Help convert sister to imac and not a DELL!

[macstudent]

Hi,

I was hoping all of your could help me convince my sister and her finace to buy the new imac. Here is the situation:

My sister and her fiance are both about 31. She is a teacher and is currently using a powerbook g3 233. After their marriage this summer they will be buying a new computer. Her fiance wants to get a Dell with a flat screen. Both of them are not very computer literate. My sister knows how to use both macs and pc's, but is not a pro by any means. He on the other hand is a beginner that has problems with most tasks.

The problem is that he is stubborn and set in his ways about getting a computer. This is how he descriped what he wants to get. " I want a fast computer that looks cool, flat screen, and a burner, but I don't want to spend a lot of money" Now that is the new imac!

I mentioned this to them, but he ruled it out instantly because he said that macs suck, and thats it. He does like to play games, so I give them that arguement, but he doesn't play that much and he has a short attention span with the few games he does play. My sister has the only valid arguement against it. She likes to talk on yahoo messenger, but she wants to do the video conferencing with a webcam. Currently you can only do this on a pc.

I have told her about virtual PC and that I would install it for her and teach her everything she needs to know. I also mentioned total cost of ownership, ease of use, and the fact that she is a teacher and they have all macs at her school. But it is not working.

Please give me your advice. The shipping times of the lowend mac will hopefully not be an issue since they will be buying their computer mid june.

Thanks

[krossfyter]

Im assuming the guy has the old sterotype against the mac. He does not know much about the new ones so his ignorance to the mac blinds him in wanting a dell. Try and find out why exaclty he does not want a mac....ask him...dont take "becuase macs suck" for an answer. If he gives you a reason other then the "suck" one then report back to us. If he doesnt then beat him with that. lol

But please do ask him or have your sister do it.... and report it to us.

[krossfyter]

can anyone else offer any help or suggestions? i know you all are looking.:D

[stoid]

The main reason my friends don't like the mac is because its gaming platform is a bit lacking. Of course you can get emulator like Virtual PC but there are other options that may be cheaper. I don't know if SoftWindows has developed software for OS X.

[DNA]

...just tell him this:

My father has had nothing but macs at his department and at home since the mid-80s. ALL COMPUTERS STILL WORK (Even the old Mac Plus and SE ones). AND THE SUPPORT COST FOR HIS DEPARTMENT IS A FRACTION OF THE SUPPORT COST FOR THE WINDOWS PC DEPARTMENTS AT THE SAME UNIVERSITY.

I know three people who have had DELL computers at home. Two of these three has quit working within two years. One of them suddenly shuts down and starts sounding like a pinball game once in a while. If they're gonna buy a windows PC, at least make sure it's not a DELL...

All my friends who use a Windows PC at home either do not use them because they have problems with them, need a geek friend to help them with hard- and software problems, or know a lot about the latter themselves.

I, on the other hand, don't know a lot about computers, but I HAVE NEVER HAD TO LEARN, my Macs have worked fine anyway.

That's it, I guess. If you don't want to spend your time working on the computer itself: Get the imac!

And, by the way, the coolness factor of this creature has definitely made an impression on my PC-stubborn friends too, so if these guys are the show-off kind of people, tell them that too.

Good luck

[krossfyter]

thats a good point dna. if the guy does not know about comps in the first place then he should get one that would give him the least amount of trouble. the only ones that fit the bill are definitly the macs. if he still does not change his mind then go to plan b.

[buffsldr]

Some people just have to learn the hard way.

"Dude, he's getting a Dell!" (Way to go for brand loyalty, Michael. What is the difference between a dell and the other 50 peecee brands? Nada. Oh, wait, there is, the logo on the front. )

And by the way, have you guys seen that IBM commercial where the 20 something Leisure Suit Larry look-a-like is trolling an ibm comp with monitor through the call center telling the operators they better answer their phone because the calls will start any minute? Am I the only one who looked at that and laughed. I can't believe they were serious. That thing looked awful. It reminded me of my parents old 486 with a 100mb hard drive. Ouch.

[krossfyter]

yep i got a kick outa that commercial also...funny.

[macstudent]

Thanks for the input. I have in fact, brought by sister to a local comp usa and we both were in awe of the new imac. The problem is, they both still have the stereo types that nothing works with a mac. The problem is that no matter what they get, I will be the one helping them. I would LOVE to get them on the mac bandwagon, but I can't put too much pressure on them or they will just ignore what I have to say. And it is familiy so I will still troubleshoot their crappy new PC if they choose to get one.

[macstudent]

THe other major arguement that my sister has is about yahoo messenger. She wants to be using her webcam, but the logitech webcam is not mac compatible. The mac yahoo messenger does not support the video webcam's either. THis is a big point for her, and I have the feeling that she thinks this is how everything will be like if she gets a mac. This is not true of course.

[mcrain]

I don't know if this will help, but I was a die hard pc nut. I made fun of my friends and their macs for years. I seriously thought macs sucked and wouldn't even consider them.

That being said, I bought a very high end IBM (don't laugh - at the time, it was as the best available) and it screamed on games. Shortly thereafter, my friend updated his mac. About two years ago, I bought a high end Compaq. It also screamed on games, etc... I now need to replace it, cause, well, it's slow and it stinks. Lots of blue screens and errors and crashes.

Guess what, the Mac my friend bought still is chugging along as a very nice desktop unit. No need for replacement yet.

Dude, your getting a Dell is a very good slogan, because, if they get a dell, they will be buying them every couple of years.

I've learned my lesson. For my next computer, I'm buying an Apple laptop, and then after that, an Apple tower.

[Taft]

There are *tons* of reviews out there for Macs and Mac products right now.

Most head-to-head reviews of the iMac/iBook/TiBook and their PC counterparts come out sounding very favorable towards the Macs. Also, look for software reviews (ie. iTunes, iMovie, MS office for Mac) to help show them that software does exist for the Mac and most times its better than its PC counterpart. Finally, show them some of the positive articles written by the growing number of PC converts. There are a lot of people saying a lot of very good things about the Mac platform right now. Use them to your advantage.

Your sis and her husband should do some research before buying a computer, right? Help them do that research. Give them lots of stuff to read for both PCs and Macs. Show them *exactly* what Macs can do and *exactly* what they can't do. People are often surprised when they find out how much Macs can actually handle. The best way to do this is a hands on demo with some reasonably good hardware.

Also, don't fail to point out the Macs good points AND bad points. One of the best ways to show that your are not a Mac zealot trying to convert them is by making concessions about the Mac platform. Are Macs perfect? Nope. Are they better than their PC counterparts? I say yes. Play this angle.

Good luck. I'm behind you 100% in your efforts. They are noble efforts.

Matthew

[Macmaniac]

Be sure to point out how much cheaper it will be to own a mac then a DELL, there is no doubt that they will be spending many happy hours with Dell tech support as they some how "Accidentally" erase the HD.
Good luck
I feel sorry for your sister

[macstudent]

Thanks for all of your help. They will not purchase a computer without my help anyway since I am the "computer person" in the family.

I plan on printing out varrious review and comparions. I hope to reason with them. Also, I have told her that I will not allow her to buy a new computer without having both of them go to comp USA and they can look at the imac in person together. I have the feeling that when he sees how cool this is, he will want one.

I have a question. The low end imac only comes with 128mb RAM for $1250 (after teacher discount, another plus), but is 128 enough for their day to day use in OSX? They will be surfing the internet over DSL, using office, play a game now and then, and listening to music.

One more quick note. I just thought of an ace I have up my sleave. I can sweeten the deal by telling them that I will buy them a digital camera for their wedding present if they buy the imac. I was planning on spending $200-250 on them anyway. And camera prices are so low right now that by this summer I will be able to get them a nice one.

Thanks for all of your help again.

[mischief]

128 is SKIMPY for OS X. Put as much RAM as possible in it.

[macstudent]

The problem is that on the lowend imac it only comes with 128 internal. The only option to bumpup the internal ram is to 512 which is an extra $313! That is out of the question for my sister. That leaves the option of adding the additonal ram myself, but they will not want to spend the money on a 512 chip for the external. But I don't want them to be stuck later on when they want and/or need more ram.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by macstudent
The problem is that on the lowend imac it only comes with 128 internal. The only option to bumpup the internal ram is to 512 which is an extra $313! That is out of the question for my sister. That leaves the option of adding the additonal ram myself, but they will not want to spend the money on a 512 chip for the external. But I don't want them to be stuck later on when they want and/or need more ram.

You can upgrade the RAM via the upgrade the slot in the bottom later on. The 512 SO-DIMMs are about $200. Apple charges pretty high for their RAM.

[Choppaface]

there is no way that you're going to do video conferencing on virtual PC. you can't watch any video on that thing, its way to slow. I can't even get a decent 5 fps or so playback in VPC4 or 5 on my dual G4 500.

[cleo]

Originally posted by buffsldr

"Dude, he's getting a Dell!" (Way to go for brand loyalty, Michael. What is the difference between a dell and the other 50 peecee brands? Nada. Oh, wait, there is, the logo on the front. )



Actually, there does seem to be a difference. While all Windows machines seem equally susceptible to the BSOD, rapid obsolete status, etc, Dells distinguish themselves by having remarkably crappy hardware reliability as well. My friend has had a Dell laptop since May. In less than a year se has had to have the optical drive replaced twice, and then last week her screen just up and died. If your sister and her husband aren't to be swayed by OS arguments, the high quality of the hardware might be the ticket. My school has a lab of 18 13-year-old Macs. Yes, they're slow; yes, they're ugly (and are running At Ease - yuck!). But they're also running Office 98 without a problem. Show me a 13-year-old Dell that can do *that*!

(Also, I should add that my mom - who, after using Windows machines at work for years, still calls me nearly daily because she can't do what she wants to do - sat down at my iMac and had no trouble at all moving around in OS X. For someone like your future brother-in-law who has little computer background, the intuitiveness of OS X can't be beat).

[Choppaface]

all laptops seem to crap out pretty easily at one point or another. my G3 pb has no rubber feet anymore, by friends first revision ibook is missing the leaf to its apple, and my dad has had to have both his hard drive and dvd-rom drive replaced in his first revision powerbook g4

[dualburn001]

Originally posted by Choppaface
all laptops seem to crap out pretty easily at one point or another. my G3 pb has no rubber feet anymore, by friends first revision ibook is missing the leaf to its apple, and my dad has had to have both his hard drive and dvd-rom drive replaced in his first revision powerbook g4

yea, but i highly doubt all this happened in less than a year after they purchased them

[macstudent]

Thanks again.

After I get back from spring break, Virgina beach:) next week, I will be gathering information to show them. I am going to print out a dell, gateway, and apple pricelist of comparible systems. I will then make a list of the pro's and cons of each. I intend to include everything you have discussed here.

Thanks again, and I will let you know how it turns out. But I feel that there is only about a 33% chance I can change there mind, but where there is a will there is a way!

[kishba]

refuse to ever help them again if they get a dell

that's what i would do (but i probably would help anyway and just rub it in their face)

yahoo messanger is a pretty weak excuse to keep using a pc.... it's like saying "i can't use windows because it doesn't adium" wait, i say that now anyways heheeheheh :)

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by dualburn001


yea, but i highly doubt all this happened in less than a year after they purchased them

apple leaf fell off after 3 years of use. my rubber feet are gone after 2 years of use, technically though they fell off after 1 month of putting it in my back pack. but for the g4 pb, the hard drive crapped out in the first 5 days of use (it started clicking *just* as i had finished transfering all his files over..grrr..) and the dvd-rom died in the first 6 months. also recently some plastic part near the opening button broke

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Choppaface


apple leaf fell off after 3 years of use. my rubber feet are gone after 2 years of use, technically though they fell off after 1 month of putting it in my back pack. but for the g4 pb, the hard drive crapped out in the first 5 days of use (it started clicking *just* as i had finished transfering all his files over..grrr..) and the dvd-rom died in the first 6 months. also recently some plastic part near the opening button broke

The first two instances are just cosmetic and didn't happen for a long time. If that's the worst thing that happened to them, then you're in great shape.

As for the PBG4 you either got a bad HD, or it got slammed when it was reading writing. If you move your notebook too fast (drop it) while it's accessing the HD you can do permanent damage.
As for the DVD...I don't know.:rolleyes:

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by macstudent
The problem is that on the lowend imac it only comes with 128 internal. The only option to bumpup the internal ram is to 512 which is an extra $313! That is out of the question for my sister. That leaves the option of adding the additonal ram myself, but they will not want to spend the money on a 512 chip for the external. But I don't want them to be stuck later on when they want and/or need more ram.

a 512mb chip costs about $130. with that and the 128 chip they should be fine.

here is my reccommended vendor. i love these guys
http://www.memoryx.net/im70flatscre.html

transintl.com has it for about 149. not bad either.

and then if you are feeling ambitious you can replace the factory install ram, its cheaper.

[think_different]

In short terms:

-Reliability / Good hardware

-Low cost maintenance

-Software exists for everything they need
(ask them what they will need in software terms and show them the Mac's counterparts; Mac's will not have 200 programs to do a thing but the 20 they have are the best; remember : Mac's just use the best! )

-Connectivity
( Mac's are always prepared to connect to everything! )

Then, prepare the documentation ( magazine and internet reviews and praises ) and put them in front of an iMac ( if you can, in an Apple store or any good reseller that has a wealthy supply of software ) and lead the drive ( see, for instance, the report of a new convert at RAILhead Design of 14-03-02, www.railheaddesign.com ). The iMac will sell himself!:D

Good idea that of a camera as a gift! Show them what they can do with it at the store.
And refuse to support the Dell!

About the Yahoo messenger : can anyone else help macstudent?

[buffsldr]

i got this from maclaw.org

http://www.bobrk.com/lmms/mac/gartner.html

http://macworld.zdnet.com/1999/01/opinion/desktopcritic.html

http://micro.uoregon.edu/mactowin/transition.html

http://www.pathcom.com/~kat/AppleJedi/truecosts.html

http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/mac/Death-of-a-Thousand-Stings.html

[macktheknife]

I'm a recent Mac convert (I've returned to the community after pawning off my dell and plunking down some cash for a TiBook), and I totally agree with the "total cost of ownership" theory, the overall stability of OS X, the high-quality of Macs, etc. So while I certainly do wish you luck in converting your sister and brother-in-law, you should really let fate take its course.

Your brother-in-law is ready to get a PC because he could supposedly play more games and your sister seems to value using the webcam highly. With so much mental attachment to the PC (justified or not), they will be disappointed if they can't do what they *think* they should be doing with their computer. Making movies with iDVD, ripping music on iTunes, and organizing photos with iPhoto are probably things they could do with the computer that haven't occurred to them.

In any case, people like me appreciated a Mac much more once we saw the blue screen of death for the billionth time and experienced countless hours of fun with "plug-and-pray." Perhaps let them get their Dell, let the odds play themselves out (i.e. the computer will most likely crash again and again for no reason other than being used) before reminding them about the Mac.

Good luck!

[Pepzhez]

Sit them down and let them poke about in OS X. That alone has already converted several Windows users I know.

Scatter some files (text, music, whatever) in various places. Let them see how they can move things around at ease and at will. Make sure they see how everything will STILL WORK.

THEN let them try this very same operation in Windows. Let them attempt to access "missing" files, let them experience the frustration of "missing components" in apps, etc.

Show them where an app resides in the system folder. Show them an extension. Let them see how easy it is to remove or move apps. Now show them all the .dlls and crab's nest of hidden files lurking in the bowels of Windows. That is the most effective scare tactic I know of.

Good luck! I'd hate to see ANYONE buy a damn Dell.

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


As for the PBG4 you either got a bad HD, or it got slammed when it was reading writing. If you move your notebook too fast (drop it) while it's accessing the HD you can do permanent damage.
As for the DVD...I don't know.:rolleyes:

must've been a bad drive, cuz we treated it like a baby when he got it. was a 30 gig too....he's had bad luck though before. his PB G3 (which is now mine) had a horrible formatting error where it would not free up empty disk space. but ya those are the only really bad hardware probs I've had with macs after using them (and using them *hard* :D) for the last 4 or 5 years

[jermsmingy]

My sister and her husband have been considering buying a new computer. My sister knows next to nothing about a computer and her husband knows a little but not to much. Anyway, I have been on a mac for 2 years now and I try to sell everyone I know on macs. I just kept hitting home and showing them what I have. I think they really want the new imac. Anyway, my point is just keep hammering home that macs are better and can do everything that they want to do. They will come around. Also, I was in CompUsa the other day and I saw a webcam that was compatible with Mac OS X. I can't remember which one, but that should take care of one problem.

[krossfyter]

windows code is messy. windows is in the dark ages now. anything realiable and stable is unix based now a days. slap them with that crap.

[IndyGopher]

Maybe I am just too lazy to fight with people anymore over the PC vs. Mac thing.. old age and all getting to me... but I use this analogy if someone really wants to know what I think.
AOL claims to have nearly 30 million subscribers. That is 30 MILLION times $24 a month. ($720,000,000 a MONTH, or $8,640,000,000 a year) If that is the case, I think their stock holders need to have a word with them. Anyway.. they are counting the total number of people who have EVER signed up for AOL, not people who currently USE AOL. Dell does the same thing when they talk about how many Dell users there are. (To be fair, I think Apple dabbles in this sort of fuzzy reasoning, too) The numbers that matter, in my opinion at least, is how many people have bought a SECOND Dell after using one for a few years? I work at a place that buys and sells used computers (as well as new ones) and I can tell you that from talking to the people who are selling us their Dells (most of which are quite new, less than 2 years old) ONLY the customers who have servers or high end machines would even consider another Dell. The low prices Dell pastes all over the back of every PC magazine and their twice-hourly commercials are for machines that almost no one seems to buy twice.
On the other hand, the few macs we do get are usually either old, (beige 603's and 604's) or iMacs (mostly Bondi's and early fruits). The people selling them, though, with few exceptions, are either buying another iMac, or selling their iMacs and going to CompUSA next door to buy new PowerMac towers.
In my more cynical moments, I attribute this to the customers having hardware and software that is Mac, and they are stubbornly sticking to their investments. The problem is, if you have a beige 603 or 604, none of the stuff you have will WORK with the new Macs, unless you drop hundreds of dollars on adapters. (Firewire->SCSI, USB->serial, USB->ADB, etc) So the truth is, people buy second, third, fourth, etc Macs because they LIKE them.
Most of the people that DO buy PCs again and again buy a different brand each time, or thinking there is some magic in custom machines, switch from brand names to having a clone built. There are two clone shops within walking distance from us, in addition to CompUSA and Circuit City. We trade PC customers like kids trade Pokemon stuff. Each customer through the door tells us how the machine that "XYZ CloneShop" built for them is crap, and they want us to build them a new one. We do, of course, because business in America in the 21st century means you smile and nod and gouge the stupid people. We do a fair job, I think, of researching what they want the machine to do, and build what I think is a good PC. I am not so delusional, though, as to think that in a year they won't be at the next shop down the street saying that we built them a crappy computer and they want THAT place to build them a new one. PC's are every bit as disposable as toasters to most people... because they have been trained to believe that you have to seriously upgrade or replace them every 18 months... or at least every time a new version of Windows is released.
In short, try to save your sister the grief of buying any PC, be it Dell, Compaq, IBM, whatever.. but don't make yourself crazy doing it. If they buy one, just know that you'll have another chance to convert them in 18-24 months, and you'll have lots more arguments in Mac's favor then... "hey, remember that time I told you to buy a Mac? Wanna LISTEN this time?"

[number 6]

Hey macstudent

What ever happen to your sister and her new computer purchase? Were you able help her and her husband? My brother in law could not get past the apple myth that a mac cannot run MS office, even after I showed him and let him see Office for OS X. And even after his bad experience with his old winblows he still bought a new dell. Some people still can't get a clue.

number 6

"By hook or by crook"

[mmmdreg]

are they planning on selling their old computer? If not, they could just use the PC for yahoo or whatever and the Mac for everything else...just let them use your mac vs. their PC for a week and they'll be converted...only idiots say "no, 'cause Macs suck"

[ftaok]

Originally posted by kishba
refuse to ever help them again if they get a dell

that's what i would do (but i probably would help anyway and just rub it in their face)

yahoo messanger is a pretty weak excuse to keep using a pc.... it's like saying "i can't use windows because it doesn't adium" wait, i say that now anyways heheeheheh :) I agree with kishba. Let 'em get the Dell. When it starts to crap out or crash every other day, just say, "Shoulda got the iMac". And refuse to help.

That'll learn 'em.