Target to Carry Apple TVs? [Archive]

MacRumors

Apr 20, 2007, 01:51 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider claims (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/04/20/target_stores_to_pick_up_apple_tv.html) that Target stores will begin carrying Apple's new Apple TV at retail locations by the end of the month.

Target will reportedly mimic Apple Stores with a full demonstration unit connected to a widescreen HDTV. No further details on the size of the launch are available, but Target already offers the Apple TV (http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/sr=1-1/qid=1177048053/ref=sr_1_1/601-7739730-7596110?ie=UTF8&asin=B000MQNMQ6) for sale on their online store.

The news comes in the wake of earlier reports (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/22/apple-tv-at-best-buy/) that Best Buy had gained a brief "exclusive" on Apple TV sales for the first few weeks. According to anecdotal reports, sales of Apple TVs at Best Buys have been slow.

The Apple TV has seen a lot of interest in the technical community with efforts to hack and expand the device. Whether or not Apple TV will enjoy a large consumer adoption remains to be seen.

4God

Apr 20, 2007, 01:56 AM

Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Just doesn't seem right for some reason. :rolleyes:
I understand the target audience, but I just couldn't see myself walking
into Target for some Apple advice/info, even if it were for just the AppleTV.

DMann

Apr 20, 2007, 02:01 AM

siurpeeman

Apr 20, 2007, 02:02 AM

it makes sense. target sells ipods and hdtvs. it isn't a stretch to sell apple tvs, too.

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 02:03 AM

quigleybc

Apr 20, 2007, 02:08 AM

This news is positively huge,

I am flabbergasted and floored...

Oh wait....

nevermind, :rolleyes:

4God

Apr 20, 2007, 02:09 AM

True, but then again, the advice you get at Comp USA is not all that much better....

You're right about that, I guess I'll stick the online store.

macsforme

Apr 20, 2007, 02:10 AM

Cool, we need Apple products spread to as many stores as are willing to carry them. :-)

chris.niziolek

Apr 20, 2007, 02:11 AM

Yes, but will they mimic Apple Stores with the utter crap quality video media being used for the Apple Store demo units?

I hope not.
I have yet to see an apple store display. I highly doubt that apple would demo a video that is of "poor quality". Maybe you just have way too high of standards.

GanleyBurger

Apr 20, 2007, 02:13 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

[url="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/04/20/target_stores_to_pick_up_apple_tv.html"]. According to anecdotal reports, sales of Apple TVs at Best Buys have been slow.

Whether or not Apple TV will enjoy a large consumer adoption remains to be seen.

Duh...

No one knows what the thing does!!! All the commercials say is "If it's on your computer... and on your ipod... it's now on your TV" or something. What the hell does that mean???:(

Sorry, Apple. Remember English class:eek: ..... "Show, don't tell" your reader about things.

The days of cute little hip ads need to go. Show show show.:)

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 02:23 AM

I have yet to see an apple store display. I highly doubt that apple would demo a video that is of "poor quality". Maybe you just have way too high of standards.

I wish you were right. Frankly, I couldn't believe what I was seeing either. The video demos were bad. Really bad. Not quite YouTube bad, but they looked closer to YouTube than they did to DVD. Honestly.

If you read any of the forums just after the AppleTV was released, you would have seen others report the same thing, from stores across the country (I had hoped it was just an issue at my local store).

I'm not sure what went wrong, as owners of AppleTVs later confirmed that video really did look better than what was shown at the Apple Stores. So why the demos were (are?) so bad is a mystery that remains unexplained. But seeing these things in action gave me a "no way I'm buying one of these if this is what the video looks like" reaction. And I typically have a hard time finding fault in Apple products.

Someone should have been fired for the junk those demo units were churning out for all the world to see.

robPOD

Apr 20, 2007, 02:26 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Whether or not Apple TV will enjoy a large consumer adoption remains to be seen.

does anyone now how well the :apple: tv is selling?

Bonte

Apr 20, 2007, 02:28 AM

EricNau

Apr 20, 2007, 02:36 AM

Apple is really pushing these things. They really do believe that the Apple TV is the next iPod. I guess we'll see.

GFLPraxis

Apr 20, 2007, 03:07 AM

swingerofbirch

Apr 20, 2007, 04:40 AM

Yeah, I don't think some people are even getting what the Apple TV commercial says. Most of my friends don't use computers the way we (the people on this board) do. They are just starting to import CDs into iTunes. I doubt they know iTunes even sells movies. So that first shot of the iMac playing a movie might as well be a shot of the iMac playing the DVD of the same movie. Then they show it on the iPod. I for the life of me can't understand why anyone would want to watch a full length movie on an iPod (I have a video iPod and never use it for video)...and then the finale, now it's on your TV! Wait, what? The DVD that was playing on the iMac is playing on the TV, yeah I could already do that....Oh, no? You mean I can buy one of 250 movies from iTunes that is almost DVD quality, buy a $299 Apple TV and stream one of those movies to my high definition TV? Yay! It just doesn't make sense! Why does Apple require a widescreen TV, which are usually HDTV, if their content is below DVD quality and many of their shows they offer are still in standard format 4:3?

I don't GET this product or WHY they introduced it, my best guess is that its to please investors beause it smocks of synergy? But I didn't think Apple was the type of company to make a product for the sake of making one...

I can see that this product would be useful when hard disks are big enough on computers to store a typical number of movies in a person's library and when iTunes offers something more rare (HD movies). Right now it's just a burden to store movies on a computer (too much space) and it's not worth it (better quality on DVD).

It's like Steve Jobs said about the Zune having that silly song sharing feature: why not just do the natural thing and share an ear bud! Well, I think it's true with this, why not just take the DVD out of the iMac and put it in your DVD player!!!!

AlanAudio

Apr 20, 2007, 05:10 AM

I'm not sure that the general public are ready for Apple TV yet.

It's nicely made and well designed but I don't get any sense of ordinary people being excited about them at the moment.

Until such time as it's established as a good solution and with a wide selection of content, I think it's better sold at specialist outlets, otherwise there is the risk that it could be sold to people who don't properly understand what it is, or be sold by people who don't properly understand what it's intended to do. Either way, there is the risk that some customers may find that it isn't what they think it was going to be and it make acquire some negative associations.

Selling via Apple stores and in similar outlets is a much better way to ensure that it's sold well and for the right reasons. Once it takes off and has become established, widening the range of outlets would be a natural step to take,

russellb

Apr 20, 2007, 05:22 AM

sgarringer

Apr 20, 2007, 07:21 AM

The news comes in the wake of earlier reports (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/22/apple-tv-at-best-buy/) that Best Buy had gained a brief "exclusive" on Apple TV sales for the first few weeks. According to anecdotal reports, sales of Apple TVs at Best Buys have been slow.

I went to 3 separate Best Buy's and was told in two that "they don't carry Apple stuff". The other one the guy said he'd go ask someone if they have a TV Apple, even after I corrected him twice and he never came back. I ended up finding them there, in a dark corner next to Tivo Series 2 boxes. No display, no nothing, just 3 AppleTVs sitting there with not so much as a price tag.

Yeah, its no wonder they havn't been flying off the shelves.

MacVault

Apr 20, 2007, 07:30 AM

....Apple Stores with the utter crap quality video media being used for the Apple Store demo units?

Ha!:D You've got that right! I couldn't belevie the crappy quality video on the Apple TV demos the other day at the Novi, MI store. What are they thinking???

As for the Target deal... well, I can't stand Target stores. I try to avoid them at all costs. When I walk in I feel like I'm stepping into the red-xenon-light decontamination room on the movie Andromeda Strain :D Target needs to re-think their interior design.

mrparet

Apr 20, 2007, 07:37 AM

I have yet to see an apple store display. I highly doubt that apple would demo a video that is of "poor quality". Maybe you just have way too high of standards.

No, the Apple store demo unit's media looks craptastic. Grainy, pixalated... Not exactly a good way to entice customers. The :apple:TV that was streaming content from a near by computer looked great, however.

Tara Davis

Apr 20, 2007, 07:39 AM

ummm I dont understand how a few of the previous posts can say Apple TV has no place or they cant understand the product.

Simple ... I record all my TV on my Mac in my office at home BUT like 99% of most households when I site down to TV after getting home from work I dont want to stuff about with keyboards and mouse or watch it on my mac.

Whats not to get ????

I dont get why people dont get it

In other words, if you are one of the few people out there who uses a Computer as a PVR (like I do), or store a lot of other video files on your Mac (ditto)...

But you DON'T have that media-center computer hooked up to... you know... a media center.

So :apple: TV is a $300 way of doing what a good HDMI cable would do for you, oh and you have to give up surround sound to do it, since the :apple: TV outputs stereo only. Yay.

A much better solution:

Buy a computer (the Mac mini is as good a choice as any), hook it up to an HDTV system (or a really big computer monitor if the room is small enough), use bluetooth keyboard & mouse from your comfy recliner.

Now you don't need an :apple: TV, nor do you need office furniture, nor do you need a separate TV/Monitor. You just saved a fortune.

"But I want my computer in the office and the TV in the living room"

No problem. Use a MacBook. When you want to watch TV, carry it into the living room and plug it in to your TV set. When you would rather use it as a computer in the den, unplug it from the TV and carry it back to your desk. Done.

Yes, if you MUST keep your iMac (or whatever) in another room and you MUST be able to watch files from THAT computer on your TV set and you DON'T have any media files incompatible with (or poorly performing on) the QuickTime engine and you DO have an HDTV and you DON'T mind that many of the available content is not in high-def and you DON'T mind that your media will not be in true surround... Then congratulations, you are one of the six or seven people in the world for whom the :apple: TV is the best possible solution.

For everybody else, the :apple: TV is a poor substitute for just plugging a mini into your TV set, and before you start going off about the price of a mini vs. $300... keep in mind that those who own wide-screen TV's are people who are willing to pay more for the better media solution. Hooking up a computer directly is BY FAR the better solution, to the point that somebody with a $5000 TV set at $2000 sound system will not sneeze at paying an extra $400 to do it right.

russellb

Apr 20, 2007, 07:52 AM

Very Wrong !

"since the TV outputs stereo only" I have Apple TV Optical out to my tuner and get 5.1 sound thank you very much.

What you mean is Itunes only sells Dolby surround up till now, but Apple TV will pass any 5.1 sound straight to your tuner.

I did have my Mac Mini hoked up to my TV and it works fine BUT as you read in my post the average person does not want to bother with a computer, keyboard etc etc

They just want to sit down and watch TV with no fuss.

Thats why Apple TV will succeeed.

Not by catering to the people who want to hook up media centr's and mac mini's etc .. there will wlays be those BUT thats not the masses and thats what apple hopes to cater to.

"Then congratulations, you are one of the six or seven people in the world for whom the TV is the best possible solution."

One of the major things the average person wants is to watch all their TV content and while there is a delay at present exporting from EYETV to Apple TV at least it's all automatic and will improve in speed I am sure.

The average person (the masses) dont rip DVD's , dont have lots of ripped content dumped on media computers. They watch TV , they buy a few programs from Itunes and they record TV... thats what Apple TV caters to.

russellb

Apr 20, 2007, 08:00 AM

"Hooking up a computer directly is BY FAR the better solution"

Not at the moment it's not

Thats what I had and juggling remotes, bluetooth mouse and sometimes keyboard is not what I want to do. I want simplicity, so does my family

If you want a media centre PC thats fine .. nothing wrong with that BUT the biggest factor that affects what us guys do in the lounge room is SWMBO (she who must be obayed) She does not want to juggle remotes, does not want to know about configuring things

thats the point of Apple TV simple, easy remote, easy to use. It caters to a market and that market is huge and far bigger compared to those who want fully blown media computers in their lounge...

Who wants to carrty a laptop about just to watch yout TV shows etc.

a456

Apr 20, 2007, 08:15 AM

I work for a major medical IT company in the region, Windows-based. All the higher ups now use MacBooks for mobile videoconferencing, and I'd seen the front lobby 50" plasma displaying 3D photo slideshows in HD, looked pretty good...just today I saw the cabinet open, and lo and behold, it was being run by an Apple TV.

I was rather shocked to see one made it into the corporate offices. I guess i'm wearing off on them :D

Interesting stuff, I guess there are a good number corporate uses here. Employees, especially in small media based companies can save their pictures, film or whatever to a public folder and then you can have a boardroom meeting where multiple people can have quick and easy access to presentation material without setting up separate laptops or bringing CDs etc., and no need for even a cheap PC with projector, just an Apple TV and a TV. Maybe this is potentially a bigger market than the home one - an Apple TV in every boardroom.

iMouseHD

Apr 20, 2007, 08:21 AM

IMO the :apple: tv is just like the ipod video.

It is great for music and photo viewing and the video is there but not ideal in the execution.

For 299 I can plunk the box into a living room system that will allow me to listen to my music library, share photos with friends and family and have the novelty of watching videos if I choose to, all thru a very slick interface and ease of use via remote.

For me, I would not want to use a mac mini or a lap top to do music and photos due to cost and not needing the other functions of running an OS on our living room system.

I understand the frustration on the video side of things but understanding where the :apple: tv is right now, I would not have bought if for the video aspect alone, but I love the idea of it as a general no frills, ease of use, media hub.

I think the folks who shop at Target for devices such as an :apple: tv will get that.

Avatar74

Apr 20, 2007, 08:31 AM

I have yet to see an apple store display. I highly doubt that apple would demo a video that is of "poor quality". Maybe you just have way too high of standards.

No, he's on the money. The video they use in the in-store demos, not including the looped "commercial" on the boxes but the actual video that you can navigate to as you test it out... is atrocious... almost worse than 320x240.

Also, the Apple Store employees don't know what they're selling... I've been listening anonymously to sales pitches they give to other customers, and their lack of knowledge of the AppleTV and video/audio in general makes them no more useful to the sale than a Target or Best Buy employee.

Management is at fault for not training them adequately.

papadopolis1024

Apr 20, 2007, 08:43 AM

True, but then again, the advice you get at Comp USA is not all that much better....

In our comp usa store we have fully trained apple tech ppl and we have and apple rep right there! who is also the rep for tri state area!

Vorst

Apr 20, 2007, 08:56 AM

- If you never experienced the Apple TV yourself, you can't feel the need for it. I personally was very reluctant to buy this thing for the following reason:
1) film quality from the iTune is not DVD quality.(tried it, before I bought ATV)
2) couldn't believe that you could stream video correctly via g-type wireless network

After I bought it this is my experience:
1) Finally my all family can see my 1000's of fotos from my PC via a slideshow on the TV
2)or listen to my complete Music libary with a touch of button on my apple remote. During the music session you have a screensaver that shows very nicely all my pictures in small animated way. It really rocks.
3) I also managed to download TV shows in highdef format and stream them to my ATV without a hick-up via the g-netwerk. Just amazing. In my country HDef is not available yet.
4) If my son want to show his pictures or music from his laptop, you change the source on the ATV and magically get that information wireless from his laptop on the TV or our HiFi system in a seconds.
5)ATV box is so small that you hardly notice it.

This thing works so nice, it give the magic that I had when I had my first experience with my Mobile telephone many years ago. I'm so impressed I bought myself a new 50" flatscreen TV, to replace my 16 year old sony CRT TV (which I never felt replacing before till it broke).

-converting a DVD via my Mac/PC to ATV is giving be the same DVD quality as my DVD-player.
-If iTune could upgrade there video quality, I see this device replacing my DVD player for ever.

glennyboiwpg

Apr 20, 2007, 09:41 AM

FriarTuck

Apr 20, 2007, 09:42 AM

RollTide

Apr 20, 2007, 10:00 AM

No, the Apple store demo unit's media looks craptastic. Grainy, pixalated... Not exactly a good way to entice customers. The :apple:TV that was streaming content from a near by computer looked great, however.

I recently went to the Birmingham Al. store Grand Opening, and I was so suprised by the crap video. But as you said the streaming looks great.

Porchland

Apr 20, 2007, 10:00 AM

"Target will reportedly mimic Apple Stores with a full demonstration unit connected to a widescreen HDTV."

Yes, but will they mimic Apple Stores with the utter crap quality video media being used for the Apple Store demo units?

I hope not.

I think we're going to see HD content in the iTS store before the end of this year. Maybe when the new TV season starts in September but hopefully sooner.

HD is a given. I think the killer app is going to be direct purchase of content through :apple:tv over your wireless network -- without iTunes and without a computer.

rezatayebi

Apr 20, 2007, 10:04 AM

I`m sorry to say this apple TV is not that good. as a matter of fact it`s very expensive for what it does.
I have a xbox 360. it`s the same price but it does so much more. I can play awsome games , I can watch dvds...

APPLE MUSY FOCUS ON MAC

jamiejamie

Apr 20, 2007, 10:05 AM

Making Apple as mainstream as possible is a great idea for the company. Let's hope Apple doesn't lose focus on producing quality products as their success continues to grow. :)

aricher

Apr 20, 2007, 10:05 AM

why not just take the DVD out of the iMac and put it in your DVD player!!!!

Some of us actually like to reduce the clutter in our lives. By ripping all my CDs I was able to clear 2000+ CDs off the shelves in my living room. By ripping all my DVDs I'll be able to clear off several more shelves. Other benefits to this are faster, easier access to all content and preservation of the media - if you have ever let children handle DVDs you'll know what I mean. That said, I don't own an Apple TV yet, waiting until Rev. B or C for that. In the mean time I'm slowly ripping all my DVDs.

To paraphrase an old adage: a cluttered home equals a cluttered mind.

egsaxy

Apr 20, 2007, 10:08 AM

I think appleTV is a great product but ITS ONLY HALF THE STORY! if you REALLY want this thing to take off, you NEED the ITMS to be able to offer awesome content!

I think that's the right question to ask. But why would tv studios sell show on iTunes if people can only watch them on tiny little ipod screens-- the novelty factor is there, but not an incentive to spend 2 bucks. Perhaps this was apple's way of going see now people have a reason to buy your content. Why should hollywood (and their international counterparts) spend time and money on digitizing their wares if there isn't a way for people to view/access it? But if there isn't anything to buy why should consumers try this media paradigm shift? I think apple did the right thing by saying -- here's why this content matters (you can watch it on big screen computer monitors and in early 2007 you can do it on tvs too) but you can get that content now. It creates buzz, and people thinking and analyzing what and how they do tv. As we see more movies, and tv shows added to iTunes the more willing people will be to get an Apple tv.

I personally buy into the mac mini approach with front row, but I understand why the apple tv is a simpler choice. When I get a flat pannel tv in January or February, we'll see which option is better.

Telp

Apr 20, 2007, 10:10 AM

Its great all the people that are now selling apple products. Just goes to show you that Apple is finally coming out and hitting it big. ! :apple: :D

orbital

Apr 20, 2007, 10:35 AM

I have one and most mac people i tell about it, say "whats that?" I already have a DVR i don't need one. I have cable why would I want apple TV.

Which means, apple needs to step up its consumer awareness on this product.

That and only people with HDtvs would really be interested in it.

Maccus Aurelius

Apr 20, 2007, 10:50 AM

I went up to the Fifth Avenue store when the :apple: TV arrived. I was floored by the piss poor video resolution. It really did look like a youtube clip. The interface was smooth and the streaming was awesome, but none of this matters when the videos available look like utter crap. However, on my smaller flatscreen television, the 720x302 resolution movies I own will look fantastic, and with almost zero artifacts of compression. I know this because my iPod presents them beautifully already. Depite the woefully decrepit presentation in the store, I know full well that I myself would have no problem with the videos I currently rip, which is pretty much the majority of my library anyway.

But for what Apple is shooting for, HD is now a necessity. They won't last long with these blocky low resolution videos on TV's that basically show how compressed it really is.

Abstract

Apr 20, 2007, 10:57 AM

That and only people with HDtvs would really be interested in it.

Or only nerds, although regular folks have TVs too.

I know I'm not being as analytical as you lot, but like the iPod, which seemed ridiculous to me at first, the general population will eventually catch up with the technology. If customers continue with their DVDs and never rip them, and the iTMS never releases higher quality videos, then yes, :apple: TV will be a failure. However, as more people record TV to their computers, and as more people store movies on their computer harddrives, the :apple: TV will start to make more and more sense.

You could have said the same thing about the general population about their music listening habits, but people adopt new technology eventually. Apple is gambling that the general population is going to adopt this technology in this way. They're essentially taking a risk, hoping that people's habits will evolve in the direction that Apple envisions. If they don't, and they evolve in another direction because of alternatives ("I like my TiVo just fine, thank you") or because of a future unreleased product that people seem to like more than using their computer for everything media-related, then Apple will fail.

aricher

Apr 20, 2007, 10:57 AM

mac-er

Apr 20, 2007, 10:57 AM

As for the Target deal... well, I can't stand Target stores. I try to avoid them at all costs. When I walk in I feel like I'm stepping into the red-xenon-light decontamination room on the movie Andromeda Strain :D Target needs to re-think their interior design.

It's much better than the nasty, noisy warehouse feel of a Wal-Mart. At least most Targets keep the product full and straightened on the shelf. Wal-Mart shelves look like they just threw the crap on the shelf.

I wish Target would bring back Mac software...they had a small selection, but it was on the most convenient places to buy the most popular selections.

uNext

Apr 20, 2007, 11:03 AM

I can vouch for the whole mac mini is a better solution then the apple tv.

As somebody pointed out -a person that spent thousand of dollars on their home theater setup will not slouch at an additional 400 to get it done right.

I am pretty sure this product will grow and expand but as of right now
there is really no need for it.

MackyMoto

Apr 20, 2007, 11:09 AM

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Whether or not Apple TV will enjoy a large consumer adoption remains to be seen.
If Apple really wants AppleTV to take off they NEED to give it DVR capability AND they should tie it in with .Mac which would add some sorely need value to a .Mac membership. Apple could provide the programming data through .Mac as part of the standard membership package. AppleTV as it currently exists just isn't compelling enough for me. And I say that as an Apple fanatic.

twinn233

Apr 20, 2007, 11:10 AM

I wish you were right. Frankly, I couldn't believe what I was seeing either. The video demos were bad. Really bad. Not quite YouTube bad, but they looked closer to YouTube than they did to DVD. Honestly.

If you read any of the forums just after the AppleTV was released, you would have seen others report the same thing, from stores across the country (I had hoped it was just an issue at my local store).

I'm not sure what went wrong, as owners of AppleTVs later confirmed that video really did look better than what was shown at the Apple Stores. So why the demos were (are?) so bad is a mystery that remains unexplained. But seeing these things in action gave me a "no way I'm buying one of these if this is what the video looks like" reaction. And I typically have a hard time finding fault in Apple products.

Someone should have been fired for the junk those demo units were churning out for all the world to see.

Hold on, Hold on. I was at the Apple Store a few weeks ago and they had 4 Apple TVs on display. Not one of them looked bad. I really don't know what you're talking about. They were playing Heros and some other shows available on the iTunes Store and I was floored by the quality. It looked HD to me. I didn't notice anything wrong with the demo units. In fact I went into the store not wanting an Apple TV and walked out longing for one. But I don't have a widescreen HDTV so I can't get one... oh well.

Really though the Apple TV is very nice, and the video looks great.

gkarris

Apr 20, 2007, 11:16 AM

I've been to 3 Apple stores in the Chicago area. The resolution of The Incredibles on the Apple TVs was AWFUL. I overheard groups of people at each store commenting on how pixilated it looked. Apple better get some better content on the demo units PRONTO.

I was at the OBC store and BG looked pretty bad..

Now I was somewhere else where the person ripped (can I talk about this?) "Casino Royale" at :apple:TV's max specs. It was mastered in HD and the transfer was stunning on a 40" LCD...

Clive At Five

Apr 20, 2007, 11:18 AM

AppleTV is aimed at the tech savvy community, its ready for mass consumption when it won't need a computer in the network and get its content direct from the internet.

What?! :apple:tv is not aimed at tech-savvy users! Tech-savvy users creat solutions without dropping an extra $300 for an intermediate box... or they go all out and buy a MacMini, elgato and use the DarWiin-Remote hack for an on-the-couch complete solution. Guess which camp I'm in?

:apple:tv is basically trying to be the iPod for your TV and is aiming to give the same ease-of-use thereof.

-Clive

Maccus Aurelius

Apr 20, 2007, 11:20 AM

I'm going to have to go with the mac mini, simply because it's just far more versatile than the ATV. While I want the ATV to be a successful venture for Apple, the Mini provides way more. If I come home with a rental DVD, I can just pop it in the mini and *maybe* rip the DVD and encode it later ;)

aristobrat

Apr 20, 2007, 11:20 AM

AppleTV is aimed at the tech savvy community, its ready for mass consumption when it won't need a computer in the network and get its content direct from the internet.
Have you seen the AppleTV ads? Apple's pitching the AppleTV as a way to watch the content you purchased from the iTunes Store on your TV. IMO, the AppleTV is a consumer accessory (just like the iPod) aimed squarely at the non-tech savvy community that have no clue how to do this otherwise.

Yeah, I don't think some people are even getting what the Apple TV commercial says. Most of my friends don't use computers the way we (the people on this board) do. They are just starting to import CDs into iTunes. I doubt they know iTunes even sells movies.
For what it's worth, as of 6 months ago, over 45 MILLION TV episodes had been downloaded from the iTunes Store. Your friends may not know that they can purchase video content from the iTS, but it doesn't appear to be a secret.

Is Apple forgetting why they started opening Apple Retail Stores in the first place?
There's still a huge part of the country not covered by Apple retail stores.
http://www.ifoapplestore.com/stores/blackout_zone.html

Clive At Five

Apr 20, 2007, 11:22 AM

Hold on, Hold on. I was at the Apple Store a few weeks ago and they had 4 Apple TVs on display. Not one of them looked bad. I really don't know what you're talking about. They were playing Heros and some other shows available on the iTunes Store and I was floored by the quality. It looked HD to me. I didn't notice anything wrong with the demo units. In fact I went into the store not wanting an Apple TV and walked out longing for one. But I don't have a widescreen HDTV so I can't get one... oh well.

Really though the Apple TV is very nice, and the video looks great.

I watched "The Incredibiles" in-store and it was terrible... like someone said, much closer to YouTube than to DVD. Maybe I'll have to give it another shot if it's as good as you say... Not that I'll buy one unless someone teaches it to run elgato. Then we'll talk.

-Clive

Rychiar

Apr 20, 2007, 11:25 AM

i think this things gonna tank. I'm a diehard apple but and have 0 interest in even seein one of these things. Its not true HD and it doesnt support DIVX so why buy it? If ya want a movie its still better to go buy it on disc and get surround sound, etc. and if ya want TV get cable or the dvd box set or download it for free. No brainer, :apple: TV is useless

aristobrat

Apr 20, 2007, 11:33 AM

I watched "The Incredibiles" in-store and it was terrible...

They were playing Heros and some other shows available on the iTunes Store and I was floored by the quality. It looked HD to me.
Could it be that the copy of "The Incredibles" (an older movie) was from before the iTunes Store re-encoded its videos at a higher resolution, whereas the "Heroes" episode was encoded in the current higher resolution that the iTS sells stuff in?

Whatever the reason, it's a shame that Apple hasn't addressed this issue. Some of their demo video on the AppleTV looks awful.

I downloaded "The Prestige" DVD from the iTS and it looked a gazillion times better on my 50" plasma than "The Incredibles" did on the smaller screen at the Apple Store.

Garbage in, Garbage out. :eek:

On a side note, the number of newbies in this thread (especially 1 post newbies) is pretty interesting. I guess AppleTV really gets some folks riled up. ;)

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 11:36 AM

sales of Apple TVs at Best Buys have been slow.

Not surprised. Who wants to buy a $299 overpriced iTunes salesman? Might as well just get a cheaper DVI to HDMI cable and hook up your Mac to your TV, a lot better than an over priced paper weight manufactured to increase the sales of iTunes sub-DVD quality movies... :rolleyes:

Of my circle of die hard Apple friends (me being a die hard Apple user for years), no one I know has given any props to Jobs and his team for this device. If anything, it's been a topic avoided for discussion...

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 11:43 AM

No, he's on the money. The video they use in the in-store demos, not including the looped "commercial" on the boxes but the actual video that you can navigate to as you test it out... is atrocious... almost worse than 320x240.

Also, the Apple Store employees don't know what they're selling... I've been listening anonymously to sales pitches they give to other customers, and their lack of knowledge of the AppleTV and video/audio in general makes them no more useful to the sale than a Target or Best Buy employee.

Management is at fault for not training them adequately.

Agreed. Jobs has been rushing too many new products out at once. Due to this, Apple Store's have not been properly trained in technical specifics for the products they are selling, especially the :apple:TV. Next will be the iPhone, a product that is literally being rushed out for a June deadline to please stock owners and to save face. All this has delayed the release of a long awaited new OS system and is beginning to show a break down in Apple management and focus. The die hard Apple users are beginning to wonder if the new Apple, Inc. shift away from OS's to media products will compromise the quality and standards that have become trademarks for Apple for years... :(

gkarris

Apr 20, 2007, 11:44 AM

Not surprised. Who wants to buy a $299 overpriced iTunes salesman? Might as well just get a cheaper DVI to HDMI cable and hook up your Mac to your TV, a lot better than an over priced paper weight manufactured to increase the sales of iTunes sub-DVD quality movies... :rolleyes:

Of my circle of die hard Apple friends (me being a die hard Apple user for years), no one I know has given any props to Jobs and his team for this device. If anything, it's been a topic avoided for discussion...

Ouch! Don't have HDMI on my TV...

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 11:46 AM

In our comp usa store we have fully trained apple tech ppl and we have and apple rep right there! who is also the rep for tri state area!

Yeah, but try getting someone in a CompUSA store to acknowledge your presence and give you some assistance. The last time I ventured into one in upstate NY I waited a half hour with another customer waiting for an Apple "specialist" to assist us in the tiny Apple department tucked in the way back right hand corner, and that was after dragging three seperate sales associates away from either their personal conversations or other customers just to see if any one wasn't too busy to actually do their jobs. Just re-affirmed my belief that the Apple stores are the best way to go...

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 11:56 AM

I think we're going to see HD content in the iTS store before the end of this year. Maybe when the new TV season starts in September but hopefully sooner.

HD is a given. I think the killer app is going to be direct purchase of content through :apple:tv over your wireless network -- without iTunes and without a computer.

How? HD DVD's/Movies are at LEAST 20 gig's, how in the world will iTunes Music Stores carry the load of thousands if not possibly millions to come users downloading HD Movies? At what bandwidth? Unless Apple starts utilizing bit-torrent engines for downloading the huge amounts of data required for a HD movie, it will either never happen or customers will be waiting days for one movie to be completed.

Also, as there isn't currently a way to burn downloaded movies to DVD's, after a few months or years of purchasing Movies/DVD's from iTunes where are they all going to fit? Most people don't have the room or money for huge amounts of data (especially High Definition content that is currently 30-50 gigs a DVD), and since you can't burn the movie to a DVD for future use what is the point? Music is one thing, as MP3's are typically and will typically be the same size, many can be purchased at high quantities and easily stored and burned on CD's, etc. Movie and HD Movie content on the other hand, not so much...

I'd rather hit Netflix or Blockbuster video, at least the movies come the next day and memberships for unlimited rentals are normally less than $20/month, a LOT cheaper than iTunes...

dex22

Apr 20, 2007, 11:57 AM

I'll buy an :apple:tv when I can take my DVD collection and rip it into a smaller file size whilst maintaining quality. I don't want 1080P with 10K files or anything silly like that. I want to be able to drop the extra features on disc and JUST get the movie into my machine as H.264 - so the movie would be ~1.5GB

There may be unofficial ways to do that, but I want iTunes to handle DVDs the way they handle CDs now.

THEN I'll buy an :apple:tv

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 12:01 PM

Next will be the iPhone, a product that is literally being rushed out for a June deadline to please stock owners and to save face. All this has delayed the release of a long awaited new OS system and is beginning to show a break down in Apple management and focus.

Oh good grief, more tales of woe because of the iPhone? Please. First, this thing has been in development for years - it's hardly "being rushed out." And despite what anyone believes, this expansion of the Mac OS (yes, the iPhone is part of the Mac platform) is critical to Apple's continued success. You might remember another much-miligned-at-release product that just happened to save Apple's bacon? The iPod? Yeah, that one.

As for the Leopard delay, Tiger is still better than what Microsoft is churning out (and still meets all my needs just fine), and Apple hardware is far and away the most appealing stuff out there, so why all the doom and gloom?

Apple is right to expand their focus beyond the Mac. After all, the more people buy iPods and iPhones and AppleTVs, the more people end up buying Macs, and everything continues to build on itself.

All this "Apple is abandoning the Mac!" paranoia is as bad as the "Intel will kill the Mac platform!" and "We need OS 9, OS X will be a disaster!" nonsense was.

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 12:08 PM

Oh good grief, more tales of woe because of the iPhone? Please. First, this thing has been in development for years - it's hardly "being rushed out." And despite what anyone believes, this expansion of the Mac OS (yes, the iPhone is part of the Mac platform) is critical to Apple's continued success. You might remember another much-miligned-at-release product that just happened to save Apple's bacon? The iPod? Yeah, that one.

As for the Leopard delay, Tiger is still better than what Microsoft is churning out (and still meets all my needs just fine), and Apple hardware is far and away the most appealing stuff out there, so why all the doom and gloom?

Apple is right to expand their focus beyond the Mac. After all, the more people buy iPods and iPhones and AppleTVs, the more people end up buying Macs, and everything continues to build on itself.

All this "Apple is abandoning the Mac!" paranoia is as bad as the "Intel will kill the Mac platform!" and "We need OS 9, OS X will be a disaster!" nonsense was.

Whoa, easy boy, eeeaaasyyy. I was not "giving grief" on "tales of woe". It's fact, whether you like it or not. The iPhone IS being rushed out as Apple, INC has admitted more resources have been needed to address last minute quality issues and such with the device, and that only a LIMITED amount will be released at the end of June.

Apple's recent focus over the years away from OS and computer technology and into multimedia isn't a figment of any one's imagination. Certainly the iPod has put Apple back on the map with consumers and the mainstream public, introducing them into the world of Apple quality and OS stability. No one is dissing the Mac OS system, especially compared to Windows. However, there has been an ever increasing shift AWAY from OS development and more focus placed on peripherial devices such as the iPod, :apple:TV and iPhone.

Don't take things so personally and relax, no one is dissing Apple. If no one here cared about the company and their personal take and experiences as Apple users no one would be commenting, complimenting or criticizing. Criticism is essential to a company's progress, without such there would be very little growth comparitively.

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 12:10 PM

How? HD DVD's/Movies are at LEAST 20 gig's, how in the world will iTunes Music Stores carry the load of thousands if not possibly millions to come users downloading HD Movies?

Huh??? Apparently someone hasn't heard of H.264.

A 45-minute TV episode from iTunes at 640x480 is around 500 megs. A movie at 720p would be 3x the total pixels + 2-3x the running time. So that's 4.5 gigs max. Hardly 20 gigs. And going all the way up to 1080p is another 2.25 the amount of pixels of 720p. So that's 10 gigs. But I don't think we'll see 1080p through iTunes anytime soon. I'd be content right now just to get 720p.

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 12:12 PM

Huh??? Apparently someone hasn't heard of H.264.

A 45-minute TV episode from iTunes at 640x480 is around 500 megs. A movie at 720p would be 3x the total pixels + 2-3x the running time. So that's 4.5 gigs max. Hardly 20 gigs. And going all the way up to 1080p is another 2.25 the amount of pixels of 720p. So that's 10 gigs. But I don't think we'll see 1080p through iTunes anytime soon. I'd be content right now just to get 720p.

lol at 640x480? For an iPod sure, but certainly not for my 50" 1080P Pioneer. I was addressing HIGH DEFINTION MOVIES, NOT REGULAR DVD's. Please re-read my posts for attempting to disparage my comments. That's 2 for 2 now...

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 12:22 PM

The iPhone IS being rushed out as Apple, INC has admitted more resources have been needed to address last minute quality issues and such with the device, and that only a LIMITED amount will be released at the end of June.

I don't buy Apple's silly excuse that the iPhone has caused Leopard's delay. I think Leopard, and related iApps, simply weren't ready to go.

Apple's recent focus over the years away from OS and computer technology and into multimedia isn't a figment of any one's imagination.

No one said it was. They are obviously pushing in these directions to expand their business. But their OS and other software is still much better than the competition, and their computer hardware is the best stuff out there, so it's hard to argue that their attention to consumer electronics has hurt their Mac innovation. I firmly believe that Apple can walk and chew gum at the same time. ;) And as an AAPL shareholder (albeit a small amount), I say "Keep on truckin', Apple!"

Don't take things so personally and relax, no one is dissing Apple.

No personal hurt here. I'm just dismayed at all the recent wailings about the "fall of Apple" because of their push into consumer electronics. We need to look at the big picture. Apple will always make Macs, and Macs will always be the best computers out there. Microsoft will never "get it," and Apple could sell a billion iPods and iPhones and not change that fact.

tribulation

Apr 20, 2007, 12:22 PM

I don't GET this product or WHY they introduced it, my best guess is that its to please investors beause it smocks of synergy? But I didn't think Apple was the type of company to make a product for the sake of making one...

I can see that this product would be useful when hard disks are big enough on computers to store a typical number of movies in a person's library and when iTunes offers something more rare (HD movies). Right now it's just a burden to store movies on a computer (too much space) and it's not worth it (better quality on DVD).

LOL. Totally with you there. I said it before the launch and I'll say it again, yes after trying one --- POINTLESS. With massive hacks, it's starting to look half decent. But without Apple shipping it with email, web browsing, big hard drive so that it can do something worthwhile on its own WITHOUT my computer and only talk to my computer when I want it to (not much most likely), and for heaven's sake, a DVR or subscription TV iTunes.

Without those rather simple things, then no buy for me and most others I assume. And yes they are relatively simple things that should just come for free with OSX. The DVR and/or iTunes TV subscription service is the only "bonus" feature that would take some work, but isn't that what I'm paying them for? In the end, it makes them even more money assuming they go with a subscription route.

They should've either waited until it was an actual version 1.0 product, or tossed the idea altogether because it's turning out to be what I see as one of the most defunct and crippled Apple products ever released.

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 12:26 PM

lol at 640x480? For an iPod sure, but certainly not for my 50" 1080P Pioneer. I was addressing HIGH DEFINTION MOVIES, NOT REGULAR DVD's. Please re-read my posts for attempting to disparage my comments. That's 2 for 2 now...

Dude, I explicitly pointed out that full 1080p resolution using H.264 is NOT the "at LEAST 20 gigs" as you stated. It's half that. Perhaps you should read my full post before responding? I was hardly singing the praises of 640x480 video. Please. You're, um, 0-2 now...

And whether you believe it or not, online distribution of video media (yes, even 1080p media) is the future. It's just not clear how far away that future is. Apple knows it. Microsoft knows it. Apparently you don't know it.

scu

Apr 20, 2007, 12:28 PM

Or only nerds, although regular folks have TVs too.

I know I'm not being as analytical as you lot, but like the iPod, which seemed ridiculous to me at first, the general population will eventually catch up with the technology. If customers continue with their DVDs and never rip them, and the iTMS never releases higher quality videos, then yes, :apple: TV will be a failure. However, as more people record TV to their computers, and as more people store movies on their computer harddrives, the :apple: TV will start to make more and more sense.

You could have said the same thing about the general population about their music listening habits, but people adopt new technology eventually. Apple is gambling that the general population is going to adopt this technology in this way. They're essentially taking a risk, hoping that people's habits will evolve in the direction that Apple envisions. If they don't, and they evolve in another direction because of alternatives ("I like my TiVo just fine, thank you") or because of a future unreleased product that people seem to like more than using their computer for everything media-related, then Apple will fail.

I agree with you. I still recall when many were skeptical about the general public paying $400 for an iPod when it first came out. Heck you could get an mp3 player for a fraction of that cost. Five years later we have sold over 100 million iPods as prices came down and they offered more features. Apple created a new craze and habit forming music experience. I think they will do the same with the AppleTV. It will take time and it is a gamble. But this time they have the ability to see it succeed because they have over 100 stores to market the product and a much bigger user base to get the ball rolling. In 2 years this product may become as popular as the iPod and the future iPhone.

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 12:31 PM

Dude, I explicitly pointed out that full 1080p resolution using H.264 is NOT the "at LEAST 20 gigs" as you stated. It's half that.

Then that must be some serious crack you're smoking Whitney. No way does a HD 1080 movie fit in around 10 gigs or less. Chris Angel can't even pull that one off, and I have done enough work in video editing/production to know that

A 45-minute TV episode from iTunes at 640x480 is around 500 megs

Perhaps you should read my full post before responding? I was hardly singing the praises of 640x480 video.

You weren't??? Hmmm, your comments suggest otherwise... maybe you should re-read them...

And whether you believe it or not, online distribution of video media (yes, even 1080p media) is the future. It's just not clear how far away that future is.

And how, pray tell, will millions of ITMS customers be able to download huge amounts of data so quickly, especially 1080P content??? Not with the current technology. I purchased the Airport N station, but the N standard won't even be officially adopted until late 2008...

Apparently you don't know it.

Hmmm, that's an awfully harsh statement to make as you don't know a thing about me (but apparently chose to single out my comments out of the dozens of negative comments posted in this thread about :apple:TV - seems someone has a hard on for me lol). Sure, I know online media content in motion pictures are inevitably the future of broadcasting, but Apple seems to have rushed the yard line with this product. It would have made more sense to wait until the technology was available for mass production, i.e. better DVD quality movies, ripping, storage space and wireless bandwidth...

Object-X

Apr 20, 2007, 12:33 PM

AppleTV is aimed at the tech savvy community, its ready for mass consumption when it won't need a computer in the network and get its content direct from the internet.

And therin lies the true ability of this device, though they are not really using it yet. Streaming media to it directly from the internet is the next evolution of AppleTV. Right now all they are using it for is movie trailers and tv show previews. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that they could work with a company like Yahoo! and tie into their video streams (which use Quicktime btw).

Yahoo! for example has stream clips from CNN, 60 Minutes, BBC, ect. If you launch them in your browser they will start playing commercials an all. Now, just reformat them for use with AppleTV and a quick software update and presto, instant TV news on AppleTV (with commercials).

I think this will be one way AppleTV will evolve and it won't require a Mac or even a computer, just a way to update the AppleTV.

Once AppleTV hits a certain critical mass, how long will it be that the major broadcast companies, including cable, are asking Apple for access for their programming? They get paid the usual way with commercials, and AppleTV is a glorified antenna or receiver box.

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 12:51 PM

You weren't??? Hmmm, your comments suggest otherwise... maybe you should re-read them...

You're trying to use what they call a "straw man." I simply stated the data rate for a 640x480 video as a baseline for calculating the size of a 720p or 1080p video using H.264. I'm sorry you can't see that.

And how, pray tell, will millions of ITMS customers be able to download huge amounts of data so quickly, especially 1080P content??? Not with the current technology.

Perhaps you missed when I clearly said "But I don't think we'll see 1080p through iTunes anytime soon."

Debate (and even outright disagreement) is healthy, but geeze, try to put some rational thought into it.

k2k koos

Apr 20, 2007, 12:51 PM

AppleTV is aimed at the tech savvy community, its ready for mass consumption when it won't need a computer in the network and get its content direct from the internet.

I would love an add-on with bigger HD, DVD player that can rip and mediacard reader.

That is still a pretty big community, how many people now have an iPod, there are at least as many PC's out there (iPod's need a PC or Mac to get their content), so there IS a market, but the market needs to be shown , plain and simple, how it works.

It could still be done hip, cool, and clear , for a commercial, but I agree that the current commercial only makes sense to those that already know how it works.

marktesssing

Apr 20, 2007, 12:56 PM

marktesssing

Apr 20, 2007, 01:02 PM

Sure, I know online media content in motion pictures are inevitably the future of broadcasting, but Apple seems to have rushed the yard line with this product. It would have made more sense to wait until the technology was available for mass production, i.e. better DVD quality movies, ripping, storage space and wireless bandwidth...

but, what would be the driving force behind introducing these techs if their is nothing to consume it. Its the old chicken and the egg, which came first? I always thought sony created a product and then creates the market later, apple is doing the same.

aristobrat

Apr 20, 2007, 01:06 PM

And how, pray tell, will millions of ITMS customers be able to download huge amounts of data so quickly, especially 1080P content??? Not with the current technology.
If Microsoft's letting XBox owners download 720p movies and TV shows onto their XBox's 20GB drive without any problems, I'm sure Apple can figure out a way to deal with the bandwidth issues.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/06/microsofts-xbox-live-video-hdtv-and-hd-movie-downloads-for-you/

* You can only download content to your Xbox 360 drive -- not to an external drive.
* Downloads are in VC-1 (aka WMVHD) at 720p, 6.8Mbps video with 5.1 surround.
* An average HD movie download should be between 4-5GB, and a two hour SD movie would be 1.6GB.
* An average 1 hour (44 min) HDTV download should be about 2.2GB, and an average 1/2 hour (22 min) HDTV download should be about 1GB. A 1 hour SDTV download should be about 600MB, and a 1/2 hour SDTV download should be about 300MB.

ariza910

Apr 20, 2007, 01:13 PM

How? HD DVD's/Movies are at LEAST 20 gig's, how in the world will iTunes Music Stores carry the load of thousands if not possibly millions to come users downloading HD Movies? At what bandwidth? Unless Apple starts utilizing bit-torrent engines for downloading the huge amounts of data required for a HD movie, it will either never happen or customers will be waiting days for one movie to be completed.

Also, as there isn't currently a way to burn downloaded movies to DVD's, after a few months or years of purchasing Movies/DVD's from iTunes where are they all going to fit? Most people don't have the room or money for huge amounts of data (especially High Definition content that is currently 30-50 gigs a DVD),

CJD2112, I think your confused as to how much space an HD movie really takes up. Yes new HD-DVDs and BluRay disks are 25-50GB but that doesnt mean the movie takes up all of that space. When you take out all of the extras, foreign languages, commentary audio tracks and fancy HD chapter selection menus your left with just the HD movie at around 5-10GB. And as LagunaSol was trying to tell you with H.264 Apple may be able to further compress the file size without a loss in quality.

Your assumption regarding bandwith is also incorrect, anyone with broadband access would be able to download HD movies without a problem. As a matter of fact the XBOX 360 already lets you buy and download HD movies.

Oh and the Apple TV can already stream HD content over 802.11N and the more common 802.11G so I dont see a problem there

shawnce

Apr 20, 2007, 01:15 PM

oh and you have to give up surround sound to do it, since the TV outputs stereo only. ...not true...

Myth 1: Apple TV can't play 5.1 audio! (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/147048D8-D8B7-45E7-9A97-3CD5B4C2B75A.html)

rtcruz1

Apr 20, 2007, 01:25 PM

I went to 3 separate Best Buy's and was told in two that "they don't carry Apple stuff". The other one the guy said he'd go ask someone if they have a TV Apple, even after I corrected him twice and he never came back. I ended up finding them there, in a dark corner next to Tivo Series 2 boxes. No display, no nothing, just 3 AppleTVs sitting there with not so much as a price tag.

Yeah, its no wonder they havn't been flying off the shelves.

Yup.. I agree.. I went to a Best Buy.. the salesperson said first that it was an "online" only kind of product and they didn't even carry it in the store... I found it on a non-descript shelf (not hooked up to a t.v... and with no price), and had to walk him over to it..

I think the Apple TV has some room to improve, but it's still a great product, and does what it's supposed to do, very well... But I don't expect strong sales from Best Buy either if the Apple TV is just relegated to a tiny shelf with no live demonstration. I don't know who negotiated the deal with Best Buy, but they should have agreed to some more substantial floor space..

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 01:33 PM

But I don't expect strong sales from Best Buy either if the Apple TV is just relegated to a tiny shelf with no live demonstration.

Based on the horribly-flawed demos shown at the Apple Stores, perhaps the "no live demonstration" is to Apple's benefit. ;)

glennyboiwpg

Apr 20, 2007, 02:19 PM

I watched "The Incredibiles" in-store and it was terrible... like someone said, much closer to YouTube than to DVD. Maybe I'll have to give it another shot if it's as good as you say... Not that I'll buy one unless someone teaches it to run elgato. Then we'll talk.

-Clive

I'm not sure why this is so terribly confusing? If you have a video file on apple tv thats set at a low resolution, the it will look like garbage. If you rip a dvd and put it on there it will look wonderful.

Its not the hardwares fault here.

If anything, its because you can't order high quality files from ITMS

Irish1978

Apr 20, 2007, 02:27 PM

Targets okay, but lets just hope that :apple:TV never goes to Wal-mart. Wal-mart has its place, but it's place isn't selling Apple products IMO!

Clive At Five

Apr 20, 2007, 02:46 PM

I'm not sure why this is so terribly confusing? If you have a video file on apple tv thats set at a low resolution, the it will look like garbage. If you rip a dvd and put it on there it will look wonderful.

Its not the hardwares fault here.

If anything, its because you can't order high quality files from ITMS

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that Apple is not going to win any customers showing :apple:tv demonstrations with crap for resolution. Most average consumers won't know that the quality is an issue with compression. I agree, though, that the iTS is the next link in the chain to be upgraded. If that's what people are downloading from the iTS, I feel sorry for them.

-Clive

blybug

Apr 20, 2007, 03:11 PM

But, i've read that when you "browse" off the song thats playing, the music stops. is that true?
I like to browse/search/look through my library for the next track while one is playing. I use playlists but thats "static". I like chosing the next track based on the playing track. From across the room.
You can do this with a certain arbitrary limitation, not really sure why the AppleTV is implemented this way, maybe a reason or just a software oversight. The music does stop when you back out all the way to the "main menu" but you can jump around from playlist to playlist, artist to artist, or album to album without stopping the music. But if you enter the menu structure through "Artists," for example, and choose a song, then while listening decide you want to hear that whole album, you do have to back out to the main menu to enter the "Albums" submenu and the music will stop. So as long as you can find your next track within the same submenu "hierarchy" you're OK.

Seems they could have done it like the iPod where a "Now Playing" menu appears at the bottom of the main screen and you are dumped back into it if you stay inactive at the main menu for too long while music is playing.

wavelayer

Apr 20, 2007, 03:32 PM

swingerofbirch

Apr 20, 2007, 03:38 PM

You definitely SHOULDN'T get one.

Oh I'll GET one. Just so I can COMPLAIN some more. ;)

rtcruz1

Apr 20, 2007, 03:46 PM

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that Apple is not going to win any customers showing :apple:tv demonstrations with crap for resolution. Most average consumers won't know that the quality is an issue with compression. I agree, though, that the iTS is the next link in the chain to be upgraded. If that's what people are downloading from the iTS, I feel sorry for them.

-Clive

I agree.. the video demos at the Apple stores aren't very good..and they need to figure out a better demo that really shows the hi-quality video support capabilities of the hardware.

donlphi

Apr 20, 2007, 04:10 PM

I don't think it is necessary to sell the APPLE TV in Target to make money, but I'm sure it will be more visible and people that wouldn't normally be able to visit an apple store will be able to test it out before buying it.

I don't think anybody goes into TARGET and expects one of those high school kids working in the store to give them all the answers they are looking for. I think Apple is making the right move. Target sells much more complex machines than the APPLE TV and they sell.

If I don't live near an Apple Store (which I live by 3 or 4, lucky me), Target may be the best option. Impulse buyers BREED in Target. Seeing the Apple packaging and holding the device in your hand is a pretty good influence. Seeing it online isn't always enough. You can't see how big it is (REALLY), and it seems elite.

I have family that lives in Kankakee, IL. There isn't an Apple Store anywhere near them (2 hour drive to Chicago Michigan Ave. Store). There are Targets and Walmarts all over the place though. I think this is a great way to start becoming a household name like DELL or COMPAQ. Believe it or not, when you start travelling to small cities or large towns, Apple is pretty much known for their iPOD and playing Oregon Trail at school YEARS ago (before they switched to PC). Seeing it and touching it are two completely different experiences.

I have been holding off visiting an Apple store because I know I'll end up purchasing an apple TV once I get it in my hands.

Cybergypsy

Apr 20, 2007, 04:12 PM

Circut City has them already, was in there 2 weeks ago...

wmmk

Apr 20, 2007, 05:01 PM

Is Target really on target do be doing this?:p

Sorry, but I had to.;)

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 05:02 PM

I'm sorry you can't see that.

I can read very well thank you

Debate (and even outright disagreement) is healthy, but geeze, try to put some rational thought into it.

Sorry, I have an issue with someone who takes debate to a personal level, which you did. Rational debate is excellent, however it seems to be lacking from your end. Thanks for the fun. :rolleyes:

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 05:06 PM

If Microsoft's letting XBox owners download 720p movies and TV shows onto their XBox's 20GB drive without any problems, I'm sure Apple can figure out a way to deal with the bandwidth issues.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/11/06/microsofts-xbox-live-video-hdtv-and-hd-movie-downloads-for-you/

As a matter of fact the XBOX 360 already lets you buy and download HD movies.

Um, as someone who has seen the XBOX 360's ability to "download" HD movies, it is PAINFULLY slow. A friend back in NYC upgraded to that system and checked it out, took two days. That wasn't uncommon, as I've heard (and read) issues with bandwidth around that device taking forever.

My comments weren't in regards to the possibility of it happening in the future, just not presently. Sure, the technology MAY expedite the process, but in the end is it worth buying into it now? Most likely not...

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 05:07 PM

Maccus Aurelius

Apr 20, 2007, 05:38 PM

I wouldn't mind videos ripped into full resolution from regular DVD's. They have good quality for most sets out there, and occupy anywhere between 4-8GB

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 05:39 PM

Ok, first off I know exactly how much space DVD's and movies take, I've worked in production and my friend Mark Tarbox is a producer for Dreakworks. Most of you are putting waaaay to little emphasis on extra's on DVD's. To make a statement that the 30-50 gig's on a Blu-ray disc is mostly extra's and that the movie itself may be extracted so it is only 5-10 gig's is LUDICROUS. If that were the case, then an HD movie could fit onto a double-layer DVD with no issues (aside from the coding and such required to play the media in an HD player, which it wouldn't). To assume you can use Apple's encoding to compact the movie without losing any further quality is erroneous in HD content. Hell, the trailers that Apple's sight plays in 1080p are alone 200+ meg's for a few minutes.

I realize when I point out that you're wrong that you take it as a personal attack, but sorry, you're wrong. Again. And no amount of production experience or friends "in the biz" are making you right.

Here's some simple math. Let's take your point about 1080p movie trailers on Apple's site. For example, the 1080p trailer for "Let's Go To Prison" is 2.5 minutes long and 191 MB. A two-hour movie is exactly 48 times that (48 x 2.5 = 120). So take 191 MB x 48 = under 10 GB. Do the math. Looks like a two-hour movie in H.264 CAN be under 10 GB, despite your enthusiastic arguments to the contrary. "LUDICROUS?" Apparently not.

Perhaps you're just in the wrong business? Nothing personal...

aristobrat

Apr 20, 2007, 05:42 PM

My comments weren't in regards to the possibility of it happening in the future, just not presently. Sure, the technology MAY expedite the process, but in the end is it worth buying into it now? Most likely not...
I think a lot of folks are expecting to see 720p content from the iTS this year.

Bandwidth is a commodity. If your point that Apple's only issue with delivering HD content is that they'll need a lot of bandwidth to do it successfully, I think that'd be probably the EASIEST technological problem that Apple's ever had to deal with. Remember the rumors from way back that Leopard would have built-in torrenting? Perhaps now that rumor has met its business function.

Either way, as a self-proclaimed Apple die-hard, I think you're giving up way too easily on Apple regarding bandwidth being an issue that stops them from doing 720p content. Now that they're doing more and more consumer devices, can you be a nay-sayer on the ones you don't like and still be consider a die-hard Apple fan? Maybe you'll have to start qualifying that as "die-hard Apple Computer fan" to keep everything straight? :)

ariza910

Apr 20, 2007, 05:42 PM

Ok, first off I know exactly how much space DVD's and movies take, I've worked in production and my friend Mark Tarbox is a producer for Dreakworks. Most of you are putting waaaay to little emphasis on extra's on DVD's. To make a statement that the 30-50 gig's on a Blu-ray disc is mostly extra's and that the movie itself may be extracted so it is only 5-10 gig's is LUDICROUS. If that were the case, then an HD movie could fit onto a double-layer DVD with no issues (aside from the coding and such required to play the media in an HD player, which it wouldn't). To assume you can use Apple's encoding to compact the movie without losing any further quality is erroneous in HD content. Hell, the trailers that Apple's sight plays in 1080p are alone 200+ meg's for a few minutes.

Further, if you were to digitize your entire DVD collection, even at 5-10 gig's a movie, that is A LOT of physical hard drive space. Most people do not have the funds or ability to have numerous hard drives attached to their systems just to stream them wirelessly through iTunes.

Sure, the future

not exactly ludicrous - 720P HD movies on the XBOX 360 are between 4-5GB per Microsofts own specs. I don't understand why this is so hard to believe.

HD movies do fit on a regular dual layer DVD - but like you mentioned DVD players can't play them back. You could however save movies downloaded from iTunes on to a DVD as a data disk so it doesnt take up space on your Hard drive.

I do agree with you however that most people will not want to store all of these movies on their computers hard drive and that having to buy additional hard drives just to store downloaded movies doesn't make much sense to regular users.

There's also the fact that with these type of downloads we miss out on all the extras that come with physical media like DVDs, HD-DVDs etc I dont know if I am ready to give all that up. I kinda like watching behind the scenes extras from Tarantino movies or selecting a different language or subtitle if I have family over.

aristobrat

Apr 20, 2007, 05:46 PM

Is Target really on target do be doing this?
I think that Target is kinda crazy to resell stuff that goes with the iTunes Store.

Didn't Steve make a Target reference in his keynote, implying they were the next company for the iTunes Store to surpass?

And I thought Target freaked out about the iTunes Store selling DVDs, too?

Now they're going to sell the AppleTV, a device that may encourage people to buy even more content from one of their competitors? Oye. :)

wmmk

Apr 20, 2007, 05:58 PM

I think that Target is kinda crazy to resell stuff that goes with the iTunes Store.

Didn't Steve make a Target reference in his keynote, implying they were the next company for the iTunes Store to surpass?

And I thought Target freaked out about the iTunes Store selling DVDs, too?

Now they're going to sell the AppleTV, a device that may encourage people to buy even more content from one of their competitors? Oye. :)

Good point! That, of course, is exactly what I had in mind when I asked if Target was on target.;)

SiliconAddict

Apr 20, 2007, 06:24 PM

Sweet. I have a friend who works there who gets a 20% discount coupon every so often. Add that 10% off he normally gets....yumm. :D

Wie Gehts

Apr 20, 2007, 06:29 PM

Apples next product is iHump™. A lifesize doll that you connect to the internet that'll stream the appropriate sex talk, moaning and groaning in real time, in response to various sensors strategically located in the body.

ReanimationLP

Apr 20, 2007, 07:31 PM

I went to 3 separate Best Buy's and was told in two that "they don't carry Apple stuff". The other one the guy said he'd go ask someone if they have a TV Apple, even after I corrected him twice and he never came back. I ended up finding them there, in a dark corner next to Tivo Series 2 boxes. No display, no nothing, just 3 AppleTVs sitting there with not so much as a price tag.

Yeah, its no wonder they havn't been flying off the shelves.

I'll be perfectly honest with you, most of the employees at Best Buy are morons. :/ I would know too, since I work there and deal with a lot of them.

Trust me, you werent missing the price tag that much.

Heres what it says basically in a nutshell :

Apple TV Model - APPLETV

299.99

Thats it. Doesnt mention the lack of cables, anything.

Also, the reason they aren't selling well is because they dont have one on display, set up or anything so customers could take it for a test drive.

Plus then most of the employees know jack-crap because there is no training modules for it. :/

winmacguy

Apr 20, 2007, 07:33 PM

Just heard an ad on the radio (zmonline.com) for Apple TV from Dicksmith.co.nz for Apple TV.:apple:

Rocketman

Apr 20, 2007, 07:34 PM

It says "carry" not stock, display, sell, advertise, customer service, discuss, or be aware of.

If they were serious, at minimum, they would "end-cap" the product for a period of time 1.5-2x as long as it is being advertised on TV.

The good news is every BB lost sale goes to apple.com or an Apple Store since internet access is widespread.

You would think they would be smart enough to "grasp sales" from their OWN customers already in the STORE on a product that will only be sold once.

Rocketman

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 07:38 PM

not exactly ludicrous - 720P HD movies on the XBOX 360 are between 4-5GB per Microsofts own specs. I don't understand why this is so hard to believe.

Hmmmm, 720P eh. Need to check them out, but it took so long to download from Microsoft we gave up...

Thanks for the rest of your nice message, you made some good points. Who knows, maybe in time hard drive capacity will become so outrageously inexpensive and large 5-10 gig's for a movie will be comparable to the roughly 5 meg's per MP3 most digital music users have on their machines...

Thanks again, it's nice when users on here can have respectful discussions :).

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 07:41 PM

I realize when I point out that you're wrong that you take it as a personal attack, but sorry, you're wrong. Again. And no amount of production experience or friends "in the biz" are making you right.

Here's some simple math. Let's take your point about 1080p movie trailers on Apple's site. For example, the 1080p trailer for "Let's Go To Prison" is 2.5 minutes long and 191 MB. A two-hour movie is exactly 48 times that (48 x 2.5 = 120). So take 191 MB x 48 = under 10 GB. Do the math. Looks like a two-hour movie in H.264 CAN be under 10 GB, despite your enthusiastic arguments to the contrary. "LUDICROUS?" Apparently not.

Perhaps you're just in the wrong business? Nothing personal...

:rolleyes: You're exhausting and rude. I'm not wasting my time by addressing you any further. Good luck with all that math, you seem to have the desire to prove how right you are compared to everyone else. Napoleon complex much? Hmmmmm :eek:

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 07:47 PM

Remember the rumors from way back that Leopard would have built-in torrenting? Perhaps now that rumor has met its business function.

Yeah, I do remember that, and I have strongly believed that would be the best approach in handling such huge amounts of data. Hope they do it...

Either way, as a self-proclaimed Apple die-hard, I think you're giving up way too easily on Apple regarding bandwidth being an issue that stops them from doing 720p content. Now that they're doing more and more consumer devices, can you be a nay-sayer on the ones you don't like and still be consider a die-hard Apple fan? Maybe you'll have to start qualifying that as "die-hard Apple Computer fan" to keep everything straight? :)

lol true true. In all honesty, the concept of the :apple:TV is great, I have no actual issues with it. I only made a few comments/concerns that one user in particular decided on slamming me for (admist all the other user comments that echo roughly the same concerns). Some people just like to troll message boards I suppose. In the end, as was the first iPod, the :apple:TV is a first generation product that success will hopefully lead to better and improved online entertainment content. You have to start somewhere right? I just wish the people that read some of the comments wouldn't jump all over everyone for no reason, as if they just insulted their mother or something. People take things personally and then attack people in such a disrespectful manner. It is amazing how much I've learned studying social psych just what online anonymity brings out in people, once there isn't a face to face connection sometimes true colors come out and they can be downright ugly... :(

russellb

Apr 20, 2007, 08:22 PM

Telp

Apr 20, 2007, 08:33 PM

I think thats the point

Are Media Computers, mac mini's hooked to your TV as better quality, better control, more formats available solution YES

But does that mean they will appeal to the broad market , consumers, boardrooms etc NO

The whole purpose of Apple TV is to appeal to the broader market.

Is Apple's new 8 core machine a better computer than an Imac YES , will it appeal to the broader bigger market NO Imacs will (or macbooks etc)

So I am not disputing which is better and does more , I am saying Apple TV is a more elagent , simple solution that will appeal to the masses.

You make a good point, in the end, you have your own preferences and if you can think of a way that suites you better go for it, but the majority of the people out there aren't like that, they see the :apple:TV and say wow thats cool they dont think wow thats cool but i can just hook up my computer to my TV with a connector cable for $5 bucks or whatever.

EagerDragon

Apr 20, 2007, 08:43 PM

IMHO Apple should demo the units using 720p content, even if it is just shorts from upcoming movies. The low quality movies do not look the best on those sweet monitors. May even give a bad impression to a potential customer.

About target .... If they are going to show it and learn the product they will sell it. If they can't even remember where it is in the store and or you can not get help, it will sit there and collect dust.

EagerDragon

Apr 20, 2007, 08:48 PM

True, but then again, the advice you get at Comp USA is not all that much better....

If we have questions and need some advice .... what about the general public? They are in bigger trouble.

I vote bad idea to have people with no clue sell Apple products.

LagunaSol

Apr 20, 2007, 09:04 PM

I just wish the people that read some of the comments wouldn't jump all over everyone for no reason, as if they just insulted their mother or something. People take things personally and then attack people in such a disrespectful manner.

Honestly, get over yourself. I never attacked you personally. Did I call you a moron? Did I insult your mother? No. I simply pointed out the errors of your arguments, you inexplicably turned around and attacked my explanation with a straw man position, then you got defensive and started taking it personally, dropping a few names and throwing out some smug references about your experience and professional knowledge (despite which, you were still wrong). Whatever. Your points about HD and H.264 compression were erroneous and I clearly pointed out why. If you can't deal with that, I'm sorry. I'm moving on.

ibook30

Apr 20, 2007, 09:11 PM

If we have questions and need some advice .... what about the general public? They are in bigger trouble.

I vote bad idea to have people with no clue sell Apple products.

You got a good point here- the wider the audience (and less focused) the more likely to inspire ill feelings - especailly if the buyers aren't familiar with the conventions of the system. It's a guarantee that some folks will be disgruntled for one reason or another-

On the otehr hand, I think it's likely that a lot of people will get turned on by the ease of use and simplicity of the interface. And for those folks who find it a good experience, they are more likely to try other Apple products. I think the most likely experience of a new user is gonna be good. Therefore - I'm hoping this will be a good distribution deal.

EagerDragon

Apr 20, 2007, 09:19 PM

Could it be that the copy of "The Incredibles" (an older movie) was from before the iTunes Store re-encoded its videos at a higher resolution, whereas the "Heroes" episode was encoded in the current higher resolution that the iTS sells stuff in?

Whatever the reason, it's a shame that Apple hasn't addressed this issue. Some of their demo video on the AppleTV looks awful.

I downloaded "The Prestige" DVD from the iTS and it looked a gazillion times better on my 50" plasma than "The Incredibles" did on the smaller screen at the Apple Store.

Garbage in, Garbage out. :eek:

On a side note, the number of newbies in this thread (especially 1 post newbies) is pretty interesting. I guess AppleTV really gets some folks riled up. ;)

That is the part I don't understand, why Apple picked crappy quality videos to demo their new hit product? and to make it worst, show it in a large display where the low image quality is more apparent

EagerDragon

Apr 20, 2007, 09:41 PM

I'm not sure why this is so terribly confusing? If you have a video file on apple tv thats set at a low resolution, the it will look like garbage. If you rip a dvd and put it on there it will look wonderful.

Its not the hardwares fault here.

If anything, its because you can't order high quality files from ITMS

I don't believe most people here fault the hardware, most fault the crapy demos that Apple selected to show off the device. Yes if you have good quality video the Apple TV shows it well.

EagerDragon

Apr 20, 2007, 09:48 PM

I think that Target is kinda crazy to resell stuff that goes with the iTunes Store.

Didn't Steve make a Target reference in his keynote, implying they were the next company for the iTunes Store to surpass?

And I thought Target freaked out about the iTunes Store selling DVDs, too?

Now they're going to sell the AppleTV, a device that may encourage people to buy even more content from one of their competitors? Oye. :)

LOL, Target is hopeing that people buy their DVD's rip them and play them on the Apple TV devices they sell.

EagerDragon

Apr 20, 2007, 09:59 PM

Target should move the Apple TV to the DVD section of the store and sell it with a copy of Handbrake bundled, LOL. May sell more units than apple that way.

Wie Gehts

Apr 20, 2007, 10:21 PM

Hi. I raise llamas on a 347 acre ranch in wyoming. I was thinking of getting an
apple tv set. Will it run wmv's?

CJD2112

Apr 20, 2007, 10:24 PM

Honestly, get over yourself.

Grow up. :rolleyes: As a PhD student at Columbia in social psych, I have a few colleagues you might benefit from seeing. Seriously, just say the word...

Now back to the thread that you hijacked for whatever reasons. This was about the :apple:TV, not you after all...

twoodcc

Apr 20, 2007, 11:40 PM

the more stores that carry it, the better, i guess

Cult Follower

Apr 21, 2007, 12:22 AM

I guess Apples philosophy is, 'more exposure, more sales' it knida makes sense, but not really...Target?

SiliconAddict

Apr 21, 2007, 02:46 AM

Whenever I go into my local Target, the display XBox 360 is either turned off or stuck on a set-up screen. I expect the same for the :apple: TV.

Is Apple forgetting why they started opening Apple Retail Stores in the first place?

That's because 360's crash all the dang time. I was at a Target the other day and it had the Red Ring of Death. If the :apple: TV is reliable it shouldn't need any attention by CSR's. If the :apple: TV is worth anything you shouldn't need anyone "pushing" the product like some car salesman.

I guess Apples philosophy is, 'more exposure, more sales' it knida makes sense, but not really...Target?

Better then Wally world. :rolleyes:

wonderkid

Apr 21, 2007, 03:55 AM

I have yet to see an apple store display. I highly doubt that apple would demo a video that is of "poor quality". Maybe you just have way too high of standards.

I went into the Apple Store Regents Street in London yesterday. There were 5 or 6 Apple TV's connected to Sony widescreen TVs. a) Not one person was playing with them, everyone was using the Macbooks & iMacs or iPods. b) I played with the Apple TV and although it's got a tidy pretty interface that itself is of high quality, the video demos were of appalling quality - obviously scaled up. As a final comment, and this coming from a gadget fan and Apple lover, I don't find Apple TV that compelling. I believe that until it does a lot more (including acting as a TV receiver / Sky + / TiVO type box), Apple are going to have a lot of work ahead of them educating the consumer to the Apple TV's value proposition. At this point, it is not even a 'TV' as the consumer knows the world. It is basically an Apple streaming media solution - with some local storage. Roll on Version 2.0!

LagunaSol

Apr 21, 2007, 12:01 PM

Grow up. :rolleyes: As a PhD student at Columbia in social psych, I have a few colleagues you might benefit from seeing. Seriously, just say the word...

Physician, heal thyself.

Rychiar

Apr 21, 2007, 12:12 PM

i download 720p AVI torrents of 24 episodes and they have 5.1 surround and they are only 1 gig so one would figure 1080 could be 2 gigs or less if compressed right. I wish apple would embrace AVI more

Irish1978

Apr 21, 2007, 05:05 PM

As a PhD student at Columbia in social psych,

Gag...sorry, I got some throw up in my mouth. Who gives a ***** what you do or who you know. As a graduate of Southwest Texas State I think you are full of yourself.:D

ctakim

Apr 21, 2007, 05:52 PM

I have yet to see an apple store display. I highly doubt that apple would demo a video that is of "poor quality". Maybe you just have way too high of standards.

Check before you speak. I was surprised by how bad the in store demos were. My apple TV at home is great, but if I only saw the store demo, I'd be concerned.

PlaceofDis

Apr 21, 2007, 05:58 PM

interesting if true. shows Apple is certainly moving into Consumer Electronics a bit more strongly. and Target carrying it means it'll get a good deal more exposure, which is also a good thing for it.

Eideard

Apr 21, 2007, 06:27 PM

I emailed this "factoid" to Appleinsider and several others - about 7 weeks ago. I guess they just got round to reading their mail.

When I was getting ready to order my own AppleTV [got it from PowerMax], I checked the Amazon site back at the beginning of March when they 1st listed pre-orders. When I clicked the links it switched me to the Target Store at Amazon.

Glad to see everyone's up-to-date.

btw - I posted it at Dvorak Uncensored, March 7th - http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10208

CJD2112

Apr 21, 2007, 07:48 PM

Gag...sorry, I got some throw up in my mouth. Who gives a ***** what you do or who you know. As a graduate of Southwest Texas State I think you are full of yourself.:D

It was a sarcastic comment directed towards some pr!ck who felt it necessary to flame me on here. Course it doesn't matter where I go to school, just making a point to shut someone up...

wilderkun

Apr 22, 2007, 03:28 PM

I ordered my apple tv the day after macworld, and have had it plugged into my 5.1 system eversince. I was very surprised by how great the sound was. Movies, TV shows and music sounds better than just my sound system running dvds. People seem obsessed about saying how much it sucks, but they have obviously never heard it on a good system. The video is also great, as good as dvd and broadcast. And I have a HD system.

SheriffParker

Apr 22, 2007, 03:55 PM

To make a statement that the 30-50 gig's on a Blu-ray disc is mostly extra's and that the movie itself may be extracted so it is only 5-10 gig's is LUDICROUS.

...Hell, the trailers that Apple's sight plays in 1080p are alone 200+ meg's for a few minutes.

...

For example, the 1080p trailer for "Let's Go To Prison" is 2.5 minutes long and 191 MB. A two-hour movie is exactly 48 times that (48 x 2.5 = 120). So take 191 MB x 48 = under 10 GB. Do the math. Looks like a two-hour movie in H.264 CAN be under 10 GB,

oooo, CJD2112 got owned!!!

CJD2112

Apr 22, 2007, 09:57 PM

...

oooo, CJD2112 got owned!!!

Yeah, by a geek who has too much time on his hands lol :rolleyes: ... Seems the maturity level on here is lacking a bit...

astral

Apr 23, 2007, 03:28 PM

Check before you speak. I was surprised by how bad the in store demos were. My apple TV at home is great, but if I only saw the store demo, I'd be concerned.

Seriously, even the newer stuff (such as the most recent episode of South Park) looks pretty bad. It's downright stupid that they have an old 320x240 Conan clip on there. It also doesn't help that the remote has to (obviously) be tethered down, so you're forced to stand one foot away from the tv.

jessep28

Apr 23, 2007, 03:42 PM

If I were to have a choice of a mass market retailers to put Apple products in, it would be Target.

Wal-Mart would be I guess the logical choice from an exposure perspective since almost everyone in America shops there at least once a year. Only problem is if memory serves is that Wally World and Apple don't get along that well. Wal-Mart is all about economies of scale and getting things down to the lowest common denominator. Apple is about quality and brand image. The two models don't fit well.

Target is kind of a hybrid. You still get the mass market and retail footprint of a large retailer but Target is focused a little more on higher quality items.