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View Full Version : My AppleTV with OSX experience! (High res shots)




taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 01:39 AM
http://digg.com/apple/AppleTV_and_OSX_High_Res_Shots_Proof_Bluetooth_1080P

Please digg if you genuinely appreciated so that other people can see this. I don't have ads up and every hit costs me, but its all good.

Basically, this thing is a real computer substitute no matter what anyone says about too little RAM or too slow a processor. Its a tiny powerhouse! :apple:TV!

Edit - I will have Elgato EyeTV hybrid up soon for people to check out. This is also the perfect DVR and its definitely fast enough to record HD broadcasts.



macenforcer
Apr 3, 2007, 01:42 AM
I see no evidence you are running osx on that thing.

taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 01:46 AM
I see no evidence you are running osx on that thing.

Uh, right...?

Maybe you forgot to look at the pictures. Or read the words. Or click the link.

macenforcer
Apr 3, 2007, 01:50 AM
Uh, right...?

Maybe you forgot to look at the pictures. Or read the words. Or click the link.

Looked at them all. All but 2 are of the itv taken apart and the other 2 are of nothing but your laptop. It says it has firewire in the pic. I notice you don't put a pic of the About this Mac window there, its cut off.

taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 01:52 AM
Looked at them all. All but 2 are of the itv taken apart and the other 2 are of nothing but your laptop. It says it has firewire in the pic. I notice you don't put a pic of the About this Mac window there, its cut off.

Click on picture eleven or four or, smart guy. I'm happy to take any other pictures that you might like. The laptop is there to show that its not connected to the screen.

People like you make the internet awful.

macenforcer
Apr 3, 2007, 01:53 AM
Click on picture eleven or four or, smart guy. I'm happy to take any other pictures that you might like. The laptop is there to show that its not connected to the screen.

People like you make the internet awful.

You don't have to be a rotten poster. I was just saying there is no evidence. Sorry if your hoax has been exposed. I will look again ok.

Multimedia
Apr 3, 2007, 01:59 AM
http://digg.com/apple/AppleTV_and_OSX_High_Res_Shots_Proof_Bluetooth_1080P

Please digg if you genuinely appreciated so that other people can see this. I don't have ads up and every hit costs me, but its all good.

Basically, this thing is a real computer substitute no matter what anyone says about too little RAM or too slow a processor. Its a tiny powerhouse! :apple:TV!

Edit - I will have Elgato EyeTV hybrid up soon for people to check out. This is also the perfect DVR and its definitely fast enough to record HD broadcasts.Congrats on your success and courage. Can you run external USB2 HDs off a USB2 hub attached to the USB2 port for recording EyeTV HDTV to 7200rpm 3.5" 500GB-750GB HDs? i.e. run the Hybrid off one of the hub's ports while hooking a USB2 external up to another port on the hub?

How is it connected to the internet?

gmanca
Apr 3, 2007, 02:00 AM
Sweet work taylor! I'd be interested in how that ElGato Hybrid is coming out; did you use an existing USB hack or did you make your own?

taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 02:01 AM
You don't have to be a rotten poster. I was just saying there is no evidence. Sorry if your hoax has been exposed.

A hoax? Thats what I'm talking about when I say rotten things. I'm happy to take any picture showing it running however you would like to prove myself to someone I couldn't care less about, just for giggles.

I'm sorry for being pert. It just bothers me that I would go out of my way to demonstrate the merit of this thing, waste my bandwidth just so someone can call me a fraud.

Pictures 15 and 16 are just for you! No laptop, even!

http://66.45.237.254/~taylorwi/appletv/IMG_0015.JPG
http://66.45.237.254/~taylorwi/appletv/IMG_0016.JPG

Glad to see some real responses here too.

Gmanca, USB works out of the box with the OSX installation on it! The only issue that I'm having with EyeTV is that my license is bound to my other Mac.

Multimedia, I don't see why not! I've got my external harddrive hooked up with no troubles as far as I can tell.

macenforcer
Apr 3, 2007, 02:03 AM
A hoax? Thats what I'm talking about when I say rotten things. I'm happy to take any picture showing it running however you would like to prove myself to someone I couldn't care less about, just for giggles.

I'm sorry for being pert. It just bothers me that I would go out of my way to demonstrate the merit of this thing, waste my bandwidth just so someone can call me a fraud.

Pictures 15 and 16 are just for you! No laptop, even!

http://66.45.237.254/~taylorwi/appletv/IMG_0015.JPG
http://66.45.237.254/~taylorwi/appletv/IMG_0016.JPG

Well I editted the hoax part out and for some reason it didn't take. I believe you. I see the pics. I apologize. You are right, I am wrong.

Now that that is over...


How fast is it?

LMFAO! You put "Hi Macenforcer". I feel famous now. Thanks.

taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 02:08 AM
I'm sorry for losing my cool - it seems to becoming a habit (temper) and I'm workin' on it :(

Anyways, it doesn't have the *snap* that my Core 2 Duo Macbook Pro does, but then again it doesn't have 2GB RAM. I feel that it outperforms the Intel Mini that I keep hooked up to my TV, and that has 1GB RAM and a Core Solo, and its defiantly very crisp (bad word choice, but thats the best way I can describe it)

There is no lag in opening windows, iTunes etc. I haven't seen any beachball.

Multimedia
Apr 3, 2007, 02:18 AM
I don't see how you're connected to the internet. Just plain old WiFi? Have you tried adding it to your ethernet Switch or Router yet and turning off your WiFi?

taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 02:26 AM
I don't see how you're connected to the internet. Just plain old WiFi? Have you tried adding it to your ethernet Switch or Router yet and turning off your WiFi?

Plain ol' wifi. Worked right out of the box!

I'll hook it up to ethernet now and see what happens. Also, screenshots!

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2335/picture2fj0.png
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3393/picture1lc2.png

Multimedia
Apr 3, 2007, 02:45 AM
Plain ol' wifi. Worked right out of the box!

I'll hook it up to ethernet now and see what happens. Also, screenshots!

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2335/picture2fj0.png
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/3393/picture1lc2.pngHey that video is better than th MacBook and mini. But no rotation support like on the Mac Pro. Too bad the Ethernet is only 10/100BASE-T I think ruling out remote writing EyeTV files to HDs on other Macs on the net.

localoid
Apr 3, 2007, 03:19 AM
I'm sorry for losing my cool - it seems to becoming a habit (temper) and I'm workin' on it :(

Anyways, it doesn't have the *snap* that my Core 2 Duo Macbook Pro does, but then again it doesn't have 2GB RAM. I feel that it outperforms the Intel Mini that I keep hooked up to my TV, and that has 1GB RAM and a Core Solo, and its defiantly very crisp (bad word choice, but thats the best way I can describe it)

There is no lag in opening windows, iTunes etc. I haven't seen any beachball.

What's your Pagein/Pageout ratio, when you run run "vm_stat" from a terminal window?

synth3tik
Apr 3, 2007, 03:31 AM
See this is cool. This is the first time I have thought about getting an Apple TV

Diode
Apr 3, 2007, 06:21 AM
Wait so it has built in bluetooth??

Can anyone confirm? SS 12 is what I am refering to.

Max Payne
Apr 3, 2007, 06:46 AM
This is cool. I might even buy the next revision.

Thanks.

polyethyleneguy
Apr 3, 2007, 07:55 AM
Can you test out sound. I heard that the sound does not work with this type of hack. Thanks.

mkrishnan
Apr 3, 2007, 08:13 AM
Wait so it has built in bluetooth??

Can anyone confirm? SS 12 is what I am refering to.

I was wondering about this also. So system profiler says it has BT? Does BT make use of the internal antennas, or is the on-MoBo stuff enough? I'm wondering if it has BT in the chipset (because Intel bundled it) but does no have the assembly for it? Or perhaps it's for planned future accessories.

Anyway, it sounds like you're having a lot of fun with it. Good work! :)

clevin
Apr 3, 2007, 08:48 AM
is it possible to add optical drive and ram in that thing?

topicolo
Apr 3, 2007, 08:53 AM
I'm curious about its ability to play HD videos. How many fps can it do 1080p videos?

taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 09:26 AM
I'm going to fire some 1080P samples up later today and see if I can record a video of it.

I'm also working with DiaboliK on a custom video driver for the AppleTV that will allow full acceleration. At this point, it has no video acceleration at all but thats very much on its way. This will obviously have an effect on 1080P video playback.

We think it may have built in bluetooth but nobody has confirmed it working yet. Sound, as far as I can tell, works fine. I don't have any cables right now and there is no headphone jack but I will wire it into my receiver later today and play some test sounds.

I do not think it is possible to add more RAM as it is soldered to the motherboard. Any Mac compatible external optical drive will work however.

SSpiro
Apr 3, 2007, 09:30 AM
Wow, pretty slick..

princealfie
Apr 3, 2007, 10:02 AM
SO is the Apple TV the Minime Mac Mini? :D

Sdashiki
Apr 3, 2007, 10:09 AM
Getting more RAM in this bad boy would be nice. But, seems impossible. Sucks, as adding more would make this a perfect Carputer.

Kingsly
Apr 3, 2007, 01:56 PM
SO is the Apple TV the Minime Mac Mini? :D

Mac Nano :D

SSpiro
Apr 3, 2007, 02:15 PM
Getting more RAM in this bad boy would be nice. But, seems impossible. Sucks, as adding more would make this a perfect Carputer.

No doubt..

daze
Apr 3, 2007, 03:24 PM
Very cool. Keep it up.

APPLENEWBIE
Apr 3, 2007, 06:07 PM
Has anyone done a test/evaluation of whether/how the eyeTV products work with Apple TV? On their website Elgato indicates that eyeTV will record TV, and automatically download it to Itunes and then export it for iPod. Has anyone tried that? Does the programing show up in the apple tv lists? Thanks.

taylorwilsdon
Apr 3, 2007, 07:10 PM
Has anyone done a test/evaluation of whether/how the eyeTV products work with Apple TV? On their website Elgato indicates that eyeTV will record TV, and automatically download it to Itunes and then export it for iPod. Has anyone tried that? Does the programing show up in the apple tv lists? Thanks.

I think you might be missing what I'm doing here. I'm running full OSX ON my AppleTV and using the physical AppleTV to record shows with Eyetv.

srf4real
Apr 3, 2007, 07:17 PM
http://66.45.237.254/~taylorwi/appletv/IMG_0015.JPGWhat a trip! I have that exact same pencil holder on my desk!:D Oh, and congrats on the other neat trick, too.:p

zero2dash
Apr 3, 2007, 11:43 PM
Nice work ;)

robPOD
Apr 4, 2007, 04:14 AM
sweet as!!

arcsbite
Apr 4, 2007, 06:18 AM
Couple of quick questions -

Can you still run backrow if you instal the full os?
Can you still sync it to your Mac's iTunes library?

I'm looking to pick one up, thing is I want to use it as a regular Apple TV syncing and streaming from my macs, but also have safari and mail on there for "net in the den" and also it would be cool to enable Bluetooth for KB/M action

is that possible?
cheers

gkarris
Apr 4, 2007, 11:21 AM
Can you run :apple:TV with OS X and output component? My projector's VGA is wired/used as a component input.

Thanks!

thestaton
Apr 4, 2007, 02:08 PM
Do you lose the sweet gui? that a stock apple tv has?

gkarris
Apr 4, 2007, 02:09 PM
Do you lose the sweet gui? that a stock apple tv has?

Oh yes, you're running it as a Mac computer, not an Apple appliance...

camomac
Apr 5, 2007, 12:54 AM
this just keeps getting more and more exciting...

The Stig
Apr 5, 2007, 06:07 AM
Question:

I've heard you can boot :apple:tv off of a external HD. Can you get a bootable image of OSX and run in on the :apple:tv without taking it apart.

My idea is to have a LaCai drive plugged into it and ran OSX from it the USB port and have the extra USB ports on the HD for keyboard, mouse, etc.

I wouldn't want to take it apart if I didn't have to. But it would work great for my mom who only surfs the internet and plays internet games on it.

Thanks,

The Stig

shu82
Apr 5, 2007, 07:22 AM
Question:

I've heard you can boot :apple:tv off of a external HD. Can you get a bootable image of OSX and run in on the :apple:tv without taking it apart.

My idea is to have a LaCai drive plugged into it and ran OSX from it the USB port and have the extra USB ports on the HD for keyboard, mouse, etc.

I wouldn't want to take it apart if I didn't have to. But it would work great for my mom who only surfs the internet and plays internet games on it.

Thanks,

The Stig

It cant boot off of an external hard drive. There is no firewire port. All you can do is take the hard drive out, format and load it in another mac and then reinsert it.

balamw
Apr 5, 2007, 07:44 AM
It cant boot off of an external hard drive. There is no firewire port. All you can do is take the hard drive out, format and load it in another mac and then reinsert it.

AFAIK it will boot from external, but only (so far) to do a restore of the OS, which does allow you to perform some modifications without opening the box. You do have to somehow get the format right for the boot drive which either requires access to a :apple:TV drive or obtaining an image through other means.

B

spencecb
Apr 5, 2007, 07:57 AM
Wow, this is pretty exciting. Apple really outdid themselves with this, and didn't really seem to cover their tracks very well, in having consumers find out that this really is a Mac. With no optical drive. Pretty cool.

Makes me think there are bigger things to come with the first revision of this product.:apple:

taylorwilsdon
Apr 5, 2007, 09:19 AM
Sorry for my lack of replies here, I've been bizzy :p

Anyways, I'll do my best to field some of them right now. You can (although I personally haven't) boot off an external USB harddrive. Just so people know, you DON'T need firewire for that (or anything else, its a dying format :mad:)

Component video works as far as I can tell but my testing monitor does not have any component sound ports so I didn't test the sound aspect.


Can you still run backrow if you instal the full os?
Can you still sync it to your Mac's iTunes library?

Er, I guess you can. Not sure why you would want to, I think frontrow looks better. You can sync it like you would with any other Mac connected to a network and using the Library Share tool.

toru173
Apr 5, 2007, 09:57 AM
Hi everyone, first post (long time reader though)

Couple of questions for taylorwilsdon -

Firstly, have you tried using an optical drive on the same IDE bus as the hard disk? For that matter, has anyone tried to use a master and a slave device (be it harddisk or otherwise) at the same time? This would be a neat-o way of getting a cd/dvd/burner drive without using up a usb port, and would be significantly faster. Fun!

Secondly, has anyone tried installing windows? This would certainly smoke some of the entry level computers I've seen for sale, and very cheap too. I'm under the impression that the firmware in AppleTV is based on EFI, like normal macs - otherwise, how would an unmodified OSX image be able to run? it has specific TPM and EFI dependencies (that raises another question, I'll come back it it). Presumably, the EFI would be upgradeable. Perhaps you could firstly try a linux live disk (or Windows installation disk) to see if the EFI implementation supports BIOS, and if it doesn't you could always try flashing it with the firmware upgrades that came out with the initial bootcamp release. This may result in a brick, though. I don't have enough experience with this sort of thing to know.

Thirdly, can we see some xBench (or similar benchmarking) scores? I hate to be a pain, but "crisp" is very subjective. I often turn on my mac and go and make a cup of coffee while it loads, but it's fast enough for me. My father, on the other hand, thinks his new Intel iMac (2.33Ghz) is slow. I realise that the score may be effected by the lack of video driver, but still things like the cpu score and ram score would be helpful. Possibly compare to your nice snazzy lappy, or any other mac you have lying around.

*EDIT* I just found this on the xbench site: http://db.xbench.com/csi.xhtml?machineTypeID=37 can you still run the tests, and confirm a similar score? According to the 100 baseline (being a 2.0Ghz G5), this seems pretty snappy. Not far behind the Mac Mini, for (average 89)! We're looking at a little higher then half the performance for half the price. Maybe the graphics drivers will bump that up? */EDIT*

Anyways, three experiments I thought I'd contribute. The interesting point I was thinking of is this - Apple must have built the AppleTV with a TPM chip. Why? Is is because they couldn't be bothered modifying their OS to the extent of supporting non-TPM hardware? Is it to make sure the AppleTV OS isn't run on non-Apple hardware? (Has anyone tried that? I know you can run OSX on generic hardware) Perhaps it's designed as a security precaution that we'll see later - possibly an extension of DRM? I can imagine the idea of binding a license to specific hardware is attractive.

I'll slink back into the darkness now. I'm seriously seriously considering getting the AppleTV for a friend I was going to sell my aging G3 400mhz iMac DV to - I have sufficient screens etc to make up the rest of the deal. Perhaps we'll be seeing hacked AppleTVs showing up on ebay, pretending to be minis ^_^

taylorwilsdon
Apr 5, 2007, 10:44 AM
Windows and bootcamp have been run already on a AppleTV

Anonymous Freak
Apr 5, 2007, 10:57 AM
Has anyone done a test/evaluation of whether/how the eyeTV products work with Apple TV? On their website Elgato indicates that eyeTV will record TV, and automatically download it to Itunes and then export it for iPod. Has anyone tried that? Does the programing show up in the apple tv lists? Thanks.

Well, I've been using an EyeTV to record TV and transcode it to iTunes for a while now. Works just fine. It records, then it sends to iTunes. If I had a video iPod, and left it plugged in, it would sync to the iPod automatically. I assume you could have it sync with an :apple:tv the same way; although since I don't have an :apple:tv, I can't confirm.

toru173
Apr 5, 2007, 11:09 AM
taylorwilsdon: Sweet. Any details or a web link? I did a quick search but I couldn't find anything. However, I found the following on awkwardTV (http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/):

"Since Apple TV is EFI-based and apparently has no CSM BIOS emulation, we need an EFI-based bootloader."

This confirms what I mentioned before. Wondering how the BIOS compatibility was worked out. What I'd like now is some futureMark scores under XP - I can think of so many integrated systems that would be completely blown away by this. Has anyone else heard of the VIA mini-ITX series? Another interesting idea would be to try ATITool or Clockgen, to see if it can be overclocked at all. Would be interesting!

syriana
Apr 5, 2007, 11:28 AM
anybody had try Keynote app on that? it seems a perfect fit for that..
but keynote is said (by :apple: ) to require 512 Mo RAM...
I saw an app that can sync USB stick content on OSX on two different Mac.
Then you have your Mac at home, your :apple: TV where you usually do your presentation (college, university, others..) and travel with only the weight of your usb stick!! for 299$!! would be cool..

Avatar74
Apr 5, 2007, 02:30 PM
I'm just waiting to find out how many people end up frying their AppleTV by sticking in larger hard drives that could potentially generate heat beyond the tested tolerances of the ostensibly fanless unit.

When they realize they've voided their warranties and are out $300 plus the cost of the new drive, maybe they'll be thinking, "Hmm, maybe Apple limited it to a 40 gigabyte drive for a good reason."

Erendiox
Apr 5, 2007, 07:41 PM
I'm just waiting to find out how many people end up frying their AppleTV by sticking in larger hard drives that could potentially generate heat beyond the tested tolerances of the ostensibly fanless unit.

When they realize they've voided their warranties and are out $300 plus the cost of the new drive, maybe they'll be thinking, "Hmm, maybe Apple limited it to a 40 gigabyte drive for a good reason."

Somehow I doubt this will happen. Harddrives have never been huge heat producers. And besides, increasing the capacity doesn't increase heat output. The only thing that might is increasing the RPMs, and even then, it's minimal, although, I wouldn't go sticking 10K raptors in there... :eek: :p

Also, i'm sure apple put 40 gig hard drives in there to keep the manufacturing cost down, not because of heating issues.

taylorwilsdon
Apr 5, 2007, 07:44 PM
Too bad the drive I put in is much higher quality then the trash that Apple puts stock. Capacity is very rarely a cause for incresed operating temperature (moving from 40 to 160gb will raise temps a bit but disc speed (rpms). The quality of the drive has more of an impact then anything else.

edit - other guy beat me to the punch. Thanks bro - somebody knows what he is talking about!

jkieffer72
Apr 5, 2007, 08:07 PM
I'm just waiting to find out how many people end up frying their AppleTV by sticking in larger hard drives that could potentially generate heat beyond the tested tolerances of the ostensibly fanless unit.

When they realize they've voided their warranties and are out $300 plus the cost of the new drive, maybe they'll be thinking, "Hmm, maybe Apple limited it to a 40 gigabyte drive for a good reason."

Can you point me to some specs that show that larger capacity drives generate more heat, or are you just making assumptions?

jkieffer72
Apr 5, 2007, 08:09 PM
Can you point me to some specs that show that larger capacity drives generate more heat, or are you just making assumptions?

Tee-hee... I guess a couple others had the same thougths I did...:D

MacBass
Apr 5, 2007, 10:56 PM
Would the modded :apple: TV display correctly on a 4:3 monitor/TV? I would imagine it would with OS X running, but I'm just curious. I might suggest this option to my dad.

nplima
Apr 6, 2007, 07:08 AM
looks like there's a lot of different hardware where people would like to run OS X... that's good news for the people at OSx86 project ;)

folks who would like a unixy way of having a DVR/media centre and prefer 100% legit software should have a look at this one: http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html

Avatar74
Apr 6, 2007, 08:32 AM
Can you point me to some specs that show that larger capacity drives generate more heat, or are you just making assumptions?

After further reading elsewhere I discovered that the biggest heat producer in the AppleTV by far is the CPU. Granted, I don't expect there to be huge variances in heat generated by drives of different sizes... but installing any hardware substitute whose exact tolerances have not been tested has some risk associated with it. That risk could be anywhere from minimal to great...

The way the AppleTV is designed, using the exterior aluminum chassis as one big baffle to lose heat... and aluminum loses heat quite efficiently... it is more likely to push the tolerances very quickly with the accumulation of heat compared to a device that is actively ventilated. So would a normal device be sensitive to the slightest change in interior heat, probably not. Might this device? I don't know...

... but that of course is why I said "I wonder how many". Not "Many people will"...

dscotts
Apr 18, 2007, 05:20 PM
Just got my ATV and EyeTV250 today to try and get my AppleTiVo going.

Any suggestions would be helpful. I am green at hacking - this might be over my head but I am willing to learn...

taylorwilsdon
Apr 20, 2007, 01:03 AM
Its pretty straightforward. Good luck installing software though, I'm having some real trouble mounting DMG's in my OSX installation on my AppleTV with OSX. I'm ending up having to install them via enclosure then dropping the HD back into the AppleTV.