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zero2dash
Jul 3, 2007, 06:39 PM
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/03/online-multiplayer-a-no-go-in-metroid-prime-3/

Michael Kelbeugh, head of Retro Studios, confirmed to GamePro that no online multiplayer would be included in Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

/snip

For his part, Kelbeugh gave the credit for a top-notch single-player campaign for his team's inability to include newfangled multiplayer technology. "It's something we talked about early on, but we only have so many resources. We opted to devote those resources to making a better single-player experience." Oh well, we guess there's always Metroid Prime 4.

Such BS. :mad:
Why does Nintendo even ever mention online play anymore?
Why did they include WiFi in their last two systems (DS + Wii) when it goes unused 99% of the time?
Why even hype it like it's a feature when you won't even bother using it?
By the time they get off their butts and implement it on more than 2-5 games per console, they will be so far behind in that area that their online experience will be like comparing the Flintstones to the Jetsons.

Give me a break guys.
Quit with the excuses. People want online play in their games and in this day and age when your competition is leaving you in the dust in that area, your excuses are just becoming more and more retarded.

Work on it. Get it done. This isn't rocket science. :mad:

I'm sorry, but this is just fkn ridiculous.
It's not feasible to say "Nintendo, you blew it" this early in the game, but you know what? Forget that. Nintendo did blow it with their online. AGAIN. At this point in time, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in Nintendo to release a competent online console experience. For the love of god, systems 10 years ago had online play through add-ons like the Xband (SNES, Genesis) and the NetLink (Saturn). Not to mention how long PC gaming has had online play all this time.

grr :mad: :mad: :mad:

If I hadn't have already bought a Wii, I wouldn't buy one now, not after this.
Set aside their single player games for a moment because no one's questioning whether or not Nintendo is good enough at making a good single player experience. Multiplayer, they blow. Period. 4 player split screen and that's it...that's the best you can give us? Sorry...label me a 'disgruntled Wii owner' (despite all my joy with RWiivil 4), but this crap has to end. Whether I hold onto the Wii for the console's lifespan or not - I can tell you this - it will be the last Nintendo console I purchase. I'm tired of this garbage.

People can rip on Sony all they want for the laundry list of Ps3 problems (namely price and weak launch), but you know what? At least they've got their $#!t in gear when it comes to online. :rolleyes:



Dagless
Jul 3, 2007, 06:46 PM
I disapprove. So long as it has splitscreen multi.

That said. It's Metroid. A stellar exploration game with a focus on storyline. If they were to make a multiplayer version I want them to make it seperate and change the gameplay a little. I'd like a Hunters Wii done properly. (actually, it's funny how Halo 2 focused on multi player and made a crappy single player, and Hunters was the opposite.)

Part of me is hoping Smash Bros Brawl will have online. But it's a party game so... *shrugs*.

And ps. Calm down :D are you after Prime 3 or a regular online FPS? Online play isn't the second coming.
"Multiplayer, they blow". LOL. I know you're angry and stuff, but that just threw aside Mario Karts, Smash Bros', Mario Party's, F-Zero...

zero2dash
Jul 3, 2007, 06:55 PM
Part of me is hoping Smash Bros Brawl will have online. But it's a party game so... *shrugs*.

If it does, you know it'll be crippled by friend codes and no chat which (combining both) ruins the experience once you've played games online with chat and a central friends or server list.

And ps. Calm down :D are you after Prime 3 or a regular online FPS?

It's not either that I'm after. My point is that I'm sick of Nintendo halfassing everything all of the time. It's like they believe that gamers have some unknown stigma about their 1p experience that they think "nah, people won't give two $#!ts whether we a) include online multiplayer or b) include online co-op". I've been a Nintendo supporter since day one; I've bought every console they've sold minus the Virtual Boy which includes two different NES's, three SNES's, about 4 different Game Boy/Game Boy Advances (and their different versions), as well as their last two failed (in the grand scheme of things as it relates to third party support) consoles, the N64 and Gamecube.

I'm sick of Nintendo pulling this crap; enough is enough.
It's 2007.
Not having an online plan in place was excusable 10 years ago.
5 years ago, you'd be jeered at.
Now - it's unacceptable when every other console out there offers it [online].

Dagless
Jul 3, 2007, 07:07 PM
Wow. Well I'm glad I don't put much interest into online gaming :D much prefer having some friends round and playing a few games. I can't be the only person to actually still have friends over to play games?
This is what Mario Kart DS and other online "party" games lack. The human touch. You might as well be playing a bot, or on PC/360 games, a bot that constantly swears too.

The way I see it - if the single player is so incredible, like the vast majority of 1st party Nintendo games are, then why bother with a bolted on multiplayer? It didn't harm OoT, hell it didn't harm Twilight Princess.


(and before folk have a go at me for not liking online play - I'm still addicted to Half Life 2 Deathmatch :D )

sikkinixx
Jul 3, 2007, 07:09 PM
Nintendo is teh d00med.

Dagless
Jul 3, 2007, 07:14 PM
Incidentally, why have you bolded what the Joystiq editor added? Metroid Prime 3 is the end of the Prime series :D it's not some sneaky comment by Retro announcing a new game.

Ja Di ksw
Jul 3, 2007, 07:24 PM
Wow, this is very, very disappointing. I was hoping to play MP3 with my friend who has moved to another city. He even got a Wii "knowing" that he and I would be playing MP3, Smash, BWii, etc, online together. The Wii was suppose to have such great online potential, but I don't see it coming through. I still love the system, it's so much fun, but come on Nintendo! Here's what they need to start, and SOON:

ONLINE games! Seriously, more of them. A lot more.
Give a new, better set up to the Virtual Console. There's just too many games on it now to navigate.
Independent games being developed and sold online (Coming soon, thankfully, but not soon enough)
Demo's through WiiConnect24. Where are my DS game demo's? Honestly, WHERE?
Updates / patches to games through WiiConnect24. New cars or levels for Excite Truck, or make it (gasp) online? New content for old games? What happened to all this stuff?

GFLPraxis
Jul 3, 2007, 08:11 PM
Such BS. :mad:
Why does Nintendo even ever mention online play anymore?
Why did they include WiFi in their last two systems (DS + Wii) when it goes unused 99% of the time?
Why even hype it like it's a feature when you won't even bother using it?
By the time they get off their butts and implement it on more than 2-5 games per console, they will be so far behind in that area that their online experience will be like comparing the Flintstones to the Jetsons.

Give me a break guys.
Quit with the excuses. People want online play in their games and in this day and age when your competition is leaving you in the dust in that area, your excuses are just becoming more and more retarded.

Work on it. Get it done. This isn't rocket science. :mad:

I'm sorry, but this is just fkn ridiculous.
It's not feasible to say "Nintendo, you blew it" this early in the game, but you know what? Forget that. Nintendo did blow it with their online. AGAIN. At this point in time, I have absolutely no faith whatsoever in Nintendo to release a competent online console experience. For the love of god, systems 10 years ago had online play through add-ons like the Xband (SNES, Genesis) and the NetLink (Saturn). Not to mention how long PC gaming has had online play all this time.

grr :mad: :mad: :mad:

If I hadn't have already bought a Wii, I wouldn't buy one now, not after this.
Set aside their single player games for a moment because no one's questioning whether or not Nintendo is good enough at making a good single player experience. Multiplayer, they blow. Period. 4 player split screen and that's it...that's the best you can give us? Sorry...label me a 'disgruntled Wii owner' (despite all my joy with RWiivil 4), but this crap has to end. Whether I hold onto the Wii for the console's lifespan or not - I can tell you this - it will be the last Nintendo console I purchase. I'm tired of this garbage.

People can rip on Sony all they want for the laundry list of Ps3 problems (namely price and weak launch), but you know what? At least they've got their $#!t in gear when it comes to online. :rolleyes:

Dude, calm down. Metroid Prime 3 is genuinely a SINGLE-PLAYER GAME. It's not just that it doesn't have online play; as far as I know, it doesn't have multiplayer AT ALL.

I'd love online play, but if the game doesn't even have mutliplayer?

Nobody complained that Zelda Twilight Princess didn't have an online multiplayer component. Are you going to get this worked up when they inevitably release Super Mario Galaxy without online multiplayer?

GASP! A SINGLE-PLAYER GAME DOESN'T HAVE ONLINE PLAY! THE WORLD IS ENDING!

If Smash Bros or Mario Kart lacks online play, THEN I'll be ticked.

Heck, if Smash Bros Brawl was released without online play I'd be picketing Nintendo HQ.


That whole "This will be the last Nintendo console I purchase!" is just ridiculous.

Dagless
Jul 3, 2007, 08:41 PM
Dude, calm down. Metroid Prime 3 is genuinely a SINGLE-PLAYER GAME.


Somehow folk forget what Metroid is all about. It's all about exploration and vast non-linear worlds rather than run & gun. Look at the multiplayer in Prime 2, even online wouldn't save that. The format doesn't work. It barely worked in Hunters.
Out of 9 (count em) Metroid games only 2 have had multiplayer.

applekid
Jul 3, 2007, 09:58 PM
Yeah, Metroid multiplayer games haven't really worked. They would have had to invest some good time into MP3 and hope it would turn out to be a decent multiplayer FPS component.

Metroid Prime 2: Echoes - Auto-targeting?! Come on. Really lame multiplayer. And the maps were tiny.

Metroid Prime: Hunters - The multiplayer is interesting for a couple matches, but again, tiny maps. And it was too easy to recover health.

I just hope I can finish both Primes and possibly Metroid: Zero Mission before MP3 comes out. Hopefully the controls will define FPS on the Wii. (Although I still say Elebits and CoD3 did decent work.)

SamIchi
Jul 3, 2007, 09:59 PM
Since Metroid is a single non-online game at it's core, I don't care if they add online or multi. If they put it on there it would feel tacked on. I would probably play it once and get back to the single player. MP2 sucked with multi, DS one sucked online. Give me some epic, Super Metroid Action and I'll be happy.

If this was a game like, say... PSO then I would be pissed. Or like Worms or sumthin' but it isn't, it's freakin Metroid! And it's Nintendo! So don't get your panties in a bunch. Nintendo has been known to play it safe, and that's exactly what they are doing. Once online gets a substantial base, be sure that Nintendo will kick it into high gear. If you are gettin so worked up with this announcement, you're looking at buying MP3 for the wrong reasons.

I hope Nintendo looks into making a new franchise focused on the Wii-mote and FPS Multi. I'm sure they can pull out a killer one if they wanted to. They really should.

e˛Studios
Jul 4, 2007, 01:50 AM
Lol.. and you Ninty fans say the Sony fans make up excuses for their actions.. this is great.. say more Jimmi.. "lollipops" as you would say.. :rolleyes:

Ed

GFLPraxis
Jul 4, 2007, 03:56 AM
Lol.. and you Ninty fans say the Sony fans make up excuses for their actions.. this is great.. say more Jimmi.. "lollipops" as you would say.. :rolleyes:

Ed


Okay, so you're going to take the side of "Metroid Prime 3 sucks because it has no online multiplayer as it is a single-player game"?

Seriously, this is the stupidest argument I've ever seen. Let's just argue that Oblivion sucked because it lacked online play. That darn Sony! How DARE they allow the release of a game without online play! I'll never buy a Sony product for as long as I live!

Seriously, every side of the console war has released single-player-only games. Bashing a single-player game for not having online play is silly; claiming that pointing out that the game is single-player only is an excuse is just stupid. Unless you'd like to apply that logic to Sony's library as well.

michaelltd
Jul 4, 2007, 04:18 AM
I agree with Praxis here.

Now if Smash Bros Brawl doesn't have on-line play, then that's another story.

Dagless
Jul 4, 2007, 04:24 AM
Lol.. and you Ninty fans say the Sony fans make up excuses for their actions.. this is great.. say more Jimmi.. "lollipops" as you would say.. :rolleyes:

Ed

As you would say, "way to contribute" or "I'll report that because it doesn't contribute".

LOL, nice one Praxis. "How dare Sony not put multiplayer into Oblivion" :D Excellent point too. Since when did multiplayer centric gaming ever need multiplayer? Oblivion (how DARE Bethesda!), Tomb Raider (how DARE Crystal Dynamics!), Final Fantasy (how DARE Sony!), Metal Gear Solid (how DARE Sony again!... how dare they shut down the servers!) :rolleyes:

GFLPraxis
Jul 4, 2007, 04:25 AM
I agree with Praxis here.

Now if Smash Bros Brawl doesn't have on-line play, then that's another story.

I'd be raiding Nintendo HQ with pitchforks. :mad:

2nyRiggz
Jul 4, 2007, 05:19 AM
Nintendo whats the deal here man....will this machine give me online play or what?

MP: 3 no online play......cool because if its anything like hunters then I'll pass but the option would of been cool.



Bless

Dagless
Jul 4, 2007, 05:33 AM
Which is why Metroid needs a rethink for multiplayer usage. Hunters was on the right path, they just needed to execute it better.

takao
Jul 4, 2007, 08:55 AM
well they never announced that it has any multiplayer what-so-ever

(don't get me wrong it's one of the reasons why i don't buy metroid prime)

actually they said from the beginning they want to concentrate on the single player after the failed multiplayer of metroid prime 2

that said they should have created some coop action i would have liked that


oh and there are gazillion of other single player games out there where nobody cares


personally i'm waiting for battalion wars 2 for multiplayer action ... (which had online anounced)

edit: regards to shooter/fps on the wii i've heard quite a few rumors for E3 .. a friend working at a developer said "it might be called 'fps for wii-expo' already" so i guess we will have plenty from that side

pcypert
Jul 4, 2007, 10:06 AM
To me in this day and age there should at the very least be OLC with map downloads and expansions for shooters...then online coop and finally online vs play. This game should have maps at the very least...but then we'd need actual storage space :(

Paul

Poopface Morty
Jul 4, 2007, 10:07 AM
Am I one of the only people who doesn't care about online play, or considers it a marginal playing experience? I live in an area not blessed by a cable connection, and I tried XBox Live on wireless DSL, and it was a mess. Seriously, invite some friends over or something. And I was to understand that, what has already been mentioned, multiplayer was completely dropped from Prime 3, as Prime 2's multiplayer was terrible.

MacRumorUser
Jul 4, 2007, 10:23 AM
I have my 360 for Live, PS3 for PSN so I'm not too fussed about the Wii.

It's more important at this stage for me to actually see some decent titles being released rather than last gen ports with wiggle.

pcypert
Jul 4, 2007, 11:53 AM
To me the lack of online is just another thing working against the Wii. I don't play online much...but like the option. Also like to know some of my games have more legs to them and aren't done 8 hours later. What if I want to play Mario Party but there's no friends in house? Would be nice to have the option. It IS a selling point for a lot of gamers so it should matter to Nintendo.

Paul

MacRumorUser
Jul 4, 2007, 12:10 PM
It IS a selling point for a lot of gamers so it should matter to Nintendo.

Paul

Well it mattered enough for them to build wifi into the console, just not enough to put it into their games ;) :D

I agree though games which are multiplayer 'centric really do benefit from an online option.

Metroid in this instance though is more of a single player experience, but wasn't it widly assumed in the 'industry' through all the media and press that the main reason for the major delay from launch game to nearly a year later was for them to add online multiplayer.

If this is not the case, it proves that Nintendo really do blatantly lie about release dates as it's obvious that Metroid was NEVER going to be released at launch EVER...

takao
Jul 4, 2007, 12:22 PM
Metroid in this instance though is more of a single player experience, but wasn't it widly assumed in the 'industry' through all the media and press that the main reason for the major delay from launch game to nearly a year later was for them to add online multiplayer.


"widly assumed" like the ps3 taking the lead easily ;)
that said the comparisation pictures of the same level are quite impressive they added quite a lot of detail and made textures better ... it's not like they sat there doing nothing ...


that said it should be noted that metroid supports Connect24 and that they have some stuff on the download side

at least i read that on gamefront.de

let's wait and see if it really is as epic as they say ("nearly as epic as zelda") because then i think all that whining isn't justified... if it ends after like 10 hours then i'm fine with the bitching and moaning (after all i'm _not_ going to buy it .. just like i didn't buy zelda)

steamboat26
Jul 4, 2007, 12:44 PM
Nintendo has this gen in the bag, if they get online multiplayer, they can't lose.
But if they don't, then the 360 is going to lead in sales...

apfhex
Jul 4, 2007, 12:54 PM
Nintendo does need to get their act together with online gaming. No more friend codes! Urg.

The Metroid series is not where they should start. I couldn't give a **** about multiplayer in a Metroid game (Hunters was baad) — it's all about the awesome single player.

SSBB is the game that needs kickass online play.

Dagless
Jul 4, 2007, 01:05 PM
Everyone forgetting about Mario Football? Online works very well there.

bluebomberman
Jul 4, 2007, 01:42 PM
Aren't some of the EA sports games going to allow online play?

That, plus Mario Strikers Charged should make the Wii a pretty decent online machine. Not great, but decent.

Agreed that multiplayer Metroid doesn't matter much, but will be disappointed if Smash Bros doesn't get it.

Ja Di ksw
Jul 4, 2007, 01:49 PM
I disagree with some of the posts here. Metroid is about single player, yes, but that doesn't mean they can't add in a (good) multiplayer. Doing so would take less time than an entire game that was based around being multiplayer b/c you already have characters, weapons, *maybe* some levels, etc. A good single player game doesn't rule out a good multiplayer game.

The reason why people are upset is b/c they want a FPS that's online on the Wii. The Wii was suppose to have *great* FPS, and people usually like FPS to be online. With Metroid being hailed as having amazing FPS controls, it was thought it would be perfect for it to be online, especially with the delay they gave.

Does that mean Metroid will suck now? No, but we can still be disappointed that it doesn't have online capabilities.

Also, Nintendo talked about how great the Wii was going to be with online stuff, and (at least in the US), we have barely seen anything. I think you can trade levels in Elebits or something, and that's as far as the games go. We want online games in America!

And yes, I am still eagerly anticipating BWii and Mario Strikers. They both look great. But considering how long ago the Wii was introduced, it's been far too long for online games, and to lose one that sounded great does hurt.

Bottom line:
Metroid will still be good.
It does suck that Metroid won't offer an online portion (that could have been good!)
The Wii is still fun, but they really need to step up their online games, WiiConnect24, etc.

Dagless
Jul 4, 2007, 02:04 PM
It does suck that Metroid won't offer an online portion (that could have been good!)

It does have an online portion. It's just not an online multiplayer.

Ja Di ksw
Jul 4, 2007, 02:07 PM
:P, you know I meant an online multiplayer :)

seenew
Jul 4, 2007, 11:55 PM
Never! Metroid should never ever have multiplayer. The **** they offered up in MP2 was AWFUL. It's just a bad idea. You don't have multiplayer Zelda, do you (Four Swords aside, and it's still not the same)?

I don't understand this complaint. Complain when Mario Kart Wii doesn't have online multiplayer-- that's a valid complaint.
But leave Metroid alone. It's a beautiful single player experience.


(plus Retro developed it, not Nintendo, anyway)

zero2dash
Jul 5, 2007, 03:44 AM
Think about this then and how this could be the beginning of disaster or wasted potential; take your pick.

-Nintendo is behind the WiFi architecture (apparently).

-3rd parties come to Nintendo to gain access to the architecture.

-Nintendo doesn't implement the WiFi into their own titles, so their education on the matter is nil.

-3rd parties therefore have no basis or ground with which to work on, therefore no 3rd party titles have WiFi either.

Think about it.
Now, I'm not trying to say "the sky is falling", but let's remind ourselves that the SNK rep months ago said (I believe) that Nintendo wasn't exactly handing out "how-to's" on WiFi implementation, and Ed Boon (behind MK) said they wanted to put WiFi into the game but Nintendo couldn't tell them how to do it or how the servers worked.

Set aside the fact that Nintendo doesn't implement the WiFi into a game or two here.

The fact is - going off what we know and what we've been told by 3rd parties - Nintendo is bottlenecking WiFi period on their system.

My point - if the Wii has little to no WiFi support, you can send your hate mail directly to Nintendo. :rolleyes: :(
If Nintendo has no expertise (when they should), how are any 3rd party companies going to use the network either?


Nintendo whats the deal here man....will this machine give me online play or what?

QFT...100% true.
If Nintendo hadn't said squat about WiFi, I wouldn't care at this point.
But don't get me all hot and bothered by mentioning WiFi and throwing out ideas and plans, and then decide to sweep it under the rug and act like it was never there or talked about to begin with.

That's my problem.

Dagless
Jul 5, 2007, 06:07 AM
I'll say again because it sounds like you don't know about online Wii games-

Mario Strikers: Charged Football has online play. It works very well. It gives you a ping rating and asks if you want to "accept or deny" that game. Then shows you who the player is and their ranking. Game loads, game starts. Most of the time (if you're me), you lose.
Game ends. Scores are uploaded. You can view the various league tables in 7 different ways.

I even believe Eledees has online portions too.

This doesn't sound like the actions of a company shunning online play. It sounds like the actions of a company being very slow to take off with online play. No sweeping under any rugs at all. Just a lazy sod who said he'd clean the house and spent too long playing video games.

pcypert
Jul 5, 2007, 09:00 AM
They have some stuff for Big Brain and I've heard they're ramping up support and play in Madden 08 so there's definite signs it's coming...maybe not as quickly and as expansive as I'd like. I'd really like to see a Wii Sports 2 with online really soon though...that would truly be Nintendo supporting online and getting everyone into it...

Paul

e˛Studios
Jul 5, 2007, 09:02 AM
I'll say again because it sounds like you don't know about online Wii games-

I don't think you read his message, or you are just ignoring the point he is trying to make from your blinders not letting you see anything Nintendo does wrong. The issue he has is with Nintendo making a fuss over WiFi and then not giving the goods in order to use it and quite simply just not using it at all. Multiple 3rd party companies have complained about this, i would bet EA's sports games won't have Wifi, why? Its because Nintendo doesn't seem to know how to even implement it in to their games, however they are too happy to just port GCN games to the Wii for a quick and sloppy profit and not make innovative strides in the direction that their hardware was built on.. (and please don't give me any waggle crap excuses, waggle is FAR from innovative.)


I even believe Eledees has online portions too.

If this is elebits in the US it had level sharing.. i would hardly call that online portions.

The biggest mistake Nintendo made was releasing wii sports without wifi online funtionality, yes it plays fine without it, but like most games it would be Better with it.

Ed

applekid
Jul 5, 2007, 09:34 AM
I think this thread has gone way off course.

Although, the sheer lack of Nintendo WiFi games on the Wii currently and complaints by other developers are all not reassuring, this summer is when Nintendo truly kicks off Nintendo WiFi Connection with the first real game being Mario Super Strikers/Football (depending on which part of globe you're on). So, it took about 8 months, but at least it's here. Nintendo is last to the game, but what would you expect from the company that didn't believe online play would take off and took a year to get Mario Kart DS online? EA seemed optimistic about the online play for their sports titles coming this fall. It sounds like it's going to be just like the online play on the PS3 or Xbox 360 minus voice-chatting.

All of this nay-saying would've been more appropriate a couple of months ago. Mario Super Strikers will be the first important game to go online (Pokemon and Elebits don't count). Other games will follow thereafter.

Antares
Jul 5, 2007, 11:53 AM
Metroid Prime 3 does not need multiplayer, much less online multiplayer. Period. Half-Life didn't have multiplayer. And the Prime series isn't even a FPS. They're FPAs. Now, for whatever Metroid game comes after the Prime series ends, then yes...yes the next Metroid game can be designed to include multiplayer elements. The Prime series is designed as a solo adventure. The MP2 tacked on multiplayer battles were pretty mediocre...simply due to the fact that Prime was not designed with multiplaying in mind (proof in point that you can't just easily add multiplayer gaming without spending a lot of time on that to make it good). I'd rather have a great single player game than simply a good single player game (that could have been great but resources were spent to add good multiplayer).

However, I do agree with the comments about the slow online gaming progress that Nintendo is making. I wish Mortal Kombat was online along with other games that "should" have been online. I want online games as I can't easily have friends over to play like in college or high school. But I'm not about to use Metroid Prime 3 as a scapegoat or example of Nintendo's lack of online multiplayer support.....multiplayer is simply not appropriate for MP3.

Ja Di ksw
Jul 5, 2007, 12:06 PM
Can someone please explain the idea to me that Metroid couldn't/shouldn't have multiplayer? I really don't understand what makes it a game where multiplayer would be bad.

e˛Studios
Jul 5, 2007, 12:19 PM
Can someone please explain the idea to me that Metroid couldn't/shouldn't have multiplayer? I really don't understand what makes it a game where multiplayer would be bad.

Having metroid online would enhance the game, the Nintendo crowd here likes to find new excuses to back up the shoddy planning of the company they love.

It's like saying Resistance, GeOW, or Rainbow Six would be bad online. They all have decent single player stories, but the online abilities enhance the game. Online wouldnt hurt Metroid, it would only add to it and make it a better game. Nintendo messed up, but then again they never quite "got" online, nor do they get it with the lame codes and all.

Ed

seenew
Jul 5, 2007, 01:04 PM
Having metroid online would enhance the game, the Nintendo crowd here likes to find new excuses to back up the shoddy planning of the company they love.

It's like saying Resistance, GeOW, or Rainbow Six would be bad online. They all have decent single player stories, but the online abilities enhance the game. Online wouldnt hurt Metroid, it would only add to it and make it a better game. Nintendo messed up, but then again they never quite "got" online, nor do they get it with the lame codes and all.

Ed

RETRO RETRO RETRO

RETRO developed Prime. NOT NINTENDO. It was THEIR call to make. As they said before, if you actually read about it-- they didn't have the resources and felt the game would be better off if they put everything they had into the single player mode.

There's a whole slough of reasons why Prime shouldn't be multiplayer, so I won't get into that, I'll just refer you to MP2's multiplayer mode.

e˛Studios
Jul 5, 2007, 01:06 PM
RETRO RETRO RETRO

RETRO developed Prime. NOT NINTENDO. It was THEIR call to make. As they said before, if you actually read about it-- they didn't have the resources and felt the game would be better off if they put everything they had into the single player mode.

There's a whole slough of reasons why Prime shouldn't be multiplayer, so I won't get into that, I'll just refer you to MP2's multiplayer mode.

More excuses? SWEET! :rolleyes:

Antares
Jul 5, 2007, 01:06 PM
Can someone please explain the idea to me that Metroid couldn't/shouldn't have multiplayer? I really don't understand what makes it a game where multiplayer would be bad.

Having multiplayer wouldn't make it bad. In fact, it's true that including it would enhance the game....though, only if it's good. But as Prime 2 showed, you can't just tack it on. The multiplayer in Prime 2 added nothing to the game and wasn't really fun after a few goes. Retro would have to spend a lot of time making it great and not simply derivative junk. Prime has game mechanics (like auto-lock among other things) that don't lend themselves well to multiplayer fragging. I would be more upset if Retro removed resources from the main game to add multiplayer support. Plus, a bad/poorly implemented multiplayer game could actually bring the overall game down. The problem is, the Prime Series was never developed with multiplayer in mind. MP3 (I believe, don't quote me) is basically using the same engine as the first two games.

That said, the next Metroid game could be developed, from the ground up, with a multiplayer design element in mind. Then, we can have a Metroid game with a great single player game and a good multiplayer game (with online matches). There's plenty of characters there to mine. One problem is that lack of interchangable weapons.

seenew
Jul 5, 2007, 01:09 PM
More excuses? SWEET! :rolleyes:

What excuses? Metroid Prime was an awesome game, no one can deny that. However, many felt that Metroid Prime 2 was a lot less "awesome," despite still being really good. I would argue that having allocated precious time and resources into an unneeded multiplayer mode caused the single-player mode to suffer. If this is the case, then it's great that MP3 is single player only.

You really haven't played MP2's multiplayer, have you?

Ja Di ksw
Jul 5, 2007, 01:36 PM
What's to stop them from getting rid of things like auto-lock in multiplayer, but keeping it in single player? Or from adding interchangeable weapons to multiplayer? Throw in some levels you make for it . . . etc. I'm not saying it wouldn't take more work, and I agree that if they took away time/resources from the single player it could hurt it, but I don't see how adding a multiplayer to a single player game makes the single player game bad if you leave it unchanged. You could just alter the multiplayer to make it better.

Ah well, all I know is I would have liked a good FPS (the Wii was said to be great at them!) that I can play online with friends.

pcypert
Jul 5, 2007, 01:47 PM
If it's 40+ hours then I won't be disappointed.

The original Half Life did have multiplayer online. Or are you talking about a console version? I played quite a bit of Half Life Online back in college. I hated not having a grapple (having just come off of Quake/Quake II guilds)...but it was really fun, but quickly was forgotten due to other games.

I think the confusion and differing opinions come from different expectations. Some want Metroid to be Nintendo's GeOW or something and others just want it to be an epic adventure game. Those that want the epic game don't see it as a FPS...the FPS folks are wandering where their needs will be met...kind of like the RPG players, folks that like Hockey/Soccer games, real racing sims...well almost all the genres at this point :) . But I'm still quite happy with my Wii regardless...

Paul

zero2dash
Jul 5, 2007, 02:22 PM
I'll say again because it sounds like you don't know about online Wii games-

Mario Strikers: Charged Football has online play

...and Pokemon is said to include online play.

Two games thus far where there are a few dozen games that could've had online play implemented, should've had online play, and would've benefitted from online play. Yet...

This doesn't sound like the actions of a company shunning online play. It sounds like the actions of a company being very slow to take off with online play.

Rubbish.

They've already met their quota for online games if the Gamecube is any indication. 2 online games, both PSO titles. I bought a broadband adapter for nothing.

If they release more than a handful of WiFi games this year for the Wii, I'll be surprised. Hell, 6-8 would be a pleasant surprise. In the grand scheme of things: they're still a lackluster third place in this area. :rolleyes:

If they put online play into Smash Brothers, it's not the second coming- it'll be a third title with WiFi play. I'll start saying "attaboy" when we're seeing a couple dozen games which is not out of the realm of expectation. How many 360 games have some sort of online features? I'd easily say 9/10. 90% of all 360 titles have online. Sony's still getting their network operational, but once Home launches, I think they'll be up there in that percentage as well. Where will Nintendo fall by that time? Less than 10%...1/10. Guaranteed.


The issue he has is with Nintendo making a fuss over WiFi and then not giving the goods in order to use it and quite simply just not using it at all. Multiple 3rd party companies have complained about this, i would bet EA's sports games won't have Wifi, why? Its because Nintendo doesn't seem to know how to even implement it in to their games, however they are too happy to just port GCN games to the Wii for a quick and sloppy profit and not make innovative strides in the direction that their hardware was built on.. (and please don't give me any waggle crap excuses, waggle is FAR from innovative.)



If this is elebits in the US it had level sharing.. i would hardly call that online portions.

The biggest mistake Nintendo made was releasing wii sports without wifi online funtionality, yes it plays fine without it, but like most games it would be Better with it.

Ed

Absolutely the points I was trying to make.

People keep supporting Nintendo and their halfassed features; I'm bowing out after this round. No more Nintendo consoles for me until they start delivering on their promises. The Wii has built in WiFi, let's see some stronger support of it. It's like they have a quota to appease their diehard fans...throw a few bones here and there, a few titles with online - that'll keep the fanbase from throwing too huge of a fit. Well I'm stepping back and saying "wait a minute, this ain't right".

Half-Life didn't have multiplayer.

Half-Life had tons of multiplayer on the PC; the console versions didn't. I probably spent a good year combined online playing TFC.

Having metroid online would enhance the game

It's like saying Resistance, GeOW, or Rainbow Six would be bad online. They all have decent single player stories, but the online abilities enhance the game. Online wouldnt hurt Metroid, it would only add to it and make it a better game. Nintendo messed up, but then again they never quite "got" online, nor do they get it with the lame codes and all.

Ed

Agreed again.

RETRO RETRO RETRO

RETRO developed Prime. NOT NINTENDO. It was THEIR call to make.

Retro is damn near in-house Nintendo., they are Nintendo only. That'd be like saying blame Bungie not Microsoft for Halo not having Live play.

Again - if Nintendo doesn't hand out the WiFi schematics when asked, it's their fault. How can they hand those plans out when they don't have much in the way of plans to begin with?

They're already one console generation behind on the online experience, so they've already got catching up to do; and they're doing a piss poor job of catching up with their lack of online games and ridiculous "protect the kids!" semantics with the friend codes and no voice chat.

Antares
Jul 5, 2007, 03:11 PM
The original Half Life did have multiplayer online. Or are you talking about a console version?
Paul

Yeah, sorry I did mean the console version. And it's a poor comparison anyway as multiplayer was developed but excluded.

Anyway, I want a good multiplayer online FPS on the Wii. I just don't think it could easily happen with Prime on the Wii (without a redesign of some core elements of the game). It would be totally cool to battle Dark Samus and Space Pirates, online against friends (or strangers), in a space station, rocky canyon or swampy forrest, etc.. And I think we'll get this with the next Metroid game.

What I'm really hoping for is a port of Crysis on the Wii. I would love to play that with the Wii remote. But I think I'm just dreaming...

seenew
Jul 6, 2007, 02:57 AM
Retro is damn near in-house Nintendo., they are Nintendo only. That'd be like saying blame Bungie not Microsoft for Halo not having Live play.


Are you dense? Of course I would blame Bungie if there was no Live play for Halo 3! Why would I blame Microsoft? They make the consoles, not the games. :confused:

2nyRiggz
Jul 6, 2007, 08:33 AM
Are you dense? Of course I would blame Bungie if there was no Live play for Halo 3! Why would I blame Microsoft? They make the consoles, not the games. :confused:

You do know that bungie must get approval from MS to put things/take things out of the game right....bungie might want to implement but MS might want to charge for that implementation. Buingie made the game but MS has the say because they are the owner of the studio

Who has the last say..the makers of the game or the company that owns the studio who makes the game?

I don't see why they couldn't add multiplayer...it wouldn't degrade the single player game...its only an option...don't play it if you don't like it.


I'm agreeing with zero here...he's spot on.


Bless

Sky Blue
Jul 6, 2007, 09:09 AM
I agree Nintendo need to get their ass in gear for online games, but I don't see why anyone would want online Metroid, it's not that type of game.

GFLPraxis
Jul 6, 2007, 02:10 PM
I agree Nintendo need to get their ass in gear for online games, but I don't see why anyone would want online Metroid, it's not that type of game.

This is my point. Metroid isn't the game to get worked up on.

So far, every game Nintendo promised would be online is online. We're only six months in; the DS took over a year before it got online play.

Give the Wii a year. I think Nintendo will release the online APIs to developers after this Christmas when all their online games go up.

Is this right? No. Nintendo is way behind and being very, very slow. But it's better than nothing; we WILL have the online play in third party games eventually. Look at the DS.

zero2dash
Jul 6, 2007, 04:25 PM
Are you dense? Of course I would blame Bungie if there was no Live play for Halo 3! Why would I blame Microsoft? They make the consoles, not the games. :confused:

Do you read? :p j/k
I said "Halo", not "Halo 3".

Microsoft set up Live.
If Live wasn't there in time for Halo [1], that's Microsoft's fault, not Bungie's. Bungie has no control when the servers are turned on.

Live was there for Halo 2, and obviously will be for Halo 3.

The point is - Nintendo is to blame here for the lack of Wii online titles.
They're the ones holding the strings; they're the ones with the plans and the server/network information for developers to put into their games.

Retro has nothing to do with it.
If they decide not to have multiplayer, that's their fault.
If Retro wants online multiplayer and can't put it in (due to Nintendo's lackadaisical online ideas), that's Nintendo's fault.

See what I mean now? ;)

Maybe I'm a little off base for putting so much stock and frustration into a lack of online and correlating it with MP3, but the fact remains...MP3 could've had online play, it could've used it, it would've been a useful feature, and because Nintendo is handcuffing everyone since they obviously have WiFi on the back burner - that's what I'm ticked off about.

Who cares if it multiplayer wasn't as good as single player; it's still an option to get a little longevity out of the game. Would you Goldeneye fans have played the game as much as you did if it didn't have multiplayer? Hell no. You play through the 1p mode to see where the story goes, and when you're done, the game's done - unless you have multiplayer (local or online). These days, a lack of online IMO is inexcusable, especially in a game that already has multiplayer, or could have multiplayer. It should be second nature at this point in time, and for the 360/Ps3, they're putting online play into their games. I'm sorry...anything that's a shooter (whether first or third person) should have local multiplayer and some sort of online (either multiplayer or co-op), period. And 99% of them do.

Poopface Morty
Jul 6, 2007, 10:45 PM
Food for thought: the first Metroid Prime had zero multiplayer, and has been (for the most part, if you drown out the complaints of those who couldn't adjust to the simple controls) critically acclaimed and considered a success. If I recall, it came out after Halo which, though no Live, still had a robust and popular multiplayer component, and considering it was years after Goldeneye and Pefect Dark, it's not like deathmatch was anything new at the time. Thing is, people didn't care, the single player was compelling enough that nobody missed the deathmatch in that game (most were busy declaring Prime a failure , before it's release, by virtue that it was in first person perspective).

Basically what I've read or have summed up from the posts is that the Wii is, or will be, a failure because Metroid Prime 3 doesn't have online, and I find that hard to believe. Actually, since reading many of the pre-Wii launch complaints, I've learned to drown out most of them unless I really find it damning; anybody remember the sunlight against the sensor bar 'issue' that crept up prior to launch, that has turned out to be anything but? Say what you want about Nintendo fanboys defending their system against any scrutiny, there are people just as bad on the other side of the fence to blow things out of proportion.

Yes, it's hard to defend Nintendo on their lack of online thus far, that's a safe synopsis. But in this particular example, it's not a cause for armageddon. I personally would much prefer a standalone Metroid Wii title that would focus solely on deathmatch type gameplay much akin to the Unreal Tournament games, and have a single player mode in that game that is something like what the Arcade League/Challenges were in Timesplitters 2. Leave MP3 as a single-player title. I would rather they do one component phenomenally then do two things half-assed.



Who cares if it multiplayer wasn't as good as single player; it's still an option to get a little longevity out of the game. Would you Goldeneye fans have played the game as much as you did if it didn't have multiplayer? Hell no. You play through the 1p mode to see where the story goes, and when you're done, the game's done - unless you have multiplayer (local or online). These days, a lack of online IMO is inexcusable, especially in a game that already has multiplayer, or could have multiplayer. It should be second nature at this point in time, and for the 360/Ps3, they're putting online play into their games. I'm sorry...anything that's a shooter (whether first or third person) should have local multiplayer and some sort of online (either multiplayer or co-op), period. And 99% of them do.

Back in the day people played Contra over and over because it was fun; no extra hidden stuff, no deathmatch, no nothing. Sure, times were simpler, but it's still possible these days to have a game that, if it's compelling enough, will warrant replays just because it is fun itself. Many of the games as of late seem to artificially add to replay value by merely forcing you into accomplishing achievements or going on a virtual scavenger hunt to find 300 hidden whatchamajigs, where sometimes most developers miss the fact that if you create a game that has phenomenal gameplay, then that might take care of itself. I've replayed the original Metroid Prime several times just through fun factor alone, as I have God of War. And in your Goldeneye case, I bet you people would keep on playing, as the difficulty levels that increased really added a whole different level of depth to the game itself (00 mode was a pain), and even still that's a special case as the game pretty much revolutionized deathmatch play on consoles, so that's not really a level comparison to the current state. I see deathmatch play as overdone and rather bland anymore, a dime a dozen pretty much (as you said, most of them do, but how many of them are actually 'good' or well designed). If it isn't going to be done good, then don't bother doing it at all.

bobber205
Jul 7, 2007, 12:54 AM
Prime 2's multiplayer seemed somewhat rushed, especially about halfway in. Anybody else notice this?

I think it was because of the craptacular multi. :(

GFLPraxis
Jul 7, 2007, 02:09 AM
Very insightful post, Poopface.
...why do I feel like I just insulted you?

Poopface Morty
Jul 7, 2007, 11:04 AM
Very insightful post, Poopface.
...why do I feel like I just insulted you?

Hey, what can I say? It is my name. :cool: