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View Full Version : How many have you switched to Mac, and how?


billyboy
Jul 18, 2003, 02:26 AM
I have been quietly extolling the virtues of Macs since I switched (with no input from anyone) last year, and whilst only a couple have said Mac is crap despite some pretty nifty demoes, no one I know has actually gone out and bought a new Mac .

The thing is though, people like my father, who really do need an alternative to the wierd vagaries of PC and Windows, are so committed financially to their current system, it is hard to justify the switch - unless their system literally breaks down and they have to consider buying a new computer. And even then, what do they do with all the PC software that hasnt come cheap? I cant seee there is any resale value in it to recoup some losses.

Any Mac heads out there with a few switcher scalps under their belt got any good salesman tactics for overcoming every obstacle and resistance? Personally I think it is the software that catches the eye, and when iTMS comes out for Windows I am sure it will sell like hot cakes, but will it really persuade people to go the whole tootie and switch from a PC all together.

hvfsl
Jul 18, 2003, 04:41 AM
The problem is most people I know are gamers, so for them a Mac is no good. Others I know are creative types and would love to get a Mac because they are so much better, it is just the price puts them off. The only people I have managed to make get a Mac are first time buyers that have not used Windows or Mac OS before. I just showed them how much easier Mac OS is and then went out and got one. Also you could always say you will give them help if they run into any problems while getting used to Mac OS if they switch from Windows.

mrjamin
Jul 18, 2003, 05:03 AM
i'd always been aware of macs, and when i was 17, i got a temp-job working for a webdesign company and ended up working on an OS8 powermac. I loved it! So yeah, 4 years later, i was utterly hacked off with my windows box and decided it was time to look into macs again. Bought myself an iBook, now thinking about ditching the peecee altogether and getting a G5, but i think thats wishful thinking as the chances of me having the money for quite some time is pretty remote.

oh yeah, back ontopic - i switched my girlfriend

Nermal
Jul 18, 2003, 06:33 AM
I switched my cousin by mistake :D He came and visited, didn't see my iBook, and had no idea I owned a Mac. But the iBook was working its magic, because my cousin suddenly declared that he was buying a PowerBook! I showed him my iBook and he was quite impressed - he'd never used OS X before, so after half an hour of his fiddling I had a huge dock with little black triangles underneath every single icon :rolleyes:

A bit off topic, but I think I'll go on and explain what brought me to the Mac in the first place. The first Mac I used was a Classic in 1994 at school. I thought it was a strange little machine! Next year we had an LC in the classroom, which was a huge improvement (colour screen and SimCity!)

In 1998 one of my friends at school had found a Mac emulator on the net. I managed to find the necessary ROM, plus the copy of 7.0.1 that was available for free download from Apple (and still is!). Over the next couple of years, emulation progressed, and I ended up using a purchased copy of OS 8.1 (same version as the original iMac!) on Basilisk II.

In 2001, I met a guy who swore by Macs. He explained the G4, and AltiVec (yes he did call it AltiVec and mentioned that Apple had a different name for it). I popped onto Apple's site and had a look, but I wasn't too sure how much they'd changed since OS 8.1.

Later on in 2001 I had a class that used G4 Macs (running 8.6 I think). They were hooked up to a network and were horribly slow. Not a good impression. But I knew enough about computers to know that it was most likely their configuration, and the fact that there were literally hundreds of Macs, PCs, and Linux machines on that network.

At the start of this year, I started doing a course in a nearby city. It quickly became apparent that I'd be travelling back and forth a lot, and that it'd be a pain to lug my AMD desktop around in the car. I knew I needed a laptop. So I looked around and started comparing prices. I was open-minded enough to compare Macs too. I don't do much gaming, but it was important to me to get a decent video card in the laptop. So I look at all the "cheapies" with Windows, and they've got like 8 meg video cards or whatever. So guess what the cheapest laptop with a decent video card is! You guessed right, it's the iBook :)

I was originally going to go for the 12", but in the end decided to pay the extra $150 and go up to the 14". It arrived on Valentine's Day, and I fell in love with it. I feel really stupid for writing that! :D

So that's my story, and this is quite possibly the longest post I've made on these forums. I'll stop rambling now.

homeshire
Jul 18, 2003, 06:59 AM
after a few years of trying, i finally bagged my first switcher yesterday!!!

ok, ok, it was only my sister. but it was nonetheless an emac that apple hadn't sold until yesterday.

i have constantly been amazed at how easy it is to impress others with a mac, and how damnably hard it can be to get one to actually say "i'll buy". they come up with one meaningless excuse after another. and it always astounds me.

the only strategy i can think of, which should work magnificently, but always seems to fail, is to take the wintelites concerns about his $1000.s of dollars of software (i've always found this a dubious claim on their part anyway) and point out that it comes pretty much bundled as an incredibly beautiful package on virtually every mac sold. they won't miss anything with mass appeal. the only thing they might miss out on is perhaps some specific targeted app that doesn't exist for the mac.

all in all, this whole argument and debate just shows the enormous power of fud that is the main arsenal in the m$ and intel campaign of domination.

jefhatfield
Jul 18, 2003, 07:33 AM
the easiest person by far to turn onto macs are people who are first time users

they have not seen the "price difference" and the stats "on paper" which favors, at first glance, the pc machines

mwpeters8182
Jul 18, 2003, 08:24 AM
I had first switched by buying a cube -- but my schoolwork required a laptop, so I went out and bought an HP laptop [biggest mistake ever - the CD drive died, and it's now just sitting there with no OS on it] -- but I also went out and bought a G3 Blue and White tower, which i have thrown a G4 chip into. It's now almost as fast as my cube was.

Needless to say, the HP will be replaced with an iBook 12" as soon as I can get the money.

MP

sonofslim
Jul 18, 2003, 09:09 AM
i switched 6 or 7 years ago when i started working in publishing and design, initially because the software was, and still is, on the mac. but i realized soon enough that the efficiency and productivity you get with a mac is a huge benefit. it's really not just a different operating system -- it's a better designed, more user-centric operating system.

example: last time i put a brand-new mac online, i opened a control panel and typed in the network name and the wep key. last time i put a brand-new PC online, i had to deal with drivers, bindings, configurations, blah blah blah... i really feel that on a mac, you spend less time working with software/hardware related issues and more time working on your work. your computer should be a tool to solve a problem, not a problem in itself -- i mean, what if you had to reinstall the OS on a hammer before you could hit a nail?

i still work with PCs on an almost daily basis and my initial observation of 7 years ago still holds true -- the amount of time i spend doing non-productive tasks on the PC (restarting, reconfiguring, removing my hair in frustration, etc.) is way, way more than on the mac.

iShater
Jul 18, 2003, 09:46 AM
I guess technically it is 1.5, I helped a friend switch (add) an iMac, and helped someone make the decision to go with a PowerBook.

Starting with the PowerBook. The machine pretty much sold itself, a collegue of mine was looking to buy a laptop and asked around if anybody knew stuff about Macs. A buddy of mine told her to talk to me, she asked me questions, I explained everything I knew about the 12" PowerBook, and over the weekend she went out and got herself a nice top-of-the-line 12" PowerBook. However, I *did* point her to the iPod when I saw her old jukebox or whatever-it-is-called player. She got a 3G one immediately!

My other friend is a true "switch" story. He was into movie making on his Dell computer and absolutely hated the software and hardware that came with it. So I kept mentioning iMovie and iMac enough times that he got interested in checking them out. I took him to CDW and the Apple Store and slowly he decided that was the way he wanted to go. He is the proud owner of a 800Mhz 17" FP iMac, and he has gotten quite good at using it!!!

As for me, well, my story is long, I will save it for the Switch Stories forum :D

patrick0brien
Jul 18, 2003, 10:25 AM
-All

I find the easiest to 'switch' aren't swithers at all technically - they are office workers who use a PC (98, 2k) but don't own one of their own yet, but are looking.

As a result, they see the various sillyness that PC's can display - especially EEK'ed by IT, and are driven to value. And let's face it, with the TOC, Tech support and quality, Macs have value in spades.

As for getting an honest switcher, a PC user to Mac, well, that's difficult due to entrenchment. Getting a Mac user to switch to PC is only a little more difficult.

I think an honest switcher switches themselves, then asks a friend for assistance.

trebblekicked
Jul 18, 2003, 10:43 AM
i switched 2 and lost one. after i got my tibook, i bagged a couple switchers in three weeks. I got two guys to buy 15" 1 giggers with superdrives in Nov/December. Then i treated them to a webcast of MWSF and showed them around OSX for a while. Funny, in the past week, all three of our AC adapters blew. Same batch, i suppose. Anyway, i almost had a third, but he opted for a $600 Compaq POS and is paying the price now. I've got two swtichers on the line, both looking at 12" ibooks, and my parents are thinking about a FP imac.

MacManDan
Jul 18, 2003, 10:53 AM
After switching myself, my friend saw my TiBook, used it for a few minutes, and went home that night and bought a PowerMac. He jumped in right away! He thought OS X was the coolest thing he'd seen and the laptop's design was top-notch (this was about 11 months ago).

In January, my father was looking to buy his computer, and he remembered that I had a PBook. It didn't take a lot of convincing to get him to buy a 1Ghz TiBook (he didn't want to wait 3-4 months for the 17" to ship), and he loves it. He says he's convinced it's the best computer ever created.

My girlfriend has been complaining constantly about how her Compaq Windows-based PC never works. The DVD/CD-ROM drive didn't read anything except DVDs, Windows crashed literally every day (no joke or exaggeration here), her LCD was failing, and she was never able to get it to work the way she wanted. I took her to the CambridgeSide Galleria Apple Store and she fell in love with the 12" iBook. A couple of days ago, she ordered one from Amazon.com and it's in the mail as we speak (unless they haven't shipped it yet ;) ). I've never seen her so excited about getting anything that she's ordered before. She was so mad it didn't ship last night, it was very funny. I hope she enjoys it (and doesn't get too frustrated with her switch from Windows!)

Two other friends of mine have asked me about my PowerBook, how much I like it, how difficult the switch was, etc. One of my friends says he is going to buy a PBook as soon as he gets the money, and the other one is still shopping around for a new laptop, but is seriously considering one for its portability and battery life. I guess you could say they're half-switchers!

So total, I've switched 4 people (3 people + 2 'half-switchers'). :) Heh

mmoin
Jul 18, 2003, 11:03 AM
I guess I'm not so much a switcher as someone who's "returned" to the fold, as I had a IICi and a Performa back in elementary school, but then moved to PC. Got a 12" iBook in january and haven't regretted it since (well, except for when I messed it up by installing some beta software). my sister also got a 12" at the same time, she loves it, and hopefully my parents are going to get a 12" ibook in the next month or so, they're getting sick of their old dell. hooray for apple

Shobai
Jul 18, 2003, 11:33 AM
Heistant DOPE:
"Yeah, but mac has like..NO software...the PC's got thousands of different software titles to choose from."

One Who's Seen the Light:
"Uh, why would you want thousands of choices in a software title....you get 999 bad, pieces of crap, don't work half the time titles and 1 really good one. But on a mac, you have enough to choose from, and they're ALL good. So the real problem is, the PC's got thousands of choices.... have fun trying to choose wisely. While I'll just close my eyes and grab one of the 10,000 Mac apps (yeah..10,000!)...knowing full well it'll work and I'll be happy with it."

Heistant DOPE:
"........"

One Who's Seen the Light:
"exactly"

MacBoyX
Jul 18, 2003, 12:04 PM
13.

It's not an unlucky number to me. Since I switched in February 2001...

My mom, sister, 2 best friends, 7 other friends, boyfriend, best friend's sister and working on my uncle.

Most of them only had to use my PowerBook or iMac to decide, most of the "other friends" I took to the Apple store near me...answered some of their questions, dispelled some myths...

The more amazing thing is that 2 of the people were my WORST PC Support Customers... since then neither have called to ask ANYTHING more than what do u think of.... no more..my nic card isnt working, it crashed and now i have this dumb blue screen lol.

I recommend showing anyone who will look ur Mac(s) and letting them decide for themselves.

I agree with Patrick too... most of my switchers me included are PC Users at work and Mac users at home...and very happy people I might add.

If you want see my switcher time line..i posted it in another thread the other day...

Switcher Timeline (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32413)

Thanks for asking I been wanting to tell someone this for a while lol.

MacBoyX

billyboy
Jul 18, 2003, 12:18 PM
Having seen my mates miserably try to use winamp to play me the latest greatest tune from their "collections", I reckon making an iTunes playlist from my 3000+ library is a good demo of the ease of use.

Anyone got a stock in trade mind-blowing trick to impress inquisitive PC users?

c2kvette
Jul 18, 2003, 12:18 PM
I've switched two people, one bought a new 12" iBook and another a 15" FP iMac, and four more are wanting to buy a Mac. All this because they saw my new FP 17" iMac and fell in love with it. All I have to do is show them all the cool stuff it will do and how simple it is.

There are only really two things that I run into when trying to get switchers, which are:

"Macs are too expensive, I can get a PC for $500"
"There not compatible with my software"

bryanc
Jul 18, 2003, 12:29 PM
I semi-switched just over a year ago (bought a powerbook, but still have a PC desktop). Since then I have become a Mac Evangelist. My Mac is *SO* much better than my PC there is no question of what I will buy when I need to replace my desktop.

Since acquiring my Mac, I've strongly influenced several purchases that may have gone PC otherwise, but I don't know if I've actually 'switched' any one.

Like any other significant decision, it is essential that individuals have freedom to choose what they will, and desirable that they have as much relevant information as possible. When the relevant information is available, intelligent people will usually (depending on their needs and constraints) choose macs.

I do find the idea that we are converting the heathen Windows users to the One True Faith amusing (especially because I'm an atheist).

rueyeet
Jul 18, 2003, 01:53 PM
I'll tell you how they got me: watching my brother-in-law wandering around the house with that beautiful TiBook in the palm of his hand, Internet connection up and running via AirPort. Then they came out with OS X and the iPod. Didn't take long for Windows to straw me its last straw, and voila! a Switcher I became.

I haven't managed to convert anyone, not being much of the evangelist personality. The only people I know remotely interested in switching to the Mac are Unix geeks, who worship Linus Torvalds and talk of "proprietary solutions" in dark mutterings, so that's kind of a no-go. They're the kind of Linux proponents who distrust anything they can't see the full source code of, and for whom ease of use is not only vastly underrated, but a fairly skewed perception.

I think the key is to use your Mac in the potential Switcher's presence to do whatever they've complained to you about doing on their Windows machine.

Abstract
Jul 18, 2003, 02:16 PM
Why hasn't anyone said, "I switched because of those cool Switcher Ads". :p

I hate people who bash Macs and go buy PC's without even checking out the alternatives. Freedom of choice has always been such a bad thing. :cool:

GO RUSSIA!!!! GO CHINA!!!!

solvs
Jul 18, 2003, 02:17 PM
I've "elightened" some people myself. ;) But you'll always get some people who, despite hating Windows, won't get a Mac. Mostly gamers and the uninformed.

As far as the software thing goes, besides VirtualPC, you do know that most of the time you can do a cross-platform software upgrade, right? Lets say you own a legal copy of Photoshop 6 for PC. You can buy the Photoshop 7 upgrade for Macs. Saves you a ton of money. Apples got an even better thing going right now for former Premier users.

And as someone who's done audio/video on a PC, trust me, buy a Mac.

Besides, most of what most people need already comes with a Mac. Basic video, audio, DVD, imaging, etc. With lots of shareware and freeware.

Daveman Deluxe
Jul 18, 2003, 02:35 PM
I've switched two people so far.

My youth pastor was using a Compaq, but he had to keep all his stuff on floppy disks because the hard disk would delete any files he had saved. Last December, his new 15" TiBook came in on my suggestion. His first question to me was about how to save his files to a CD-RW. I told him to relax and save it to his hard disk. He wasn't sure, but I told him I'd put my future career as a youth pastor on the line and he believed me. His Compaq sits in the corner and all he's used it for since then is to do his taxes.

Another guy, whom I draw a webcomic with, got an iBook for Christmas this year from his dad. For the longest time his PC was acting up. Typical "It restarts every five minutes" PC nonsense. Last summer he decided that was going to be his last PC and asked his dad for an iBook for his Christmas/graduation gift. He got it the week after Christmas and was happy as a clam. AirPort, 640 MB RAM, the whole nine yards. He didn't have any way to get on the Internet, unfortunately, but one day he was in his room and he saw that iChat said he was online. It turns out he's been mooching bandwidth for the last four months off a neighbor, but it's not a big deal. He'll be in college with a real Internet connection soon enough.

Gus
Jul 18, 2003, 09:21 PM
I'm on my 12th switcher, and the last two were my favorites. At a conference I went to this summer, the guy that I shared a room with was an ex-IT guy from Morgan Stanley in NYC. HE started asking me about Apple's laptops, and a week later he purchased a PowerBook. A week after that, I got an e-mail from him telling me that he had switched another mutual friend of ours. A switcher switching someone. How great! :)

Regards,
Gus

LordMord
Jul 20, 2003, 06:19 AM
I was pretty much the first person I know to get to grips with PCs...so, over the years I turned into the 'local' tech support guy.

As time goes on and days seem to get shorter I started to get a bit fed up with all the problems people were getting so...I told my friends that I use Macs and that if they want my help then they need to concider switching.

Well, not too many of them are still on PC...

Ah...the peace and quiet...ah...blizz :p :D :cool:

pseudobrit
Jul 20, 2003, 01:30 PM
I've probably bagged about 4-5. Three of them have or are on the verge of making hardware purchases.

Oh, and as for the "how," it's the easiest sale you'll ever do; the Mac (with OS X) sells itself.

gerror
Jul 21, 2003, 04:58 AM
I just switched my best friend. His parents owned a pc while he was still living at his parents. He received about 2300 euro's from his work and we spend it up to 10 euro. Bought a nice 15 inch fp and a scanner/printer and a digital camera. He is very happy except for the fact his ADSL is not working yet. I'll have a look tonight.

billyboy
Jul 22, 2003, 06:07 PM
I asked a PC owner to list the software titles he uses. Roughly how much are you looking at spending to maintain this capability when switching to a new Mac? It looks quite a daunting obstacle to overcome in the switch campaign. The iLife suite doesnt cover all these bases. At least the hardware is the least of one´s condsiderations

Windows 98, Microsoft Publishe,Word,Excel,Outlook and Explorer.

Encarta 2002,Encyclopaedia Britannica,Norton anti Virus2003, IBM Via Voice,

Adaptec CD Writer, Wacom tablet, Terrapin FTP, Ordinance Survey, Roxio

Photosuite 5, Paint Shop Pro 7, Adobe Elements, Adobe Photoshop Album,

Jessops Photo software, Games-Free Cell & Solitaire,

Programs used occasionally-

Webster world Series used, Swift, Easycleaner, Epson Photo Quicker,

Core Design, Art Explosion, Lifestyle software- Gardens, Namo WebEditor

IspQ Video Chat 6, Communication- Dialup networking, Internet connection

Wizard, Phone Dialer, Direct Cable Connection, Entertainment- CD Player,

Interactive CD Sampler, Sound Recorder, Volume Control, Media Player,

Internet Tools, Systems Tools, Calculator, Imagingt, Notepad, Paint,

Word Pad, Address Book, Europress- Barleywood garden & design,Medical

Library, AA Multimedia, Plantcare encyclopaedia, ACD Systems,

Photolightning, Acrobat Reader 5,Garden- Encyclopaedias 1&2, 3D Landscapes,

Direct Scan.

solvs
Jul 22, 2003, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by billyboy
I asked a PC owner to list the software titles he uses. Roughly how much are you looking at spending to maintain this capability when switching to a new Mac? It looks quite a daunting obstacle to overcome in the switch campaign. The iLife suite doesnt cover all these bases. At least the hardware is the least of one´s condsiderations

Windows 98 - OS X (comes with Mac). Upgrades about $130.

Microsoft Publisher, Word, Excel, Outlook and Explorer. - Who still uses Publisher? ;) :P Office X, or AppleWorks, or Thinkfree, for most of it. You'd have to pay for the PC version and/or upgrades for Windows and Office anyway. Sometimes free with a new Mac to $199. Mail and Safari, free.

Encarta 2002, Encyclopaedia Britannica, IBM Via Voice - Plenty of Encyclopdia and voice recognition software, but yes, you do have to pay for it. About $50 - $100. Again, you'd have to pay for the upgrade anyway.

Norton anti Virus2003 - Don't need antivirus, but you can get it if you need to. $60 to $130.

Adaptec CD Writer, Wacom tablet, Terrapin FTP, Ordinance Survey, Roxio - iTunes (Roxio Toast if you need it, $100), USB Tablets work fine on Macs, plenty of free and cheap FTP programs, not sure about the last one.

Photosuite 5, Paint Shop Pro 7, Adobe Elements, Adobe Photoshop Album, Jessops Photo software - iPhoto, Elements 2 $60 ($100 minus $30 off for users of other Photoshop Elements and/or Photodeluxe), plenty of Paint programs (but they can be kind-of expensive).

Games-Free Cell & Solitaire - Versiontracker, free/shareware.

Webster world Series used, Swift, Easycleaner, Epson Photo Quicker, Core Design, Art Explosion, Gardens, Namo WebEditor - some of those are available as Mac versions, but a lot of this seems redundant.

IspQ Video Chat 6 - iChat AV, among others.

Dialup networking, Internet connection Wizard, Phone Dialer, Direct Cable Connection, CD Player Interactive CD Sampler, Sound Recorder, Volume Control, Media Player, Internet Tools, Systems Tools, Calculator, Imagingt, Notepad, Paint, Word Pad, Address Book - All in OS X.

Europress- Barleywood garden & design,Medical Library, AA Multimedia, Plantcare encyclopaedia, ACD Systems, Photolightning, Acrobat Reader 5,Garden- Encyclopaedias 1&2, 3D Landscapes, Direct Scan - Again, some of these have OS X programs, some free, but some don't. You may need Virtual PC for some stuff. About $200.

And don't forget, with some programs, if you own the PC version, you can get the Apple upgrade verison. That way you don't have to pay for the full version for software you already own.

AnotherMortal
Jul 23, 2003, 07:54 AM
I switched a year and 2 days ago right before my birthday, and I haven't really looked back. I haven't really been able to "convert" anyone, but I can say I've had less problems with my 12" iBook 600mhz than I have had with my Dell Inspiron 4100. I eventually gave the D(H)ell to my fiance' and still use the iBook.

I switched because I took a new job in a 75/25 mac/pc environment and new jack diddly about macs. So as soon as I scraped funds together, in came the 12" iBook. I do regret being a cheap bastage and not getting the powerbook, but at the time TiBooks 1ghz weren't out yet, and the top of the line was running $3000. So I went for the $1194 iBook and eventually maxed out the RAM.

As for evangelizing, thats a harder sell because my coworkers use both already (we're a mac/pc IT dept) and my classmates at school (InfoSys major) are HARDCORE PC users who bash Apple at the drop of a hat. (Don't dare start an argument over Network Operating Systems, and why Novell really was better that WinNT/2k server "back in the day")

plutnicki
Jul 23, 2003, 08:27 AM
I switched when I saw the Flat Panel iMac for the first time. Preordered it almost right away, to replace my aging, failing, hand built PC system. Never looked back. Switch my father-in-law to a Powerbook 800Mhz, bought myself a new Powerbook 1Ghz. That might be the system that switches my father, who knows...

Once people see how easy to use and how stable the Mac hardware is, it's hard to look at a WinPC again. The only thing that keeps most people back is $$. I have a lot of friends who hate M$ with a passion, but can't convinve themselves to pay a premium over a PC system for a Mac system.

Apple really needs a decently powerful, sub $1000 desktop (i.e. cut the flat panel off the iMac so people can re-use the CRTs, keyboards and mice they already have...

...Jim

hvfsl
Jul 23, 2003, 09:18 AM
I switched in the Dos days before Windows 3.1 because Macs were so much better than PCs back then, also most of the games came on the Mac first and then maybe came to the PC later on. It was also the time when most people hadn't really heard of M$. I miss those days. Too bad Apple's management was not as good as M$.

snahabed
Jul 23, 2003, 09:54 AM
My friends pretty much spout of anti-Mac stuff at me because they know it bothers me :)

But also, a few of them have old (bad) experiences with Macs, and that has stuck with them. I am like, "but they have CHANGED in every single way!" A good friend of mine just started a new job where.... gasp... he is forced to work on a beige Powermac G3 with Mac OS 8... EIGHT. The first day was filled with IMs like "I &$%! HATE MACS!" and I am like dude, that system is analogous to Windows 3.1! People who only remember pre-OS X Macs have bias.

But the most common thing I hear is about how much more expensive Macs are. They don't want to hear about the iApps or other intangible values... they look at sticker price. Of course, I think Macs are very price competitive nowadays... they just don't enter the super-crap ultra-low Walmart $400 POS category.

I have found that the biggest "plus"... the thing that impresses PC users the most... is with respect to peripherals/drivers. For instance, I showed them my new LaCie firewire CD, and all the print and electronic instructions plus CD of drivers/installers for the PC. Then I showed them what I did to get it working... plugged it in and say I havent had to read a manual in years. Gasps, shock, and awe :)

MacBoyX
Jul 23, 2003, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by snahabed
My friends pretty much spout of anti-Mac stuff at me because they know it bothers me :)

But also, a few of them have old (bad) experiences with Macs, and that has stuck with them. I am like, "but they have CHANGED in every single way!" A good friend of mine just started a new job where.... gasp... he is forced to work on a beige Powermac G3 with Mac OS 8... EIGHT. The first day was filled with IMs like "I &$%! HATE MACS!" and I am like dude, that system is analogous to Windows 3.1! People who only remember pre-OS X Macs have bias.

But the most common thing I hear is about how much more expensive Macs are. They don't want to hear about the iApps or other intangible values... they look at sticker price. Of course, I think Macs are very price competitive nowadays... they just don't enter the super-crap ultra-low Walmart $400 POS category.

I have found that the biggest "plus"... the thing that impresses PC users the most... is with respect to peripherals/drivers. For instance, I showed them my new LaCie firewire CD, and all the print and electronic instructions plus CD of drivers/installers for the PC. Then I showed them what I did to get it working... plugged it in and say I havent had to read a manual in years. Gasps, shock, and awe :)

I have a co worker who constantly compares Windows XP to System7.

I am like dude...that was 1991...ummm Windows 3.0 anyone?

I hate people like that if I mentioned how crappy even Windows Me is they'd be all over my case!

MacBoyX

CubeHacker
Jul 23, 2003, 10:43 AM
But the most common thing I hear is about how much more expensive Macs are. They don't want to hear about the iApps or other intangible values... they look at sticker price. Of course, I think Macs are very price competitive nowadays... they just don't enter the super-crap ultra-low Walmart $400 POS category.

I would have no problem paying the premium price of a Mac *IF* the mac offered more power than a similarly priced PC. But the fact of the matter is, for the price of a 17" iMac, I can get a top-of-the-line PC /w monitor which would be at LEAST 3x as fast as the iMac, lasting me a lot longer.

I am extremly eager to switch, but until Apple catches up in speed, i will continue to wait.

AnotherMortal
Jul 23, 2003, 10:54 AM
I would have no problem paying the premium price of a Mac *IF* the mac offered more power than a similarly priced PC. But the fact of the matter is, for the price of a 17" iMac, I can get a top-of-the-line PC /w monitor which would be at LEAST 3x as fast as the iMac, lasting me a lot longer.



Yeah, it might be 3x as fast, but that just means it'll reboot faster after it blue screens :)

The "speed" issue as I have experienced it is GUI, and not overall machine speed, if that makes sense. The machine is fast, the GUI is a little slow. I'm used to the click, click click. Instant popup of the PC, not so on the mac (well, on my iBook for *sure*) things are a tad slower than that. But, YMMV.

rt_brained
Jul 23, 2003, 11:11 AM
I've switched a couple and then helped launch a few other switchers through the sale of my used machines.

First, my girlfriend received a Wintel computer from her family for Xmas. We immediately returned it to Best Buy and upgraded her to a rev. B iMac. She's now on her third machine, a 1 GHz Powerbook.

We convinced her parents to buy her rev. B. They loved it and bought a 17" flatscreeen iMac within a year and promptly ditched their Gateway.

Years ago, I sold my 7200/75 to a switcher and my year-old 12" iBook, also just went to a switcher.

My girfriend sold her year-old 12" iBook to a friend from work...also a switcher...So I kinda get half credit for that one too.

CubeHacker
Jul 23, 2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by AnotherMortal
Yeah, it might be 3x as fast, but that just means it'll reboot faster after it blue screens :)

The "speed" issue as I have experienced it is GUI, and not overall machine speed, if that makes sense. The machine is fast, the GUI is a little slow. I'm used to the click, click click. Instant popup of the PC, not so on the mac (well, on my iBook for *sure*) things are a tad slower than that. But, YMMV.

The thing is, i've have not had a blue screen of death on any of my PC's since Windows 98. I've been running XP for 1.5 years now (on the same install!!) and i've yet to have it crash on me or give me a blue screen.

But i'm not talking about GUI speed performance. I'm talking about overall performance. The 1ghz iMac in my local Apple store wasn't able to play Warcraft3 at an acceptable level, so I don't even want to think about how it runs something modern like UT2k3. Any future games like DOOM3 are completly out of the question. So in other words, i'd be paying a premium price for a computer that can't even play games released a year ago at full speed. Thats my main issue with the current Macs. Hopefully Apple will remedy this soon.

MacBoyX
Jul 23, 2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by DOACleric
The thing is, i've have not had a blue screen of death on any of my PC's since Windows 98. I've been running XP for 1.5 years now (on the same install!!) and i've yet to have it crash on me or give me a blue screen.

But i'm not talking about GUI speed performance. I'm talking about overall performance. The 1ghz iMac in my local Apple store wasn't able to play Warcraft3 at an acceptable level, so I don't even want to think about how it runs something modern like UT2k3. Any future games like DOOM3 are completly out of the question. So in other words, i'd be paying a premium price for a computer that can't even play games released a year ago at full speed. Thats my main issue with the current Macs. Hopefully Apple will remedy this soon.

Why on earth would you read a Mac Rumor board, and then Mac Bash? I am certain that at least HALF of the people on this board don't feel there Mac is any slower than your PC and I am sure PLENTY are playing WarCraft3 and UT2K3 on their 1GHz iMacs.

I am glad you haven't had any blue screens on your Windows XP system (it only took Microsoft five tries to get it right (95, 98, 98SE, Me, 2000).

All I can say is if you're all about the speed of the machine and not about the usability, stability, and function of the OS, then stick with Microsoft, owning a Mac is about so much more than Ghz.

MacBoyX

CubeHacker
Jul 23, 2003, 11:55 AM
I'm not trying to bash Macs. I understand their strengths, as well as their weaknesses. And currently, one of their main weaknesses is speed. I know its not Apples fault, but you have to admit, Mac users miss the days when their computers were faster than PC's. With the arrival of the G5 and Apples partnership with IBM, that will hopefully happen again, but it will take time.

And I visit these Mac forums because I like to learn and understand other computers/operating systems. And one day I hope to switch over too!

rueyeet
Jul 23, 2003, 12:20 PM
It's currently pretty well understood that if you are primarily a PC gamer, you are indeed better off with a Wintel PC.

I do agree that Win 2K Pro is pretty much as stable as Jaguar, but the apps--noticeably, Outlook--will bog it down at strange and frustrating points. My TiBook is only the slightest shade less responsive, in my perception, and we're talking a 1.8 GHz P4 against a 667 MHz G4. I haven't even upped the Ti's memory. I don't think the speed difference is really as much as the Wintel people make it out to be, but hey, that's just me.

The G5 might change that when it's available though...you might not have too long to wait. When it's on the shelves, head down to your nearest Apple Store or reseller, and find out! :)

snahabed
Jul 23, 2003, 04:18 PM
Yeah just to add:

If you are all about gaming on a PC, stick with Windows.

And it is true, Windows XP does not blue screen like older versions of Windows. But I think you're missing the bigger stuff... The viruses, the copy protection, the digital rights managment, the activation codes, the drivers/installing nightmares, and who knows what other future "goodies" they have in store. If a G4 iMac is a little bit slower (and I think it is perfectly fast for virtually anything), then its benefits in all those areas are surely enough to make up for it in my opinion.

Plus, I bet Panther will add GUI snappiness to G4s. That said, I think iMacs are a bit overpriced, but they arent really my market anyway. If I want a great Mac, I got powerbook/powermac G5. If i want a cheap mac, I go iBook/eMac. The iMac ... meh.

So I would wait for Panther and potential iMac updates (it HAS been a while... even if G5's arent coming soon, other parts surely are due for updating).

jbomber
Jul 23, 2003, 05:25 PM
I bought a bright new shiny titanium laptop and brought it to work with me. slowly the techies and other designers started peeking into my cube to check it out. within a month, i had spread the 'Gospel according to Mac' to 8 other employees, all who went out and bought 12" or 15" pbooks. Honestly i should be on commission. How about it Apple?

Schiffi
Jul 23, 2003, 07:45 PM
Well, unfortuantly my TiBook is being AppleCared and I'm in no position to try and switch someone. There was an apparent hold and they had to contact the AppleGenius who sent it to make sure I didn't sabatoge it. Luckily he was on my side and I'm awaiting for the Repair Status page to update beyound the "hold" status, cause I'm really missing it!

The facts about the Mac that I like the most are the multitasking, no registry, and better driver support. In fact the only drivers I had to use were for my scanner/printer combo and my Wacom. I also enjoy how well OSX organizes it's files. XP sorta just throughs everything together (i.e. programs always change something in the system).

Since using XP since my mac has been in service I have encountered the way in which MS has hidden the service pack part. It downloads the updates in the background! Not only is that annoying but it also slows down your internet bandwidth.

billyboy
Jul 23, 2003, 08:41 PM
So how did you switchers with a fair amount of PC software find the switch financially and practically to Mac software? There is a great list above with assorted prices to convert to Mac and it runs into several hundred dollars over and above the cost of the new Mac hardware.

SLJ
Jul 23, 2003, 09:33 PM
Well, I swtiched to Mac world for 3 days only... this is my third day. Anyway, I must admit that I am happy with the OS plus the overall system. I brought a 12" Powerbook with some expectation... So far, I am still trying to learn how to do things... "Anyone want to tell me how to change between programs, if I am using full screen mode. I know windows is "Alt+Tab" but I have no idea what OSX is..."

As with mac software, i being doing lots of web searching and reading to see what is best software to use as well. So far FTP & CDR burning software is still a big confusoin for me... Anything as good as nero for OSX?

Anyway, I enjoy my new Powerbook but I need lots of help as well... Feel free to give me advise guy...

LethalWolfe
Jul 23, 2003, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by SLJ
Well, I swtiched to Mac world for 3 days only... this is my third day. Anyway, I must admit that I am happy with the OS plus the overall system. I brought a 12" Powerbook with some expectation... So far, I am still trying to learn how to do things... "Anyone want to tell me how to change between programs, if I am using full screen mode. I know windows is "Alt+Tab" but I have no idea what OSX is..."

As with mac software, i being doing lots of web searching and reading to see what is best software to use as well. So far FTP & CDR burning software is still a big confusoin for me... Anything as good as nero for OSX?

Anyway, I enjoy my new Powerbook but I need lots of help as well... Feel free to give me advise guy...

Command+Tab switches thru the running programs. If you just need basic CD burning that can be done w/Finder. For more advanced you can buy Toast or for even more options you can spring for Toast w/Jam.


Lethal

SLJ
Jul 23, 2003, 09:56 PM
Thank for a quick reply... anychance you can teach me how to uninstall application as well? Or is it as simple as just deleting the folder and that's it? I assume OSX does not have a registry like Windows?

eromitlab
Jul 23, 2003, 10:08 PM
the first computer I used was a Mac... my grandma's Mac 512K in 1985 was completely bad@ss, along with the imagewriter printer... such a great machine. I used PC's for the intervening years up 'til 1998 when I bought a clone... and I was hooked in again. 1999 saw me buying an iMac and I never went back to a PC again. Two iBooks and a 17" FP later, I'm glad I switched. Everything my PC-abusing friends can do, I can do better, faster and easier... the last computer I'll ever use is... a Mac.

Sabenth
Jul 24, 2003, 01:53 AM
I switched a month and a half ago to an apple mac g3 i mac blue berry coloured... And i love it. I switched because i had nothing but problems with my pc since though i have found the fault a hard drive full of bad sectors oh well but i am using the mac more than the pc simply becaue its easier to use. and the Mac is running Jag a term i had no idea till 2 weeks before i bought it....

Do i miss anything i missed the 2 button scroll wheel so i went and bought one i also got a load of software with my purches so i didnt loose much .. i gained more than anything... fantastic..

Sabenth

AnotherMortal
Jul 24, 2003, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by SLJ
Thank for a quick reply... anychance you can teach me how to uninstall application as well? Or is it as simple as just deleting the folder and that's it? I assume OSX does not have a registry like Windows?

I've found that just dragging the application and dropping it in the trash works well for "uninstalling" since the "application" is really a folder with a pretty icon attached to it. You delete about 99% of the applications files, and the one file you miss is the .plist file, which basically is a preference settings file.

SLJ
Jul 24, 2003, 07:11 AM
I just want to make sure because Windows is really sad... even after uninstalling the software, the registry is never clean properly therefore, Windows will get slower and slower... so far, my mac experience is great but I still have a few questions...

the "command + tab" does not work when I am playing warcraft III , I want to switch while I pause the game... but does not seen to be able to function like Windows.

2nd. how can I change the way the program open, someone gave me the command "+ C" for openning Warcraft III in a window instead of full screen, but I dont know how to add a command... any more advice?