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View Full Version : Linkin Park singer just can't make up his mind


foofan
Jul 15, 2003, 01:01 PM
check out this article regarding Linkin Park's decision not to use iTunes

http://www.curlio.com/new_showarticle.php?id=4600&page=last

vwcruisn
Jul 15, 2003, 01:26 PM
that guy is an idiot... ill just keep stealing his music... oh well

Eniregnat
Jul 15, 2003, 01:26 PM
I don't think that the band members have anything to say or do concerning the marketing or sales of their music. Arenít they an assembled group of performers who have writers and lyrists that create their songs?

Music downloads are the present and future of music sales.

yzedf
Jul 15, 2003, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Eniregnat
I don't think that the band members have anything to say or do concerning the marketing or sales of their music. Arenít they an assembled group of performers who have writers and lyrists that create their songs?

Music downloads are the present and future of music sales.
Linkin Park is a group of artists, true. But they write their own stuff.

For the last 30 yrs the music industry has moved away from singles and B sides. Many albums (Phish) are written to flow as one long piece. Songs out of order, or even just one or 2 played, don't make sense (in the opinion of the artist).

It is up to the artist to decide what they release for public consumption, and what format. Nobody told Picasso what to do or how to do it. It does not matter what you or I think. If they want to release all their songs on vinyl or 8 track only, then they can. Some bands still produce specials only available on vinyl (Pearl Jam for one) in very limited quantities.

Free market is about choice; choice of what to produce, sell, and buy. If you don't like it, tough.

jelloshotsrule
Jul 15, 2003, 01:40 PM
i for one wouldn't buy linkin park songs, much less albums. ;)

Foucault
Jul 15, 2003, 01:45 PM
I think each band has the right to do whatever they want with their music. Linkin Park is fortunate to have had the success from their first album that they are able to have the creative and marketing control that most bands don't have. So if they don't want to put their albums and songs in the ITMS, then they're the ones missing out on the missing revenue. I would prefer to give them my money to purchase some of their songs, but if they don't want my money, I'll find other ways to get their songs.

vniow
Jul 15, 2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i for one wouldn't buy linkin park songs, much less albums. ;)

Me neither, blech.

My 13 year old sister on the other hand...

bitfactory
Jul 15, 2003, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
Linkin Park is a group of artists, true. But they write their own stuff.

Nobody told Picasso what to do or how to do it.

uh, yeah... let's be more careful with the analogies we draw between 'artists," shall we? :rolleyes:

zarathustra
Jul 15, 2003, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
Linkin Park is a group of artists, true. But they write their own stuff.

For the last 30 yrs the music industry has moved away from singles and B sides. Many albums (Phish) are written to flow as one long piece. Songs out of order, or even just one or 2 played, don't make sense (in the opinion of the artist).

It is up to the artist to decide what they release for public consumption, and what format. Nobody told Picasso what to do or how to do it. It does not matter what you or I think. If they want to release all their songs on vinyl or 8 track only, then they can. Some bands still produce specials only available on vinyl (Pearl Jam for one) in very limited quantities.


i wish that would be true. Most bands today produce tripe that iss not worth the plastic it's printed on, save a pair of songs. $14 for two songs sucks for me, but is great for the band.

I will pay $14 for a CD that plays as a "symphony", or download it for $9.99; I will buy a song I like for Ę99, but will not pay $14 for it.

bitfactory
Jul 15, 2003, 01:59 PM
from the article:
"Bands like us that have commercial success by selling records are in a different place than the bands that are in a lower playing field, so it's hard for us to really understand from our point of view.."

hmmm, yeah Chester - funny how a band that's been around forever (U2), and has sold more albums than you'll ever DREAM of selling, doesn't seem to have a problem with it. a little worried that your brand of 'crap-rock' is on the way out? i think so.

any band that's against selling their singles KNOWS their albums are uneven and unworthy of a complete buy.

(i'm just quietly waiting for the Indies to come on board)

tazo
Jul 15, 2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i for one wouldn't buy linkin park songs, much less albums. ;)

I agree but I still think it is stupid for a group to turn down making more money and receiving even greater exposure.

Artists :rolleyes:

jbomber
Jul 15, 2003, 03:16 PM
Hey, I like Linkin Park, and I agree that this is a bad move. I think it's because their last album, Meteora, was hardly worth the price. clocking in at an appallingly short 36 minutes it left a lot of people wondering why they paid $20 for it. Their previous albums were longer and better all around. Kind of unfortunate that i broke my 5 year ban on buying albums because of their subpar nature for that...

Abstract
Jul 15, 2003, 03:50 PM
Artists who are greedy aren't really "artists". You're not an artist unless you die poor. Just Abstract's 2 cents. ;)

And can someone please tell Linkin Park that the alternative is for people to d/l individual songs without paying for it? People are going to d/l music anyway. Would they rather people use Kazaa or iTMS?

I think I'll d/l a few of their songs anyway. I don't like their music, but I want to get their music anyway, have it sit on my computer. Bah, its not like I have to pay for it anyway. I tried to pay for it, but I couldn't find their songs!! Muahahahaha!!!! http://forums.fanhost.com/forums/graemlins/evil.gif

King Cobra
Jul 15, 2003, 04:20 PM
Nobody here gets it (http://www.funmac.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1137).

A paragraph from Chris' post:

I was talking to Chester for 10mins and Mike only for 5mins. I was asking them stuff like, whats your stance on sharing mp3s . Chester was all for it, he said that he saw it as a positive thing. He saw it as a great for people liking and download there music. And if they like it enough they will buy there album. and further on he says record sales are bigger than ever.

Read. (http://www.funmac.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1137)

BTW: The author of that curlio article is a jackass.

bitfactory
Jul 15, 2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra
Nobody here gets it (http://www.funmac.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1137).

most of us "get it" - they don't want to sell their singles. what else is there to get? and their sales aren't up - their last album sold 5M, their latest just hit 2M and drops off considerably every week. the flavor of the month is hard genre to be involved in.

either way, don't say "Commercially successful bands like us..." shut yer hole is what i say - again, look to U2. the Joshua Tree sold 15M all by itself - how's that for 'commercial' ?

this conversation is a non-starter anyway - by the time their next release drops there will be a new flavor in favor.

KentuckyApple
Jul 15, 2003, 04:44 PM
I was going to say something pithy, but then I realized that I should not waste the keystrokes on Linkin Park. I know we are all dumber for having read that article.

iJon
Jul 15, 2003, 04:48 PM
well i love linkin park and i love every one of their albums and every song on them. but i do know some people dont and just maybe want 1 or 2 songs. but i downloaded all their albums and i was excited to legally purchase them on the iTMS but i will not buy their music until they hop on the bandwagon of the iTMS.

iJon

King Cobra
Jul 15, 2003, 05:04 PM
>most of us "get it" - they don't want to sell their singles. what else is there to get? (bitfactory)

Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000056BGZ/qid=1058306121/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005ATGY/qid=1058306121/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009RBXY/qid=1058306121/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008HCP6/qid=1058306226/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008NUQT/qid=1058306226/sr=1-20/ref=sr_1_20/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)

Those are singles that LP is selling.

>and their sales aren't up - their last album sold 5M, their latest just hit 2M and drops off considerably every week. the flavor of the month is hard genre to be involved in.

Their last album, Hybrid Theory, is three years old. And Reanimation is almost exactly one year old. How can you compare album sales when one album is a year old (or more) and another is a few months old?

Meteora didn't just hit 2M. They hit 2M and still have contributing sales, just like Hybrid Theory is still selling, just like most albums are still selling, but at various paces.

>either way, don't say "Commercially successful bands like us..." shut yer hole is what i say - again, look to U2. the Joshua Tree sold 15M all by itself - how's that for 'commercial' ?

That's offtopic, not commercial.

>this conversation is a non-starter anyway - by the time their next release drops there will be a new flavor in favor.

Yet I started this conversation about Linkin Park's real mood. The author didn't find out exactly what Chester said first hand. Chris (i.e. mac15) did, and he is mentioned in my previous post.

That was how the conversation started. You, bitfactory, changed it.

bitfactory
Jul 15, 2003, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra
[B]>

Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000056BGZ/qid=1058306121/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005ATGY/qid=1058306121/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009RBXY/qid=1058306121/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008HCP6/qid=1058306226/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)
Single (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008NUQT/qid=1058306226/sr=1-20/ref=sr_1_20/102-5279563-3216149?v=glance&s=music)


$12.99
$12.99
$12.99
$11.99
$9.49

respectively.

and the last one has two songs on it.

the point is, a band like this IS afraid to sell singles for $.99 when they fail to FILL an album with good content.

Linkin Park's real mood. The author didn't find out exactly what Chester said first hand. Chris (i.e. mac15) did, and he is mentioned in my previous post.

you didn't start this conversation. we were discussing certain bands and their reluctance to make their music available on ITMS. i couldn't care less what LP's 'mood' is. now THAT'S 'offtopic.'

iJon
Jul 15, 2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by bitfactory
$12.99
$12.99
$12.99
$11.99
$9.49

respectively.

and the last one has two songs on it.

the point is, a band like this IS afraid to sell singles for $.99 when they fail to FILL an album with good content.



you didn't start this conversation. we were discussing certain bands and their reluctance to make their music available on ITMS. i couldn't care less what LP's 'mood' is. now THAT'S 'offtopic.'
well i disagree, although neither of our point of views matter because it all based on opinions of music taste. i have all of linkin park's albums and every song is great in my opinion. i do have many albums where i dont like all the songs but lp's albums i like. all my friends who listen to linkin park love all the songs too. maybe they are scared but i dont think so, but im sure they more about their music being art since they write all their own music and rhymes, just like how they say in their song "Step Up"

iJon

mnkeybsness
Jul 15, 2003, 06:35 PM
this is turning real "i hate linkin park and they are stupid for not allowing people to buy their songs via ITMS" vs. "i love linkin park and all of you are stupid for not loving them."

let's get back to a discussion on if it's a matter of artists wanting their sales to be as full albums only or they just don't think it will help their sales.

Kid Red
Jul 15, 2003, 06:37 PM
For the last 30 yrs the music industry has moved away from singles and B sides. Many albums (Phish) are written to flow as one long piece. Songs out of order, or even just one or 2 played, don't make sense (in the opinion of the artist).



I'll relunctantly accept that as a partial reason, however, if that were true, then singlwes would not be released, singles would not be played on the radio, and they would have one, long, 74 minute music video. So, for groups that don't get radio play and don't have any music videos I will accept your answer. Otherwise, RHCP and Metallica (wow, same company behind them) cant say **** because they have had singles on the radio and music videos as a single releases since their first albums. So that excuse makes no sense. "It's a whole continuos flow", flow this :rolleyes:

King Cobra
Jul 15, 2003, 06:39 PM
>the point is, a band like this IS afraid to sell singles for $.99 when they fail to FILL an album with good content.

Here is the introduction to the ultimate music flamewar: What is music?

Music is simply art that individuals can listen to. you may not like the content, but I do.

I can listen to most Hybrid Theory, most of Reanimation, and all of Meteora and enjoy it.

>you didn't start this conversation. we were discussing certain bands and their reluctance to make their music available on ITMS. (bitfactory)

If I didn't start this conversation about something we have been discussing, then who started it?

>i couldn't care less what LP's 'mood' is. now THAT'S 'offtopic.'

The title of the thread is: Linkin Park singer just can't make up his mind

You've pinpointed yourself there.

King Cobra
Jul 15, 2003, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by iJon
i have all of linkin park's albums and every song is great in my opinion....[my friends know] more about their music being art since they write all their own music and rhymes, just like how they say in their song "Step Up"

Same here. I also have a few unreleased songs. Step Up was also played on my local radio station (from NJ/NY) a while back.

I even mix up some of his songs. :D

But what LP chooses to have done with his music is up to them.

iJon
Jul 15, 2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra
Same here. I also have a few unreleased songs. Step Up was also played on my local radio station (from NJ/NY) a while back.

I even mix up some of his songs. :D

But what LP chooses to have done with his music is up to them.
yeah im not to worried. i personally fell the itms store will get extremly big and artists will be fools not to hop on.

iJon

NavyIntel007
Jul 15, 2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
Linkin Park is a group of artists, true. But they write their own stuff.

For the last 30 yrs the music industry has moved away from singles and B sides. Many albums (Phish) are written to flow as one long piece. Songs out of order, or even just one or 2 played, don't make sense (in the opinion of the artist).

It is up to the artist to decide what they release for public consumption, and what format. Nobody told Picasso what to do or how to do it. It does not matter what you or I think. If they want to release all their songs on vinyl or 8 track only, then they can. Some bands still produce specials only available on vinyl (Pearl Jam for one) in very limited quantities.

Free market is about choice; choice of what to produce, sell, and buy. If you don't like it, tough.

Um... I don't know what planet you've been on for the last five years but who have been the big multi-platinum artists? brittney, nsync, JLo, Backstreet Boys... These are artists that THRIVE on singles. Hardly any albums are written as works of art. It's all about cash now. You're a little lost if you think bands like Phish are the rule.

actripxl
Jul 15, 2003, 09:05 PM
Don't think Linkin Park has a say in the matter, its a group that represents various artists. Also if you get the Meteora CD with the dvd you will see that all they use are Mac's for the production of their album.

vollspacken
Jul 16, 2003, 06:18 AM
Huh chester, you seem very smart... NOT!!!

what an idiot!

if you read his justification, you can't help, but shake your head...

I think their music sucks anyway, but I used to respect them as artists... not anymore! anyone this stupid does not deserve my respect. "let the fans decide...", yeah Chester, that's what they already do, and since you don't want to give them the opportunity to pay for the songs which they "decide" to like and download, they'll do that illegally...

stupid-stupid-stupid!!!

vSpacken

Sabenth
Jul 16, 2003, 08:49 AM
I just asking here whats peoples opnions of other artists none comercial artists. Artists that arnt signed to big labels myself included iam on an indpendent label in australia there dead keen on the idea of ITMS its a dream come true to them. You can have a global fan base without even leaving your country and it costs next to nothing to advertise. Publish and download. As it was mentioned in the artical below linkin park used mp3s on there site before there comercial sucsess. So it aint mp3s that put them off. Anyhows If the chance comes and the label gets on it fingers crossed i can get on it i dont mind selling my stuff for 99cents american or australian. hell you can sell it for 99euro 99p 99 yen so long as some one buys it lol....

Up to the artists more like up to the label and the artist in genral of course when your big in the music industry you can put your foot down and demand a better deal .... thats my 99cents worth already.

Daveman Deluxe
Jul 16, 2003, 11:34 AM
Personally, I think Linkin Park's whole notion of what they do is misguided.

First of all, I don't think it's a legitimate claim to say that an album can be a complete work of art and can't be segmented any further. Even the best bands only have three or four really awesome songs on an album.

Linkin Park is NOT Robert freaking Schumann. Good performers do not make great albums, good writers do not make great albums, good composers do. The art of composing good music is lost on most bands. Sting and Dave Mathews are the ONLY great composers left in big commercial music. If they want to tell me that their entire album was written to be an album and not a set of singles, I'll believe it because they can compose. Lots of people can write a great lyric and a nice chord chart and a beat to go with it. However, that's not truly composing. Dave Mathews is in a completely different league from Phish and Linkin Park and Britney Spears for that reason alone.

Second, LP seems to be forgetting that while they're there to make music, they also need to make a buck. I think services such as the iTMS are soon to be the only commercially viable method of music distribution. I would be OK with Apple allowing albums to be sold as albums instead of singles, except the labels would abuse that and produce a lot of albums that can't be sold as singles.

However, I do think it's up to Linkin Park to decide what it wants to do with music distribution. I think they're making a bad financial choice here, but that's their choice to make.

rueyeet
Jul 16, 2003, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by bitfactory
(i'm just quietly waiting for the Indies to come on board) :D

Yes indeedy. And then I shall run up my credit card even more, oh yes.

Kid Red's got it right: regardless of whether this "albums only" view is coming from the bands or their management, it's absolutely bogus. As the Apple Turns summed this up very well in their own inimitable fashion not too long ago:

Artistic Vision Strikes Again (http://www.appleturns.com/scene/?id=4054)

'Nuff said.

yzedf
Jul 16, 2003, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Um... I don't know what planet you've been on for the last five years but who have been the big multi-platinum artists? brittney, nsync, JLo, Backstreet Boys... These are artists that THRIVE on singles. Hardly any albums are written as works of art. It's all about cash now. You're a little lost if you think bands like Phish are the rule.
Multi-platinum artists make music for the lowest common denominator (currently teenage girls). The music industry is about cash? Really? You must be dumb to think I don't know that.

Phish was just an example. I could have just as easily said U2, REM, Pearl Jam, Metallica, Beethoven, Bach, whomever. Listen to any good album, regardless of genre. Listen to it from start to finish. Notice something. It's called flow. Today's crap (brittney etc) doesn't understand that. They are packaging 3 or 4 "hit singles" with 8-12 filler songs, add a few pictures with written lyrics, and selling it for $18.95 to any 13 year old girl that is paying attention. Sadly, brittney et al still fall under the category of "artist."

couch potato
Jul 16, 2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by vwcruisn
that guy is an idiot... ill just keep stealing his music... oh well

lol amen. ill just go pirate some linkin park right now because that guy doesnt seem to care:D

curlio
Jul 16, 2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by King Cobra

BTW: The author of that curlio article is a jackass. [/B]

At least have the guts to come to my own site and tell me that to my face. For the record, it's bitch, not jackass :P

My main point of the article is that he seems to contradict himself. At one point he says it's up to the fans, it's what the fans want. Then he says that they're not doing it because it's not a sure thing. Whether or not Launch misquoted Chester, I don't know. With launch (which is where I found the quotes from Chester), you never know.

King Cobra
Jul 16, 2003, 04:48 PM
>At least have the guts to come to my own site and tell me that to my face. (curlio)

See you at your site. Make sure there is a forums/comments section open for that LP article.

>For the record, it's bitch, not jackass :P

Given that the name "curlio" ends with the letter "o", it is traditional for that name to be associated with a male individual.

bennetsaysargh
Jul 16, 2003, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
Nobody told Picasso what to do or how to do it. It does not matter what you or I think.

picasso wasn't recognized untill he was 6 feet under. i think. anyway, what we think does count, because if they listen to us, that means they aren't writing to write, but they are writing to make everyone happy instead of just writing like they did for thier first album. that is why we have bands and artists who onbly have one good cd, and then fail to follow up with another.

also, i wouldn't mind buying whole albums on the iTMS, but it's one of the main things that every song is available by itself.