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needthephone
Jul 4, 2007, 04:54 PM
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article2028678.ece



iJoe
Jul 4, 2007, 04:54 PM
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article2028678.ece

O2 has beaten its rivals to win the exclusive UK rights to offer Apple’s iPhone.

The tie-up, the mobile phone industry’s most sought-after deal in years, is expected to be announced shortly and marks a major coup for the 18 million-customer group.

The phone, which should be on sale in time for Christmas, is expected to prove a key weapon in enabling O2 to win and retain customers in one of Europe’s fiercest mobile markets.

It is understood that negotiations are continuing with mobile phone retailers including Carphone Warehouse over an agreement to sell the iPhone in their stores after a period of exclusivity with O2.

xUKHCx
Jul 4, 2007, 05:01 PM
Brilliant, i am an 02 premium customer after some hefty bills. Will be time i used this to my advantage. Last upgrade i got a free W950 (this was last October) so should be able to get a good free phone and sell it in order to pay for the iPhone.

Leemo
Jul 4, 2007, 05:03 PM
Hmm - I was hoping this would happen, working for o2 I have my lovely £20 staff tariff... (strokes BlackBerry...!).

o2 means no EDGE though - and I hope to god they don't consider it just running on GPRS, that would be awful. Plus o2 need to sort their data tariffs out - I'm sick of offering customers '£10 for 20mb' as a 'good deal' when I know T-Mobile are a few shops down offering unlimited for £7.50!

No doubt though - if this news is true they'll amend the pricing.

-Leemo

FleurDuMal
Jul 4, 2007, 05:03 PM
Oooh...and my contract runs out in October. Which means I'm due for an upgrade...:o

xUKHCx
Jul 4, 2007, 05:04 PM
this doesn't match the evidence found in files on 'page 1'

???????????????????

This so called evidnce is a couple of .pngs which can easily be changed in a software update.

Again:

Well these files can easily be altered with a software update so just because it is on there at the moment doesn't necessarily mean that these will be the providers. And if this were indeed the case it means that apple knew the European carriers before the iPhone was released in the states, not really the case.

Oooh...and my contract runs out in October. Which means I'm due for an upgrade...:o

Snap, although as previously stated doubt we can get the iPhone as an upgrade, although i hope i can wangle it after all over the last year i have spent on average about £80 a month. (This is mainly down to a couple of massive bills)

SheriffParker
Jul 4, 2007, 05:06 PM
Well at least this paints a picture of carriers who are competing for the iPhone, whereas that story a few weeks back said that Apple was the one having trouble finding interested parties. I hope the iPhone will be a worldwide successs. Then the price will go down, and then I can buy one :)

MacRumors
Jul 4, 2007, 05:38 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

TimesOnline.co.uk reports (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/telecoms/article2028678.ece) that O2 has won rights for exclusive UK rights to the iPhone.

O2 has beaten its rivals to win the exclusive UK rights to offer Apple’s iPhone. The tie-up, the mobile phone industry’s most sought-after deal in years, marks a major coup for the 18 million-customer group. The final contract is expected to be signed imminently.
....
The deal will come as a bitter disappointment to Vodafone, which had been tipped as the front-runner for the deal.


Vodafone is reported to have been "pushing hard" to win the iPhone contract but in the end felt that the commercial terms were not viable.

Timesonline.co.uk suggests that Orange is the front-runner in France.

Finally, FTD.de (http://www.ftd.de/technik/it_telekommunikation/:L%E4ndern%20Europas/222091.html) reports that iPhone will start in only these three countries this Fall: UK, France, and Germany. According to the publication, the European version of iPhone will not support 3G, despite some earlier rumors.

notsofatjames
Jul 4, 2007, 05:41 PM
thats great news, o2 is one of the better providers imo!!

jimboboc82
Jul 4, 2007, 05:42 PM
Wrong way to go - T-Mobile all the way with their great customer service and web n walk package. Orange, O2, Vodafone are awful when trying to contact.

Eraserhead
Jul 4, 2007, 05:42 PM
No 3G AND no edge would be a killer, the internet on my laptop via my Nokia 6230i was crazily slow and that supports EDGE and was on Orange.

It would be near un-usable with just 2G.

Mac-Addict
Jul 4, 2007, 05:43 PM
Oh yes! I have been waiting for this! o2 is a great network! I have been with Tescos, Virign, Orange and o2 networks, trust me o2 is defiantly the best out of the lot and Orange was the worst!

I WAS the one
Jul 4, 2007, 05:44 PM
so...that means that we will never see a unlocked iPhone even on Europe??

MacRumorUser
Jul 4, 2007, 05:45 PM
Would be interesting to see who get's the contract in Ireland.

We have 4 networks. O2, Vodfone, Meteor & 3

O2 is the most expensive network here, followed closely by Vodafone

3 has by far the best 3G coverage in Ireland and
Meteor is the cheapest.

hollerz
Jul 4, 2007, 05:46 PM
I'm glad we're getting more UK rumors now :D I can't wait for the official word/dates from Apple though!

bilbo--baggins
Jul 4, 2007, 05:48 PM
I've never used O2, but our local shopping mall has O2, Orange and Vodafone shops. The Orange and Vodafone shops are always busy, the O2 shop is usually empty and on the few occasions I've been in there the displays have been messy, and the staff unhelpful.

From this, I would consider O2 to be one of the worst choices. Besides - they don't have EDGE, and having to use old fashioned GPRS with the iPhone will be a real blow.

fblack
Jul 4, 2007, 05:51 PM
No 3G? Errr...what do they plan to run it on then?

xUKHCx
Jul 4, 2007, 05:52 PM
From this, I would consider O2 to be one of the worst choices. Besides - they don't have EDGE, and having to use old fashioned GPRS with the iPhone will be a real blow.

Maybe this means a 3G iPhone for Europe

Also i hope 02 will get the new contract rates such as those which were unveiled by at&t. I would say that the tariffs should start from £25

Padraig
Jul 4, 2007, 05:53 PM
Would be interesting to see who get's the contract in Ireland.

We have 4 networks. O2, Vodfone, Meteor & 3

O2 is the most expensive network here, followed closely by Vodafone

3 has by far the best 3G coverage in Ireland and
Meteor is the cheapest.

3 just piggyback off vodafone's 3G.

andrewag
Jul 4, 2007, 05:54 PM
Boy I hate this exclusiveness. Why not just offer the phone on all networks? Visual voice mail can't be the only reason.

Dagless
Jul 4, 2007, 05:55 PM
If o2 doesn't provide an unlimited data option they can go and run. Sorry Apple :o

XIII
Jul 4, 2007, 05:56 PM
Realistically if its O2 it has to be on 3G. It can't be on GPRS. For this to work, O2 will have to do some serious changing to their data plans - but if Apple has agreed to use O2, I'm sure they have convinced them they can do so.

jimboboc82
Jul 4, 2007, 05:57 PM
I really can't see an iphone being released here in the UK without 3G, even if it's without the front-facing camera!

(Would still have to buy it though - i've been waiting over a year!)

J Radical
Jul 4, 2007, 05:58 PM
No 3G = Fail.

thequicksilver
Jul 4, 2007, 05:59 PM
I find it difficult to accept that it would be on O2 in the UK but Orange in France. It would make far more sense for the same provider to cover as many countries as possible.

Still, the Times must have a good source to come up with this, so we'll see what happens.

Project
Jul 4, 2007, 06:00 PM
Im already with O2 butt hey have the worst data rates ive ever seen. Currently they offer 4mb for £5 ($9). Insane,

XIII
Jul 4, 2007, 06:01 PM
The Times has been pretty **** with its football rumours this season if thats anything to go by.. :p Although a friend of mine was quoted in the Henry leaving article they did.

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 06:01 PM
I don't think we need to worry about 02 not introducing an unlimited data plan - the FT articles focuses on Apple's demands for a share of ongoing revenue but what they miss is that Apple was just as "unreasonable" in forcing the carriers to offer tariffs that won't kill the market before it even has a chance to take off.

Essentially, Apple is using the fear of a competitor getting the iphone to force the carriers not to slit their own throats with their usual greed and stupidity.

BTW, talking of stupidity, when I was researching data tariffs a week or so ago, the 02 website was so poorly designed that I simply gave up on trying to find out what they charge. Why are most big companies so blind to usability and style? These morons need Apple.

emotion
Jul 4, 2007, 06:03 PM
I find it difficult to accept that it would be on O2 in the UK but Orange in France. It would make far more sense for the same provider to cover as many countries as possible.


I was going to make this exact point. Given that Orange is also the only network with an EDGE network in the UK (conceived as a backup to the 3G netwrok they went with).

Gimme the press release before I believe it.

The data rates charges won't matter on O2 if it's GPRS. No-one will be using it :), it'll be cripplingly slow.

GekkePrutser
Jul 4, 2007, 06:05 PM
Would be interesting to see who get's the contract in Ireland.

We have 4 networks. O2, Vodfone, Meteor & 3

O2 is the most expensive network here, followed closely by Vodafone

3 has by far the best 3G coverage in Ireland and
Meteor is the cheapest.

Well if the iPhone is indeed 2G only as is rumoured then I'd suppose 3 will be out of the question :) They don't do any 2G.

By the way, I'm wondering this too, but I'm a bit worried about this statement: Finally, FTD.de reports that iPhone will start in only these three countries this Fall: UK, France, and Germany. Being from Holland and living in Ireland I have no way of easily getting one then, unless I take up a contract in Germany which will be utterly useless to me :(

sananda
Jul 4, 2007, 06:08 PM
mmm....as everyone has been pointing out o2 don't have EDGE (only orange) so is it to be the existing phone using GPRS or a new phone with 3G? i'm guessing 3G.

emotion
Jul 4, 2007, 06:08 PM
Well if the iPhone is indeed 2G only as is rumoured then I'd suppose 3 will be out of the question :) They don't do any 2G.

By the way, I'm wondering this too, but I'm a bit worried about this statement: Finally, FTD.de reports that iPhone will start in only these three countries this Fall: UK, France, and Germany. Being from Holland and living in Ireland I have no way of easily getting one then, unless I take up a contract in Germany which will be utterly useless to me :(

If the iPhone isn't 3G you'd want to be waiting anyway. Seriously, most people will be.


mmm....as everyone has been pointing out o2 don't have EDGE (only orange) so is it to be the existing phone using GPRS or a new phone with 3G? i'm guessing 3G.

That's the only other explanation other than it's Orange.

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 06:09 PM
By the way, I'm wondering this too, but I'm a bit worried about this statement: Finally, FTD.de reports that iPhone will start in only these three countries this Fall: UK, France, and Germany. Being from Holland and living in Ireland I have no way of easily getting one then, unless I take up a contract in Germany which will be utterly useless to me :(
No, it will almost certainly be launched in the UK and Ireland at the same time by the same operator, 02.

Apple itself treats the two as one territory but with different currencies and slightly different pricing structures. It would make absolutely no sense, in terms of marketing and awareness, to launch in the UK but not Ireland.

Apple actually serves the UK market from Cork.

GekkePrutser
Jul 4, 2007, 06:10 PM
3 just piggyback off vodafone's 3G.

Are you sure about that? Maybe they would in some lesser supported area's, but I'm pretty sure I saw a UMTS (smaller antennas) base station being set up here in town just before three launched, and all the boxes had "Hutchinson Telecom" all over them, which is the company behind 3.

Edit: Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_(telecommunications)#Republic_of_Ireland) that they get some 2G services from Vodafone wherever they don't support 2G but that they have their own 3G network. So that would appear to confirm that, although Wikipedia is not necessarily correct.

It also means that I was wrong saying they don't offer 2G at all but it's not on their own network anyway.

I also hope they will go with O2 here, and launch with the UK as Donnacha is saying.. I wouldn't mind the slow GPRS speed as I'm usually near a wifi access point anyway...

ro2nie
Jul 4, 2007, 06:11 PM
I find it difficult to accept that it would be on O2 in the UK but Orange in France. It would make far more sense for the same provider to cover as many countries as possible.

O2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O2_plc) was acquired by Telefónica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefónica) last January... This means that Spain, Germany, Czech Republic and more could come later. I see Telefonica as a very big player in Europe. They are growing very fast. May be we'll see Telefonica acquiring more networks throughout Europe... who knows...

And for the French... You'll never be able to take Orange away from them... For them, it's orange or nothing...

geese
Jul 4, 2007, 06:17 PM
what an annoying dilemma! I'm on o2, and i'm due an upgrade in November. As cool as the iPhone is, would I really pay more for it then a Nokia n95, with its clunky interface, but its superior spec? I dunno. The lack of 3G is rather annoying. Is their any way iPhone could browse the mobile internet?

Anyways, I've been happy with o2 the 7 years i've been with them.

epicwelshman
Jul 4, 2007, 06:17 PM
Hmm. Well, guess who's gonna become an 02 customer then ;)

emotion
Jul 4, 2007, 06:18 PM
Hmm. Well, guess who's gonna become an 02 customer then ;)

...in Canada?

Frazzle
Jul 4, 2007, 06:20 PM
Does the newspaper actually know anything about EDGE and 3G and all that stuff? O2 has no EDGE. The decision does not sound logical. They don't name sources for their story and they don't have any official confirmation. So even though they state it as fact, I still have my doubts.

Furthermore, the article says that Apple wants to go with the leading provider in each country. Is that O2 in the UK?

xUKHCx
Jul 4, 2007, 06:22 PM
Does the newspaper actually know anything about EDGE and 3G and all that stuff? O2 has no EDGE. The decision does not sound logical. They don't name sources for their story and they don't have any official confirmation. So even though they state it as fact, I still have my doubts.

Furthermore, the article says that Apple wants to go with the leading provider in each country. Is that O2 in the UK?

02 is up there are one of the best. The Times is a very reputable broad sheet (although not my personal choice)

wfuggle
Jul 4, 2007, 06:24 PM
Every phone I have had on O2 has been unlocked which is one of few plus points if they get it.

I left them as data rates were awful and they got my useage wrong each month and needed to manually correct. WHo wants to pay £45 + VAT for unlimited data. Moved to T-mobile with unlimited for £7.50

smqt
Jul 4, 2007, 06:24 PM
Couldn't it be that these .png files are used for other purposes, maybe to display when the phone is using another network, roaming?

wackattack
Jul 4, 2007, 06:31 PM
Very strange news. Only one person from another EU country has to buy a phone to have a EU investigation going. I really wanna see Apple pull the stunt to sell something that won't work all over EU. What about roaming? Will a UK iPhone work in spain or italy? Or will you be able to use your phone another network? Because an iPhone that only works in your own country is just stupid.

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 06:32 PM
02 is up there are one of the best. The Times is a very reputable broad sheet (although not my personal choice)
Well, they are, but all mainstream rags are pretty sloppy when it comes to tech details and this article, though I don't doubt it's overall conclusion, does contradict itself - O2 larger than Vodafone? I doubt it. And, yes, 02's lack of an Edge network seems to run counter to the writer's repeated mention of no 3G.

My guess is that Apple always knew that the European iphone HAD to be 3G because negotiating with only the Edge-providers would have been a no-win scenario for them.

MacRumorUser
Jul 4, 2007, 06:33 PM
3 just piggyback off vodafone's 3G.

I thought that, but strangely in my house my Vodafone mobile cant get a 3G signal and yet my Three mobile can ? Which is just weird.

Also Vodafone on the 3G coverage map don't cover me, whilst Three on their coverage map do.

So maybe Three have extra transmitters outside the area's of vodafone ? Or coverage in Kerry is just screwed.... ;) :)

Well if the iPhone is indeed 2G only as is rumoured then I'd suppose 3 will be out of the question :) They don't do any 2G.

By the way, I'm wondering this too, but I'm a bit worried about this statement: Finally, FTD.de reports that iPhone will start in only these three countries this Fall: UK, France, and Germany. Being from Holland and living in Ireland I have no way of easily getting one then, unless I take up a contract in Germany which will be utterly useless to me :(

Oh crap. Oh well looks like we'll be waiting till sometime 2008 then :(

gnasher729
Jul 4, 2007, 06:34 PM
Wasn't there a long long thread about how Apple was unable to find any partners in Europe because Steve Jobs insisted on one phone company in the whole of Europe? :D

daneoni
Jul 4, 2007, 06:36 PM
If its true then..

YES!!!. I am sooo happy it wasnt Voda or T-Mob. O2 rocks...O2 ftw. Well actually, they already won....if this is true.

O2 has decent plans but data rates are quite ridiculous, hopefully they overhaul their data rates. Another big plus is they rarely brand or lock their phones. Not sure the iPhone will be unlocked though.

Pretty darn solid coverage. Never missed/dropped a call or text. Rarely get less than 3 bars. Great network for me.

gnasher729
Jul 4, 2007, 06:36 PM
Very strange news. Only one person from another EU country has to buy a phone to have a EU investigation going. I really wanna see Apple pull the stunt to sell something that won't work all over EU.

I think you misunderstand something. Apple cannot prevent anyone from selling iPhones anywhere in Europe, and cannot prevent anyone from buying an iPhone, but they have no obligation at all to make it work anywhere but where you bought it.

MacRumorUser
Jul 4, 2007, 06:37 PM
Are you sure about that? Maybe they would in some lesser supported area's, but I'm pretty sure I saw a UMTS (smaller antennas) base station being set up here in town just before three launched, and all the boxes had "Hutchinson Telecom" all over them, which is the company behind 3.

Edit: Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_(telecommunications)#Republic_of_Ireland) that they get some 2G services from Vodafone wherever they don't support 2G but that they have their own 3G network. So that would appear to confirm that, although Wikipedia is not necessarily correct.


Yeah that explains my real world experience too.

Blue Velvet
Jul 4, 2007, 06:37 PM
O2 has no EDGE. The decision does not sound logical.

Only if you assume the UK iPhone is going to use EDGE. Which it isn't.

arn
Jul 4, 2007, 06:38 PM
Only if you assume the UK iPhone is going to use EDGE. Which it isn't.

I think the confusion is that the german article says "no 3g".

arn

jnc
Jul 4, 2007, 06:40 PM
T-Mobile makes more sense, they offer 3G data plans with 1, 3 or 10GB monthly limits. I hope if T-Mobile carry it elsewhere in Europe I can just use one of their phones.

I hate this whole network tied crap, it's so very un European in the first place. Just let us choose!

gnasher729
Jul 4, 2007, 06:44 PM
Boy I hate this exclusiveness. Why not just offer the phone on all networks? Visual voice mail can't be the only reason.

The reason: An exclusive deal for the iPhone is very valuable for that provider, because it will make people switch from other phone companies. A non-exclusive contract is worth a lot, lot less. With a non-exclusive contract all they get is their own customers switching from a different phone to the iPhone; that gives the phone company nothing except a bit more revenue because iPhone customers will buy an unlimited data plan. With an exclusive deal, they steal revenue from the competition.

daneoni
Jul 4, 2007, 06:46 PM
Clarify please is GPRS the same as EDGE. Because O2 has no EDGE so the iPhone relies on GPRS?

3G iPhone in Nov is still a longshot IMO

schalkse
Jul 4, 2007, 06:47 PM
I guess, seen who is reporting it, that it's true. Am not sure, but European version might have GPRS, it's just a chip swap OR for all we know, the current chip already supports GPRS. And as usual, France, UK and Germany are suposedly seen as major markets for Apple and as usual are the first to get the iPhone.

It would be foolish to think that the iPhone comes at the same time all over Europe.

Be sure that some countries will even have to wait longer as those have laws against locking phones. Those will have it...?

yagran
Jul 4, 2007, 06:47 PM
Only if you assume the UK iPhone is going to use EDGE. Which it isn't.

PROOVE it though! :P

Random Ping
Jul 4, 2007, 06:47 PM
No 3G = Fail.

Blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes:

Why aren't people saying the same thing about the BlackBerry CURVE?

fonzy91
Jul 4, 2007, 06:48 PM
... and what about Italy?! It's a really big market of Mobile Phones! but we haven't O2 or Orange or T-Mobile! the only big companies that will be sold the iPhone in Italy are Vodafone (I really hope that will be the partner of Apple!) and "3":confused:
Do you have any rumors about this?

twoodcc
Jul 4, 2007, 06:48 PM
cool.

emotion
Jul 4, 2007, 06:50 PM
Clarify please is GPRS the same as EDGE. Because O2 has no EDGE so the iPhone relies on GPRS?


EDGE is like GPRS+. If no EDGE is available the phone will drop to GPRS speeds. EDGE is already reportedly too slow.

emotion
Jul 4, 2007, 06:51 PM
Blah, blah, blah. :rolleyes:

Why aren't people saying the same thing about the BlackBerry CURVE?

The what now? Who cares about that? This is the iphone we're talking about here....

tosoil
Jul 4, 2007, 06:55 PM
It's a bit off from the topic in this discussion. But, I got a question. I'd been in the US about five years, so my iTunes account is the US one. But, I live in UK now. Will I be able to use UK iPhone with US iTunes account? If not, I cannot play the music in my iTunes library, right?

Ireland
Jul 4, 2007, 06:57 PM
If the European iPhone doesn't support 3G, don't even bother coming Apple.
Hell, it should support HSDPA, let alone 3G.

jonah1977
Jul 4, 2007, 07:00 PM
Gutted! I'm a vodaphone user. With no O2 coverage where i live :(

Cromulent
Jul 4, 2007, 07:00 PM
3 just piggyback off vodafone's 3G.

No they don't. Get your facts straight.

3 have 90% 3G coverage in the UK which is about 15% more than their nearest rivals. They piggyback off O2 and Orange for 2G signal though, but their 3G network is theirs and theirs alone.

daneoni
Jul 4, 2007, 07:02 PM
EDGE is like GPRS+. If no EDGE is available the phone will drop to GPRS speeds. EDGE is already reportedly too slow.

Hmmm. Apple should really implement 3G its just good business and it shouldnt be that hard.

emotion
Jul 4, 2007, 07:03 PM
Hmmm. Apple should really implement 3G its just good business and it shouldnt be that hard.

Mr. Jobs has been quoted as saying that 3G takes up too much energy and space.....

yetanotherdave
Jul 4, 2007, 07:04 PM
Pah, I just looked at o2's website, 1Mb data with each tariff? That just wont go with the iPhone. I looked for a data bundle, but their website id unhelpful.
T-MObile = £7.50 a month unlimited data, plus nice tariff's. The only reason I'm with vodafone now over T-Mobile is that vodafone is the ONLY network to have a signal in my office, and that's because it's underground and there are vodafone repeaters in the building.
I've always seen o2 as the 4th player with 3 behind vodafone, t-mobile and orange, in that order.
We shall see, this means nothing without an official announcement. I guess if they do go o2 1) they will have to have an unlimited data bundle, and 2) I will probably switch cos I'm an idiot for :apple: :)

Cromulent
Jul 4, 2007, 07:06 PM
It's a shame it is not 3G though as 3 offer the best data rate bundle of any network.

jonah1977
Jul 4, 2007, 07:08 PM
just a matter of interest, whats O2's 3G coverage like? I know that vodaphone and orange share there 3G networks.

daneoni
Jul 4, 2007, 07:09 PM
Mr. Jobs has been quoted as saying that 3G takes up too much energy and space.....

If these people did (http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_w880-review-127.php) it, then surely Apple should be able to. I can understand the power arguement but physical size and space?.....im not really buying that one

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 07:13 PM
Mr. Jobs has been quoted as saying that 3G takes up too much energy and space.....
I think we can expect him to do a Tony Blair and slowly drop those claims, focusing more on the other reasons he gave last week i.e. 3G coverage varies too much from city to city in the US.

Data
Jul 4, 2007, 07:16 PM
I was afraid of this, being in holland does not help if it comes down to iPhone, it will probly be mid 2008 till we get it here.

Oh well, more time to save some money and made by that time it will be 3G and ref B, just to stay postive about the news, lol.

ddarko
Jul 4, 2007, 07:17 PM
Mr. Jobs has been quoted as saying that 3G takes up too much energy and space.....

He was speaking about 3G in America, my understanding is that 3G in Europe not only uses a different frequency but its technical specs make it more power efficient. Plus, 3G is far more prevalent in Europe so chipsets supporting the European-flavor of 3G are more prevalent and further along than chips that support the U.S. 3G. In other words, I wouldn't necessary assume the reasons Jobs cited for excluding 3G from the American iPhone carries over to the European version. You Europeans may very well get your 3G after all.

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 07:17 PM
It's a bit off from the topic in this discussion. But, I got a question. I'd been in the US about five years, so my iTunes account is the US one. But, I live in UK now. Will I be able to use UK iPhone with US iTunes account? If not, I cannot play the music in my iTunes library, right?
I'm pretty sure that ipod functionality is completely separate - plenty of people buy their ipods in the different countries, your iTunes location is based, I think, on a mix of your initial IP address and billing address when you first sign up.

cal6n
Jul 4, 2007, 07:20 PM
Gutted! I'm a vodaphone user. With no O2 coverage where i live :(

Same here. I can only get Voda... bollocks :mad:

mh5805
Jul 4, 2007, 07:22 PM
If reports about the sloth-like performance of EDGE in the States are to be believed, then if the iPhone is released in the UK with only GPRS support there is no way they can advertise it as a "Revolutionary Internet Communicating Device", especially given the lack of free Wi-fi hotspots over here.
I just can't see it not having 3G support. The arguments about space and power just don't sit well with me, given that other manufacturers have overcome these to create very slim and sexy 3G handsets.

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 07:24 PM
I was afraid of this, being in holland does not help if it comes down to iPhone, it will probly be mid 2008 till we get it here.

Oh well, more time to save some money and made by that time it will be 3G and ref B, just to stay postive about the news, lol.

I think the article got quite a few of the finer details wrong, including this crap about it being limited to 3 countries. Nonsense. There is no way there are going to miss out on on some of the world's richest territories (the Benelux countries, NL, Ireland etc) and, if they don't stake their claim in time for this Christmas, Apple will blow their head-start in those markets.

Trust me, there will be a lot of arm-twisting and bargaining between now and September but, by November, iphones will appear on the store shelves of all the developed European countries but not Eastern Europe and Italy.

Iggy
Jul 4, 2007, 07:25 PM
Shame. What happened to Orange? They already have EDGE don't they?

Vidd
Jul 4, 2007, 07:27 PM
O2? Yuck.
Their web bundles suck, they have a bad image (imo) and I couldn't wait to get off them.
Orange has great coverage here and sweet contracts for SMS. O2 seems to dislike messaging. :(

Also why do some people call it 02? Surely it's a reference to oxygen?

turlehe
Jul 4, 2007, 07:30 PM
great news if true. on O2 myself!everyone i know that has a cell, they're all on O2, except for one guy whos on vodafone.

PAYG all the way for me, i only need to top up like £10 a month anyway, that includes 300 free texts.

yay

headspace
Jul 4, 2007, 07:32 PM
Yeah, if Jobs' recent comments are anything to go by, a 3G iPhone in Europe will be fat and have crap battery life. But give us the current iPhone on a non-EDGE network and we will have unusable internet on GPRS. Which, for an internet communications device is kind of defeating it's purpose.

Something doesn't really add up. I just can't see how they could release an iPhone here without 3G. But if they do, then why wasn't it done in the US in the first place?

However, I don't think we should be too concerned with the network's current data rates. As they proved with AT&T in the States, we are bound to see special iPhone data plans announced that aren't too ridiculous.

I'm just getting fed up with waiting for an announcement. I hate myself for getting so eager for the release of a bloody phone, but every mobile I've ever had has been a massive crock of s hite and I know I'm going to love this thing. Plus, I'm afraid the iBug got me years ago. I've always been a PAYG customer - never had a contract phone in my life but I know I will signup with whoever on the spot just so I can have one. Damn you :apple:

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 07:35 PM
PAYG all the way for me, i only need to top up like £10 a month anyway, that includes 300 free texts.
I'm on Virgin (T-Mobile network), £10 per month 300 roll-over minutes (including international calls!) and 300 texts.

It's a monthly contract but I'm not locked in, can quit and see out the month, no penalties. I chose that deal because I knew the iphone was coming and I might need to drop Virgin quickly :D

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 07:38 PM
Yeah, if Jobs' recent comments are anything to go by, a 3G iPhone in Europe will be fat and have crap battery life. But give us the current iPhone on a non-EDGE network and we will have unusable internet on GPRS. Which, for an internet communications device is kind of defeating it's purpose.
My prediction: 3G, same size, same battery, 20% less battery life.

Also, 16GB flash will be available to Apple at the right price but they won't launch the Euro iphone as both 3G and 16GB for fear of enraging their American customers.

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 07:42 PM
... Plus, I'm afraid the iBug got me years ago. I've always been a PAYG customer - never had a contract phone in my life but I know I will signup with whoever on the spot just so I can have one. Damn you :apple:
I'm absolutely up for one too but I'm afraid that it does have to be 3G, no point otherwise.

I'm also hoping that, with 3G, they'll also get rid of the pass-through restriction and allow us to use our iphones as Bluetooth modems for our laptops. I'd certainly be willing to pay a higher tariff for that functionality.

Schtumple
Jul 4, 2007, 07:49 PM
Lush I'm with O2, definately get one now, my ipod nano (1st gen) is a bit to battered to use now... plus i hate using "mobile internet", i prefer to be sat down, preferably in wifi enabled cafes, less chance of walking into someone, so all the edge crap doesnt bother me

£300 for the cheapest model (possibly)?
oh we do love to get ripped off here :D

headspace
Jul 4, 2007, 08:05 PM
I thought the whole point of this thing was to give us access the 'proper' internet wherever you are. Having to find a hotspot before you can properly use the net features is ridiculous. I may as well just take my laptop with me everywhere I go :rolleyes: Plus, the majority of hotspots I've ever come across require you to pay extortionate amounts to use them.

Frazzle
Jul 4, 2007, 08:09 PM
It is my understanding that the actual power use of a mobile phone also depends on the quality of the coverage (density of base stations). In the Netherlands my 3G signal is usually 100%, so the radio in the phone doesn't need to use its full tx power.

The US situation may mean that 3G would use far more power due to the state of the network.

Maybe Nokia can show Apple how to implement 3G in a tiny phone and integrate a GPS as well?

To answer Daneoni's question: EDGE means Enhanced Data Rates for GSM Evolution and works by implementing a new modulation scheme in current GSM networks. It's roughly GPRS on steroids. To implement it, you only need some component and software upgrades at the base stations - making it attractive to providers. Maximum theoretical speed is 384 kbits/sec, in practice 150-200 kbits/sec. The actual speed varies with quality of the connection.

Compare that to 3G HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access) connections: 1800 kilobits/sec typical, 3600 kilobits/sec (or even 7200 kilobits/sec!) maximum. Comparable to cheap DSL lines. Basically, HSDPA is to WCDMA (UMTS) what EDGE is to GSM/GPRS. The whole T-Mobile network has HSDPA, the whole Vodafone network has HSDPA. Actually, there are now (as of July 2, 2007) over 70 commercial HSDPA networks in 29 European countries. More info about coverage here (http://www.gsacom.com/cgi/redir.pl5?url=http://www.gsacom.com/downloads/pdf/GSM_3G_Market_Update.php4) (free registration required).

That's why Europeans would rather see a 3G iPhone!

Digitaljim
Jul 4, 2007, 08:11 PM
He was speaking about 3G in America, my understanding is that 3G in Europe not only uses a different frequency but its technical specs make it more power efficient. Plus, 3G is far more prevalent in Europe so chipsets supporting the European-flavor of 3G are more prevalent and further along than chips that support the U.S. 3G. In other words, I wouldn't necessary assume the reasons Jobs cited for excluding 3G from the American iPhone carries over to the European version. You Europeans may very well get your 3G after all.

This is really informative and made me very happy indeed.

Out of curiosity, did any of the UK networks ever make any profit on the ~£20bn they spent on 3G licenses? I thought 3G had been somewhat of a flop here.

Detlev_73
Jul 4, 2007, 08:15 PM
Pardon my American ignorance, folks, but what are the major features that distinguish 2G vs 3G? I've played with iPhone thrice already, and find that it's beyond awesome. Anyone care to list a few major features that aren't available in 2G over 3G? Thanks! :confused:

pipas forjaz
Jul 4, 2007, 08:27 PM
Hi every one
I really can't understand apple. I love their computers and software and I really thought that they want their products to be used be everyone. So why not unlock the iphone so everyone can buy it and use it, no matter what carrier they have. I particularly don't mind not having "visual voice mail" and what ever "3G, 2.5G, EDGE, GPRS" each one is using.... they could just release different iphones, ones that support EDGE, others 3G, others 2.5G what ever and the customer would just choose which one would work with their network and we would all be happy, all over the world, and not this exclusivity deal of having to change networks just to use a phone. The price of the iphone I think is very reasonable considering what it does.I think like this apple would sell more than the 10 million they expect. much,much more.
Just my 2c :)

Frazzle
Jul 4, 2007, 08:31 PM
Detlev_73, see my posting above.

rob@robburns.co
Jul 4, 2007, 08:34 PM
Clarify please is GPRS the same as EDGE. Because O2 has no EDGE so the iPhone relies on GPRS?

3G iPhone in Nov is still a longshot IMO

Edge is enhanced GPRS. I don't have the speeds handy, but IIRC Edge is maybe twice as fast as GPRS. 3G can be 4X or 8X Edge. (again off the top of my head).

Update: Again, though it might be useful to pin down the numbers, al of this is effectively profoundly by one's distance to the cell tower: this may be the biggest factor. However, everything else equal or if you're very close to a cell tower, you'll get better speed on 3G than Edge than GPRS.

daneoni
Jul 4, 2007, 08:35 PM
Pardon my American ignorance, folks, but what are the major features that distinguish 2G vs 3G? I've played with iPhone thrice already, and find that it's beyond awesome. Anyone care to list a few major features that aren't available in 2G over 3G? Thanks! :confused:

Its like 56K Dialup vs T1/T2 Broadband. Oversimplifying though....

Donnacha
Jul 4, 2007, 08:38 PM
Hi every one
I really can't understand apple. I love their computers and software and I really thought that they want their products to be used be everyone. So why not unlock the iphone so everyone can buy it and use it, no matter what carrier they have. I particularly don't mind not having "visual voice mail" and what ever "3G, 2.5G, EDGE, GPRS" each one is using.... they could just release different iphones, ones that support EDGE, others 3G, others 2.5G what ever and the customer would just choose which one would work with their network and we would all be happy, all over the world, and not this exclusivity deal of having to change networks just to use a phone. The price of the iphone I think is very reasonable considering what it does.I think like this apple would sell more than the 10 million they expect. much,much more.
Just my 2c :)

Jesus, do people really not understand that Apple are using the the iphone as leverage to force the telecoms business to stop raping their customers. Apple realizes that it must do this because, left to their own greed and stupidity, the telcos will spend the next decade stunting innovation and new market growth.

Have you ever met a telco executive - absolute, dribbling morons. Unless that entire industry gets it's act together, there is no point in Apple trying to do anything. Steve Jobs realizes that he has ONE chance, one opportunity to use the clout the ipod's success has given him to break down the walls and play the telcos off against one another. These bastards don't want to give away so much power but they are terrified that, if they don't, their competitors will.

The end result, if the gamble pays off, will be a true mass market for mobile broadband and telcos that are far more customer-oriented.

rob@robburns.co
Jul 4, 2007, 08:42 PM
If these people did (http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_w880-review-127.php) it, then surely Apple should be able to. I can understand the power arguement but physical size and space?.....im not really buying that one

size, heat and power consumption (and expense) are all connected. Europe has better 3G coverage which could justify the all of the costs of current generation 3G chipsets for Europe when the justification doesn't quite work for the US. However, it may be that Apple wants to build one hardware product for Worldwide distribution. We'll see. It may be that carriers are anxious to sell the iPHone and get in with Apple now so that when the 3G comes out they'll be ready. As we saw in the US, some will gladly buy an iPhone for its other cpaibilities (including WiFi access) even if its not 3G.

rob@robburns.co
Jul 4, 2007, 08:43 PM
He was speaking about 3G in America, my understanding is that 3G in Europe not only uses a different frequency but its technical specs make it more power efficient. Plus, 3G is far more prevalent in Europe so chipsets supporting the European-flavor of 3G are more prevalent and further along than chips that support the U.S. 3G. In other words, I wouldn't necessary assume the reasons Jobs cited for excluding 3G from the American iPhone carries over to the European version. You Europeans may very well get your 3G after all.

The European 3G is basically the same as the AT&T US 3G. The US has other 3G networks from SprintPCS and Verizon, but in terms of Jobs comments on 3G chipsets it refers to the same 3G as that found in Europe.

pipas forjaz
Jul 4, 2007, 08:56 PM
Sorry Donnacha, but I don't understand. What has this got to do with the rest of us. Some of us don't live in America or Europe, and we would also like to buy and use an iphone. That's all. What have we got to do with with what you are talking about???
All we want is to have an iphone and use it, where ever we are and with what ever telcom we currently have...

iW00t
Jul 4, 2007, 09:57 PM
If these people did (http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_ericsson_w880-review-127.php) it, then surely Apple should be able to. I can understand the power arguement but physical size and space?.....im not really buying that one

You cannot argue with 2 facts:
most people do not use 3G
apple caters to most people

Stella
Jul 4, 2007, 10:05 PM
No 3G?

Is that a lead balloon I see falling from the sky?

Stella
Jul 4, 2007, 10:07 PM
You cannot argue with 2 facts:
most people do not use 3G
apple caters to most people



The European reviewers won't be so forgiving as the u.s reviewers... they will expect more from a phone costing so much.

Mr. Jobs has been quoted as saying that 3G takes up too much energy and space.....

Can you really believe Apple? This is the company that says 3rd party applications will crash the entire cell network?!!!

Ireland
Jul 4, 2007, 10:16 PM
Hi every one
I really can't understand apple. I love their computers and software and I really thought that they want their products to be used be everyone. So why not unlock the iphone so everyone can buy it and use it, no matter what carrier they have.As far as I know by law in Europe a phone has be freely unlock-able. This doesn't apply in the states.

rocklobzter31
Jul 4, 2007, 10:26 PM
The iphone is great...

HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY!!!

Plutonius
Jul 4, 2007, 10:34 PM
so...that means that we will never see a unlocked iPhone even on Europe??

Yep.

Plutonius
Jul 4, 2007, 10:47 PM
Hmmm. Apple should really implement 3G its just good business and it shouldnt be that hard.

Apple will get 3G but it takes time (design, packaging, testing, factory tooling, approvals, etc). I expect we will see a 3G phone (2.0 iPhone) sometime next year when Apple wants to expand into the Asian and remaining European markets. Until then, you will have to use the iPhone on a GPRS or EDGE network.

Konradx
Jul 4, 2007, 10:53 PM
Sad when they talk about it being released in Europe already, and no word on Canada..we are only a line drawn on a map north of you americans

puckhead193
Jul 4, 2007, 11:15 PM
No 3G AND no edge would be a killer, the internet on my laptop via my Nokia 6230i was crazily slow and that supports EDGE and was on Orange.

It would be near un-usable with just 2G.
i went to an apple store today and played with an iphone. I turned off wifi and my god edge is slow... it was torture

TheSilencer
Jul 4, 2007, 11:25 PM
As far as I know by law in Europe a phone has be freely unlock-able. This doesn't apply in the states.

Exactly! After a two years contract you´ll get your phone unlocked usually. You even get the possibility to unlock it before the contract ends, you just have to pay the subsidy rate.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 4, 2007, 11:46 PM
Too bad cuz I love vodafone and their awesome service. Sometimes I wonder if apple is really paying attention to their euro customers on this one because vodafone has a far more superior network in the un that o2 does. But drew to hoping that the fix that problem. Eh what do I care I have my iPhone

Rocketman
Jul 4, 2007, 11:54 PM
NOTICE (of the obvious)

iPhone is a quad-band GSM device with EDGE and wifi and bluetooth.

It has been said over and over. It is the case.

Any deployment within the next 12-18 months will use what it has.

It is diverse. Wide deployment of wifi will help.

Soon we will have wimax 802.16 which has the same range as current cellular towers (what a coincidence).

Cellular is dying.

802 is growing. Deal with it.

Rocketman

"This a$$ho1e told you so". :)

surferfromuk
Jul 5, 2007, 12:18 AM
I don't think you can take anything as final until it leaves the mouth of Steve Jobs....

Whatever the setup you can be sure it will be equivalent in performance and price to the US model. That 'magic formula' will not be diluted for Europe...

...of course there will now be 6 months of rabid disinformation, speculation and general FUD from the PR machines of the competition and the 'paid' journalists...BUT...

Just 'Don't Panic'!!!

Mr Fusion
Jul 5, 2007, 12:21 AM
This "no 3G" stuff is nonsense unless they have something better than it planned for Europe. Apple wouldn't deliver a product that would be so blatantly DOA. :rolleyes:

JloR
Jul 5, 2007, 12:30 AM
God I'm hoping the "Only in the UK, Germany and France" part is non-final.

If it is, a lot of brits will make a lot of money exporting iPhones. I know I will be buying..
I'm living in a country where it's illegal to bind the phone to a customer, however you can bind the contract to the customer for 6 months. This will most likely mean I wont see the shadow of an iPhone until well after asia gets theirs. Lucky lucky me. :rolleyes:

I'm waiting for an official statement before I go crying to work, but it doesn't look good - with EDGE only (rubish here) and 3 countries only.

ruutiveijari
Jul 5, 2007, 12:45 AM
No 3G would mean no phone for Finland. It's only legal to sell 3G phones locked here. Also MMS and video calling are very big here.

Ugg
Jul 5, 2007, 01:14 AM
No 3G would mean no phone for Finland. It's only legal to sell 3G phones locked here. Also MMS and video calling are very big here.

I can't imagine how Apple is going to break into the Finnish and South Korean mobile market. No 3G means it simply won't sell.

I'm sure Steve's got something up his sleeve but it might mean waiting awhile. It would be a major coup for him though to have a successful iPhone launch in Finland, the home of Nokia.

princigalli
Jul 5, 2007, 01:18 AM
I can't tsake this anymore. I liked their phone, but Apple does everything possible to make life difficult for phone buyers. As if hefty price and limited features were not enough, they lock their phones and oblige you to pick the operator they prefer. This is absurd.

Some European countries have the "3" operator. They sell phones with skype and have very low calling prices. And if you are on their network, no matter which country you are in, you still pay domestic prices. Even if your contract is in Italy and you are in Hong Kong.

Will those people be ready to switch to inferior service and more expensive operators just to embrace Steve Jobs vision o operator branded phones and revenue sharing with hardware manifacturers? When I got my MacBook Pro, Apple should have obliged me to get internet service with a company of their choice and expect a share of my phone bill. That would make their company policy consistent through their rntire range of products.

And as far as 3G goes, I've seen smaller phones that have no problems incorporating the chip. I don't see why Apple would be having more trouble with this than others do, other than the fact that EDGE chips are cheaper than 3G. The phone is expensive, their selling practices do everything to discourage you from buying a phone, and their choice of components is cheap.

I think I will get the new Samsung, which looks better than the IPhone in my opinion.

zwiggles1
Jul 5, 2007, 01:26 AM
Yay for Europe, but what's up with the iPhone launch in Canada???
I know that 35Million people can't compete with the population of the UK or Germany, but I live 30mins for the state want to get some iPhone love too!!

Raidersmojo
Jul 5, 2007, 01:29 AM
I think I will get the new Samsung, which looks better than the IPhone in my opinion.


you won't be missed, your one "iphone" you don't purchase won't bankrupt apple

is 3G that important? what are you people doing where you need internet NOW like super fast? edge has worked fine for me around here and I'm not to displeased. yeah I have to wait a extra second but who cares? what are you doing with your time thats so dang important you can't wait a extra 20 seconds for a page to load? is 20 seconds that long? sorry apple can't cater to your "ultra fast life style"

so go ahead and buy your samsung, get that 3G you need so badly. then when people are going ga-ga over someones iphone across from you and no one is paying attention to your third world piece of crap, you can take refuge in knowing you can get a webpage to load 20 seconds faster than the dude next to you :rolleyes:

Project
Jul 5, 2007, 01:30 AM
I can't tsake this anymore. I liked their phone, but Apple does everything possible to make life difficult for phone buyers. As if hefty price and limited features were not enough, they lock their phones and oblige you to pick the operator they prefer. This is absurd.

Some European countries have the "3" operator. They sell phones with skype and have very low calling prices. And if you are on their network, no matter which country you are in, you still pay domestic prices. Even if your contract is in Italy and you are in Hong Kong.

Will those people be ready to switch to inferior service and more expensive operators just to embrace Steve Jobs vision o operator branded phones and revenue sharing with hardware manifacturers? When I got my MacBook Pro, Apple should have obliged me to get internet service with a company of their choice and expect a share of my phone bill. That would make their company policy consistent through their rntire range of products.

And as far as 3G goes, I've seen smaller phones that have no problems incorporating the chip. I don't see why Apple would be having more trouble with this than others do, other than the fact that EDGE chips are cheaper than 3G. The phone is expensive, their selling practices do everything to discourage you from buying a phone, and their choice of components is cheap.

I think I will get the new Samsung, which looks better than the IPhone in my opinion.

Go ahead, buy the Samsung. Funny how Apple haven't said anything at all about the European release yet and you are letting rumours cloud your judgement.

cwedl
Jul 5, 2007, 01:34 AM
Fantastic, O2 is the best Mobile phone carrier in the UK by far, I'm looking forward going back to them after my Three contract runs out.

martijn.s
Jul 5, 2007, 01:36 AM
so...that means that we will never see a unlocked iPhone even on Europe??


locked phones are outlawed in some EU countries, like Belgium, what will Apple do about that ?

they just HAVE to provide unlocked phones here, or not sell the iPhone at all (that would be a disaster for me)

Goldenbear
Jul 5, 2007, 01:42 AM
I can't tsake this anymore. I liked their phone, but Apple does everything possible to make life difficult for phone buyers. As if hefty price and limited features were not enough, they lock their phones and oblige you to pick the operator they prefer. This is absurd...

Well, you may want to keep in mind that there's been no OFFICIAL announcement of any kind. So, everything is pure speculation right now.

As for locking the phones, I would assume this is the enticement for the service providers. Don't you think that if Apple had a choice, it would prefer to have as many people as possible buy the iPhone? I mean, why in the world would any company agree to Apple's various demands, including spending money to implement visual voicemail, if they weren't going to get something in return?

jubjub
Jul 5, 2007, 01:46 AM
locked phones are outlawed in some EU countries, like Belgium, what will Apple do about that ?

they just HAVE to provide unlocked phones here, or not sell the iPhone at all (that would be a disaster for me)

Not sell it in Belgium probably.. considering how much money they stand to make from their deals with the operators I'd say they wouldn't mind not selling it in some smaller countries.

bilbo--baggins
Jul 5, 2007, 01:59 AM
Maybe O2 are going to try to upgrade it's network to EDGE? A bit pointless if you ask me, but if Apple really cannot yet produce a decent 3G version of the iPhone it might have to do. Using with iPhone with GPRS would be a joke (a sick one).

Perhaps they plan to include access to a network of wifi hotspots included in the data bundle - but that would only benefit some people in big cities. Does O2 have wifi hotspots?

CrackedButter
Jul 5, 2007, 02:15 AM
Only a rumour remember...

Cromulent
Jul 5, 2007, 02:17 AM
Maybe O2 are going to try to upgrade it's network to EDGE? A bit pointless if you ask me, but if Apple really cannot yet produce a decent 3G version of the iPhone it might have to do. Using with iPhone with GPRS would be a joke (a sick one).

Perhaps they plan to include access to a network of wifi hotspots included in the data bundle - but that would only benefit some people in big cities. Does O2 have wifi hotspots?

No, but I guess they could do a deal to let iPhone customers use the BT wifi network. That would be good.

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 02:21 AM
No, but I guess they could do a deal to let iPhone customers use the BT wifi network. That would be good.

Only people in the US think that wifi is useful in this context. If I'm in the back of a car, on most trains, out of the middle of a city ec etc you need 3G/HSDPA for true internet connectivity. Wifi is no-where near ubiquitous enough for a mobile device in the UK, at least.

Anyway, I expected to get up this morning and see this all over the news and it isn't. I didn't believe it last night and I don't now. I'd believe Orange in the UK as it has an underutilized EDGE network.

As much as I'd like 3G (well HSDPA and even HSUPA too if all the apps on the iphone are ajax/web based) I dont think Apple will do it. We'll the EDGE device too.

The iPhone sales will be disappointing and the media will pan the device accordingly. I won't be picking an iPhone up if so.

oelph@blueyonde
Jul 5, 2007, 02:25 AM
Sign the online petition for 3G/EDGE on the iPhone in the UK...

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/iPhoneUK/index.html

Philsy
Jul 5, 2007, 02:26 AM
Only people in the US think that wifi is useful. If I'm in the back of a car, on most trains, out of the middle of a city ec etc you need HSDPA for true internet connectivity. Wifi is no-where near ubiquitous enough for a mobile device in the UK, at least.

Same applies for any country - wifi is only in built-up areas.

If the iPhone doesn't have 3G, MMS, a video camera and is subsidised on contract, it will fail miserably in the UK.

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 02:28 AM
Same applies for any country - wifi is only in built-up areas.

I know that but free metropolitan wifi is a lot more common in the US, I'm led to believe.


If the iPhone doesn't have 3G, MMS, a video camera and is subsidised on contract, it will fail miserably in the UK.

I think it'll get by with just 3G out of that list.

rob@robburns.co
Jul 5, 2007, 02:39 AM
Only people in the US think that wifi is useful in this context. If I'm in the back of a car, on most trains, out of the middle of a city ec etc you need 3G/HSDPA for true internet connectivity. Wifi is no-where near ubiquitous enough for a mobile device in the UK, at least.


I think WiFi is probably more ubiquitous than you realize. It just doesn't typically work when you're moving (or its not setup for that anyway). Though I guess I should say that some planes and some trains have it.

I wonder whether these 3G providers do have Edge data capabilities, they just don't make it widely known since they have 3G they want to sell. Another possibility is that Apple will have a 3G phone available (in Europe only or Europe and US) by November, but they don't want that fact widely known because it might hurt sales of iPhones in the US before then.

I do think it would make no sense to sell iPhones in Europe if they could only use GPRS, but either of those two explanation would suffice.

A few other things bear repeating here. Apple has said that AT&T is NOT paying them any portion of subscribers monthly fees. The assumption was that they were because why else would Apple grant exclusive sales for one provider in each market. However, Apple has said nothing about AT&T paying Apple for each iPhone sold. The presumption has been that AT&T isn't subsidizing the phones. However, its clearly possible that they are and we just don't know about it.

Others have reported that Apple is getting 50% margins on these phones (presumably without any subsidy from AT&T). However, those reports are highly questionable. At the very least it would mean that other phones in the same price range have much higher revenue margins. I doubt that. The components in this phone are likely custom made, and are very high quality (as anyone who has seen it in person can attest). It would not surprise me to learn that Apple makes only its usual 30% or so margin on these phones even after a $100 or more payment from AT&T. The components are that high quality.

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 02:44 AM
I think WiFi is probably more ubiquitous than you realize. It just doesn't typically work when you're moving (or its not setup for that anyway). Though I guess I should say that some planes and some trains have it.


Most wifi networks charge and at least require signing on. I'm in Manchester, wifi is everywhere but it isn't always easy to join, even if the access is essentially 'free'.

Seriously Europe and Asia decided long ago that wifi wasn't the way we'd go for mobile device such as the iphone.

Philsy
Jul 5, 2007, 02:49 AM
I think it'll get by with just 3G out of that list.

I'm not so sure. MMS is very popular. In addition, a decent resolution camera would be good - 2Mp is pretty poor by 2007 phone standards.

Philsy
Jul 5, 2007, 02:51 AM
Sign the online petition for 3G/EDGE on the iPhone in the UK...

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/iPhoneUK/index.html

Looks like a good way of harvesting email addresses.... :eek:

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 02:57 AM
As a current O2 customer, i am obviously extremely pleased at this news, if true.

However; even if it is announced today, i doubt the packages will be revealed until a lot closer to the release date, and that's what is important here - no point having the iPhone if the data tariffs remain the same.

Also, i don't know about the U.S., but mobile customers in the UK are not used to paying much for handsets, if anything at all. In fact, in some cases, you can even get a FREE iPod with a FREE phone just for signing up, so asking someone to pay £300 for a handset will be risky.

Oh, and this story is on the BBC News website now, which i think gives it a bit more credence, personally.

ruutiveijari
Jul 5, 2007, 02:59 AM
I'm in Manchester, wifi is everywhere but it isn't always easy to join, even if the access is essentially 'free'.
In Finland Nokia is starting to move things towards UMA-technology. That means it works as a MobileVOIP when you start a call in WiFi and can transfer you automatically (without interrupting the call) to a GSM-network if you move outside the WiFi-area. Calls started within a WiFi-area are most of the time free even if you get changed into a GSM-network.

Philsy
Jul 5, 2007, 03:00 AM
ta tariffs remain the same.

Also, i don't know about the U.S., but mobile customers in the UK are not used to paying much for handsets, if anything at all. In fact, in some cases, you can even get a FREE iPod with a FREE phone just for signing up, so asking someone to pay £300 for a handset will be risky.

.

Indeed, I see that Orange is even offering a free Nintendo DS Lite with all new contracts. Annoying, when I've recently bought two for the kids :rolleyes:

Sverkel
Jul 5, 2007, 03:04 AM
Now they are only starting in 3 country's...Then what about the rest of EU? That's not fair :( :eek: :mad:

Philsy
Jul 5, 2007, 03:07 AM
Here's the BBC report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6272226.stm

Not clear what the £300 is for. I sincerely hope it will be available for much less than that with a contract, otherwise why would anyone buy it when other smart phones can be much less or free? :confused:

CJM
Jul 5, 2007, 03:08 AM
Well it being O2 is good news, as they're my current provider :)


It if isn't 3G, then that is pretty pointless. Why buy an internet phone if the service will genuinely suck? (admittedly I'll use it on WiFi more often than not, but Google Maps while travelling will be invaluable)

oelph@blueyonde
Jul 5, 2007, 03:12 AM
Looks like a good way of harvesting email addresses.... :eek:

Doesn't everyone have a dumping pot email address they use for signing up to things like this?

Fatgadget
Jul 5, 2007, 03:12 AM
At least its not VodaFone, with their crappy branding, or Orange who are useless.

Guess its time to switch provider.

:)

Philsy
Jul 5, 2007, 03:14 AM
Doesn't everyone have a dumping pot email address they use for signing up to things like this?

Yes, I do and, oddly enough, I get less spam sent to it then to my 'proper' email addresses :confused:

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 03:15 AM
Not clear what the £300 is for. I sincerely hope it will be available for much less than that with a contract, otherwise why would anyone buy it when other smart phones can be much less or free? :confused:

I think it's a basic estimate on the current exchange rate: $2=£1, so the $600 price tag in the U.S. is halved. However, I think it's more likely the 4Gb version will be that price - the 8Gb will be closer to £400 if they decide to charge. We always get ripped off.

Project
Jul 5, 2007, 03:15 AM
Here's the BBC report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6272226.stm

Not clear what the £300 is for. I sincerely hope it will be available for much less than that with a contract, otherwise why would anyone buy it when other smart phones can be much less or free? :confused:


:rolleyes: the same thing was said in America. 5 days later, iPhone is completely sold out.

a456
Jul 5, 2007, 03:19 AM
I hope that Apple can negotiate a simplified payment plan with O2 because their current ones seem to be all over the place. I wouldn't know where to start trying to choose one of their current plans - which all come with wait for it drum roll, 1MB of free browsing each month!

Tsurisuto
Jul 5, 2007, 03:20 AM
I was hoping that Apple would have chosen Orange as their service provider in the UK. They offer excellent service and have an excellent image to boot.

mister_L
Jul 5, 2007, 03:21 AM
NO 3G!?!?!? That is ridicoulus!

You can´t win anything but laughter by releasing an "Internet"-Phone without 3G here in Germany (maybe in all of Europe). Even my 2 year old SonyEricsson phone works perfectly as a Bluetooth UMTS-Modem with my Macbook Pro. Why would anyone buy a phone with last-gen technology???:eek:

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 03:25 AM
:rolleyes: the same thing was said in America. 5 days later, iPhone is completely sold out.

Keep it in perspective - Mac enthusiasts were always going to ensure brilliant first week sales, hence the reason the first million flew off the shelf - it's called preaching to the converted.

The same will be the case in the UK - except we have FAR less enthusiasts here, naturally. If they send a million iPhone over here in the first week, they'll do well to sell a tenth of those.

The key for Apple is converting those who need convincing. How many will be sold over the next few weeks online? I doubt they'll reach two million in total.

Gee4orce
Jul 5, 2007, 03:25 AM
3G is the most over-hyped mobile technology ever. The networks paid - literally - BILLIONS for the 3G licences, and ever since they've kind of sat around wondering what the heck to do with it.

Hence they've tried to push mobile video conferencing (have you EVER seen anybody using this ? I have it on both phones on my account, and I've never even bothered to play with it). Since that's a flop, they've tried to push ridiculous ideas like TV on mobile phones via 3G (err...no thanks). T-Mobile seem to be closest to 'getting it' with their Web'n'Walk package, marketed as mobile internet.

So - I don't think 3G is a make or break for many people. In fact, I think most people (read: not people who read internet forums!) don't know or care what it is.

My last 2 or 3 phones have been 3G and you know what ? - it no way lives up to the hype. Browsing using Opera Mini feels no faster than doing it on dialup, and 3G coverage in the UK is spotty at best. Plus my provider (Orange) has had real problems with the handoff between 3G and GSM modes - sometimes I've been stuck with no signal at all, even when there's a great GSM reception.

I still think the best option for everybody would be if the iPhone was just sold unlocked - but that's just not how business works. If every network had the iPhone, then there's no reason for an of them to code Visual Voicemail, or bring out a good unlimited data package, etc. The networks will be willing to do this only if the know it means they'll attract loads of new customers because they are the only ones with the iPhone.

It does seem strange that different networks will get the iPhone in different territories though...

EricNau
Jul 5, 2007, 03:31 AM
What's roaming like within the EU?

Basically, if the iPhone is locked to T-mobile in Germany, O2 in the UK, and Orange in France, how does that affect someone who travels throughout Europe regularly?

Many networks expand through multiple countries, but does it cost more to place calls from different countries under the same network? For example, if I bought a T-mobile iPhone in Germany, but used it in the UK, would I end up paying a fortune?

Project
Jul 5, 2007, 03:32 AM
I was hoping that Apple would have chosen Orange as their service provider in the UK. They offer excellent service and have an excellent image to boot.

Orange have a poor image for customer service.

http://networks.silicon.com/broadband/0,39024661,39167716,00.htm

Keep it in perspective - Mac enthusiasts were always going to ensure brilliant first week sales, hence the reason the first million flew off the shelf - it's called preaching to the converted.

The same will be the case in the UK - except we have FAR less enthusiasts here, naturally. If they send a million iPhone over here in the first week, they'll do well to sell a tenth of those.

The key for Apple is converting those who need convincing. How many will be sold over the next few weeks online? I doubt they'll reach two million in total.

Of course perspective needs to be kept, but selling more phones in a opening weekend than any other phone has done in a month is solely down to Mac owners? Come on now. Lets not forget the dozens of millions of happy iPod owners there are in the states. They are the key to pushing past the enthusiast level.

NO 3G!?!?!? That is ridicoulus!

Apple havent announced anything. Hold on to your criticism for now.

jonparadise
Jul 5, 2007, 03:34 AM
Nooooooooooooooo!

I've used O2 twice and both times found their service rubbish and their billing systems a nightmare.

For one (at the time, don't know if this is still the case) they charged 50p a minute to call their support line!

I cancelled my account and was billed for SIX MONTHS after it was cancelled, despite calling every month. (At 50p a minute). They also took up to 30 minutes to answer at a time. What would they be like with the iPhone demand?

The second time I cancelled because they didn't offer text message delivery confirmations.

Like I say, this may have improved now, I bloody hope so.

Compile 'em all
Jul 5, 2007, 03:35 AM
You cannot argue with 2 facts:
most people do not use 3G
apple caters to most people


The iPhone is a data centric device, one of its main features is being an internet communicator. It is not about what the people wants but what Apple is trying to push. If Apple sells a mobile device, saying you can browse the internet on-the-go then you should expect to be able to do so.

IMHO, if the linked article is accurate then the iPhone will be 3G. It is a fact that o2 has no EDGE in the UK. So the iPhone has to have either UMTS or nothing (read: GPRS).

The Fact that the European release is coming 4-5 months after the US release is an easy way to justify this whole current-3G-chips-drain-battery arguments. Jobs will easily reverse his previous statements by saying: "5 months is a long time in the tech industry and we found this AMAZING power-efficient chip....etc".

If the rumors that Tmobile will be the carrier in Germany and o2 in the UK are true, then I am about 99% sure the iPhone will have UMTS.

Padraig
Jul 5, 2007, 03:36 AM
No they don't. Get your facts straight.

3 have 90% 3G coverage in the UK which is about 15% more than their nearest rivals. They piggyback off O2 and Orange for 2G signal though, but their 3G network is theirs and theirs alone.


I was referring to a posters comment on Ireland, not the UK.

bartelby
Jul 5, 2007, 03:36 AM
Excellent!

I love O2.
I've never had a problem with their customer service and I get a good signal at home. Unlike Vodaphone, Orange etc!

Looks like I know what to get at Christmas!

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 03:37 AM
Also why do some people call it 02? Surely it's a reference to oxygen?

Because that is what Sean Bean keeps telling us to call it.

Same applies for any country - wifi is only in built-up areas.

If the iPhone doesn't have 3G, MMS, a video camera and is subsidised on contract, it will fail miserably in the UK.

Will need 3G and MMS really, video camera although standard on just about every half decent phone now would be a plus for the iPhone.

I'm not so sure. MMS is very popular. In addition, a decent resolution camera would be good - 2Mp is pretty poor by 2007 phone standards.

It is only so so by 2006 standards

I think it's a basic estimate on the current exchange rate: $2=£1, so the $600 price tag in the U.S. is halved. However, I think it's more likely the 4Gb version will be that price - the 8Gb will be closer to £400 if they decide to charge. We always get ripped off.

I think we have moved away from the £400 times, that is the same price as the mac mini (well that was going to be my line of arguement but having checked out the american prrices for the mac mini the iphone is exactly the same as the mac mini which means you could be spot on but I think they will really have to reduce thier prices to get over certain hurdles for the europe market, such as the fact we are all used to free phones. Last October i got the w950 free, 4Gb internal memory, touch screen, 3G for free)

My last 2 or 3 phones have been 3G and you know what ? - it no way lives up to the hype. Browsing using Opera Mini feels no faster than doing it on dialup, and 3G coverage in the UK is spotty at best. Plus my provider (Orange) has had real problems with the handoff between 3G and GSM modes - sometimes I've been stuck with no signal at all, even when there's a great GSM reception.


Wow you should move to another carrier, never had any problems like that with 02

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 03:40 AM
selling more phones in a opening weekend than any other phone has done in a month is solely down to Mac owners?

Erm yes.

Don't be so naive to think mobile phone users across the States were so amazed at the phone that they decided to queue outside stores, regardless of who made it.

Although the iPhone is amazing, it is NOT that revolutionary that thousands of people would pay $600 for it WITHOUT EVEN TESTING THE BLOODY THING.

The impressive figures scream of Mac fans getting in on the act after being made to salivate for six months through sites like this.

Project
Jul 5, 2007, 03:42 AM
Erm yes.

Don't be so naive to think mobile phone users across the States were so amazed at the phone that they decided to queue outside stores, regardless of who made it.

Although the iPhone is amazing, it is NOT that revolutionary that thousands of people would pay $600 for it WITHOUT EVEN TESTING THE BLOODY THING.

The impressive figures scream of Mac fans getting in on the act after being made to salivate for six months through sites like this.

So tell me why it took the iPod about a year to sell what the iPhone did in a weekend, when it was Mac only.

ruutiveijari
Jul 5, 2007, 03:44 AM
So tell me why it took the iPod about a year to sell what the iPhone did in a weekend, when it was Mac only.
The MP3 market in 2001 was a bit different than the mobile phone market in 2007 is.

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 03:46 AM
So tell me why it took the iPod about a year to sell what the iPhone did in a weekend, when it was Mac only.

Oh come on, you can't seriously believe this.

Project
Jul 5, 2007, 03:47 AM
The MP3 market in 2001 was a bit different than the mobile phone market in 2007 is.


Whats your point?

Im trying to say that Mac fans don't flock to buy everything Apple do. Look at the pitiful Apple TV sales. Small iPod sales at launch when Mac only. The iPhone transcends Mac owners. I have people at work talking about it all the time and it hasnt even launched here.

EricNau
Jul 5, 2007, 03:48 AM
Also why do some people call it 02? Surely it's a reference to oxygen?
That reminded me of this lion in front of an O2 store in Munich...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/151369782_0516c52d27_m.jpg

...I just find it hilariously ironic. :D

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 03:50 AM
The MP3 market in 2001 was a bit different than the mobile phone market in 2007 is.

Exactly. Even the mobile phone market of 2001 was far, far removed from what MP3 players were back then, let alone now.

Jim Campbell
Jul 5, 2007, 03:50 AM
He was speaking about 3G in America, my understanding is that 3G in Europe not only uses a different frequency but its technical specs make it more power efficient. Plus, 3G is far more prevalent in Europe so chipsets supporting the European-flavor of 3G are more prevalent and further along than chips that support the U.S. 3G. In other words, I wouldn't necessary assume the reasons Jobs cited for excluding 3G from the American iPhone carries over to the European version. You Europeans may very well get your 3G after all.

Not to mention that the oft-repeated "but you'll be using Wi-Fi most of the time" mantra doesn't cut much ice over here - I spent a couple of hours yesterday wondering Nottingham city centre and couldn't find a single Wi-Fi hotspot that didn't want to charge me an arm and a leg for an hour's internet access.

Cheers

Jim

tjcampbell
Jul 5, 2007, 03:50 AM
Awesome! I'm with o2 Select, the high usage tier, so I'll be getting one for sure! Rock on. T:D

rob@robburns.co
Jul 5, 2007, 03:52 AM
Most cell phone customers get their phones for free in the US too. I really don't think that is a big difference between Europe and the US. However, those who are used to getting their phone for free may not be familiar with other cell phone markets where paying significantly for high end phones is not at all unusual (in Europe or America).

edesignuk
Jul 5, 2007, 03:53 AM
ahhhhhhh nuts. Was really wanting Vodafone or T-Mobile to get it. I hope o2 get a well priced unlimited data tariff in place.

Project
Jul 5, 2007, 03:53 AM
Of course it was different. Nobody would say otherwise. This is about the notion that record iPhone sales are because of Mac owners. You know, the 2.5% of the computer market. Guess what - Windows users like beautiful looking, beautifully designed phones too! And guess what, a lot of them are prepared to pay top dollar for the privilege of owning them. And a lot of Mac owners ARENT prepared to pay top dollar for it - ive seen enough iPhone 'hate' posts in this very forum to know that.

Go do a quick look at some of the bigger mobile forums around the internet. You will find the iPhone threads consist of more posts than any other. There were 25,000 comments left in Engadgets win an iPhone post. And their biggest page views of all time came from the launch of the iPhone. Its a big deal. Beyond the Mac world.

k2k koos
Jul 5, 2007, 03:54 AM
I just got rid of my O2 phone due to some personal bad experiences with their customer service, and switched (back) to Orange.....
Oh well, perhaps I should start living in France :-):apple:

Philsy
Jul 5, 2007, 03:55 AM
Most cell phone customers get their phones for free in the US too. I really don't think that is a big difference between Europe and the US. However, those who are used to getting their phone for free may not be familiar with other cell phone markets where paying significantly for high end phones is not at all unusual (in Europe or America).

Yes, but in the UK we can get a high-end phone free if we take out a heavy-use contract (which can then be reduced to a low use contract afterwards...)

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 03:55 AM
Whats your point?

Im trying to say that Mac fans don't flock to buy everything Apple do. Look at the pitiful Apple TV sales. Small iPod sales at launch when Mac only. The iPhone transcends Mac owners. I have people at work talking about it all the time and it hasnt even launched here.

Yeah, people at work talking about it - but will they buy it?

Apple TV, like the iPod in 2001 is a brand new concept - it's not a product to replace your existing device, so obviously people will be cautious at first.

But with the iPhone, Apple knows that every person who looks at it already already owns a phone (most of which have a 12 month lifespan at most and will be looking to replace it soon) so it's only natural that it will sell.

Of course, there are thousands of non-Mac users who bought the iPhone, but there are probably hundreds of thousands of Mac users who also did.

mints
Jul 5, 2007, 03:56 AM
I wonder if Apple would be super nice and let those of us with the phone to use the Euro carriers in some manner (pay as you go is great for me since I usually spend a few weeks/months a year in the UK visiting my sister and her kids)


How was the Independence Day Unlocking? Did they manage to open it up? I'd open mine up JUST to use another carrier in Europe when traveling since the AT&T rate is WAY out of my league, otherwise I'll have to carry my spare e61i.

notsofatjames
Jul 5, 2007, 03:59 AM
in the spirt of bringing more competitiveness to mobile phone providers (thats what i thought was supposed to be happening by locking it to one provider), apple should release it unlocked, and then make all the phone providers compete with each other for the iPhone market. If at the time of release O2 have the best contracts, i'd go with O2. If orange had better prices, go with orange. This would make the whole market more competitive rather than locking it to one network to monopolize the market.
and then apple would have to supply 3G just so that 3 can use it too. :D

I have to agree releasing iPhone in UK without 3G would be a bit of a flop, since edge is basically non-existent here, and GPRS is like waiting for a snail to do the 100m sprint. But since it hasn't come from Apple yet, i'm not believing one word of it. I'd be quite happy for it to be on 3, since i find their pricing very competitive. But any one of the big 4 would be fine by me.

Project
Jul 5, 2007, 03:59 AM
Yeah, people at work talking about it - but will they buy it?

Apple TV, like the iPod in 2001 is a brand new concept - it's not a product to replace your existing device, so obviously people will be cautious at first.

But with the iPhone, Apple knows that every person who looks at it already already owns a phone (most of which have a 12 month lifespan at most and will be looking to replace it soon) so it's only natural that it will sell.

Of course, there are thousands of non-Mac users who bought the iPhone, but there are probably hundreds of thousands of Mac users who also did.

Well, people at work really dont talk about other mobile phones. I talk about phones with my mates all the time, but not at work. This is the first time people are actually discussing a phone and its features. And Apple hasnt spent a $ on the UK to market the thing.

I really dont see why people are surprised at the notion it doesnt have to be just Mac users picking these things up in droves. Apple sold 20m iPods last quarter. 97% of which were to Windows users.

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 04:07 AM
Apple sold 20m iPods last quarter. 97% of which were to Windows users.

Of course they did, because the iPod is now an established product!

Look, in a year's time, the large percentage of owners of the iPhone will be Windows users, no doubt, it's natural.

But these first week sales have been driven up by Mac enthusiasts and that is unquestionable.

mrfrosty
Jul 5, 2007, 04:08 AM
I have always regarded O2 as something as a joke outside of London. In fact are they not pretty much the worst provider in the UK ? Peronally i think Apple should have got in bed with one of the big boys like vodaphone or orange.

Manic Mouse
Jul 5, 2007, 04:10 AM
I have always regarded O2 as something as a joke outside of London. In fact are they not pretty much the worst provider in the UK ? Peronally i think Apple should have got in bed with one of the big boys like vodaphone or orange.

O2 are huge, at least in Northern Ireland. I'm very happy with this news, I wasn't going to change provider for the iPhone and now it seems like I wont have to!

michaelverdin
Jul 5, 2007, 04:11 AM
While I love Apple products, have been waiting for an iPhone for god knows how long and would happily give my almost new Nokia 8800 Sirocco for one, I just cannot stomach going with 02. I, and many people I know have had enough problems in the past, for one thing, their customer service is one of the worst around.

I have to say, I am very surprised Apple didn't go with Voda, they seem perfectly suited both in style (I'm sorry but the thought of a geordie voice on an 02 advert announcing an iPhone makes me laugh)and their customer base (young and 'HIP')

And as for it being a non-3G phone in the UK....are you serious??????
I'm not predicting by any means that it will fail if it is not 3G, only a moron who completely underestimates Apple's brand loyalty would do that:rolleyes: , i'm just saing it could be much more of a success if it was 3G

I am now going to get some sleep, because this is making me feel ill.......:apple:

Manic Mouse
Jul 5, 2007, 04:13 AM
While I love Apple products, have been waiting for an iPhone for god knows how long and would happily give my almost new Nokia 8800 Sirocco for one, I just cannot stomach going with 02. I, and many people I know have had enough problems in the past, for one thing, their customer service is one of the worst around.

I have to say, I am very surprised Apple didn't go with Voda, they seem perfectly suited both in style (I'm sorry but the thought of a geordie voice on an 02 advert announcing an iPhone makes me laugh)and their customer base (young and 'HIP')

And as for it being a non-3G phone in the UK....are you serious??????
I'm not predicting by any means that it will fail if it is not 3G, only a moron who completely underestimates Apple's brand loyalty would do that:rolleyes: , i'm just saing it could be much more of a success if it was 3G

I am now going to get some sleep, because this is making me feel ill.......:apple:

Vodaphone really brand their phones to death though, this may have been one of the reasons Apple went with O2 who leave them pretty much untouched.

mrfrosty
Jul 5, 2007, 04:17 AM
Well looking at the 'future' coverage on the o2 website (Dark blue means video is enabled).......it looks pretty crap to me. Iv'e seen the future, and it doesn't look like this.

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 04:18 AM
O2 are huge, at least in Northern Ireland. I'm very happy with this news, I wasn't going to change provider for the iPhone and now it seems like I wont have to!

I may have changed but if Voda or Orang or T-Mob or Virgin got it then i wouldn't've done.

Ben Kei
Jul 5, 2007, 04:22 AM
Having used o2 for a while I have to say that their network was terrible.

I understand they have wide coverage but I live in London and has dreadful reception, dropped calls, horrific customer service experience and inflated call costs.

Luckily I still had my T Mobile contract (originally a one2one contract) so I stuck with them.

Granted, o2 have been able to offer a wide range of phones (the reason I tried a contract with them in the first place) but everything about the service I received was total balls.

If o2 do get the iPhone I sure as hell hope they improve their service, signal and customer care and that they don't get a 2 year exclusivity deal like AT&T have in the US.

phatspider
Jul 5, 2007, 04:22 AM
Well, people at work really dont talk about other mobile phones. .

They do at mine ;)

Manic Mouse
Jul 5, 2007, 04:24 AM
Having used o2 for a while I have to say that their network was terrible.

I understand they have wide coverage but I live in London and has dreadful reception, dropped calls, horrific customer service experience and inflated call costs.

Luckily I still had my T Mobile contract (originally a one2one contract) so I stuck with them.

Granted, o2 have been able to offer a wide range of phones (the reason I tried a contract with them in the first place) but everything about the service I received was total balls.

If o2 do get the iPhone I sure as hell hope they improve their service, signal and customer care and that they don't get a 2 year exclusivity deal like AT&T have in the US.

In Northern Ireland the coverage from O2 is excellent, I nearly always have full bars no matter where I go. I've never had dropped calls and customer service has always been a pleasant experience for me. I've had no problems with O2 for the three years I've been with them.

Seems milage varies, eh?

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 04:28 AM
My experience with O2 has been excellent, but i understand it's each to their own.

Personally, what with them soon to announce their ADSL2 broadband service as well, it's not a bad time to be an O2 customer.

displaced
Jul 5, 2007, 04:35 AM
I really don't think we can make any assumptions on the validity of rumours about possible providers based on the provider's current data plans.

The market for mobile 2.5/3G data is in a chicken+egg situation. People don't use it because it's expensive and awkward with no compelling features. However, the price hasn't dropped and there's been no innovation on the device side because people haven't been using it.

I think part of what Apple's offering the carrier is a device which will get users actively using data network in volumes which make reasonably-priced flat-rate dataplans viable.

Sly
Jul 5, 2007, 04:40 AM
The UK iPhone will have to use 3G if Apple want to sell anything like a reasonable quantity. GRPS for web surfing and Google Maps is just a no go. By the time the iPhone launches we will have a touch screen interface iPod for half the price, you don't need to be a genius to work out which will sell if the UK iPhone is crippled.

inkiboo
Jul 5, 2007, 04:41 AM
Wrong way to go - T-Mobile all the way with their great customer service and web n walk package. Orange, O2, Vodafone are awful when trying to contact.

Utter nonsense. Orange for years have been voted as having the best customer service. T-mobile is rubbish in the UK as evidenced by their relatively small business market share.

inkiboo
Jul 5, 2007, 04:45 AM
No they don't. Get your facts straight.

3 have 90% 3G coverage in the UK which is about 15% more than their nearest rivals. They piggyback off O2 and Orange for 2G signal though, but their 3G network is theirs and theirs alone.

3 are rubbish. There is a reason why they are so cheap and that is to get people to move to a rubbish network.

miniConvert
Jul 5, 2007, 04:47 AM
This would be great news for O2 (complementing their music-happy brand and The O2 arena) but not so much for Apple. O2's GSM network is already heavily congested (days of 'free calls' offers tend to see the network collapse) and I'm sceptical that it would perform well with millions of new iPhone activations.

However, if O2 really were to roll out EDGE in time for the launch then I guess it'd make them a strong partner, initially - however once a 3G iPhone comes out the rolls would be reversed as O2 has the least developed 3G network in the UK by miles.

I'm still 'wait and see'. An O2 iPhone wouldn't be the end of the world, but it wouldn't exactly be most peoples preferred choice either.

markfc
Jul 5, 2007, 04:51 AM
O2? WTF? that's everyone outside London screwed.

Come on Apple, you need to go with Orange!!

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 04:56 AM
O2? WTF? that's everyone outside London screwed.

Come on Apple, you need to go with Orange!!

What Sheffield, Birmingham, Nottingham, Manchester, Liverpool all have perfect 02 coverage (reports from Uni friends). Where as they say that people on other networks have trouble with coverage, T-Mobile the worst but orange aren't that great.

dalvin200
Jul 5, 2007, 04:56 AM
3 are rubbish. There is a reason why they are so cheap and that is to get people to move to a rubbish network.

i beg to differ on this my friend..

i was with orange with 10+ years and eventually i got so fed up with their crap i decided to leave..

i gave 3 a chance, and i have not looked back..

i have had no problems with their coverage of 3G and also they have excellent customer support

i pay £5/month for unlimited 3G web access

if the iPhone is not 3G, then i doubt i can take a step back in terms of browsing speeds..

i have not had much experience of o2, but from what i know, they don't personalise them too much compared to voda/orange etc..

a few tweaks i don't mind, but entire colour schemes and menu's rearranged is a royal PITA :p

my current contract with 3 ends in december, so right on the ball if the iPhone has the right specs

NATO
Jul 5, 2007, 05:04 AM
Jesus, do people really not understand that Apple are using the the iphone as leverage to force the telecoms business to stop raping their customers. Apple realizes that it must do this because, left to their own greed and stupidity, the telcos will spend the next decade stunting innovation and new market growth.

Have you ever met a telco executive - absolute, dribbling morons. Unless that entire industry gets it's act together, there is no point in Apple trying to do anything. Steve Jobs realizes that he has ONE chance, one opportunity to use the clout the ipod's success has given him to break down the walls and play the telcos off against one another. These bastards don't want to give away so much power but they are terrified that, if they don't, their competitors will.

The end result, if the gamble pays off, will be a true mass market for mobile broadband and telcos that are far more customer-oriented.

All I know is that in the US, in order to get an iPhone you have to pay the full cost of the handset (ie, totally unsubsidised), AND commit to a 2 year contract. Speaking for most UK people, the whole point of a contract is that you receive a significant discount on the cost of a handset in exchange for committing yourself to a long-term contract (usually 12 months, although 18 months seems to be becoming the norm).

Apple's plans are actually harming the customer because the networks know that if they hold the exclusive rights to the iPhone, they don't have to discount the handset, they don't have to offer a tarriff beyond their normal ones (unless they choose to), and they can force you to sign a 2 year contract, rather than the 12 or 18 month contracts we are used to. Add to that the additional revenue they will receive from people switching to their network because that's the only way people can get an iPhone. Give a network an exclusive like the iPhone, where they know the demand is huge and people will fall over themselves to get one, do you really think they're not going to try to abuse that?

I believe Apple's exclusive deals with only one network in each territory is good for Apple's bottom line, but an absolutely awful deal for the individual customer.

So while I'm quite interested in buying an iPhone, I'm not switching from my current network just to get one, nor will I pay an unsubsidised price if I'd also be signing a long-term contract. Thanks, but no thanks Apple.

Jim Campbell
Jul 5, 2007, 05:05 AM
3 are rubbish. There is a reason why they are so cheap and that is to get people to move to a rubbish network.

I was an early adopter with 3 and this was certainly true at the start, with the network going down every weekend and coverage being distinctly patchy.

However, I have just quite happily renewed my contract with them in the last few months and have had no problems at all over the last eighteen months.

Cheers

Jim

vendettabass
Jul 5, 2007, 05:11 AM
I'm with NATO on this..... £300 and a £30 contract... or free k810i and a £30 contract?

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 05:14 AM
I'm with NATO on this..... £300 and a £30 contract... or free k810i and a £30 contract?

Or a SE P1 free on a £25 contract with 02

Manic Mouse
Jul 5, 2007, 05:15 AM
I'm with NATO on this..... £300 and a £30 contract... or free k810i and a £30 contract?

I have that phone, it's awesome! :D

nja247
Jul 5, 2007, 05:17 AM
Two important questions: first, if O2 is Edgeless, what the hell will it use?

Secondly, my fellow Brits, will you honestly pay over £300 for the :apple: iPhone under contract? I mean on O2's website, you can choose any tariff you want with a 18 or 24 month contract and get most phones FREE. Even the LG Prada is £20, to which the :apple: iPhone has been compared.

I'm just curious as to if people really will pickup on a phone here that is completely unsubsidised under a contract and that lacks 3G.

iGav
Jul 5, 2007, 05:18 AM
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

Are Apple purposely trying to increase the level of crime? What with O2 being the de-facto number one choice of chavs everywhere. :p

Manic Mouse
Jul 5, 2007, 05:19 AM
Two important questions: first, if O2 is Edgeless, what the hell will it use?

Secondly, my fellow Brits, will you honestly pay over £300 for the :apple: iPhone under contract? I mean on O2's website, you can choose any tariff you want with a 18 or 24 month contract and get most phones FREE. Even the LG Prada is £20, to which the :apple: iPhone has been compared.

I'm just curious as to if people really will pickup on a phone here that is completely unsubsidised under a contract and that lacks 3G.

I'm convinced that the EU iPhone will be 3G, it would be such a wasted opportunity if it isn't. Remember the rumours that another manufacturing company got an order for a new iPhone for the end of the year? I think this is the EU iPhone with 3G.

And I'll pay £300 for the iPhone with contract!

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 05:20 AM
Two important questions: first, if O2 is Edgeless, what the hell will it use?

Secondly, my fellow Brits, will you honestly pay over £300 for the :apple: iPhone under contract? I mean on O2's website, you can choose any tariff you want with a 18 or 24 month contract and get most phones FREE. Even the LG Prada is £20, to which the :apple: iPhone has been compared.

I'm just curious as to if people really will pickup on a phone here that is completely unsubsidised under a contract and that lacks 3G.

I'll probably get a really good free phone (P1) and sell it on eBay for approximately £250 then use that money to buy the iPhone meaning it is only £50 or so.

brucebrendon
Jul 5, 2007, 05:21 AM
yeah hopefully it'll tie-in with some new data plans from o2. but may just be o2 coz they support their Openzone wifi in their plans, which'd get the iPhone 'off the hook' (sorry) with the lack of 3G or that new3G! if that's the case, it sucks, in a bad way :(

i'm now with orange PAYG! which i'm lovin', i top up just £10p/m and get:
FREE unlimited 3G internet 7pm-12pm everyday
600 sms
£10 of call credit
and my rarely used orange wednesdays

and now Nokia have released their Media Transfer with iTunes, iCal and iPhoto intergration it's gonna be hard to warrant jackin in my self hated N80 with a 2GB card in it at the expense of about £600 :confused:


i wonder if this was actually on about the iphone?

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/15/orange-to-offer-dsl-and-a-macbook-for-two-euros-per-day/

i'd jus like to see a decent mobi in the uk without dumb oppertor bugs in it!

braisim
Jul 5, 2007, 05:26 AM
NATO is dead right. If Apple were only concerned with the number of iPhones to be sold in Europe, they would just sell unlocked iPhones throughout their retail network everywhere in Europe. There would be no need to work with designated operators in each country. However, they are interested in getting a share of call and date revenues from operators. This is the arrangement in the US and Apple wants to do the same thing in Europe, which is why they can only sign with one operator in each country, since the operators are only interested in sharing revenue if they know that offering the iPhone will bring them new customers. For the consumer, of course, it sucks, as it segments the market and makes it difficult to source the handset separately from the operator. But hey, let's not pretend that Apple is on a "consumer crusade" here. Like the operators, they are looking at the bottom line.

phatspider
Jul 5, 2007, 05:28 AM
Utter nonsense. Orange for years have been voted as having the best customer service. T-mobile is rubbish in the UK as evidenced by their relatively small business market share.

Yes- but you see a lot of people - like the original poster are blinded by price. So they see the cheapest as the best. IMO Vodafone is the best - not the cheapest sure - but the most reliable network, the best service etc. Hence why more businesses go with Voda than any other UK Network - by far!

dalvin200
Jul 5, 2007, 05:28 AM
But hey, let's not pretend that Apple is on a "consumer crusade" here. Like the operators, they are looking at the bottom line.


damn that bottom line ;)

customer should always come first - if it wasn't for us, there wouldn't be no bottom line

Carniphage
Jul 5, 2007, 05:29 AM
In the interview with Mossberg:
Jobs said:
The second reason is more profound: they have spent and are spending a fortune to build these 3G networks, and so far there ain't a lot to do with them. People haven't voted with their pocketbooks to sign up for video on their phones. These phones aren't capable of taking advantage of it. You've used the internet on your phone, it's terrible! You get the baby internet, or the mobile internet -- people want the REAL internet on their phone. We are going to deliver that. We're going to take advantage of some of these investments in bandwidth.

That's pretty clear.
Phone companies have built 3G networks and there is no device that makes a case for using it. The iPhone was designed to.

EDGE is just the downside of the AT&T deal.

LeviG
Jul 5, 2007, 05:30 AM
Yes- but you see a lot of people - like the original poster are blinded by price. So they see the cheapest as the best. IMO Vodafone is the best - not the cheapest sure - but the most reliable network, the best service etc. Hence why more businesses go with Voda than any other UK Network - by far!

got to agree on that, vodafone (and orange I think) are the only company that gives me anything other than 2.5g networks in my local town.

O2 has some of the worst coverage in my area, well apart from t-mobile who can only just about get a signal :rolleyes:

phatspider
Jul 5, 2007, 05:32 AM
NATO is dead right. If Apple were only concerned with the number of iPhones to be sold in Europe, they would just sell unlocked iPhones throughout their retail network everywhere in Europe. There would be no need to work with designated operators in each country. However, they are interested in getting a share of call and date revenues from operators. This is the arrangement in the US and Apple wants to do the same thing in Europe, which is why they can only sign with one operator in each country, since the operators are only interested in sharing revenue if they know that offering the iPhone will bring them new customers. For the consumer, of course, it sucks, as it segments the market and makes it difficult to source the handset separately from the operator. But hey, let's not pretend that Apple is on a "consumer crusade" here. Like the operators, they are looking at the bottom line.

I think this is very greedy of Apple and will mean the iPhone isnt the success it could be. You don't see Nokia or Sony Ericsson demanding revenue shares for phones they sell so why should Apple demand it?

Clearly its a good phone with a great deisgn. So just do what every other phone manufaturer does and sell the damn thing

They are trying to change the market - which is bold yes - but the only people to gain will be Apple and the networks. Bear in mind the network will now have an additional £200 or so profit as they are not having to subsidise a handset.

So the net result in Apple's masterplan is the consumer loses! Again!

gazzzmoly
Jul 5, 2007, 05:33 AM
3 just piggyback off vodafone's 3G.



Actually your wrong 3 have there own network hence they can give low rates for both data and voice.

and when you do drop out of 3 coverage areas you then piggy back onto O2's network. if you remember 3 was in the market 18 months before any of the other network providers even trailed there 3g services

nja247
Jul 5, 2007, 05:35 AM
I have always regarded O2 as something as a joke outside of London. In fact are they not pretty much the worst provider in the UK ? Peronally i think Apple should have got in bed with one of the big boys like vodaphone or orange.

I'm on Tesco Mobile, which uses the O2 network, which for some reason Tesco claims covers 99% of the UK population. Anyhow, from experience going all over England and Cornwall, as well as France, Germany, Belgium, Spain and I've never not had service. Obviously the network providers are different in the other countries, but the point is I've had excellent service and coverage everywhere thus far.

phatspider
Jul 5, 2007, 05:35 AM
Actually your wrong 3 have there own network hence they can give low rates for both data and voice.

and when you do drop out of 3 coverage areas you then piggy back onto O2's network. if you remember 3 was in the market 18 months before any of the other network providers even trailed there 3g services

I think the OP was talking about in ireland - where i beleive they do piggy back off Voda network (from what i've heard)

brucebrendon
Jul 5, 2007, 05:39 AM
so does no one else worry that the o2 deal may be a way to dodge 3G, by using o2/BT Openzone wifi instead?

(i'd be well anoyed if it is!)

mkjj
Jul 5, 2007, 05:39 AM
Changed to o2 a while back and so far have been impressed, great coverage and with 800 mins and 200 texts for £35 a month, minutes roll over one month and with free Sat, Sun and Monday i usually have about 1200 mins per month and still have 2000 mins for free long weekends! Can use the damn minutes!! In fact it has replaced my home phone usage down to zero.

Will be interested, if true, to see how this pans outs. Won't find out from Apple until the day before launach I bet!

russellelly
Jul 5, 2007, 05:39 AM
Actually your wrong 3 have there own network hence they can give low rates for both data and voice.

and when you do drop out of 3 coverage areas you then piggy back onto O2's network. if you remember 3 was in the market 18 months before any of the other network providers even trailed there 3g services

Just for the record 3 UK now use Orange as their backup network. It was previously O2.

Anyway, I really couldn't care less about networks. As long as the speed is right and the price isn't too crazy I'll be there. Fingers crossed for 3G :) It really has to be, if it isn't edge. Surely.

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 05:41 AM
so does no one else worry that the o2 deal may be a way to dodge 3G, by using o2/BT Openzone wifi instead?

(i'd be well anoyed if it is!)

I won't be annoyed, I just won't buy.

Easy.

A lot of people will do the same. I'll save some money if I don't commit to a £35+ contract and a £400 phone :)

gazzzmoly
Jul 5, 2007, 05:43 AM
I am not sure but does O2 even have 3g if so how much are there tariffs. and is there 3g network coverage the same as there 2g


ps
wap= 2g yes? which takes an age to load up a basic text page

so what constitutes 2.5g in the uk and what are the differences in speed between 2g,2.5g and 3g ?

nja247
Jul 5, 2007, 05:44 AM
What's roaming like within the EU?

Basically, if the iPhone is locked to T-mobile in Germany, O2 in the UK, and Orange in France, how does that affect someone who travels throughout Europe regularly?

Many networks expand through multiple countries, but does it cost more to place calls from different countries under the same network? For example, if I bought a T-mobile iPhone in Germany, but used it in the UK, would I end up paying a fortune?

Your plan in your home country has you covered. When you roam into another country you use whatever network is available that your phone supports and simply pay roaming charges, which are scheduled to be regulated and capped in all EU countries shortly. So it won't affect your ability to travel and use your phone.

However a lot of Europeans have multiple SIM cards and swap the cards depending on where they are to always pay the best rates. This would not be possible with the iPhone unless someone unlocks it. Thus, this could be a negative for those who are used to SIM swapping.

brucebrendon
Jul 5, 2007, 05:45 AM
I won't be annoyed, I just won't buy.

Easy.

A lot of people will do the same. I'll save some money if I don't commit to a £35+ contract and a £400 phone :)

ha, true :)

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 05:45 AM
I am not sure but does O2 even have 3g if so how much are there tariffs. and is there 3g network coverage the same as there 2g


ps
wap= 2g yes? which takes an age to load up a basic text page

so what constitutes 2.5g in the uk and what are the differences in speed between 2g,2.5g and 3g ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 05:46 AM
I am not sure but does O2 even have 3g if so how much are there tariffs. and is there 3g network coverage the same as there 2g

02 have had 3G for ages now. 3G coverage is very good, i rarely go to places where it drops down to normal GSM. Currently data tariffs are very expensive in my expereince but this will go down with the iPhone release if apple works their magic like they did with at&t

Carniphage
Jul 5, 2007, 05:51 AM
As a European (brit) who's played with the iPhone, I have a couple of observations.

People were not buying this device blind. The Applestores are full of iPhones to play with. The SF store had maybe 20-30 units on display. These were not dummies, but actual phones. They are live too. You could make calls on them. Try them out. They had only blocked international dialling.

Now that is some enlightened thinking. I have never been in a Carphone Warehouse and had a chance to actually touch a real phone until I'd signed the 'effin contract. That's why phone interfaces are so crap. We don't get to see how bad they are until after we have paid up.

I tried disabling WiFi and trying Safari over Edge. It's a dramatic slow-down from WiFi, but essentially usable. Kinda ISDN speed. Certainly faster than GPRS.

I have no doubt that Euro versions will be 3G. But no one is gonna say that now because it will irritate US purchasers. NDAs will ensure the fact will not come out until the last possible moment.

C.

gazzzmoly
Jul 5, 2007, 05:56 AM
I wasn't sure i have never seen it advertised (o2 3g) but according to the origonal post it says that they will be carrying on 2.5g. is that gprs?

and if so that will be a major setback i don't think i would buy one. seems a little pointless to have all these features on a phone that would become a little redundant when you have blackberry and 3g.

as for somebody saying will they pay £300 for an un-subsidized phone.
People payed £299 for the Xda when it first came out(including me) but i must also confess. i no longer have a smart phone, it took too long to open webpages, to long to send email and back then data was also very expensive.

I will deffo get an iphone if it is on 3g (probably be first inline on release day)
but if it isnt i would need to give it some careful consideration.

ascender
Jul 5, 2007, 05:58 AM
I'm pleased with O2 as they seem to have a far better coverage of the UK than Orange, who seem to be superb in cities but patchy once you move outside of them.

As for 3G, I have started using it recently and it does work very well. Finally it makes using your phone as a web browser, email client etc a realistic proposition.

I'd be very disappointed if it wasn't included in the iPhone over here. Is 3G much faster than GPRS in terms of data transfer rates?

Devil's Refugee
Jul 5, 2007, 06:00 AM
O2....nightmare
No 3G.....nightmare

Just how is Apple supposed to break the UK market with this kind of strategy ?!

:(

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 06:02 AM
O2....nightmare
No 3G.....nightmare

Just how is Apple supposed to break the UK market with this kind of strategy ?!


Don't worry, until the press releases come out this is all rumour.

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:03 AM
O2....nightmare
No 3G.....nightmare

Just how is Apple supposed to break the UK market with this kind of strategy ?!

:(

What is specifically wrong with 02, apart from customer services experiences which are probably typical of all of them. 02 have a decent network coverage, the best in mine and my friends experience

Shadow
Jul 5, 2007, 06:04 AM
If the iPhone in Europe has no 3G, it is an utter waste of time for Apple to bring it here. I will not buy an iPhone unless it has 3G.

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 06:05 AM
Is 3G much faster than GPRS in terms of data transfer rates?

Yes. It's HSDPA you really need though, that's what everyone else will have come November.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:07 AM
Yes. It's HSDPA you really need though, that's what everyone else will have come November.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3G

Good point we are currently comparing it to the phones and market now but in November there will be lots of new phones available, therefore 3G is a definite must.

Devil's Refugee
Jul 5, 2007, 06:09 AM
PMSL

I've just phoned O2 customer services to 'register an interest'

"Hello, I'd like to know if I can register interest in the Apple iPhone"

"What ? Never heard of it. Apple Eye ?!"

"No, the iPhone....I believe O2 have secured exclusive rights to supple the iPhone in the UK"

"I'm sorry....eye-what ??"

phatspider
Jul 5, 2007, 06:11 AM
O2....nightmare
No 3G.....nightmare

Just how is Apple supposed to break the UK market with this kind of strategy ?!

:(

Indeed - when other phones launched now - and at the time will be running over 3.6 mbps HSDPA 3G and possibly 7.2 - how can Apple compete at a paltry 0.4 mbps of the GPRS network

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:12 AM
PMSL

I've just phoned O2 customer services to 'register an interest'

"Hello, I'd like to know if I can register interest in the Apple iPhone"

"What ? Never heard of it. Apple Eye ?!"

"No, the iPhone....I believe O2 have secured exclusive rights to supple the iPhone in the UK"

"I'm sorry....eye-what ??"

It is not even offical confirmed yet so you can't expect some call centre lacky to know about it, unless of course they have seen it in the news or on here.

phatspider
Jul 5, 2007, 06:12 AM
Good point we are currently comparing it to the phones and market now but in November there will be lots of new phones available, therefore 3G is a definite must.

We have 3.6mbps enable HSDPA phones available here and now - today even. Nokia N95, Samsung U700 etc.

So even 4/5 months ahead of the iphone launching its out of date

bbcxx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:15 AM
[QUOTE=emotion;3875560]Yes. It's HSDPA you really need though, that's what everyone else will have come November.


That is so Apple. They bring out a great product, but they f/// up somewhere else. Everything is going HSDPA and they stick to EDGE? Might work great in the US, but wifi spots are not everywhere, most certainly not there where i would use the net on a phone.

Seems like they really don't see how different some markets are.

Kinda like the thing with the MacBook Pro

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:16 AM
We have 3.6mbps enable HSDPA phones available here and now - today even. Nokia N95, Samsung U700 etc.

So even 4/5 months ahead of the iphone launching its out of date

What is was saying is that HSDPA phones will be availble on most current phones on the market so the iPhone will look very dated by that time in this regard.

georgeoommen
Jul 5, 2007, 06:23 AM
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this before, but in my experience (been with O2 in the UK for just under 4 years), they never lock phones to their network. I can get a free phone on contract and immediately go put another SIM in their and it'll work. No need to bother with getting it unlocked etc. Even the O2 XDAs dont come locked.

I think this applies to their pay as you go phones as well but i'm not sure. Never tried one before. But if this is an O2 policy and the iPhone comes out on O2 then chances are it'll be unlocked. Making it so much easier for us to put in a local SIM when we go travelling somewhere...

Devil's Refugee
Jul 5, 2007, 06:24 AM
If you look at the teardown pics, there's definitely space in there for more hardware, like a 3G chip. I'm really hoping there's a revision model out for the European launch, otherwise I'll be waiting for the 3G model.
Early adopters will be stung badly.

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:26 AM
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this before, but in my experience (been with O2 in the UK for just under 4 years), they never lock phones to their network. I can get a free phone on contract and immediately go put another SIM in their and it'll work. No need to bother with getting it unlocked etc. Even the O2 XDAs dont come locked.

I think this applies to their pay as you go phones as well but i'm not sure. Never tried one before. But if this is an O2 policy and the iPhone comes out on O2 then chances are it'll be unlocked. Making it so much easier for us to put in a local SIM when we go travelling somewhere...

That has been my experience as well but it may well change for the iphone, who knows. At least they wont change the bloody interface (orange and voda are extremely bad at this)

hollerz
Jul 5, 2007, 06:32 AM
Is 3G coverage in the UK good in all places, not just cities? Looking at the carriers coverage maps it looks like it's just the cities that can get video calling etc., and I can't imagine these are out of date.

Devil's Refugee
Jul 5, 2007, 06:32 AM
Someone on another forum made a comment about the iPhone not being able to handle MMS ??

Surely not. If it were true, then having no 3G, no personalised ringtone functionality and no MMS would kill the iPhone in Europe, especially the UK.

Apple really needs to do more research into the market across here.

nja247
Jul 5, 2007, 06:32 AM
If you look at the teardown pics, there's definitely space in there for more hardware, like a 3G chip. I'm really hoping there's a revision model out for the European launch, otherwise I'll be waiting for the 3G model.
Early adopters will be stung badly.

I doubt there will be a revision, just (hopefully) updated hardware. I couldn't see iPhone 2.0 within 6 months.

geese
Jul 5, 2007, 06:33 AM
According to this Guardian article (http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2118955,00.html) adding EDGE capability is quite easy.

From The Guardian

The other operators, however, say that upgrading to the new high-speed data service needed for the iPhone is not expensive, as it is merely a software upgrade; it does not need a full-scale refit of existing wireless networks, unlike the switch to 3G, which has cost the industry billions of pounds.

So it may well be likely that we get a very similar deal here as we do in the US.

I've been on o2 for 7 years, I think the coverage is very good now (far better then it was 5 years ago) and the customer service reasonable. I was scared that it'd be on Carphone Warehouse's own 'virtual' network (whose name I've forgotten, i think it was called 'Fresh')

phatspider
Jul 5, 2007, 06:35 AM
theres a tool on vodafone site which shows you

http://maps.vodafone.co.uk

Its fairly extensive in built up area's (not just london)

Devil's Refugee
Jul 5, 2007, 06:35 AM
Originally Posted by georgeoommen
I dont know if anyone has mentioned this before, but in my experience (been with O2 in the UK for just under 4 years), they never lock phones to their network. I can get a free phone on contract and immediately go put another SIM in their and it'll work. No need to bother with getting it unlocked etc. Even the O2 XDAs dont come locked.

I think this applies to their pay as you go phones as well but i'm not sure. Never tried one before. But if this is an O2 policy and the iPhone comes out on O2 then chances are it'll be unlocked. Making it so much easier for us to put in a local SIM when we go travelling somewhere...

It'll be locked. They did it with AT&T, why not here. If it's a prerequisite for the deal, O2 could not release it unlocked. Where's the exclusivity when you could buy one on a PAYG in theory and then lob in a decent carrier's SIM (like Vodafone....you listening Apple ?!)

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:35 AM
Someone on another forum made a comment about the iPhone not being able to handle MMS ??

Surely not. If it were true, then having no 3G, no personalised ringtone functionality and no MMS would kill the iPhone in Europe, especially the UK.

Apple really needs to do more research into the market across here.

At this stage it does not do MMS. CAn easily be added by apple via softare update but that relies on apple adding it which is not guaranteed.

It'll be locked. They did it with AT&T, why not here. If it's a prerequisite for the deal, O2 could not release it unlocked. Where's the exclusivity when you could buy one on a PAYG in theory and then lob in a decent carrier's SIM (like Vodafone....you listening Apple ?!)

I'm sure apple don't care about the lock it is really the phones company decision if the lock is there to protect their exclusivity.

Ben Kei
Jul 5, 2007, 06:38 AM
In Northern Ireland the coverage from O2 is excellent, I nearly always have full bars no matter where I go. I've never had dropped calls and customer service has always been a pleasant experience for me. I've had no problems with O2 for the three years I've been with them.

Seems milage varies, eh?

Yes it seems to.

My girlfriend is Irish, from Drogheda, and she has an o2 sim card for when she's back in Ireland because it works so well there.
She also has a UK o2 phone and says the 2 aren't even comparable.

My point was more that I had been on o2 in London, experienced terrible service, reception etc..

Now the population of the UK stand at about 61 million with 9-10 million (officially) living in London, and as many as 17 million during work hours.

The way I see it, effectively passing bad service onto a quarter of an entire population in order to ensure coverage in rural areas is practically suicide. (Not saying NI is rural here! My sister lives out in Suffolk and everyone there is on o2 or Vodaphone cos they have good coverage)

redwin11
Jul 5, 2007, 06:39 AM
Here's the confirmation you all were waiting for:

www.o2.co.uk/iphone

emotion
Jul 5, 2007, 06:39 AM
According to this Guardian article (http://technology.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2118955,00.html) adding EDGE capability is quite easy.



The plot thickens. This doesn't mean the market will accept such low standards though.