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ciaw525
Jul 3, 2007, 12:30 PM
T-Mobile Gets Exclusive Rights For iPhone In Germany -Report

Jul 3, 2007 13:19:00 (ET)

BERLIN (Dow Jones)--T-Mobile International AG has obtained the exclusive rights to distribute the iPhone in Germany, beating out rival Vodafone Group PLC's (VOD) German unit D2, according to an advance report of Wednesday's edition of daily Rheinische Post.

T-Mobile is the wireless telephone operator of German telecommunications company Deutsche Telekom AG (DT). The iPhone cellphone was recently launched in the U.S. from Apple Inc. (AAPL), which will later this year also be introduced in Europe.

The phone will go on sale in November, and will retail for EUR450 a piece, according to the newspaper, citing sources within the company. T-Mobile declined to comment.

Newspaper Web site: http://www.rp-online.de

-Berlin Bureau, Dow Jones Newswires; 49-30-2888-410

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

July 03, 2007 13:19 ET (17:19 GMT)

==================================================

Anybody know if T-Mobile is a 3G network in Germany?



princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 12:31 PM
From DowJones newswire. No real details announced, other than:

- T-Mobile beat out Vodafone.
- Exclusive rights to the sell the phone. (Like AT&T has in US)
- On sale in November.
- Pricing: 450 Euro
- T-Mobile and Apple both have declined any further comments.

Anybody know if T-Mobile is a 3G network in Germany?

What? T-Mobile is in Germany???

ciaw525
Jul 3, 2007, 12:33 PM
What? T-Mobile is in Germany???

From Wikipedia:

In Germany, its home market, T-Mobile is the largest mobile phone operator with 32 million subscribers (as of September 2005), closely followed by its primary rival, Vodafone. The highly profitable GSM network in Germany is scheduled to be supplemented and ultimately replaced by UMTS, for which T-Mobile spent €8.2 billion in August 2000 to acquire one of the six licenses for Germany.

princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 12:36 PM
I guess that means that T-Mobile is higher quality than Vodafone?

megfilmworks
Jul 3, 2007, 12:41 PM
Any word on the UK?

Or Japan?

yayaba
Jul 3, 2007, 12:41 PM
How's the 3G network over there?

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 12:45 PM
This blows :mad:. I am on o2, oh well, guess I have to switch :(

epicwelshman
Jul 3, 2007, 12:46 PM
I'm moving to the UK in a few weeks, and frankly, I don't care who the iPhone's going with, as long as it comes out relatively soon.

EricNau
Jul 3, 2007, 12:47 PM
Anybody know if T-Mobile is a 3G network in Germany?
Yes.

How's the 3G network over there?
Very Good.

plumbingandtech
Jul 3, 2007, 12:47 PM
I guess that means that T-Mobile is higher quality than Vodafone?

No. It may just mean T-Mobile offered more then Voda.

it looks like multiple euro partners though so the next week should be interesting.

TheAnswer
Jul 3, 2007, 12:48 PM
What? T-Mobile is in Germany???

Yeah...T-Mo is the mobile arm of Deutsche Telekom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Telekom).

Ugg
Jul 3, 2007, 12:53 PM
I wonder if it's just Germany or Switzerland, Austria, Czech Republic, Croatia, etc.

T-Mobile's not cheap but they have pretty good coverage and lots of wifi.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 01:01 PM
The article (http://www.rp-online.de/public/article/aktuelles/digitale/internet/454975) mentions that analysts were quite surprised that Tmobile got the rights instead of vodafone.

Mac-Addict
Jul 3, 2007, 01:07 PM
I'm moving to the UK in a few weeks, and frankly, I don't care who the iPhone's going with, as long as it comes out relatively soon.

Ahh welcome to the UK, you have made a mistake to move to this **** hole :D! No I'm just messing, what part of The UK are you moving to? This will affect your iPhone ifs its locked to a certain network such as Orange, where I live Orange sucks balls for signal and quality but in other parts of the UK they are apparently great.

Elrond39
Jul 3, 2007, 01:12 PM
If this holds for The Netherlands as well, then I won't even need to get a new simcard (maybe)... :D I like T-Mobile. I've had a very good experience with them.

MacRumors
Jul 3, 2007, 01:26 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/03/AR2007070301105.html) translates a Rheinische Post article (http://www.rp-online.de/public/article/aktuelles/digitale/internet/454975) which reveals that the iPhone will be sold through T-Mobile in Germany and launch on November 1st, 2007.

The cost of the phone for the German market is said to be 450 euros (US $612). There has been no confirmation of rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/29/3g-iphone-for-uk-customers/) the European version of the iPhone may incorporate 3G technology.

Apple launched the iPhone in the U.S. last week and had planned a European launch in Q4 2007 and Asia in 2008.

Ugg
Jul 3, 2007, 01:27 PM
Wie der Vertrieb in den übrigen europäischen Ländern laufen soll, ist nicht klar.

Translation: How the distribution in other European countries will be handled, is unclear.

I'd think that Apple would want to minimize the number of carriers as well as have a European wide tariff.

That would be a huge breakthrough right now to know that simply crossing an imaginary line doesn't mean you're going to spend a fortune on calls.

It'll be interesting to see what the terms are and if contracts are forced on the customer.

Multimedia
Jul 3, 2007, 01:28 PM
Isn't 3G pretty much the only way to go in Europe?

bytethese
Jul 3, 2007, 01:28 PM
T-Mobile can't sell it here in the US for at least 5yrs, but Deutche Telekom can sell it in Germany. Nice.

pieman02
Jul 3, 2007, 01:29 PM
Sheesh I remember when the dollar was worth more than the Euro...if they update that iPhone to 3G without first doing it in the US I think a lot of people will be pissed...

What is going on with that Qualcomm chip ban thing anyway? I thought that was upheld so a lot of phone companies can't make 3G phones right now :confused:

princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 01:29 PM
Wait a minute doesn't that make if T-mobile offers in Germany what happens to T-mobile in the US?

Squonk
Jul 3, 2007, 01:29 PM
That is excellent news! The status of 3G will be very interesting...

xUKHCx
Jul 3, 2007, 01:31 PM
Hopefully the will choose another carrier in the UK, one that actually has decent coverage. T-Mobile are not even on my list of reasonably good companies. Come on 3G and a good carrier.

edesignuk
Jul 3, 2007, 01:32 PM
Regardless of the network, if the price point is accurate then it's good news. Nice to see it's not ridiculously over priced verses the US.

Still a horribly expensive phone, but we've already established that a long time ago ;) :p

calculus
Jul 3, 2007, 01:32 PM
if they update that iPhone to 3G without first doing it in the US I think a lot of people will be pissed...



...but no-one will be pissed off.

nostaws
Jul 3, 2007, 01:33 PM
so could I buy a german iphone, and put my US tmobile sim card in it, and use it here in the US?

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 01:34 PM
...but no-one will be pissed off.

haha so true

so could I buy a german iphone, and put my US tmobile sim card in it, and use it here in the US?

no

EricNau
Jul 3, 2007, 01:35 PM
so could I buy a german iphone, and put my US tmobile sim card in it, and use it here in the US?
Probably not.

phatspider
Jul 3, 2007, 01:35 PM
OOoh - interesting - i would anticipate it will launch in UK at same time - but probably with a different partner (Vodafone). Keep yer eyes peeled for the announcement!

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 01:35 PM
Anybody know if T-Mobile is a 3G network in Germany?

tmobile does do 3g in germany, and that means a 3g iphone will come soon... its ok though, i love my iphone :)

Enrico
Jul 3, 2007, 01:36 PM
Isn't 3G pretty much the only way to go in Europe?

Absolutely.

Here in Italy, operators have spent so much on UMTS (both in marketing and network infrastructures), that I don't think they're going to push anything that is not 3g.
Not talking of Three, that was born as a UMTS-only operator, which is causing some competition to the incumbent operators.

Time will tell:rolleyes:

pieman02
Jul 3, 2007, 01:37 PM
...but no-one will be pissed off.

...or pissed on hopefully :p

Maybe T-Mobile in the US will secretly sell its customers working SIM cards for iPhones when they visit the stores asking about iPhone hehehe

whooleytoo
Jul 3, 2007, 01:38 PM
Only one price? It could mean nothing, or it could mean the 4GB model is being dropped.

According to some "exit polls", 95% of people were buying the 8GB model. If true, the 4GB is likely to be one of Apple's shortest lived products ever.

4God
Jul 3, 2007, 01:38 PM
I sure hope it comes to T-Mobile here in the states, I'm very happy with my T-Mobile service and don't want to switch.

..<snip>..Still a horribly expensive phone, but we've already established that a long time ago ;) :p

Well, I guess the "glass half emtpy/half full" theory applies here.
You think it is a horribly expensive phone and I see it as an incredibly
inexpensive Touch/Widescreen iPod/Phone/PDA/Storage/Internet/Entertainment/Mobile productivity device. ;)

Mac-Addict
Jul 3, 2007, 01:40 PM
Does this mean the whole of Europe is going to be carried by T-mobile?

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 01:41 PM
Exklusiver Partner
iPhone wird bei T-Mobile verkauft
VON MICHAEL BRÖCKER UND SILKE FREDRICH



(RP) In der Vorstandsetage des britischen Mobilfunk-Konzerns Vodafone in Newbury waren sich die Manager bis zuletzt sicher. Nur sie, Europas größtes Mobilfunkunternehmen, könnten das vom US-Computerkonzern Apple entwickelte iPhone, ein Kombigerät aus Handy, Musikabspielgerät und Organizer, auf den europäischen Markt bringen.

Seit dem Verkaufsstart des iPhones in den USA am vergangenen Freitag wissen es die Manager besser. Wie unsere Zeitung aus Unternehmenskreisen erfuhr, hat die Telekom-Tochter T-Mobile den Zuschlag für den deutschlandweiten Vertrieb des prestigeträchtigen Apple-Mobiltelefons erhalten. Um den lukrativen Auftrag zu bekommen, soll T-Mobile beim Angebot noch „in letzter Sekunde ein Schippchen draufgelegt haben”. Über den Kaufpreis wurde indes nichts bekannt. T-Mobile wollte sich gegenüber unserer Zeitung nicht äußern. „Kein Kommentar”, hieß es aus der Unternehmenszentrale. Auch bei Vodafone wollte ein Unternehmenssprecher die Vorgänge nicht weiter kommentieren.

Das Handy, von dem in den USA allein am ersten Wochenende mehr als eine halbe Million Stück verkauft wurden, soll am 1. November in die deutschen Geschäfte kommen. Der Preis soll bei rund 450 Euro liegen. Wie der Vertrieb in den übrigen europäischen Ländern laufen soll, ist nicht klar.

Zuletzt wurde darüber spekuliert, dass Apple sich von der amerikanischen Ein-Partner-Politik (in den USA verkauft nur AT & T die iPhones) trennt und in einigen Ländern Vertriebsteams aus Vodafone, T-Mobile und Carphone Warehouse bildet. Wegen seiner größeren Marktmacht in Europa war der britische Mobilfunkriese Vodafone bis zuletzt als Favorit für den gesamten Europavertrieb gehandelt worden.

Analysten reagierten überrascht auf den Erfolg der Telekom, hatten doch auch sie den Favoriten Vodafone auf ihrer Rechnung gehabt. Die Experten glauben, dass sich das Geschäft mit dem Prestigeobjekt in jedem Fall auszahlen werde. „Das iPhone wird ähnlich wie der iPod ein reges Interesse auslösen”, sagte ein Apple-Analyst gegenüber unserer Zeitung. Nicht nur als Netzbetreiber könne man hohe Umsätze erwarten, sondern auch als Gerätehersteller. Insbesondere dann, wenn sie ebenfalls Geräte auf den Markt bringen, die über einen berührungsempfindliche Bildschirm gesteuert werden. Das wiederum könne sich positiv auf Zulieferer wie etwa Balda, auswirken. Das Unternehmen stellt besonders robuste Touchscreens her. Analysten rechnen durch das iPhone zudem mit einem Schub bei Qualitätshandys im Hochpreissegment.

Verbraucherschützer kritisieren hingegen, dass Kunden keine freie Anbieter- und Tarifauswahl haben, wenn sie das Apple-Telefon haben möchten. „Viele Kunden sind dazu nicht bereit, das ist eine Umsatzbremse”, prognostiziert ein Sprecher der Verbraucherzentrale.

Unterdessen hat das Marktforschungsinstitut iSupply das iPhone komplett auseinandergenommen und die einzelnen Bauteile untersucht. Das teuerste Modell könnte Apple demnach Umsatzrenditen von mehr als 55 Prozent bescheren. Die Material- und Produktionskosten für das 600 Dollar (450 Euro) teure iPhone-Modell mit einer Speicherkapazität von acht Gigabyte lägen bei 195,25 Euro, erklärte iSuppli. Die Apple-Aktien zogen danach rund 4,5 Prozent auf 126,66 Dollar (93 Euro) an. Auch veröffentlichen immer mehr Nutzer ihre ersten Testergebnisse zu den Funktionen des Geräts.

Demnach kommen Benutzerführung und Voicemailsystem gut weg, während der Akku schlechte Wertungen erhält. Statt der versprochenen acht Stunden hält er wohl nur vier.

Quelle: http://www.rp-online.de/public/article/aktuelles/digitale/internet/454975


T-Mobile spent 8,48 billion € for his german UMTS licence! So it would be clever to expand network usage with such a device!

Gfive
Jul 3, 2007, 01:42 PM
Sounds good.
T-mobile just bought a dutch mobile company....

Will The Netherlands be next?


(right now I live in the caribbean, but will move back to holland at the end of this month)

Detlev_73
Jul 3, 2007, 01:45 PM
Endlich bekommt Deutschland etwas Tolles!

Mac-Addict
Jul 3, 2007, 01:46 PM
Why do so many people in The US think they deserve 3G before everyone else? I think its about time Europe sees some love before The US, and the main reason Apple hasn't gone 3G in the states is because there is hardly any coverage of 3G in the US and Europe is practically fully covered with 3G signal. Fair enough?

Sweetfeld28
Jul 3, 2007, 01:47 PM
So does this mean that the US will see another model before the end of the year? My guess was that Apple would have a iPhone 2.0 model released [or 3G model] before Xmas.

maxp1
Jul 3, 2007, 01:47 PM
Remember that story a few weeks ago about how Apple might have a hard time finding a cell phone carrier in Europe, that the major carriers were balking at the restrictions of Apple's license?

Well just as predicted they caved. Were they going to pass on the the chance to make a lot of money and be in on the ground floor of something great? Didn't think so.

jmmo20
Jul 3, 2007, 01:48 PM
Does this mean the whole of Europe is going to be carried by T-mobile?

There's no T-mobile in Spain.

I'd pretty much prefer Vodafone.

The big players in Europe: Vodafone (UK), Orange (France), T-Mobile (Germany), O2/Movistar (Spain). But I guess Vodafone i hte most widespread.

glennyboiwpg
Jul 3, 2007, 01:49 PM
I hope that we get the iphone in canada....


huge grrr!

korndog2003
Jul 3, 2007, 01:50 PM
Wonder if Tmobile users over here in the us buys the german version if it will work over here!!! Maybe Good luck for the Tmobile users!!! :D

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 01:54 PM
One further reason for choosing T-Mobile in Germany could be the fact that T-Mobile pushes his new "web'n'walk" (mobile internet) rate plans at the moment.

jmmo20
Jul 3, 2007, 01:59 PM
Does this mean the whole of Europe is going to be carried by T-mobile?

Wonder if Tmobile users over here in the us buys the german version if it will work over here!!! Maybe Good luck for the Tmobile users!!! :D

A definite NO for you, sorry.
They're basically 2 different companies under the same "roof".
Same in Europe with Vodafone; even tho they all share the same name, internally they can be very different companies. And you can see how Vodafone rip users off in Spain (same old plain business plan of all companies in spain) while in the UK you get decent phones and decent price plans (and I know UK users complaint but man, you should see the market in Spain)

TheSilencer
Jul 3, 2007, 02:07 PM
I would not bet on 3G iPhone. The point here is, that T-Mobile also offers a good EDGE coverage, that Vodafone did not.

However, I had a talk with an employee and got it confirmed.

Other thing, the price. I would also not bet for 450 Euros, because most of Apple products are priced the same as in the U.S. that means 600 Dollar = 600 Euro. You can see this at nearly all products, i.e. the lowest iMac costs 999 USD and here it costs 999 Euros, a really bad thing because importing hardware is cheaper as buying it local.

IHateUserNames
Jul 3, 2007, 02:08 PM
How's the 3G network over there?

T-Mobile's 3G service is currently available to 60% of German population.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 02:08 PM
Sounds good.
T-mobile just bought a dutch mobile company....

Will The Netherlands be next?


(right now I live in the caribbean, but will move back to holland at the end of this month)

T-mobile has always been a dutch company, so um it will be in holland for ya

kalisphoenix
Jul 3, 2007, 02:10 PM
(right now I live in the caribbean, but will move back to holland at the end of this month)

I hate you.

T-mobile has always been a dutch company

O RLY?

sk3pt1c
Jul 3, 2007, 02:11 PM
t-mobile may be a giant in Germany, but it's pretty much non-existent in other countries, so they'll have to go with separate companies, not like in the US. maybe they'll have to go with the least amount of "good" companies all over Europe, vodafone is a sure bet for me (applied for a job there recently, hope i get a discount for the iphone) :) :) :) .
other than that, 3g is another "Yes" for me, since that's the only thing that works over here.
and another thing, 400+ euro for the 8gb iphone is NOTHING!!!!
take a look at the market and you'll find pretty ****ty phones out there that
cost way more than 400 euro, and the market it's targetting, "smart phones"
start from around 500 so it's gonna be a big hit i think! :)
damn, can't wait!!!

mister_L
Jul 3, 2007, 02:12 PM
i fear that the only reason t-mobile gets the iphone ist because of the fact that they are the only network-provider in germany with edge-support. i think everyone uses umts, but they also have edge ;(....

One further reason for choosing T-Mobile in Germany could be the fact that T-Mobile pushes his new "web'n'walk" (mobile internet) rate plans at the moment.

mister_L
Jul 3, 2007, 02:17 PM
T-mobile has always been a dutch company, so um it will be in holland for ya

no...t-mobile is a german company (part of Deutsche Telekom).

here are some info´s concerning the network coverage...

http://www.t-mobile.net/CDA/t-mobile_weltweit,75,0,,de.html

oelph@blueyonde
Jul 3, 2007, 02:20 PM
It makes sense that Germany's biggest mobile operator gets the iPhone. I don't believe its because of EDGE or anything else.

In the UK Vodafone will be the carrier of choice. A 3G iPhone for the EU is almost a given because of the lack of EDGE. Apple would be committing commercial suicide to release the iPhone in the EU without something better than GPRS. This device is meant to be a connected device and with the lack of wifi hotspots 3G is the only way to go for the majority of Europe.

darh
Jul 3, 2007, 02:21 PM
T-mobile has always been a dutch company, so um it will be in holland for ya

Always funny, the differnce between dutch and german:o

German = Deutsch (country: Germany)
Dutch = Nederlands (country: The Netherlands a.k.a. Holland)

Gfive
Jul 3, 2007, 02:22 PM
I hate you.

Why? Because it's always summer here :)

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 02:22 PM
I would not bet on 3G iPhone. The point here is, that T-Mobile also offers a good EDGE coverage, that Vodafone did not.

However, I had a talk with an employee and got it confirmed.


I have exactly the same doubts. If Apple went with Tmobile because of EDGE (AFAIK o2 has no EDGE) then it is highly probable that we won't see a 3G iPhone this year.

Gfive
Jul 3, 2007, 02:23 PM
Always funny, the differnce between dutch and german:o

German = Deutsch (country: Germany)
Dutch = Nederlands (country: The Netherlands a.k.a. Holland)

well for the US we are the same... same language..... same land...

hcopp
Jul 3, 2007, 02:26 PM
So does this mean that the US will see another model before the end of the year? My guess was that Apple would have a iPhone 2.0 model released [or 3G model] before Xmas.

pretty uneducated guess in my opinion seeing as apple just had 500,000 people buy a phone in June and there would be immense backlash, not to mention quite a small market for an updated iphone as everyone just bought one this week. Apple will not update the iPhone for christmas, they will just push the current product as much as they can, which probably includes branching out to other sales outlets. once initial demand is met and they can get on their feet, i don't see what would prevent apple from selling iPhones at target, best buy and the like, if all they have to do is activate through iTunes. But look at every other one of apple's products, they don't come out with a brand new device and update it 6 months later.



edit: I mean, as much as I would love to see a 3g Phone, it is kind of a bummer that the european market may not have one, I have a feeling that combined with the higher price point and lack of 3G our buddies across the pond won't show nearly the demand we did here in the states. Oh well, time will tell.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 02:27 PM
t-mobile may be a giant in Germany, but it's pretty much non-existent in other countries

What are you talking about? Tmobile exists in at least a dozen of countries: Germany, USA, UK, Poland, Netherlands, Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 02:27 PM
Sheesh I remember when the dollar was worth more than the Euro...if they update that iPhone to 3G without first doing it in the US I think a lot of people will be pissed...



Pissed on German beer, no doubt?

Ah, what did Churchill say about two great countries divided by language? :D

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 02:29 PM
pretty uneducated guess in my opinion seeing as apple just had 500,000 people buy a phone in June and there would be immense backlash, not to mention quite a small market for an updated iphone as everyone just bought one this week. Apple will not update the iPhone for christmas, they will just push the current product as much as they can, which probably includes branching out to other sales outlets.

Apple produced 3 million iPhones just for the US sales launch. What's after the 3rd million?

princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 02:29 PM
Pissed on German beer, no doubt?

Ah, what did Churchill say about two great countries divided by language? :D

I wouldn't rely on anything that Churchy said however. :eek:

DonSqueak
Jul 3, 2007, 02:32 PM
What? T-Mobile is in Germany???

T-Mobile is originally FROM Germany!

j_maddison
Jul 3, 2007, 02:34 PM
Why do so many people in The US think they deserve 3G before everyone else? I think its about time Europe sees some love before The US, and the main reason Apple hasn't gone 3G in the states is because there is hardly any coverage of 3G in the US and Europe is practically fully covered with 3G signal. Fair enough?

I don't know about Europe, but 3G coverage in the UK is not the best. It coveres the main cities, but even large towns are left with little or no coverage. Vodafone has the best 3G coverage by far in the UK, coming from a former O2 employee. It's common knowlage that Voda are ahead in terms of 3G coverage.

I'm sure they'e stopped, or at least slowed down their investment in the network though. I could be wrong there.

Jay

VideoFreek
Jul 3, 2007, 02:35 PM
T-Mobile's 3G service is currently available to 60% of German population.Perhaps, but it is concentrated only around the major cities: UMTS Map (http://www.t-mobile.de/funkversorgung/inland). EDGE is far more pervasive.

I also agree with another poster that EUR 450 for the 8mb phone is impossible...550 - 600 is more like it. Bear in mind that in Germany a 19% Value-Added Tax (VAT) is always included in the price, unlike in the US where sales tax is added to the posted sales price.

DonSqueak
Jul 3, 2007, 02:37 PM
A lot of people will be pissed! [...] ...but no-one will be pissed off.

Ahh, British vs. American language variety based jokes... brilliantly awesome.

adrian84
Jul 3, 2007, 02:39 PM
well for the US we are the same... same language..... same land...

not, not the same language but quite close. dutch sounds like a weired mixture between german and english. i was once sitting in a train next to a dutch couple and constantly wondering whether they were german or british. it took me literally half an hour to figure out that they were dutch.....


and t-mobile is more german than mercedes....it was a state owned company not so long ago!

what interest me most is: will i be able to use a att iphone with a german t-mobile card or vice versa? i want to buy an iphone but i cannot afford two (one for each country, are they NUTS?).

mister_L
Jul 3, 2007, 02:41 PM
that is another good point. t-mobile is the only network in germany that has edge an has invested a lot of money in a wide-spread network of wifi-hotspots.... :(

It makes sense that Germany's biggest mobile operator gets the iPhone. I don't believe its because of EDGE or anything else.

In the UK Vodafone will be the carrier of choice. A 3G iPhone for the EU is almost a given because of the lack of EDGE. Apple would be committing commercial suicide to release the iPhone in the EU without something better than GPRS. This device is meant to be a connected device and with the lack of wifi hotspots 3G is the only way to go for the majority of Europe.

darh
Jul 3, 2007, 02:41 PM
not, not the same language but quite close. dutch sounds like a weired mixture between german and english. i was once sitting in a train next to a dutch couple and constantly wondering whether they were german or british. it took me literally half an hour to figure out that they were dutch.....


and t-mobile is more german than mercedes....it was a state owned company not so long ago!

what interest me most is: will i be able to use a att iphone with a german t-mobile card or vice versa? i want to buy an iphone but i cannot afford two (one for each country, are they NUTS?).

Gfive is Dutch, so he probably knows where he's talking about:p I think he meant that Americans see it as the same language...:o

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 02:41 PM
Ahh, British vs. American language variety based jokes... brilliantly awesome.

Now, if you're English, I'd assume a touch of sarcasm there, but not if you're American. :rolleyes:

Ah, you're American, the word 'awesome' gives it away ;)

Pierremaison
Jul 3, 2007, 02:42 PM
I'm moving to the UK in a few weeks, and frankly, I don't care who the iPhone's going with, as long as it comes out relatively soon.

Don't come over here, we are all getting bombed! :(

Sverkel
Jul 3, 2007, 02:43 PM
What about the rest of EU? I live in Denmark and T-Mobile is not in Denmark... The only thing that I know is that Vodaphone works with Danish TDC...?

I want a iPhone :( :D :apple:

adrian84
Jul 3, 2007, 02:44 PM
Gfive is Dutch, so he probably knows where he's talking about:p I think he meant that Americans see it as the same language...:o

:rolleyes: too bad...I don't understand irony anymore...sorry

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 02:44 PM
that is another good point. t-mobile is the only network in germany that has edge an has invested a lot of money in a wide-spread network of wifi-hotspots.... :(

But they did invest ALOT in UMTS too. Sooo...there you go...

DonSqueak
Jul 3, 2007, 02:46 PM
well for the US we are the same... same language..... same land...

You mean, like, the non-US territory...?

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 02:46 PM
Don't come over here, we are all getting bombed! :(

Or is it pissed? ;)

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 02:47 PM
But they did invest ALOT in UMTS too. Sooo...there you go...

That's the point why i hope for an 3G version. They paid over 8 billion € just for the license + X for network development.

DonSqueak
Jul 3, 2007, 02:49 PM
Now, if you're English, I'd assume a touch of sarcasm there, but not if you're American. :rolleyes:

Ah, you're American, the word 'awesome' gives it away ;)

Bloody does, innit.

cashba
Jul 3, 2007, 02:49 PM
Regardless of the network, if the price point is accurate then it's good news. Nice to see it's not ridiculously over priced verses the US.

Still a horribly expensive phone, but we've already established that a long time ago ;) :p

I work in Vod-Italy. You don't have the first idea what's a horribly expensive phone. :)

MacsRgr8
Jul 3, 2007, 02:50 PM
:rolleyes: too bad...I don't understand irony anymore...sorry

That's probably becasue you are in Munich :p

But, TBH.. T-Mobile for Germany, Vodafone for the UK?..... hmmmm... seems like another iTMS Europe slapstick again. First UK, France and Germany, then the rest of us.
Still very good news for our eastern neighbours to be getting it pretty soon!
Leopard in October, iPhone in November! :eek: :cool:

Gfive
Jul 3, 2007, 02:50 PM
You mean, like, the non-US territory...?

No, thinking that holland is germany. (but i can't blame them, holland is sooooo small.... try to find it on the map of europe :-)

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 02:50 PM
I think a non-3G iPhone wouldn't work in the UK. What is the point of having a decent web browser without the speed? I bet a pint of good English beer that the iPhone will be 3G for here.

Pierremaison
Jul 3, 2007, 02:50 PM
Or is it pissed? ;)

I am pissed to numb my fear of being bombed!

mbear
Jul 3, 2007, 02:51 PM
Don't forget Orange and Voda made a 3g network sharing agreement a few months back. So Voda aren't necessarily the leaders here - it's fairly level pegging between these two at the moment.

I like the thought of Apples and Oranges, but I'll move to another network if I have to, grr.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/08/orange_vodafone_network/

Digitaljim
Jul 3, 2007, 02:52 PM
But if the iPhone becomes 3G for its European release, what does that mean for battery life?

Also, €450 = £303 = $612 - surely this cannot be the case with the "Rip-off Britain" effect we hear of so frequently from Daily Mail-reading scaremongers. If it is the case we're in for a treat; although £30/month minimum contract is still very, very pricey.

princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 02:52 PM
Don't come over here, we are all getting bombed! :(

Great... stop using the tactics of fear to prevent us from wanting to visit over there :eek:

I don't care... I will visit there next year... geezzzz...

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 02:52 PM
I am pissed to numb my fear of being bombed!

You'll be fine, just keep away from airport doors ;)

quigleybc
Jul 3, 2007, 02:53 PM
i need to read that this will be released in Canada some day....

JUST TELL US WHEN!!!!!!!!!

ARRRRGHHHHH

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 02:53 PM
Great... stop using the tactics of fear to prevent us from wanting to visit over there :eek:

I don't care... I will visit there next year... geezzzz...

Far worse then bombs is the weather - summer here is dire so far. Far too much rain. Is the iPhone waterproof (quick on-topic bit there)

princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 02:54 PM
Far worse then bombs is the weather - summer here is dire so far. Far too much rain. Is the iPhone waterproof (quick on-topic bit there)

Wow, can you send us some rain to Utah. WE neeedd it soon :)

Digitaljim
Jul 3, 2007, 02:54 PM
I think a non-3G iPhone wouldn't work in the UK. What is the point of having a decent web browser without the speed? I bet a pint of good English beer that the iPhone will be 3G for here.

Americans have it without decent 3G speeds.


But, then again, they think Budweiser is good beer.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 02:55 PM
I think a non-3G iPhone wouldn't work in the UK. What is the point of having a decent web browser without the speed? I bet a pint of good English beer that the iPhone will be 3G for here.

but wouldn't this be the same case in the US :confused:?. I mean, EDGE is significantly slower than UMTS but Apple still went ahead and launched their phone with no 3G. Why do you think Apple won't do the same in the UK?



EDIT: Beaten, Damn you Digitaljim :D

Pierremaison
Jul 3, 2007, 02:55 PM
Great... stop using the tactics of fear to prevent us from wanting to visit over there :eek:

I don't care... I will visit there next year... geezzzz...

Bring some spare underwear....

acrafton
Jul 3, 2007, 02:55 PM
pretty uneducated guess in my opinion seeing as apple just had 500,000 people buy a phone in June and there would be immense backlash, not to mention quite a small market for an updated iphone as everyone just bought one this week. Apple will not update the iPhone for christmas, they will just push the current product as much as they can, which probably includes branching out to other sales outlets. once initial demand is met and they can get on their feet, i don't see what would prevent apple from selling iPhones at target, best buy and the like, if all they have to do is activate through iTunes. But look at every other one of apple's products, they don't come out with a brand new device and update it 6 months later.


Where have you been? Apple's history demonstrates repeatedly that they will add/drop/update products when it suits them and they can maximize their profit. This idea that Apple won't update soon because of a backlash is PURE wishful thinking. If they think it makes sense to update for the Christmas season THEY WILL. They already have the early adopters money. . .they need to continue to enhance it to get NEW customers. To understand Steve's view of us, his loyal customers, read "The Second Coming of Steve Jobs".

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 02:57 PM
Bring some spare underwear....

Why, has M&S gone out of business? :confused:

Pierremaison
Jul 3, 2007, 02:59 PM
Why, has M&S gone out of business? :confused:

Be prepared for the unexpected...:rolleyes:

MacsRgr8
Jul 3, 2007, 02:59 PM
No, thinking that holland is germany. (but i can't blame them, holland is sooooo small.... try to find it on the map of europe :-)

We are set right behind the "ass of England"... haha... that's how Anglia looks on the map :p :D

Ahum.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 03:00 PM
Where have you been? Apple's history demonstrates repeatedly that they will add/drop/update products when it suits them and they can maximize their profit. This idea that Apple won't update soon because of a backlash is PURE wishful thinking. If they think it makes sense to update for the Christmas season THEY WILL. They already have the early adopters money. . .they need to continue to enhance it to get NEW customers. To understand Steve's view of us, his loyal customers, read "The Second Coming of Steve Jobs".

Apple updating their iPhone only 4 months after its release? I don't think so.

Metatron
Jul 3, 2007, 03:00 PM
You know, it does not make much sence for Apple to produce multiple phones if the iPhone is already a world phone. I would imagine that the currently iphone already supports 3g, by one of the many unknown, apple branded chips and is turned off, or Apple is sticking with EDGE on both sides of the world.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:02 PM
Apple updating their iPhone only 4 months after its release? I don't think so.

Perhaps not, but it could produce a different version for non-US markets

Mitch1984
Jul 3, 2007, 03:03 PM
They better release the 3G that I know is already in the works over here.

We shouldn't be punished for having 3G, wasn't Apple's reason for not making it 3g because no devices work on AT&T's 3G network yet, that or there isn't enough coverage?

But if they do, they'll upset the American customers. So I doubt they will. Which is unfair really considering they get everything 1st anyway, surely people shouldn't be upset if we got a 3G version of the iPhone before them just once.

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:05 PM
Be prepared for the unexpected...:rolleyes:

surprise carrier maybe ;) buy some food, clothes and an iphone all at one place :D

Jim Campbell
Jul 3, 2007, 03:06 PM
but wouldn't this be the same case in the US :confused:?. I mean, EDGE is significantly slower than UMTS but Apple still went ahead and launched their phone with no 3G. Why do you think Apple won't do the same in the UK?

Because, for the umpteenth time, 3G is nowhere as ubiquitous in the US as it is in the UK and mainland Europe. You don't introduce a feature with a universal negative (increased battery drain) if the positive it confers is far from universal.

Now, I'm not saying that Apple won't try to launch the iPhone as is into the European market, but they will lose a boatload of money if they think that a market that's used to paying nothing for their phones will drop a substantial amount of cash for a phone with no 3G and no MMS. I'd also put video recording on that list as well, frankly.

Cheers!

Jim

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:07 PM
surprise carrier maybe ;) buy some food, clothes and an iphone all at one place :D

Ah, so Tesco will have an exclusive on the iPhone, then, it's pretty much taking over everything else in the world :rolleyes:

psendeavor
Jul 3, 2007, 03:08 PM
But, then again, they think Budweiser is good beer.Budweiser is beer ????

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:08 PM
They better release the 3G that I know is already in the works over here.

We shouldn't be punished for having 3G, wasn't Apple's reason for not making it 3g because no devices work on AT&T's 3G network yet, that or there isn't enough coverage?


I remember reading somewhere (here most likely) that network coverage, battery life and size concerns were the biggest factors in not going 3G.

Hopefully by the time they come to Australia the iPhone will be 3G, as all carriers here now offer 3G services - with good coverage too.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:08 PM
Because, for the umpteenth time, 3G is nowhere as ubiquitous in the US as it is in the UK and mainland Europe. You don't introduce a feature with a universal negative (increased battery drain) if the positive it confers is far from universal.

Now, I'm not saying that Apple won't try to launch the iPhone as is into the European market, but they will lose a boatload of money if they think that a market that's used to paying nothing for their phones will drop a substantial amount of cash for a phone with no 3G and no MMS. I'd also put video recording on that list as well, frankly.

Cheers!

Jim

Agreed, MMS and video recording/playback are musts, as is 3G. Personally, I think it will have to be subsidised, too, if it's sold with a contract.

Bye Bye Baby
Jul 3, 2007, 03:09 PM
The thing that really annoys me is that the phone is locked. I mean when i travel I like to put in a local sim card in order to pay less for calls. Roaming has got to be the biggest rip-off anyone could imagine. I am also concerned that Apple has not figured on the difference across Europe in terms of markets. We might be 'one economic family' but we are a little bit dysfunctional.

princigalli
Jul 3, 2007, 03:09 PM
This sucks. T-Mobile is basically to Germany what ATT is to the USA. They might not have lame selling practices like ATT but they are bad for many other reasons. Besides, their pink logo is so ugly I don't think the IPhone can keep looking decent with it. T-Mobile comes from a socialist past when it was a state monopoly linked to the German Telecom. They were horrible and did everything in their power to lobby governments in an effort to block competition. That's how they became so rich they could expand in so many countries.

TheSilencer
Jul 3, 2007, 03:09 PM
You know, it does not make much sence for Apple to produce multiple phones if the iPhone is already a world phone. I would imagine that the currently iphone already supports 3g, by one of the many unknown, apple branded chips and is turned off, or Apple is sticking with EDGE on both sides of the world.

Nah, at least for Japan it would be no option. They have no EDGE, only UMTS and dying iMode and a simple fallback compatible GSM Mode for foreign country cellphones. So Apple have to release a 3G iPhone for Japan I think.

Dreyfus
Jul 3, 2007, 03:09 PM
T-Mobile Gets Exclusive Rights For iPhone In Germany -Report
...
Anybody know if T-Mobile is a 3G network in Germany?

If this is true, it is marvellous news :D

While T-Mobile has bad support and normally terrible data transfer charges (main reason their 3G network, while available, never really took off) - they do have the best GSM coverage across the country, the have plenty of WiFi hot-spots and they do have GPRS/EDGE, so the iPhone in its current form will work! I would not have dropped my T-Mobile contract for the iPhone and was afraid Vod will get it. Happy!

I just do not believe the prices quoted in the article - the phone will be more expensive (more like 600-650 EUR) and that is OK, I paid 935 EUR for my Nokia 8800 when it came out and compared to the iPhone it is nothing (well, except for the Ryuichi Sakamoto ring tones :eek: )... and there is no way T-Mobile will give away unlimited data for that price.

Cheers

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 03:10 PM
feel sorry for those australians....

CmdrLaForge
Jul 3, 2007, 03:12 PM
I do believe that T-Mobile gets the Phone because of their EDGE network. Makes more sense to me. I don't see a 3G iPhone in November. Apples update cycles are longer and the UMTS network is not ready. Next years iPhone will be different. I guess a new version comes out around March-May. By then they will add 3G.

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:12 PM
Ah, so Tesco will have an exclusive on the iPhone, then, it's pretty much taking over everything else in the world :rolleyes:

7/11's seem to be springing up everywhere too :)

It would be interesting to see who they go with when they release in Asia/Australia. The muppet in charge of Telstra (largest mobile coverage in Australia) at the moment said,some time ago, Apple shouldn't enter the phone market and they have no interest in carrying the product.

Wonder if he needed a hand removing the foot from his mouth after the success of the US release ;)

EDIT: Found the article "stick your knitting" Steve :) http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37710

Mitch1984
Jul 3, 2007, 03:14 PM
I don't want their disgusting ping logo on my nice iPhone either LOL.

T-Mobile in the UK is one of the not so popular networks.
Over here in the UK It's Orange & 02 I'd say.

Orange used to be good at good customer service but they don't care now that they've got such a lead.

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 03:14 PM
It seems like there is no other source than "Rheinische Post" at the moment to confirm that information.

princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 03:16 PM
Be prepared for the unexpected...:rolleyes:

Let's see... I was nearly killed twice during the past 7 years. So English and UK craziness isn't nothing to boot on a lorry you know?

It would be the petrol prices that drive me up the wollocks but I think that I will manage.

VideoFreek
Jul 3, 2007, 03:17 PM
Budweiser is beer ????Budweiser (http://www.budvar.cz/en/index.html) is great beer! :o

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:17 PM
Agreed, MMS and video recording/playback are musts, as is 3G. Personally, I think it will have to be subsidised, too, if it's sold with a contract.

All but the 3G could be added through software/firmware updates couldn't it?

Personally I couldn't care about MMS and video, as I think I have used them maybe once or twice on any phone (2 or 3G) I have ever had.

I would be more than happy to take the US model right now..... **goes to check on how the unlocking is going** ;)

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 03:17 PM
It would be the petrol prices that drive me up the wollocks but I think that I will manage.

Don't cry because of your petrol prices.... come to Europe and pay much more for it!

ravenvii
Jul 3, 2007, 03:19 PM
I think what Apple is doing is, release the iPhone with EDGE in the United States, and release it in any other countries that has EDGE, if the carrier is willing to bend over for Apple. If those two conditions are met, your country gets the iPhone.

If either one of those conditions are not met, no iPhone for you. At least until Apple feels that the United States market is ready for 3G, then it will release a 3G iPhone for the US, and then release the iPhone to those countries omitted because of the conditions above.

skoops
Jul 3, 2007, 03:19 PM
It seems like there is no other source than "Rheinische Post" at the moment to confirm that information.

unfortunately you're right... all other sources are just quoting Rheinische Post

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:20 PM
Budweiser (http://www.budvar.cz/en/index.html) is great beer! :o

Gosh, I'd forgotten about that - it IS good beer. A few pints of that on a hot summer's evening is very pleasant.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 03:20 PM
I remember reading somewhere (here most likely) that network coverage, battery life and size concerns were the biggest factors in not going 3G.


The only _believable_ factor for not including 3G in the current iPhone is UMTS penetration in the US. As for the battery, that is complete and utter rubbish. Other phone vendors have UMTS phones and their battery life is just fine.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:21 PM
I think what Apple is doing is, release the iPhone with EDGE in the United States, and release it in any other countries that has EDGE, if the carrier is willing to bend over for Apple. If those two conditions are met, your country gets the iPhone.

If either one of those conditions are not met, no iPhone for you. At least until Apple feels that the United States market is ready for 3G, then it will release a 3G iPhone for the US, and then release the iPhone to those countries omitted because of the conditions above.

That would be a silly plan, because the US is a relatively small market for mobile phones. Far better to produce a phone with which it can conquer the rest of the world with.

fwhh
Jul 3, 2007, 03:24 PM
German Magazine "Der Spiegel" has also picked up the story:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,492222,00.html
I just can't think of a phone not having UMTS capability nowadays. It's just a no-go. Surfing the web or checking mail is a pain without UMTS...
And as said before: the companies in europe paid billions in cash for their 3G licences, so i'm sure they want to use them...

joeshell383
Jul 3, 2007, 03:24 PM
Why do so many people in The US think they deserve 3G before everyone else? I think its about time Europe sees some love before The US, and the main reason Apple hasn't gone 3G in the states is because there is hardly any coverage of 3G in the US and Europe is practically fully covered with 3G signal. Fair enough?

No, not fair enough. The European and Asian cell phone makers ALWAYS produce better phones for Europe and Asia than the U.S. It's about time that we get something first.

I think it's funny how you Europeans actually think Apple will release the iPhone with 3G only to Europe. When it is released in Europe, it will most likely be 3G and the U.S. model will be updated simultaneously.

Also, I'm not sure how many times it has been said but AT&T is the EXCLUSIVE PROVIDER IN THE U.S.!

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:27 PM
No, not fair enough. The European and Asian cell phone makers ALWAYS produce better phones for Europe and Asia than the U.S. It's about time that we get something first.

I think it's funny how you Europeans actually think Apple will release the iPhone with 3G only to Europe. When it is released in Europe, it will most likely be 3G and the U.S. model will be updated simultaneously.

Also, I'm not sure how many times it has been said but AT&T is the EXCLUSIVE PROVIDER IN THE U.S.!

I'm sure Apple isn't going to worry about what is 'fair' but rather what will make the most profit. And that will be a 3G phone for the rest of world markets.

kaos
Jul 3, 2007, 03:27 PM
Americans have it without decent 3G speeds.


But, then again, they think Budweiser is good beer.

uh, no. we just think it's not a BAD beer. and it ain't.

BlakTornado
Jul 3, 2007, 03:28 PM
Well, if T-Mobile are going to sell the iPhone in Germany, I hope they sell it in the UK because I'm with T-Mobile and I won't have to switch! YAY!

I hope they allow Pay as you go! Hate contracts!

It's about time that we get something first.

WTF!?

America gets almost everything before Europe does in terms of technology!

Computer games, games consoles, the actual iPhone itself...

Think about things before you write them, thanks.

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:28 PM
The only _believable_ factor for not including 3G in the current iPhone is UMTS penetration in the US. As for the battery, that is complete and utter rubbish. Other phone vendors have UMTS phones and their battery life is just fine.

at 11.6mm thick though? By friend's Dopod D810 is 3G but is pretty thick and the battery is pretty hefty

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 03:29 PM
German Magazine "Der Spiegel" has also picked up the story:
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,492222,00.html
I just can't think of a phone not having UMTS capability nowadays. It's just a no-go. Surfing the web or checking mail is a pain without UMTS...
And as said before: the companies in europe paid billions in cash for their 3G licences, so i'm sure they want to use them...

but still a quote of "Rheinische Post"

A vodafone employee (germany) said that it is just a rumor and they wouldn't comment rumors.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 03:30 PM
at 11.6mm thick though? By friend's Dopod D810 is 3G but is pretty thick and the battery is pretty hefty

yea the iphone is extremely thin, you've gotta come to the states and hold one.. you'll be amazed

kaos
Jul 3, 2007, 03:30 PM
:eek:

personally, i'm a single malt drinker.

joeshell383
Jul 3, 2007, 03:31 PM
I'm sure Apple isn't going to worry about what is 'fair' but rather what will make the most profit. And that will be a 3G phone for the rest of world markets.

I'm sure 3G will be in the rest of the world markets, but also in the U.S.

For all the people who say lack of coverage, that simply isn't true! AT&T has a growing 3G network that covers the most populous areas, and most of their other phones are already 3G enabled, which is why everyone was so disappointed that the iPhone (of all phones) didn't include it.

For all the people saying battery drain, most 3G enabled phones can switch to EDGE, and will do so by default when no 3G is available.

It's a lose-lose situation not having 3G.

EDIT: You're also right about them making profits, which is why they WILL release a 3G phone so soon after the first on came ot. For all thoe saying, they'll never abandon the early -adopters, I don't know what you're thinking, of course they will, they know the early adopters have money and will buy again. Look at the 2 month difference between Apple TV models or the 3 month difference between iMac G5 2.0 and iMac Core Duo. I'm sure they will provide firmware updates, but they certainly aren't going to be "afraid" to release new hardware.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:31 PM
personally, i'm a single malt drinker.

Irish, I hope.

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:32 PM
yea the iphone is extremely thin, you've gotta come to the states and hold one.. you'll be amazed

Will be there in December for the Hawaii Marathon so I was planning on getting a fix then ;)

EDIT: the thing I love is that it is even thinner than my V3i and it does heaps more as well

BlakTornado
Jul 3, 2007, 03:32 PM
It's about time that we get something first.

WTF!?

America gets almost everything before Europe does in terms of technology!

Computer games, games consoles, the actual iPhone itself...

Think about things before you write them, thanks.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:33 PM
yea the iphone is extremely thin, you've gotta come to the states and hold one.. you'll be amazed

I guess a 3G version will have to be a little thicker. Shame but inevitable.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:34 PM
WTF!?

America gets almost everything before Europe does in terms of technology!

Computer games, games consoles, the actual iPhone itself...

Think about things before you write them, thanks.

I think he was referring to phone technology.

Are you sure about games consoles? Most of those start off in Japan.

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 03:34 PM
For all the people who say lack of coverage, that simply isn't true! AT&T has a growing 3G network that covers the most populous areas, and most of their other phones are already 3G enabled, which is why everyone was so disappointed that the iPhone (of all phones) didn't include it.


I thought only SIM cards are 3G enabled in the US...

epicwelshman
Jul 3, 2007, 03:35 PM
Ahh welcome to the UK, you have made a mistake to move to this **** hole :D! No I'm just messing, what part of The UK are you moving to? This will affect your iPhone ifs its locked to a certain network such as Orange, where I live Orange sucks balls for signal and quality but in other parts of the UK they are apparently great.

Moving to London. I was born in Cardiff, but have spent the last 12 years in the Bahamas/Canada. I miss the UK. But yeah, we'll see what happens with the UK iPhone...

kaos
Jul 3, 2007, 03:35 PM
Irish, I hope.

No, but entirely willing to broaden my provincial horizons. Recommendations?


[I'll cease hijacking this thread now.]

Digitaljim
Jul 3, 2007, 03:37 PM
Budweiser (http://www.budvar.cz/en/index.html) is great beer! :o

Forgive me; Czech Budvar is indeed great beer.

American Budweiser tastes like it was made with a Soda-Stream :o

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:38 PM
One thing I have been curious about is if there is any mention of AT&T on the body of the phone itself?

From what I have seen in a lot of countries around the world, and increasingly more so here in Australia too, is that Carriers have the logo's on the phone, which is something I really don't like that much.

I haven't been able to see anything in the photo's people have taken, but I was curious about the text on the back of the phone.

mi5moav
Jul 3, 2007, 03:38 PM
The best part about this is that again I'll only get one bill since I have T-Mobile landline, DSL, and cellular at my flat in Budapest. Hopefully, the next version will incorporate the Cisco networking thing that if I don't have service at my house it will just switch over to wifi over skype or whatever.

Plutonius
Jul 3, 2007, 03:40 PM
I think what Apple is doing is, release the iPhone with EDGE in the United States, and release it in any other countries that has EDGE, if the carrier is willing to bend over for Apple. If those two conditions are met, your country gets the iPhone.

If either one of those conditions are not met, no iPhone for you. At least until Apple feels that the United States market is ready for 3G, then it will release a 3G iPhone for the US, and then release the iPhone to those countries omitted because of the conditions above.

Agreed, I don't believe that Apple will upgrade the iPhone hardware before sometime next year (It takes time for design, testing, and approval. The current 3G chips will not fit in the iPhone packaging so it's not a trivial update). The countries that require 3G will get the iPhone but it will not be this year. Those countries that demand an unlocked phone will never see one at least until the AT&T agreement is concluded (5 years I believe).

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 03:40 PM
German "Handelsblatt" denies the article of the "Rheinische Post"

Gerangel um deutschen iPhone-Vertrieb geht weiter
Der Bieterkampf um den exklusiven Vertrieb des Apple-Handys iPhone in Deutschland ist noch nicht zuende: Die Meldung, T-Mobile habe wegen eines nachgebesserten Angabots den Zuschlag erhalten, ist nach Handelsblatt-Informationen falsch. Unterdessen wird eine erste Schätzung zur Umsatzrendite des iPhones bekannt - und die ist mehr als üppig.

HB BONN/DÜSSELDORF. Die „Rheinische Post“ berichtet in ihrer Mittwoch-Ausgabe, zwar sei Vodafone wegen seiner größeren Marktmacht in Europa bis zuletzt als Favorit für alle Verkaufsrechte in Europa gehandelt worden. T-Mobile habe sein Angebot aber in letzter Minute nachgebessert und habe Apple damit überzeug. Das Gerät solle ab 1. November für rund 450 Euro ausschließlich in Verbindung mit einem T-Mobile-Vertrag in den Geschäften angeboten werden.

Das Handelsblatt erfuhr dagegen aus Unternehmenskreisen, dass noch nichts entschieden ist. Die Telekom verhandle noch – wie andere Wettbewerber auch – mit Apple über die Vertriebsrechte. Offiziell wollten sich weder der Bonner Telekommunikationsriese noch sein britischer Konkurrent äußern.

55 Prozent Umsatzrendite beim Spitzenmodell

Unabhängig vom Vertriebspartner wird das iPhone die Kassen von Apple kräftig klingeln lassen, wenn sich genügend Geräte absetzen lassen: Das Marktforschungsinstitut iSuppli schätzte die Umsatzrendite beim teuersten iPhone-Modell am Dienstag auf über 55 Prozent. Demnach liegen die Material- und Produktionskosten für das 600 Dollar teure Handy bei gut 265 Dollar. Die Apple-Aktie zog nach Bekanntwerden der Daten um knapp fünf Prozent an.

Apple hatte die mit Spannung erwartete Kombination aus Handy, MP3-Spieler und Organizer am Freitag in den USA in den Handel gebracht. Schätzungen zufolge gingen am Wochenende bereits bis zu eine halbe Million der Geräte über den Ladentisch. iSuppli hat nach eigenen Angaben das Handy mit einer Speicherkapazität von acht Gigabyte auseinandergenommen und die einzelnen Bauteile untersucht. Demnach kostet das von der deutschen Firma Balda gebaute Display 27 Dollar. Den eingebauten Kommunikations-Chip von Infineon bewertete iSuppli mit 15,25 Dollar.

Apple will bis 2008 zehn Mill. iPhones verkaufen, was einem Prozent des weltweiten Mobilfunkmarktes entsprechen würde. In den USA wird das iPhone von etwa 200 Apple-Läden und 1 800 Vertriebspunkten der Telekomgesellschaft AT&T verkauft. Analysten rechnen damit, dass AT&T in den kommenden drei Quartalen drei Millionen iPhones verkaufen könnte und sich so einen zusätzlichen Umsatz von 1,4 Mrd. Dollar sichert.
Source: http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/Unternehmen/IT-Medien/_pv/_p/201197/_t/ft/_b/1289241/default.aspx/gerangel-um-deutschen-iphone-vertrieb-geht-weiter.html

miketcool
Jul 3, 2007, 03:41 PM
Please please please allow that phone to work on T-Mobile in the states. PLEASE! I have a birthday in November and this would be the best news for the year thus far. (3G on the same frequency is pushing it, but I can hope for that too!)

Padraig
Jul 3, 2007, 03:42 PM
I guess a 3G version will have to be a little thicker. Shame but inevitable.

The nokia 6500 classic is 9.5mm thick and 3G. Samsung also have thinner models.

joeshell383
Jul 3, 2007, 03:42 PM
One thing I have been curious about is if there is any mention of AT&T on the body of the phone itself?

From what I have seen in a lot of countries around the world, and increasingly more so here in Australia too, is that Carriers have the logo's on the phone, which is something I really don't like that much.

I haven't been able to see anything in the photo's people have taken, but I was curious about the text on the back of the phone.

There is no AT&T logo on the device. It only has an Apple logo on the back. It has an AT&T "virtual logo" on the status bar after activation.

psendeavor
Jul 3, 2007, 03:43 PM
Budweiser (http://www.budvar.cz/en/index.html) is great beer! :o
Well yes, but that's BEER, but "Budweiser" isn't...

j_maddison
Jul 3, 2007, 03:43 PM
I don't want their disgusting ping logo on my nice iPhone either LOL.

T-Mobile in the UK is one of the not so popular networks.
Over here in the UK It's Orange & 02 I'd say.

Orange used to be good at good customer service but they don't care now that they've got such a lead.

Vodafone are actually the largest operator in the UK, in terms of connected user base. O2 and Voda usually shift position from time to time. Orange have been third for quite some time.

To put t-mobile into perspective, information is two years out of date now though - Interestingly enough if you take into account the number of connections registered with virtual mobile operators, then t-mobiles network actually comes out on top in terms of connected user base:

In 2005 the UK had 67,908,546 subscriptions in total, or a 113.4% penetration rate.
Rank Operator technology Subscribers
(in millions) Ownership
1 T-Mobile UMTS, GSM 17.2 (December 2005) Deutsche Telekom
2 Vodafone UMTS, GSM 16.33 (December 2005) Vodafone
3 O2 UMTS, GSM 15.98 (December 2005) Telefónica 2
4 Orange UMTS, GSM 14.86 (December 2005) France Télécom
5 3 UMTS 3.59 1 Hutchison Whampoa

jay

Digitaljim
Jul 3, 2007, 03:43 PM
No, but entirely willing to broaden my provincial horizons. Recommendations?


[I'll cease hijacking this thread now.]

Talisker. From Scotch-land.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 03:45 PM
German "Handelsblatt" denies the article of the "Rheinische Post"


Source: http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/Unternehmen/IT-Medien/_pv/_p/201197/_t/ft/_b/1289241/default.aspx/gerangel-um-deutschen-iphone-vertrieb-geht-weiter.html

Some guys over at Apfeltalk forums called Tmobile and it was confirmed. Or at least that is what they were told.

Please please please allow that phone to work on T-Mobile in the states. PLEASE! I have a birthday in November and this would be the best news for the year thus far. (3G on the same frequency is pushing it, but I can hope for that too!)

November in 5 years may be :D

min_t
Jul 3, 2007, 03:47 PM
There is no 3g chip. The phone has been disected, so no hidden 3g chip.

You know, it does not make much sence for Apple to produce multiple phones if the iPhone is already a world phone. I would imagine that the currently iphone already supports 3g, by one of the many unknown, apple branded chips and is turned off, or Apple is sticking with EDGE on both sides of the world.

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 03:47 PM
How common are free WiFi access points through out Europe? From memory Germany wasn't too bad when I was there, so if there is an abundance of free/open WiFi would it not be an okay alternative to 3G?

I mean throughout the EU not just in Germany. Maybe the teleco's could offer access to dedicated wifi networks with the monthly fees. Might the pain out of using EDGE in some areas

Plutonius
Jul 3, 2007, 03:47 PM
Please please please allow that phone to work on T-Mobile in the states. PLEASE! I have a birthday in November and this would be the best news for the year thus far. (3G on the same frequency is pushing it, but I can hope for that too!)

Apple has an exclusive agreement with AT&T in the states. Either switch to AT&T or wait till the agreement runs out (5 years I believe) and hope that T-Mobile in the states picks up the iPhone.

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 03:48 PM
Some guys over at Apfeltalk forums called Tmobile and it was confirmed.


it's like playing ping-pong at the moment

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:48 PM
No, but entirely willing to broaden my provincial horizons. Recommendations?


[I'll cease hijacking this thread now.]

Bushmills - google it with your iPhone ;)

kaos
Jul 3, 2007, 03:50 PM
Talisker. From Scotch-land.

Well, of course. I enjoy Talisker often. Nearly as often as Lagavulin 12yr.

The request was for Irish whisky recommendations.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:50 PM
How common are free WiFi access points through out Europe? From memory Germany wasn't too bad when I was there, so if there is an abundance of free/open WiFi would it not be an okay alternative to 3G?

I mean throughout the EU not just in Germany. Maybe the teleco's could offer access to dedicated wifi networks with the monthly fees. Might the pain out of using EDGE in some areas

Apparently, London has the best wifi coverage of any city in the world.

That's not a bad idea including wifi with a service plan; does AT&T do that in the US? Still think you'd need 3G, though.

C3POh
Jul 3, 2007, 03:50 PM
iPhone + Germany = T-Mobile

Deutsche Telekom's mobile-phone unit cuts deal with Apple for iPhone service in Germany, according to Rheinische Post.
July 3, 2007

By Reuters

Deutsche Telekom's mobile phone unit T-Mobile clinched a deal to bring Apple's iPhone handset to Germany, according to a report in a German daily.

Without citing sources, the Rheinische Post said in a preview of a story to be published on Wednesday that T-Mobile is expected to sell the iPhone exclusively with a T-Mobile contract for around €450 euros ($612) starting Nov 1.

Deutsche Telekom and T-Mobile were not immediately available for comment.

The iPhone, which comes with a built-in iPod, web browser, and e-mail software, went on sale in the United States on Friday.

Apple has signed up top U.S. telecoms operator AT&T in an exclusive deal for at least two years to sell the phone in the United States, where customers willing to sign a two-year contract are expected to pay $500 to $600 for a handset.

In Europe, Britain's Vodafone Group, Deutsche Telekom, Paris-based France Telecom, and Spain's Telefonica have been tipped as potential partners for Apple.

hdasmith
Jul 3, 2007, 03:51 PM
But if they do, they'll upset the American customers. So I doubt they will. Which is unfair really considering they get everything 1st anyway, surely people shouldn't be upset if we got a 3G version of the iPhone before them just once.

I believe we got Pirates of the Caribbean a day earlier in the UK than America.

We are you all so fussed about 3G?? I really don't understand. I have a Vodagroan 3G mobile (SonyEricsson V600i), and don't use 3G AT ALL! I don't do video calls, I don't use MMS. The iPhone is right up my street as is! I don't know anyone that does use the 3G functionality of their phone, even though they might have it.

I do think Apple are going to struggle with a market that expects a free phone when they sign a contract. No-body here, except for business users pay for phones when they sign a contract. Having said that, I think my whole family want to buy an iPhone, and with the dollar getting weaker, we might see a better price yet (although I doubt it).

fwhh
Jul 3, 2007, 03:51 PM
Free Wifi APs are not so common in germany...even in most hotels you have to pay for it...BUT... t-mobile owns a lot of wifi access points across germany. Most bars, if they offer wifi, have t-mobile hot-spots...

Dreyfus
Jul 3, 2007, 03:52 PM
T-Mobile comes from a socialist past when it was a state monopoly linked to the German Telecom.

Do you have any idea what "socialist" means? Germany has never been socialist and there is no free-market economy in socialism. T-Mobile was not linked to German Telecom, it was German Telecom.

At least in these days they had properly qualified staff, real engineers and highly trained support staff (they could even talk you through jumper settings and alternate configurations on the phone)... thanks to free market and stock exchange you now have butchers and bakers installing phone lines and poor underpaid people with strange accents on the "hotline"... great improvement that :(

Cheers

adamget
Jul 3, 2007, 03:52 PM
Agreed, I don't believe that Apple will upgrade the iPhone hardware before sometime next year (It takes time for design, testing, and approval. The current 3G chips will not fit in the iPhone packaging so it's not a trivial update). The countries that require 3G will get the iPhone but it will not be this year. Those countries that demand an unlocked phone will never see one at least until the AT&T agreement is concluded (5 years I believe).

What makes you sure they haven't already done it? Do you seriously think that this hasn't already been planned, built, tested and approved? They are hardly going to wait until the US launch and then start the next phase.

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:53 PM
I believe we got Pirates of the Caribbean a day earlier in the UK than America.

We are you all so fussed about 3G?? I really don't understand. I have a Vodagroan 3G mobile (SonyEricsson V600i), and don't use 3G AT ALL! I don't do video calls, I don't use MMS. The iPhone is right up my street as is! I don't know anyone that does use the 3G functionality of their phone, even though they might have it.

I do think Apple are going to struggle with a market that expects a free phone when they sign a contract. No-body here, except for business users pay for phones when they sign a contract. Having said that, I think my whole family want to buy an iPhone, and with the dollar getting weaker, we might see a better price yet (although I doubt it).

I feel happier now, knowing that about the film ;)

The point of the iPhone is that it has a very useable web browser, for which you would use 3G.

Actually, I use 3G already on my SE phone and many people do. MMS messages are very popular and they do send quicker on 3G.

kaos
Jul 3, 2007, 03:54 PM
Bushmills - google it with your iPhone ;)

No iPhone (yet). I carry a Blackberry for work, and really prefer a small phone for myself. Sticking with my Krzr for now.

Bushmills - I'll pick up some 16yr on the way home tonight.

Cheers!

phatspider
Jul 3, 2007, 03:55 PM
I believe we got Pirates of the Caribbean a day earlier in the UK than America.

We are you all so fussed about 3G?? I really don't understand. I have a Vodagroan 3G mobile (SonyEricsson V600i), and don't use 3G AT ALL! I don't do video calls, I don't use MMS. The iPhone is right up my street as is! I don't know anyone that does use the 3G functionality of their phone, even though they might have it.


To be honest then the way you use your phone i wouldnt bother with the iphone. I use 3G at least once a day either for web access, wap access or email on my phone. In fact if its not HSDPA 3G I think Apple would be missing a trick

C3POh
Jul 3, 2007, 03:55 PM
German press says iPhone coming to Europe 1 November (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/8511/9535/apple-iphone-german-launch-details.phtml)

T-Mobile rumoured to set date and price in Europe
by Stuart Miles


3 July 2007 - The rumours of an iPhone launch in Europe thicken even further today with the rumour that T-Mobile will be getting the iPhone in Germany on 1 November this year.

The news, picked up by The Washington Post from an article in German newspaper Rheinische Post, coincides with the news posted on Pocket-lint earlier today that contract legalities between German and UK lawyers caused delays of the announcement.

According to the article, the iPhone will sell for 450 euros (US $612). There has been no confirmation however, of the rumours the European version of the iPhone may incorporate 3G technology.

Apple hasn't confirmed a date for the launch in the UK other than it will be launched at the tail end of the year in Europe.

Earlier today rumours suggested that an announcement would be made on the sale of 1 million iPhones sold.

The rumour that T-Mobile alongside Vodafone would be getting the iPhone started Friday, with an announcement due on Monday 2 July, which however failed to materialise.

Quoting German sources, Guy Kewney from Newswireless.net reports today that so far the deal has been held up by legal wrangling, he quotes his sources:

"What we're hearing is that there was a contract drawn up in Germany; but that when Vodafone's Newbury lawyers saw it, they said they weren't signing a contract under German law, and it had to be re-drafted under UK legislation."

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 03:56 PM
iPhone + Germany = T-Mobile

Deutsche Telekom's mobile-phone unit cuts deal with Apple for iPhone service in Germany, according to Rheinische Post.
July 3, 2007

By Reuters


Don't forget: Handelsblatt denies! Handelsblatt is a very serious newspaper for economic issues... normally!

adamget
Jul 3, 2007, 03:57 PM
How common are free WiFi access points through out Europe? From memory Germany wasn't too bad when I was there, so if there is an abundance of free/open WiFi would it not be an okay alternative to 3G?

I mean throughout the EU not just in Germany. Maybe the teleco's could offer access to dedicated wifi networks with the monthly fees. Might the pain out of using EDGE in some areas

The UK is quite well served and getting better. There are plenty of paid-for access points in major cities as almost all public telephone boxes have WiFi points, and most coffee shops etc. However the good thing is that some cities are now providing free ubiquitious WiFi. Norwich was done recently and Leeds is soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/5297884.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4993038.stm

This will also work well for universities as most major UK unis have blanket WiFi for staff and students.

A

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 03:58 PM
No iPhone (yet). I carry a Blackberry for work, and really prefer a small phone for myself. Sticking with my Krzr for now.

Bushmills - I'll pick up some 16yr on the way home tonight.

Cheers!

Enjoy. They mature it in American malt whiskey barrels if my memory serves me correctly; Scotch uses sherry barrels, I believe. Oh, and it's spelled with an 'e' just like you guys do :)

C3POh
Jul 3, 2007, 03:58 PM
T-Mobile announcing German iPhone deal tomorrow?


Perhaps demonstrating how wide the rift between T-Mobile Europe and T-Mobile USA really is, Germany's Rheinische Post is reporting that Deutsche Telekom will announce tomorrow that its carrier unit will exclusively offer the iPhone in Germany. Details on the partnership are slim at best, but the two most important nuggets of information seem to be known: November 1 for €450 (about $612), which we assume is for the 8GB unit. Of course, the next biggest question is whether this'll be an EDGE or 3G unit -- and if it's 3G

DonSqueak
Jul 3, 2007, 03:59 PM
Do you have any idea what "socialist" means? Germany has never been socialist and there is no free-market economy in socialism. T-Mobile was not linked to German Telecom, it was German Telecom.

At least in these days they had properly qualified staff, real engineers and highly trained support staff (they could even talk you through jumper settings and alternate configurations on the phone)... thanks to free market and stock exchange you now have butchers and bakers installing phone lines and poor underpaid people with strange accents on the "hotline"... great improvement that :(

Cheers

All true but for the accent remark. I've had my share of experience with purely German hotline idiots.

Random Ping
Jul 3, 2007, 04:00 PM
seeing as apple just had 500,000 people buy a phone in June and there would be immense backlash, not to mention quite a small market for an updated iphone as everyone just bought one this week. Apple will not update the iPhone for christmas

I tend to agree. It would be a bad show by Apple to ship a 3G phone so soon after pushing out a 2.5G phone to its strongest supporters.

I think we will be seeing numerous software updates between now and Christmas, but no new hardware before MacWorld in January.

min_t
Jul 3, 2007, 04:00 PM
What do you guys need with a video camera on a phone?
Start saving your money. No iPhone subsidies.

Agreed, MMS and video recording/playback are musts, as is 3G. Personally, I think it will have to be subsidised, too, if it's sold with a contract.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 04:00 PM
We are you all so fussed about 3G?? I really don't understand. I have a Vodagroan 3G mobile (SonyEricsson V600i), and don't use 3G AT ALL! I don't do video calls, I don't use MMS. The iPhone is right up my street as is! I don't know anyone that does use the 3G functionality of their phone, even though they might have it.



That's because you have a Sony Ericsson, and this thread is about the iPhone which is trying to push the envelope as far as data goes.

The point is whether Apple will pull out a 3G iPhone this November or not. 3G is much more developed over here than in the US, the market in Europe is quite different. It would be interesting to see what will happen.

I think Apple will release the EDGE iPhone in November in Germany and then somewhere before the mid of 2008 release the 3G revision (along with the first release in Asia).

C3POh
Jul 3, 2007, 04:00 PM
According to news recently published via Reuters, T-Mobile - the mobile division of Germany’s D. Telekom - has landed distribution rights to the iPhone in Germany. T-Mobile will be the exclusive carrier of the Apple iPhone in Germany.

The brief indicates that the iPhone will go on sale in Germany on November 1st of this year and will retail for $450 Euros ($612 USD).

Though previous rumors have suggested that the first iPhone introduced in Europe will be a 3G HSDPA iPhone, there has been no confirmation exactly what version of the iPhone T-Mobile will be selling in Germany.

The 2.5G (EDGE) version of the iPhone, which went on sale on June 29th in the United States, is estimated by some analysts to have sold over 700,000 units in it’s first 3 days.

However, considering the maturity of European mobile services as compared to the US, one would imagine a 2.5G version of the iPhone would have little appeal to European consumers.

DonSqueak
Jul 3, 2007, 04:01 PM
No iPhone (yet). I carry a Blackberry for work, and really prefer a small phone for myself. Sticking with my Krzr for now.

Bushmills - I'll pick up some 16yr on the way home tonight.

Cheers!

And drink whisky with her? Ain't that sorta illegal?

hdasmith
Jul 3, 2007, 04:02 PM
To be honest then the way you use your phone i wouldnt bother with the iphone. I use 3G at least once a day either for web access, wap access or email on my phone. In fact if its not HSDPA 3G I think Apple would be missing a trick

Why not? I do use email and WAP on my phone, and the basic HTML stuff my phone will handle. It's very handy when I'm out sailing to be able to access the weather whenever seeing as the shipping forcast is only given twice a day. You don't normally get 3G coverage out there either. I also live in the sticks, where there's little to no 3G coverage. If we have an unlimited data plan, it really doesn't bother me setting the phone to receive emails while I go and tend to the helm or play with the sheets.

German
Jul 3, 2007, 04:03 PM
Hi Guys

According to Handelsblatt (http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/Unternehmen/IT-Medien/_pv/_p/201197/_t/ft/_b/1289241/default.aspx/gerangel-um-deutschen-iphone-vertrieb-geht-weiter.html) it is still open, who will be the winner of the mobile campanies in germany.

Random Ping
Jul 3, 2007, 04:03 PM
You'll be fine, just keep away from airport doors ;)

My biggest threat of death in London came from crossing the streets. As you are about to step off the curb, don't forget to look RIGHT -- that is where the killer car will come from.

C3POh
Jul 3, 2007, 04:04 PM
European iPhone deal to be announced when US sales hit one million
Sales estimates suggest it could be as soon as the end of the week

3 July 2007 - All was quiet on Monday following predictions of a big Apple announcement to confirm Vodafone, T-Mobile and Carphone Warehouse as the joint three vendors of the iPhone in Europe, but according to Newswireless.net, who broke the story, there's a good reason...

Apple is hoping to announce successful sales figures of one million iPhones sold by Thursday, which sources say will be the moment to reveal the European iPhone deal.

Quoting German sources, Guy Kewney says that so far the deal has been held up by legal wranglings, he quotes his sources:

"What we're hearing is that there was a contract drawn up in Germany; but that when Vodafone's Newbury lawyers saw it, they said they weren't signing a contract under German law, and it had to be re-drafted under UK legislation."

Apple has yet to announce official sales figures for the iPhone, although there is no doubt that the launch was a success with the most recent estimates from industry analysts coming in at 700,000 sold so far.

Apparently completed "activation" of iPhone accounts on the AT&T network shows 600,000 active users.

This would mean that if Newswireless.net's German sources are on the money, it could be as soon as the end of the week to hear those golden words: "iPhone", "Europe" and "3G"...

phatspider
Jul 3, 2007, 04:05 PM
Why not? I do use email and WAP on my phone, and the basic HTML stuff my phone will handle. It's very handy when I'm out sailing to be able to access the weather whenever seeing as the shipping forcast is only given twice a day. You don't normally get 3G coverage out there either. I also live in the sticks, where there's little to no 3G coverage. If we have an unlimited data plan, it really doesn't bother me setting the phone to receive emails while I go and tend to the helm or play with the sheets.

fair do's - guess i'm spoilt - i live (and work) in the vodafone homeland of newbury and use 3g all the time. plus use it on my laptop with a plug in usb modem - its now pretty much a permanent fixture in my macbook pro

matthutch
Jul 3, 2007, 04:05 PM
Apparently, London has the best wifi coverage of any city in the world.

That's not a bad idea including wifi with a service plan; does AT&T do that in the US? Still think you'd need 3G, though.

No doubt, as a stop gap measure it might be good :)

If they don't release a 3G model in Asia it might be a good way to keep customer numbers up, as there are open networks everywhere - makes it good if you happen to have a Macbook in your bag ;)

phatspider
Jul 3, 2007, 04:06 PM
Hi Guis

According to Handelsblatt (http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/Unternehmen/IT-Medien/_pv/_p/201197/_t/ft/_b/1289241/default.aspx/gerangel-um-deutschen-iphone-vertrieb-geht-weiter.html) it is still open, who will be the winner of the mobile campanies in germany.

So maybe Voda and T Mob will get it in Germany then - and the same in UK and other parts of Europe?

imageforce
Jul 3, 2007, 04:08 PM
:) i`m with t-mobile and i feared i`d have to switch to vodafone or even worse (to o2)

no UMTS is a no-go!! noone would want EDGE an a phone like that in Europe!

but didn`t apple say, they chose EDGE over UMTS because the 3G chips raped batterylife? :) that would mean less batterylife in europe? hmm

anyways - i`ll buy one and i`m the only one i know, who will :)

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 04:09 PM
European iPhone deal to be announced when US sales hit one million
Sales estimates suggest it could be as soon as the end of the week

3 July 2007 - All was quiet on Monday following predictions of a big Apple announcement to confirm Vodafone, T-Mobile and Carphone Warehouse as the joint three vendors of the iPhone in Europe, but according to Newswireless.net, who broke the story, there's a good reason...

Apple is hoping to announce successful sales figures of one million iPhones sold by Thursday, which sources say will be the moment to reveal the European iPhone deal.

Quoting German sources, Guy Kewney says that so far the deal has been held up by legal wranglings, he quotes his sources:

"What we're hearing is that there was a contract drawn up in Germany; but that when Vodafone's Newbury lawyers saw it, they said they weren't signing a contract under German law, and it had to be re-drafted under UK legislation."

Apple has yet to announce official sales figures for the iPhone, although there is no doubt that the launch was a success with the most recent estimates from industry analysts coming in at 700,000 sold so far.

Apparently completed "activation" of iPhone accounts on the AT&T network shows 600,000 active users.

This would mean that if Newswireless.net's German sources are on the money, it could be as soon as the end of the week to hear those golden words: "iPhone", "Europe" and "3G"...

Are you quoting this from somewhere else? If so, then it would be nice to provide links to the sources :). Thanks.

4God
Jul 3, 2007, 04:10 PM
Apple has an exclusive agreement with AT&T in the states. Either switch to AT&T or wait till the agreement runs out (5 years I believe) and hope that T-Mobile in the states picks up the iPhone.

True, exclusive - but for how long? Nobody outside of Apple elite knows. Exlusivity could be for 90 days as far as we know. 2 years? 5 years? It's anybody's guess.

German
Jul 3, 2007, 04:11 PM
So maybe Voda and T Mob will get it in Germany then - and the same in UK and other parts of Europe?

I don't know but i can tell you that I know a lot of people who really dislike Vodafone. Vodafone is also famouse for making a really ugly branding on the phones. I guess that Apple will say No to this, if they make the deal :D

King Crimson
Jul 3, 2007, 04:11 PM
not, not the same language but quite close. dutch sounds like a weired mixture between german and english. i was once sitting in a train next to a dutch couple and constantly wondering whether they were german or british. it took me literally half an hour to figure out that they were dutch.....


Well, just don't say "Gesundheit" everytime you hear a dutchman speak :D

German
Jul 3, 2007, 04:11 PM
Are you quoting this from somewhere else? If so, then it would be nice to provide links to the sources :). Thanks.

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/8504/9528/European-iPhone-one-million-sold.phtml

killerrobot
Jul 3, 2007, 04:11 PM
I think everyone's missing the point of all of this.
WHY GERMANY FIRST???? IT'S NOT FAIR!:(

I believe it's going to have to be 3G. Even Spain (we're the most behind anyone in Europe) has a massive 3G network. I don't see them changing anything else though about it.

joeshell383
Jul 3, 2007, 04:12 PM
True, exclusive - but for how long? Nobody outside of Apple elite knows. Exlusivity could be for 90 days as far as we know. 2 years? 5 years? It's anybody's guess.

Stan Sigman (AT&T Mobility head) said on stage at Macworld that it is a multi-year exclusive partnership.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 04:12 PM
:) i`m with t-mobile and i feared i`d have to switch to vodafone or even worse (to o2)


Take that Back :mad:, I have been using o2 for 3 years now and they are a solid carrier :p :D

ps: I see you are in Hamburg. I did my Master's there, awesome city :).

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 04:13 PM
What do you guys need with a video camera on a phone?
Start saving your money. No iPhone subsidies.

How else are you going to film bomb attacks? :D

Seriously, a video camera on a phone is very useful for times when you don't have a real camcorder with you. You can also MMS video clips. I tell you, a top-price phone without video will flop.

hdasmith
Jul 3, 2007, 04:13 PM
That's because you have a Sony Ericsson, and this thread is about the iPhone which is trying to push the envelope as far as data goes.

The point is whether Apple will pull out a 3G iPhone this November or not. 3G is much more developed over here than in the US, the market in Europe is quite different. It would be interesting to see what will happen.

I think Apple will release the EDGE iPhone in November in Germany and then somewhere before the mid of 2008 release the 3G revision (along with the first release in Asia).

What's wrong with SonyEricsson? Much better than Nokia. Actually they're all much a like as they all got together and formed another company to make the OS. All they really do is skin the OS for their phone. This is where Apple is really different. They've created a much better OS for a phone. Data rates have little to do with it.

I realise that 3G has better coverage here, but that doesn't mean it's used. When I'm not sailing or living in the sticks, I'm in Newcastle where I'm studying electronic engineering. I'm normally the first person that buys a new piece of technology. 3G didn't do anything for me. Wi-fi is much more important. In Newcastle I'm always in a hotspot. Outside Newcastle I'm never in a 3G area.

I actually can see it makes sense for T-Mobile to carry the iPhone here as well, as they do have the highest number of hotspots of all the carriers. If the data plan includes access to those hotspots, then perfect.

4God
Jul 3, 2007, 04:14 PM
Stan Sigman (AT&T Mobility head) said on stage at Macworld that it is a multi-year exclusive partnership.

My bad, I thought he said multi-year partnership and used the word exclusive in a different sentence meaning something else.

phatspider
Jul 3, 2007, 04:14 PM
I don't know but i can tell you that I know a lot of people who really dislike Vodafone. Vodafone is also famouse for making a really ugly branding on the phones. I guess that Apple will say No to this, if they make the deal :D

Theyre actually moving away from this external branding a little recently and even when they do its fairly subtle.

That said no way would Apple let it happen so i reckon short of maybe a Voda logo on start up screen and menu bar it will be as apple decide

I'm a little biased - but Voda is the best network in the uK - not the cheapest neccasarily but best for service

wizzerandchips
Jul 3, 2007, 04:14 PM
Sheesh I remember when the dollar was worth more than the Euro...if they update that iPhone to 3G without first doing it in the US I think a lot of people will be pissed...

What is going on with that Qualcomm chip ban thing anyway? I thought that was upheld so a lot of phone companies can't make 3G phones right now :confused:

im guessing 4 out of 5 people have a mobile here in europe.cos were special :p

Dreyfus
Jul 3, 2007, 04:14 PM
All true but for the accent remark. I've had my share of experience with purely German hotline idiots.

You have a point there - I did not mean to suggest that the answers are poor because there are foreigners involved, if a German, Indian or whatever is reading the wrong information from a screen does not really make a difference. Heck, when IBM still had the German hotline in Bavaria, I begged them a couple of times to transfer my call to Bangalore or the US to increase my chance of understanding something :cool:

Cheers

sam10685
Jul 3, 2007, 04:14 PM
Hopefully T-mobile in the US signs with Apple. I'd like to get an iPhone but won't go to AT&T.

Plutonius
Jul 3, 2007, 04:15 PM
What makes you sure they haven't already done it?

Anything is possible but I doubt it.

Apple put all it's resources (including OSX 10.5 people) into getting the iPhone released in June. They might have started work on version 2 of the iPhone but I doubt that it's too far along. Putting in a 3G chip would alone require a major repackaging of the iPhone due to the chips larger size and you would need new tooling at the factories to produce the new iPhones. The new iPhones would then need testing and CE approval before they could be shipped overseas. I'm assuming that you would then need the telco regulatory approval (similar to FCC) from each country before the iPhone can be used.

I stand by my prediction that you will not see a 3G iPhone till next year.

EdwardNygma
Jul 3, 2007, 04:16 PM
Hello people, first post ever from a quiet reader for almost five years. And live from Germany, too... :)

The deal with T-Mobile seems not to be final as of now! According to information the very respected german business paper "Handelsblatt" seems to have acquired the "Rheinische Post" report is wrong.

"Gerangel um deutschen iPhone-Vertrieb geht weiter –
Der Bieterkampf um den exklusiven Vertrieb des Apple-Handys iPhone in Deutschland ist noch nicht zuende: Die Meldung, T-Mobile habe wegen eines nachgebesserten Angabots den Zuschlag erhalten, ist nach Handelsblatt-Informationen falsch."

Translation:

"Bidders struggle for exclusive iPhone distribution continues –
Bidders fight for exclusive distribution of Apple's iPhone is not over: the report, T-Mobile had the winning bid due to the best offer is wrong, according to information "Handelsblatt" acquired from the company milieu."

"Handelsblatt" article (http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/Unternehmen/IT-Medien/_pv/_p/201197/_t/ft/_b/1289241/default.aspx/gerangel-um-deutschen-iphone-vertrieb-geht-weiter.html)


Let's keep our fingers crossed - GO VODA! ;)

Random Ping
Jul 3, 2007, 04:19 PM
I remember reading somewhere (here most likely) that network coverage, battery life and size concerns were the biggest factors in not going 3G.

That is generally the argument.

However... I have never seen anyone actually show the difference size or battery drain rates of 3G chips versus EDGE chips. Does anyone know of any actual numbers?

appie57
Jul 3, 2007, 04:20 PM
If this holds for The Netherlands as well, then I won't even need to get a new simcard (maybe)... :D I like T-Mobile. I've had a very good experience with them.

Same for me. Hoping for T-mobile in the Netherlands; seems likely in view of their presence here.

SeaFox
Jul 3, 2007, 04:21 PM
Apple has an exclusive agreement with AT&T in the states. Either switch to AT&T or wait till the agreement runs out (5 years I believe) and hope that T-Mobile in the states picks up the iPhone.

You know, I keep seeing posts like this saying that the German T-Mobile iPhone will not work on the U.S. T-Mobile network, but none of them have actually backed that up with any technical information.

Whatever is keeping people from swapping AT&T SIMs around on the American iPhone is the only thing that's going to keep a German iPhone from working in the states. Once that lock is defeated by the people already working on it, yup, you'll be able to use it here.

Actually, since users of the German iPhone may want to travel to America, and be able to make calls roaming on T-Mobile's American network, they would have to be able to work over here, too.

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 04:22 PM
Anything is possible but I doubt it.

Apple put all it's resources (including OSX 10.5 people) into getting the iPhone released in June. They might have started work on version 2 of the iPhone but I doubt that it's too far along. Putting in a 3G chip would alone require a major repackaging of the iPhone due to the chips larger size and you would need new tooling at the factories to produce the new iPhones.

There is still empty space in the iPhone!

http://mitglied.lycos.de/px80/iphone_emptyspace.jpg

Plutonius
Jul 3, 2007, 04:23 PM
True, exclusive - but for how long? Nobody outside of Apple elite knows. Exlusivity could be for 90 days as far as we know. 2 years? 5 years? It's anybody's guess.

http://www.mobile-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=113009G7ZWVQ

5 years exclusive (in the states) with AT&T according to all the reports I read.

Random Ping
Jul 3, 2007, 04:24 PM
All but the 3G could be added through software/firmware updates couldn't it?

A few months back there was a story about Apple purchasing chips that could both decode and encode H.264. Now Apple has been revealed that one reason Apple prefers H.264 for the iPhone (as opposed to something like flash) is that Apple has H.264 hardware decoders in the iPhone that don't drain the battery nearly as much as the software-based solutions.

Apple may want to wait until the iPhone also has H.264 hardware encoders in the iPhone before allowing it to do video.

jamesnp
Jul 3, 2007, 04:25 PM
The phone will go on sale in November, and will retail for EUR450 a piece, according to the newspaper, citing sources within the company. T-Mobile declined to comment.

450 euro is a bit steep for a network locked phone. I work for a major Irish network and the research we've done says that the Europeans that would usually pay more than 400 euro for a phone, are the very people that care if their phone is locked or not.

Also, if there's no 3G on the phone in Europe, then it will be an utter flop. People like to go forward with technology, why take a step a few years backwards?

-jp

min_t
Jul 3, 2007, 04:28 PM
Please please please allow that phone to work on T-Mobile in the states. PLEASE! I have a birthday in November and this would be the best news for the year thus far. (3G on the same frequency is pushing it, but I can hope for that too!)

You need to drink the koolaid. Unless a hack is found, AT&T will be your rear-service violator.

CanadianGuy
Jul 3, 2007, 04:29 PM
Hello? How about us north of the border?

How long do we have to wait?

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 04:30 PM
AT&T will be your rear-service violator.

That sounds uncomfortable:eek:

Philsy
Jul 3, 2007, 04:31 PM
Hello? How about us north of the border?

How long do we have to wait?

Can't you just pop over the border? Or are you wanting 3G too?

Plutonius
Jul 3, 2007, 04:33 PM
There is still empty space in the iPhone!

Anything is possible but Apple claimed that size was one of the reasons the iPhone didn't have 3G in the phone when it released. The empty space may not be readily usable space in terms of the 3G chip.

Flipstar
Jul 3, 2007, 04:36 PM
Hello? How about us north of the border?

How long do we have to wait?

I call we'll be after Europe.. Probably in December. Sorta like what they did to us with iTunes.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 04:36 PM
Anything is possible but Apple claimed that size was one of the reasons the iPhone didn't have 3G in the phone when it released.

Then again Apple claimed alot of things in the past that were not really true.

bbcxx
Jul 3, 2007, 04:38 PM
I think what Apple is doing is, release the iPhone with EDGE in the United States, and release it in any other countries that has EDGE, if the carrier is willing to bend over for Apple. If those two conditions are met, your country gets the iPhone.

If either one of those conditions are not met, no iPhone for you. At least until Apple feels that the United States market is ready for 3G, then it will release a 3G iPhone for the US, and then release the iPhone to those countries omitted because of the conditions above.

I'm from Europe and I really do think the same. I don't belive they will switch to 3G.
But reading all this... I'm on 3 (carrier), which is all about promoting 3G services. The connection to the net is great and with Opera mini I got the "real" internet a while ago. Lacks Flash, as Safari on the iPhone. You're not able to do the fancy stuff (i.e. zoom), but works with almost every phone...

The iPhone... the hype is a success, looks great, user interface is surley better then on other phones...but I would never sign a contract just becouse of the phone. Makes no sense to me.

Ireland
Jul 3, 2007, 04:38 PM
Isn't 3G pretty much the only way to go in Europe?
For the iPhone? NO QUESTION!!

killerrobot
Jul 3, 2007, 04:42 PM
Anything is possible but Apple claimed that size was one of the reasons the iPhone didn't have 3G in the phone when it released. The empty space may not be readily usable space in terms of the 3G chip.

How big do you exactly think a 3G chip is? I'm pretty sure the iPhone is bigger than 90% of these phones (http://tienda.vodafone.es/do/catalogo/moviles/todos?priceRange=&brand=&caracteristica=1).

If you believe Apple saying that, then I'll go ahead and sell you my 3G iPhone that was already sent to me by Apple for testing. ;)

phatspider
Jul 3, 2007, 04:43 PM
How big do you exactly think a 3G chip is? I'm pretty sure the iPhone is bigger than 90% of these phones (http://tienda.vodafone.es/do/catalogo/moviles/todos?priceRange=&brand=&caracteristica=1).

If you believe Apple saying that, then I'll go ahead and sell you my 3G iPhone that was already sent to me by Apple for testing. ;)

exactly - i have a w880 amogst other phones and its super thin and has decent battery so apple are making it up!

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 04:50 PM
How big do you exactly think a 3G chip is?

e.g.

http://mitglied.lycos.de/px80/iphone_chippp.jpg

twoodcc
Jul 3, 2007, 04:50 PM
i think this is good.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 04:52 PM
The iPhone... the hype is a success, looks great, user interface is surley better then on other phones...but I would never sign a contract just becouse of the phone. Makes no sense to me.

Quite Frankly, I have gone through many mobile phones in my life and I was frustrated at every single one of them. As a software developer, there were/are many tiny things in each one that pissed the hell out of me that I just wanted to smash my head up the nearest wall. I would switch to any operator if you give me a decent phone that makes sense.

Plutonius
Jul 3, 2007, 04:53 PM
Then again Apple claimed alot of things in the past that were not really true.

True but Apple would have had 3G in the iPhone at it's release if it was that easy. Only time will tell but my prediction is that the T-Mobile Germany iPhone will be EDGE and that you will not see a next gen iPhone with 3G until sometime next year. I'm assuming that like the states, each countries approval process (similar to the FCC) is a public process so you should get a multi month advanced notice before an iPhone is going into a specific country.

tripwire
Jul 3, 2007, 04:54 PM
Roaming has got to be the biggest rip-off anyone could imagine.

Well your government (and those of other southern European countries) are to blame for that.
They resisted a drastic reduction in roaming charges.

killerrobot
Jul 3, 2007, 04:55 PM
e.g.

linked image (http://mitglied.lycos.de/px80/iphone_chippp.jpg)

Is that actual size?

bilbo--baggins
Jul 3, 2007, 04:55 PM
If they start releasing the iPhone in Europe in November, the June 2007 US launch will seem like a distant memory. Historically Apple has updated products within a similar time scale. Look at the Apple TV as a very recent example, and the improved graphics card in the original iMac.

However, I'm torn between believing the European version will be 3G or EDGE.

Weighing up the evidence:

EDGE:
Steve Jobs apparently stated that there are no 3G chips that will fit into the case of the iPhone, and current chips drain too much battery.
Asia is more likely to NEED a 3G version, and Apple have stated Asia will get the iPhone in 2008 (not being specific, likely will mean mid to end of 2008).
Product updates from Apple currently seem to be slower than expected (except the hard drive upgrade in the Apple TV). Just look at the long overdue iMac, lack of Blue-Ray, no iLife 07 etc etc.

3G:
Even in Europe 3G makes the most sense. Most networks don't have EDGE (only Orange in the UK), and 3G is well established now. Next generation beyond 3G is already being developed.
More important as wifi access points are scarce in many areas, and free wifi is out of the question (London and a few other big cities may be exceptions...). Paid wifi access is very expensive, only worthwhile for heavy/regular users.
Vodafone doesn't have Edge in the UK, so if they're considering the iPhone they would be nuts to sell an iPhone that can only work at GPRS speeds.

Obviously the iPhone announcement was amazing - and it proves to be far better than I could have imagined an iPhone could be - but other than the iPhone I've been fairly underwhelmed by Apple's updates/annoucements recently. WWDC was a real disappointment, not even any exciting new features in Leopard that hadn't been shown previously. Therefore while I would love to see a 3G version of the iPhone in the UK in November (but only if they don't make it thicker, and it still has good battery life), my money would be on them bringing out the same EDGE model as currently on sale in the US, followed by a 3G version late 2008.

Compile 'em all
Jul 3, 2007, 04:58 PM
True but Apple would have had 3G in the iPhone at it's release if it was that easy. Only time will tell but my prediction is that the T-Mobile Germany iPhone will be EDGE and that you will not see a next gen iPhone with 3G until sometime next year. I'm assuming that like the states, each countries approval process (similar to the FCC) is a public process so you should get a multi month advanced notice before an iPhone is going into a specific country.

I completely agree with your prediction. see my posts earlier. Anyway, lets hope for the best, a 3G iphone that is :D.

direzz
Jul 3, 2007, 05:05 PM
um what about canada????

iphone in canada!!

rish
Jul 3, 2007, 05:07 PM
Have to say that I'm chomping at the bit on news of an iPhone release in the UK. I have not renewed my contract for now 2 years since the news of an iPhone in development.

As for the 3G question. Most mobile telephones in europe are 3g however the number of people actually using 3g facilites is seriously limited. Personally I don't believe it will make a huge difference, however it gives the iPhone more of an advantage in europe to be 3g than not, people are stupid. They want all the features and tech such as 3g but when it comes to actually using them its a very different story.

The number of people who I know have 3G phones always show me what it can do but don't really use the 3G functions. There is also the cost issue, which is significant.

Edge or 2.5G is fine for me, the spec and the UI is far beyond anything any of the other manufacturers can bring to market. The Prata sorry Prada phone is being show boated as being the same as the iPhone. In recent weeks I've seen some really negative Apple news predominantly from the BBC, check out their technology news and see the phones they are making comparisons with as being touch screen tech in market today. Really, really lame.

admadan
Jul 3, 2007, 05:16 PM
so could I buy a german iphone, and put my US tmobile sim card in it, and use it here in the US?

Actually maybe. My friend came to visit me out here in germany and brought her T-mobile US Razr v3 that was locked. When I inserted my E-Plus (germany) SIM card it naturally asked for the unlock code, but I was able to get ahold of my neighbors German T-Mobile Sim card and put it in the Razr and it worked just fine. The locked razr was able to use the german t-mobile sim card and actually work. I ended up unlocking her phone afterwards, just so she can use what ever network she wants, but my point is that it worked. So in theory a german iPhone might just work with an american t-mobile SIM card. Heck the phone I'm using right now is a T-mobile phone I bought back in CA. It worked just fine with the T-Mobile SIM card i had in it when I 1st came to germany. I now wish I weren't headed back home in Aug.

jonatron
Jul 3, 2007, 05:18 PM
Have to say that I'm chomping at the bit on news of an iPhone release in the UK. I have not renewed my contract for now 2 years since the news of an iPhone in development.

As for the 3G question. Most mobile telephones in europe are 3g however the number of people actually using 3g facilites is seriously limited. Personally I don't believe it will make a huge difference, however it gives the iPhone more of an advantage in europe to be 3g than not, people are stupid. They want all the features and tech such as 3g but when it comes to actually using them its a very different story.

The number of people who I know have 3G phones always show me what it can do but don't really use the 3G functions. There is also the cost issue, which is significant.

Edge or 2.5G is fine for me, the spec and the UI is far beyond anything any of the other manufacturers can bring to market. The Prata sorry Prada phone is being show boated as being the same as the iPhone. In recent weeks I've seen some really negative Apple news predominantly from the BBC, check out their technology news and see the phones they are making comparisons with as being touch screen tech in market today. Really, really lame.

I know, the bbc have been terrible. Their iphone 'review' was done by someone who had a go on the display model in the store and even filmed himself doing it! Rubbish reporting.

I agree with you about the 3g thing too. Ive had it 2 years now and all i ever do is download email headers and visit a few webpages. The 3g thing is just a buzz word. Ok so itsfaster but how many people actually use it to its full advantage? I hear people saying all the time about how a phone is rubbish if it doesnt have 3g. A load of tripe if you ask me.

hdasmith
Jul 3, 2007, 05:26 PM
You know, I keep seeing posts like this saying that the German T-Mobile iPhone will not work on the U.S. T-Mobile network, but none of them have actually backed that up with any technical information.

Whatever is keeping people from swapping AT&T SIMs around on the American iPhone is the only thing that's going to keep a German iPhone from working in the states. Once that lock is defeated by the people already working on it, yup, you'll be able to use it here.

Actually, since users of the German iPhone may want to travel to America, and be able to make calls roaming on T-Mobile's American network, they would have to be able to work over here, too.

There was an article on MacUser.co.uk stating that a company has managed to crack the network lock, but in doing so, the iPhone doesn't function properly. Syncing with iTunes apparently doesn't work.

Roaming is very different from changing the SIM. Roaming works on an agreement between your operator and operators in the country you're visiting. A phone locked to a particular network reads network information embedded on the SIM. With the iPhone, it seems that if the iPhone doesn't see the embedded network information, the phone simply doesn't work properly.

A GSM quad band phone will work in any country allowing for roaming, but the phone still needs to see that it has the correct network SIM installed. My Vodafone phone works in other countries, and uses the Vodafone network where there is one, but I have to have roaming set-up and pay the roaming charges (thankfully, with Vodafone, that means a small connection charge, then I can use my contract minutes).

hdasmith
Jul 3, 2007, 05:28 PM
Actually maybe. My friend came to visit me out here in germany and brought her T-mobile US Razr v3 that was locked. When I inserted my E-Plus (germany) SIM card it naturally asked for the unlock code, but I was able to get ahold of my neighbors German T-Mobile Sim card and put it in the Razr and it worked just fine. The locked razr was able to use the german t-mobile sim card and actually work. I ended up unlocking her phone afterwards, just so she can use what ever network she wants, but my point is that it worked. So in theory a german iPhone might just work with an american t-mobile SIM card. Heck the phone I'm using right now is a T-mobile phone I bought back in CA. It worked just fine with the T-Mobile SIM card i had in it when I 1st came to germany. I now wish I weren't headed back home in Aug.

It does depend on how the lock is initiated. I would imagine Apple would incorporate a different lock so that they don't brake their agreement with AT&T in America. The lock is software based, reading the SIM. It would be very easy to make it country dependent.

bilbo--baggins
Jul 3, 2007, 05:32 PM
I hear people saying all the time about how a phone is rubbish if it doesnt have 3g. A load of tripe if you ask me.

I've used internet browsers on the iMate PDA2K using GPRS and it was unbearably slow. I'm currently using the SE M600i which has 3G and the Opera browser, and it's tolerable but can be a bit unreliable (some pages just never finish loading).

It depends what you want the phone for, but if you plan to use Safari on the iPhone and aren't near (or cannot afford to use) a wifi hotspot then having to use GPRS (which is all the current iPhone would get if on Vodafone in the UK) would make it pretty much unusable.

Mind you, I watched a YouTube video (on my Apple TV!) this evening where someone shows off their iPhone, including playing YouTube videos over EDGE. I'm honestly amazed it works. From my experience of 3G I never imagined that you could get any worthwhile video streaming over EDGE.

phatspider
Jul 3, 2007, 05:33 PM
I know, the bbc have been terrible. Their iphone 'review' was done by someone who had a go on the display model in the store and even filmed himself doing it! Rubbish reporting.

I agree with you about the 3g thing too. Ive had it 2 years now and all i ever do is download email headers and visit a few webpages. The 3g thing is just a buzz word. Ok so itsfaster but how many people actually use it to its full advantage? I hear people saying all the time about how a phone is rubbish if it doesnt have 3g. A load of tripe if you ask me.

well horses for courses

i use 3g and still find it slow - 3.6mbps is now avilable if you're device supports it (which mine does) and its great to get that speed out and about

gnasher729
Jul 3, 2007, 05:34 PM
This blows :mad:. I am on o2, oh well, guess I have to switch :(

Which is exactly why probably in every country _one_ phone company will declare how proud they are to offer you an iPhone, and the other phone companies will desperately try to convince you that they never wanted to sell it in the first place :D

Random Ping
Jul 3, 2007, 05:38 PM
The 3g thing is just a buzz word. Ok so itsfaster but how many people actually use it to its full advantage?

In the US, before the iPhone came out few people even cared about 3G. Sure, some use it, but how many howels of protests did you hear when the BlackBerry Curve came out on AT&T with only EDGE? Basically none.

Now that Apple has shown the potential of fast networking in a mobile phone, 3G is suddenly critical.

While 3G network providers might not have the iPhone now, they must love all the positive attention they are getting. Now everyone considering a mobile device will ask, "Does it have 3G?" Apple's iPhone has made 3G important.

Frazzle
Jul 3, 2007, 05:42 PM
You shouldn't look at 3G from your own perspective. Look at what the networks in Europe paid to get 3G. Their whole strategy is now based on making 3G work for them (they each paid several billion Euros to the governments to get their 3G licenses - it makes the profit on the iPhone seem like small potatoes) but they have been terribly let down by handset manufacturers that have not produced user-friendly devices to take advantage of it. Joe Public has no need for 3G because using it is way too difficult.

What Apple has now released could be the killer device for 3G. Here's a phone that relies heavily on data and is usable by your average person in the street. People are practically addicted to the internet and this is the device that finally makes the internet really portable and usable. I think the networks are engaged in a fierce battle to get the iPhone. All these rumours and talk of the arrogance of Apple are simply part of that battle - or maybe even strategies to influence negotiations.

I predict we will get a 3G iPhone. I think Steve Jobs will tell the US that in the time since they started the first design of the iPhone, the 3G chips have come a long way and this allowed them to update the phone fairly quickly. Like he said to Jonathan Ive in the keynote: "It's been two-and-a-half years..." - and in the end, what's $600 to Apple? You'll have had your fun with the phone for 6 months already. No doubt AT&T will allow you to upgrade the hardware under your contract. They must have foreseen that.

This hardware decision is the only thing that matters. Everything that can be solved in software (like MMS and all the other nitpicks) will eventually be solved, no doubt.

I used to be in PR - I'd announce some major software upgrades to the US phone at or around the same time as the 3G for Europe announcement. If they really fear backlash, they may even announce some step-up program for the 'launch customers'. Or they could allow the 'old' iPhone to be unlocked whenever the new version comes out - so for the latest hardware you need to stay at AT&T and all the switchers will be rewarded for moving to AT&T, but you can sell your old phone to anyone else. It would only increase the market penetration of the iPhone. Just some ideas.

ReMaDi
Jul 3, 2007, 05:45 PM
Fake! T-Mobile is not the carrier, says the newspaper "Handelsblatt":

http://www.handelsblatt.com/news/Unternehmen/IT-Medien/_pv/_p/201197/_t/ft/_b/1289241/default.aspx/gerangel-um-deutschen-iphone-vertrieb-geht-weiter.html

Der Bieterkampf um den exklusiven Vertrieb des Apple-Handys iPhone in Deutschland ist noch nicht zuende: Die Meldung, T-Mobile habe wegen eines nachgebesserten Angebots den Zuschlag erhalten, ist nach Handelsblatt-Informationen falsch.

Translation:
"The bidder contest around the exclusive selling of the Apple iPhone in Germany is not yet over: The news, T-mobile was chosen after they sweetened their offer [in the last second before some other provider would have been selected by Apple], is false according to Handelsblatt informations."

ABM
Jul 3, 2007, 05:49 PM
Fake! T-Mobile is not the carrier, says the newspaper "Handelsblatt":
Does anybody read before posting? It's already posted several times within the last 1 1/2 hours.

timswim78
Jul 3, 2007, 05:51 PM
Isn't 3G pretty much the only way to go in the U.S.?<--corrected

Why, yes it is!

Random Ping
Jul 3, 2007, 05:52 PM
I've used internet browsers on the iMate PDA2K using GPRS and it was unbearably slow. I'm currently using the SE M600i which has 3G and the Opera browser, and it's tolerable but can be a bit unreliable (some pages just never finish loading).

A common refrain I have heard many times (and experienced myself) is that browsing the Internet on mobile devices generally sucks, so speed, while important, was not the sole concerns.

Now that Apple, while not perfecting, has incredibly advanced the enjoyment of browsing the Internet on a mobile device, the lack of speed becomes very important. In other words, if your experience sucked whether you were using WiFi or EDGE, then EDGE wasn't considered an issue. But now that with the iPhone there is a dramatic difference in experience between WiFi and EDGE, EDGE is a big issue.

blurtigo
Jul 3, 2007, 05:54 PM
I agree with those that say this points to the European iPhone not having 3G.

For the UK that would suggest Orange will get it, as they are the only ones to have an EDGE compatible network here:

http://www.orangepartner.com/site/enuk/news/press/p_edge_launch.jsp

ReMaDi
Jul 3, 2007, 06:04 PM
Does anybody read before posting? It's already posted several times within the last 1 1/2 hours.

Damn! I only searched the last comment page.