PowerMac G5: World's Fastest Desktop Computer

[MacRumors]

It almost feels like a dream...

The G5

Rumors of the G5 likely pre-date the existance of MacRumors.com. The earliest reference found in our archive was August 2000 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2000/08/20000820234329.shtml) (site began in Feb, 2000).

Today, Apple announced the PowerMac G5 (http://www.apple.com/powermac/) -- dubbed the "world's fastest personal computer" as well as the first 64-bit personal computer.

The leaked specs (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030619233623.shtml) were indeed accurate and Apple is offering the following configurations:

$1,999: Single 1.6GHz G5, 800MHz Bus, SuperDrive, 3 PCI, 80GB S-ATA HD
$2,399: Single 1.8GHz G5, 900MHz Bus, SuperDrive, 3 PCI-X, 160GB S-ATA HD
$2,999: Dual 2.0GHz G5, 1GHz Bus, SuperDrive, 3 PCI-X, 160GB S-ATA HD

The revamped machine contains all new hardware and subsystems... providing dramatic performance improvements over current systems. Systems will not be available until August 2003, according to Jobs.
--

Support MacRumors: Purchase a G5 System from MacWarehouse (http://www.macrumors.com/cgi-bin/adcycle1.17/adclick.cgi?gid=8&cid=72&mid=310&id=156) or via the MacRumors Link Shop (http://shop.macrumors.com/)

[zuggerat]

simply put..amazing

[Java]

Oh my *$#!

8 gigs?!? And Steve says you can transfer a whole DVD in one second.

My jaw is on the floor. Wow Wow Wow Wow!:eek:

[HasanDaddy]

I'm EXCITED!!!

So how long until G5 PowerBooks??

[Dont Hurt Me]

The top 2 machines are amazing, the base unit is another matter. sad to say that was the market i was in, was is the key word. the top machine is awesome.

[mymacsmokespot]

What's the word on the G6? Any specs? Pics?

[reflex]

Now here's the best part: you can leave the superdrive out (in case you don't need it).

[MacsRgr8]

One word: WOW.

This HAS been worth waiting for.

These are gr8 times for Apple! Way, way beyong 10% marketshare!

[GeneR]

I can't believe it. But the RAM is really, really smart. 8GB.

[evoluzione]

Originally posted by Java
8 gigs?!? And Steve says you can transfer a whole DVD in one second.


not quite, ain't no way you're gonna get a dvd drive to read that quick, and no hard drive can read/write that quick either. it's just the memory, it was just to give an indication of how fast the memory etc is. :)

[ddtlm]

Arn:

That title should read "world's fastest desktop computer" or something. Clearly the G5 is not the fastest computer of them all. :) Not even the dual 2.0 model.

Anyway, what was that shipping date again? Apple doesn't seem to post it clearly on their site.

[idkew]

yeah- i'm wondering about the g6.

this g5 really doesn't impress me very much.

only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus. only 8gb ram? sheesh. apple really isn't working too hard anymore.

[rhpenguin]

Just peachy :D

After saving for ages to get my iBook its time to start saving for the G5. This looks like one KILLER machine. Good job Apple!

[ddtlm]

Almost forgot to say that I was happy to see Apple claim 3ghz 12 months from now.

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
One word: WOW.

This HAS been worth waiting for.

These are gr8 times for Apple! Way, way beyong 10% marketshare!

That would require Apple to sell something like 100 million PowerMacs. Much as I would like to see it...

[andrewh]

Initially, I was disappointed with the case design. I thought it could have been cooler looking. But, I think it will grow on us. I like the way it looks very industrial -- clean front, no logos, etc. Mesh is awesome. The more I look at it the more I like it. I wonder if it was Jonathan Ives that designed it again.

Anyway I suppose it's what's inside that counts...

[pyrotoaster]

It looks fantastic. Apple really didn't disappoint us with this. The machine is uberpowerful and actually reasonably priced (shocking!).

That said, it looks like August isn't an incredibly realistic release month. At the Apple Store Woodfield they read a memo from Cupertino stating the G5s would arrive some time in September.

It's still an amazing machine, though...

[zuggerat]

just for everyones info somethings about the 15" powerbook on the apple site have disappeared...such as the 3D views of the product...it's comin soon

[PowerBook User]

I am VERY, VERY impressed by the specs on this machine! A 1 GHz bus, 8 GB RAM, PCI-X, serial ATA hard drives, SuperDrive standard - WOW! I'm very happy!:)

[Freg3000]

The only dissapointment is the case. :( But I am sure it will grow on me

[eric_n_dfw]

At the Willow Bend store, after the keynote was done, they made quick mention of some kind of card you get if you buy a G5 at a retail store. It's called a Power Mac G5 Pro Card or something, looked like an aluminum credit card on the screen.

Apparently, it entitles you to return your G5 for any reason within 30 days. A "satisfaction guarantee" I guess. It also gives a bunch of other perks like a one time 10% discount on software, free upgrade installs, etc... (can't remember what all they said)

[mustang_dvs]

Okay, I posted this in the Keynote thread, but as no one has thus far said anything to this effect and I feel it is an important point for discussion, I am posting it in this thread, as well.

I really could care less about the looks of the G5 (though I question the ergonomics of getting rid of the mobo hinge) -- what bothers me is the apparently cramped confines of the interior, which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage (http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html).

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.

I just don't understand why Apple decided to take a significant step backwards, especially since PowerMacs have been designed to easily handle more than 2 hard drives since the revision B Blue & White's.

[zarathustra]

Originally posted by idkew
only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus. only 8gb ram?

Are you sure about the 60%? ;) Isn't that a 600% increase?

[patmcfar8]

I can honestly say that I was impressed by everything.

Panther looks sweet. iSight is bad ass! Safari 1 seems solid. And of course the G5!

Beyond my thoughts of reality!
Is it safe to say that Apple owns the personal computer speed crown again?

This ought to put it into perspective for all of the complainers that will be bitchin' about the price: The dual 2ghz G5, $3,000, beat the pants off the Dual 3.09ghz Xeon, $4,000! I love it!

I completely stoked. And it was really strange to hear them talk about 3ghz in 12 months! Must be a great relationship between Apple and IBM right now.

The only thing missing was ANY mention of the 15" PB. I'm guessing that it's just a matter of time until they announce the G5 15" PB. Then, simply put, I will buy it.

Kudos to Apple!

[rjstanford]

Let's see. What doesn't this have? The Airport antenna is external, although not a big deal (and sticks out about as far as you'd have to have the machine off the wall for the cables anyway). Same with the Bluetooth one (no picture that I can see, but I assume it matches Airport). Hmm. I didn't see any apple branded two button mice, but that's not a big deal on a desktop. I honestly can't think of much that was rumored that isn't here.

As for what it does have that was unexpected -- USB 2.0 is nice, after all this time. The noise level is amazing, if true (and I assume that it is). The case internals are incredibly clean, almost always a sign of good design (and I love the hard drive mounts). Adding memory in pairs is a little annoying, but even if you keep the two 256mb chips you can still add 6 more of your own from crucial cheaply. This is one happy desktop.

Now, for expandability -- I wonder if you can upgrade the processors without trashing the rest of the system? This hasn't historically been an issue for Apple because, well, G4 evolution was very slow. Even if you can't, I'm still impressed, just beginning to wonder.

All in all? Very cool. Now I just have to decide if I want to get a desktop after about 4 years of being purely a laptop guy. Honestly, the new iDisk sync may make it an easier choice for me to stick with a cute little 12" G4 for road use and get the big boy for the office.

Which brings up my final gripe. Steve mentioned, specifically, the IBM roadmap for their chips. Why, oh why, can't he see that an Apple roadmap would be useful too? Ah, well. Can't have it all, I guess.

-Richard

[Fredo Viola]

It was indeed Ives who designed it. You can download the movie in which he hypes the new work. And, I think it looks great! Really understated. They needed to get away from the delicious candy quality of the g4s.

I'm bummed we have to wait until August, though. I want and need to buy a new computer so badly, but want to see how these perform in the real world before slapping down the cash.

How about how these bastards are generally cheaper! Very very smart! Thank you, Apple!

[daveL]

Originally posted by idkew
yeah- i'm wondering about the g6.

this g5 really doesn't impress me very much.

only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus. only 8gb ram? sheesh. apple really isn't working too hard anymore.

Try a 600% increase in bus speed.

I noticed that there's no L3 cache used. With the bandwidth they have now, they don't need it. I'd guess future revs of the 970 CPU may have larger on-chip L2 cache.

[beatle888]

this is wonderful. better than i ever expected. this machine will bring so much power in-house. i am very satisfied.

[holy MAC!]

GREAT FR----KEN JOB, MR. JOBS

now... why is there only 1 optical drive??????? i mean... im amazed at all the other stuff and all...


ok... so im really really digging.......

and they now use the new keyboard and mouse....... so they cut the "pro" mouse?????? talk about ways of cutting expense.....

lolol we now officially can say that macs are more powerful than PeeSees......

-Kz

[Scott Laird]

Okay, it's cool, but there are a couple weird things.

1. Why do they have two *different* G5 motherboards? The 1.6 only has 4 DIMM sockets and only has PCI slots, while the 1.8 and 2.0 have 8 sockets and PCI-X. Given the slim price difference between the 1.6 and the 1.8, it doesn't make sense to me.

2. Why don't they support 2 GB DIMMs? They've been available (for a big premium) for around a year.

3. Why only 2 drives? That's a step back from the 4 in the MDD case. And 1 optical drive is kinda limiting. At least there's FW-800 and a couple spare PCI slots.

Still, I'll probably buy a 1.8 or 2.0 once they start shipping.


Scott

[Veldek]

I like the case, i like the G5, it's unbelievable how cool these systems are. I already configured my system in the store and will be purchasing soon, as I saved my money for this moment! :D

[jeremy.king]

Does the front of this case have "pop outs" if you want to add a second drive? Is it me, or does anyone else think you are limited to optical drive (ie Superdrive)?

I am going to have to find better pics to find the answer here.

[trebblekicked]

what a day for mac geeks.

i just priced my probable G5. a little over 3700.00. i'm going to wait until rev. b, maybe even first speed bumps (i'm moving to chicago in sept, want to be easy on the credit card for a while), but this machine is fantastic. teh case is great, the specs are great, what else can i say!?

*gushing*

[macnews]

I do have to say the 2ghz model is impressive, although would have liked to see specs on the lower end models. August/Sept time frame would be a little wait - and dissappointing as it means we will probably not be able to see the G5 in the powerbooks for a while.

I was also a little sad to hear that panther would not ship until "later this year." What the #$%#% does that mean? Aug? Oct? Dec??? I also would imagine that means if I buy a 2Ghz G5 NOW (delivered Aug/Sept) I will get screwed if Panther isn't released by then. Escpecially will feel hosed if Panther is released one month after I get the G5 - which Murphy's law will dictate that happening.

[Wonder Boy]

2 things-

1. are they 970's or not

2. what the hell is a g6? didnt we wait long enough for the g5?

[Tyler Durden]

When I look at the design for the new desktop G5 I think of a highly tuned, super robust muscle car with a serious super charger in those fans. I love it more than anything previously released. I say down with bubble design themes. I want my desktop to look serious and industrial yet sleek and beautiful. I can't wait to rock FCP 4 on that thing..

[ddtlm]

rjstanford:

I wonder if you can upgrade the processors without trashing the rest of the system? This hasn't historically been an issue for Apple because, well, G4 evolution was very slow.
I would say that you probably cannot upgrade the CPU because the FSB (so far) runs at 1/2 speed of the CPU and so a faster CPU might require a newer motherboard and chipset. Perhaps 970's will be available some day with 1/3 FSB to core clock ratios... who knows.

patmcfar8:

This ought to put it into perspective for all of the complainers that will be bitchin' about the price: The dual 2ghz G5, $3,000, beat the pants off the Dual 3.09ghz Xeon, $4,000!
Well lets just say that Dell wasn't invited to select the tests that would be run. The whole truth will not come out till people can test the machines themselves.

mustang_dvs:

Yeah drive exandability is dissapointing, but perhaps firewire will make up for it.

[analogkid]

seems like the price/performance ratio favors the high end model by a large margin. I wish the price of the low was dropped a little.

[Doctor Q]

The era of the "megahertz myth" is clearly over. But now we have the same thing as the "gigahertz myth". We still have an uphill battle to convince casual shoppers that a dual 2GHz G5 really is faster than a 3GHz Pentium.

Funny aside: During the keynote, the live news report at macnn.com (http://www.macnn.com/)had a tiny off-by-a-factor-of-1024 typo: It said (bold is mine) Models start at 1.6MHz ($2000, GF FX5200, 256MB of RAM), 1.8GHz (double memory, double disk, $2399) and dual 2.0GHz ($2999, Radeon 9600 Pro).

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Adding memory in pairs is a little annoying, but even if you keep the two 256mb chips you can still add 6 more of your own from crucial cheaply.
-Richard

You have to add memory in pairs??

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by analogkid
seems like the price/performance ratio favors the high end model by a large margin. I wish the price of the low was dropped a little.

It will be... in 12 months :D

[ejb190]

I was looking at the speed comparisons posted on the Apple's G5 page. They are showing how the Dual 2 GHz is faster than the current top of the line single processor Intel and ADM offerings.

I always cringe when I see things like this. Part of the story is always left behind. But alas, that's marketing!

But I wonder what happens to those results when you use a dual Intel or ADM chip or a single G5.

"First gather your facts, then contort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

[Java]

Originally posted by evoluzione
not quite, ain't no way you're gonna get a dvd drive to read that quick, and no hard drive can read/write that quick either. it's just the memory, it was just to give an indication of how fast the memory etc is. :)

Oh, I know, but it just sounds cool. Thanks :p

[thies]

as I thought, way to pricey to be able to pull over significant marketshare through switchers given that they target the average user with those ads and noone would want to go for a G4 or even *shudder* G3 now.

[jbh001]

Originally posted by idkew
yeah- i'm wondering about the g6.

this g5 really doesn't impress me very much.

only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus.

Okay, I'm not good at math, but
166MHz * 1.60 = 265.6 MHz.
166MHz * 6.02 = 999.3 MHz.

I think the means more than a 600% increase over 166MHz.

What I want to know is: If the G5 doesn't ship till August, then what is in all those boxes that said don't open until 23 June 2003? ...another box that says don't open till after the August Bank Holiday?

Also, someone said the new G5 looks too much like an oversized electric shaver... and now I can't see it as anything else.

[mymemory]

I may get it as long I can arrange all that stuff inside my dual G4 500 enclosure, I mean, the case is a compensation of the technology inside, I can really tell they ran out of budged.

Any way, it is good to be on the top again, I just can't see the day of using it with Final Cut Pro or After Effects.

[5]

did steve handicap early sales of the G5 with the hint of 3 Ghz in a year?

Especially when, historically, there have been definite advantages to waiting for the second revs. . .

[avus]

Let's begin IBM worshiping, as they are the savior who listened and tailor-made the chip for us (it is ironic that IBM has a little internal use for the 970, really - how many Linux server with the 970 are they going to sell?), and, most importantly, now save us from MOTOROLA HELL - I once thought it would never end, but today I can finally see the end of it!

[Billicus]

It all came true...I'm so frickin' happy!

[jwtillema]

How come nobody is complaining about the price? $2000 for the low end is ridiculous. At a time when you can buy an Athlon XP 2000+ machine well equipped for <$600, Apple will never increase their market share with this strategy. My brother has been using my G4 for a few weeks, and loves it more and more. But his upper lip curled when he saw what he'd have to pay to get started with a mac. Apple needs to bring its prices down before their market shrinks to a level so low that developers lose interest.

Supurb hardware though. I'd love to have one if it didn't cost a month's salary after taxes.

[ddtlm]

Doctor Q:

The era of the "megahertz myth" is clearly over. But now we have the same thing as the "gigahertz myth". We still have an uphill battle to convince casual shoppers that a dual 2GHz G5 really is faster than a 3GHz Pentium.
In selected benchmarks. Also, when speaking about mhz vs ghz, the difference is 1000, not 1024. 1024 only applies to binary-based things like memory.

ejb190:

I was looking at the speed comparisons posted on the Apple's G5 page. They are showing how the Dual 2 GHz is faster than the current top of the line single processor Intel and ADM offerings.
They brought a dual 3.06ghz Xeon over to play too. :)

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
2 things-

1. are they 970's or not

2. what the hell is a g6? didnt we wait long enough for the g5?
1. Yes, it's the 970. Apple's calling it the G5 because it fits with the existing name scheme and because the specific chip (i.e. 970, 980) will change more frequently than Apple wants to change the name.

The 980 should come out some time next year. Apple doesn't want to have to call that something else. They'll just call it the Dual-Core G5, or something like that (assuming Apple even uses the 980).

2. That person was probably talking about the 980, or some other successor to the 970.

[nuckinfutz]

Okay, I'm not good at math, but
166MHz * 1.60 = 265.6 MHz.
166MHz * 6.02 = 999.3 MHz.

LOL ..that's an understatement.


Midrange is nice. High end is nice. Low End is poor.

2 Drive Bays seems fine to me. HD are so big nowadays using more than 2 drives is not a good idea internally. No need to stress the PS when you can just toss in a new drive at double the capacity.

One optical drive. Kinda sucks but DVD Burners are taking over and their decent for CD Burning as well. Might as well save the space.

Panther. Nice features. I honestly expected more but I don't think Apple has showed it's full hand.

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by Flowbee
You have to add memory in pairs?? Yep...

This should confuse the average user. :p

Along with having to take the fans out to access the memory slots.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by ejb190
I was looking at the speed comparisons posted on the Apple's G5 page. They are showing how the Dual 2 GHz is faster than the current top of the line single processor Intel and ADM offerings.

I always cringe when I see things like this. Part of the story is always left behind. But alas, that's marketing!

But I wonder what happens to those results when you use a dual Intel or ADM chip or a single G5.

"First gather your facts, then contort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain



happy to say your wrong mofo :D their comparing to a single pentium cause they suck and only make single processors....so apple took their best and reemed them....then, next they called up the DUAL (not single) Xeon and crushed that just for fun :D

ok ok, i'll stop, it was just so much fun to be able to say that....:)

[Dual 2 GHz G5]

Just ordered my dual 2 GHz. I can hardly wait until August. It probably won't ship until August 31st.

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
It looks fantastic. Apple really didn't disappoint us with this. The machine is uberpowerful and actually reasonably priced (shocking!).

That said, it looks like August isn't an incredibly realistic release month. At the Apple Store Woodfield they read a memo from Cupertino stating the G5s would arrive some time in September.

It's still an amazing machine, though...

I was there too!!! It was awesome :)
BTW, I thought that early September was the date they were expecting machines available at that store, not the date they will be shipping. I could be wrong though!

[Dont Hurt Me]

It will be nice one day when apple can compare one cpu vs another, how about a single 2 gig 970 vs a single 3.2 p4???

[adamfilip]

you can still swap out the superdrive on the 1.6 for a combo and save 200 bucks

so 1799

also if anyone noticed

the old powermac g4's have been updated aswell

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/70303/wo/TF74fSL4aAPS2r7L8X21dbyluIC/0.0.7.1.0.5.21.1.8.1.0.0.0.1.0

no more 1.4 ghz dual g4's
only
single and dual configs of 1.25 g4's
interesting also with a price drop

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by ejb190
I was looking at the speed comparisons posted on the Apple's G5 page. They are showing how the Dual 2 GHz is faster than the current top of the line single processor Intel and ADM offerings.

I always cringe when I see things like this. Part of the story is always left behind. But alas, that's marketing!

But I wonder what happens to those results when you use a dual Intel or ADM chip or a single G5.

"First gather your facts, then contort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain

Dual AMDs or Intels are rare indeed, and mostly servers or ultra high end workstations. The PowerMac G5 is a machine for a much broader market. Ergo, the dual G5 vs. single P4 (the most common iteration of the P4 by far) is a fair comparison. If Dell, for example, were to put out a line of Dimension desktops with dual processors as a regular option, and they were a significant part of the model line, then dual P4 comparos would be warranted.

[macmunch]

Looks cool and after Keynote and no PB it looks even better !!

I can imagine what we will see in New York Keynote next month ...

All Power Books move to G5 ? Range 1,2 - 1,4 GHz ?

I think yes

PB 15" -- nearly a year no update !!!
PB 12 & 17" over 6 Months ! so need a update or speed bump !

But I think we wil lsee all this model Speed Bumped !

And on MWSF04 we will see biggest SHOW ever I think PB moving to G5 updated Speed bumped G5 PM and till May next year at the latest we will see all Apple Product running on G5 IBM Processors !! Range from 1,2 --- to 3 GHz
So the have so much space in MHz to spot all products with this amazing Chip !


Looks very well the FUTURE i still cant belive !

[dethl]

I ordered mine like 45 minutes after the end of the keynote. I had to get one...I just couldn't wait....I've got college coming up....so I thought "why the hell not", and I ordered the top of the line machine. Yup, I'm going to college with a dual 2 ghz G5 :)

The cost was a bit steep for me....but I think I'll be able to handle it. ($3269.25, this was with student discount, tax, and applecare protection plan)

I wish August was here already!

[wizard]

Well some of the rumors where correct, it looks like they have a nice machine on their hands. It is a to bad though that they couldn't keep the price on the lower end under control. It is also a shame that this much CPU power is going to be throttled by a cheap graphics card at the low end. It would have been nice if the midrange was a dual processor model also. The aluminum handles do look a bit flimsy.

That being said it looks like Apple has an excellent base to grow the machine on. I do hope that the in depth hardware reviews are out before the machines are into general circulation. One thing I'd be interested in is if the 8GB ram limit is just for advertising purposes, that is are these machines expandable beyond that if new ram impelementations make it to market. But for me I think I can get by with 8GB capacity for awhile ;). In the mean time maybe I can accumulate a bit of OT to pay for one of these babies.

[starflyer 59]

So much for for boxes being at Apple stores marked with signs not to open..... Oh well, I guess August isn't too far away.... Also, the statement that they wil be 3.0 Ghz in 12 months makes me wonder if we will see more frequent updates to the PowerMac line....

Maybe they could do this:
1.8, 2.0 and dual 2.2's in January.
2.0, 2.2 and dual 2.4's in April

and so on.... that would rule. I would love to see mor frequent updates.

[mactastic]

I sure hope Apple doesn't screw people on the release date though. I would imagine there are several students/teachers/admins for schools who would really like to be able to have these for the school year.

Oh well, at least Xmas sales should be brisk, 'specially if they get one (or two) of those chips in a laptop. Imagine a 17" laptop that could compete with a high end PC desktop.... I want santa to put one of those under my tree!:D

[noel4r]

yup apple is now back on top... i wonder when they'll release a G5 imac... dont need a powermac, am just a prouser...

[Falleron]

This is great. I am so tempted to upgrade my dual ghz to a 2ghz dp machine!! I am a little worried that if I buy a machine now + then another Ghz is added within a year I will want a 3Ghz machine!!!!

[macphoria]

Now all we need is world's fastest laptop. PowerBook G5!!!!

[contempt]

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
Okay, I posted this in the Keynote thread, but as no one has thus far said anything to this effect and I feel it is an important point for discussion, I am posting it in this thread, as well.

I really could care less about the looks of the G5 (though I question the ergonomics of getting rid of the mobo hinge) -- what bothers me is the apparently cramped confines of the interior, which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage (http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html).

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.

I just don't understand why Apple decided to take a significant step backwards, especially since PowerMacs have been designed to easily handle more than 2 hard drives since the revision B Blue & White's.


This is the exact complaint I have. It's ridiculous to have all this power and not have a case designed intelligently to expand.

This case is a whole 4 inches taller than the current G4. How come we just lost an optical drive plus 2 hard drives? I don't understand it. I love the fact my current G4 has 2 optical drives. And I know some people still use zip drives. How about an option for that second drive? Or to keep the same amount of hard drives in this larger enclosures?

Also, why only 1 Firewire 400 port on the back? Jobs mentioned that the iSight only needed a firewire port. Hey, don't you think we'll have more than 1 firewire device (not counting the front port which I would hate to have something permanent plugged into)? That means we'll all have to invest in Firewire Hubs. Plain silly! Since PC's come with 8 USB 2.0 slots. If Apple would have created 8 Firewire slots, I bet more of us would be inclined to purchase more Firewire equipment.

Anyway, the more I read up on the specs, the more disappointed I'm feeling. I think I'll just wait for the Powerbook G5.

Panther did blow me away though!

[alset]

Ugliest damn machine I have seen. Guess I'm going to start hiding my Mac (something I have never done) because it goes without saying that the performance outweighs the design. Still, what were they thinking? Ventilation, of course. Could have been better, though.

Dan

[Steradian]

I have been dancing around my house...I made a cake in celebration with G5 written in white frosting...(yes this is true...yes I am that strange) I have informed my Peecee loving friends and they don't believe it...they refuse to believe it. They think that the SPEC scores are fakes etc etc etc. I refered them to Slashdot, and they STILL are in awe. I can't wait to play with one of these puppies :) What a great day :)

[contempt]

Oh, since i'm venting, the 8gigs of RAM is awesome. However, it'll still set you back $3700. I would have rather used that real estate in the computer for additional drives. I mean 4 gigs of RAM would have equally been impressive; and yet still out of reach in terms of price.

Also, why did Jobs hype the mediocre Nvidia and ATI cards? Those aren't the best out there. At least the Apple Store has an option to choose the ATI 9800 Pro for $300 more. That card should have been standard. 128mb vs. 64mb makes a huge difference in graphics cards.

[ddtlm]

Steradian:

Don't get too excited about SPEC scores. Notice Apple did not invite an Opteron? :) Thats cause Apple would have lost.

[contempt]

Originally posted by ejb190
I was looking at the speed comparisons posted on the Apple's G5 page. They are showing how the Dual 2 GHz is faster than the current top of the line single processor Intel and ADM offerings.

I always cringe when I see things like this. Part of the story is always left behind. But alas, that's marketing!

But I wonder what happens to those results when you use a dual Intel or ADM chip or a single G5.

"First gather your facts, then contort them at your leisure." - Mark Twain


Well he did do a demo with Single and Dual Processor PCs. The half that's misleading is that the Single Processor P4 beat the Single Processor G5 in the tests he showed. That's why they're comparing Dual Processors cause of the system is optimized for the dual processors.

Which means nobody should be purchasing a single processor G5. Those specs weren't impressive at all.

[czardmitri]

Anyone else notice that the pix of the g5 all look like 3-d renders, not actual photos? What the...? Also, what IS in those purported boxes at the Apple stores that said "don't open until June 23"?

[contempt]

Alright my last vent of the day:

This G5 looks like a souped up muscle car. If that's what you want, then that's cool.

However, in a time when everything's getting smaller, and how overwhelmingly well regarded the design of the cube was (although expandability was the issue), I would have loved to have seen something sexy. I mean a Porsche 911 is gorgeous, I don't need it to look like a Hummer.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
Okay, I posted this in the Keynote thread, but as no one has thus far said anything to this effect and I feel it is an important point for discussion, I am posting it in this thread, as well.

I really could care less about the looks of the G5 (though I question the ergonomics of getting rid of the mobo hinge) -- what bothers me is the apparently cramped confines of the interior, which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage (http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html).

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.

I just don't understand why Apple decided to take a significant step backwards, especially since PowerMacs have been designed to easily handle more than 2 hard drives since the revision B Blue & White's.

I think you are seeing the first steps to "consumer server farms" where the CPU is of limited expandability in a particular catagory (ie only 2 HD, only 3 PCI, only 1 Optical drive, etc.

But great I/O for external services (PCI-X Fiberchannel, built-in FW800 and E1000, etc.)

This is the first step to a home media server. even the audio is now high bandwidth digital.

The idea of an all-in-one box is an old one and for general consumers one that may stay alive for a while. But for decades stereo systems have been on the component model and I predict high capacity consumer computers will transition that way too. Server rack in that old useless coat closet?

Let me also echo WOW! and also say THANK YOU MACRUMORS.COM for doing it right all along the way. Support this site. Buy your G5 through the specified channels.

Heck, buy your server farm through their specified channels! I hear the audio guys already have an eye on daisy chaining several G5's through digital I/O and FW800. I do not do audio but one would think some science applications would also benefit from mid-sized server farms with Pooch-like software.

I said early and often RAID everywhere and this release has software RAID stock and dual SATA drives internally and acess to massive external storage through FW800 and PCI-X Fiberchannel. It will be intertesting to see local IP networks transition to FW800 to surpass E1000.

For several years I bought laptops because the speed benefits of a desktop were just not exciting enough for me. But this is a 4-8x improvement and has my attention. I will be looking closely at comments comparing the mid and high end system as the low end has several unwanted cripples for only a $400 cost reduction. I need to upgrade my small farm too.

Rocketman


http://v-serv.com/-upload/avatar2.jpg

Hey Steve. You really do rock.

[silverstreak]

Great performance. Great price. Bad expandibility. Looks like a big cheese grater.

[wizard]

I've been pondering the same thing. One does have to wonder when the frontside bus speeds will get out of hand. That is how long can the keep the 0.5 multiplier. There seems to be a very good possibility for system updates before Christmas. If Apple and IBM want ot play hardball agianst the Intel crowd that update will be needed. Significant speed bumps three times a year would keep them ahead of the ball game. My suspicion is that hey would want to hit 2.5 GHz by the Christmas time frame to be ready for the 3GHz machine come this time next year. They have already publicly said that 3GHz is their goal in 12 months, so a revison splitting the difference in 6 to 7 months seems to be a given.


On another note before rushing off to work - Panther looked really slick, if they can continue to rev the operating system this way they will be getting alot of attention from the rest of the world.


Thanks
Dave


Originally posted by starflyer 59
So much for for boxes being at Apple stores marked with signs not to open..... Oh well, I guess August isn't too far away.... Also, the statement that they wil be 3.0 Ghz in 12 months makes me wonder if we will see more frequent updates to the PowerMac line....

Maybe they could do this:
1.8, 2.0 and dual 2.2's in January.
2.0, 2.2 and dual 2.4's in April

and so on.... that would rule. I would love to see mor frequent updates.

[gothamac]

I don't see how they could come up with this new sleek aluminum case, they same direction they took with the powerbooks, and offer them up with the current Keyboard and Mouse that seems stuck in the nineties. The plastic keyboard will look so dated next to these machines. Same with the displays, but at least they're sold separately. Maybe they'll introduce a new keyboard before these ship in late August?

[macnews]

Originally posted by Rocketman
For several years I bought laptops because the speed benefits of a desktop were just not exciting enough for me. But this is a 4-8x improvement and has my attention. I will be looking closely at comments comparing the mid and high end system as the low end has several unwanted cripples for only a $400 cost reduction. I need to upgrade my small farm too.

Speaking of laptops - in January did Steve mean this is the "half-year" of the laptops? I agree with you, the speed improvement is very significant and resulted in my putting off the purchase of a powerbook for now.

[ejb190]

I really do like the inclusion of USB 2.0. That is one thing I think is really missing from the new Powerbooks.

Having Firewire 400, Firewire 800, USB 1.1, AND USB 2.0 really covers your expandability options.

And folks, don't take my previous post wrong. I don't care what they do with the processors, it's the OS that keeps me with Mac (and I like what I see with 10.3!). I just hate flashy ad campains that manage to oversimplify the facts.

[fuge]

Originally posted by czardmitri
Also, what IS in those purported boxes at the Apple stores that said "don't open until June 23"?

Probably the other piece of hardware/product announced at the keynote...iSight.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by contempt
Well he did do a demo with Single and Dual Processor PCs. The half that's misleading is that the Single Processor P4 beat the Single Processor G5 in the tests he showed. That's why they're comparing Dual Processors cause of the system is optimized for the dual processors.

Which means nobody should be purchasing a single processor G5. Those specs weren't impressive at all.

go home contempt....just because the single processors arent as fast as the duals no one should buy them? go smoke another bowl. anyway, anyone who talks **** about these systems are worse off than i am when it comes to being negative. this is a great day, enjoy it while it lasts.

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by beatle888
this is a great day, enjoy it while it lasts.

Exactly! Apple has just introduced the first 64 bits desktop computer. The fastest fsb for a desktop computer. The best OS for a desktop computer. Maybe even the fastest desktop computer, ever!
This is a gr8 day! We'll remember this day for years to come! Enjoy it. :cool:

[aethier]

I find it to be a very, very impressive machine. the best ever from Apple, just i am a little dissapointed with teh case design. And i miss the door, that two layer crappy slide thing is the same as a PC.

Anyways time to save my pennies.

aethier

[nuckinfutz]

Originally posted by contempt
Oh, since i'm venting, the 8gigs of RAM is awesome. However, it'll still set you back $3700. I would have rather used that real estate in the computer for additional drives. I mean 4 gigs of RAM would have equally been impressive; and yet still out of reach in terms of price.

Also, why did Jobs hype the mediocre Nvidia and ATI cards? Those aren't the best out there. At least the Apple Store has an option to choose the ATI 9800 Pro for $300 more. That card should have been standard. 128mb vs. 64mb makes a huge difference in graphics cards.

With today HD sizes why would someone need more than two bays? Two bays easily fits a half Terabyte of HD.

I don't think Apple should put in 9800 cards. Maybe 128MB cards but most Mac users are just not big gamers. There's no need to jack the price up for a game card when you'd be better off building a PC based game box.

Great performance. Great price. Bad expandibility. Looks like a big cheese grater.

Hmmm so having USB2.0 FW400 FW800, 10/100/1000 ethernet, Bluetooth and 802.11g Wireless is now "Bad Expandability" ?? Pray tell.

Steradian:

Don't get too excited about SPEC scores. Notice Apple did not invite an Opteron? Thats cause Apple would have lost.


Hmmmm not too sure about that. We'll see. It'll be close.

[tychay]

are a riot.

It's nice to start Monday's with a good laugh. Thanks!

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by czardmitri
Anyone else notice that the pix of the g5 all look like 3-d renders, not actual photos? What the...? Also, what IS in those purported boxes at the Apple stores that said "don't open until June 23"?

The point of purchase displays for the products announced today is all. No big deal.

Rocketman

[void]

just ordered dual 2 ghz with radeon 9800 everything else standard

[reyesmac]

Since I only want a Powermac to have fun and to replace my good enough for now G4 450, I will be waiting until they release the new iMac before I fork over 2 grand again for another tower. Since I would want a new monitor as well its just more money than I should pay for the kind of "work" I do with it. At these prices I don't even know if my newspaper will buy these, its more than they payed for the macs we use now. Does Apple expect its stingy pro customers who only buy the bottom end Powermacs to pay more than the Macs they are replacing? Thats my only problem with these new machines. I am sure Apple is working on that problem though.
The entry price on these systems is high enough were they can have a mini pro mac under it at cheaper prices. I would love a cube with a G5 in it.

[Windowlicker]

just one thing: why did the VeriTest comparisons not have any AMD processors on it? The stuff with the Poster with G5 vs Xeon was something really funny, but I still would like to see the comparisons with other processors as well.

Also, i'd like to see more than just 2d/3d/audio/video apps tested.

Anyway, I think 8GBs of ram is pretty darn sick (in a good way of course)! :p I don't like the new case as much as the quicksilver, but it has some cool stuff.. and it's so much quieter! the noise this 733 keeps is pretty annoying in a way (i've got used to it though).

great stuff. maybe I'll be starting to use iChat when I get a faster connection than my ISDN and also the camera was really neat.

cool stuff. cool thinking, apple :) thumbs up and massive respect!

[frescies]

Originally posted by andrewh
Initially, I was disappointed with the case design. I thought it could have been cooler looking. But, I think it will grow on us. I like the way it looks very industrial -- clean front, no logos, etc. Mesh is awesome. The more I look at it the more I like it. I wonder if it was Jonathan Ives that designed it again.

Anyway I suppose it's what's inside that counts...


This certainly beats the Performa6100 as the UGLIEST Mac EVER

[Carpideum]

I went ahead and ordered the dual 2 gig! can't wait for august to get here!!

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by contempt
This is the exact complaint I have. It's ridiculous to have all this power and not have a case designed intelligently to expand. What makes you think that in-case expansion is intelligent? The innards of the new case are nicely laid out, can expand to 8gb chip / 512gb disk easily (new drive just snaps in), comes with a good optical drive... that meets the needs of 99+% of the consumers out there, I'll bet, even the pros.

If I need 2 terabytes of disk, I'll get an XServe. If I need to burn hundreds of CDs, I'll get an automated burner/labeller or 10. I can't think of many cards to get other than communications ones (like the FiberChannel)... what am I missing?

Besides, the old case could get more crowded, but I'll take a 35db computer any day! And if that means that I can't stack a 10,000rpm HD over the memory blocking the airflow to the CPUs (for example) ... oh, well.

-Richard

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
1. Yes, it's the 970. Apple's calling it the G5 because it fits with the existing name scheme and because the specific chip (i.e. 970, 980) will change more frequently than Apple wants to change the name.

The 980 should come out some time next year. Apple doesn't want to have to call that something else. They'll just call it the Dual-Core G5, or something like that (assuming Apple even uses the 980).

2. That person was probably talking about the 980, or some other successor to the 970.

Thanks a lot. its just that i didn't see 970 mentioned anywhere.
Also, i think i was just so surprised that someone would be after a g6 when the g5 is only 5 hours old. im going to wait for a rev b anyway, maybe that will be the 980 g6? Thanks again.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by fuge
Probably the other piece of hardware/product announced at the keynote...iSight.
Nope. I was at an Apple Store. iSight won't be available until later this week.

I'm not sure there were boxes with any new product at all (there was an almost identical rumor back at MWSF that turned out to be nothing).

[ddtlm]

frescies:

No way, the Grater is better than the Mirror by quite a bit.

[timbloom]

I just wanted to mention a few things really quick, not that it will probably get much attention right now:

You install this ram in pairs (at least on other computers) because it is dual-channel ram. These machines have a FSB of 800-1000 mhz. The ram speed is 333-400 (i believe, off the top of my head) They make it dual-channel to increase the effective speed of ram as a whole, to lessen the ram bottleneck. this means you need the same exact ram installed in pairs for this to work. My pc will still work when not installed in pairs, but i will have a large bottleneck in the ram.

[Apple][Forever]

Best. Keynote. EVER.

[Dont Hurt Me]

Originally posted by reyesmac
Since I only want a Powermac to have fun and to replace my good enough for now G4 450, I will be waiting until they release the new iMac before I fork over 2 grand again for another tower. Since I would want a new monitor as well its just more money than I should pay for the kind of "work" I do with it. At these prices I don't even know if my newspaper will buy these, its more than they payed for the macs we use now. Does Apple expect its stingy pro customers who only buy the bottom end Powermacs to pay more than the Macs they are replacing? Thats my only problem with these new machines. I am sure Apple is working on that problem though.
The entry price on these systems is high enough were they can have a mini pro mac under it at cheaper prices. I would love a cube with a G5 in it. i agree and me too. Entry price to high and where is the 970 cube for god sake.

[Pale Rider]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Nope. I was at an Apple Store. iSight won't be available until later this week.

I'm not sure there were boxes with any new product at all (there was an almost identical rumor back at MWSF that turned out to be nothing).

According to the staff at the Valley Fair store in Santa Clara, CA, iSight is available in store tomorrow, Tuesday, the 24th.

[macnews]

Originally posted by ddtlm
Steradian:

Don't get too excited about SPEC scores. Notice Apple did not invite an Opteron? :) Thats cause Apple would have lost.

Isn't Opteron for SERVER clustering and not desktops? So far as I am aware, I have not heard any news or rumors about an Opteron chip being released in a standard desktop model. I am sure there are many other chips out there that could kick the "G5's" butt. How many are set for the desktop market?

Apple could be poised for an increase in market share IF they put the G5 in the imacs soon. If they keep with their past trend the average consumer models (imacs) a whole chip difference behind, don't expect any increase in market share. In this aspect, the G5 could actually HURT switchers who hear about the great, fast new macs but only need an imac. Then buy an imac only to find out it isn't as fast, etc. Even though they don't need the speed the whole Ghz myth (not so much a myth with the current imac line) will rear its ugly head.

Based on the pricing of the new models, I would think the imac line should be ripe for an update to the G5 as well. This makes the price difference is $200 between the low end G5 and the high end imac.

[illumin8]

Yes, the base model blows chunks.

Sad to say that they could have put DDR 400 memory in the base model as well, and the memory speed would have perfectly matched the FSB of 800 mhz. It's too bad they had to cripple it with DDR333 memory instead.

Also, can anyone answer me this about the high-end model: Does it actually have 4 banks of DDR400 memory, for a total memory bandwidth of 12.8GB/sec., or is it only 2 banks of DDR400 memory? The slides they showed during the WWDC keynote seemed to contradict each other.

This makes a big difference, because with 2ghz. total FSB on the Dual model, having only a paltry 800 mhz. FSB to memory doesn't really make a lot of sense.

[Wonder Boy]

a few more thoughts...

1. one optical drive is rediculous. One of the the main sticking points of my potential purchase of a powe mac was having 2 drives.

2. why only 2 hard drive bays? i dont care for external hd's, theyre too slow.

3. the 8 gigs if ram is great

4. i thought i saw a mention of panther for 30$ for jag owners, is that true?

thanks a lot.

ps. anyone know any good books on scripting?

[Vijay]

Originally posted by jbh001
Okay, I'm not good at math, but
166MHz * 1.60 = 265.6 MHz.
166MHz * 6.02 = 999.3 MHz.

I think the means more than a 600% increase over 166MHz.



Actually, that's a 500% increase.

It's (1000-166)/166.

Remember, twice as much is a 100% increase, not a 200% increase.

[illumin8]

Originally posted by 5
did steve handicap early sales of the G5 with the hint of 3 Ghz in a year?

Especially when, historically, there have been definite advantages to waiting for the second revs. . .
No, because if you think about it, in the PC world, every 18 months your PC is twice as fast. This is nothing new to PC heads, you pretty much acknowledge that if you buy a 3 ghz. P4 right now, in 12 months they will be up to 4.5 or something like that.

To the Mac world this is a new concept, and I say "welcome to Moore's law". This is a great day...

[Baja2k]

Originally posted by illumin8
Yes, the base model blows chunks.

Sad to say that they could have put DDR 400 memory in the base model as well, and the memory speed would have perfectly matched the FSB of 800 mhz. It's too bad they had to cripple it with DDR333 memory instead.

Also, can anyone answer me this about the high-end model: Does it actually have 4 banks of DDR400 memory, for a total memory bandwidth of 12.8GB/sec., or is it only 2 banks of DDR400 memory? The slides they showed during the WWDC keynote seemed to contradict each other.

This makes a big difference, because with 2ghz. total FSB on the Dual model, having only a paltry 800 mhz. FSB to memory doesn't really make a lot of sense.

The following is Directly from the architecture tab on the apple site.

400MHz dual-channel memory
The new Power Mac G5’s memory controller supports fast 400MHz, 128-bit DDR SDRAM, and a dual-channel interface enables main memory to address two banks of SDRAM at a time, reading and writing on both the rising and falling edge of each clock cycle. This effectively doubles the bandwidth, enabling the Power Mac G5 to reach a maximum memory throughput of up to 6.4GB per second — an advance that’s especially welcome when you’re working with enormous files. In addition, direct memory access (DMA) works with the point-to-point system controller to give each subsystem — such as PCI cards and graphics processing units — its own 6.4-GBps interface to main memory, without siphoning power from your processors.

Regards,

[kjottbein]

i think the new case design is beautiful, although long overdue.

but i think i'll wait for the 3 gHz, as i am quite content with my current PB.

[Moonlight]

Originally posted by contempt



Anyway, the more I read up on the specs, the more disappointed I'm feeling. I think I'll just wait for the Powerbook G5.



Oh, shut up.... just be happy with a kick ass machine....
we could have got a 1.6ghz G4 instead ??? you want that? noooooo

[illumin8]

Originally posted by ddtlm
Steradian:

Don't get too excited about SPEC scores. Notice Apple did not invite an Opteron? :) Thats cause Apple would have lost. Also notice how Apple used GCC for both Intel and G5 benchmarks? Well, GCC is heavily optimized for the G5, but not optimized for Intel hardly at all. If you check the real SPEC scores for Intel (compiled with Intel's compiler), you'll see that Apple is handily beat by them.

However, the "real-world" Altivec based apps scream on the Macs and the "real-world" demos were very impressive.

It's really just more Apple marketing spin. We'll show you the benchmarks the way they make us look best. Don't believe everything you see.

[ddtlm]

macnews:

Isn't Opteron for SERVER clustering and not desktops? So far as I am aware, I have not heard any news or rumors about an Opteron chip being released in a standard desktop model.
Opterons compete with Xeons, and are intended as a workstation chip as well as a server chip.

illumin8:

Sad to say that they could have put DDR 400 memory in the base model as well, and the memory speed would have perfectly matched the FSB of 800 mhz.
You forget that there is 1-bit-in-9 overhead for the FSB. DDR 400 would have been too fast for the base model. All of the G5 systems have two banks of memory which work together to form a 128-bit interface, so the memory on the dual 2.0 is much slower than the combined FSB's.

[macgraphicgirl]

... mainly because it's not all that new. Not terribly innovative by any stretch. Looks like something out of an early 90's rack system. Maybe the G5 looks better up close, I don't know. Looking at it, I have this feeling that I've just been given a luscious steak dinner presented to me on a garbage can lid. I mean, all that innovation and total coolness inside that box!! I'm disappointed that they couldn't come up with a better case design than that -- and to throw away the hinged side just seems like a big backwards step. Based on the deafening silence in the room when they finally showed the photo of the new G5, I'm guessing I wasn't alone.

Do you think that perhaps this might be just the phase-one design, the way they did with the original beige G4? Perhaps another design is coming?

JMHO, please don't shoot me. :)

[illumin8]

Originally posted by macgraphicgirl
... mainly because it's not all that new. Not terribly innovative by any stretch. Looks like something out of an early 90's rack system. Maybe the G5 looks better up close, I don't know. Looking at it, I have this feeling that I've just been given a luscious steak dinner presented to me on a garbage can lid. I mean, all that innovation and total coolness inside that box!! I'm disappointed that they couldn't come up with a better case design than that -- and to throw away the hinged side just seems like a big backwards step. Based on the deafening silence in the room when they finally showed the photo of the new G5, I'm guessing I wasn't alone.

Do you think that perhaps this might be just the phase-one design, the way they did with the original beige G4? Perhaps another design is coming?

JMHO, please don't shoot me. :) I really think the fugliness of the new case is because Steve probably told Ives to focus more on the technical details (quiet design, maximizing space, etc.) than the aesthetics of the case.

[PowerBook User]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
a few more thoughts...

1. one optical drive is rediculous. One of the the main sticking points of my potential purchase of a powe mac was having 2 drives.

2. why only 2 hard drive bays? i dont care for external hd's, theyre too slow.

3. the 8 gigs if ram is great

4. i thought i saw a mention of panther for 30$ for jag owners, is that true?

I agree on every point you made. I also think they should have more PCI/PCI-X slots. This is a pro system. Don't get me wrong. I'm very impressed by the G5 specs.

As for the Panther discount, I'd be very excited if this is true, but I have no idea. If it was true, I think Steve would have mentioned it, but not necessarily.

[caboosemoose]

I'm very relieved that apple have finally come out with something competitive with the wintel platform. But $1999 for the 1.6GHz version with an nVidia fx5200 (and no monitor of course), what a joke. For 2k you can get a fully tricked out PC with an aluminium case, nice flat panel and top end video card. There's no way you're going to get people swapping platforms with those prices. The PPC970 chip is a great chance for apple to take a lot of market share, but with prices like that, there's no chance.

Apple needs to bring out a cheaper consumer line based on the 970 chip fast, IMHO. I don't doubt these new machines are just what creative professionals are after, and I'm not suggesting apple bring their prices fully in line with PCs, but I think the gap needs to be closed a little.


Oh, and am I the only one who thinks Steve Jobs is getting a little freaky - No one else was allowed to reveal any hard news - even the IBM guy had to leave it to Jobs to announce the 3GHz on 1 year factlet. Plus, a huge amout of horrific ass kissing, and......having Al Gore on was a big mistake, the guy is a village idiot and having him show up just proved what a worrying decision it was to put him on the board. having said that, there's no question Jobs is a polished performer, very slick indeed.

[Lokii]

What do you guys think is the absolute earliest that a G5 iMac will be released? Will it be a while so as not to cannibalize the base model's sales?

Oh, and Panther will cost $129 for Jaguar users. The $29 you seem to remember will be the cost of av iChat after December 31.

[iShater]

Originally posted by hacurio1
I was there too!!! It was awesome :)
BTW, I thought that early September was the date they were expecting machines available at that store, not the date they will be shipping. I could be wrong though!

I was there three! :D place was full!

[Mr Jobs]

Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
It will be nice one day when apple can compare one cpu vs another, how about a single 2 gig 970 vs a single 3.2 p4???

Go watch the keynote again they did do a comparison between a SINGLE 2ghz G5 against t a Single 3Ghz P4. it was when they were going through the benchmark graphs. Maybe if you paid a little attention you might of heard it.

[Abstract]

*puts the gun away*

For all of you looking at the specs of one or all of the new G5's who are feeling a bit disappointed: What's the problem? You haven't even used one of these machines yet. No complaints about speed until you've used one of these machines and it can't handle what you're trying to do, please. :)

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by contempt
Alright my last vent of the day:
.

It's not a vent mate you have shown us, it's a huge-a a$$ahol-a blowin' out gas.

These comments are absurd. They belong on the ZD Net forum- which is no supporter of Apple. Speaking of which, ZD Net has posted two Wintel articles today, one about P4s (now that's excitement!!!!) and the other about a Microsoft pathway. Who cares??
Nothing about WWDC.

[PowerBook User]

Originally posted by Lokii
What do you guys think is the absolute earliest that a G5 iMac will be released? Will it be a while so as not to cannibalize the base model's sales?

That's a very good question. Apple may try to keep G4's in iMac to differentiate the towers for a while. If they do though, they could put the 1.25 and 1.42 G4's into the iMacs (assuming they aren't too hot). I hope they sell G5 iMacs by year's end (maybe for Christmas?). The iMacs didn't have a G4 nearly as long as the towers, though.

[rjstanford]

one optical drive is rediculous. One of the the main sticking points of my potential purchase of a powe mac was having 2 drivesSo get a second drive. Firewire or USB 2.0, your choice.

Originally posted by PowerBook User
I agree on every point you made. I also think they should have more PCI/PCI-X slots. This is a pro system

Okay. How many PCI-X cards are you planning on using? This is a serious question. I mean, what exactly do you have in mind that requires the use of more than three empty slots?

And these are real questions.

How many people really need more than one optical drive? Or more than three empty PCI-X slots, on a system with Firewire 800, Airport, etc, built in? As a percentage? And of that percentage, how many of them a) only need two, and not fifty. And of the remaining, how many of them won't be happy with an external drive? What sacrifices in airflow (ie: noise, heat), et cetera, should Apple have made to make these few people happy?

If I'm missing some common use for dual internal-only burners and 4 or 5 PCI cards, please tell me. If not .. then are people really just looking for something, anything, to whine about? On a day like today, say it ain't so.

-Richard

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Nope. I was at an Apple Store. iSight won't be available until later this week.

I'm not sure there were boxes with any new product at all (there was an almost identical rumor back at MWSF that turned out to be nothing).

Fact is, there are always shipments of boxes being delivered to the Apple stores. It's just that nobody seems to pay any attention to them until a few weeks before an event. I think people add the part about "do not open until xx/xx/xx" because they didn't get enough attention as a child. :p

[NWBadger]

Originally posted by idkew

only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus.

It's a jump of >602%. :)

[thepickledegg]

I think they need a new webmaster. Look at STEP 1 g3 not G5 OOPS!!

[Chris Marks]

I went to the keynote presentation at the local Apple store, and ordered a dual 2 Ghz right after. I know it's usually best to wait for rev B, but I can't wait that long :)

I'm very pleased with today's presentation.

[Makosuke]

I'm a happy Mac user. I'm tempted to wait for a rev. 2 (if just for cheaper DP2Ghz machines, cause I'm poor), but I'm seriously drooling over some of the most competitive machines Apple has produced to date.

Basically, if there was anthing--ANYTHING--people were hoping for, it's in these boxes. They've shipped duals right off the bat (there was question, remember), they're shipping 2Ghz machines (most early reports were hoping for 1.8 at the top), they've got Serial ATA for the HDs (don't remember many rumors claiming that), USB2.0 (along with FW800 and 1000BT, of course) for the external stuff, optical audio (even in!) for the surround sound crowd, PCI-X for expansion (again, I don't remember many hopeful rumors on that front), 8x AGP for graphics, and you can get a Radeon 9800 if it's worth the money to you. And the prices aren't far off of what the last generation cost at announcement.

That, as far as I'm concerned, makes this our big turning point. If Apple (and IBM) can sustain the momentum, it'll all be uphill from now on.

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
a few more thoughts...
2. why only 2 hard drive bays? i dont care for external hd's, theyre too slow.

No, external HDs aren't slow now. You can read the BareFeats article if you want, but the upshot is an HD on a FW800 bus and one on ATA-133 are nearly identical in performance:

http://www.barefeats.com/fire35.html

Now, I like sticking stuff in my case because it's clean and a bit cheaper, and I was a bit disappointed at the limited external bays, too...

But the fact is external FW (or USB2 if you're really cheap) cases are really reasonable now, and are going to get even cheaper. Put as many external drives on your desk as you want if 500GB internally isn't enough. Same goes for the optical drives--sure, it'd be nice to have two, but my old DP533 doesn't, either, and I'm fine--just get a $40 FW400 case, it'll be just as fast.

The case looks the way it does, has limited expansion, and is slightly less accessable for a reason: awsome airflow. Wish for a particular design all you want, cooling is what really counts in the end if you want your computer to keep running reliably for years. Heat is what kills any computer part, period. This case has cooling like nobody's business--I was frankly amazed looking at the cutaway demos on Apple's site, and the design makes perfect sense when viewed that way.

This box is form following function, and with all the function it's packin', I think the form is just fine. Nobody's going to be accusing us of using "toy" computers any more, that's for sure.

[Peter3210]

With a 5 zone air intake and exhaust system the G5 bears some superficial resemblance to a jet engine. The difference is that the G5 produces only 35 db of sound -- that's quiet. As much as I would like a fanless cube, the G5 appears to be so quiet that it will approach the gold standard of being silent.

[Brother Mugga]

I've been waiting to switch for about a year now and so have been following the boards and rumour sites closely.

In this context, some of the comments here are amazing.

You've just been handed an extremely competitively priced (certainly the top two), blisteringly fast machine that is (apparently) half the audible volume of the old 'wind tunnel...'*

...and all some people can do is moan about the case design (which probably favours efficiency and airflow over form and looks a *lot* nicer in the flesh...although I'd like to have seen an 'Apple' logo on the front, picked out in a denser mesh (if you see what I mean)).

Oh, and worry about whether future scaling of the processor will make your G5 purchase seem slow.

Er, as a previous poster put it; welcome to Moore's Law. Surely you WANT this to happen? Or would you rather be stuck with Motorola's '200MHz every six months' juggernaut of scaling?

Dear oh dear.

Some Mac-fanatics are *pre-tty* hard to please.

Right, where's mi' credit card...


Brother Mugga

PS: First time I've managed to catch the 'Steve Show' on Quicktime. Ahhhhh, bless 'im.

PPS: Now all Apple's got to do is open a London store and I'll be sorted.

*although I'm presuming this is on the ear, rather than decibels...surely the wind tunnel wasn't 70db (!!)?

[ddtlm]

Lokii:

What do you guys think is the absolute earliest that a G5 iMac will be released? Will it be a while so as not to cannibalize the base model's sales?
Apple couldn't release the iMac with a G5 any time soon even if they wanted to. They just don't have enough engineers to redesign and test all their hardware so quickly. The G5 iMac will only happen after the Xserve and AluBooks go G5. I'm guessing at least a year and a half before there is any real chance of a G5 iMac. In the mean time, Apple can use faster 7455's and 7457's.

PowerBook User:

I hope they sell G5 iMacs by year's end (maybe for Christmas?).
I'd give this a 0% chance of happening.

[Abstract]

Well said, Mugga. :)

Some people here are just the "picky" types, like a small child with a bloody nose who doesn't know why.

[utilizer]

G5s are here when I said "don't get your hopes up, not until MWSF!"
I'm just glad they're finally here and now I can order one, but closer to the time they get released (Sept. 1).
It's good to see Apple back on top of their game again. Now, here we go!
2 Dual Ghz G5, here I come!
And when the G5 PowerBook 17 incher gets released, I'll be there too!!

Great show guys, best day in Apple history that will get them 4-6% more market share.

And great coverage Arn!

[tjwett]

New PowerMacs are lacking an L3 Cache. I just noticed this. Does this matter, or is this new system not in need of it?

[PowerBook User]

I don't think most people are complaining (at least I'm not). I was just commenting on something that could make it a little better (like in a later revision). I'm actually VERY happy about the new Power Macs. They're much better than I expected! Faster, 64-bit, AGP 8x, USB 2.0, 1 GHz bus, SuperDrive standard, PCI-X, serial ATA hard drives, etc.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by Brother Mugga


*although I'm presuming this is on the ear, rather than decibels...surely the wind tunnel wasn't 70db (!!)?

Half the audible volume is not the same as half the decibels. Decibels are measured on a proportional scale (which I don't remember the specifics of).

[gwuMACaddict]

oooooo... let the folding begin. and the dick measuring, can't forget that. ;)

[DTphonehome]

For all the whiners...not only is this the fastest desktop on the planet, it also grates cheese and functions as a space heater and hair dryer (just face it backwards). So quit complaining! Can your G4 do that?

[snahabed]

Oh my god! I want to take everyone who is complaining about price and beat them with a STICK!

These are PRO machines for PRO users. Not consumer switchers. for the love of god, the now price-reduced G4 powermacs are VERY fast and VERY cheap.

Also, why do you people bitch about not having an extra optical drive? How many people need something MORE than a superdrive? Very very few. And if you do, great. Get an external. Simple. Same with the hard drives. You really need more than 160GB or so? REALLY? OK, that is great, very very few people do. So if you do, get an external. Simple.

The G5 is form, it is function, and it is VERY reasonably priced. In the name of all that is holy, don't be such whiny biatches!

[KEL9000]

The presentation was first rate. All I can say is did you see the photoshop and mathmatica demos. The G5 is fast, very fast. Who gives a **** about SPEC scores when you can show real world ass kicking like that. The data throughput is rediculous. They even made special note to reassure everyone that the G5 is very scalable (won't get stuck at 500Mhz).

The people that should be worried are Sun and SGI. The G5 is without a doubt the fastest Unix Workstation ever, that will even run Office.

I had one observation as I was watching the Stevenote. It is kinda of funny that first M$ and now IBM have come through to bail Apple out. 2 of the 3 companies that person through the hammer through in 1984. I hope they stay away from Intel though.

Does anyone else think the case is similar to a VME crate?

[VIREBEL661]

Steve and Apple didn't let us down! Time to break out the champagne boys and girls! I actually LOVE the new design, and all of the specs are very impressive... I'm very happy IBM was there - they have a great personal stake in the processor wars, and to be honest, have the ability to kill anything wintel should throw at them from this point foward! It is a good day to be a Mac enthusiast! I remeber reading an article in PC magazine or something when the last iMac came out... It said 'like it or not, what Apple does now is what you'll be seeing on PC's six months from now', which is to say, Apple is the definitive desktop technology leader, most recently of the OS, but now of hardware as well! Very Exciting! HOOOOORAY!!!:D

[eric_n_dfw]

Responding to a bunch of posts here:

Apple has never compared itself to AMD chips. Why? Some will say that it's because they are scared; others because if you look at PC's from most places, they only put them in their "low end" machines. I have no idea - I assume that Apple's target audience are pro / high-end users who would most-likely buy Intel.
Why didn't they compare it to an Opteron? Are they released yet? I thought they are still a couple months from being sold. (and AMD is not going to donate one!)
Echo'ing other's concerns, the use of GCC 3.3 on Intel is sure fodder for x86 geeks (already is on ./ and ArsTechnica discussions) as the MS .Net Studio compiler's produce much more optimized code and, thus, higher SPEC number. (considerably so according to those other forum discussions)
To the person wanting to know why Apple didn't use dual P4's in the graphs. Check again, they ran them against dual Xeon 3.06Ghz. (There is no such thing as a dual P4 -- except for the Xeon models)

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
Okay, I posted this in the Keynote thread, but as no one has thus far said anything to this effect and I feel it is an important point for discussion, I am posting it in this thread, as well.

I really could care less about the looks of the G5 (though I question the ergonomics of getting rid of the mobo hinge) -- what bothers me is the apparently cramped confines of the interior, which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage (http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html).

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.

I just don't understand why Apple decided to take a significant step backwards, especially since PowerMacs have been designed to easily handle more than 2 hard drives since the revision B Blue & White's.

I was kind of disappointed with this too, but not much. I’ll tell you why. As far as I know, SATA has smaller cables and allows for longer cables as well. I’ve seen external cases for SATA drives, so probably the storage issue won’t be an issue. I can’t confirm this will be the fact, but I see very feasible substitutions for storage, XRaid anyone? Also, I saw today an external 200Gb FW800 HD, can somebody post info on how fast is this interface compared to an internal ATA. Perhaps is not a step back, but evolution. For example, why another internal optical bay if an external disc drive would do the same job. The only draw back is that expandability will be more expensive if we decide to go with external solutions. Overall, the only issue for me is the presence of only 3 PCI-X slots. Oh well, perhaps Rev B.

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by Brother Mugga

Some Mac-fanatics are *pre-tty* hard to please.




They're not Mac-fanatics, mate, they are trolls that trawl the deep murky slime of the Wintel nether world and surface to breathe and release gas periodically... the burble heard is pleasing only to those tuned to the frequencies permitted by the Evil Empire.

This is one of the greatest days for Apple, Inc. and we are blessed that they forwent incremental changes for a radical leap forward... typical Apple when they aren't hamstrung!

[scan300]

I loved the cow (longhorn).

What's with the PC world and the bovine industry, you have Gateway and their cowhide, Microsoft and Longhorn and a pasture to look at on XP?

[avus]

Here is the first photo report of the G5, displayed outside the hall, and I understand there are tens of the G5 that attendees can play with.

Contents are in Japanese, but a picture is worth a thousand words, right? (I find the URL very interesting - "pc.watch.impress"?)

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/0624/wwdc02.htm

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by Flowbee
Half the audible volume is not the same as half the decibels. Decibels are measured on a proportional scale (which I don't remember the specifics of).

The decibel scale is logarithmic. Every 10 dB increase is a doubling of the intensity. Example: A 30 dB sound, when doubled in intensity (read: volume), will be 40 dB. If the new G5 produces 35 dB, that is comparable to the background noise in a suburban community. Very quiet. FYI, 130 dB will cause pain, and 140 dB is the sound intensity of a jet taking of at 25 meters. Ouch.

--DT

[daedelgt]

Originally posted by Flowbee
Half the audible volume is not the same as half the decibels. Decibels are measured on a proportional scale (which I don't remember the specifics of).

I believe the dicibel measurement is actually the power over a 10. ie x^35 decibels.

[acj]

Originally posted by Brother Mugga
*although I'm presuming this is on the ear, rather than decibels...surely the wind tunnel wasn't 70db (!!)?

3db is a doubling of sound power. 10db sounds twice as loud to our ear. These discrepencies are often abused and used in misleading ways (but I doubt in this case they are)

[.a]

does anybody buy an 1.6 or 1.8 out there? all i can read is: "i ordered my g5 dual 2ghz right away..."
what about the two other machines?
...i start saving some money now (for the dual 2ghz:)
.a

[Brother Mugga]

Regarding Flowbee's post:

Er, yeah...that's what I was saying (?). Clearly I made a hash of saying it, though (no change there...).

Db's are logarithmic,* so 70 decibels is pretty-bleedin' loud. I've never heard a wind-tunnel G4 Working Overtime (in the full XTC sense of that expression), so I have no idea whether it managed to crank out that kind of volume. It just seems unlikely, so I was suggesting that Apple'd used some other way of assessing the noise. Sorry if this wasn't clear.


Oh, and as a final observation...

Now, being British, I'm generally not in favour of creeping to the French...but perhaps we all need to go grovelling to MacBidioulle at the earliest opportunity?

Then maybe they'll tell us how they got that inside track r.e. the product and the stats.

Tsch, and there was me thinking French Intelligence was something of an oxymoron...

Brother Mugga


;)

* Edit: BOLLOCKS...by the time I posted this first time, half the world had got there before me. What's the bleedin' point of doing a physics degree if the one time you get to swank around about it, every other bugger jumps in first, eh? I have so little in life, how *could* you all take even that away from me...

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by mustang_dvs

I really could care less about the looks of the G5 (though I question the ergonomics of getting rid of the mobo hinge) -- what bothers me is the apparently cramped confines of the interior, which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage (http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html).

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.


Because the G5s use a lot of power, and you need to use that space to pass air through (heatsink). Something has got to give. If you want expandability, you could always run a PCI expansion chassis and get more slots and drives.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by hacurio1
Also, I saw today an external 200Gb FW800 HD, can somebody post info on how fast is this interface compared to an internal ATA.Speed is very comparable in recent benchmarks. Don't have the numbers in front of me, but its a few percent here or there, nothing you're likely to notice in real-world use.Overall, the only issue for me is the presence of only 3 PCI-X slots. Oh well, perhaps Rev B. Maybe you will be willing to answer my question then (since nobody else has). What, on a system like this with Firewire, 802.11g, etc, built in, do you need more than 3 PCI-X slots for? I really am curious.

-Richard

[iMook]

A decibel is one-tenth of a bel. An increase of one bel in sound intensity means a doubling of perceived volume.

"decibel" is more commonly seen than "bel" because apparently people don't like decimal points behind each measurement (and common volume measurements need not be more accurate).

DTphonehome is right.

[SubGothius]

Yegads! :eek:

The new case design is almost exactly what I had in mind when I posted this last week (the bit about reinterpreting old-tech design, like the outer shell construction of some old Dynaco tube-amps):

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=388258#post388258

Really, this concept of a bent-sheetmetal shell filled by perforated mesh grille inserts front and back is something I've been wanting to custom-fab for myself for... oh, nearly a decade now. Talk about designers plucking an idea out of the zeitgeist ether...!

The only real differences between the G5 and my older visualization is that mine would have had matte-black mesh and no handles (the mesh would have been inset by an inch or so, so the folded-back shell edges themselves would sorta serve as "handles" all the way'round). Anywho, I never had the means to construct it myself, nor the funds to pay someone to do it for me, but now I don't hafta bother custom-fabbing my own, as Apple's gone and done it for me! Thanx Apple!

(...but I still might paint the mesh matte-black, mebbe put some softly orange-glowing drive and power lights behind it to resemble warmed-up vacuum tubes -- how cool would that be? :cool: )

[tpjunkie]

If decibels are a logarithmic scale, a 10 decibel increas would mean a 10 fold increase in volume, wouldn't it? Anyway, I'm gonna start saving for my G5 powerbook...

[rjstanford]

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.Actually, the new hard drives (and you can get half a terabyte inside) just slide on in, like in a Sparc bay (or a PCI card for that matter) -- no cables to mess with. At least, that's what the website makes it sound like. I could be way off, and there's no real way to tell until we get to tear one of these down in person.

-Richard

edit: By the way, each drive position comes with its own SATA bus, so there's really no need for an expansion card just to prevent congestion.

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
Okay, I posted this in the Keynote thread, but as no one has thus far said anything to this effect and I feel it is an important point for discussion, I am posting it in this thread, as well.

I really could care less about the looks of the G5 (though I question the ergonomics of getting rid of the mobo hinge) -- what bothers me is the apparently cramped confines of the interior, which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage (http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html).

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.

I just don't understand why Apple decided to take a significant step backwards, especially since PowerMacs have been designed to easily handle more than 2 hard drives since the revision B Blue & White's.

TRUE... I'm using 2 ATA drives and a SCSI drive right now... They cerainly packed as much tech as they could into that new package, though... I think we'll see more expandability in future revisions! I would also like to see an option for industrial grade graphics cards, such as those from 3d labs... This would be another big step for making Apple a real alternative (and an inexpensive one also!) to high end Unix workstations by IBM, etc..

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Let's see. What doesn't this have? The Airport antenna is external, although not a big deal (and sticks out about as far as you'd have to have the machine off the wall for the cables anyway). Same with the Bluetooth one (no picture that I can see, but I assume it matches Airport).


Kinda hard to get electromagnetic signals out of an all-aluminum metal chassis. Maybe they could drill a couple of holes at the top of the G5, and put rabbit ears on it instead. :p

[VIREBEL661]

Soooooo... MacBidioulle was RIGHT pretty much, right???? They must have some great sources!!!

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by VIREBEL661
I would also like to see an option for industrial grade graphics cards, such as those from 3d labs... This would be another big step for making Apple a real alternative (and an inexpensive one also!) to high end Unix workstations by IBM, etc.. IIRC from the keynote, Jobs specifically mentioned this as a reason for the PCI-X Pro slots. Fast, and highly powered.

-Richard

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by idkew
yeah- i'm wondering about the g6.

this g5 really doesn't impress me very much.

only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus. only 8gb ram? sheesh. apple really isn't working too hard anymore.

I HOPE you're joking!;)

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by tjwett
New PowerMacs are lacking an L3 Cache. I just noticed this. Does this matter, or is this new system not in need of it?

I think this is an issue only on G4s because they lack a wide enough bus. I'm not sure, can someone post a technical link that answers this?

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by rjstanford
IIRC from the keynote, Jobs specifically mentioned this as a reason for the PCI-X Pro slots. Fast, and highly powered.

-Richard

MOST EXCELLENT! I missed that, I haven't actually WATCHED the keynote yet, just was on MacObserver getting minute by minute info earlier (couldn't get on MacRumors:()... Thanks!

[geerlingguy]

Well, I've finally read up on all the features, etc. of the new G5s, and here's what I have to say:

1) The speed is great, even on the single proc machines

2) I wish more expansion was available; in my G4 w/ Gigabit & AGP, I have four 120GB hard drives installed now (can't do that in a new G5... :mad: ? also the one optical drive - this is something that peecee lovers always grill us Mac users on (come on Apple!)

3) The case is neat; I LOVE the front ports (right now I always have to reach around to the back of my computer to connect my FireWire hard drive and video camera)

4) Pricing could be better; the computers are faster and better than PCs, but not enough to warrant an extra thousand bucks for the system (most PC users don't use the SPDIF optical audio or Gigabit ethernet, anyway)

Also, I've found a typo on Apple's PowerMac page: go to http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html and look down at the "Connect with S-video and RCA (composite) connectors" section at the bottom right; it allows you to preview your "wok"
-is this some sort of new Chinese translation device? ;)

[centauratlas]

>New PowerMacs are lacking an L3 Cache. I just noticed this. Does this matter, or is this new system not in need of it?<

They have on-chip L1 instruction (64K) and data caches (32K), plus 512K L2 cache for each processor.

L3 cache is most useful when accessing main memory is slow (either the memory itself, the bus, or with the processor interaction). With DDR, and very fast buses, L3 cache shouldn't make any difference in performance. And the DDR memory uses a 128-bit interface to access two banks of SDRAM at once. *PLUS* it uses a 64-bit bidirectional DDR frontside bus which again helps. And the 64-bit bus will access the cache in other processors (on the duals) when needed. (All this is from the G5 tech specs at Apple.com).

Hence, lack of L3 cache should not be a factor.

Here are some useful links:
1. This is the G5 tech overview (from which some of the info above came):
http://a352.g.akamai.net/7/352/51/e93ca6b90038b4/www.apple.com/powermac/pdf/PowerMacG5_TO_062303.pdf

2. This is on the G5/970 processor:
http://a1264.g.akamai.net/7/1264/51/d297fb89c825b9/www.apple.com/g5/pdf/G5_Processor_WP_062303.pdf

3. This is on the performance:
http://a192.g.akamai.net/7/192/51/ebb34a6c95daa5/www.apple.com/powermac/pdf/PowerMacG5_Perf_WP_062303.pdf

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
2) I wish more expansion was available; in my G4 w/ Gigabit & AGP, I have four 120GB hard drives installed now (can't do that in a new G5... :mad:Just for the record, while you can't get quad 120gb drives (480gb total) you can order one from Apple with dual 250gb drives (500gb total).

-Richard

[rjstanford]

I just want to add my voice to those talking about Sun / HP workstations being the true targets of the new PowerMac line. And its about time. When you figure that for under $7000 you can pick up a fully loaded dual G5 with 4gb (alright, so I used Crucial pricing here), APP, iSight, a 23" flatscreen, and oh what the heck the 5.1 speaker set, that's some mighty fierce competition.

I figure that what we really need to watch for are some of the more serious graphics boards creating OS X drivers. That should tell us when the 3D folk are truly on board (not that the 9800 is a bad card, but ...). And as for more serious scientific work... this truly is wonderful. No more pretty boxes (mac/windows) tied to a backend UNIX machine (unless you're doing truly hardcore work).

-Richard

ps: Now, if they'd just get autoCad for OS X, and some of the other apps like it .. whoo!

pps: Hmm. I wonder if the new IBM relationship is good enough that we'll see Websphere for the Mac too? That would rock.

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by tpjunkie
If decibels are a logarithmic scale, a 10 decibel increas would mean a 10 fold increase in volume, wouldn't it? Anyway, I'm gonna start saving for my G5 powerbook...

See iMook's post...indeed, a 10 BEL increase would be a tenfold increase in power, but a 10 decibel (which is just 1 bel) is a doubling of power.

--DT

[zoozx]

2 G 5 questions that I don't see answered on apple's site?

1. Do buyers of a G5 get Panther when it releases or do we have to buy it.

2. I don't see any pictures of the back of the machine anywhere that show the details?

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by Brother Mugga


* Edit: BOLLOCKS...by the time I posted this first time, half the world had got there before me. What's the bleedin' point of doing a physics degree if the one time you get to swank around about it, every other bugger jumps in first, eh? I have so little in life, how *could* you all take even that away from me...

LOL...I couldn't understand a word of that, but its bloody hilarious. I'm thinking Brad Pitt in "Snatch". An accent so heavy you can hear it when typed! Brilliant, mate :)

[Golem]

Well I have expressed my interest. Cant buy in Australia right now:(

Apple Australia Store G5 (http://www.asia.apple.com:81/interest/au/)

Being Limited to 1 optical drive and 2 hard drives internally means nothing to me. I have never felt the need to add drives internally beyond scsi drives in the old days. If I need it then their is a terabyte+ at the other end(s) of the network anyway.

The case design is function over form and I am fine with that and while the G5 isnt pretty at least it looks sleek.

I would have said It will be hidden away under my desk anyway but I just realized 20'' high and the cupboard in my ally and glass desk is 18'' high. Oops!. Dang and I really liked the old laminate benches we used to have and was forced to give up!

The Geoforce 5200 has to be better than my current geoforce 2 mx right?:)

I will buy the bottom or mid machine just need to see some real tests to decide which gives me the better price/performance ratio and I will wait till August before ordering just in case a G5 pbook appears as I woud rather have that.

mmm My current speakers are 4 years old. Might just have to update even at that price. Ouch!.
Digital Speakers (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/71401/wo/iv57477TwYYO2kcZ21C2vEU9VAf/2.0.7.1.0.5.1.21.13.7.3.3.0)

[centauratlas]

>which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage.<

Of course you can always connect an XServe RAID or a Fibre Channel switch...

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by DTphonehome
See iMook's post...indeed, a 10 BEL increase would be a tenfold increase in power, but a 10 decibel (which is just 1 bel) is a doubling of power. Actually, 10 bels would be a 1024 fold increase in power. Logarithms are pretty impressive.

Why the confusion? Well, the loudest non-harmful sound level is regarded as being around 110 dB, while the lowest audible sound is defined as 4 dB. That range represents a difference in power output of 40,000,000,000:1. Since those numbers are kind of bulky, this way makes sense.

0 db - the quietest sound you can hear
20 db - whisper
35 db - new dual Power Mac 2ghz
50 db - rainfall
60 db - conversational speech
75 db - washing machine
85 db - big city traffic
90 db - hair dryer
100 db - tractor in use
110 db - chainsaw, rock concert
120 db - jack hammer, ambulance siren
130 db - jet aircraft from 100 feet away
140 db - gun shot, fireworks
175 db - rocket launch

Anything over 180 (or so) db is considered a sonic weapon.

-Richard

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by VIREBEL661
Soooooo... MacBidioulle was RIGHT pretty much, right???? They must have some great sources!!!
Show me a FibreChannel port on that new Powermac and I'll agree with you.

[PowerBook User]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
Also, I've found a typo on Apple's PowerMac page: go to http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html and look down at the "Connect with S-video and RCA (composite) connectors" section at the bottom right; it allows you to preview your "wok"
-is this some sort of new Chinese translation device? ;)
That is odd that they have a typo. I guess it shows no one is perfect.

Is the RCA and S-video only out or in and out?

[EdSchouten]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Actually, 10 bels would be a 1024 fold increase in power. Logarithms are pretty impressive.

Why the confusion? Well, the loudest non-harmful sound level is regarded as being around 110 dB, while the lowest audible sound is defined as 4 dB. That range represents a difference in power output of 40,000,000,000:1. Since those numbers are kind of bulky, this way makes sense.

0 db - the quietest sound you can hear
20 db - whisper
35 db - new dual Power Mac 2ghz
50 db - rainfall
60 db - conversational speech
75 db - washing machine
85 db - big city traffic
90 db - hair dryer
100 db - tractor in use
110 db - chainsaw, rock concert
120 db - jack hammer, ambulance siren
130 db - jet aircraft from 100 feet away
140 db - gun shot, fireworks
175 db - rocket launch

Anything over 180 (or so) db is considered a sonic weapon.

-Richard
All the values you gave were dbA. A human CAN't hear 0 db. The lowest value a human can hear is around 25-35 db.

The PowerMac isn't as loud as rainfall :o

[fpnc]

Originally posted by tjwett
New PowerMacs are lacking an L3 Cache. I just noticed this. Does this matter, or is this new system not in need of it?

Originally posted by hacurio1
I think this is an issue only on G4s because they lack a wide enough bus. I'm not sure, can someone post a technical link that answers this?

The PPC970 (G5) doesn't support L3 caches. However, you can be fairly certain that the next generation of the G5 (whether that be a process shrink or PPC980) will include a larger L2 cache.

[daedelgt]

Originally posted by EdSchouten
All the values you gave were dbA. A human CAN't hear 0 db. The lowest value a human can hear is around 25-35 db.

The PowerMac isn't as loud as rainfall :o

It was based on the lowest sound we could here.

[Brother Mugga]

Just doing my bit for British culture, mate.

I was actually over in NY a couple of years ago (looking to teach in Franklin K. Lane High School (Queens/Brooklyn) in fact) and you'd have delighted in my efforts at asking for directions.

God only knows how I eventually made it to 'Gravesend' (I'm from Gravesend in England, so I thought I'd pop down to see what your version was like) but I sure wished I *was* a character out of Lock-stock once I got there.

JJJJeeeeeesh!

Although trying to finish a 'medium' sub was actually more scary than the sound of gunfire from Coney Island, to be honest.

Needless to say, I'm looking to try again next year.


And before someone flames me, I know this has bugger all to do with macs, but DTPhonehome and I are intent upon making the world a better, more loving place through sensitive and meaningful cultural interaction.

So you can take your flame and shove it right up your ar...


Brother Mugga

[Frohickey]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Funny aside: During the keynote, the live news report at macnn.com (http://www.macnn.com/)had a tiny off-by-a-factor-of-1024 typo: It said (bold is mine) Models start at 1.6MHz ($2000, GF FX5200, 256MB of RAM), 1.8GHz (double memory, double disk, $2399) and dual 2.0GHz ($2999, Radeon 9600 Pro).

To be accurate, thats a factor of 1000 typo. MHz and GHz are metric. MB and GB are power of 2s.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by EdSchouten
All the values you gave were dbA. A human CAN't hear 0 db. The lowest value a human can hear is around 25-35 db.

The PowerMac isn't as loud as rainfall :o Those numbers were from the commonly quoted decibel scale, as referenced on places like http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm. The A scale (dbA) refers to to slow response, in other words measuring peaks averaged several times a second rather than pure peaks, and is normally a truer scale of ongoing noise. At least, that's how I understand it.

-Richard

ps: it seems that that's how orgs like OSHA (http://osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9735&p_text_version=FALSE) understand it too. If I'm wrong, please tell me, as I'd like to know.

[phampton81]

As acj said 3 dB is a doubling of sound power.

[icsedge1]

Hum...

The new machines will be in stores September 1? That is my birthday...maybe you all should get together and buy me one!

Otherwise I'll be waiting for Rev. 2....but still, it's good to be back on top.

Sedge

[Cubeboy]

Apple's definitely has some very impressive systems now, Hypertransport interconnects, PCI-X, 400 MHz 128 bit Memory, nearly all the rumored features are on these machines. I'll probably get the mid-range system myself.

The Single CPU SPECmarks presented are amazingly accurate, if any of you remember IBM's original specmarks for the 1.8 GHz PPC970, you'll notice that it scored lower than the 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 on SPECint but higher on SPECfp, it's pretty reasonable to assume that a 2.0 GHz PPC970 will perform similarly against a Pentium 4 3.06 Ghz, which was exactly the case.

I'll estimate SPECmarks for Pentium 4s with 800 Mhz buses using the GCC compiler in a later post.

The one fishy aspect of Apple's use of SPECmarks was with the Dual Xeon's SPEC rates. At 3.06 Ghz, a Dual Xeon system would score 19-23 on depending on the compiler, this includes GCC compilers like the ones Apple used. Apple's own score is less than half of that which is to say the least, suspicious.

I would also wait for some actual real world benchmarks come out from some credible site (barefeats, mac speed zone, reputable pc review sites etc), Apple doesn't have a pretty history of using these real world benchmarks in a credible way.

[Moe]

An X db increase in audio power (sound pressure level) is 10^.X increase in power. A 3db increase is twice the power, a 6db increase is four times the power, etc. Audio power also falls off with the square of the increase in distance. A 70db measurement at one meter will drop 6db (1/4) down to 64db at two meters. Without knowing the distance at which the decibel rating is specified, you know nothing about the volume.

It is generally considered that the smallest change in audio power detectable by human hearing is about 3db, or a doubling of the audio power. It is also considered that a 10db increase, or 10 times the audio power, is perceived as twice as loud.

But even that's not the end of it. Human hearing is more sensitive in certain frequency ranges than others, so the same increase in audio power will be perceived differently at different frequencies.

And that's still not the end of it. Certain waveform shapes are more perceptable than others.

Noise db ratings can be misleading, and a device rated at a lower level may actually be more intrusive.

[andrewlandry]

i couldn't have asked for more. go Apple!

[Macmaniac]

There goes my college savings, I have got to have one!!! 8 GiG that thing will rip through Doom 3 (Please)
Maybe they will be nice and offer big discounts of displays when you buy one:)

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by icsedge1
Hum...

The new machines will be in stores September 1? That is my birthday...maybe you all should get together and buy me one!

Otherwise I'll be waiting for Rev. 2....but still, it's good to be back on top.

Sedge
The machines won't be in stores until some time in September. Pre Orders will ship in August.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Java
Oh my *$#!

8 gigs?!? And Steve says you can transfer a whole DVD in one second.

My jaw is on the floor. Wow Wow Wow Wow!:eek:

Yeah, kinda cool. The entire contents of memory can be loaded into the CPU and written back out again in 2 seconds.

But note that you still won't be reading a DVD in the drive that fast ... you can only do it in one second if the contents of the disk are in system memory ... and forgive me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't apply to dual-layer disks, which are >8GB large ...

[windwaves]

I had never seen Apple news making it to CNN's web page. And in the top stories...
may be it truly is great what we saw today, even though some of those benchmarks (the integer ones) did not impress me

[Peter3210]

Originally posted by Moe
Without knowing the distance at which the decibel rating is specified, you know nothing about the volume.


Apple says that the G5 is three times quieter than the G4. It is almost certain that these measurements were made at equal distances from the machines.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/design.html

Therefore one does not need the G5 decibel measurements to appreciate the power level of its output sound. Your other points are well taken. We'll just have to wait and listen for when the G5's are available for live testing. I'll be buying one with at least a 10 day return policy -- just in case the sound quality isn't what I'm expecting.

[evolu]

Using IBM from now on will finally relieve us of that motorola LAG in updates. I suspect they will be more reliable/frequent. So strange (and such a relief) to hear stevie talk about a future product (3GHz chip).

Crazy times friends. We've caught up in terms of speed and power. Windoze will never catch up in OS. Let the bragging begin.

[technocoy]

most everyone here, before the leaked specs, were expecting at the fastest a 1.8 ghz chip in these bad boys. Apple has cancelled out the mhz gap, and still you piss-ant's are not happy. they have gone and given you above and beyond what you would have expected without the leak, and still you piss-ants gripe. they frickin' gave you OPTICAL input and output audio for CHRIST SAKE, and still you PISS ANTS GRIPE!!! I, as a designer LOVE the new case design, as it moves to accomodate the heat issues in a more effecient way, as well as looking modern and very zen-like in the process, but no. "wheres my fold down door!" boo hoo. you do noot know what apple engineers had to do to fit everything into the box... none of us do, but the simple fact remains that they have given REAL MAC LOVERS what they wanted and then some. "but technocoy, i want it all to kick a PC's ass and cost me only $750" shut the hell up and go buy your damn dell you yap about so much and let us mac users who appreciate something from time-to-time enjoy the day that steve jobs hath brought us. By GOD this is the best DAY IN APPLE HISTORY!!!! anyone who doesn't think so can GO TO HELL!!!!!!

sorry i could go on and on, but i will spare the good people my wrath for now

a literally cried i was so happy that not one PC user can say CRAP to me today. You are ALL DUMBFOUNDED!

good day,
technocoy:)

[hacurio1]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Speed is very comparable in recent benchmarks. Don't have the numbers in front of me, but its a few percent here or there, nothing you're likely to notice in real-world use. Maybe you will be willing to answer my question then (since nobody else has). What, on a system like this with Firewire, 802.11g, etc, built in, do you need more than 3 PCI-X slots for? I really am curious.

-Richard

Ok, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, Just MHO. I will try to answer your question the best way I can. When I bought my current system (Dual 500) three years ago, the four PCI slots weren’t an issue; though, as time progressed I had the need to upgrade the system. For example, a SCSI card that I use to connect some legacy hardware like my scanner, my Zip drive, and some HDs uses one port, another port is used by my ATA 133 RAID controller that I had to buy because the onboard ATA 66 was not fast enough, another port is used by the USB 2.0 firewire combo card that I bought to connect some new cameras, and finally, the fourth port is used by an upgraded sound card. When I bough the machine, the four PCIs where more than enough, but as time progresses, PCIs will allow you to extent the life and functionality of a computer. I know the new PowerMacs have everything one can wish for, but when one buys a computer, it’s usually a three year purchase; more over, there is a pretty good chance that you will need to upgrade by using PCIs. I think 3 PCI slots are good, but I’m concerned to whether it will be sufficient or not. I’m not saying 3 are not enough, but it concerns me. Other than that, I REALLY LOVE THE NEW PMs

[centauratlas]

The longer Apple waits to update the 15" PB, the more likely it will be a G5 for lots of reasons.

1. The 12" (or perhaps the 17") motherboard could fit in the 15" case, so from a tech standpoint, I can't see the motherboard design being 6+ months behind that of the 12" (or 17"), it would be nearly impossible to be that far behind.

2. Steve wants to be the first to ship a 64 bit portable. (No one is closer than Apple now).

3. Bluetooth, AirPort Extreme. Plenty of people want those in a portable, but don't want a 12" screen or a 17" screen. (me for one :-) ).

All this points to the fact that something significant is going on. It is something like the G5 or, perhaps, a higher-density screen. I doubt it would be the higher-density screen because that should NOT be that huge a tech issue, and I can't believe they'd delay the product 6+ months for that when they could've shipped it with a regular screen and then updated it now.

My scenario about the 15" delays is this:
They intentionally held back on the 15" in Jan/Feb 2003 and kept it as it was so that if there were huge problems with the 12" and 17" (e.g. long(er) delays, engineering/manuf issues etc) they'd have a proven machine that was shipping. They were planning that the PB 15 was supposed to be updated in May at WWDC with a G5 (or very shortly thereafter) and so didn't waste any design and engineering resources on updating it to the specs of the current 12" and 15" because (back then it would have been May 2003 for WWDC, so only about 3 months wait for it). They intended to make it the 1st 15" G5 and have it ready with the PM G5s.

However, they are a little behind for some reason, just like they were with the PM G5s - that's why they pushed back WWDC a month.

Until they know when they can ship them in volume they're not announcing it for at least two reasons: avoid killing 12", 15" and 17" sales; and so they'll get even more bang for the buck when the announce "the world's first 64-bit portable," just like they got with the "world's 1st 17 inch portable". It will be on its own and won't get overshadowed by the PM G5s.

Face it, Apple loses sales because of some of the factors above and they don't want to lose sales. Therefore there is some BIG reason for the delay. The only logical one is a 15" PB G5, followed as quickly thereafter as possible with a 17" ("The world's 1st 64-bit 17 inch portable) and a 12" ("The world's smallest 64-bit portable). Followed thereafter by G4 iBooks.

I can see a 15" PB G5 announcement within 1-3 months (e.g. by the end of the summer). Apple *has* to do something to update the 15" PB to current specs (speed, AEX, Bluetooth) and if they've invested engineering in the PB G5 they don't have time to go back and do the engineering to make it a G4 - which is why I think it will be soon. If it was going to be > 3 months then they'd have time to do a 15" G4 to match the 17", BUT then they would've done it well before now.

I don't think it is wishful thinking because Apple is not dumb. They wouldn't hold up 15" PB sales for more than 6 months without a great reason. (Plus I read somewhere that 15" PB supplies were low.)

[scan300]

Originally posted by tpjunkie
If decibels are a logarithmic scale, a 10 decibel increas would mean a 10 fold increase in volume, wouldn't it?

The decibel scale was formulated to give meaning to the way we perceive sound with respect to actual atmospheric pressure fluctuations.

It is based on the threshhold of hearing whith is measured at about 2x10^-5 newtons per meter squared at 1000 Hz. This is 0 dB. The upper limit of hearing is aproximately 1 million times greater in pressure, this is about 120 dB.

The way our ears percieve sound is not linear like the sound output out of a stereo. The ears respond in a non-linear fashion. Most of the scale is taken up with what we cope with normally 0-100 dB. The intolerable aspect of the scale takes up typically 100 - 120 dB. Beyond that the decibel scale is pointless even though sound pressure levels can go much higher.

Some examples: Soundproof studio: 20 db, Bedroom at night 30 db, Normal conversation at 1metre 60dB, a big truck at 15m 90db.

Sound perception though is more complicated when you throw in frequency and distance. The human ear will percieve the same sound pressure level at different frequencies as either louder or softer. Taking a step forward or back can change your perception depending on your distance from the source and it's sound intensity level.

So measuring loudness with an instrument which measures pressure must take into account a range of frequencies and distance from the source and map them to what's relevant to the ear. There are different weightings: (A,B,C) so you will see measurements listed as dbA or dbC.

[benoda]

Although the new Powermacs are VERY impressive and long overdue, I'd have to say I'm a little let down by the keynote.

"Year of the laptop" yet he just glossed over the powerbooks (read old 15" design.) 80% of what he was talking about not shipping for another 2 months. Hmmmm....just don't know about that.

ehhh - just my opinion. maybe too much hype :)

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by rjstanford
I just want to add my voice to those talking about Sun / HP workstations being the true targets of the new PowerMac line. And its about time. When you figure that for under $7000 you can pick up a fully loaded dual G5 with 4gb (alright, so I used Crucial pricing here), APP, iSight, a 23" flatscreen, and oh what the heck the 5.1 speaker set, that's some mighty fierce competition.

ps: Now, if they'd just get autoCad for OS X, and some of the other apps like it .. whoo!


Is the G5 rackable out of the box?

Rocketman

[williwilli]

I thought it was interesting that the G5 is taller than the G4 so I made a size comparison image:

http://www.sejus.com/earth2willi/forums/viewtopic.php?p=766#766

download some music and stuff while you are there! :cool:

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by hacurio1
Ok, don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, Just MHO. I will try to answer your question the best way I can. When I bought my current system (Dual 500) three years ago, the four PCI slots weren’t an issue; though, as time progressed I had the need to upgrade the system. For example, a SCSI card that I use to connect some legacy hardware like my scanner, my Zip drive, and some HDs uses one port, another port is used by my ATA 133 RAID controller that I had to buy because the onboard ATA 66 was not fast enough, another port is used by the USB 2.0 firewire combo card that I bought to connect some new cameras, and finally, the fourth port is used by an upgraded sound card. When I bough the machine, the four PCIs where more than enough, but as time progresses, PCIs will allow you to extent the life and functionality of a computer. I know the new PowerMacs have everything one can wish for, but when one buys a computer, it’s usually a three year purchase; more over, there is a pretty good chance that you will need to upgrade by using PCIs. I think 3 PCI slots are good, but I’m concerned to whether it will be sufficient or not. I’m not saying 3 are not enough, but it concerns me. Other than that, I REALLY LOVE THE NEW PMs That makes sense, I guess that I see things like the built in FireWire 800 and USB 2.0 as reducing the need for pure internal card slots when interfacing to other systems. Interestingly enough, everything in your list seemed to fit this category, except the RAID card :-)

Thanks for the response, by the way. Many people have griped about the 3 slots, and you're the only one to actually talk about needing more than that!

-Richard

[artmc]

Originally posted by rjwill246
..........Speaking of which, ZD Net has posted two Wintel articles today, one about P4s (now that's excitement!!!!) and the other about a Microsoft pathway. Who cares??
Nothing about WWDC.

Try the following:

News.com Front Page (http://news.com.com/)

I count 5 Mac articles/video feeds on the front page. Not really that shabby. More would be better, but not bad coverage.




* art *

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by Rocketman
Is the G5 rackable out of the box?Nope, and its too talk to fit easily as well. But I'm assuming that the same tech will make its way into the XServe pretty darn quiclky, which Apple has previously pushed to fill this market. And let's face it, a 1U rack unit is much nicer than a converted power mac :-)

-Richard

[Vlade]

Originally posted by idkew
yeah- i'm wondering about the g6.

this g5 really doesn't impress me very much.

only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus. only 8gb ram? sheesh. apple really isn't working too hard anymore.

I think you mean 600% :)

[Paul Turpin]

quote:
Overall, the only issue for me is the presence of only 3 PCI-X slots. Oh well, perhaps Rev B.
Maybe you will be willing to answer my question then (since nobody else has). What, on a system like this with Firewire, 802.11g, etc, built in, do you need more than 3 PCI-X slots for? I really am curious.


Me ? Well for Digidesign Pro Tools. Myself and lots of other audio professionals need PCI slots for our current generation of DSP cards that are required for ProTools TDM operation. I have two rooms, each with a G4 and 3 Digidesign PCI Cards in them. The maximum number of cards in a ProTools rig is more like 7. So if I want more power I am currently forced to go to an expansion chassis - something I loathe. Lots of ProTools guys still rely on SCSI as well - not just for drives but for backup tape drives and the like. Sure, we could replace everything with state of the art firewire800 and S-ATA drives - but we already own this stuff and would like to use it (and will be spending lots of money on G5's anyway!). PLUS - I'd like to drop a Fibre channel board in too.

Now - I sure hope Digidesign will come out with PCI-X cards that are twice as powerful - but in Pro Audio land there is plenty of room for growth and we need all the DSP we can get. Even with redesigned cards, we will want more than three slots.

Now, an apple designed & branded, rack mounted PCI-X slot expansion chassis that was 100% compatible with no speed hits - that would be good - and might go along with flexibility for Xserves (maybe?).

[MhzDoesMatter]

Originally posted by ddtlm
Lokii:


Apple couldn't release the iMac with a G5 any time soon even if they wanted to. They just don't have enough engineers to redesign and test all their hardware so quickly. The G5 iMac will only happen after the Xserve and AluBooks go G5. I'm guessing at least a year and a half before there is any real chance of a G5 iMac. In the mean time, Apple can use faster 7455's and 7457's.

PowerBook User:


I'd give this a 0% chance of happening.


All of that doesn't sound as much like an educated guess as you might have intended. We're clearly not fully aware of what Apple's staff is capable of. Apple and IBM have been working with this chip for a while now and who knows what applications of the technology Apple has been working on internally and for how long. They could have G5 revisions of any (or every) product ready to go at the next expo, special event, or 2nd Thursday.

People have expectations built upon what we think we know about Apple, Steven Jobs, and computers in general. We're still basing speculation on things Apple has traditionally done in the past and previous business habits, habits that they've clearly left behind judging by the sheer greatness of the technology released today, anti-apple design elements, and the fact that they're this much closer to actually publishing a roadmap.

-Hertz

[geerlingguy]

What's up with Apple making the new computers start at 2k? My dad would like to purchase a computer, and will spend no more than $1700; I was telling him about how cool these new PMacs would be, had him hooked, but now will have to try new tactics. I know that Steve wants a smaller amount of products on the market, but what about another stab at a cube-like Mac:

1.6Ghz PPC 970
80GB ATA/133 Hard drive (w/ room for 1 or 2 more)
1/2 PCI Slot(s)
256MB RAM (up to 4GB)
GeForce 4 MX 32MB AGP 4X
Combo Drive w/ BTO SuperDrive
Optional Bluetooth & AP Extreme
$1399-$1599

This would satisfy people like my Dad who want a nice computer with more expandability than an iMac, but not as costly as a new PMac

[PowerBook User]

Originally posted by Paul Turpin
Me ? Well for Digidesign Pro Tools. Myself and lots of other audio professionals need PCI slots for our current generation of DSP cards that are required for ProTools TDM operation. I have two rooms, each with a G4 and 3 Digidesign PCI Cards in them. The maximum number of cards in a ProTools rig is more like 7. So if I want more power I am currently forced to go to an expansion chassis - something I loathe. Lots of ProTools guys still rely on SCSI as well - not just for drives but for backup tape drives and the like. Sure, we could replace everything with state of the art firewire800 and S-ATA drives - but we already own this stuff and would like to use it (and will be spending lots of money on G5's anyway!). PLUS - I'd like to drop a Fibre channel board in too.

Now - I sure hope Digidesign will come out with PCI-X cards that are twice as powerful - but in Pro Audio land there is plenty of room for growth and we need all the DSP we can get. Even with redesigned cards, we will want more than three slots.

Now, an apple designed & branded, rack mounted PCI-X slot expansion chassis that was 100% compatible with no speed hits - that would be good - and might go along with flexibility for Xserves (maybe?).
I think I heard somewhere that a lot of pro audio people are still using Power Mac 9600's because of the 6 PCI slots. Is that true?

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by technocoy
most everyone here, before the leaked specs, were expecting at the fastest a 1.8 ghz chip in these bad boys. Apple has cancelled out the mhz gap, and still you piss-ant's are not happy. they have gone and given you above and beyond what you would have expected without the leak, and still you piss-ants gripe. they frickin' gave you OPTICAL input and output audio for CHRIST SAKE, and still you PISS ANTS GRIPE!!! I, as a designer LOVE the new case design, as it moves to accomodate the heat issues in a more effecient way, as well as looking modern and very zen-like in the process, but no. "wheres my fold down door!" boo hoo. you do noot know what apple engineers had to do to fit everything into the box... none of us do, but the simple fact remains that they have given REAL MAC LOVERS what they wanted and then some. "but technocoy, i want it all to kick a PC's ass and cost me only $750" shut the hell up and go buy your damn dell you yap about so much and let us mac users who appreciate something from time-to-time enjoy the day that steve jobs hath brought us. By GOD this is the best DAY IN APPLE HISTORY!!!! anyone who doesn't think so can GO TO HELL!!!!!!

sorry i could go on and on, but i will spare the good people my wrath for now

a literally cried i was so happy that not one PC user can say CRAP to me today. You are ALL DUMBFOUNDED!

good day,
technocoy:)

WORD!

[frozenstar]

Bring back the Intel snail advertisement!

[cooper13]

Looks like Steve and Apple have overcompensated for last week's little leak. Check out the Apple store right now--get your new Power Mac G5 with dual 1.42 GHz G4 processors!

<edit> I tried to attach the screenshot as a jpeg but I'm having trouble figuring it out... d'oh! :confused: </edit>

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by PowerBook User
I think I heard somewhere that a lot of pro audio people are still using Power Mac 9600's because of the 6 PCI slots. Is that true?

NOT TRUE... Actually the Mac recommended by Digidesign (ProTools) is the Quickslver running 10.2.... 3 open slots are more than enough for audio. Figure graphics card, SCSI card, MIDI audio card... It used to be a lot more difficult, and you needed more slots... Not anymore! Especially using ProTools HD systems - all of the 'plug-ins' go through those....

[MhzDoesMatter]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
Well, I've finally read up on all the features, etc. of the new G5s, and here's what I have to say:

1) The speed is great, even on the single proc machines

2) I wish more expansion was available; in my G4 w/ Gigabit & AGP, I have four 120GB hard drives installed now (can't do that in a new G5... :mad: ? also the one optical drive - this is something that peecee lovers always grill us Mac users on (come on Apple!)

3) The case is neat; I LOVE the front ports (right now I always have to reach around to the back of my computer to connect my FireWire hard drive and video camera)

4) Pricing could be better; the computers are faster and better than PCs, but not enough to warrant an extra thousand bucks for the system (most PC users don't use the SPDIF optical audio or Gigabit ethernet, anyway)

Also, I've found a typo on Apple's PowerMac page: go to http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics.html and look down at the "Connect with S-video and RCA (composite) connectors" section at the bottom right; it allows you to preview your "wok"
-is this some sort of new Chinese translation device? ;)

So you're mad because Apple has now enabled you two have slightly more storage than before with half the whirring of hard drive platters causing your house to vibrate?

I understand now. Thank you.

-Hertz

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by frozenstar
Bring back the Intel snail advertisement!
I would LOVE to see that again!;)

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
What's up with Apple making the new computers start at 2k? My dad would like to purchase a computer, and will spend no more than $1700; I was telling him about how cool these new PMacs would be, had him hooked, but now will have to try new tactics. I know that Steve wants a smaller amount of products on the market, but what about another stab at a cube-like Mac:

1.6Ghz PPC 970
80GB ATA/133 Hard drive (w/ room for 1 or 2 more)
1/2 PCI Slot(s)
256MB RAM (up to 4GB)
GeForce 4 MX 32MB AGP 4X
Combo Drive w/ BTO SuperDrive
Optional Bluetooth & AP Extreme
$1399-$1599

This would satisfy people like my Dad who want a nice computer with more expandability than an iMac, but not as costly as a new PMac Don't know if it helps a lot, but dropping to a combo drive on the 1.6 model drops it to $1799

[KEL9000]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
What's up with Apple making the new computers start at 2k? My dad would like to purchase a computer, and will spend no more than $1700; I was telling him about how cool these new PMacs would be, had him hooked, but now will have to try new tactics. I know that Steve wants a smaller amount of products on the market, but what about another stab at a cube-like Mac:

1.6Ghz PPC 970
80GB ATA/133 Hard drive (w/ room for 1 or 2 more)
1/2 PCI Slot(s)
256MB RAM (up to 4GB)
GeForce 4 MX 32MB AGP 4X
Combo Drive w/ BTO SuperDrive
Optional Bluetooth & AP Extreme
$1399-$1599

This would satisfy people like my Dad who want a nice computer with more expandability than an iMac, but not as costly as a new PMac

http://www.2khappyware.com/

[SubGothius]

Originally posted by geerlingguy
What's up with Apple making the new computers start at 2k? My dad would like to purchase a computer, and will spend no more than $1700; I was telling him about how cool these new PMacs would be, had him hooked, but now will have to try new tactics...

Delete-option the SuperDrive for a Combo Drive instead on the base model, and bingo, there's yr dad's price point.

Only too happy to help a fella score a new G5 at his folx expense... :D

[Gymnut]

Originally posted by idkew
yeah- i'm wondering about the g6.

this g5 really doesn't impress me very much.

only 1,000mhz system bus? that is only a ~60% jump from my 166mhz bus. only 8gb ram? sheesh. apple really isn't working too hard anymore.

You say ONLY 8GB Ram? I've maxxed out my ram on my Dual 1Ghz MDD. That's like saying a dodge viper ONLY pumps out 500 ponies. Sheesh.

[MacFan25]

Wow, 2.0 Ghz! I'm glad that macs are finally faster than PC's. I don't really think that the prices are too bad on them. Considering what you are getting, I think they are a pretty good value.

As for the case design, I think it looks really nice. It's simple, yet powerful looking.

I hope that Apple and IBM continue to maintain a good relationship. :)

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Show me a FibreChannel port on that new Powermac and I'll agree with you.

GOOD POINT!!!! Not that most of us need that, though! Maybe in a future revision?

[sedarby]

Originally posted by czardmitri
Anyone else notice that the pix of the g5 all look like 3-d renders, not actual photos? What the...? Also, what IS in those purported boxes at the Apple stores that said "don't open until June 23"?
Perhaps it was the new PowerMac G4's. Single and dual 1.25's which boot both OS X and OS 9.

[Mike Teezie]

Hot damn....I said HOT DAMN what a keynote!!!

Wow - I definitely dig the new G5 case. What's inside ain't too shabby either! I had to watch the keynote from the stream, but it was great! I laughed at myself afterwards - because everytime Steve showed something new (Panther, iSight, G5) I said out loud, "HOLY ******! I am DEFINITELY getting that!!":D

I have a quick question though - in a few days, I'm aquiring a 22" Apple Display through a trade. I have a Powerbook now, and I know I need the adapter to use it, which is what I will do till G5 time. I won't be able to afford a G5 until around October or November. I'll still be able to use the 22" display for my G5 then won't I?

Sorry if this is lame. I'm still new to Apple, and I don't know crap about the displays. I know the 22" is older, I'm just making sure I don't make a stupid trade for the display if it won't work.

Sorry to hijack this thread - what an awesome day!!!

[jessefoxperry]

hey what happend to #macrumors chat? that was pretty cool! BTW, good job today steve

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by macgraphicgirl
... mainly because it's not all that new. Not terribly innovative by any stretch. Looks like something out of an early 90's rack system. Maybe the G5 looks better up close, I don't know. Looking at it, I have this feeling that I've just been given a luscious steak dinner presented to me on a garbage can lid. I mean, all that innovation and total coolness inside that box!! I'm disappointed that they couldn't come up with a better case design than that -- and to throw away the hinged side just seems like a big backwards step. Based on the deafening silence in the room when they finally showed the photo of the new G5, I'm guessing I wasn't alone.

Do you think that perhaps this might be just the phase-one design, the way they did with the original beige G4? Perhaps another design is coming?

JMHO, please don't shoot me. :)

Original beige G3!!! Important distinction... I actually rather like it!;)

[Rai]

ooooo i'm so happy....... don't know where to begin.....hmmm

First i would like to thank macrumors.com, i first came to this site for info on up coming new ipod. You guys where dead right about that and the itunes store. After getting my new ipod, and being so happy with it, i stuck around here, (even thou a windows users), to see what else mac had to offer.

second i would like to thanks that french site, mac biol...(whatever), i know there was some questions about some program not supporting dual proccessors, but all i know they said

There would be a new kickass machine released at the conf, that was better than wintels. And apple released the G5, which kicks serious ass. That is accurate enough for me.:D


Well, I will no longer be a wintel users, as soon as they start shipping those dual 2.0 G5. Can't wait to start playing around with it.

It wasn't just the specs that impressed me. I know some are saying opteron might be faster. But after watching the keynotes demonstration. Apple got one thing across to me,

This machine is fastest enough to handle anything I need to do, at a unbelievable fast pace.

Thats good enough for me, don't mind if some server proccessor might be slightly faster, good for them, they not running that cool panther OS they demoed.

But that OS loooks so nice. Video conf, idisk as like a network hardrive. The thing with the all the programs moving around......
.... I like:D, Rather than 1984 george orwell future of longhorn.

LONG LIVE APPLE

down with the empire Microsoft

The force is with us.....

[MhzDoesMatter]

Originally posted by VIREBEL661
GOOD POINT!!!! Not that most of us need that, though! Maybe in a future revision?

But wasn't there a question about whether that port was fiber channel or optical in/out? I do remember optical coming up before. Whoever had that one sure guessed well/lucky or might have had an accurate source.

-Hertz

[fef]

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
I just don't understand why Apple decided to take a significant step backwards, especially since PowerMacs have been designed to easily handle more than 2 hard drives since the revision B Blue & White's.

Less than a year ago, PowerMacs came with 40GB HDs... that's 4 times less than the 1.8 Ghz PowerMac G5 which comes with a 160GB HD... and you can even install a second one!

Please compare: 2 HD X 160GB vs. 4 HD X 40 GB... or vs. 1 X 60 GB + 3 X 80 or... (do any combination you like)

Get the point? You don't need more than 2 HD bays anymore...

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by beatle888
go home contempt....just because the single processors arent as fast as the duals no one should buy them? go smoke another bowl. anyway, anyone who talks **** about these systems are worse off than i am when it comes to being negative. this is a great day, enjoy it while it lasts.

Totally agree... What, are there people working for m$ on these boards??? GO AWAY - we're Mac enthusiasts, thank you very much!

[illumin8]

Originally posted by tjwett
New PowerMacs are lacking an L3 Cache. I just noticed this. Does this matter, or is this new system not in need of it? The G4s needed it, as the FSB of the processor was too slow to feed it adequately. Now that the FSB is 1ghz., accessing memory is almost as fast as accessing L3 cache, so there's really no need for an L3 cache.

[illumin8]

Originally posted by Flowbee
Half the audible volume is not the same as half the decibels. Decibels are measured on a proportional scale (which I don't remember the specifics of).
If I remember correctly, every 6 db is twice the volume. I also believe that normal background noise for a "quiet room" is 40db, which should make this new PowerMac virtually silent. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Abstract]

Originally posted by VIREBEL661
Soooooo... MacBidioulle was RIGHT pretty much, right???? They must have some great sources!!!

Remember that little french guy he talked to with iChat AV? That little snitch. :p

And with specs the way they are, who actually wants the 1.6 and 1.8GHz models? They look seriously outclassed by the dual 2.0GHz machines. If the other 2 machines were dual proc as well, then okay, the price is cool. But wow, I would pay $1500 for the low end 1.6GHz machine, or $2000 for a DUAL 1.6GHz machine, but definitely not for a single proc. They should have put more thought into the pricing. The 1.6 and 1.8GHz machines aren't worth it, while the 2.0GHz machine is the only one priced fairly, in my opinion. Actually, the dual 2.0GHz is perfect.

[crazytom]

...and good innovation, too. But I just got my Dual 1GHz MDD last year and will need to wait a couple of years before I can afford to upgrade again...

btw: Why did they just compare specs of Apples to Intels? Why not Apples to Apples? How much faster is the Dual 2GHz than the Dual 1.42GHz? I want to see THOSE specs!

[billyboy]

This is very clever stuff by Apple. The guns will be out to blow holes in Powermacs and Panther - as they have been demoed now. Five months later its Xmas sales time, the modifications will have been done to account for the gripes, and bang, a more powerful Powermac and a more polished Panther are re-presented to the world.

Love it.

[illumin8]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Show me a FibreChannel port on that new Powermac and I'll agree with you.
It's pretty obvious that they mistook the TOSLINK digital audio in and out ports for Fibrechannel. They didn't even say fibrechannel, just said something like "it looks like some kind of fibre connection", which is totally correct if they didn't know what a TOSLINK connection looked like.

I think MacBidoullie was spot on, except for the fact that the machines aren't available right away like they predicted.

[beatle888]

Originally posted by frozenstar
Bring back the Intel snail advertisement!

i love the panther / longhorn footage :D

[illumin8]

Originally posted by Cubeboy
The one fishy aspect of Apple's use of SPECmarks was with the Dual Xeon's SPEC rates. At 3.06 Ghz, a Dual Xeon system would score 19-23 on depending on the compiler, this includes GCC compilers like the ones Apple used. Apple's own score is less than half of that which is to say the least, suspicious.

I believe this is because Apple used GCC on the Intel platforms, where if you look at the real SPEC benchmarks as posted on Ars Technica, the Intel platforms used the Intel C Compiler, which is optimized for Intel. Thus, the difference in performance...

But hey, the Steve Jobs RDF is in full effect.

I still would love to have a 2.0 ghz. machine... The "real-world" benchmarks were great.

[macsrule89]

first off id like to say thankyou god
secondly i was wondering if i buy a dual 2 ghz will i be abe to update it to a 3ghz when it comes out either way august is my birthday thats one hell of a present



ps did ne1 else noticed the dual 1.42 g4s are gone from the apple store

[sonicbaz]

Anyone know much about the RAM? Anything special about it that would stop me buying 3rd party 3200 DIMMS?

G5 Exciting news too, as a PC Logic Plat 5.51 user I am blown away by the performance and see this box as 'the' box to get as a producer etc I am definatley swapping ASAP to LAP 6 - 115 Plat Verbs is just amazing -

In terms of PCI slots I like the fact that they are 64bit on the higher end machines. I am currently running a UAD and could imagine once the drivers are released for OS X I will have 3 of them in those PCI slots.

OMG Digidesign must be going poo poo in their pants...

Baz

[mkaake]

hey, do you think someone should send moto a note to let them know?

matt


p.s. sorry if someone made this joke already! didn't have time to read 9+ pages!

matt

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by fef
Less than a year ago, PowerMacs came with 40GB HDs... that's 4 times less than the 1.8 Ghz PowerMac G5 which comes with a 160GB HD... and you can even install a second one!

Please compare: 2 HD X 160GB vs. 4 HD X 40 GB... or vs. 1 X 60 GB + 3 X 80 or... (do any combination you like)

Get the point? You don't need more than 2 HD bays anymore...


YOU might not need more than 2 HDDs but other people do. When I saw that you could only add 1 extra HDD internally that made me go Hmmm... and brought a slight frown to my face. Because when you work w/video storing a/v files on the same HDD as your OS and apps is a big no no. So the new PM will only give me 1 internal HDD to store my media on. While not a huge deal it is a bit annoying because it will force people to use external storage. And currently NO FW HDDs are offically "supported" by Apple for FCP, although the vast majority of external FW dirve users have no problems.

Since Apple took away 1 optical bay and 2 HDD bays I wish they would have given us more FW I/O's to make up for it. Maybe 3 FW 400, and 2 FW800 or something.

I'm a bit dissapointed w/the expandiblity of the G5 right out of the box, but overall I am very excited about the new Mac as a whole. :)


Lethal

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by sonicbaz
Anyone know much about the RAM? Anything special about it that would stop me buying 3rd party 3200 DIMMS?

G5 Exciting news too, as a PC Logic Plat 5.51 user I am blown away by the performance and see this box as 'the' box to get as a producer etc I am definatley swapping ASAP to LAP 6 - 115 Plat Verbs is just amazing -

In terms of PCI slots I like the fact that they are 64bit on the higher end machines. I am currently running a UAD and could imagine once the drivers are released for OS X I will have 3 of them in those PCI slots.

OMG Digidesign must be going poo poo in their pants...

Baz You probably have to buy them in matched pairs, though the documents that give specifics much beyond that have not been posted yet. (unless I missed a document or two.)

[jaison13]

does anyone else think that by the looks of the tower with mesh front and back and 7? fans that this chip ain't working in a powerbook. iy would catch on fire. i think a lot of work is still needed o make a G5 powerbook.

[PretendPCuser]

Originally posted by jwtillema
My brother has been using my G4 for a few weeks, and loves it more and more. But his upper lip curled when he saw what he'd have to pay to get started with a mac.

I'd sell mine for around what you quote your AMD machine at.

There's other alternatives. Meaning there's going to be plenty of people rolling their dualies to save for this machine. Tell your bro to buy used!!

On the other hand, this new hardware is just going to be SO worth it!!!

[pianojoe]

Originally posted by mustang_dvs
I really could care less about the looks of the G5 (though I question the ergonomics of getting rid of the mobo hinge) -- what bothers me is the apparently cramped confines of the interior, which limits us to 1 optical drive and two hard drives, according to Apple's PowerMac 'Expandability' webpage (http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html).

Also, it appears that it may be a bit difficult to run cables from PCI cards (e.g., SCSI or ATA expansion buses) into the small hard drive bay.

I just don't understand why Apple decided to take a significant step backwards, especially since PowerMacs have been designed to easily handle more than 2 hard drives since the revision B Blue & White's.

Well said.

And I already have 2 extra IDE drives in my QS 800 DP that I would like to pop into a G5 soon :-)) . Well, one of them's connected to an ATA-133 PCI card anyway, so that's cool. But it doesn't look like I can squezze 2 extra HD in there...

Anybody know if there are external FW enclosures that hold more than one drive (kinda RAID I would guess)?

[mkaake]

my thoughts on 1 optical drive.

my first reaction: cool case! wait a minute, there's no way you can add a second... WHAT!!

second reaction:

that blows.

third reaction. Hmm. I guess with fw800 and 400, you can do it externally just as easy...

then i really got thinking... something's gotta kick start fw800 devices, right? who knows, maybe apple will bring out fw800 external drives that match the new cases. that would rock...

so i guess i can live with it, especially since i'm still using a beige g3 with the stock 12x cd rom drive and a 17 gig hard drive...

oh, and only like 416 megs of ram...

matt

[Reed Black]

Okay, cant stand to watch from the sidelines anymore. I'll be the first to say this... and FLAME ME IF YOU LIKE!!! All you IDIOTS complaining about expandability are just that idiots!!! I know this is harsh and rude but I dont care.

First off..this machine offers 500 Gigs!!!!! I'm a professional film editor that dabbles in compositing and effects. How much more do you want!!! 3 pci slots!! Just like one poster said PLEASE someone give me a realistic real life situation in which you would be screwed by NOT having more than 3 pci slots!! Also, 1 optical drive! I'm sure most of you out there still have your old computers with burners in them...use those or buy a new one. They're not expensive at all. I know, this post is harsh but its ridiculous how some of you IDIOTS- YES IDIOTS complain. If these new boxes came with a $500.00 bill inside SOMEBODY out there would complain that it should've been a $1000.00 bill. MORONS. Done ranting...now FLAME ON!!

Straight like that PUNKS!!

reed black

[voicegy]

I'm sorry, but after reading about the Fast User switching method Panther uses, well...it's the little things that really amaze me sometimes.

Johnny and Mary share a computer. Mary is online, doing iChat, cruising the web for new clothes, and writing her homework assignment in AppleWorks. Mary has to help Dad go figure out how to set the VCR clock, so Johnny takes advantage of the lull and logs in.

The whole friggin' interface, upon log in with another user, SPINS AROUND like the "cube" effect in Keynote! When Mary comes back, its spins again and everything is where it was, still running and waiting for her.

Class, sophistication, and superlative ease of use. I think that just rocks.:D

[PretendPCuser]

I'd say it's worth the wait.

I know that you've all been anxiously awaiting my comments, so i won't keep you from them any longer. :rolleyes:

1). Hinge doors suck! It's totally cool that you can have that clear slot open to show off the inside of the machine. If i get one, that's what i'm doing. Bets on how long it'll take someone to offer some kind of aesthetic lighting specifically for the G5?

2). Ok! It's the fastest ever! Let's hope it's still that way when it ships.

3). Bus speed. Holy *****. It really was time for Apple to step up here and they hit one out of the park!! All of the subsystems look fantastic. Can't wait to see real benchmarks of every kind of test, not just Photoshop filters a, g, f, 1, 5, and 6, and Quake III scores (Doom III scores? HINT!)

4). The case. I think it rocks. Inside and out. I was kinda hoping that they'd go aluminum. Can't wait to see it for real. I wonder if they are going to have them all over the place at the Create MacWorld NY thingee. I think i have to go to that now.

5). Prediction: New Laptops (15") announced in one month at Create. (no prediction on which chip).

Now that i have given my humble 2c's, the world can spin on again!

This just in! I'm a total dork!!! :D

[Ensoniq]

CentaurAtlas -

Your theory on why the PowerBook G5 didn't get released today seems spot on to me.

Of course, logic doesn't go over well on these forums most of the time. Which is probably why no one even responded to you until now.

But that's okay...it's far better than them completely slamming your theory, even though it's logic would be hard to ignore.

So even though it's just one person, consider yourself the winner of two thumbs up from me. :)

-- Ensoniq

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
YOU might not need more than 2 HDDs but other people do.


Were Apple to build the computer for all users it would be bigger, hotter and costlier. Then there would be the complaints that they didn't make the world's best for $1300 or less and etc.

Apple has plenty of storage solutions if you are in need of serious professional stuff but little Jonnie's dad isn't going to want to pay for a fraction of that capability built into the machine for the rest of us. Soon, if it hasn't already happened, we are going to be seeing complaints about the lack of $499 G5s!