 10.5- Give a sense of what came first/what comes next AND don't prematurely appear out of date

[TheAnswer]

...iLife Leopard is a bad name, but TS didn't say that was the name. They said it was something like that.

I'm hoping that they just name it iLife and iWork, then rework the packaging of each to match with the Leopard box...that should give everyone enough clues as to what's up.

[GanleyBurger]

.

Speaking of Leopard, iLife and iwork, what ever happened to Macs having a built-in basic art program? When did the Mac version of Microsoft's Paint disappear? Didn't old systems have a paint program?

[EricNau]

I'm hoping that they just name it iLife and iWork, then rework the packaging of each to match with the Leopard box...that should give everyone enough clues as to what's up.
Then how would you identify the version?

[macdaddy121]

June is going to be a HUGE month for Apple. It can't get here fast enough!!!

[maxterpiece]

anybody else find all the cat names difficult to keep in order? I wish they would just number everything, or maybe set up an alphabetical listing cats and go forward in the alphabet each year.

[BananaEater]

..acompanied with the new notebook

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20070330PD206.html


ahh...the rumors :o

[Mr. Dee]

Then how would you identify the version?

just a small little wording, iLife version 7

Application About Boxes could also say, iMovie 7 part of iLife version 7

[Frisco]

I'm happy with June. It will make for a happy Summer!

[TheAnswer]

Then how would you identify the version?

Well the current versions are white boxes, the new ones boxes would have Leopard-esque goodness. I guess they could call it iLife: Leopard Edition for the online sites, but they could leave the "Leopard Edition" off the front of the packaging by just making it Leopard-esque.

[swingerofbirch]

.

Speaking of Leopard, iLife and iwork, what ever happened to Macs having a built-in basic art program? When did the Mac version of Microsoft's Paint disappear? Didn't old systems have a paint program?

Hmmm..not that I can recall...AppleWorks did, but that didn't necessarily come with all Macs....

GraphicConverter is good for simple image creation/manipulation.

[EricNau]

just a small little wording, iLife version 7

Application About Boxes could also say, iMovie 7 part of iLife version 7
Only problem is, the iLife apps are at different version numbers (iTunes 7, iPhoto 6, iMovie HD 6, iDVD 6, GarageBand 3, iWeb 1). This is why Apple has refrained from using the term "version" with iLife, because it conflicts with the individual app's version numbers.

Well the current versions are white boxes, the new ones boxes would have Leopard-esque goodness. I guess they could call it iLife: Leopard Edition for the online sites, but they could leave the "Leopard Edition" off the front of the packaging by just making it Leopard-esque.
Pretend your ordering it over the phone. What would you call it? ;)


Personally, "iLife Leopard" doesn't bother me. (It seems to be the most logical solution).

[hollerz]

anybody else find all the cat names difficult to keep in order? I wish they would just number everything, or maybe set up an alphabetical listing cats and go forward in the alphabet each year.


They do, 10.3, 10.4, 10.5 etc.

[sushi]

Ugghhh..."iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard"? Someone help them choose better names! :eek:
Yes, not the most appealing names in the least.

My bet is on iLife 7 or iLife 2007.

[giganten]

Better late than never.
I will buy my :apple: in May – June so it is okay for me.

[Kelmon]

I had my money on June as well but the idea of releasing Leopard in June with "much more to come than any of the developer builds have led on" scares the heck out of me. With only 3 months to go and developer builds supposedly not being too hot are we seriously expecting additional "big" features that will have been fully tested before release? If the answer is yes then I'm seriously going to be reconsidering buying this version until the first few updates are out. Normally I'd be an early adopter but given the issues I had with Tiger at release and what appeared to be much more open development/testing I'd be very wary of installing Leopard on my day-to-day machine in case something nasty happens. This is a considerable shame because I'm dying to get my hands on Xcode 3 and Objective-C 2...

[kevindosi]

DAMMIT my rss aggregator showed the title to this article as "Max OS X Leopard, iLife and iWork Coming...."
what a disappointment when i clicked on the link.

[Redneck1089]

I just hope the Mac Pros are updated before then. I could really use one!

[BigPrince]

It would be nice to see iLife come with Leopard, I suppose if it calls iLife and iWork "Leopard" editions, we will be seeing less frequent major updates to these suites? May be Apple was using too many resources to get the frequent updates out in time for January?
That was one of my first thoughts, I hope this is not the case.

[Darkroom]

personally, i was all whatever about the big cat "code-names"... no big deal, they're just "code-names"... untill of course the big cat code-names stuck like hot gum on a tennis shoe, and even Apple started (and continues) to present these code-names as reverent... ok ok, sure it's more creative, and very Apple-like, to name products instead of number them, 'cause "Leopard" is less confusing to consumers than "Mac OS 10.5"... but for serious, those big cat names have been around long enough and have got to go... honestly Apple...

why stop at renaming the iLife Suite... i hope one of the unexpected surprises of "Leopard" is a name change... :rolleyes:

[MacbookSwitcher]

I have the same concerns some others have listed here. Seeing that the latest developer seed is not stable, it seems pretty optimistic that they'll be able to have this thing on shelves in 10 weeks.

[andrewag]

oh man, i feel like chucking a tantrum. I want my Mac OS NOW! *stamps foot*.

I wish it was sooner rather than later.

[iMikeT]

At least we now have a timeframe for the iLife and iWork suites.

Come on Apple, I'm getting tired of using TextEdit.

[Applespider]

Based on the fact that current Leopard builds (at least the ones developers are getting) are unstable, I doubt it's April. Based on the fact that they are unstable, I think it's less likely to be May than June.

With only 3 months to go and developer builds supposedly not being too hot are we seriously expecting additional "big" features that will have been fully tested before release?

I'm getting a sense of deja vu here. Go back and look at this thread from 2005 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=114981) which suggested in mid-March that Tiger would be announced in April. There are countless nay-sayers saying that there hasn't been a big ramp up in developer seeds yet, that the developer seeds aren't stable yet and so on. Yet, on 12 April, Apple announced Tiger would come out on 29 April and the sky didn't fall in.

[kugino]

i agree with those who say this is NOT news...or if it is news, it's old and done that news. tell us something we don't know or haven't heard a million times already...sheesh.

[matticus008]

It would be nice to see iLife come with Leopard, I suppose if it calls iLife and iWork "Leopard" editions, we will be seeing less frequent major updates to these suites? May be Apple was using too many resources to get the frequent updates out in time for January?
More likely it's just that they don't have as much new material to cover and don't want to be tied to annual fluff releases when they don't have anything new to release. Now they can synchronize the release with OS development to keep up with the latest features for OS integration. Many companies do clustered releases this way (Microsoft and Adobe in particular).
Then how would you identify the version?
Same way you identify the version on OS X boxes--look at the text on the side.
Only problem is, the iLife apps are at different version numbers (iTunes 7, iPhoto 6, iMovie HD 6, iDVD 6, GarageBand 3, iWeb 1). This is why Apple has refrained from using the term "version" with iLife, because it conflicts with the individual app's version numbers.
A weak counterargument; all kinds of other suites have uneven version numbers (MS Office, Adobe Creative Suite, Macromedia sets, Mozilla suite) with a separate version number for the collection as a whole. You used to be able to order "Office 6" which had Word 6, Excel 5, and PowerPoint 3 in it.
Pretend your ordering it over the phone. What would you call it? ;)
iLife? Once they replace them each year, there's only one for sale. If you wanted to order a back version, you would specify it, I'd imagine.

Just as OS X 10.5 will be called "Leopard" by everyone in the know, whatever these suites ultimately come to be called, if they really are going to be tied to the OS version, will probably also be called "iLife Leopard." The official version identifier isn't too important.

[EricNau]

A weak counterargument; all kinds of other suites have uneven version numbers (MS Office, Adobe Creative Suite, Macromedia sets, Mozilla suite) with a separate version number for the collection as a whole. You used to be able to order "Office 6" which had Word 6, Excel 5, and PowerPoint 3 in it.
But Microsoft changed that, didn't they? I wonder why. ;)

iLife? Once they replace them each year, there's only one for sale. If you wanted to order a back version, you would specify it, I'd imagine.
Good point, but I think my point was somewhat lost. Calling the next release of the iLife suite just "iLife" would be like calling the Adobe Creative Suite just "Creative Suite" without any version identifier.

What if a new mac user wanted to get on MacRumors and ask for help? ...If the name was simply "iLife" there would be no way to identify which version the poster was using, and when asked, they wouldn't even know what to call it, other than just "iLife."

iLife needs a version identifier, and since iLife version 8 would probably be a bad idea, and since the year is out of the question, "Leopard" seems to be the best option.

[brentonbrenton]

iLife? Once they replace them each year, there's only one for sale. If you wanted to order a back version, you would specify it, I'd imagine.


I think a version identifier is important, whether its year or not. there are some shady sales people out there, like it or not, just hoping to slide some old wares off. everyone here reading this forum is in the know, but what about everyone else. its kind of like the parents who need a new cell phone, go buy one, were told it was pretty great model. they get home, 'how much did you pay for that? ohh, no.' i'm in no way saying this is the sole reason for a version identifier either, just one of many.

[powermac_daddy]

Ugghhh......here we go again. :rolleyes:

I couldn't wait anymore, I ordered my MacPro yesterday. :D


That is a mistake. Can't you just wait for another two or three months for OX 10.5 and a faster/better macbook pro? That's what I'm going to do. Wait and wait.

[synth3tik]

This is just killing me, all this hype with no out come. I want to switch back to OS 9 and forget it all.:mad:

[photomaniac]

This is just killing me, all this hype with no out come. I want to switch back to OS 9 and forget it all.:mad:


yeah right! :D

[andrewag]

Oh by the way, since when is June Spring? Here in Australia we have autumn (fall) which covers the months March April May.

Huh???? :confused:

[EricNau]

Oh by the way, since when is June Spring? Here in Australia we have autumn (fall) which covers the months March April May.

Huh???? :confused:
Spring in the Northern Hemisphere is from March 21 to June 21.

[gavd]

<snip>

iLife needs a version identifier, and since iLife version 8 would probably be a bad idea, and since the year is out of the question, "Leopard" seems to be the best option.

I agree iLife needs an identifier as well. I still wouldn't be surprised to see it follow the previous iLife trend and called iLife 07 though. I know half the year will be gone by the time it emerges but it will still be the 2007 version.

[matticus008]

But Microsoft changed that, didn't they? I wonder why. ;)
No, they didn't. Office has Word 12, Excel 11, various other version numbers in the other products. The common identifier is "200x" but the version numbers are different among the products. (Edit: the 2007 RTM uses the suite version number for all products; products were all renumbered to match. This would be like Apple changing the numbers on all iLife products to "version 8" to harmonize).
What if a new mac user wanted to get on MacRumors and ask for help? ...If the name was simply "iLife" there would be no way to identify which version the poster was using, and when asked, they wouldn't even know what to call it, other than just "iLife."
They would look at the version number, just like they do with other software. OS X is all newbies know about the operating system. They have to look at version information and report 10.4.8 to get help.
iLife needs a version identifier, and since iLife version 8 would probably be a bad idea, and since the year is out of the question, "Leopard" seems to be the best option.
iLife doesn't need an "identifier." All it needs is a version number. It works for other software just fine--people don't walk around saying "Adium 1.2.1" or "Safari 2.1" or "Address Book 4.0.4." They just call them Adium, Safari, and Address Book.

There's no reason why iLife needs to be called anything other than "iLife." No software exists without version numbers (even products branded as "CS2" or "2007" have actual version numbers associated with them), but versioning doesn't need to take place concomitant with branding. That's all I'm saying. It doesn't need a name; it already has one. Dropping the year off the product wouldn't create any problems.

[Chaszmyr]

iLife doesn't need an "identifier." All it needs is a version number. It works for other software just fine--people don't walk around saying "Adium 1.2.1" or "Safari 2.1" or "Address Book 4.0.4." They just call them Adium, Safari, and Address Book.

But iLife isn't a piece of software, it's a bundle, and Apple has it set up so that all of the apps in iLife have their separate version numbers.

[MacSA]

I think one of the "surprises" will be the inclusion of iWork as standard with Leopard.

[matticus008]

But iLife isn't a piece of software, it's a bundle, and Apple has it set up so that all of the apps in iLife have their separate version numbers.
So? They can continue to have their own version numbers, or they can be renumbered so that they all match the suite's version number. You're all creating a barrier to naming that doesn't exist.

Of course, this has already been covered in the page-and-a-half thread.

[Onkelskrue]

I need a new machine sooner than later and I don't think I can wait until June. Do I have to wait until 30 days within release? Thoughts?

Cheers,
Lars

[MacFly123]

WOW you people amaze me. It doesn't matter what happens you just wanna bit@h about something.... I don't like the name Leopard..... I think there should be a number.... No it should be a version... This isn't news... OMG can you even hear yourselves? The more I read these forums, the more I start to hate them. I like these forums when we can share cool ideas and discuss things maturely, but most of the time it is just stupid whining and even ridiculing people. If we were all together and had a forum meeting in person would you all act like this to eachother?

Just something to think about a little :rolleyes: (no offense to the innocent).

[ortuno2k]

Okay,
Tell me something SOLID that I don't already know.
Come on.

[BigPrince]

WOW you people amaze me. It doesn't matter what happens you just wanna bit@h about something.... I don't like the name Leopard..... I think there should be a number.... No it should be a version... This isn't news... OMG can you even hear yourselves? The more I read these forums, the more I start to hate them. I like these forums when we can share cool ideas and discuss things maturely, but most of the time it is just stupid whining and even ridiculing people. If we were all together and had a forum meeting in person would you all act like this to eachother?

Just something to think about a little :rolleyes: (no offense to the innocent).

There does seem to be a decline in good topics/posts recently or at the very least an increase in garbage.

[Mac Heretic]

Well the current versions are white boxes, the new ones boxes would have Leopard-esque goodness. I guess they could call it iLife: Leopard Edition for the online sites, but they could leave the "Leopard Edition" off the front of the packaging by just making it Leopard-esque.

The naming procedure is not so simple.
There are at least these points to think of:

iLife Leopard / iLife for Leopard:
+ new naming connotation emphasizes new value
+ refresh the brand
+ version clear
+ Leopard gets extra value
- will there be iLife Leopard v2 before the next OS version?
- how about comptability with previous OS versions

Just iLife:
+ simple, elegant
- no way to differentiate between versions
- needs extra parameters when really sold, not only marketed

iLife 07
+ tells the version
- out of date very soon

iLife 7
+ simplier than 07
- version 7 is not the same than 07 (or is it really by coinsidence?)

iLife n.n (where n.n is a version number)
+ Easy to go in the future
- Apple does not like version numbers in the markiting
- Can be counfused with previous iLife versions. New iLife 5.0 just out! But I already have 06!

iLife: Leopard edition
+ same good reasons than "iLife Leopard"
- more complicated than just "iLife Leopard" ad not so striking

iLife Rev./Revision Leopard
+ could be more Apple-like than "edition"
+ like iMac Rev. A or imac Rev B.
- Rev. reminds too much "internal term". Not so good for the marketing.

iLife 8 or 08
+ progressive, longer refreshness
- not so honest, what happened to 07?

Then there is even possibility for a combination : iLife 07 Leopard. This is already slightly too complicated to be really Applesque.

My bet is "iLife Leopard", if the iLife really comes at the same time than the new OS. They need to have extra marketing for the new OS version because of Vista. And for the same reason iLife/iWork could be extremely Leopard-like.

Anything except Millenium Edition, sorry, Leopard Edition would do fine for me, for obvious reasons :) .

[Plumbstone]

I just hope the Mac Pros are updated before then. I could really use one!

bring 'em on. I am much more interested in some super powerful hardware than a few new and updated features on what is already a great OS.

I need more power.....

[Vinnie_vw]

As far as the "new features" go, I'm sure Apple pulled a similar stunt to the way they developed the iPhone OS, by splitting features from developer builds and having different testers test different parts, and none but Steve knowing the complete end-result. So yeah, there's a good chance that Leopard will look very different than testers are leaking and "the media" is reporting.

[Erasmus®]

does anyone know what the price of leopard will be? possibly in Euros :D

[wordmunger]

If iLife and iWork are bundled with Leopard, look for a price increase on Leopard.

[DB2k]

I think one of the "surprises" will be the inclusion of iWork as standard with Leopard.

Bit pointless for a lot of people tho? I admit I haven't used that suite but do you think that will add a lot to it?

I do like the theory tho - the "new unannounced feature(s)" could easily be the inclusion of iLife/iWork which would make more sense as its less work to include a standard app/suite over trying to get a special new feature out without it being included and tested in the developer builds.

[koobcamuk]

Spring in the Northern Hemisphere is from March 21 to June 21.

And because most people live in the Northern Hemisphere, it's become convention.

I am sure that the dwellers in the Southern Hemishpere are all use to this by now. :rolleyes:

Furthermore, I told someone it wouldn't come in April - so what do I get? I said I would give my iMac if it happens... where's my offer ;) No chance are you getting it.

[tiramisu]

I think one of the "surprises" will be the inclusion of iWork as standard with Leopard.

totally agree :)

[MacVault]

I think one of the "surprises" will be the inclusion of iWork as standard with Leopard.

Oh, that's just great :mad: We've all been expecting awsome, revelutionary "Top Secret Features" in Leopard. Now you're saying a big part of this "top secret features" will be iWork - which at least as far as I've seen is the biggest piece of junk bunch of software to come out of Apple in a long time.:mad:... Keynote looks pretty good, but there's only one other app in the suite, Pages, and it is a total, featureless, piece of junk. This should by no means be included in Leopard as a "Top Secret Feature". What a JOKE :mad:

[Nym]

IMO iLife should be part of OSX.

Why?

Because with Mac's things are supposed to "just work", you can make your home videos, create your own songs, build a website bla bla bla. The thing is, this is NOT a bundled feature of OSX, if you buy a used Mac and decide to get Leopard you have to 75$ on top of it just to create the kind of content that Apple makes sound so "native" and "out of the box".
I'm just saying this because, when I took the plunge and bought the 24" iMac, I only knew afterwards that iLife was bundled with every Mac purchased but not with OSX itself. I was reading a OSX Vs Windows comparasion chart and a lot of topics won or tied by the PC side were like "No native photo editing program", and I was like "what about iphoto?" oops, not bundled with OSX.. And more examples that prove OSX has much more value with iLife inside, check them out if you'd like:

www.xvsxp.com (http://www.xvsxp.com)

From what I know about Apple I think it's not like them to divide products when there is no real need to do so.

My humble opinion. It should be: Leopard (with iLife included) - 200$.

*As for the release date.. I've been saying June ever since the WWDC 07 date was announced :)

[zblaxberg]

like no one knew this already?!

this is old news!

[Father Jack]

Only time will tell.

FJ

[shikimo]

personally, i was all whatever about the big cat "code-names"... no big deal, they're just "code-names"... untill of course the big cat code-names stuck like hot gum on a tennis shoe, and even Apple started (and continues) to present these code-names as reverent... ok ok, sure it's more creative, and very Apple-like, to name products instead of number them, 'cause "Leopard" is less confusing to consumers than "Mac OS 10.5"... but for serious, those big cat names have been around long enough and have got to go... honestly Apple...

why stop at renaming the iLife Suite... i hope one of the unexpected surprises of "Leopard" is a name change... :rolleyes:

Long live the cat names.

I hope they ride them all the way to OS 15.5 Domestic Short-Hair.

meow.

[goosnarrggh]

Hmmm..not that I can recall...AppleWorks did, but that didn't necessarily come with all Macs....

GraphicConverter is good for simple image creation/manipulation.

MacPaint was bundled with the original Macintosh. It was discontinued in 1988.

[Father Jack]

Long live the cat names.

I hope they ride them all the way to OS 15.5 Domestic Short-Hair.

meow.
I don't think 10.6 "Tasha" will catch on either :)

FJ

[k2k koos]

Ugghhh......here we go again. :rolleyes:

I couldn't wait anymore, I ordered my MacPro yesterday. :D

Wise decision, good choice, and enjoy!

[BornAgainMac]

Apple please don't do this....


Leopard Standard: OS 1.5
Leopard Web: OS 1.5, iWeb, iPhoto
Leapard Web Premium: OS 1.5, iWeb, iPhoto, iMovie, Garageband
Leopard Home: OS 1.5, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iWork Standard
Leopard Professional: OS 1.5, iWork Professional, Safari Pro

....

[bewing77]

Spring in the Northern Hemisphere is from March 21 to June 21.

I don't know who decided that, over here, in Sweden, we celebrate midsummer at June 22nd, which is the day where the amount of daylight is the greatest. That is definatly not spring to me.

[MacVault]

WTF?!... Looks like the EMI & Steve Jobs Webcast is only available in Window Media or Real Player! WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! Why are webmasters/managers so stupid?! These are two of the WORST technologies on the internet!

[Konradx]

Guess im ordering a "Leopard mini" in june. Hopefully by this time the mini has been updated.

[daneoni]

Might as well call it iLife 07.5 or iLife late-07 while they're at it. Its like 6 months late....or will be at least

[bryanc]

I don't know who decided that, over here, in Sweden, we celebrate midsummer at June 22nd, which is the day where the amount of daylight is the greatest. That is definatly not spring to me.

The vernal equinox (June 21) is the shortest night in the northern hemisphere, and it defines the first day of summer.

I have predicted Apple will show Leopard at the WWDC Keynote (June 11), and announce it will be shipping by June 20th since last WWDC, where Jobs said 'Spring 2007'. To me, it has always been obvious that Spring 2007 gives them until June 20, and they're going to take as much time as they can to avoid releasing a buggy product.

The question is, can they keep the secrecy while throughly testing Leopard. I don't see how they can.

Cheers

[CoreWeb]

Might as well call it iLife 07.5 or iLife late-07 while they're at it. Its like 6 months late....or will be at least

They might just name them "iLife" and "iWork", without any additions, and bundle them in with Leopard. Improves the "single package" idea, and is 100% opposite from Microsoft; imagine: "Now you get an operating system and office suite for $150. Compare that to Microsoft. We were trying to order Vista to test iTunes on and couldn't figure out which version to buy. Then we had to buy office on top of that. It cost us thousands."

[akadmon]

That is a mistake. Can't you just wait for another two or three months for OX 10.5 and a faster/better macbook pro? That's what I'm going to do. Wait and wait.

This is what a lot of people were saying back in November when I got my Mac Pro. So while they've been waiting and waiting, people like me have been having fun with with our "soon to be obsolete" Macs. Nyah Nyah!!!:D

[GregA]

New stuff that touches on entirely new business areas might be worth keeping secret--but not once it's being widely tested. There are no secrets then.

I found this post by MacPomme very interesting
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3492356#post3492356

While he may be wrong, he makes some great points. Well worth reading.

As he says - Apple may have tied the new OS development into some new hardware developments (just as the iPhone ties software and hardware development together). If this was so, a demonstration of Leopard would stop people buying the old hardware.

[liv4Mac]

Big Surprise. :rolleyes:

This is not news - this is obvious.

You are quite right. If one does not see leopard here then they are blind
http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/tracks/

[Mgkwho]

Yeah but the one thing about this post that reverses the trend is the line "Leopard is shaping up to be a more significant release than anyone expected, with much more to come than any of the developer builds have led on."

People recently have been saying there are no "top secret" features.

We'll see, we'll see.

Whets your appetite even more, still, though doesn't it? :)

-=|Mgkwho

[syklee26]

I found this post by MacPomme very interesting
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3492356#post3492356

While he may be wrong, he makes some great points. Well worth reading.

As he says - Apple may have tied the new OS development into some new hardware developments (just as the iPhone ties software and hardware development together). If this was so, a demonstration of Leopard would stop people buying the old hardware.


what he said was exactly the reason i believed that Jobs said there were some secret features he would not reveal. With that said, there are couple things that bothered me.

1. Tiger handles handwriting anyway.
2. MS is not a hardware maker. Vista-hardware integration is much more difficult.

[Porchland]

It would be nice to see iLife come with Leopard, I suppose if it calls iLife and iWork "Leopard" editions, we will be seeing less frequent major updates to these suites? May be Apple was using too many resources to get the frequent updates out in time for January?

The iLife apps -- and iPhoto in particular -- have gotten so functional and user-friendly that much more than GUI tweaking would just junk them up. Although there's always room for incremental improvement, I didn't think there's a single must-have feature that iPhoto does not already have.

[Nym]

The iLife apps -- and iPhoto in particular -- have gotten so functional and user-friendly that much more than GUI tweaking would just junk them up. Although there's always room for incremental improvement, I didn't think there's a single must-have feature that iPhoto does not already have.

I disagree, iPhoto lacks the basic ability to "Hide" or "Password Lock" certain albums (aka Picasa Style), I for one find this absolutely necessary.

I believe this should also extend to the whole OS, Finder should give you the ability to Protect whatever folders you like, so that when you double click them to open, a password input box would appear, the same dialog it gives me when trying to install certain applications or make changes to System Preferences.

Privacy is getting harder to maintain in the digital era, I think Apple needs to start thinking about this, and No, different user accounts are not enough :)

[elppa]

I don't think iLife version 7 would work, because I only count 3 version '04, '05 and '06.

iLife:Leopard Edition needn't have a name if it is bundled with the OS.



For people questioning the worth of the article, I think it makes a number of interesting points:

The release will come at the tail end of spring, which ends June 21.

So people who were going for June release weren't wrong.

As recently as January Apple had been targeting a ship date of end March.

But that doesn't mean those who were suggesting a March date were wrong either, as this was in the plans.

"Leopard is shaping up to be a more significant release than anyone expected, with much more to come than any of the developer builds have led on," one source said.

This is what many suspected and may explain the somewhat incomplete/lack of polish nature of the dev builds (I haven't tried one, I'm going off reports). I still think we'll get a new GUI, but I don't want to open another can of worms.

Apple is toying with the idea of bundling one or both suites with the new operating system free of charge.

I think this is fair, I mean at the moment the Digital Photo capabilities of Tiger extend to Image Viewer and there if nothing for Movie/DVD creation, whereas in Windows Vista (providing you get the right version — Home Basic Standard Give Balmer All Your Cash Premium Ultimate — or whatever it's called!?) all these are included as features.

The addition of a new spreadsheet application.

Again useful as it is consistent with what we have been hearing elsewhere.

[elppa]

Apple please don't do this....


Leopard Standard: OS 1.5
Leopard Web: OS 1.5, iWeb, iPhoto
Leapard Web Premium: OS 1.5, iWeb, iPhoto, iMovie, Garageband
Leopard Home: OS 1.5, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iWork Standard
Leopard Professional: OS 1.5, iWork Professional, Safari Pro

....

Leopard Home Basic: No Core Animation, No 64-bit, No Spaces

[brianus]

Very true. That's why I don't like Microsoft's product names.

NAMES- VISTA, XP- Don't give a sense of where it falls in time
YEARS- Office 2003, Office 2007- Appear out of date after time, especially when new releases aren't annual
NUMBERS- 10.4, 10.5- Give a sense of what came first/what comes next AND don't prematurely appear out of date

Well, to be fair..

NAMES- TIGER, LEOPARD- Don't give a sense of where it falls in time
YEARS- iLife '05, iWork '06
NUMBERS: MS actually does have these (you can find them in Windows' well-hidden equivalent of the "About this Mac" window), they just aren't as well known:

Vista = Windows 6.0
XP = Windows 5.0 (5.1 = SP1; 5.2 = SP2)
ME = Windows 4.9
98 = Windows 4.5
95 = Windows 4.0

[GregA]

The iLife apps -- and iPhoto in particular -- have gotten so functional and user-friendly that much more than GUI tweaking would just junk them up. Although there's always room for incremental improvement, I didn't think there's a single must-have feature that iPhoto does not already have.

While the individual applications don't have far to go, the whole method of interacting with media could be shifted.

eg: Why not merge iPhoto's slideshows with iMovie (either conceptually, or at a program level):
Think about the photo bar of a slideshow. It's a series of photos across the top of the screen - similar to the timeline in iMovie. Why not display the transitions between photos just like iMovie does, and allow the same editing options? And add a sound bar for the music in the slideshow. You could import video clips amongst the stills, and add the iMovie photo-effects that were demo'd in iMovie 06 ('family holiday snaps'). If you do that, how close are you to iMovie?

iMovie also needs better integration with AppleTV, and better movie sharing. Imagine a hybrid of online backups, with publishing online (like .Mac + youTube). For published movies with popular music, perhaps an option in iMovie to buy rights to the songs in the iMovie (for non-commercial use only).

iDVD - this could expand as the means for sharing your media with others.
It could have 5 burn options - all operating with menus etc like a regular DVD if you choose.
1) regular DVD, as it is now
2) high def DVD (h264 on regular DVD as specified by WB)
3) an iWeb page
4) a h264 .MP4 file that works on the AppleTV.
Could we share iMovies or slideshows to .Mac via the iDVD interface?

Garage band? Not sure, don't really use it. Perhaps better combinations of music for your movies.

iTunes: Not sure what to change. But ... why does the iPod/AppleTV sync happen from here?

Overall - we need a media management system for some libraries that are getting unwieldy, spread across multiple machines, and growing beyond the capacities of our hard disk.

[sigamy]

Running Windows app directly under Leopard. Windows as the new Classic.

[Evangelion]

WTF?!... Looks like the EMI & Steve Jobs Webcast is only available in Window Media or Real Player! WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF! Why are webmasters/managers so stupid?! These are two of the WORST technologies on the internet!

Dude: just relax.

[johnee]

June is going to be a HUGE month for Apple. It can't get here fast enough!!!

I agree, and with all the people waiting to buy when leopard is released, the ship dates will be ridiculously far away

[iowamensan]

The biggest thing iPhoto is missing is preview before import. If I have 250 pictures on my memory card, and I just want the last photo brought in to iPhoto, I want a preview of what is on the camera so I can choose what to import, especially if I don't want the other 249 pictures on my computer. My old OS9 Olympus Camedia software could do this, I still can't believe it isn't in iPhoto yet.

[GregA]

... all the people waiting to buy when leopard is released...

It'd be nice for Apple to sell OSX online, wouldn't it? Via an Apple endorsed bittorrent-based technology.

[05elstonc]

Apple wants to make major improvements to the UI of iLife using Core Animation. In order to do this it HAS to be Leopard only. The best way to spur adoption of Leopard and iLife is to bundle them. This makes fantastic sense. Makes Leopard a strong story for the press iLife + Leopard.

[Diatribe]

I found this post by MacPomme very interesting
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3492356#post3492356

While he may be wrong, he makes some great points. Well worth reading.

As he says - Apple may have tied the new OS development into some new hardware developments (just as the iPhone ties software and hardware development together). If this was so, a demonstration of Leopard would stop people buying the old hardware.

Thanks for posting that, interesting read. There is definintely more to Leopard than we know.

[odedia]

I think iLife will become a part of Leopard itself, and stop being sold as a seperate product.

Microsoft Windows Vista include many programs that rival iLife products, so Apple has to repond accordinally.

Oded S.

[Mgkwho]

I say end of May...give at least 2 weeks for developers! (Though they've been using the beta for a while).

-=|Mgkwho

[Diatribe]

BTW, AppleGazette is also posting the multi-touch rumor.

Linky (http://www.applegazette.com/os-x/rumor-apple-to-reveal-multi-touch-in-leopard-at-nab/)

[Mgkwho]

I think iLife will become a part of Leopard itself, and stop being sold as a seperate product.

iLife comes with new Macs right now...I agree with you it should just come with the OS.

Though iWork is a pro app, and should be somewhat separate.

-=|Mgkwho

[macinfojunkie]

Anyone else having trouble connecting to the apple store web site? I get an error message for both UK and US sites - not the usual we're busy updaint banner. I know this is not an issue with my connection, otherwise I would not be able to post this.

[Diatribe]

Anyone else having trouble connecting to the apple store web site? I get an error message for both UK and US sites - not the usual we're busy updaint banner. I know this is not an issue with my connection, otherwise I would not be able to post this.

I can't even connect to the Apple website...

[twoodcc]

i really hope that this isn't true.....i don't wanna wait that long....:(

[pgwalsh]

I think iLife will become a part of Leopard itself, and stop being sold as a seperate product.

Oded S.

I hope you're right. I think I would try it at that point. However, I'll still need word and excel because of all the damn macro's I have.

[macinfojunkie]

I can't even connect to the Apple website...

I can connect to apple.com but the store gives a Http/1.1 Service Unavailable message and the Apple discussion boards are resonding very slowly if at all. I'm guessing a technical problem rather than t new product/update :-(

It can't be the flood of people updating to DRM free music since that is not possible until next month.

[pgwalsh]

iLife comes with new Macs right now...I agree with you it should just come with the OS.

Though iWork is a pro app, and should be somewhat separate.

-=|MgkwhoWell I bought a Mac Pro and I only have a trial version of iLife, so perhaps it just comes with consumer models?

[Chris Bangle]

someones killed the apple store

[Mgkwho]

Yeah the Apple website is fine, but the store returns that http/1.1 that macinfojunkie mentioned for me as well.

-=|Mgkwho

[macinfojunkie]

Well I bought a Mac Pro and I only have a trial version of iLife, so perhaps it just comes with consumer models?

I received a full copy of iLife with my Macbook Pro C2D (and previously with a Power Mac) so it is certainly not limited to the consumer only models. The copy of iWork that came with all the Macs I have purchased since it was available have been trial versions though.

[Diatribe]

I can connect to apple.com but the store gives a Http/1.1 Service Unavailable message and the Apple discussion boards are resonding very slowly if at all. I'm guessing a technical problem rather than t new product/update :-(

It can't be the flood of people updating to DRM free music since that is not possible until next month.

Strange though, I don't recall that ever happening.

[05elstonc]

Apple store error for me too.

[shigzeo]

Spring in the Northern Hemisphere is from March 21 to June 21.

i am quite sure too that an american company would have no interest or reason to say spring and refer not to its own borders, but that of a faraway place. either way, it is good as i would rather have it sooner than in october or so...:cool:

[Mgkwho]

Sidetrack alert:

I received a full copy of iLife with my Macbook Pro C2D (and previously with a Power Mac) so it is certainly not limited to the consumer only models.

'Ya know what's weird though? We MBP users (or at least me) didn't get Big Bang games. My sister did on her MB, but not I. :(

-=|Mgkwho

[macinfojunkie]

Sidetrack alert:



'Ya know what's weird though? We MBP users (or at least me) didn't get Big Bang games. My sister did on her MB, but not I. :(

-=|Mgkwho

Maybe it was the equivalent of a Friday afternoon car? :-)

[05elstonc]

Apple store is back up but very slow.

[Mgkwho]

Maybe it was the equivalent of a Friday afternoon car? :-)

I don't get it...

-=|Mgkwho

[Nitromaster]

i hope they start bundling ilife with osx for 200€/$
and a family pack for 250
cant wait for new macbooks,

[Alpinism]

they better giveout free leopard upgrade to all the Pros that are buying the new quad core Mac Pro that will be announced next sunday !!

[macinfojunkie]

I don't get it...

-=|Mgkwho

It used to be a running joke in the auto industry that a car which was sub par - or had some parts missing was constructed during the Friday afternoon shift at the auto plant. The inference being that the workers were rushing it to get out of the door for the weekend.

[Mgkwho]

It used to be a running joke in the auto industry that a car which was sub par - or had some parts missing was constructed during the Friday afternoon shift at the auto plant. The inference being that the workers were rushing it to get out of the door for the weekend.

Oh, HA! What a perfect metaphor for Apple :P.

-=|Mgkwho

[Gaelic1]

Yeah, While I like the idea and I know what they're doing, I hate the potential name. I never was a fan of the "tiger" or "leopard" naming scheme. But whatever, if it's true I'll live.
A rose by any other name is but a rose. Who cares what they call it as long as it performs.:rolleyes:

[whenpaulsparks]

i have never heard of June referred to as spring. granted, i'm from Florida where we only have two seasons (hot... and not-as-hot), but i've always heard that Dec-Jan-Feb was winter, Mar-Apr-May was spring, and Jun-Jul-Aug is summer. saying that June is spring would effectively be saying that December is fall, September (when parts of the country start getting snow) is summer, and March (where it's 90+ degrees here) is winter. i don't buy it.

if anything, june is Q2 2007, not spring.

[dejo]

Thinksecret earlier speculated a March release (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278239). Now they say June. And we should believe them now, why?

[thejadedmonkey]

Boooo too late!
but on the bright side, that means my MacBook Pro'll last longer :)

[digitalbiker]

i have never heard of June referred to as spring. granted, i'm from Florida where we only have two seasons (hot... and not-as-hot), but i've always heard that Dec-Jan-Feb was winter, Mar-Apr-May was spring, and Jun-Jul-Aug is summer. saying that June is spring would effectively be saying that December is fall, September (when parts of the country start getting snow) is summer, and March (where it's 90+ degrees here) is winter. i don't buy it.

if anything, june is Q2 2007, not spring.

You need to study a little astronomy. The first day of summer is June 21st which is also the longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere.

The first day of fall this year is Sept. 23. So summer officially runs 6-21-07 to 9-22-07.

[peharri]

Thinksecret earlier speculated a March release (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278239). Now they say June. And we should believe them now, why?

Perhaps because it makes sense. Since MWSF lacked any Leopard coverage, June (or rather, the next WWDC) has pretty much been the only serious candidate as a Leopard release date.

Leopard is a significant release. If it wasn't, it would have been released last year. There's stuff we haven't seen. To get to the point: Leopard is a release Steve Jobs is going to want to show us, this isn't going to be quietly released as a new item on the Apple Store.

When can Jobs next show things to Mac enthusiasts? WWDC. There's no other candidate. They can't do a special event, because you only get journalists and industry people at special events, not Mac enthusiasts.

It'll be at WWDC.

[peharri]

Anyone else having trouble connecting to the apple store web site? I get an error message for both UK and US sites - not the usual we're busy updaint banner. I know this is not an issue with my connection, otherwise I would not be able to post this.

It's probably people buying Apple TVs after the news (April Fool or no) that you can install full copies of Mac OS X on them... the shop can't keep up.

[dejo]

Perhaps because it makes sense. Since MWSF lacked any Leopard coverage, June (or rather, the next WWDC) has pretty much been the only serious candidate as a Leopard release date.
Hey, I'm not doubting June as a release date. From what I know, that is when I would expect it too. But for Thinksecret to report a new month once their previously predicted one has passed seems circumspect.

[Telp]

Maybe may...mid may would be my guess...Of course i have no clue, and i just want it. June seems farfetched to me, but what do i know.

[jskauppi]

You need to study a little astronomy. The first day of summer is June 21st which is also the longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere.

The first day of fall this year is Sept. 23. So summer officially runs 6-21-07 to 9-22-07.

This must be the definition Apple is using.

However, there is no official definition for Spring. What you're referring to is the astronomical definition. For some reason, many Americans think the astronomical definition is somehow official, and also think other people on the Northern Hemisphere think so, too. (Source: this article (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_170b.html)). In reality, "spring" has multiple definitions - check out this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season).

In Finland, people generally think that "summer" equals June, July and August.
Apple says "Leopard is coming Spring 2007" in the Finnish site, too. I can only hope they really mean that Leopard will ship before June, at least for Finland. ;)

jskauppi

[Telp]

You guys are thinking way to much about the definition of spring. They arent gunna make it some unknown definition of spring just to by themselves more time.

[mrgreen4242]

IMO iLife should be part of OSX.

Why?

Because with Mac's things are supposed to "just work", you can make your home videos, create your own songs, build a website bla bla bla. The thing is, this is NOT a bundled feature of OSX, if you buy a used Mac and decide to get Leopard you have to 75$ on top of it just to create the kind of content that Apple makes sound so "native" and "out of the box".
I'm just saying this because, when I took the plunge and bought the 24" iMac, I only knew afterwards that iLife was bundled with every Mac purchased but not with OSX itself. I was reading a OSX Vs Windows comparasion chart and a lot of topics won or tied by the PC side were like "No native photo editing program", and I was like "what about iphoto?" oops, not bundled with OSX.. And more examples that prove OSX has much more value with iLife inside, check them out if you'd like:

www.xvsxp.com (http://www.xvsxp.com)

From what I know about Apple I think it's not like them to divide products when there is no real need to do so.

My humble opinion. It should be: Leopard (with iLife included) - 200$.

*As for the release date.. I've been saying June ever since the WWDC 07 date was announced :)
I think the argument is that buying a Vista equipped computer doesn't get you any of those things. Buying an OSX equipped one does. Even if you upgrade the OS, your copy of iLife will keep working just like it did before.

The iLife apps -- and iPhoto in particular -- have gotten so functional and user-friendly that much more than GUI tweaking would just junk them up. Although there's always room for incremental improvement, I didn't think there's a single must-have feature that iPhoto does not already have.
I think iPhoto sucks. I made a longish post about it a couple weeks ago, but there is tons of room for improvement in iPhoto.

I think, though, that they should bundle the whole thing together and update it every 2-3 years. The annual iLife updates are a bit much, in my opinion.

[xJulianx]

The annual iLife updates are a bit much, in my opinion.

I agree with that, seems as though there's constant pressure to stay up to date when software is updated.

[corywoolf]

iLife Leprosy, iWork Leprosy
That would just be stupid, keep to the year and just call it iLife/ iWork '08. Apple should really just bundle them both with Leopard, that way you have to upgrade to get the newest iLife/ iWork. Maybe they can have a regular Leopard and then the Leopard Bundle including iLife and iWork can be marked up to $199. Here's to hoping they just build it into Leopard and still charge $129.

[dr_lha]

This must be the timeframe Apple is referring to.

However, there is no official definition for Spring. What you're referring to is the astronomical definition. For some reason, many Americans think the astronomical definition is somehow official, and also think other people on the Northern Hemisphere think so, too.
The fact is that Spring in the USA ends June 20th, and Apple are an American company, so they're not lying. I'm not sure what your definition of "official" is, but to me the Astronomical one is as good as its going to get in terms of defining the seasons. Its certainly better than defining Spring/Summer as "when its hot". Lots of US government websites you will find June 21st referred to as the first day of summer, as well as on calendars in the USA. I don't know how official it has to be for you to accept it, but when Steve Jobs looks at his calendar and sees "June 21st, First day of Summer", you know he thinks - lets aim to release before then, so we can say "Spring 2007".

If you look at the Australian Apple website it states that Leopard is coming "Mid-2007", as obviously they can't say "Spring" in the southern hemisphere.
Its definitely coming in June.

[TheAnswer]

I think, though, that they should bundle the whole thing together and update it every...

I agree with the bundle idea. It would reduce packaging. It makes it easier on development, because Apple doesn't have to worry about supporting the older OS versions in the iLife apps. I think they should throw iWork in there too. I'm not sure what the numbers are like on iWork adoption, but surely the numbers would improve if it was bundled in with the OS.

[Porchland]

i have never heard of June referred to as spring.

Take some time to read any of these forums regarding when Leopard will land. About every three pages, someone will explain the finer astronomical points of why June is still spring (while the rest of us roll our eyes).

Seriously, WWDC is in June. Leopard will either be here by then or be announced and be available shortly thereafter. Move along.

[Telp]

I agree with the bundle idea. It would reduce packaging. It makes it easier on development, because Apple doesn't have to worry about supporting the older OS versions in the iLife apps. I think they should throw iWork in there too. I'm not sure what the numbers are like on iWork adoption, but surely the numbers would improve if it was bundled in with the OS.

They would still have to worry about supporting older OS versions because not everyone updates after every OS update. Some people will skip leopard and just get whatever is after leopard, and apple wouldnt say screw you! cuz you didnt buy leopard

[Porchland]

I think iPhoto sucks. I made a longish post about it a couple weeks ago, but there is tons of room for improvement in iPhoto.


What did you say the problems were?

There are some limitations if you want to use iPhoto as a pro app -- like how it's difficult to set up multiple libraries, lacks Photoshop-level photo editing -- but it's not a pro app. It is intuitive, stable and able to handle a very large photo library, and I couldn't be happier with it as a consumer app.

[TheAnswer]

They would still have to worry about supporting older OS versions because not everyone updates after every OS update. Some people will skip leopard and just get whatever is after leopard, and apple wouldnt say screw you! cuz you didnt buy leopard

But if iLife and iWork suites are bundled with the OS, they don't need to worry about someone running the newer versions on an older OS because they've purchased them together. I'm not talking about dropping support for older versions of the OS or the suites. Just that, during development, they won't have to check if the new version of the suite software works with older versions of the OS if they are sold only as a bundle.

[Telp]

But if iLife and iWork suites are bundled with the OS, they don't need to worry about someone running the newer versions on an older OS because they've purchased them together. I'm not talking about dropping support for older versions of the OS or the suites. Just that, during development, they won't have to check if the new version of the suite software works with older versions of the OS if they are sold only as a bundle.

That doesnt make sense...:D

[pale9]

recently i have been posting some critical comments on apple because the lack of informaion on leopard and ilife etc. yesterday i needed to move some files on the lone dell dimesion that i 'upgraded' with vista ultimte recently. when done, i tried to empty the trashcan that had a whopping 98mb (5 files) in it. after waiting over 30 seconds while vista kept telling me 'computing time to erase files' or something to tht effect, i turned of the machine in disgust. i remembered why i got away from windows in the first place. apple, i will sin no more and patiently wait for leopard's release!

[elppa]

Thinksecret earlier speculated a March release (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278239). Now they say June. And we should believe them now, why?

I don't know if you've had a chance to read the article yet but they do explain this.

Apple were considering releasing it in March, but decided to move the date back.

“Sources privy to the reasons behind the June ship date could tell Think Secret the details only off the record”

I'm not gullible enough to completely rule out the fact this is just a convenient excuse, but we also have to accept that this could be the truth.

[glennyboiwpg]

[QUOTE=MacVault;3505352] Keynote looks pretty good, but there's only one other app in the suite, Pages, and it is a total, featureless, piece of junk. QUOTE]


Ok, i've heard this comment alot about iwork and here is something to consider.... How old is iwork? The reason I say this is, being a programmer myself, products rarely are completely awesome in Version 1.0. Think about it... Office is a great product suite, but it has been around for at least 10 years probably closer to 15. (maybe even longer then that) As far as I know (please polietly correct me if i'm wrong) but iwork is what? 2, 3 years old? So how can it compete?

Give iwork some time! It will get better!

[TheAnswer]

That doesnt make sense...:D

If they are sold as a bundle, Apple will know that:

Everyone who buys iLife version A (where A is a variable = version number) has OS version A and vice versa (because they won't be sold separately).

Therefore, when developing iLife version A they don't have to worry about it running on versions of the OS prior to version A, because they know the customer has version A (because they've bought them together).

I think they will check that version A of the OS is capable of running versions of iLife prior to A, in case people want to run an older version of an iLife app...but the features of the new iLife version could be tied to and/or require the OS version that they were bundled with.

[penguy]

What did you say the problems were?

There are some limitations if you want to use iPhoto as a pro app -- like how it's difficult to set up multiple libraries, lacks Photoshop-level photo editing -- but it's not a pro app. It is intuitive, stable and able to handle a very large photo library, and I couldn't be happier with it as a consumer app.


I use iPhoto as well, but my main gripe is the lack of a batch processing feature, or even the option to apply previous photos changes (similar to Adobe Lightroom). The more pics I take, I find that the same changes could apply to a series of pictures rather than just one...
Also, and some of this is due to the limitations of my Mini, but now that I am shooting RAW and have over 10,000 photos, iPhoto gets sluggish at times.

but you are correct...as a consumer app, it's great.

[SimonTheSoundMa]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

ThinkSecret reports (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0704leopardjune.html) that Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) will ship in June 2007. This would bring it just within Apple's official "Spring 2007" release date.

Spring has passed in June and summer is in full swing for the northern hemisphere. I would say it has been delayed.

[johnee]

Spring has passed in June and summer is in full swing for the northern hemisphere. I would say it has been delayed.

What don't you people understand about the seasons?
in vermont, we still have snow on the ground. spring has not passed, and for us it really hasn't even started. now i'm pissing myself off :mad:

anyway, SPRING ENDS IN JUNE 21!

[k2k koos]

.

Speaking of Leopard, iLife and iwork, what ever happened to Macs having a built-in basic art program? When did the Mac version of Microsoft's Paint disappear? Didn't old systems have a paint program?

Good point, I had forgotten about Macpaint etc :-)

So what about it Apple, Could we please have a new paint program called iBrush ? Pencil,crayon,marker,airbrush,brush roller FX,loads of core animation and core image functions, all tightly integrated with the rest of the iLife suite to create living pictures, sketches, for starters :-)

[k2k koos]

I use iPhoto as well, but my main gripe is the lack of a batch processing feature, or even the option to apply previous photos changes (similar to Adobe Lightroom). The more pics I take, I find that the same changes could apply to a series of pictures rather than just one...
Also, and some of this is due to the limitations of my Mini, but now that I am shooting RAW and have over 10,000 photos, iPhoto gets sluggish at times.

but you are correct...as a consumer app, it's great.

I haven't upgraded my iLife programs for a bit, but may do when Leopard comes out, what I want to know, is it possible to have my photo library on another drive, like I can do in iTunes? iPhoto version that I have, can't specify the location of the library, it all goes straight on the main harddrive...

[Telp]

If they are sold as a bundle, Apple will know that:

Everyone who buys iLife version A (where A is a variable = version number) has OS version A and vice versa (because they won't be sold separately).

Therefore, when developing iLife version A they don't have to worry about it running on versions of the OS prior to version A, because they know the customer has version A (because they've bought them together).

I think they will check that version A of the OS is capable of running versions of iLife prior to A, in case people want to run an older version of an iLife app...but the features of the new iLife version could be tied to and/or require the OS version that they were bundled with.

That still doesn't explain about the people that dont upgrade, do they get verson B?

[TheAnswer]

That still doesn't explain about the people that don't upgrade, do they get verson B?

Not unless they buy the new OS version B and iLife version B bundle.

Like I said, I think selling them only as a bundle where the iLife apps can fully leverage the new features of a new OS version makes sense for a lot of reasons (simplifying development, packaging, marketing, etc).

Of course only Apple has the numbers as to how many people skip OS versions but continue to upgrade the iLife suites (or vice versa)...if there are a significant number of people who are running older OS versions but current versions of iLife, then that would be a serious factor for Apple to consider.

[Clive At Five]

Thinksecret earlier speculated a March release (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=278239). Now they say June. And we should believe them now, why?

ThinkSecret, believe it or not, often has reliable sources. I remeber a couple years ago they nailed a MWSF square on the head, weeks in advance.

To think that product timeframes don't change would be naive. Look at "Longhorn..." It got pushed back two years. At least ThinkSecret didn't initially say January like MANY other sources around the net. The don't tell people just what they want to hear like SOME... I'm talking about you AppleInsider (or should I say "Shaw Wu Insider"). Digitimes is just plain wrong. ThinkSecret is typically reliable when it comes to rumors, although slow to report on new news items, which causes people to give it a bad rap. I see so many "We knew this two days ago" posts in the comments it's not even funny.

Give TS a chance as a rumor site.

-Clive

[Telp]

Not unless they buy the new OS version B and iLife version B bundle.

Like I said, I think selling them only as a bundle where the iLife apps can fully leverage the new features of a new OS version makes sense for a lot of reasons (simplifying development, packaging, marketing, etc).

Of course only Apple has the numbers as to how many people skip OS versions but continue to upgrade the iLife suites (or vice versa)...if there are a significant number of people who are running older OS versions but current versions of iLife, then that would be a serious factor for Apple to consider.

Apple wouldnt sell multiple versions of the same operatine system like microsoft did with Vista. Its not how Apple works. But hey, you can think whatever you want to think.

[TheAnswer]

Apple wouldnt sell multiple versions of the same operatine system like microsoft did with Vista. Its not how Apple works. But hey, you can think whatever you want to think.

No...not multiple versions of the OS at the same time. One version...(version A = Leopard), then the next version (version B = Insert Cat Name Here) a year or two later.

I'm not suggesting complicating the product matrix, but simplifying it by no longer offering new versions of iLife (and possibly iWork too) except with the OS. You get a version of the OS and iLife with your Mac when you buy it, then you go to the store and pickup a new version of the OS and iLife in one package when they update it. Simple.

[matticus008]

i have never heard of June referred to as spring. [...] saying that June is spring would effectively be saying that December is fall, September (when parts of the country start getting snow) is summer, and March (where it's 90+ degrees here) is winter. i don't buy it.
News flash! The first ~3 weeks of December IS fall, and Winter extends into March. The seasons have nothing to do with the weather. How could they? Climate is different all over the world. Seasons aren't--just the popular "feeling" of the weather, which is undefined and varies from person to person. Consult a calendar, and you'll see the dates labeled.
You guys are thinking way to much about the definition of spring. They arent gunna make it some unknown definition of spring just to by themselves more time.
Exactly. Spring is March 19-22 to June 19-22. That's the only definition that exists. Everything else is nothing more than folksy intuition or local tradition.

However, there is no official definition for Spring. What you're referring to is the astronomical definition.
What the Straight Dope article fails to recognize is that seasons based on weather variations are inherently uneven across the world. This is why the IAU established an international, uniform definition based on the motion of the planet (which is indeed the cause of shifts in weather, but the effects are not direct or immediate). Thus, this is the only convention on seasons and is the only "officially recognized" international dating system. Also, as pointed out, there is no question on the convention in the US, where Apple is located.
For some reason, many Americans think the astronomical definition is somehow official, and also think other people on the Northern Hemisphere think so, too.
And for some reason, many people can't seem to accept that Apple is an American company, which will conform to American standards in product announcements and make reference to American beliefs. People here generally "think" summer hits in May, but that's because May to October are more or less identical in climate.

It should be obvious that Apple would not make an announcement based on anticipated weather conditions. It would make a calendar-based announcement. The astronomical definition is the ONLY calendared one.

[penguy]

I haven't upgraded my iLife programs for a bit, but may do when Leopard comes out, what I want to know, is it possible to have my photo library on another drive, like I can do in iTunes? iPhoto version that I have, can't specify the location of the library, it all goes straight on the main harddrive...


I upgraded to iPhoto 6 and it does allow you to use more than one library, or to locate the library on a different drive. It is not intuitive, but it does allow it. Someone here can probably provide the correct sequence, but I believe you hold either CTRL or the apple command while starting iPhoto and it will ask you what library to open.

I have over 35 gb of photos, so it was becoming impractical on an 80 gb internal on my Mini. I switched it over to a FW 250 gb and now I'm happy. I'll see if I can find the proper command.

[TheAnswer]

Spring is March 19-22 to June 19-22. That's the only definition that exists.

Not the only definition...they could push the date past the vernal equinox and still release it in spring...of course, they would have to either package it in these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_%28device%29) or release it from one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_%28hydrosphere%29). :D

[killr_b]

June and Spring do not exist at the same time. Ever. No matter which hemisphere you are on. :rolleyes:

[k2k koos]

I upgraded to iPhoto 6 and it does allow you to use more than one library, or to locate the library on a different drive. It is not intuitive, but it does allow it. Someone here can probably provide the correct sequence, but I believe you hold either CTRL or the apple command while starting iPhoto and it will ask you what library to open.

I have over 35 gb of photos, so it was becoming impractical on an 80 gb internal on my Mini. I switched it over to a FW 250 gb and now I'm happy. I'll see if I can find the proper command.

Thanks , that's good to know. I still have iLife '05, suited me fine, but I would like to transfer my photo's to an external drive too. No where near as much as you, but I don't want to copy all when I do get such a library, besides, on an external drive, you can hook it up to several different Macs, or even have it available on a network perhaps (via a new airport extreme), has anyone done this? By the way, why doesn't that base station support airtunes, like the express does, would make so much sense....I know, we have the :apple: TV now, but still......

[matticus008]

Not the only definition...they could push the date past the vernal equinox and still release it in spring...of course, they would have to either package it in these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_&#37;28device%29) or release it from one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_%28hydrosphere%29). :D
Touch&#233;. ;)
June and Spring do not exist at the same time. Ever. No matter which hemisphere you are on. :rolleyes:
Check your calendar, buddy. You seem to be confused.

[SiliconAddict]

All I know is if Apple can get their networking to not umm how to phrase this...suck like a black hole eating a galaxy...I would quit my job, and camp out in front of an Apple store three weeks before launch to be the first to get it. OS X and using network shares is driving me fracking nuts. It is easily the biggest cause of hard freeze ups in OS X. As an example. Woke my laptop up 2 days ago, noticed I was still connected to my Win XP desktop and hit the little eject button. But I hit it before the system had re established its connection to my WIFI network and started beachballing. Let it sit there for 5 minutes nothing. The UI was totally nonresponsive and :apple: - ALT - ESC didn't do jack. So there I sat with a frozen laptop. Let it sit for another 10. Nothing. Seriously Apple. Get your **** together with Finder. Its a damn joke. A dang network share should NOT freeze your GUI.

[Porchland]

Seriously Apple. Get your **** together with Finder. Its a damn joke. A dang network share should NOT freeze your GUI.

Somebody's got a case of the Mondays.

[iJawn108]

Ugghhh..."iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard"? Someone help them choose better names! :eek:

I'm impatiently waiting to find out what the new features are!

iLife Leap and iWork Leap :P

[EagerDragon]

I think iLife will become a part of Leopard itself, and stop being sold as a seperate product.

Microsoft Windows Vista include many programs that rival iLife products, so Apple has to repond accordinally.

Oded S.

Charge $20 more for OSX with iLife and iWorks build in. Maybe they are being integrated and that is why, we have not seen them yet. They are part of Leopard.

[dejo]

Ugghhh..."iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard"? Someone help them choose better names! :eek:
iLife Sucks and iWork 4TheMoney? :D ;)

[chrisflew]

.

[EricNau]

All I know is if Apple can get their networking to not umm how to phrase this...suck like a black hole eating a galaxy...I would quit my job, and camp out in front of an Apple store three weeks before launch to be the first to get it. OS X and using network shares is driving me fracking nuts. It is easily the biggest cause of hard freeze ups in OS X. As an example. Woke my laptop up 2 days ago, noticed I was still connected to my Win XP desktop and hit the little eject button. But I hit it before the system had re established its connection to my WIFI network and started beachballing. Let it sit there for 5 minutes nothing. The UI was totally nonresponsive and :apple: - ALT - ESC didn't do jack. So there I sat with a frozen laptop. Let it sit for another 10. Nothing. Seriously Apple. Get your **** together with Finder. Its a damn joke. A dang network share should NOT freeze your GUI.
I agree. Apple really needs to work on their networking.

I've experienced your same problem, as well as another. I can't open 'Network' in finder. If I go to the Go menu and select "Network," nothing happens. If I click on the "Network" icon in Finder, nothing happens. The only method that sometimes works is selecting "Network" from the sidebar.

Keep in mind, this is an entirely Mac network (all running Tiger), with a wireless Apple BS, and this problem occurs on more than one computer.

No excuses Apple.

[pavelbure]

what kind of world is this where people can't even look on a calender and see that summer starts on june 20th or 21st.

ps, i'm too lazy to look and see if it is 20 or 21.:)

[bankshot]

I need a new machine sooner than later and I don't think I can wait until June. Do I have to wait until 30 days within release? Thoughts?

In the past, you've always had to buy your Mac after the new OS X released date was announced. Don't listen to the people who say 30 days -- that's a common myth, and it's wrong (based on all past history). Typically there's been about 2 weeks in between announce date and release date. If you buy during that window, you should be able to get Leopard for a nominal fee like $20. If you buy after that window, either your Mac will have Leopard preinstalled, or (if it's very soon after) they'll drop Leopard install discs into the package.

Of course, Apple could change everything, but they've been pretty consistent on this so far.

[bankshot]

The biggest thing iPhoto is missing is preview before import. If I have 250 pictures on my memory card, and I just want the last photo brought in to iPhoto, I want a preview of what is on the camera so I can choose what to import, especially if I don't want the other 249 pictures on my computer. My old OS9 Olympus Camedia software could do this, I still can't believe it isn't in iPhoto yet.

Yeah, I lost a weekend's worth of photos because of this. I was alternately taking photos in batches of 20-30, then importing. My memory card has enough room for roughly 250 photos at highest quality, but I still made iPhoto delete the photos on the memory card after each import. Otherwise each successive import would have taken that much longer as it first scanned through all the old photos I already had (this is with a fairly old Canon D30 with only USB 1.1). Then a couple days later the Mac hard drive died, just before I was about to back them up! :( If iPhoto had let me pick and choose which photos to import based on previews, I'd have kept them all on the memory card.

I've been using mostly iPhoto lately, but I recall that the Image Capture application still lets you preview before importing. Might give that a try.

[Chef Medeski]

IMO iLife should be part of OSX.

Why?

Because with Mac's things are supposed to "just work", you can make your home videos, create your own songs, build a website bla bla bla. The thing is, this is NOT a bundled feature of OSX, if you buy a used Mac and decide to get Leopard you have to 75$ on top of it just to create the kind of content that Apple makes sound so "native" and "out of the box".
I'm just saying this because, when I took the plunge and bought the 24" iMac, I only knew afterwards that iLife was bundled with every Mac purchased but not with OSX itself. I was reading a OSX Vs Windows comparasion chart and a lot of topics won or tied by the PC side were like "No native photo editing program", and I was like "what about iphoto?" oops, not bundled with OSX.. And more examples that prove OSX has much more value with iLife inside, check them out if you'd like:

www.xvsxp.com (http://www.xvsxp.com)

From what I know about Apple I think it's not like them to divide products when there is no real need to do so.

My humble opinion. It should be: Leopard (with iLife included) - 200$.

*As for the release date.. I've been saying June ever since the WWDC 07 date was announced :)
Im pretty sure iPhoto 2 is free. So is iTunes. And I think iMovie 1 is free. So, you cant burn DVDs or make Webpages. So what. If you bought a Mac in the past 5 yrs, it comes with a more recent version of these softwares including iDVD I believe and upgrading to Leopard wont remove those. So, technically they are built-in. Its just an old-version.

[Benjamindaines]

Ugghhh..."iLife Leopard" and "iWork Leopard"? Someone help them choose better names! :eek:
Almost as bad as Office XP ;)

[Chef Medeski]

Apple please don't do this....


Leopard Standard: OS 1.5
Leopard Web: OS 1.5, iWeb, iPhoto
Leapard Web Premium: OS 1.5, iWeb, iPhoto, iMovie, Garageband
Leopard Home: OS 1.5, iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, iWork Standard
Leopard Professional: OS 1.5, iWork Professional, Safari Pro

....

Umm... iTunes is free for all computers. So, difference between web premium and Home is iWork. Definetly go with Home. Only musicians use Garageband. iWrodk Pro, Safari Pro, please they can hardly create a full suite for iWork, let alone two different suites. And Safari Pro, who would buy that when itll probably just be a shiny version of Firefox.

Oh and this scheme would turn into the Vista problem with way to complicated options. I say keep them separate. Maybe only release with each new OS version. But still keep them separate. Maybe included with the release but with the option to purchase the iLife on its own. Id think that would be good. Leopard with iLife: Leopard edition included. Or buy iLife seperate if your happy with Tiger/Panther. Nice solution.

[MacIllini]

Leopard by "Spring 2007" huh?
May, June, July... whatever. Just release it when it's done and right. No need to rush it half-assd ready like [hrmphMicrosoftehem] some other company :p

[SiliconAddict]

Somebody's got a case of the Mondays.

Nope. Just a case of [insert day I have an issue with OS X]s.

[ddaniel]

1st post... Hello all.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned NAB in mid April. It seems likely if the June release is true that it could be announced there.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the "secret feature" of Leopard was integration with Multi-touch, ie Multitouch Macbook Pro's.

Apple has said how many features of Leopard haven't been seen. They have also said that CS3 would be updated after the release of Leopard, implying features nobody has seen yet. It doesn't make sense in my mind for Apple to make such a big deal about the importance of multi-touch and limit it to only one of their products (iPhone).

A multi-touch MBP would make me giddy. I do a lot of graphics work, and a touchscreen would be ideal. The only things holding me back from getting a Windows Tablet PC is the fact that none of them have anything above integrated graphics and none of them have good screen res.

Hope this post made sense... i'm kinda out of it

[laurim]

I don't know if this adds anything concrete but I just attended an Apple, Adobe and others event. The guy from Apple alluded to Leopard coming out in a few weeks. He didn't actually say it but 1) he said that Apple tends to underpromise and overdeliver on timelines and 2) he made a slip (intentionally?) when he said "when Leopard comes out in a few weeks, um, I mean, a few months" with a big grin. So, I still have hope for a release earlier than June. The money is burning a hole in my pocket for a new MacPro, MacBook Pro and CS3! Broke city here I come...

P.S. At this event, I also got a free copy of a piece of software called Crossover from a company called CodeWeavers. It allows an Intel mac user to use a large variety of Windows-based apps, including Office, Outlook and some games, without having Windows installed whatsoever. The company is a major member of an open source project called Wine that has been making pc programs available to Linux machines and now that Macs are Intel-based they have brought this capability to the mac. Doesn't work for every single Windows app yet but an impressive number of major ones and it isn't emulation, you use the mac finder as usual, no switching back and forth, etc. Can't wait to get an Intel mac and try it out!

[jumpinjohn]

Touché. ;)

Check your calendar, buddy. You seem to be confused.

I have the definitive answer. Spring BEGINS when the Mesquite Bushes begin to bloom. They just began this past week. Now it is safe to scalp the lawn because we won't have another freeze till next fall. Mesquites never lie.

End of Debate. Apple has three months minus one week. The Mesquites have spoken.

[DarkGashX]

I don't know if this adds anything concrete but I just attended an Apple, Adobe and others event. The guy from Apple alluded to Leopard coming out in a few weeks....

You are not the only one to have heard that, a buddy of mine who works at Apple in the States hinted of "something" Leopard related happening in 3 - 5 weeks. Only one event in that time as far as I know ;). That is a pretty big area Apple has taken for the show lol.

[Darkroom]

Might as well call it iLife 07.5 or iLife late-07 while they're at it. Its like 6 months late....or will be at least

calling it "MacLife" seems like a strong (and obvious) idea to me... removing that 90s "i" prefix would defo be a welcomed change... i'm actually surprised that they haven't dropped the "i" from "iMac" to rename it "Mac" yet, since the renamed the "iBook" to "MacBook"... "i..." is way over...

[TheSpaz]

How about these names for iLife:

iLife: Super Awesome Edition
iLife: Hey, it works now! Edition
iLife: Doesn't Suck Edition
iLife: Buy a New Mac Edition
iLife: uLife, we all scream for iLife
iLife: So you don't have to Edition
iLife: The not as bad Edition
Life: Whew, glad that's over Edition

There's tons of great names out there!

[Darkroom]

How about these names for iLife:

iLife: Super Awesome Edition
iLife: Hey, it works now! Edition
iLife: Doesn't Suck Edition
iLife: Buy a New Mac Edition
iLife: uLife, we all scream for iLife
iLife: So you don't have to Edition
iLife: The not as bad Edition
Life: Whew, glad that's over Edition

There's tons of great names out there!

definatly "iLife: uLife, we all scream for iLife"!!!! i'd buy it :D

[ddaniel]

You are not the only one to have heard that, a buddy of mine who works at Apple in the States hinted of "something" Leopard related happening in 3 - 5 weeks. Only one event in that time as far as I know ;). That is a pretty big area Apple has taken for the show lol.

Man I hope you're right. My buddy sat on my old laptop and put it out of commission. I want a new Macbook Pro ASAP. Life sucks without a computer

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

calling it "MacLife" seems like a strong (and obvious) idea to me... removing that 90s "i" prefix would defo be a welcomed change... i'm actually surprised that they haven't dropped the "i" from "iMac" to rename it "Mac" yet, since the renamed the "iBook" to "MacBook"... "i..." is way over...

Totally...except that Apple's biggest product launch in the last five years begins with an "i" and hasn't even come out yet...:rolleyes:

[JFreak]

I think iLife will become a part of Leopard itself, and stop being sold as a seperate product. Microsoft Windows Vista include many programs that rival iLife products, so Apple has to repond accordinally.

Actually, it's the other way around. Microsoft has always been accused about killing competition by bundling non-core applications to Windows. Apple has done the right thing by separating non-core lifestyle applications from the operating system. This all makes everything more transparent, and it is really Microsoft who should follow Apple's practices.

Apple sells two versions of its operating system; one server version and one client version. That's it, all you need to specify is whether you're building a server or not. It's a great thing! In comparison, the only simple thing about Microsofts products is that whatever Windows version one must choose, it will not work as expected and the customer can blame oneself for choosing the wrong version.

Then the other software – it's all about the user preference. Need iLife? Just buy it. Need iWork? Just buy it. Need FCP/Shake/Motion/Logic/Whatever? Just buy it. This is as transparent as it gets and I love it!

Apple is however bundling current iLife with all Apple computers sold, which is great too. That is exactly the same kind of marketing decision other PC hardware manufacturers do all the time; take Dell for example, there's lots of software pre-installed, not all of which are useful. This comparison makes Apple look good compared to competition, if only people wanted to base their purchase decision to feature comparison ;)

[BillyShears]

You are not the only one to have heard that, a buddy of mine who works at Apple in the States hinted of "something" Leopard related happening in 3 - 5 weeks. Only one event in that time as far as I know ;). That is a pretty big area Apple has taken for the show lol.

3-5 weeks is April 24 - June 1.

NAB is held April 16 - 19.

WWDC is held June 11 - 15.

I do not follow.

My guess is secret features are revealed at NAB. All Macs updated from NAB to WWDC, starting with Pro lines. Leopard is released at WWDC.

[Mac Heretic]

I'm with Mr Shears. Review dates are not neccessarily the same than delivery dates. Apple has slipped to this pre-marketing nowadays, unfortunately.

So, full Leopard and iLife preview in, say middle of May at the latest.
"Leopard is leaping! June 11th."
Then, beginning of June iPhone delivery.
"iPhone now shipping. Ready for the Leopard."
Then, middle of June Leopard and iLife delivery. And I hope that it would come with the updated Macs.
"We did not only leap with OS. We will leap with the Macs again! Shipping: today! With the new Photoshop this thing do not fly - it rockets!" (read: Thank you Adobe for finally updating that s****r!)

That maximizes news coverup.

With the new Mac people could see and test the new OS with a new computer in the stores. I would go for a new iMac with a large display, since that is the key product imagewise.

And before May, maximum hype about all that of course.

[Evangelion]

Actually, it's the other way around. Microsoft has always been accused about killing competition by bundling non-core applications to Windows. Apple has done the right thing by separating non-core lifestyle applications from the operating system. This all makes everything more transparent, and it is really Microsoft who should follow Apple's practices.

Well, the difference is tiny, really. Microsoft bundles software to their OS. Apple does not bundle software to their OS, they bundle it to their computers. But the end-result is 98% identical. When user buys a new computer, he gets software that is "non-core".

Apple is however bundling current iLife with all Apple computers sold, which is great too.

So is it a good thing to bundle software or not? It's bad if it's bundled with the OS, but it's good if it's bundled with the computer? What if same company provided both the OS and the computer?

That is exactly the same kind of marketing decision other PC hardware manufacturers do all the time

You are comparing apples (no pun intended) to oranges here. Dell is just an OEM, and it gets it's OS from Microsoft. Apple sells a complete package. They supply the hardware AND the OS. So it really makes no difference that do they bundle their apps with the OS or the computer, since the end-result is identical: the computer comes bundled with non-core software.

[PCMacUser]

Actually, it's the other way around. Microsoft has always been accused about killing competition by bundling non-core applications to Windows. Apple has done the right thing by separating non-core lifestyle applications from the operating system. This all makes everything more transparent, and it is really Microsoft who should follow Apple's practices.

Um, to tell you the truth, when I bought my Mac I had no indication that iLife was separate from the OS. It was preinstalled on my iBook, and also when I formatted the computer and reinstalled Tiger from the original discs, iLife was on the same discs as the OS! In terms of integration, it's about even between MS and Apple. IE on a PC integrates annoyingly too much sometimes, and likewise on my Apple, I hate having to open Safari's preferences to give Firefox 'permission' to be the default browser...

[matticus008]

So is it a good thing to bundle software or not? It's bad if it's bundled with the OS, but it's good if it's bundled with the computer? What if same company provided both the OS and the computer?
Actually, yes. If Microsoft made computers, it would be expected that they would include their own software on them. People who buy computers might not have any software, or perhaps they're adding a second computer and need all new licenses. If you're buying software, though, you've already got a computer and presumably some software, so the less bundling (software-software), the better.
So it really makes no difference that do they bundle their apps with the OS or the computer, since the end-result is identical: the computer comes bundled with non-core software.
The end result isn't identical, though. Software bundled with software together is not the same as a computer coming bundled with software.

If a computer comes bundled with software, you're being provided with everything you need to get started. If, on the other hand, you don't want a whole new computer, being able to pick and choose which software to add is a valuable option.

Getting iLife for free with a new computer isn't really problematic. Sure, some people still have their old version of iLife and maybe they'd prefer that, but since Apple price points are notoriously fixed, the computer wouldn't be any cheaper without the software. You can always sell the old version to avoid superfluous licenses.
Um, to tell you the truth, when I bought my Mac I had no indication that iLife was separate from the OS.
It's pretty clear from the description you read on Apple's site before buying, or from store displays, and even the box, as I recall. If you are in the market for OS upgrades later on, it also becomes quite clear that the upgrades are sold separately from each other.
I hate having to open Safari's preferences to give Firefox 'permission' to be the default browser...
Update Firefox--you haven't had to do that in quite a while.

[Cojack]

I'm getting my macbook on May 1st. I just think I should wait two months after the leapord is released because not only does school return but if the
leapord did have a few bugs, it would be fixed by then. ( So Much for Santa Rosa:( )

[MacVault]

[QUOTE=MacVault;3505352] Keynote looks pretty good, but there's only one other app in the suite, Pages, and it is a total, featureless, piece of junk. QUOTE]


Ok, i've heard this comment alot about iwork and here is something to consider.... How old is iwork? The reason I say this is, being a programmer myself, products rarely are completely awesome in Version 1.0. Think about it... Office is a great product suite, but it has been around for at least 10 years probably closer to 15. (maybe even longer then that) As far as I know (please polietly correct me if i'm wrong) but iwork is what? 2, 3 years old? So how can it compete?

Give iwork some time! It will get better!

If that indeed is the case, then FINE! I have no problem with that. Just don't make it a "TOP SECRET FEATURE" of Leopard then!

[Roadstar]

Vista = Windows 6.0
XP = Windows 5.0 (5.1 = SP1; 5.2 = SP2)


A bit off-topic nitpicking, but with XP you're wrong. Windows 2000 was 5.0 and XP is 5.1 regardless of service packs. For the same reason it bothers me to no end to hear Windows folks complaining "oh you need to pay for service packs with OS X" without realizing that the version number did not change any more between 2000 and XP than it did between Panther and Tiger. And both of those upgrades required you to shell in some money.

[Evangelion]

Actually, yes. If Microsoft made computers, it would be expected that they would include their own software on them.

Of course, since the computer is supposed to be usable out of the box. But the point here is that is the software bundled with the OS or bundled with the computer. It seems to me that people are making up excuses so they could condemn Microsoft (who bundles software to the OS), while praising Apple (who bundles software with the computer).

Note: I have no problems with Apple bundling software to their computers. I do have problems with Microsoft bundling software to their OS. Reason being that Microsoft is a monopoly, Apple is not. But I really see no real difference between bundling software with the computer, as opposed to bundling it with the OS, as far as end-user is concerned.

The end result isn't identical, though. Software bundled with software together is not the same as a computer coming bundled with software.

For the user, it is. There really is no difference as far as the user is concerned. Whether the software comes bundled with the OS or it comes bundled with the computer, the end result is exactly the same. He buys a new computer, and there's software that is pre-installed on it. To the user, it's 100% irrelevant that did that extra software come with the OS or with the computer.

The lack of separation is so deep, that it can actually surprise the user. Some time ago I completely erased the HD on my Mini, and used it as a Linux-server for a while. Then I re-installed OS X, and was surprised when iLife was not there. That was the only time I noticed the difference between bundling with computer and bundling with OS.

If a computer comes bundled with software, you're being provided with everything you need to get started. If, on the other hand, you don't want a whole new computer, being able to pick and choose which software to add is a valuable option.

"Whole new computer", what do you mean? Self-built computers? Since Apple only sells "whole new computers", I fail to see the relevance here.

[DarkGashX]

3-5 weeks is April 24 - June 1.

NAB is held April 16 - 19.

WWDC is held June 11 - 15.

I do not follow.

My guess is secret features are revealed at NAB. All Macs updated from NAB to WWDC, starting with Pro lines. Leopard is released at WWDC.

Keep in mind he said that a week ago. I should of said :(. Sorry.

[penguy]

Im pretty sure iPhoto 2 is free. So is iTunes. And I think iMovie 1 is free. So, you cant burn DVDs or make Webpages. So what. If you bought a Mac in the past 5 yrs, it comes with a more recent version of these softwares including iDVD I believe and upgrading to Leopard wont remove those. So, technically they are built-in. Its just an old-version.

As far as I know, only iTunes is free. The rest come with your Mac purchase...in my case, iLife '05. I purchased '06 because I believed the improvements to iPhoto were worth it.

As Apple upgrades the iLife, the component you will get for 'free' will be iTunes only...the rest will require you to buy the new iLife...

[Smileyguy]

What calendar is everyone working by? I was always taught June was in summer, not spring. :rolleyes:

[dr_lha]

What calendar is everyone working by? I was always taught June was in summer, not spring. :rolleyes:
How many ****ing times does this need to be said: In the USA the last day of Spring is June 21st. Jeez.

[Smileyguy]

Apologies, take a chill.

I think that rule actually applies to the entire Northern Hemisphere under the meteorlogical intepretation of seasons, rather than just being a US thing.

Stills seems to be stretching it a bit to me though. Nothing wrong with just saying, "It's a little late".

[Jarcrew]

Well, I'm sure Spring doesn't end June 21st in the UK, so it'll be released before then - the UK site hasn't changed.

[Butthead]

Now that the Leopard in March threads are dead, what happened to the Leopard as soon as May threads, to toggle back N forth with the June thread(s)? :eek:

[morespce54]

WOW you people amaze me. It doesn't matter what happens you just wanna bit@h about something.... I don't like the name Leopard..... I think there should be a number.... No it should be a version... This isn't news... OMG can you even hear yourselves? The more I read these forums, the more I start to hate them. I like these forums when we can share cool ideas and discuss things maturely, but most of the time it is just stupid whining and even ridiculing people. If we were all together and had a forum meeting in person would you all act like this to eachother?

Just something to think about a little :rolleyes: (no offense to the innocent).

Of course, you do realize how much you're helping here... :rolleyes: ;)

[kenaustus]

I think that iLife and iWork will be released (not included with) at the same time as Leopard simply because the apps will use Leopard features to the fullest, but still work with previous versions of OS X.

Apple will, IMHO, what to maintain the annual cash flow from new versions of both apps. Including them with Leopard would mean that they have to wait until OS X 10.6 arrives, which will probably take longer than leopard has taken to be developed.

It's really too late in the year to use the "07" version so I think we will see iLife/iWork 08. That gives Apple another 6 months of development for the next round (iLife/iWork 09) which allows for a greater enhancement of the product.

[bankshot]

ThinkSecret, believe it or not, often has reliable sources. I remeber a couple years ago they nailed a MWSF square on the head, weeks in advance.

Yeah, back then they were by far the most reliable site. If ThinkSecret said something, you could bet money on it.

But then the lawsuit came out and their sources dried up. It was even speculated that they were posting deliberate false rumors to get Apple off their backs. Even now, I'd say they're among the most unreliable rumor sites. I can't remember the last thing they got right that wasn't totally obvious to begin with. They've lost all credibility.

Give TS a chance as a rumor site.

Sorry, not anymore... :rolleyes:

[redison]

You know I think that it's taken so long, in order that Leopard will have built in support for newer hardware technologies (as some of the "top secret" features).

I predict:

1) SLI or Crossfire support for multiple GPU's ( probably first on the MacPro's, as Apples own pro Apps are increasingly dependent on the GPU for performance) as well as 8 core processing.

2) Bluray or HD DVD support; this is a no brainer.

3) Amazing integration with the iPhone; again a no brainer.

4) Much better integration with (the now dog tired) dot mac (.mac) services. Double no brainer.

5) Increased integration with Google Apps and Apples (new) hardware.

6) 1080i/p AppleTV support

Just my 2 cents,

-Robert



http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=6986&trans=off

[Spritey]

At least we now have a timeframe for the iLife and iWork suites.

Come on Apple, I'm getting tired of using TextEdit.

Same here. It's friggin' annoying, because I need to get Office as well, but I don't want to buy Office when there's a new Office version right around the corner as well. And same deal with iWork.

At least they should offer people some incentive to get the current iWork or Office package, or like half price off the new iWork if you buy the old version or something.

Driving me nuts being stuck in between!

[Shotglass]

Same here. It's friggin' annoying, because I need to get Office as well, but I don't want to buy Office when there's a new Office version right around the corner as well. And same deal with iWork.

I bought MS Office 2004 in '05. Now I just got the new NeoOffice. Until now it's pretty good, i think you should try it out.:)

[FSBW21086]

when i heard spring announcement i thought march. ugh :mad:

[Benjamindaines]

You know I think that it's taken so long, in order that Leopard will have built in support for newer hardware technologies (as some of the "top secret" features).

I predict:

1) SLI or Crossfire support for multiple GPU's ( probably first on the MacPro's, as Apples own pro Apps are increasingly dependent on the GPU for performance) as well as 8 core processing.

2) Bluray or HD DVD support; this is a no brainer.

3) Amazing integration with the iPhone; again a no brainer.

4) Much better integration with (the now dog tired) dot mac (.mac) services. Double no brainer.

5) Increased integration with Google Apps and Apples (new) hardware.

6) 1080i/p AppleTV support

Just my 2 cents,

-Robert



http://boinc.mundayweb.com/one/stats.php?userID=6986&trans=off

I thought we were waiting on Intel for SLI support. I was under the impression that the Xeon boards don't support it.

[Cult Follower]

I Think may would be a good time.:)

[Phil A.]

Well, I'm sure Spring doesn't end June 21st in the UK, so it'll be released before then - the UK site hasn't changed.

Yes it does - the summer solstice (around June 21st) is the first day of Summer.
If you want to see a non-seasonal description of when Leopard's coming, head over the Australian (http://www.apple.com/au/macosx/leopard/index.html) Apple site where they say it's coming "Mid 2007" (guess what - that's June too ;))

[matticus008]

It seems to me that people are making up excuses so they could condemn Microsoft (who bundles software to the OS), while praising Apple (who bundles software with the computer).
It's not an excuse. It's a material difference, which you yourself point out in the very next paragraph.
Note: I have no problems with Apple bundling software to their computers. I do have problems with Microsoft bundling software to their OS. Reason being that Microsoft is a monopoly, Apple is not. But I really see no real difference between bundling software with the computer, as opposed to bundling it with the OS, as far as end-user is concerned.
You just don't get it, do you? You can buy software off the shelf. If you're not buying a computer, then software-software bundling is a problem.

Bundling software with hardware doesn't pose a problem regardless of where the link lies. Bundling software with the OS DOES, because people buy the OS without buying new computers. If software is bundled to the OS, users are forced to buy iLife+OS X when all they want is OS X.

You're limiting yourself to people who are buying computers--that's only half of the story.
"Whole new computer", what do you mean? Self-built computers? Since Apple only sells "whole new computers", I fail to see the relevance here.
How much more simple can it get? If you're not buying a computer AT ALL and are buying software retail (you know, those boxes that line the walls of Apple stores?), there's a complete difference. Software bundled with the computers doesn't affect software customers. Software bundled with other software does.

[zblaxberg]

I don't know if this adds anything concrete but I just attended an Apple, Adobe and others event. The guy from Apple alluded to Leopard coming out in a few weeks. He didn't actually say it but 1) he said that Apple tends to underpromise and overdeliver on timelines and 2) he made a slip (intentionally?) when he said "when Leopard comes out in a few weeks, um, I mean, a few months" with a big grin. So, I still have hope for a release earlier than June. The money is burning a hole in my pocket for a new MacPro, MacBook Pro and CS3! Broke city here I come...

P.S. At this event, I also got a free copy of a piece of software called Crossover from a company called CodeWeavers. It allows an Intel mac user to use a large variety of Windows-based apps, including Office, Outlook and some games, without having Windows installed whatsoever. The company is a major member of an open source project called Wine that has been making pc programs available to Linux machines and now that Macs are Intel-based they have brought this capability to the mac. Doesn't work for every single Windows app yet but an impressive number of major ones and it isn't emulation, you use the mac finder as usual, no switching back and forth, etc. Can't wait to get an Intel mac and try it out!


im hoping that grin meant something...

[FF_productions]

Wow, Apple don't do this to me. I don't want to wait until June for Leopard..

[Howmanoid]

Anyone heard any scoop of FrontRow features in Leopard? I'm really hoping for some kind of DVR capabilities so I can ditch my Windows MCE box!! :o

[twoodcc]

Wow, Apple don't do this to me. I don't want to wait until June for Leopard..


yeah i know, me too!

[Thertel88]

I was thinking of buying a new macbook...Should I wait till june for apple to release the macbooks with the new leopard and ilife suites or just buy them seperate? And my playstation 3 broke and I have all of these blu ray dvds...am I gonna be able to play them when leopard comes out?

[peharri]

I was thinking of buying a new macbook...Should I wait till june for apple to release the macbooks with the new leopard and ilife suites or just buy them seperate? And my playstation 3 broke and I have all of these blu ray dvds...am I gonna be able to play them when leopard comes out?

Only if the Macbook you buy comes with a Blu-ray drive. My guess would be probably not.

I would just buy another PS3, look around and you can probably get one for $50 or so.*




* Hey, I can bash Sony if I want, it's my own comment, I wrote it.

[jbh001]

You know I think that it's taken so long, in order that Leopard will have built in support for newer hardware technologies (as some of the "top secret" features).

I predict:

1) SLI or Crossfire support for multiple GPU's ( probably first on the MacPro's, as Apples own pro Apps are increasingly dependent on the GPU for performance) as well as 8 core processing.

2) Bluray or HD DVD support; this is a no brainer.

3) Amazing integration with the iPhone; again a no brainer.

4) Much better integration with (the now dog tired) dot mac (.mac) services. Double no brainer.

5) Increased integration with Google Apps and Apples (new) hardware.

6) 1080i/p AppleTV support

Just my 2 cents,

-Robert

7) ZFS Root

[Thertel88]

does anybody know if leopard will be bundled with the macbooks?

[peharri]

does anybody know if leopard will be bundled with the macbooks?

No. In fact, after Leopard is released, MacBooks will actually be bundled with a special Intel version of Jaguar (Mac OS X 10.2) instead of Tiger (10.4) as they are at present.

It's going to be even worse for Mac mini buyers, they'll be getting Mac OS 6. No decision has been made yet as to whether it'll come with the Multifinder.

[shikimo]

does anybody know if leopard will be bundled with the macbooks?

Please ignore the last response, and welcome to the forums. :)

After Leopard is released all new Macs will come loaded with it, or at the very least with a certificate for a free upgrade (this usually happens with computers ordered during the gap between the official release date and the shipping date).

This is standard operating procedure for all new OS versions.

In retrospect, this was perhaps not the ideal place to post your question: a thread in the "Mac basics and Help" forum would have been a better choice...but no big deal.

[Senator]

Please ignore the last response, and welcome to the forums. :)

After Leopard is released all new Macs will come loaded with it, or at the very least with a certificate for a free upgrade (this usually happens with computers ordered during the gap between the official release date and the shipping date).



Firstly, Hi all, my first post here. I have just become a switcher and have a MBP 17".....love it. As far the OS is concerned I feel that Vista is probably no better than the current Tiger. I was trying to wait for Leopard but as you can see, I could not.
When Leaopard comes out what is the thought on upgrade price etc. I will want to upgrade straight away as I am an early adopter type.

[Nitromaster]

Firstly, Hi all, my first post here. I have just become a switcher and have a MBP 17".....love it. As far the OS is concerned I feel that Vista is probably no better than the current Tiger. I was trying to wait for Leopard but as you can see, I could not.
When Leaopard comes out what is the thought on upgrade price etc. I will want to upgrade straight away as I am an early adopter type.

Leopard will probaly cost 129€/us$ for a single licence or 199€/us$ for the family pack.
Should cost the same as tiger,whatever it costs in australia.

[Gallick]

I work at a Staples here in Calgary, Canada in the computer department and had an interesting observation regarding Apple products a few days ago. Take from it what you will, but every week we get a list of products to send back to the manufacturers (recalls, defective product, stuff they are replacing with new products, etc), and the list this week included iLife '06 and iWork '06. We had two copies of each, and we were instructed to send back one of each.

Don't know if that means anything, but you'd think that if they were getting stores to send back stock of those products, they'd be replacing it fairly soon. Who knows.

[elppa]

Firstly, Hi all, my first post here. I have just become a switcher and have a MBP 17".....love it. As far the OS is concerned I feel that Vista is probably no better than the current Tiger. I was trying to wait for Leopard but as you can see, I could not.
When Leaopard comes out what is the thought on upgrade price etc. I will want to upgrade straight away as I am an early adopter type.

If you think about it, all copies of the Mac OS are effectively "upgrades" because in order to install it (legally) you need a Mac, which already comes with a copy of the OS.

Upgrade price is usually €/$129.00 or £99.99.

If it includes iWork and/or iLife (there is some speculation this may be the case) then I think you can expect to pay a little more.

I have a feeling Apple may raise the price for this one regardless as it is the most significant upgrade in a while and they haven't put the price up for the best part of 6 years.

(I paid £99 for 10.0 in March 2001)

[iHallex]

it's said the leopard released date is May 28th, two weeks before WWDC 2007~~~just wait pls.:D

[imageforce]

i don`t care how long it will take, as long as there are new rumors every time i visit this site! (wich is like every day :)

i am kind of the computer-nerd-tech-guy for my friends and family and everyone who wanted to buy a new pc with vista is now going to buy a mac with leopard. i told them it`ll be easier, plain better and they`ll be cooler :)

i can`t remember apple disappointed their "community" OS-wise anyhow. so leopard is going to be great and will be the best OS and worth the laughable 99$ upgrade.

as one of my predecessors wrote: "it will make for a happy summer!"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

one thing i hope for though, is better graphic cards to choose from!
why can`t there be 8800 gtx in iMacs? i hope someday the iMacs are more upgradable...

[zub3qin]

I have been lurking for a few months- and I am ready to make to make the switch from PC to Mac (I was orig an Apple //c user, then had a mac, but have been a PC user for the past 7 years)

I am checking daily for ANY news on Leopard's release, since that is when I plan on biting the bullet. My educated guess is that Leopard will make use of Multitouch, as the iPhone does.

My question is this-
1) if I get sick of waiting, and get a Macbook or Macbook pro, what do you think the limitation is going to be once Leopard comes out. If Multitouch is indeed a feature, will the touchpads on a Macbook support it? My guess is yes, since you can do the two finger scroll thing.

2) It seems that the response on the Macs I have played with in the apple store is far better with a real mouse, than the touchpad. Mostly because of the squeeze functions, and the roll ball and right clicking. How easy is it to do all of these features with a trackpad? Is it a combination of a keyboard button press and a mouse click? Is it possible to di it one handed?

3) What is the educated guess on a hardware release simultaneously wth Leopard? Does Apple typically do a hardware release at the same time as an OS update? Why get Leopard and a Macbook if an improved Macbook is coming out only a month later?

Thanks!!!!

[matticus008]

If Multitouch is indeed a feature, will the touchpads on a Macbook support it? My guess is yes, since you can do the two finger scroll thing.
No. Multitouch is for displays, not for touchpads. Touchpads don't have a 1:1 relationship with the screen, so it would be impossible to use such a feature to manipulate objects.

How easy is it to do all of these features with a trackpad? Is it a combination of a keyboard button press and a mouse click? Is it possible to di it one handed?
There is no squeeze on a touchpad (or most mice, for that matter). Right clicking is simple (and can be done with one hand [ctrl-click, use your thumb for the touchpad]), and two-finger scrolling is about as easy as it gets.
3) What is the educated guess on a hardware release simultaneously wth Leopard? Does Apple typically do a hardware release at the same time as an OS update?
No one really knows. There's not enough in the way of consistency with the past to make a guess that's more likely than any other. Anyone who claims otherwise is misleading you. Signs point to a near end-to-end product line refresh at some point. Whether it will happen all at once, or in sequential releases, no one outside Apple knows. Whether it happens before, with, or after Leopard is also unknown.

There will definitely be new Macs this year, and there will definitely be Leopard this year. If you can wait for the holidays, you'd wind up with Leopard and a superior new Mac, perhaps with new features, and maybe just better specs. If you can't wait, Leopard will work fine on any current Mac.

[zub3qin]

No. Multitouch is for displays, not for touchpads. Touchpads don't have a 1:1 relationship with the screen, so it would be impossible to use such a feature to manipulate objects.


There is no squeeze on a touchpad (or most mice, for that matter). Right clicking is simple (and can be done with one hand [ctrl-click, use your thumb for the touchpad]), and two-finger scrolling is about as easy as it gets.

No one really knows. There's not enough in the way of consistency with the past to make a guess that's more likely than any other. Anyone who claims otherwise is misleading you. Signs point to a near end-to-end product line refresh at some point. Whether it will happen all at once, or in sequential releases, no one outside Apple knows. Whether it happens before, with, or after Leopard is also unknown.

There will definitely be new Macs this year, and there will definitely be Leopard this year. If you can wait for the holidays, you'd wind up with Leopard and a superior new Mac, perhaps with new features, and maybe just better specs. If you can't wait, Leopard will work fine on any current Mac.



Hey- Thanks for a very well formulated response! But I have one question- it seems that you should be able to do a pinch maneuver with a touchpad if it supports multiple touch locations to input. In other words, you move your arrow to the picture with a onefinger maneuver (like normal), but then you pinch or grow the image. I think if this is the case, the current touchpad may be ok. (then again, i wonder if this is really that big of a feature to want)

[matticus008]

Hey- Thanks for a very well formulated response! But I have one question- it seems that you should be able to do a pinch maneuver with a touchpad if it supports multiple touch locations to input.
No problem!

The "squeeze" motion on the Mighty Mouse just acts as an additional button, something other mice have had in abundance for years. If you want the effect of multiple buttons on your touchpad, there are third-party utilities that allow you to use the corners to perform dedicated actions without having to make a complicated and unintuitive gesture (many users on MR have experience with this). "Squeeze" works well because you're actually holding an object in your hand. Trying to reproduce that on a flat surface seems counterproductive to me.

[pengu]

as one of my predecessors wrote: "it will make for a happy summer!"



Jagshemash, it help us make the Sexy Times!

[Gallick]

I work at a Staples here in Calgary, Canada in the computer department and had an interesting observation regarding Apple products a few days ago. Take from it what you will, but every week we get a list of products to send back to the manufacturers (recalls, defective product, stuff they are replacing with new products, etc), and the list this week included iLife '06 and iWork '06. We had two copies of each, and we were instructed to send back one of each.

Don't know if that means anything, but you'd think that if they were getting stores to send back stock of those products, they'd be replacing it fairly soon. Who knows.

Adding to this--and something I found even more fascinating: I had a gentleman on the phone today who was looking for a black Macbook. I knew we were sold out, so I checked our computer to see if we had any on order and noticed two things:
1) We didn't have any on order.
2) There was an "xxx" in the item title line, which means the item has been discontinued, or in the case of computers, printers and the like, the model is being replaced or we are not carrying it anymore.

I know for a fact we are continuing to carry the Macbooks, we spoke with the Apple rep the other day about carrying the Macbook Pro. I then checked our other Macbook models (not the Pro, I will do this tommorow) and they were all marked with the "xxx" label.

What this tells me is that Apple will likely be replacing the Macbooks very soon. Of course, there have been steady rumors of a refresh to the Macbook/Pro line in the way of Santa Rosa chipsets, among other things. What that spells out for Leopard, it seems un-Apple-like that they would release the new Macbooks and Leopard within a fairly short time frame of each other.

I'm inclined to believe that Leopard will be released sooner rather than later (late April to mid-May?) because of this.

Wondering if anyone else works at a computer store has noticed this?

[zub3qin]

Adding to this--and something I found even more fascinating: I had a gentleman on the phone today who was looking for a black Macbook. I knew we were sold out, so I checked our computer to see if we had any on order and noticed two things:
1) We didn't have any on order.
2) There was an "xxx" in the item title line, which means the item has been discontinued, or in the case of computers, printers and the like, the model is being replaced or we are not carrying it anymore.

I know for a fact we are continuing to carry the Macbooks, we spoke with the Apple rep the other day about carrying the Macbook Pro. I then checked our other Macbook models (not the Pro, I will do this tommorow) and they were all marked with the "xxx" label.

What this tells me is that Apple will likely be replacing the Macbooks very soon. Of course, there have been steady rumors of a refresh to the Macbook/Pro line in the way of Santa Rosa chipsets, among other things. What that spells out for Leopard, it seems un-Apple-like that they would release the new Macbooks and Leopard within a fairly short time frame of each other.

I'm inclined to believe that Leopard will be released sooner rather than later (late April to mid-May?) because of this.

Wondering if anyone else works at a computer store has noticed this?

Can any other Apple store people confirm this report? This may be big news if true.

[bobsayshello]

Can any other Apple store people confirm this report? This may be big news if true.

Please xoxoxox I need more info!!!!!

im begging!!!

is this the start of the end or end of the start??

I want to get a new macbook pro with leopard :D

[twoodcc]

Please xoxoxox I need more info!!!!!

im begging!!!

is this the start of the end or end of the start??

I want to get a new macbook pro with leopard :D

i would like to know as well

[Diatribe]

Well I guess they could always announce them ast NAB with shipping dates for May or something but they'd have to update Tiger to make use of the NAND flash so I wouldn't hold my breath.

[bobsayshello]

Well I guess they could always announce them ast NAB with shipping dates for May or something but they'd have to update Tiger to make use of the NAND flash so I wouldn't hold my breath.

i would smile at that :)

[Peace]

I think we're going to find that some new hardware will require Leopard in this year.

[bobsayshello]

i would smile at that :)

what i meant to say, is that I would smile at ANY announcement :eek:

[peharri]

What that spells out for Leopard, it seems un-Apple-like that they would release the new Macbooks and Leopard within a fairly short time frame of each other.

I'm inclined to believe that Leopard will be released sooner rather than later (late April to mid-May?) because of this.

Wondering if anyone else works at a computer store has noticed this?

Interesting stuff, though I'm disinclined to believe the Leopard speculation. Apple doesn't ever seen to combine their major Mac OS X and hardware releases, they usually seem to be entirely separate. I think there are several good reasons, from Apple's point of view, for this, from the avoidance of confusion about where particular problems may lay, through the need to ensure there's an established tested body of software for new computer models, to simply the extra revenue it results in from early adopters.

That and, again, there's no event scheduled where Teh Steve can show off the new features of Leopard to a *suitable* audience before WWDC.

[docorlando]

Macworld is reporting that Leopard won't be released until October (http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/12/leoparddelay/index.php), due to iPhone delays.

Apple on Thursday released a statement noting that Mac OS X v10.5 “Leopard” won’t be released until October. The cause of the delay? The iPhone.

“iPhone has already passed several of its required certification tests and is on schedule to ship in late June as planned. We can’t wait until customers get their hands (and fingers) on it and experience what a revolutionary and magical product it is,” reads a statement published by the company.

Getting the iPhone ready for its June launch has had an unintended consequence, however: QA and “some key software engineering” resources allocated to Mac OS X needed to be diverted from their work to finish the iPhone. As a result, Apple won’t release Leopard at its Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) in June, as it had first planned.

“While Leopard’s features will be complete by then, we cannot deliver the quality release that we and our customers expect from us. We now plan to show our developers a near final version of Leopard at the conference, give them a beta copy to take home so they can do their final testing, and ship Leopard in October. We think it will be well worth the wait. Life often presents tradeoffs, and in this case we’re sure we’ve made the right ones,” reads the statement.

*sigh* I can't wait that long for a hardware upgrade. I really wanted a Mini with Leopard already on it. Dang.

[elppa]

What a shame.

That's an awful long wait.

Still no excuse now for it not being a really top notch release.

I bet some people on here will be devastated at this news, and we'll probably see some dummy spits of the first order.

Still, life goes on.