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Veldek
Jul 14, 2003, 02:43 PM
Look here:

http://www.audio.philips.com/betatest_HDD100.asp

I just watched a television broadcast about this thing and it resembles the iPod so much, I can't believe they "stole" all the technology and trademarked it for themselves!

tazo
Jul 14, 2003, 02:58 PM
i am upset with al these people who think apple should be the only people to have a decent hard drive bbased mp3 player. Jut because ford mainstreamed the automobile, does not make toyota nowadays 'thieves'.

:rolleyes:

dswoodley
Jul 14, 2003, 03:13 PM
adding insult to injury is the use of brushed metal windows...

cc bcc
Jul 14, 2003, 03:28 PM
Apple wasn't the first one with their iPod. They made the first usable and small MP3 player, that's all. The technology was not invented by Apple..

Good thing is that, in every review of a new mp3 player, they will always be compared with the iPod. So every new mp3 player is in fact a promotion for the iPod. ;) Free advertising for Apple!

Veldek
Jul 14, 2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by cc bcc
Apple wasn't the first one with their iPod. They made the first usable and small MP3 player, that's all. The technology was not invented by Apple..

Good thing is that, in every review of a new mp3 player, they will always be compared with the iPod. So every new mp3 player is in fact a promotion for the iPod. ;) Free advertising for Apple!

Don't get me wrong, it's ok if they come out with their own player, but what you said should have been done: compare it to the iPod. But it hasn't been done once, just talking about what good ideas they had and how special their player is. This is what got me upset. What made me laugh: during the introduction, they wanted to take a closer look and the batteries got low, because "they had it running all the time" :D

idea_hamster
Jul 14, 2003, 04:24 PM
Sorry, but this seems like a big ho-hum to me:

It's some sort of beta test, so the thing probably isn't even in production.
Phillips is not a cheap-o outfit, so it's not clear to me that this won't be far over the regular MP3 player price range, if not in the iPod's range.
It's not clear how big/small it is, how the controls work -- I didn't even see a full-size image.
It records? I don't expect this to be a big feature to most audiophiles (but oh, MAN, would this have been a neat feature when the Dead were touring).
Nowhere does it talk about calendars, contacts, or just being a hard disk, so I'm pretty confident that all this functionality of the iPod is just missed.

This isn't a list that makes me sad that I got a Rev. A 10GB iPod -- nor does it seem that they've managed to do a very good job of knocking off the iPod.

As far as styling goes, it didn't seem too similar. That black screen seems neat -- and hey, if you're going to buy based on screen color, well, all the other stuff isn't going to change your mind.

I think we're safe on this one.

Abstract
Jul 14, 2003, 04:49 PM
I think you're just mad because it is a HD based mp3 player. That's all it is. Like others have said, Apple didn't invent the HD based player. Others had it beforehand. All Apple did was make it smaller (and therefore, better). However, it isn't as if Apple was the first company that wanted to make a small mp3 player. This was the goal of every company. Apple just happened to release theirs first. Does it mean that they "invented" the small mp3 player? How about mobile phone companies? Did Motorola start dissing other companies because they were the first company to make a small mobile phone? No, of course not, because a smaller and more portable product is obviously the next progressive step in design. Same with Mp3 players being made smaller.

And about the "features" of the iPod: I don't see any "innovative" features in the iPod, either. I also see features that would have obviously be added by manufacturers, whether it was Apple who did it first, or another company.

Schiffi
Jul 14, 2003, 07:24 PM
Yeah, I got this (http://ssiamerica.com/products/neojukebox/neojukebox-large.jpg) mp3 player before Apple introduced it's 1st gen 5Gb. I replaced it with a 10GB iPob 2 months ago. Because the Neo MP3 was pure and utter crap. Other than that, it was a'ight. (though the HD was easy accessible so the user could upgrade it himself.

Royal Pineapple
Jul 14, 2003, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Abstract
I think you're just mad because it is a HD based mp3 player. are you kidding, look at its os, its nearly identical to the ipod os, its just inverted
this is a compleet rip off of the ipod's os not the ipod itself
i also wanna see the controlls, because it seems that it dosnt have a scroll wheel and that kind of scrolling os works really well with a scroll wheel
edit: found a bigger pic of it
http://www.audio.philips.com/PI/hdd.asp

5300cs
Jul 14, 2003, 08:33 PM
I agree, look at the interface.. it looks almost EXACTLY like the iPod. How can you not see that?? The progress bar, the battery icon, the scroll list...

Just another case of people ripping-off Apple designs. Nothing can be done about that.

voicegy
Jul 14, 2003, 09:05 PM
It's pretty.
It has the Philips name, which I respect.
That's about it. For the rest of it:
It has a funny "curve" to it (bows out at the center ever so slightly...I don't approve). It looks to be thicker than the iPod. It has too many buttons. The interface font is fugly. It's in beta.

Oh, and the reason we all get so upset when the "competition" sees how good things CAN be (such as Apple design) and attempts to "ape" it: well, it's simple We're sick of seeing "our" company performing costly R & D and doing it right the first time for other companies that don't have a clue, and getting those things out to market making it look as if it hadn't been done before and cutting into our precious profit. For instance, I don't know HOW many times I've corrected PC users when they ask if Apple machines are "wireless, like their laptops are?" WE FRIGGIN' DID IT YEARS AGO, WHERE WERE YOU?! (probably fiddling around with their PC, adding crap there, getting rid of crap there) *sigh*

yzedf
Jul 14, 2003, 10:13 PM
You guys are too funny. There is nothing Apple about the iPod other than the packaging. The OS was not even theirs, just like all the other recent "great products."

iPhoto
iPod OS
FCP
Safari

etc etc

All that can be said is they recognize, an buy out, good things. Whoopy doo.

bennetsaysargh
Jul 14, 2003, 10:53 PM
it looks solid, but i love my iPod:)
seriously though, everyone takes ideas once in a while. that's what makes competition better. when people take ideas, they tend to add thier own flare to it, and make it a little better. then the creator takes what the other person did, and makes that, and adds onto it. it's like a creative cycle.

Jerry Spoon
Jul 14, 2003, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by Veldek
I just watched a television broadcast about this thing and it resembles the iPod so much,
Come on! This couldn't be more different. Didn't you see...it uses USB2;)

morgan-e
Jul 15, 2003, 01:34 AM
it's similar, yeah, but nothing to wax contempt over. in fact it features an automatically variable genre sound equalization feature that, to the best of my knowledge, my new 10 GB is without. it's a competitive market, and when creative labs made a buzz with the nomad zen we got updated ipods with bigger HDs and better functionality. i don't see anything wrong with this.

jimthorn
Jul 15, 2003, 02:19 AM
Apple needs to get the recording features working on the new iPods, before this comes out. "Direct Recording" seems to be a big selling point for this iPod clone, but Apple still has a chance to beat them to it. The hardware is already there inside the "3G" iPod... Apple just needs to activate it with an iPod OS upgrade.

macphoria
Jul 15, 2003, 10:25 AM
I think there are similarities between this Philips mp3 player and iPod. But it is inevitable. The product development guys at Philips probably sat down with bunch of mp3 players on the market and analyzed what works and what doesn't. And iPod most likely was the one that "worked" and they took many elements from it. I think this is quite flattering for Apple, actually.

Veldek
Jul 15, 2003, 10:43 AM
MacBidouille agrees with me:

http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-07-15#6134

Again, just to make it clear. The website alone might not be enough to understand why I was so upset. I watched a TV broadcast where they introduced the player and they told the viewers what good ideas they had and how well it scrolls and so on. They did not mention the iPod, but all they said has already been put in by Apple.

pauld
Jul 15, 2003, 10:55 AM
It dosen't look half bad in black.
Kind of like iPod's arch nemisis.

g30ffr3y
Jul 15, 2003, 11:07 AM
it looks cool and has recording... im still getting an ipod, but i like the black especially...

Abstract
Jul 15, 2003, 11:51 AM
Not to sound like an iPod sellout, but I'd buy the Philips machine if it can offer better battery life. The battery life alone would be the deciding factor for me. :cool:

Veldek
Jul 15, 2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Abstract
Not to sound like an iPod sellout, but I'd buy the Philips machine if it can offer better battery life. The battery life alone would be the deciding factor for me. :cool:

Is the battery life of the new iPods this bad? I have a 2G 10GB iPod and have no problem with the advertised 10 hours.

tjwett
Jul 15, 2003, 12:43 PM
damn, even the font on the display is almost the same. the interface has obviously been "inspired" by the iPod. not to mention the brushed metal on the website. no shame. but phillips and Apple have sort of "partnered up" so this technology could've been handed to them.

Java
Jul 15, 2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Veldek
Is the battery life of the new iPods this bad? I have a 2G 10GB iPod and have no problem with the advertised 10 hours.

I have the new 3g iPod and I haven't had a battery problem yet. Every night I just plug it in, and let it recharge.

I'd be amazed if you can zap the iPod battery in a single day (since it is like 9 hours or something).

Plus, using iSync with my Palm pilot and iPod is so sweeeeet. I'd like to see a windoze user sync up their Palm, Cell Phone (Ericson T68i), and iPod together.

This is just another example of some competitor realizing that Apple's products rock when it comes to design.:p

NNO-Stephen
Jul 15, 2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Veldek
Is the battery life of the new iPods this bad? I have a 2G 10GB iPod and have no problem with the advertised 10 hours.

I have the 30GB 3G iPod. I dont have a problem with battery life as long as I charge it every night (which is what the doc is for anyway... connected to my stereo... brilliant!

anyway, I have no problems wiht the 8 hours as it lives up to it. it's very nice indeed, and trust me, I use the thing CONSTANTLY and it works out about right.

Veldek
Jul 15, 2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
I have the 30GB 3G iPod. I dont have a problem with battery life as long as I charge it every night (which is what the doc is for anyway... connected to my stereo... brilliant!

anyway, I have no problems wiht the 8 hours as it lives up to it. it's very nice indeed, and trust me, I use the thing CONSTANTLY and it works out about right.

I only charge my iPod every 8-10 days and use it every weekday for about 90 minutes on my ways to work and back home. So even then: no probs!

rueyeet
Jul 15, 2003, 01:46 PM
That thing looks like someone took an old black Sony Walkman, shrunk it a bit, and stuck in a photo-negatived iPod display. The menu navigation and the scrolling feature look pretty much the same, the buttons are in nearly the same position as the first two iPod versions, and the font looks familiar too. It does function as a hard drive, as well, even though it uses USB 2.0. Only the scroll wheel is missing, and I agree that this constitutes a weakness.

So yes, as long as it's borrowing quite that much from the iPod, it have been nice of them to give it at least a brief mention. Even better for their purposes if they'd approached it from a "we have all that AND recording AND an equalizer" direction.

The real weakness of the thing is that they couldn't possibly integrate it with even the major PC music management programs as well as the iPod goes with iTunes....an advantage that the Windows crowd can soon choose to share with us Mac users.

A note on battery life....I consistently get 10 hours out of my Rev. B iPod, but then I run it all the way down before recharging. I've actually run my iPod for a half an hour after all the bars are gone from the battery display! It's like having another gallon in the tank after the gas light goes on. :cool:

MacRETARD
Jul 15, 2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by voicegy
It's pretty.
It has the Philips name, which I respect.
That's about it. For the rest of it:
It has a funny "curve" to it (bows out at the center ever so slightly...I don't approve). It looks to be thicker than the iPod. It has too many buttons. The interface font is fugly. It's in beta.

Oh, and the reason we all get so upset when the "competition" sees how good things CAN be (such as Apple design) and attempts to "ape" it: well, it's simple We're sick of seeing "our" company performing costly R & D and doing it right the first time for other companies that don't have a clue, and getting those things out to market making it look as if it hadn't been done before and cutting into our precious profit. For instance, I don't know HOW many times I've corrected PC users when they ask if Apple machines are "wireless, like their laptops are?" WE FRIGGIN' DID IT YEARS AGO, WHERE WERE YOU?! (probably fiddling around with their PC, adding crap there, getting rid of crap there) *sigh*

Apple didnt invent the mp3 player, hard drive mp3 player, or small size mp3 player. They refined some pre-existing concepts into a great package.

Apple did not invent 802.11b or any other wireless spec. They were not the first to market with any wireless technology. You could get 802.11 on pcs long before Apple decided to make it an Apple standard. The same applies to 802.11g. Again all Apple did was take existing technology and refine it and make it easier to use.

visor
Jul 15, 2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by Veldek
Look here:

http://www.audio.philips.com/betatest_HDD100.asp

I just watched a television broadcast about this thing and it resembles the iPod so much, I can't believe they "stole" all the technology and trademarked it for themselves!

In fact, it has quite some more features than the iPod. Direct recording e.g. would have been a nice feature on the ipod - i recently had to buy a dictating recorder, despite having an ipod - thats another 60bucks down the drain...
Look at the equalizer - iPod doesn't have it. It has the settings of itunes - but nothing you can fiddle around on the go.
IPod also doesnt recognize WMA audio afaik... another Point for phillips.
The Phillips seems to have a bigger screen and no scrollwheel - besides, it's black, so completely opposite of the Ipod ;)
The only thing that looks remotely like the iPod is the Menu - but then, all mp3 players with a slightly larger display have this kind of menu...
item1
item2
item3
item4

Thinking about it, almost all phones, mobiles especially have the same menu (stolen from nokia btw.)

Where's the Problem? It's not even remotely the same thing. It doesn't even have firewire, but USB2 - probably it's not compatible with the mac...

visor
Jul 15, 2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Veldek
Is the battery life of the new iPods this bad? I have a 2G 10GB iPod and have no problem with the advertised 10 hours.

It's 8 hours.
8 hours is ok if you use it in every day live and connect it every evening to recharge.

it's completely useless if you're travelling.

not to mention that it easiely stays on if your not carefull enough to lock the controls. I've been cought more than once with a spent battery with my new 15gig iPod.
You can't even replace Batteries on it, you need to find a Power plug... find one in a tent...

Abstract
Jul 15, 2003, 03:27 PM
Originally posted by Veldek
I only charge my iPod every 8-10 days and use it every weekday for about 90 minutes on my ways to work and back home. So even then: no probs!

So your iPod has a battery life of 12 to 15 hours? :confused:

Anyway, only Apple would lower the battery life of a product from 10 hours to 8 hours, instead of increase the battery life. I guess that in a time where my portable CD player can get 80 hours of battery life, I'm a bit spoiled, but I would like to get more than 8 hours. Even the 10 hours of the old iPod would be better.

voicegy
Jul 15, 2003, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by MacRETARD
Apple didnt invent the mp3 player, hard drive mp3 player, or small size mp3 player. They refined some pre-existing concepts into a great package.

Apple did not invent 802.11b or any other wireless spec. They were not the first to market with any wireless technology. You could get 802.11 on pcs long before Apple decided to make it an Apple standard. The same applies to 802.11g. Again all Apple did was take existing technology and refine it and make it easier to use.

I know that. :rolleyes: It's just that when Apple takes the concepts and makes a great package, that's when it takes off and makes a "statement." Then, later on, the PC consumer notices it being done and thinks "Ah, another innovative idea...I'm so glad I'm not an Apple person...those machines are just toys anyway, I've got WIRELESS that's so cool of Microsoft to do!" I'm talking about the "man on the street" who doesn't hang around sites like this, or first time computer buyers. It's a "consumer conception" that I'm talking about here.

I know I'm not giving the best example, but it's difficult for me to put in actual terms. I think some will understand what I'm attempting to put across.

MacFan26
Jun 6, 2004, 06:41 AM
I suppose this isn't a big iPod rip off, but it's definitely got some rival features. Like the battery life. It hasn't been released yet, has it been available for preorder long? I just saw it today.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00028DJTY/ref=amb_right-2_96522_1/103-0066278-9355840

Kwyjibo
Jun 6, 2004, 09:04 AM
wow another revived old thread ...

Abstract
Jun 6, 2004, 10:18 AM
The only thing that looks remotely like the iPod is the Menu - but then, all mp3 players with a slightly larger display have this kind of menu...
item1
item2
item3
item4

Thinking about it, almost all phones, mobiles especially have the same menu (stolen from nokia btw.)


And that's exactly what I meant. The menu is a ripoff of the iPod? Did they invent the menu? The iPod's menu is fairly standard issue in terms of layout, similar to Nokia's. I had an old electronic organizer with that type of menu layout as well.

And if iPod implements more of the features that their competitors are adding, is Apple ripping someone off? I doubt I'd ever hear that from you guys.... Its like some of you have tunnel vision or something.

If someone has a great idea that works brilliantly, expand on it. Why go in a completely different direction if someone found a way that works? Going out and doing it completely your own way and ignoring what actually works well is pure ego. There's only so many ways that an HDD based mp3 player could work, and there's only one that works well.

7on
Jun 6, 2004, 11:08 AM
HDD120 (http://www.consumer.philips.com/global/b2c/ce/catalog/product.jhtml;jsessionid=GZ3IWUHPHUIQ3J0RMRCRYVFHKFSESHD0?divId=0&groupId=AUDIO_GR&catId=PORTABLE_AUDIO_CA&subCatId=MP3_PLAYERS_SU&productId=HDD120_17)

Updated link since the 1 year old link is now dead...