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MacRumors
Jul 17, 2007, 08:28 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Dailytech.com claims (http://www.dailytech.com/Mobile+Intel+Penryn+Core+2+Duos+Revealed/article8067.htm) to have more leaked information -- this time on Intel's upcoming Penryn-based Core 2 Duo Processors which are due in Q1 2008.

The upcoming Core 2 Duo processors will continue to use the 800MHz FSB ranging from 2.1GHz to 2.6GHz with up to 6MB of L2 Cache on the top end models. Meanwhile a Core 2 Extreme revision will top out at 2.8 GHz. Penryn is expected to bring a number of enhancements (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/) and performance enhancements (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/).

The Santa Rosa spec will be revised to support the Penryn-based mobile Core 2 Duo processors which are due in Q1'08. After this release , Intel plans on overhauling their mobile platform in Q2'2008 with the "Montevina" revision.

Apple recently took advantage (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/06/05/apple-releases-new-macbook-pros-with-santa-rosa/) of the Santa Rosa chipset in new MacBook Pros released in June 2007. Apple would be expected to take advantage of the upcoming chipsets around their release in Q1 2008. In the meanwhile, Apple is expected (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/10/ultra-thin-and-ultra-light-mac-notebook-in-2007/) to release a Ultra-thin version of the MacBook Pro later this year.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/17/intels-upcoming-penryn-core-2-duo-processors/)



Phormic
Jul 17, 2007, 08:36 PM
So is anybody still missing "the good 'ol days" with Motorola processor updates progressing at an almost glacial rate?

TranceClubMusic
Jul 17, 2007, 08:42 PM
So is anybody still missing "the good 'ol days" with Motorola processor updates progressing at an almost glacial rate?

Honestly, all this stuff is giving me a big headache. The more you try to keep up with this chip news the less you want to purchase anything. I'm going to now ignore it all & unless its about a major redesign in a product (like the talk about the new aluminum iMacs) I'm just gonna buy what I need when I need it and move on with life.

"posted via iPhone"

creator2456
Jul 17, 2007, 09:03 PM
all this stuff is giving me a big headache

Ditto...all this chip rumor can do for most people is confuse them and push them away from making a purchase.

Gymnut
Jul 17, 2007, 09:04 PM
So is anybody still missing "the good 'ol days" with Motorola processor updates progressing at an almost glacial rate?

Well, I guess they can't please everybody...;)

AidenShaw
Jul 17, 2007, 09:16 PM
I'm just gonna buy what I need when I need it

Best advise ever - but be sure to add that "what I need" means just that.

Buying "expansion" for the future usually means that you pay more now - and when the future comes you'd rather get something new and better rather than just adding to the old box.

One probable exception, though, is memory. If you buy a box with some empty RAM slots or disk bays, you'll probably fill those....

samh004
Jul 17, 2007, 09:35 PM
The upcoming Core 2 Duo processors will continue to use the 800MHz FSB ranging from 2.1GHz to 2.6GHz with up to 6MB of L2 Cache on the top end models. Meanwhile a Core 2 Extreme revision will top out at 2.8 GHz.

So what will the extra 2MB of L2 Cache give me ?

The Santa Rosa spec will be revised to support the Penryn-based mobile Core 2 Duo processors which are due in Q1'08. After this release , Intel plans on overhauling their mobile platform in Q2'2008 with the "Montevina" revision.

More importantly, what will the Montevina revision bring me that is better than Santa Rosa ? Will I finally be able to expand my RAM to 16GB in my MBP ? ;)

pocketrockets
Jul 17, 2007, 09:36 PM
Happy iCal Day!!!!!!!!!!!!

samh004
Jul 17, 2007, 09:38 PM
Happy iCal Day!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was yesterday for me...

Dustman
Jul 17, 2007, 09:46 PM
More importantly, what will the Montevina revision bring me that is better than Santa Rosa ? Will I finally be able to expand my RAM to 16GB in my MBP ? ;)

Sounds like garbage. Everyone here knows you need ATLEAST a 16 core core processor and 1 TB of ram to run even the most basic features of OS X..

DVNIEL
Jul 17, 2007, 10:20 PM
Ahhh 1st Quarter of 2008, I knew Penryn would land around my birthday=). I've never put a laptop to work as much as I have my current C2D MBP. I'll give this to my sister and enjoy the new benefits of the Santa Rosa and whatever is to come with Penryn.

Let the wait begin!

Eidorian
Jul 17, 2007, 10:23 PM
I'm still hoping for a rushed release. Intel has had samples for months as it is.

spiffyfitz
Jul 17, 2007, 10:26 PM
That's fine and dandy and all, but I'm still waiting for a Mac Pro revision, and have been all year. I signed up for a student developer package with the intention of getting a decent discount off of a Mac Pro... unfortunately, Apple is taking their sweet time and screwing everybody like me who wants a top-end system but will not stand for a radeon 1900.

PROTIP: Adding an expensive-as-hell option for an 8-core system is not a revision, Apple... update that system now! :mad:

/rant

twoodcc
Jul 17, 2007, 10:40 PM
good news . looking forward to seeing these in apple computers

offwidafairies
Jul 17, 2007, 10:48 PM
The more you try to keep up with this chip news the less you want to purchase anything.



I belong in that club. I'm still waiting for the best MBP ever... I've been waiting since Dec 2006 and still can't decide whether to wait for the NEXT BIG THING...:confused:

Starship77
Jul 17, 2007, 11:01 PM
PROTIP: Adding an expensive-as-hell option for an 8-core system is not a revision, Apple... update that system now! :mad:



I don't think they really need to update the system, just cut the prices a little bit... The machine is at the top of today's technology. There's not so many 3.0GHz Dual QUAD-Core Xeons around from other manufacturers...

donlphi
Jul 17, 2007, 11:22 PM
So are we or aren't we getting Flash support on our iPHONES?

Are we really concerned about the next processor for our laptops? It's like watching grass grow. Every day seems a little bigger, but it's really just about the same.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :rolleyes:

ajhill
Jul 18, 2007, 12:07 AM
Intel said today that the sold a larger number of chips at a lower margin. I wish Apple would pass along some of of those savings along to us, their customers! I can remember when the last price cut was on a Mac. Sure they are improving speed little by little, but it doesn't seem as though the prices are ever going to come down. :(

I guess that's the "price" we have to pay given the Mac new found popularity. My buddy had to wait 2 weeks for his new MacBook Pro to come back into stock.

Hey Apple, if Intel says that they are selling chips at a lower rate to compete with AMD, how about passing the savings on to us in the form of lower prices?

daneoni
Jul 18, 2007, 12:13 AM
So what will the extra 2MB of L2 Cache give me ?


More importantly, what will the Montevina revision bring me that is better than Santa Rosa ? Will I finally be able to expand my RAM to 16GB in my MBP ? ;)

Probably not but you do get a 1,07 GHz FSB (1067 Mhz?), 800 MHz DDR3 support as well as WiMax/3G (HSDPA) amongst others

MacinDoc
Jul 18, 2007, 12:18 AM
Best advise ever - but be sure to add that "what I need" means just that.

Buying "expansion" for the future usually means that you pay more now - and when the future comes you'd rather get something new and better rather than just adding to the old box.

One probable exception, though, is memory. If you buy a box with some empty RAM slots or disk bays, you'll probably fill those....
That almost sounds like an endorsement of the all-in-one form factor - you're slipping, Aiden! So, if the new iMac had 4 RAM slots and a user-serviceable HD bay, would you recommend it (as a form factor)?

MidiMonk
Jul 18, 2007, 01:00 AM
I am more than happy with my SR MBP for the next few years.New processors and advancements are a fact of life, as it stands this may be my last Apple product if their focus is heading further into gadgetry.

puuukeey
Jul 18, 2007, 01:29 AM
please help me understand.

Why do faster processors matter when more demanding applications distribute work between many computers?

theheyes
Jul 18, 2007, 01:38 AM
please help me understand.

Why do faster processors matter when more demanding applications distribute work between many computers?

If by "computers" you mean cores, not all applications can be. The vast majority of programs can but in some cases its not that simple. Also, multiple cores are a relatively new thing so not all programs are coded to utilize them and wont be for a while.

As an aside, though, a processor can never be fast enough. ;)

zap2
Jul 18, 2007, 01:47 AM
Alright...hopefully Apple will jump on the band wagon, and through them in some Macs in time for MacWorld '08!

sportsnut
Jul 18, 2007, 03:32 AM
Ditto...all this chip rumor can do for most people is confuse them and push them away from making a purchase.


:) Ding Ding Ding we have a winner!
:mad: Now I will have to suffer through endless new threads from those who have already been posting away about delaying a purchase 'waiting for Leopard' for the last 6 months start new threads speculating that 'Apple' should have these chips in computers in time for Christmas :rolleyes:

Mac.Jnr
Jul 18, 2007, 04:27 AM
Probably not but you do get a 1,07 GHz FSB (1067 Mhz?), 800 MHz DDR3 support as well as WiMax/3G (HSDPA) amongst others

Isn't it 800mhz FSB for mobile processors and 1333 FSB for desktop processors? DDR3 is way over 800mhz more like 1333+fsb.

daneoni
Jul 18, 2007, 05:41 AM
Isn't it 800mhz FSB for mobile processors and 1333 FSB for desktop processors? DDR3 is way over 800mhz more like 1333+fsb.

Technically yes but i get the feeling what you're talking about is already happening now. If i can assume you're mixing up things up. We have 1333MHz FSB in Desktops (Mac Pro?) an 800MHz FSB in Notebooks (SR MBP).

DDR3 clockrates will range from 800-1600MHz compared to the 400-1066MHz of DDR2. Montevina supports the 800 clock and will increase the centrino "notebook" FSB to 1067MHz. Hoever there are no chips on the horizon to support anything above 800MHz for now.

Look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino), here (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/10/11/intel_centrino_roadmap/) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM) for more info

AidenShaw
Jul 18, 2007, 06:38 AM
That almost sounds like an endorsement of the all-in-one form factor - you're slipping, Aiden! So, if the new iMac had 4 RAM slots and a user-serviceable HD bay, would you recommend it (as a form factor)?

Well, if...

Keep the notebook chips in the iMac (for heat reasons), and put quads and some modest expandability (2 or 3 hard drives, 2nd optical, standard x16 PCIe graphics slot and additional x4 (in x8) PCIe slot) in a minitower.

...the iMac has 3 hard drive slots (2 for 2.5" drives, one for a either a 2.5" or 5.25" drive), a user replaceable x16 PCIe full height graphics card, a quad Kentsfield, and a spare PCIe slot for an ATSC video tuner and they get rid of the chin -- then I'd definitely soften my tone on all-in-ones. ;)

Actually, what I was trying to say is that buying "expandability" to future-proof yourself for 3 years down the road isn't such a wise investment most of the time. Three years from now, the available systems will have features that you can't imagine now - and it may be better (or at least more fun) to replace rather than add stuff to the old one.

On the other hand, getting expandability so that the initial purchase meets all your needs is good - most "expansion" is done at the BTO time, not down the road. If people do upgrade, most of the time it's adding a hard drive or more memory.

Some issues that I have with the iMac/all-in-one are:

the idea that you may have to throw away a good computer because the screen died, or a good screen because the computer died or you want something faster
the inherent bundling - if you want a larger monitor, you have to buy a faster CPU and a larger disk - whether you want them or not
the "elegant mess" - people say that the iMac is elegant, but most of the time in real life an iMac is surrounded by a rat's nest of 1394 and USB cables leading to all those things that should have fit inside the box
I prefer to have a mini-tower or micro-tower on the floor, and a more trim LCD on the desk (a quiet fan under the desk is quieter than a quiet fan up by your ears)
did I mention the chin?


So yes, an iMac would be great if it were expandable (including having a real choice of monitor). :rolleyes:

nja247
Jul 18, 2007, 07:14 AM
I'm still hoping for a rushed release. Intel has had samples for months as it is.

Unfortunately there's no need as Intel is currently on top of the game with AMD barely able to offer chips with similar performance.

Thomas2006
Jul 18, 2007, 07:16 AM
More importantly, what will the Montevina revision bring me that is better than Santa Rosa ? Will I finally be able to expand my RAM to 16GB in my MBP ? ;)
I do not know about the MBP but the MB will get much better graphics. Yes, dedicated video is better, but that is not going to happen anytime soon so we will just have to not go there.

nja247
Jul 18, 2007, 07:16 AM
Intel said today that the sold a larger number of chips at a lower margin. I wish Apple would pass along some of of those savings along to us, their customers! I can remember when the last price cut was on a Mac. Sure they are improving speed little by little, but it doesn't seem as though the prices are ever going to come down. :(

I guess that's the "price" we have to pay given the Mac new found popularity. My buddy had to wait 2 weeks for his new MacBook Pro to come back into stock.

Hey Apple, if Intel says that they are selling chips at a lower rate to compete with AMD, how about passing the savings on to us in the form of lower prices?

I recently priced out 13.3" Dell's and Sony's and found Apple's MacBook to be the best priced machine of the lot (though Sony and Dell did offer a dedicated video option). However comparing the MacBook Pro was a different story; it could definitely use a price drop.

jeremyrader
Jul 18, 2007, 07:37 AM
Just to clarify the original post:

- Santa Rosa is not a chipset, it is a platform - specifically an Intel Centrino Duo processor technology (mobile) platform.

- Santa Rosa uses a Core 2 Duo processor (Merom) running 1.3-2.4 GHz with 2-4 MB L2 cache, and the 965 Express GM or PM chipset (Crestline).

- Santa Rosa Professional is technically an Intel Centrino Pro processor technology platform. It only uses the T7700 2.4 GHz 4MB processor (Merom), same one you can get with the regular Santa Rosa platform, and the same Crestline chipset.

- the Santa Rosa refresh is considered an Intel Centrino Pro platform and will use the Penryn processor and Crestline chipset.

- the Montevina platform (also Pro) will use the Penryn processor (updated with a 6 MB cache) and the Cantiga chipset. Currently slated for 2nd half 2008.

- no quad core mobile processor have been announced.

And that's just the mobile stuff, not including the ultramobile PC stuff from Intel...

Regarding caches - caches have been doing their jobs effectively for three decades (IBM 360/85). A cache’s mission is to bridge the gap between the fast CPU and the slow main memory. Cache is small but fast and can feed a data-hungry CPU at its demanded speed.

failsafe1
Jul 18, 2007, 08:34 AM
Honestly, all this stuff is giving me a big headache. The more you try to keep up with this chip news the less you want to purchase anything. I'm going to now ignore it all & unless its about a major redesign in a product (like the talk about the new aluminum iMacs) I'm just gonna buy what I need when I need it and move on with life.

"posted via iPhone"

Man ain't it the truth. But the idea about buy when you need it is still the only way to go. I could see holding out for a major change like blu-ray or something really new but chip sets? Holding out for the next big chip only leads to headaches.

ajhill
Jul 18, 2007, 09:08 AM
I was at my local Apple Store yesterday. Packed was the word that came to mind. The MacBook Pros were definitely the hot product. Just a quick look around saw three people walking out with them. Just then a cart came out of the back room with four more (corporate purchase?). Notebooks are definitely selling well.

The newer (smaller) chips should be a welcome advantage. With cooler temperatures and better battery life.

If would prefer to see prices come down a bit on the Macbooks. With Intel locked into a price war with AMD shouldn't we see lower prices on Macbook Pros?

fsckus
Jul 18, 2007, 09:17 AM
I think it's far more likely apple will speed bump macbookpros slightly, but stay away from any major revision until montevina

guzhogi
Jul 18, 2007, 10:40 AM
which are due in Q1'08. After this release, Intel plans on overhauling their mobile platform in Q2'2008 with the "Montevina" revision.

Releasing an update in Q1 and then doing another ~3 months later? Can they wait a while and let us catch our breath first? I'm sure most people belong in 1 of 2 groups: (1) those people who say procs should be updated very often (every week or something) or (2) those who think procs should be updated less frequently. I personally lean towards the latter. Let us enjoy the top of the line for a few months and when you do update, it's a big one. Remember the last MacBook update and how boring it was?

cliffjumper68
Jul 18, 2007, 10:45 AM
Nice to have regular speed updates now with Intel driving chip technology.

skellener
Jul 18, 2007, 11:07 AM
All the chip updates in the world won't matter until Apple puts them inside our Macs. Let's hopefully see them soon!

SuperCompu2
Jul 18, 2007, 11:20 AM
please help me understand.

Why do faster processors matter when more demanding applications distribute work between many computers?

I don't think he meant spread between cores, but rather 'nodes' for the more intense graphical and scientific programs. I know a friend of mine did some video game design, and he had a non-networked workstation and a node-linked workstation: the node-networked computer rendered about 25x faster than the single workstation (that's amazing in terms of 3D render for Video Games)

ClimbingTheLog
Jul 18, 2007, 11:44 AM
I belong in that club. I'm still waiting for the best MBP ever... I've been waiting since Dec 2006 and still can't decide whether to wait for the NEXT BIG THING...:confused:

The next big thing is Montevina-based laptops. The current generation runs from October 2006 to March 2008 (Santa Rosa turned out to be nothing big - they didn't really use Robson). The LED-based model is probably the best you're going to see for the next 9 months.

But if you're equivocal on the issue that probably means you don't really need a new machine (or you're just a masochist and love your Powerbook 5300). If you get a current MBP I guarantee you'll love it! (and eBay is for upgrades)

spawn135
Jul 18, 2007, 11:57 AM
Oh wait. After Penryn, there is Nehalem:

Penryn will be the last Intel processor based on the Core Microarchitecture. The successor to the Core Microarchitecture will be the Nehalem core.(1)

Nehalem is a codename for both, a processor microarchitecture and a processor. The microarchitecture is being developed by Intel and is the planned successor to the Core microarchitecture. The processor is expected to debut the microarchitecture. (2)


So what does that mean? Intel is going to abandon Core and use a new microarchitecture?

(1) http://guides.macrumors.com/Penryn
(2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehalem_%28CPU_architecture%29

Eidorian
Jul 18, 2007, 12:23 PM
So what does that mean? Intel is going to abandon Core and use a new microarchitecture?Yes it does mean that.

Shagrat
Jul 18, 2007, 12:25 PM
:) Ding Ding Ding we have a winner!
:mad: Now I will have to suffer through endless new threads from those who have already been posting away about delaying a purchase 'waiting for Leopard' for the last 6 months start new threads speculating that 'Apple' should have these chips in computers in time for Christmas :rolleyes:

Well I am waiting for Penryn based Macs, so I will have to wait 'til then for a new Mac...
er...No, I'll wait for the Nehalem based Macs as I don't want to buy something which will be out of date two weeks after I buy it....er...

It'll be Westmere for me...

er...Sorry, Sandybridge is the one...

Oh, 2010 'til it comes out...

Oh well, got to have the latest processor, me!

heisetax
Jul 18, 2007, 12:27 PM
That's fine and dandy and all, but I'm still waiting for a Mac Pro revision, and have been all year. I signed up for a student developer package with the intention of getting a decent discount off of a Mac Pro... unfortunately, Apple is taking their sweet time and screwing everybody like me who wants a top-end system but will not stand for a radeon 1900.

PROTIP: Adding an expensive-as-hell option for an 8-core system is not a revision, Apple... update that system now! :mad:

/rant



What can they update. The only change in this area has been the Quad Core. There still is no speed increases. The processors have come down in price a couple of times or so. Apple never lowers the price of a current system. I expect no new Intel Mac Pro until the new processors come out. My dual dual 3 GHz is still priced the same. The only difference now is that I can add 32 GB of memory to it rather than the 16 GB wen it was new.

Bill the TaxMan

heisetax
Jul 18, 2007, 12:34 PM
I am more than happy with my SR MBP for the next few years.New processors and advancements are a fact of life, as it stands this may be my last Apple product if their focus is heading further into gadgetry.



You say gadgetry, I say trinkets, but the meaning is the same. The Mac iss almost the forgotten item. Yearly revisions for most items, just like when we had the PPC processors. No price decreases for us, just lower costs for Apple to allow them to develope the next Apple Gadget.

Bill the TaxMan

spawn135
Jul 18, 2007, 12:46 PM
Yes it does mean that.

That's just crazy. Years ago, it was pentium I, II, III, IV

Now, it's Core, Core 2

And we will be forced to abandon the Core technology after only like 4 years? Software and game developers haven't even started to program their applications to take advantage of these multi-cores, and soon it's gonna be history.

Like i said, that's just crazy.

shawnce
Jul 18, 2007, 01:24 PM
That's just crazy. Years ago, it was pentium I, II, III, IV

Now, it's Core, Core 2

And we will be forced to abandon the Core technology after only like 4 years? Software and game developers haven't even started to program their applications to take advantage of these multi-cores, and soon it's gonna be history.

Like i said, that's just crazy.

They are using the existing architecture (Core 2) as a starting point an enhancing/reworking it to better leverage the 45nm process, etc. They aren't starting from scratch. They will also be multicore chips like we have with Core 2 today.

Intel talked about a "tick-tock" strategy (only a roughly 2 year cycle)... the "tick" is a change of process node (e.g. 65nm to 45nm) using an existing / established microarchitecture slightly tuned for the new process node and for the new 45nm process node that is Penryn (Conroe / Core 2 based microarchitecture). The "tock" is a "new" microarchitecture designed for the now mainstream process node (e.g. 45nm in 2008) and for the 45nm node that is Nehalem.

Note again that "new" doesn't mean they start from scratch but that they do a revaluation of their existing microarchitecture to see how it can be reworked to better leverage a process node, the current market needs, and the current state of the art.

spawn135
Jul 18, 2007, 01:34 PM
They are using the existing architecture (Core 2) as a starting point an enhancing/reworking it to better leverage the 45nm process, etc. They aren't starting from scratch. They will also be multicore chips like we have with Core 2 today.

Intel talked about a "tick-tock" strategy (only a roughly 2 year cycle)... the "tick" is a change of process node (e.g. 65nm to 45nm) using an existing / established microarchitecture slightly tuned for the new process node and for the new 45nm process node that is Penryn (Conroe / Core 2 based microarchitecture). The "tock" is a "new" microarchitecture designed for the now mainstream process node (e.g. 45nm in 2008) and for the 45nm node that is Nehalem.

Note again that "new" doesn't mean they start from scratch but that they do a revaluation of their existing microarchitecture to see how it can be reworked to better leverage a process node, the current market needs, and the current state of the art.

I wonder what it's going to be called. Probably not Core 3, or will it be?

iQuit
Jul 18, 2007, 01:47 PM
Dies are shrinking, and shrinking, and shrinking, until the point to where we will have tiny chips embedded in every human's body.

I will be one of the fortunate ones to make it to heaven. :)

iQuit
Jul 18, 2007, 01:49 PM
I am still very happy with my 2.0 CD MBP w/ 2GB. It's very snappy for any task I throw at it.


(P.S. Don't geek rant on how SR and the Octogan can video encode faster blah blah blah)


I'm satisfied, for now. :)

morespce54
Jul 18, 2007, 01:54 PM
If would prefer to see prices come down a bit on the Macbooks. With Intel locked into a price war with AMD shouldn't we see lower prices on Macbook Pros?

that would make sense... ;)
but then, when was the last time you saw Apple lower prices on their computers? :confused:

morespce54
Jul 18, 2007, 01:59 PM
Well I am waiting for Penryn based Macs, so I will have to wait 'til then for a new Mac...
er...No, I'll wait for the Nehalem based Macs as I don't want to buy something which will be out of date two weeks after I buy it....er...

It'll be Westmere for me...

er...Sorry, Sandybridge is the one...

Oh, 2010 'til it comes out...

Oh well, got to have the latest processor, me!

LOL!!! ;)

guzhogi
Jul 18, 2007, 02:33 PM
I just hope Apple updates its computers & software soon. Only the MacBooks & MacBook Pros were updated fairly recently (and the MacBook update was awful). We really need to see redesigned iMacs & Mac Pros. Both could use a major design overhaul. Apple Cinema Displays could use an update, too. I remember a thread a while ago w/ a mock-up of what a new iMac would look like. Kinda like a giant iPhone. Black rectangle w/ rounded corners w/ silver outline and speakers on either side. I liked that. Add an iSight, couple of USB 2 & Firewire 400 & 800 ports. Awesome! The displays really need to up the resolution. The current 17" MBP has a higher resolution than the current 20" ACD. Here's what I'd like to see in an iMac:
-No chin
-User upgradeable hard drive, CPU & graphics
-Blu-Ray/HD-DVD BTO option

Mac Pro:
-SLI/CrossFire graphics option (w/ 2 x16 PCIe ports, not 2 x8 used as 1 x16)
-More optical drive bays
-Blu-Ray/HD-DVD BTO option

I'd also like to see an upgraded xServe & xServe RAID. The RAID really needs to upgrade to SATA and/or SAS. iLife & iWork also need to be updated, but I see those as needing Leopard. I also hope the next version of the Mac OS (10.6? 11?) drops PowerPC support and go Intel all the way (preferably even drop original Core Duo & Solo procs). The PowerPC Macs are getting old & slow. Plus, Mac OS X (or whatever it'll be called) will become a lot more efficient & faster once we go to a single platform.

I remember hearing about possibly going to carbon nanotubes for use in transistors. Procs would be a lot faster, cooler & power efficient if we used those. According to Wikipedia, carbon nanotube based procs can get up to 100s of GHz. :D

heisetax
Jul 18, 2007, 02:48 PM
Nice to have regular speed updates now with Intel driving chip technology.


Many of the Macs have stayed on a 8 - 12 month updates. Isn't that about the same speed as before. The Intel Mac is the same as it has been since it shipped last Aug. Mine came on my wife's birthday in early Sep. There is nothing to update it to other that using more quad-core processors. Intel hasn't had any speed increases or platform changes yet. It culd easily go well over a year without an update. With no price changes for the existing Intel Mac Pros, the quad=core model didn't replace it just expanded the choices. For that reason I agree with those that say that the Intel Mac Pro has not been updated.

I like mine as it runs just as fast today as it did last Sep. In some ways faster as it now has 13 GB of memory, 2 750 GB Seagate hard drives for data storage & backup system files, 2 WD 150 GB RAPTOR DRIVES USED AS A RAID 0 Volume. Using 4 displays with an ATI X1900 & a purchase of someone that didn't wait for the ATI board, I added his Nvidia board for half of Apple's price.

Back when I sold computers the Windows arena were updated every 3 months & the Macs were updated every 6 months. Now Apples are going 8-12+ months before being updated. Is this slow down more the sign of a mature market rather than the manufacturer of the cpu?

Bill the TaxMan

shawnce
Jul 18, 2007, 02:57 PM
I wonder what it's going to be called. Probably not Core 3, or will it be?

Core 3 would make the most sense given current naming scheme but who knows at this point...

MidiMonk
Jul 18, 2007, 03:16 PM
Core 3 would make the most sense given current naming scheme but who knows at this point...

How about Triad Core:apple:

tristan
Jul 18, 2007, 03:26 PM
iQuit: I have the same system, a CD MBP. Never seems slow to me unless I run some app with a memory leak and it pegs the two CPUs. Yes, Firefox and Safari, I'm talking about you.

The big question about the Penryn is not that its coming - we've all known that for a while - its what the clock speeds will be. Intel's been wanting to push desktop speeds to 4GHz for a long time. Will 2008 be the year they finally do it? And how about 3.2Ghz on a mobile?

InLikeALion
Jul 18, 2007, 03:36 PM
Hello, I've been a longtime lurker (pre-intel switch) and just decided to join.

With regards to Macs not reflecting Apple's price-breaks from intel, I have to hypothesis without much to back them up, but was wondering if they made sense to anyone else:

1) With the partnership between the two companies being so big, is there a chance that what Apple is originally priced for the chips already reflect the planned price breaks which later come to consumers and other oems?

2) I've thought that Apple might plan their product prices using an average of sorts - seems to me this might be a smart way of them to plan their price points: They sell their computers at a loss with regards to the processors when they first launch (what comes to mind is the incredible value the Mac Pro was shown to be over that Dell XPS system when it was announced), knowing that in a few months they will be gaining a huge margin on the then discounted prices.

This way at the beginning of the product cycle they have a lower profit margin (not getting as much money on the parts) but set low price points, and when other manufacturers lower their price points (and thus margin stays the same) Apple can keep their prices and make the same amount as their competitors, but it creates a stronger perceived product quality and branding.

There have been several times, including the quad 3Ghz Mac Pro's, when people were surprised to see such high end processors in new Apples because of the processor vendor pricing was so high. I feel like my #2 explains how they could get away with it.

What does everyone think?

skellener
Jul 18, 2007, 03:42 PM
You say gadgetry, I say trinkets, but the meaning is the same. The Mac iss almost the forgotten item. Yearly revisions for most items, just like when we had the PPC processors. No price decreases for us, just lower costs for Apple to allow them to develope the next Apple Gadget.

You said it! Let's see some Macs already!

spawn135
Jul 18, 2007, 03:44 PM
Core 3 would make the most sense given current naming scheme but who knows at this point...

Yeah you think so?
If so, well, brace yourself, everyone. We're about to see:
Core
Core 2
Core 3
Core 4
in the next few years.

It's just like Pentium I, II, III, IV...
How fun...

InLikeALion
Jul 18, 2007, 04:08 PM
Yeah you think so?
If so, well, brace yourself, everyone. We're about to see:
Core
Core 2
Core 3
Core 4
in the next few years.

It's just like Pentium I, II, III, IV...
How fun...

Even if it sounds sort of gimmick-y, from a marketing standpoint I think it makes sense. The consumer can keep track and know which is which. Think about AMD' naming scheme - as just an occasional browser of their wares, I have know idea where their processors fall within their respective lines.

I remember being a kid when my friend showed me a computer with Pentium III processor, I reacted incredulously: "THREE? They just came out with TWO!" The naming convention made it seem like a huge step forward.

Porchland
Jul 18, 2007, 04:12 PM
Ahhh 1st Quarter of 2008, I knew Penryn would land around my birthday=). I've never put a laptop to work as much as I have my current C2D MBP. I'll give this to my sister and enjoy the new benefits of the Santa Rosa and whatever is to come with Penryn.

Let the wait begin!

Macworld in January could be insane -- depending in part on what does and doesn't come out between now and October.

We could see at Macworld:
* MacBook Pro updates,
* MacBook updates,
* an ultralight MacBook (maybe Sept./Oct),
* a (probably slight) iPhone update,
* Apple TV update (incl. content purchase from the box),
* movie rentals, and
* TV subscription package.

I think we'll get in Sept./Oct.:
* iPod widescreen,
* iLife 08,
* shiny new iMac,
* nano and shuffle bumps (maybe).

guzhogi
Jul 18, 2007, 04:28 PM
Macworld in January could be insane -- depending in part on what does and doesn't come out between now and October.

We could see at Macworld:
* Apple TV update (incl. content purchase from the box),
* movie rentals, and
* TV subscription package.

I'd also like to see TiVo/DVR functionality and maybe have it merge w/ the Mac Mini. Add better graphics and an HDMI port, and that would be great! The Mac Mini & :apple:TV are great products and might be a great product if done together. Or a major flop. Not sure.

PCMacUser
Jul 18, 2007, 04:32 PM
How about Triad Core:apple:

Um, well considering the Triads are the Chinese equivalent of the Mafia... oh, maybe Triad Core:apple: would be accurate! ;)

mirffy
Jul 18, 2007, 04:35 PM
Macworld in January could be insane -- depending in part on what does and doesn't come out between now and October.

We could see at Macworld:
* MacBook Pro updates,
* MacBook updates,
* an ultralight MacBook (maybe Sept./Oct),
* a (probably slight) iPhone update,
* Apple TV update (incl. content purchase from the box),
* movie rentals, and
* TV subscription package.

I think we'll get in Sept./Oct.:
* iPod widescreen,
* iLife 08,
* shiny new iMac,
* nano and shuffle bumps (maybe).

I agree, but from a marketing standpoint they'd not want to release all of this at once. You want to constantly create awareness for your brand and keep the non-users thinking "Oh look, Apple's released another update! How ingenious and great of them to take care of the customers so regularly. Maybe I should switch too!" - so actually doing what Steve so eloquently "promised" at MW07 and hasn't happened really so far.

My thoughts are that this was the usual marketing babble, and Apple had to concentrate on the iPhone to release it as scheduled.

So at some point they better start releasing more Hardware (especially computers) or else they'll be undermining themselves and won't have a good bargaining point next Macworld.

Just my € .02

iSee
Jul 18, 2007, 05:14 PM
That's fine and dandy and all, but I'm still waiting for a Mac Pro revision, and have been all year. I signed up for a student developer package with the intention of getting a decent discount off of a Mac Pro... unfortunately, Apple is taking their sweet time and screwing everybody like me who wants a top-end system but will not stand for a radeon 1900.

PROTIP: Adding an expensive-as-hell option for an 8-core system is not a revision, Apple... update that system now! :mad:

/rant

I hate to say it, but what in the history of Apple's computers gave you the idea that they would ever put a strong 3D video card in a Mac?
It seems like Mac gaming is going through some kind of small renaissance right now, so your chances are better than ever, but I'd hardly bet money on it.

heisetax
Jul 18, 2007, 05:23 PM
I am still very happy with my 2.0 CD MBP w/ 2GB. It's very snappy for any task I throw at it.


(P.S. Don't geek rant on how SR and the Octogan can video encode faster blah blah blah)


I'm satisfied, for now. :)


This is the reason that some people can use a computer thaat is several generations old & others need one that is still a couple of generations in the future. Everybody does something different with their computer. Plus they expect something different. Some only think of speed, others just want it to work.

For what I do most of the time my 17" PowerBook does all I need. If I didn't have to run Windows as much as I do, I'd not need the better QWindows operation of my Intel Mac Pro.

Your computer does what YOU ask of it & YOU are happy with & how it does it. Then no one that is really thinking could bad mouth or flame you. At one time we became Mac Users because we thought different. That really means that if we think different, I would expect you to think different than me & the next person. That does not make any of us right or wrong, it just makes us different.

Still thinking different after 23 years with a Mac.

Bill the TaxMan

heisetax
Jul 18, 2007, 05:26 PM
that would make sense... ;)
but then, when was the last time you saw Apple lower prices on their computers? :confused:


They once did when they had no good advances but wanted the additional revenue of a new model. But Apple likes high profit margin items. AThis just goes with their operating model of charging what the Mac User will pay plus a little more, not what the market expects, wants or needs.

Bill the TaxMan

Mac.Jnr
Jul 18, 2007, 08:33 PM
Technically yes but i get the feeling what you're talking about is already happening now. If i can assume you're mixing up things up. We have 1333MHz FSB in Desktops (Mac Pro?) an 800MHz FSB in Notebooks (SR MBP).

DDR3 clockrates will range from 800-1600MHz compared to the 400-1066MHz of DDR2. Montevina supports the 800 clock and will increase the centrino "notebook" FSB to 1067MHz. Hoever there are no chips on the horizon to support anything above 800MHz for now.

Look here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino), here (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/10/11/intel_centrino_roadmap/) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM) for more info

I'm not talking about workstation and server Xeons as they are already 1333 FSB, i'm talking about desktop variants aka Conroe. There moving from 1066 FSB to 1333FSB right? Hmmmm DDR3 is too expensive at the moment.... So basically your telling me FSB (laptop) is 800mhz but when Penryn comes out it will be 1067FSB?