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engelb15
Jun 12, 2003, 01:33 PM
http://www.petitiononline.com/ipoduser/petition.html

If you don't agree with me, fine thats you opinion and I respect it.

Also, what really sucks is that I simply mentioned this in an apple discussion thread and I was kicked for TOS violation!

yzedf
Jun 12, 2003, 01:48 PM
Apple is not a company really known for worrying about what its users think. This has been the case more and more for the last 2 years. Customer service levels have taken a dive, right with hardware reliability.

OTOH, an attacking tone such as that petition is NOT the way to gain respect, or a change on Apple's part.

Just because there is new software for new hardware does not imply that the new software is also for the old hardware. Apple is not the only company to follow this philosophy...

Sun Baked
Jun 12, 2003, 01:56 PM
Sorry, I already voiced my opinion in the Petition Against Pointless Petitions (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18828)

engelb15
Jun 12, 2003, 01:57 PM
Just to clarify, I did not write this petition, I do support it.

I would say that the only thing I disagree with in the petition is calling the old iPod obsolete. But the only reason the old iPods got the latest firmware release it to gain more potential iTunes Store customers.

I just feel like apple is saying "you dont tell us what features you want, we do! Now go away little man"

yzedf
Jun 12, 2003, 02:23 PM
I just feel like apple is saying "you dont tell us what features you want, we do! Now go away little man" = FORCED UPGRADE PATH

As I said before... not unusual.

strider42
Jun 12, 2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by engelb15
http://www.petitiononline.com/ipoduser/petition.html

If you don't agree with me, fine thats you opinion and I respect it.

Also, what really sucks is that I simply mentioned this in an apple discussion thread and I was kicked for TOS violation!

Apple will not kick you off of their discussion forums for a single violation. If they deleted the psot, then its the right thing. it was after all a violation of the TOS there (and it can get pretty miserable there when the TOS is not enforced). if they suspended your user name there, you must have done a lot to piss them off. I'm a helper there and kind of see what goes on with deleted threads a lot of the time, as well as the rare instances where someone is actually banned.

As for the petition, I think its pretty silly. Maybe some of the features they want just can't be put in the old iPods easily for some reason. Maybe the architecture is different enough between the new and the old that they couldn't just release the firmware update for it, they'd have to write it all again from scratch. I don't know if its true or not, but its always possible, and why should an old version fo a product be upgraded to everything the newest version can do. I mean, apple does run a business. thats not bad customer service, thats the reality of being a consumer. If people don't like the features of the iPod, then buy a competitor product that offers what you want. Apple will respond to lost sales, not silly petitions.

davy the bunny
Jun 12, 2003, 02:41 PM
yzedf's av/icon just made me think. . .

I sure wish sony would upgrade the firmware on the obsolete Playstation so that I could play Final Fantasy X on it. I think I'm gonna start a petition. . .

I'm not trying to be rude but I think both sound equally ridiculous.

StarmanDeluxe
Jun 12, 2003, 03:01 PM
Starmen.net sent a peitition that garnered over THRITY THOUSAND signatures to Nintendo to get them to release Mother 3 (sequel to the SNES game EarthBound) in the United States. They didn't listen. Apple won't listen to anything with just a tenth of that.

aethier
Jun 12, 2003, 05:02 PM
Stupid petitions, dont even waste your time, nobody cares, as mentioned above they cant keep it with the latest and greatest forever. its the same as if i were to start b***ing that my mac plus wont run osx.

you see, hardware gets out of date. its not the end of the worrld if you miss out on two games, and some other little things.

aethier

solvs
Jun 12, 2003, 05:22 PM
One thing you have to understand is that Apple is a company like any other, trying to make money. When non-education customers wanted to buy eMacs, Apple listened. They stood to make money, so it would have been stupid not to. When people wanted free or cheap e-mail addresses instead of having to pay $100 for .Mac, Apple didn't listen. Even though they stood to possibly make a little money, but lose more, they weighed the good and bad and decided on an all or nothing approach.

So basically, they're gonna do what they're gonna do.

Couldn't hurt to try though.

technocoy
Jun 12, 2003, 05:42 PM
just my opinion, but...

i would hardly call the first generations "obsolete" they still serve their pupose fine, and some people prefer the older iPods anyway. sony sells two versions of a stereo. one has 5.1surround and the other has 6.1surround and streaming media support, does that mean that the old one is obsolete? no, it means that one has more (in addition to) features... quit whining and buy a rio or something if it's that bad for you, and call their customer support and see how you like that. (and yes i realize that sony sells more than two stereos, i am just trying to make my point) I can't believe the whining.

tech

sorry, had to vent

seamuskrat
Jun 12, 2003, 05:47 PM
Petitions in general are worthless. There is limited accountability. Even in a 'real' petition, a certain margin of error is expected. No one has the time to verify that each signature is a valid registered votor in the state of blah blah. But they do run spot cheks, and make the 'required' counts high to get a feel.
So, if for example, you needed 50,000 signatures to get a ballot initiative, they would figure 30,000 are legit. What they really want, is a large percentage of the population atlarge to show interest. In many cases its at least 35% and up to 60%.
Online petitions are even weaker. Worse yet, I am not sure of ANY online petition that can prove its been succesful at much more than some publicity.
To the specific issue at hand.
You buy technology for what it does the day you buy it. If it worked when yo bought it, then you are happy. Time passes. If suddenly your product has been repalced and updated and does not take advantage of new features then that is progress. As long as it still has the same functionality it had when you purchased it, you are all set.
I have a 1999 car. The 2003 is MUCH nicer and better. Do I have a legitimate gripe? Nope. I also bought an SE when they came out. When the SE/30 was released, I would have killed to get one, but that is progress. No one petitioned Apple to upgrade all the SE's to SE/30 status.
The original iPods are excellent. They NEW ones are also excellent. The have a different firmware, and that is the way it is. Due to technical reasons, sales reasons or just stubborness does snot matter. Your old iPod works with AAC and iTMS jsut fine.
Progress is not stopped and 2 years from now your current iPod will be obsolete and not upgradable.

vanillamike
Jun 12, 2003, 06:14 PM
"If Apple continues to treat customers so poorly, I have no intention of ever purchasing another Apple product again."

I could see how this line could get you banned, bashing customer service and proclaiming a boycott is a little much in my opinion. I think this pitition is jumping the gun and making assumptions.

Give Apple a little time, to me it looks like they are trying to give their new iPod owners an advantage temporarily so they can sell more. I mean if the old 20 GB dropped to $269 (reported by ipodlounge) (http://www.ipodlounge.com/ipodnews_comments.php?id=678_0_7_0_C) from $499 and had all the same functions as a new iPod which one would you buy if you had the choice?

Mike

solvs
Jun 12, 2003, 06:26 PM
Things aren't exactly a whole lot better in the PC world. Asus has an nVidia2 motherboard that was just updated. Rev. 1 mobos can't be upgraded to the new Rev. 2 firmware. Just the way it is sometimes.

That's progress for ya'.

Darn companies always making things better and faster and cheaper (sometimes).

mkaake
Jun 12, 2003, 06:40 PM
*sniff*

i can't run final cut pro 4 on my beige g3?? what's up with that??

*cough*

matt

mkaake
Jun 12, 2003, 06:50 PM
oh, and to answer your question,

no.


(with over 3400 signatures, will apple listen??)

matt

bertagert
Jun 12, 2003, 06:57 PM
engelb15,

You and the other 3400 + people need to get a grip. For Apple to not upgrade your old ipod to the features of the new ones is alright. You bought your ipod with the features it has. I'm pretty sure you were happy with it too. So basically, you can't do a few things we owners of the new ipod can. Add on songs on the go, adjustable menu and a few games.

You can still put music on your ipod can't you? You can still listen to those songs can't you? Can't you do all the things you've always been able to? While the new features are nice, they're not a make or break thing either. Obviously there not that big of deal or you'd sell your current ipod and go get one of the new ones.

Relax, things will be alright. Just keep playing your ipod like you always have. You were happy then, be happy now.

One more thing: Be thankful you don't have clicks in between tracks like new owners do.

mislabeledstar
Jun 12, 2003, 07:50 PM
hmmmm, the technology dilema. everytime i want to buy something i think to myself "hmmmm, if i wait a lil longer i could get something a bit more hooked up"

right now i'm contemplating getting a 30 gb ipod, but i keep thinking to myself "if i wait 6 more months they'll probably be super hooked-up"

i think i'm settling and buying now, which means when they next gen ipods come out, i won't have all the features of them...... well, thats life

bennetsaysargh
Jun 12, 2003, 08:35 PM
the new iPod features will not be put into the old ones for 2 reasons.
1)the hardware might not be able to take it
2)it is just another selling pint for the new ones.

also, regarding the actual online petition, i don't take those seriously. all of those online signatures mean nothing. ermailin them will do nothing. if you want it, call up steve jobs, and demand that he put those fetaures in the new one.

that's the nly way to get those fetaurs n the old ones.

rainman::|:|
Jun 12, 2003, 08:45 PM
blah, blah blah. Try this on for size. Lexus one year has a car on sale, very very nice model, costs a good deal of money, very luxurious and high-tech. So Joe Blow goes and buys one, and it does everything it was sold to do. But then, not six months but 1 month later, Lexus releases a newer car, and it's redesigned, it even has an LCD panel integrated. So Joe goes around, annoying people with his petition that Lexus send him an LCD, so his car isn't 'obsolete' (it still functions perfectly, btw). Nevermind the fact that it was never sold to include one... It just should.

:rolleyes:

i think joe is just a little jealous...

pnw

dubweiser
Jun 12, 2003, 08:48 PM
#1. This is called progression of technology. You people sound so whiney. Your iPod does what it was advertised to do.

1 year ago someone bought an 800mhz iMac, should they write a petition for apple to upgrade it to 1ghz for them? No.

Should I petition Pioneer to make my VCR play dvds? No.

#2. How do you know what apple is doing. Why are you wasting your time with this when you dont know what theyre doing. how do you know that they arent working on some sort of upgrade for the older ones? YOU DONT.

You people b itch and moan because apple hasnt released an update for the ipod, then they do and now you b itch because they wont update the old one?

Get a grip.

MorganX
Jun 12, 2003, 10:00 PM
this has been apple's business model for years. They rely on mac faithful to buy new machines at high margins. That includes the iPod.

right now it's take it or leave it. Umm, that's what the whole clone market thing was about. if you can go out and buy a clone, or a motherboard, you won't buy a new machine.

There's nothing you can do except hope Apple changes it's business model.

You're right, it sucks. It's not customer friendly, it's shareholder friendly. But it's always been that way.

that's why I'm not upgrading my ipod. cost too much, for minimal upgrade. I'll wait for more bang for the buck, or till there's a competitor that gives me more bang for the buck. Lucky for Apple iTunes only works with iPod, but that may change when iTunes for windows is released.

Abstract
Jun 12, 2003, 11:03 PM
Its not your points that I'm disagreeing with. But the fact is that nobody reads the name on petitions, and nobody cares for petitions. Has anybody ever changed their mind after a petition? Its like the protests at my school about the war on Iraq. Is anybody going to stop the war because you choose to sleep in the student centre each night instead of your own beds? Haha, WOW!!........you "got" them. You got them gooooood. :p

davy the bunny
Jun 13, 2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Abstract
Its not your points that I'm disagreeing with. But the fact is that nobody reads the name on petitions, and nobody cares for petitions. Has anybody ever changed their mind after a petition? Its like the protests at my school about the war on Iraq. Is anybody going to stop the war because you choose to sleep in the student centre each night instead of your own beds? Haha, WOW!!........you "got" them. You got them gooooood. :p

okay you went too far, petitions and protests are not the same. One is passive one is active.

Wardofsky
Jun 13, 2003, 01:15 AM
The only petition I would sign is the Audio upgrade.

herr_neumann
Jun 13, 2003, 01:44 AM
yeah, you want them to listen, you are gonna have to do something drastic, like..... take over an apple store. Have like 300 people come in and have a sit in.... do it at the palo alto one so you know they here about it. Refuse to leave until steve comes down and listens to the demands....

just an idea....;)

Abstract
Jun 13, 2003, 02:11 AM
Yeah, you need news crews. Nobody is going to pay attention to a petition. You need to make Apple look bad. Many companies are purely image based, so anything that can hurt the image that they have spent millions of dollars grooming will be avoided at all costs. Make them look bad, and they'll do something about it.

On the other hand, you'll need to make Apple look bad. :o

Wardofsky
Jun 13, 2003, 02:33 AM
If Apple "gives in" it would not make them look strong.
Computer companies sell on the basis that they know what is good for you, you can request something but if Apple says "Okay, every one wants one, we'll give it to them" means that they need the public to tell them what to do.

Wardofsky
Jun 13, 2003, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by Abstract
On the other hand, you'll need to make Apple look bad. :o

I was about to say, do you really want Apple to look bad.

gopher
Jun 13, 2003, 08:35 AM
I for one do not want the 2.0 software on my 20 GB iPod. The 2.0 software has been nothing but trouble for the new iPods in that nearly everyone has had a clicking problem with them. Apple support has its hands full, and I hope they come out with a 2.0.1 version sooner than later.

Schiffi
Jun 13, 2003, 02:06 PM
Then again I have been noticing pauses with AAC tracks on my "old" iPod.

pyrotoaster
Jun 13, 2003, 03:53 PM
Ah... Apple does spoil us.

Personally, I'd like it if Apple made at least some of the new iPod's features available to owners of older iPods. That'd be nice. I'm not really pissed that they haven't, but I'd like it if they did.

Sure, I'd like to play Solitaire and make on the go playlists, but I'm still happy with my 5 GB iPod, so why should I bother upgrading?

I mean do we really need "Parachute" that badly?

Seriously though, one thing I will complain about is how Apple moved the "Backlight" selection to the main menu and won't let us get rid of it. That's just mean. ;)

MacAficionado
Jun 13, 2003, 04:10 PM
I wonder if PC people ever make a petition to Microsoft to make Windows OS better?

jelloshotsrule
Jun 13, 2003, 04:54 PM
i'd like to see the menu customization feature more than anything.... though i can live without it

i signed the petition (mainly because i figure it can't hurt)... but seeing what some of those people wrote... threatening apple and stuff.. what a joke. those people are freaks.

i don't see a reason apple couldn't still offer the feature in a future upgrade for old pods, while not saying "hey, we give in"... not sure if it's a hardware thing that keeps it from being possible or what...

mkubal
Jun 13, 2003, 05:00 PM
I have no clue why everyone seems so pissed about the fact that someone wants the newer software for their iPod. I don't see why this is such an unbelievable request. As long as the hardware is capable of supporting the software I think they should eventually release the new version for the older iPods.

You all have come up with some fairly ridiculous attempts at trying to equate this to buying an older car or having an outdated piece of hardware that eventually becomes obsolete. But think of this: If at WWDC Apple introduces 10.3 and decided to only realease it for the the new machines, but at the same time they released 10.2.7 and said that that would be the final release for any machines that had been purchase previous to that day and you would never see the new features of 10.3 I bet alot of you people would be less than happy about the decision.

I agree with the petition in general, but I won't sign it because it won't help anything. I can understand if Apple is using 2.0 as a selling point, but at some point I would like to have the new software. I don't need it right away, but I would like to have the option of using it sometime within the year.

I would hate to believe that Apple would no longer update the software for an iPod I got 6 months ago. That is unless the problems lies in the hardware. Then I would understand.

Anyway, I think it will come eventually, just wait for it.

Matt

jelloshotsrule
Jun 13, 2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by mkubal
I would hate to believe that Apple would no longer update the software for an iPod I got 6 months ago. That is unless the problems lies in the hardware. Then I would understand.


i agree with basically all you said.

as for the part i quoted, i also agree, and would basically just think that if it is in fact hardware, we might get a confirmation of that sometime. word

QCassidy352
Jun 13, 2003, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by mkubal
I have no clue why everyone seems so pissed about the fact that someone wants the newer software for their iPod. I don't see why this is such an unbelievable request. As long as the hardware is capable of supporting the software I think they should eventually release the new version for the older iPods.

You all have come up with some fairly ridiculous attempts at trying to equate this to buying an older car or having an outdated piece of hardware that eventually becomes obsolete. But think of this: If at WWDC Apple introduces 10.3 and decided to only realease it for the the new machines, but at the same time they released 10.2.7 and said that that would be the final release for any machines that had been purchase previous to that day and you would never see the new features of 10.3 I bet alot of you people would be less than happy about the decision.

I agree with the petition in general, but I won't sign it because it won't help anything. I can understand if Apple is using 2.0 as a selling point, but at some point I would like to have the new software. I don't need it right away, but I would like to have the option of using it sometime within the year.

I would hate to believe that Apple would no longer update the software for an iPod I got 6 months ago. That is unless the problems lies in the hardware. Then I would understand.

Anyway, I think it will come eventually, just wait for it.

Matt

I agree! Good lord are you people hostile! This is not comparable to making an 800 mhz imac 1 Ghz, or adding an LCD to a Lexus, so please stop making irrelevant comparisions. I don't understand why you think it's so wrong for people who spent $400 on "old" ipods less than a year ago to think that they shouldn't be kicked to the curb just because they don't have another $400 to spend. If you want customers to come back, make them believe that you will work with them even after the initial sale. Then you get happy customers, and more sales follow.

Unless there is some fundemental incompatibility between the gen 1 ipods and 2.0, then this is the same thing as not releasing OS 10.2.6 to people who bought computers that came with 10.2.4.
If the new ipods are so much better (IMO they are actually worse) then it should be no threat to sales to release 2.0 for old ipods. The real reason not to do it, as far as I can see, is because the new product is no better than the old so the software has to be used as an incentive to compensate for the hardware not really being very improved.

janey
Jun 13, 2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
I agree! Good lord are you people hostile! This is not comparable to making an 800 mhz imac 1 Ghz, or adding an LCD to a Lexus, so please stop making irrelevant comparisions. I don't understand why you think it's so wrong for people who spent $400 on "old" ipods less than a year ago to think that they shouldn't be kicked to the curb just because they don't have another $400 to spend....(snip)
oh puhleeze. whining at apple to let you install the 2.0 firmware on the first/second generation iPods is like asking apple to make a copy of Shake that will work on a Pismo with only 128mb RAM. Or maybe it's like asking Apple to make Panther or even Jaguar work on a Mac Classic. The comparisons made by people in this thread are not irrelevant. it basically explains the same thing Apple's doing with the iPods and the reason why they're not giving the old iPod users the new firmware.
I for one did spend $350 on a new iPod last November and I'm very happy with it. I'm even happier that Apple came out with a newer iPod! There's no real technological difference between the iPods except for the battery, hard drive and buttons, and Apple in a way should let old iPod users have access to iPod firmware 2.0 but that doesn't mean that i should bitch about apple being selfish! it's the price you pay for technology that constantly changes. live with it.

tazo
Jun 13, 2003, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by engelb15
http://www.petitiononline.com/ipoduser/petition.html

If you don't agree with me, fine thats you opinion and I respect it.

Also, what really sucks is that I simply mentioned this in an apple discussion thread and I was kicked for TOS violation!

Petitions online are like IQ tests on the internet, not worth the paper their printed on.

bertagert
Jun 13, 2003, 10:11 PM
Ok, lets break this down for what it is.

2.0 firmware:


Some new games (which suck to play on a scroll wheel anyway)
On the go Playlist
Changeable Menu


You can take out the first one as its useless except trying to waste five minutes in an airport.

The second is cool but its still not the play que that everyone is looking for.

The third is definitely a nice feature.

But, and thats a big but, these features are in no way, that big of deal. These features add little to the what the ipod was made for. Your old ipod still plays the music you want.

Hell, with the amount of hours the old ipod users used to bitch, you probably could have sold your old ipod on ebay and made up the difference in your normal hourly wage.

All that for a firmware update and clicking between tracks.

9hundred
Jun 13, 2003, 11:07 PM
That petition is stupid. It is a minor issue that apple may eventually address. There is no need for thousands of signatures to prove that it should be updated.


The only petition which is worth signing is that for Half-Life 2 on the Macintosh platform!!

Durandal7
Jun 14, 2003, 03:40 AM
I think Apple should release a firmware update to make the old iPods dispense 20 dollar bills and play Unreal Tournament 2003.

Let's face it, it's equally as absurd and pointless a statement as that petition.

janey
Jun 14, 2003, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by 9hundred
The only petition which is worth signing is that for Half-Life 2 on the Macintosh platform!!
no online petition is worth signing. nobody cares, nobody looks, nobody even thinks about even looking at them. If you're really desperate for Half-Life 2 on the Mac platform, go and complain to the head of Sierra Studios. Sue them. Bug the board of directors so much that they listen to you. Get thousands of people who agree with you to call the company. It'll cause a bigger effect than just signing a petition that they don't even know about.

form
Jun 14, 2003, 02:21 PM
I think this applies to that "Noone cares, no point, blah blah" mindset that seems so incredibly prominent with the people (they could be cease-and-desist trolls from Apple) who attack this and other efforts to tell large, powerful companies not to trample all over them.

ďThey came for the Communists
and I didnít object because I wasnít a Communist;

They came for the Socialists
and I didnít object for I wasnít a Socialist;

They came for the Labour leaders
and I didnít object because I wasnít a labour leader;

They came for the Jews
and I didnít object for I wasnít a Jew;

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to object.Ē

I think we should start caring, and I think that if enough people care, then that's how mountains are moved, even an inch. Now you can tell other people you don't care, and that's all dandy and wonderful and all that you can not care so much (not caring has become quite popular these days), and the company might not be doing something you personally have any objection to right now. And then, another group might be mistreated by a powerful entity and you won't care about them either, because you don't have any personal beef with that entity. And as far as the above goes, instead of there being noone left at all, there simply won't be anyone who cares to object when the company decides to trample You. And maybe you won't realize it and will feel frustrated that noone is bothering to help you, and you won't be able to understand why...or maybe you will realize it after all; but of course it'll be too late then.

You don't make the avalanche avoid you by not caring because it's currently half a mile above you; in fact, by the time it reaches you it'll be all the more powerful. And don't call me a religious crank if you recognize the mountain analogy earlier ;)

And finally, I end by saying that I'm sure you've heard all of this before! Maybe not in the exact wording, of course, but blah blah yes you've heard it before. Well why isn't it sinking in? Because you don't actually see it before your own eyes, a ghastly, red eyed beast with menacing fangs and claws as long as your arm, tearing you into bits, devouring you while you're still alive and your mind is filled with the oblivion of futility because you know that you can do Nothing to save yourself. It's not like that? Well I guess you should just hope you never have to find out first-hand.

janey
Jun 14, 2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by form
I think this applies to that "Noone cares, no point, blah blah" mindset that seems so incredibly prominent with the people (they could be cease-and-desist trolls from Apple) who attack this and other efforts to tell large, powerful companies not to trample all over them.
then get a real petition, not an online one that nobody knows about (which is more true than you think)
for christ's sake nowadays everyone has an online petition. it'll be something totally different if it was on paper.

yzedf
Jun 16, 2003, 10:28 AM
Another option:

What if the firmware wasn't buggy to begin with? Then the updates would not be needed.

davy the bunny
Jun 16, 2003, 12:24 PM
and the old iPod did get an update, it can play AAC files now, I don't think that it could do that before.

jethroted
Jun 16, 2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by davy the bunny
and the old iPod did get an update, it can play AAC files now, I don't think that it could do that before.

I thought it could when itunes 3 came out with the ability to play aac files. I could be wrong though.

Datazoid
Jun 16, 2003, 02:42 PM
I agree with those who do not think this is a valid complaint , you bought an iPod with the features it came with. It is NOT a computer, there was never a promise of expandability and upgraded features. Kinda like when I bought my Handspring Prism. Came with Palm OS 3.5. Sure, I could get minor updates, but when 4.0 came out, no can do. With computers, the main reason to buy a new one is 'speed', display, connectivity, etc are also involved. With an iPod, what features are there to impel you to upgrade. You don't stare at the damn thing, so 'clarity' doesn't matter, you aren't running Photoshop on it, so 'speed' is irrelevant, it hooks up to your current computer, so 'connectivity' is fine. Thus, it boils down to two things: quality of listening experience and ease of use. BOTH of these will be upgraded with each new generation of iPods; Apple wants people to keep buying. I didn't see Apple sending wired remotes to all iPod 5GB owners, even though this was a lusted-after feature as well. Remember, those programmers do have to eat...

bennetsaysargh
Jun 16, 2003, 03:00 PM
AAC files were only able to play after the 1.3 release of the iPod software. iTunes coud play them, but not as well as iTunes 4. also, iTunes 3 didn't have full support for it.

PB180
Jun 16, 2003, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by form
I think this applies to that "Noone cares, no point, blah blah" mindset that seems so incredibly prominent with the people (they could be cease-and-desist trolls from Apple) who attack this and other efforts to tell large, powerful companies not to trample all over them.

"....Then they came for me
and there was no one left to object."

.... You don't make the avalanche avoid you by not caring because it's currently half a mile above you; in fact, by the time it reaches you it'll be all the more powerful. And don't call me a religious crank if you recognize the mountain analogy earlier ;)

Now, people have been making some poor, and some good analogies in this thread. But comparing the lack of solitare on an iPod to the extermination of millions of people is offensive and rude, and has no place on the MR boards.

On top of that, you haven't even picked a relevant analogy... the iPod owners complaining now will still be free to complain in the future about other Apple "atrocities" (which I'm sure they will).

bennetsaysargh
Jun 17, 2003, 06:19 AM
Panther on a lisa won't happen no matter how hard you try. it won't happen. as much as i want it on the old iPods, it wont happen.